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AT&T Lowers Data Access To Just $500/GB

GMGruman writes "No doubt in a move to demonstrate how having fewer carriers (once it buys T-Mobile) will be good for US cellular customers, AT&T has announced lower data pricing for customers not on contract: On a per-gigabyte basis, GoPhone users will only pay $500 rather than the previous $5,000. Such a deal. The pricing is indeed lower, but even the best option for such users is five times more than regular customers pay. And given that pay-as-you-go pricing is what the poor and people living paycheck to paycheck use, the result is those who can afford the least still pay by far the most."

239 of 339 comments (clear)

  1. for pete's sake by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    there isn't an industry in as sore need of regulation

    most of all, i am quite tired of paying the same mandated data plan price for rural 2g

    1. Re:for pete's sake by kimvette · · Score: 1

      Sure there is: cable (internet, TV, telephone). They've been pulling similar crap for ages.

      --
      The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
    2. Re:for pete's sake by lennier1 · · Score: 1

      I'm also using a prepaid card, but on this side of the pond I'm paying 1â/GB. Minor difference.

    3. Re:for pete's sake by tmosley · · Score: 1

      Not really. Boost has unlimited talk text and internet for $50/month. Pay on time for 6 months, and they knock the bill down $5. Keep paying on time, and it will bottom out at $35/month.

      I just don't understand why anyone would use ATT's shitty service when there is one that is so very much better that is readily available.

    4. Re:for pete's sake by lennier1 · · Score: 1

      Seems like /. fucked up the formatting. It's 1EUR/GB and after 20 GB I don't pay any overage but the speed is reduced to GPRS until the end of the month.

    5. Re:for pete's sake by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I just don't understand why anyone would use ATT's shitty service when there is one that is so very much better that is readily available.

      Because in many areas, there isn't.

    6. Re:for pete's sake by haystor · · Score: 1

      Because they think they can buy an iPhone for $49, then they complain that they are locked into certain providers.

      --
      t
    7. Re:for pete's sake by thetartanavenger · · Score: 1

      Sure there is: cable (internet, TV, telephone). They've been pulling similar crap for ages.

      Has anyone else noticed that they are all actually the same industry. The cheap and easy transference of data...

      --
      Who need's speling and grammar?
    8. Re:for pete's sake by mellon · · Score: 1

      If you factor out the phone subsidy, that's more than AT&T charges. The problem is that with AT&T there's no option to factor out the subsidy.

    9. Re:for pete's sake by Kozar_The_Malignant · · Score: 1

      I just don't understand why anyone would use ATT's shitty service when there is one that is so very much better that is readily available.

      There is. I use it and like it a lot. We call it T-Mobile. Other than that, no GSM around here. Oh wait....

      --
      Some mornings it's hardly worth chewing through the restraints to get out of bed.
    10. Re:for pete's sake by halivar · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Owning a smart phone with a data plan isn't a human right. Don't want to pay that much for the data plan? Don't. Live without it. Billions do it every day.

      If, on the other hand, you choose, of your own volition, to pay the exorbitant fee for the data plan, you only serve to prove that the pricing was reasonable and correct.

    11. Re:for pete's sake by schnell · · Score: 3, Informative

      The rates you're getting sound very good - much better than typical US prepaid rates. However, the pricing from the submission is a typical Slashdot sensationalist headline (and hackjob Infoworld article) and is not really comparable. The actual pricing from TFA is:

      • $25 for 500MB
      • $15 for 100MB
      • $5 for 10MB

      So it's only $500/GB if you buy it in 10 MB increments ... kind of like how you'll pay about $150 for a bottle of bourbon if you buy it as shots vs. $25 buying the whole bottle at the liquor store.* But pointing that out evidently doesn't generate outrage and pageviews. Again, not nearly as good as 1 Euro per GB, but also not "$500 per GB."

      I know it's a lot to expect Slashdot to actually read things before posting, but I foolishly continue to hold out hope.

      * Happy hour and dive bars excluded. Add 50% if you are in New York City and 100% if you are in a trendy bar in New York City. Just give up if you are in Tokyo.

      --
      "95% of all Slashdot .sig quotes are incorrect or completely fabricated." -Benjamin Franklin
    12. Re:for pete's sake by E+IS+mC(Square) · · Score: 1

      From TFA:

      >>Of course, there are other plans: One costs $150 per gigabyte if you buy 100MB increments (15 times what regular customers pay), and the other costs "only" $50 per gigabyte if you buy 500MB increments (5 times over the regular customer cost). Such a deal!

      So it's pretty much covered in it.

      And of course, $50 per gigabyte is such an awesome deal, isn't it?? Just to put that in perspective, "pay-as-you-go iPad users pay $10 per gigabyte".

    13. Re:for pete's sake by swalve · · Score: 1

      Not to mention, some of that cost is getting access to the network, not just how much you use it. This is sort of a reverse volume discount: if you don't want to commit to a monthly contract, you don't get the discount.

    14. Re:for pete's sake by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Owning a smart phone with a data plan isn't a human right. Don't want to pay that much for the data plan? Don't. Live without it. Billions do it every day.

      Controlling a piece of a the public airways isn't a corporate right. Don't want to charge reasonable rates for data plans? Don't. Live without that government granted monopoly on public property. All the other corporations do it every day.

      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
    15. Re:for pete's sake by daenris · · Score: 1

      Because Boost can't roam off its (i.e. Sprint's) network. So if you happen to live (or travel to/through) any of the vast regions without Sprint network coverage, you're out of luck and get no signal. Anywhere in this map (http://www.boostmobile.com/coverage/#?map=cdma ) that isn't dark green gets no service on Boost (or Virgin Mobile for that matter). Both companies advertise it as "no roaming charges" but this is simply because they don't offer any roaming at all. You're either on Sprint's network, or your phone doesn't work.

    16. Re:for pete's sake by sousoux · · Score: 1

      There is a very simple solution to this. Split wholesale wireless provision from retail. One law. If you choose to build a network you may not sell it to end users only to resellers.Contract terms for retailers must be equal for the same commitments. Start of real competition. End of problem.

    17. Re:for pete's sake by ferrgle · · Score: 1

      Owning a smart phone with a data plan isn't a human right. Don't want to pay that much for the data plan? Don't. Live without it. Billions do it every day.

      If, on the other hand, you choose, of your own volition, to pay the exorbitant fee for the data plan, you only serve to prove that the pricing was reasonable and correct.

      But the data wants to be free doesn't it?

    18. Re:for pete's sake by Skuld-Chan · · Score: 1

      One thing to remember is that the scarce bandwidth (aka - airwaves) we do have belongs to the public - its the FCC's mandate to regulate this.

    19. Re:for pete's sake by RatherBeAnonymous · · Score: 1

      The trouble is, if you own a smart phone, no US carrier (besides T-Mobile) will let you use it without paying for the exorbitant data plan.

      I have a smart phone, but I don't need a data plan. So, I bought a Nexus One upfront and I joined it to my parents' T-Mobile account for 5 bucks per month, to get voice service only. If AT&T is allowed to go through with their buyout, they will charge me more per month for my voice service and make me pay for data. I expect to see my monthly fees quintuple. So, depending on how the numbers look and what is possible, I expect to be either ditching AT&T for a prepaid SIM card, or removing service from my smart phone and start carrying two phones.

    20. Re:for pete's sake by sortius_nod · · Score: 4, Informative

      Look at what's happened here in Australia with Telstra. Cities have great service (ADSL2+, Cable, FiOS), anything outside the major centres, well, good luck. You might be able to get dialup. I stress might, as the pair gains systems out there can play havoc with dialup, and Telstra (the guys who own the cables) refuse to upgrade anything outside a CBD of a capital city.

      Having worked for Telstra in the plant assignment/activations area (cable records & line programming) I've seen 100 pair cables with maybe 10 pairs usable on it. Telstra refused to replace them as it's not economically viable for them.

      This is why I'm all for the National Broadband Network that's being developed over here. Government monopoly on wholesale to ensure equal service delivery across all communities.

    21. Re:for pete's sake by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The real problem is that the infrastructure should not have been built and owned by corporations using government subsidies to get it done.
      Either the government builds the infrastructure and maintains it while leasing it out to private entities. Or. A private company can build their own competing network to compete on their own.
      If they do that with no government funds then they are free to run it the way they want. If they are leasing government shit then it should be the same price and terms for everyone.

      The railroads, phone lines, electrical distribution and highspeed internet should all have US government owned infrastructure.
      If someone thinks they can build better in small areas and compete with that then fine. If not that is fine as well.
      Everyone can have access to moderately priced government run Gas, Electricity, Phones, and Internet.
      Some people will have a choice to get something better.

    22. Re:for pete's sake by furball · · Score: 1

      What was the point of AT&T paying the US government licensing fees for those public airways again?

    23. Re:for pete's sake by petermgreen · · Score: 1

      I would add that the wholesale providers must not be allowed to discriminate based on the type of device the end user is using. Only based on the total number of devices and total usage of each type of service (voice, data, sms etc). Ideally they should also provide a way for retail providers who use multiple wholesale providers to easilly change their "preffered" wholesale provider.

      Ideally one would also get rid of the technical compatibility problems in the US phone market (though those may be going away anyway with the move to LTE).

      --
      note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
    24. Re:for pete's sake by BitZtream · · Score: 1

      For now.

      There was a recent story about a law being pushed that puts Cell phone data plans on the same level as voice calls. i.e. roaming is required by law, you have to play nicely with other providers if you want to stay in business since the spectrum is limited. This prevents a provider ... like say ... AT&T from buying out other providers and all the spectrum in a given area effectively cutting off even the potential for someone to start a wireless provider. So ... if the law passes, AT&T won't be able to prevent GSM customers from roaming by charging ridiculous fees for competition to roam on their network.

      Of course, the side problem to that is that we're not all using the same technology. AT&T and T-Mobile are GSM ... so AT&T is GSM, verizon is cdma, sprint is ?. Even with a legal requirement to not rip people off for data roaming, you still won't really be able to do it.

      --
      Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
    25. Re:for pete's sake by BitZtream · · Score: 1

      They get the right to use them and pays for the government enforcement and administrative processes to make sure no one else fucks up their usage of those airwaves. But thats not what happens. They don't buy SOME spectrum, they buy ALL the spectrum or buy the other owner of the spectrum out making them the owner (indirectly al la T-Mobile) of all the spectrum in a given area.

      --
      Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
    26. Re:for pete's sake by GameboyRMH · · Score: 2

      Well he didn't mention the Illuminati or Reptilians...

      --
      "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
    27. Re:for pete's sake by cypherwise · · Score: 1

      Do you worry the Australian government will use that leverage to control the Internet more than they already do? I remember there being stories about them blocking a lot of websites and wanting to censor various things.

    28. Re:for pete's sake by cypherwise · · Score: 1

      Shit, replied to the wrong comment...abort abort abort!

    29. Re:for pete's sake by yodleboy · · Score: 1

      wait a sec here. You may not know that ATT will not sell you a smartphone without a dataplan. Additionally, they required having the plan to maintain phone service. Not sure if this is still in effect, but it was as of last year.

    30. Re:for pete's sake by cypherwise · · Score: 2

      Do you worry the Australian government will use that leverage to control the Internet more than they already do? I remember there being stories about them blocking a lot of websites and wanting to censor various things. Perhaps, having good access with good crypto with Tor or other routing mechanisms will outweigh any pestering they try to do. Who would run/administer the actual network?

    31. Re:for pete's sake by feepness · · Score: 1

      Just because you are tired of paying for something doesn't mean it needs regulation.

    32. Re:for pete's sake by Fulcrum+of+Evil · · Score: 1

      $50/GB isn't awesome, but it isn't enough to get my blood boiling either. I'd like to see it similar to verizon's plans, which are around $10/GB for monthly plans.

      --
      "We returned the General to El Salvador, or maybe Guatemala, it's difficult to tell from 10,000 feet"
    33. Re:for pete's sake by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 1

      What was the point of AT&T paying the US government licensing fees for those public airways again?

      Contractually it may be the case, but morally it isn't.

      Just because the telecoms subverted the US government and were able to get all of the responsibilities that come with the stewardship of public spectrum waived in exchange for a simple payment doesn't make it right. It just means that the people we hired to handle the negotiations failed due to a conflict of interest. A conflict encouraged by the telecoms via the "revolving door" policy and quid pro quo in FCC appointments.

      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
    34. Re:for pete's sake by Mousit · · Score: 1

      I would actually like to live without it. I'm one of those rare, freakish people (at least, that seems to be how I'm regarded based on how the plans seem to work..) who would actually like to have a smartphone for local use (to use basically as a PDA as well as a normal phone) but don't need, want, nor care about always-on data access. What data I might use I can already achieve with available wifi networks (like at home), which 99.9% of the smartphones on the market now can utilize.

      The problem? I CAN'T choose of my own volition not to pay the exorbitant fee. The big boys (and many of the smaller carriers too) require a data plan if you have a smartphone. AT&T and Verizon will flat out force one on you if you don't sign up for one yourself, and will just begin charging you (how this is legal is beyond me). This applies to both post- and pre-pay customers alike. In fact AT&T will just outright block some smartphones from being on pre-pay at all, period. They require them as post-pay only, with the high-cost data plan attached.

      Some of us might actually like to live without a data plan; we just aren't allowed to have what we desire. Do I consider a smartphone a human right? No, of course not. However, I do think it ought to be MY choice to own one without using cellular data on it, if I want to use it that way. Unfortunately that is not a choice readily on offer in this closed "market".

    35. Re:for pete's sake by Mousit · · Score: 1

      wait a sec here. You may not know that ATT will not sell you a smartphone without a dataplan. Additionally, they required having the plan to maintain phone service. Not sure if this is still in effect, but it was as of last year.

      It is not only still in effect, it applies to bring-your-own phones as well, not just the ones they sell you. You can buy your own unlocked smartphone and if they detect it as a smartphone (they do this by IMEI database last I heard, so not all smartphones will get detected) on their network, they will force a data plan on you. They will literally just add the "service" to your account and begin billing you.

      Pre-pay customers will be forced into monthly data packages too, or in some cases certain smartphones are blocked from pre-pay entirely and can only be used post-pay.

    36. Re:for pete's sake by afidel · · Score: 2

      How the F is $25/500MB a good deal when I get unlimited text, data, and 300 minutes of voice from Virgin for that amount? That's the kind of seriously bad pricing that kept me from ever even considering a smartphone for my wife (previously a T-Mobile prepaid customer). The amazing thing about the Virgin pricing is that additional minutes are only $.10/minute so even if she does go over one month it's not like I'm getting raped unlike some of AT&T's plans where overage minutes are $.50/month.

      --
      There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
    37. Re:for pete's sake by Doctor_Jest · · Score: 2

      That'd never work... :) these government sanctioned and sponsored monopolies (cable/phone) can't be bothered with competition. They'd rather have their cake and eat it too.

      But what you say is true. Power lines and phone lines (and cable lines) were all laid with huge subsidies and eminent domain actions by the government. In effect, WE own most of the infrastructure (as taxpayers), and as such, should not be allowing a corporation that got a handout to build the infrastructure in the first place free reign to shove the telephone pole up our asses.

      --
      It's the Stay-Puft Marshmallow Man.
    38. Re:for pete's sake by dragonturtle69 · · Score: 1

      Owning a smart phone with a data plan isn't a human right. Don't want to pay that much for the data plan? Don't. Live without it. Billions do it every day.

      I agree that a owning a smartphone with a cellular data-plan is not a right. We all could buy used smartphones and go wireless only. But fair-play must be enforced.

      Is not the cost per Mb is the same for the Telco, whether on contract, month-to-month after contract, or prepaid? Charging prepaid plans a higher rate than contract or month-to-month is an unfair business practice.

      --
      "What luck for the rulers that men do not think." - Adolph Hitler
    39. Re:for pete's sake by The+End+Of+Days · · Score: 1

      It should be one more thing the government takes care of. The national debt is only 14 trillion now, so clearly it has room to grow. When it gets to a quadrillion, then we're talking real money.

    40. Re:for pete's sake by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 1

      Is not the cost per Mb is the same for the Telco, whether on contract, month-to-month after contract, or prepaid? Charging prepaid plans a higher rate than contract or month-to-month is an unfair business practice.

      Its a case of "one in hand is worth two in the bush" - a contract practically guarantees a revenue stream, while pay-as-you-go does not. So contractual minutes are essentially cheaper, but nothing like 10x cheaper, maybe 25% cheaper and that's being generous.

      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
    41. Re:for pete's sake by RareButSeriousSideEf · · Score: 1

      Government monopoly on wholesale to ensure equal service delivery across all communities.

      I would suggest government offering of privately-managed wholesale wiring towers and tunnels... no monopoly, and no government owned/controlled wires (at least not if you want any chance at privacy, open content, and long term economic efficiency). These would run to the community; communities and those that serve them would be at their discretion to close the gap to the neighborhoods and dwellings (perhaps on the condition that they facilitate no barriers to any provider who wishes to lease wiring space in those local segments).

      The offering could have three rates per unit of capacity rented: a base rate when you provide service equally across your entire serving area, a discount for bringing service to unserved and under-served areas, and a surcharge for the percentage of the population you do not offer service to within the larger of a) the region bounded by the outermost points of your service area, or b) the entirety of all counties in which you offer any service.

      By collectivizing the biggest barrier to entry -- the initial infrastructure buildout -- and not collectivizing the ownership of the lines, you could probably get the best mix of benefits that the two sectors could offer. The goal is to catalyze new competition in as many markets as possible; do that, and the bandwidth and price problems will get solved better than by any strategy involving monopolies or a select few 'licensed' providers (with ever-increasing bureaucratic and regulatory hurdles in front of new would-be entrants).

    42. Re:for pete's sake by twebb72 · · Score: 1

      Is not the cost per Mb is the same for the Telco, whether on contract, month-to-month after contract, or prepaid? Charging prepaid plans a higher rate than contract or month-to-month is an unfair business practice.

      Contracts are a liquid asset to any company. Contracts can be transferred or sold. They are an very large and accurate indicator of any company's value.

      You provide very little to a company on a pay-as-you-go plan, hence the added cost. It's a very prudent business practice.

    43. Re:for pete's sake by sousoux · · Score: 1

      I would add that the wholesale providers must not be allowed to discriminate based on the type of device the end user is using. Only based on the total number of devices and total usage of each type of service (voice, data, sms etc). Ideally they should also provide a way for retail providers who use multiple wholesale providers to easilly change their "preffered" wholesale provider.

      Ideally one would also get rid of the technical compatibility problems in the US phone market (though those may be going away anyway with the move to LTE).

      I'm not sure this is necessary. The wholesaler's only interest is to maximize the return on their network investment. Fill the pipe with the most valuable traffic. I don't really mind how they do that. I absolutely agree that retailers can use multiple wholesalers and that wholesalers should be barred from creating contract terms that tie a retailer to them.

      The technical compatibility problems will probably continue until tunable, software definable radios become a reality for handsets. That still seems to be a few years away.

    44. Re:for pete's sake by thsths · · Score: 1

      > Owning a smart phone with a data plan isn't a human right.

      Not yet, but certainly in Europe universal service is currently being redefined as containing fast and affordable internet access.

    45. Re:for pete's sake by Compaqt · · Score: 1

      I can't believe governments are stupid enough to "sell" spectrum. Lease it instead, and keep leaseholders on a leash.

      --
      I'm not a lawyer, but I play one on the Internet. Blog
    46. Re:for pete's sake by mjwx · · Score: 1

      Do you worry the Australian government will use that leverage to control the Internet

      No, NBNco is a corportised entity with it's own board and it's own execs under it's own mandate.

      more than they already do?

      I dont care if they control it 100 times more then they already do. 100 x 0 is still 0.

      I remember there being stories about them blocking a lot of websites and wanting to censor various things.

      Wanting != getting, certain individuals wanted filtering (the god bothering brigade) but the government as a whole shot that idea down (whoa, democracy at work, MP's vote against bad idea).

      It's dead Jim. Stop bringing it up.

      Perhaps, having good access with good crypto with Tor or other routing mechanisms will outweigh any pestering they try to do.

      Whilst I love good crypto, not needed here, thanks (see above).

      Who would run/administer the actual network?

      Referring to the TCP model (this is /. you should know this better then your own mothers). L1 and L2 are maintained by NBNco as a wholesale provider. L3 is maintained by various RSP's or Retail Service Providers. The RSP's are private entities, in fact they will be the same ISP's that service Australia today reselling ADSL services to the general public. The Australian Government owns none of these.

      NBNco builds the fibre, makes it available to any RSP who'll pay the asked price. RSP's (private entities) then sell services to me. Simple, we get the benefit of a single wholesaler's bulk savings but without the wholesaler having a stake in the retail market.

      Why this is important. Well at the moment, almost every bit of copper in the ground is owned by one company. Telstra so I need to pay Telstra to get ADSL no matter who I choose to subscribe to. Now Telstra also have an interest in selling me ADSL at the retail level, which means having control over the wholesale gives them an uncompetitive advantage, one that they are not afraid to use if it weren't for the ACCC (Australian Competition and Consumer Commission).

      So we are already at the mercy of an abusive monopoly, The NBN breaks that by making it a public (therefore accountable to the public) monopoly.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    47. Re:for pete's sake by mjwx · · Score: 1

      Look at what's happened here in Australia with Telstra. Cities have great service (ADSL2+, Cable, FiOS),

      Which Australia are you talking about?

      I live literally 10 minutes outside the Perth CBD. I can only get ADSL 2 provided I'm not on a RIM (Pair Gain system) and not more 4 KM from the exchange because that's when the copper gets bad enough that it can no longer carry a DSL signal.

      There is no cable here, no fibre either. I consider myself lucky that I've got an Optus DSLAM in my local exchange so I can get service from Internode without any hassle.

      This is why I'm all for the National Broadband Network that's being developed over here.

      I can agree 100% here.

      Roll on NBN.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    48. Re:for pete's sake by daenris · · Score: 1

      Actually it requires cell phone companies to offer roaming contracts to other cell phone companies. It does not require a cell phone company to offer roaming to customers. Given that Sprint itself already offers roaming on contract plans, I'm not sure that this law will do much to push them into offering roaming on their prepaid/pay-as-you-go plans. And Sprint is cdma (or iden for their walkie-talkie phones on the nextel network).

    49. Re:for pete's sake by JoeSchmoe007 · · Score: 1

      Take a look at http://www.pagepluscellular.com/ - they are prepaid Verizon reseller that I've been using for years. They allow BYOD; you can use most of the Verizon phones (except BB, IPhone and Verizon prepaid phones) - I use Droid Incredible. I am on their "Pay-Per-Minute" plans because it fits me the best - my usage is quite small. There is a forum about PagePlus here: http://www.howardforums.com/forumdisplay.php/364-Page-Plus-Cellular

    50. Re:for pete's sake by tmosley · · Score: 1

      Uhh, because A, it works, and I use in in a semi-rural area, and B, it is MUCH less expensive. What part of unlimited everything for $35-50 didn't you understand?

  2. And downloading "data" to smartphone... by John+Hasler · · Score: 2, Insightful

    ...is, of course, a necessity of life (in addition to cable television).

    --
    Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.
    1. Re:And downloading "data" to smartphone... by hedwards · · Score: 4, Insightful

      With proper regulation it could be a more efficient use of money than having a landline and internet. The problem is that there's no competition at all in the American telecommunication industry, and I'm really curious as to what exactly they're referring to when they claim it's competitive.

    2. Re:And downloading "data" to smartphone... by tripleevenfall · · Score: 1

      Because I NEED it.

    3. Re:And downloading "data" to smartphone... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Yes. Why would the poor need to communicate or have access to the sum of human knowledge.

    4. Re:And downloading "data" to smartphone... by Shakrai · · Score: 1

      Being poor doesn't negate the ability to have post-paid service. Having bad credit does. If you've demonstrated that you don't pay your bills why would they want to extend you the option of paying for your service after you use it?

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    5. Re:And downloading "data" to smartphone... by xMrFishx · · Score: 1

      Maybe, there are people who have no computer, no broadband, no landline and no TV but Do have mobiles and do know how to use the internet. It's possible that this item to them can do everything and more, be it a news paper in the pocket, a way of finding jobs, student study device etc. If you take away all the things "people have" prior to smart phones, you might find smartphones can fill an everything roll on their own to people who aren't power users. You'd be surprised at the need for information and knowledge the current 20s generation has with the internet. Oh and it's also a phone. Handy.

    6. Re:And downloading "data" to smartphone... by hairyfeet · · Score: 2

      Because even the shitty Tracphones are starting to have "smart" features now? Or that by the time you figure in all the fees the cell is usually the cheapest way to go to get a phone? Or that the cable and teleco without competition have taken assraping to new heights so that is often the ONLY way short of getting in line at a library that a poor person can have email?

      Take your pick, I know in my area the price for VoIP with Internet with the cable company is $103 with a 2 year contract with a shittastic 36Gb cap, the DSL option is $108 with a top speed of 756k and a 26Gb cap (not that you'd ever hit it on their shitpile o garbage) again with a 2 year contract, or they can get a smartphone from Fred's for $50 and buy minutes in $20 increments when they have it.

      Now which do YOU think the average poor person is more likely to have? $100+ or $50 or less (as they often have sales, I have seen the semi smartphones going for as low as $20 on sale) with no monthly fees or penalties if they have a bad month and can't afford to pay? I have to agree with another poster we need regs NOW for both the teleco and cableco industry, as the reason they can get away with this leeching is the simple fact they know they have a monopoly. WTF? Where is the Anti trust?

      I swear we need another Teddy "Trust Buster" Roosevelt right now, and it is one of the issues that could finally get us a third party pres (along with "Be Switzerland" as we are tired of spending billions propping up the third world) because this monopoly bullshit needs to DIAF.

      Speeds in my area haven't changed in ages, even though I'm practically across the street from one of the largest private colleges in the state, my mom has been waiting 32 YEARS now for the cable company to run the whole BLOCK AND A HALF yet neither the teleco nor the cableco will service her, hell is it any wonder the poor are switching to smartphones? In the rural areas or even two blocks out of town its the only damned non dialup Internet you can get!!!

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    7. Re:And downloading "data" to smartphone... by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 1

      Perhaps you can bookmark your post, then come back and answer that question yourself... after you've lost your job or got wiped out by a lengthy hospital stay or been bested in a lawsuit, and are thereafter unable to continue making your monthly payments on the long-term contracts that are often required if you'd like to pay for service after the fact?

      "Bad credit" does not always mean "irresponsible".

      (BTW, in case you've never noticed... Being poor makes it a just bit more challenging to establish credit than being well-off does.)

      --
      Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
    8. Re:And downloading "data" to smartphone... by Shakrai · · Score: 1

      Excuse me, but I didn't say it made you "irresponsible". All I said was that a company has valid reasons not to want to extend you post-pay service after you have demonstrated a pattern of not paying your bills on time. It's not their job to ask why you failed to pay them on time or their problem that you didn't. I went through bankruptcy a few years ago -- you don't see me bellyaching about Citi not wanting to do business with me because of this fact.

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    9. Re:And downloading "data" to smartphone... by amiga3D · · Score: 2

      God knows if the poor actually had access to such things they might not stay poor. (shudder)

    10. Re:And downloading "data" to smartphone... by sorak · · Score: 1

      If people are poor, why in God's name to they need a bizarrely useless fashion accessory like a smartphone.

      So we can only have a healthy marketplace if the products are mandatory and the people are poor?

    11. Re:And downloading "data" to smartphone... by operagost · · Score: 1

      Because they can't get it from broadband on landlines, which we already subsidize for the "poor".

      --

      Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
    12. Re:And downloading "data" to smartphone... by Coren22 · · Score: 1

      For my ex, that "reasonable" deposit was $2000. Yes, she had bad credit...

      --
      APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
    13. Re:And downloading "data" to smartphone... by narcc · · Score: 2

      Are there no prisons? And the union workhouses - are they still in operation?

      From what you said at first I was afraid that something had happened to stop them in their useful course.

    14. Re:And downloading "data" to smartphone... by dnahelicase · · Score: 1

      ...is, of course, a necessity of life (in addition to cable television).

      For some, who are required to have ready access to email 24/7 for their jobs, it does become a necessity of (employment) life.

    15. Re:And downloading "data" to smartphone... by Bing+Tsher+E · · Score: 1

      I'd hardly call 'online access' the sum of human knowledge.

      It's just a big hodge-podge collection of part of the data.

    16. Re:And downloading "data" to smartphone... by mr1911 · · Score: 1

      Have you ever observed those who, although not all may be poor all likely have better uses for their funds than smartphones and data plans, using their phones. The vast majority are not accessing sources of knowledge to better themselves.

      The ability to update one's Facebook status at any time during the day does not lead to financial well being.

      --
      This post comes with a double-your-money-back guarantee!
      Any offense taken to this post is at your sole discretion.
    17. Re:And downloading "data" to smartphone... by mini+me · · Score: 1

      I don't know about you, but my smartphone has allowed me to earn more income than I was able to before I owned it. Poor people should not be excluded from being able to make money. In fact, they need it more than anyone else.

    18. Re:And downloading "data" to smartphone... by guruevi · · Score: 1

      The ability to keep in contact with certain Mexican friends might however lead to some financial well being (temporarily).

      --
      Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
    19. Re:And downloading "data" to smartphone... by AvitarX · · Score: 1

      I hope that was for more than one phone.

      On T-mobile unlimited everything (with 2 year contract and phone subsidy) is $100/month.

      That deposit would cover over 80% of the entire 2 year contract, even with the more expensive carriers it's over 50% of the contract, it boggles my mind. Especially since it's a big cash-flow boost.

      --
      Wow, sent an e-mail as suggested when clicking on "use classic" banner, and got a fast response that addressed my msg
    20. Re:And downloading "data" to smartphone... by hairyfeet · · Score: 2

      Sincerely, from the bottom of my heart...bite me you corporate ass kisser. If you knew anything you'd know you ALREADY PAID to the tune of 200 billion and all you got for your money was a "LOL Goatse LOL!" pic from the ISPs who used the money to give themselves bonuses and trips to Vegas.

      So instead of sucking down the corporate bullshit maybe you better ask yourself why even shitty countries like Romania are currently royally kicking our ass on speed, service AND pricing, while our ISPs can't think of anything better to do with the massive profits they are generating than to institute caps and find ways to get BOTH the websites AND you to pay while they give themselves another bonus, hmmm? Like everything else in our corporatist society the shit is falling down around our ears while the CEOs take their mistresses to the Bahamas and the poor can't even have email. WAKE UP!

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    21. Re:And downloading "data" to smartphone... by Samantha+Wright · · Score: 1

      Oh, Ebenezer. So good of you to drop by.

      --
      Bio questions? Ask me to start a Q&A journal. Computer analogies available for most topics!
    22. Re:And downloading "data" to smartphone... by Coren22 · · Score: 1

      It was Verizon, we were trying to move her single phone over under her name after the divorce, and that was the price quoted. I told them to shove it and left it under my name.

      --
      APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
    23. Re:And downloading "data" to smartphone... by KingMotley · · Score: 1

      Instead of being a whiny little bitch, perhaps you should do some research. Most of your claims are bullshit. For example, "The average speed of Internet connections at world level is 1.9 Mbps, in Romania it is 7.0 Mbps and in the United States 5.0 Mbps.". So the United States is well above the average, and Romania, the country you championed, actually only has high speed connectivity to local places. International traffic is most commonly limited to 256-2048 kbit/s even though they may actually have a 100Mb/s 100Base-T "connection". The average US connection is many times better than that. Additionally, 33% of their "broadband" connections are cellular, which they include EDGE in there, ROFLMAO!

      WAKE UP and stop flinging your bullshit around. Feel free to tether your PC to your 2G cell phone and tell me how great the Romanian "broadband" is.

    24. Re:And downloading "data" to smartphone... by scdeimos · · Score: 1

      It's not just the American telecoms. In Australia you have Telstra charging "only" 25c/MB ($250/GB) on their Freedom Connect mobile plans, but if you're on one of their regular mobile plans they're gouging you for $2/MB ($2,000/GB).

    25. Re:And downloading "data" to smartphone... by AvitarX · · Score: 1

      That's like 10 months service + phone subsidy, it makes no sense.

      I can't see any case where phone subsidy + 1.5 months service + activation fee is not enough, and if they want to be dicks make it 3 months service (I assume Verizon peaks at $150/month, but maybe there is some $500/month plan I don't know about).

      --
      Wow, sent an e-mail as suggested when clicking on "use classic" banner, and got a fast response that addressed my msg
    26. Re:And downloading "data" to smartphone... by The+End+Of+Days · · Score: 1

      I don't know about you, but I don't feel like subsidizing your ability to gain income. Feel free to invest your own money like every other damned businessperson.

    27. Re:And downloading "data" to smartphone... by mini+me · · Score: 1

      I don't think this thread had anything to do with subsidies. I was pointing out that there are good reasons for poor people to spend their mony on technology.

      Ignoring that, the whole telecommunications system has been built on subsidies and other government programs. If we waited for business people to invest their money, we wouldn't be communicating at all right now.

    28. Re:And downloading "data" to smartphone... by Coren22 · · Score: 1

      It has to do with the amount of "premium" service fees you could rack up, as well as overage charges. I totally agree that it was way too much, but they were essentially saying they didn't want her as a customer.

      --
      APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
    29. Re:And downloading "data" to smartphone... by smithmc · · Score: 1

      ...is, of course, a necessity of life (in addition to cable television).

      For some, who are required to have ready access to email 24/7 for their jobs, it does become a necessity of (employment) life.

      And which of those people are paying for their own phones/plans, on a prepaid plan? I would imagine the employer is paying in these cases.

      --
      Downmodding is the refuge of the weak. Don't downmod, make a better argument!
  3. How silly by tripleevenfall · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "And given that pay-as-you-go pricing is what the poor and people living paycheck to paycheck use, the result is those who can afford the least still pay by far the most." What a silly comment. First, I doubt that people who are poor and use pay as you go generally have smartphones, and if they do, they are far less likely to be data users. Second, we are not at the point where smartphones with data are a can't-exist-without-it commodity. If you are this poor, should you be wasting money on any data plan? Certainly data prices from mobile providers are shockingly high, but this is a silly "think of the children" style fallacious appeal to emotion.

    1. Re:How silly by voss · · Score: 1

      Most people with pre-paid phones need voice and text messaging...not data plans.

    2. Re:How silly by tripleevenfall · · Score: 1

      I agree, but the article seems to be lamenting the poorest of the poor being overcharged for their iPhone plans.

    3. Re:How silly by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Perhaps the typical slashdot reader isn't the best qualified to make that kind of broad value judgment about low-income earners and their 'need' for data service. It also walks right past the issue of why the same service is 5 times the per-unit cost for different classes of credit scores or contract tolerance. I can understand twice or even thrice, to act as a buffer for payment uncertainty. But five times? And this is the result of a Grand Gesture, of bringing it down from fifty times? That kind of cost elasticity is staggering. I find it hard to believe sudden improvements in tech and process brought about such huge savings that they'd pass it on to the users. (Why not similar percentage cuts to post-paid users, then?) If so, they've been sitting on these kinds of earnings and would continue to do so were it not for outside forces. Clearly this is for the benefit of their merger consideration before the FCC and Congress, not the pre-paid users who didn't have the influence or ability to effect these cost changes on their own.

    4. Re:How silly by stephencrane · · Score: 1

      Oops, missed that I wasn't logged in.

    5. Re:How silly by Stenchwarrior · · Score: 3, Insightful

      "And given that pay-as-you-go pricing is what the poor and people living paycheck to paycheck use...

      And people with bad credit.

      --
      Loading...
    6. Re:How silly by grcumb · · Score: 2

      Most people with pre-paid phones need voice and text messaging...not data plans.

      Oh, so it's okay to rip off the ones who actually do need data, then? Or maybe poor peoples' bandwidth actually does cost orders of magnitude more than that of others?

      --
      Crumb's Corollary: Never bring a knife to a bun fight.
    7. Re:How silly by Antisyzygy · · Score: 1

      The cellphone carries are like the bottled water industry even with data plans. They charge 1 dollar for what costs them .001 dollars, even more if you don't have a subscription.

      --
      That brings me to an interesting point, / . is just "the ramblings of socially-inept, technology-literate news-mongers".
    8. Re:How silly by amiga3D · · Score: 1

      It's pretty silly for most people, poor or not, to pay such ridiculous prices for what little value that cellular data services provide. I can easily pay what they ask but it galls me to just let someone fuck me like that. I'd rather donate to the red cross or something than some bastard in an ivory tower who manipulates my crooked ass congressman into voting to let him rape my wallet. I've got internet at home and a laptop with wifi for hotspots. Until they get reasonable about prices they can kiss my ass. They can keep their shitty service and I'll keep my money.

    9. Re:How silly by Jawnn · · Score: 1

      "And given that pay-as-you-go pricing is what the poor and people living paycheck to paycheck use, the result is those who can afford the least still pay by far the most." What a silly comment. First, I doubt that people who are poor and use pay as you go generally have smartphones, and if they do, they are far less likely to be data users. Second, we are not at the point where smartphones with data are a can't-exist-without-it commodity. If you are this poor, should you be wasting money on any data plan? Certainly data prices from mobile providers are shockingly high, but this is a silly "think of the children" style fallacious appeal to emotion.

      Well..., that is one of the most unrealistic and out-of-touch utterances since Barbara Bush commented on how having to seek refuge in an old sports stadium in a distant city was a step up for the victims of Hurricane Katrina.
      You, sir, are insensitive and clueless idiot. Do youself a favor and educate yourself on the plight of the poor. You have a great deal to learn.

    10. Re:How silly by fermion · · Score: 1
      It really has nothing to do with poor/rich and smartphones. It has to do with those want a recurring known bill, and those who want to minimize costs. A person of means who does not use a phone a lot might very well decide to use a pay as you go plan. If you don't use a phone every day, it could be cheaper than the basic plan.

      People of limited means may indeed have a smart phone, but it is unlikely they have a smart phone from ATT. ATT, or Verizon for that matter, are simply not the value carriers. When looking at prepaid plans people complain about the relative hight cost, but do they actually look at how that cost will affect them? Honest on this plan I would not be worse off than I am now. As I use few minutes, and the average plan charges for a huge fee for minutes and not much more for data, I would break even. So though this reduction might seem trivial, it might open up the possibility for someone who wants to use a smartphone but does not have $70 a month to pay for the contract plan. If most data and calls are over WiFi, if should be easy to data over the air to 100 MB a month, or $50. To some that might seem extreme, but is might a significant cost savings to some.

      --
      "She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
    11. Re:How silly by vlm · · Score: 1

      "And given that pay-as-you-go pricing is what the poor and people living paycheck to paycheck use, the result is those who can afford the least still pay by far the most."
      What a silly comment.

      I agree, for different reasons. I'm not wealthy, but I'm doing ... pretty well. I didn't get to this level by signing high multi-year monthly payment contracts. Needless to say I have a pay as you go phone. I pay about $10 per month to virgin mobile on average. That's like 20 minutes of service, which is all I need, and its worth well over $10 to me so I'm very happy with it (shh, don't tell VM)

      I have almost no use for mobile data, but I might sign up for one month during a vacation or something (google maps, etc). But they have to pay their bills every month for the infrastructure, designed around roping people into multi-year contracts for stuff they mostly won't use. And unlike the guy whom signs up, and in his 14th month is pretty tired of it and does not use it at all, I'm going to absolutely blast the thing while I'm on vacation, I'll actually use it! So I'm willing to defend their high pricing.

      Their pricing assumes the subscriber will sign up for about one month, then never again, or at least not for a long time. They don't have the luxury of a contract tying them down for years of payment. Ask yourself how much the cableco would charge if you wanted them to install, watch TV for one hour, then disconnect immediately after that one show.

      --
      "Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
    12. Re:How silly by sorak · · Score: 1

      Most people with pre-paid phones need voice and text messaging...not data plans.

      Oh, so it's okay to rip off the ones who actually do need data, then? Or maybe poor peoples' bandwidth actually does cost orders of magnitude more than that of others?

      Or maybe it's ok to rip off people who make bad decisions....Freedom for the rich, but if you're poor, then it's "why do you need that?"

    13. Re:How silly by kaiser423 · · Score: 2

      A large number of poor people access the internet solely through smartphones. It is much, much cheaper to add data to a phone, than it is to get even the most basic of service.

      Dropping your landline and use the smartphone for internet is typically the cheapest deal out there, rather than having a line+dialup or line+cable/dsl internet.

      Some websites that cater to the poor have numbers of ~50% of the users accessing the data through a smartphone.

    14. Re:How silly by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      At this point in time, forgoing a traditional computer completely in favour of using a smartphone (not neccessarilly an iPhone, there are smartphones out there that are far cheaper for what they do) is actually be the frugal thing to do for people who don't have that much money to go around. That is, in countries where you can get pay-as-you-go mobile data at reasonable prices.

      A lot of these phones you can hook up to a television with analogue video cables to get a bigger non-squinty (though low-reslution) display, and you can use a bluetooth keyboard for more comfortable text entry to compose longer e-mails. It's not pretty, but it's definitely a viable alternative to getting a real computer, even for more extensive usage.

      The smartphone is no longer the luxury, the luxury is having a real computer in addition to the smartphone. Don't get me wrong, you wouldn't catch me dead without a real computer to do work on, at this point in time. Smartphones becoming the PC killer, especially with "docking stations" to hook up a keyboard display and maybe even a mouse is a very possible future scenario given recent trends of doing more in the cloud and on mobile. Phones with HDMI output are already coming to market, and if you really wanted to, I'm sure you could use a smartphone to drive an RDP terminal to your corporate VDI with a real keyboard, video and mouse setup *today* with not too much hackery.

    15. Re:How silly by gmhowell · · Score: 1

      How bad does your credit need to be? If I'm lucky, my score is in the high 500's, and I still qualified for an iPhone from AT&T.

      --
      Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon
    16. Re:How silly by gmhowell · · Score: 1

      They can go to the library. That's the cheapest method there is.

      --
      Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon
    17. Re:How silly by StormReaver · · Score: 1

      "And given that pay-as-you-go pricing is what the poor and people living paycheck to paycheck use...

      And people with bad credit.

      And people with basic math skills.

    18. Re:How silly by Mousit · · Score: 1

      "And given that pay-as-you-go pricing is what the poor and people living paycheck to paycheck use...

      And people with bad credit.

      And people who simply use a phone so rarely (but need the available-anywhere nature of cellular when they do need to make that phone call) that PAYG is as much as ten times cheaper than post-pay. I pay less than $100 per year for my PAYG service, which gets used mostly when I travel (hence being cellular comes in handy), but I like maintaining service so I have a fixed phone number.

    19. Re:How silly by QuantumRiff · · Score: 1

      Actually, in my area, there are more poor people with a $100 cell phone and a very cheap data plan than there are with a $600 laptop and $50/month internet connection. I think I prefer they spend their money on that. Good luck finding a decent job if you don't have internet..

      --

      What are we going to do tonight Brain?
    20. Re:How silly by The+End+Of+Days · · Score: 1

      So you never use your phone but you need lots of data? Get a Mifi.

    21. Re:How silly by Mousit · · Score: 1

      Actually I use no data, and have no data plan at all. I certainly wouldn't be on PAYG if I needed lots of data, I'd just be screwing myself over going that route.

    22. Re:How silly by sznupi · · Score: 1

      Prepaid is not only the rule throughout the world... for a lot of those people, the mobile is the only (& first) way to access the internet. With "smartphone" being a fluid and ultimately quite meaningless description.

      --
      One that hath name thou can not otter
    23. Re:How silly by smithmc · · Score: 1

      The cellphone carries are like the bottled water industry even with data plans. They charge 1 dollar for what costs them .001 dollars, even more if you don't have a subscription.

      Yeah, and people don't need bottled water either, just like most people don't need web and email on the go. You can fill up your own bottle of water from the tap, just like you can do your browsing and email correspondence from the home or office. If you want the extra convenience of bottled water, or data on your smartphone, then you pay for that convenience. Why does this surprise anyone?

      --
      Downmodding is the refuge of the weak. Don't downmod, make a better argument!
    24. Re:How silly by Antisyzygy · · Score: 1

      Because the rest of the world has reasonable charges for data plans, and the US doesn't. It definitively proves that the US cell carriers are screwing people over. Its an anti-competitive practice that IS an oligopoly or is bordering on one and the FTC and FCC are supposed to step in and penalize them for this and/or force them to stop. They don't because they are corrupt. Simple as that. Our government is one big steaming pile of corruption at the highest level. Bought and paid for by special interests and corporate big-wigs. There is nothing wrong with a free market, and everyone always rushes to the defense of corporations with this as an excuse, but THERE IS NO free market in telecomm and cell carriers in the US today. Republicans in office today are a bunch of big hypocrites. It is obvious when time and time again they do things that hurt the American consumer and worker. I have nothing nice to say about Democrats either.

      --
      That brings me to an interesting point, / . is just "the ramblings of socially-inept, technology-literate news-mongers".
    25. Re:How silly by eldepeche · · Score: 1

      I hope they never need to use the internet outside of the hours the library is open.

      What? Libraries are cutting back hours because of reduced funding? People work during the day? There is little-to-no overlap between their non-work hours and the library's open hours?

      Poor people should hew to my standard of austerity.

    26. Re:How silly by smithmc · · Score: 1

      Because the rest of the world has reasonable charges for data plans, and the US doesn't. It definitively proves that the US cell carriers are screwing people over. Its an anti-competitive practice that IS an oligopoly or is bordering on one and the FTC and FCC are supposed to step in and penalize them for this and/or force them to stop. They don't because they are corrupt. Simple as that. Our government is one big steaming pile of corruption at the highest level. Bought and paid for by special interests and corporate big-wigs. There is nothing wrong with a free market, and everyone always rushes to the defense of corporations with this as an excuse, but THERE IS NO free market in telecomm and cell carriers in the US today. Republicans in office today are a bunch of big hypocrites. It is obvious when time and time again they do things that hurt the American consumer and worker. I have nothing nice to say about Democrats either.

      If the market wasn't willing to pay, it wouldn't. Since it does pay, (and since we're not talking about food, water, or air) it must be willing.

      --
      Downmodding is the refuge of the weak. Don't downmod, make a better argument!
    27. Re:How silly by sorak · · Score: 1

      Well, you don't need a cell phone. I think the cell phone companies should raise your rates.

  4. Oh no! by bws111 · · Score: 1

    Gasp! The thought of all those poor people who can't afford to use their smart phones, tablets, and netbooks is almost too much to bear... Get a little perspective.

    1. Re:Oh no! by LWATCDR · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I think the point is that those people are getting soaked. If you want a smart phone you better not want to go prepaid. Of course there are other carriers that do not abuse their customers at that rate. The problem is that one of them is being bought by AT&T... Hey FCC and FTC did you see this?

      --
      See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
    2. Re:Oh no! by goathumper · · Score: 1
      I would answer with the same to you bws...get some perspective. I'm not poor by any account, though I'm certainly not swimming in ca$h. I'm not based in the US nor do I have the ability to get one of the "cheap"(er) US phone plans so pay-as-I-go is my only choice when I travel to the US (which is often). This is very important for the same reasons your smartphone and tablet are important to you: keeping in touch with the fast-moving tech environment I work in.

      I already got fleeced once by AT&T, and all because of a late "no credit left" message. I got the "0 data credit" left message at 8am, when i reality the actual point of running out of credit was 3am. So naturally I got fleeced for those 5 hours my phone was using data without a "bulk plan". Nevermind that I had ample credit in my pay-as-you-go account to renew the bulk plan had I been notified in a timely manner (or, at least, my data traffic stopped until a selection was made as to how I wanted to proceed).

      Pay-as-you-go isn't JUST for the "poor, wretched masses yearning to have phones". It also serves a large portion of traveling, non-american (yes, such people exist in the world and are actually more numerous than americans) businessfolk who simply find it an easier (or as in my case, the only) option due to frequency of travel.

      And yes - while we're not exactly destitute, few of us are happy with paying such abusive data rates when clearly such an overcharge is unwarranted.

      So I second your sentiment: get some perspective - but first, get a bigger picture so that perspective is a bit better informed.

    3. Re:Oh no! by internerdj · · Score: 1

      Don't you watch the news? Every time the FCC listens to Slashdot, Congress takes away a piece of their power...

    4. Re:Oh no! by eldepeche · · Score: 1

      You can buy an Android phone for $99 that can go with a prepaid plan: http://www.t-mobile.com/shop/phones/prepaid.aspx#T-Mobile-Comet-Black-Prepaid-Refurbished

      Home phone and internet service together usually run around $60 a month (or more), and you need a computer to use it. Looks pretty comparable to me, unless you think poor people shouldn't be able to get on the internet.

      It's not 1998, cell phones are not a luxury item anymore. The internet is not a playground for the rich, it is how people find out about the world and stay in touch with friends and family and find jobs and bargain-shop. It is pretty close to a necessity.

      If someone can afford rent and bills and food, communication with the outside world is the next thing on the list. You're explicitly saying that we shouldn't care about the prepaid market getting gouged for data because they shouldn't be spending their money on it anyway.

      And you misspelled "Champagne," asshole.

    5. Re:Oh no! by LWATCDR · · Score: 1

      I think this might explain his post. You see he isn't poor. http://www.theonion.com/articles/as-you-can-see-from-my-namebrand-clothing-i-am-not,10836/

      --
      See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
    6. Re:Oh no! by reg · · Score: 1

      I use prepaid on a smartphone because it is the best deal. I don't download movies on my phone, and it connects to wifi in it's most common locations. Hence I only use 15MB or so of data a month. Buying a 100MB ($20) package every now and then and a monthly 1MB ($5) package every month so the 100MB keeps rolling over, means I can go for about 6 months, at $20+6*$5=$50, or just under $10 per month. If I had a contract, that would be $30+ per month on top of my contract. Don't be fooled by Costco pricing - just because it is cheaper to buy in bulk doesn't mean it is cost effective. Although I'll definitely change to the new plan - my rate will be a around $6/month then.

    7. Re:Oh no! by StealthPanda · · Score: 1

      You are missing the point. For many poor people, a cellphone is the only access point they have for the Internet outside of public computers in public buildings, with often-restrictive operating hours. (Libraries, etc.)

      Not everyone can afford to have home computers and internet connections. Get a little perspective.

    8. Re:Oh no! by LWATCDR · · Score: 1

      I don't download movies but I do download podcasts and stream radio and use RDIO a lot. If you can live with the limitations then great but the price per is till way too hight. Wouldn't you like to pay $20 for a 2 gig package every year os so instead of $10 per month? I mean if it was avail about to you.

      --
      See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
    9. Re:Oh no! by LWATCDR · · Score: 1

      And charging anybody that much for data is a rip off. Yes I had some friends visiting from the UK and they wanted to buy a prepaid sim to put into their phone. Since AT&T is uses the bands as their carriers for 3G that is the carrier they wanted to use. The problem was that price was at this super high level.
      And as for the rest of your rant about do I know how mobile works the answer is yes within some limits I do. I can also read which does help. If you JUST want pay as you go data for ipad you can get it for $10 per GB.
      It is a RIP off. And yes it can be someone that is as you put it poor but it can also be someone just starting out. A divorced woman with little credit in her name. Or just someone that doesn't want a contract. It doesn't matter that if you think people need this or not. It is extremely expensive and since AT&T is regulated and is now trying to buy another major carrier which does require governmental approval such extreme pricing schemes should be looked at.

      --
      See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
    10. Re:Oh no! by LWATCDR · · Score: 1

      Cell phones are cheaper than land lines for most people and you do need a phone to get a job. The internet is also very useful for finding work, getting government services, and even education.

      While I am amazed at people that think that Cable TV is a necessity I do not think that a phone of some kind is a luxury. And frankly in this day and age some kind of internet access is vital. The nearest public library to my home is well over ten miles away and their hours are extremely limited so for a person that is working it just isn't an option for internet access.

      But what you still don't get is that this price is just outrageous it doesn't matter who is the target audience is the price it's self is the problem. It is really you that is just making this a social issue and saying how people should spend there money!

      --
      See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
    11. Re:Oh no! by eldepeche · · Score: 1

      All I said is that a "fancy" cell phone and a data plan for it aren't ungodly expensive anymore, and if someone with bad credit decides they want one, there is no reason they should pay an order of magnitude more than someone with better credit.

      I'm not the one saying everybody who wants a fucking cell phone is an entitled prick. I never judged anybody for which consumer products they want to buy. I think everyone can set their own priorities and make their own decisions, and the best we as a society can do is to prevent predatory business plans from taking root and fucking everybody over.

      I don't have to prove myself to some self-righteous cock on the internet, especially one who probably complains about young bucks driving Cadillacs and buying steaks with their welfare checks.

    12. Re:Oh no! by eldepeche · · Score: 1

      I believe that the decisions of a large company with competitors that can be counted on one hand should be subject to more scrutiny than those of a person with bad credit who wants to get on the internet, probably because I am a flaming liberal.

      Also, numbers assigned to prepaid accounts are not required to be portable to other carriers, so it's a pain in the ass to switch to a different carrier. But if you're poor, you probably deserve it because you spent money on a fancy cell phone instead of whatever this asshole thinks you should buy. That's capitalism.

  5. T-mobile web day pass by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    T-mobile web day pass is $1.50/23hr, unlimited access.

  6. canada overage costs by ustolemyname · · Score: 5, Informative

    Canada:
    TELUS: $50/gb
    Rogers: $30/gb

    1. Re:canada overage costs by feepness · · Score: 1

      On or off plan? On plan if you go over you just buy another block. $20/2gb I think.

    2. Re:canada overage costs by Splab · · Score: 1

      Denmark: less than $10 for 1GB plan and no overcharge, but you will be shaped to something akin to 1990 internet when you hit the 1GB cap.

    3. Re:canada overage costs by Overzeetop · · Score: 1

      If it weren't for the Bikini Team, I'd have to hate you.

      --
      Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
    4. Re:canada overage costs by 200_success · · Score: 1

      Yes, but can you even get data access on a prepaid plan? I don't think such service is even offered.

    5. Re:canada overage costs by Citizen+of+Earth · · Score: 3

      Rogers has a pay-as-you-go data plan where you pay $45/month for 500 MB plus 5 cents per KILObyte for overage, or **$50,000.00** per gigabyte. This has to be a world record!

    6. Re:canada overage costs by AliasMarlowe · · Score: 1

      Canada:
      TELUS: $50/gb
      Rogers: $30/gb

      That's outrageous. In Finland, we got an unlimited data plan for euro 3/month (at only 384kbps, but without caps etc.) as an add-on for my daughter's smartphone service. In principle, that could be up to 4 GB per day, but in practice she uses only a few GB per month.

      --
      Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. - Voltaire
    7. Re:canada overage costs by InakaBoyJoe · · Score: 1

      And the reason? Telus: 1900MHz WCDMA Rogers: 1900MHz WCDMA Bell: 1900MHz WCDMA In the space of two years, Canada has gone from way behind the US to way ahead, just because of inter-compatible, and thus competing, networks. We even get the iPhone unlocked up here with no need for stupid CDMA versions. Long live 3GSM!

    8. Re:canada overage costs by Matthew+M.+McClinch · · Score: 1

      Yes, but can you even get data access on a prepaid plan? I don't think such service is even offered.

      Sure you can. What was news to me, though, was that you could use AT&T prepaid on a smartphone.

    9. Re:canada overage costs by Maow · · Score: 1

      Canada:

      TELUS: $50/gb

      Rogers: $30/gb

      Let me add what I have, with Wind Mobile:

      $40 / month, unlimited internet (throttled after 5 gigs), PLUS unlimited talk & text Canada-wide, PLUS USA-wide talk & text (lower 48 only?), PLUS free global SMS.

      I've been on the plan for months now, with a "free" (WindTab) Huawei 8100 Android phone.

      Could not ask for a better deal.

      Not affiliated, just a happy customer.

    10. Re:canada overage costs by Chowderbags · · Score: 1

      1 GB gets you 7,669,584 text messages. At 25 cents per text message, that comes out to $1,533,916..

    11. Re:canada overage costs by Lost+Race · · Score: 1

      Last week when I took a trip to Canada, AT&T sent me a nice text message informing me that roaming data rates would be $15.36/megabyte, i.e. $15,360/gigabyte. I have their $30/month unlimited data plan in the USA.

      Fuck AT&T.

  7. So what? by Redbaran · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Let them charge as much as they want! All the better for companies like MetroPCS and the pay-as-you-go shops. Walmart has a $45 30day unlimited everything plan: http://www.walmart.com/ip/Straight-Talk-Unlimited-Text-Talk-and-Web-Access-30-Day-Service-Card-Email-Delivery/15443344 This isn't discrimination against "the poor and oppressed" like the summary implies, it's more like a stupid tax for someone who can't find a better deal.

    1. Re:so what? by MightyYar · · Score: 1

      VM is wholly owned by Sprint.

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    2. Re:So what? by metalmaster · · Score: 1

      That might go away soon or be replaced with something more expensive because Walmart is only reselling Tmobile

    3. Re:So what? by qpqp · · Score: 1

      Can you buy it as, i.e. a tourist, without a SSN?

    4. Re:so what? by Kozar_The_Malignant · · Score: 1

      Who cares what T does when we have VM?

      Virgin Mobile doesn't seem to exist within a 500 mile radius of where I live. Not much help.

      --
      Some mornings it's hardly worth chewing through the restraints to get out of bed.
    5. Re:So what? by hedwards · · Score: 1

      There's only 4 options at the moment, and if the AT&T acquisition of T-mobile goes through we'll only have 3 options. Sure there are others, but Boost is owned by Sprint, and any other parties wanting to be cell phone carriers would have to contract with one of those 4.

      Same ultimately goes for people that are wanting internet service at home, there's an extremely limited number of options. The markets don't function well when there aren't any choices to make.

    6. Re:so what? by whovian · · Score: 1

      Virgin Mobile has two Android phones which get you unlimited data for $25/month. It's far and away the cheapest smart phone data plan in the US.

      Yes, plan. And it will currently cost 8 months' worth of plan just to purchase the phone.

      --
      To-do List: Receive telemarketing call during a tornado warning. Check.
    7. Re:So what? by Baloo+Uriza · · Score: 1

      Because, as we know, you can get signals from those carriers in parts of the country that actually shop at WalMart, and AT&T isn't the only carrier in most of these places or anything. /sarcasm

      --
      Furries make the internet go.
    8. Re:So what? by guruevi · · Score: 1

      Depends on where you live really, AT&T/T-Mobile and Sprint seem to collude to exclusively cover certain areas whereas Verizon simply doesn't want to cover it.

      --
      Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
    9. Re:so what? by hawaiian717 · · Score: 2

      That's because you're actually buying the phone outright, rather than subsidizing the purchase cost with a more expensive long term contract. Virgin Mobile's LG Optimus V at $199 is the same as the starting point for the iPhone 4. VM's offerings are more mid-tier phones and not the high end models that get all the publicity, but they'd likely be good enough for most people.

      Let's compare the cost over a two year period, since that's the typical contract, with the Sprint version of the phone, the Optimus S, on the cheapest available plans:

      Virgin: $199.99 + $25/month = $799.99
      Sprint: $49.99 + $69.99/month = $1729.75

      You could even get Virgin's most expensive plan, $60/month for unlimited talk, text, and data, and still spend less ($1639.99) over two years.

      --
      End of Line.
    10. Re:So what? by contendr · · Score: 1

      Because, as we know, you can get signals from those carriers in parts of the country that actually shop at WalMart, and AT&T isn't the only carrier in most of these places or anything. /sarcasm

      Depending on what phone you get, those plans actually use the AT&T, T-Mobile and Verizon networks.

    11. Re:So what? by Mousit · · Score: 1

      As already pointed out in other comments Wal-Mart just resells T-Mobile network access.

      As for MetroPCS, it has already been reported that their "unlimited" internet is actually a subset of Internet access. They actively block streaming sites, VoIP, and other things. In their base plans they even block IM networks and the like. They use a tiered pricing system. Base for SMS, talk, some web and YouTube. Next tier, IMs and e-mails. Next tier, audio downloading/streaming, etc.

      The reality is the "deal" is no better than what the big boys are offering, and in some cases significantly worse.

  8. That's one way of putting it... by pushing-robot · · Score: 4, Interesting

    "those who can afford the least still pay by far the most."

    could perhaps more accurately be written:

    "those who typically use the least get charged the most per unit."

    or shortened to:

    "you save money if you buy in bulk."

    Of course, I'm not defending the outrageous rates—just the melodramatic language.

    --
    How can I believe you when you tell me what I don't want to hear?
    1. Re:That's one way of putting it... by TavisJohn · · Score: 1

      The original statement works for more than just purchasing minutes/date/items.

      Rent-A-Center caters to poor people, allowing them access to fancy furniture and TV's and such that they otherwise would not purchase because of cost... And yes you can rent to own, but if you do it that way you spend 2x or more than the retail price. A credit card would be cheaper...

      But the poor with bad credit can't get credit cards.
      The "system" is setup to keep the poor, poor. And it is currently moving to make the middle class poor.

      You call it "melodramatic language" I call it "reality".

    2. Re:That's one way of putting it... by Just+Some+Guy · · Score: 2

      Rent-A-Center caters to poor people, allowing them access to fancy furniture and TV's and such that they otherwise would not purchase because of cost... And yes you can rent to own, but if you do it that way you spend 2x or more than the retail price. A credit card would be cheaper...

      When my wife was pregnant, she couldn't sleep comfortably in bed and wanted a recliner to rest in. Since we only wanted it for a couple of months, I called Rent-A-Center to see about renting one until she had the baby. It was going to cost something like $300 and we'd have to give it back afterwards. I checked the local classified ads and bought two recliners from a couple who were redecorating their house and wanted different colors, for a total of $50. Furniture rental is a sucker's game. I honestly can't imagine a single situation in which I'd ever want to use it. Even if I were on a short-term contract in another city and needed to furnish an apartment, I'd buy used stuff and re-sell it or donate it to charity when I was done with it.

      But the poor with bad credit can't get credit cards.

      If the "poor" can afford to pay $50 a month toward a credit card bill for a new TV, they can afford to save $50 a month until they have enough to buy the new TV outright - and save a buttload of interest while they're at it. You are not required to use credit cards to buy things, even large, expensive things.

      --
      Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
    3. Re:That's one way of putting it... by operagost · · Score: 1

      It truly is reality. The reality is that the poor must understand that they have to stop acting like poor people and do what they can to move out of it: education, thrift, ingenuity. The reality for places like RaC is that they have chosen to address a market that is living outside of its means, and they are willing to take a great RISK on their investment to enter this market. If you find this exploitation, then the only fair way to address it is to simply outlaw RaC and the like-- and let the poor do without.

      --

      Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
    4. Re:That's one way of putting it... by Baloo+Uriza · · Score: 1

      Hell, for $300/mo, you can rent a fully furnished apartment, utilities, internet, TV and housekeeping paid, from one of those extended stay motels.

      --
      Furries make the internet go.
    5. Re:That's one way of putting it... by Myopic · · Score: 1

      Why did you conflate "afford the least" with "use the least"? I don't see the connection.

  9. Looking out for the consumer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    I, for one, applaud AT&T's 90% cut in price. Moar kool-aid please. This stuff is delicious!

  10. so what? by Lord+Ender · · Score: 1

    Virgin Mobile has two Android phones which get you unlimited data for $25/month. It's far and away the cheapest smart phone data plan in the US. Who cares what T does when we have VM?

    --
    A slashdotter who didn't build his own computer is like a Jedi who didn't build his own lightsaber.
  11. AT&T Seeking to Destroy the Internet by paulsnx2 · · Score: 2

    The Internet is supposed to be only for looking at web pages, no access to actual video or audio content. Want to play a multi-user game? Ha! Not if significant network traffic is required!

    250 GB limits on their AT&T U-verse connection (does not apply to your cable subscription). Some have reported upwards of 4000% errors on their data meter (when AT&T's numbers are compared to those collected by DD-WRT routers).

    2 GB limits on their data plans for smart phones.

    Obviously they already prevent any pre-paid access to the Internet.

    I never did hear if they ever disabled the fiber optic splitter they installed so all their traffic went directly to the NSA.

    Seriously, these guys are the biggest threats to the Internet yet.

  12. Re:"Needs" by aristotle-dude · · Score: 1

    Nobody who is poor or living paycheque to paycheque NEEDS mobile data. I would argue they don't need cell phones at all but that's neither here nor there.

    Tell me, where is the nearest payphone booth? I don't know what it is like where you live but here in Canada, the only payphones that seem to still exists are in airports and shopping malls. It is expected that almost anyone can have a talk and text cell phone. Mobile data is not something that the poor should consider even using.

    --
    Jesus was a compassionate social conservative who called individuals to sin no more.
  13. Oh Plah-Ease! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    And given that pay-as-you-go pricing is what the poor and people living paycheck to paycheck use, the result is those who can afford the least still pay by far the most."

    Anyone who agrees to AT&T's contract is a moron - or any cell phone provider in the US for that matter.

    Those contracts are soooo one sided that the mafia are looking into getting into the cell phone business but they wont because they're afraid of the other providers.

    I for one refuse to have a cell phone in my name. When the US cel carriers start being fair to the consumer, then and only then will I consider getting one.

    Pay as you go?!? Please! They suck even worse!

    US cell carriers are scum - there are no exceptions.

  14. A little misleading by Boycott+BMG · · Score: 2
    From the press release http://www.att.com/gen/press-room?pid=19623&cdvn=news&newsarticleid=31797&mapcode=consumer%7Cmobile-devices

    NEW: $25 FOR 500MB $5 for 10MB (previously $4.99 for 1MB) $15 for 100MB (previously $19.99)

    It is only $500/GB if someone were to sip 10MB at a time. Although the price for the best deal ($50/GB) is still way higher than those on contract.

    1. Re:A little misleading by shadowrat · · Score: 1

      yeah. but a title that says people pay more per unit when they commit to buying less at a time is hardly exciting. that applies to canned peas.

  15. This is not about the poor but tourists. by aristotle-dude · · Score: 1

    The problem with pay as you go data in the US and Canada is that tourists visiting have to pay through the nose whether they decide to roam or try to go "pay as you go" during their short trip.

    It would be much better if the AT&T and the HSPA carriers in Canada offers day passes for tourists or even some sort of week pass at a reasonable price with a "rental" sim like you can get in Japan.

    --
    Jesus was a compassionate social conservative who called individuals to sin no more.
  16. Not to worry.... by v(*_*)vvvv · · Score: 2

    T-Mobile is way cheaper... oh wait...

  17. Re:"Needs" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Not only that but you know what...
    Let the "poor" pay for it. Just like they pay higher interest rates and a higher percentage of bank fees. I pay my bills on time, never carry over a credit balance, never overdraft and never go over my credit limits. When congress forced "bank and credit reform" a few years ago, it actually hurt people like me because banks have to make their money somehow so they took away some benefits like cashback %, started charging monthly fees for things that were free in the past etc. Well, that's out of my pocket now. My good credit and good financial management was rewarded by the banks with perks at the expense of those that were careless and I liked it better that way.

  18. Willingness to pay by captaindomon · · Score: 1

    Remember that market prices are not set based on cost. They are set based on willingness to pay (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willingness_to_pay). All large corporations set their prices this way, based on economic and business theory.

    --
    Just because I can hook a shark from a boat, I do no offer to wrestle it in the water.
    1. Re:Willingness to pay by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Yes and no. Yes in that willingness to pay is the proximate criterion on which prices are set. No in that one of the major determinants of somebody's willingness to pay is what other providers of similar or identical commodities are charging. In reasonably competitive markets, price competition between approximately equivalent providers of a given good or service means that, in the end, willingness to pay is approximately equal to the lowest price, which is based on the cost structure of the outfit providing that price.

      In hilariously non-competitive markets, of course, willingness to pay and cost are more or less completely decoupled. The same is true for 'ahead of their time' products(where everbody's cost is much higher than anybody's willingness to pay, so the product stays in the lab). In a competitive market for a mature product, though, willingness to pay and cost are fairly closely related.

    2. Re:Willingness to pay by captaindomon · · Score: 1

      Touché. Seriously, though- thank you for an insightful post base on some real economic theory instead of inflammatory rhetoric. Mod parent up.

      --
      Just because I can hook a shark from a boat, I do no offer to wrestle it in the water.
  19. Non Sequitur Alert by xx_chris · · Score: 1

    Nope. It isn't a question of credit; it's a question of payment and price. If the unwashed poor have bad credit and they pay up front with their Go Phone account then they should pay the same rate as anyone else since ATT is incurring no risk by taking their money ahead of time. Or perhaps given the fact that they are prepaying and in fact extending credit to ATT maybe they should pay a little less. Or you could just rip off the poor. You could do that.

  20. Re:Wow! Just Wow! by DrXym · · Score: 1
    Three in the UK & Ireland has reasonable rates too. 7.5GB monthly costs €25 prepay, or you get 15GB for €20 under contract. Inclusive of VAT. Roaming is same price too to other 3 networks.

    I have to wonder what is wrong with the US. Not that Europe is perfect, the roaming rates for most data plans is criminal.

  21. AT&T "Lowers" Data Access To Just $500/GB by Hermanas · · Score: 1

    There, fixed that for you.

    In your defense, I think everyone read that word with a sarcastic tone of voice anyway. $500/GB is /lower/ ? Surely you must be joking.

  22. Poor Folks? by d6 · · Score: 1

    >>pay-as-you-go pricing is what the poor and people living paycheck to paycheck use

    Perhaps Canada is different as far as the efficiency of pay as you go pricing levels (I doubt it),
    but I've had a pay-as-you-go phone for years. I buy my phones up front. No contract & pay as I go.
    It suits my usage patterns much better than a plan.

    And yeah, the data rates are so wrong I can't wrap my head around it. No argument there.

  23. Re:"Needs" by vell0cet · · Score: 2

    This argument is looking at it the completely wrong way. Whether you need it or not, should you have to pay $500/Gb? Poor or not?

  24. Re:Another way to look at the cell industry... by Thexare+Blademoon · · Score: 1

    I'm really not sure why people still do business with these companies.

    Because almost every option is equally bad.

  25. I am not poor, but I choose prepaid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    My usage is infrequent and much cheaper with prepaid than with a subscription.

    Overseas, I could use prepaid data too: enabling flat-rate data for a period of a day, a week, or a month would deduct from my balance exactly the same cost as post-paid subscription amortized over that period. There was no cost penalty for using prepaid. I did this because my usual data use was to use my work and home Internet connections, but I would enable mobile data on the occasion where I could not, e.g. due to travel or an Internet outage.

    This is simply a restricted market in the US, where they are trying to force users to subscribe and pay for service they don't use. All of their pricing structures have the same bundling tricks which force you to pay for things you don't want, in order to get what you do. A competitive market would cause these commodities to be sold unbundled, and the big networks are using monopoly power to avoid that. They don't want to have to compete, as they have dreams of subscriber revenue dancing in their heads.

  26. Re:So ... by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 1

    Actually, just the opposite is true, in a way. Let's say you want to spend money on shoes. You could buy a $40 pair of Converses. I've done this plenty, they fall apart in a year of normal work (I walk up the stairs and up a 1/3 mile hill to my office job 5 days a week). Or you could spend $150 on a pair of military issue (Matterhorn, Bellville, etc; I have Bellville 770, $145 shipped from Botach) boots, waterproof (GoreTex with breathable canvas, not to mention the leather), insulated (200g/m^2 3M Thinsulate), made of quality leather that you can spend 5 bucks a year to maintain (black leather obviously means shoe shine, but rough leather treatments exist too). They'll last you 10 years maybe, maybe more, if you're walking in them a lot (homeless, bike/walk to work, etc), and keep your feet warm, protected, and dry.

    More often you see people spending money on shit like Uggs ($150) or Reeboks($100), funny enough these don't hold up to heavy-duty use. The soles fell off my Reeboks after a year! They're hollow, after they wear a little the glue starts giving out and you start getting holes and such and find out there's a large honeycomb structure inside. Uggs don't hold up to anything, at all, and they directly tell you this (not for "heavy walking" or rain or snow). Despite that, poor people buy 'em.

    My mom has gone through ... who knows how many $50-$80 juice machines. They break in a year under daily use, sometimes less. I suggested a $200 juice machine of better quality, but the Wal-Mart special is a favorite and shelling out so much money over and over seems like a deal to them. It's odd because they had an Oster Regency kitchen center for like 25 years before the motor wore down, which should have hammered the "Buy Better Shit" thing in.

    In some cases the ROI is immediate: socks at $8/8 pair vs (decent, not overpriced quality-fucked designer!) $20/3 pair, the $8 ones will wear down QUICK under normal use and even faster under strained use, getting holes and in general providing no cushion after just weeks; I still have 3 year old pairs of socks that are just now starting to thin out, just a bit, but they still provide cushion and they're long discolored. In other cases, the ROI is slow: appliances that last a year or two, versus decades-lived ones that cost two or three times as much.

    It all adds up. That cheap-ass washing machine you bought that needs constant repair after one year and replacement after five is you paying for it 3 times in 5 years; buy one that costs twice as much instead and lasts a decade. Stop buying crap you don't need, just for a little while; buy yourself a $100 chef's knife or a Wii or a luxury couch later, after you've saved up a little money from not having to replace/repair shit constantly. Yes it's hard to save up to get out of the consumerist society, but once you've made that first little victory it becomes that little bit easier. You did it once, do it again... and again... and again, until you get out of that damned hole and find some sunshine.

  27. Fundamental by BabyDuckHat · · Score: 2

    "...those who can afford the least still pay by far the most."

    That's true almost everywhere in Capitalism.

    1. Re:Fundamental by shadowrat · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Indeed. I'm glad i can afford to buy a year's supply of toilet paper at Sam's Club. If i had to buy each pack of 4 rolls individually, i'm certain the price per gigawipe would increase tenfold!

    2. Re:Fundamental by Americium · · Score: 1

      No it's true wherever there isn't Capitalism. Mass production and competition drove prices for food, energy, and almost every product down. I didn't see Walmart increasing prices to succeed.

      In uncompetitive markets, like this one, is where you see abuse. This is where regulation makes sense. Look what happened to long distance prices after AT&T was broken up.

    3. Re:Fundamental by Myopic · · Score: 1

      "Afford the least" doesn't mean "use the least".

      But yeah, I buy those gigantic toilet-paper cubes at Costco.

  28. Lowers? by angiasaa · · Score: 1

    Here in India, you pay $2.45 for a 1GB chunk. Larger chunks, cost even less. 5GB goes for just over $6!! Pay-as-you-go is all fine if one sticks to small data transfers, but in the long run, is certainly not worth it. Works out to many times the cost.

    I understand that fewer players in the market tends to resist cost reduction, but seriously, $500 per GB is ridiculous, right?
    What am I missing here?

    --
    Geekism is your _only_ God!
    1. Re:Lowers? by Bad_Feeling · · Score: 1

      Here in India, you pay $2.45 for a 1GB chunk. Larger chunks, cost even less. 5GB goes for just over $6!! Pay-as-you-go is all fine if one sticks to small data transfers, but in the long run, is certainly not worth it. Works out to many times the cost.

      I understand that fewer players in the market tends to resist cost reduction, but seriously, $500 per GB is ridiculous, right? What am I missing here?

      Thats all well and good but how much does the average Indian make in a day? $5?

      --
      Disclaimer: On the other hand, I am kind of a psycho...
    2. Re:Lowers? by angiasaa · · Score: 1

      Well, the average data-accessing Indian would earn between $17 and $52 a day. That's about about 80% - 85% of the mobile population in cities with 3G. And even so, those clocking data downloads in GB's is a much smaller number.

      All that said, I've been thinking.. Maybe it's a combination of the sheer numbers of users and competition between providers that allows Indian providers to keep the rates so low.. With 80,000 to 130,000 new registrations a day (for data connections), I suppose the numbers do kind of pile up.

      Damn, we're overpopulated. :|

      --
      Geekism is your _only_ God!
  29. Re:So ... by Naturalis+Philosopho · · Score: 1

    ~Stop talking sense man! People might hear you and learn that they can live without the latest gadgets, or even realize that they don't need the highest levels of all services available to them. If that happens their bank accounts might fill up, their anxiety might go down, and they won't have to use shopping/services as a security blanket in their unfulfilled lives. Stop trying to undo 100 years of marketing already!~

    And to whoever modded you off-topic, forget them. The hardest thing about railing against corporations which screw us: learning that it's not rape when we're helping them.

  30. Does it expire? by JSBiff · · Score: 1

    I suspect that $50/GB is really not that terrible, comparatively, with month-to-month plans, if it doesn't expire and you can actually use the entire GB you payed for.

    I say that, because I'm pretty sure that most folks on month-to-month plants don't really use as much bandwidth as they're paying for every month, and in the end, most of the contract folks are paying at least $50/GB too.

  31. Re:"Needs" by icebike · · Score: 1

    Nobody who is poor or living paycheque to paycheque NEEDS mobile data. I would argue they don't need cell phones at all but that's neither here nor there.

    Tell me, where is the nearest payphone booth? I don't know what it is like where you live but here in Canada, the only payphones that seem to still exists are in airports and shopping malls. It is expected that almost anyone can have a talk and text cell phone. Mobile data is not something that the poor should consider even using.

    The grand parent was talking about MOBILE DATA.
    You are talking about PHONE CALLS.

    See the difference?

    Text is not considered mobile data. Even el-cheapo feature phones have text. Email, web surfing, multimedia are mobile data.

    --
    Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
  32. Won't someone please think of the sensors??! by warmflatsprite · · Score: 1

    Now, I think these prices are absolutely still outrageous, but does this mean that they're also willing to drop machine-to-machine (web-connected sensors) rates by 90% as well? Christ I hope so...

    1. Re:Won't someone please think of the sensors??! by warmflatsprite · · Score: 1

      For those not in the know, mobile sensors/control devices typically only use a few MB of data transfer a month and they get charged out of their cable glands for it...

  33. 6-figure Virgin Mobile pay-as-you-go customer by xxxJonBoyxxx · · Score: 1

    I'm a 6-figure making Virgin Mobile pay-as-you-go (month to month fixed price) customer. I lay out $25/mo for an unlimited data plan and 300 voice minutes. I use the data plan like a rented mule - voice only occasionally.

    Only chumps pay more. Cell phone contracts are for the weak-of-mind who think that their modern-day beeper is some kind of status symbol.

    1. Re:6-figure Virgin Mobile pay-as-you-go customer by arelas · · Score: 1

      Cell phone contracts are for the weak-of-mind who think that their modern-day beeper is some kind of status symbol.

      Elite much?

  34. Mobile data access for the poor? by operagost · · Score: 1

    The poor need mobile data access? I assume that the rich elite in government will install this mandate, while the middle class pays for it.

    --

    Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
    1. Re:Mobile data access for the poor? by swb · · Score: 1

      When our city passed the plan to have wireless installed city-wide, I called my council member to complain about it.

      I asked her why the city needed to subsidize this plan (the gimmick was that the wifi provider would also provide private wifi for city purposes like cop cars, building inspectors, etc) when there was already cable or DSL available citywide.

      She told me that they wanted to make internet access available inexpensively for the poor. When I asked her how she was going to make the computers used to access the internet available to the poor, the line went silent.

    2. Re:Mobile data access for the poor? by operagost · · Score: 1

      Obama just talked about in his terrible speech about the poor buying housing. Why are the poor buying houses? You don't buy expensive liabilities when you're poor! If you buy anything expensive, you buy an investment property that will make money. It's stupid to take on risk for something that isn't even capable of improving your position. I don't want the poor homeless, but they shouldn't be homeowners! That's what renting is for.

      --

      Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
  35. No news here... by sudden.zero · · Score: 1

    AT&Terrible has always sucked! This just goes to demonstrait how much they suck! I am mad as he|_|_ that they are trying to buy t-mobile. I left AT&T for t-mobile because of their terrible pricing and customer service. T-Mobile has competive pricing and the highest customer service rating in the industry hands down. If they succeed in purchasing T-Mobile I will leave and I can assure them that a lot of the customers like me will. T-Mobile's unlimited plan that includes every phone (land lines and cellular), data and text is only $90 a month in my area which is a little more than Sprint but it includes landlines. I know that plan will all go away if AT&T gets their way and that should not be allowed. It clearly will stiffle competition!

  36. hey, its capitalism by Fujisawa+Sensei · · Score: 2

    Hey that's capitalism for you.

    You don't like what you're being charged go elsewhere because to regulate what companies can charge is Marxism.

    Or so I've been told by the libertarians, tea baggers, and republicans.

    --
    If someone is passing you on the right, you are an asshole for driving in the wrong lane.
    1. Re:hey, its capitalism by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 1

      You say that like there's something wrong with Marxism. What's the big deal? If there was something wrong with Marxism, then certainly it wouldn't be taught at universities or be so beloved of our government officials.

      --
      Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
    2. Re:hey, its capitalism by Fujisawa+Sensei · · Score: 1

      I haven't seen any socialist regemes like that murder millions. I've seen right wing fascists, calling themselves socialists murder millions.

      In fact one of your great leaders, Pat Buchanan used to march in a NAZI uniform.

      Your favorite villains spoke from the left, but their behavior was executed from the right. That's why your leaders like Pat Buchanan wore the uniform.

      --
      If someone is passing you on the right, you are an asshole for driving in the wrong lane.
    3. Re:hey, its capitalism by Fujisawa+Sensei · · Score: 1

      There is nothing wrong with price fixing in capitalism as long as it isn't done by the government.

      In a capitalistic society companies are free to sell their product at whatever price they can.

      --
      If someone is passing you on the right, you are an asshole for driving in the wrong lane.
    4. Re:hey, its capitalism by Fujisawa+Sensei · · Score: 1

      You haven't been listening the Libertarian Prophets: Beck and Palin have you?

      --
      If someone is passing you on the right, you are an asshole for driving in the wrong lane.
    5. Re:hey, its capitalism by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 1

      Uh, no. As a matter of fact, I live outside the United States. What's wrong with Marxism, though? I'm drawing a blank here.

      --
      Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
    6. Re:hey, its capitalism by sjames · · Score: 1

      Unfortunately, we have corporatism. If you don't like the price, go somewhere else until the behemoth buys them and socks it to you again using public commons the whole time.

  37. Re:So ... by Duradin · · Score: 1

    A modern example of the Sam Vimes "Boots" Theory of Economic Injustice and touching on the Ramkin extension, well done.

  38. You are misinterpreting the data plans by brainzach · · Score: 1

    Many are looking at the pricing plans from the wrong perspective. AT&T's goal isn't to charge per bandwidth. They want to split the users into groups based on their intended usage, then charge the perceived value to each group.

    $5 for 10 MB targets people with dumb phones who just need simple information like sport scores

    $15 for 100 MB is for smart phone users who use it mostly for email

    $25 for 500 MB is for smart phone users who casually surf the web

    If you want to use more data, AT&T prefers you to get on a post paid plan

    You can still argue that the prices are too high, but there is some reasoning to AT&T's pricing model.

  39. Re:So ... by vlm · · Score: 1

    Summarizes to "I'm not rich enough to shop at Walmart". Ever buy a set of drill bits from China, and have them literally unwind themselves? Been there, seen that. Suddenly, Enco and McMaster are the cheapest way to drill holes.

    --
    "Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
  40. Re:"Needs" by Homburg · · Score: 1

    Even el-cheapo feature phones have email, web surfing, and multimedia, though.

  41. You've made a slight typo by gweilo8888 · · Score: 1

    "Has anyone else noticed that they are all actually the same industry. The cheap and easy transference of data..."

    You've made an ever so slight typo. I think you were trying to say "expensive and intentionally obfuscated".

  42. And we're paying them Rural Broadband money why? by Baloo+Uriza · · Score: 1

    Keep in mind that they charge these rates even in areas where AT&T Wireless is the /only/ internet provider, such as most of rural Oklahoma and Kansas, and they receive federal money under the FCC's rural broadband program to provide it. Coincidentally, everyone who had an unlimited plan in those areas where AT&T is receiving rural broadband money got booted off and weren't told about this until receiving five-figure data bills.

    --
    Furries make the internet go.
  43. LOL by zmooc · · Score: 1

    LOL. I pay â5.99 / month for an unlimited data plan:P WTF is this shit.

    --
    0x or or snor perron?!
    1. Re:LOL by zmooc · · Score: 1

      LOL. I type euro symbol for great justice and get Ã:P WTF is this shit.

      --
      0x or or snor perron?!
    2. Re:LOL by zmooc · · Score: 1

      LOL. I type â and get Ãf:P WTF is this shit.

      --
      0x or or snor perron?!
    3. Re:LOL by zmooc · · Score: 1

      LOL. I type lot of irrelevant comments and do not get modded down. WTF is this shit.

      --
      0x or or snor perron?!
  44. Re:So ... by eldepeche · · Score: 1

    And if you can't afford to live near a library, fuck you!

    How about don't tell the poor what they need and don't need?

  45. Fascinating.. by Seth+Kriticos · · Score: 1

    I live in central Europe and my smart-phone has a pre-paid card with a 1GB data option enabled for 10 EUR (~14 USD) a month.

    That's by far enough for e-mail chat and the occasional map. And I can get rid of it anytime I want (just don't have to extend it for the next month).

    I'm always fascinated to hear the comparison from the new world.

  46. Full disclosure time by Baloo+Uriza · · Score: 1

    So, which telco do you work for?

    --
    Furries make the internet go.
  47. a Guy I used to work with by krazytekn0 · · Score: 1

    couldn't afford FOOD. Who gives a flying rats ass about smart phone rates for the poor.

    --
    Not all life is cyber. Extra Income
  48. Patronizing Summary by guyminuslife · · Score: 1

    The reason that many people use a prepaid cell phone plan is because they need/use it, and it's cheaper for them. The reason that many people prefer contract plans is that with the amount (and features) that they use, it's cheaper for them. You don't think that someone who uses a lot of data on their phone, no matter what their income level, might notice that they'd save money if they switched to a contract plan? Or are you suggesting that low-income people are just too stupid to read a bill, and can't help but be hoodwinked?

    The data rates for GoPhones may be exorbitantly high. You might argue that they're too high, and I won't disagree. But this stuff about income levels is all sorts of bullshit. What if AT&T decided to charge a million dollars per gigabyte? Would you lament the fate of those poor indigent souls forced to pay millions of dollars to watch YouTube videos on their phones? Or would you simply expect them to either get contracts, or go somewhere else?

    --
    I don't believe in time. It's a grand conspiracy designed to sell watches.
    1. Re:Patronizing Summary by petermgreen · · Score: 1

      Or are you suggesting that low-income people are just too stupid to read a bill, and can't help but be hoodwinked?

      Either that or they have bad credit ratings (Either through legitimate misfortune, lack of discipline, location of residense or some combination of the preceeding).

      Why do you think there is a market for payday loans with some people using them every month?

      --
      note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
  49. Re:"Needs" by AvitarX · · Score: 1

    That's OK, I'm sure the banks are winning big on the bankruptcy law change.

    The one that lowers the risk to banks on existing balances (in the end it should all even out with slightly lower interest rates, but the law change applied to existing balances, adjusting the terms of money already lent).

    --
    Wow, sent an e-mail as suggested when clicking on "use classic" banner, and got a fast response that addressed my msg
  50. Re: Ridiculousness of Usage Based Billing by AvitarX · · Score: 1

    I will say that it better not cause problems during off peak times.

    I generally expect/accept I get 50-75% of bandwidth peak, and 100-125% off peak. But if off peak was so congested that an extra 3gb/day killed it (30minutes to an hour) peak usage would be very very slow.

    Note, I don't think prices (50+/month for 16/4mbps) are fair, but I do find the ratio of advertised to available bandwidth in my area acceptable. I don't want to pay T rates ($300/month for 1.5/1.5mbps) just for the garentee. I get that pace from comcast even when torrenting during peak usage times.

    I do think it's unfair that internet+tv is only 1.4x therice of either alone, the damned cable is run already, it shouldn't cost any different to them if I have TV or not (perhaps some few dollars/month to send and process mybills)

    --
    Wow, sent an e-mail as suggested when clicking on "use classic" banner, and got a fast response that addressed my msg
  51. Re:So ... by Kohath · · Score: 1

    And if you can't afford to live near a library, fuck you!

    If you can't go to the library, go over to a friend's house.

    How about don't tell the poor what they need and don't need?

    Beggars can't be choosers.

  52. Holy cow. you americans are being fucked. by unity100 · · Score: 1

    literally that is. dont excuse the rough wordage - screwed is not enough for this :

    in turkey, up to 6 gb is $30, and per each 1 gb afterwards they charge $30 afterwards. (over the 6 gb quota)

    we have 4 mobile carriers. there are those among them who even provide cheaper. you people are really, really being fucked in the apex of fine capitalism. in the land of the free. ill remember this next time when a right wing republican or libertarian or something blabbers about 'free market' in america to me.

    oh boy. hahahaa.

  53. Re:"Needs" by scot4875 · · Score: 1

    Yeah, it was much better when the banks were making their money off of the people who could least afford it.

    Maybe instead you should be pissed off that banks have decided that their customers should be a large source of their income, rather than their investments.

    --Jeremy

    --
    Jesus was a liberal
  54. Barely Regulated pseduo-monopolies by nurb432 · · Score: 1

    Suck.

    --
    ---- Booth was a patriot ----
  55. Virgin Mobile by HenryKoren · · Score: 1

    Prepaid 3G on Sprint's network: $25 / month, 300 minutes, unlimited data.

  56. Re:Two year contracts are required? by yeshuawatso · · Score: 1

    Screw your credit up so bad that you can't afford a deposit on service? Well, who's fault is that? I'm only sympathetic to those just getting started who don't have credit histories.

    Obviously, you've never been a victim of identify fraud, and you also ignore the fact that the poor exploit their children's clean credit slate, creating a cycle that's hard to break. I've seen a numerous times a family rack up an electric bill or gas bill during the winter, couldn't afford to pay it, have the service disconnected and the bill applied to the parent's credit, only to re-open the account under the minor's credit. To make matters worse, getting fraudulent things off your credit takes a lot of time, energy, money, and effort that the poor simply can't afford to waste, so they keep the cycle going. Now data access, I'll admit, is a luxury; however, more and more transactions are occurring online because it's cheaper to do business via the internet than via a brick-and-mortar store, so if one is to progress in society, they're going to be at a disadvantage than those who don't have such high costs, when a lack of internet exists. It's not that it's impossible to NOT be poor, it's just VERY DIFFICULT to pull yourself out poverty, especially if it's where you started.

  57. Re:So ... by petermgreen · · Score: 1

    I know of the "sam vimes boot" theory but I must have missed the "ramkin extension" care to fill me on on what that was.

    --
    note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
  58. Re:"Needs" by ChoGGi · · Score: 1

    i'm in canada and i have a booth on the corner of my street
    i see them all over the place

  59. Re:Another way to look at the cell industry... by petermgreen · · Score: 1

    It's very difficult to measure quality of a product before purchase so we have to rely on reputation.

    Unfortunately this means the benifit to a company of reducting cost/quality is immediate and the cost is years down the line. This makes it very tempting for companies to reduce quality either to get through bad times or just plain to make their figures look good this quarter so the CEO gets his bonus. Further big retailers (who don't really care about their suppliers long term) are constantly trying to push suppliers to reduce prices.

    --
    note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
  60. Re: Ridiculousness of Usage Based Billing by petermgreen · · Score: 1

    With Usage Based Billing, I will always be charged the same amount.

    Most usage based plans do charge a single rate for simplicity but there is no reason all usage based plans have to be like that. Just as phone and electricity tarrifs can have an off peak rate there is no reason not to have them for internet plans too.

    I don't see how charging a data user based on data volume is any different from charging a phone user based on time spent on the phone. In both cases you have an imperfect but practical system for splitting the charges for a communication resource among the users of that resource in rough proportion to the ammount of that communication resource they are using.

    In the past we have always paid for internet via the size of the pipe, not how much data comes through.

    With consumer broadband what you are really paying for is the ability to use part of a very large pipe with mobile internet which pipe you are using part of is even changing continuously.

    For a while ISPs just charged all home users with the same speed of final connection to the same ammount, buisness users paid a bit more. This worked ok for a while sure some users used more of it than others but it was within what the ISPs had planned their networks to deal with and TCP dealt reasonably well with congestion. Then bittorrrent came along and became the bane of the ISPs life by simultaneously allowing users to maintain high data rates continuously AND using large numbers of connections at once which meant it didn't play very nice when congestion did happen. The ISPs had three choices

    1: spend a lot of money on building infrastructure to satisfy the small proportion of customers who are heavy torrenters
    2: kick the heavy torrenters off the network
    3: resort to dirty tricks to try and deprioritise, throttle or even outright block bittorrent
    4: move to a charging model that makes the heavy torrenters pay in proportion to their higher usage thereby either stopping them from being heavy torrenters, driving them off the ISP or bringing in more money to spend on infrastructure.

    --
    note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
  61. Re:So ... by Duradin · · Score: 1

    That Sybil Ramkin could live twice as comfortably on half the money that Vimes spent because she was rich.

  62. what's the plan called? by merunka · · Score: 1

    AT&T Ripoff As You Go? :)

  63. come on by georgesdev · · Score: 1

    the result is those who can afford the least still pay by far the most

    My kids have "low resources". Their data plan is like the one described in this post. So they've disabled data access.
    In the end they still pay much less than I do for my "high-end mobile plan"
    When I was a kid I could live without a computer, a mobile phone and the Internet.
    My kids have all of this, except data on the mobile. Should they cry about that?
    What I mean is those outrageous data plans can be understood as "no data plans", and not "high prices for the poor".

  64. Optus Australia - $0.15/kb by AlphaGremlin · · Score: 1

    Optus Australia had (until a few months ago) plans that were 15 cents per KB over the limit. I'm on one, with 500mb of data allowance... heaven help me if I go over that.

  65. Tubes & tunnels by Compaqt · · Score: 1

    Thanks for restating something I've been saying for a long time: If the Internet is a series of tubes, well, then, let it be a series of tubes already!

    Build the tubes, then let private carriers (AT&T, Joe Bob Internet, etc.) pull their wires through.

    No monopoly, and also no ugly wires on telephone poles that get homeowners' associations angry.

    --
    I'm not a lawyer, but I play one on the Internet. Blog
  66. Bullshit!!! by KingRatMass · · Score: 1

    Owning a smart phone with a data plan isn't a human right. Don't want to pay that much for the data plan? Don't. Live without it. Billions do it every day.

    BULLSHIT!!!! Try slapping an AT&T SIM into an unlocked smartphone and see what happens. I guarantee that within 10 minutes of connecting to a BTS, you WILL get a text saying that an unwanted data plan has been added to your account. It doesn't matter if the phone is configured for data or not, as soon as an IMEI shows up that matches a qualifying smartphone, they are going to slam you into a data plan.

    You then have to wait until the end of the billing cycle and contest this with customer service to have the unwarranted charges removed from your bill. Even if you request that data NEVER get added to your bill, eventually it will happen again!

  67. Re:So ... by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 1

    Craftsman is a good buy. It's re-branded from some other tool maker I don't know; someone told me once, but also assured me that said tool maker is well known for making good tools. With Craftsman, you buy a wrench and what you get is forged steel instead of stamped; this means the steel flexes better and springs back to its proper shape, rather than snapping off under extreme torque or deforming permanently. All their tools are of this type of quality; they're also of a price absolutely off the scale of Harbor Freight, but if you plan to use a Harbor Freight tool more than once then buy two.

  68. Cut the social justice crap! by DarkOx · · Score: 1

    iven that pay-as-you-go pricing is what the poor and people living paycheck to paycheck use, the result is those who can afford the least still pay by far the most.

    Nobody and I mean Nobody *needs* a wireless data plan. Its nice to have but you can certainly get by without one. Its not like it puts you at a real disadvantage in most cases either. That might change someday in the future but right now not having a web browser in your pocket does not yet deny a person many economic opportunities.

    A carrier is a business there is far more administrative overhead in dealing with month to month customers and they lose the benefit of certainty about continuing revenue. They absolutely should charge more for contract free plans.

    Finally if a person's financial situation is such that they can't work a cellular contract MRC into your budget than you should probably not be allocating any of their evidently limited means to wireless data, its was probably better when they were totally priced out.

    --
    Repeal the 17th Amendment TODAY! Also Please Read http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
  69. Re:So ... by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 1

    It is my belief that everybody has a little flex. We all get lazy, we all buy fast food, it's never just the dollar menu. Shoes happen to be something the homeless generally wear through and generally buy a lot: you see them with $80 Nikes because the sole on a $40 pair of Converse All-Stars is a Vibram sole that outlasts the shoe by about 10 years, while the shoe itself starts to wear out after a month of that kind of life style. The Nikes actually last several months, a year at best. If they suffered a little longer between buys, with shoes that are barely holding up but at least somewhat protect the feet (better than being barefoot), they could get a $150 pair of military boots and be done with it. Sure that's $80/year maybe, but that's a hell of a lot of money to these people.

    That's an extreme example. People who can actually (barely) make their rent are less extreme, and have other options; but it still applies. They can dig themselves out into a comfortable but poor lifestyle; it's unfortunately a daily struggle, in the same way you struggle to become fantastically wealthy. It's not so bad, though: when they actually reach goals like that, it doesn't really matter that it's the goal of "buying a washing machine that won't break in 2 years" or whatever. One burden is gone, and they have claimed victory by their own hand; it's the same feeling you get when you pay off your $30,000 car and decide never to go into car debt like that again.

    Wealth is really a factor of person. I have a $150 Shun Premier Santoku, an excellent knife with a VG-10 steel core exposed at the blade and stainless cladding along the body, hand-hammered and hand-forged. A $40 Victorinox is also an excellent knife, will hold its edge for months, will take a new edge easily, and generally will do the same job. If a poor person buys a good Victorinox chef's knife, learns to use it and keep it well maintained, and cooks much at home, they will have satisfaction of person (by the validation of cooking well, daily) without buying expensive $1000 23 piece knife sets. They will also save money preparing their own food.

    I bought a $450 bicycle and have been upgrading parts. It's a hybrid road bike (i.e. city bike) with no suspension, so I added a $150 seat suspension and am putting on a $150 leather seat. For the $1000 that went in, I can get to work in 60 minutes instead of 40, 8 miles away. It's cheaper on gas, cheaper than a car (I have one of those too), and more demanding of me personally than of my wallet. You can finance bicycles too, in fact the shop I went to would finance anything above $500 total purchase with 0% interest for 6 months. If a poor person works at like McDonalds or something, probably 3 miles away, he can bike there and lock his bike up (or even bring it inside). Or he can find a bus pass, or (most likely) buy a $2000 used car that he has no idea how to maintain and that breaks so often that he's dumping $500 in every 3-4 months to keep it running, plus insurance. If lifestyle permits, then buying an expensive bicycle is cheaper than buying a more expensive car, and will keep you healthy.

    And there is the Ramkin Extension again, isn't it? A $1000 bicycle, holy shit are you rich? Yet these poor fuckers will turn around and buy a $2000, $5000, etc used car that costs an assload to maintain because they have no idea how to shop for or maintain a car--unless their shit-pay job is being a mechanic, in which case they're likely doing extremely well buying $1000 cars that they throw another $1500 into and make run for 5-8 years, and feel quite satisfied and proud as they drive down the street (you've seen these people, they know what they did and it feels good 'cause they did it).

    Of note, my bike won't pay for itself; I ride it to work 2 days a week. If I get more endurance maybe I'll do it daily; it'll take roughly 160 total days of bike instead of car to make back the $1000 (completely in fuel costs) I spent on the bike, and I've currently logged 2. But then, I'll also be in much better shape, and have the ability to handle a bicycle well.

  70. Re:So ... by eldepeche · · Score: 1

    I'll make sure to say that when I see someone outside your door begging for an iPhone. It's like, you can make do with a Droid Incredible, dude!

  71. Re:So ... by eldepeche · · Score: 1

    Nobody asked you to pay for anything. I just asked you to stop being a dickhead about it, but you obviously didn't hear me.

  72. I hate to say it... by Schmyz · · Score: 1

    but it seems several other countries have far better cell/internet services then our own. Not to mention lower monthly service charges and better coverage. Maybe someone should actually try thinking of the enduser then the profit margin.