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Schools In Portugal Moving To OSS
New submitter thyristor pt writes "In light of massive national budget cuts, the Portuguese government will force public schools to move to free/open source software (Google translation of original in Portuguese). Schools with some 50,000 outdated computers won't see their software licenses renewed, the main reason being the cost of hardware upgrade inherent to mostly Microsoft software updates. Will the Euro debt crisis be a driving force to the spread of open source software?"
We've seen this over and over again. Microsoft will just offer to give the software for free. They know that it's not in their best interest for it to become general knowledge how functional open-source alternative have become.
If they're actually serious I applaud them. However forcing both a change of platform/infrastructure is not going to work well without changing the support staff. A bunch of Microsoft monkeys simply can't handle the transition. The biggest roadblock besides having to replace support staff is surely the culture change.
Could this be a ploy to force Microsoft to come to the "rescue"?
Will the Euro debt crisis be a driving force to the spread of open source software?"
Not likely. Everywhere else money has been a problem, it has caused the spread of piracy. Open Source can only spread by being objectively better (in ways customers care about).
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
The article says they're switching to free software, not open source. Unfortunately the only reason seems to be not wanting to pay for it, but, still, people will become more used to GNU/Linux so this can't be a bad thing.
...that the only licences they ARE renewing is for servers, because Linux is "not feasible" for them!
Free And Good Enough is wonderful, but what are they sacrificing? I'm not going to stand on the MS makes great stuff - I'm 25 years in this industry, and my only windows exposure is trying to repair and troubleshoot family and friends computers (damn you Apple, why didn't you get your game on 10 years earlier).
Every time I'm confronted with linux distros, I'm stuck with that odd sort of feeling like when your 5 year old makes breakfast for you. It isn't about the quality of the breakfast.
Here, Canada, its ass-pain because the schools have bought into weird SAS solutions, that are mainly MS focused. I guess they aren't paying attention to what Uni/College students are buying. That said, these solutions aren't half bad (nor half good), but what does it leave country X with? Sorry, we have no e-learning tools because we weren't forward looking enough to demand standards, and our pocket books can't afford the minimal requirements.
It isn't a good news story. A good news story is:
Country X selected Linux because it kicks ass!
The rest is just kinda sad.
Free as in software, not free as in support. Who is going to migrate this? I think their MS admins are probably just waiting for an opportunity like this.
Unfortunately the only reason seems to be not wanting to pay for it
whats unfortunate about it. half of the reason we invented free software, was because we wanted people to use software for free and in abundance.
Read radical news here
As listed, this only applies to outdated computers made between 2004-2007. Namely, Pentium 4's, Pentium D's, and perhaps some Core 2's from 4-7 years ago.
But as the article states: "A lot of these devices, given their age, will not be in good working order and does not support the latest versions of Microsoft products."
Most IT Departments in school systems have been switching to Windows 7 as a cost-cutting measure, not just because XP security updates expire in 2 years. The deployment tools on Server 2008 R2 for Win7 are insanely excellent. One can pull a central server to a distant school just once from a PXE boot, and it will peer-to-peer on the local network, rather than download a ~10GB file 30 times. Any additional drivers, software, and updates can be installed on the spot -- think Ninite, except before the installation. Doing things like installing XP from Ghost and babysitting the systems for an hour are obsolete, as is the staffing required for it.
But Windows 7 requires 1-2GB of RAM to run properly depending on software installed. With the crisis in the EU (PIIGS especially), it's very unlikely that they'll spend the money to buy DDR1/DDR2 to upgrade systems that don't. A 7-year old system is going to have hardware problems that low staffing can't troubleshoot, to the point where they won't even bother. And they certainly won't have the staffing required to take the time to set up an OSS system, much less train their staff on it, as it was only "recommended."
At best, someone might set up the ability to install Edubuntu through PXE boot, but they'll just be Edubuntu systems, nothing more. Some kids might play around on them at times, but otherwise, these old systems are just going to collect dust.
Gah, typos, it's late.
* Did not mean to insinuate Core2's were 7 years old, just the range of CPUs would be 4-7 years old.
* "One can pull an image from a central server"
It is galling that despite free software having become the industry standard on the web, being demonstrably more reliable and secure than Microsoft products and more flexible and configurable than Apple products, people consider it chiefly as the low-cost option. They shouldn't use Linux because it's free, they should be using it because it's better.
This is a problem because any information infrastructure, even a Linux-based one, will suck if you don't have the funding to afford enough hardware and support. As long as only schools with gutted IT budgets use Linux, Linux will retain an awful reputation among schools. The circular effect is that schools will avoid using it as long as they can afford outrageous license prices, and even schools with Linux will abandon it immediately if they ever gain enough funding to move back (combined with Microsoft giving them a sweeter deal on license packages). This will in turn reinforce the image of free software as a cheap alternative that should only be used if you can't afford commercial software.
Yes, in the grand tradition of Slashdot, I posted without reading TFA.
One wonders if somewhere in Redmond someone is trying to figure out how to get some mutation of Windows CE or Windows Phone 7 to install on old computers like the ones here, in order to try to stop this phenomenon.
Or perhaps Microsoft will even offer to subsidize the cost of newer hardware while developing an answer?
uh, yeah, think bootp circa 1989.
Its an interesting phrase "to run properly"; I'm sure that one day there will be a Windows that "runs properly". The real question is, can Windows 7 run properly?
This government don't want to spend money in education, is cutting everything, from class hours to teachers, 30 thousand will be fired over the next two years.
They just found that primary sector is the way... and it might be, with all the resources, from ore to fishing.
But the ugly truth is that they don't want to buy new computers, and by doing so, they are just saying this as a show off.
Microsoft Portugal at the end of the day won't notice a glitch with their money flow, in fact, most of computers have double license. (OEM from manufacturers and Volume Licensing from MS.)
Also, lot of schools already use Linux.
I have some questions that are troubling me with this.
"Schools with some 50,000 outdated computers won't see their software licenses renewed, the main reason being the cost of hardware upgrade inherent to mostly Microsoft software updates"
Why do they have to update the computers OS and software any way?
Is there a change in the curriculum that needs the software update?
Do they have to switch to a new version of Windows when the old one reaches it's end of life? If so why?
I work in a major supermarket chain that uses at least 5 computers per store all tied into a main office main frame. These are very old HP P4's running XP. They run Windows based, linux based, even java and flash based programs within XP depending on need, and I doubt they'll get upgraded in the next 10 maybe even 20 years. There's really no need, they preform as well now as they did new.
So what's the overwhelming need that's driving this decision?
If Microsoft gives away the license to run it's software, why is it rescinding it now? It's not like it's costing them money either way. Unless they think that students will demand Win 7/8 at home if they have it at school which is stupid. I can only see that driving a very very small percentage of sales.
I'm thinking this is political rhetoric more then anything else. "We've totally boinked our economy, but see we'll make it better by using Open Source "free" software" Meanwhile there's all the added cost of migrating. It's one thing in a government with constantly shifting priorities, but in a public school system? I might be wrong but I really don't see the need to do anything in all this.
Certainly the economic troubles have a role here. But I'm frankly pessimist about said outcome.
Let's see why:
- Portugal is sadly often enough a testing bed for microsoft-based techs. In regards to the enterprise microsoft in portugal has alot of power. Until some years ago most of linux users I've met tend to came from an university background. Check the statistics in regards to browser/email/operative system as opposed to the rest of europe and you'll often see said effect.
- Most school netbooks are dual-boot linux/xp. Guess which one kids tend to choose from.
- Plenty of enterprises typically buy a copy or a single computer (usually windows comes pre-installed on most purchases), then carry on and simply shamelessly use a pirated cd to update whatever outdated system they have - this assuming they go to such troubles of course.
Portugal has had for years a company marketing a linux distro - caixa mágica. The national "one laptop per child" project already shipped with a linux installation. The IT world is already entrenched in linux. There is absolutely no need to look at brazil for linux support.
It's funny how Google Translate makes "Eça de Queirós" (a portuguese _male_ writer) become "Jane Austen"...
Because if not, it won't change anything, will it? If it costs, it costs, no matter if it's open source or not. Amazing to see that people still can't separate open from free.
Guys, don't forget they only reason they may (and not necessarily) do this is because they're poor as hell at the moment.
You're cheering because a country's infrastructure is falling apart and they have no other options. In practical terms, all the high-quality educational software they've purchased will no longer work. It's a victory for Linux but a massive failure for the Portuguese education system and by extension, European capitalism.
You may cheer, but I can foresee the parents (and in Mediterranean and pious countries like Portugal parenting is important, I'm Greek myself) coming into the school and being annoyed at how their children are not gaining work skills. The computers will then fall into disuse.
And lastly, don't expect the fact it's open-source change anything about the way lessons are taught. First off, don't expect the students to dig into the goddamn KDE or Linux kernel source code in case they have a programming lesson--which is obviously not going to be in the curriculum. And still, don't expect the school to make concessions on the students' freedom, they will all probably run at runlevel 3 with additional restrictions, including no access to the terminal and more.
All in all, this is still school. It's never going to constitute a victory for FOSS because it's clearly separate from home and they'll only get to use computers with this sort of software on them perchance once a week. It will be locked down as it ever has and no script kiddie will be born out of the programme unless they try to hack into the network through devious ways.
Not only does this move to open-source software mean nothing in the big picture, but it's also bad for education in Portugal. I'm a longtime Linux user and open-source advocate and I pity them.
Your post got me curious, because I always had the impression that Linux is better than Windows in supporting old hardware. So I did some digging and found, yes, they do drop old stuff, but usually it is really old stuff. So old that few people will use it anymore.
For instance, this article http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=OTg0Mg is about old graphics hardware that will be dropped in upcoming X.org releases. Typically, these chips were released in the late 1990s, so if you have a PC bought around the year 2000, you might have one of those.
But how many people do? I consider myself a bit of a pack rat, but even so I draw the line at keeping the three most recent "sets" of PC hardware.
- a Pentium 4 from 2004, with board/ GPU/ power supply from the same year, now sitting in an old case from 1996. To my best knowledge, none of the components is scheduled for de-supporting in Linux anytime soon.
-an AMD Athlon64 X2 from 2007.
-a new AMD quad core, recently assembled into the (really nice) case from 2004. This one is my new primary PC.
Most geeks change their PCs more often, so by geek standards, I think my oldest PC is rather ancient.
Corporate users seem to have a 5-6 year replacement cycle these years. At my place of work, most PCs are Core2Duos these days, with a few Pentium D still hanging around. Most single-core P4 are already gone.
That leaves underfunded schools and administrations (especially in third world countries) as the most likely candidates to have hardware from 2000 or older. Maybe it would be a good idea for them to maintain a distro for older hardware. The basis could be something like Debian stable (which is a few years behind the bleeding edge anyway ;-).
C - the footgun of programming languages
Do the school have the band with to do that?
Maybe if they had a sever at each school with the updates + WSUS on it but there is the cost of the sever at each school to add.
Haveing a Ghost image on a DVD / usb key can be faster and cheaper then useing a slow and or high cost per KB internet link.
But even useing OSS to keep old systems is not the best idea when some of the old systems are from the time where lot's of boards had the bad caps. Also the high cost of older DDR1/2 ram does not help.
The old hardware is the issue
Take the old P4 windows 7 will run of them if they have 1-2GB ram but that pushing it and the other stuff on top of it will slow down.
Now windows XP may run on new hardware but all the drivers may not be there and that can have so you can be stuck with no sound, no network, no USB (and new boards don't have ps2 on them), or maybe stuck at 640x480 at 16 colors.
Now what is the plan when the old p4 fail? Try to find more old p4? or get some new hardware in there? you can only go so far with old systems before they fail and it's hard to find parts to fix them.
"It's not the case with Portugal. Teaching software has to support (and in fact does support) Linux and Windows.
Where does it say that, do you have any links to citations?
"Recently LibreOffice corrupted line art horribly in my documents which made me quickly switch to Office. I still cannot trust LO to be compatible with the rest of the world. Maybe for basic text-only stuff you're good".
Could you post a sample of this line art that was corrupted?
No, the reason was that they wanted people to not be restricted in what they could do with the software that they had. E.g. you can't give your copy of Quickbooks away, but you sure can do it w/ GNUcash. The price had nothing to do with it - otoh, the lack of restrictions had everything to do with it. Yeah, since people are free to distribute it and therefore at some point or the other it can be obtained gratis, one can't over the long run charge too much for it - at least not anywhere near what proprietary equivalents cost.
I reckon gnome3-based ones are out, as there's no guaranteeing all of the hardware will be able to run it. Unity at least has the 2D mode, but I don't see the point using a distro with limited support and a UI that isn't quite solid yet. Gnome 2 is the obvious choice, but it's tied to distro's with quite outdated software in the repo's, although that is certainly fixeable. XFCE? KDE?
It is criminal for public school and other institutions to spend precious public money to upgrade computer system hardware to accommodate new flashy propitiatory software. Schools and public institutions should not have its members playing games in 3D. There is no reason that a good old PC with a 2D graphics card and a 486 should be scrapped in order to install Microsoft's latest monopoly OS -- Windows 7 (soon to be Windows 8).
If public institution computers could not play Angry Birds and stream porn videos our public workers and students would get a lot more work and learning done.
I too am fed up with Linux being promoted as a cheap (and implicitly nasty) option. We have seen some ultra-bottom end PC's sold with Linux badly installed which only worstened the reputation, and Lindows was another example.
I am no Linux evangalist but sometimes the subject crops up (eg with the guys at work) and I actually try to avoid mentioning that it costs nothing, because the immediate reaction of most people is that they suddenly change their attititude from interested to dismissive - "You only get what you pay for!" is the typical remark. In fact I have never found that particular meme to be true in any area.
The angle I came at to Linux was recognising it was a Unix system, something I had always held in some awe compared with the DOS I was obliged to grow up with. I used to think "If only my PC was powerful enough to run Unix instead of this Windows-on-DOS crap"; well, now it is.
I like Libre Office, but the Base part of it is not so good. I've been waiting for a good OSS replacement for Access for a long time.
I purchased a copy of windows 7. The first Microsoft product I purchased since XP.
The reason? Ceton infinitv 4, sandy bridge, Linux/X11, and community support leading nowhere. I consider myself proficient in a BSD/*x OS. CLI or tracking down the GUI alternatives. Dependencies and the inability to make a complete package are the main problems I have with Linux. To get something to work, I have to use unstable/alpha/beta.
Sure W7 wasn't an out of the box solution either, but everything (except that f*ing ps3 eye) was working correctly within 20 minutes after updates finished. My computer can come out of standby without having to be rebooted.
There is absolutely no need to look at brazil for linux support.
Thank god.
Top 5 Operating Systems in Brazil from October 2010 to September 2011
Not that the numbers for Portugal look any better.
Top 5 Operating Systems in Portugal from October 2010 to September 2011
Will MS pony up some PC's to go with W7? Just about every linux-based distro will run on anything built within the last 5 years so long as it has 512-1GB of RAM. Less if has a lighter desktop like XFCE or LXDE. They dont have the money to upgrade so they are mandating a migration to linux. Either that or they are 'negotiating' with MS to pony up some money for machines =D
Another more tricky strategy is to offer half of the stuff. In my country (Greece) the MSDNAA agreement in Universities includes all the OSs, languages and developmental MS stuff, but not Office. So, all students are very keen on pirating Office and using it in order to write all their essays, thus propagating the monopoly after they graduate to their future business environment (where also most of the Office copies are also pirated...).
Maybe you mean that Vista sucked such hairy donkey balls that even though 7 and 8 were worse than XP, they're still better than Vista...
NOTE: the light version "Starter" is nowhere near the power and capability of the mainstream 7 and light years behind Linux on the same hardware.
Raspberry Pi anyone?
by PC you mean general use box with KB, yes Acorn had one, arm3, you can even download the OS right now today.
Liberty freedom are no1, not dicks in suits.