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HTC Is Paying Microsoft $5 For Every Android Phone
jcarr writes "According to Citi analyst Walter Pritchard, HTC is paying Microsoft $5 for each Android phone it makes. This may be related to a report from last year: MS and HTC sign patent deal. So now we can't even write a free OS?"
Software patents need to be abolished internationally, it's that simple.
Disagree != mod troll.
Assuming this is correct, it's because HTC chose to sign the deal. That sounds to me as a spectator like a dumb business decision, but it was HTC's to make. I understand some companies paid $699 for a Linux license not long ago - does that mean we can't write a free desktop OS?
In related news, they are making more on Android sales than on Windows Phone 7.
Proud member of the Ferengi Socialist Party.
just the phones sold in the USA, Microsoft patents aren't valid anywhere else (95% of the globe)
As long as we have software patents. Look at the h264/Theora/WebM fiasco. Also the font hinting patents that are expiring that caused Linux to have difficulty with fonts, and then there was GIFs until 2004.
As future operating systems from Apple/Microsoft get ever more complex, Open sources operating systems will have to wait decades to get the good features. That's why Linux market share is so low due to so many patented goodies that are essential for modern computers.
Trouble is HTC are paying Microsoft for inventions Microsoft didn't make. HTC interface is not the crappy Microsoft one, and the underlying OS predates Microsofts entry into the handset market.
So what exactly is HTC paying Microsoft for?
Protection money? That's what it comes down to, MS has convinced them that Microsoft can make everyone's life so difficult that HTC can gain an advantage simply by paying the fee.
But the B&N challenge shows Microsoft has nothing in its patent portfolio but bluster and vague threats covered with NDAs. That's why MS isn't trying to go after Google directly, rather picking off smaller players.
This has been known for some time now. The only new thing is the estimate how much they make. HTC signed the deal when Apple sued them. I guess it is not stupid decision to pay instead of get sued by both Apple and MS at the same time. They chose to fight Apple and make peace with MS.
While I agree that software patents are bad for everyone that makes real products (including Apple and MS) I am disgusted by the fact that Google act as if patents somehow don't apply to them. It is one thing to fight for a change in the law and it is another thing to act as if the law does not apply to you.
Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act link
see also:
barratry n . creating legal business by stirring up disputes and quarrels, generally for the benefit of the lawyer who sees fees in the matter.
It's a protection racket, plain and simple. "Pay us or we'll break your legs and burn down your store"...well in this case it's "we will sue you into bankruptcy." Of course since lawyers are involved it's legal.
So their choices were basically:
1 - Stand up to their principles and spend millions in court fighting someone that could buy them outright. And risking injunctions that would prevent them from selling.
2 - Agree to a pretty minor 'tax', that they can pass along to the consumer and be done with it. Most consumers wont even know its there and wont care even if they did.
So, its a bad choice for them again why?
---- Booth was a patriot ----
The Android version of Linux is so popular that Phone manufacturers prefer to pay microsoft to not have to use windows phone.
Microsoft does have an interesting strategy btw: Microsoft does not seem to want to kill linux anymore because they can make
easier money just with licensing fees from companies with deep pockets.
It also says something that the phone makers would rather pay the $5-10 per phone than use windows phone 7.
Yeah, pretty much... you pay them some money so they're not so desperate as to rob you of your livelihood. If we give them enough resources, they should be able to afford to live comfortably and quietly innovate to themselves in Redmond without getting in anyone's way. At least that's how the theory goes :-P
Don't worry, a few years after Ballmer is gone Microsoft will be purchased by Cisco or Oracle. TFA is about typical actions often taken by companies that have nothing more to sell, or no longer have any creative spark.
Years ago Bill Gates said he wished Microsoft could have a near-death experience like Apple did because of its rejuvenating qualities. Well, It's going to get one but, unlike Apple, it won't pull out of the dive.
I'm not so sure about that, according to Google Voice my girlfriend is my daughter.
I'll add them to the lis:
http://en.swpat.org/wiki/Software_distributors_paying_Microsoft_patent_tax ...actually, HTC started paying MS back in April 2010:
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:dOa4j5g0dXYJ:www.microsoft.com/presspass/press/2010/apr10/04-27mshtcpr.mspx
Expert in software patents or patent law? Contribute to the ESP wiki!
It seems your nickname is very apropos. Infringing on a patent doesn't necessarily mean that you carbon-copied anything, but simply that you stumbled upon the same idea (sometimes because it's just TFOTTD -- The Fucking Obvious Thing To Do). Have a look at Amazon's one-click patent to know what I mean. And keep in mind that this was challenged, so it wasn't passed by the PTO just by accident.
Remember: patents, copyrights and trademarks are quite different beasts, although the Intellectual Property Gamblers want them to be the same as Real Property.
Microsoft, now relegated to the position of worlds most prestigious patent troll.
We should look into making a real microsoft tax that people pay to make sure we get the benefit of microsoft in our lives, everywhere. After all microsoft invented logic and the concept of on or off being a 1 or a 0 so go and pay microsoft 10cents for every light switch in your house because it's the right thing to do and because they *need* you money more than you do. Microsoft Everything for Everyone Forever
We don't need anything else because microsoft is like the standard on computers. Poor microsoft and those mean open source thieves who steal microsofts ideas by volunteering their time to writing freed software. If they had any morals they would pay microsoft to volunteer to write open source software because microsoft invented software and the idea of software so we should pay them.
Now get of their lawn, because only they can shit on it.
My ism, it's full of beliefs.
All you so called Microsoft loving developers take note
This is what you better expect from a common thug that Microsoft loves to be seen as. Submit to MS or be prepared to have your knees broke. After the Skype deal Microsoft proved their new business model, forget competing, just gobble up market share
Fight the power and call them for what they are: a has been corporation that lost control due to their contempt for their own users and developers
according to Google Voice my girlfriend is my daughter.
Try again without that Kansas dialect.
Or maybe Google detects you're in Alabama and makes an assumption.
In the end, the HTC phone buyers are paying Microsoft $5 for every HTC Android phone they bought.
If the US$ falls to sad ass levels, $5 might be worth less than 1 resistor or 1 blank cdrw disk.
In this case, the flat $5 fee might be bad today, but nothing in the future.
Liberty freedom are no1, not dicks in suits.
http://www.geekwire.com/2011/microsoft-cites-new-patents-vs-android
Back then they payed M$ per system for windows even if you go a system with OS/2 or BEOS or dos or NO os on it.
And they wonder why I hate MS... These assholes are abusing the faulty US patent system to effectively enable it worldwide. Why are they paying $5 for EVERY phone, even those that are not destined for US market.
HTC is NOT an American company. The phones are not manufactured in US. I don't live in US. Why does the US patent law apply to me when I buy an HTC Android phone?!?!?!?!?!
I used to think the same thing, but not any more. I can see several good reasons for the editors leaving story submissions intact, including leaving in the obvious typos and grammatical faux pas (and since this *is* a story about the legal problems of IP, this post is actually sort of on-topic)
1. The notice at the bottom of every page: "Trademarks property of their respective owners. Comments owned by the poster." Slashdot benefits from a "safe harbor" by not editing comments. The same is true for story submissions.
2. Editing it, even by one word, might change the meaning. "Woman and child" is a lot different than "Woman with child", for example.
When the US and the Russians were going at it head-to-head, one Russian leader said something, and his translator "cleaned it up." The Russian noticed they didn't react as expected ("We disagree" is not the same as "We will f*ck you and sh*t on your grave"), and ordered "Now, tell them EXACTLY what I said."
Words make a difference. Editing them, without getting the original posters' agreement that that is what they actually submitted, can cause problems.
3. If anything, not editing a submission with bad grammar is more a reflection on the submitter than on the editors. If you don't want to look like an ignorant /(bas|f*ck|re|slash)tard/, it's not that hard - after all, you HAVE to hit preview at least once before you can submit a story.
Let's call it what it is, Anti-Social Media.
If android infringes on Microsofts IP I can't help but wonder why WP7 sucks so hard. It seems that they are saying that Google took Microsofts idea and implemented it better.
There's always the iPhone. I wonder when they'll try on apple for size.
So - if we accept that editors shouldn't actually "edit" anything - why don't we just replace them with a shell script?
I currently own an HTC phone, and due to the bootloader being locked down I swore I'd never buy another. The recent announcement about future phones bootloaders being unlocked actually had me looking at the phones they'll have available in a few months. We're already paying roughly $10 a phone for all the media codec licenses; MP3, h.264, etc (none of which I actually use on my current phone), but paying Microsoft an extra $5 feels dirty.
I wonder how much of this sort of behaviour must happen before the tide starts turning against the patenting system.
It's unlikely that US lawmakers will stop supporting it, as it is an important tool for ensuring US income. But perhaps other parts of the world eventually decide it's no longer worth putting up with.
The US is an important part of the world, and always will be, but there are now several centres of the modern world (the post war era is long gone), and at some point other nations might decide that US trade threats (such as the patenting system) can fairly safely be ignored as there is plenty of good trade to be done amongst each other, especially if the US can no longer can pay its debts and plays by unfair rules.
I think this is probably one place Stallman would be saying "I told you so" with no great enthusiasm and one place where Adam Smith finds himself with an all mighty hard-on and smug self satisfied grin that will make your skin crawl now that Ole Shylock has his pound of flesh and lo, without a drop of blood being spilled.
life is all about searching and sorting
If you buy an iPhone, you're also giving Microsoft money. Every iPhone or iPad ships with actual implemented MS tech in them (Exchange support for a start).
For a site about things like basic rights, Slashdot users sure do like to censor "dissent".
3. If anything, not editing a submission with bad grammar is more a reflection on the submitter than on the editors. If you don't want to look like an ignorant /(bas|f*ck|re|slash)tard/, it's not that hard - after all, you HAVE to hit preview at least once before you can submit a story.
Not every submitter is a native speaker, you insensitive clod! I should know: the only training I get is writing on the web & irc.
Dilbert RSS feed
I think you're confusing the job of an editor with the task of correcting errors in spelling and grammar, which would be done by a proof-reader, not an editor.
Writers shouldn't require that their editors do proof-reading, instead concentrating on other aspects of what they write, such as relevance to the target market and recommending which parts need to be tightened up, re-arranged, or dropped entirely.
Spell checking and basic grammar are properly the responsibility of the writer. If you can't be bothered to proof-read your own stuff, then maybe you deserve to be haunted by the (grammar|spelling|style) nazis
Let's call it what it is, Anti-Social Media.
Seriously? You want a citation to prove something doesn't exist?
If you need web hosting, you could do worse than here
It also removes the international flavour (notice the English as opposed to American spelling of flavour vs lavor)?
"Fixing" story submissions is simply neither a reason to further homogenize the net, nor justifiable from a legal standpoint.
Let's call it what it is, Anti-Social Media.
My understanding of this situation is that Apple and Microsoft both hold a lot of multitouch IP and went around filing suit against all of the Android phone manufacturers. Microsoft believes that their IP is superior to that of Apple's and offered a low-cost licensing program that included indemnity against any lawsuits by Apple - that is, in HTC's case against Apple, in exchange for the licensing agreement, Microsoft is picking up the tab for the legal bills and will cover any settlement costs incurred by HTC.
For HTC, this is a no-brainer - its cheap legal insurance. For Microsoft, this is a low-risk, high-reward strategy, especially if other manufacturers take the same deal: MSFT gets cash on the barrelhead plus, if they win the Apple vs HTC/other manufacturer suits, they are in a much better position to go after Apple directly for violating their multitouch IP.
just pay the mafia what they ask. its just a tax; just a cost of doing business. right?
RIGHT?
Yeah, most of us make this same decision every April 15th.
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
So - if we accept that editors shouldn't actually "edit" anything - why don't we just replace them with a shell script?
Slashdot requires hardware, software, and electricity to run. Sure, they could crowdsource story selection, but then they'd have to get other jobs. I don't begrudge them a successful business strategy.
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
Unfortunately with LG, Samsung, and HTC all on the list, we've eliminated over half the available android phones for anyone who refuses to give microsoft a dime.
This is an analyst's guess as to what's in the deal between Microsoft and HTC. The timing is very suspicious - it comes a day after investors are calling for Ballmer's head on a pike, specifically because of Microsofts' failures in the mobile phone space.
Who knows - maybe Nokia wasn't the first time Microsoft paid a handset maker a huge chunk of cash to make a deal?
Maybe in return, Microsoft charges HTC less for each WinPhone license - or even pays HTC?
If you believed every convenient rumour from every analyst, your head would already have exploded. This sounds like a very convenient astroturf story to try to take attention away from the Nokiasoft and Skype fiascoes, and Microsoft being passed by IBM in value.
It would be far from the first time that an analyst released a paid opinion (remember - the courts have ruled that they can say pretty much anything they want, without facts to back it up, because they're "just opinions").
Let's call it what it is, Anti-Social Media.
$100 million is just 20 million phone fees. With current rate of production that's what HTC pays to Microsoft in about a year and a half, a much shorter time than a $100 million lawsuit.
Contrary to the popular belief, there indeed is no God.
I'm confused.
How do I pronounce the words "f*ck" and "sh*t"?
Kid-proof tablet..
I purchased the Thunderbolt and went with Verizon two weeks ago. If I had known more than 1 cent of my purchase was going to Microsoft I would have reconsidered. Until now I pride myself that at 44 years old, working in IT for 20 years now, not a single dime of my money has ever gone to Microsoft. When forced to use anything from Microsoft it has always been a free copy since DOS 3, Microsoft may call it piracy but I strongly contest that. I have been witness to antitrust violations that go back to the 80's and MS has not paid its dues to society for the harm it has caused. If I knew $5 of my purchase was going to MS I would have went with another option.
Yes. That closed ecosystem not only restricts your flexibility, but continues to support the opposition.
That said, I still see Apple's ecosystem as more poisonous. I'm willing to wear a small cost on top of my handset cost if my handset then gives me the feature I want (talking to Exchange, for example). OTOH it's not like I can opt-out of that... ... but it's still miles better than buying a Windows phone and spending a whole bunch more money on things that I can do just as well, and with my freedom intact, on another platform.
It could be argued that HTC have 'taken one for the team' but it is indeed criminal that they've had to do so in the first place.
-.-. --.-
"That's why Linux market share is so low due to so many patented goodies that are essential for modern computers."
That's just silly. Patents have little or nothing to do with Linux market share. I've run Linux as my primary systems personally and in business since 2005 and I've never run into any "patented goodies" that make my experience any less than yours. If you care to name a few of them, then I might concede the point but really..?
Linux market share is low because of OEM deals. If patents were a doubt-point for OEM's, Dell would never (meagerly) offered Linux on their product line. What's on a computer at manufacture usually stays on a computer for the majority of people...at least here in the US. Half the people that own a computer couldn't coherently tell you what an operating system is, not to mention the differences between them.
Windows assumes you are an idiot...Linux demands proof.
There's always the option of a Sony Android phone :D
Short term, this kind of patent trolling is a nuisance. Long term, it spells doom for Microsoft.
$5/handset isn't going to make Microsoft wealthy, and as Microsoft products keep failing in the market and the stock stagnates, fewer and fewer people will want to work there, drying up the patent pipeline.
somehow that doesn't feel like much of a victory...
Nothing. You're probably thinking of exFAT, which requires licensing. But I'm not aware of any Android device that would read exFAT cards (it's really only needed if you want one larger than 32Gb and still readable by Windows, and there isn't exactly a large demand for this yet).
Slashdot is not a book publishing company, it's a web site.
If an "editor" is not able to correct spelling and grammar mistakes, he's not qualified to be an "editor." If he's not willing to, he's not qualified either.
The job of an "editor" on a site like this is to choose content suitable for the site's audience and present it in a clear, interesting way. This job includes (it should!) rewriting story submissions. Story submissions are not "letters to the editor" (or shouldn't be); they are pointers to interesting stories on other web sites--that's all they should be. The editors should take it from there.
Clearly the "editors" on Slashdot don't deserve the title--they're simply story-pickers. It takes about as much skill and thought as picking fruit off a tree does.
"Those who consume the bulk of goods are those who make them. We must never forget this secret of our prosperity."
The same is not (should not be) true for story submissions. Slashdot is not a common carrier. It's an online publication with an open comments feature. What you're describing is Digg.
If an "editor" is not able to correct spelling and grammar mistakes, he's not qualified to be an "editor." If he's not willing to, he's not qualified either.
The job of an "editor" on a site like this is to choose content suitable for the site's audience and present it in a clear, interesting way. This job includes (it should!) rewriting story submissions. Story submissions are not "letters to the editor" (or shouldn't be); they are pointers to interesting stories on other web sites--that's all they should be. The editors should take it from there.
Clearly the "editors" on Slashdot don't deserve the title--they're simply story-pickers. It takes about as much skill and thought as picking fruit off a tree does.
People do not come to Slashdot to read poorly-written summaries full of spelling and grammar mistakes linked to stories on scummy, ad-ridden web sites...oh, wait...
There's no excuse nor good reason for garbage. Whose side are you on, anyway?
"Those who consume the bulk of goods are those who make them. We must never forget this secret of our prosperity."
This doesn't really boost Microsoft's goodwill. Plus, WP7 suck.