Slashdot Mirror
Student Suspended For Posting On YouTube
An anonymous reader writes "A Canadian student has been suspended from school and had the police called on him due to satirical animations that he posted to YouTube. Jack Christie, a 12th-grade student at the Donald A. Wilson Secondary School in Whitby, Ontario, Canada, created the videos in his own time, off-campus."
While I agree with Jack Christie that it's ridiculous that he is suspended for posting some videos on YouTube, I don't like the video featured in the article at all. Juvenile nonsense. Grow up Jack.
-- Cheers!
Schools in North America at least--if not everywhere in the West--seem to think that their disciplinary powers extend to any actions committed by students anywhere during their years of attendance.
In my opinion, the only time a school should have the ability to initiate disciplinary action for an act committed off school premises should be after trial and conviction of a crime. Free speech protections often don't apply in schools (don't get me started on that), but a school has absolutely no right to restrict a student's speech off school grounds, and this would be aptly enforced by requiring disciplinary sanctions for off ground behavior be the result of a conviction in a court of law. This school would get laughed at if they even mentioned prosecution of this student for this behavior to a DA, so there's no reason they should be allowed to do this.
..they aren't even a real country anyway
This is downright atrocious behaviour for a school.
This is up there with that school who were recording students on cameras on loaned laptops.
They have NO AUTHORITY on what students do outside of school. PERIOD.
Especially if it is a public school. Private schools can vary. (and questionable at best)
Seems like it is just a load of nonsense over school shooting because "oh no a stick figure has a gun! HE IS GOING TO KILL THE SCHOOL!"
Either that or he is too smart and it scares them. BURN THE WITCH!
I am ashamed of my country when I can read that, and it isn't followed by "The staff members were promptly fired". Believe it or not, the Charter of Rights and Freedoms applies even to high school kids, and no, your petty little school rules do not trump those Rights.
What an embarrassment for Canada.
I am sure that those responsible for the person making this decision, will surely want to discipline, or tdismiss the vindictive and tyrannical individual(s) responsible for this decision.
Truly pathetic.
The summery says: "Created the videos in his own time, off-campus."
The video says: "This was done up back in November of 2010, for an economics course project."
So I don't think its as independent from school as this summary wants to make you believe.
I see tons of videos like that on YouTube everyday. First Evan Emory, and now this?
Is anyone else tired of this whole "Freedom of Speech" excuse which always seems to crop up every single time?
For one thing, this has nothing to do with talking, so I guess you could call it "Freedom of Expression", but this excuse can justify anything you want.
Not saying anything about it particular to this case, just that its so very overused its become tiring. Pretty much anything can be justified, including urinating on religious symbols and taking images of them (and yes that happened).
I still can't wrap my mind around the concept of "suspension" as a punishment for someone attending a public school. First and foremost, wouldn't truant student be "suspending" himself? Second, if a student missed any essential classes because he is suspended, wouldn't it make all subsequent classes pointless because student won't be able to understand them (or, worse, misleading because student will misunderstand them)?
Contrary to the popular belief, there indeed is no God.
Here's the video starting at second 1 to skip the ads on YouTube
The question should not be if he did it in his free time, off campus, but if it was related to the school.
I can imagine a lot of things which one can do "during my free time" and "off campus" which should get you fired from school, even if there is no crime which can be persecuted.
For example: contacting or ridiculing teachers in an inappropriate way (yes, these are employees and they have rights), the same for students (nobody should be forced to sit besides somebody bullying him at facebook, and if school is the primary contact for this person suspension is the right thing to do).
All the news messages like "xzy got ... for doing ... on facebook" withou specifying what the content of ... was are as stupid as saying "he got in jail for swinging a piece of wood through the air", which may be technically correct, but could also be a baseball bat hitting the face of somebody after swinging through the air.
Please dear media: separate means, motivations, tools, and fact of crime more carefully. It really does not matter today if you write somebody an insulting letter which you put up 1000 times in you town to lampposts or post an insulting video.
Andy Sanberg said on the nerdist podcast. Film school is where you get out all your bad ideas. so we shouldn't care whether its funny, the only reason we're even watching his stuff is the principal hasn't heard of the Streisand effect
It seems the attitude of this school is "we have the authority, and you are worthless little shits who have to obey. ". At my school, they had the attitude "we have the authority, and you are young citizens of this country who need to learn how to fight and succeed against authority, and we will do our best to teach you".
I think you're the kind of person who gets fed up with this whole tired Freedom of Speech thing when you don't agree with what's being said.
Either you have freedom of speech or you don't. You can't pick and choose.
I live in Europe where there are many restrictions on what can and can't be discussed in public. I don't admire much about the politics in the US but one thing I very much admire is that if someone thinks something they have an absolute right to say it out loud.
I can't see the point of urinating on religious symbols but if the symbols are owned by the person doing the urinating then let them. If a lot of people admire such action they will get a large audience and if nobody is interested they will have wasted their time. It is the people who would ban it that I am most concerned about because it is those people who don't have an interest in free speech.
It was a fucking lame video. And what they complained as being obscene or whatever, you see ten times worse in just about any shitty movie these days. Streisand all the way. For what it's worth, Southwestern Ontario (where this happened) is like the American Midwest Bible Belt with a Canadian socialization slant. As you move east and hit Kitchener Waterloo you are in horse and buggy Mennonite country. Well not in the city but immediately all around it but all sorts of God Squad schools in it. You don't actually hit right thinking people till you get east of Kitchener Waterloo and into the Toronto area. Anyway the whole region from KW down to Windsor is rife with midwest religious idiots.
Attempting to invasively damage individuals in such a way that misunderstands an individuals personal property boundaries, intellectual property boundaries, team structure, and personal time normally indicates that that person has a “Paranoid Psychosis.” Top Tip!
The purpose of existence is to make money.
He sounds very mature and level headed in his reply to the school via this youtube video, where he says "Jack Christie Addresses the Board"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AnW2_i0Q_i4
He also shows talent in writing and his style is something like South Park. The guy could have a career in the animation industry if he carries on with this kind of work. Isn't that what schools should be encouraging?! ... WTF is his tyrannical school for, if its not preparing him for a career!
I don't know if you realize , but FOR a campus project, you can fully work OFF campus. this is done all the time when a teacher give you stuff to work at home, home exercise, projects, documents etc... It does not matter if it started by havign a etacher giving a püroject at school, if the WORK is done off campus 100% then the school has no right to say anything about the subsequent publication.
C. Sagan : A demon haunted world:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345409469/
visit randi.org
"This video contains content from PIAS, SME und Kontor New Media. It is not available in your country." This is what Germans see when trying to watch the video. Just a reminder that Germany is a third world country youtubewise.
On se Internetz nobody noes your German.
They called the police FOR WHAT???
Isn't that a gross abuse of power?
Who needs Transformers when you have a school that can turn into Barbara Streisand?
USE HOT GRITS WITH STATUE OF NATALIE PORTMAN (NAKED AND PETRIFIED)
If the reader's comments on the article are any indication, this suspension grows out to be a mayor PR disaster for school and school board. Not a single positive remark for the decision, as far as I can tell. Maybe next time they will be more careful.
As the latin saying goes: HOMO SAPIENS NON URINAT IN VENTUM.
Everyone knows that satire means you're dangerous. Let me explain:
Satire means you have no respect for authority.
Having no respect for authority means you have no respect for the police.
Having no respect for the police means you have no respect for their guns.
Having no respect for guns means you place no value on your own life.
If you place no value on your own life, why place a value on other people's lifes?
And since you value neither your own life nor that of anyone else you're practically guaranteed to commit at least a murder-suicide.
Satirists should be shot and then carpet-bombed for the safety of us all.
USE HOT GRITS WITH STATUE OF NATALIE PORTMAN (NAKED AND PETRIFIED)
There is no OS but Linux.
--- Liberty in our Lifetime
So a kid that attends your school made an offensive video rife with juvenile humour. So what? You say he posted it to Youtube? Wow, what a catastrophe! Now the rest of the world's population who shares his level of humour can laugh with him. So what?
Here's a news flash for you school administration types.... you're not the primary authority figures in this young man's life. You are tasked with teaching him academics and their application, not with guiding his sense of humour into approved channels. Fuck off.
Dilbert's take on Internet logic
Wasn't this part of the plot of an episode of the British show Kingdom?
My son who has NEVER been in trouble, who NEVER caused any problem, who was liked by his teachers, was not allowed to walk at his graduation because he was late and missed the practice. Other students who missed where allowed to walk and he went to the principal himself to talk to him when he realized he was late and was treated like someone who snuck a gun into school. I can assure you this wouldn't have happened had I been there.
Needless to say this isn't the end. I have been in discussions with the Knox (IN) school board and plan on pursuing this.
It is high time we took our schools back. The nanny state has to go! What is happening?
You need to try and ban it, or punish somebody for making it.
I would have never watched that video if were not for this slashdot article.
I love how satire is only satire when a peer (presumably that you like) makes it. Coming from a subordinate, it seems that the powers that be consitently react the same way. I found myself at least trying to sympathize with the school for their actions (two sides to every story and all that), until I read, "Gavin Russell, prime minister of the student government, gathered scores of signatures on a petition supporting Mr. Christie before two staff members warned him that, if he continued, he could also face punishment." What kind of message are sending to your students?
Every time that we hear about another incident like this, it turns out badly for the school (and for the student, since later vindication never makes up for years of trouble).
So why don't school officials stop doing it? Do they know that there are hundreds of such cases each year where the intimidation wins early and the media never hears of it? No, more likely, they are just ignorant of the dozens of school officials who have lost jobs and elections for trying this.
Some one needs to write a Continuing Education unit on Media Relations and Student Rights for these losers.
"We reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals." --The American President (20.1.2009)
Not that the video is that funny, but thinking about the school administration watching it and getting all bent over it really kills me. Now that is funny. The schools really do need purged of these idiot administrators. God made stupid people for practice.....
Apparently petitions are also banned by the cryptofascists who run this school.
The old school type of society is being confronted by modern life. The supporters of what has been are in terror that their morals, values and institutions are ready for the dumpster. The old guard can't handle it and is trying to fight back. They can't win as we have such a huge percentage of students that will either flunk out or drop out that the threat of loss of education is not as big a stick as it used to be. This stuff is building towards a confrontation.
The only crime here is that his first Youtube video blatantly lifts a joke from Aqua Teen Hunger Force Colon Movie Film For Theaters at the very beginning. Come up with your own material, kiddo.
(But still, good luck with the whole school thing.)
From article: "... they sent him home and called the police."
Must have gone something like, "Hi, is this the police? I'd like to report rudeness on the internet!".
Reminds me of my own brush with suspension in high school. I wrote and printed up a naughty little zine outside of school, and then proceeded to distribute it to people at school. I fully deserved the suspension, of course, but it was about 2-3 months before the end of my junior year. I was a bright student and had enough credits to where this didn't effect my graduation date in the slightest. If anything, all it did was give me an extra 2-3 months of summer vacation that year.
From an admittedly superficial reading about this incident it appears that the school (principal?) prefers authoritarian coercion and punishment over education and counselling.
Oh Canada, you can do better than that.
Schools, and most of our organizations are tyrannies. A few well connected and powerful people make all the decisions. There's no democratic process and there's little if any accountability towards those who have no power..
This is evil. Pure and simple. Some people are just screwing everybody so they can be privileged beyond their contributions. Corrupt, evil destroyers of humanity. These scumbags should be held accountable for all the damage they've done and are doing. It's a shame we, as a people, are stupid enough to allow ourselves to be ripped right off by these traitors of humanity.
Looks to me like the real problem is this: The school administration is embarrassed at the exposure to the public of what they were encouraging and rewarding in their classes.
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
1) How is it that school administrators had the time to look at this drek? Is this what we're paying them unhealthy sums of money to do?
2) I dare say that if this happened in the good old U.S. of A., the ACLU would be all over the school like stink on sh*t bleating about First Amendment rights.
The best part is, presumably the school administrators started their tirade thinking they were preventing another school shooting. What I don't understand is, how does strong arming him into taking down the videos make the school safer? Youtube videos never shot anyone (to my knowledge). How does intimidating students who speak out in support of his free speech rights with petitions keep students safe?
If they were concerned for his safety, then privately calling the police and a psychologist to assess him would have been appropriate. I'm not sure how a media shit storm affects school safety, but I'm going to go ahead and guess that any potential effects are not in the positive direction.
This is ridiculous. Feel free to contact the administrators and tell them all about the Streisand Effect:
http://wilson.ddsbschools.ca/contact-3.html
DonaldAWilson_SS@durham.edu.on.ca
The school's concern might have a sound basis. I think the admins who did this were more concerned about liability of ignoring a possible sign of next US school shooting than the subtle contours of the intersection between 1st Amendment law and public schools. Quality or message aside, the video does --objectively speaking-- open with scenes of violence. Arguably these scenes are (crudely) glorified. Who gives a shit? It's violent media, and it seems that even in the most heavily censored regimes, there is an acceptable level of violence from moderate to explicitly detailed. I don't believe the school would or should care whether there IS a link between real violence and creative output nearly as much as it would care that there MIGHT be a link. That would be the worst-case scenario here.
If he either suggests that someone come to harm or breaks libel laws, he might be in trouble. There is nothing to prevent people from "threatening to tell the police." The police will determine if a crime has been committed... that's their job. Since the videos are on YouTube, it's probably a pretty easy investigation.
Other then that the first suspension, the indefinite suspension, and threatening the student government for passing around a pettition, one of the most important things that can be done in a democracy, are all absurd, and he should sue their asses off, especially since this it the end of his grade 12 year. This might affect his graduation, and is directly affecting his senior prom, (even if he does, eventually, get to attend).
If you say America you mean the country, if you say North America you mean the continent.
If you graduated in the 90's then you're in the age group that is voting for and working for those running the country- so it's your fault for supporting the fascist regime.
from TFA
principal told kid to remove content, threatened to call police if not
kid, umm no i have rights, go ahead and call the police, i didnt do anything wrong
police... umm concluding investigation (hint fuck off, we have better things to do idiot) found no crime has been commited
schools PR aka communications director also making over 100k a year fails to comprehend satire, and labels student a racist because of an authored work of fiction, intentionally (lets hope so, nobody can be this stupid), trying to cover their own asses.
ppl are calling for these two idiots jobs', and rallying around the kid to encourage him to keep on thinking freely, and creatively
kid was 17 yrs old when made video, 18 when suspended, ya its weird. and not exactly an adult in his province 18 cant legally have a beer, its rediculous 19. next door Quebec has 18 drinking age, as it should be, same as voting, military, being tried as an adult. if the state can give you life in prison, or execute you, it cant rationally spout shit about you being too young for a beer...
school student president was threatened when creating a petition among students to have kid reinstated etc..
school has undoubtedly, quietly lawyered up now, and are looking for damage control
I strongly suggest the students also get some good lawyers and sue their tuition and beer money out of the high school, preferably out of these twp idiots salaries (I can dream)
their reason for demanding the video be removed?
it was not in keeping with the moral fibre of the school
Fuck that school they cant tell you what to do on your own time.
And i would be holding myself back from shooting the cock sucker in the face who try's to tell me otherwise.
No wonder these kids are blowing up the fucking schools they got it coming to them at least this one.
*this*
Can anyone post details about the principal?
Given the reaction to the student petition, it's doubtful that the school would listen to any comments on this matter.
Maybe the mayor can have a little discussion with the principal about this, however...
In Junior High/High School we used to draw way more intense subjects and no one complained. Shit the last image I drew in high school got an A on it and the subject was a monster truck called Compton Crusher (Use to listen to lots of NWA) driving over LAPD police cars. It was even featured with other students art work in-front of the school office.
by TheSpoom (715771) Uncaring Linux user here. I have nothing to add to this but please continue. *munches popcorn*
I found it freaking hilarious.
Not only that, but the kids actually got talent doing animation for his age,
it's a similar style than say xkcd.
If he ever become a professional movie animator, this is CV material,
as much as your high school computer science fair project.
I wonder if that's what's really going on there. If the teacher has been pain in the administration's ass, they cannot easily get rid of him, and so they go after his students.
AccountKiller
What all the comments I've read, and from my experience the public in general, is that schools are primarily required to act In Loco Parentis. Literally, In Place of a Parent. So, if a parent would punish you for an activity, expect a school to behave in the same fashion.
From the wikipedia article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_loco_parentis
"Tinker v. Des Moines Independent Community School District (1969), when the Supreme Court decided that "conduct by the student, in class or out of it, which for any reason - whether it stems from time, place, or type of behavior - materially disrupts classwork or involves substantial disorder or invasion of the rights of others is, of course, not immunized by the constitutional guarantee of freedom of speech.""
And:
"In Hazelwood School District v. Kuhlmeier (1987) the Supreme Court similarly ruled that "First Amendment rights of students in the public schools are not automatically coextensive with the rights of adults in other settings, and must be applied in light of the special characteristics of the school environment""
Schools, like it or not, are having to assume responsibility, or have it forced upon them, by the kid's parents who AREN'T taking responsibility along with socienty at large. Lots of responsibility, minimal authority. So they go all risk-management over stuff like this, weld the baby to the bathwater, and over the side it goes. All about image, and the school board (or their counsel) likely is afraid of being accused of doing nothing. Interestingly, the school is not at all mentioned in the video. They definitely stepped over a line here.
The video doesn't slander the school.
The video doesn't commit libel against it's teachers.
No one is threatened.
No one is harmed.
WTF are they even complaining about this video for? This kid should be talking to a lawyer and suing the school.. This is Canada, not Nazi Germany.
I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
I took one look at that smug expression on his face and decided to read no further.
Somebody needs to give this kid a fucking tv show.
He's a genius.
This signature has Super Cow Powers
I would like to know what this is all about in the video... But there is quit a bit of censoring in youtube going on for German IPs.
Translation of the message:
"This video contains contend from PIAS, SMD and Kontor New Media. It is not avaible in your country."
I guess its just because he used "there" music. But you never know...
Could somebody give a non-youtube link for the video?
The fact that there are kids like this gives me hope for humanity.
Do sports bring in the bucks before University? Even then, do they really bring in the bucks? I hear this argument a lot, usually when someone is proposing spending a boatload of money on things like new sports stadiums and so forth. As far as I can tell, the promised bucks, even for big municipal stadium projects for rich professional teams, never seem to materialize for the people who actually shelled out the "investment" in the first place. So, I would have to say that academics, art, band _and_ sports cost money unless there are some good figures to demonstrate otherwise.
Also, I have to say that your former employer sounds horrible.
Email address; donaldawilson_ss@durham.edu.on.ca
This kid is a trouble maker, a rabel rouser, the kind of kid that's got a big future, that the teachers and administrators at the school will say things about. Things like, "He's just not living up to his potential," or similar. He's probably accused of being a ringleader in class, and he more than likely has a bad case of ADD. He probably looks up to characters like Ferris Beuler, or similar anti heroes, and makes his opinion known. He's good at social networking, as we can see, and the establishment at the school probably hates him as much as they've felt hatred for anyone. That doesn't make them right.
Had youtube existed 20 years ago, I would have been in the same boat.
So I can spot talent when I see it.
There's nothing anyone's going to be able to do to shut this kid up.
And there's nothing they should do, either.
Let the boy work.
You might learn something.
This signature has Super Cow Powers
I don't know the details of this, and frankly, they are unimportant. Make videos on your own time. Post them to YouTube. And the police are called why? The school is grumpy why? Where is the civics lesson about freedom of speech, and if we've been over all of that, then where is the example? "Oh, we have freedom of speech, but only if you don't offend the principal, or the Prime Minister, or the neighbor down the street, or the cop, or the business owner whos dumping nuclear waste into the river. So long as its about butterflies and roses, you can say anything you like, otherwise, jail! Nope, the details aren't important. It might be in bad taste. It might make people angry, but clearly the overreaction has crossed a civil liberties line. The principal and teacher(s) should be charged. The cops should be suspended, and the entire community needs a real lesson in free speech.
The school should get a restraining order against that troublemaker so he can never set foot with 500m of that school again.
Grounds for restraining order: vague sense of feeling threatened
How many more years will slashdot have an off-by-one error on your Score in your profile?
When this happens in China its outrageous, when it happens in the west its acceptable. I know someone is going to say but in China the government beats you, etc. etc. but seriously isn't it ironic? I mean, we can all sit there and say, yea but it isn't as bad as, etc. but isn't it interesting how similar those in power react? The more stories like this that leak out about people getting caught and punished for small insignificant things, the more weary people become on posting anything truly critical. For anyone who has ever worked on the street level, you can easily see the power dynamics and the control mechanism at work. Its really fascinating to see it.
I was reading the comments on the site the link takes us to and it's remarkable. You never see thought like that in the comments on U.S. news sites. It makes me sad.
When I first read the story, I felt, like a majority of posters here, that this is an outrage, and watch out for the Streisand Effect. After watching all four of this kid's video, I don't think it's so cut and dry.
The fact that the videos are about what you'd expect from an 18 year old has been beaten to death, so no need to elaborate there. But there were details in both the videos themselves and the manner in which they were presented/created that bear repeating:
1.) The videos feature the name/likeness of one of the school's teachers.
2.) The videos appear to slander other students (I'm assuming every name in the videos are names of fellow students--names, for instance, linked to anal sex in the backseat of a car or called a dick, etc.).
3.) The videos were made for and, I'm assuming, presented in a school class. This is referenced in the videos themselves.
Although I agree that the school's administration was being a little naive in that they clearly don't understand the Streisand Effect, they were well within their rights to discipline the student. The student made videos featuring the names of their faculty and students that reflected poorly on the school. If this were in the U.S., the teacher or one of the other students made fun of in the videos probably could have sued the school for not taking action against the author of the videos if they felt the videos were overly hostile towards them.
The question for me is this: The videos are clearly not a shining reflection of the school this kid attended. Hell, viewing the videos myself, I was left wondering, "And this kid was allowed to show these in class!? All the way through!?" I know I've NEVER had a teacher that would have let any of these videos play past the first minute in class (in fact, I failed my sophomore final Biology project and had to have a parent/teacher/principal conference due to a similarly inappropriate--but funny!--video I attempted to present to the class), let alone not punish me or fail me for making them. Having said all that, once the initial presentation is past and the kid posts the videos to YouTube, is the fact that the videos are in the public sphere and embarrassing to the school enough to warrant punishing the student? I agree that the school has no place punishing students for activities that they conduct off of school grounds and also that the student has a right to free speech, but at what point does the offensive material cross the line of free speech and into slander? If none of the kids/teacher he made fun of in the videos complain, does the school really have a legitimate beef? And should the school suspend the student, or should they just report the incident to the police and make it a legal matter since it's off school property?
If you ask me, this is a bit of CYA by the school. Apparently they've got some Civics teacher that's REALLY lenient with his class and lets kids show videos in class featuring swearing (could care less, but a lot of parents might not share that view), sharing cocaine with children (pretty much universally agreed-upon to be not school-appropriate material), and crudely making fun of fellow classmates. The school administration eventually sees the videos somehow, finds out that they're public on YouTube, and can just imagine what parents in the district might say if they catch wind of any of them: "You let THIS go on in your classrooms!?" Wanting to throw the lid over the videos was probably smart. The way they went about it--and every subsequent decision and press blurb they made regarding the matter from then on out--was downright idiotic.
Donald A. Wilson Secondary School
Address:
681 Rossland Rd W.
Whitby, ON, L1P 1Y1
Canada
E-mail: DonaldAWilson_SS@durham.edu.on.ca
Telephone: 905-665-5057
Fax: 905-665-1434
Principal: Warren Palmer
VPs: Chris Rollo, Dave Sasseville
Following is some selective quoting from the school's code of conduct:
You like this http://tinyurl.com/4yn3fuq
it happened in a magnet school... right before midterms. I failed every class because I missed every test, and was kicked out of that school for 'bad grades'. No, it was the fucking website.
Most of the art was made by my friend, but noone asked.
next year, the woman who did it won assistant principal of the year.
I should have sued.
So much rage for that @!^@