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Airline Pilots Allowed To Dodge Security Screening
OverTheGeicoE writes "Wired has a story about TSA's known crewmember program, which allows airline pilots to bypass traditional airport security on their way to the cockpit. Pilots will be verified using a system known as CrewPASS that relies on uniforms, identity cards, fingerprints, and possibly other biometrics to authenticate flight deck crews. Once they are authenticated, they can enter secure areas in airports without any further screening. Participation at present is voluntary, and applies at Baltimore/Washington (BWI), Pittsburg (PIT), Columbia (CAE) and now Chicago O'Hare (ORD) airports. TSA is hoping to expand the program nationally. Bruce Schneier thinks this program is 'a really bad idea.' Pilots are already avoiding scanners and patdowns at security checkpoints (video). Is the new program just a way for TSA to hide this fact from the flying public?"
Couldn't a pilot who's convinced to pull off a terrorist attack just, well -- do it? They are at the controls and all...
Who the hell cares? Getting your flight crew to the cockpit as easily as possible is the best idea that the damn TSA has had so far, and I'm all for not pissing off the people that can make my flight god awful.
My sausage tree didn't grow, does that make me a bad mommy?
1. Compromise the pilot via blackmail, family hostages, etc
2. Profit!
Of course the pilot is flying a big bomb, so they don't have to bring a weapon with them through security if they want to do damage. There's no real reason to screen them...so maybe this -is- a good idea after all. Hey, wait!
Send them through a breathalyzer-only checkpoint and you will have satisfied me.
This could make pilots very popular targets for becoming drug mules.
Is there really any significant advantage to not screening crew?
I am suspicious, there has to be a bad idea in there somewhere or I will call shenanigans. The US government could F up a cheese sandwich, or make it cost $20,000.
The issue is whether a terrorist can impersonate a pilot long enough to bypass the screening process.
Once you introduce multiple avenues for clearance, you introduce vulnerabilities.
But what if the pilot got hold of a weapon they could use to hurt people! Like an aircraft for example... Oh wait....
So far, the TSA has stopped zero terrorists. Over the same period of time, alert passengers have stopped 3 I can recall - maybe more I'm not thinking of.
So how about we stop wasting billions upon billions that we can't afford for the mere illusion of security?
Yeah, the pilot will put the gun to his head and hold himself hostage.
"Drop your guns, or the pilot gets it." "Oh that poor man, can't somebody help him."
As the pilot drags himself to the cockpit and takes over the control from the pilot, the pilot would force the pilot to crash the plane into a building.
Fight Spammers!
Why would it be "a million times more useful"?
Why NOT run the pilots and crew through the regular security? Including checking their bags?
Because once you create a group where you do NOT check their luggage, you create an opening for terrorists to move large amounts of weapons past security.
So, 20 terrorists want to take down 20 planes.
1 terrorist spends the time to get listed as a pilot for some minor airline.
Then that 1 terrorist moves 100 pounds of explosives (and detonators) through security without being checked.
The other 20 terrorists buy tickets and travel without weapons.
Once past security, the "pilot" hands the bombs off to the 20 terrorists.
And all that would have been avoided if the pilots had to go through the same screening as everyone else.
Yeah, the pilot will put the gun to his head and hold himself hostage.
No, the pilot will hand the gun to a terrorist who's going to use it to... well, I don't know, some kind of terrorist crap.
I work at an international airport. There's only one gate between the street and the runway. The 'guards' routinely flag us through from over 100 feet away if we so much as hold up something that looks remotely like it might be a badge. I've held up credit cards, library cards, and once, the Queen of Diamonds. So why in the hell should I submit to a full body X-ray operated by someone without a medical degree, or submit to sexual molestation if I refuse that? Is that supposed to make me feel safe?
is that if security is equally inconvenient, more consideration will be placed on it's effectiveness, and efficiency. That why I think lawyers and judges should have to wait in line to get into the court house.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
The issue has nothing to do with a pilot's ability to crash a plane if he or she so chooses (excusing the fact, for a second, that the other pilot would have something to say about that, unless they work as a team (and what's the chance of you surviving that?)) and related to all the other parts of the security system. The TSA is the steward of security at an airport, and would have to be (a) trusted to identify actual pilots vs counterfeit pilots (lets call them) (b) that a new system is put in place to identify actual pilots in a resilient way. I put it to you that the calibre of TSA staff at airports is not at that level - I certainly don't trust them and I know many other security types with the same assessment. And with (b), not only does the summary above assume things that the original article does not state, a new central database somewhere will have to built and maintained, with close to 100% reliable airport and TSA access in real-time, and likely coupled with at least 3 factor authentication. I don't believe that can happen. Security is a system after all, and this creates new vulnerabilities in new parts of the system. Meantime, I'm all for just scanning pilots along with everybody else, so the counterfeit pilot with a case packed full of C4 cannot slip through and hand it off to an accomplice.
Does El Al screen their pilots?
deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
Hi! I'm Captain Jack! You probably didn't know that I was scheduled to fly this airplane what with you and the co-pilot being employed by the airline. But trust me. See my uniform? Obviously I'm a pilot and this is a plane and so forth. So don't bother calling security that there's some weird guy in a pilot's uniform trying to talk you out of the cockpit. Just give me the controls and I'll take over. You can have yourself a nice relaxing day off while I take the flight that you thought you were scheduled to fly.
Impersonating a pilot to get past TSA security is one thing. ... yeah, that's something else.
Convincing the real pilot to let you fly the plane
Why am I apparently the only one that is happy that that the TSA are finally starting to back off a little?
I'm looking forward to the day when the TSA go away entirely and flying goes back to being as easy as pre 9/11 days.
I mean how many actual terrorist attempts (even failed ones) on aircraft have there been since 9/11 compared to the number of flights that happen daily? If not actually 0, its so small as to be statistically insignificant risk per flight. Isn't the continued perceived threat of terror completely just our own paranoia now? The more we continue to live in fear the more the ghost of Osama still wins. I say F him and lets live in freedom again.
Yes he will. Or do you mean before the plane hits rock bottom? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EgyptAir_Flight_990
This guy disagrees.
And you left one thing off.
And the consequences of FAILING with a false positive (terrorist mistaken for authorized pilot).
I think the problem here is the same as with the TSA in general.
People hear "pilot" and they think "person flying the plane".
Which assumes 100% verification of every pilot, every time, at every location. Including 100% verification of NON-pilots.
Once you get past that assumption, the flaws are obvious.
I have a friend who is a commercial airline pilot. After 911, TSA insisted on taking his fingernail clippers because he "might commandeer the plane with them." His reply "I am the commander of the plane, who would I commandeer it from, myself?" was only met with blank stares.
They are talking about biometric verification, that's not the same as dressing someone up in a pilot suit and waving them through...
Joel
Airline crews are limited to flight hours as a means to limit the radiation they receive to stay under OSHA limits. It is one of the careers that receive relatively high doses over their careers. Doses are cumulative (think about how people develop skin cancer supposedly from sun burns as a child).
For these reasons pilots try to avoid even small doses of radiation where they can, and walking through a body scanner several times every day they work over several years would add up.
Examples of industries with significant occupational radiation exposure:
http://theenergycollective.com/willem-post/53939/radiation-exposure/
The rest of the screening is stupid. The reason is that the pilot has hands on the controls and can crash the plane, if they wish. What's more they can get a license to have a gun in the cockpit, and many do because you get a pay bonus. So a pilot can kill everyone on board if they wish, you HAVE to trust them.
That means there's no point in screening them for weapons and so on, because who cares? It is a waste of time. All you need to do is screen their identity. Make sure that the person is who they claim to be. If so, then off they go.
Fuck no! Where did you get that idea? This all hinges around the TSA being unable to tell pilots from passengers from terrorists.
The ONLY way it would work is if the TSA could tell (with 100% reliability) who was a pilot and who was a terrorist.
Which is why EVERYONE should have to go through the SAME screening as everyone else. If it works,
This isn't about stopping anyone from going through security.
This is about checking EVERYONE'S luggage with the same process.
You can get through security with a fake boarding pass. It's been done. Look on Google for people who have done it.
But under this new plan, they COULD get a bomb through. They could get multiple bombs through. And they could hand those bombs to terrorists flying on other airplanes. So ONE guy getting through security reduces the security of MULTIPLE flights.
No. It show a complete failure to understand basic security.
And that's the logical failure of your argument. You hear "pilot" and you think "has hands on the controls".
Meanwhile, a terrorist can impersonate a pilot to get through security (or get licensed by a small airline) and move multiple bombs through security to hand off to other terrorists on other flights.
The TSA introduces 1 weakness into the system and now every single flight is more vulnerable.
Again, no. You'd have to be able to tell who is NOT a terrorist. Not who IS a pilot.
And this system is not able to do that.
Pittsburg? Last I checked we still had an 'h' at the end since 1911.
Perhaps they meant Pittsburgh (PIT)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pittsburgh_International_Airport
Verifying the identity of the pilot is no defense against some sort of suicidal/terrorist/crazy action taking place. Check Egyptair Flight 990 in 1999.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EgyptAir_Flight_990
What I don't understand is why don't the ground crew and the mechanics and the airport employee shuttle bus driver have to go through security too? They could potentially get on a plane!
And the things that go on planes are completely insecure. What about the cans of soda the flight attendants serve? Those are really dangerous. A coke employee could put a bomb on a plane by putting it in a can of coke at the factory.
And what about the airplanes themselves? A boeing employee could put a bomb in a brand new plane and no x-ray machine would ever detect it.
Yes, its true. We need to put everything through airport security. Even the airplanes.
Is the new program just a way for TSA to hide this fact from the flying public?
As always, the best thing to do is hide it in plain sight: just make it official. Class-A citizens over there, Class-B over here. So the only ones complaining will be Class-B citizens, and who cares about those?
Note that the Class-A does not only include crew, it's certain high profile passengers as well.
You're telling me that the guy who determines whether the airplane stays in the air or not might be carrying a weapon? SCARY!
Talk to anyone who flies regularly. They'll explain the situation to you.
Or... use the gun to shoot the copilot (the only person on the right side of the cabin door to stop him), and fly the plane into a vulnerable target, such as a skyscraper.
Whereas a pilot-turned-terrorist with no gun would have to get minimal hand-to-hand training and get the jump on his copilot when he comes out of the restroom.
(In case you can't tell, I don't see armed pilots making a big difference one way or the other in almost any case...)
Each pilot would normally have control of one plane, but each pilot that gets a special pass through security could, if they were inclined to do nefarious things, brings weapons through and deliver them to terrorists inside the "secure" area who had already passed through security (since they aren't pilots) but who would each board other planes.
Immediately after 9/11 -- with the reports from the planes of weapons including not only box cutters, but also guns -- there was a lot of speculation that this is essentially what happened with the terrorists in those attacks, that weapons had been brought through by one or more airline employees who were permitted to bypass the screenings that were in place for passengers entering the secure area of airports. That was one of the reasons given for federalizing airport security and eliminating the exceptions to the screening requirements.
Where he plays George Jung, the coke/weed dealer?? His g/f was a stewardess evading checks the SAME WAY to smuggle in weed/coke etc.-et al, so yes, these pilots should be checked also...
* Also, there's nothing saying they themselves could not do it, OR, be "coerced" into it by various means (not just money, but say, threats to their loved ones etc./et al).
APK
P.S.=> Are these people STUPID who control this "security check" scenario (& yes, I was stopped coming in last year from Europe, but I declared I had seeds for flowers (not drugs, just ones from my garden that my grandfather had planted where I grew up that I'd never seen in the USA since, for my home/gardens)... they said "it threatens US farmers" yea, bullshit - what does MONSANTO & the giant industrial farms do?
I mean, for Pete's sake... WTF!
(OR, are they just showing us all we're the ones under "terrorist attack", taking away our allegedly "inalienable rights" piece by piece? This world's starting to make me VERY ILL lately, I'll tell you that for nothing... & I'm done being silent about it - they're ruining the economy too, which f's us ALL over large as well!).
Man - I don't know about the rest of you, but it does me make me damned sick! Things had better start to change...
... apk
'The Event'" on NBC last year
September 2007. On our return trip from year long deployment in Iraq, I, and the rest of my infantry unit landed at JFK to refuel our chartered plane on the way back. A plane that was returning the soldiers in full battle dress and a lot of our gear under the plane. After some quick sight seeing the entire company was subject to the TSA screening. All the boots came off all the belts came of and when it was my turn, a pilot just sort of nodded to the TSA agent in front me and walked down the TSA side of the screening divide and into the terminal.
What the TSA must not have understood about screening my unit is that our weapons were already on (in) our plane.
I volunteer to build the giant x-ray machines for the airplanes! Talk about a lucrative government contract. Economic stimulus!
Yeah, allow me to repeat myself.
Hi! I'm Captain Jack! You probably didn't know that I was scheduled to fly this airplane what with you and the co-pilot being employed by the airline. But trust me. See my uniform? Obviously I'm a pilot and this is a plane and so forth. So don't bother calling security that there's some weird guy in a pilot's uniform trying to talk you out of the cockpit. Just give me the controls and I'll take over. You can have yourself a nice relaxing day off while I take the flight that you thought you were scheduled to fly.
Yeah.
Someone posing as a pilot might be able to get through the proposed "security" system.
Posing as a pilot and getting control of an airplane ... are you serious?
I guess they are considered like all other airport employees having security clearances and working behind the TSA security veil... There are thousands of people going in and out of the "secure" areas every day in any airports through the world each day without seeing such security screening.
They do simple background checks on these employees. I can't see any reason to threat crew differently.
C'mon, the whole system already has more holes than threads that string those holes together. Is there anyone but sardine class passengers who still gets to get pestered with this security theater? From airport personnel to VIP passengers, from airport shop clerks (in the "secure" area) to crews now, there is virtually nobody but the cargo class passengers left that get to pay homage to the almighty TSA goon.
Security is the security of the weakest link. So, in this case, there is exactly ZERO security gained by the whole security show. Not that this wasn't the case already, but I guess now it should be obvious, or isn't it?
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Screening pilots was always idiotic. If they're at the controls of the plane and they want to kill everyone on board, they don't need to blow it up, do they?
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
Whereas a pilot-turned-terrorist with no gun would have to get minimal hand-to-hand training and get the jump on his copilot when he comes out of the restroom.
The cockpit door can be locked, you know. Why not just lock it while the co-pilot is in the restroom? There, no training nor weapons needed/
Couldn't a pilot who's convinced to pull off a terrorist attack just, well -- do it? They are at the controls and all...
A pilot *may have* already done it. Opinions vary depending on what investigative agency you ask.
"As the crash occurred in international waters, the responsibility for investigating the accident fell to the Egyptian Civil Aviation Authority per International Civil Aviation Organization Annex 13. As the ECAA lacked the resources of the much larger American National Transportation Safety Board, the Egyptian government asked the NTSB to handle the investigation. Two weeks after the crash, the NTSB proposed handing the investigation over to the Federal Bureau of Investigation, as the evidence they had gathered suggested a criminal act had taken place and that the crash was intentional rather than accidental. This proposal was unacceptable to the Egyptian authorities, and as such the NTSB continued to lead the investigation. As the evidence of a deliberate crash mounted, the Egyptian government reversed their earlier decision, and the ECAA launched their own investigation. The two investigations came to very different conclusions: the NTSB found the crash was caused by deliberate action of the Relief First Officer; the ECAA found the crash was caused by mechanical failure of the airplane's elevator control system."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EgyptAir_Flight_990
@summary: Pittsburgh again has an H at the end.
A third person enters the cockpit while the co-pilot is in the bathroom. Otherwise, there would be a single point of failure for the plane--if just one person died, nobody else could enter the cockpit.
Yeah, I walked in to complain about the editor's lack of editing, too (though I guess average opinion here is that the editors generally don't edit).
As a native Pittsburgher, I demand that Soulskill correct the error in the summary, like the editor that he's supposed to be.
Let q be a radix > 1. I am in ur base-q, killing 10 d00ds.
Some people from the Pittsburg in California have been known to quip that they took out the h, because there's no hate there. Anybody know knows anything realizes that's ridiculous. Plenty of hate to go around.
The only problem is: who is going to use the manual inflation tool, just below the belt?
Now, just let the pilots pass without the other checks. Oh yea, let the rest of us move like we live in a free society as well.
While not caused by the aircrew, the plane was essentially brought down by a former PSA employee using his badge to get by security. This happened while PSA was in the process of being folded into UseLess Air (USAir).
A Shadeless room is a brighter room.
Here's my 3 part solution
1. Don't screen anyone. Get rid of security theater.
2. Keep the heavy cockpit doors and lock them
3. Put an armed marshal on every flight
You want to bring you fingernail clippers, pocket knife, or (God forbid!) a bottle of water from home onto the plane? Go right ahead.
This has been one (one the many) criticisms of the TSA for a while. It's not just a case of wearing the uniform and showing an ID. They need to be "known" pilots. The airline vouches for them and they need to provide fingerprints.
Nearly every discussion seems to revolve on what pilots can do in or with their own airplanes, but what would prevent them from passing weapons and other dangerous items to the real terrorists that are waiting to board other planes? They would stay alive and make a lot of money in the process.
It's in the best interest of the TSA to screen aircrew, because any items being passed on to terrorists by unscreened people are likely going to be turned into another news story about how terrorists managed to smuggle another weapon through security.
A pilot gone bad has the most powerful weapon at that airport. If they decide to auger in they can so so without anyone on the flight crew having any recourse. What about all the security screeners and other airport employees. Come on folks, at some point you have to trust somebody. That ego maniac UBL succeeded = he got the democracies to subvert their own systems in the name of stopping terrorism. MF'r never had the courage to do the deed himself...just a master manipulator like all those other politicians...talk, talk, talk and let others do the dirty work. Why does the human race continue to follow these lunatics? A sad state of affairs indeed.
I think the TSA employees should be checked randomly every hour. All TSA employees should be checked no less than twice per shift.
After all, they could be coerced into being terrorists just as easily as granny or the pilot or anyone who has loved ones.
... is because Obama wants more support from the Pilots' Union in his re-election campaign.
Just as below Anonymous Coward stated below, no FAA time of duty regulations are tied to radiation exposure. It is all based on fatigue. I could come up with many citations of FAA regs and studies related to this. I defy anyone to find a reputable citation that claims FAA or OSHA considered radiation exposure when setting FAA time of duty regs.
they should just get rid of most of the screening, for everyone, not pilots. the current 'screening' is not more than a 'security theater', giving a (false) impression of security. it is invading, mostly harassment, unnecessary and totally pointless.
without such stupid and pointless procedures, the whole flying experience would be pleasant - again. with the same amount of 'security' as you have now.
and would be a whole lot cheaper too.
"Hush Harriet, that's a sure way to get him killed!"
OK I am an airline pilot. Every airliner has a third seat of not more in the cockpit. Pre 9/11 any crewmember could ride on almost any airline by sitting in this seat or sitting in an empty seat in the cabin. After 9/11 the government shut all of this down. This became a problem because many pilots travel to and from work this way, known as jumpseating. The major airline unions lobbied the TSA, and worked with the many carriers to get a system in place called CASS (cockpit access security system). This allowed the pilots to get back into the cockpit or onto another airline's empty seat. This system is maintain by the airlines and is what's used by the TSA to allow access to the cockpit. It requires that there be positive identification of the crewmember, through several forms of ID and knowledge of the system. As well this database has an image of the pilot in it that must match the Airline ID badge image.
This system is the same system used to bypass security checkpoints. All the pilot unions decided why not use the verification system in place to access the cockpit to just get through the checkpoint. We have been pushing for this for 5 years. We view ourselves as the last line of defense. If someone can get to the point where they will cause mischief inside the airplane in flight then we will stop them. We go through the same ten year background checks as the TSA employees, many of us are prior military (some still in active reserve, if I can carry a nuclear bomb on my plane, why cant I go into a civilian airport with a tube of toothpaste).
In order to bypass it, you would have to do this:
1. know the proper protocol and procedure to get through the line.
2. fake an airline identification badge as well as a second form of govt id ID.
3. find a way to spoof the database that is held by the airline with your crewmember pic in it
or
3. fool the TSA person by looking like the crewmember you are impersonating
4. know how to get yourself onboard a plane
#1 you cant just search for the procedure or know the protocol, but not undoable
#2 fake ids can be made, but they are machine readable harder to fake, and you would have to make them with the data of an existing crewmember
#3 you would need an inside person or a very competent hacker to get yourself into the database
or
you would have to be like the guy in that james bond movie and impersonate your pilot perfectly
#4 most of us can spot a person whos not supposed to be in the cockpit when they come to the cockpit, assuming they can get past the gate agent, I am an active airline pilot and I have trouble with this, the system is not perfect and gate agents are not always helpful. ( they could in theory get inside security and cause mischief on the ground, but whats to prevent terrorists from spraying a crowd of people outside the checkpoint with automatic weapons fire , see Rome Airport attacks on wikipedia)
It's a good idea, we find it convenient. I damned sure don't want to be groped by a minimum wage hack, or expose myself to any more radiation than I have to, I've already had two skin cancers removed, and I don't go outside or tan at all.
Many of us view TSA airport screening as security theater that has no real impact on actual security, and to be honest it isn't really useful. The TSA could be eliminated and the threat of terrorism would rise minimally. Shoes, liquids, patdowns, undressing to go through a metal detector; none of them have an appreciable impact.
oh, no there isn't :D
Sure they have a nice job, and why would they do something to there own plane.
But hey if some guy told the pilot, "you get 5.000$ if you tage this packet and drop if og [Someplace] on the other side of the security check.
It's not your plane it hurts, and if I need some money (for one reson or another) they it's easy.
A good method is
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The 2 pilots that flew into the buildings had all the right id with them, nothing could have avoided that from happening, if they can infiltrate the pilots, you are telling me they cant infiltrate the security companies hired to do the airport security?....Seriously, this is all a smoke screen to let people think they are safe, when in fact does nothing to really protect us. I think they should allow this to happen, although technically if they had strapped a bomb to their chest , no one would be there to scan them or pat them down....
Either way, I would rather we have more bullet trains for travel then airplanes.