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AMD Llano APU Review - Slow CPU, Fast GPU
Vigile writes "Though we did see the fruits of AMD's Fusion labor in the form of the Brazos platform late in 2010, Llano is the first mainstream part to be released that combines traditional x86 CPU cores with Radeon-based SIMD arrays for a heterogeneous computing environment. The A-series of APUs reviewed over at PC Perspective starts with the A8-3850 that is a combination of a true quad-core processor and 400 shader processors similar to those found in AMD's Radeon HD 5000 series of GPUs. The good news for the first desktop APU is that the integrated graphics blows past the best Intel has to offer on the Sandy Bridge platform by a factor of 2-4x in terms of gaming. The bad news is the CPU performance: running at only 2.9 GHz the Phenom-based x86 portion often finds itself behind even the dual-core Intel Core i3-2100. On the bright side you can pick one up next month for only $135."
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Unless you want bang for your buck, $100 more and you have a good high end Intel that sweeps AMD away.
I'm curious to see the output of this chip when mining Bitcoins. Bitcoin output depends heavily on the number of shaders and right now the Radeon 5000 series are the best value for your money, with a 5870 offering over 400 Mhash/s (which is a lot). CPU power on the other hand doesn't matter at all, so all in all this Liano chip sounds like the perfect candidate for a Bitcoin mining rig. With the current conditions, you'll probably earn your chip back in less than a month.
Pretty good is actually pretty bad.
On newegg that core i3-2100 is retailing for $124; how do the graphics in the llano stack up against the i3's graphics? Might not be such a bad deal at all.
Article (or at least the material they got from AMD) indicates that graphics is precisely where it shines, so an i3-class CPU with nearly-discrete-class graphics, at an i3 pricetag, sounds quite compelling.
This new AMD product specifically targets the budget user with occasional gamings. It allows entry level gaming, for the price of a very cheap CPU + GPU at lower TDP. It's also a better solution than a CPU + Discrete graphics because it already gives you entry level gaming without taking up a PCI-E slot; at the same time allows for asymmetrical CrossFire so in case you want to get a high end CPU you can see a benefit (in DX10 & DX11 titles)
This new APU from AMD shoots down any budget graphics Intel has to offer whilst giving you more CPU power to do anything Atom does.
At the end of the day, Core i3 + HD3000 costs more and has a higher idle power usage.
IMO the title should read: "Brilliant new budget gaming APU from AMD!"
Ladies and gentlemen, I remind you about how well-documented this sort of thing is: the wheel of reincarnation. Personally, I'm betting that hardware is now so disposable that we'll eventually get to having our machines in one hunk of silicon, and the wheel will stall.
Bio questions? Ask me to start a Q&A journal. Computer analogies available for most topics!
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/amd-a8-3850-llano,2975.html#xtor=RSS-182
Looks pretty solid for entry level stuff. Interesting to see the "Enhanced Bulldozer" design that also incorporates the GPU elements.
I can see CPUs being available now, but where are the boards to put them on?
Figure in redesign needed for software that expect GPU memory pipes when that memory is now more direct, and you easily see where significant improvement is yet to be noted. AMD realizes that and seems to purposely left Llano as limited edition for its speed. Meant for those that want to afford one strictly for optimization. The known slowness help identify potential optimization techniques. They already have one with faster core, yet to be released. Hold out if fast is all you want, as Llano seems strictly for developers.
To saw its slow is a little ridiculous. Compared to a 286? I know, that this is in comparison to other modern CPUs, but any modern CPU is pretty fast.
I wonder if AMD or Intel will ever manage to develop an x86 integrated chip for handheld devices. It would be pretty interesting to have binary compatability between desktop and handheld devices.
Whats the story on overclocking these things?
I'd imagine there's a whole new set of problems to overcome before they can be reliably tweaked by the end user
The article does not test using Quick Sync technology for the video rendering portion. When this is turned on, an Intel HD3000 is 6 times faster at video encoding than a top-of-the-line Radeon. (Benchmarks here). And also some of the tests show the Core i7-970 is twice as SLOW than a Core i5?? Gotta call B.S. on that one. And what's the point of testing a dual card (APU + Radeon) against a single Intel integrated graphics? We all know the HD3000 isn't for gaming, that's why you get a $65 Radeon to run your games. Most mid-range laptops come with some sort of discrete graphics card that rivals the GPU performance of the Llano. I waited around for Llano and was severely dissapointed with the CPU results. TomsHardware and Anandtech reviewed it in-depth and found the gaming performance was comparable against a mid-range discrete card, along with similar battery life and similar heat. However cost is the only thing working in AMD's favor. I still don't see why somebody would buy a 4-year old CPU architecture that will be EOL'd by the time Bulldozer comes out in a few months.
The i3 does not have the best graphics for the SB, the i7 does. They say it is 2x-4x what that is. Well, that means pretty reasonable lower-midrange graphics. Enough to play modern games, though probably not with all the eye candy.
That could make it worthwhile for budget systems. $135 for an all inclusive solution rather than $124 for a CPU and $50 on a video card.
Of course there are some downsides too in that it is a weaker CPU and some games (Bad Company 2 and Rift come to mind) need better CPUs and of course with the GPU you could spend $80 instead of $50 and get one that far outperforms any integrated GPU, this one included.
Still, I can see the idea being appealing. If they can firm up their CPU performance a bit with Bulldozer (which isn't likely to be as fast as Sandy Bridge but will be faster) and maybe bring down the price a bit it is a good budget gaming alternative.
I know people who are interested in PC gaming, but put off by the cost and complexity of getting discrete GPUs. If AMD can sell them a cheap integrated solution, it may be a win.
Just have to see in the long run.
Can the llano be tapped for green?
SmashTech - No smashing of tech involved
I'll be building a mini-itx system this summer, and I find the cheaper (and possibly cooler) versions of Llano more interesting. Since the GPU side of the chip is rather bandwidth-limited, I wonder whether the lower-clocked and/or lower shader count (320 instead of 400) versions of the chip might perform almost as well as the highest-end chip all the sites I've seen have tested. Anybody seen reviews of any of the rest of the lineup?
It's just not. Maybe it's "slow" compared to the newest chip, but, if you want to pull that crap, the newest chips are "slow" compared to a new Cray.
If you're doing things on a regular basis that are CPU-intensive, then, sure, you need speed. But 99% of applications aren't even going to stress a quad core @ 3ghz.
That's faster than the Phenom II I'm using now, and still costs less even with a GPU built in. And unlike the equivalent Intel part I know I'll get basics like hardware virtualisation without having to read the 0.5-micron-high fine print.
What is the loonix support like for this 'guano' 'APU'?
Hardware accelerated browsing for both IE 10 and flash 10.3 it will make up for the mediorcre CPU unlike the atom CPU netbooks. This is perfect for an entry level CPU for someone who just browses the web, plays Angry Birds, and runs Office (about 80% of users). This thing can run full 1080p HD video at 30 FPS easily with Flash 10.3 or higher.
However, you are running Ubuntu 10.10 with flash 10.0 with Firefox 3.6 you wont see any benefit because the tasks are not unloaded off to the CPU. Hopefully this will be fixed in future releases with better flash and more modern web browsers.
But if the Metro interface with all its color and eye candy is the new norm this moderately priced chip will due wonders offloading its GPU even if the benchmarks do not show it right away. The user experience will be better.
World of warcraft can finally run on a cheap integrated video now. :-)
http://saveie6.com/
Ok I *may* not have understood exactly everything from the article, however it appears to me that this is really boron/carbon/beryllium fission not not fusion. Anyone else pick up on that? Or do I have it wrong?
The problem is that these chips are not competitive with the Atom when it comes to power consumption. They are about on par with SandyBridge i3's in that regard, which is why everyone is comparing their performance against the i3s. There is no chance they will replace the Atom in netbooks (especially after Atom moves to 32nm later this year), but they will be good for low end laptops.
That review, like all the others I've seen, only covered the A8-3850. Totally irrelevant to what I was asking.
Is it pronounce "yano" like a dago, or "shclano" like a sheepshagger?
What many have not noticed is that AMD has had Fusion delayed, mostly due to the lack of a 32nm process. Try making an APU on 45nm, and you will find a very large and hot chip, so AMD had to wait on it. Now, the CPU core that is used here is still based on the old-school AMD K10.5 design that has caused AMD to lag way behind Intel when it comes to CPU performance, and that is why you see the "poor" CPU performance. Keep in mind that most end-users are satisfied with the performance of an Athlon 2 dual-core running at 2.8GHz these days, so the "slow" CPU performance here may not really bother end users.
Bulldozer is going to be the next AMD CPU core design, and if it is a solid performer, then it should be MUCH more interesting when that new core design gets used in an APU. In the same way that Intel has it's tick-tock for process technology followed by core design improvements, AMD may be looking at a tick-tock-tick for CPU design-APU-GPU where we will see the APU improving in cycles, CPU design to GPU design and new APUs that get improvements along the way.
Firefox and IE 9 make use of GPU acceleration, so for web browsing, Llano may already blow the doors off the i3 in terms of performance.
Yes, it might be slower than i3-2X00 in single threaded workloads, but once the program / bench utilizes all cores at close 100% the AMD quad is better and gives more throughput.
For a multitasking environment the quad is definitely better.