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The History of Ethernet

Z34107 tips an article at Ars about the history of ethernet, from its humble beginnings at Xerox PARC in the mid-'70s, to its standardization and broad adoption, to the never-ending quest for higher throughput. Quoting: "It's hard to believe now, but in the early 1980s, 10Mbps Ethernet was very fast. Think about it: is there any other 30-year-old technology still present in current computers? 300 baud modems? 500 ns memory? Daisy wheel printers? But even today, 10Mbps is not an entirely unusable speed, and it's still part of the 10/100/1000Mbps Ethernet interfaces in our computers. Still, by the early 1990s, Ethernet didn't feel as fast as it did a decade earlier. Consider the VAX-11/780, a machine released in 1977 by Digital Equipment Corporation. The 780 comes with some 2MB RAM and runs at 5MHz. Its speed is almost exactly one MIPS and it executes 1757 dhrystones per second. (Dhrystone is a CPU benchmark developed in 1984; the name is a play on the even older Whetstone benchmark.) A current Intel i7 machine may run at 3GHz and have 3GB RAM, executing nearly 17 million dhrystones per second. If network speeds had increased as fast as processor speeds, the i7 would today at least have a 10Gbps network interface, and perhaps a 100Gbps one."

322 comments

  1. We don't need pipes that big by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    In fact, unless you are playing battlefield or photoshop, those processing cores and all their clock cycles are not being used.

    1. Re:We don't need pipes that big by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      Yea, I agree totally, we don't need fast processing or networking.... except for those times where we do. That's why I bought a car with a top speed of 30 miles per hour. I mean, I don't need a car that can go faster, except for when I'm driving on a road with a higher speed limit. In fact, I buy everything with a maximum capacity of my average use, rather than my peak use. That's why my house has zero bedrooms and zero bathrooms. I worked out the math, and I don't use either one of those stupid things anywhere near 50% of the time.

    2. Re:We don't need pipes that big by jellomizer · · Score: 1

      If we are going to mathematical about it. What we really need to do is find the average of our use and calculate the amount of variance our usage has, then convert that into a standard deviation and get something that can handle 2 Standard Deviations faster then the average... That that should be good.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    3. Re:We don't need pipes that big by GreatBunzinni · · Score: 1

      You may not buy cars with a top speed of 30 miles per hour but you do have to obey speed limits. Where I live the top speed that someone can drive at is 120km/h. Meanwhile, my car can drive faster than that, but it won't and there isn't any foreseeable circumstance where it would. This means that if you buy a car specifically because it can go over 180km/h but the fastest you will ever drive it in the car's life cycle is 120km/h then... you are an idiot who blew all your money on a feature that you will never take advantage from.

      This also applies to today's processors. If you need a computer and you end up doing only mundane things such as run office applications, browse the web, communicate and watch videos then if you spend tons of money on a small super-computer that means that you are an idiot who blew all your money on a feature that you will never take any advantage from. Instead, you can spend a fraction of your budget on a system which is anaemic by comparison and you will never know the difference, and keep a huge wad of cash (which you had to work for) to spend on something else. Or even, god forbid, take some free time from work to do anything you'd like.

      --
      Slashdot, fix your code or at least hire someone who is competent at it to do it for you.
    4. Re:We don't need pipes that big by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      You're failing to see that there are times when that max speed is a byproduct of another useful feature. For instance, my car can top 250km/h and I will never get it anywhere near that speed. But I am capable of accelerating to get out of a tight spot when I am traveling 120. It is possible for me to overtake vehicles on a 2 lane road where my wife's 4 cylinder crossover could not. I am capable of pulling out into traffic and accelerating to flow of traffic on busy roads where my wife's vehicle couldn't. This is all because my car has the torque and gearing that comes with a >250km/h vehicle.

      There are many times when mundane tasks such as running office application, browsing the web and watching videos run up against anemic system barriers. A netbook from 3 years ago should be able to do all of these things proficiently, but try copying a large amount of data from one Office program to another while having a few other programs running and you'll quickly hit your page file. How about watching a video while this is happening? Yes, all of these things still work on the anemic system, but sometimes it's worth the extra money to not be bogged down during the outliers.

    5. Re:We don't need pipes that big by magarity · · Score: 1

      You may not buy cars with a top speed of 30 miles per hour but you do have to obey speed limits.

      The speed limit is a maximum; what the car with a top speed of 30 needs to worry about is the speed minimum.

  2. I can think of one... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    DHCP is, unfortunately, still in full glaring view. An address assignment protocol that doesn't let the server force a new address? Who does that?!

    1. Re:I can think of one... by mikael_j · · Score: 1

      How is the server going to force the client to change its address?

      Most major (and properly configured) networks tend to ignore traffic from the wrong IP address on the wrong physical port (so if the DHCP server tells you that your lease expired and your new address is xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx then you just won't be able to use your old address anyway).

      --
      Greylisting is to SMTP as NAT is to IPv4
    2. Re:I can think of one... by skids · · Score: 2

      There's really not much wrong with DHCP. Mature networks offer contracts with durations to clients and then honor them. This is to prevent the client from having to do expensive processing to deal with having the rug pulled out from under it, as well as a recognition that good networks don't just fall away on a whim. A lot needs to happen when an IP address changes, not the least of which is severing and rebuilding any active connections, which must invoke every application owning a connection. If you need to move clients around frequently, you're probably doing something wrong, but you can always reduce your lease time.

    3. Re:I can think of one... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      DHCP is, unfortunately, still in full glaring view. An address assignment protocol that doesn't let the server force a new address? Who does that?!

      Well, you can use nice features commonly available todays switches together with DHCP:

      - dhcp-snooping -> prevent dhcp replies anywhere but trusted ports (if not avail use dhcp option 82)
      - arp protect (hp), dynamic arp inspection aka "dai" (cisco) -> allow traffic only from the ip-addresses wich were assigned by dhcp.

      You should use simultaneously both. Most manageable proper switches which aren't older than 5 years implement these features.

      About the dhcp-lease length you should understand that dhcp-lease is a contract between client and server without option to recall. You need to wait till contract expires and you don't need to permit extension ie. let the client use same addresse again. It's simple as that.

      If you think how the hell you are going to change ip addresses in the net controlled manner? Son, you should study the use of secondary addresses* in the interface and let clients have time to change the address when contract ends.

      *) edit the router network interface so that you will have simultaneousy the new addresses and old addresses active, this can be achienved by (Cisco IOS -terms) using the secondary addresses, like this:

      current: want to change to 172.16.0.0/24

      interface vlan 700
          ip address 10.10.10.1 255.255.255.0 ....
      !

        temp:

      interface vlan 700
          ip address 172.16.0.1 255.255.255.0
          ip address 10.10.10.1 255.255.255.0 secondary ....
      !

      final stage:

      interface vlan 700
          ip address 172.16.0.1 255.255.255.0 ....
      !

      You get the idea from there, it's not the complete interface config.

      Then later when you observe (use "sh ip arp") that all the clients have changed addresses to subnet then you remove the secondary ip addresses. Very simple and works well. It's the recommended practise.

      And ofcourse if you know, you need to change addresses shorten the dhcp-lease time in good time and you don't have to wait so long before cleaning up the temporary secondary addresses.

  3. Yet my i7... by aaaaaaargh! · · Score: 3, Funny

    ...does not feel much faster than my MacPlus, because operating system and software makers managed to slow everything down again using "advanced software engineering techniques."

    1. Re:Yet my i7... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wouldn't have anything to do with the word count of the bus on that system would it? ;)

    2. Re:Yet my i7... by the_humeister · · Score: 1

      Odd. My Athlon II x4 feels much, much faster than my old 486 DX2. I was running SuSE on the 486 and running Debian 6.0 on my current machine. Running things like GIMP or Povray was way more painful on the 486.

    3. Re:Yet my i7... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I believe this is related to a technical problem known as "selective memory". Fire up that MacPlus sometime and tell me it feels the same as your i7.

    4. Re:Yet my i7... by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I'm guessing that cool toys like "Actual memory protection so that the stability of the system doesn't depend on every last scrap of code behaving itself", "Not having to use a 512x324 display", and "Not costing $2600" probably help dull the pain a bit...

    5. Re:Yet my i7... by aaaaaaargh! · · Score: 1

      Nope, I don't think it's selective memory. Granted, the floppy disk that is awfully slow. But once a program is in memory it feels as snappy as a corresponding app on my i7 machine. Tested with an old version of Word running on Mac OS 6.

      However, perhaps surprisingly, the keyboard of my i7 machine is better than the MacPlus keyboard. That's because I'm using a Unicomp Spacesaver. :)

    6. Re:Yet my i7... by Atzanteol · · Score: 1

      AC has it right. Mod up.

      --
      "Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge"

      - Charles Darwin
    7. Re:Yet my i7... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Moore's Law *: Every 18 months the speed of hardware doubles
      Gates's Law: Every 18 months the speed of software halves

      * Yes, I know. Don't be pedantic.

    8. Re:Yet my i7... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm guessing you're using the fantasticly slow Windows 7 or even worse, Vista.

      Try installing Linux / Ubuntu, or XP. Then you'd see the difference

    9. Re:Yet my i7... by aaaaaaargh! · · Score: 1

      I'm using Ubuntu

    10. Re:Yet my i7... by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      and "Not costing $2600" probably help dull the pain a bit...

      You forgot to account for inflation. $2600 in the 80s is probably worth about $10,000 now, or more.

      Can you imagine spending even $5k for a computer now? Or $2k?

    11. Re:Yet my i7... by rufty_tufty · · Score: 2

      It's actually got worse:
      I have to wait for my satellite receiver/PVR box to boot; I used to be able to turn on my VCR and it instantly responded.
      I press an eject button on a cassette player it spits it out as if it can't serve me fast enough. A DVD player listens to you, thinks about it and maybe it it hasn't crashed slowly trundles out the tray.
      I unlock my mobile phone, wait for the screen to respond, open up the call app, and then a second or so later start to dial. Compare to the old phones.
      It seems that we're slowly being conditioned to accept waiting for technology to think. I don't know why this is acceptable.
      Okay fine I'm being unfair you say?
      Compare the responsiveness of an Amiga to a modern PC.
      Compare using dos to file manager on windows 7. I can type dir and get the result faster than modern PC can do that (on a directory with a few hundred files in, if they are media files it can take a few seconds even f there are only a few dozen of them).
      Are things better/more productive now? Arguably yes, is there enough emphasis on the human is the boss arguably not.

      --
      "The weirdest thing about a mind, is that every answer that you find, is the basis of a brand new cliche" -
    12. Re:Yet my i7... by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      I can imagine it, but I'm not sure what I would do with it beyond multiscreen gaming, which is why I spend big pieces of money like that on things like cars instead of computers. I probably will put a Phenom II X6 into my desktop when they come down to a hundred bucks, though. (From a reputable reseller...)

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    13. Re:Yet my i7... by yarnosh · · Score: 1

      Bullshit. Either you had one blazing fast MacPlus or something is seriously wrong with your current computer. While it may consume an inordinate amount of RAM, my current Core2 Duo based MacBook Pro is snappier than any computer I've ever used in the past (I installed SSD, so that helps). I recall launching games and then going off to get lunch instead of waiting for it to load when I was a kid. Now I complain when there's a 5 second pause between levels in a game. It wasn't really until the P5 processor (100Mhz or so, the one before the Pentium Pro) that I thought to myself "this is fast enough." Before that, I felt that computers were still pretty clunky.

      I think you may not remember correctly how slow computers ued to be because, at the time, it was state of the art. Your expectations keep changing with the state of the art.

    14. Re:Yet my i7... by Skuld-Chan · · Score: 1

      Seriously? I had a Mac Plus - someone who purchased opted not to have a hdd or more than 512 megabytes of ram and the machine was a serious PITA to use. My Dell Core i5 is a dream :).

      Swapping floppies reminds me of those videos of a swichboard operator trying to connect a call.

    15. Re:Yet my i7... by zach_the_lizard · · Score: 1

      Depending on which inflation numbers you use, $2600 in 1980 would be ~$7100 now (according to the BLS).

      --
      SSC
    16. Re:Yet my i7... by Lumpy · · Score: 1

      "Can you imagine spending even $5k for a computer now? Or $2k?"

      Yes I can as well as a lot of others. In the pro world we do that a lot.

      My last video editor cost me $5000.00 for just the computer.
      The laptop I just bought for my field tech cost $3500.00 and It's a dual core i3 (Panasonic Toughbook)

      If you look outside the world of really low end consumer, Most of us that use computers for a living actually pay those prices.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    17. Re:Yet my i7... by fast+turtle · · Score: 1

      Yes I can imagine spending over $5k for a computer. So far, my next system budget has reached $3k in just hardware. Add in Software and it's easily pushing north of $8k.

      The big question, is why you seem so surprised that a high end system can easiy pass $2k. Hell when the IBM PC came out, it would easily cost $5k with all the options and I know damn well what our TRS80 workstation setup cost. That easily pushed $3k between software and hardware. We even had a massive 15M external Winchester Disk for it that cost over $1.5k by itself. The funny thing is our old Dot Matrix Line Printer still works though I need to find a manual to reconfigure the damn thing for use on one of our older computers (HP Pavilion w/700MHz Celeron - WinMe).

      --
      Mod me up/Mod me down: I wont frown as I've no crown
    18. Re:Yet my i7... by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      But once a program is in memory it feels as snappy as a corresponding app on my i7 machine

      'A program' being the operative word. Now how about loading a word processor and a spreadsheet and pasting some figures from one into the other. The Mac Plus still feeling fast? How about running the spell checker on a long document. Still feeling fast? And giving good suggestions? What about editing a colour photograph? Oh, the Mac Plus only had a 1-bit black-and-white display, and didn't support more than 4MB of RAM, so couldn't load a photograph into memory at all.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    19. Re:Yet my i7... by DrgnDancer · · Score: 1

      My receiver/PVR stores perfect high definition copies of about 60 hours worth of TV for me and allows me to fast forward, pause, or even rewind live TV. By contrast my old VCR could store maybe 6 hours on a tape, if I recorded poor quality, was limited to standard def, required me to remember to change tapes out to avoid overwriting, couldn't do squat with live TV, wouldn't record one thing while I watch another, couldn't skip between programs without a manual rewind/FF (talk about waiting on technology), and the tapes were degraded every time I used them (either to watch or to record). I'm willing to accept a three second boot delay.

      A cassette player vs a DVD has most of the same disadvantages (lower quality, degrading media, etc). Also DVD players are not much slower to boot or eject than VCRs (had you used Blue Ray you might have had a small point, but again, huge jumps in quality are worth a few seconds)

      The fact that you *can* lock your mobile phone (you don't have to) is a feature, not a problem. If you want to just open up a phone and start dialing like an "old phone", get an old style flip phone. They still make them. The reason you have to open the phone app to dial is that you chose to get a smart or feature phone. In order to accommodate the potentially dozens or hundreds of other apps your phone has on it you have to click the phone app to dial. Your choice: convenience of being able to pull out your phone and instantly start dialing? or convenience of having a small general purpose computer in your pocket?

      OK, I'll compare the responsiveness of a modern computer to an Amiga, only I want to be able to run a web browser with (counts quickly) 25 tabs open, while Skype, an instant messenger, and my e-mail client are all sitting open waiting for people to contact me, a PDF viewer is showing the Red Hat cert I just opened up to apply for a job, a word processor is open with my resume (for the same reason), and just for kicks I want to be playing Mahjong in another backgrounded window. Of course, I want all of this to be happening on a screen with sufficient resolution that I can keep track of all those things easily, preferably dual monitors at 1600x1200 or better. Of course your Amiga can't do half that and trying to do the other half all at once would probably slow it to a crawl. But you're right, single program responsiveness is much more important. Of course if you just open one program on your modern PC it'll probably fly like an eagle.

      You almost have a point with the file access stuff... or you would if not for the fact that every modern operating system comes with a terminal of some sort that allows you to deal with large directories and such exactly like you did in the old days. You can even keyboard shortcut that shit so that it doesn't require clicking around to get to it. Plus with a modern terminal program in a windowed environment you can have all that stuff I was talking about before open, while using PowerShell or Gnome-Terminal, and get the full benefits of things like copy/cut/paste, hyperlinking, multiple open terminals, and GUI tools as backups in case you can't remember some syntax.

      --
      I don't need a million points of light, just two points of multi-mode fiber and a 10 Gig-E router.
    20. Re:Yet my i7... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't think any Mac Plus had 512M of ram - more like 512K (and that was the fat mac). Even the hard disk was only something like 20 or 40MB, IIRC.

    21. Re:Yet my i7... by rufty_tufty · · Score: 1

      Way to miss my point.
      "Are things better/more productive now? Arguably yes"
      You spent an entire post saying what I just said.
      My point was that while the total experience might have improved and have a much higher specification the fundamental user experience has gone from "press a button, instant response", to "press a button, wait, possible response if it hasn't crashed". The response might be in higher resolution and from a larger library and able to do all these things on a single device but it's a shift from the human is the boss to me asking a device to do something and it doing it when it damn well pleases. If software had halved in speed while hardware doubled in speed then we wouldn't see this. Bear in mind that in many systems discussed above it's the hardware that's doing the heavy lifting of the increased graphics processing, but i digress.
      The point is if this trend carries on then it's not just going to be VHS faster than DVD faster than blue ray,two or three generations on just how long are we going to have to wait to do anything. It can't go on getting slower forever surely? Hopefully we can agree this is a trend that exists and it has to stop. I don't see any reason why it can't stop and won't stop as soon as it gets to be a problem noticed by more people, but if people are being trained to expect crap because the crap is in high definition then this is not a good thing in my books.

      --
      "The weirdest thing about a mind, is that every answer that you find, is the basis of a brand new cliche" -
    22. Re:Yet my i7... by DrgnDancer · · Score: 1

      But they're not any slower for doing equivalent things. You can have an old style phone that you just dial if you want to, but you want to have a smart phone. You can have a terminal program instead of a graphical file browser, but you want to have a graphical file browser. You could make your modern PC respond way faster by only using a single program at a time, but you want to have lots of stuff open so you can conveniently switch tasks. You're choosing to do thing the slightly slower way becasue they are often the more convenient way. Oh by the way, while some of these things do add wait times in at some level, many of them also save immeasurable time overall.

      Which is going to cost you more time over the course of a year: waiting 10-15 seconds for your PVR to boot on the very rare occasion that you need to reboot it? Or dealing with tapes from the VCR? You gotta find the tape with the show you want, fast forward or rewind it to the part of the tape that hold the particular show you want to watch, all of that took time (often a lot of time for the queuing part) that you're ignoring becasue a VCR turned on instantly and responded instantly to an eject command.

      Which will take up more time overall: Word taking a few extra seconds to load? Or having to load Word every time you need it becasue you lack the resources to keep it open and backgrounded all the time?

      Which will take you more time: Having to click the phone app to dial the cell phone, or having to hunt down a computer when you want to check something really quick on the Internet?

      --
      I don't need a million points of light, just two points of multi-mode fiber and a 10 Gig-E router.
    23. Re:Yet my i7... by Jonner · · Score: 1

      ...does not feel much faster than my MacPlus, because operating system and software makers managed to slow everything down again using "advanced software engineering techniques."

      How long did it take to transfer a 1MiB file from a LAN file server to your MacPlus? How fast local applications "feel" has nothing to do with Ethernet.

    24. Re:Yet my i7... by WuphonsReach · · Score: 1

      Can you imagine spending even $5k for a computer now? Or $2k?

      Yes - business grade laptops start at $2k and typically end up closer to $3k. Which usually means a 4 or 5 year warranty, hardware that works (because warranty support is expensive for the manufacturer), and hardware that will generally last 5-8 years.

      Gaming desktops are generally $300 for the SSD drive (or a pair of 10k RPM drives), $150 for the motherboard, $150 for the case and PSU, $200 CPU, $200 video card, $100 RAM. Plus another $150 for the OS license and $150 for misc and sundry parts. Add a $200 monitor on there plus shipping fees and you are up around $2000 for a very good, but still moderately cost-efficient rig. Or you can settle for 20% less performance and do it for about $1200 in total.

      Business desktops, OTOH, can generally be done for about $500 in hardware (maybe $450) plus OS / software licenses.

      --
      Wolde you bothe eate your cake, and have your cake?
    25. Re:Yet my i7... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The Mac Plus came after the fat Mac (512K) which came after the original Mac (128K).

      The Mac Plus came with either 512K or 1M RAM standard, and could hold up to 4M, though that much memory at the time was very expensive. By the time memory prices dropped sufficiently that putting 4M into a Mac Plus was affordable, there were better computers available, both Mac and PC.

    26. Re:Yet my i7... by idontgno · · Score: 1

      I wouldn't try to ride very far on the "off-topic" high horse this time. TFA (quoted in the summary) specifically drew comparison between the Moore's-Law-driven increase in computer capability and the less impressive increase in network speed. So, to borrow the hairy courtroom drama cliche, the article "opened that door" of the subject of system performance changes over time, so the court will allow it. Objection overridden.

      --
      Welcome to the Panopticon. Used to be a prison, now it's your home.
    27. Re:Yet my i7... by eqisow · · Score: 1

      I believe he means running the software of the day on each machine, not running modern software on ancient machines.

    28. Re:Yet my i7... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Odd. My Athlon II x4 feels much, much faster than my old 486 DX2. I was running SuSE on the 486 and running Debian 6.0 on my current machine. Running things like GIMP or Povray was way more painful on the 486.

      The 486dx2 was ancient by the time Gimp and Povray came out. Running them on a 486 would be like running Gnome3 and Firefox on a Duron with 256MB RAM. This contributes to GP's point that software is getting slower as it gains features.

    29. Re:Yet my i7... by Hadlock · · Score: 2

      Also, the Mac Plus (along with any mac running system 1-6) was running an OS coded entirely in assembly. I suspect Win7 would run dramatically faster in assembly, as well!

      --
      moox. for a new generation.
    30. Re:Yet my i7... by The+Dawn+Of+Time · · Score: 1

      Nobody forces you to run modern software. You're welcome to continue using applications from the 80s. You might miss a lot of the advancement we have made for you, but at least your computer will sit there idling quickly enough for you.

    31. Re:Yet my i7... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You clearly have not used a Mac Plus lately. I have a Mac SE (basically the Plus with ADB) and it is horribly, horribly slow running OS 6 for simple tasks that take no time at all on a modern computer (like re-drawing a chart or printing).

      Try doing what I do regularly (run WoW in a window, while playing back HD YouTube videos, while browsing the web) on a computer from 2004.

      Everyone who says this either has a screwed-up modern computer or very selective memory. My self-built i7-2600 box with an SSD and 16GB of memory is *never* slow. And while that may be a "high-end" computer, it was under $1500 which makes it much cheaper than most of the computers I have ever owned, and that's not even counting inflation.

    32. Re:Yet my i7... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's a MacPro, so he doesn't get that "Not costing $2600" bit. :-(
         

    33. Re:Yet my i7... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But they're not any slower for doing equivalent things.

      They aren't doing equivalent things but that's no justification for noticeable boot times on a dedicated-purpose embedded system. Modern Macs have 10-15 second boot times out of the box, and that's a fully general purpose desktop OS which has to handle any random app the user chooses to run. A PVR? It has to do one thing - run the PVR application. Yes, there's probably a general purpose OS underneath (often Linux), but there are always ways to improve boot time when you're only using a tiny fraction of the OS's functionality, especially when the hardware is far more uniform than on a desktop system.

      Stop making excuses for bad, lazy implementations.

    34. Re:Yet my i7... by dkf · · Score: 1

      Can you imagine spending even $5k for a computer now? Or $2k?

      Yes. How many racks does your computer fill?

      --
      "Little does he know, but there is no 'I' in 'Idiot'!"
    35. Re:Yet my i7... by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      Not really, these days a good compiler can usually out-perform hand coded assembler. The compiler knows everything - the structure of the program, the ins and outs of the CPU architecture, how to order instructions to prevent pipeline stalls etc.

      Win7 was performance tuned with the same tools they built to help XBOX developers eek every last drop of performance out of the system. The most important technique is being able to measure the execution time of every module, every subroutine, every library call. That way you can identify where the hold ups are and either optimise them or make them asynchronous so they don't hold up other processing. The gains you get from that are huge and dwarf what hand-optimisation can achieve.

      I still write in assembler for microcontrollers, mainly AVR but also some PIC and ARM. On those systems it is worth doing for speed reasons since 20 MIPS is considered fast. Even so the bulk of the code tends to be in C, especially for AVR and ARM because they can both use the GNU compiler. Unfortunately I am stuck using Hi-Tech C for the PIC which isn't particularly good.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    36. Re:Yet my i7... by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      What you lose in immediate response you more than make up for by having quicker access to information in most cases.

      Your satellite/PVR displays a full electronic programme guide so you don't have to flick through each channel looking for what you want or dig out that listings magazine. On the PVR there are no tapes to change, you can go directly to the recording you want and skip back/forward instantly. More than makes up for a 20s boot time.

      Similarly your DVD player allows you to fast forward or rewind instantly, skip to any chapter or episode etc. Same with CD players.

      Your phone... Well, yeah, the crappy ones can be quite slow, but I think this will get better as they get faster. A touch screen interface for finding the person you want in the phone book by flicking to quickly scroll is faster than pressing the down button once for every contact if you have lots of them. Also on my Android phone I can search for a business via Google and it will tell me which one is nearest and provide a one-click button to call them. Faster and more reliable than directory enquires or the Yellow Pages.

      I used to run the Amiga Support Association. Amigas were fast and responsive, but you were also in big trouble if an app crashed because there was no memory protection. The main entry point for the entire system was at memory address 4, so if a program had a null pointer and wrote a few bytes to it the entire system would go down pretty past.

      As for browsing directories, well if I have a few hundred files it is easier for me to use a GUI than try to page through results in DOS. The GUI gives me an instant search function by simply typing the first few characters of the file name, or if I'm not sure there are handy thumbnails to browse.

      We are a lot more productive these days than we were 10 or 20 years ago.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
  4. Ethernet was over-specced by PhilHibbs · · Score: 5, Insightful

    10Mbps was huge at the time. It was much faster (proportional to need) than any of the other components in a computer system. So it's not really surprising that it hasn't quite kept pace. Many home networks are still 10Mbps, and that's plenty for two or three computers.

    1. Re:Ethernet was over-specced by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Many home networks are still 10Mbps, and that's plenty for two or three computers.

      Copy a 500GB system image to a NAS over 10Mbit and get back to me (should take about 4.7 days). Even 100Mbit is hardly enough for home use. Gigabit is adequate for the next couple years, but will soon be anemic if multiple TB are stored.

    2. Re:Ethernet was over-specced by 0123456 · · Score: 1

      Gigabit is adequate for the next couple years, but will soon be anemic if multiple TB are stored.

      I have gigabit at home but I've been thinking about how nice ten gigabit would be; it's only because the hard drives can't support much more than gigabit speeds when copying between machines that I haven't looked at faster connections yet.

      I can't imagine copying big files at 10Mbps these days.

    3. Re:Ethernet was over-specced by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Original Ethernet was a shared media network, and the "excess" bandwidth enabled a simple but robust multi-access protocol. Now that switched point-to-point "Base-T" is the norm, the same wire protocols can support computers that utilize full wire speed, versus the fraction of 10Mbps that a VAX could use.

    4. Re:Ethernet was over-specced by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Copy a 500GB system image to a NAS over 10Mbit and get back to me (should take about 4.7 days).

      ... because that's a common use case for your average home user?

      Yes, for *you* a half-duplex 10Mbps connection is way too slow. When you're at most sharing a 1.5Mbps DSL internet connection and a printer, 10Mbps is adequate (not that you can actually find much hardware for that anymore) and 100Mbps is good.

    5. Re:Ethernet was over-specced by QBasicer · · Score: 1

      How is 10Mbps plenty? 10Mbps internet connections are becoming more common, I currently pay for 15 but average about 30Mbps. That's only going to keep increasing.

      But that's off topic. 10Mbps was infact really fast, and yes most likely over-specced. 1Gbps is really nice, there's not much need for anything faster to the end machine right now, at least not in the home or small business area. My switch is 1Gbps but has 10Gbps switching fabic, it seems completely sufficient for anything I need now and going forward for at least 4 years.

      --
      x86, oh yes, I'm pro.
    6. Re:Ethernet was over-specced by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 2

      Arguably, it depends on how the ethernet is being used:

      Given the pathetic state of Internet connections, 10Mb ethernet would barely be noticed by a substantial proportion of households in the capacity of a basic internet connection sharing, possibly with a light side of network printing, mechanism. Heck, with the nicer contemporary serial chipsets, PPP would probably be enough, if harder to configure...

      For fileserving, even GigE is merely OK. Not actively painful; but only cheap and nasty disks will make internal and networked storage functionally indistinguishable.

      As some kind of 'fabric' that blurs the lines between internal busses and external busses, longer cables will always suffer from latency issues; but Ethernet is painfully inadequate(if a whole hell of a lot cheaper than infiniband or myranet). Since, outside of specialty applications, the software ecosystem for taking multiple computers connected by fast interconnects and treating them as a unified system is Definitely. Not. Fully. Baked. Yet. that one doesn't really hurt it much.

    7. Re:Ethernet was over-specced by gad_zuki! · · Score: 1

      10mbps is about what most people get on wireless-G (real world throughput) and they don't even really notice. Typical home use involves internet usage and the occasional large file transfer. 10mbps is entirely usable for most people.

      I always also thought 650megs for a CD was unusually large at the time. Especially considering that at the time data CDROMs came out we were all still using floppies and the occasional pricey 100meg zip drive you had to carry around because no one else owned one.

    8. Re:Ethernet was over-specced by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm copying .9 TB over wireless at the moment to my NAS. Its taking ages.

      Do I mind, not much really, I am at work and I am not in a hurry. It just rumbles along in the background....

      Hopefully next month it'll be completed, party!

    9. Re:Ethernet was over-specced by NoNonAlphaCharsHere · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I think you're missing the OP's point. When (10Mb) Ethernet was specced, 500GB was more data storage than there was on the planet, and by a lot, not by a little. In a way, 10Mb/s is like the 32-bit IP address thing, it was way-mega overkill at the time, but seems kind of puny today on a global scale, yet still works perfectly adequately on small to medium sized networks.

    10. Re:Ethernet was over-specced by evil_aaronm · · Score: 1

      That's actually part of the "problem": back then, 500GB didn't exist. People stored things on floppies - 1.4MB.

      I'd wager that the biggest change is bloat. Our files were simple text files and easily sent back and forth. Now, even empty Word files would choke an old dial-up line, never mind the graphics, video, and Flash that are part of nearly every modern web page.

    11. Re:Ethernet was over-specced by Guspaz · · Score: 1

      1Gbps is pretty decent, but for a lot of modern file sharing, it's a bottleneck. My disk-based home fileserver can transfer at several times that, and even my desktop's SSD (which can likely be had for $200-300 today) can double that.

      Do I *need* to be able to copy files at 250MB/s or 500MB/s instead of 125MB/s? No, but it's just as hard to argue that I need 1 Gbps instead of 100 Mbps. Point is, 1 Gbps is a bottleneck for an increasingly large number of consumers now, not 4 years from now.

    12. Re:Ethernet was over-specced by AmazinglySmooth · · Score: 1

      10Mbps was shared bandwidth. If you divide that among 100 users, the effective speed drops quickly. Plus, there are collisions and retries. If a shared Ethernet network had too many users, no one could communicate. It wasn't until switches turned the shared network into a star configuration, that 10Mbps was really achieved.

    13. Re:Ethernet was over-specced by Guspaz · · Score: 1

      650 meg CDs were unusually large. Heck, my first computer with a 2x CD-ROM drive had a 160MB hard disk. But one of the wonderful things about such an enormous capacity media is that it suddenly enabled a huge range of things that weren't possible before.

      Myst? The Seventh Guest? Computer encyclopedias? None of this was really feasible before. Sure, a game like Myst looks bloated today because modern multimedia compression could offer significantly better quality in far less space (Cinepak, how I loathed and loved you), but at the time it enabled computers to access content that you could never have achieved with floppy disks.

    14. Re:Ethernet was over-specced by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      Yep, people are totally forgetting how Ethernet used to be connected: using coaxial cable, not twisted pair. A whole room full of computers could share a single segment of ethernet, with coax running from computer to computer, until it reached the end of the line and needed a terminator. I had a college job in a computer lab in 1992 like this, with something like 30 computers all linked together with a single coax cable. Sometimes something went wrong with one of the network cards or the cable, and the entire network went down, so I had to troubleshoot it by moving the terminator resistor from PC to PC until I found the troublesome connection. Interestingly, none of these PCs (286s) had hard drives; they all network-booted off a single Novell file server.

    15. Re:Ethernet was over-specced by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hmm.. And what do I do with my 105Mbps internet connection? Order another one for the machine across the room so I don't have to go over the 10Mbps ethernet link?

    16. Re:Ethernet was over-specced by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      No 650MB was as much as they could cram in there with the technology of the time (remember, CDs were developed in the 70s/early 80s), and all that space was absolutely necessary.

      The goal of a CD was to achieve high-fidelity sound reproduction in a digital format. This demanded a 44.1kHz sampling rate at 16bits per sample, in stereo, so you could capture the entire human hearing range (up to 20kHz). Back then, there was no data compression technology, so it had to be uncompressed. And finally, they wanted as long a playing time as possible, so people didn't have to flip discs over or have multiple ones. So they arrived at 74 minutes of playing time per disc, which was about the same as two sides of a record. Work out the math, and you get ~650MB.

      These days, with MP3 and Ogg Vorbis, you don't need nearly that much space to store an album, but they didn't have any computing power to speak of back then as would be needed for on-the-fly decompression, plus computers were expensive back then. Having the data uncompressed let them just read it off the disc and feed it straight into a D/A converter and an amplifier, for very simple circuitry.

      CD-ROMs were huge for the time, but they were just a repurposing of existing CD-audio technology that wasn't developed for PCs at all, but for music.

    17. Re:Ethernet was over-specced by sean.peters · · Score: 1

      Copy a 500GB system image to a NAS over 10Mbit and get back to me (should take about 4.7 days).

      How often do people actually do that? I'm not saying it never happens, but seriously. Copying your entire system image is not something most people do all that often.

    18. Re:Ethernet was over-specced by LordLimecat · · Score: 1

      Most common home NAS devices dont come anywhere close to saturating a gbps link, and filesharing off of a standard desktop will hit about 1gbps on top-end mechanicals.

    19. Re:Ethernet was over-specced by yarnosh · · Score: 1

      It is plenty only because the internet connection is the bottleneck. Start doing any LAN transfers and you'll feel the hurt of 10Mbps.

      And who still uses 10Mbps??? 100Mps has been standard for well over a decade. You'd have to be using one seriously old hub.

    20. Re:Ethernet was over-specced by bell.colin · · Score: 1

      Try 10Mbps Full Duplex, It's much faster without the collisions.

    21. Re:Ethernet was over-specced by Lumpy · · Score: 1

      Because we all know home use is all about moving 500GB or larger around from place to place....

      Idiot.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    22. Re:Ethernet was over-specced by Lumpy · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Nope. enjoy the same speeds because 95% of the sites on the internet are connected to a pipe that is far slower than 10mbps.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    23. Re:Ethernet was over-specced by LVSlushdat · · Score: 1

      I move a lot of Virtualbox VM's around between my server, desktop and laptop. Both my desktop and server (Dell Optiplex desktop and Dell PowerEdge server) have gig connections, but old me stuck with an old 10/100 Linksys switch and groaned everytime I needed to move a 20-30GB VM around. So I bought a 10/100/1000 switch, at which time I belatedly realized my then current laptop (a Dell Vostro) only had 10/100... Yikes! I've since ditched the Vostro and gone with a Latitude business-class laptop with 10/100/1000... Nice to finally be in the 21st century...

      --
      THANK YOU, Edward Snowden!! Americans owe you a debt of gratitude (whether they know it or not..)
    24. Re:Ethernet was over-specced by Guspaz · · Score: 1

      Modern 2TB and 3TB mechanical drives can saturate a 1 Gbps connection, not to mention even the cheapest SSDs... You don't need an expensive computer to saturate GigE.

    25. Re:Ethernet was over-specced by darthdavid · · Score: 1

      I still had 486 laptop with a 700 meg hdd in in when we got our first desktop with a CD burner...

    26. Re:Ethernet was over-specced by petermgreen · · Score: 1

      I always also thought 650megs for a CD was unusually large at the time.

      That is because CDs were first and foremost a digital audio format and were later adapted for computer use. Cd quality uncompressed (afaict affordable high ratio audio compression didn't exist back then) audio takes about 10 megabytes per minute (note that audio CDs have less error checking than standard data CDs and hence a slightly higher capacity)

      --
      note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
    27. Re:Ethernet was over-specced by WuphonsReach · · Score: 1

      Worse, coax 10Mbps was a shared medium with collisions out the wazoo. You were lucky if you got 2-3Mbps in a very busy segment due to the collisions and retransmissions.

      --
      Wolde you bothe eate your cake, and have your cake?
    28. Re:Ethernet was over-specced by medoc · · Score: 1

      This is quite wrong. You are forgetting that Ethernet at the time was a shared medium: all workstations on a network segment shared the same coaxial cable, and network saturation was often an issue. This began to change with filtering bridges in the 90s and became a non issue with twisted-pair on switching hub star architectures much later.

    29. Re:Ethernet was over-specced by archen · · Score: 1

      Or you can purposely set the network that way. I have a Vonage router that is screwed up (that replaced the last one which was also screwed up). I've tried multiple ethernet adapters on various computers, wires etc and I kept getting interface errors no matter what I tried. Oddly enough I set it to 10Mbs half duplex and the errors went away and I haven't had a problem since. Currently I don't shuffle much across my own network, but I was surprised that I don't notice any real network degradation. I'll have to set it behind a better router one of these days, but at the moment it works well enough.

    30. Re:Ethernet was over-specced by h4rr4r · · Score: 1

      1.5Mbps DSL? Is this the stoneages? Would netflix work on that?

      25Mbps/25Mbps at my house and thinking about bumping that up.

    31. Re:Ethernet was over-specced by arth1 · · Score: 1

      That's actually part of the "problem": back then, 500GB didn't exist. People stored things on floppies - 1.4MB.

      3.5" floppies started out with 720 kB, at the same time as 5.25" disks became quadruple density and also could hold 720 kB. Before then, they were 360 kB if double-sided, 180 kB if not.

      My first computer used 8" drives, 80 kB per side (manual turn-over). By hacking, you could get it to save an extra 16 kB. That was the year before Ethernet became commercially available.

    32. Re:Ethernet was over-specced by Dahamma · · Score: 1

      10mbps is about what most people get on wireless-G (real world throughput) and they don't even really notice. Typical home use involves internet usage and the occasional large file transfer. 10mbps is entirely usable for most people.

      I always also thought 650megs for a CD was unusually large at the time. Especially considering that at the time data CDROMs came out we were all still using floppies and the occasional pricey 100meg zip drive you had to carry around because no one else owned one.

      The average G throughput is closer to 20Mbps. And 10Mbps is definitely no longer adequate for much home usage, since streaming video is already the highest user of Internet bandwidth in the home, and a significant percentage of home Internet connections these days are faster than 10Mbps. I routinely stream 10Mbps HD VOD rentals while still having enough bandwidth for fast web browsing, music streaming, or even a second HD video stream.

    33. Re:Ethernet was over-specced by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      10mbps is really fast today. Most users don't get more than 3mbps consistently and that is assuming they have ADSL. When most users get on during prime time hours with cable the supposed up to 10 or up to 30mbps connections drop considerably. 3mbps is fast enough. With it you can stream videos live in good quality and downloads don't take that long unless you are doing something unusual like a 4gb ISO. How many users do that though? I can name not even one. I work with consumers every single day and I can tell you there isn't a single one who has ever downloaded more than maybe 1 CD worth of anything. With a 3mbps connection you are looking at a reasonable amount of time to obtain it. Yea- this might download in a few seconds with a fast 100mbps or 1000mbps connection if it were available. However is it worth the price? No. I'd much rather have a consist connection that is fast. And 3mbps is fast. By the way I do have faster options available to me. 10mbps and possibly 25mbps I think although I'd have to go with a business connection.

    34. Re:Ethernet was over-specced by lothos · · Score: 1

      Nope. enjoy the same speeds because 95% of the sites on the internet are connected to a pipe that is far slower than 10mbps.

      I don't think that's correct.

      Every server I've had, going back to the late 90s, has been on a 10mbps or better ethernet connection. My current server is sitting in a datacenter on a 100mbps ethernet drop connected to a combined total of 90GBPS to the backbone.

    35. Re:Ethernet was over-specced by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      10Mbps is still fast. What has changed is the huge amount of data people are trying to cram over networks. I'd love to have network access that fast at home but probably won't for several years. Unless you're downloading big files or using shared drives you probably won't notice that much difference between 10Mbps and 100Mbps at work.

      Also notice that over time 10Mbps may not have changed much however we HAVE changed a lot in other ways. In the past you had shared cables between many computers and using half duplex. Today though we're typically doing point-to-point from computer to a switch and using full duplex. While the actual speed of the wire has not changed the actual bandwidth has increased tremendously.

      I've always thought this was a bit odd actually. LANs are mostly being set up as point-to-point, but we're still using CSMA protocols designed for shared wires rather than protocols more suited for dedicated wires that could increase bandwidth.

    36. Re:Ethernet was over-specced by guspasho · · Score: 1

      "How is 10Mbps plenty? 10Mbps internet connections are becoming more common, I currently pay for 15 but average about 30Mbps. That's only going to keep increasing."

      He's saying that 10Mbps is plenty for many, not all. You can do a lot with 10Mbps, you can even stream video. Maybe not HD video, I don't know. My Internet is less than 5Mbps and I can stream Netflix to two TVs simultaneously, and run torrents and browse the web without lag. For me, 10Mbps would probably be plenty.

      Don't believe the telecom marketing that tells you that 1.5Mbps isn't enough to watch YouTube.

      Btw, what are you doing with your Internet connection that you average 30Mbps?

    37. Re:Ethernet was over-specced by Bitmanhome · · Score: 1

      Actually, the number is closer to 800MB, but computers can only store 650MB due to a second layer of protection.

      Actually actually, the raw number is almost 2GB, but to make that useable, they had to include several layers of encoding and one layer of protection, leaving 800MB of space for audio.

      --
      Not that this wasn't entirely predictable.
    38. Re:Ethernet was over-specced by styrotech · · Score: 1

      Heh, the company I worked at only got their 10base2 LAN installed in 1994. It was just sneaker net before that.

      And a few years later I was trying to solve some strange intermittent hard to pin down network problems for another company. After some crawling around in the ceiling, it turned out that their 10base2 network segment was actually a T shape rather than one single line. I was very surprised that it worked at all.

    39. Re:Ethernet was over-specced by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      At the same place I worked before, there was also 10base2 running throughout the rest of the building, to all the professors' offices. I had to track down some weird intermittent problem in a conference room, and found (the hard way) that there was a ~70V differential between the outer shield of the 10base2 wiring and the electrical ground.

    40. Re:Ethernet was over-specced by gad_zuki! · · Score: 1

      Most people stream from internet sources that are highly compressed and is very much sub 10mbps. Think Neflix, youtube, and hulu. You're looking at 3-5, max.

      Secondly, the average G connection sure as hell isnt 20mbps. In low noise scenarios I can barely get 20-25mbps. Once the SNR gets slightly lower you're in 10-15 territory.

      N changes things, but Joe Average doesn't have N yet. Heck, N in high noise scenarios is just as bad as G.

    41. Re:Ethernet was over-specced by QBasicer · · Score: 1

      I don't generally hit the 30Mbps, except when I'm downloading doing Gentoo updates. It's really nice to have, but I don't really use it to it's full potential right now.

      --
      x86, oh yes, I'm pro.
  5. A: yes. by rbrausse · · Score: 2

    Q: is there any other 30-year-old technology still present in current computers?

    What about SCSI? or RS-232? not as omnipresent as Ethernet but still more or less common. Happy birthday Ethernet, but you are not the only remaining dinosaur...

    1. Re:A: yes. by jo_ham · · Score: 2

      I still use an RS-232 interface daily for the UV spectrometer in the instrument room. I don't even think it goes through a serial/USB converter, unlike the one on the lab microwave reactor.

      There's a lot to be said for simple, well tested interfaces if you don't need massive throughput.

    2. Re:A: yes. by Sponge+Bath · · Score: 1

      300 baud modems? 500 ns memory? Daisy wheel printers?

      All of these (modems, memory, printers) exist in modern computing in faster updated form, just like ethernet.

    3. Re:A: yes. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      VGA? PS/2? Guy must use a Mac.

    4. Re:A: yes. by Canazza · · Score: 2

      the TRS connectors we use for our basic Audio output have been around for about 100 years (the patent on the first design was 1907). The three-plug (red/white/yellow) RCA connector has been around since the 1940s (although that's normally only found on specialised kit).

      S-Video and VGA were 1987, so they don't quite hit the 30 years but they're still pretty old.

      --
      It pays to be obvious, especially if you have a reputation for being subtle.
    5. Re:A: yes. by Lumpy · · Score: 1

      VGA existed before that. 5BNC video was very common the hd15 plug is simply the consumer version.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    6. Re:A: yes. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Fax machines. You can still get a fax card for a computer. I remember going to my dad's office in the late 1970's and watch him sending a Fax to his central office. The fax machine in our accounting department still uses a 14.4kps modem.

      Why didn't fax machine manufacturers ever upgrade the modems to 56k?

    7. Re:A: yes. by Skal+Tura · · Score: 1

      the wheel wins every one of them, and bashing tools predate even that!

    8. Re:A: yes. by Guspaz · · Score: 1

      It can still be hard or expensive to use such things.

      I recently needed an RS-232 connection to talk to the serial console of my PandaBoard. I saw that the local The Source store claimed to have four USB adapters for $20 a pop, but when I showed up they had none. The only other store within a few blocks I could find wanted $70 for theirs, which was a bit silly.

      In the end, I had to borrow a friend's ancient AMD K6 laptop (K6, no bloody 2 or 3), running Mandrake 8, which had a serial port. Luckily, the laptop had a PCMCIA ethernet card, enabling me to use it as an enormous serial-to-ethernet adapter.

    9. Re:A: yes. by pz · · Score: 1

      Mice are essentially the same age as Ethernet, and invented in the same place.

      I use a CRT almost daily. That technology (raster scanning CRTs, that is) are approximately as old as Television (vector based are somewhat older).

      Keyboards hark back to teletypes, pre-dating Ethernet and all that networking jazz.

      Heck, ASCII. According to Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ASCII) it was first standardized in 1963, with work starting on the standard in 1960. That would be 50 years ago. Anyone reading this is using ASCII.

      --

      Put my fist through my alarm clock with its ding-dong death inside my ear. - The Blackjacks.
    10. Re:A: yes. by Bob+the+Super+Hamste · · Score: 1

      RS-232 is still common in time and frequency devices.

      --
      Time to offend someone
    11. Re:A: yes. by History's+Coming+To · · Score: 2

      I think British Telecom might still be using them. We've been on a 20Kb/s connection for the last week. It's called "broadband" apparently. The guy on the phone said we could speed things up by taking out the ethernet cable altogether, but then the computer stopped talking to the telephone and he sounded surprised. Seriously, I'd LOVE to have a 1Mb/s connection today, let alone a 1Gb/s.

      --
      Please consider this account deleted, I just can't be bothered with the spam anymore.
    12. Re:A: yes. by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      Not really, except maybe the memory. The one that does (modems) is rarely used.

      I haven't used a telephone modem in ages. I suppose some laptops still come with them, but no one uses them, as landlines have pretty much gone the way of the dinosaur. I can't even remember the last time I've seen a real landline phone or outlet. Even at places with wired phones (hotels, offices), they're all digital now, connected to some sort of PBX or similar, not POTS. You can't unplug the phone and plug in your modem and expect it to work.

      Daisy-wheel printers are unquestionably gone. There's no "faster, updated form" at all. Modern ink-jet and laser printers bear zero resemblence to daisy-wheel printers, or even dot-matrix printers. The only thing they have in common is that they put ink on a page of paper, but the fundamental technologies they use are totally different. This is like saying an airplane is a "faster, updated form" of a hot-air balloon.

      You might be right about the memory, however, as I believe the fundamental principle of charging capacitors to store data hasn't changed.

    13. Re:A: yes. by NoNonAlphaCharsHere · · Score: 1

      Q: is there any other 30-year-old technology still present in current computers?

      Sigh. Kids these days.

      32-bit IP adresses, TCP-IP, the whole Berkeley stack
      FAT-32
      The x86 Instruction set*
      Winchester hard-disc drives
      SCSI*
      CRTs
      Switching power supplies
      Dynamic RAM
      Getting bored now

      You get the idea. More things are the same (with minor evolutionary improvements) than are different.


      * OK, yes, they've been updated/added to, but the basic technology is unchanged.

    14. Re:A: yes. by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      Why didn't fax machine manufacturers ever upgrade the modems to 56k?

      Why should they? Stupid offices keep buying them, so why change? It's only dinosaur industries that even use them: lawyers and real estate agents, and even there they're dying out quickly.

    15. Re:A: yes. by NicknamesAreStupid · · Score: 1

      The power network, 60Hz at 120VAC, it has been around much longer.

    16. Re:A: yes. by uncanny · · Score: 1

      Funny thing is, we still use dot matrix printers where i work for log keeping purposes. When i first started this job i couldn't believe it. I thought, didn't these things die out in the 90's? But they still make them too, and slow as ever!

    17. Re:A: yes. by Jeng · · Score: 1

      Because they sell fax machines with internet capabilities.

      Why sell a cheapo win/fax modem, when you can sell a dual line fax machine that will work with a paperless office system.

      --
      Don't know something? Look it up. Still don't know? Then ask.
    18. Re:A: yes. by rbrausse · · Score: 1

      Anyone reading this is using ASCII.

      unfortunately. The single most stupid thing on Slashdot* is the missing UTF-8 support.

      kreuzdämlich & scheiße if you often use non-ASCII-characters...

      *) excluding content problems like TFS, TFA, TFC, ... :)

    19. Re:A: yes. by Lumpy · · Score: 1

      SCSI is common as hell in servers although that is getting displaced.
      RS232 is highly common in the pro world and will stay that way. I just bought a $4500.00 HD document camera to mount in the ceiling that has HDMI out... it's controlled via..... RS232.

      high end TV's and projectors are controlled via rs232.

      It's just fallen out of favor for home use.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    20. Re:A: yes. by Ferzerp · · Score: 1

      There are many reasons fax machines aren't faster.

      More to the point of your question, you much now turn in your geek card for not knowing that 56k pots pots is not possible. One side must be digital all the way through.

    21. Re:A: yes. by Wovel · · Score: 1

      But I can take an original 10 Mbps Ethernet device and plug it into a computer today, and it will work. That is not true of anything else on your list. (except software and/or protocols, but that does not count).

      While most (certainly no all) PC mbs include a via port still, that technology does jot seem to quite reach the 30 year mark.

    22. Re:A: yes. by Rising+Ape · · Score: 1

      It's an English language website though, so ASCII isn't that limiting.

    23. Re:A: yes. by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 1

      VGA? PS/2? Guy must use a Mac.

      Huh? Have you even looked at a Mac in the last, say, five or ten years? Heck, even my 2003 G4 Powerbook (my first Mac, after being a PC user for about 15 years) had a DVI connector, unlike most PC laptops at the time.

      And what Mac ever used a PS/2 connector?

      --
      #DeleteChrome
    24. Re:A: yes. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      10Mbps comes standard with all computers today, and it is the same shape and form as it was 30 years ago. Modems, memory and printers are not.

    25. Re:A: yes. by rbrausse · · Score: 1

      so the symbol for pound sterling isn't part of the English language world?

      (but it seems my blurb came to late: at least in the preview £ is displayed correctly. did I miss a /. software update?)

    26. Re:A: yes. by realityimpaired · · Score: 1

      To maintain compatibility with older 9600 baud fax machines.

      Though most fax machines you can buy these days are 33,600. There's technical limits for why it can't be faster than that which another user pointed out, but I'll also point out that there isn't much point in upgrading beyond 33,600 anyway because anything you can fax you can also scan and e-mail.

    27. Re:A: yes. by painandgreed · · Score: 1

      What about SCSI? or RS-232? not as omnipresent as Ethernet but still more or less common. Happy birthday Ethernet, but you are not the only remaining dinosaur...

      I don't think you'll find much SCSI I devices out there anymore. They've gone through more changes than ethernet. RS-232 devices are getting rarer. They might still be on most computers, but have been dropped off of lots of laptops. The server guys at my work are having to use old 800 MHz laptops to work on the servers because no newer laptops we've purchased have RS-232 ports.

    28. Re:A: yes. by Myopic · · Score: 1

      The answer is even easier than that.

      Spinning-disk hard drives are still with us.
      Random-access memory is still with us.
      Keyboards are still with us.
      UNIX is still with us.
      Hierarchical filesystems are still with us.

    29. Re:A: yes. by WuphonsReach · · Score: 1

      But I can take an original 10 Mbps Ethernet device and plug it into a computer today, and it will work. That is not true of anything else on your list. (except software and/or protocols, but that does not count).

      Which flavor of 10Mbps Ethernet? The old 10Base2 with the coaxial cabling? or the modern twisted-pair 10BaseT?

      (And 10Base2 was around earlier then 10BaseT, by at least 2-3 years. We were using 10Base2 in 1987, 10BaseT wasn't until 1990-1992.)

      --
      Wolde you bothe eate your cake, and have your cake?
    30. Re:A: yes. by Canazza · · Score: 1

      Yeah, but I don't have a wheel in my PC. It's all heatsinks

      --
      It pays to be obvious, especially if you have a reputation for being subtle.
    31. Re:A: yes. by rubycodez · · Score: 1

      serious servers and big iron have them for their management cards, as do routers. Had to get a usb to rs232 for my laptop for those reasons

    32. Re:A: yes. by Dadoo · · Score: 1

      VGA? PS/2?

      Umm... Hate to tell you this, but Ethernet was old, by the time those technologies came out.

      --
      Sit, Ubuntu, sit. Good dog.
    33. Re:A: yes. by Dadoo · · Score: 1

      RS-232 devices are getting rarer.

      Don't get me wrong: I'm a big RS-232 guy. It did a good job on what it was designed for, but I'd like to see it get replaced with something more modern - maybe even Ethernet-based.

      What makes RS-232 popular (especially for embedded stuff) is the programming simplicity. You stuff a byte into a memory location (or I/O port) and it gets sent to the display. How hard would it be to make a chip that has a UART programming interface, with Ethernet hardware, underneath. When you write that byte to the memory location, it gets broadcast to the network. Of course, it would have to be a private network for security reasons, but there are so many old 10Mb switches lying around, not being used, it shouldn't be a problem.

      --
      Sit, Ubuntu, sit. Good dog.
    34. Re:A: yes. by ebh · · Score: 1

      They're also common in situations where you're using multi-part forms ("Press hard, you're making four copies"). They're about the only impact printers left in common use, since they're much faster than daisy-wheel printers, and much easier to program for arbitrary forms. With daisy-wheel, you're a slave to the available point sizes of the wheel.

      And if you're wondering why businesses don't just print the four copies on a laser printer, it's because in a lot of cases (e.g. freight delivery), people's signatures also have to be on more than one copy, and it's not good customer service (or security) to make people sign multiple times.

    35. Re:A: yes. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You can plug an rj45 cable into a 10mbs port, or a 1000mbs port. Try putting your inkjet cartridge in the daisy wheel printer. Modems, not many computers today have one. Memory yes.

    36. Re:A: yes. by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      SCSI command protocols are alive and well in your USB mass storage drives and ATAPI drives. Firewire is essentially a serial SCSI. RS-232 is ubiquitous, though it's not often on end consumer devices. FTDI makes a good business selling USB->serial chips.

    37. Re:A: yes. by mcl630 · · Score: 1

      What makes RS-232 popular (especially for embedded stuff) is the programming simplicity. You stuff a byte into a memory location (or I/O port) and it gets sent to the display. How hard would it be to make a chip that has a UART programming interface, with Ethernet hardware, underneath. When you write that byte to the memory location, it gets broadcast to the network. Of course, it would have to be a private network for security reasons, but there are so many old 10Mb switches lying around, not being used, it shouldn't be a problem.

      You need a network stack for that (ie TCP/IP). USB would be a simpler choice for replacing RS-232 in embedded systems without much processing power or storage space for firmware.

    38. Re:A: yes. by guspasho · · Score: 1

      x86 architecture is over 30 years old too. Tried and true.

    39. Re:A: yes. by sloth+jr · · Score: 1

      In fact, it does look that way. Chrome shows character encoding as UTF-8.

    40. Re:A: yes. by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      One of the fundamental problems both suggestions have omitted is that of frequency. You can run RS-232 for data transfer at low baud rates on horrendously underpowered chips, however if you have a microcontroller or other embedded piece the signaling requires typically as 12MHz clock frequency for the USB transfers. Having a separate USB clock can help but requires dedicated hardware which increases the cost.

      That's not to say RS-232 is perfect. Getting faster datarates is difficult without running into the same problems as above, but the key thing is that it is scalable.

    41. Re:A: yes. by hamburgler007 · · Score: 1

      I still rs232 for the joypad in my mame arcade cabinet.

    42. Re:A: yes. by toddestan · · Score: 1

      Both of those debuted with the IBM PS/2 which came out in 1987, which makes them around 24 years old.

    43. Re:A: yes. by Dadoo · · Score: 1

      You need a network stack for that (ie TCP/IP)

      No, just use raw Ethernet packets. They don't need to be routable.

      --
      Sit, Ubuntu, sit. Good dog.
    44. Re:A: yes. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      hmmm.... Hammer?

      hammer can beat this (literally), and..
      you have to have some tools to make first wheel.

    45. Re:A: yes. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't get me wrong: I'm a big RS-232 guy. It did a good job on what it was designed for, but I'd like to see it get replaced with something more modern - maybe even Ethernet-based.

      What makes RS-232 popular (especially for embedded stuff) is the programming simplicity. You stuff a byte into a memory location (or I/O port) and it gets sent to the display. How hard would it be to make a chip that has a UART programming interface, with Ethernet hardware, underneath.

      That programming simplicity is mirrored in hardware simplicity. What you want is the equivalent of a terminal server, and that's a lot more complex than the hardware needed to do "take the byte the CPU just wrote to my TX register, and shift it out to the wire" (and the reverse process for RX).

  6. 30-year-old technology still present... by Marc_Hawke · · Score: 1

    Keyboards? The plug on the end changed...the keys stayed the same.

    --
    --Welcome to the Realm of the Hawke--
    1. Re:30-year-old technology still present... by betterunixthanunix · · Score: 1

      And some people (like me) use mechanically actuated keyboards, which still click just like the ones from 30 years ago.

      --
      Palm trees and 8
    2. Re:30-year-old technology still present... by omkhar · · Score: 1

      TCP/IP
      FTP
      The Internet
      email

    3. Re:30-year-old technology still present... by f8l_0e · · Score: 1

      Let me save the rest of you a bunch of time. "Nothing compares to my Model M..." "I spent 300 dollars on my Cherry and it is still worth every penny..." Ad naseum, ad infinitum. btw: I miss my PS/2 selectric touch keyboard.

    4. Re:30-year-old technology still present... by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 1

      And you'd be surprised how well the older flavors have hung on: AT is a simple mechanical adapter away from working with PS/2, and there are plenty of desktops on the shelves today with PS/2 ports, and laptops on the shelves that, while the internal wiring is purely proprietary, still have PS/2 mice and keyboards at a protocol level.(even ADB made a surprisingly late last stand in laptops, only dying for good in 2005...)

    5. Re:30-year-old technology still present... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Binary.

    6. Re:30-year-old technology still present... by skids · · Score: 1

      the keys stayed the same

      Unless you're old enough to remember back when they had 83 or 84 keys.

    7. Re:30-year-old technology still present... by antifoidulus · · Score: 1

      Those keyboards remain popular in Japan, and annoy the ever loving shit out of me. Having to listen to an office full of people banging away on those things all day just drives me batshit insane.

    8. Re:30-year-old technology still present... by Dachannien · · Score: 1

      The plug on the end changed...the keys stayed the same.

      What's this one with the wavy squares do?

    9. Re:30-year-old technology still present... by Hatta · · Score: 1

      Also, RS-232. My latest motherboard didn't come with a port, but there's a header on the motherboard. A simple adapter and I can communicate directly with just about any computer from the last 30 years.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    10. Re:30-year-old technology still present... by rubycodez · · Score: 1

      in workplace I only find it annoying if I also don't get one

    11. Re:30-year-old technology still present... by CompMD · · Score: 1

      Not entirely. I have a Dell Precision workstation with a Core2 Quad and it still has PS/2 ports. I'm happily using a 26 year old IBM Model M keyboard with it.

  7. 10 Mbps ought to be good enough for anybody by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Besides, most people will have rich content like Encarta delivered on CD-ROMs at home, or from the file server at the office using LAN Manager. They'll have information at their fingertips, that's the road ahead.

    1. Re:10 Mbps ought to be good enough for anybody by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I never have read that book. I assume by now it's pointless, except perhaps for a chuckle.

  8. Get off my lawn! by Infiniti2000 · · Score: 1

    It's hard to believe, but how many of you fuckers were even born yet in the early 1980s?!

    1. Re:Get off my lawn! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ... So?

    2. Re:Get off my lawn! by asto21 · · Score: 1

      That only works with a sufficiently small UID

    3. Re:Get off my lawn! by es330td · · Score: 2

      Not only had I been born, I had written a Basic program to generate D&D character stats by 1980. Yes, my PUBLIC elementary school had some forward thinking administrators.

    4. Re:Get off my lawn! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Mine, too, but by 1980 I'd written an entire RPG in Basic. On a mainframe no less.

    5. Re:Get off my lawn! by quenda · · Score: 1

      Sorry, gotta ask: I've seen that "get off my lawn" so many times on slashdot, but never anywhere else - until recently I saw Clint do it in Gran Torino.
      Is that where the expression was popularised?

      And weren't those early 80's ethernets all running on coaxial 50-ohm loops with BNC connectors? hardly something you can easily use today.
      No, wait it was worse: "thick ethernet" where you punched a hole in the cable to join a node on.
      If we are going to count non-physical standards that are that old, the list is long, including ASCII.

      Now Get Off My Lawn!

    6. Re:Get off my lawn! by kbolino · · Score: 1

      I'll do my best to make myself have been born earlier. It hasn't worked yet, but I'll keep trying.

    7. Re:Get off my lawn! by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 1

      Not only had I been born, I had written a Basic program to generate D&D character stats by 1980. Yes, my PUBLIC elementary school had some forward thinking administrators.

      Ha - in 1980 I was writing FORTRAN code on a DEC PDP 11/70... as a college student.

      And playing D&D in the student union.

      Somewhere I may still have those old FORTRAN programs, saved on paper tape.

      --
      #DeleteChrome
    8. Re:Get off my lawn! by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 1

      Sorry, gotta ask: I've seen that "get off my lawn" so many times on slashdot, but never anywhere else - until recently I saw Clint do it in Gran Torino.
      Is that where the expression was popularised?

      No, it's existed as a joke/stereotype regarding old people since I've been a kid (meaning the 1960s/1970s), and probably far longer.

      And I remember being told - by old people - to "get off my lawn" back then. So it's only fair that I get to say it to you young'uns now.

      --
      #DeleteChrome
    9. Re:Get off my lawn! by geek · · Score: 1

      How about mine?

    10. Re:Get off my lawn! by RCGodward · · Score: 1

      And I'd written an FPS using punch cards, and I had to carry them to the server room in bare feet uphill both ways...

    11. Re:Get off my lawn! by rrohbeck · · Score: 1

      My public high school had a CS class where we had access to a Prime 300 at the local college and wrote pretty decent FORTRAN programs after two years. That was in the mid 70s.
      I crashed Primos twice by trying out a few things. Once it caused a whole roll of paper to be used up over night by an endless loop printing error messages on the teletype console.
      Good times.

    12. Re:Get off my lawn! by JayAEU · · Score: 1

      You can judge from lower userID that I'm a fair bit older than you... :)

    13. Re:Get off my lawn! by WuphonsReach · · Score: 1

      Sorry, gotta ask: I've seen that "get off my lawn" so many times on slashdot, but never anywhere else - until recently I saw Clint do it in Gran Torino. Is that where the expression was popularised?

      No, it's been around for at least 20-30 years.

      If you grew up in the suburbs/towns in the 70s/80s, a popular pastime was to make your lawn neatly trimmed, nice and green. Naturally, for the older folks, after spending all that time and effort - having a bunch of young hoodlums come tromping over your nicely manicured lawn would be a bit upsetting.

      Especially since you were probably sitting out front on your favorite rocking chair enjoying a cool breeze.

      --
      Wolde you bothe eate your cake, and have your cake?
    14. Re:Get off my lawn! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sure, I'm 51 :)

      First touch real ethernet (10Base2) 1987 summer. I did already installations of Nokia NetNet from 1985 summer. NetNet was not real ethernet, it was pre standard and used RG-59 cabling, it's own transmitters where the drop cable was pulled to a sync serial line back of the system. Therefore the speed was only 512kbps, which was slow but the NetNet OS was very advanced with multitasking (it was based on iRMX). Had diskless workstations remote booting over the net, remote shared printers, quick-apps like TSR's but earlier than those appeared on IMB-PC compatibe -land, soft programmable function and special softkeys for the use of applications.

      At that time it was mostly serial terminal's and serial cabling. Ethernet was coming and helping a lot with terminal servers from Digital and Bridge etc. which made life lot easier and you could reach minicomputers (mostly vaxen running BSD or VMS, Univac was already on it's way out withing couple of years) remotely not just sitting next door from it. The big problem was that ethernet was really expensive in the beginning, especially those terminal servers at that time. Just for a reference the 3Com first ethernet cards, 3c501 costed more C64 and 3c505, a long ISA-server card was almost half the price of IBM-PC. And you needed to buy the networking software with appropriate licenses top of that. And the cabling, even the 10Base2 cabling with proper suhner t-connectors and terminators were expensive. Lot more expensive than just Cannon D-connectors you usually needed for running terminal servers cabling.

      In a way I sometime long for those times. Computers were mostly in hands of professionals. Consumerization had not begun. Systems were slower and thus we had more time to think what's up next.

    15. Re:Get off my lawn! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's because I TAUGHT your elementary school administrators when they were kids, you little upstart brat!

    16. Re:Get off my lawn! by sharkey · · Score: 1

      Kids today. No respect.

      --

      --
      "Outlook not so good." That magic 8-ball knows everything! I'll ask about Exchange Server next.
  9. Unusable? by tapspace · · Score: 1

    10Mbps is not an entirely unusable speed? That's .... Fast Ethernet!

    1. Re:Unusable? by egamma · · Score: 1

      10Mbps is not an entirely unusable speed? That's .... Fast Ethernet!

      10Mbps is Ethernet, 100Mbps is Fast Ethernet.

    2. Re:Unusable? by Baloroth · · Score: 1

      So what's 10Gbps? Ludicrous speed Ethernet?

      --
      "None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license." --John Milton
    3. Re:Unusable? by tapspace · · Score: 1

      Oh shit! You're right. Damn, I got too excited over the joke.

    4. Re:Unusable? by rokstar · · Score: 1

      Yes and it has the unfortunate side effect of displaying any images transmitted over it in plaid.

    5. Re:Unusable? by colinrichardday · · Score: 1

      What are we using using to transmit data? A cuisinart?

    6. Re:Unusable? by petermgreen · · Score: 1

      After fast ethernet they started just reffering to them by their speeds, e.g. "gigabit ehernet" "10 gigabit ethernet" "40 gigabit ethernet" "100 gigabit ethernet".

      --
      note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
  10. Re:Frequencies and illness. by JonySuede · · Score: 1

    you are a refreshing troll, keep up the good work !

    --
    Jehovah be praised, Oracle was not selected
  11. 10 base works fine by Osgeld · · Score: 1

    if the situation needs, I got pissed off at our IT dude trying to bounce a wifi signal over 5 repeaters though real 3 hour fire walls and steel beams, I swiped a box of cat3 out of the storage closet and even though its 10mbs, that's 10x faster than our internet and I don't have to hear "my email doesn't work" 50 fucking times a day

    1. Re:10 base works fine by Bob+the+Super+Hamste · · Score: 1

      This is why is has stuck around, for a lot of applications it is robust and provides plenty of bandwidth. Do most people really need higher speed for most things. I have a 6/3 internet connection and it provides the bandwidth necessary for the Neflix HD movies, I know they aren't the best quality HD but are good enough on a 32 inch class (it might be a 34 or 36 I forget) TV from across the living room. This is probably the most bandwidth intensive thing I consistently do and don't have problems. There are times I would like more bandwidth than my 100 Mbit home network provides, but those are few and far between (transferring GIS data between machines) and can also be done when while I go and do something else.

      --
      Time to offend someone
    2. Re:10 base works fine by realityimpaired · · Score: 1

      Your IT guy is an idiot. He should have run an access point on the other side of the firewall/steel beam, and connected it using a wired GigE. Of course, he shouldn't have gone wireless except for the people that actually need wireless in the first place... 100mbit switched Ethernet to every workstation, and run access points for the people that actually have to work on laptops. It's not rocket science.

    3. Re:10 base works fine by sycorob · · Score: 1

      And more to the point, the rest of the world hasn't caught up with plain ol' Ethernet. Your home network is still a bit faster than what you can realistically get from your broadband supplier, so who cares? If somebody started offering 1 Gig download speeds, I don't think we'd still be happy with Ethernet.

    4. Re:10 base works fine by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The real fix is to reboot your computer! That is how all things computer related get fixed right? Well at least that is what my IT guy says when I call him.

    5. Re:10 base works fine by Osgeld · · Score: 1

      yea I know he is an idiot ... there are 6 desktops over there now hard wired to a switch

  12. Really /.? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Did you really just explain "Dhrystone" to us?

    1. Re:Really /.? by rubycodez · · Score: 1

      I prefer an oilstone myself

  13. Floppy and IDE by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    One is 30 years old, the other is almost 30 years old, and both are still available for many PCs. Yes, I know most don't come with a floppy drive, but if you really want to hook one up, you still can with most systems (not all). The keyboard port, serial port, centronics port are all equally old. Molex connectors are too.

    I can think of a lot of 30 year old technology still in common use today...

    1. Re:Floppy and IDE by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 2

      Heck, the (quite definitely still extant) 1/4inch TRS jack was developed in 1878 for telephone exchange patch panels...

    2. Re:Floppy and IDE by spire3661 · · Score: 1

      Floppy is more common on boards than PATA nowadays in my anecdotal experience.

      --
      Good-bye
    3. Re:Floppy and IDE by skids · · Score: 1

      I think SCSI beats IDE on this count. Not only has it been around longer, but IDE eventually had to adopt most of SCSI's features in a painful process of gradually admitting it was the inferior standard. Sorta like USB vs Firewire. And MPLS vs ATM. Etc. ad nauseum.

    4. Re:Floppy and IDE by colinrichardday · · Score: 1

      Yes, I know most don't come with a floppy drive, but if you really want to hook one up, you still can with most systems (not all).

      I've had an external floppy drive with a USB connector. Do they make computers without USB ports?

    5. Re:Floppy and IDE by petermgreen · · Score: 1

      However PATA is easy to find on expansion cards while floppy interface cards seem almost nonexistant.

      --
      note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
  14. 1980's internet: A Porn movie.... by realsilly · · Score: 1

    .... was the loading of a still image.

    --
    Life takes interesting turns, but the most interest is when you're off the beaten path.
    1. Re:1980's internet: A Porn movie.... by OzPeter · · Score: 2

      .... was the loading of a still image.

      I disagree. I definitely remember seeing an animated line drawn porn movie being rendered on an EGA display in either '87 or '88. Granted this was the late '80s, but it was still the '80s. The scary thing is how well I can remember the images, including the blue colour palette.

      --
      I am Slashdot. Are you Slashdot as well?
    2. Re:1980's internet: A Porn movie.... by Thud457 · · Score: 1

      The was porn on the Apple II in the late 70's.
      And definitely lineprinter cheesecake if not actual porn (60's? 50's? teletype?)

      --

      the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff

    3. Re:1980's internet: A Porn movie.... by Anonymous+Psychopath · · Score: 1

      .... was the loading of a still image.

      After performing a manual uudecode from the Usenet download.

      --

      Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.

    4. Re:1980's internet: A Porn movie.... by NoNonAlphaCharsHere · · Score: 1

      And ten years before that, there was the ASCII "Bambi VS Godzilla" that ran on 1200 baud "VDT"s. (That's "Video Display Terminal", as opposed to a teletype/DecWriter (paper) terminal)

    5. Re:1980's internet: A Porn movie.... by rrohbeck · · Score: 1

      1970s: ASCII art on the line printer :)

  15. I appreciate that ehternet can switch down to 10mb by drolli · · Score: 1

    If you have a bad cable/connector, 10MB/s can be much more reliable than 100MB/s.

  16. Comparing high end to low end by milgr · · Score: 3, Interesting

    In the 1980s, ethernet tended to be over Thinnet or Thicknet. I seem to recall speeds of 1-3Mbps over those technologies. Twisted pair came out somewhere around 1990 at 10Mbps.

    Today I mostly use 1Gps, but deal with servers that are 10G.40G and 100G will be standard in datacenters in a few years.

    The blurb indicates that Ethernet is the only technology that we are using from 30 years ago. Back then all the machines I used had Memory, cpus, displays, and keyboards. The particualr technology changed - just like Ethernet technology's changes.

    --
    Where law ends, tyranny begins -- William Pitt
    1. Re:Comparing high end to low end by 0123456 · · Score: 1

      The blurb indicates that Ethernet is the only technology that we are using from 30 years ago. Back then all the machines I used had Memory, cpus, displays, and keyboards. The particualr technology changed - just like Ethernet technology's changes.

      To be fair, you can still plug a modern Ethernet card into a 10Mbps Ethernet network and it will work; the ancient technology is still built into the hardware. You can't plug a Z80 CPU or a 500ns DRAM or a Sinclair rubber keyboard into a modern PC... heck, you can't even plug a PS/2 keyboard into my new server, it has to be USB.

    2. Re:Comparing high end to low end by dakameleon · · Score: 1

      Your point is valid, but to be generous, I think the point of this post is that with appropriate cabling & server setup, a machine from 30 years ago that understood Ethernet could talk to one today. CPUs, memory etc on the other hand didn't survive the years intact - the concept might remain, but the technology behind it is not compatible.

      --
      Man who leaps off cliff jumps to conclusion.
    3. Re:Comparing high end to low end by petermgreen · · Score: 1

      In the 1980s, ethernet tended to be over Thinnet or Thicknet. I seem to recall speeds of 1-3Mbps over those technologies.

      Thinnet and thicknet were both 10 megabit.

      The big advantage of 10 base T was not speed, it was the fact that the cheap cable made it feasable to star wire it. That lead to higher reliability and the ability to use switches to increase the effective bandwidth by only sending data where it needed to be sent.

      The particualr technology changed - just like Ethernet technology's changes.

      The great thing about ethernet is that while the technology has changed there is a high degree of compatibility between equipment of different ages. You can take an old peice of test gear with an AUI port, plug a twisted pair transciver into it and hook it up to a network built out of current kit with no problems. Devices with BNC ports need a media converter or a hub with a BNC port which is trickier to find but still not too bad.

      --
      note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
    4. Re:Comparing high end to low end by razvan784 · · Score: 1

      You also can't plug a current processor made by $HUGE_COMANY into a current motherboard designed for processors from $HUGE_COMPETITOR_OF_A, even though they can execute the exact same code. Regarding ancient keyboards, game controlers, memory cartridges and whatnot, you can't plug them in directly, but you can via a cheap 8-bit microcontroller. Some people do that for fun. One of the nice parts about old hardware is that specifications are often times available and simple enough so it can be quite easily interfaced.

    5. Re:Comparing high end to low end by LordLimecat · · Score: 1

      The big advantage of 10 base T was not speed, it was the fact that the cheap cable made it feasable to star wire it. That lead to higher reliability and the ability to use switches to increase the effective bandwidth by only sending data where it needed to be sent.

      And to limit collision domains, effectively meaning that collisions dont occur on a switched network.

    6. Re:Comparing high end to low end by Lumpy · · Score: 1

      I have a 10 base 2 hub. you could do star topography of a 10base2 network. And there were switches available for 10base2 from HP. They were expensive as HELL and typically used only in large companies.

      I built my own 10base2 switches by loading up a PC with network cards and running Xenix on it to act as a switch.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    7. Re:Comparing high end to low end by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What is forgotten on a blurb is the fact that those 30-year old networks were shared media (wonder where "ether" comes from?), and basically everybody shouted on top of each other. Switches and routers were extremely expensive equipment, and long into the nineties, hubs were used instead of switches. Of course ten megabits is quite a bit for single 80s-era workstation, but not so much for all of such workstations on a faculty.

      What is still shared with the original design is mostly the frame format. Pretty much everything else around it has seen couple iterations of changes since.

      Yes, Ethernet is a success story. Still, how much the original design has in common with the CX4 and fiber 10GE server adapters, switches, routers and other equipment at the server room, configured to use VLANs and some more? Only the frame format, and even that has been extended. If you compare that with TCP, for instance, I'd say that TCP, at 30 years since RFC 793, is much truer to its' origins than Ethernet is.

    8. Re:Comparing high end to low end by milgr · · Score: 1

      I haven't seen thicknet or thinnet equipment in years. I think that at one point the first company I worked for had a bridge between their thicknet twisted pair networks, but there is little equipment available to talk to thinnet or thicknet today.

      --
      Where law ends, tyranny begins -- William Pitt
    9. Re:Comparing high end to low end by rubycodez · · Score: 1

      no problem, I still have adapters AUI to twisted pair and twisted pair to thin. they're still stocked by some stores.

    10. Re:Comparing high end to low end by rubycodez · · Score: 1

      wasn't such a big deal back then, then most workgroup's traffic was very bursty, loading a few hundreds of kb documents or (in the case of a couple of my employers) CADD file of a couple megabytes from the server at "load" or "save" time...most of the time the network load was almost zero. A couple places I worked had Arcnet, 2.5 mbit/sec, and even that was ok because of the very sporadic and infrequent use of network by workstations for any file transfer.

    11. Re:Comparing high end to low end by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thinnet and thicknet were both 10 megabit.

      The original ("experimental") version of Ethernet ran at 3 Mbps. I believe 10 Mbps came with the commercial release.

    12. Re:Comparing high end to low end by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      you can still plug a modern Ethernet card into a 10Mbps Ethernet network and it will work

      The reason network interfaces maintain more backward compatibility than internal interfaces for RAM and CPUs is that the network is what connect the computers. Once you build a new machine you can use new components from the same epoch, but you will still want the old and the new computers to communicate, hence you want the network to remain compatible.

      Granted going two generations back may be overdoing it when the throughput increase between each generation has been an order of magnitude. It wouldn't have been a problem if the networks only supported one generation back such that 100Mbit/s equipment could go down to 10Mbit/s and 1Gbit/s equipment could go down to 100Mbit/s. If you absolutely needed to make 1Gbit/s and 10Mbit/s equipment communicate you would just have had to put a 100Mbit/s switch in between. But OTOH I suppose making 1Gbit/s equipment capable of running at 10Mbit/s probably doesn't add much to the price.

      One thing I don't get is why there is so few switches with a couple of the high speed ports and multiple lower speed ports. 100Mbit/s switches are still a lot cheaper than 1Gbit/s switches. If you have a network that mixes 100Mbit/s equipment and 1Gbit/s equipment, it feels like a waste to use a 1Gbit/s port for 100Mbit/s equipment. You can buy a 1Gbit/s switch with only a few ports and a 100Mbit/s switch with more ports (which probably ends up being the cheaper of the two). But then you end up with only 100Mbit/s between the two switches, meaning all your 100Mbit/s equipment will end up sharing a single 100Mbit/s link, which is not what you want. Why aren't there switches with say 8x100Mbit/s and 2x1Gbit/s available at prices lower than 8x1Gbit/s switches?

    13. Re:Comparing high end to low end by Bacon+Bits · · Score: 1

      That's true to a point, but there's a fundamental difference. Networks are designed to allow different devices which have almost nothing in common to communicate. Keyboards are designed to work with one type of computer and thus build with a specific frame of reference in mind, especially prior to universal device connection technologies (aka, USB). The same is even more true of CPUs, memory, and so on. Additionally, it's important to note that while many older devices speak with Ethernet frames, they speak them over obsolete cable media (coax, older fiber) or they often don't speak TCP or UDP packets instead favoring SPX or NetBIOS. So while your layer 2 technology carries the same name, it really bears little resemblance to Ethernet as it was originally designed.

      --
      The road to tyranny has always been paved with claims of necessity.
    14. Re:Comparing high end to low end by petermgreen · · Score: 1

      The thing with Ethernet is it has been built on gradual change and a high degree of backwards compatibility. Yes the majority of links on a modern network are likely to be full duplex (no CSMA/CD needed) and run a 100 megabit or more. However current switches still support 10BASE-T links with CSMA/CD and therefore can still be linked to old Ethernet gear with nothing more than a transceiver (for gear with an AUI port) or media converter/hub (for gear with a built in 10BASE2 transceiver)

      --
      note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
    15. Re:Comparing high end to low end by guruevi · · Score: 1

      I had a thinnet network at home in the late 80s when some companies started to get rid of their 10Base2 and 10Base5 stuff for the fast 16Mbps TokenRing (which was nearly double the speed and way more reliable).

      The speed was limited by the computer interface (ISA @ 8MHz) and PCI/VLB/MCA cards were expensive for home use so I had like 6Mbps throughput between 2 computers. 10Base2 was still specced at 10Mbps but most networks (especially as they grew beyond 5 computers) never got those speeds because of collisions, cable management issues (bus topology) and simply bad installation (bad wiring, next to TL tubes, open splitters or someone forgot or put the wrong terminators at the end).

      --
      Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
    16. Re:Comparing high end to low end by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You can use a PS/2 - USB converter - I've got loads of them, free. For kicks, I even diasychained PS/2 - USB and USB - PS/2 converters 3 pairs long and it worked perfectly fine.

    17. Re:Comparing high end to low end by foksoft · · Score: 1

      To be fair, you can still plug a modern Ethernet card into a 10Mbps Ethernet network and it will work;

      You can't. Ethernet cabling also evolved during its lifetime. In the early stage it was using different cables with different connectors. Even your PS/2 keyboard can be connected to your USB port using reduction. But I don't know about any reduction from BNC to 8P8C. In this Wikipedia article http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethernet you can find photo of ethernet card with both connectors.

    18. Re:Comparing high end to low end by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No; thinnet and thicknet were designed for 10Mbps as well, but they were half-duplex only and a shared bus topology, so a node could rarely get full use out of the bandwidth.

  17. Yup, it's fast. by operagost · · Score: 1

    10Mbit is still faster than my internet connection. I wouldn't complain, but it seems every streaming site assumes I have at least 5 Mbit and I only have about 1.5. It's amusing to me, because we still have problems with broadband penetration in many parts of the USA and 1.5Mbit is equivalent to the standard T1 speed that many small to medium businesses still use for their WANs.

    --

    Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
  18. does everyone really need 100gbps? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    i know there are applications that need it but when it came time to look at 10gbps where i work only backups seemed to benefit from it. then we would need to buy all new servers as well.

    even our busiest database servers that process tens of millions of requests a day used a few Mbps on average at any given time. they love their 5600 series xeons and 72GB of RAM in them, but don't really need faster networking

    1. Re:does everyone really need 100gbps? by 0123456 · · Score: 1

      i know there are applications that need it but when it came time to look at 10gbps where i work only backups seemed to benefit from it. then we would need to buy all new servers as well.

      1. Backbones. If you have a big gigabit switch connected to another big gigabit switch you don't want a single gigabit connection between them. Similarly, when computers come with 10Gbps ethernet you won't want a single 10Gpbs connection between the switches.
      2. As more computers come with SSDs, the LAN becomes the bottleneck when transferring files, not the disk. 10Gbps should be enough for them for some time though.

  19. Re:Frequencies and illness. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Fuck off, you off-topic quack.

  20. Re:Frequencies and illness. by Lumpy · · Score: 0

    Colloidal silver will save us all!

    Also get rid of all technology because EM is draining your soul....

    --
    Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
  21. Re:Frequencies and illness. by jcr · · Score: 1
    --
    The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
  22. Token ring by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That's all I'm saying. (Shudder!)

    1. Re:Token ring by jk379 · · Score: 1

      Thicknet with vampire taps ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vampire_tap ) to then connect to the servers via AUI connectors.

  23. Re:Frequencies and illness. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    I opened my mind, weighed up all the evidence I could find, and concluded you're full of shit.

  24. is there any other 30-year-old technology ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    >is there any other 30-year-old technology still present in current computers?

    Yup it is called SCSI. Now in both parallel (going away) and its serial form (SAS).

    1. Re:is there any other 30-year-old technology ? by Intron · · Score: 1

      >is there any other 30-year-old technology still present in current computers?

      Yup it is called SCSI. Now in both parallel (going away) and its serial form (SAS).

      and FCP (SCSI on fibre channel) is still the main enterprise storage environment, although gradually being replaced by iSCSI (SCSI on ethernet).

      --
      Intron: the portion of DNA which expresses nothing useful.
  25. Re:I appreciate that ehternet can switch down to 1 by pak9rabid · · Score: 1

    True. And if 10 MBit/full-duplex isn't working for you, you can always chop that down to 10 MBit/half-duplex if needbe.

  26. Sweet! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm gonna link to this on my Gopher! I'll send it up on my uucp upload tonight!

  27. Because there is little need to improve? by grasshoppa · · Score: 1

    Supply and demand addresses this. We simply do not need a great deal of network speed at this time. For years network bandwidth stagnated simply because no one had a burning need to do more with it. Then our workstations became capable of processing more data faster, thus we moved from 100mbit to 1gig over a very short period of time.

    I'd be willing to bet that there is a correlation between HD sizes and network bandwidth, now that I think about it.

    --
    Mod me down with all of your hatred and your journey towards the dark side will be complete!
  28. Forgot about another... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Think about it: is there any other 30-year-old technology still present in current computers?

    The power cable in a modern desktop is almost identical to ones used 20-30 years ago. Should we be amazed that newer power supplies manage to get more and more power through a cord that was designed so long ago?

  29. Looking at a recently-purchased computer now by davidwr · · Score: 1

    Serial port - slightly improved over 1980 serial ports, but still compatible
    Parallel port - slightly improved over early-1980s parallel port, but still compatible
    Keyboard - DIN8 instead of DIN5 and different layout and "softer," but otherwise similar to 1980. Still compatible with a cheap adapter.
    Video output connector - VGA, circa 1987, but improved in many ways. Still compatible.
    DVD burner - the "cd read" functionality came to computers in the late 1980s, to music several years earlier. Can still read early-80s-standard music CDs.

    Oh, and it gets even better:

    Hard drive - descended from hard drives in the 1960s. SATA protocols descended from SCSI protocols dating from '80s or earlier.
    Power supply - many components are technically equivalent to pre-1980s tech.
    Screws, fans, and other case hardware - basic tech predates moon landing.
    Standard-shape AC power cable dates back farther than I can remember.

    Some other computers of this vintage have built-in floppy and PATA ports. PATA descended from the old IDE standard of the late 1980s or very early 1990s. I don't know if it maintained compatibility or not. On some recent computers you can still run a vintage-early-80s 5 1/4" floppy drive through the motherboard's floppy adapter.

    I could go on but I'll stop here.

    Hey, if it works, it's efficient, and it's cheap, there may not be any reason to improve it. I don't know about you, but one of my favorite data-recording devices is a pencil and notepad, both of which predate the moon landing by far.

    --
    Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
    1. Re:Looking at a recently-purchased computer now by 0123456 · · Score: 1

      Serial port - slightly improved over 1980 serial ports, but still compatible

      My new motherboard doesn't have one.

      Parallel port - slightly improved over early-1980s parallel port, but still compatible

      My new motherboard doesn't have one.

      Keyboard - DIN8 instead of DIN5 and different layout and "softer," but otherwise similar to 1980. Still compatible with a cheap adapter.

      My new motherboard doesn't have one. It's USB-only.

      Video output connector - VGA, circa 1987, but improved in many ways. Still compatible.

      VGA isn't 1981 technology, though it's not far off.

      DVD burner - the "cd read" functionality came to computers in the late 1980s, to music several years earlier. Can still read early-80s-standard music CDs.

      Again, CD-ROMs weren't 1981 technology. CDs weren't even around in 1981, were they? I don't remember seeing them until the mid 80s.

      Hard drive - descended from hard drives in the 1960s. SATA protocols descended from SCSI protocols dating from '80s or earlier.

      You can't plug a SATA cable into a hard drive from 1981. Even if you could, I don't believe the PATA protocols are that old and I'm not sure SATA supports the non-DMA protocols?

      Power supply - many components are technically equivalent to pre-1980s tech.

      I would be surprsied if you could plug a 1981 PSU into a modern motherboard or vice-versa.

      Screws, fans, and other case hardware - basic tech predates moon landing.
      Standard-shape AC power cable dates back farther than I can remember.

      True, the AC cables haven't changed.

    2. Re:Looking at a recently-purchased computer now by davidwr · · Score: 1

      Well, 3Mb/sec thick-cable Ethernet and 1Gb/sec UTP are quite different as well.

      CD audio dates back to 1980, and your drive will play an early-80s "Red Book" CD just fine.

      --
      Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
    3. Re:Looking at a recently-purchased computer now by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      Serial port - slightly improved over 1980 serial ports, but still compatible

      Not entirely. A lot of new serial ports don't output a full 12V, so they may not be compatible with old machines.

      Keyboard - DIN8 instead of DIN5 and different layout and "softer," but otherwise similar to 1980. Still compatible with a cheap adapter.

      New keyboards now are all USB. A lot of computers now don't have PS/2 connectors any more, so you'll need a cheap adapter if you want to use an older keyboard.

      Power supply - many components are technically equivalent to pre-1980s tech.

      Not really. Switch-mode power supply (SMPS) technology has changed a LOT in the last 30 years: much better efficiency and power density.

      Screws, fans, and other case hardware - basic tech predates moon landing.

      Stamped steel and screws go back a lot farther than that. Fans have changed, however; today's brushless DC fans are quite different from the stuff they had in the 70s and earlier, and are quite different from the stepper motor-based fans of the 80s.

      Standard-shape AC power cable dates back farther than I can remember.

      According to Wikipedia, the IEC 60309 standard came out in 1970. I don't know if the C13/C14 plugs/outlets were in that one or not, or if they came in a later revision.

      On some recent computers you can still run a vintage-early-80s 5 1/4" floppy drive through the motherboard's floppy adapter.

      Yep, the floppy standard hasn't changed a bit; if your computer can attach a 3.5" floppy, it can attach a 5.25" one too (even the old 360k ones). But no one uses them any more, and I'd be surprised if modern motherboards still include them. There just isn't a good reason to bother with floppy disks any more.

    4. Re:Looking at a recently-purchased computer now by Lumpy · · Score: 1

      "Serial port - slightly improved over 1980 serial ports, but still compatible

      My new motherboard doesn't have one."

      yes it does. Post the model number and I'll point it out to you. They dont put a DB9 on the back anymore but you still have an rs232 port on that motherboard.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    5. Re:Looking at a recently-purchased computer now by rubycodez · · Score: 1

      right on, my particular motherboard is two years old but also has IDE, parallel, and even a fucking floppy port though none of that hooked up.

    6. Re:Looking at a recently-purchased computer now by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      Power supply - many components are technically equivalent to pre-1980s tech.

      I would be surprsied if you could plug a 1981 PSU into a modern motherboard or vice-versa.

      Powersupplies have changed even in the last 5 years. My most recent computer upgrade forced a powersupply upgrade as well for the 24pin-ATX connector. The 20pin wasn't compatible anymore. The powersupplies are backwards compatible though.

    7. Re:Looking at a recently-purchased computer now by hamburgler007 · · Score: 1

      CDs have been around since the 60's (invented in 1965). They didn't really come into the market until 1980 though so it can make the list.

    8. Re:Looking at a recently-purchased computer now by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Serial port - slightly improved over 1980 serial ports, but still compatible

      Not entirely. A lot of new serial ports don't output a full 12V, so they may not be compatible with old machines.

      Only if the old machines aren't compliant with the standard, or you're using a long cable or an otherwise demanding environment. RS-232 receivers are required to interpret anything from -3V to -15V as a logic '1', and +3V to +15V as a logic '0'. (-3V to +3V is no-man's land.) The point of having such a wide range of legal values at the receiver is noise immunity and allowance for long cable runs (which attenuate the signal). In typical PC applications cables are 6ft or less, attenuation and noise aren't much of a factor, and chances are that a transmitter sending as little as +/-5V will work fine.

      In practice most of the serial ports which don't generate a +/-12V swing produce +/-10V because they have RS232 transceiver chips which operate from a +5V supply and use charge pumps to double and then negate it. There are also 3.3V supply transceivers which do +/-6.6V. These will all work fine in typical RS232 applications, and even surprisingly long cable runs so long as the bit rate isn't too high.

  30. 10 MBps was fast ... by gstoddart · · Score: 1

    That 10Mbps Ethernet was hella fast at the time.

    Remember, everything was text. No fancy graphics or sounds (except for the single beep tone) ... so a terminal wired right into the mainframe at 9600 baud on a serial line was an absolutely screaming connection. Most people couldn't read at the scroll rate of 9600 baud anyway.

    Hell, in 1988 when I started university, we still used line editors ... oddly enough, I think it actually was on a VAX 11/780. With a line editor, a 300 baud modem was a usable speed. My connection from home on dialup was every bit as good as the VT52's in the lab, which was good.

    Back then, a 360K floppy held a lot of data, and nobody could figure out what you'd do with the 650MB of a CD. Docs were smaller, and the total amount of data we owned was a tiny fraction of what is now one or two MP3s.

    I routinely chuckle at the fact that I've personally paid $700 for 16MB of RAM and $350 for a 325MB hard drive ... now I've got 8GB of RAM and a total of 6TB of disk space in my home computer. My first computer had 16K of RAM, and a CPU speed measured in kHz (single digit).

    I think the fact that Ethernet is still around is a testament to the fact that it was a well designed protocol from the beginning, and it has been able to scale.

    I can only wait to see what kind of wacky stuff we'll be running in just a few years ... and I'm pretty sure there will still be an 802.x transport layer. :-P

    --
    Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    1. Re:10 MBps was fast ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Anything that's not changed in the last 10 years probably needs an update. The only way to really be profiting from communication technology is to think about the future and how to improve speeds or compression (both do the same job). It all about making the most from the bandwidth available.

      If an alien culture looked at us they would laugh at is sending billions of 0's a 1's around when we could do things much simpler using higher level languages.

      Of course there is a lot to be said for caching too as Google analysis / their predictive text has shown that people do have common searches.

    2. Re:10 MBps was fast ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My first computer had 16K of RAM, and a CPU speed measured in kHz (single digit).

      I'm not buying that. HOW slow was it?

    3. Re:10 MBps was fast ... by gstoddart · · Score: 1

      I'm not buying that. HOW slow was it?

      OK, my apologies ... I was referring to one of these ... it actually was 0.895MHz (I had one of the oldest ones). So that's only 895 KHz, definitely not single digits.

      So, I might have over-stated just how slow it was ... not by much though. That was a very long time ago.

      I also remember my parents paying to upgrade to 16K of RAM, which means it actually started out with 4KB according to that spec sheet.

      It wasn't quite steam powered, but it's getting there. :-P

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
  31. I'm still using 10BaseT... and cursing it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It so happens that it's the fastest way to move music onto my Empeg Car MP3 player.

    The player also has a 12mbps "full speed" USB port, but software/packet overhead actually make it slower than using the 10mbps Ethernet port. And I don't even want to think about moving gigs of music onto the player via the provided RS232 port...

  32. The Fan is about the same. And Tech Journalists. by billstewart · · Score: 1

    The fan in your desktop PC hasn't changed much since then. (It's a lot different from your laptop fan, or the fans in a VAX 11/780.) And the VAX didn't "come with 2MB" of RAM or have a speed of about 1 MIPS. The canonical definition of 1 MIPS was "as fast as a VAX 11/780", and you could get different amounts of RAM; mine had 4MB in two cabinets. Princeton University's Massive Memory Machine Project later had a VAX 11/785 with 128 MB of RAM, so they could experiment with what you could do if you had "enough" memory (128MB wasn't really quite enough, but it was all you could fit in a VAX expanded to 10 cabinets. :-)

    --

    Bill Stewart
    New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
  33. If network speeds had increased as fast as processor speeds, the i7 would today at least have a 10Gbps network interface, and perhaps a 100Gbps one.

    This sounds similar the the "If cars improved like computers" joke.

    --
    Time to offend someone
  34. Because of "competition". by sgt+scrub · · Score: 1

    If network speeds had increased as fast as processor speeds, the i7 would today at least have a 10Gbps network interface, and perhaps a 100Gbps one."

    If ISPs were not trying to screw their customers out of every penny 10G networks WOULD be common place.

    --
    Having to work for a living is the root of all evil.
    1. Re:Because of "competition". by LordLimecat · · Score: 1

      95% of users would not be able to utilize 10gbps.

      A) the backbones cant support that many people over 10gbps.
      B) Its not exactly cheap to run that kind of fiber everywhere
      C) Home PCs wouldnt really be able to use data coming in that fast unless it were streaming media-- hard drive speeds arent really up to the 1.5GB/s mark unless youre running a 4-disk RAID0 array with solid-state drives.

      Not to mention, running media capable of 10gbps for a large number of customers is not cheap. Docsis 3.0 is what, 300mbps? How eager are you to pay for installation of a OC-192 line to your house?

    2. Re:Because of "competition". by realityimpaired · · Score: 1

      Sooner or later it'll be available to regular consumers. Probably with a 50GB/mo usage cap.

    3. Re:Because of "competition". by sgt+scrub · · Score: 1

      95% of users would not be able to utilize 10gbps.
      When discussing how things would be, how things are is not the proper measure.

      A) the backbones cant support that many people over 10gbps.
      You mean: the backbones do not support...

      B) Its not exactly cheap to run that kind of fiber everywhere
      Phone, ISP, TV services are not free. I distinctively remember paying last months bill, and the month before that, and the... Multiply that times 200M people.

      C) Home PCs wouldnt really be able to use data coming in that fast unless it were streaming media-- hard drive speeds arent really up to the 1.5GB/s mark unless youre running a 4-disk RAID0 array with solid-state drives.
      1.5G will be just fine for me for now. I would rather read about bus speeds rising than ISP fees rising while speeds staying the same.

      Not to mention, running media capable of 10gbps for a large number of customers is not cheap. Docsis 3.0 is what, 300mbps? How eager are you to pay for installation of a OC-192 line to your house?
      Fiber to every public school in the US should already be here. The current state of things is a testament to how much we don't give a shit. ISP, Phone, and TV companies should be paying for this in return for using the lines to distribute content/provide service.

      Instead tax payers (not just users) are paying for bandwidth for schools through property, state, and sales taxes. If you have a telephone line, hardware installation and maintenance is getting payed by you through surcharges, "other fees", and taxes added to your bill.
      eg. Federal/State surcharge/tax/"other fees" in Texas per phone line:
      State Cost-Recovery Fee
      TX Utility Gross Receipts Assessment
      Federal Universal Service Fee
      Carrier Cost Recovery Fee
      Texas Universal Service
      Municipal right-of-way Fee
      Federal Excise Tax
      Federal (Non-regulated & Toll Charges)
      State and Local (Local Charges)
      State and Local (Non-regulated & Toll Charges)

      --
      Having to work for a living is the root of all evil.
  35. Router and firewall console ports are still RS232 by billstewart · · Score: 2

    Of course, 9600 baud was really fast back then, and some of them today use 115200 instead. You could crank a Unibus up to 9600 or maybe even 19200 if you had the I/O processor card (KMC?).

    --

    Bill Stewart
    New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
  36. Re:Frequencies and illness. by NoNonAlphaCharsHere · · Score: 2

    I'm with you. I think the guy's a genius. Better than the Recipie Troll, Helen Keller and the SCO licensing guy all rolled into one. Dr. Bob is funny, on-topic (in his hilariously off-topic way) and damn smart. Plus, he's somehow got a gift for frist-psotting, as well. I hope he keeps visiting us for a long time to come.

    Mods, Dr. Bob deserves an "informative"!

  37. Time to compare apples to the right fruit... by mattdm · · Score: 1

    The VAX-11/780 was priced at something like $200,000.

    If you buy a comparable computer today, getting 10Gbps interconnects would certainly be a reasonable option.

    1. Re:Time to compare apples to the right fruit... by Relayman · · Score: 1

      Yes, on a Power7 system, you can get them on a system that costs a lot less than $200,000.

      --
      If I used a sig over again, would anyone notice?
    2. Re:Time to compare apples to the right fruit... by mattdm · · Score: 1

      Yes, on a Power7 system, you can get them on a system that costs a lot less than $200,000.

      Or for much less than that on AMD/Intel x86_64 too. I'm just sayin' if you're looking at that kind of money, the network technology options actually seem right in line.

  38. i7 has an ethernet interface? by sanosuke001 · · Score: 1

    I didn't know the i7 cpu even had an ethernet interface; I thought it was the motherboard or the add-on card that gave me my network connection. huh, learn something new everyday

    --
    -SaNo
    1. Re:i7 has an ethernet interface? by Ksevio · · Score: 1

      Yep, you just solder a connector onto 8 of the pins and it'll automatically network.

  39. easy question by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Think about it: is there any other 30-year-old technology still present in current computers?

    Microchips, circuit boards, wires,fans,steel, plastic, audio jack sockets, keyboards, speakers, LEDs, On/off switches

    1. Re:easy question by ledow · · Score: 1

      MIDI.

  40. History of the Internet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The Dream Machine: J.C.R. Licklider and the Revolution That Made Computing Personal by M. Mitchell Waldrop

  41. Hasn't been my experience by sean.peters · · Score: 1

    I used to play a game called "Harpoon 2" (a naval warfare sim) on the original Pentium. Once more than a few contacts were present, it was dog slow. Slow to the point where you'd make some moves, enter, then go get a cup of coffee while the machine thought for a few minutes. Game time would advance by 30 seconds. Repeat. Later I loaded it up on a P4, and was pleasantly surprised to find the game was actually playable.

    And that experience was not unique to that one application - just about any application that felt slow on older machines was pretty snappy by the time P4's rolled out. Intel, AMD, et al, simply threw speed at the problem faster than developers could soak it up. I'm hard pressed to think of ANYTHING I use on a routine basis that really bogs the machine down, and that certainly didn't used to be the case. Sure, those folks who do stuff like 3d rendering and similar very computationally intense tasks are still feeling the need for more speed, but really: you wouldn't have even been able to do that stuff on older machines. That's not a case of code bloat.

    1. Re:Hasn't been my experience by DrgnDancer · · Score: 1

      Oh Gods, the original Civilization on a 486DX :-) It would start up fine, the first few rounds would be all nice and quick... then as the NPCs built their empires and units and such the time between rounds would get steadily longer... and longer... and... Well you get the idea.

      --
      I don't need a million points of light, just two points of multi-mode fiber and a 10 Gig-E router.
  42. Invented by whom? by Hitzelfritz · · Score: 1

    Over the years I have had the misfortune of listening to Bob Metcalfe shameless claim to be the inventor of Ethernet, and held my tongue out of some combination of embarrassment for Bob, and timidity on my part. Years before that first misfortune, I had the great fortune to speak with David Boggs for some time. He patiently explained the theory behind this new technology, why it was better than others, token-bus, for example, and so forth. So, when this article says "invented by Bob Metcalfe and others" it fails to include the guy whose name appears on the patent with Bob, and is listed first, I believe. I am delighted to see Ethernet evolve so well, and there is room for a lot of fun discussion about how it morphed into what it is, but when we think of this, we should try to honor all the major contributors, especially when they are the technical genius behind the idea. Shame on you Bob. What would your Mother say?

  43. Dude, that's not "bloat" by sean.peters · · Score: 1

    "Bloat" implies useless or unnecessary growth in file size, which is just not what we're talking about here. Sure, simple text files were nice and small, but they were... simple text files. What's your solution? That people stop exchanging pictures, video, and rich text? The tl;dr version of your post: you kids get off my lawn.

  44. Re:Frequencies and illness. by Jeng · · Score: 1

    You are a quack and I feel sorry for anyone who ever takes seriously any words you say.

    --
    Don't know something? Look it up. Still don't know? Then ask.
  45. 300 baud modems are still around! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Most POS credit card terminals still use 300 baud modems to dial in.

    Why?

    They don't have to transmit a lot of data to authorize a transaction, and 300 baud modems will work reliably on the crappiest phone lines.

  46. Really? by sean.peters · · Score: 1

    I'd be very interested to see where you can get a current (by which I mean less than about a year old) computer with RS-232 or SCSI interfaces. SCSI was never all that widespread, at least in the PC (vs. Mac) world - I used to own a lot of SCSI gear, and always had to buy interface card. And I haven't seen a new computer with a serial port in many, many years.

    1. Re:Really? by grim4593 · · Score: 1

      I know at least some gigabyte motherboards have parallel and serial headers. The boxes don't come with the expansion plate but you can get them for cheap.
      http://www.gigabyte.com/products/product-page.aspx?pid=3781#sp
      Sure it isn't an off the shelf HP or Dell that you can pick up at Best Buy, but you can still get them.

    2. Re:Really? by mcl630 · · Score: 1

      My new work rig (purchased in January from Dell) has a serial RS-232 port and a parallel printer port on the back. No SCSI though AFAIK.

  47. Invented by whom? by Hitzelfritz · · Score: 1

    Over the years I have had the misfortune of listening to Bob Metcalfe shameless claim to be the inventor of Ethernet, and held my tongue out of some combination of embarrassment for Bob, and timidity on my part. Years before that first misfortune, I had the great fortune to speak with David Boggs for some time. He patiently explained the theory behind this new technology, why it was better than others, token-bus, for example, and so forth. So, when this article says "invented by Bob Metcalfe and others" it fails to include the guy whose name appears on the patent with Bob, and is listed first, I believe. I am delighted to see Ethernet evolve so well, and there is room for a lot of fun discussion about how it morphed into what it is, but when we think of this, we should try to honor all the major contributors, especially when they are the technical genius behind the idea. Shame on you Bob. What would your Mother say?

  48. why ? by lemur3 · · Score: 1

    when I could look this and other things up without loading a ton of ads and other crap why would i go to ars to read it?

    see all the info on ethernet i could want on a single page.. why would i want to go to ars and read it?

  49. Bestbuy by Scared+Rabbit · · Score: 1

    I was recently helping my parents pick out a new hub at bestbuy since they needed one solely to add an ethernet port to their network for their tivo to plug into. Speed didn't really matter since it was just for getting subscription data. When we went and found the wired networking stuff they had exactly 2 to choose from. An $80 gigabit switch and a $30 10Base-T switch. Not a 10/100 hub or switch, just a 10Base-T one. I had no idea they still made these lol.

    1. Re:Bestbuy by glebovitz · · Score: 1

      I don't know where you shop, but Amazon has 10/100 MBps hubs for less than $20 new.

    2. Re:Bestbuy by rubycodez · · Score: 1

      plenty of shops on e-bay with high volume have 8 port 10/100 switches and the like for less than $10.

    3. Re:Bestbuy by Ksevio · · Score: 1

      I was recently helping my parents pick out a new hub at bestbuy

  50. what about 100mbs people? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I don't know about you but when was the last time you saw a Ethernet card etc that was just 10mbs and not 10/100? almost all cards built since the early 90's all support 100mbs some were even gigabit. most switches are 10/100 but almost none are just 10. 10 is just to slow for most things 100mbs is plenty.

  51. Re:Frequencies and illness. by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

    Absolutely agree. Dr Bob is the best troll I've seen on Slashdot for ages. Just when I thought proper trolling was a dying art, he comes along. His posts are well written and self-consistent, and you can almost believe that he's sincere. He consistently gets a large number of replies, indicating that a lot of people are still fooled, every time. Exactly how a troll should be.

    --
    I am TheRaven on Soylent News
  52. Re:Frequencies and illness. by Jeng · · Score: 2

    When you give false hope to HIV sufferers then you are very likely to lead someone down a false path of recovery that could easily lead to that persons death.

    You are worse than a troll. You are dangerous.

    --
    Don't know something? Look it up. Still don't know? Then ask.
  53. In case there are those not in on the joke... by rwade · · Score: 1

    here is..."ludicrous speed".

    1. Re:In case there are those not in on the joke... by Megane · · Score: 1
      --
      #naabhaprzrag, #sverubfr-000, #agi-fcbafberq, negvpyr[pynff*=' negvpyr-ary-'] { qvfcynl: abar !vzcbegnag; }
  54. Ethernet, the early days by Animats · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Now this really dates me. But in 1975, I got a tour of Xerox PARC when I was taking a summer course in computer architecture at UC Santa Cruz. Alan Kay showed us some of the early Alto machines. They were still having trouble getting a smooth phosphor coating on the custom-made page-sized CRTs. We saw the PARC 3mb/s Ethernet, which Kay described as "an Alohanet with a captive ether," the first networked file server, and the first networked laser printer. It was clear this was the future, if the price could come down by about a factor of 10. Kay was hoping that some day a workstation might cost as little as a grand piano.

    At Ford Aerospace, I was responsible for putting in the first Ethernet, around 1981. It was mostly "thick Ethernet" at 10mb/s. Ethernet cables weren't standard items, but Ford Aerospace routinely built cables for satellite ground stations, so we had the appropriate cables made up and pulled through the telephone ducts run through the building's concrete floors. I checked out a time-domain reflectometer from the measurement equipment pool and took a look at the cable. Cables ended in PL-239 coax connectors, and sections were joined with a barrel. The Ethernet tranceivers had SO-239 connectors on both ends, so the cable went through them. We used a vampire tap once or twice, but it didn't work out as well. The TDR showed a transceiver as generating almost no reflections. But bending the cable tighter than a 1' radius caused a noticeable impedance mismatch.

    We were bothered that coax Ethernet wasn't a balanced system. There's a DC component to the signal, which means you can't use decoupling capacitors between sections to get rid of hum. We spent time on grounding issues and looked at the cable signal with scopes a lot. Repeaters were very expensive then, and we were trying to avoid them.

    The network interfaces were mostly 3Com boards. Our original network consisted of a PDP 11/70, a PDP 11/45, a VAX 11/780, and a PDP 11/34 used as a gateway to a 9600 baud leased line "backbone link" to Ford HQ in Dearborn MI. We later added four Sun 2 workstations and a Sun server. Everything ran TCP/IP. Ford HQ had a similar link to Ford Aerospace in Colorado Springs,which had an ARPANET IMP. So we could get to the ARPANET over a 9600 baud shared backbone. We could FTP files instead of mailing tapes! I used to Telnet into Stanford's machines over that link.

    I did a lot of work on 3COM's TCP/IP implementation, which originally was totally incapable of coping with a mix of speeds in the network. That's why I have those RFCs on network congestion with my name on them. This was before telephone de-regulation, and that 9600 baud leased line was expensive.

    The article mentions that "There used to be a lot of fear, uncertainty, and doubt surrounding the performance impact of collisions." There was a period around 1984-1990 when coax Ethernet performance in practice was much worse than theory predicted. The problem was finally figured out by Wes Irish at Xerox PARC. It turns out that the defective design of a SEEQ Ethernet interface chip was causing the problem. As the state machine of the chip transitioned at the end of receiving a packet, there was a period of a few nanoseconds when the chip momentarily turned on the transmitter power, jamming the coax for a few nanoseconds. This reset the "quiet time" timer on all the other stations on the cable, causing them to ignore any following packet for several microseconds, after which they dropped back to the proper "look for sync" state. Back-to-back packets thus lost the second packet, which caused retransmissions and killed performance, but didn't show up as a "collision" to the controll

    1. Re:Ethernet, the early days by pegr · · Score: 1

      This is the best "back in my day" story I've read here in years! ;p

    2. Re:Ethernet, the early days by glassware · · Score: 1

      Thank you for your contribution towards making all the things I appreciate nowadays work ;)

    3. Re:Ethernet, the early days by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      +1

    4. Re:Ethernet, the early days by gamblenic · · Score: 1

      Probably the best comment I have read on here in quit some time. Thank you.

    5. Re:Ethernet, the early days by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This post is awesome. TY

    6. Re:Ethernet, the early days by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Awesome.

      I really love listening to stories about tech from the pioneering days, especially when it's told by Grandpa Simpson!

  55. Re:I appreciate that ehternet can switch down to 1 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Especially if you are stuck with a mis-wired cable. I had a problem where unbeknownst to me, the middle two pair were wired side by side instead of split; it would attempt to connect forever but not establish a connection until forcing the adapter to use half-duplex mode (talk about feeling sheepish when I finally figured out the problem).

  56. networking improvements by glebovitz · · Score: 1

    The Xerox Parc standard was 3 MBps (actually something like 2.96 MBps). The actual throughput was lower because the cards didn't include DMA, and yet this technology sufficed through the early 1980s.

    The question of whether network has kept pace with computing is a good one. I would think that the throughput requirements are dependent on the application and not the speed of the computer. Current networking seems to deal fine with high resolution video streaming and application transfer in spite of the speed of the host computer. Yes I have 4 3Ghz cores on my laptop, but most of that is power consumed by compiling and virtual machines. My TV set with its 1 Ghz MHz ARM processor does well with the 150 MBps wireless connection for video and data.

  57. TRILL / MLPPP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Me thinks Ms. Perlman is now out of touch on the subject? My employer has been doing MLPPP - multi-link point-to-point (trill) for some time now.

  58. Memory Lane... by LVSlushdat · · Score: 1

    All this talk about the original ethernet spec.. Who remembers (and worked with) ArcNet? The company I worked for in 1987 did quite a few installs of the then VERY new Novell Netware 2.1. The platforms were Compaq 286 desktops with 2MB of ram, a 300MB ESDI drive, and an ArcNet network interface card, and ran NW in "non-dedicated" mode, meaning someone used the system also as a workstation. The fun part of setting those systems up was running a utility called "Compsurf" on the drive, sort of a disk tester/low level formatter combo. We started compsurf on Fri evening just before going home, and it was just finishing up Mon morning... Also loved (NOT) the address dipswitches on the Arcnet cards that were so easy to get wrong... Ah memories...

    --
    THANK YOU, Edward Snowden!! Americans owe you a debt of gratitude (whether they know it or not..)
    1. Re:Memory Lane... by An+ominous+Cow+art · · Score: 1

      Yeah, we originally moved data around with a 'big' (80M, I think) external HD carried around on a bed of foam. People used to plug this thing in, copy up/down whatever customer files they worked with, and send it on to the next person. Thankfully, that was replaced with a 12Mhz 286 Epson Equity II+ fileserver running Netware, and an ArcNet network.

      It was probably 3 or 4 years later that we replaced all that with thin Ethernet, which sucked a little less.

      Bleh, now you've brought back my suppressed memories of editing CONFIG.SYS and AUTOEXEC.BAT to convince all the drivers and memory managers to work together nicely. Thanks a freaking lot :-).

  59. When the NAS is remote by tepples · · Score: 1

    Copy a 500GB system image to a NAS over 10Mbit and get back to me (should take about 4.7 days).

    That's why several recent backup tools do the copying gradually in the background, even if it does take days. Consider that most people's connections to the Internet aren't substantially faster than 10 Mbps, making the connection between the LAN and the Internet the bottleneck in a remote backup. (Those with the 100 Mbps connection are outliers, not part of the mainstream that enjoys economies of scale.)

  60. It's the latency, Stu... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    > But even today, 10Mbps is not an entirely unusable speed

    10 Mbps is what I receive at home, so when I share among local machines -- pls correct me if I am wrong -- 100 Mbps Ethernet (or even 54 Mbps wi-fi) is more than enough.

    Yet I have trouble to watch videos -- besides site congestion -- probably because the ISP is playing some dirty QoS tricks on me.

    Other less frequent situations will become a problem in the near future when I get my act together and assemble a fileserver. Also, I came to the conclusion a network boot might be a lot faster than a live CD -- specially on intranets and compared to older CD drives. If anyone can corroborate this opinion of mine, I'd be thankful.

    See (at the end): http://www.lyberty.com/tech/terms/usb.html

  61. Re:Frequencies and illness. by CharlyFoxtrot · · Score: 2

    "By all means let's be open-minded, but not so open-minded that our brains drop out."
    - Richard Dawkins

    --
    If all else fails, immortality can always be assured by spectacular error.
  62. Re:Frequencies and illness. by Thud457 · · Score: 3, Funny

    agreed, Dr. Bob is doing it right.
    The only enhancement I can come up with would be to branch out into homepathy. That really gets the nerds in a lather.

    --

    the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff

  63. Re:Frequencies and illness. by obergfellja · · Score: 1

    you're out there, man... in the Ether(net). You should try some Hash.

  64. Re:Frequencies and illness. by obergfellja · · Score: 1

    mind you, most of the people on /. can easily research this information and verify/debunk whatever the Dr. is trying to claim.

  65. 27 years old tech in daily use for me... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Well, not only do I still have a 10 Mbit/s hub in use on my network at home, I do also type this on a 27 years old keyboard: a good old IBM Model M. Buckling spring switches over membrane. Not only these things are made to last but they also provide an incredible tactile feedback which touch-typist typically love. To "beat" such a keyboard you have to shell out bucks for some Cherry MX keyboards or some Topre (like the Happy Hacking Pro 2).

  66. I'm still using by bgspence · · Score: 1

    a 50 year old 3 prong, grounded electrical cord which is interchangeable with all kinds of technology.

    And, I traveled in asia with a descendent of the guy who invented the screw in light bulb.

    Nobody has mentioned the absurd price of early ethernet implementations. There is good reason why it took forever to catch on. It took a cost plus military budget to afford it.

  67. Re:Frequencies and illness. by hairyfeet · · Score: 1

    Well Dr Bob the fact that you think you can cure diseases like kidney problems and cancer by tweaking someone's back? It kinda makes you a bit of a loony.

    As for TFA? if it ain't broke why the hell fix it.Ethernet works. It works damned well, it works no matter the OS, it works across hardware manufacturers without needing any funky drivers. Frankly that is more than i can say for sound, graphics, hell even certain southbridges are more fiddly than Ethernet. And I can take this 10 year old former school PC I have sitting in front of me, plug it into a 2 year old router and transfer files from my 1 year old desktop. That's nice.

    So personally I say "Go Ethernet!" as year after year you remain the same rock solid standard I can count on, without needing dongles and adapters and all the other bullshit. Now if only we could get whomever is in charge of video outputs to make up their damned mind, between the DVI, HDMI, DisplayPort ARGH!! Just pick one and make it fricking universal already!

    --
    ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
  68. So what? by rrohbeck · · Score: 1

    So you say you don't have dual bonded 10Gb Ethernet on your i7? Pity.
    Back then 10Mb/s was the high end, today multiple 10Gb/s are. So we have a factor of >1000 here too.

  69. Twist ending to the loading of a still image by tepples · · Score: 1

    Heck, some such movies even had a twist ending. The late Richard Jeni once joked about loading pornography on dial-up: "All right, all right, good boobs, all right, come on- PENIS! Oh, God!"

  70. Re:Frequencies and illness. by Nethead · · Score: 1

    I have an old Pathoclast that I'm restoring. I'm just not sure how to tell if it's actually working.

    It will be donated to the James Randi Educational Foundation's new LA headquarters when the move is complete.

    --
    -- I have a private email server in my basement.
  71. 10Gbps is here by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I don't understand the point of this, there are 10 Gbps NICs available, just because you don't invest on them, doesn't mean they don't exist.

    The cheapest 10/100 cards you can get for some 10€, but a 10 Gbps NIC seems to cost around 500€.. Sure, you might think that's a lot of money, but a Core i7 970 @ 3.2 GHz costs just as much, and as a comparison you can also get the cheapest CPUs for around 30€ and they probably won't reach the same dhrystone scores as the Core i7 either..

    However, most people don't have those Core i7 970s either, just like they don't have the 10Gbps NICs..

    Also, the 3GB of RAM you mentioned is not really that top-notch these days, my medium-high end desktop has 6GB and supports up to 24GB of triple channel DDR3..

  72. Another discovery of the way things were by Relayman · · Score: 1

    I'll bet the author of this article was born after 1980 and didn't experience these things first hand like many of us did. This is another article in a series where kids discover older technology and wonder how we got anything done.

    Let's have an article about the room at General Motors in the 50s where the 100+ clerks handled accounts payable invoices. The guy I talked to was responsible for vendors starting with JA through JG. Do we really care?

    --
    If I used a sig over again, would anyone notice?
  73. Re:Frequencies and illness. by grub · · Score: 1


    Holy moly!

    I heard of this stuff in the past but never gave it much thought since. Just googled it and found lots of crap, but this video takes the cake.

    Thanks!

    --
    Trolling is a art,
  74. 10baseT Wireless by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Just this morning I used an hour moving around my almost $200 three antenna wireless router (D-Link) and managed to get download speeds jumping between 1 and 20 Mbit every other second with an average of about 10 Mbit as the best case. The client is the only connected to the router and is located about 7 meters from the router, with two brick walls between them. If I wasn't leasing I would drill holes around the entire flat and lay CAT6 and throw all POS wireless routers out the window. Even this 30 years old tech is multiple times better than 802.11b/g/n.

  75. AppleTalk to StarNet to 10BaseT Ethernet by lorddarthpaul · · Score: 1

    Just be glad that someone invented it! Worked at a company that started with a few engineers and a handful of Macintosh IIx machines on AppleTalk. When we grew to a 10-way AppleTalk network, it was pitifully slow. One day, Joe (his real name ;-), came back with a StarNet controller/hub. A bit of twisted pair later, we had a fast network once again! Not sure exactly how close to Ethernet that was, but it was sure faster than AppleTalk! Later migrated to 10Base-T (and were outraged when Apple's Quadra machines arrived and needed a 10Base-T AAUI adapter costing another 100 bucks!). Having to support multiple kinds of transceivers, including coax probably slowed down the adoption of Ethernet technology. Coax had lots of connector issues, something I still see with my Cable TV installation every now and then. These days, I only use 1000Base-T, because packet LATENCY is much lower, and much of the time that's probably more important than overall throughput being higher. Sure, wireless is constantly evolving and almost can't be avoided with modern mobile devices, but fast wired still seems far more reliable.

  76. Inflation by sjbe · · Score: 1

    $2600 in the 80s is probably worth about $10,000 now, or more.

    Using the CPI for inflation, it would be approximately $6788 in 2010 dollars if you are calculating from 1980 or it would be $4512 if you start at 1989.

    Can you imagine spending even $5k for a computer now? Or $2k?

    Umm, yes. Have you looked at the price of a Macbook Pro? It's not remotely difficult to spec out a Windows or Mac computer that costs significantly more than $2000, and $5000 is not that hard to get to either. Fortunately there is often no need to spend that much but it's not hard to imagine.

  77. Mod parent up. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Most informative post in this whole discussion.

  78. Transputer serial links ran about 10 Mbps in 1980s by Paul+Fernhout · · Score: 2

    They were essentially similar to early USB:
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transputer#Links
    "The basic design of the transputer included serial links that allowed it to communicate with up to four other transputers, each at 5, 10 or 20 Mbit/s -- which was very fast for the 1980s. Any number of transputers could be connected together over even longish links (tens of metres) to form a single computing "farm"."

    For a time in the 1980s, with five transputers (four borrowed), using a link endpoint to drive a robot, I had the fastest (or maybe second fastest) computer (cluster) on Princeton's University's campus (in a robotics lab I managed). But it was awkward to program it in Occam. And eventually I had to return the borrowed transputers.

    What the transputers could have become... Sad they ended up in the dustbin of history...

    --
    A 21st century issue: the irony of technologies of abundance in the hands of those still thinking in terms of scarcity.
  79. Re:Frequencies and illness. by NoNonAlphaCharsHere · · Score: 1

    OOOHH!! OOOHH! Yes! Or aroma therapy!!!

  80. Re:I appreciate that ehternet can switch down to 1 by petermgreen · · Score: 1

    BTW you have to be careful about forcing full duplex modes because forcing a mode often disables autonegotion. So if you force 10 megabit full duplex on your computer and connect it to an unmanaged switch (or a managed switch in autonegotiation mode) you are very likely to end up with a duplex mismatch (since in the absense of autonegotiation information the unamanged switch will assume half duplex)

    Duplex mismatches in ethernet result in a line that sorta works but with appalling performance.

    --
    note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
  81. With apologies to Charles Babbage by Lanteran · · Score: 1

    In your otherwise observant post, you had the line "Gate's Law: Every 18 months the speed of software halves." If this were true, the speed of modern software would be comparable to that of any other point in computer history. In truth, the rate of slowing is slightly in excess of that of hardware driven speed gains. I would suggest the next version of your post should read "Gate's Law: Every 16 months the speed of software halves".

    --
    "People don't want to learn linux" hasn't been a valid excuse since '03.
  82. Good Point, because this means.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Large corporate telecoms have been fleecing the taxpayer subsidies for 30 years without the return of said corporations promise to make their infrastructures better (ie wire the country with fiber)..

    Yes, great milestone.