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Putting Emails In Folders Is a Waste of Time, Says IBM Study

An anonymous reader writes "There are two types of office workers in the world — those who file their emails in folders, and those who use search. Well, it looks like the searchers are smarter. A 354-user study by IBM research found that users who just searched their inbox found emails slightly faster than users who had filed them by folder. Add the time spent filing and the searchers easily come out on top. Apparently the filers are using their inbox as a to-do list rather than wanting to categorize information to find it more easily."

434 comments

  1. Was the test done with Lotus Notes? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    Because I'm sure that wouldn't skew the results from people gouging out their eyeballs.

    1. Re:Was the test done with Lotus Notes? by Nursie · · Score: 1

      They ought to at least give the damned souls that work on Notes access to this research.

      I'm a filer, because search in notes is both painful and useless.

    2. Re:Was the test done with Lotus Notes? by geekprime · · Score: 1

      Ok, that actually made me laugh out loud, then I had to try to explain notes to my wife.

    3. Re:Was the test done with Lotus Notes? by asto21 · · Score: 0

      Don't read this... it is a curse...

      I thought he was cautioning us about TFA before telling us his story

    4. Re:Was the test done with Lotus Notes? by executeGlobal · · Score: 2

      With office, I was glad to use the search function. With notes, I was FORCED to change to using folder for my projects. With Outlook, I can get away with searches without a problem. Note's search is very picky. Sometimes the search appears to be case sensitive, or doesn't deal with extra spaces, ect. The search function is not worth bothering with in Notes. In fact, it's not even JUST the synatx, it's the search itself. It seems to take FOREVER to get search results. Creating rules in Notes does take some of the 'noise' out and makes some things less of a headache, but even with the Notes mail rules, I've noticed that the rules do not work as well as office either (same picky syntax).

    5. Re:Was the test done with Lotus Notes? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ... then I had to try to explain notes to my wife.

      Did you succeed? How?

    6. Re:Was the test done with Lotus Notes? by djl4570 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Not to mention that "Next" isn't the next email in the result set but the whatever email originally followed the one that appeared in the result set. The Interface Hall of Shame said the following about Notes: We wish we found IBM's Lotus Notes a long time ago. This single application could have formed the basis for the entire site. The interface is so problematic, that one might conclude that the designers had previously visited this site, and misread "Hall of Shame" as "Hall of Fame".

    7. Re:Was the test done with Lotus Notes? by DrXym · · Score: 1
      Tell me about it. Lotus Notes is one of the most atrocious user experiences ever devised by mankind. Even 8.x which superficially appears saner than it's predecessors is still a rat's nest of secondary dialogs, cryptic / arcane terminology, weird key combinations, unhelpful behaviours and all round pain-in-the-assery.

      In this day and age where document / content management systems that run over http, webdav are a dime a dozen and numerous email products can interoperate through IMAP you would have to be mad to tie yourself into Domino or Notes. At least run IMAP on Domino and spare your poor users the pain and suffering of using the bloated client software.

    8. Re:Was the test done with Lotus Notes? by johnsnails · · Score: 1

      At least teach them how to set up rules to auto place the emails into folders (I bet most of them don't know about that)

    9. Re:Was the test done with Lotus Notes? by johnsnails · · Score: 1

      Also I do have a bunch of labels in gmail which act as folders on one level but more importantly like a quick way to search for certain emails.

    10. Re:Was the test done with Lotus Notes? by GameboyRMH · · Score: 1

      Or Outlook, which takes freaking eons to search, and starts by displaying the oldest results first.

      That said I still use search rather than folders. I just do something else while the search runs. Gives me a chance to get up from my desk.

      --
      "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
    11. Re:Was the test done with Lotus Notes? by DJRumpy · · Score: 1

      That's because the index defined defines if it's case sensitive, if it uses word breaks, etc. They built the rules allowed in the search right into the index.

      Yes, it's really that painful....on purpose.

    12. Re:Was the test done with Lotus Notes? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually Outlook 2007+ searches extremely fast. As long as you haven't done something stupid (by following some "how to screw up your machine" article on the internet) and disabled the search indexer. Of course, if you are still using Outlook 2003 or older - then you have my pity as search is worthless on those versions. I read the summary on this article and just said, "well duh!" to their conclusion. As someone who used to use folders and became a piler not a filer when Outlook 2007 came out and who has 30,000 items in their inbox I can tell you the search in the newer versions works great.

    13. Re:Was the test done with Lotus Notes? by GameboyRMH · · Score: 1

      I'm using Outlook 2007 with the search indexer disabled (I imagine that slows it down a bit, with the upside of not having to index). It has the McAffee toolbar (we have a strong NEGFFBIBM attitude around here) but is otherwise standard. What am I doing wrong? Should I enable the search indexer?

      --
      "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
    14. Re:Was the test done with Lotus Notes? by skids · · Score: 1

      Once you get above a few tens of thousands of messages, Outlook's search slows to a crawl as well. PINE with IMAP can get pretty slow as well with large message volumes, but there you can throw hardware at the problem, whereas with outlook hardware doesn't seem to make much of a difference. I think there's plenty of room for improvement in this area on all fronts.

    15. Re:Was the test done with Lotus Notes? by Jason+Levine · · Score: 1

      No! Please don't mention the name of that program.... Too late! The flashbacks are starting! The horror! THE HORROR!!!

      I actually think that Lotus Notes hides a very well coded AI. Unfortunately, that AI is dedicated to making life hard for you. So just when you think you've figured out the system, the AI recognizes this and subtly changes things to frustrate you more. Curse you, Hidden Lotus Notes AI!!!

      --
      My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
    16. Re:Was the test done with Lotus Notes? by JazzLad · · Score: 1

      This helps greatly when you get your work email on your mobile & don't need to see the items that you set filtering for.

      --
      "If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear." - Every fascist, ever
    17. Re:Was the test done with Lotus Notes? by norminator · · Score: 1

      I thought the same thing when I read the summary.

      I especially find it funny because the Search function in Notes sucks, so I rarely search or use folders. Back in the day, we used Outlook and work and I had the Xobni plugin installed. Now that was useful.

      Funny that they would have some big study about it, when Gmail pretty much proved this same point years ago.

    18. Re:Was the test done with Lotus Notes? by norminator · · Score: 1

      Also, to further point out Notes' ineptness as an e-mail program, its own built-in spell checker doesn't recognize the word "e-mail" by default.

      Although to be fair, I just realized this morning that Google Chrome's own spell checker doesn't recognize the word "Gmail", either.

    19. Re:Was the test done with Lotus Notes? by TheLink · · Score: 1

      Eudora (registered version) is better than Outlook for search (and other stuff). With Eudora you can easily search with multiple criteria at the same time. e.g. look for email where subject contains XYZ and body contains ABC and body does NOT contain TTT. For the unregistered version you can only do simple contains searches with multiple criteria but you need to press alt+M to add criteria ;).

      Eudora may not be as fast, but I am more confident of the results[1] - e.g. if something is not found, I can be more certain that it really isn't there rather than the search or index being broken.

      Another thing it's much easier to see the email headers AND actual _email_addresses_ with Eudora.

      Outlook is crap as an email program but Lotus Notes makes Outlook look good.

      [1] I have many bad experiences with Microsoft's "desktop" search. e.g. Windows 7 search is broken- you need to add ALL the extra file extensions you want to search to the preferences, too bad if you don't know what they are in advance. And often you cannot find stuff inside the files because the default parser for the file just doesn't do it properly, even though if you open up the file with an editor, the text string is right there. Whereas even though it takes a while, it works with Windows XP search.

      --
    20. Re:Was the test done with Lotus Notes? by wwphx · · Score: 1

      I'm a filer at work because (a) helps to keep long-term project notes better organized, and (b) our damn Outlook retention policy purges email older than a month or so. The only way that I can keep old notes is to put them in folders. I'm a filer on my main home account because Yahoo searches a bit too broadly and, again, I have some long-term projects that need better quick reference for certain types of notes. Searching makes no difference whether it's inbox or folders as far as I can see in Outlook. I'm not going to bother reading TFA, but I wonder if they're painting with too broad a brush since IBM is stuck on Notes.

      --
      When you sympathize with stupidity, you start thinking like an idiot.
    21. Re:Was the test done with Lotus Notes? by Com2Kid · · Score: 1

      What am I doing wrong? Should I enable the search indexer?

      Yes yes and yes.

      50 thousand times over yes.

      Without an Index outlook has to manually scan through the entire text of every single email every time you do a search. Insanely inefficient.

    22. Re:Was the test done with Lotus Notes? by GameboyRMH · · Score: 1

      Any way to enable it without installing Windows Search? I hate that thing.

      --
      "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
    23. Re:Was the test done with Lotus Notes? by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      I use Gmail for all my email, and I still file my emails in folders and even subfolders (actually, they're tagged, which is even better). Doesn't mean I don't use search, though; I find both approaches useful. If I know someone's name or some other bit of information in the email I'm looking for, search is a quick way to find the email or emails that match that. However, it's also handy to be able to save old emails for reference in separate folders, in case I don't know exactly which email I'm looking for. Suppose I just want to browse through the last month's worth of emails pertaining to one subject; with a folder, that's easy.

      The way I see it, the fundamental problem with searching is that it precludes browsing. If you know exactly what you want, search is great for that. If you don't know exactly what you want, search sucks. I even see this with some of the new desktop environments for Linux, namely Gnome3. It apparently eliminates the big hierarchical program menu, and instead lets you just type what you want into a box. Ok, if I know what I want, I guess that's helpful, but what if I just want to see all the games installed on this system? Searching doesn't let you do that. Or what if I want to browse through all the utilities? Again, search won't do that. Besides, if I already know exactly which program I want to run, I don't need a search box, all I need is a "run" box (Alt-F2 in KDE), where I just type the executable name.

    24. Re:Was the test done with Lotus Notes? by Blakey+Rat · · Score: 1

      Once you get above a few tens of thousands of messages, Outlook's search slows to a crawl as well.

      Depending on your definition of "crawl", I don't find this to be the case-- assuming you're running a modern version of Outlook on a modern version of Windows.

      On Vista and Windows 7, Outlook will use the OS's Search Indexer service, which is pretty damned fast and returns pretty damned good results. Of course if you're using a version of Outlook older than 2007, or using it on XP, then you're kind of SOL because Outlook just uses its internal indexer, which sucks.

      In any cases, even at its worse, Outlook's search is still an order of magnitude faster than Note's.

    25. Re:Was the test done with Lotus Notes? by Blakey+Rat · · Score: 1

      Why?

      Ok, well here we go:
      1) If you don't already have Windows Search (why???), then you are using an ancient OS that's about to leave support. In other words, the best solution to your problem is to upgrade to an OS that is less than a decade old.

      2) If you really hate Windows Search (why???), you can offload the work to Google Desktop Search. The UI is worse (it's a web browser pointing to a localhost web site, and you can't search from within the program you want results from), but the results are about as fast and are good quality.

      Note that Google Desktop Search used to (not sure if this still applies) upload your search index to Google's. Which is, IMO, 1000 times worse than anything Windows Search will do to you. But, there you go.

      But seriously, upgrade your computer. If you're using a 10-year-old OS, you get 10-year-old features. The search in Windows 7 (and Vista, if you care) is leaps and bounds better.

    26. Re:Was the test done with Lotus Notes? by Blakey+Rat · · Score: 1

      Also, to further point out Notes' ineptness as an e-mail program, its own built-in spell checker doesn't recognize the word "e-mail" by default.

      Not to defend Notes in any way, because it's a load of shit, but the word is "email". There's no dash, not according to any style guide I've read in the last decade. Only geezers type the dash. Might as well complaint it doesn't have "potatoe" in the spelling database...

    27. Re:Was the test done with Lotus Notes? by GameboyRMH · · Score: 1

      Yeah I'm getting an upgrade soon (I'd have had it already, but I was asked if I wanted a laptop (aka take-work-home machine), not if I wanted a faster computer with a newer OS, and I wanted to keep my dual monitors and didn't know the laptop dock had dual outputs), I'll just wait for that.

      I hate Windows Search because it ruins the search UI and hogs system resources in the process of indexing stuff, which is a really big problem on off-the-shelf office PCs with bargain-basement hard drives.

      --
      "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
    28. Re:Was the test done with Lotus Notes? by Blakey+Rat · · Score: 1

      Well, your problem is Windows Search in XP and Vista *does* actually suck up more time indexing than it should, because XP has a shitty scheduler (it's impossible to say "hey only hit the disk if absolutely NO other process is using it in XP), and Vista's search team didn't get around to fixing it properly. So your complaint there is valid.

      You could however just leave the computer on overnight to index once, and then it wouldn't bother you from then-on-- it would only index new items as they came in.

      I have no idea what you mean by "ruins the search UI". It changes it, so if you're one of those knee-jerky people who hates change, I guess that's also a valid complaint. But without change there's no progress, and Windows Search is a metric fuckload better than the shitty search system that shipped with Outlook 2003 and Windows XP.

      But, shock and surprise, old stuff sucks compared to new stuff! What bothers me is people who come here to Slashdot and gripe, "oh Windows Search sucks" when they haven't even tried an OS newer than 2001. What they should be saying is either: "oh Windows Search sucked back in 2001" or "oh man my version of Windows is so old, I have the crappy search", or something more intellectually honest. Microsoft is not to blame for your company being cheap.

      For what it's worth, I've never seen a laptop dock with dual video outlets. All the laptop users I know who do multiple-monitor use the laptop screen as one of the monitors, and the dock-connected one as the second.

    29. Re:Was the test done with Lotus Notes? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm a combination searcher and "From" sorter (which Notes does very fast) - search is kind of ok. Too many results usually. The lack of sorting in gmail undermines its great search imho.

    30. Re:Was the test done with Lotus Notes? by selex · · Score: 1

      Google Desktop Search has also been discontinued, as of last month or this month when they stopped supporting it to focus on Google+. It was in the great Google purge of the summer of 2011. Selex

    31. Re:Was the test done with Lotus Notes? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Amen. I don't file on Gmail. but have to file on Notes to ever have a chance of seeing that message ever again.

    32. Re:Was the test done with Lotus Notes? by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      Searches don't have good "adanced" search. I have emails I "lose" that I know I got the first week of last month, where I was CCd to the email, but I don't know who sent it, who it was to, what the subject was, or any keywords that would be in it and not 10,000,000 other emails. And none of the searches make it easy to put in a date range, search based on me being *only* in the CC field and not the *to* field, and then list the 10 emails that meet those alphabetized by subject.

    33. Re:Was the test done with Lotus Notes? by crafty.munchkin · · Score: 1

      For what it's worth, I've never seen a laptop dock with dual video outlets. All the laptop users I know who do multiple-monitor use the laptop screen as one of the monitors, and the dock-connected one as the second.

      Dell PR02X - for some reason I can't find it on the Dell site, but ebay has them and they have dual DVI out: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Clean-Dell-PR02X-Docking-Station-/180733204077?pt=Laptop_Docking_Stations&hash=item2a1489d66d

      --
      ... wait, what?
    34. Re:Was the test done with Lotus Notes? by kmoser · · Score: 1

      That's why I still use Eudora (yes, really). I have about 21,000 email messages going back to 1994. Eudora's indexed search function is not only fast but incredibly flexible and fine-grained, far more so than any other interface I've seen to date. Oh, and I store my messages in folders and use search.

    35. Re:Was the test done with Lotus Notes? by johnsnails · · Score: 1

      Yup sure would/does

    36. Re:Was the test done with Lotus Notes? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What version of Notes are you guys talking about? Search seems to work great. Is this another occurrence of "I used Lotus Notes back in 1982 and it sucked! Outlook 2010 is far superior!" ??

    37. Re:Was the test done with Lotus Notes? by WorBlux · · Score: 1

      I think folder + search is the way to go.

    38. Re:Was the test done with Lotus Notes? by Nursie · · Score: 1

      I've used notes more or less constantly for the last ten years, and I'm talking about all versions. The search function is hidden away, hard to use and flaky. The client is heavyweight and unwieldy, and for something that is used primarily as an email client it's extremely overweight.

    39. Re:Was the test done with Lotus Notes? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      +1 to this. Exchange isn't much better either.

  2. Except that... by Trip6 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Your inbox gets too unwieldy.

    --
    I hate being bipolar; it's awesome!
    1. Re:Except that... by Joce640k · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Yep. Scrollbars become unusable when one scrollbar pixel equals several pages of what's being scrolled.

      Plus...ummm, doesn't "search" work on folders too? Ooops!

      --
      No sig today...
    2. Re:Except that... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Inbox & inbox2:ElectricBoogaloo

    3. Re:Except that... by KhabaLox · · Score: 2

      Archive 2010-?

      --
      Ceci n'est pas un sig.
    4. Re:Except that... by mdf356 · · Score: 1

      This is why I have one folder called "work stuff" where everything I save goes. If it's in the Inbox I probably still need to deal with it in some way; if it's in "work stuff" I may need the info again later, and everything else is in the trash and deleted weekly.

      So... does this make me a filer or a searcher?

      --
      Terrorist, bomb, al Qaeda, nuclear, yellowcake, kill, assassinate. Carnivore is dead... long live Echelon.
    5. Re:Except that... by lakeland · · Score: 1

      The way I handle this is having 'inbox' = things I haven't dealt with yet and 'archive' = backup of all email received.

      That way at the end of the day my inbox is ideally empty, or at least at the end of the week.

      And I never open the archive folder, it just gets accessed using search.

    6. Re:Except that... by meerling · · Score: 1

      Yes, and besides that, what if you don't remember enough about the email to get a reasonably short result list from a search, but you had filed it in a reasonable fashion that made finding it much easier.

      I use both, but the folders give me categories that make it easier to filter my searches. It could be even better if I were able to attack multiple tags to email, then it would be much easier to find what I wanted, but at least folder/label is better than nothing.

    7. Re:Except that... by ColdWetDog · · Score: 4, Funny

      This is why I have one folder called "work stuff" where everything I save goes.

      Mine's called 'Trash'. Works really well.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    8. Re:Except that... by icebike · · Score: 2

      Search works across all folders too.
      Plus, any competent mail package, will file things for you. Nobody i know manually files email.

      --
      Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
    9. Re:Except that... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Auto- and manual foldering, filters and the search combined must have slipped under the researcher's radars, unless IBM tries to patent something obvious as SOMing (or pick a random NN or clustering algorithm) the inbox to maps full of pretty colors. That would be something unique for the Thunderbird, though.

    10. Re:Except that... by stephathome · · Score: 1

      Same here. Folders make my searches faster because I know which part of my inbox the email should be in. They also let me check the emails I'm interested in at the moment, so the stuff I don't need to pay attention to at the moment is out of my way.

    11. Re:Except that... by tantaliz3 · · Score: 1

      mines called /dev/null. Works even faster.

    12. Re:Except that... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yep...and Outlook is unable to search through unwieldy inboxes in a timely fashion. When I had to use Outlook, I used a hybrid solution where I'd come into the office on Jan 2nd each year and move everything from the previous year into its own folder. Searching was just a matter of remembering what year I received an email. It mostly worked, but I was getting to the point where I was thinking about having separate folders for each quarter, since searches on email from previous years was still not fast.

      Then I switched jobs and my new place of works uses Google Apps instead of exchange. Now I don't have to adjust my behavior to the limitation of the tools I'm forced to use.

    13. Re:Except that... by schlameel · · Score: 1

      Plus...ummm, doesn't "search" work on folders too? Ooops!

      Not with IBM's email client Lotus Notes.

    14. Re:Except that... by futuresheep · · Score: 1

      Says the person that must have never used IBM's mail solution....

      If you're using IBM's Lotus Notes, unless you specify the "All Documents" view, Lotus only searches in your currently selected folder.

    15. Re:Except that... by msauve · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Apparently, IBM hasn't discovered the concept of filter, which can organize emails automatically. Hopefully, when they do, there won't be a new patent forthcoming.

      --
      "National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
    16. Re:Except that... by smash · · Score: 1

      Outlook 2010 can (search through large inboxes). At long last.

      If you're still on 2007, but have Vista of win7, then you can more effectively search mail using the start menu search, something like "kind:=email from:bob" for example.

      --
      I run: Windows, OS X, Linux, FreeBSD. Just because you have a hammer, doesn't mean everything is a nail.
    17. Re:Except that... by fwarren · · Score: 2

      We had a store manger who saved several years worth of email in his Outlook "Trash" folder. He took the day off and a manger from another location was covering for him and emptied the trash in Outlook. The next day when he got back to work he was VERY freaked out.

      I was able to "damage" the first 8 bytes of the pst file and run fixpst to get all the mail back. At which point he was lectured on creating a folder not named "Trash" to keep email in.

      --
      vi + /etc over regedit any day of the week.
    18. Re:Except that... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your inbox gets too unwieldy.

      Nope. Use archive to manage that. Anything older than your work window goes off-line. And do it automatically. Anything you haven't 'touched' for two weeks, you probably won't touch again. And if you need, search works on all repositories so it can be found with a minimum of fuss and bother.

      But... being IBM, I presume they considered that in the equation also.

      Finally, this study may be timely for today's environment but it forgets those who have developed habits when things weren't quite so easy or quick.

    19. Re:Except that... by blahplusplus · · Score: 1

      "Plus...ummm, doesn't "search" work on folders too? Ooops!"

      Not everyone wants their email in the cloud. If you have a LOT of email and are downloading email to your desktop folders definitely make sense since many kinds of email are already sorted by topic or sender. Especially if you are mailing lists you can put those emails right into a folder so if you want to say search "programming discussion list" you can search JUST those emails. So you can have the search function ONLY search a limited number of emails instead of ALL emails.

      By sorting them into folders, if your emails grow huge over time then search begins to slow down. So folders prevent having search having to go through ALL emails. Which if you have a lot of email takes quite a bit of time on a desktop.

      The downside about things like gmail / cloud is that you're email is available may be available to third parties that you don't like without your knowledge.

    20. Re:Except that... by war4peace · · Score: 1

      The root problem being... two separate people using the same account.
      I should keep my e-mail wherever the damn I choose to, even if it looks stupid to anyone else :)

      --
      ...gis sdrawkcab (usually not responding to ACs; don't bother posting as AC)
    21. Re:Except that... by ShakaUVM · · Score: 1

      >>This is why I have one folder called "work stuff" where everything I save goes.

      Heh, I have one for "receipts" and then one for everything else called "old". It actually works reasonably well.

      Besides my junk mail directory, I also filter out one of my relatives who always forwards chain letters to me into his own special directory, and some mailing lists get their own filters, but keeping all my email in one directory seems to work a lot better than sorting people into folders.

    22. Re:Except that... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The point is that the folders don't add anything: searchers are still (a bit) faster AND it takes time at the start to do the categorization in the first place.

      Oh, and most Email clients let you limit the number of mails you see in your Inbox.

    23. Re:Except that... by MadKeithV · · Score: 1

      The root problem being... two separate people using the same account. I should keep my e-mail wherever the damn I choose to, even if it looks stupid to anyone else :)

      No the root of the problem is that you should never let mangers near e-mail!

    24. Re:Except that... by Dan541 · · Score: 1

      Plenty of capacity too.

      --
      An SQL query goes to a bar, walks up to a table and asks, "Mind if I join you?"
    25. Re:Except that... by JasterBobaMereel · · Score: 1

      I suspect the answer is that what most people file under is not what they search for ...

      Email from Bob is easy to find if you file all email from Bob in a folder Bob.... but where did you file the email mentioning Bob's project but not from Bob ...?

      Tags (preferably automatic Tags) would be a better way, just use them like a preindexed search ...

      --
      Puteulanus fenestra mortis
    26. Re:Except that... by MichaelSmith · · Score: 3, Funny

      My wife kept clicking Junk in apple mail to delete messages after she had read them, then asked me why she never saw any new messages.

    27. Re:Except that... by dintech · · Score: 1

      An colleague at a previous job had a 'drivel' folder which rule diverted almost everything into. I don't think he looked in there very often.

    28. Re:Except that... by somersault · · Score: 1

      I don't see why you'd need to sort people into folders (apart from in the annoying chain mail forwarder's case).

      I have folders for separate projects that I work on. Within those folders I have a "Documentation" folder, and a "completed folder".

      If I get an email from someone asking me to add some feature to a specific application, I put it in the relevant folder (or if they ask me in person I'll often just send myself an email and file it in that folder). Once it's completed, I move it to the completed folder. Since I started filing things this way I've felt much more on top of things.

      Tagging would work in a similar way, sure, but I don't really care. As some have already pointed out, searching within folders should reduce the search space too, rather than having to search by tags and then subconditions.

      On a related note, when I've tried to maintain a separate to-do list on my computer it just gets neglected. Simply filing the emails means I don't have to type up to-dos, I can just drag and drop. I would forget to update my to-do list or even look at it really - and indeed sometimes some folders in my inbox still get forgotten about occasionally if I am busy on other projects, but I guess there's only so many things I can work on at once. It takes a while to shift your brain from one project's code base to another, so it's better to work on things in chunks, clear out the folder then move to another one.

      My coworker started writing out his to-do list on a whiteboard in our office, and I tried it out too. I find it a lot more useful than a computer based list - I guess because when you get bored and absent-mindedly look around your office, you see the massive whiteboard list and it reminds you that you have stuff to do. Contrast with a tiny little system tray icon or a to-do list that you have to click your way through to in your email client, both of which are easy to filter out and forget about. I can put my most important tasks up on the whiteboard and work my way through them, then when I'm done it's a good time to look through all of my project folders and put the next set of stuff up on the board. Hopefully I won't end up needing something to further prioritise whiteboard tasks :p

      --
      which is totally what she said
    29. Re:Except that... by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      If your email client doesn't suck, then it will be constructing full-text search indexes in the background, so searching is still relatively quick. I have about 4GB of (mostly plain text) emails on my machine, and I can search them in a few seconds. It isn't having to search everything, it's having to search a smallish data structure that maps character sequences to emails (or to groups of emails that can then be searched properly). If your mail client is still doing the equivalent of running grep on your mail spool, then you need a better mail client. If you host your own mail server, Dovecot can do its own full text indexing, so any client that can issue IMAP search commands can use it.

      Folders are still useful for filtering the result. My mail is sorted into folders by some rules as it arrives. If I search for a term and I know the email is in a specific folder, then I have fewer search results to go through than if I do the search globally.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    30. Re:Except that... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Mine too: I have an automatic filter that sends any messages starting with "URGENT FIX" there.

    31. Re:Except that... by PhunkySchtuff · · Score: 1

      I don't know if you're joking or not, but I know a number of people who, once they've finished reading an email in their inbox, they file it away for permanent storage with the delete key. One guy I went to see recently had, I kid you not, over 36k items in the Trash. That was less than 18 months of email.

    32. Re:Except that... by PhunkySchtuff · · Score: 1

      I used to file emails, but now (at least on my Mac) search works so damn well that it's faster in every way than filing emails in folders and then trying to dig through those folders again manually to find the email.

      If I can remember enough about the email to know which folder I would have put it in, that right there is more than enough information to search.

      Spotlight on OS X is a full text index of everything that the OS understands, attachments included. Full text index of body text, some email headers (to, from, subject) and attachments (text, MS Office formats, PDF etc).

      In order to prevent my inbox from growing too big (and, really, how big is too big? I honestly don't know) I archive it to a folder once a quarter (2011 Q1, 2011 Q2 etc) I never ever sift through these folders myself, I just hit up the search interface and find what I'm after that way. The advantage is that it's no slower to find email and I spend about 2 minutes once every three months to file my email.

      Previous to this, I used to have a script I'd run daily to parse the From: addresses in the email, extract the company name from the domain name and file emails away automatically, but then whenever I wanted to retrieve an old email I just searched for it anyway.

    33. Re:Except that... by PhunkySchtuff · · Score: 1

      Lots of people I know manually file emails. Some people have (almost) more folders than filed emails. I scratch my head in amazement when I see someone with a massive folder structure and two or three emails in most of the folders. Me, everything sits in the inbox for up to 3 months and then it all gets dumped out in an archive folder (2011 Q2, 2011 Q3 etc).

    34. Re:Except that... by peragrin · · Score: 1

      At work i get 5 reports daily by mail, and another6 weekly. By having them auto sorted into folders i can read them when i want instead of them sitting in my inbox. Most of them i dont have to read unless problems appear elsewhere.

      The other thing is most search engines suck. I use search in gmail because it works but i rarely have luck with the same search in outlook

      --
      i thought once I was found, but it was only a dream.
    35. Re:Except that... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Press "a" in Thunderbird to auto-archive.

    36. Re:Except that... by Rich0 · · Score: 1

      I do the same. At the start of this year I started using Gmail as my MUA at home, and decided to try a similar workflow at work (ugh, using Outlook). I set up an archive folder. It isn't quite the same thing, and is far more limited and much slower, but it works.

      My only problem is that I tend to collect a lot of "half-done" stuff in my inbox. Periodically I tend to mass-purge it into my archive.

      Now what I need is a decent search solution for outlook. Right now I'm using xobni, and it isn't bad, but it isn't great either. It is also painfully slow, but that could be the corporate IT stuff weighing it down.

      My other issue is that I have a 1995ish email quota - another relic of corporate IT.

    37. Re:Except that... by MrAngryForNoReason · · Score: 1

      Most email programs allow you to group messages in your inbox by age. For instance in Mozilla Thunderbird it will display messages grouped into Today, Yesterday, Last Week, Two weeks ago and Old mail.

      This allows you to collapse older messages to allow easier browsing of newer ones. If you are scrolling up and down to find messages from more than a few days ago then you should probably be using search anyway.

    38. Re:Except that... by cynyr · · Score: 1

      I'm similar, I use gmail search at home for my personal stuff, but at work i have to use outlook. i get info for 3-10 "projects" a day, many times things like "here is the info for that job we discussed on the phone ${info}" with a very generic title, this makes it almost impossible to search for later. I would love to just tag it, but outlook sucks at making a new tag, compared to gmail.

      Anyways, if microsoft ever figures out goo local searching of 2+ years of mail then i'll move back to searching there as well. As a note, google can search 7 years of mailing lists in seconds, i'd bet outlook would choke on the same amount of data.

      --
      All of the above was encrypted with a Quad ROT-13 method. Unauthorized decryption is in violation of the DMCA.
    39. Re:Except that... by Ash+Vince · · Score: 1

      Plus...ummm, doesn't "search" work on folders too? Ooops!

      Under Exchange searching barely works at all, and when it does it takes forever.

      On my home gmails I use searching everytime and follow the "All the inbox" approach. This is fine as gmail searches come back so quickly everytime.

      On my work exchange account I use the too many folders approach. I used to keep everything in my inbox but that became unwieldy as the search provided by exchange it just too damn slow at finding anything. Now that I think about it when I started work here we used to use Lotus Notes, maybe I only moved to the categorisation by folder approach after we deployed MS Exchange.

      Maybe the results of this study only apply to people on a decent email system. Since a large majority of people are probably stuck on exchange what is true for Lotus Notes users in an IBM study group might not be true for us.

      --
      I dont read /. to RTFA, I read /. to offend people in ignorance.
    40. Re:Except that... by Jesus_666 · · Score: 1

      Then again, the setup time for a mail filter is less than a minute and it allows implicit searches, such as "What were the last five invoices sent to me by PayPal?". With a search function you need to look up which address PayPal uses to send invoices and then search for that. (Depending on which kind of mails you send/receive, just searching for "PayPal" might generate too many false matches.) With a folder fed by a filter tuned to that address you need one click. Oh, and once the filter is in place, having all existing matching mails categorized by it just requires running it on your inbox once.

      To me, folders are two things: Firstly they are a way of visualizing metadata about my mails. Mails from my workplace have a higher priority than mails from Slashdot; having them filed at retrieval means that even a deluge of /. mails can't crowd out more important mails. Filing always happens by filter; I never move mails by hand. Secondly they are mutually-exclusive search optimizations; a few searches are greatly simplified by having all mails on a particular topic pre-grouped.

      Of course all of this does nothing to keep me from using searches, which I do. Thunderbird constructs a fulltext index so I can always search across all folders without losing performance or I can filter inside a folder. Folders and the search function are tools with different capabilities and purposes; there's some overlap but even there they are hardly mutually exclusive.


      Now, I can understand the argument against manually-maintained folders. That takes time for every mail and most likely doesn't do anything a filter couldn't do better.

      --
      USE HOT GRITS WITH STATUE OF NATALIE PORTMAN (NAKED AND PETRIFIED)
    41. Re:Except that... by JoeMerchant · · Score: 1

      Your inbox gets too unwieldy.

      Only if you use Outlook.

    42. Re:Except that... by icebraining · · Score: 1

      A decent mail client will index your emails using a decent engine and keep it fast even with many emails.

      Xapian, as used by the Sup email client, can blaze through 20 million documents in milliseconds.

    43. Re:Except that... by icebraining · · Score: 1

      Which makes perfect sense. That label is idiotic; we have a perfectly decent name for unsolicited emails, why use more ambiguous words?

    44. Re:Except that... by icebraining · · Score: 1

      (...) AND it takes time at the start to do the categorization in the first place.

      Not if it's done by a filter.

    45. Re:Except that... by Compaqt · · Score: 2

      For me, folders are a way to group emails by project.

      Emails that relate to a given project might not necessarily have a keyword that I can search on.

      E.g., I might send an email entitled "ProjectName: Server downtime"

      But I might receive an email entitled "Some thoughts".

      --
      I'm not a lawyer, but I play one on the Internet. Blog
    46. Re:Except that... by SQLGuru · · Score: 1

      Yes indeed.

      I use folders because I've got limited storage space on the server.....so, my folders are actually local archives. But I stick to big-bucket folders based on project or role.....and then I search within the folder when I'm looking for something.....which should make my searching faster because it has to scan through fewer records to get what I'm looking for.

    47. Re:Except that... by yodleboy · · Score: 1

      exactly what i was going to post. I get 100MB on server, my local archive file is over 2GB. I can't count the times I'm asked a question about a project from 2 years ago. Click folder, search, fast accurate results. I agree big buckets are the way to do this, project1, project2, boss, admin. Anything too detailed and it does get unwieldy.

    48. Re:Except that... by i.r.id10t · · Score: 1

      I use folders and filters to manage my listserv subscriptions, redirect mail from my students (must have course number in subject), flag things from my boss, etc. On the first of the month, I take anything that is more than a month old and archive it off the imap server and into a local folder.

      --
      Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos
    49. Re:Except that... by skids · · Score: 1

      I think he was referring to setting up the filter.

    50. Re:Except that... by oh_my_080980980 · · Score: 0

      Nice one genius. Search is still searching all your email in your in-box, even if you only limit what you see.

      Ever archive your email? Folders are a good way to do that.

      Search NEVER captures everything because of the search terms.

    51. Re:Except that... by kannibal_klown · · Score: 1

      Yep. Scrollbars become unusable when one scrollbar pixel equals several pages of what's being scrolled.

      Plus...ummm, doesn't "search" work on folders too? Ooops!

      Depending on where I am I use both: folders and search. I can't trust the sender used words I'd want to search for... even stuff as obvious as project name or at least something from the project. IE, "here's a link to that page I was talking about..." A few months later, and my reaction is "Umm, OK?" And not every email client allows for easy tagging or a large category list.

      Hypothetically if I have to backup work mail before it gets automatically deleted after X days, then my archive becomes too cumbersome if it's just one large folder by year or even quarter. So at the end of every month when I archive my email, I group them into folders (usually by project). It's not perfect since an email might belong to multiple projects, but if "search" fails to find something for me I can at least browse through dozens of emails instead of thousands.

    52. Re:Except that... by arehm · · Score: 1

      X1. It's worth the $50 or whatever it costs now. I've got almost 1,000,000 emails archived. Inbox is a to do list. Once done it gets deleted. Deleted items get purged to a PST about every month or two. 1 PST per year for archived deleted and sent items. No other filing. Works great. X1 is very fast and just plain works.

    53. Re:Except that... by Politburo · · Score: 1

      The term 'junk mail' predates the personal computer, and 'spam' has potential trademark issues (though Hormel has generally lost those cases).

    54. Re:Except that... by BrokenHalo · · Score: 1

      Heh. I started reading that link, but stopped at the point where Sup was described as a mutt-killer. Wouldn't like to think that every time I used it, a puppy-dog would die...

    55. Re:Except that... by norminator · · Score: 1

      Actually, scroll bars are already next to useless in Notes, because the contents of the window don't update as you're scrolling. You have to pick a spot to scroll to and hope that you're roughly in the right neighborhood.

    56. Re:Except that... by Kabuthunk · · Score: 1

      Oh god, don't go there. When I was tech support for the government, I can't count the number of times someone would say they've had email sitting in the 'deleted items' folder for months, if not years.

      Then they call us when the system is upgraded or reset or something, and Outlook is once again set to automatically delete everything in their deleted items.

      Why in the WORLD would you think that 'deleted items' is a good place to save important emails?!? Honestly?!?

      --
      Planet Zebeth - Metroid with a twist
    57. Re:Except that... by Kabuthunk · · Score: 1

      I think the root problem is that he's to goddamn stupid to use email. 'Trash' is not where you keep things. I can't understand why someone would think that.

      --
      Planet Zebeth - Metroid with a twist
    58. Re:Except that... by BrokenHalo · · Score: 1

      This is why I still like POP mail. I am quite often roaming around in areas where I only have a tenuous wireless dongle connection (but at least it's not dialup), so I find it quite useful to just use a local search in whatever email client I happen to be using. In fact, sometimes I don't even do that: occasionally it's quicker to just grep -ri -B 5 -A 5 $WHATEVER_TEXT in my mbox directory.

      After all, I haven't run out of disk space in years.

    59. Re:Except that... by lazybeam · · Score: 1

      I used to use outlook 2003. Its search was so slow it was quicker to walk over to the Mac, start it up, get into Mail, and do the search there. Both using the same exchange 2007 server. I used to be a folder user for this reason, but since using Mac more and upgrading the pc to outlook 2010 I haven't done as much folder sorting, as search is nice.

      --
      --
      no sig for you. come back one year.
    60. Re:Except that... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In the "bob's project" folder. Duh.

    61. Re:Except that... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      IBM is Lotus Notes.
      In Lotus Notes you can search the current folder, or the "All Documents" folder. It does not search from the current folder to all sub-levels.
      So I actually make MORE folders, to ease the 'search'.
      Either I have the sub-folder I am looking for, or I have to search the 'All Documents' folder.
      Maybe one of these days IBM will bring the front end of Notes into the 21st century.

    62. Re:Except that... by Tony+Isaac · · Score: 1

      That's why I have a folder called "Archived." As soon as I'm done with an e-mail, I move it to "Archived." (Got that idea from GMail.) That way, my Inbox doesn't become unwieldy, and I can still search for e-mails when I want them. I also get the benefit of being able to use the Inbox as a to-do list...if it's still in my Inbox, it still needs attention.

    63. Re:Except that... by jfengel · · Score: 1

      You joke, but in Thunderbird, that's exactly what I do. I never empty the trash, and if I need something, I search there. It's just what GMail calls "archive". I suppose I should live in fear of accidentally pushing the "empty trash" button, but I guess that's what backups are for.

      I don't bother separating out the good stuff from the bad stuff, since it may all be necessary some day. The only things that get separated out specially are the actual spam.

    64. Re:Except that... by Belial6 · · Score: 1

      Yes. It does. Maybe you hate Notes because you decided to ignore any part that you might like.

    65. Re:Except that... by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      Under Exchange searching barely works at all, and when it does it takes forever.

      It does? I routinely use search to find mails in my multi-gigabyte database of work emails from the last 2.5 years (it includes a bunch of mailing lists). Ironically, web interface (which presumably searches directly on the server) works better than desktop Outlook (which searches in the local cache), but both can find what I want in a few seconds at most, even if it's some ancient email.

    66. Re:Except that... by Belial6 · · Score: 1

      Yes. It does. Save your search, and you have a filter.

    67. Re:Except that... by treeves · · Score: 1

      any part that I might like... any part that I might like... any part that I might like....

      hmmm.

      Nope, I still hate it.

      --
      ...the future crusty old bastards are already drinking the Kool-Aid.
    68. Re:Except that... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You were modded Funny but that's exactly what I do. Trash is searchable, too!

    69. Re:Except that... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This reminds me of a story I heard from a friend about a guy, who used to save every document into his desktop Trash bin. When he needed something, he went there and restored it, then deleted it back into Trash.
      Guess what happened when he called IT support and a technician came to see him.... Some techs used to start the troubleshooting by emptying the trash...

    70. Re:Except that... by tantaliz3 · · Score: 1

      I feed it too much though, it's nearly reached critical mass from all the spam. My os will soon be sucked into oblivion.

    71. Re:Except that... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Did you have anything to do with that....

    72. Re:Except that... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      oh, that's funny, if you do not sign in, you are Anonymous Coward....

      Since I gotta wait to post again, I will keep typing...those of you making the point that you can search folders, I've seen 'those folder people' (says Perot) manually opening and looking through their supposedly organized folders. I just tell them to let me know what they find and then leave. LOL.

    73. Re:Except that... by CCarrot · · Score: 1

      Says the person that must have never used IBM's mail solution....

      If you're using IBM's Lotus Notes, unless you specify the "All Documents" view, Lotus only searches in your currently selected folder.

      ...ignoring all subfolders...extra fun times!

      After all, why would you ever want to search through all your East Division projects for an email, without having to also search through your entire mail history? Wouldn't you rather search each individual East Division project folder one by one, or search in and then sift through the crappy, bloated results from every email and calendar item you've ever received/sent/set up? Golly, who wouldn't?!?! I love having the chance to see how many of my emails and calendar items over the years have the exact phrase "John Smith" in them (but not 'john smith' or 'JohnSmith', heavens no): it's like getting to know old friends all over again!
      < /sarcasm >

      Also, until relatively recently, there was absolutely no fricking way to be able to find out which folder(s) you may have saved any particular mail in, other than browsing by hand through all your folders and subfolders. So if you dropped it in the wrong folder by 'accident' (i.e., because Bloatus Goats decided to suddenly pop open that folder three folders higher in the list because you hesitated a millisecond in it's general vicinity...1.5 seconds ago...), well, good luck finding it again unless you use 'All Documents' to sift through every mail and schedule item on your system...

      bah. I could rant all day about this POS. Trouble is, I don't have time to rant about Notes because I'm too busy fighting with it...it's a vicious, vicious circle.

      --
      "I love animals! Some are cute, others are tasty, what's not to like?" - Betsy Schroeder, Jeopardy contestant
  3. No, wrong clonclusion. by Bill,+Shooter+of+Bul · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The right conclusion, is that people suck at organizing emails into folders. Therefore, for most people putting emails in folders is a waste of time.

    --
    Well.. maybe. Or Maybe not. But Definitely not sort of.
    1. Re:No, wrong clonclusion. by hedwards · · Score: 2

      I find it to be a waste of time, I have a few things that are automatically labeled for me. Usually I'll have mailinglists and ads specially labeled, pretty much everything else goes into the main inbox uncategorized. A mail client with a proper search feature makes quick work of finding things when I need them, certainly a lot faster than thumbing through folders.

      Also, folders don't really handle cases where a piece of mail belongs in two different categories very well. Labels OTOH handle that quite a bit more easily and don't necessarily require you to organize everything in order to be worthwhile.

    2. Re:No, wrong clonclusion. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The problem here is that the mental state at the point of organization is a completely different mental state at the point of retrieval. If we were able to put ourselves into the same contextual state at both points then the organization and retrieval matches up and the organization becomes meaningful. That's problem #1.

      Problem #2 is that organization emails into folders is a largely physical organization activity and not a logical organization activity. Until the equivalence of tagging/labeling came along we don't get logical organization. Even with tagging, most people don't organize logically because it's too goddamn tedious.

    3. Re:No, wrong clonclusion. by JWSmythe · · Score: 3, Interesting

          Shouldn't that be, people in the small sample set, suck at organizing emails?

          I think some of us do pretty damned well. I have a dozen primary folders, and dated archives (year and month). Searching one huge box for say resumes that came in regarding a position we were hiring for in April. Despite how nice it may be to search by message content, applicants suck. You might think it's ok, because applicants who can't write a cover letter aren't worth finding. That's ok, except for when a superior wants to audit the hiring, and see all the applicant submissions. So the better option is to read all the mail that came in during that period? Great. That'll take a while.

      --
      Serious? Seriousness is well above my pay grade.
    4. Re:No, wrong clonclusion. by soundguy · · Score: 2

      Who files everything manually? I have about 300 folders and the majority of my mail is routed to folders by sender, recipient, or subject via rules. I also have hundreds of forwarders to a handful of primary POP accounts, which is much easier than managing hundreds of individual POP accounts. The only thing in my inbox are a few messages from people who email me directly instead of using my customer service mailto links that pre-populate the subject line with my routing keywords. FWIW I still use Forte Agent as my client.

      --
      Nothing worthwhile ever happens before noon
    5. Re:No, wrong clonclusion. by supercrisp · · Score: 2

      That was pretty much my thought, except worded as "students suck." It's hard to search for content or have reliable filtering when you get random gibberish or nothing explaining that file attachment. And user names are useless when they're crap like jabarjamshard_2000 or sexyprince411. So I have hot keys to throw things into a teaching folder, which I can then scroll through by date. Yes, it blows. But it's the way it has to be. I don't know where the "getting things done" types work that they can delete e-mail after dealing with it. At my job, I have to have all sorts of crap lingering around, to prove a case (about absences, plagiarism, lack of preparedness, etc), or to go look up something unimportant that suddenly became important because Dean Whackadoo has a bee in his bottom that morning.

    6. Re:No, wrong clonclusion. by coastwalker · · Score: 2

      Agree. I have 6 offline email folders with 6 Gb of emails up to 5 years old. My corporate inbox falls over with 100MB in it. I use search of course but also archive by project. My email is a knowledge base that amplifies my memory in my technical role and is a productivity boost that most corporate IT and HR (delete all old email in case we get taken to court - by patent trolls & similar parasites) regard as a problem. Search alone does not give me context. The article is flawed if you use it to extend to all use cases.

      --
      Facts are history now plebs have politics for religion on social media.
    7. Re:No, wrong clonclusion. by JoeMerchant · · Score: 4, Insightful

      for most people putting emails in folders is a waste of time.

      Many (most) people I know spend most of their work day on various wastes of time - sorting your mail not only makes you look busy while you do it, it also produces a tangible product of your labor, and gives you something to act overwhelmed about after you've been out for 3 days at a trade show: "I'll be working through my Inbox all morning."

    8. Re:No, wrong clonclusion. by Gideon+Wells · · Score: 1

      Yeah, I've seen this to be the case.

      I throw stuff in folders in case I have to leave my job and my successor needs some facsimile of order. Otherwise I use a search. Sometimes I use the folders to as a search by category.

      --
      by Anonymous Coward: I, for one, welcome the shift from car analogies to pizza analogies. um.. overlords?
    9. Re:No, wrong clonclusion. by Rich0 · · Score: 1

      Here's what I've found:

      1. For mail that can be effectively sorted automatically, do so. I'm talking 99+% accuracy here - like filtering on list headers or something.

      2. For situations where folder sorting helps with short-term projects/organization, go ahead. So, if I'm soliciting feedback on some proposal, go ahead and create a "feedback" folder that I put stuff in to go through later. Ditch the folder as soon as the task is completed. Another case of this is the high/med/low folders I create after I come back from vacation for a week or so.

      3. Otherwise, just create one folder called "archive" and stuff everything into it.

      The problem with organizing stuff into folders is that it costs you time for EVERYTHING you get, and it only saves you time if you go back to that particular email (and the folder helps you find it faster than a search would). What I've found is that 80% of my email is one-time-read stuff and so most of the time the effort to sort is completely wasted. Then, when I do need to go back unless it was just in the last few days I end up searching anyway, and if it is in the last few days I can usually quickly sort the archive folder. Now, folders can speed up lousy search algorithms, but the solution to that is to fix the brain-dead email software.

    10. Re:No, wrong clonclusion. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

          Shouldn't that be, people in the small sample set, suck at organizing emails?

      Everything is relative. That is not a small sample, unless you are doing a clinic study where you require a tiny margin of error. Another problem is that the article does not include numbers or details about the research.

      Now, if such a large of people percentage "suck" at "organizing" emails, that's food for thought. What is the goal? What does it meant to be a looser or successful organizer? Is organization needed? Why? Why not?

      It's a very interesting topic. I'm glad somebody is looking into that.

    11. Re:No, wrong clonclusion. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Neither your conclusion nor the conclusion suggested by the summary ("searchers are smarter and faster") are entirely correct.

      The most correct conclusion is that for most people searching using an automated function is faster than searching manually, and that sorting emails into folders serves another function.

      Most importantly, is it possible, just maybe, that there are those of us who do both?

      There are lots of reasons to sort emails into other folders other than the speed of finding them manually. First, lots of email systems get much, much slower if emails are all in one folder. Second, I get a ton of emails every day, and I use my inbox as a way of focusing my attention on certain high-priority items. My inbox is where I leave things that need attention; folders are archives that I search later, usually using an automated function. Third, sometimes searches fail: for whatever reason, I just don't use the correct combination of search terms or targets, and eventually find it by searching manually. Finally, the emails in a given folder are often closely related enough that it is helpful to browse through all of them if I need to.

      I imagine that tagging emails might work well too, if not for the first issue with speed, and the fact that most tagging systems aren't quite as developed as they would need to be to be used as a replacement for folders. Also, in a very important sense, it's not any different from sorting into folders, except that you can have multiple tags.

    12. Re:No, wrong clonclusion. by snadrus · · Score: 1

      I have 4 folders (getting paid/recognized, educational, Customer-facing, everything else) but rarely go looking for anything because if I file it then I've handled it. My inbox (after 5 years) has 10 to-do items in it. Once done, I'm unlikely to look for anything. But in my job, if I miss something then I'm in big trouble, so this system's optimized for nothing getting missed. And I trash everything unless needed for liability or reference.

      --
      Science & open-source build trust from peer review. Learn systems you can trust.
    13. Re:No, wrong clonclusion. by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      Most people I know don't file emails. They set up filters so that email is automatically filed into the right place as it comes it.

      It's ridiculously easy with any decent mail client that lets you take an email and automatically create a filter from it - Outlook, at least, seems to be getting it right most of the time.

    14. Re:No, wrong clonclusion. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Kinda like kanban boards.

  4. Depends on your email volume by mehrotra.akash · · Score: 2

    If you have 100+ mails coming in on a daily basis, and have 6-7 years worth of mail to search through, folders can be useful for cutting down the search time atleast, esp. if you are able to setup rules to route the mails to folders automatically (Even with indexing, sometimes it takes a few seconds to complete the search)

    1. Re:Depends on your email volume by snowgirl · · Score: 3, Insightful

      When I was working for a Particularly Large Software Company, I received a large number of automated emails every day from automated build processes. These emails were automatically filed into a special folder, so that they didn't clutter my inbox, and ping my smart phone every single time I got one of them. This followed through later for "Out of Office" emails, and a few others.

      Of course, as such, the only reason why I had folders was to keep a particular set of emails from pinging my smart phone, and bugging me all day, every day constantly with email build progress updates.

      --
      WARNING! This girl exceeds the MAXIMUM SAFE standards established by the FDA for BRATTINESS
    2. Re:Depends on your email volume by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I have to ask, what do you do where 100 emails a day is routine? And why would you have to search through 7 years' worth of mail?

    3. Re:Depends on your email volume by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just curious, but how many off those 100+ emails, are from mailing lists? If you aren't already filtering mailing lists to folders, you're an idiot.

      And if you ARE getting 100+ emails a day, and haven't figured out how to organize something that works well for you, well, you're an idiot still.

    4. Re:Depends on your email volume by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is necessary in consulting as you have many clients and need CYA.

    5. Re:Depends on your email volume by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As a manager, it's a good day when I don't get 100+ emails. What does that comprise of?
      * requests directly to me
      * escalations from my directs.
      * cc'd email from my directs on milestones, etc. -- information I need to know and may need to refer to later on, but doesn't need my direct attention.
      * group/company wide emails/policy changes/etc.
      * non-work related email -- which doesn't make for that much at all.

      I think when you're a front line manager, you have it the worst of all, especially if you were promoted. I still have my usual workload + all the things I have to deal with now that I manage people. A few levels up and you deal with mostly escalations from below and mandates from above. More stressful perhaps, but generally less email volume. When I speak with my IT folks they say the ones with the largest email folders are the ones that are either supervisors, or 1st/2nd level managers.

      It was great in my pre-management days when I could clear out my inbox and call 50 emails/day alot.

    6. Re:Depends on your email volume by iluvcapra · · Score: 1

      if you are able to setup rules to route the mails to folders automatically

      For any filing rule predicate there exists a search predicate you can run later.

      --
      Don't blame me, I voted for Baltar.
    7. Re:Depends on your email volume by Ocker3 · · Score: 1

      I'm subscribed to a huge number of discussion lists, and there are a number of automated systems that e-mail me as well. I only want to read those e-mails at certain times, if they're auto-sorted into folders then I'm not wasting time doing it myself. An obvious failure in the study was not looking at people who use rules to auto-sort. I may not know what a relevant keyword is, I may only have a general idea, or a time. Much faster to find the right folder and start scrolling. A mega-inbox and search is Not efficient for my purposes.

    8. Re:Depends on your email volume by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 1

      Email Noise is almost as bad as spam. All those automated emails do no "communicating" at all, even though that is what they are supposed to do. The signal to noise ratio is too much. I am reminded of the big grandfather clock we had in our house, the thing was noisy as all getup, but we didn't even hear it after awhile. Our guests sure noticed it though. Usually drove them to distraction.

      --
      Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
    9. Re:Depends on your email volume by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you are on 10 or 20 mailing lists, the search predicate for "the rest" is going to be huge.

    10. Re:Depends on your email volume by lastfish · · Score: 1

      In Outlook: I have a rule to filter all mail I expect to be important (e.g. from my leaders; addressed directly to me, certain keywords in the subject) to an "Attention" folder which I use as my default. Anything else, known, that doesn't usually need attention (automated reports, marketing etc.) is auto-filed.

      This allows me to concentrate on "Attention" (named to sort to the top) and have Inbox for things I should check on sometime.

      When searching is necessary I use an external tool X1 which auto-indexes mail and files. I don't know how it stacks up against competitors ( I hear good things about Xobni ) but it works fine. Often though it's simplest to go directly to the folder but with auto-archiving enabled that gets annoying for anything but recent mails.

    11. Re:Depends on your email volume by foniksonik · · Score: 1

      I get that now but add sales reports, infrastructure alerts, workflow tasks, source control, continuous integration and content updates and merchandise changes. Folders and rules are essential. I still have to archive manually on occasion to move/delete any ppt or psd files being emailed or my mailbox fills up.

      --
      A fool throws a stone into a well and a thousand sages can not remove it.
    12. Re:Depends on your email volume by JoeMerchant · · Score: 1

      Ditching Outlook is pretty good at cutting down the search time too - anything else I have used does search better.

    13. Re:Depends on your email volume by Rich0 · · Score: 2

      So, if you're archiving list traffic, by all means filter on the headers - that is just brain-dead simple.

      However, in general if your search routine struggles with 100 emails/day * 7 years, then you need a better search routine. I think that is the biggest problem with most email clients - the search indexing is pretty lousy. If Google can index half of the Internet and retrieve results in milliseconds, then my email program should be able to sort through 200k emails in less than 10 seconds.

    14. Re:Depends on your email volume by oh_my_080980980 · · Score: 0

      THANK YOU!

    15. Re:Depends on your email volume by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Boy, I bet your legal department loves you archiving all that trash. Hope you never get tied up in a work legal situation where they have to go thru all those emails. I only keep emails that are so important that I spend the time to actually save them off as a PDF. I think I have saved 20 over 12 years. All other mail is dumped after our standard 60 day server time limit.

    16. Re:Depends on your email volume by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      6-7 years of email to search through?

      We have these 'document retention rules'... oldest email I've got at work is 2 years old. Most get aged off at 6 months.

    17. Re:Depends on your email volume by snowgirl · · Score: 1

      Email Noise is almost as bad as spam. All those automated emails do no "communicating" at all, even though that is what they are supposed to do.

      eh... this particular email noise was more like a running log, and actually when I was in charge of the build, it was nice to receive those messages (because it would email you if it hit a build break). Sure most of the time I didn't want to see the emails, but having them as a record helped significantly.

      --
      WARNING! This girl exceeds the MAXIMUM SAFE standards established by the FDA for BRATTINESS
    18. Re:Depends on your email volume by WuphonsReach · · Score: 1

      If you have 100+ mails coming in on a daily basis, and have 6-7 years worth of mail to search through, folders can be useful for cutting down the search time atleast, esp. if you are able to setup rules to route the mails to folders automatically (Even with indexing, sometimes it takes a few seconds to complete the search)

      If that's your only concern, just file it by year. Fast to file, fairly easy to search over leaving everything in the Inbox.

      --
      Wolde you bothe eate your cake, and have your cake?
    19. Re:Depends on your email volume by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      umm - google doesn't index-and-search in milliseconds - it indexes in some-amount-of-time, and then, in milliseconds, searches.

      one does not equal the other.

    20. Re:Depends on your email volume by Rich0 · · Score: 1

      Uh, yes, well, that is the whole point of indexing - spend time when you don't care so that you save time when you do care.

  5. Folders to avoid Crackberry replication by Gothmolly · · Score: 1

    I only autofile stuff into folders when I don't want it coming over on the Blackberry.

    --
    I want to delete my account but Slashdot doesn't allow it.
  6. Odd Conclusion by sgrover · · Score: 1

    Did they only evaluate those who manually sort their mail? Having the server put mail into appropriate folders doesn't take any time at all once it is set up.

    Most of the mail I need access to was in the last few days. When I have to search in my mail client, I'm lucky if the search results come anywhere near close to what I'm looking for.

    So, thanks IBM, but I'll stick with the folder approach until such time as the default search capabilities (in ThunderChicken, LookOut, etc) improve.

    1. Re:Odd Conclusion by hedwards · · Score: 1

      The problem is that unless the sorting mechanism is perfect you can wind up in the situation where you never see an email and don't know that it's even arrived.

      I personally, cut down greatly on my work by sorting mailing lists into their own place, but unless there's an easy way of filtering it out, I let it hit my inbox so that I see it before either deleting it, acting on it or ignoring it.

    2. Re:Odd Conclusion by QuasiSteve · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The problem is that unless the sorting mechanism is perfect you can wind up in the situation where you never see an email and don't know that it's even arrived.

      Wouldn't your mail client indicate that you have N unread e-mails (sometimes configurable to only show those N from up to M days ago) in the folder it was sorted to?
      Pretty hard to miss.

      I do think the researchers' claim is a bit silly, but your concern is tangential with another..

      The researchers checked two groups:
      1. Those who simply let the computer search their entire inbox (be that with or without sorted folders) for the e-mail.
      2. Those who go to the sorted folder they believe the e-mail to be in, and then manually look through all of the e-mails in that folder hoping to spot it.

      The second group isn't very realistic. More commonly (that I've seen), that group goes to the folder that they believe the e-mail to be in, and then let the computer search that folder. That means the computer doesn't have to look through, say, 2,000 e-mails - it only has to look through, say, 100.
      Depending on whether or not the computer can scan every folder faster than you can click to the folder, the latter can be much faster. Certainly on older computers with slow harddisks.

      However, there is one problem that crops up... what if the folder you think the e-mail is in, is not where it actually is. What if the e-mail from John about Vacation isn't in the folder 'John' but in the folder 'Vacation'?
      That's where time is usually wasted, which often results in having to search all of the folders anyway if you don't remember which other folder(s) it might be in.

      I think the vastly increased speed with which e-mails can be searched - especially if you use e.g. gmail which can search many times faster than your home box - does mean that folders become less important in terms of organizing e-mails for faster retrieval purposes. They'll still have their place for organization in general, though (i.e. 'work' vs 'personal') - but alongside tags and 'search folders'.

    3. Re:Odd Conclusion by plover · · Score: 1

      The problem is that unless the sorting mechanism is perfect you can wind up in the situation where you never see an email and don't know that it's even arrived.

      Outlook (assuming you are using outlook) has an "Unread Mail" pseudo-folder that shows every unread email in every folder, not just your inbox. I automatically filter the automated build notices, the lesser-importance statistics reports, mailing lists, etc., into their own folders so they don't show up on the mobile phone. Daily when I'm at my desk I'll scan the unread mail folder looking at the statistics and reports. Otherwise, everything just stays in the Inbox, which I archive quarterly.

      If I'm reading on the phone and realize I'm going to need my desktop machine to answer the question, I'll mark the email unread, then pick it up later.

      I auto-categorize email from my boss (and up the chain to the VP) with a red color. If I'm scheduled for conflicting meetings, it helps me quickly decide which one I'll be attending.

      I have tried project folders a couple of times, but folders really work poorly for me. Folders make me choose at read-time the most important attribute that I will later search on, but that's never how I will refer them later. And quite often an email will bridge two folders: which to stick it in? That's unproductive.

      When it comes time to look up an old email, I remember people and time frames best. I'll open the proper quarter's archive and sort by person or subject, and most often will find what I need in less than five seconds. I also generally know a keyword in the email I'm looking for, allowing effective searches of the archive, but Outlook's search is pathetically slow so it's my weapon of last resort.

      I used to be all worried about filtering and deleting spam, but really it didn't prove to be worth my time; and the false positives in the automated filters caused me to miss some important messages making the effort have a net negative value. And it turned out not to matter. When I'm searching, the keywords I search on aren't in the spam messages, nor are the authors or Cc:s, so the spam doesn't actually interfere with me. When I archive, I will occasionally sort by attachment and/or size and delete spam with attachments; and once a year or so I may sort the archive by author and delete the spammy names, but that's about the maximum effort I'll waste.

      --
      John
    4. Re:Odd Conclusion by houghi · · Score: 1

      However, there is one problem that crops up... what if the folder you think the e-mail is in, is not where it actually is. What if the e-mail from John about Vacation isn't in the folder 'John' but in the folder 'Vacation'?

      For that reason I sort mails by people, groups or departments.
      People will be mails I MUST follow up, like from my boss. Groups will be people that I work often with and then departments.

      Where I am now I do not get much external mails, otherwise I would sort them as a separate group. So it is all sorted by sender as most of the time I or somebody else knows who send the mail.

      I do not mix work and personal mail.

      And then once every few months I will put everything older then 6 months in one backup folder. For my mailboxes at home I delete older mails.

      --
      Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
    5. Re:Odd Conclusion by Jaruzel · · Score: 1

      Wow, I'm glad I'm not alone in this. You basically described exactly how I work in Outlook, right down to the 'mark it as unread again' and emails bridging two subjects.

      I'm constantly in a love/hate relationship with outlook (and, no, I can't change clients as I'm talking about my work inbox), always trying to new way to manage my mail, and always basically failing and reverting back to the search function to find anything.

      My current tactic is that I plan to write a macro that files any mail in my inbox older than 1 month into the relevant archive folder, i.e. 2011-Q1 - I want this done automatically, as I will almost definitely forget.

      I get on average 200 mails a day, of which 100+ are important enough that I have to at least read them or at most deal with them. Such is the life of a first tier manager (as mentioned further up in the comments).

      What most people have overlooked, is the perfect way to deal with a busy inbox; Hire a PA. Granted that's not always an option (certainly not where I work for the level I'm at). But having someone else dedicated to managing your email really does free up a lot of time and can make you uber efficient (or so my Better Half tells me...).

      -Jar

      --
      Together, We Can Make Slashdot Better. I Do NOT Mod ACs. - Check Me Out
    6. Re:Odd Conclusion by JoeMerchant · · Score: 1

      The problem is that unless the sorting mechanism is perfect you can wind up in the situation where you never see an email and don't know that it's even arrived.

      Or... if the message was truly important, the sender would try again, perhaps via an alternate channel. I live my life in such a manner that every scrap of information that comes my way does not have to be scoured as a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity, too much crap comes my way, the important stuff will distinguish itself or it will be ignored.

    7. Re:Odd Conclusion by StuartHankins · · Score: 1

      In Thunderbird I have auto-sorting to maybe 20 folders, and several saved searches. One of these saved searches is "Last 24 hours" which records everything sent or received in the last 24 hours. This makes it relatively simple to see what's new, and ensure I don't miss emails.

    8. Re:Odd Conclusion by plover · · Score: 1

      My current tactic is that I plan to write a macro that files any mail in my inbox older than 1 month into the relevant archive folder, i.e. 2011-Q1 - I want this done automatically, as I will almost definitely forget.

      You probably won't forget. What I've noticed is that over time my inbox becomes so densely populated that performance suffers, at which time I have a "duh" moment, and clean it up manually. Since our email volumes and other habits are so similar, this probably isn't far from how you handle it, either. :-) Anyway, if it really bothers you, schedule yourself a monthly "clean up Outlook" reminder task. It takes no coding to accomplish, even if it does take some of your time.

      For now, I've stopped worrying about optimizing Outlook any further. Search barely-but-adequately meets my needs, to the point where additional attention won't bring additional value. I figure I can keep going the way I have been at least until the next version of Windows and Office is installed on the corporate machinery. Maybe they'll do search better.

      Anyway, for other things to try, one of my coworkers swore by using Xobni as an Outlook "search enhancer". It's an Outlook plug-in plus an NT service that indexes everything in Outlook, including all your PST files, making search instant. I tried it but didn't care much for the performance hit to my laptop. I also refuse to install Google Desktop, as Google was discovered to be harvesting personal search data back up to the mothership, including things like sooper-sekrit internal URLs.

      --
      John
  7. Automatic Filing by Nithin+Philips · · Score: 1

    What about people who have their emails automatically filed through filters (like Sieve on the IMAP server) and search them when they need to? Their productivity must the through the roof.

    --
    Einmal ist Keinmal. What happens but once might as well not have happened at all.
    1. Re:Automatic Filing by BeShaMo · · Score: 1

      Yeah, I was thinking that as well. I use a filter (admittedly crude, since the filtering in Outlook sucks) to do an initial break up of the incoming emails (roughly 4-500 on a daily basis). Essentially a don't-bother-at-all folder, keep-an-eye-on folder, probably-needs-attention folder + plus some archiving folders for stuff like CVS diffs and things like that, that may or may not be automated. Everything else goes in my inbox, but it cuts my inbox from 500 daily emails to about 20-30 which is much more managable. I also know which folders contains what when I need to do a search, which cuts down search time significantly.

    2. Re:Automatic Filing by dotancohen · · Score: 1

      What about people who have their emails automatically filed through filters (like Sieve on the IMAP server) and search them when they need to? Their productivity must the through the roof.

      Those are the people who value their time, and thus did answer the survey.

      --
      It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong.
    3. Re:Automatic Filing by foniksonik · · Score: 1

      You still use CVS?

      --
      A fool throws a stone into a well and a thousand sages can not remove it.
  8. Not 354 users by scdeimos · · Score: 1

    345 users, and still statistically insignificant.

    1. Re:Not 354 users by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      So, what sample size would be big enough for you? IMO, in this particular test the sampling method is more important than the sample size.

  9. no way - wrong search terms leave things behind by rubycodez · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Project folders are superior, especially as time passes one can't remember proper keyword to bring up all relevant emails. Yes, I've used e-mail systems that were folderless and only search was possible, not quite as useful.

    1. Re:no way - wrong search terms leave things behind by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I must say I am exactly the opposite.
      I can pretty much always remember keywords to find the mails, but for the love of god, I cant find the folder I put it in again.
      Its probably because I am bad at organizing things.

    2. Re:no way - wrong search terms leave things behind by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      Yes the headline is quite counter intuitive when you read the summary.

      Apparently the filers are using their inbox as a to-do list rather than wanting to categorize information to find it more easily.

      So users dual purpose their inbox and yet are apparently wasting their time right?

      I agree with you folders are incredibly useful when used in a job context, not only for finding your emails but also for longterm project documentation. Our work policy is that when a project is finished all the emails relevant to that project get filed in the project folder on a harddisk somewhere. Good luck doing that if they are spread amongst the 100 other emails / day you got over the year long project.

    3. Re:no way - wrong search terms leave things behind by LongearedBat · · Score: 1

      Plus, with a dedicated folder one gets an uncluttered overview of a specific topic.

    4. Re:no way - wrong search terms leave things behind by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Additionally search doesn't usually find mispelt instances.

      At work I have a few folders for parts of my job. If the information is something I'm going to need again, or may need again, I put them in there when I'm finished with them.

      This has the added benefit of not accidentally deleting things you intended to keep (without noticing). I go through the inbox probably once a week after I've moved things I need to keep into subfolders and delete things that are no longer needed. Keeps all those useless emails from slowing down searches.

      Occationally I'll take a look into those subfolders for anything that has lost it's relevance as well. Particularly in cases where the information it gave (a procedure for instance) was changed or updated.

      Searching can help, but keeping things organized certainly helps and might even reduce your need to depend on the machine to find your information for you.

    5. Re:no way - wrong search terms leave things behind by DerekLyons · · Score: 1

      Project folders are superior, especially as time passes one can't remember proper keyword to bring up all relevant emails.

      Especially since searching assumes that all your correspondents have been kind enough to use the appropriate keywords in their messages.

    6. Re:no way - wrong search terms leave things behind by jez9999 · · Score: 1

      An alternative to that is tagging the e-mails with the project name, I guess, but that's conceptually similar to putting them in a separate folder.

    7. Re:no way - wrong search terms leave things behind by maraist · · Score: 1

      Depends what's meant by 'putting in separate folder'. Can an email have exactly one parent? Then what happens when you have 50 folders, each with 300 unread items. Is this more or less organized?

      My preference is to have 100% of emails show up in inbox - but be auto-tagged. This is better than traditional folders because there is more than one parent.

      todo, Reference, todelete, asap, projX, companyY, contactCategoryZ, personal, mailinglist, mailinglistX, etc

      For each new email, I set up a rule to tag all similar emails (90% are todel). BUT, because they always show up to INBOX, I have a half second glance to decide if that email needed TODO/Reference, or if I don't want it todelete for some reason.

      Searching on tags is superior to remembering keywords, because you can navigate the tags (just like folders). And depending on your email tool, you can mix and match "(tags:foo or tags:bar) subject:sales".

      --
      -Michael
    8. Re:no way - wrong search terms leave things behind by Twinbee · · Score: 1

      Well then just tag the file with what you would've called the folder. And let the client give a list of the tags.

      Metadata systems are a superset of folders, and the sooner we embrace them, the sooner we'll reach the future.

      --
      Why OpalCalc is the best Windows calc
    9. Re:no way - wrong search terms leave things behind by JoeMerchant · · Score: 1

      Project folders are superior, especially as time passes one can't remember proper keyword to bring up all relevant emails. Yes, I've used e-mail systems that were folderless and only search was possible, not quite as useful.

      Depends on how often you actually do a history search. I had IT wipe my e-mail history after 2 years (OS upgrade from XP to Vista, told them the only thing I cared about on the XP machine was my e-mail history, they still screwed it up.) It was somewhat liberating, I used to do an e-mail history search about once a month for whatever random reason, that search was fruitful somewhat less than 50% of the time. After the history was gone, I didn't have to do the search and simply soldiered on without that little scrap of written history - it didn't really hurt at all, the information was always available from other sources, and often the new source was more relevant than a years old e-mail.

    10. Re:no way - wrong search terms leave things behind by Qzukk · · Score: 1

      Bah, I just have a button that autobounces email with a demand that they send it with a proper subject of [project] [ticket#] Re: [subject]

      My boss loves it!

      --
      If I have been able to see further than others, it is because I bought a pair of binoculars.
    11. Re:no way - wrong search terms leave things behind by rubycodez · · Score: 1

      great idea! of course we don't have tickets but I'll just bounce everything and demand that format

    12. Re:no way - wrong search terms leave things behind by rubycodez · · Score: 1

      that takes longer than filing something in a folder. and remember, I can still search if need be

    13. Re:no way - wrong search terms leave things behind by Twinbee · · Score: 1

      Tags you've already assigned to previous files can essentially *act* as folders anyway (a list of tags sorted by date can be added to an accompanying dropdown just before you save or load). Of course, I think most would rather type in the name of the tag anyway (instead of navigating through folders), so that's possible if you'd prefer to do that.

      Unfortunately, searches even in Win7 take on the order of seconds instead of milliseconds, and you can't save tags easily, unless you put everything in the filename.

      --
      Why OpalCalc is the best Windows calc
    14. Re:no way - wrong search terms leave things behind by rwa2 · · Score: 1

      Not to mention that my projects tend to start overlapping eventually as things get woven together, or maybe someone else is on both project teams and sends me one email with a little bit about each.

      I do use folders to "weed out" a few big categories using mail filters, such as "lists", the mostly useless corporate "newsletters", maybe one for automated alerts/notifications. Everything else that I might possibly need to look up later just goes into one big searchable Inbox.

      What I really need to do is stop treating my normal Inbox like a "To Do"/"To Sort" folder, and making a dedicated TODO folder so things that don't get prioritized there can automatically be put into the archived inbox after a first pass. For now I can usually keep up, but if I got busier I'd certainly need to start doing this.

    15. Re:no way - wrong search terms leave things behind by Blakey+Rat · · Score: 1

      Well, Outlook has its "Red Flag" system which turns your email, no matter what folder it's in, into a "to do" item instantly. Same with Gmail's and Thunderbird's "star" feature.

      So, depending on the client, using a folder as a "to do" list very well might be a total waste of time.

      Then again, as another post says, IBM subjects their users to Lotus Notes-- so what the hell could they possibly know about email?

    16. Re:no way - wrong search terms leave things behind by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      Well, Outlook has its "Red Flag" system which turns your email, no matter what folder it's in, into a "to do" item instantly.

      Depends if you work on one big project or lots of little projects. The number of different colours available in a flag is insufficient for my purposes. Additionally if you use IMAP then you only have 1 colour available.

      IBM subjects their users to Lotus Notes-- so what the hell could they possibly know about email?

      You just made my day :)

  10. In the business place you use outlook 2003 by hilather · · Score: 1

    And filing is necessary because outlook and run its search for days. When you file your emails, you can search just within that folder, and its much faster. I supposed if you're using outlook 2010 maybe its faster because of its indexing, but its still not very organized.

    1. Re:In the business place you use outlook 2003 by davidbrit2 · · Score: 1

      Even in Outlook 2010, the search functionality isn't that great. Sometimes it takes so stinking long, I just grab my iPad and do the searching on there (and get the results much faster, which is kind of sad).

  11. Makes sense by ksd1337 · · Score: 1

    I use Gmail. I used to use the labels for a while, but I got lazy with it. The search feature gets me what I want 99% of the time (1% is when I can't remember anything about the message I need to find). It's faster too---why click through folders or tags or labels when you can just type?

    1. Re:Makes sense by Zancarius · · Score: 1

      I use Gmail. I used to use the labels for a while, but I got lazy with it. The search feature gets me what I want 99% of the time (1% is when I can't remember anything about the message I need to find). It's faster too---why click through folders or tags or labels when you can just type?

      I use both: Labels for mailing lists or things that I don't particularly want to go into the inbox, and then search for everything else. Folders/tags/labels are mostly useful if you're not looking for anything in particular and are mostly interested in browsing, say, a mailing list. Although, I admit that I'm on several mailing lists and don't always through everything--especially higher volume ones--since there are some I only lurk for notifications related to breaking changes and such.

      --
      He who has no .plan has small finger. ~ Confucius on UNIX
    2. Re:Makes sense by Whuffo · · Score: 1

      Protip: use Gmail's filters to automatically label and/or move messages into folders as they arrive. This gets you the best of both worlds; no hassles putting labels on things, and you can search the whole works as easily as you'd search a huge inbox.

    3. Re:Makes sense by zippthorne · · Score: 2

      Why click through tags even if you DO use them? You can use the "label:blah" (i think, or it might be "infolder:" )as a search term to search combinations of them, including negative combinations.

      --
      Can you be Even More Awesome?!
    4. Re:Makes sense by DrXym · · Score: 1
      I use filters in Gmail because it's a handy way to mass select mail that matches more than one criteria and get rid of it. e.g. my wife helpfully signed my up to a bunch of daily deals websites. So I tagged all this spam with a filter and I can delete that shit with a few clicks without typing out the pattern of each deal site every time. Labelling is also useful for highlighting particular important incoming email, or of tagging spam / automated crap. I still think folders are useful. I have emails going back years which match to a filter but I don't have any reason to reference them every day but I still want to keep them around. Gmail has a pseudo behaviour to do this - archive the email and it disappears from inbox but still filters, but I'd still prefer a regular folder.

      BTW I'm only using GMail because Thunderbird became so utterly useless at spam filtering that I gave up on it. GMail is actually a really good email client and certainly the best web client I've used.

  12. Some of each. by riverat1 · · Score: 1

    As a sys admin I file some things like software feature enablers, communications with vendor support and documentation of the sys admin things I do (for the yearly review). But I also search the inbox for things of a more transient nature.

  13. It's not always about search time by proxima · · Score: 2

    I let my inbox fill up for 3-12 months and massively archive it in one swoop to a small number of folders (about 15). I actually use search quite a bit to help do that sorting faster. What this cleanout process does is force me to delete messages that I'm 99.999% sure I'll never want to see again. They can just clutter up search results and casual browsing.

    As messages come in, I use flags to ensure that messages I need to eventually respond to don't get lost in the shuffle. Some frequent, automated stuff gets automatically archived (e.g. amazon purchases), just to help keep the recent inbox low on clutter.

    Archiving has advantages and disadvantages. On my personal email account, archived messages are offline; this makes search (or re-indexing) faster but leaves me without those messages when away from my laptop. But more than anything I archive because a single inbox with X years and tens of thousands of messages is pretty cluttered, and I know that eventually I'll want to sort through them to eliminate messages that will never be useful. Fortunately, that's rarely true spam in my case. There's also the odd email I've forgotten about that I have to follow up on, if I forgot to flag it appropriately. What's the cost? Maybe 4 hours a year.

    --
    "The universe seems neither benign nor hostile, merely indifferent." --Carl Sagan
    1. Re:It's not always about search time by swillden · · Score: 2

      On my personal email account, archived messages are offline; this makes search (or re-indexing) faster but leaves me without those messages when away from my laptop. But more than anything I archive because a single inbox with X years and tens of thousands of messages is pretty cluttered, and I know that eventually I'll want to sort through them to eliminate messages that will never be useful.

      Not me. In my personal e-mail account I have every non-spam e-mail message I've received since 1996, and I see no reason why I should ever take the time to sort through them and eliminate useless cruft. Why should I? Decent search means I can always find what I'm looking for, and keeping everything means there's no chance that I deleted it just because at one point in time I thought it would be useless. Heck, I've even at times gone through old e-mails which are in and of themselves useless, but collectively give clues about when some sequence of important life events happened in the past.

      Given the way storage capacities keep growing, I see no reason to ever delete any e-mail (spam aside).

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    2. Re:It's not always about search time by TheGratefulNet · · Score: 1

      Given the way storage capacities keep growing, I see no reason to ever delete any e-mail (spam aside).

      this should NOT be a reason. but this is 2011 and it is a reason.

      two words:

      search warrant.

      it changes a lot of things. logs, files kept - which includes emails. encrypting is not safe but deletion is.

      welcome to 2011. data 'lying around' can and will be used against you. if not for this, then for that.

      --

      --
      "It is now safe to switch off your computer."
    3. Re:It's not always about search time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In my personal e-mail account

      completely off-topic, we're discussing office workers ie. BUSINESS related email, not personal. Thank you for not reading even the first sentence of the summary.

    4. Re:It's not always about search time by JoeMerchant · · Score: 1

      My Gmail account is somewhere in the 10-20K message range in the Inbox, doesn't hamper its usefulness at all.

    5. Re:It's not always about search time by swillden · · Score: 1

      That's why I was talking about my personal e-mail account.

      Business e-mail is different. Many companies have policies in place that automatically delete old e-mails after a reasonable period of time, as a matter of legal hygiene. However, that just means there's even less reason to bother with organizing business e-mail, because the deletion means that there's even less problem with clutter confusing search.

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    6. Re:It's not always about search time by swillden · · Score: 1

      Heh. I just checked and my personal e-mail account (which is currently hosted on a Google Apps domain) has 41,178 e-mails in it, nearly 2.8 GiB.

      Search works just fine.

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
  14. So is IBM selling a solution to search Emails now? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Because that's why they'd release such a study.

  15. So... by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 2

    People are actually using email in two quite distinct ways; but one way is faster at doing what we thought everyone used email for, and is therefor better? Cool.

    Frankly, this sounds like a challenge for team search: computers are very good indeed, even with the quite basic desktop search mechanisms, not the fancy search engine stuff, at assorted glorified greps. You want all the emails that mention project X, or were sent by Mr. Y? No problem. You want to know when project X needs to be finished? Well, get all emails mentioning project X and start exploring the exciting universe of different natural language ways of suggesting that project X needs to be finished. Search isn't completely useless; but you've basically gone back to filing...

    I've seen a few hints of this in Gmail, which will pick out emails that appear to obviously be appointments or date/time combinations and offer to add them to your calendar; but further expansion would be nice. Aside from the people who are just conceptually crippled, it seems unlikely that users are sorting their emails into folders just because doing electronic shit work is all fun and giggles. They are likely doing it because search can't(or the advanced search features that can, they can't use) organize their email for them in the way they prefer it to be. Let's see a software agent that starts picking out salient topics, and piecing together a slightly creepy knowledge of it by watching your mailstream(and FFS, let's make it client side, or based on servers you control, not some you are a peon in the cloud plantation shit...)

    1. Re:So... by caitsith01 · · Score: 2

      Frankly, this sounds like a challenge for team search: computers are very good indeed, even with the quite basic desktop search mechanisms, not the fancy search engine stuff, at assorted glorified greps. You want all the emails that mention project X, or were sent by Mr. Y? No problem. You want to know when project X needs to be finished? Well, get all emails mentioning project X and start exploring the exciting universe of different natural language ways of suggesting that project X needs to be finished. Search isn't completely useless; but you've basically gone back to filing...

      You touch on the real reason to use folders: even you don't always know exactly what you're looking for. Human memory doesn't work like a computer's memory. So if you are in a busy work environment with thousands of emails flying around, and you suddenly remember that you got an email that might be relevant to something to do with a particular project approximately 4-5 months ago from one of a half-dozen people, how are you going to search for it?

      Nicely organised folders are superior for this task. Instead of tapping away at search terms trying to figure out a combination that works, you simply jump to the appropriate folder, flick back about 4-5 months and have a look through emails from that period of time relating to that project. Using folders saves you from sifting through piles and piles of unrelated crap - it's a broad brush way of reducing the complexity of the task. Sure you could probably achieve this via a search, but it's quicker IMHO to jump into the folder and then browse.

      In other words, search is good if you know exactly what you are after. Browsing folders is good if you want to... browse.

      --
      Read Pynchon.
    2. Re:So... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      computers are very good indeed, even with the quite basic desktop search mechanisms

      I strongly disagree. While internet search tools are very good and in theory you're right on the desktop every time I try to use a GUI desktop search tool they come up utterly wanting. Sorry, but the people who code these things are quite clueless.

      At an absolute bare minimum I must be confident that it will quickly find all instances of my search criteria if I want to rely on it. I've never seen a GUI search tool that actually does that. The microsoft windows one is typical - it's indexing tool is always running behind and search will often not report on stuff that I'm currently working on. Classic! And that's just for starters - it also makes it unreasonably difficult to search for all sorts of useful criteria and will report lots of useless hits because it's poor at distinguishing file formats e.g. will get lots of text hits on binaries. And to add insult to injury it's badly coded and has quite a high overhead for what it does.

    3. Re:So... by JoeMerchant · · Score: 1

      it seems unlikely that users are sorting their emails into folders just because doing electronic shit work is all fun and giggles

      I don't know, I see people play Farmville during their lunchbreak, pretty close to electronic shit work even if it is called a game. You don't even have to wait for lunchtime to take a break by sorting your e-mail.

  16. IBM Uses Lotus Notes for Email by Greyfox · · Score: 5, Insightful

    They're not what I'd call "Experts."

    --

    I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?

    1. Re:IBM Uses Lotus Notes for Email by kaoshin · · Score: 1

      Amen!

  17. There's an amazing thing called a "Filter" by msobkow · · Score: 1

    Add the time spent filing...

    Ever hear of this amazing technology called a "filter"? It lets you program your email client to do the filing automatically.

    Every email client I've used lets you search all your folders at once, so there is no difference in the amount of time it takes to search with either approach to email management.

    Did Google pay IBM for this "study"?

    --
    I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
    1. Re:There's an amazing thing called a "Filter" by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 1

      In the future, your primitive "filters" will be replaced by an IBM Watson site licence...

    2. Re:There's an amazing thing called a "Filter" by arth1 · · Score: 1

      The main problem with filters is that they act when the mail is received, not after it's read. So you have to go into umpteen different folders to read your mail.

      I sort into folders, and I keep everything. One problem that single inbox users frequently have is that they delete e-mail in order to keep the inbox manageable, and because they tend to use Exchange and fill up their inbox quota.
      So when they need something that is a few months old, they ask us others who actually file our e-mail whether we still have a copy. That's a very slow search algorithm right there.

      Because of the propensity for people to ask for attachments they've "lost" (i.e. deleted), I have started filing anything with attachments sent by a human in a special folder. Because that's where almost all the searches are going to be. But I wish they would do their own searches.

    3. Re:There's an amazing thing called a "Filter" by QuasiSteve · · Score: 1

      The main problem with filters is that they act when the mail is received, not after it's read. So you have to go into umpteen different folders to read your mail.

      That's a mail client shortcoming. If using Thunderbird, just set up a search folder for all unread mail - there you go.

    4. Re:There's an amazing thing called a "Filter" by Daniel_Staal · · Score: 1

      The main problem with filters is that they act when the mail is received, not after it's read. So you have to go into umpteen different folders to read your mail.

      No, that's the advantage of filters. So that when I'm reading a thread about FreeBSD, I don't have to worry about the thread about mail server outages. Or the one about how my cousin is doing in his triathlon. I can go read them when I have time, and the fact that I have or have not read them doesn't impact on my other folders: I can see if any new mail came in for any of them, individually.

      --
      'Sensible' is a curse word.
    5. Re:There's an amazing thing called a "Filter" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In Tbird, you can set each filter to only trigger when run manually. Then once a day (or whatever suits you) hit Run Now.
      Bam, done.

      (Would be better if you could trigger On-Read actions, but beggars/choosers.)

    6. Re:There's an amazing thing called a "Filter" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't thumb through all the folders to find unread mail.

      Use smart folders. Unread, attachments, mailing-lists etc..

  18. Unless you use Lotus Notes... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The supreme irony here is searching an inbox in Outlook 2007 or later is insanely easy, but not so much with Lotus Notes (IBM's database software that people pretend is an email client but is really some sort of memoing system). First of all, the IT department controls whether or not an index even exists, and may enable for some and not for others. And the syntax for searching is pathetic, and when searching, it only takes you to the message, rather than fitlering out all non-hits - and this is with the latest version of Notes.

    Notes users are almost forced to use folders to find anything.

  19. Unless .. by n5vb · · Score: 1

    .. you use client-side rules to do the majority of the sorting.

    Even rule-based sorting/routing into category-based folders is a useful heuristic. If the logic in the rules is reasonably smart, you save even more time.

    (And that's not even counting performance impact of storing and indexing a huge number of messages in one folder, or server-side purges that silently delete messages when your provider thinks you don't need them anymore, for those who swear by (and sometimes at) IMAP-client or webmail access.)

  20. Mod parent up! by khasim · · Score: 1

    Yeah, that's my experience as well. I'm sure you can use the automatic search function faster ... provided you have the exact string to search on.

    But thinking back even 2 years to what happening on a minor project and how to search for that? When there have been a dozen other projects using those same terms?

    Project folders are the way to go.

    1. Re:Mod parent up! by zippthorne · · Score: 1

      That depends on how powerful your search terms are.

      If you're looking for "every email for X project" then yeah, folders might be better, but if you're trying to find a piece of information from any particular project, you can almost certainly devise a set of search terms that specify what you're looking for more precisely than "it's in the folder."

      Only primitive email software won't allow combinations like "and, or, and near," wildcards and assertions like date ranges, senders, recipients, subjects and the like.

      --
      Can you be Even More Awesome?!
    2. Re:Mod parent up! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ditto.

      As a freelance web dev I work with many different clients. It would be simple to find all emails regarding a project by searching for emails from that client BUT on many of these projects I have collaborated with the same designer(s) so many of the emails are from them and unfortunately they don't always include a useful Subject line.

      By sorting emails for one project into its own folder I can narrow down my search more easily.

      I also use tagging for emails with deadlines, quotes, briefs and login details (Yes, I know, I'm making it easier for hackers to find server access details but I also have an encrypted home partition so if I loose my laptop they won't find shit!)

  21. Maybe IBM emeil users are 'special'? by gweihir · · Score: 1

    I know exactly what I use folders for, and it is not general searching. It is organizing different dialogs and projects so that I can find what the last or last few messages were. Also I have several mailing lists that get sorted into folders automatically on email-save-to-folder. Very convenient.

    I suspect the selection of users was 'special' and not in a positive sense.

    --
    Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    1. Re:Maybe IBM emeil users are 'special'? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, but when you need to go looking for something in those emails, how long does it take to retrieve what you are looking for? That is what they were measuring here. Your folder method takes 58 seconds on average, the search takes 17 seconds, according to the research. Convenience is a difficult thing to measure. Time to recall is not.

  22. Seems to be missing the point by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Folders aren't a search mechanism, they're an organization and triage mechanism.

    Then again, this is research from the people behind Lotus Notes...

  23. Delete by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Its easier to do CTRL+A, delete when they are all in the one folder. If it was important the person will send another email.

  24. Let the computer do it by Berkyjay · · Score: 1

    Funny thing is that I don't manually file any of my emails. That's what filters are for.

  25. Or... by drb226 · · Score: 1

    Use tagging *and* search. Run a global search, and scan the results for the tags you think you most likely applied to the email you are searching for. It doesn't have to be a dichotomy.

  26. Search? Ever used Outlook? by milbournosphere · · Score: 2

    Clearly nobody in the 354 person study uses Outlook. Worst. Search. Ever. I could see it in gmail maybe, but never in Outlook. I'd go crazy if I had to keep my work emails in the Inbox, or in one folder. In Outlook, organizing my email(filters or by hand) keeps me sane.

    1. Re:Search? Ever used Outlook? by hcs_$reboot · · Score: 1

      Tried Thunderbird?
      Inconvenient, slow and buggy. Misses some mails because it doesn't handle headers correctly.
      Yes this is about the newest version.

      --
      Slashdot, fix the reply notifications... You won't get away with it...
    2. Re:Search? Ever used Outlook? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Seconded. We get to use Outlook 2003. Even Google would have a difficult time correlating important emails together where I work, it's a disaster trying to use Outlook search.

    3. Re:Search? Ever used Outlook? by MagikSlinger · · Score: 1

      At my work, the IT department has crippled Outlook e-mail searching because their poor, massively underpowered Exchange server kept crashing under the load. Then, because the XP version of Windows desktop search was slowing boot up times, they crippled that too. Oh yeah, we're not allowed to run any other searching system.

      When I search for stuff in GMail, I find it. I rarely use labels as anything other than marking stuff I can safely delete. In Outlook, because of the crippled search, I put things into folders to help Outlook focus its search.

      --
      The bitter lessons of a veteran coder: http://bitterprogrammer.blogspot.com
    4. Re:Search? Ever used Outlook? by wvmarle · · Score: 1

      Mmm... i was just looking at the upcoming Ubuntu 11.10 where Thunderbird replaces Evolution.

      Then I read a review of a pre-release version written in August, saying TB is a great replacement of "the more limited Evolution". That was an interesting remark. If that is so, then TB really has come a long way over the year or two since I last tried it out. At the time I looked at TB as I don't really like Evolution, and it appeared the best alternative. Very soon I ditched TB for simply not working well and to this day am using Evolution for my e-mail needs.

    5. Re:Search? Ever used Outlook? by GoodNewsJimDotCom · · Score: 1

      Just save them on your hard drive, and use Vista's built in search. /joke

    6. Re:Search? Ever used Outlook? by The+Unusual+Suspect · · Score: 1

      I think Thunderbird is great for searching. I have an "All Mail" Search Folder saved on which I use the Quick Filter to find any message I want. Convenient, quick and bug free (in my experience). Can't vouch for it never missing an email, but I've always found what I needed.

    7. Re:Search? Ever used Outlook? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Outlook 2007/2010 plus Windows Search 4.0 on Windows XP or inbuilt in Vista/7 makes searching effortless.

      I'm a "searcher" and I can pull up e-mails from years ago with ease. Searching without an index is painful though, so I can only agree with parent if they've never tried Outlook with Windows Search enab.

    8. Re:Search? Ever used Outlook? by Y-Crate · · Score: 1

      Clearly nobody in the 354 person study uses Outlook. Worst. Search. Ever. I could see it in gmail maybe, but never in Outlook. I'd go crazy if I had to keep my work emails in the Inbox, or in one folder. In Outlook, organizing my email(filters or by hand) keeps me sane.

      I just want the ability to sort invites into a separate folder if they come in for another user for whom I'm a delegate.

      This enrages me every single day.

    9. Re:Search? Ever used Outlook? by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      Yea, searching in Outlook is painful.

      Personally, even if searching is faster than folders, wouldn't searching PLUS folders be better overall? Sounds like the sort of study where a micro manager is going to look over your shoulder and say "ur doing it wrong!"

    10. Re:Search? Ever used Outlook? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Clearly nobody in the 354 person study uses Outlook. Worst. Search. Ever. I could see it in gmail maybe, but never in Outlook. I'd go crazy if I had to keep my work emails in the Inbox, or in one folder. In Outlook, organizing my email(filters or by hand) keeps me sane.

      Remember the article on how most people don't know that their browser has a Find command?

      The number of people I've seen paging through folders looking for an email is just painful.

    11. Re:Search? Ever used Outlook? by Coldfinger · · Score: 1

      Agreed. However, there is a fix if changing client is not an option. The lookout-plugin makes searching in outlook not only usable, but fast too. Even on a multiple-GB inbox. Sadly Microsoft bought it and shut it down, but the old versions still works: http://www.vinodlive.com/2008/01/23/lookout-microsoft-outlook-search-tool-still-works/

    12. Re:Search? Ever used Outlook? by jon3k · · Score: 1

      mod this man up immediately. thats my problem exactly. if search was good I wouldn't sort them. when I use gmail I use search (along with tags+archive).

    13. Re:Search? Ever used Outlook? by JoeMerchant · · Score: 1

      Clearly nobody in the 354 person study uses Outlook. Worst. Search. Ever. I could see it in gmail maybe, but never in Outlook. I'd go crazy if I had to keep my work emails in the Inbox, or in one folder. In Outlook, organizing my email(filters or by hand) keeps me sane.

      I have a theory that there is a conspiracy within Microsoft to create busywork for the rest of the modern world, cripple us so they don't have to innovate as quickly to keep up.

    14. Re:Search? Ever used Outlook? by Randle_Revar · · Score: 1

      Outlook 2007 (and presumably 2010) with Windows Search 4.0 does ok in my experience.

    15. Re:Search? Ever used Outlook? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Tried Thuderbird 1.x? Before Mozilla proceeded to shat all over their UI?

      Once upon a time, TB was the speed king, fast and slim, and would beat the ever-loving shit out of Lookout Express and others. Now it's a half-zombie, roaming the world, the last bits of consciousness in it begging to have its brains shot out.

    16. Re:Search? Ever used Outlook? by MobyDisk · · Score: 1

      You forgot that Lotus Notes still exists. I understand why - I blotted it out of my mind 10 years ago when I had to use it, until I encountered it again. It has a search that only searches to: cc: and subject:. Not body. No tagging. No search summary. Just a next button. It makes Outlook look wonderful.

    17. Re:Search? Ever used Outlook? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I could not disagree more, in outlook 2007/2010 Outlook search is extreamly user frendly, within a matter of 2-3 seconds I typically have excatly what i'm looking for. And if you take the time to play with search, paramaters, you can do almost an infinate amout more.

      jpb

    18. Re:Search? Ever used Outlook? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How long has it been since you used search in outlook? Outlook 2010 uses Microsoft Indexing Service and does a really good job.

      http://www.addictivetips.com/microsoft-office/outlook-2010-advanced-search-query-builder/

    19. Re:Search? Ever used Outlook? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Really. I have found that search in Gmail fails to find things I'm looking for. When I pull everything into Outlook and do a search, it comes up right away.

    20. Re:Search? Ever used Outlook? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Periodically, I try to not file in outlook, I always run into this slight issue that the parent poster mentions. Outlook search just plain doesn't work. It takes forever, and the results are usually an empty set, and when it isn't it doesn't find obviously matching items. after filing. I always end up using sort order on a column and trying to narrow it down that way. I waste 20-30 minutes trying to find the thread, then create a folder for it. How many people in the sample had gigs of email going back 10 years? how many had inboxes with thousands of messages...

      I cannot even search contacts, and always pull out a blackberry to search those, because outlook cannot find people by where they work, or their last name, or any other trait... and I constantly have to tell it where to look? Why can I only look in either my personal address book or my contacts or active directory? It's horrible.

    21. Re:Search? Ever used Outlook? by slimme · · Score: 1

      I (have to) use Outlook 2010 and this version of Outlook finally has a decent search function. Almost as good as the Lookout plugin I used to use in Outlook 2003.

  27. I'm a stupid filer, at my workplace by MikeDawg · · Score: 2

    So, I am one of the stupid filers, at my workplace. But to help defend myself, I think the searching capabilities is most email clients is horrendous. If I had a gmail account for all my work related email, then that may be a different story, but unfortunately, I have to stick to the couple of email clients that I am allowed to use at work, and they can't search worth a damn. I am able to quickly find emails, without searching, as most people lag behind, and try to get the search in the email client to work properly.

    --

    YOU'RE WINNER !
    Another lame blog

    1. Re:I'm a stupid filer, at my workplace by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your company must still be using Windows XP. Windows 7 search is damn fast if your PC isn't a dino.

    2. Re:I'm a stupid filer, at my workplace by mjwx · · Score: 1

      If I had a gmail account for all my work related email, then that may be a different story, but unfortunately, I have to stick to the couple of email clients that I am allowed to use at work,

      It's important to note, Gmail does not use folders. Instead you tag emails with various titles and the search engine indexes them.

      I dont use folders on outlook because it does remove emails from a view and some folders are not searched by default (yes I use searches rather then folders on Outlook). To be frank I'm not sure why MS or anyone else has not copied Gmails idea of allowing users to tag emails with easily indexed labels rather then using the old folder system.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    3. Re:I'm a stupid filer, at my workplace by nathanbeach · · Score: 1

      I absolutely agree with this. In my home life, I search because Gmail Search actually works. At the office with Outlook, search is terrible, so I just put a few important things in a saved folder and delete everything else. And clear out my trash every quarter.

  28. Enterprise Vault by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Our company deployed Enterprise Vault to archive our mails, and now it doesn't matter if I file or not, because every search takes 10x as long.

    Oh, and it doesn't archive embedded images. So all those screenshots users sent me are now missing. Thanks, IT brains!

  29. "Reference" folder by Bodero · · Score: 5, Interesting
    I once read a Best Practices manual for Microsoft Outlook by the Outlook team that changed how I deal with email. The premise is this:
    • Have only two folders: Inbox, and Reference.
    • When an email comes in and it does not need to be acted on, read it, then move it to Reference.
    • If an email needs to be acted upon, leave it in your inbox until the task is complete. This may be hours, days, weeks or months. But everything in your inbox is something that is waiting on someone.

    I frequently had a habit of reading emails on my smartphone and forgetting about them. Now, I can either move them to Reference on my phone, or do it when I get back to my desk. But nothing slips through the cracks this way, which was a huge problem when I first got a smartphone.

    1. Re:"Reference" folder by Bourdain · · Score: 1
      I've been doing something very similar to this once I took the plunge into using Gmail.

      I only keep the emails that require some action in my inbox and everything goes into an archive folder.

      The two secret sauces of my email system are this though:

      (1) A series of well written rules to tweak what of a few folders email arrive in such as to tweak my level of attention to the arriving email:
      (a) if I'm only on the "cc" it goes into a "cc" folder
      (b) if it goes firmwide, it goes to a firmwide folder
      (c) if I'm on the "to" it stays in my inbox
      (d) if it's one of a series of automated emails, it is automatically sent to archive

      (2) http://lookeen.com/ --> the best outlook search tool I've ever used but it requires some understanding of how it works to most effectively use it
      (a) you can only search its index and it can't reliably update it index in realtime (I believe as a function of outlook's terrible internal I/O // pst/ost filesystem...)
      (b) the speed of lookeen and outlook by extension appear to be related to the degree of fragmentation of the underlying indices and datafiles so I configure lookeen to rebuild its index (2-3 gb of emails takes 10-15 minutes to index on an older computer) and also to selectively defragment both lookeen's database and outlook's files each night

      This approach yields lightning quick searches where I'm frequently telling people I work with when I sent them what email over the phone so they look it up the old fashioned way...

    2. Re:"Reference" folder by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Personally, that's how I've always done my email.

      The one single caveat: I subdivide the "Reference" (I call it "Archive") into folders numbered by year, purely to keep mailbox sizes under the 2/4 GB limit that makes (even some current) assorted mail programs, disk utilities and file systems choke.

      Honestly, you very rarely need to go back and find emails once they're banished to the archive, because they're complete. The years other than the previous year can be on a different (slower or remote) server (for example, my ultramobile has the previous year, but needs to hit the network for years before that).

      In fact, in most email clients other than Outlook, you could mount previous years read-only (like, from a CD-ROM, read-only server, or directly from a memory dump of a backup). In fact, if it's the message body rather than an attachment you need, you might even be able to get the information from the search index of that folder without even getting the email itself from the folder -- again, if the search is any good (if your client isn't Outlook).

    3. Re:"Reference" folder by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your forgetting the automated 'audit' type mails.

      I'd recommend the following:
      * Active (Inbox + Sent in conversation view) - Only stuff that needs to be worked/reacted on.
      * Reference - Stuff you can forget about to be search for if need be.
      * Automated - for the automated spam one usually gets, filters put the stuff here to keep the Active folder clear of noise.

      For some of the one off projects I have also tried to setup separate mail reference mail folders, but this seems to be of little benefit.

      Seems to be working for a 2 year old account with approximately 52,000 manual emails and about 250,000 automated ones (yes I get a little bit of mail ;).

    4. Re:"Reference" folder by seanvaandering · · Score: 1

      I do the same thing.... but also set AutoArchive and delete options after 30-90 days on the folder depending on importance. Like most people, everything in my inbox is something new, but I use folders because sometimes I need to hone in on a specific project or campaign, and I can't be bothered to wait on search. Besides, isn't there a 2GB limitation for Outlook? I think I hit that limitation once after 9 months of e-mail.... couldn't understand why suddenly, I couldn't delete or do anything with my e-mail and nothing but errors no matter what I tried. Advised by IT to delete some mail with attachments and everything went back to normal.

      I've used Lotus Notes and files things in folders there as well.

    5. Re:"Reference" folder by Bodero · · Score: 1
      Besides, isn't there a 2GB limitation for Outlook?

      Not that I know of, I am on Outlook 2010 hosted Exchange with Appriver, unlimited storage. My mailbox is around ~16GB.

    6. Re:"Reference" folder by Blakey+Rat · · Score: 1

      Besides, isn't there a 2GB limitation for Outlook?

      If you have one, tell your admins to UPGRADE, post-haste. The "default" limit in Outlook 2003 and up is 20 GB, but it can be set even higher.

    7. Re:"Reference" folder by jafac · · Score: 1

      I do this, mainly - but then I take my "reference" folder, and subdivide that into topical folders, which I periodically groom.

      My inbox, I move, on a weekly basis, to a series of archive subfolders, yyyy\mm\w

      (mail incoming to my inbox is further autofiltered, so that crap from automatic builds, out of office traffic, and other assorted notification-type messages, are "classified" into their own reference folders).

      I have been burned by the stupidity of search in the past. Search NEVER finds what I'm looking for, and takes too long.

      The only problem with my folders' organization is that stuff older than 1 month, that's not in my inbox, is ONLY available on mobile devices. All my stuff that's in folders, is archived - to my localfolders on my machine, so I have to remote into that machine to access it. This is almost never a problem for me in practical terms though.

      --

      These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
  30. MOD PARENT UP and use folders by Hyperhaplo · · Score: 1

    And please stop referring to Lotus Notes as 'enterprise ready' software. It should never be deployed to any organisation, regardless of size.

    To answer the question, if you use Lotus Notes.. you HAVE to have folders. The search is so horrible that if you don't.. then you won't find anything.

    Example: You are looking at 'all documents' folder in Lotus Notes, or the Inbox, and you see 5 emails with key words in them and you think "I'd like to see all emails with those key words". So, you open search and type the words in. Does it return the emails currently on the screen? Maybe. Does it return more emails? Maybe. Can it return different search returns on different days? Yes.

    Have pity on us who are forced to use Lotus Notes.

    Further... I have rules which automatically move emails into specific folders when they arrive in the inbox. It is probably the only useful automation Lotus Notes provides.

    To elaborate, the big huhar about Notes is that you can code agents and extensions yourself.. and make your email client / suite do.. anything! anything! at! all! so long as you can grasp Basic syntax, like bashing your head against the wall, can handle running the same agent twice and getting different results and have a zen like attitude towards resolving software bugs while wearing a blindfold.
    The problem is that many organisations prevent users from writing and using agents, or making use of any customisation features in Notes. This is partially because it makes it so easy to run rings around corporate stupidity and makes it easy to DDOS Notes servers accidentally. Yes, accidentally. *sigh*

    So, back to Notes we go. Don't complain about Outlook. When will Notes die?

    And yes, the latest Notes 8, rewritten in Java, is a great improvement.. but is just as annoying as the old Notes 7.

    --
    You have a sick, twisted mind. Please subscribe me to your newsletter.
    1. Re:MOD PARENT UP and use folders by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And please stop referring to Lotus Notes as 'enterprise ready' software. It should never be deployed to any organisation, regardless of size.

      To answer the question, if you use Lotus Notes.. you HAVE to have folders. The search is so horrible that if you don't.. then you won't find anything.

      I worked at IBM, and the day I discovered that Google desktop had a plugin that made it possible to search notes was the happiest moment in all my time there. It made me realize that terrible software was a boat ancor around my neck that I did not need, and I went to interview at google the next month.

    2. Re:MOD PARENT UP and use folders by aardvarkjoe · · Score: 0

      And the amusing thing is that this study was done by IBM, which inflicts Lotus Notes on their employees.

      --

      How can we continue to believe in a just universe and freedom to eat crackers if we have no ale?
    3. Re:MOD PARENT UP and use folders by aardvarkjoe · · Score: 1

      Funny thing, I somehow didn't notice that the post that I was replying to was a reply to a post that already said what I was saying. Go ahead and mod my stupidity down...

      --

      How can we continue to believe in a just universe and freedom to eat crackers if we have no ale?
    4. Re:MOD PARENT UP and use folders by Greyfox · · Score: 1
      The hell of it is, Profs (The mainfraime-based text-only E-Mail system they used before Lotus Notes) was a much more functional, intuitive and just plain *better* E-Mail client, and they threw that shit out. I guess they had to justify their $3 billion purchase of Lotus which, in the end, gave them NOTHING. Nothing but a shitty E-Mail client they inflict on their users to this very day. I bet it's cost them another $3 billion or so in lost productivity, having to use that piece of garbage.

      Funny Story, I signed on with them as a contractor back in the '90s, to man their OS/2 technical support line. Back in the day they used Profs for the Email and RETAIN for their technical support database. RETAIN is epically user-unfriendly but it's about as fast or faster than goddamn google search because they coded huge chunks of it in Assembly Language. Some guy wrote up a front end to it but I preferred raw RETAIN once I saw how powerful it was. Anyway, they buy Lotus and the high muckety-mucks hand down a mandate that everyone will use Lotus notes for everything and RETAIN will be replaced with a giant Lotus Notes database. Well long story short last time I was there in 2005 they're still doing active maintenance on RETAIN. Guess they never could figure out how to make Lotus Notes scale to the level they needed it to. Maybe its old Dbase file format just wasn't up to the task.

      And don't get me wrong, I love IBM. Their hardware kicks ass and they can do some amazing software when they want to. Some of the coolest reading I've found on the web is from IBMers. It's just too bad that the occasional bone-headed decision like the one to keep using Lotus Notes makes the company so hard to work for. Every time I have a contract end with them I have this overwhelming sense of relief that I don't have to use Lotus Notes anymore. About the only good thing I can say about it is I don't feel resentful when I move over to a MS Outlooking-using company. Next to Notes, Outlook looks pretty damn nice.

      --

      I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?

    5. Re:MOD PARENT UP and use folders by Rexdude · · Score: 1

      Further... I have rules which automatically move emails into specific folders when they arrive in the inbox

      And as of version 8.5.2 which I last used, you cannot retroactively apply a folder sorting rule on your inbox, something that Outlook Express, not to mention Outlook, has had for over a decade. So if you already have over a thousand mails in your inbox, they're gonna remain there unless you manually move them out.

      --
      "..One hosts to look them up, one DNS to find them, and in the darkness BIND them."
    6. Re:MOD PARENT UP and use folders by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      After being forced by my employer to switch from Notes after using it for 9 years (at IBM, then current employer) back to Outlook (prior to IBM job), despite all the issues I had with Notes, I find that I miss its functionality/interface/"style"/whatever in comparison. For me Outlook stinks and is more cumbersome and inadequate in too many ways, especially searching all emails. And to think that a few years ago, I never thought I would miss Notes...

      As for email organizing styles, it really is a matter of personalization that reflects individual thinking modes and organizing styles in conjunction with types of email the person deals with, and the email tools that they use. No one method can possibly suit all such styles and needs equally well.

    7. Re:MOD PARENT UP and use folders by snadrus · · Score: 1

      8.5's series has been out for 4 years. 8.5.3 (just released) is considerably faster than anything in the 8.0 series. Even 9.0 is in the works. Sure many things are still single-threaded, but 8.5 has LiveText (using Perl regex) which is far less likely to be disabled than agents since it's completely client-side.

      --
      Science & open-source build trust from peer review. Learn systems you can trust.
    8. Re:MOD PARENT UP and use folders by Blakey+Rat · · Score: 1

      For me Outlook stinks and is more cumbersome and inadequate in too many ways, especially searching all emails.

      What version of Outlook are you using? ... you just type your search string, and then click the "Search All Folders" link/button on the resulting list.

      Also if you're using a relatively up-to-date version of Windows (Vista or 7), you can just search from your Start menu which not only indexes Outlook emails, but Thunderbird emails.

      (Whether or not Vista/7 can search Lotus Notes emails-- I do not know. After suffering 3 years as tech support at a Notes-using company, I'll never take a job at a company that uses Lotus Notes. And yes, I ask at the interview.)

    9. Re:MOD PARENT UP and use folders by Hyperhaplo · · Score: 1

      I have over 50000 emails in my inbox.. the result of being in the same organisation for 10 years

      It's very interesting using search..

      Can't say I like Notes version 7 too much. 8 is an improvement... but not by much (I work for two organisations).

      --
      You have a sick, twisted mind. Please subscribe me to your newsletter.
    10. Re:MOD PARENT UP and use folders by Hyperhaplo · · Score: 1

      That is scary.

      I have never understood the IBM fascination with Notes.. and in particular Notes 'databases'.

      The good news is that we are changing to Outlook 'soon'. As much as I don't like Microsoft, at least Outlook is decent (compared to Notes).

      --
      You have a sick, twisted mind. Please subscribe me to your newsletter.
    11. Re:MOD PARENT UP and use folders by Hyperhaplo · · Score: 1

      Large organisations can take years to upgrade mission critical software.

      Take pity on us, it's only recently that we upgraded from Notes 6 to Notes 7.

      --
      You have a sick, twisted mind. Please subscribe me to your newsletter.
    12. Re:MOD PARENT UP and use folders by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But it's easy too have 6.0 through 8.5 all running and working together. There's no need to visit each version. Why upgrade to software a decade old?

  31. Yep by mojo-raisin · · Score: 1

    The only reason I keep some email in folders is so that I can delete bunches of them when I am done with a task.

    For example, once I am done with a project, and I never have to think about it again, the whole thing gets vaporized.

    It is quite satisfactory.

    1. Re:Yep by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I keep all project-related emails. A couple times - including recently - this has come in handy as the saved emails serve as a CYA file.

  32. Depends on your email program. by Phurge · · Score: 1

    Yes, if you use gmail because search actually works.

    No, if you use Outlook because their search is a dog.

    --
    I'll see your hokum and raise you a boondoggle.
    1. Re:Depends on your email program. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hitting the nail on the head there. Outlook email search simply doesn't work worth a damn. Every other email client is superior, but I like Thunderbird search best - instantaneous.

    2. Re:Depends on your email program. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't know what's wrong with your Outlook search, but mine works like a charm. It is just a tiny bit slower than Google's search, but in practice it makes no difference.

    3. Re:Depends on your email program. by 21mhz · · Score: 1

      In Outlook 2010 they have fixed it indeed. In the 2007 version, "instant" search was also available as an add-on, but I did not want to mess around my corporate IT policies and install it.

      --
      My exception safety is -fno-exceptions.
  33. summary disproves itself by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "Apparently the filers are using their inbox as a to-do list rather than wanting to categorize information to find it more easily."

    So where does the writing of to-do lists get measured in the study?

    And, how about those of us who both file, and use search in those situations where we know it'll be faster?

  34. GMail by gridengine · · Score: 0

    Old news.
    Google told us to use search for emails since day 1 of GMail.

  35. What about real-world application? by dust11 · · Score: 0

    I work for an IT consulting firm. Within the last week I've received over 2000 emails; this is normal. A lot of these messages will be service ticket notifications, which are very useful to keep and access via Exchange for Android when I'm at a client. The rest of these will be important notifications about server health and other important monitoring information. With 52 weeks per year, that's over 100,000 emails in my inbox, which is a phenomenal amount to index. Sorting my email into folders helps to keep my inbox manageable. I'll point out that I don't use my inbox as a to-do list either.

    In any case, modern versions of Outlook can easily search in all folders at once, and have the ability to sort email automatically based on patterns. Logically we can assume that a smaller inbox is faster to search through for more relevant information, hence in a real-world test the filers would be more efficient. Being able to see the my recent important messages also helps to keep me focused should I be doing 40 jobs at a time.

    This may not apply to everyone, but those who have enough email that they actually need to sort it will probably have a similar experience. Searching may help to free up a few extra seconds here and there, but a clutter will always create a bottleneck. Quickly glancing at my screen once every 30 minutes to see if I have anything new and noteworthy is far more efficient than compulsively checking every 5 minutes and marking all of those misc notifications as read.

  36. Google Beats Yahoo by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 0

    Searching is Google. Folders is Yahoo. Google is the biggest Internet success, now that the Internet is vast and complex. Yahoo can't find a buyer, 15 years after it launched the Internet Bubble with its IPO.

    If your email is as full as the 1995 Internet, you might like folders better. If your email is as full as the 2011 Internet, you'll like searching.

    --

    --
    make install -not war

  37. Depends on how work related the emails are by jader3rd · · Score: 1

    Any email that has to deal with my job go to my inbox. Emails from internal DL's that aren't related to the position I'm hired to, go to folders. But if it's an email that's related to my position, my team, etc. all go to my inbox. Any status emails that happen more than once a day go to their own folder as well. I have search folders setup to quickly find items that I do search for. I find this solution to be the best in keeping me in touch with the things I work on. Hundred's of emails a day and it's not overwhelming.

  38. That really depends on your client. by Sarusa · · Score: 1

    With Gmail, I just throw all old email into an 'old' folder and use search since gmail's search is great.

    With Thunderbird I separate into separate folders since T-bird's search is... okay. It works like you'd expect. Quick look in the folder, then search all.

    With Outlook (at work) I separate things by folders since Outlook's search is abysmally bad. Advanced search never works properly.

    1. Re:That really depends on your client. by rwa2 · · Score: 1

      My work put Google search on our Outlook client, maybe you could talk yours into it...

      Now if only OWA didn't feel so 1999...

    2. Re:That really depends on your client. by Orffen · · Score: 1

      You could just Archive mail too. You won't be able to look for it via the Old label but search will work as normal.

      And yes, Outlook's search is horrendous.

  39. Google Beats Yahoo by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 1

    In other news, Google is taking over the world with searching, while Yahoo's original hierarchical directory is so tired it can't find a buyer, 15 years after its IPO launched the Internet Bubble.

    What I need is an AI thesaurus map that can organize my emails into categories to show me topics I've discussed within some category selected by timeframe, correspondents, or keywords.

    --

    --
    make install -not war

  40. Actually, I do both... by bratwiz · · Score: 1

    Actually, I do both. I file stuff that I want to separate in folders according to a broad category system, but then I just use the 'search' functions to find anything. I don't bother hunting through the folders. That *would* be a waste of time.

  41. Folders Are for Hiding Emails by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 1

    The best use of folders is to direct some emails into their own lists before reading them. So they don't clutter up the main Inbox. Automated alerts each in their own folder as they come in are easier to deal with. Especially if I want to delete a whole series of them, and especially if there's a lot of them which would overwhelm the rest of my inbox. Or just a few, which would get lost in my inbox.

    These folders are better implemented as views, rather than actually separate storage. In fact my entire email data store would be best implemented as a database app. Indexing my messages, relating them by correspondents, subjects and keywords, would make them much more productive as a knowledge base. And easier to compose into finished documentation, and find trends and stats, and manage tasks...

    --

    --
    make install -not war

    1. Re:Folders Are for Hiding Emails by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So they don't clutter up the main Inbox.

      Why can't your inbox get messy? I think the article is about email organisation not OCD.

    2. Re:Folders Are for Hiding Emails by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because your smartphone will automatically get pinged by all the company spam unless you have a server-side rule that stuffs it into a "BS" folder and marks it as read before you ever see it.

    3. Re:Folders Are for Hiding Emails by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 1

      Because I look in my inbox with my unassisted eyeballs for incoming messages that deserve my attention.

      When someone produces a better GUI for new messages and their discussion than an email inbox, I'll be very interested. Meanwhile, I want to use the simple list I've got.

      --

      --
      make install -not war

  42. Must use folders by bdenton42 · · Score: 2

    Where I work has absurdly low quotas on the Exchange server, I believe 100 MB. The only thing I keep in my Inbox is the "to-do" kind of stuff, everything else goes into a folder in a pst file on my local drive. It sucks because I end up having to search two places a lot of time because you cannot search both an Exchange and local pst with one search.

    1. Re:Must use folders by jader3rd · · Score: 1

      Get 'em on Exchange 2010. It's dirt cheap to run a Dag and give everyone 8+ GB mailboxes.

    2. Re:Must use folders by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You can search both with one search. At least from Outlook 2007 onward.

    3. Re:Must use folders by jimicus · · Score: 1

      With the added bonus that your employer almost certainly doesn't back up your local hard drive. So if your PC dies horribly, your email goes with it.

    4. Re:Must use folders by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Windows desktop search works on both too. th

    5. Re:Must use folders by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I generally created the .pst file on a shared, but private drive, so that mail was automatically synchronized before I logged out. That way, even if my laptop went bad, I'd not have to worry about losing all my mail. In fact, all my data was on public corporate drives, usually on Sharepoint.

    6. Re:Must use folders by rwa2 · · Score: 1

      Maybe this also has something to do with email retention policies, so someone who is suing your company can subpoena email evidence from three years back on their servers or something.

      I mean, sure it's botched, in that the users might make their own backups of mail going waaaay back. But botched is kinda the name of the game.

    7. Re:Must use folders by ITShaman · · Score: 1

      LUXURY!!! Where I used to work (another Very Large International Conglomerate), we had a 5 MB limit, yeah, 5 MB, and that was in 2009-2010. And I had to WALK up the stairs to the 3rd floor. And it was 30 below with the AC blasting over my desk...

      --
      I can no longer read Dilbert. It's too depressing, because it is too real. -- Hyperhaplo
  43. Here's how I do it by kagaku · · Score: 1

    First, I'll throw out the environment I'm using. Windows 7 Enterprise, Outlook 2010. I've been using Outlook for over two years after we upgraded from Lotus Notes (anything is an upgrade from Lotus Notes) and have not deleted more than a handful of emails since the upgrade. I receive on average about 150 emails a day. I keep the current month's email in my inbox and archive every prior month into a folder - by month.

    This doesn't exactly organize my email - I just end up with 12 folders a year full of around 2000-2500 emails in each depending on the month. How do I make sense of it all? Search. Outlook is set to index all mail in my archives (currently around 9gb total), and I can sometimes narrow down by timeframe based on my folders. So far this scenario works great for me, I'll give an example of how.

    Client ABC Inc calls customer service to complain that their file specifications are incorrect - they're missing a "B" record and cannot process the file! We need to fix this immediately because their CEO plays golf with our CEO or something. I was assigned the project that built their "file" and looked through our project folder. At some point on a client call two years ago the customer told us to remove the B record during testing. The test file we sent them never included this record, and when the project went live it of course did not include the B record.

    Between the archived test files in our project tracking system and the emails I recovered from 2009 regarding the project we were able to convince the client that they were nuts - they never received a B record because they told us two years ago they did not want one. We then suggested they could add a new B record, but of course - that would cost them. =)

    --
    everyday is another shooter.
  44. Folders are better, because they also limit size by FridayBob · · Score: 1

    If I were to just keep all of my messages (both sent and received) in the same folder/file/directory (or folders/files/directories) forever, many of them would eventually become too large and inconvenient to work with. So, I wrote a script to file all my old ones away once a year on January the 1st into a directory for the previous year and replace them with new empty ones. Also, this does not stop me from searching (e.g. using grep) through my entire archive to find what I want.

  45. Not the whole picture. by jklovanc · · Score: 1

    The study focused on aspect of folders; searching. Here are a number of other reasons to use folders.

    1. Categorizing: I have several different folders for activities that do not need immediate attention; SCA, chainmaille, clubs, etc. When I have time I will read those emails.
    2. Priority: There are some emails that I want to respond to immediately. The best way to highlight these is to sort them into a folder.
    3. Separate Projects; When I am working on several projects at a time it is great to be able to look at only the emails related to that project. It also highlights when I get replies about a specific project. It also helps with task switching. When I can look at emails that deal only with the project I am working on at that specific time I am less distracted by other emails.
    4. Archive/deletion: I have several folders where I will read the emails and then occasionally clear the folder. It is much faster than deleting each individual email. I can also export all the emails from a project and save them in case I need them later.

    So no, searching is not the only reason to use folders.

    1. Re:Not the whole picture. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Agree. There are many reasons to use folders.

      Organizing folders within folders can greatly help focus thought. The use of language and other organization methods affects not just the words we use, but also how we think and organize things, especially abstract things, in our heads. Not everyone who uses email thinks about their communications in an organized way (for some email is merely FIFO, or organized chronologically), but for those who do organize their communications, having an organization method that can be mapped from computer to brain (and not just a way to get things out of their inbox) improves their ability to handle large amounts of information and fully utilize a computer to help them in this task.

      Another benefit to foldering is being able to searching within a subset (e.g. for this client, on this project). Searching within a couple thousand emails is easy. Searching within a hundred thousand emails (a year or two of received emails for many of us) for words that are common to many threads is just not useful. Imagine searching for the phrase "security issue" within a project folder with 3,000 messages vs. doing the same search within an "already read" folder consisting of tens or hundreds of thousands of emails on a wide variety of topics. While advanced searches do have the ability to use multiple criteria, trusting Outlook for advanced search capabilities is not something that most of us are comfortable doing.

      Many people seem to see this as a black-and-white question. As we are not computers, we can see shades of gray. Most mail is stuff that isn't ever going to be needed later, and it can go into an "already read" folder. This greatly reduces the amount of time spent foldering, and also increases the efficacy of searches. This can easily be done from a smart phone, even Android and iOS devices can do this relatively quickly.

      Finally, I suspect that the IBM study quoted above has a systemic flaw. Over time, people forget things. Unless this study took place over a long period (say 5 years), and asked people to search for things that were far from concrete in their memories, it is likely that the searches were easy (things that had unique words that the person could remember), and it was more a matter of doing the search, than figuring out what to search for. When you know what you are looking for, computer searches are great, but sometimes you don't, or what you are looking for isn't particularly unique. In these cases, having an organization method can greatly improve your chances of coming up with the right terms to search with.

  46. multiple mail groups by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    In my work place I'm a member of about 300 different mail groups. I have filters set up to dump mail into specific folders. I have a bunch of folders I just plain ignore.

  47. sorters = third type by Twillerror · · Score: 1

    I don't do either. I use sorting. Often I can remember a crucial piece of information... the sender.

    It still kills me that gmail doesn't have the way to say show me all email from user X in the order they where sent. I read my gmail alongside my work email in outlook.

    I often find emails where others fail with this simple strategy. Searching requires you to know the word(s) that are in the email or subject. It is usually something completely different than what your brain remembers. Searching works well on the web because the web pages have tons of content that might match what your trying to hit...or many sources of the same information. Email is more precise....searching for Geese won't return Goose.

    Combine this with search you might get a general date that the "subject" was being discussed in your company. Then sort by date and start scrolling. If you delete stupid emails or catalog them away you get even better.

    At the end of the day email is a horrible way to store data. Use a wiki or something. If you are searching your email it is usually an indication that the information is not stored somewhere better.

    1. Re:sorters = third type by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It still kills me that gmail doesn't have the way to say show me all email from user X in the order they where sent.

      use the search with operators
      from:sender
      https://mail.google.com/support/bin/answer.py?answer=7190

    2. Re:sorters = third type by Jamori · · Score: 1
      Sure it does.

      In the search box, type, "from:SendersNameOrEmailAddress"

      The results are still threaded, but unless you have multiple overlapping email threads with a single contact, this shouldn't be a problem.

  48. What sort of email system did they use? by rnturn · · Score: 1

    Because if it was Lotus Notes -- IBM's fave -- I can understand why the folks that kept everything in their Inbox were able to find stuff faster. Lotus Notes' search function sucks like a tornado then you ask it to so anything even mildly complex. (And to me searching through a tree of folders shouldn't actually be complex.)

    --
    CUR ALLOC 20195.....5804M
  49. How about doing both? by dubsnipe · · Score: 1

    It's not rocket science. If one method doesn't work, you try the other.

  50. Folders Trumped Inbox in IBM 2005 Best Practices by theodp · · Score: 1

    From IBM's Oct. 2005 Best practices for large Lotus Notes mail files: "...you should advise your users to file documents from their Inbox to other folders, to keep it as small as possible..."

  51. Automatically filed under bullshit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    1000s of cron jobs, code delivers, build and test results all belong in your Inbox? Bullshit.

  52. If they aren't filing, then they are wasting time. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I have specific work related folders set so that the filters I've created sort my mail for me. This is includes critical mail from my bosses and critical mail generated by the servers I support. These help me become more proactive than reactive. You don't want to get a call from your boss asking what's wrong with server A, and this is the first you've heard of it.

  53. which client? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    gmail search actually works so i dont use folders. lotus notes is a giant piece of monkey balls so i have to use folders because the search is crappier then said monkey balls.

  54. WTF is Bluemail??? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Bluemail is the email client used for this study. It is a web based
    client that includes both traditional email
    management features such as folders, and modern attributes
    such as efficient search, tagging, and threads. This
    combination of features allowed us to directly compare the
    benefits of preparatory retrieval behaviors that rely on
    folders/tags, with opportunistic search and threading. We
    could not have made this direct comparison if we had used
    a client such as Gmail that does not directly support folders
    separately from tags. Also, Bluemail could be used to
    access existing Lotus Notes emails, making the transition to
    Bluemail very straightforward. For a full description of the
    design see [17].

    So....rather than using traditional email clients already in use...the "study" made them use something that was unfamiliar to them or anyone else. Oh wait, its an IBM study...and an IBM email client....and IBM fluff piece. Nothing to see here, move along...

  55. It is for OTHER people by pablo_max · · Score: 1

    I do not sort emails because I like to do it, though like another poster mentioned, most is done with rules in outlook. I do it because I work on normally between 20-30 projects at a time. Other people are also involved in my project and need to see the history. How shall they know what is what, when there are 6000 emails in one network folder.
    Plus, dont you need to know what you are searching for? Sometimes you just need to read an email trail before you know what to search for.

  56. Did they check if it WORKS? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    In Outlook, you can't search more than one folder at a time. I wonder if that was taken into account, be it as a CON for searchers or simply a requirement that had to be met in order for the search to turn out 'faster' as a PRO for searchers.

  57. Left undone by lemmis_86 · · Score: 1

    The study should check which of the two users have left more things undone. By filing into folders you get a to-do list, and you can clearly see what you need to do. By having all mails in one folder things can get messy, and important mails can be forgotten and thus, never gets that important reply.

  58. Get off my lawn? by peppepz · · Score: 3, Funny
    So, folders are a waste of time. The ribbon user interface is cool. Walled gardens are OK.

    I must be getting very old.

  59. Not "wasted time"..... by David_Hart · · Score: 1

    The study does posit that most people sort as part of task management, rather than to increase search efficiency. When I receive a new message I review it. If it doesn't require action on my part, then I file it in the appropriate folder (ie projects, etc.). If it does require action, then it stays in my inbox until the task is completed, then it gets filed.

    If I just left everything in my inbox, then I would be a less efficient worker as I would never be able to keep all of my pending tasks straight. So, while filing email into folders may not increase search efficiency, it does improve my overall productivity, which is more important to both the company and my career.

  60. context matters, Home or work by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Context fail,

    I can see this being valid for a work environment, but at home, when i am thinking in terms of electronic design, the ecosystem design stuff is just in the way, and vis versa.
    Where as, filtering it into folders gets some of the irrelevant stuff out the way, without me expending effort on it

  61. Just search? What about workflow? by mpol · · Score: 1

    I'm not really interested in search, and how fast it is. I hardly use it.
    I have a simple workflow. I use my inbox (or actually several inboxes) as a todo-list. Everything that's in there has an item I have to look at.
    When I'm done with the mail, I delete it or pu it in a folder. That way my inbox is clear to look at, and I hardly ever forget to do something, or forget to reply to an email.
    When I want to search for something (which hardly ever happens) I mostly know what I'm looking for, and can browse through the folder myself.

    So for me it's not about wasted time in sorting, and hardly any time won in searching. It's about workflow.

    --

    Well, don't worry about that. We can get you back before you leave. (Dr. Who)
  62. Different folders for different tasks by Dails · · Score: 1

    At any given time I have about 20 different tasks of varying timelines that need to get done. Lots of emails regarding those separate things, all relevant, will come in. I have a folder titled FORAC (for action, we love our acronyms in the military) and subfolders for specific tasks, each containing all the relevant emails. When I need something, I just hit up that folder. When the task is done, I move that subfolder to FORAC Complete so I can still reference it, but it's not in my FORAC folder. This tremendously helps me keep track of rapidly changing requirements and updates.

  63. They got it exactly backwards by melted · · Score: 1

    Most people don't file mail into folders to make it easier to find. They do this to NOT READ the email that they know doesn't matter (which in a typical corporate environment is close to 90%). In Outlook, users can even set archival and deletion periods for such mail and get rid of it automatically. That's what I used to do when I had Outlook.

  64. And the cow orkers? by Eunuchswear · · Score: 1

    How will my cow orkers read the 50 000 messages I have filed by client if I leave them in my inbox?

    --
    Watch this Heartland Institute video
  65. What was the failure rate for each method? by BenJCarter · · Score: 1

    Which was higher, speed or accuracy? I'd rather add a few seconds to be sure an email really doesn't exist.

    --
    For in politics, as in religion, it is equally absurd to aim at making proselytes by fire and sword. - Publius
  66. Wait... by fahrbot-bot · · Score: 1

    ...you can keep emails? Seriously. I deal and delete. If it's *really* important or interesting, I might save as a file in a file-system folder. At work, I certainly don't trust keeping things in Outlook.

    --
    It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
  67. Don't always know what to search! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Search works great when you know exactly what you are looking for. Unfortunately there have been more than a few times when I had to go browsing for emails related to a feature that I didn't know the exact name of. There have also been times where I would have to use search terms that would cast far too broad a net. I don't see myself ever going away from a folder hierarchy.

  68. Re:Nope by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No, that's not the only reason. Putting emails in folder, using rules that move them to those folders automatically based on content or context, is also useful for prioritizing (or deciding) what to read. Of the 600 emails I receive each day, only about 200 stay in my inbox, the rest goes to folders. Lots of those folders contain stuff I might need under certain circumstances, but that I don't need to read immediately.
    It saves me a HUGE amount of time to have two thirds of my email sent directly to folders that take them out of my priority list. It saves more time even than search.

  69. Don't necessarily sort for others by holophrastic · · Score: 2

    I share an e-mail account with colleagues. The sorting isn't just for convenience, there's information stored in the organizational structure itself.

    As a single user, having read every e-mail, you search only for that which you've already seen. That's quick, no doubt. But imagine searching for something that may not be there.

    How long would it take you to search through someone else's e-mail to answer a simple question? For example, find all of the e-mails discussing a particular project.

    Sure you could search. You could serach for the name of the project, the members of the project, the dates of the project. But unless you read each and every single e-mail, you'll never know for sure that you've nto missed one e-mail discussing some minor aspect of the project.

    But, since each and every e-mail is, necessarily, read -- by the recipient -- it can easily be thrown into the given project's folder. Makes it really easy for someone else to catch-up on the project at any given time. Also easy for me to tell you where to find information on the project.

    That whole concept goes for backups as well. It's easy to drag a folder and have a backup of an important, and maybe completed project. Very difficult to do it with searches -- probably impossible.

    There is information present in structure itself, which is not contained within the data itself, and yet is not meta information of either. The more you can encode into that structure, the more that structure will work for you directly. It adds all sorts of new capabilities, which would otherwise be incredibly arduous to obtain.

  70. What about... by matunos · · Score: 1

    Those of us who want to *read* our email when it comes in, not just search for it later?

  71. Search only works if you know what to search for. by hellop2 · · Score: 0

    For example, say various chicks are constantly emailing you. So you create a "chicks" folder. Then on Friday night you want to get laid. Are you going to remember the chick's name that sent you BIE (boobies in email) two weeks ago? Of course not. That's why you separate emails into folders.

    The premise of TFA is completely implausible.

    --
    How many more years will slashdot have an off-by-one error on your Score in your profile?
  72. Sysadmins _hate_ people who don't file their mail by vilain · · Score: 1

    The inbox file just keeps getting bigger and bigger and bigger. Or on more modern email systems, that directory just keeps growing. Either way, users with huge unread mailboxes in /var/mail give me gas. And if they delete one, you have to restore to the last backup which was last night and they loose everything else. Not a good situation. File your friggen emails. They go into your network storage which is backed up regularly (hopefully).

  73. Nonsense... by blahplusplus · · Score: 3, Insightful

    ... putting emails in folders means you restrict the search to just emails in those folders, if you get a lot of email folders definitely make sense. Especially if you are on a mailing list.

  74. Threading by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "The ability to run custom searches are common among all email clients, but search king Google has expanded the practice with two concepts; labels and conversation threads." ... "Microsoft Outlook, Apple Mail and other programs have since adopted conversation threading for email."

    *sigh*

    Dunno about you guys, but I've used threading messaging systems since the early 90s. Heck, the emails have the References header precisely for that purpose. I blame Outlook for the Dark Age of the 2000s.

    (And Apple Mail's threading sucks. It just looks at the subject, so if it's a more common subject like "Lunch tomorrow?", you get all kinds of people in it.)

  75. Bus proof by Builder · · Score: 2

    I don't just file for myself, I file in case I get hit by a bus.

    To expect my work colleagues to work out what search terms to use is unreasonable. But if everything is filed by topic and by date, they'll be easily able to jump in and find relevant info and come up to speed quickly.

    1. Re:Bus proof by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      if you got hit by a bus, why would you care? don't waste your time, man.

    2. Re:Bus proof by Builder · · Score: 1

      It's part of being a professional I guess. My company trust me with a certain amount of work and I believe that should get that work, even if I'm not in a position to give it to them at the time.

      A less extreme example - I always try and do very solid handovers before I take a vacation. But what if something comes up that they need to get more detail on? If they know where and how I file stuff, they don't end up disappointing themselves by trying to call me.

    3. Re:Bus proof by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't just file for myself, I file in case I get hit by a bus.

      To expect my work colleagues to work out what search terms to use is unreasonable. But if everything is filed by topic and by date, they'll be easily able to jump in and find relevant info and come up to speed quickly.

      I don't know about you, if I'm hit by a bus, I could care less if my colleagues can find the emails in a timely fashion

    4. Re:Bus proof by Dynedain · · Score: 1

      If you think coworkers are going to waste their time digging through your email after your death, you're sadly mistaken.

      Either A) They'll hire someone to replace you who will start doing things their own way and not want to be beholden to your system.
      or B) They'll shut your projects down.

      --
      I'm out of my mind right now, but feel free to leave a message.....
    5. Re:Bus proof by Builder · · Score: 1

      Actually, I've been through similar things with losing people in the past, and the contents of their mail folder was invaluable.

      When you're dealing with overworked groups with lots of project and day-to-day work in a large organisation, there is often a need to at the very least find out everything that a person was working on and who they were talking to. Just the sent items can be a boon to this!

    6. Re:Bus proof by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Pity you can't afford email boxes for each of your colleagues.Then you could just, you know, copy everyone involved and you could each sort according to your own wants.

  76. I'm wondering ... by garry_g · · Score: 1

    Are those all Lotus Notes users? If so, the result doesn't come as much of a surprise ... ;) Notes must be one of the worst email clients on this earth ...

  77. Different use cases. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Folders and search are for different use cases.

    I tend to use folders for emails that I need to keep but know I'm unlikely to need to refer to any time soon. It gets them out of the way, and in fact makes searching on my main inbox folder easier, because it removes the unwanted archive stuff from the search results.

    The trick with folders is not to over-think your folder structure. I know people who meticulously arrange everything into folders based on the sender. That does indeed make searching harder. But a sensible use of folders can definitely make things easier.

    1. Re:Different use cases. by jbengt · · Score: 1

      Folders and search are for different use cases.

      Exactly. I need to create a separate folder for each job because they will need to be archived with that job, not in some arbitrary -email archive with hundreds of jobs and thousands of e-mails jumbled together. If I can't find something easily, I search the inbox or the job folder.

  78. Don't be a Pavlov's dog to your email by 21mhz · · Score: 1

    I work at a large software company too, but I decided that my work life is not so miserable yet that I need to check my smartphone every time an email comes into my inbox. So I don't sync my mail to the phone. Mail is done at comfortable times, normally on my desktop (or in meetings — perfect opportunities for keeping up!), or at least with a big screen and a big keyboard. If they want me urgently, my phone number is in the directory.

    --
    My exception safety is -fno-exceptions.
    1. Re:Don't be a Pavlov's dog to your email by rwa2 · · Score: 1

      Yep, first thing you do with one of those phones is disable email notifications.

      Then just check email at your own leisure every once in a while. You know you're a junkie when you start self-checking so often that you don't have any new email. Then you know it's time to chill the fuck out.

    2. Re:Don't be a Pavlov's dog to your email by snowgirl · · Score: 1

      I work at a large software company too, but I decided that my work life is not so miserable yet that I need to check my smartphone every time an email comes into my inbox.

      Awesome for you... but I was part of a build team. When we were the builder on duty, we had to work pretty much 24-hours a day to ensure that our build was still running, and hadn't hit any snags. I remember waking up 2 or 3 times a night to check that the build was still running smoothly, usually just to find out that something was broken, and needed a half hour of work to fix.

      And before someone suggests that there would have been a better way to handle things, no. It was a 14 hour build time, and that was on top-of-the-line hardware, and after I had cut out a ton of unnecessary dependencies in the build process, so that it would actually be busy more often, and thus take less time over all.

      Sometimes it is your job to be a "Pavlovian dog" to your email.

      --
      WARNING! This girl exceeds the MAXIMUM SAFE standards established by the FDA for BRATTINESS
    3. Re:Don't be a Pavlov's dog to your email by 21mhz · · Score: 1

      And before someone suggests that there would have been a better way to handle things, no. It was a 14 hour build time

      Either you used bad tools, or your project was improperly designed, or both. Let me guess: C++ with everything templated to Nth degree? Rebuild-the-world project with not much modularization or intelligence in the build system?

      --
      My exception safety is -fno-exceptions.
    4. Re:Don't be a Pavlov's dog to your email by snowgirl · · Score: 1

      And before someone suggests that there would have been a better way to handle things, no. It was a 14 hour build time

      Either you used bad tools, or your project was improperly designed, or both. Let me guess: C++ with everything templated to Nth degree? Rebuild-the-world project with not much modularization or intelligence in the build system?

      No, it wasn't anything like that. Although we did have to build everything from scratch every time because we didn't have any sort of dependency information in order to be able to perform incremental builds, the project was simply just that massive. I'll add that this 14 hour build process was split over about 10 machines, and you'll start getting an idea of scale.

      --
      WARNING! This girl exceeds the MAXIMUM SAFE standards established by the FDA for BRATTINESS
    5. Re:Don't be a Pavlov's dog to your email by 21mhz · · Score: 1

      For that kind of scale, I think turning it into a package system and using something like OBS could help. And, of course, proper architecture management could help not to recompile the world every time you change something that's supposed to be an internal detail of some subsystem.

      --
      My exception safety is -fno-exceptions.
    6. Re:Don't be a Pavlov's dog to your email by snowgirl · · Score: 1

      For that kind of scale, I think turning it into a package system and using something like OBS could help. And, of course, proper architecture management could help not to recompile the world every time you change something that's supposed to be an internal detail of some subsystem.

      Couldn't have used OBS, the company was deathly afraid of using GPL software that was not pre-approved, and the legal team was highly unlikely to approve any new GPL programs. (Even getting some Perl modules was like pulling teeth.) Standing orders were "you can't even look at GPL code," out of fear that a developer might "taint" themselves. Also, seems like OBS does not support the version control that the company was using. Not to mention the amount of time necessary to rewrite everything to support a different build system would make it near impossible... or at least Herculean, and there was not a chance in hell that the company was going to pay for a complete rewrite.

      The build process did split into various architectures, and then different locales, and each was processed by a distributed build farm, so that much was covered. Beyond that, it was already working as fine-grained as it really could.

      As for "internal detail of some subsystem", the original design of the software (some 10 years ago) has crufted up the process so that without a total rewrite of the build process, even the newer versions were destined to be treated as a nearly monolithic block of code. (There were subsystems, but they exported symbols that then other internal processes of other subsystems could utilize directly, thus the unknown quality of dependencies.)

      Trust me, if there were a better way to do it, we would have done it, but then there was massive amounts of inertia in the project, and since we were only support of the older versions, we had to deal with all the hacks and workarounds thrown into the build process to ship the project, and there wasn't a chance in heck that we would be able to justify spending all our time reworking the entire build process. (I rewrote big parts of it, or rather reorganized it, and even that was like pulling teeth to get worked through.)

      --
      WARNING! This girl exceeds the MAXIMUM SAFE standards established by the FDA for BRATTINESS
  79. They think people are monkeys by TheRealGrogan · · Score: 1

    Everyone has their workflow... leave them the fuck alone and let them do their work. They will be less productive if you try to force your way upon them.

  80. I need several postboxes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I don't have the habit of deleting mail. At work, I discovered that the file size of a .pst file in Outlook cannot exceed 2GB, or else, Outlook freezes.

    I therefore have the habit of creating separate postboxes for different aspects of my work. If it's dealing with, say, the NOR flash product line, I have a postbox called NOR flash, and within it, different folders. Same goes for other job functions I have to deal with, such as Inventory Management, Sales Bulletins, Forecasts and so on.

    As a result of this approach, I never had this problem again. I miss folders in GMail.

  81. Don't sort, use Mairix! by gentryx · · Score: 0

    It's really like the web: catalogs like Yahoo couldn't keep up with search engines, so why should you categorize your mails when there are search engines for them? Works well with mutt!

    --
    Computer simulation made easy -- LibGeoDecomp
  82. depends on the mail program by ardiri · · Score: 1

    i am the type that leaves everything in the Inbox and search for what i need - but when i was issued a company laptop with Office 2007 installed; Outlook just sucked at searching the Inbox. upgrading to a Mac OSX laptop with Office 2011, everything just got a lot better - meaning searching the "Inbox" is now feasible again :) i think it really depends on the mail client that is used (or, forced onto you - in a corporate environment).. i've always found searching the Inbox in gmail to be very efficient. in some cases tho; breaking your "massive" inbox into smaller project inboxes, categorizing them at least one level makes sense - you just need to remember your logical separation before diving into a search; worst case, you can search recursively as well.

  83. Right of RECALL by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    In addition to postboxes and folders, I too use rules, but I believe there is only a certain #rules Outlook lets you create. It helps me not necessarily take off my priority list, but rather deal with them together. But my favorite thing about Outlook is the ability to recall messages that I later discovered either had a major error, or was sent to the wrong recipient - something that other mail services don't have. I'd be interested to know whether any mail service other than Exchange has it.

  84. 43folders.com by hart · · Score: 1

    Merlin Mann's been saying this for years. Nice to see the concept getting te attention it deserves :-)

  85. My work e-mail organization scheme... by bhtooefr · · Score: 1

    It's based on a pretty rigid folder sorting scheme, with a folder called "Reference".

    Reference is a folder that contains e-mails that I need to refer to often, and quickly - I usually have less than 20 e-mails in there, so search is completely pointless.

    However, my structure is such that it makes focusing searches easier, or I can search everything just like the all-in-the-inbox types do.

    Another benefit of my structure... I can set specific folders (like Reference) to not AutoArchive (I use Outlook), so that I don't have to go looking in PSTs for certain e-mails.

  86. Filing can be automated by Hentes · · Score: 1

    In most email clients you can redirect emails from certain addresses to a folder. And it's quicker to just click on that folder instead of having to type in the address in the search bar.

  87. Filers are wasting time?! by tenco · · Score: 1

    I use procmail. Virtually no time wasted. This won't give me a gazillion mails in my inbox that one or the other MUA can't handle.

  88. The underlying problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    - Searching is nothing else than showing mails by a temporary tag.
    - Putting mails in a special folder is nothing else then tagging the mails with the folder name for later view.
    => So there must be some overhead to folders, as you do something in advance. And there must be a solution to eventually make use of that.

    cb

  89. The 354 must not order from newegg by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Imagine using search to try to find parts you ordered from newegg! Their e-mails use some kind of code for parts. Good luck searching those.

  90. Complexity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The problem with folders is the usual problem afflicting all database structures. I'm an account manager and I have 140 clients plus industry contacts plus internal departments involved in this and that.

    If I have an email from Client A which has input from 3 internal departments and 2 external suppliers, and is also relevant to Client B, where do I file this?

    Besides, Outlook won't even let me create 140 folders.

    My solution: Inbox, 2011 folder, 2011-sent-mail folder, 2010 folder... etc etc

    1. Re:Complexity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm an account manager and I have 140 clients plus industry contacts plus internal departments involved in this and that. If I have an email from Client A which has input from 3 internal departments and 2 external suppliers, and is also relevant to Client B, where do I file this?

      You would file them in a real CRM system, such as salesforce.com

      Email is not intended for archiving, and your business process is very broken if you do not understand this.

  91. IBM sells Lotus Notes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Which is a disaster, but a disaster that sells to corporations...

  92. Many distinct email sources by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I have many places email comes from, so I automatically route it to individual folders. Management communication, vendors, salesmen, and newsletters are the biggest ones. There's no way I'd get confused what folder to look in, and it cuts down search times just by being more specific.

  93. Order is for Idiots, Geniuses Master Chaos by foobsr · · Score: 1
    Knew that almost since birth!

    CC.

    --
    TaijiQuan (Huang, 5 loosenings)
  94. inbox restricted in exchange by therealhairymike · · Score: 1

    My exchange inbox has size restrictions. Archive folders on the SAN don't..

  95. I call BS by nurb432 · · Score: 1

    At least in my situation, it would NOT be easier to search for things if it was all in one big blob.

    --
    ---- Booth was a patriot ----
  96. Not why many people use folders by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    A lot of people don't use folders for finding things, but rather because their e-mail server or .pst files have limits in size. I often have to help people create additional folders just because Outlook or Exchange hit the ceiling for folder size and we had to divide their e-mails into separate folders. Plus, as others have pointed out, searching one folder is faster than searching every folder. The study suggests to me that people just aren't fluent in using their e-mail applications.

    1. Re:Not why many people use folders by xenocide2 · · Score: 1

      "The study suggests to me that people just aren't fluent in using their e-mail applications."

      Did you actually read the study? Everyone was using the same email client, and had been doing so for quite a while, and the sample only included people who'd used all retrieval features at least once.

      Of course, we don't know whether bluemail is better at one kind of use vs the other. Except for this study...

      --
      I Browse at +4 Flamebait

      Open Source Sysadmin

  97. Opera by ledow · · Score: 1

    I don't use folders - what a pointless waste of time except to archive out so your inbox is empty once a year. I tag (actually, it's "label" in Opera but the same thing).

    Opera is my main web and email client and all my email comes into my F4-left pane and gets tagged appropriately. You can have it learn from tagged emails, or provide strict rules. When you only want to see, e.g. emails from your online backup provider, you just click the relevant tag. You can also choose to have those show up in a general "unread mail" folder or not - whether or not they are read (i.e. you don't necessarily want to "read" every automated email and don't want to have to "read" them all to stop them hiding an important unread email).

    If you only want to see incoming faxes from your fax-to-email system, you just click the relevant tag (I set it up by subject line but it takes seconds to create a tag for anything). If the fax was relevant to a particular project, you can tag it with that (or have it done automatically if your emails have enough content) and then it's under BOTH "fax" and that project name.

    Searching? Start typing in the search boxes and it insta-narrows across either the email account you have selected or all accounts for the user (and it's a full text search, so you can just type anybody's name or even a word that you remember being in the email).

    It also does the same for all my RSS feeds, too.

    Remember what WinFS was promised to be? I pretty much have that for my email at the moment. I always wonder why people struggle along with clunky mail systems that only integrate into their browser by mailto: links. Hell, it even auto-saves any draft I ever make as soon as I start typing it. My mailboxes have followed me for YEARS now through so many versions of Opera. The oldest emails I have saved are from 2002 - and all insta-searchable without even telling how old or new they are.

  98. Mail Rules??? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Does this include setting up mail rules to automatically sort mail into folders? Of course this is in combination with having a mail client that can search through all folders.

  99. Lotus Notes by Dani+Filth · · Score: 1

    Obviously the "smarter" group wasn't encumbered with Lotus Notes. What a POS.

  100. This isn't google by jon3k · · Score: 1

    Searching on my exchange server takes days, I don't know what's wrong but it's awful. I organize into a few generic folders (vendors, projects, etc) then at least when I search those folders it takes hours instead of days. So a combination of sorting AND searching.

  101. The Inbetweeners by Zamphatta · · Score: 1

    I'm one of the inbetweeners....I have gmail set to auto label/file incoming emails according to filters. Then I just archive them when I'm finished. To find them again, I use search. I just don't want my inbox to be 1000's long, so I have to put them somewhere. So I make my program file them, I just one-click archive (Will amazon sue me?), and also search. I guess that makes me an inbetweener.

  102. folder structure by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It depends on folder structure. I generally go for something relatively simple at work:

    INBOX
    Sent
    Received
    2011
    . Q1
    . . Received
    . . Sent
    . Q2
    . . Received
    . . Sent

    Anything for the current (calendar) quarter in Sent/Received, and then every quarter it gets moved into Q1/2/3/4. If I ever get a message saying that I'm hitting my mailbox quota I move the oldest quarter (probably from 2010) to a local file. If I need to find something it's generally a matter of trying to remember roughly when it occurred, and then using basic search functionality to kind a keyword to narrow down the messages.

    More organized that one giant folder, but easier to do / less hassle then a gajillion different folders.

  103. CREATE INDEX by tepples · · Score: 1

    For any filing rule predicate there exists a search predicate you can run later.

    It's a way to work around slow or overloaded search engines. If you run and cache common search predicates when the mail is received, which is ideally spread out throughout the day, searches will complete faster. Filing rules are an index for commonly used search predicates.

  104. Depends on how you use folders by bryan1945 · · Score: 1

    If you have 15 folders of different things, that could take time. I have work, school, and web purchases. Everything else stays in the Inbox until trashed.

    --
    Vote monkeys into Congress. They are cheaper and more trustworthy.
  105. I don't file my emails by paulkoan · · Score: 1

    I don't file my email into folders, I have a computer to do that. They are good at that kind of thing you know... popfile.

    So now my search is faster than yours because I can target a foldered subset of my emails without the overhead of moving emails to the right folder. Looks like I win.

    --
    This signature intentionally left blank
  106. Gmail better than Outlook by Grizzley9 · · Score: 1

    I have to use Outlook for work on my Thinkpad. I use Gmail for all personal use (web or phone interface). Why can you have thousands of emails in Gmail with near instant search and no bogging down, but if you tried to do that with Outlook it would take forever. Plus it constantly wants to "archive" your email in a way that means you'll likely never see it again and can't handle thousands of emails in the inbox like Gmail can. Search takes forever and is not intuitive, autofilters are not very good. Outlook is way behind Gmail.

  107. IBM...Ugh! by Questy · · Score: 1

    Based on the dealings I have had with IBM over there years (several companies, different projects), IBM needs to spend their time figuring out how to make their own products work rather than trying to figure out user behavioral patterns. The fact that I've never seen a single IBM project completed at an employer of mine in the 20 years I've been in IT tells me that instead of searching their email, folks might actually need to use it as a "To-Do" instead. http://43folders.com/ http://inbozero.com/

    --
    #!/Jerald
  108. Study is Begging the Question by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 1

    Project folders are superior, especially as time passes one can't remember proper keyword to bring up all relevant emails.

    Yeah, the study isn't studying your use case. Here's one of mine - I have a folder called 'Expenses'.

    When I get an e-mail receipt or invoice, it goes into the Expenses folder. When it's time for accounting, I go to that folder, step down the list, and put the data into the accounting system. Mind-numbingly boring but effective (hey, where are my microformats?). If I had to search for each of these, it'd take forever - many of them are one-off expenses.

    I use the Nostalgy extension for Thunderbird, so filing the message takes three keystrokes ('S' 'e' 'enter') and perhaps 3 seconds (IMAP). Nostalgy saves me enough time on a regular basis that I donate to the project whenever it comes to mind.

    --
    My God, it's Full of Source!
    OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
  109. Categories by AwooOOoo · · Score: 1

    I use Outlook 2010 for work and use 'Categories' for sorting information. I have about 200 metadata tags and usually tag an email with 2-4 of them while working through my email in date ordered view. I've put the categorize button on the titlebar which automatically gets it an auto-assigned hotkey (Alt-2) in my case which means I can assign all categories for a given email as I read it in less than 5 seconds. It also means emails can exist in more than one category unlike with folders where you have to remember where you put them, unless you have a really good filing system. When I need to find something, I switch to collapsed category view (macro on toolbar) and expand the relevant category, easy to find things. I've got about 25 Gig of historical email archived into quarters and it seems to work fine. I also use a similar thing with personal email on Gmail with tags (i.e. 'Accounts' for websites I sign up for and 'orders' for things like amazon purchases). Data is only useful if you can turn it into information. My method isn't perfect, but is the best I've found for how 'I' work.

  110. Typical geek reaction by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The research contradicts what my semi Aspergers mind tells me to do, so it must be wrong.

  111. Works fine for me by aclarke · · Score: 1

    I have 12,079 messages in my main GMail inbox. All my email inboxes combined contain 26,369 messages. This only goes back to November 2005 as I have never gotten around to importing my emails dating back to the early '90s.

    I don't find this number of messages unwieldy at all. I've set up a few (7) smart mailboxes for different clients, but I use Apple Mail's search feature to take care of the rest of my needs.

  112. Email could be better by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I want a system that lets me check a box to make an email a task, showing a new line to put all the task data in, like enter in a due date that adds it to my daily calender/todo list, priority, typeable tags, and then when I check the done box it gets auto archived.
    The todo list should hopefully give me some nice sorting options, like by tag, by date, by priority.
    Make it in a system that companies will not reject (Opensource? Is that safe? Who supports it?), and then wait for a big company to come along and buy it from you...before they ruin it within 2 years.

  113. Outlook Horror Story by phntm · · Score: 1

    I was working on a helpdesk team, and we had a user with her outlook pst file getting full...
    she wasn't on desk so we just did the most natural thing: delete recycle bin, problem solved. right?
    apparently her brilliant organizational system revolved around: shit i need - press delete - like gmail's archive only with the delete key.
    well, good for you - next time - either learn to clean your own shit or make a system that makes sense to others who try to help.

  114. As always, hybrid is where its at ... for me by Jahf · · Score: 1

    While I buy the "search is faster" argument for the giant inboxes we all have, folders still serve a purpose. There are old conversations that I want to keep ... that when I get around to needing them I may not remember the right keyword.

    Perhaps I have a thread from Customer1 that turns out to be highly relevant to ProductA even though it doesn't mention that product anywhere in the email. I want it in a folder.

    Labels can be considered folders in this case.

    Point being is that JUST searching is not adequate, either, once you are moving to long-term archival instead of on-going conversation. Very few things make it to my folders ... but those things that do belong there.

    --
    It is more productive to voice thoughtful opinions (reply) than to judge (moderate) others.
  115. "Study?" I doubt the veracity of this "study"? by enigmuh0 · · Score: 1

    Did IBM conduct this study internally or in heterogeneous environments? Probably the former. I have 20 years of mail server administration experience (Sendmail, Postfix) that says otherwise. I've spent hours helping people with oversized inboxes who have either lost emails or there mail is bouncing because their mail spool is over 1 Gigabyte and their inbox file can't be appended. More hours spent addressing client-side or server-side performance problems because people don't care if they chew up 3 gigabytes of RAM on the server because they have a 1.2 GB inbox. The fools who publish this nonsense obviously didn't measure how quickly a user with a 50 megabyte inbox can check their new mail with POP or IMAP in comparison with the user with an 800 megabyte inbox. If you add up those seconds lost across users each time mail is checked one would find a different "answer" than the study creators decided they wanted. Email server performance problems in environments devoid of quotas demonstrate a willingness of users to exploit resources to the point of slowing down mail collection for everyone. Email server performance and thus MUA (Mail User Agent) performance is improved the smaller people keep their inbox (quotas or no quotas). A Macintosh OS X user using Spotlight can find email just as quickly regardless of what folder it's in. A UNIX user with a shell script can search hundreds of folders to identify a sough-after piece of email within minutes. I've been filing email with Pine since 1990, have used most email programs out there (Outlook, Outlook Express, Mozilla Thunderbird, mail.app, Pine, Elm, etc.) and it's typically the people who *don't* file their email who come to me for help with problems, not those that do use folders. I find studies that encourage laziness and suggest users should consolidate email in their inbox to the point of negatively impacting server performance and the speed at which others can check their email to be unscientific if not profane. It's obvious this study was crafted with a very narrow set of parameters that ensured this specious outcome and should be ignored due to its lack of rigor as to what variables are actually involved in the time values impacting people checking and using email on both the client/server sides.

  116. Filing is useful by YTMDetc · · Score: 1

    Hmm. I use Gmail, and even though the search on Gmail is pretty good, I still file my emails. Why? Because I use my Inbox very much like an in-tray - I leave emails in it that are yet to be dealt with, and anything that is not immediately important I file away. This leaves my inbox less cluttered, and makes it very clear what still needs replying to or otherwise dealing with, without me having to write it in a to-do list. It also looks aesthetically pleasing and makes me feel overall less stressed about my emails when I can see how many need dealing with all at once, but I guess that's more personal preference. Not to mention the other points raised such as usability for shared accounts. Ultimately, though, I think everyone has their preferred way of dealing with emails, and if you're after efficiency your best bet is just to let them get on with it.

  117. Misunderstandings in the summary by MobyDisk · · Score: 1

    Apparently the filers are using their inbox as a to-do list rather than wanting to categorize information to find it more easily.

    That isn't what the article says. Actually, that is the converse of what it says. It says that those who use their inbox as a todo list become filers. Not that those who are filers use thier inbox as a todo list. Further, the article suggest that people should categorize information to find it more easily. It says that doesn't work.

    The article says that those who use their inbox as a todo list often turn to filing things in folders when they get too much email to fit on the screen. The research says that this doesn't help - they spend too much time putting things into folders. Instead, it recommends keeping a threaded view to minimize screen real estate.

    Many people use the inbox as a ‘todo’ list, a function which is compromised by a high incoming message volume, causing them to folder.

    Using your inbox as a todo list is a valid strategy only if you keep up with your email as it arrives. If you can't do that, then you need a separate todo list. But it should be a single folder - or a separate app. I use my inbox as a todo list, but the only 2 folders are inbox (todo) and trash (done).

  118. Personally... by abroadwin · · Score: 1

    I'm a fan of combining search, rules to drop email in folders and smart mailboxes. These things aren't mutually exclusive, you know.

  119. Frickin' Outlook. Search doesn't work at all.... by Radical+Moderate · · Score: 1

    ...if I have more than 1000 or so messages in a folder. It just searches...and searches...and searches...never showing any hits. Searching my inbox? Impossible. the only way I can search is to use folders, and then hope I'm searching the right folder...which kind of negates the whole point of searching.

    --
    Never let a lack of data get in the way of a good rant.
  120. Desktop Search by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I hardly ever put emails in special folders. In fact, I put all my sent and received emails into a common PST root level and use a desktop search tool to find whatever I need. Sometimes the search is extremely reliable while other times it requires a bit of forensics on my part to systematically track down my intended prey. Many emails diverge from the original topic or contain multiple critical action items so classifying them in unique folders isn't a very effective means to recall later as some might think. My desktop search usually pays off quickly and often uncovers bits of historical material many have long forgotten to be relevant.

  121. Disagree! Too simplistic! by prince+hal · · Score: 0

    For instance, did they study how many of these "searcher" users accidentally deleted truly important emails because they couldn't easily tell them apart from all the other crap? No, relying on search alone to make your mountain of email data a useful resource makes about as much sense as keeping a watchdog that performs acceptably even though it really does eat your homework whenever it can...

  122. Useless... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Another useless article and useless waste of money by IBM.

  123. I don't agree by Murdoch5 · · Score: 1

    I file emails automatically so when certain people email me I can find there emails faster and keep there requests separate so I don't confuse them. The project managers get there own folders, my boss and his boss have there own. It just makes the entire process much easier to find / respond and keep sorted everyone email.

  124. Modified GTD guys approach by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The GTD guy said it best, which I've modified slightly for my own use. All new e-mail is either deleted or responded to if a response can be done in less that 2min. If I need to refer to it in the future, I drag to a "Processed" folder. All that remains in my inbox, is essentially my TODO list, with complete conversation history. If I ever need to refer to an old e-mail, just use search

  125. God forbid... by afabbro · · Score: 1

    Apparently the filers are using their inbox as a to-do list rather than wanting to categorize information to find it more easily.

    God forbid that people would adapt a general-purpose tool to meet their personal needs.

    --
    Advice: on VPS providers
  126. The reason why I use folders... by kangsterizer · · Score: 1

    is not to make them easier to find.

    It's to have less emails in the inbox to read every day. I don't need to read all the announcements stuff, all the bugs stuff. I just want to read the personally, directly address mail and see if theres anything urgent.

    Then I still wanna keep the other ones so i can read through when i got time, or just search through later if i need them.

    So there you have it; Sorting by folder has not much to do with actually searching for mails later on.
    It's only about having only the important mails disturbing you with a "new mail notification". That's that.

    Pretty sure It's what most use it for.

  127. Both: Best option. by Anonymous+Freak · · Score: 1

    I have emails auto-filtered into an array of many-nested subfolders. I can see at a glance what 'category' new emails are in. Oh, to this distribution list? Ignore for now. This kind of notification? Read right away. Sent directly to inbox? Either useless or very important.

    The benefit is that when I get 100 new emails during the course of a meeting, I don't have to even visually scan 100 messages. I can visually scan 20 subfolders to see which have the new messages, then concentrate on order of importance.

    When searching, though, I search all. (Although I will usually click on the folder I *THINK* it should be in first, search there, then if I don't get what I want, click the "search all folders" link. Searching a single folder can be much faster, if I picked the right folder. And I pick the right one maybe 80% of the time.)

    --
    Another non-functioning site was "uncertainty.microsoft.com."
    The purpose of that site was not known.
  128. Single Point of Failure by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    well, email filter exist for that reason... if people does not use filters, shoot in the head

    keep emails *only* on a single folder, is a SPOF

    various email client screw up when a "folder" get corrupted, for a know or a unknow reason (hardware limited, software limited, FS limited, power outage...)

    so, create a filter to move emails to various folders is a sane thing to do.
    on my point of view, is a pre-index, because uses the filesystem to index the emails

    I prefer do a search in a 1k emails folder which 1gb of data instead
    do a search on 10k emails folder which 45gb of unsorted garbage

  129. I'd use Search except... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm using Outlook at work. It has a Search, or at least some GUI with a text labels on it containing the chars "search". Sometimes it finds results. Sometimes it finds these results in record time, under 20 minutes, sometimes not. Sometimes the results actually contain search results, but usually not.

    I do like Spam, however -- lots of it. No need to organize Spam, or search for that matter, heck I don't even have to read the Spam, I'm comfortable knowing that it's just there.

    But my work emails, which sometimes contain more useful information than Spam, are required reading for my job. I could be coding, but instead I'm waiting for Outlook for find my highly-relevant search results.

  130. Use Filters by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That way e-mail is filed automaticly when received ( no time wasted by the user ). I started using filters before we had an enterprise spam filter and found that once I had all my filters set up, everything left in my in-box was spam, so I just cleared it. I rarely even need to search anymore and I can deal with e-mail in priority sequence based upon which folder it ends up in.

  131. Mathematical basis by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    LInear search O(n), n-ary tree search using folders indexed by sending orginization/dept O(log(n))

  132. It's worse than that by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Your e-mailbox is not a storage unit. Suppose you treated your real physical mailbox the way people treat their e-mailbox. You would open it, dig thru it, decide to take a few items out, and shove the rest back in. How do you think your (real, physical) mail delivery person would respond to that? Well, that's how your email system administrator feels about the current situation.

  133. Studies by macraig · · Score: 1

    In other news, a study just published in Nature claims that studies aren't really very informative at all. Expect a retraction shortly, though.

  134. Outlook search? by swm · · Score: 1

    My company runs exchange, so I have to run Outlook.
    Search on Outlook is slow and clumsy.
    I only use it under duress (i.e. when I absolutely can not find what I am looking for any other way.)
    And when I do use it, I only find what I am seeking maybe half the time.

    My personal email is in files in directories, and I search it with find/grep.
    This is simple, fast, and usually successful.

  135. Flawed Study by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The study could not possibly have pondered the time taken when you work in a government agency subject to a Freedom of Information Act request, or a private company in a lawsuit. Providing every email message related to project X is nearly impossible without having filed them at the time.

  136. Asking the wrong question by taustin · · Score: 1

    While it is, no doubt, true that those who do not file stuff can find what they want faster with search than those who do can with their folders, I suspect that those who do file find stuff faster in their folders than those who file stuff would with search.

    To each his own. Not everybody benefits from the same methods.

  137. I can see that.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There not forced to use Outlook 2000 connected to an antiquated NT4 network.... damn I wish my company would get out of the stone age.

  138. If I left everything on my desk... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    or around my office floor, or for that matter clothes on my wardrobe floor - what would my life be - a mess !

    I cull emails ruthlessly and spend some time filing others - search works just as well whether you have 1 folder or 100.

  139. Tags! by Tablizer · · Score: 1

    I always wanted a tag-based (key-phrase/word ) classification system for emails. It would allow multiple tags per message, and would tell you if the tag is new or on the list (used already), kind of like a spell-checker.

  140. Performance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Interestingly, Microsoft have a recommendation for limiting the number of items in a single folder view for performance reasons. From the horses mouth...

    You can help avoid poor performance in Outlook by carefully managing the number of items in folders, especially the Outlook folders that are heavily used. These folders include the Inbox, Calendar, Tasks, and Sent Items folders and any other heavily used folders.

    The recommended number of items in a folder depends on several factors. These factors include the client's proximity to the server, the storage infrastructure, the load on the hard disks, the number of users, and the number of restricted views.

    We recommend that you maintain a range of 3,500 to 5,000 items in a folder depending on the capacity of the Exchange Server environment. Additionally, you can create more top-level folders or create sub-folders underneath the Inbox and Sent Items folders. When you do this, the costs that are associated with index creation will be greatly reduced if the number of items in any one folder does not exceed 5,000.

  141. I would use Rules by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Put my ebay emails in ebay folder so I don't see them when I am looking at work emails.

  142. Companies that are domino-free are smarter by nenchev · · Score: 1

    This is coming from the bone-heads that created Notes, which is the most cumbersome email software I've ever used. Also, I categorize emails, such as "Funny", "Reference" etc. Searching for email specifically would assume that the person who sent the email placed enough information in the subject and body for their crappy indexing to catalogue.

  143. Folders considered helpful by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I have to file emails because very often there's no adequate search term. For example, I create folders for different customers. When I want to look at emails for customer XYZ, I click the XYZ folder. Nice. Many times there is nothing in the title, body, or recipient list that will unambiguously denote that an email is related to customer XYZ. Besides, I don't want to type anything, I just want to click XYZ.

  144. Not really by elsurexiste · · Score: 1

    I personally know three of the authors, so my accounting is more faithful :) . They didn't use Lotus Notes, as you said it's unworkable. Instead, they put together a mini front-end for the server: a diluted version of Notes, Notes a la Gmail (RTFA). Searching is also handled differently.

    --
    I rarely respond to comments. Also, don't ask for clarifications: a brain and Google are faster, believe me!
  145. Now Where Did I Put That Message... by jman.org · · Score: 1

    Perhaps the good folk at Big Blue have never heard of filters...

  146. I Call Bullsh!t by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It is very dis-organized to put all your crap in one place...just think of it...Why not put all your clothes in one pile in the bedroom so that it is more efficient to get dressed in the morning...yeah much better!

  147. Always file TWICE, email & in project folder by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    1 Email is not searchable by anyone except original recipient/sender under EU law (Emails even at work are private). Remove email address on someone leaving and all acces to correspondence is lost.
    2. Thus always have everyone hold email in email if they want, but enforce saving text copy to project folder in company archives.(readable and backed up relevant authority access)
    3.Otherwise how do you answer a lawsuit or search warrant for correspondence (hard copies?). Failure to keep 'commercial' data anything of financial impact could be jail if required and it is not available at court or tax authorities request....

  148. Speed is irrelevant by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Speed is totally irrelevant. Especially if you're talking a second or so, its idiotic to think like that. Organising what you see and what you use in order for your brain can work better is really what you want.

  149. That's why by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You use the filter feature to automatically move the emails into folders. AND the search to find them. What a useless study.

  150. If this is true by drauckerr · · Score: 1

    then why don't they just get rid of all the TLDs on the net? After all, per IBM, having broad top level categories for things is less efficient than having one big honking search engine that is totally dependent on your ability to figure out something unique about what you are looking for. Instead, the Internet continues to be divided into an ever greater number of "folders".

    All in all, this sounds to me like another one of those "Coke is really a diet food" type studies that chases a desired conclusion.

  151. Not about search by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    For me filing my emails is not about finding them any faster, but about workflow. Filing an email is an indication to myself that I have dealt with the email. Anything in my Inbox is still waiting to be processed. I have not found a better method of workflow yet.

  152. I use folder and search by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I only use folders for things that are "done". That keeps my inbox open for "to do" and I delete everything that is just junk or not an action item. The only reason I keep folders is to CYA - if I didn't have to do that in this fallen world then there would be only inbox and trash. To find something I use search right of the bat ...

  153. filing vs. not by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I file by project because the archive then gets saved with the project on our server. Later anyone needing info on what was said and done can find it.

  154. TRUE, DATA IS DATA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Correct. DATA IS DATA. You may have all the reasoning in the world why your system works with key words being hard to recall, and such, but for all you who think folders are Superior, the data has spoken that it is, in fact, NOT. Accept data people. What else do we have? That said, while there may be some people who truly are faster with folders, this ruling should promote enterprise roll out and support of proficient search tools.