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Google Delays General Release of Honeycomb Source
iluvcapra writes "BusinessWeek reports that Google will not be releasing the source code for Android Honeycomb 'for the foreseeable future.' Android lead Andy Rubin is quoted, stating that if Google were to release the source for Honeycomb, Google would be unable to prevent it from being installed on mobile phones and 'creating a really bad user experience.'"
So Android 3.0 isn't exactly 'open source' for the foreseeable future?
Obviously GPL voilation, doom and gloom all around.
I'll ask what everyone has got to be thinking;
How is this not a GPL violation?
I can see two reasons for Google being leery of a source release:
1: The patent drama going on in the cellphone world, with almost everyone suing each other. It is like watching The Departed, except with lawyers.
2: iOS. Google is nervous about the June iPhone release, so is hedging bets to see which way to go after the iPhone 5 comes out.
mkdir android
cd android
repo init -u git://android.git.kernel.org/platform/manifest.git
repo sync
make
This is very much in violation of the spirit of Open Source, on which Google relies for its entire existence.
Actually, even holding back the development repository and just doing periodic code drops is a violation of community spirit at the very least, and probably harmful to the pace of ongoing development as well. It is clear that Google still does not "get" open source.
Have you got your LWN subscription yet?
Educate me, please. I'm not in the loop on this.
How much of Android is GPL-licensed? Does Google have a choice? I'm pretty sure they have no choice on the kernel itself and anything GNU-derived. What portions of Android are not subject to GPL disclosures?
Everybody gets what the majority deserves.
Wouldn't it also be installed on the tens of existing 2.2 tablets that already have a really bad user experience? (especially the non-cap-touch ones eww)
Over the past few weeks, Google has notified device makers of its change in plans with Honeycomb. Android executives have also been telling companies that Google will likely wait to make another open-source distribution of Android software until it completes the next version, called Ice Cream.
So unlike what the summary suggests, and more in line with the title, it really is a delay, not an indefinite cutoff.
They say: if Google were to release the source for Honeycomb, Google would be unable to prevent it from being installed on mobile phones and "and creating a really bad user experience."
Who are they trying to protect from this bad user experience? Do they think a phone manufacturer is going to ship a honeycomb based phone that gives a really bad user experience? Would any manufacturer really do that when it's easier to use a version of Android that's already designed to run on phones??
Or are they worried that some hobbyist is going to port Honeycomb to his phone and end up with a bad user experience? If that's the case, why does Google care if someone wants to screw up his own phone? If I want to put diesel in my car because I think it would be really cool to run a gasoline powered car on diesel, the car manufacturer won't stop me even though they are certain that it will give me a very poor user experience. Sure they may void my warranty and they don't make it easy since the gas tank filler tube won't let a diesel nozzle fit in my tank, but they don't ban diesel to prevent me from having a bad user experience.
Isn't Google just delaying the source release until the release after Honeycomb which will combine the tablet version with the handset version? What's the big deal? If people are paranoid about running Honeycomb without seeing the source then they can wait until the next release.
Linking to page 1 of the article would probably be nice. Better yet, the print version.
I guess they're smarting from some good devices getting 2.3 to work in some form, especially the N900. That, and said devices working a bit early in the 2.3 release.
How about moving to Meego if you want an open platform? Despite the stuff with Nokia/MS, it at least has some promise of being open to the end user.
Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
Goatse, for those of you who's retinas/brain/psyche haven't been burned so badly that it Goatse no longer affects you...
I'm just a satisfied user of the N900, who has used Maemo, Meego, and Android (Nitdroid).
It's that Android seems to be a bit overly friendly to carriers these days.
Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
http://twitter.com/Arubin/status/27808662429
What is the definition of "open" today, Google...?
Beware: In C++, your friends can see your privates!
Parts of HoneyComb (Linux Kernel) is GPL'ed and is already available. Other bits that are not, they're free to do what they please.
ELOI, ELOI, LAMA SABACHTHANI!?
How difficult would it be for Google to put in some code to check the hardware. If it's a tablet, let it install. If not, don't. And if someone wants to remove it from the code and install it anyways, let them. It's not like they can complain about the results.
"The only normal people are the ones you don't know very well."
What bothers me about this is that there are plenty of tablet devices out there that could benefit from the source code. Yes it would be absolutely stupid for people to install Gingerbread on a cell phone. It was not designed for this and the user interface would be utter crap. But there are devices like the Nook Color from Barnes and Noble that would greatly benefit from this code release. The Nook Color already has the developer preview version of Gingerbread running on it, but it has numerous problems. This is because there is no source code that can be adjusted for the device. I know of many other tablet devices out there that are running older versions of Android that would greatly benefit from the features in Gingerbread, but are not directly compatible with the developer preview image. I believe this has more to do with pressure from manufacturers than anything else. They would rather not see Gingerbread back ported to these devices and would rather have people go out and purchase new ones.
Well, I want give them some benefit of doubt for now that they still mean right with Android and that they will continue to keep it open enough (although the mentioned reason smells pretty fishy to me).
But I think this is just more strong evidence that Google was caught off-guard with the success of the iPad and rushed Honeycomb to an early release in order to have something to counter Apple.
In my mind, I think Google still was internally trying to limit Android to smaller smartphone-type devices and was still betting on ChromeOS to put on bigger-screen hardware like tablets. So I think Android was never meant to be put on tablets and Google did not want to expand Android to deal with the larger screen estate in a similar way as Apple did.
However, after seeing Apple having such success with the iPad and the carefully expanded iOS for the bigger-screen device, I think they scrambled and rushed Honeycomb together as fast as they could so they could expand Android in a somewhat similar fashion.
Right now, Honeycomb still seems to be buggy and somewhat unfinished, at least from what I gather from the Xoom reviews around the net. Other manufacturers have been slow to roll-out their Android tablets as well and the SDK was released just a few weeks before the Xoom launch, so tablet development for Android has some serious catching-up to do. Those are all good indications about the rushed state of Honeycomb to me
Now delaying the open-source release of Honeycomb in my mind indicates that the source is still a mess right now because it was so rushed and Google wants to delay it in order to stabilize everything and frankly, to remove a lot of embarrassing dirty hacks they put into their code just to get it to a sorta-shipping state.
In summary, I still think that this also shows once more that the simple "Android=Open" and "iOS=Closed" view is nowhere as black and white as some people might think. But right now, I also think this does not signal a strategic shift away from Android being open, but is more of an admission that Honeycomb was rushed to release and Google needs more time to fix its mess.
These throw-away goatse posting accounts are interesting since they definitely feature posts composed by a real person.
They take advantage of the fact so many /.ers think anyone who isn't an AC must be a legit poster.
"Google doesn't 'get' open source!"
"Google is being disrespectful of the community!"
"Google is just a big corporation looking out for its bottom line!"
"Google spends millions developing and marketing a mobile OS and releases it for free!"
No sig for you!!
The problem google has is they don't want crap devices running honeycomb and giving it a bad name. So why not release the code, but copyright the name "honeycomb" and "android". Sell those only to platforms meeting google specs. rename the actual code base "cheap dogpoo". So some maker of crap-tablets can't dillute the honeycomb brand appeal.
Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
'creating a really bad user experience.'
So far the android modding community (which is fucking awesome i might add) has done alot to improve that over stock.
After logging in slashdot still does not take you back to the page you were on. It's been that way for 20 years.
I think the rationale is the same as apple's How do you force people to use your blessed API rather than calling kernel routines directly? Windows sucked for ages because people would try to get more performance by calling undocumented handles. Remember all the "terminate and stay resident" apps that would intercept the keyboard hooks as a way to multi-task themselves in a non-multi-tasking environment? Not only did the added hooks conflict but every new release of windows broke half your apps and you got pissed an Bill gates not the app maker. So you want people to use your defined process as apple enforces and google is now backdooring by this move.
Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
Thus far, I assume they've been releasing builds when they're done. Here is a case where they've made an exception for good reason: the license doesn't require it and catering to the standard repertoire of issues would be prohibitive.
The license requires you to be given a copy of the source which is sold with the phone. Unless you're using a phone sold by Google that has Honeycomb, Google doesn't have to make the source available. Red Hat 'gets' open source, and it looks like Google is too, becoming mature enough to value its time & support. Samsung, LG, Motorola, HTC, Acer, etc. are the problems here when they sell Honeycomb-supported devices but don't hold up to their side of the licensing agreements.
It's almost comical seeing the conspiracy theories in some of these comments.
While on one hand they are totally stretching their good will with the open source community which they benefit from, the most obvious reason is detailed in the submitters comments. Occam's razor, etc etc etc.
As someone who spends much time hanging out on the XDA developer forums I can promise that the second that source gets released within hours every popular Android handset out there will have a ROM ready for flashing...There are rips from different model/brand/language/era/device type/etc available for deconstruction and flashing for nearly every Android device out there. Being the curious geek that I am I try nearly all of them (before going back to CM every time)...and most of them have just as wonky a user experience as can be expected.
Seeing as how Honeycomb is intended primarily (or even exclusively) for tablets I'd imagine it's UI elements (among other things) are absolutely not going to be the best implementation available for 3-4" screens.
While this is clearly not the best sign of good will towards the open source community, I'm sure the source will be out once something newer is out for the modders and developers to play with...Having the absolutely latest version (no matter how many points are in the version number) is like crack to some of these people. They forget all about Honeycomb with Ice Cream available...
Seems more like a whole lot of people at Google never considered this until it was too late...hopefully this lights a fire under their asses to get Ice Cream out quicker to unify the platform.
Verizon and Sprint already dictate "user experience". If something doesn't come OTA then 98% of Android users don't do it. For the 2% that might be willing to forgo the carriers locked, signed and "warranty voiding" threats to go dig some 3.0 rom out of the intertubes so they can stick it on an under powered phone - well, they know what their getting into. It is bad enough Google already filters the Android Market by this bs "user experience' clause.
Here is the "user experience" I want : I bought it, ITS MINE. Now get out of my life and let me do what I want.
Too bad it seems most of the country prefers to be spoon fed.
This is very much in violation of the spirit of Open Source, on which Google relies for its entire existence.
What a load of horse shit. Google's search algorithms are hardly open source. There's a lot of things at Google that aren't open.
Like almost every other company, they use open source where it's convenient. Anything else is kept under lock and key.
They may be more or less open than other companies, but pretending they're some kind of champion for the open source movement is complete crap. If their business model weren't built around search, they probably wouldn't be giving Android away for free.
The SDK-release of honeycomb comes out on the Nookcolor tablet a week before it's even formally demoed by Google. A few days later, it's ported to other tablets and phones. It runs great on the NC, but not as great as compiled-from-source code like Froyo/Gingerbread Still it's showing off the potential this has as a servicable tablet OS just as soon as source drops.
Motorola sees all this, says "SHIT!" A $250 competitor! Begs Google to delay source release for a while so that they have a market lead on other tablets. Google complies and comes up with some weak sauce bs excuse.
The logic of Google's rationale makes no sense-- by delaying release they may be denying phones the ability to run it (they say they haven't tried) but they certainly are creating an environment where tablet manufacturers and hackers continue to use essentially a phone OS on their devices.
It's been a month lead time with Xoom. Time to do the right thing, Google. If you're gonna be open source, be open source. If not, let us know.
They must be SO embarrassed!
Only the dead have seen the end of War. - Plato
See subject line - Sorry, but from what I've read thusfar? It seems GOOGLE "play's favorites", instead of dealing out their "latest/greatest" Linux variant ANDROID OS to everyone, equally & fairly... which it appears, GOOGLE is NOT doing!
(Still - I've lived long enough to know via observation that VERY LITTLE in this life is actually "fair", so... it may be wrong of me to expect that, even outta Google, per their motto!)
APK
P.S.=> So - Am I wrong, or did I "misinterpret" what I have been reading here, or was I misinformed by what I have read thusfar here & am NOW finally commenting on? If so, excuse me, &/or correct me... thanks in advance! apk
The reason is simple: Google doesn't want a tide of cheap Android 3.0 tablets coming from low-cost Chinese manufacturers. You can already buy WiFi-only Android 2.x tablets for less than $150, and many of them are pretty reasonable devices.
They want to give HTC and Motorola a little time to make some money. And, frankly, I don't blame them: Android tablets really need a lot of brand recognition, advertising and marketing in order to compete with the iPad 2. A tide of cheap, mediocre Chinese tablets would kill the platform before it catches on.
I don't get it ?
Folks @ Xda have already got it ported (albeit alpha) for one of the oldest android phones in town:-
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=11724175
"if Google were to release the source for Honeycomb, Google would be unable to prevent it from being installed on mobile phones and 'creating a really bad user experience.'"
So what? If it creates a really bad user experience, then users won't use it. Let users decide. Survival of the fittest.
Allowing it would allow experimentation. This does nothing but prevent innovation. Sad.
Modbombing the truth here doesn't make things any better.
Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
Since we still haven't seen hide nor hair of a compiled version of an update to Gingerbread, let alone Honeycomb.
You mean like how Apple makes decisions based on protecting the user experience? Funny how that worked out, isn't it. Actually predictable though, Google has had the photocopiers on for quite a while now, might as well copy one more thing.
In order to make their deadlines I feel they basically used some very sloppy and undocumented code. As a result they are now going through and polishing up the code, fixing bugs and improving it to work without all sorts of crazy hacks. Why do I feel this is the real reason? Well look at all the stability issues reported for Android on the Xoom. Many people claimed to experience multiple lockups per day with the initial 3.0 release of Honeycomb. Now 3.0.1 is out and while said to be better is still lacking a lot of polish and as some reviews put it "We feel like we are using a pre-production device". If I had to guess? I'd say by the time 3.1 comes out we will see the source code hit AOSP. While I do disagree with Google on their decision to delay the source code release, I am hoping it isn't a long delay.
I thought about what I said on this earlier in my reply here http://developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2053064&cid=35608456 I am now replying to!
Now, perhaps (JUST perhaps) GOOGLE's like any other company, & has to answer to stockholders &/or investors (of which these companies they "favor" may actually BE) - & therein lies the "WHY" of why this favoritism goes on maybe? Not sure... just a thought!
APK
P.S.=> Maybe it's just sort of tough to follow & practice "don't be evil", again, which IS GOOGLE's motto, when the "root of all evil", is coins/dead-presidents - they say talk's cheap, but NOT when money does the talking (as it always seems to)... apk