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Official "Firefox With Bing" Released
MrSeb writes "Mozilla is now distributing a version of Firefox that uses Bing as the default search provider instead of Google. Rest assured that this is a joint project, though: the creatively-named Firefox with Bing website is run by Microsoft, and both Mozilla and MS are clear that this is a joint venture. Now, don't get too excited — the default version of Firefox available from Mozilla.com is still backed by Google, and there's no mention of an alternative, Bingy download anywhere on the site — but it's worth noting that Mozilla has been testing Bing's capabilities using Test Pilot over the last couple of months, and the release of Firefox with Bing indicates that Mozilla is now confident in Bing's ability to provide a top-notch service to Firefox users. Mozilla might be readying a large-scale switch to Bing when its current contract with Google expires in November."
Bing actually is a good service. It's nothing like Live search previously, and they really worked to make it good. And this against the fact that Google has access to great amount of usage statistics. Search engines isn't about just algorithm - it's mostly about using data against those algorithms. And when you have a monopoly in search, you have access to much more data than your competitors, ultimately requiring them to spend much more effort, money and power to compete than the position you are in. This is also why Google collects so much data, from the links you choose in search results. If you've done your research, you notice they use javascript to show the real url in your status bar, but the links still go via Google or do a request in the background to log that info. It helps them collect that info and it makes them have a major power over their competitors.
Now, Bing and Microsoft actually went out and started fighting them, from a seriously underpowered position. And it's great they do, because otherwise Google would be the only search provider in the western world.
This is also the reason why Google is struggling in non-western world like China and Russia. They didn't get there by the time internet got wider usage, so they cannot get market share now.
Firefox with Google as default is a "join project" too. Mozilla depends on almost completely on revenue coming from Google. And unlike Slashdotters think, it's not a "here, take some money and make a great open source browser!". Firefox has (or, had) the market share required and Google wanted to be the default engine so they get users. And they pay a share of revenue generated by those Firefox. Just like Ubuntu, Fedora and other free Linux distros to generate their revenue. Not that's there's anything wrong with that, but usually Slashdotters try to somehow glorify Google. It's business as usual.
Personally, I use StartPage / IXQUICK because it's European and values my privacy more.
You just lower the bar.
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
I thought they merely skinned Google and called it their own?
Thanks so much. I keep teetering between a full blown switch to Chrome or staying with Firefox. You've finally helped me decide :) Thank you so much, Chrome here I come.
I don't get the whole point of this version.
Is it some mix of Anti-Google, so "we must go to Bing, which somehow is related to former Yahoo Search?"
What about the third party providers, ones who could use the traffic metrics? Ask.com comes to mind. Or StartPage that (supposedly) doesn't record your ip address. Or DuckDuckGo. Or something.
Why are there only like 12 players in all of Tech?
My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
I'd much rather see a version of Firefox that used DuckDuckGo by default (http://ddg.gg)
.. or that MicroSoft wrote a decent check to Mozilla to start distributing Firefox with Bing as well.
Attitudes make the difference between Space and Time: we want to MAX our temporal, and MIN our spatial extension.
I set mine to duckduckgo. I'm pretty happy.
Democracy Now! - your daily, uncensored, corporate-free
But when that competitor is Microsoft the metagame changes. MS is famous for doing a little of everything, so they're always Fourth in a market, trying to look like "underdogs" while they still have the fading WinOffice monopoly.
My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
Just like Google then. And actually Bing users tend to be from more wealthier demographics than most Google users, so it does make business sense to them.
Just as I was reading this summary, Firefox popped up with a "could not sync" message. Methinks other things are more pressing than partnering with Microsoft.
Folks who love Microsoft products but not IE? People who don't trust Google with their search data but think it's safe with Bing? Who would want this?
Every move that Mozilla has made lately has done nothing but piss off their long-time users.
First it was not fixing the memory usage and performance problems that have plagued Firefox for years now. This is something that users keep begging Mozilla to fix, but it never happens. Firefox is always slower than Chrome, Safari, Opera and now even the more recent versions of IE!
Then there are the Firefox UI changes they've made with recent releases that only make it so much harder to use Firefox. Please bring back the menus! Please bring back the status bar! Please show the protocol in the URL bar again! Please reverse any design decision made by a so-called "UI designer". They don't help usability! Hell, even Thunderbird has been affected by this crap.
Recently they went all silly with the version numbering and the release schedules. Now Firefox is unusable for enterprise users, and home users are getting damn confused with what version they are using or should be using. It doesn't help that extensions break very often now, too.
Now there's this Bing nonsense.
Why does Mozilla go out of their way to ignore their users? Why do they go out of their way to mess with these projects that don't actually fix any of the serious problems that users point out time and time again, for years and years?
My guess is this is a shot across the bow of Google. Letting Google know that it's pretty easy for them to switch the default search traffic to Bing is just good business. I'm sure Microsoft is going to be bidding pretty heavily to get Firefox's search user base.
In the end it's just going to keep Google honest and make sure they pay a fair price for the search traffic Firefox sends them. I think Google pays something like $60 or $70 million a year for all the Firefox user searches. That's chump change to someone like Google. I suspect after this, the next contract renewal might be a higher number.
Phew! I had seriously doubted that Microsoft had a hand in this.
Mozilla and MS are clear that this is a joint venture
RIP Mozilla
To Firefox
To Ubuntu
DuckDuckGo is more in line with Mozilla's Manifesto in that it:
I must admit I haven't really used Bing much until I read this article. Just as a test today I set my default search engine to Bing and it's surprisingly decent! It's a very decent alternative to Google now. Seeing as Microsoft loses money on search I don't mind using it either.
With Google being as big as it is, and having it's finger in EVERYTHING, makes me nervous. Having a viable alternative just serves to keep them honest.
I find your lack of faith ... disturbing!
Yeah, you just made that up. Or did your PR department tell you to write that?
Those who can, do. Those who can't, sue.
I love google as a company. I love android, I love gmail, and I love google calendar. I use and heavily rely on all three.
However google's search engine as of recent is very disappointing, largely as a result of a few so called "fixes."
Google recently did away with the ability to add + before a word to prevent from using synonyms for that word, so when you want to do a literal search for anything, you MUST surround it in quotes. Very annoying.
I've been finding that as of late, google appears to be omitting some kewords from my search. The page summary doesn't include some of the words, and worse is that when you go to the page, and hit ctrl-f, you can't even find one of the omitted keyword! Frustrating as hell.
The most annoying, is when you type a search term with google instant, and sometimes when you arrow back to inline edit your search while instant is coming up, or if you accidentally move the mouse over one of the search suggestions, it removes your original search and replaces it with one of the search suggestions, causing you to have to re-type the whole thing! And turning off google instant isn't a reliable solution, because when you lose the cookie, or move to a computer that doesn't have one, you have to go and turn it off again.
I've been using bing lately and thankfully it doesn't suffer from these problems. I'd like to go back to google, but until they can solve these problems I'll be using bing for a while.
Careful with names containing L slashdot.org/~AiphaWolf_HK slashdot.org/~AlphaWoif_HK slashdot.org/~AiphaWoif_HK
Who cares which 'default' they ship releases with, it really isn't hard to change anyway. Besides theres better alternatives out there which don't track your every move: https://duckduckgo.com/
I wouldn't use Bing even if they were the last search engine and the alternative was Alta Vista or gopher....
Well that explains why my search engine changed. It looks like Firefox did a drive by update over night and switched my settings. I have tried Bing, but wasn't that impressed with it. I still find Google gives me better results. And that, after all, is what counts when using a search engine.
This story would've bothered me a year ago, but I doubt that we'll be seeing "Chrome powered by Bing" any time soon. #techhipsterism
I think it clearly indicates that they are willing to take Microsoft's money to distribute a product with different defaults, I don't think its all that clear that it means anything more.
Becoming the default search engine on a secondary version of another browser with a declining market share. Is MS trying to implode or are they just clueless?
make imaginary.friends COUNT=100 VISIBLE=false
I don't get this. My Google-defaulted Mozilla makes it really easy to switch to Bing. It's right there in the pulldown list, which is way more than I can say for IE, which is supposed to make it easy to switch from the Bing default to another search engine, but which acutally puts you through some pretty tricky hoops to install another search engine from an MS website. When I tried it on a co-worker's machine, it wouldn't install (either because their IE version wasn't compatible or because the machine was locked down in such a way that prevented it. Anyway, the fact that Mozilla already offers a trivially easy way to switch says a lot about how important the built in default is. So there you go. Microsoft knows the built in default is vitally important, uses it in IE to boost Bing - way more so than Mozilla boosts Google, and still is willing to pay for default placement in Firefox. Wasn't there an antitrust suit?
Posted from my Android phone. Oh, I can change this? There, that's better...
So switch the default provider to a shittier search engine! Brilliant!
Jason-Palmer.com
Just like Google then. And actually Bing users tend to be from more wealthier demographics than most Google users, so it does make business sense to them.
If true, you should have no trouble backing up that claim with some verifiable data.
Go on... we're waiting.
Google has allowed a good business model to be corrupted by greed. F Google. Google's search engine sucks nowadays. It searches crap, it produces crap. It doesn't understand even/especially a site like "Nextag" is THE FING PROBLEM. Google has allowed global private equity investment firms to run their business. Google has already been pwned and it doesn't even know it.
Users can set whatever search engine they want, this has nothing to do with "Bing's abilities". The biggest income of browser developers comes from search sites paying to be default. In this case, Microsoft payed more than Google.
i've used mozilla stuff since 2002. i used mozilla then pheonix then firefox. i was around for the good and the bad but this tears it. seriously, it seems like 2011 is the year of bat shit crazy decisions over at mozilla. nay, 2011 is the year of bat shit crazy decisions at mozilla. all mozilla has done lately is follow everything chrome does and now this! what is this, google envy?
the people steering mozilla need a swift kick in the pants because they are acting like a drunken bard out on sunset boulevard. (i would like to apologize to all the drunken bards on sunset boulevard that i may have offended.)
Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
There isn't anything wrong with Bing as far as I can tell. Works for me.
Since they are not updating IE any-more for the 10 year old but still widely used Windows XP they should just release a re branded version of Firefox as "IE 10" so they don't have to worry about updating IE any more. Firefox is not the enemy of Microsoft any more (ever since they have been sending cakes) Google and Chrome is.
MS wants and needs people using Bing, and shipping it with Thunderbird, especially with the blunt name, is a very good way to get people using their service. And it's not like it's a bad service for most users, it's only that they're used to Google and like that so why change? But put Bing in front of them and they'll use that as happily.
I have a lot of disrespect for MS but they're not all stupid. They don't care about being an OS company, they care about being the biggest tech firm. Google has shown them the future - own the biggest dynamic database on individuals. MS has to spread Bing to get in there. This Firefox deal is easy traction in their campaign to spread Bing.
As far as competition for IE, that's trivial. It's about having people Using Microsoft. MS would like best to have people using IE and Bing, but having people use FF and Bing is better than IE and Google.
For FF, well either partner is a fox in the hen-house because they're both browser companies. FF will have to take exactly the same precautions about relying on funds from either. MS may be historically more aggressive and tactless than Google, but even with Google it's still a Rubbers Required position.
"Sorry, this download is not supported by your system."
Both Firefox and Bing work on Linux. However, this partnership between MS and Mozilla seems to leave Firefox with Bing without support for Linux.
(Not that I would download it if it were available...)
What scares me is the possibility that you honestly believe that anyone who doesn't bear hatred for Microsoft is somehow being paid to hold that opinion. It speaks to an arrogance I find astonishing.
Slashdot - where whining about luck is the new way to make the world you want.
Interesting that every time something comes out that vilifies Microsoft you have the same group of cronies out trying to deny it with the same tired, false, disproven arguments that hopes people reading them have horribly short memories or reading comprehension problems.
Bing has continually been proven to leech off of Google's search results, yet the same group of paid Microsoft FUDspreaders continue to deny and attack the truth with their campaign of lies and deceit.
Microsoft has proven itself to be a company that cannot compete technologically, instead stealing, borrowing, or buying existing technology to poorly implement a shiny turd that it can sell to people that don't know any better. It's time to expose Microsoft as the frauds they really are, and force them to compete on equal footing, where if they don't change their ways, they will wither and die. I don't want to see that, really -- I believe if Microsoft focused its energy on actual competition by creating quality products, it would be truly a good thing for all concerned. But as it is, Microsoft is only concerned with sales and marketing, using the usual deceit and false promises that come with that territory to sell their inferior goods. It's really sad.
Posting as AC because sadly this will be seen as a troll by some and modded down with any MS viral marketer that happens to have mod points, and I value my karma.
Wealthier people tend to be more gullible and clueless when it comes to technology -- believing Microsoft products are intrinsically better because they're payware and not freeware, for example. Their initial instincts are to scorn Firefox and to trust IE6. Idiots, you might call them.
I, like you, have not chosen to provide a citation for my claims. Obvious claims need no reinforcing evidence, amirite?
Firefox is suffering from a decline in market share, over fixable technical issues, massive memory leaks, and you spend your time making firefox with bing? Not to mention that the last few releases have been nothing but cheap knock offs of chrome. I want my browser back!
"People don't want to learn linux" hasn't been a valid excuse since '03.
What kind of massive development effort do you think it takes for Mozilla to set the default search provider to Bing that it will literally take away from fixing "massive" memory leaks and "technical issues"? Should they just say to hell with it and take whatever scraps Google offers them and lay off half their developers because Google doesn't want to pay them much for the next contract?
You must live in some kind of utopian version of reality to think that they shouldn't have to run their organization like a business.
And for the record, every piece of complex software has issues, but all in all, as a user of Firefox since the pre-1.0 days, I can say without a doubt that Ffx 7 is the most stable, capable and highest performing release to date. Maybe you should consider upgrading from 3.5 at some point...
Or maybe is the Debian vs Mozilla trademark issue that makes Firefox with Bing not support my Squeeze box?
If Microsoft did this and made a corporate friendly version, we'd be all over it. Give us something like FrontMotion and a lot of people would be happy. This is just the Bing crew paying Mozilla to produce a Bing enabled version.
As opposed to Google which is the main source of revenue for Mozilla. The point is that diversification is good, it was always somewhat of a risk to be getting that large a portion of total revenue from a competitor.
If true, bye bye Firefox... (for me & my relatives)
Yes, let's. I'm a butt hair away from wiping Firefox from my life. Bing is junk that must be forced on people. We use Google because it works and always has. There is no reason to use Bing. Google may have some black marks on them but nothing compared to the declining Microsoft and their childish practices. There are some good people that work at Microsoft. Unfortunately they are hemmed in by the over riding crap ass government-like culture of isolated departments and divisions that is Microsoft. For all the good things that have come from Microsoft the same things would have emanated from humans anyway. When it is all said and done Microsoft will be noted as a sad lament in the history of technology--nothing more.
I object to power without constructive purpose. --Spock
So, this is the FF 'permanent fix' for Google Instant?
If so.. I give it a 7/10 - worth trying to protect users from the utter crap that is Instant.
I can't say I like M$, I can't say I've really used Bing, but I could really get to hating google if this continues.
If google don't stop messing with their front page they are going to lose a lot more people.
I would not be surprised if Bing took over from Google as the default. If google continues on this path.. I might even welcome it.
You have a sick, twisted mind. Please subscribe me to your newsletter.
hopefully next release the icon will change to the firefox with a big gold necklace of somesort
...always looking for another dog to tie bricks to the head of...
Mozilla decided Firefox needed some more bing. You know, be getto and all. Gangsta. (Anybody starting to see a pattern of dropped letters here?)
Unity? Screw that: XFCE. Slashdot Beta? Screw that: SoylentNews. Australis? Screw that: Pale Moon. UX developers DIAF
Bing sucks. (That's a period at the end of the previous statement.)
This is a hacked account, for which the owner can not be held responsible.
about:config -> browser.urlbar.trimURLs = false
Boom, done. Was that so hard to Google?
Read TechLA's history he is an obvious shrill.
That's all.
how is babby formed?
OMG the FF people are SO naive. This is probably the beginning of the end for FF, though lately it has started to fall apart anyway. Looks like it will be a Chrome and Opera world after all.
You know why they're doing this, right? For years, the only thing that has really made Mozilla Corp. any money is their Google partnership. In fact, they got a little greedy over the years because of it, and have really whored Firefox out with lots of changes primarily to lure in people, and rushed out versions to look competitive with other browsers (sometimes even dropping features just to meet unnecessarily rushed release dates), to the point that they turned it into the same bloated mess which was the origin of the product to begin with (breaking away from the bloated Mozilla Suite). And their users noticed, and they complained. Mozilla mostly ignored those people at first, giving this and that bogus reason, until it actually started to affect their dollar signs, so they put some effort towards cleaning up their mess of code a bit.
But the point is, Google has Chrome now. They don't really need to keep Mozilla afloat anymore with partnerships if they took a notion to. So Mozilla is scared of losing their allowance from big daddy Google. Instead, they've gotten in bed with the company which they trained people to hate for years to keep the money coming in.
I know that sounds harsh and trolling, but it's also the sad reality of what Mozilla Corp. has become. They've done a good job of turning their own user base against them so far, to the point that most of the people I know have already dumped it for Opera or Chrome. So let's see how this new partnership works out for what's left of their users.
So I guess they bumped the version number up because of this major change.
Finally, a version of Firefox that will give me search results for hiybbprqag...
Well, that's it then. I have used Firefox since it was Phoenix. Kind of makes me sad but anything Microsoft touches quickly turns to crap and its no use hanging on and watch the trainwreck. Bye old friend.
HTTP/1.1 400
A separate release with just a different default search engine?
That's like creating an Ubuntu derivative with the only difference being a different wallpaper.
This raises the question: when do we get an "open" open-source* search engine?
*one we have the source-code to, so we know that our search results are genuine; and also one we can rely on for not sharing our thoughts with other parties.
If Pandora's box is destined to be opened, *I* want to be the one to open it.
With Google now producing its own browser with a fair marketshare, I think Mozilla made a huge blunder here... I think it will be byebye FF soon, when Google cuts it off from its money. Maybe MS can fund them, but why would they? Once IE is firmly integrated into the next Win version, who's going to bother with FF?
When Firefox sets Bing as it's default search engine I will drop Firefox completely without a blink. Microsoft is still too dominant as a player in the (desktop) pc market to become too friendly with it.
I'm glad they found something important to work on so they wouldn't have to waste their time plugging memory leaks...
Simply place all search engines on one page.
If anything isn't perfectly to your liking, save the page, and modify it until it does.
>Mozilla might be readying a large-scale switch to Bing when its current contract with Google expires in November.
Why would you replace a best of search engine with a barely adequate search engine that ranks lower, unless you have been paid off by that company to host their product. Mozilla will make more money because they are getting paid instead of paying for this service. Might as well buy up some FF stocks right now, the company will have a boost in their next quarter(s)
"I Binged your sister last night!" "Your girlfriend Bings nearly everything she sees."
Google is famous for posting on tech forums like this. Who's to say you and everyone modding you up aren't Google employees?
Don't worry, when they release Firefox EleventyBillion sometime next week, they'll be back to Google only.
Wouldn't "Firefox with Bing for Workgroups" sounds more like a Redmond product ?
Firefox download becomes a page 50 search term. With everything but links to firefox and failzilla appearing when you search for it.
The first part is quite easy. I guarantee I am not ... yet... a Google Employee.
For the second part, can I put you down as a reference that you think I would be a good fit there? If you're right, they'd like me. I could use a change of scenery. And better Mexican food.
My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine