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Laptops In the Classroom Don't Increase Grades

blitzkrieg3 writes "Classrooms all around the country are being fitted with one to one laptop programs, networking hardware, digital projectors, and other technology in order to stay competitive in the 21st century. Kyrene school district spent $3 million modernizing their classrooms. The problem? The increase in spending doesn't lead to an increase in test scores. Policy makers calling for high tech classrooms, including former execs from HP, Apple, and the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation, want to increase technology investment despite the results. Others are not so sure, or think it is an outright waste of money."

69 of 511 comments (clear)

  1. Well duh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Are the tests testing for technological awareness and other abilities enhanced by using laptops?

    1. Re:Well duh by Pete+Venkman · · Score: 5, Funny

      Great idea! Little Johnny is failing math, but he can tweet like a motherfucker now!

    2. Re:Well duh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Also: Were the students graded on a curve?

    3. Re:Well duh by kj_kabaje · · Score: 3, Insightful

      There is no curve on the NCLB tests like the Gates foundation and others are trying to address.  There is a standard that is set of minimal qualifications in each content area with multiple levels of achievement.  Unfortunately, if your teachers aren't allowed to teach and must do what their administrators and legislators consider good curriculum (despite many of them being completely unqualified), you chances of actually improving scores lowers drastically.

    4. Re:Well duh by larry+bagina · · Score: 2

      and his knowledge of female anatomy is outstanding.

      --
      Do you even lift?

      These aren't the 'roids you're looking for.

    5. Re:Well duh by Dexter+Herbivore · · Score: 2

      Exactly, I thought the point was supposed to be teaching skills... which doesn't necessarily equate to improving grades. One of the many faults with education systems.

    6. Re:Well duh by colinrichardday · · Score: 4, Funny

      Curved laptops? Doesn't Apple have a patent on that?

    7. Re:Well duh by swalve · · Score: 2, Insightful

      What a load of bunk. Teachers are there to teach. Even if it is a bad curriculum, a professional teacher should be able to meet *some* standard.

      The problem is, teachers somehow got the idea in the last generation or so that they shouldn't have to follow rules or have their classrooms besoiled by outside influences like curricula.

      Seriously, listen to teachers talk shop. They will bitch about parents, bitch about the "long" workday, bitch about having to meet standards, bitch about how to make the classroom interesting year in and year out. There's a clue right there: they get new students every year, if the classroom was interesting last year, it will be interesting this year. But that's the problem- teachers are valuing their own entertainment and egos over actually doing the hard work of teaching.

      What to be a bad teacher? Blow your wad grading papers all night that you didn't need to assign in the first place, and then be tired and resentful all day. The best teachers I ever had all had one thing in common: they were lazy. They made a curriculum (or had one made for them) and used that every single year. Maybe with a tweak here and there to account for new developments. They arrived 5 minutes before the students, left 5 minutes after, and gave their all when it counted: in the classroom, teaching. They didn't waste their time with fucking computers, because they were a distraction. (Except in science classes, where the computers were testing and measuring instruments.) They didn't bitch about "teaching to the test" because that is what they are supposed to be doing. If a kid can pass the test, the kid has learned. Job done.

    8. Re:Well duh by narcc · · Score: 2

      As to grading, meaningful feedback is one of the keys to learning - the score doesn't matter, but showing what you did wrong so that you can correct it in the future is key to learning.

      We used to call that "formative assessment". Unfortunately, the ridiculous point system we've come up with does not reward the students for learning, only the accumulation of points. They could give two-shits about WHY they got a question wrong, it's just n points that they can't get back.

      Kids know that mindlessly filling out the daily homework worksheet and while failing the mid-term and final and the student can still "earn" them a passing grade. If that's not enough, lazy teachers offer "extra credit" projects (read: glue shit to poster board) to help little Johnny lazy "boost" his grade -- and keep equally lazy, entitled, self-righteous parents off their back.

      We need to drop grades and 'points' (an abomination) and move to a competent / not yet competent system where students demonstrate competence for all of the courses core concepts. This would reward advanced students, who could work their way to an early graduation, while keeping the future-fast-food-workers from stumbling their way through, further devaluing the HS diploma, all the while holding the better students back.

      You can bet little Susie do-nothing would care a lot more about WHY she got a question wrong -- she'll need to know if she wants to pass!

    9. Re:Well duh by tonyreadsnews · · Score: 2
      My wife is an elementary teacher, and just about everything you said is completely and totally wrong, and the actual reason while the school system is all screwed up.

      Even if it is a bad curriculum, a professional teacher should be able to meet *some* standard.

      Wrong: unless you are making up "some standard" to mean anything which would be contrary to what the word "standard" means.

      they get new students every year, if the classroom was interesting last year, it will be interesting this year.

      Wrong: if this were the case, then the same system that was used to teach 50 years ago would hold the same interest today. Each class, and each student are a little different and depend on their culture, what other schools they attended, what has changed in society. All these thing affect what will interest the students. In fact my wife is working on her masters to address this exact issue most schools have.

      teachers are valuing their own entertainment and egos over actually doing the hard work of teaching.

      Wrong: Every teacher I know (since my wife is a teacher, I know a few) values the students interest and ability to get as much out of their class more than anything. From entertainment, to stress levels (due to competing expectations from parents, students, administrative staff), to low pay. The fact that they continue to teach despite all the things you say they bitch about, means they care more about the students than anything else.

      grading papers all night that you didn't need to assign in the first place

      sounds like you bitter about having to do homework yourself. You know practice is how your brain actually learns and 'papers' are how you do that for most topics.

      The best teachers I ever had all had one thing in common: they were lazy.

      Best because the class was easy for you, or best because you got the most out of class. My experience was completely opposite from your statement. My best teachers (especially in college) were the ones that gave us the most difficult problem we could solve. My lab groups and I spent many, many hours outside the classroom, and the prof spent a lot of extra hours providing feedback and being available. But I learned so much from that class that I still use today.

      5 minutes before the students, left 5 minutes after, and gave their all when it counted: in the classroom, teaching

      To think that being their for just the class time is all that is needed goes against what pretty much every person who has studied teaching methods professionally.

      If a kid can pass the test, the kid has learned.

      Complete Epic fail on this one. passing a test means one thing, the student passed the test. It can (not always) mean they know nothing about the concepts at all except what is on the test. Hell, you can give them the answers, and voila, they can pass the test and know nothing (which has been in recent news for even standard testing). So, you really don't know anything you're talking about, and sound just like some bitter person who was made to go through some things that you think were irrelevant, and haven't actually understood what you did get out of those exercises. Or maybe you're special some how and know everything already, in that case, how about teaching yourself since you're obviously the only one who 'gets it'. To the point of laptops. The reason they don't affect test scores is because there is nothing in these test that requires knowledge about computers. A laptop per student won't necessarily bring new methods that help the student learn, but it does mean that those methods can start to be introduced to see if they can have an affect on test scores. The laptops are just the medium. The content is what needs to be studied.

    10. Re:Well duh by tonyreadsnews · · Score: 2

      I say this to anyone with comments like yours or the other poster. Put your money where your mouth is. Go teach for 5 years and come back and tell me that 'many' or 'most' teachers fall into the category you say. Until then, you're like the plumber who says all programmers are overpaid because every piece of software has bugs, and if they really did their job correctly, there wouldn't be problems without having a clue as to all the factors that affect the real situation. FYI, some teachers don't get even get to choose their 'methods' but as other poster have said, are forced into a curriculum that they must follow to the letter or be fired. Then later blamed when it doesn't provide the results the salesman promoted. Lastly, you say that teachers are overpaid, and then bitch about how they're clowns, tyrants, and have no knowledge. If you want better talent, how do expect to attract them? It doesn't work that way in any other business or field, why is education so special.

  2. Work and study by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    That's the only thing that contributes to increase student grades. Technology is just a tool, not a means.

    1. Re:Work and study by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Correct. Some problems can be solved by throwing money at them. People tend to think of kids the same way. With kids, the best tools are hands-on time, interest, and patience. Having access to a computer is required. Having one on their person(s) at all times is not.

    2. Re:Work and study by hedwards · · Score: 2

      Indeed, I'm not sure why laptops would increase grades on activities other than writing papers.

      OTOH, document cameras and projectors do have a much more reasonable connection to academic performance and if you get good equipment you spend it once and the maintenance costs are pretty minimal. For some things showing a short animation is just that much better than trying to explain what's happening with a lever or trying to explain how a substitution reaction works out.

    3. Re:Work and study by icebike · · Score: 2, Insightful

      There is something to be said for having the skill set you will use in the work place even at the expense of not knowing anything significant about the Battle of Jutland, or where in the world Jutland is. After all, with skill in using computers as tools, all of the other things you were supposed to learn in the 4th grade of the 4th year of college are available to you.

      The tests used today are a legacy of the past where knowing details was the focus of education. I'd much rather employ someone who knew how do do computer assisted research or build a spread sheet to calculate unit costs than someone well versed in memorized facts that are obsolete as soon as you walk out of the test hall.

      --
      Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
    4. Re:Work and study by ColdWetDog · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The tests used today are a legacy of the past where knowing details was the focus of education. I'd much rather employ someone who knew how do do computer assisted research or build a spread sheet to calculate unit costs than someone well versed in memorized facts that are obsolete as soon as you walk out of the test hall.

      That's not what you get. They're not teaching statistics and why you might want to use a pivot table.

      They're teaching Powerpoint.

      Be afraid. Be very afraid.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    5. Re:Work and study by aix+tom · · Score: 5, Insightful

      To quote from Takahata's "My Neighbors the Yamadas":

      Mother and Father doing the month's budget.

      Mother: We have to have 300 for the tutor for Noboru. (13 year old son)
      Father: What??? Give me 200, and I tutor him myself!
      Grandmonter: I'll to it for 150!
      Noboru: Just give me 100, then I promise to study harder.

    6. Re:Work and study by Doctor_Jest · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Learning how to think, being well rounded, and having a solid fundamental base (you know, doing things with a pencil and paper and calculating in one's head), makes learning a spreadsheet or computer research trivial. You're advocating tool use as a higher endeavor, and I don't think you meant to.

      Jutland isn't the end-all point of the matter... providing a rounded portfolio of knowledge and the ability to think critically, analyze things and solve problems is. And no fact of history is ever obsolete. :)

      Learning a spreadsheet in school is obsolete when the next version of Office comes out anyway.

      --
      It's the Stay-Puft Marshmallow Man.
    7. Re:Work and study by Oxford_Comma_Lover · · Score: 2

      Learning how to think, being well rounded, and having a solid fundamental base (you know, doing things with a pencil and paper and calculating in one's head), makes learning a spreadsheet or computer research trivial.

      Not really. I know people who know how to think, are well-rounded, and are quite well educated compared to most. But they didn't grow up with computers, and it takes them forever to get tasks done, and malware is a hell of a lot more than a minor annoyance for them. They find the entire process frustrating and sometimes inaccessible.

      You need to learn how to use computers, and to be an environment that has them--particularly if you're from a home that doesn't have them--but they're not the only thing you have to learn. They are not helpful for most classes, but are for some. Most of the time, they will not help in a classroom.

      --
      -- IANAL, this isn't legal advice, and definitely isn't legal advice for you. Also, Squee!
    8. Re:Work and study by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2

      Notebooks in the classroom increase corporate profits. Standardized tests increase corporate profits. Hiring good quality teachers and compensating them fairly does not increase corporate profits. Hence, anti-teacher propaganda and more centralized control, especially and curiously from the 'anti-big government' types. Effectiveness is irrelevant. Funneling tax money and tuition money to big corporations is the goal of the education administrations and politicians these days.

    9. Re:Work and study by thsths · · Score: 2, Interesting

      They're teaching Powerpoint.

      Be afraid. Be very afraid.

      Oh I am. Because you can teach concepts, ideas and topic, but not programs. That's why you teach carpentry, and not hammer. Computers are not different: you can teach writing and graphics design, but not Word and PowerPoint. The later are (poor?) tools for the former, but you have to teach the concepts, not the implementation, or you will never get anywhere.

      But the real problem is that teaching computers is cheaper. Someone (no doubt a high level school manager) must have thought that with PCs everywhere, you can use cheaper or fewer teachers. The opposite is the case: you have to teach computers in smaller cohorts, and the teachers need better training. That is at least until you have reached some basic threshold knowledge, after which kids can (given enough skills, intelligence, opportunity and perseverance) learn a lot by themselves.

      In the long term, we will get a lot better about using computers in the classroom. But for now we are the very beginning, and we are just testing different things. It is no surprise that most don't work.

    10. Re:Work and study by jawtheshark · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Those people you mention, those well-rounded, etc... etc... should have no problem sitting down with an expert and listen and understand the fundamental concepts so that malware stops being a problem. Being "well-rounded" includes having learned how to learn.

      My mom would qualify as one of those well-rounded people and she never had an interest in computers whatsoever even though her husband and all her children were into computers (everyone of her kids on a different level. My brother is a gamer, my sister a power user and I'm a computer scientist). Only when she discovered digital photography and email, she wanted to learn it and she grasped the concepts pretty quickly. She was in her early fifties then. Malware never was a problem, because I explained (duh!) basic Internet behaviour and risks to her. She's been migrated to Linux later, and the adaptation was no big deal.

      The key factors here are "wanting to learn" and "having access to someone who can explain".

      --
      Ahhh...the great dumpster continuum. Many a free computer will be found there. -- sowth (748135)
    11. Re:Work and study by dgatwood · · Score: 3, Insightful

      ... but the busywork that schools require in order to receive top marks is astounding. That busywork, typically, is to force people to learn what they don't want to learn.

      The bigger problem is that the busywork doesn't stop once you have learned it. I got good grades through school, but only because my parents made me actually do the work. I don't think I got much at all out of most of the homework I did during K-12, with the exception of higher-level math in 8th-12th, French class, high school English (writing), and some of the high school science classes.

      It was pure tedium. Half the time, I'd make simple math mistakes (get all the multiplication right, and screw up the simple addition at the end, or misread a minus as a plus or vice versa) because I was so bored out of my mind that I was concentrating on anything and everything but what I was doing. Increasing the amount of practice just made me more bored and more likely to make sloppy, basic mistakes. And there is absolutely no pedagogical technique more annoying then forcing students to "show their work" when they otherwise could have done the entire problem in their heads. Grr. I got more answers wrong over the years because of the long-form pedantry than I can count.

      Busywork, by definition, is not useful. If it really is busywork, its purpose is to keep people busy. The worst part of it was the resentment it caused. The people who didn't care about grades were out playing and having fun while we were stuck inside because they gave us more homework than the other classes. The folks who didn't need the homework got more, while the people who needed the practice got less because it was assumed that they wouldn't bother to do it anyway. And this is why I've said for at least a decade that homework is completely and utterly useless in its current form, and should be abolished.

      I failed AP history in high school, because I didn't want to sit there memorizing paragraphs of useless information.

      Agreed. And this is what happens when you have AP classes whose primary goal is to teach to a test. Instead of making history come alive, it becomes rote memorization of specific details that you'll need to be able to regurgitate when it comes test time.

      It isn't important to know history; it is important to understand history—to know the lessons that it teaches us so that we don't make the same mistakes twice. Does anybody need to know the exact date when the Civil War ended? No. Heck, unless you're tying it to the social issues of the time period, it's not even that important to know what century it occurred in. It suffices to know that it was some time between the American Revolution and the first World War. What is important is how it changed our country, what the issues were, what people at the time claimed the issues were, and so on. If all you know are names and dates, then you've completely missed the boat.

      --

      Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

    12. Re:Work and study by BlueStrat · · Score: 2

      Correct. Some problems can be solved by throwing money at them.

      Care to name one?

      I'll go one step further. Some problems can be solved only by throwing money at them. Poverty, for example. There is provably no other way to solve poverty. Indeed, it is tautologically so....

      "Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish, he will eat for a lifetime."

      Throwing money (monthly/weekly checks) at the poor alone solves nothing (except political strategies) and creates dependency. It doesn't solve poverty. You've only created a poor person with some temporary cash...which oftentimes doesn't work out well. It's why there are so many liquor stores and drug dealers operating in poor areas.

      The only things that ever solve poverty on larger scales are and have always been motivation, opportunity, and the freedom to pursue them. Anything else is not only doomed to failure, it is a waste of resources for the society and guarantees that poverty continues or worsens.

      Government cannot "solve poverty" any more than it can "create wealth". It can only increase, spread, and/or perpetuate poverty. Only the impoverished individuals themselves may relieve their poverty through motivation, opportunity, and freedom. Three things government always has a damping effect upon.

      Strat

      --
      Progressivism (aka US 'Liberalism'): Ideas so good they need a police/surveillance-state to enforce.
    13. Re:Work and study by hairyfeet · · Score: 2

      Sadly you are wrong. you see you are thinking like a geek, and "if they can do X, then they can learn Y" but that is like saying because i can play a bass I can trivially learn to play the Oboe.

      You see as someone who actually builds and repairs PCs I have found many VERY damned smart people that you might as well be speaking Chinese when it comes to PCs. they simply can not get their head around many of the concepts. if someone would have started them earlier it would probably be a lot easier now, but once they get past mid 20s trying to teach them anything more than how to get to a website is nothing but frustration, for you AND for them.

      So I'm all for it, teach them basic file commands, teach them to get around and do basic tasks like check for errors or security best practices. I can tell you it gave my boys a BIG advantage in school because while the others were having to type everything in typewriters and use a ton of white out, because neither they nor their parents knew shit about PCs mine were handing in nice papers with graphics and references.

      The only trouble we ever had was from a teacher who likewise didn't understand tech, she accused my oldest of cheating because "you have all these facts and you don't own a dictionary!". I just went to the principal and said 'Is she for real?" and handed the boy my laptop. he had 5 different sites open on whichever subject she wanted checking them for cross references and making sure the sites had accurate data.

      But it really does make a difference. my oldest is now in pre-med and while there are others that are having to have remedial computer courses just to get them up to speed on what teachers expect he is just blowing through it. Having the ability to use a PC and do research and other basic computer and web tasks really does matter IRL and sadly once they get above a certain age trying to teach it to them is like trying to pick up Mandarin for someone who has never even heard the language. possible? Yes. In any way shape or form easier than pulling teeth? not a chance friend.

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    14. Re:Work and study by BlueStrat · · Score: 2

      You, sir, don't know history.

      I disagree. History demonstrates again and again the truth of my statements.

      government can hire people to do things that need to be done

      Government must first take wealth away from others attempting to create wealth, thereby decreasing their ability to do so and benefit others, pay for the administrative/governmental costs, then use a portion of what remains to hire and pay wages. It's the broken-window fallacy.

      Government can create wealth by granting monopolies, contracts or protecting trademarks and copyrights.

      That is not "creating" wealth. The first two in particular (government monopolies/contracts) are redistribution of existing wealth. The second part (copyright & trademark) are simply regulation.

      The reason US businesses are increasingly shipping jobs and even the entire business itself overseas is that the government has created an environment that makes it easier and more profitable to do so.

      The rest of your post appears to be little more than class warfare, which has been discredited and debunked repeatedly through history by far greater intellects than anyone here or in government currently.

      Strat

      --
      Progressivism (aka US 'Liberalism'): Ideas so good they need a police/surveillance-state to enforce.
  3. Distractions by EvilGiraffe · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Exterior of a computer skills classes, which are obviously important in their own right, all this tech does is increase student distraction. I'm a bit surprised they aren't tracking a DECLINE in test scores in all other areas of learning, really.

    1. Re:Distractions by TaoPhoenix · · Score: 2

      Sorry, I must disagree.

      What learning tech early does, is teach the kid "it's okay to use tech". Simple, and as scary, as that.

      Teachers desperately cling to Grades because they have no other metrics.

      In the modern business world, you have tons of older workers who "know stuff" but can't extract a file off an email. It's at least worth a try to let the kid spend some time playing with tech, because tech is the wave of the future.

      Put a little facetiously, we don't need to know factoids anymore because you can just Google it now. And if you can't Google it, you can post it to a forum and get it in 12 hours.

      So let the kid learn to type, and then the few bright ones will wonder what a computer does...

      And THERE is your future workforce.

      --
      My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
    2. Re:Distractions by DogDude · · Score: 5, Insightful

      "In the modern business world, you have tons of older workers who "know stuff" but can't extract a file off an email. It's at least worth a try to let the kid spend some time playing with tech, because tech is the wave of the future."

      In the modern business world, you have tons of younger workers who can barely compose an email using correct English, but can extract a file off [sic] an email.

      As an employer, do you think it's be easier to work around people who might have technology questions, or those who don't have a good grasp on basic math and English skills?

      --
      I don't respond to AC's.
    3. Re:Distractions by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 2

      ... the question still stands:

      Your question is a false dilemma. Go back and read the summary. The students with the laptops got the same grades. So they are learning tech skills while doing just as well in math and English. There is no tradeoff.

    4. Re:Distractions by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Look out, it's a CEO! Let's get him before he activates his golden parachute and escapes.

  4. It's just a tool. by amiga3D · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Computers by themselves are not magic teachers. They wont replace quality teachers but they can with proper application assist in education. I think most of the problem with computers in school is that people have the wrong expectations. It's just a tool. Like any tool you have to know how to use it properly and what it can and can not do.

    1. Re:It's just a tool. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      As a public school teacher who teaches students to certify in IT, I can point to some problems:

      1) Teachers don't know how to properly use the technology.
      2) The technology distracts students from classroom content.
      3) Schools generally fail to filter out distracting content. Most students know how to use Ultrasurf, and proxies to bypass lame block lists.
      4) There is little engaging educational content available for the technology. The major exceptions are Cisco Academy and Khan Academy.
      5) Most of what we teach to students is useless crap. We need to step back analyze educational content for real world usability.

      Technology is not the problem. The educational paradigm needs to be challenged.

  5. No, really? by ArchieBunker · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Who would have thought giving kids an even bigger distraction would not increase grades? Kids today can barely sit still and concentrate on one task at a time let alone sit in front of a laptop and be expected to only take notes. What kids really need now is someone to tell them to sit down, shut up, and listen. If a disruptive student doesn't want to be there then they should be able to leave. Forcing them to be there is not helping them or anyone else who is trying to learn.

    --
    Only the State obtains its revenue by coercion. - Murray Rothbard
    1. Re:No, really? by Opportunist · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I had a teacher in high school who'd simply send you out of the classroom if you disrupted the lesson. You needn't be here, you can as well be someone else, get the fuck out of my class. I'm your teacher, not your nanny, and I don't give half a shit where and how you learn what's up for the next test. You can learn it here, or you can try it on your own, you needn't listen.

      His lessons were also by some margin the most productive ones. He didn't spend half the hour trying to calm down the class.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    2. Re:No, really? by Kjella · · Score: 2

      What kids really need now is someone to tell them to sit down, shut up, and listen. If a disruptive student doesn't want to be there then they should be able to leave.

      Depends on what age you're talking, but when you say "kids" I would think that's probably not so good an idea. First off you're not thinking much about the future as a kid, it's all about the here and now. Secondly you'll have much more social pressure to skip class. Finally you'll have plenty premature optimization like "I want to be a firefighter so I don't need all those other subjects, I'll just run around outside and pretend to be a firefighter." And if there's anything work life doesn't need it's more princesses who think everything should be elective, that only want to do the fun and interesting bits of the job.

      Learning is often a struggling experience, mastering something is a good feeling but the process is often frustrating. Honestly I think your parents and school has to push you a little before you mature enough to challenge yourself, your solution sounds a bit like "let the kid choose if he wants sweets or vegetables". Then again, the slimness hysteria have now reached even little girls so maybe they won't take the sweets anyway, but for all the wrong reasons. Now teenagers are a different matter, I'm pretty sure the forced learning helped them get more normal lives but it sure didn't help all the rest of us that were there.

      Honestly my biggest problem with school is that there was no ability to excel, no ability to progress, everybody is pacing along at the same level that matches the bottom 20% or so, even then some managed to fall behind. I wish there were tests that said yes, I know fifth grade math so that I could "legally" ignore the teacher that for the third time is trying to explain something I understood months or years ago. I'm chronically lazy and I think school had a lot to do with it, there I learned working hard gets you "busy work" and nothing else.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
  6. what test scores? by The+Dawn+Of+Time · · Score: 2

    What sort of valid conclusions can one draw from tracking test scores over time? And why is the immediate reaction "blame the tool"?

    1. Re:what test scores? by mellon · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I think the immediate reaction is "stop wasting money." For some reason we can afford to buy kids laptops, but can't afford to make teaching a high-paying job. And yet we expect excellent results. The only way laptops can help students to learn is if they help teachers to teach more effectively. I.e., the laptop in the students' hands is a tool for the teacher, not the student. But that's not how laptops are being used.

  7. I remember the same arguments about Calculators. by tysonedwards · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I remember the same arguments about calculators, and how they were going to dramatically cause a significant increase in every student's test scores by simply giving them the right answers, and thereby prevent them from gaining the true understanding that they would need to succeed in the world.

    The end result was that rather than having people solve very simplistic problems that they could actually pull off in a 4x4-inch section of paper, students were to solve far more complex problems that actually test their understanding of what they are attempting to do instead of their grasp over carrying a 1.

    Bottom line is that as long as we have people who say "I'm computer illiterate" and then laugh, then there is still work to be done to enable people to be successful in the world.

    --
    Thirty four characters live here.
  8. Tech is wasted in current schools by jmorris42 · · Score: 2

    Schools should not be wasting time and money on tech until they can get reading writing and basic math right. Without those none of the rest matter.

    And I have yet to be convinced that handing out Macs (and it is ALWAYS Apple who wins these school contracts) does one damned thing to improve education, other than twitter and facebook skills of course.... future employers are going to be hungering for that.... NOT.

    I think it is possible to use tech to make a better education process, but that the American education system is wholly unsuited to making the fundamental change in mindset required. So quit wasting money until we are ready to blow it up and start over. In case nobody has noticed the country is broke.

    --
    Democrat delenda est
    1. Re:Tech is wasted in current schools by jmorris42 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      > Define what you consider to be getting those three items right.

      We know what 'right' looks like. A hundred years ago students knew a lot more than a student does now at any grade level. If you haven't seen it go find and watch Ken Burn's documentary on the "Civil War". Besides being a good program on the subject observe his use of letters from the soldiers. Not just officers from the landed gentry class but enlisted men writing letters home to their wives and sweethearts. Observe the literacy, the firm command of grammar and well developed vocabularies without spell checkers or even pocket dictionaries. Observe the advanced grasp of philosophical, religious and political theory. Observe their ability to reference and quote at length from the core works of the western literary tradition, again without aid of reference works or Google.

      They were a people worthy of receiving the blessings of liberty. We lost both, there is a lesson here.

      > I'll leave aside the problems of getting reading, writing, and math without technology to you simply not
      > realizing the full impact of what you were saying.

      You need no more technology than the printing press, pencil and blackboard to teach reading, writing and math in a K-12 environment. Do I think it possible to use technology to actually improve on the achievements of our forebearers? Yes, but not with the current school system in the grip of the educrats, politically correct dogmists and unions. So barring the political will to rip and replace a failed system I say at least waste no additional resources on a failure.

      > The poor get disproportionately less benefits than the rich do.

      The poor are also disproportionally less productive than the rich. Amazing how that works. Sitting on yer illiterate ass waiting for the mailman is a losing game. Who would have figured that. However there are NO poor in America. Look in the third world sometime, those people are poor. Our poor are obese. Seriously, obesity is the number one health problem for the 'poor' in America according to your beloved government's statistics. Sorry, but if you have a smart phone you are not poor. If you have cable TV you aren't poor. If you have multiple flat screen TVs in your house you aren't poor. This scam of defining a fixed percentage of the US population as 'poor' has to stop. We fought a "War on Poverty" and won. Too bad we destroyed the country in the process and now almost everyone is likely to soon be poor because of it.

      Despite the governments' attempts to make America 'just another country' it is still possible for anyone who really wants to put in the effort to succeed. Being in the bottom of the wealth distribution isn't something you are born into and must accept until death. Stay in school, even if they are crappy, read the whole textbook including the parts the teacher never gets around to, keep yer genitals in your pants until you find someone of the moral fiber to marry and stay married to, get a job, any job and start clawing. Do those things and the odds are achieving at least the middle class are very good.

      > Also, the country is not broke.

      Spoke like a true product of the American education system. We are indeed broke. Our government is spending far more than it could possibly ever raise through taxes. Any attempt to even try would destroy what economic activity remains and result in less revenue than is coming in now. The problem isn't a lack of tax revenue, it is vastly increased spending compared too historical trends. And worse we have made commitments in social security/medicare, state pensions, etc. that can't possibly be kept. We can't just keep borrowing from China either because a) they won't keep loaning forever without a price we won't pay and b) they are boned too and won't be able to loan us much more even if they wanted to.

      --
      Democrat delenda est
    2. Re:Tech is wasted in current schools by swalve · · Score: 2

      Yes, it is quite surprising that there aren't any letters from the illiterate soldiers laying around.

  9. This is important to know! by MobyDisk · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This is very important research because test scores are the only measure of a child's success! Experience with real life tools are irrelevant. Keeping students engaged isn't important.

    Putting my tongue-in-cheek assessment aside, not every investment immediately yields an increase in test scores: nor should we only invest in things that do. Test scores are important, but they are not the only measure of a student's success. In 10 years no one will look back and say that adding laptops to schools was a bad idea any more than they will tell us that adding light bulbs or bathrooms was a bad idea. Technology moves forward, and schools should keep up or risk their test scores going down. It won't be too long before every 4-year-old has a portable computer of some kind.

    1. Re:This is important to know! by vlm · · Score: 2

      Experience with real life tools are irrelevant.

      Three things are provided in school
      1) Experience
      2) Training
      3) Education

      For experience, these computers are useless. I got some awesome "Bank Street Writer" experience on a commodore 64 back in kindergarten. 12 years later when I graduated, no one cared. About 18 years later when I got "a real job" where word processing skills were required, it was even less useful. Computers are not unchanging inanimate objects like hammers in carpentry class.

      For training, see above. I had to sit thru MS Excel classes and was tested on memorization of obscure menu options. Complete waste of time. You're an expert on office? Not anymore, hello "ribbon".

      For education, I'm not entirely sure computers are necessary, even to teach computer science. Far too many "CS education classes" are the equivalent of memorizing how to create pivot tables in Excel and memorizing obscure unused corners of C++ libraries.

      Computer are very important to signal to fools that the district cares about the kids, because they are showering money on them. Improving education would require a different approach, like more teachers aide hours, more specialist educators, smaller class sizes by hiring more teachers in general, etc. Gadget of the month? Eh not so useful.

      --
      "Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
  10. Technology is useless... by giuseppemag · · Score: 4, Interesting

    ...when you keep teaching the same boring crap in the most boring way. Yes, even with laptops, iPads, projectors and all the bells and whistles.

    Actually, I do know what I am talking about: I teach/research functional programming and game development, and guess what? I use the latter when teaching the former, to make it more entertaining. More than one student, after one such lesson, approached me to tell me that he was quite surprised to find that functional programming could actually be "fun" (pun intended).

    The problem is that students are surprised when something is shown in a fun and entertaining fashion, and they accept it when stale notions are pushed down their throats. I'd start by fixing this...

    --
    My book: Friendly F#, fun with game development and XNA; my game: Galaxy Wars by VSTeam; my gamedev language: Casanova.
  11. More Distractions by cosm · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I am currently taking senior level physics classes at one of the big universities, and I can say that at the undergraduate and graduate level, laptops are not a boon to learning. Walking into any of the higher level science lectures and the last thing you will see is a laptop. Its usually just pencil and paper and perhaps a sparse open book. Working quickly through the professor's QCD problems on the board is not easier with a computer, unless perhaps you are a master of putting in equations and such in digital format. Same applies for partial differential equations, set theory, number theory, analysis, and all those other symbolic math classes. As my professors say, computers are just useful idiots. They aren't going to teach you anything new, only the programmer can 'teach' the computer new methods of approximating problems.

    Now in my labs, yes, computers come into play quite a bit, MatLab, Fortran, C++, etc. for modelling large systems, of course they make massive calculation sets easier, but for a fundamental understanding of Minkowski space-time, Hilbert Spaces, etc, just having a web-connected machine in front of you during the lecture is not going to make the class that much easier. Having an innate desire to understand the fundamentals is key. Naturally having many open doors available for obtaining the information is helpful, but for the classic situation in which you have a quality professor spewing content, its usually easier (for me at least, YMMV) to leave the laptop at the house.

    Sounds like another 'lets throw enough money into the technology and hope the problem goes away'. As far as K12 education goes in the states, well, I have to speculate that 90% of the students would love a laptop in the classroom, just not for the learning part. One man's opinion.

    --
    'We are trying to prove ourselves wrong as quickly as possible, because only in that way can we find progress.' RPF
    1. Re:More Distractions by skine · · Score: 2

      The reason the vast majority of math and science students use pen and paper is that many of the symbols used in math and science classes are nontrivial to type. As a math student, it took me two years of learning LaTeX before I felt confident enough to bring my laptop to class.

      Pen and paper is not inherently better, just easier.

  12. If for nothing but.. by SuperCharlie · · Score: 3, Insightful

    If all they do is decrease the insane cost of books then its a win.

  13. Re:I remember the same arguments about Calculators by Lemmy+Caution · · Score: 4, Insightful

    But to use a calculator, you need the foundational skills and understanding that underlie the problems they help solve. Computers are essentially media devices now: just like you don't need to know how TVs work to watch TV, you need understand nothing about computers to use them. And they are very distracting.

    I think they have a role in the classroom. But I think that role is overemphasized and a lot of "I'm a hammer-expert, and that's a nail" thinking from people in the tech sector is wasting a lot of resources in education that could be spent much better.

  14. An teacher's opinion by giltwist · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I learned how to use DOS at the same time I learned how to read. In fact, some of my earliest memories include a luggage-sized computer with a three-inch monochrome monitor. Today, I spend the vast majority of my free time at my computer desk. I can program in several computer languages. My desktop dual-boots 64-bit versions of Windows 7 and Ubuntu 10.4, and I am even typing this essay on an ergonomic keyboard that I brought from home. I am, to use a term coined a decade ago, a digital native. So, when I look at the state instructional technology today, I am both impressed at the technological progress over the course of my lifetime and utterly disgusted by the shortcomings of its implementation in our society.

    Foremost among my concerns is the mind-boggling disparity in access to technology, particularly across socio-economic status. I can point to you on a map two schools within mere miles of each other where one has SMART boards in every classroom and the other did not even have a classroom set of calculators available to me as a math teacher. That is only just digital technology. On a far more fundamental level, I can point to a different set of two nearby schools where one has automatic-flush toilets and the other had such frequent plumbing problems to a point that drinking from the water fountain was risky business. I simply do not feel that I can ethically spend time researching Facebook or the iPad as instructional technologies when not every student in the public education system has access to comfortable and healthy analog technologies like air conditioning.

    Another issue that gives me significant pause is Mooreâ(TM)s Law. Technology is advancing at a prodigiously exponential rate, to the point that futurists predict an upcoming event dubbed the Singularity at which technology will progress faster than society can cope with its evolution. I am particularly fond of a TED talk given by Ray Kurzweil on the topic of the integration of technology with the body, particularly the part on an already-possible synthetic red blood cell which would, to paraphrase Kurzweil, allow the average teenager to regularly outperform todayâ(TM)s Olympic athletes. Even the advent of internet-enabled phones has caused notable distress among teachers. I can not even imagine the discord when the technology is implantable and can not be turned off or confiscated. On the other hand, the standardized management paradigm behind the OGT and the SAT would finally collapse, so it would not be all bad. I digress.

    Looking only at today, I question why the research on technology on Second Life as an educational venue is only in its infancy when that particular medium has begun to be replaced by other, newer alternatives like Free Realms. Similarly, Facebook is being replaced by Twitter and Diaspora just as Facebook replaced MySpace replaced Livejournal replaced Xanga replaced Geocities. Honestly, Facebook is so passé that even governmental agencies have investigated its use. I forget which one, but just a few months ago around ten red balloons were placed at random locations across the continental United States. All of them were found within about eight hours. My point is that research that focuses on a specific technology in response to a cultural fad is doomed to failure from the start. By the time anything practical made its way to teachers, students would already be offended by the outdatedness of it.

    The third problem that I have with instructional technology is that there is far to much emphasis on innovation and far too little on revision. Take the TI-nspire. Look, it now includes a computer algebra system but has a terrible user interface, and just as math teachers were starting to get comfortable with the idea of allowing graphing calculators in the classroom, we have made the technology even more powerful â" re-emphasizing the original concerns about the calculators doing all the work. Similarly, take all these new educational iPad apps on top of the virtual man

  15. Re:In general, yes. by Samantha+Wright · · Score: 2

    The student needs to work to find out how he/she learns best for each subject and apply that/those technique(s).

    Unfortunately, most middle-school students (the story uses an example of seventh-graders) aren't too good at resisting temptation or being sufficiently introspective. I think the real issue is that parents and teachers are trying to apply the (failed) "abandon children in front of television" parenting approach to education.

    --
    Bio questions? Ask me to start a Q&A journal. Computer analogies available for most topics!
  16. Wasted technology in the classroom by shastamonk · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I work for the local public school district as a tech responsible for setting up and maintaining computer labs and classroom and staff equipment, and every year we keep piling on more and more equipment -- for example, our classrooms now have two Macbooks for every teacher, one for their digital projector/whiteboard and one for their desk, document cameras, clickers, ipads/ipods and the like. The majority of the teachers, save some of the younger 30 crowd, tend to only use equipment that has some analogue to previous technology they grew up with (think using document cameras and digital projectors as replacements for the old projector overheads), and the vast majority goes unused or only infrequently used for the most rudimentary purposes. The amount of money being spent on technology for teachers that won't make use of it is staggering. Even the younger teachers only scratch the surface of what can be done to engage their students with the technology they've been provided. In my opinion, some (most?) districts have a fire and forget attitude towards technology: they provide the equipment, but very little in the way of instructional support and software to use, such as device specific applications and online courseware. And when you look at the ridiculously high prices for district wide purchases of licenses for these things, it's no wonder. Aside from Smartboard/Interwrite whiteboard lessons, there's little in the way of cheap or free and widely available instruction material developed for interactive classrooms, and until that changes, and the trailing generations of teachers retire, a lot of taxpayer money is being wasted.

  17. Re:Teachers don't use technology properly by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Umm, have you ever actually interacted with teachers RE: technology?

    I'm sure that there are exceptions who actually have the economic views you assert(and I've definitely met exceptions who simply know fuck-all about technology and really don't want to start now; but the latter group is, in the face of retirement and replacement by 20-somethings who've been using laptops for at least their entire undergrand, a self-solving problem); but my experience during the times I've worked in educational IT is that teachers are either very enthusiastic about technology, or simple technophobes without some sinister union plot motive.

    There exists automated drilling and assessment software for, among other things, elementary mathematics instruction. The math department came to us asking for an implementation, and we can't keep up with the demand for in-classroom computers to support the stuff. The music department, for their part, has enthusiastically adopted a rather neat automated system that can analyze the deviations of a student playing an instrument from the desired waveforms for a piece. Art? We haven't been able to afford Wacoms for the lab; but they voluntarily branched out into digital raster-image editing...

    There are some perverse elements of educational union politicking; but my work with the IT department never once ran into opposition on teacher-economic grounds.

  18. As someone who worked IT in one of these schools by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The problem is, schools are looking for a "silver bullet" for their scores. Buy this thing, scores improve. Nothing like that actually exists in reality, though. Schools are full of expensive technology that doesn't get used because the teachers can't be bothered to use it, or because the IT department is behind and hasn't got it functioning yet, or because it is difficult/inconvenient to use because of limited access or overly restrictive security measures.

    If you DO want to implement some fancy new program, here's what you need:

    First and foremost, you have to have teachers on board. If the teachers are resisting the new technology, it isn't going to be worth your time to try to force it on them. Get rid of the teachers, abandon the technology, but don't foist a bunch of tech on teachers that don't want it. It will be a waste of everyone's time.

    Also, you have to think through your actions. Get the students on your side, and get them to buy in to the program. The tech department that I was working at tried to lock down the computers to a pretty extreme level. Time restrictions, draconian internet filtering (even at home), and random screen watching during the day. The end result was that the students felt like the laptops were worthless, and simultaneously had a big incentive to work around the blocks in place. People act like you expect them to act, and we essentially told the students that we viewed them as semi-criminal, irresponsible delinquents. Plus, anybody who has used a Live CD knows that it takes about 30 seconds to bypass even the most bulletproof software restrictions, as long as you have physical access. You can imagine how that turned out.

    Finally, you have to have something to DO with the laptops. You can't just drop them in classrooms and wait. You need to essentially build your entire curriculum around the laptops to make them appreciably better than the normal, boring computer lab. Have a research based, directed, cohesive plan for how and why the laptops are being used, and they might actually be worth your while.

    It's kind of sad, because a well-funded technology plan could be an amazing tool. In properly implemented programs, they've shown that laptops CAN have a big, positive impact, especially for gifted and talented kids who can all of a sudden direct their own learning to a greater extent. However, throwing money at a problem almost never fixes it. You need good people, good strategy, and the resources to support them.

  19. Re:In general, yes. by oursland · · Score: 2

    When virtual reality is possible, the student can learn history by "being there".

    They can learn what an artist's version of history is. This can probably be done better than the standard textbooks, but it also makes rewriting history easier and more real than the truth written in some book.

  20. Content creation by Lord+Byron+II · · Score: 3, Insightful

    You don't become a great artist by looking at great paintings. You get there by painting all the time. You don't become a mathematician by watching the instructor. You get there by doing the homework. You don't become a famous author by reading Jane Austin and Mark Twain. You get there by writing.

    In every case, the thing you must do is create content. However, that's almost impossible on tablets (no keyboard), hard on laptops (small keyboard, no real mouse), and even slightly challenging on desktops (ever try typing out a complex mathematical equation in Latex?).

    Today's latest and greatest systems (I'm looking at you, iPad) are really geared toward content consumption, not creation. We should focus more on making it easy for kids to express themselves and then give them the tools that do that.

  21. Computers are not distracting by SuperKendall · · Score: 2

    Computers are essentially media devices now: just like you don't need to know how TVs work to watch TV, you need understand nothing about computers to use them. And they are very distracting.

    Computers are not distracting. Computers are tools. If distracting software or content is allowed on the computers, then yes they are a distraction... school computers, during class, should probably not be connected to the internet (or at least not allow browsing).

    Computers are a fantastic tool and there's no reason to think they cannot improve education if the right approach is taken. But just dumping a computer in a classroom without figuring out just what the approach should be makes no sense.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
  22. Misses the point by retroworks · · Score: 2

    A track at the school does not make fat kids skinny. It does, however, support runners at the school. A swimming pool at the city park does not teach children to swim, either. But access to a public pool levels the playing field between kids who get private lessons and those who cannot. Anyone who thinks expenditures on track and field make kids thin doesn't understand that the access is directed to the top of the class - the runners, swimmers, and computer illiterates. It's no different than paying the salary of a teacher when only 50% of the kids are listening or doing their homework. Laptops, and teachers, are provided so that the students who CAN and WILL pay attention and benefit from them have access to them, the other 50% of students can go to hell and take the schools GPA average with them.

    --
    Gently reply
  23. Re:In general, yes. by perpenso · · Score: 4, Insightful

    When virtual reality is possible, the student can learn history by "being there"

    I have family members who lived through *major* historical events. Being there didn't tell them why they were there nor why it was so important nor what was happening a few miles away and how that impacted them. They didn't really understand the big picture until I shared some of that old fashioned college book learning with them.

    History is not merely a record of what happened, it also considers the various things that influenced what happened. The real work and study is often in the later.

  24. Re:Luckily... by sgt+scrub · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The learning process is driven by the teachers

    I'd argue the learning process is driven by interest in the subject. IMHO, giving each kid a laptop doesn't generate interest in any subject.

    --
    Having to work for a living is the root of all evil.
  25. Re:It's not the laptops. It's the classroom. by jawtheshark · · Score: 2

    "There's the jacket you wanted for 640 in the shop in the mall, you see it for 520 online, but the store at the mall has a sale where everything's slashed by 20%, is it worth heading down to the mall or is it still more expensive than online?"

    That depends... Shipping and handling included in the online offer, and how much does it cost me to get to the mall? How about your ecological impact? Do you value being able to have the product in your hands before you buy, etc, etc, etc.... There is no 'right' answer to this question, one you really start to look at the big picture. A teen obviously won't do that, I'm just teasing you a bit.

    I don't think fashion oriented questions like these would have motivated me when I was a kid ;-)

    --
    Ahhh...the great dumpster continuum. Many a free computer will be found there. -- sowth (748135)
  26. Wrong idea by mighty7sd · · Score: 2

    Are the commenters forgetting that in low-income areas, many students don't have computers or internet at home, and their parents don't care enough to take them to the library. Therefore, they don't do homework. These tools are for use outside of class.

  27. Re:In general, yes. by adamofgreyskull · · Score: 2

    I have family members who lived through *major* historical events. Being there didn't tell them why they were there nor why it was so important nor what was happening a few miles away and how that impacted them.

    +1 to your point but not sure how it invalidates the idea of "VR learning" as, personally, I think it would depend on the presentation. You're right, being able to put individual events in context is only possible by looking at the bigger picture, but "VR learning" could help put a human face on history. The post you're replying to is trying to make the general point that laptops alone are not enough, but that laptops + content = learning.

    To second your "being there" comment though: During WW2, my grandmother worked as a switchboard operator at the cabinet war rooms and spoke with (and even met) VIPs of the time like Churchill. She freely admits that she often had to be told "who that was" after the event by her friends who knew. She has amazing, and often worrying, stories, like being "chased" around the garden by some italian airmen who being de-briefed at the same country house where she was having her R&R. Or jumping into a Kent hedgerow with a man to avoid a bomb dropped by a bomber on its return flight from London. One night, coming back from a dance, a man invited her and her friend to "see something really special", luckily, he only took them up to the roof of a nearby roof so they could watch London burning... Another night, she went out dancing and was asked to dance by a black GI, when a British officer came over and broke them up. Another time a Texan pilot tried to "woo" her with nylons and hand-towels ("you couldn't get nice ones during the war you know") but when she found out he was married she told him to give the ring he'd bought to his wife. There are some other really atypical experiences but her wartime experience is a weirdly convenient microcosm of a lot of stereotypical wartime experiences.

    So, she has a "rich" (by which I mean, lurid) and interesting personal history to tell, but she couldn't tell you (and probably couldn't even have told you at the time) about tank movements, air drops, strategy, tactics, intelligence gathering, counter-espionage, etc. (Just as, I imagine, most soldiers in Iraq or Afghanistan couldn't tell you about those higher-level details.) So, like you, I don't see VR ever replacing traditional history education but it would be a great complementary experience. After all, that's part of the reason why history teachers take children on school trips to the cabinet war rooms, the Somme or medieval castles.(Or civil war re-enactments for U.S-ians.)

  28. If they have to set them up themselves... by ad1217 · · Score: 2

    I was using the family computer (windows XP) for a while. I knew some things about how to use it, but not much. When I found an old (1990s-ish) laptop, and set it up with windows 98, I learned many more things about how the hardware and software of a computer work. When I got my own laptop, then a year later switched to Linux, I learned quite a bit more. Since then, I have become much better with computers, as I tried new things and had to fix everything I broke. Working with the terminal and C made me a much better typer than any software program. Having to set up each thing with very little outside support really taught me a lot. If the kids just get the computers with everything set up, and someone to fix it when it breaks, it will not help them a lot.

  29. I guarantee by jjohnson · · Score: 2

    That their test scores for computer literacy are higher in classrooms where they're actually using computers, rather than cardboard boxes with keyboards drawn on them.

    --
    Anyone who loves or hates any language, platform, or manufacturer, doesn't know what they're talking about.
  30. laptops... by tchall · · Score: 2

    It may be irrelevant, but when I was teaching "Intro to Computers" (COBOL) as a sub... the class got weirded out when I had them move to the boards in the classroom and start writing programs OFF the computer...

    The whole class got to discuss four students work at the same time... and it only took a couple of class sessions till they remembered to leave the computers off till the lesson and it's review on the boards was done...

    I was just a sub, and unfortunately had no written guidance so I took it slow and easy, making sure that the students "got it" before moving on...

    It seemed slow paced to me anyway, but I made sure they knew the current stuff before we added things... Really it's the only way I know to teach...

    Before the end of my time there some of the students just kept up and some were using ASCII art, colors, and sounds...(BEL)

    Some didn't get it at all (and I wondered WHY they picked a computer class) some needed both the lectures, examples, and cross feed of other students helping them improve their code (which wasn't gonna happen on a PC) and some would have had to be chased from the classroom with a stick to KEEP them from learning so I concentrated on the middle group... When the regular teacher got back to work they kept me on for another week to get her up to speed on where I'd taken her classes (this one and Systems Analysis 4XX)

    Her only gripe was that I'd covered the whole semester's in a little over a month...

    Which leads me to believe that we might be doing better for the next generation just TEACHING a subject well than throwing all the expensive toys in the world at it...

    Hard to hand code OO projects in high level languages when they depend on a GUI to put it all together... but understanding the BASICS first has gotta help!!!

  31. Re:Luckily... by rtb61 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    More importantly the grading process is driven by grades. If everyone gets a A+ your grading way to easy. So ideally you should grade to a sliding scale, so that some get A+ and some fail. This is normal and to be expected just like 100 IQ being the average should also gain an average grade, those below needing to do more work to pass and those above tending to cruise or work harder and achieve higher grades.

    Latops in classrooms should ideally replace textbooks and allow more to be taught in the area of socio-economics, law and political understanding. Simulations can also be used to provide greater understanding of complex interactions.

    The never ending problem I have found with computers is the majority treat them like a magic box and just like a magic box it will do the work for them, learn for them and understand for them. Beware the magic box will not make learning anything else easier, it fact it will make it harder because you also have to learn how to use the magic box. Computer make information more accessible they do not make it easier to learn (a higher IQ does that).

    Computers can of course be used to more effectively tailor the learning experience to the IQ of the children, providing challenges for those with higher IQ and providing more help for those with problems. They could be used to accelerate the smartest through the education process, allowing them to graduate early and move on.

    --
    Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
  32. Learning to google by eru.penkman · · Score: 2

    Children growing up today have something that we didn't: all of the worlds information at their fingertips in a matter of seconds. The most important thing we can teach them is how to find and utilize this information. Such skills can be taught with excellent English, computer literacy and advanced searching; how to piece together knowledge from multiple sources, how to find a good tutorial and apply it to what you're doing. Then teachers can get on with their real job: inspire students to take up a challenge then watch them excel.

  33. Re:Luckily... by Lemmy+Caution · · Score: 2

    The use of simulations and games to teach complex models is excellent, but it's real stretch from that to a laptop-on-every-desk all-the-time. Part of learning is learning the management of one's attention.