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Don't Expect an OpenOffice/LibreOffice Merger
Since Oracle has decided to give OpenOffice back to the community, a lot of people wondered if there would be some sort of re-unification with the ex-Oracle and the Document Foundation run by a lot of the original involved folks. The latter has released a statement saying, "the development of TDF community and LibreOffice is going forward as planned, and we are always willing to include new members and partners. We will provide as many information as we can with the progress of the situation. We are currently making every possible effort to offer a smooth transition to the project."
So after all that work of building up a brand with the horribly awkward name "OpenOffice.org", now they're going to throw it all away and try to get an even more awkward name accepted.
They must like a challenge.
Why would I expect a merger? It feels like they only forked a couple of months ago.
which is totally what she said
a dangerous move to merge back , Oracle cannot be trusted.
So after all that work of building up a brand with the horribly awkward name "OpenOffice.org"
There may have been some feet stomping and pleading, but to virtually every person I've ever spoken to it was just "OpenOffice".
"People who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who do."-Mark Twain
LibreOffice is a better name anyway. OpenOffice.org sounds kind of infomercial-ish, and very 90s.
Been using Libre Office since the first release (sorta buggy, but from second on, it's much more solid than Open Office ever was). Without the drag from the corporate offices, releases seem Really Fast (compared to the Open Office process) and easier to install, probably because of the shorter lag between underlying package releases and Office releases. I think the smaller group seems to have it together, and I sorta like it being fully independent (like Linux is). So in conclusion, let's just keep it the way it is....
-- Ancient (IBM 1620 and Atari 400) Programmer
They could call it ShitOffice for all I cared. It can save in docx format, not perfectly of course, but better than Office can save in Open Document format, and that means within the next month or two OpenOffice is coming off all our machines.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
As long as Oracle holds on to the Open Office trademark, I doubt that it will merge with LO. Personally, I don't think it matters any more. LO has the momentum, and community support. My guess? Most significant contributors to OOo will migrate to LO and TDF.
decide which project survives and which one will languish by the number of their respective downloads and volunteer support.
Running with Linux for over 20 years!
Oracle has three things of value for the community:
The Copyrights
Oracle still owns the copyrights of OpenOffice. Everybody will be able to use, modify, and distribute OpenOffice under the rights granted in the license, which never terminates. That license is LGPL2 for versions before 3.0, and LGPL3 for 3.0 beta and later, and the PDL for documentation. However, if the copyrights were transferred to a non-profit foundation, that foundation would be able to re-license OpenOffice as licenses develop. Laws change over time, and licenses must change to meet them. It would also be possible for the non-profit to enforce the larger part of the copyright rights. Currently, individual contributors or the project as their representative can enforce the copyright rights and license terms only on post-Oracle modifications. It would also be able to protect OpenOffice against pernicious changes in the commercial copyright holder. Products and companies get sold and change management. Remember that SCO was a "friendly" Linux company called Caldera before they went on their legal rampage. 501(c)3's, however, can devise covenants that keep their copyrights public property forever, and are legally limited to disburse their holdings only to other 501(c)3's on dissolution.
The Domain
OpenOffice.org is well known, and most instances of the software on user systems still reference it. Transferring this to a non-profit would be helpful.
Patents
Oracle might hold patents that read on OpenOffice, or could be used to defend it against other companies that bring patent suits. We can use Oracle's patents that are embedded in OpenOffice under the terms of the LGPL2 and LGPL3. But it would be nice to have some help in defending the program.
How Oracle Can Hurt
Oracle can hurt by trying to muscle the non-profit into accepting some sort of control from Oracle, be it a board position or something else. We have ample evidence that the project, since 1999, did poorly in gaining developers under a corporation's control. And if anything, Oracle makes other companies less comfortable than Sun would have. It's time for the project to be independent. The project should reject any offers that come with a demand for continuing control.
Thanks
Bruce
Bruce Perens.
Are you aware that there are languages other than English?
There's no -1 for "I don't get it."
Does anyone think this makes Oracle less trustworthy? Who knows when they might flip to a different mindset. Even with their impeccable reputation from before. Anyways this is not a surprise. The community wanted to break away from Oracle as soon as they acquired Sun. It just took a few weeks for Oracle to give them a reason.
Around the time of the split, I decided to give IBM Lotus Symphony a try. It's based on Open Office and so far I'm really happy with it. No real interest in going back to Open Office, and no need to try LibreOffice at this point.
Had they released the brand when asked it would be fine. This is Oracle again playing games, they cannot be trusted.
Funny choice, because frankly unless there only goal is to make it popular in France ShitOffice would probably be a better name than leber-office (which is how I've heard everyone pronounce it so far, followed by WTF or WTH? )
Seriously is there like a bylaw or something that says every damned FOSS app has to have a shitty/stupid/smartass name? Would you drink Fungus coffee? How about a Goatse choc bar? Maybe wash your hair with moneyshot shampoo? No? Then WTF!
Would have really been so God damned hard, would it have REALLY put you out, to simply name it something like Freedom Office? Or Sharing Office? Names matter folks and the pretentious bullshit names really don't help your cause. At least open office (which FYI NOBODY called it OO.o) gave it a nice friendly sounding name. its open, like open house. Simple, easy, smart.
So PLEASE for the love of all that is good and decent pick another damned name, or just bundle the damned thing with the Gimp and label under "shit nobody uses cause it just sounds nasty". I'd love to see FOSS guys name a soft drink, they'd probably be trying to sell ballsack cola or some shit, where the initials came out to something smug. Give me a break.
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
I just want a better search and replace, and the stupid web layout to work. Seems neither project can get these right.
Also, Oracle has not released the brand yet. They have merely announced a move in that direction, without giving details.
If Oracle actually donates the OpenOffice trademark to the Document Foundation, it would be substantial proof of their goodwill. But so far, they can still turn around and withhold any real concessions.
C - the footgun of programming languages
I thought LibreOffice was formed to create an office suite solution that was fully FOSS and not dependent on use of closed java solutions. If that's the case, wouldn't LibreOffice want to see OO go away? Why merge?
So here's your chance to fix them yourself.
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Early versions of Office couldn't hold a candle to Smartware's integrated office suite (which, as far as I'm concerned, defined the minimal feature set for something to be a useful office application). Somewhere in the middle, it did great. Office today has too many hidden menus and non-obvious relationships between menu options. It's hard to find anything.
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
Have you ever wondered if that name sounded that bad in other languages? You know, the stuff 90% of earth talks with...
Write boring code, not shiny code!
Wait, you're saying that they are evil monsters except for Windows, Office, and Xbox. That's 3/4 of their major products.
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It is OpenOffice.org
Shouldn't that be Gnu/OpenOffice.org?
Who would win this election: Andrew Weiner vs Andrew Weiner's weiner.
Why does the name have to reflect the fact that it's free? Those types of names always sound pretentious, and "Freedom Office" is much worse than LibreOffice ever could be (which is impressive). I shouldn't have to feel like a hippy just because of my choice of office suite. (Then again, maybe some people want that.)
If you can't convince them, convict them.
They must like a challenge.
Remember, you're talking about the same general group of people that named a pixel editor "GIMP".
Challenge doesn't even begin to cover the concept.
Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
Too late: I've already started to recommend LibreOffice to people moving from Office 2003. It's free, it's doesn't have the learning curve of Office 2007/2010. And unless you're doing some complicated Excel sheets, LibreOffice works fine for spreadsheets.
No direction: If the community has moved to LibreOffice, who's left supporting and maintaining OpenOffice?
You mean the beans dont come from Peru? My mother should have told me! (I live in the UK, and pronounce both words the same: like the mother of Lee).
Sent from my ASR33 using ASCII
Thats a dumb argument, usually names are translated. I bet they don't call it "Microsoft Office" in Germany. Also the development team is English speaking for the most part. The name isn't even that bad, whats worse are Android and Ubuntu versions, and even somewhat Apple's cat themed versions. Snow Leopard > Leopard > Panther? What criteria did they use to reach that conclusion? Which one looked most likely to taste the best? LibreOffice is fine actually. It makes a hell of a lot more sense than Intrepid Ibex or Froyo. Granted those are version names, but still. LibreOffice is not at all the worst offender in FOSS naming.
If I can just reach out with my words and touch a butthole, just one, it will all be worth it.
How do you define "Third World" exactly?
Rudolf Hess edited Mein Kampf. He was the very first grammar nazi.
GIMP - an excellent graphics editor. ;-)
These people do not care or understand FOSS at all. Just removed my last OpenOffice installation today.
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
Then why not sharing office? "Its Sharing office, share with your friends share with your neighbors, its okay by us!" Or Giving Office?" We give our Office software to you, please Give it to your friends and family. It always feels good to give!"
Hell pick Anything short, catchy, easy for all to pronounce and understand, and memorable. It seems like FOSS goes out of their way to be real smug douchebags when it comes to names, and frankly its uncalled for number one, and doesn't help sell your product number two. You DO want to have people use this, yes? you DO want it to be popular so that open formats can replace .doc yes?
So help your damned cause by stop being smug assholes! Names matter, which is why you are not drinking fartbreath cola and having a flaming gasbag burrito for lunch. or how about just "Free Office Suite"? Hell anything would be better than leber office. They should have to show that name to 100 random individuals in a dozen countries and see how many both pronounce it correctly AND knows WTF it means. If you don't score AT LEAST 70% then the name sucks and needs to go. Is it really so much to ask that the common man understand what your product is?
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
I still think copyright assignment makes sense for this project for a whole host of reasons.
At the same time I think the acquisition shows the beginning of why people were quite right to be hesitant about assigning copyright on their contributions to Sun. People with the Document Foundation hold up the increased number of contributions they've gotten without requiring copyright assignment as a reason not to have it. Of course, to a large extent it's been moot since they don't hold the copyright to most of the project. But I think that to the extent copyright assignment has been a factor, almost all of those put off by a Sun/Oracle copyright agreement would have been ok with assigning copyright to a well-governed nonprofit.
I know it's a rather long shot, but I still think the only unambiguously positive outcome for all this is that Oracle hands copyrights and trademarks over to the Document Foundation or a newly-chartered organization quite similar to it, they become the copyright holder, they reintroduce copyright assignment, and their charter provides a strong enough guarantee about openness and licenses that people feel secure in contributing under those terms.
Both suck. Do not want.
Thank you for taking the time to inform us of your indifference. Would you care to make a list of other subjects you are not interested in? Maybe provide an XML feed, so I can have it as a widget on my phone?
Let me make a few suggestions to get the ball rolling:
The fall of the roman empire was gay!
Aroma therapy sucks balls.
I don't give a fuck about Alexander Hamilton.
On second thought, I think I'll make my own feed.
At least in the USA, the -re suffix (as used in the Queen's English) is typically replaced with -er...when a typical American English speaker sees -re, it is most likely because the word is not English and intended to be pronounced as "ray", since they are aware that the ending is pronounced that way in foreign languages. Libre certainly is a "foreign word" to us. American English speakers do not look at -re and think that it sounds like "er", unless they know they are reading text that is intentionally written/spelled in the Queen's English. To use your litre example, we would not write it as "litre", it is "liter". However we are certainly aware that it is a non-USA spelling of the word and that it should be pronounced the same as if it were liter.
I don't think typical American English speakers have a problem actually pronouncing the -re ending as "ray", however it is a longer sound, we tend not to have to pronounce it as a suffix that often and it drags the timing of the word out. When we say "LibreOffice" it drags the tempo and rhythm of the speech down in the middle of the name in a very odd way with that combination of vowel sounds. In our normal speech there would be a stop or consonant/plosive sound between those vowel sounds but in this case is intended to be pronounced as one word. Because of that, it feels uncomfortable to pronounce. It's not so much the "Libre" in and of itself...it's the combination of Libre and Office together.
I expect you to die!
Yes, because people who write for a living have hundreds of extra hours to devote to first learning, then finding the location of then fixing a problem, then dealing with the bureaucracy to get the fix installed, reloading the app, and finally, having it do some work-aroundable thing they long ago worked around.
Non analysts/developers/programmers have a right to point out flaws and shortcomings in an application without being told to fix it themselves. It reminds me of the time I posted a bug report on auto-cap and some developer basically said I shouldn't be typing without capitalizing myself. WTF? Don't have a friggin' feature that doesn't work. And by extension, don't do calculations in spreadsheets because the user is perfectly capable of doing math and typing.
I vote for LibreOffice.org. Hah!
-- dnl
I think someone is trying to start a flamewar here, but most people in the "first world" countries have run into enough English words to understand OpenOffice. That some of them will understand LibreOffice too, doesn't really make up for all the people who don't.
In any case, there's words that are bad product names even if they're in English, like if they depend on whether you write "theater" or "theatre". The same should be obvious about "libre" and "liber..." as in liberal, liberty, liberation, libero and so on. But as usual with geeks, they'd rather argue that they're technically correct - and so get to make smug corrections - rather than pick a "nice sounding" name that some slick guy from marketing could have come up with. Like whoever decided to name a social network Diaspora, it sounds more like an STD than a social network.
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
Even most of the so-called first world does not speak English as a native language. There are 500 million inhabitants in the EU alone, where there are exactly three countries where English is an official language: the UK, Ireland and Malta.
Well, I guess the only people stomping with their feet are those who hold the trademark for the name OpenOffice ... or did they just give that trademark up after it became the de facto name for OpenOffice.org?
The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
That program really needs to be renamed. We should call it GimpPhotoShop. Open Source isn't crippled!
Fascism trolls keeping me up every night. When I starts a preachin', he HITS ME WITH HIS REICH!
The proprietary version of the software, StarOffice / Oracle Open Office, had a lot of other goodies like additional file filters, clip art, document templates and enterprise environment management features. If Oracle was willing to give that stuff to the OO.o foundation as well, then a merger would definitely be worthwhile.
Signatures are a waste of bandwi (buffering...)
Good, because Oracle's whole move was a ruthless high end power game. They bought Sun to be able to mess with Java, except I don't recall them having any direct stake in any of Google's direct lines. It's almost like it's a five-company DDOS lawsuit attack. (Helping both MS and Apple by trying to make Google "lose momentum" etc?)
My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
Like it was said on the Linux Action Show, screw your Oracle, we can't trust you!
To see a few of my Android apps goto: www.hartwired.com
Yes. Now, it would be interesting to figure out which ones they own. Some of them probably incorporate third-party proprietary software.
Bruce Perens.
Furniture nice post
Women Lingerie
Maybe they should hold a contest and have people submit names for the project. Just sayin' !
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>>> Are you aware that there are languages other than English? >>>
If you are referring to French and Spanish, LibreOffice is just incomprehensible. You would have to say:
bureau libre
libre officina
FOSS projects don't have marketing departments.
That's why they come up with ugly interfaces and all these crazy names.
People sneer at marketing in this community, but it does play a vital role, just like telephone sanitizers.
RogerWilco the Adventurous Janitor
Most people in the "First World" have no clue as to what Open in OpenOffice refers to. It is not FreeOffice or DoWhatYouWantWithItOffice or ThatCommiOffice, it is OpenOffice. Open to what? For whom? Open as opposed to what? All people know is that it is like MS Office with a built-in crack. Download, double-click, run.
Libre may not be readily understood to the fullest extent, but the word is recognised as the smarty-talk version of "free". So people will still not know exactly what freedoms they get but they realise it has something to do with freedom.
"Google" sounds like some retarded-but-cute monster from a children's TV series. "Windows" is a really lame name for an operating system. Really lame. "Ubuntu" is a word from a language only understood on one continent. Why anyone would take a company serious that is called "Apple" is beyond me. But: They all are successful. Names do not matter as much as products, especially in a market where absolutely stupid names abound.
Besides, if the word "diaspora" has such a negative association to you then that is a failure of our educational system and a sign of cultural poverty. But hey, that is just me. Then again, I understood "libre".
Rudolf Hess edited Mein Kampf. He was the very first grammar nazi.
Thats a dumb argument, usually names are translated. I bet they don't call it "Microsoft Office" in Germany. Also the development team is English speaking for the most part.
Nope. It's called Microsoft Office pretty much everywhere in the world. That is the trick when you want to establish a globally recognizable trademark. You find something that doesn't hurt your eyes in any of the world's most important languages.
A typical developer can imho live with just about any old product name, that is why there have been wacky code names since basically forever.
It's just that they don't change it to something useful when they release anymore.
Some communities are able to get over signing copyright assignation forms, although it definitely creates some friction. Even the FSF has problems getting copyright assignation for GNU Emacs on occasion, and you have to be pretty paranoid if you are worried about the FSF misusing Emacs source code.
Copyright assignation might involve more than mere friction - actually, the mind boggles at the mechanisms which might be involved. Copyright assignment , on the other hand, is a fairly routine legal procedure.
Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. - Voltaire
Doesn't beat the program named Pornview though (an image viewer).
All I could read was shit orifice. After that, I laughed so much I couldn't read the rest of the post
-- dnl
That's the most dumb post in slashdot for a long, long time. Do you really think slashdot is populated only by what you call first world? Beware of the BRICs. They will hit you on the head if you don't take care.
-- dnl
And there goes your sense of humour.
Write boring code, not shiny code!
On second thought, I think I'll make my own feed.
Just don't forget the blackjack and hookers.
"I'm not sure I like the fugnutish tone you used in your post!" -RogL (608926)-
No. When you see "centre" you pronounce it "center" and never /SEN-tray/.
Isn't that what I said in the "liter/litre" example?