RIM PlayBook Email App Nowhere In Sight

Umm.... by mehrotra.akash · 2011-10-26 08:03 · Score: 2

So, a Blackberry without email? Seriously?

Re:Umm.... by Palshife · 2011-10-26 08:07 · Score: 1

Been that way since day one. Seriously. I can't imagine how they've sold even one of these things.

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Attention deficit disorder is a complicated issue, spanning several major... HEY LET'S GO RIDE BIKES!
Re:Umm.... by UnknowingFool · 2011-10-26 08:14 · Score: 1

Yes but the promise was it would be corrected in an update due sometime summer 2011. That has pased, the update has been pushed back, but the mail functionality isn't on the update list anymore.

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Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
Re:Umm.... by h4rr4r · 2011-10-26 08:15 · Score: 1

How?
A basic email client in something that a couple guys could crank out in a month. That is being pretty generous, too. I can't imagine the messenger is any more complicated.
Re:Umm.... by Captain+Splendid · 2011-10-26 08:16 · Score: 1

I'm stunned. I've already predicted RIM's eventual demise as they get crushed, Night At The Roxbury style, between iPhone and Android.

But this makes me think I need to review my RIM Intrade strategy right sharpish.

Honestly, couldn't they at least ginned up some quick webmail app or something? Playbook's got a browser, right?

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Linux, you magnificent bastard, I read the fucking manual!
Re:Umm.... by Anonymous Coward · 2011-10-26 08:43 · Score: 1

It's because their email system has to be certified as secure for their various corporate users. I'm sure it's not the coding it part that is taking so long, it's regressing all the bugs and making sure it meets the various ridiculous security requirements (which their phones already meet).
Re:Umm.... by h4rr4r · 2011-10-26 08:47 · Score: 1

So maybe use more standard methods?
IMAPS, SMTPS, Activesync, etc.
Then run full hardware crypto on the storage.
Re:Umm.... by Lieutenant_Dan · 2011-10-26 08:47 · Score: 1

You're being a bit harsh to the guy; he's got a valid point. RIM should have the resources to this. Yeah, they got this new OS, new hardware and a ultra-secret secure messaging system. Isn't it all documented; at least internally? Then they should be able to build it. They promised that the device was capable and that it was coming.
Maybe not two months for an independent firm to build, but certainly RIM should have been able to do this themselves in a year.

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Wearing pants should always be optional.
Re:Umm.... by icebike · 2011-10-26 08:57 · Score: 2

That and encrypt every message.
It probably is taking this long distributing all the backdoor decryption keys to the various governments around the world.

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Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
Re:Umm.... by h4rr4r · 2011-10-26 08:58 · Score: 1

Seems simple enough, PGP.
I bet this is just a product of their being a big old stuffy bunch of empty suits.
Re:Umm.... by bill_mcgonigle · 2011-10-26 09:06 · Score: 1

But this makes me think I need to review my RIM Intrade strategy right sharpish.
What, you didn't buy puts on RIM LEAP's when they announced their QNX strategy?

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My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
Re:Umm.... by tlhIngan · 2011-10-26 09:16 · Score: 1

Well, you can always use webmail :). Since it has Flash, it'll give you True Web Experience(tm)!
(Unfortunately, like the HP touchPad, it runs Flash all the time...).
As for BBM, apparently the problem is that BBM makes the assumption of one PIN per member, and I don't think Playbooks have PINs (and now you have a problem of two PINs if it's also linked to a blackberry). BBM being an extension of what used to be "free" messaging by PIN that goes all the way back to the original mobitex blackberries.
Re:Umm.... by h4rr4r · 2011-10-26 09:20 · Score: 1

Don't feed the trolls.
The ever increasing number behind his name should clue you in.
Re:Umm.... by NatasRevol · 2011-10-26 09:21 · Score: 1

I did. The day before their last earning release. $27.5 Sept puts went up 5.5x in 18 hours.

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There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
Re:Umm.... by sarhjinian · 2011-10-26 09:47 · Score: 1

PlayBooks have PINs, but you're right that a large part is the one-user-one-PIN model that BBM, as well as BIS (commercial email) and BES (enterprise email+collab), use.
That, and the code that supports it is probably pretty crufty---so much so that they cancelled the BBOS VM that would have been an easy way to run these apps on the PlayBook. It's the same problem that keeps delaying their QNX-based phones: getting a messaging infrastructure that's rickety, old, secure as hell and run on the same stuff for nearly a decade, over to a whole new platform without losing the "secure" and "managed" bits that basically are BlackBerry's reason to exist versus ActiveSync-equipped devices.

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--srj/mmv
Re:Umm.... by h4rr4r · 2011-10-26 09:50 · Score: 1

Thanks for telling me, he posts so low I don't see him. I had to do the expand thing when someone commented on his comment.
INSERT HIS CATCHPHRASE HERE
Re:Umm.... by sarhjinian · 2011-10-26 09:51 · Score: 3, Insightful

I can't honestly figure out why any tablet other than the iPad sells at all.

And this is why most geeks' take on this market is worth nothing.
You listed a bunch of hardware features. Most people don't care. Most people just want a device that works well and doesn't require them to fiddle or futz around. The iPad does this really, really well, and that's why it's sold---actually sold to end-users, not stuffed into a channel---millions and millions of units.
That geekdom can't or won't appreciate the "works well/no fiddling" part is why, eg, RIM is in deep crap. Their only saving grace is BBM which, ta-daa, requires hardly any fiddling and works really well.

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--srj/mmv
Re:Umm.... by narcc · 2011-10-26 10:36 · Score: 1

Well, it DOES have email through BlackBerry Bridge. This actually makes a lot of sense. See, if I'm deploying tablets in an enterprise where I already have BlackBerry phones deployed, I have to do nothing except drop off a stack of tablets.
Any user who grabs one has instant access to their calendar, contacts, email, and files. If they pass the tablet off to a coworker, their info is gone, and the new user has access to all of their data.
In the enterprise, discouraging the use of native email (you can still use one of many third-party email programs) you can deploy tablets with ZERO management overhead. If you lose a tablet, it's not a problem -- your data is safe.
As an added benefit, users can very easily share tablets. A sales staff, for example, could set a stack of playbooks by the door and let traveling personnel grab one on the way out. In a few seconds, they have everything they need on the tablet!
Of course, the morons in the press didn't think for half-a-second about WHY it didn't include native email. I guess they missed all that whole "BlackBerry, Amplified" promo material.

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Required reading for internet skeptics
Re:Umm.... by narcc · 2011-10-26 10:37 · Score: 1

This is still false. RIM can't give the keys for BES users because they don't have them. Neither RIM nor any government can access that data for users on BES.

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Required reading for internet skeptics
Re:Umm.... by icebike · 2011-10-26 10:46 · Score: 1

If you use your own BES, perhaps.
But most consumers don't.
See:
http://www.reuters.com/article/2010/08/12/blackberry-idUSN1213222020100812
This is where governments are demanding access. They are not worried that Ford or Boeing or
Tata Motors employees are plotting terror events. They are worried about consumer devices
running on Rim's own network and servers.
If you are unaware of this, you haven't been paying attention.

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Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
Re:Umm.... by narcc · 2011-10-26 11:19 · Score: 1

I'm very aware of this. However, I'm sick of the nonsense claims that RIM is insecure because they "hand out the keys to everyone". As always, BES users are as secure as ever -- and you don't get better security than on BB.
As for BIS users, the truth is that only users in just a few countries are affected (possibly only one, I'd need to check). Still, if any non-corporate user wants best-in-class security, they can setup BESX for free.

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Required reading for internet skeptics
Re:Umm.... by Lieutenant_Dan · 2011-10-26 12:00 · Score: 1

Thanks for the heads-up. I must be new here, should've picked up on that.

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Wearing pants should always be optional.
Re:Umm.... by Bill,+Shooter+of+Bul · 2011-10-26 15:48 · Score: 1

Ok, you as an It enterprise guy worry about data & set up time and everything, I get that. But what does the company actually gain by purchasing a tablet? What does it provide that the blackberry phone it connects to does not provide? A larger screen?

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Well.. maybe. Or Maybe not. But Definitely not sort of.
Re:Umm.... by mariasama16 · 2011-10-26 16:38 · Score: 1

I know that Asus hasn't really marketed the Transformer, but I really would recommend you go look it up, especially the bits of information we have on the Transformer Prime, before you complain about Android tablets not having a keyboard (or secondary storage).
Re:Umm.... by DJGreg · 2011-10-26 17:35 · Score: 1

Last I read, the required platform for BESX is still Exchange, which most certainly is not free.

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Yes, one day I may actually learn to spell...
Re:Umm.... by xmorg · 2011-10-26 21:56 · Score: 1

Very insightful dude, i wish i had a moderator point :)
Re:Umm.... by Lucky_Norseman · 2011-10-27 00:03 · Score: 1

But they will get native email in February.
It's BlackBerry Messenger that they won't get. Because the BBM is tied to a single device, so they haven't solved the problem of having the same messages on both devices at once.
Re:Umm.... by mehrotra.akash · 2011-10-27 01:05 · Score: 1

Thats still 4 months away
I'm not sure what BBM is about, but if its like a chat service, then google figured it out long back
Why would blackberry take sooooooo long

Wow this is major fail by UnknowingFool · 2011-10-26 08:05 · Score: 1

It's one thing to rush out a product incomplete. It's another to be so incompetent that you can't fulfill the promises that were made.

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Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.

Re:Wow this is major fail by Anonymous Coward · 2011-10-26 08:22 · Score: 1

They should have never released the PlayBook to begin with. Have they learned nothing from Palm Foleo?
Re:Wow this is major fail by UnknowingFool · 2011-10-26 08:29 · Score: 2

Not having certain features at release is not the same as releasing a product supposed to have (and promised to have) certain features. "It didn't have cut and paste but they didn't promise it" vs "It will have BBM and email and contacts but not right now . . . oh never mind about BBM."

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Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
Re:Wow this is major fail by shutdown+-p+now · 2011-10-26 09:34 · Score: 1

Not even iOS and WP7, on their respective first releases, missed a piece of functionality so crucial as an email application.
Re:Wow this is major fail by 1729 · 2011-10-26 10:09 · Score: 1

If that is true then show us one single time in the past 10 years where Apple announced a product release ahead of time with promised features, then didn't deliver.
Apple demoed OS X Leopard at WWDC 2007 (?), where Jobs claimed that the new Time Machine application would allow backups to hard drives attached to Airport Extreme routers. This feature wasn't available when Leopard shipped. Only after many months and many complaints did they finally live up to their word and allow Time Machine to be used with AEs, and not just Time Capsules.
Re:Wow this is major fail by narcc · 2011-10-26 10:53 · Score: 1

I must have missed the part where the PlayBook was incomplete. It had everything they indented and promised at the time it was released.
Native email was purposefully omitted. Apple does this all the time. You've ALWAYS had email on the PlayBook through BlackBerry Bridge. There are numerous advantages to this, which I and many others have repeated in every playbook thread on Slashdot. Besides, if you want native email, you can just use one of many third-party email applications, or even web mail (like most home users are likely to use anyway.)
The ONLY reason RIM is adding native email now is because of all the bad-press from idiot "reporters" who didn't bother to do more than 5-seconds of research before writing a bunch of rambling nonsense.
RIM promoted the PlayBook as "Your BlackBerry, Amplified". A BB phone is, consequently, a key part of the PlayBook experience.
Paired with a BB, it's one astonishingly good tablet. The hardware is above-par, and the software is fantastic -- a brilliant UI, true multi-tasking, and the most stable and secure OS on the market (QNX runs nuclear reactors. It's that good). Until iOS 5, it even had a better browser than the iPad. RIM's browser will undoubtedly leap ahead again in the next generation of devices.

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Required reading for internet skeptics
Re:Wow this is major fail by narcc · 2011-10-26 10:55 · Score: 1

The PlayBook DID HAVE EMAIL -- the way it was intended, through BlackBerry Bridge. Zero-management, best security on the market.

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Required reading for internet skeptics
Re:Wow this is major fail by CharlyFoxtrot · 2011-10-26 11:02 · Score: 1

It wasn't a question of not wanting to allow it, it just didn't work well enough. Even now you'll find some people discouraging the use of Time Machine with Airport Extreme attached disks, although I haven't had a problem myself.

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If all else fails, immortality can always be assured by spectacular error.
Re:Wow this is major fail by shutdown+-p+now · 2011-10-26 11:14 · Score: 2

What you're saying is that PlayBook didn't have email, but it could piggyback on another device that did - but only if it was a BB smartphone. In other words, PlayBook didn't have email unless you purchased a BB smartphone to match. Since BB smartphones are kinda crappy for most usage scenarios of the kind of people who buy tablets in the first place, that's effectively the same as not having it - which is exactly how the market took it.
Re:Wow this is major fail by shutdown+-p+now · 2011-10-26 11:15 · Score: 1

... oh, and "best security on the market" is, and has forever been, a non-proprietary SSL connection directly to the email server - which any modern smartphone has been able to do for years.
Re:Wow this is major fail by narcc · 2011-10-26 11:27 · Score: 1

Since BB smartphones are kinda crappy for most usage scenarios
Except for email, messaging, PIM -- oh, and web browsing! Yeah, as of OS6 RIMs browser is actually better than the iPhone. It wasn't until iOS 5 that Apple's browser managed to re-take the top spot.
Common functions like phone calls and messaging have always been RIM's strength. Audio, video, and web browsing meet or exceed the capabilities of other platforms.
They don't have nearly as many high-end games though. If that's what's important to you.
As for the PlayBook market -- you do realize it was marketed to BlackBerry users. The tagline was "Your BlackBerry, Amplified" It was made very clear that the PlayBook was designed to work in tandem with a BlackBerry phone.

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Required reading for internet skeptics
Re:Wow this is major fail by narcc · 2011-10-26 11:36 · Score: 1

Sorry, are you actually claiming that other smartphones have met or exceeded the security of BlackBerry?
You're very much alone in that one. Remember, it's not just email that is secure -- it's everything -- including the OS.
iOS, for example, is so insecure that just visiting a webpage is enough to jailbreak and install an application.

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Required reading for internet skeptics
Re:Wow this is major fail by sarhjinian · 2011-10-26 11:57 · Score: 1

No, RIM's browser on the BBOS devices has never been on par with Mobile Safari except in certain very targeted benchmarks. In terms of user experience, the OS7 devices are just catching up to the 3GS now and there is no way you can claim that the OS6 devices, like the 9800 Torch I have, are in the same league as the iPhone 4.
They arent egregiously bad like OS5 or earlier, but that's damning with faint praise.

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--srj/mmv
Re:Wow this is major fail by narcc · 2011-10-26 12:33 · Score: 1

Well, in a side-by-side the Torch 9800 performs comparably to the iPhone 4 in terms of speed -- bringing up and rendering pages. Pre iOS 5, the BlackBerry browser beats the pants off of Mobile Safari when it comes to HTML 5 support (that's by all objective measures).
OS7 devices are even better, that is, with the major hardware improvements.
RIM has a solid web-browser that is comparable to or beats the other major players. The "Blackberry is horrid for web browsing" myth stopped being true a long time ago.
Like I said before, Apple was behind RIM on the web browser front until iOS 5. As Apple is known for having a great mobile browser, you can't fault the BlackBerry's web browsing experience at all.
Times are changing. RIM has caught up and hasn't stopped moving forward. In several areas, they're leading the pack.

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Required reading for internet skeptics
Re:Wow this is major fail by shutdown+-p+now · 2011-10-26 12:44 · Score: 2

Who cares about rendering the page in 10ms instead of 20ms, when usability is crap?
Re:Wow this is major fail by shutdown+-p+now · 2011-10-26 12:48 · Score: 1

We were talking about email specifically. I'm claiming that other smartphones have met or exceeded the security of BB's approach to email years ago, and so "tablet has to be tethered to a BB phone to work with email, but it's more secure that way!" is not only a lame excuse, it's not an excuse at all.

iOS, for example, is so insecure that just visiting a webpage is enough to jailbreak and install an application.
JailbreakMe - which is the one you're referring to - is not applicable to current stable iOS versions.
In any case, this stuff is due to security vulnerabilities in the stock apps, rather than any specific approach to handling of user data etc by the OS. Are you claiming that BBOS is bug-free? Will BB vouch that there are no remote code execution vulnerabilities in BBOS?
Re:Wow this is major fail by narcc · 2011-10-26 13:25 · Score: 1

We were talking about email specifically.
I didn't realize. In that case, there is more to email security than just its transmission. There is also the security of email on the device to consider. On that front, RIM is still unmatched.

Will BB vouch that there are no remote code execution vulnerabilities in BBOS?
While I doubt BB with vouch for that, they do actively search for vulnerabilities in their software and patch them before they become a problem. Their software also holds more security related certifications than any other mobile product.

JailbreakMe - which is the one you're referring to - is not applicable to current stable iOS versions.
If by that you mean iOS 5, then yes. Know of any version of iOS 4 that doesn't work with jailbreakme?
Oh, and iOS 5 is really new. Given jailbreakme a few weeks and see if you can make that same claim.
You just can't deny the fact that RIMs security is unparalleled and Apple has a ... less than stellar security record.

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Required reading for internet skeptics
Re:Wow this is major fail by shutdown+-p+now · 2011-10-26 13:34 · Score: 1

If by that you mean iOS 5, then yes. Know of any version of iOS 4 that doesn't work with jailbreakme?
4.3.4 - the one that was specifically released to close that hole, in fact.

You just can't deny the fact that RIMs security is unparalleled and Apple has a ... less than stellar security record.
It may well be that RIM makes the most secure devices. I won't claim otherwise, since I don't count this as a major feature when shopping around (and I use Android, in any case - not that it has a particularly good record). My point, anyway, was that BB specifically positions Playbook as a device for a very different market than "oldschool" BB phones, that of an entertainment device. And there, tying the basic functionality of the device to a smartphone that's empathically not what people who belong to that market want is a recipe for an epic fail. Which is precisely what happened.
Now if BB was actually positioning Playbook as a device primarily for the corporate market, then perhaps it would have worked. But then it would have very different features in other respects, and wouldn't even be called Playbook.
Re:Wow this is major fail by narcc · 2011-10-26 13:39 · Score: 1

Sorry, I'm not seeing where the BlackBerry browser is less usable than Mobile Safari. What exactly are you referring to here?
I'll even take this a step farther and say that RIM offers more in terms of usability than Apple on that front.
RIM has all the features of Mobile Safari including that weird bounce-back thing, pinch-to-zoom, a double-tap to zoom/size a column of text, etc. They begin to exceed Apple with the optical trackpad, which makes using the web on your phone work just like it does in the browser -- hover-over menus and roll-over effects work exactly like they're supposed to. It also means that I don't need to zoom-in to click a link that I can read just fine, but is too small (or is too tightly grouped with other links) to hit with a finger accurately.
In terms of mobile-web usability, I actually get MORE from RIM than I do from Apple.

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Required reading for internet skeptics
Re:Wow this is major fail by narcc · 2011-10-26 13:53 · Score: 1

It was my understanding that RIM was marketing the tablet to enterprise users -- not home users. RIM was widely criticized for calling the PlayBook "The first professional tablet", for example, because of the lack of native email (I explained earlier in this thread why I think that decision was very sensible for the enterprise market).
The name PlayBook makes more sense to U.S. users where "play book" is a term used to mean a set of plans or strategies. It's a sports analogy, common in the American business community, drawing from American football.
There is a double entendre that seems intentional, in that RIM wanted users to know that while it's business first, it can also entertain on those long flights.
I'm not sure that RIM marketed the PlayBook to any significant degree to the consumer market. Though for non-enterprise blackberry users, it really is a great tablet option.

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Required reading for internet skeptics
Re:Wow this is major fail by UnknowingFool · 2011-10-26 15:33 · Score: 4, Insightful

I must have missed the part where the PlayBook was incomplete. It had everything they indented and promised at the time it was released.
What part of it was promised to have email and BBM and contacts by summer 2011 is not clear?

If you don’t have a BlackBerry phone, you’re out of luck until summer, when RIM says a future software update will bring native clients to the PlayBook.
And then summer 2011 came and went. Now the functionality will be delayed all the way back to 2012. And BBM will not be part of that update. So RIM promised features that are supposed to be part of the tablet. But has not delivered and one feature will not be delivered nearly 9 months if it is ever delivered.

RIM promoted the PlayBook as "Your BlackBerry, Amplified". A BB phone is, consequently, a key part of the PlayBook experience.
So a PlayBook is useless without a BB phone? Please. How can RIMM position the PlayBook as the competitor to Android and iPad and then say it has to be tethered. You are in serious denial.

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Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
Re:Wow this is major fail by UnknowingFool · 2011-10-26 15:37 · Score: 1

RIM has all the features of Mobile Safari including that weird bounce-back thing, pinch-to-zoom, a double-tap to zoom/size a column of text, etc
You mean all the gestures that made browsing on smaller screens usable?

They begin to exceed Apple with the optical trackpad, which makes using the web on your phone work just like it does in the browser
Apple has made no pretense that the iPad is not a desktop. RIM put them in there because they don't have anything more inventive than using a mouse.

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Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
Re:Wow this is major fail by UnknowingFool · 2011-10-26 15:44 · Score: 1

Like I said before, Apple was behind RIM on the web browser front until iOS 5. As Apple is known for having a great mobile browser, you can't fault the BlackBerry's web browsing experience at all.
Describe "behind". You can spouting your opinion but nothing to back it up.

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Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
Re:Wow this is major fail by UnknowingFool · 2011-10-26 17:20 · Score: 1

What part of it is no longer summer 2011 is not clear. It was incomplete when released and RIM knew it. You know it. You can try to spin it, but the PlayBook is still incomplete according to RIM.

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Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
Re:Wow this is major fail by Maury+Markowitz · 2011-10-27 00:47 · Score: 2

"As for the PlayBook market -- you do realize it was marketed to BlackBerry users. The tagline was "Your BlackBerry, Amplified" It was made very clear that the PlayBook was designed to work in tandem with a BlackBerry phone."
Uggg. This is precisely why it was doomed. The BB market is *shrinking*, so why would you possibly tie it in?!
I don't have a BB, so I don't buy a PB. This is a marketing plan? Or a failure plan?
Did we learn nothing from the Unix Wars? Tie-in kills companies. Customers *hate* it. If anything is going to bring down Apple, it's this.
Re:Wow this is major fail by Maury+Markowitz · 2011-10-27 00:58 · Score: 1

"I'm not sure that RIM marketed the PlayBook to any significant degree to the consumer market"
Oh give me a break.
http://www.electronista.com/articles/11/09/30/rim.divided.on.playbook.focus.on.home.pro.users/
The fact that it can only be used in enterprise by buying a second device is moronic. Don't try to be RIMs apologist, you simply make yourself look silly. This product is a failure, and the sales figures back that up.
Re:Wow this is major fail by Maury+Markowitz · 2011-10-27 01:01 · Score: 1

> You are in serious denial.
Seriously.
Re:Wow this is major fail by yabos · 2011-10-27 03:07 · Score: 1

The new BB browser is based on Webkit so it should be pretty much comparable between the two phones. The difference is how they integrate the web view into the UI
Re:Wow this is major fail by Stuarticus · 2011-10-27 03:39 · Score: 1

I guess not being able to access your emails keeps them pretty secure.

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If you think someone isn't free to have a different definition of "freedom" you may be a tyrant.

Need a translation by DoofusOfDeath · 2011-10-26 08:05 · Score: 1

What's Canadian English for, "They're f*cked" ?

Re:Need a translation by pburghdoom · 2011-10-26 08:07 · Score: 3, Insightful

"They're F*cked, eh"
Re:Need a translation by Anonymous Coward · 2011-10-26 08:08 · Score: 1

Nortel ?
Re:Need a translation by margeman2k3 · 2011-10-26 08:11 · Score: 1

"They're f*cked eh?"
Re:Need a translation by dubbayu_d_40 · 2011-10-26 08:19 · Score: 1

There's an app for that - https://market.android.com/details?id=com.pottymouth
Er, on Android...
Re:Need a translation by Lieutenant_Dan · 2011-10-26 08:25 · Score: 4, Insightful

"They're hosed"

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Wearing pants should always be optional.
Re:Need a translation by Sable+Drakon · 2011-10-26 08:34 · Score: 1

Beauty post, eh?

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The Amarri pray for god, the Caldari pray for profit. the Gallente pray for peace, but the Minmatar pray their ships hol
Re:Need a translation by Sable+Drakon · 2011-10-26 08:36 · Score: 1

I believe it'd be something along the likes of 'They're aboot fucked, eh?'.

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The Amarri pray for god, the Caldari pray for profit. the Gallente pray for peace, but the Minmatar pray their ships hol
Re:Need a translation by 93+Escort+Wagon · 2011-10-26 11:14 · Score: 1

Beauty post, eh?
Take off, hoser.

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#DeleteChrome

Well fuck. by drunkennewfiemidget · 2011-10-26 08:08 · Score: 2

I bought my playbook on the premise I'd be able to actually fucking USE it for something soon.

So now it will continue to sit on my desk ignored and unused.

Anyone wanna buy a playbook?

(I know, hell of a sales pitch.)

Re:Well fuck. by couchslug · 2011-10-26 08:21 · Score: 1

"I bought my playbook on the premise I'd be able to actually fucking USE it for something soon."
That's why I'm a LATE adopter. Everyone else should beta test so I can learn from their experience.

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"This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
Re:Well fuck. by grahamsaa · 2011-10-26 10:51 · Score: 1

Still happy with the table given the price I paid.
I'm glad to year you've repurposed it as a table. How's that working out for you?

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Facts have a liberal bias.
Re:Well fuck. by Bogtha · 2011-10-26 11:55 · Score: 1

Does the country you live in not have consumer protection laws of any kind? They promised functionality thy haven't delivered. In most countries you'd be well within your rights to take it back for a full refund. It's not fit for purpose.

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Bogtha Bogtha Bogtha

Not important by Anonymous Coward · 2011-10-26 08:08 · Score: 1

"Email is not important [yet]", remarked RIM co-CEO Mike Lazaridis, "It is certainly not something at RIM has focused on in the past. When e-mail catches on you can be sure that RIM will be at the forefront."

DOA by WaterDamage · 2011-10-26 08:09 · Score: 1

RIM??? They still wasting revenue chasing their proprietary pipe dream? I have 3 letters for them: D.O.A.

I actually RTFA... by delirium28 · 2011-10-26 08:10 · Score: 4, Informative

And they provide a link to the official blog, where it clearly states that the delay is for BlackBerry Messenger, *not* the enterprise email app. They simply don't mention anything about enterprise email there at all.

--
Who is John Galt?

Re:I actually RTFA... by UnknowingFool · 2011-10-26 08:25 · Score: 1

Maybe this part of the blog says it:

The software update will add advanced integrated email, calendar and contact apps, a new video store, as well as new functionality that will allow your BlackBerry smartphone and BlackBerry PlayBook to work together even better.
To me it's not clear whether you will finally get separate email and contacts or whether you will still need a BB smartphone.

--
Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
Re:I actually RTFA... by Anonymous Coward · 2011-10-26 09:13 · Score: 1

It's all because BBM is tightly tied to internal elements of the cell phone network, and introducing WiFi and a completely different network infrastructure requires them to refactor the existing server infrastructure, and architecture, which they can't manage to keep running, the way it is. What do you think really caused those outages? My guess is network backbone software upgrades (called "Routing" in their speak, but which is really the BBM server side code) gone pear-shaped.
W
Re:I actually RTFA... by ceoyoyo · 2011-10-26 09:45 · Score: 1

Riiight. Care to actually elaborate on this alleged tight integration with the cell network?
Re:I actually RTFA... by Maury+Markowitz · 2011-10-27 01:06 · Score: 1

> 's all because BBM is tightly tied to internal elements of the cell phone network
Didn't phase Apple. iMessage works great on iPads.
> My guess is network backbone software upgrades
It was a hardware failure, as well documented in the press.
Re:I actually RTFA... by sglewis100 · 2011-10-27 04:09 · Score: 1

It's all because BBM is tightly tied to internal elements of the cell phone network, and introducing WiFi and a completely different network infrastructure requires them to refactor the existing server infrastructure, and architecture, which they can't manage to keep running, the way it is. What do you think really caused those outages? My guess is network backbone software upgrades (called "Routing" in their speak, but which is really the BBM server side code) gone pear-shaped.
W
Whatever... nobody cares why it's hard. They just care that Blackberry is known for email and BBM, and they have a tablet that can't do it yet. There's truth in that - it's undeniable. If it wasn't so important, perhaps they'd have sold a few million. They had trouble shipping into the channel let alone selling to end users. I can't state for certain that it's because of the lack of email and BBM... but that's a pretty good guess for lagging sales, no? Barnes and Noble shipped a tablet with an email client after all!

Re:Not surprising... by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · 2011-10-26 08:12 · Score: 1

Well, it does have a web browser, so Gmail should be good to go...

Re:Not surprising... by Anonymous Coward · 2011-10-26 08:13 · Score: 5, Funny

Dude, there are tons of things you can do with a Playbook without an attached Blackberry. It makes an excellent oversized coaster or underside plate. A little string and some glue and it makes a nice hat. If you have a cat or very small dog it can be used for a nice kittie/doggie door. It also works as a mediocre paperweight, a very small and crappy snowboard, an extremely shallow ashtray, or a top quality piece of garbage. Seriously, I can barely even think of anything you can't do with a Playbook.

Except for tablet computing. It doesn't do that.

Out of curiosity... by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · 2011-10-26 08:14 · Score: 1

At this point, would it be fair to describe the Playbook as the "RIM Foleo"?

Re:Out of curiosity... by Bill,+Shooter+of+Bul · 2011-10-26 08:48 · Score: 1

No, it was fair to call it the Foleo when it was released. Now, you're just late. Its like deciding to declare the Roman empire to have fallen. Its not false, just not current news.

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Well.. maybe. Or Maybe not. But Definitely not sort of.

Bye Bye Rim by EmperorOfCanada · 2011-10-26 08:17 · Score: 2

RIM keeps blah blahing about having billions in revenue. Revenue is great but profits are the only thing that matter in the end. RIM is probably one quarter away from being profitless. Then they will have to cut to the bone.
The best laugh I had was where they got this skateboarder type who was developing some "Rad" app for them. This was a baby boomer interpretation of being youthful. They might as well had they guy developing from on top of a surfboard.
RIM is following in the footsteps of Novell, and Word Perfect. Once they lost growth and market domination the end came far more quickly than you would have thought.
What I am waiting for is this moment when they realize that their numbers are so awful that they will be instantly ruined. This might be when they pull a Nortel and start cooking the books. Minimally I predict they will start noodling the books to the maximum allowed by the loosest of accounting standards. Hiding costs and somehow booking future revenues now.

Re:Bye Bye Rim by fat_mike · 2011-10-26 09:48 · Score: 1

I hope they go out of business. We are forced to use them if we want access to enterprise mail/calendar/contacts etc and the standard security policy is to not allow us to install apps. Not even the ones that came bundled with the phone, NOT EVEN THE GPS APP!! It took three weeks to get approval to get that installed. It doesn't help that the phones are just crap to begin with. I replaced my Tour with a Bold with the touchpad and the store swore to me it had OS 6 on it. No it didn't and it bricked itself installing one of the "approved" company apps. I did the whole hook rigamarow to get it back up and working and guess what! Magically OS 6 appeared and about $50 of the apps that I spent hours trying to get approval to install that I purchased myself don't work! What's even better is that Blackberry's App Store (once the OS is upgraded) refuses to acknowledge that you already paid for the apps once and you get to pay for them all over again! Plus about half of them didn't work with OS 6!!!! I freaking hate RIM.

Re:Not surprising... by roscocoltran · 2011-10-26 08:24 · Score: 1

Maybe it's the whole purpose of this lack of apps: To make you captive from the blackberry. They might think that the tablet fashion can lead to more blackberry sales ? don't know, just trying to explain some really bad strategy...

RIM is hopeless by Lieutenant_Dan · 2011-10-26 08:30 · Score: 1

Honestly, I put up a semi-brave fight in controlling the inflow of iDevices into our org because the security functions and management were weak. In hindsight, I was stalling for the Playbook to come and save the day.

The Playbook is a piece of shit, and mostly due to the lack of e-mail support. The fact that a subsquent release still won't have this, shows me that RIM has no fucking clue.

Thanks to them, I've had to re-evaluate our approach in regards to iDevices and put the controls in places. Stuff that I could have dodged had RIM not been as arrogant and actually listened to their clients and looked at what made the iDevices so appealing.

Anyways, the things we put in place for the iDevices will serve us well, but it's things that wouldn't have been necessary if I could use the same operational model with the BB. And to be honest, I no longer care. Heck, I even have an iPhone as my main phone now. Working on a pilot to give staff the option to use personal smartphones in a controlled manner. So the BB days are numbered in our org.

--
Wearing pants should always be optional.

Seriously?! by thadog · 2011-10-26 08:34 · Score: 1

Why don't they just give up already?

Re:Seriously?! by SpiralSpirit · 2011-10-26 09:52 · Score: 1

the CEO and the board feel they can loot a fair bit more money in bonuses and severance pay before jumping ship and letting someone else try and loot money by disassembling the company a la HP.
Re:Seriously?! by CharlyFoxtrot · 2011-10-26 11:13 · Score: 1

"What would I do? I'd shut it down and give the money back to the shareholders." - Michael Dell on Apple in 1997.
Companies can be turned around. Of course the current leadership of RIM have proven they don't have the vision to do so so they should bring in someone who does.

--
If all else fails, immortality can always be assured by spectacular error.

Re:Not surprising... by Pieroxy · 2011-10-26 08:36 · Score: 1

I wish I had mod points. This is so true.

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Write boring code, not shiny code!

A Sticky Wicket by Nom+du+Keyboard · 2011-10-26 08:42 · Score: 1

Well that's a bit of a sticky wicket now isn't it?

--
"It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."

Simply Not True by Mofassa · 2011-10-26 08:44 · Score: 2

RIMs official blog post on their website that is linked to states "bring our...email integration capabilities to the tablet category." Only BBM is being delayed with no view in sight. http://blogs.blackberry.com/2011/10/blackberry-playbook-2-update/

Re:Simply Not True by Blakey+Rat · 2011-10-26 10:09 · Score: 1

Except in April, they said they'd have the email client in 60 days: http://www.engadget.com/2011/04/15/rim-playbook-email-client-very-very-soon-3g-model-this-summe/

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Comment of the year

Article Inaccurate by ShadowFlyP · 2011-10-26 08:46 · Score: 2

The arrival of Playbook OS 2.0 has been put off till February 2012, according to a blog post, which also revealed that the new version will not contain the long-awaited BlackBerry Messenger (BBM) application, which would allow Playbook users to access BlackBerry email without hooking up to a BlackBerry phone.

Whoever wrote this article doesn't understand the difference between BBM and email. RIM has said that BBM is delayed out of the Feb. release and has said nothing about email. BBM and email are two different things.

Re:Article Inaccurate by Lieutenant_Dan · 2011-10-26 08:54 · Score: 1

True, some corps (at least ours) only care about BBM, this is why we got the BB to begin with. If they're not offering it on the Playbook as a standalone soon, then they may as well not bother.
And you're right, it didn't say anything about e-mail. That's not a good omen either.
To be honest when I think of BB, BES = BBM = e-mail. Regular unsafe e-mail doesn't even enter in the picture. That's 95% of its use in our org.

--
Wearing pants should always be optional.

Corporate Malfeasance by AdamJS · 2011-10-26 08:55 · Score: 1

The managers and CEOs really seem like they don't have a clue, and are stuck living in the "Blackberry dominated past"-mindset.

Re:PlayBook Fire Sale by Sporkinum · 2011-10-26 08:59 · Score: 1

I just got my Fire Sale Touchpads I ordered a couple of months ago, and I have to say that WebOS is awesome. HP really shot themselves in the foot with getting rid of them. At $250-$300 they would have sold a ton of them. They were too much at iPad pricing levels though.

There is a rumor going around though, that they may keep making them, but put Windows 8 on them instead.

--
"He's lost in a 'floyd hole"

playbook user right here by ThorGod · 2011-10-26 09:04 · Score: 1

Yes, there isn't a native email application...but who cares? Browse to whatever webmail you're using and you're fine.

(Of course that doesn't work if you're not using something with a web front end. But even my old alma mater has a web front end for its email and it's got 1500 students.)

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PS: I don't reply to ACs.

Re:playbook user right here by shutdown+-p+now · 2011-10-26 09:36 · Score: 1

The point of an email app is so that it can sync message bodies while you have connectivity, and read them when offline (e.g. on the plane). Also, notifications for when new emails come up. Synchronization with contact list in the device. And so on, and so forth... webmail is not an adequate replacement.
Re:playbook user right here by ceoyoyo · 2011-10-26 09:51 · Score: 1

Yeah, because webmail is such a wonderful user experience, even on a full size screen with a mouse and keyboard where it's DESIGNED to be used.
Seriously, not having an e-mail client is inexcusable and "just use webmail!" is about as silly as when Jobs said "just use web apps!" Except Jobs was either kidding or realized his mistake and fixed it.
Re:playbook user right here by MachineShedFred · 2011-10-27 00:18 · Score: 1

It also doesn't work if you're a corporation that has to comply with Safe Harbor regulations, which is kind of the point. The corporation is RIM's customer, and they aren't delivering anything close to what the customer needs.

--
Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
Re:playbook user right here by sglewis100 · 2011-10-27 04:14 · Score: 1

Yes, there isn't a native email application...but who cares? Browse to whatever webmail you're using and you're fine.
(Of course that doesn't work if you're not using something with a web front end. But even my old alma mater has a web front end for its email and it's got 1500 students.)
How's that work when I'm not in WiFi range. Or when I need to look up a number quickly? How do calendar alerts pop up?

Re:PlayBook Fire Sale by ThorGod · 2011-10-26 09:07 · Score: 1

Yes, I can see how owning a no longer supported by anyone tablet with an OS with NO FUTURE is preferable to an "also ran" that still has a company behind it.

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PS: I don't reply to ACs.

Re:Wrong Wrong Wrong Wrong - it will have email by delirium28 · 2011-10-26 09:12 · Score: 1

They did this time, unfortunately. It was eWeek that actually says that BBM == enterprise email.

"...revealed that the new version will not contain the long-awaited BlackBerry Messenger (BBM) application, which would allow Playbook users to access BlackBerry email without hooking up to a BlackBerry phone."

--
Who is John Galt?

Incorrectly tagged by Sez+Zero · 2011-10-26 09:20 · Score: 1

I believe the "facepalm" tag is missing from this story.

Re:Incorrectly tagged by shutdown+-p+now · 2011-10-26 09:37 · Score: 1

It was a facepalm back when they first released PlayBook in its current shape. I don't know how this can be described by now, other than saying that BB seems to be paying meticulous attention to tying the noose right before kicking off the chair...

Waiting for the $99 blowout during bankruptcy by Al+in+SoCal · 2011-10-26 09:32 · Score: 1

Guess we have to wait until RIM files for BK before this loser of a tablet goes for what it's worth - about 99 bucks. Though better than HP's but not by much. Same messed up path that HP went down - wrong OS, wrong features, wrong everything.

Web app not good enough by unimacs · 2011-10-26 09:45 · Score: 1

Messaging is supposed to be RIM's forte. You would expect the Playbook to not only have a messaging app, but one with compelling features the others don't have, -whether their security related or otherwise.

A web app, which more than likely was designed primarily for desktop use, is a poor substitute.

When the iPhone first came out, a lot of people in our office wanted to be able to get their Lotus Notes email on it. IBM promised a native client, but it never came (not really their fault). What did happen though was the addition of ActiveSync compatibility with the iPhone email client. This let a lot of other email systems like Gmail and Exchange in the door. Unfortunately, there's still hoops to jump through to get Notes to sync with an iPhone (or Android device). Guess what email system will probably be gone in the next 6 months?

Notes does have a smart phone optimized web app and it's not bad, but it's not as good as using the native app.

Email IS coming, read the press release. by therapyreject · 2011-10-26 09:52 · Score: 2

The linked site states "the new version will not contain the long-awaited BlackBerry Messenger (BBM) application, which would allow Playbook users to access BlackBerry email without hooking up to a BlackBerry phone." That isn't what BlackBerry Messenger does, the linked site is full of crap and has no clue what they're talking about. OS 2.0 will have email, but no BBM. Read the press release. http://blogs.blackberry.com/2011/10/blackberry-playbook-2-update/

Re:Developement Cycles by captaindomon · 2011-10-26 09:53 · Score: 1

I can tell you wrote that comment in an agile fashion, as quickly as possible, without pausing to review, edit, or even spell check it.

--
Just because I can hook a shark from a boat, I do no offer to wrestle it in the water.

Re:Not sure what the problem is by ceoyoyo · 2011-10-26 09:53 · Score: 1

A Playbook isn't a tablet, it's a bigger screen for your Blackberry. Except it's SOLD as a tablet, and it's trying to compete against tablets that can actually function without another device.

You seem to confuse "integration" and "dependence."

Re:Developement Cycles by Murdoch5 · 2011-10-26 09:57 · Score: 1

No, I wrote it because thats the truth. But you just showed the fall of traditional method's, document the problem but not actually fix anything :-).

Coffin nails by poifull · 2011-10-26 09:57 · Score: 1

Coffin nail number 1: the dying BlackBerry
Coffin nail number 2: PlayBook
What's going to finish RIM?

Re:Coffin nails by bedouin · 2011-10-27 06:01 · Score: 1

I think last week's fiasco pounded the final nail in at least halfway.

As long as they keep giving out free tablets @ GDC by b0r1s · 2011-10-26 10:43 · Score: 1

As long as they keep giving out free tablets to developers at GDC, they can delay it as long as they want.

--
Mooniacs for iOS and Android

Out of touch by 93+Escort+Wagon · 2011-10-26 11:25 · Score: 1

RIM was already losing market share, hand over fist, to Android and iOS for some time. Then along comes the iPad, and RIM's executives apparently decide they can jump into that space AND force a resurgence in Blackberry phone sales by requiring their new tablet to tether to a Blackberry phone in order to do anything particularly useful.

Since the Playbook was intended specifically to require a Blackberry - why is anyone surprised at this delay? In my mind, the only question is whether this is actually a technical problem or just continued intransigence on the part of RIM executives.

Actually, there is a bigger question - why do those RIM executives still have jobs? Their whole decision-making process demonstrated both blazing stupidity and being absurdly out of touch with reality.

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#DeleteChrome

Re:Out of touch by UnknowingFool · 2011-10-26 16:02 · Score: 1

I think it was a technical problem. RIMM promised email by summer 2011 so it appears they rushed the PlayBook out before it was done.

--
Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.

Re:Not surprising... by Flyerman · 2011-10-26 14:59 · Score: 1

Okay, I'm posting right here, where it could get read.

I own a Playbook. It came with the only two apps I currently use: Word to go and Kobo Books. I look forward(very, very far forward) to the day that I can actually receive email on the damn thing. Since I have my BB fully encrypted, I have to enter the encryption password on the BB, and then the PB, in order to view email. For now, I will continue using it to read books and doc files without having to carry my netbook around an office, or deal with it's keyboard/touchpad.

I like it's size and some of the gestures they've cooked up for it, I find it very usable. It is unfortunate that it will be doomed to nothingness. I could have been considered a BB fanboy at one point, indeed, even now I know more than anyone should about installing, migrating and maintaining BES. But I have accepted what will come, and it is unfortunate. The OS is clean and crisp, but I'm sure when it hits phone it will be disgusting, and no developers will ever approach the fractured device ecosystem that is BB.

If you want a tablet, either get an iPad or try an Android. The PB is dead in the water, and RIM's future as well.

And yet..... by DG · 2011-10-26 15:17 · Score: 1

I have a Blackberry. I love it (as much as anyone can love a phone) And I'm also somewhat sensitive to choosing the wrong platform, being a former Amiga guy.

For all the talk of RIMs demise, around here (Toronto) in my informal survey of people I see with phones, BlackBerries dominate. I ride the TTC a fair bit, and I have never seen an iPhone on the TTC. Never. I've seen a couple of Android phones, but BlackBerries I see by the dozens. And not just in the hands of government or corporate types - I mean the kids too.

I've tried very hard to avoid self-selection bias so it's not just fanboi recognition - I think it's real data (for as much worth as it is)

DG

--
Want to learn about race cars? Read my Book

Re:And yet..... by sglewis100 · 2011-10-27 03:23 · Score: 1

I have a Blackberry. I love it (as much as anyone can love a phone) And I'm also somewhat sensitive to choosing the wrong platform, being a former Amiga guy.
For all the talk of RIMs demise, around here (Toronto) in my informal survey of people I see with phones, BlackBerries dominate. I ride the TTC a fair bit, and I have never seen an iPhone on the TTC. Never. I've seen a couple of Android phones, but BlackBerries I see by the dozens. And not just in the hands of government or corporate types - I mean the kids too.
I've tried very hard to avoid self-selection bias so it's not just fanboi recognition - I think it's real data (for as much worth as it is)
DG
With all due respect... it's just hard to imagine you've NEVER SEEN an iPhone on the Toronto subway system, if you're really surveying that much. I could no more believe that, than believe the Blackberry tablet truly has no email client.
Re:And yet..... by DG · 2011-10-27 22:47 · Score: 1

I honestly have never seen an iPhone there.
Plenty of iPods... but no phone.
There were a couple of times I thought I saw one, but they turned out to be Droid phones.
Now they are undoubtedly around - my bubble of "phone awareness" doesn't encompass the whole train after all. I'm not claiming that "nobody has one". But the density seems low; whereas the BB density is universally high.
DG

--
Want to learn about race cars? Read my Book

Precisely the point I'd imagine by LostMyBeaver · 2011-10-26 20:41 · Score: 1

I am pretty much a hater when it comes to the MVC model of programming as is it is employed forced upon developers in Symbian and am I did not like the Microsoft MFC version of it either. I don't like the Apple Cocoa methods of handling MVC either. BUT!!!! In general, the separation of model from view and controller (also known as the user interface components) is a great idea... particularly when coding in an object oriented language where you don't have to work hard to make this happen.

So, if you happen to be working on a platform that is primarily written in Java as is Blackberry everything, it is simple to imagine that a group of talented UI developers should be able to make at least a simple messenger client quite quickly. Then the nerdy guys in the driver lab can develop the hardware encryption engine in parallel. Let us not forget that there is nothing that can be implemented in hardware that can't also be implemented in software. Encryption code IS NOT that hard to implement. Nearly all encryption functions can be done in relatively little code. So, to let the UI developers make a new UI for the libraries, an internal version of the encryption engine can be hacked together in software while the driver guys sort out the hardware side of it.

All in all.... starting with just the Blackberry phone messaging client and getting a playbook version up SHOULD NOT be a huge issue.

Now, if the parent poster to yours is correct at any level, it could be an issue that the servers are unable to support multiple messaging clients on the same account in parallel. If this is the case... WOW!!! What a piece of shit!.

...or by fingers1122 · 2011-10-26 23:25 · Score: 1

PlayBook users will only be able to do BlackBerry email on their tablets by linking with a BlackBerry phone, for the foreseeable future."

Or by using a browser.

Re:Yuck by sglewis100 · 2011-10-27 03:32 · Score: 1

That Toshiba device just made me vomit in my own mouth.

Its everything wrong with mobile devices.

As much I wanted to dislike the iPad it won me over. Its not perfect (I would like different profiles for my wife and me), but its pretty damned good.

I've also ordered a Kindle Fire because it is a media consumption device. You may not realize it, but Amazon just made itself kind of distribution in the digital world. The bits and pieces didn't seem to fit until now you have unlimited music, video, books and web access inside a tiny package.

I suspect almost everybody (well, except you) gets it and won't be returning it because its not an iPad. They'll probably own both.

I ordered a Fire as well, and think it will complement my iPad quite well, and probably replace my older Kindle, since LCD screens don't seem to bother me when I'm reading, but 10" tablets are a touch too big somtimes late at night when reading.

Specs are irrelevant. I know this is Slashdot, and we love them... but I would trade my iPad 2 for an iPad 1 before any other Android Tablet. Nobody ever complains they are sluggish, and as devices, they serve the role they need to. I dispute those who say they are ONLY for media consumption, but the reality is, they ARE PRIMARILY for media consumption. An iPad is great for apps, games, music, movies, TV shows, book reading, etc.

Amazon is the only one with the ecosystem to attract the type of people who are attracted to the iPad. Amazon can supply not just apps, but TV shows, movies, music, etc. If I bought an ASUS tablet, which app can I use to buy and download last night's episode of XYZ?

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