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EU Sending a Probe To the Sun

Posted by samzenpus on from the hot-science dept.

First time accepted submitter Mindflux0 writes "The European Union is going forward with the proposed Solar Orbiter, a space probe designed to study the sun. The probe will orbit closer to the sun than any other man-made object at a sizzling 42 million km. It's planned to launch in 2017 for close to a billion euros."

97 of 160 comments (clear)

  1. 2 minutes and 20 seconds from the sun by rbarreira · · Score: 1

    (42 million kilometers) / the speed of light = 2.33494867 minutes

    That's just around 4 times closer to the sun than the Earth is, although I guess the radiation intensity probably increases with the square of the distance or something like that?

    At least they should be able to power it with solar panels...

    --

    The AACS key is NOT 0xF606EEFD628B1CA427BEA93A9CA9773F
    1. Re:2 minutes and 20 seconds from the sun by arth1 · · Score: 1

      Around 72% of the way to the sun to be more precise.
      So it's not like it'll be skimming the surface. But as the radiation decreases with the square of the distance, it should get around 12.7 times as much sunlight as if it was orbiting out here.

      42 million km is just inside Mercury's perihelion of 46 million km, by the way.

    2. Re:2 minutes and 20 seconds from the sun by Chris+Burke · · Score: 2

      Actually there is a such a thing as 4 x closer it's just an inaccurate natural language representation of 1/4th the distance. Not everyone uses accuracy and precision in their every day speech as their goal is to communicate general ideas now explain something with technical accuracy. Vernacular do you speak it?

      Well that's true except that it is perfectly accurate and precise if you simply understand the idiom. Which of course literalist wanna-be-pedants don't, as they do with so many aspects of language, and act like this means they're smart.

      --

      The enemies of Democracy are
    3. Re:2 minutes and 20 seconds from the sun by osu-neko · · Score: 2

      Math. Do you Speak it? There is no such thing as 4 times closer.

      English. Do you speak it? If you're not a native speaker, then it's understandable that you're not familiar with some of the intricacies and oddities of the language, but for fluent speakers of English, there's no trouble parsing phrases such as "twice as short" (means the same as "half as tall"), or "four times closer" ("a quarter the distance"), etc. Just invert the number when you reverse the directional (e.g. from "closer" to "further", "shorter" to "taller", etc).

      --
      "Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies."
    4. Re:2 minutes and 20 seconds from the sun by Chris+Burke · · Score: 1

      Sure, but that definition of 'closeness' as 1/distance is implied by the syntax of the sentence using 'times'. If I said I was 3 times closer to something than you, that would mean I was 1/3rd as far. However if I said I was 3m closer to something than you, then in this case "closeness" is "-distance".

      Now I'm sounding pedantic, when my point about bringing up pedantry is how rarely it helps when understanding natural language where there are many definitions that must be decided upon by context, not a single "correct" definition as there is with technical terms.

      --

      The enemies of Democracy are
    5. Re:2 minutes and 20 seconds from the sun by Chris+Burke · · Score: 1

      There's no ambiguity because the grammar of using "times" or not makes it clear.

      But if you'll notice I said "3 times closer to" means "1/3rd as far", because "distant" and "far" are synonyms, as are "closeness" and "nearness", and the two pairs of synonyms are antonyms with each other and it doesn't matter which one you use. It's the grammatical context, not the specific word choice, determining what the relationship is. "x times less" means "1/x times" and "x less" means "-x". That's all there is to it.

      --

      The enemies of Democracy are
    6. Re:2 minutes and 20 seconds from the sun by tehcyder · · Score: 1
      It is 1/4th the distance from the sun compared to the earth.

      You don't say or write "1/4th" in English. It's 1/4 or one quarter.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    7. Re:2 minutes and 20 seconds from the sun by SeeSp0tRun · · Score: 1

      Not wishing to add to this fire here, but I think the parent has a valid point.
      4x closer, would have me assume the distance x4, is the distance of our planet, relative to the sun... in so many words.

      --
      Something witty.
  2. It's the ESA not the EU by rpjs · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The European Space Agency is quite different than the European Union. It includes Canada for a start...

    1. Re:It's the ESA not the EU by Shoe+Puppet · · Score: 2

      Canada is an "associate member". As far as I understand it, that means that ESA and the Canadian Agency cooperate. Also, the EU as a whole is a member.

      --
      (+1, Disagree)
    2. Re:It's the ESA not the EU by IrquiM · · Score: 1

      It also includes Non-EU European countries

      --
      This is blinging
    3. Re:It's the ESA not the EU by Shoe+Puppet · · Score: 1

      No, the EU "as a whole" is not a member

      Yes, it is.

      --
      (+1, Disagree)
    4. Re:It's the ESA not the EU by Coren22 · · Score: 1

      Way back when, Canada would have been mighty close to Europe, but then the Atlantic was formed when Pangaea broke apart :)

      --
      APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
  3. Re:OMG! somebody PLEASE tell me! by CycleMan · · Score: 4, Funny

    We have told them it is safe to go to the sun as we will send them at night.

  4. so? by 1800maxim · · Score: 1

    I'm pretty sure they're planning on flying at night.

  5. Looks like... by feepness · · Score: 1

    They finally found a place to send all that Greek debt.

  6. Re:OMG! somebody PLEASE tell me! by OakDragon · · Score: 3, Funny

    Don't worry, they're going at... DAMMIT!

    --
    Dark Reflection
  7. hmm... by Lunix+Nutcase · · Score: 1

    They are going to make sure to do this at night, right? It would be too hot for the probe during the day, right?

    1. Re:hmm... by sentientbeing · · Score: 1

      Theyll go at night.

      --

      ------
      beware he who would deny you access to information, for in his mind he dreams himself your master
    2. Re:hmm... by hamburger+lady · · Score: 1

      depends on whether poland is in charge.

      --

      ---
      Is this the MPAA? Is this the RIAA? Is this the DMCA? I thought it was the USA!
    3. Re:hmm... by Billlagr · · Score: 1

      Will they fit it with windows and flyscreens, so they can open them to keep cool?

    4. Re:hmm... by Neil+Boekend · · Score: 1

      [woosh] Venting atmo would cool the craft, due to pressure drop. It does, however, generate a problem if you need to cool any electronics after that, since vacuum doesn't conduct the heat.
      I wouldn't advise it either if you have some humans on board. They can stand vacuum for about 30 seconds but after that the damage quickly becomes severe and I assume the voyage is a bit longer (since the light needs a couple of minutes).
      [/woosh]

      --
      Well, I might have a way, but it only works on a semi spherical planet in a vacuum.
  8. Not a record for long! by Geoffrey.landis · · Score: 1

    But it won't be a record for long, since the Solar Probe Plus will be heading to a distance of 8.5 solar radii from the surface of the sun a year later. http://science.nasa.gov/missions/solar-probe/

    --
    http://www.geoffreylandis.com
  9. Re:EU by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

    They need to include Obama and all the Congresspeople on that journey.

  10. Take that Rupert! by Hatta · · Score: 3, Funny

    First the News of the World, and now this.

    --
    Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    1. Re:Take that Rupert! by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 1

      First the News of the World, and now this.

      Gosh, I didn't think they had it in them to shoot Rupert Murdoch into the sun.

      --
      My God, it's Full of Source!
      OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
    2. Re:Take that Rupert! by mjwx · · Score: 1

      First the News of the World, and now this.

      Gosh, I didn't think they had it in them to shoot Rupert Murdoch into the sun.

      That was the original plan, then we switched vendors and had to fire him into the Dell.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
  11. Seems like a foolish way to spend money right now by metalgamer84 · · Score: 1

    Interesting way to burn a billion euros. Someone correct me if im wrong, but isn't Europe almost as broke as the US? Why did they pick now to go study the Sun?

  12. Re:EU by Cryacin · · Score: 1

    You sure they'll have the money for this after the ECB's given it all to Greece?

    --
    Science advances one funeral at a time- Max Planck
  13. Re:OMG! somebody PLEASE tell me! by msauve · · Score: 1

    Peter Frampton said he wants to go.

    --
    "National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
  14. Too much sunlight is as bad as too little... by Geoffrey.landis · · Score: 5, Interesting

    At least they should be able to power it with solar panels...

    Actually, powering a probe close to the sun with solar panels is a significant difficulty, since photovoltaic cells perform poorly when they get hot; high temperatures also degrade the lifetime. The European mission will be taking a lot of steps to decrease the intensity on the solar arrays. It's a much worse problem with Solar Probe Plus, which is going much closer. For SPP, designing a power system that works at distances close to the sun was the key enabling element in the mission design. We will be using concentrator solar cells, operating them off-angle, and, for the part of the orbit closest to the sun, actually cooling the arrays with a pumped-fluid cooling loop to reject heat to radiators that are shaded from the sun.

    --
    http://www.geoffreylandis.com
    1. Re:Too much sunlight is as bad as too little... by Pentium100 · · Score: 1

      And what is going to power the cooling system?

      You cannot power anything from heat, unless there is a colder place that you can heat up in the process. For example, you can use a steam engine, but you either need to condense the steam back into water (so, a cold place to do that) or bring so much water that it will be enough for the entire time the unit has to stay operational. Oh, and a boiler that can survive the heat and water pressure of being near the sun.

    2. Re:Too much sunlight is as bad as too little... by pixelpusher220 · · Score: 1

      I don't believe the 'heat' is present in the environment 42 million miles from the sun.

      The 'heat' is the solar radiation heating up what it strikes. That heat will radiate back out into space. Likewise the dark side of the space craft will be close to absolute zero. So there's a quite clear delineation of heat zones.

      If the probe orbits the sun and has a long tail radiator that's always in shadow/dark it will have the necessary heat differential needed to produce power.

      --
      People in cars cause accidents....accidents in cars cause people :-D
    3. Re:Too much sunlight is as bad as too little... by m50d · · Score: 1

      actually cooling the arrays with a pumped-fluid cooling loop to reject heat to radiators that are shaded from the sun.

      Isn't that, well, kind of obvious? How else would one cool anything in space? I'm rather surprised this hasn't been needed for solar cells already.

      --
      I am trolling
    4. Re:Too much sunlight is as bad as too little... by Telvin_3d · · Score: 5, Informative

      The 'heat' is the solar radiation heating up what it strikes. That heat will radiate back out into space. Likewise the dark side of the space craft will be close to absolute zero.

      This is an imperfect understanding of heat and how it works in space. Heat is HARD to get rid of. Very, very, hard. Heat hitting the craft will radiate back into space? Not very efficiently. Radiated energy is about the least effective way to get rid of heat. Very space and mass intensive. The ISS has almost as many square meters of heat radiators as it does solar panels. And the ISS has it easy, with a planetary shadow to work with.

      Why is it so hard? Because space isn't cold. The whole 'space-is-barely-above-absolute-zero' thing is technically true and yet wildly inaccurate. Yes, the total amount of energy in a given volume of space is absurdly low. But that's not because the contents are cold. It's because there is nothing there to be measured. Space is a vacuum. As in vacuum thermos. That magical container that keeps hot things hot and cold things cold.

      To say that the absolute cold of space will keep things cold implies that there is some cold substance in space that the heat can be transferred to. That simply isn't the case.

      The far side of the spacecraft from the sun is going to be exactly the same temperature as the near side because the natural heat conductivity will be orders of magnitude higher than any heat differential caused by radiating heat. Both sides will be baking.

    5. Re:Too much sunlight is as bad as too little... by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      That heat will radiate back out into space.

      Guess what, the front will radiate back, too.

      Any difference in temperature would be purely from the back not being warmed directly by the sun. But how do you efficiently stop heat from propagating through the body of the probe, especially long-term? And remember that radiation takes nowhere near as much heat as sun pumps in...

    6. Re:Too much sunlight is as bad as too little... by Chris+Burke · · Score: 2

      Likewise the dark side of the space craft will be close to absolute zero. So there's a quite clear delineation of heat zones.

      No, no it will not be close to absolute zero. Conduction will carry the heat from the sun-facing side of the craft to the dark side of the craft -- even if they weren't deliberately using pipes to move heat to the radiator. The craft will reach an equilibrium point that is based on the amount of heat it is absorbing, the size of the radiator, and the amount of blackbody radiation given off at a given temperature of the radiator.

      At this distance from the sun, this temperature is going to be rather high.

      To get close (as in 12K) to absolute zero, it took the WISE craft a significant store of solid hydrogen to use as coolant, and this was at 1 AU from the sun.

      --

      The enemies of Democracy are
    7. Re:Too much sunlight is as bad as too little... by khallow · · Score: 1

      And what is going to power the cooling system?

      We already have heat rejection to deep space. That's the heat sink that will make this work. I imagine (being, of course, too lazy to look up the probe's design) however that they didn't do it because they needed to power the system from Earth to its arrival in this orbit. A thermal-based system would lose more than a factor of 4 in power, while operating in Earth orbit compared to its destination orbit. Solar cell panels that can be varied on how exposed they are to sunlight, could generate as much power in Earth orbit as in its destination orbit.

    8. Re:Too much sunlight is as bad as too little... by Geoffrey.landis · · Score: 1

      actually cooling the arrays with a pumped-fluid cooling loop to reject heat to radiators that are shaded from the sun.

      Isn't that, well, kind of obvious? How else would one cool anything in space? I'm rather surprised this hasn't been needed for solar cells already.

      For most applications, the small gain in efficiency from running the cells cooler is not worth the large loss in terms of cost and complexity of pumped cooling loops. For near sun applications, though, it is worth it

      --
      http://www.geoffreylandis.com
    9. Re:Too much sunlight is as bad as too little... by Gaygirlie · · Score: 1

      I was just thinking to myself that placing the solar panels in a compartment out of direct line-of-sight and then reflecting light to it should atleast help a little. After all, heat radiates from the sun in direct lines and so does all the various particles it emits, so if the panel is out of that line it won't heat up as much. Atleast that's my understanding.

    10. Re:Too much sunlight is as bad as too little... by Gaygirlie · · Score: 1

      Thank you. Every time something about 'cooling stuff in space' is posted to Slashdot, we get all these "but space is teh coldz duh" comments.

      I tried to explain this once, and got modded troll since "everyone knows space is cold". Bah.

      I can definitely understand that and it ticks me off, too. I'm by no means even a novice in physics, but even I understand that cold is the absence of heat: one cannot transfer cold to an object, one has to transfer heat from the object to something else in order to cool it down. And in space there is no air, no abundant particles to transfer that heat to.

      There was even a study by one or another space-engineering entity a few years ago about what would happen if a human got out into space without a suit. The result was that the human would die of asphyxiation, the 2rd problem would be the damage done by the vacuum to the veins and arteries, the 3rd problem would be all the radiation received... and that it would literally take HOURS for the body temperature to drop below zero.

    11. Re:Too much sunlight is as bad as too little... by t2t10 · · Score: 1

      You cannot power anything from heat, unless there is a colder place that you can heat up in the process

      Yes, there is: the rest of the universe.

    12. Re:Too much sunlight is as bad as too little... by Pentium100 · · Score: 1

      Yea, while very few people had anything to do with space, there is another way to understand that cooling by radiation is inefficient - the vacuum tube. Notice how big the anode has to be to radiate even a few watts? And the anode (being just a metal plate) can survive few hundred degrees C (and radiation power is proportional to temperature). Yet it is still really big, that's why powerful glass vacuum tubes are big (even more powerful tubes have anode on the outside so you can cool it with air or deionized water).

      Now imagine having to cool down a transistor that can only survive 120C or so. In air it's easy, in a vacuum it's hard.

      For this probe, the sun will be heating up one of its sides, so you will need to get rid of that heat, as well as the heat produced in the internal components.

    13. Re:Too much sunlight is as bad as too little... by pacinpm · · Score: 2

      Since sunlight is such a problem can't you just send it at night?

    14. Re:Too much sunlight is as bad as too little... by GameboyRMH · · Score: 1

      I know you're not referencing Frontier/Elite because in those games the scoop was for picking up hydrogen from gas giants like Jupiter.

      --
      "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
  15. Re:EU by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

    They can borrow it from the Chinese like everyone else.

  16. Re:Hotter than Hades by Alain+Williams · · Score: 1

    They had better find a way to name this probe ASH because in the end that's what it'll be.

    I hear that they are avoiding the problem of too much heat by sending it there at night... :-)

  17. A closer look by janeuner · · Score: 1

    I guess they can't see it from here.

    1. Re:A closer look by dkf · · Score: 2

      Exactly! Why send a probe to a distance that is not significantly closer to the sun than the earth? They are observing visible light, ultraviolet and X-rays, which could be observed from the earth or from an earth orbit.

      First, you get more detail if you're close. Second, they'll also be making in situ particle and magnetic measurements and those you can't get any other way. Right now, we've got lots of conjecture about what's going on in the heliosphere close to the sun, but damn little actual data; some things you can only measure by getting an instrument to the location, other things could theoretically be measured remotely but practically can't because the instruments would be overwhelmed by the friendly local star. Without better measurements in that area, there's just no way to sort out a model of what's going on; the models that we have tell us clearly that we don't understand enough (the results they give when dealing with the area[*] close to the sun are ridiculous, so all we can do is use the models further out where they work better).

      I'm not a solar physicist, but I work on a team that integrates solar data from many missions (and earth-based observatories too) and I know from talking to the solar physicists on the team that the results of this probe will be very useful.
      [* That word should be "volume", but it makes the sentence sound stupid. ]

      --
      "Little does he know, but there is no 'I' in 'Idiot'!"
    2. Re:A closer look by maxwell+demon · · Score: 1

      It doesn't seem like there's a significant difference in optical resolution between 1 AU and 0.28 AU.

      The resolution difference is like seeing the same movie in 1080p instead of 303p. If you don't see the difference, you should contact an optician. :-)

      --
      The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
    3. Re:A closer look by maxwell+demon · · Score: 1

      If you take three pictures, you can process them into one. Out information processing technology is progressing much faster than our physical science.

      If so, then if you take three pictures from closer up, you'll also be able to process them into one, getting even larger resolution. Also, for fast processes the three pictures may show a significantly different situation exactly at the most interesting place (namely where the fast change happens), making the processing into one impossible.

      --
      The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
  18. EAT IT, EU! by Thud457 · · Score: 1, Funny

    I am orbiting the Sun!
    right now.

    --

    the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff

  19. Re:OMG! somebody PLEASE tell me! by R3d+M3rcury · · Score: 1

    I knew this would be in here somewhere...

  20. Re:OMG! somebody PLEASE tell me! by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 1

    Peter Frampton said he wants to go.

    I think we should let him.

    --
    #DeleteChrome
  21. Re:OMG! somebody PLEASE tell me! by Nutria · · Score: 1

    and of course lawyers, especially lawyers.

    Just half the lawyers (since they do actually serve some useful purposes), with special emphasis on person injury lawyers that advertise on TV.

    --
    "I don't know, therefore Aliens" Wafflebox1
  22. Re:EU by Pentium100 · · Score: 1

    I used to think that the politicians in my country were stupid too, but then I realized - they are not. I think the same applies to the US as well.

    The politician has managed to get to a position of power in the first place (not everybody can). He manages to use this power to fill his pocket in such a way that is not entirely illegal (but most likely immoral), or at least manages to pay off certain people to make his way legal or look the other way.

    So, politicians are not stupid, they are intelligent selfish greedy bastards and they screw up the country not because of incompetence, but because it is the unintended consequence (or maybe even intended for some) of their actions that fill their pockets.

  23. Re:Seems like a foolish way to spend money right n by guruevi · · Score: 1

    You could also phrase it as follows: Interesting way to invest in your local economy. Trust me, the research alone will get people (certain academics) to move there.

    --
    Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
  24. Re:Seems like a foolish way to spend money right n by wisnoskij · · Score: 4, Insightful

    You do realize it that when you spend money it is not incinerated right?

    If the EU spends 1 billion or 100 billion they do not have 1 billion less, it is just redistributed differently.

    --
    Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.
  25. Re:Seems like a foolish way to spend money right n by PPH · · Score: 1

    What better way to cook the books.

    --
    Have gnu, will travel.
  26. Re:EU by LucidBeast · · Score: 1

    They will just leave marvin there.

  27. 42 million km? by demonbug · · Score: 1

    Sounds like a Disaster Area waiting to happen.

    1. Re:42 million km? by roc97007 · · Score: 1

      Oh c'mon, someone tell me they got that!

      --
      Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
    2. Re:42 million km? by the+real+darkskye · · Score: 1

      Only if it crashes into the sun and causes it to explode for no adequately explored reason.

      --
      Music is everybody's possession.
      It's only publishers who think that people own it.
      Fuck Beta
      ~John Lenno
    3. Re:42 million km? by GameboyRMH · · Score: 1

      Maybe the sun is made of the same stuff everything in Michael Bay movies is made of! Has anyone checked this!? 8-(

      --
      "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
    4. Re:42 million km? by ArsonSmith · · Score: 1

      Micheal Bay can come up with one and overly explore it.

      --
      Paying taxes to buy civilization is like paying a hooker to buy love.
  28. They're sending it at night by JustNiz · · Score: 1

    They're sending it at night to avoid heat issues.

    1. Re:They're sending it at night by TxRv · · Score: 1

      Didn't see yours when Iposted mine :-/

  29. Re:EU by Cryacin · · Score: 1

    They can borrow it from the Chinese like everyone else.

    Yes, but the Chinese are wary of Greeks bearing Gilts.

    --
    Science advances one funeral at a time- Max Planck
  30. They should send it at night by TxRv · · Score: 1

    when the sun is turned off.

  31. Re:silicon carbide solar cells by Geoffrey.landis · · Score: 1

    I've actually made silicon carbide solar cells. They're not very efficient, though. (Bandgap is too wide).

    --
    http://www.geoffreylandis.com
  32. Re:silicon carbide solar cells by tmosley · · Score: 1

    Sounds perfect for a probe so close to the sun.

  33. Re:OMG! somebody PLEASE tell me! by EdZ · · Score: 1

    If it's a fully manned Sunprobe, International Rescue would be obligated to save them. You can't get rid of politicians THAT easily!

  34. Re:EU by GumphMaster · · Score: 1

    All the hot air added by including the politicians will surely help lift the craft out of the densest parts of Earth's atmosphere, allowing a smaller rocket. I call this a win-win.

    --
    Patent litigation: A doctrine of Mutually Assured Destruction... in which everyone seems willing to push the button
  35. Re:EU by fireman+sam · · Score: 1

    But will their hot air be enough to offset all the crap they are full of?

    --
    it is only after a long journey that you know the strength of the horse.
  36. NASA has already done it by cleepa · · Score: 1

    See here

  37. Re:EU by lordholm · · Score: 1

    The "eurocrats" tend to be fairly reasonable compared to the "member-state-crats".

    Besides this, the article is wrong, it is not the EU that is sending the probe, it is the ESA which is a separate entity and international organisation.

    --
    "Civis Europaeus sum!"
  38. They should call it Ikaros by G3ckoG33k · · Score: 1

    Out of courtesy, if they dare.

  39. Re:Seems like a foolish way to spend money right n by maxwell+demon · · Score: 1

    Also, it might finally convince Aztecs that the Sun is not a god. And if you plant to tell me Aztecs are extinct, I have a roommate who thinks the world will end in 2012 right here to prove you wrong!

    Isn't that the best proof that Aztecs are extinct? Because otherwise they'd be very busy correcting all those people misunderstanding their calendar.

    --
    The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
  40. Re:EU by Serpents · · Score: 1

    Ethically serving their client means doing EVERYTHING legally possible to further your client's position.

    Do you even know what being ethical means? In short it's knowing when to tell your client "No, I won't do this for you even if you fire me"

  41. Re:Seems like a foolish way to spend money right n by quasius · · Score: 1

    We are in a funding crunch! Quick! Stop science!!! Seriously stopping things that will actually advance your society because times are rough seems like a great way to keep things from improving.

  42. Re:EU by GameboyRMH · · Score: 1

    Technically, it would lower their IQ. The IQ scale is based on an average, so getting rid of dumb people will increase the level of intelligence needed to reach the 100 mark, lowering everyone's numerical scores.

    --
    "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
  43. Any astro-thermophysicists? by SeeSp0tRun · · Score: 1

    At that distance, what would the estimated temp be in space?
    More for my own curiosity, but the tech needed to survive a constant furnace/radiation bomb is also very cool.

    --
    Something witty.
    1. Re:Any astro-thermophysicists? by ArsonSmith · · Score: 1

      Not an astro-thermophysicist, but I'd guess that the vacuum of space in that area would be near absolute zero. Now the suns radiation hitting mass would probably generate a large amount of heat.

      --
      Paying taxes to buy civilization is like paying a hooker to buy love.
  44. Re:Seems like a foolish way to spend money right n by SeeSp0tRun · · Score: 1

    Even in Brave New World (Aldous Huxley) science was top. Granted, it was used in the wrong sort of way, but with knowledge comes responsibility.

    --
    Something witty.
  45. Re:Can't carry the nuclear waste too? by GameboyRMH · · Score: 1

    Just in case you aren't joking (hauling heavy nuclear waste into space would cost a metric shit-ton of money, even by space travel standards), that would be a dumb thing to do. Nuclear waste can either be re-used, or if completely depleted, used where ultra-hard/heavy metals are needed (like armor and ammo...not the most desirable use, but those are the most common applications).

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    "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
  46. You forgot option C by Bardwick · · Score: 1

    This is my major beef with $country debt. Spend a billion on space travel? Nah, we could have spent that money on cancer research. Here is a thought, and I'm just spit balling here.. How about not spend it at all? Here in Columbus Ohio, we approved a casino deal to increase school funding and infrastructure projects because we're broke. Yesterday I found out that that casino money is going to buy the Blue Jackets sport stadium. My thought would be, take in taxes, pay your bills, take what's left for science, research, art, etc... There is absolutely NO MATH that supports government creating jobs.

    1. Re:You forgot option C by DarenN · · Score: 2

      If you think that this kind of research is done to create jobs you're so wrong you'll need an atlas to get back.

      This is expensive and difficult with a massive chance that there will be absolutely no return of any kind (because the probe melts, or the engines misfile and it ends up in the sun rather than going around it or whatever). In other words, this is exactly the type of stuff that private enterprise won't do because the risk vs return is really poor (high risk vs unknown return). So governments get convinced to try it by scientists who are doing it to try and understand our home star better in the hopes that we'll learn something from it. We might even learn something useful that betters our lot as a race, or leads to useful technological advances.

      Governments _should_ spend. They should spend to cover the gaps that private enterprise won't, but that will have effects on their people or the future of their country or the world. What they should not do is privatise gains and socialise losses in the way that's happened over the last few years.

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      Rational thought is the only true freedom
  47. Re:Seems like a foolish way to spend money right n by Bardwick · · Score: 1

    The problem is when you run out of other peoples money. To over simplify, do you want a space probe or half the country (USA) not get thier government assitance checks? I think science and education should be staggeringly funded, but most people are missing a very basic concept. We're broke. Eating our seed stock...

  48. Re:EU by flirno · · Score: 1

    Politicians generally aren't stupid. In the US most of Federal elected officials were at one point lawyers. Once you understand that their behavior becomes much easier to understand.

    Lawyers are trained in law and ethics, specifically how to ethically serve their client. Ethically serving their client means doing EVERYTHING legally possible to further your client's position. Who are politician's clients? Their campaign donors. Shitty politician behavior explained by the 'ethics' training they get being turned into lawyers. It also seems self evident that lawyers shouldn't be making laws. Talk about having the foxes guard the hen house.

    How Lawful Evil of them.

  49. Re:EU by arisvega · · Score: 1

    Oh yea, and all Greek citizens are millionaires now.

    --
    The three laws of thermodynamics:(1) You can't win. (2) You can't break even. (3) You can't even quit.
  50. Sun Diving? by regular_guy · · Score: 1

    Maybe we'll find David Brin's creatures wandering about.

  51. Hold on... by Syberz · · Score: 1

    42 million kilometers...

    42... something's afoot...

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    ~Syberz
  52. ESA EU by andersh · · Score: 1

    A number of non-EU, European countries are also members, thank you very much.

  53. amazing by cybernatti · · Score: 1

    so this will be many years will wait to do it huh... | [Make Money via Internet](http://cubemars.blogspot.com) | Make Money via Internet

  54. Re:OMG! somebody PLEASE tell me! by Coren22 · · Score: 1

    I would add patent attorneys to that list too.

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    APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
  55. Mod Parent +Informative by handy_vandal · · Score: 1

    Thank you for this clear, concise explanation. You have nicely summarized the essence of the matter (for this novice, anyway).

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    -kgj
  56. Unfair modding down by handy_vandal · · Score: 1

    I think AC's tend to suffer excessively negative modding, irrespective of post content. Totally anecdotal, but that's my impression.

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    -kgj