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Sony, Universal and Fox Caught Pirating Through BitTorrent

New submitter Bad_Feeling sends in a followup to the story we discussed on Monday about a new site that scanned a few popular torrent trackers and linked torrents to IP addresses. The folks at TorrentFreak decided to check IP addresses belonging to major companies in the entertainment industry and published lists of pirated files from several, including Fox, Sony, and NBC Universal. Of course, they used the information to make a slightly different point than the industry usually does: "By highlighting the above our intention is not to get anyone into trouble, and for that reason we masked out the end of the IP addresses to avoid a witch hunt. An IP address is not a person, IP addresses can be shared among many people, and anyone can be behind a keyboard at any given time."

284 comments

  1. So they are uploading the movie? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    So surely the companies are distributing the movies to everyone. As they are the rights holder, it should be legal to download it?

    1. Re:So they are uploading the movie? by gmuslera · · Score: 4, Funny

      If they are downloading them, they are sharing them as well. Would be great that those 3 companies sue each other out of existence for sharing bittorrents of the movies of the other companies.

    2. Re:So they are uploading the movie? by HopefulIntern · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Not only that, but if they are indeed sharing, you could argue that all the stuff you have downloaded were from their IPs, so really the rightsholders were giving it out for free.

    3. Re:So they are uploading the movie? by Richard_at_work · · Score: 4, Informative

      It still doesn't make it legal to redistribute it...

    4. Re:So they are uploading the movie? by jpapon · · Score: 5, Insightful

      If they are downloading them, they are sharing them as well.

      That's simply not true. They could have turned off uploading.

      --
      -- Let us endeavor so to live that when we pass even the undertaker shall be sorry. -- M. Twain
    5. Re:So they are uploading the movie? by GameboyRMH · · Score: 1

      They first downloaded the movie and then were seeding it. The purpose of doing this is to log the IPs of other peers in the swarm. Call peer block lists ineffective but it hasn't harmed my activity, and I block the bogon ranges, and government and corporate ranges.

      --
      "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
    6. Re:So they are uploading the movie? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      peerblock + bluetack list (p2p) + any torrenting app = you won't/can't be tracked by any industry in any legal fashion. It literally is that simple these days.

      confirms that even of the thousands of torrents I've downloaded over the years, my IP address comes up with zero records.

    7. Re:So they are uploading the movie? by gfreeman · · Score: 1

      This is not how torrents work.

      --
      Ceci n'est pas un sig.
    8. Re:So they are uploading the movie? by spaceplanesfan · · Score: 1

      Lemme, turn on my ADSL modem we have here at my $BIG BUCKS HOLYWOOD COMPANY. Yep got you. Expect lawsuit any minute now....
      Really, seriously, your IP is available to everyone. YOU are broadcasting it to the whole world. Thats the bad thing about torrents that always scared me.
      Nothing prevents them to connect to me as a regular user and then no peerblock could save me.

    9. Re:So they are uploading the movie? by 19thNervousBreakdown · · Score: 3, Informative

      It is with hacked clients.

      --
      <xml><I><am><so><damn>Web 2.0</damn></so></am></I></xml>
    10. Re:So they are uploading the movie? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      you know, it helps to have a vague understanding of reality and not function off fear which defines that you have a lack of understanding.

      Just because they have your IP, so what? Where's the proof of anything? Where's the proof you actually uploaded a movie? yes, upload. Download is entirely legal and always has been. Personal use is not a copyright infringement. Again, there is more to the situation than you portray in your idiocy.

    11. Re:So they are uploading the movie? by capnkr · · Score: 5, Funny

      Are you accusing these fine, upstanding, all-taxes-and-royalty-paying media corporations of being greedy and/or acting solely in their own interests? Heh. Next thing you'll come up with is that they've intentionally uploaded corrupted files, stuffed the Obama administration and political process with their lobbyist sock puppets, or something else ridiculous like that...

      For shame, you, you... pirate!

      --
      "...there are some things that can beat smartness and foresight. Awkwardness and stupidity can." ~ Mark Twain
    12. Re:So they are uploading the movie? by spaceplanesfan · · Score: 2

      True. But point is that media companies can trivially know the IP and time it was used to download/upload.
      And yes most peoples upload, 'cause its too slow otherwise.
      Then you are one subpoena away from being IDed.
      Yes, I know that currently not much was done against torrent users since there are just too much of them, but that slowly changes.
      Besides as a Linux user that also doesn't like much ether music nor movies, I don't have any reason to pirate anything.

    13. Re:So they are uploading the movie? by Stenchwarrior · · Score: 1

      I think what spaceplanesfan was saying is that there's no really guarantee that you're going to be able to block your actions on the Internet. Yes you can use measures such as Peerblock and the like, but if some industry stooge wants to see what you are doing then there's really no way around it. Especially if they have enough clout to call your ISP with official credentials and get a data stream capture of your session. Unless you're using a SSL (not even then in some cases) and have uploading turned off, then MAYBE they won't be able to get anywhere.

      --
      Loading...
    14. Re:So they are uploading the movie? by Inda · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It's not about being totally hidden. It's about being more hidden than the spaz next door.

      --
      This post contains benzene, nitrosamines, formaldehyde and hydrogen cyanide.
    15. Re:So they are uploading the movie? by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      peerblock + bluetack list (p2p) + any torrenting app

      Bluetack appears to have been taken off the air.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    16. Re:So they are uploading the movie? by petermgreen · · Score: 5, Informative

      Torrents work by establishing connections either peer to peer or peer to seed. Peers request blocks of the file over those connections, download them and then check their hashes against those in the torrent file.

      Peers may perform some form of tit-for-tat to punish those who download without uploading but seeds aren't trying to download anything so can't perform tit-for-tat. So it's perfectly possible to download from a torrent while refusing to upload anything.

      Oh and the stats collected by the tracker are completely dependent on the honesty of the clients that report them.

      --
      note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
    17. Re:So they are uploading the movie? by RubberMallet · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Tell that to the lawyers who are suing people. I received a letter from a law firm claiming to represent a movie studio. They stated that they had "proof" that my IP address was being used to download a movie called Split - I had never even heard of the movie prior to the letter. I took it to a lawyer and they are handling it.. it's been almost 18 months now... they challenged the idiots who are trying to sue me, and it turns out they blitzed out 10,000 letters in the city I live in... all claiming infringement on the same movie based on the IP addresses collected via torrent clients they were monitoring.

      Proof? How do you prove it wasn't you? They say it was, and they have an IP address that may or may not have been yours at the time... they say that the IP address was at the time, involved in downloading said copyrighted material. Where's your defense? How do you prove it wasn't me (or anyone else) that was downloading the file. I can't prove it. All I can do is say.. I didn't do it, and if it goes to court... it's my word against theirs, and they have ISP records that appear to "prove" that I did download the movie.

    18. Re:So they are uploading the movie? by stanlyb · · Score: 1

      So, if you are working in WallMart, is it normal to eat anything and everything for free?

    19. Re:So they are uploading the movie? by jpapon · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I download torrents all the time without uploading anything. There are many ways of preventing outbound traffic...

      --
      -- Let us endeavor so to live that when we pass even the undertaker shall be sorry. -- M. Twain
    20. Re:So they are uploading the movie? by gfreeman · · Score: 5, Funny

      You live and learn. I go away for a few weeks and suddenly you can torrent without seeding and the speed of light is no longer a limit. Bloody technology, in my day .... blah blah blah .... lawns etc

      --
      Ceci n'est pas un sig.
    21. Re:So they are uploading the movie? by KnightMB · · Score: 5, Informative

      I don't know why this article at torrentfreak doesn't just list the IP address, it only took me all of 3 minutes to figure what the real IPs were.

      For the world to see now:

      208.84.225.10
      United States (US), California, Culver City
      Downloaded files
      Conan the Barbarian 2011 ... 80p DTS AC3 dxva-LoNeWolf (12.19 GB) Nov, 2011
      The Black Keys - Lonely Boy (7.50 MB) Nov, 2011
      VA - Dubstep Meditations - 2010 [FLAC] (336.47 MB) Nov, 2011
      {www.scenetime.com}Beavis ... port.480p.WEB-DL.x264-mSD (75.64 MB) Nov, 2011
      [ www.TorrentDay.com ] - ... rls.S01E08.HDTV.XviD-P0W4 (183.19 MB) Nov, 2011

      208.73.113.6
      United States (US), Florida, Fort Lauderdale
      Downloaded files
      Beatport Halloween Trance 2011 {aSBo} (389.74 MB) Dec, 2011
      Cowboys and Aliens [2010] dvd rip nlx (1.28 GB) Dec, 2011
      Game of Thrones Season 1 Complete 720p (14.53 GB) Nov, 2011
      2.Broke.Girls.S01E08.HDTV.XviD-P0W4.avi (174.89 MB) Nov, 2011
      How.to.Make.It.in.America ... 20p.HDTV.x264-IMMERSE.mkv (1013.61 MB) Nov, 2011

      216.205.224.10
      United States (US), California, Valley Village
      Downloaded files
      Super 8 2011 1080p BRRip ... ac vice (HDScene Release) (3.70 GB)

    22. Re:So they are uploading the movie? by g0bshiTe · · Score: 1

      In Azureus you can set a current download to seed queue, meaning I can download without it uploading back out.

      If I wanted to get high tech about it, I could just tell my firewall to refuse any outgoing requests for the torrent port. Incoming would be untouched as it's already initiated.

      -1 nerd point

      --
      I am Bennett Haselton! I am Bennett Haselton!
    23. Re:So they are uploading the movie? by spaceplanesfan · · Score: 1

      Fair point.

    24. Re:So they are uploading the movie? by delinear · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Because this is about showing how shady the labels are, not about retaliating in kind. We all know it's trivial to find out who these people are, there's no need for TF to stoop to their level (you know the first thing that would happen if they did is some script kiddies would go for a DoS attack and TF would take flak over it or be accused of implicitly instigating it).

    25. Re:So they are uploading the movie? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      -2nerd points,

      i see how sync packets fail to leave your router/firewall, crying to the holy god of the internetz and their prayers are not heart, butthurt all around, and no confirmation of outgoing packets is possible, practically fucking up tcp/udp connection, unless communication is somehow is done over UPD, BUT IT HAS TO BE MIRACLE!!!!! So no...

    26. Re:So they are uploading the movie? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So surely the companies are distributing the movies to everyone. As they are the rights holder, it should be legal to download it?

      Judging from a few "stop downloading our content" emails a friend of mine has gotten, they've usually been tied to low quality copies (to the point where they're unwatchable) being shared from the rights holder's honeypots.

    27. Re:So they are uploading the movie? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      lol, i meant ICMP... just too tired...

    28. Re:So they are uploading the movie? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      You do know that it doesn't matter if the connection was incoming or outgoing the data can be transmitted both ways through established connection?

    29. Re:So they are uploading the movie? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      peerblock + bluetack list (p2p) + any torrenting app = you won't/can't be tracked by any industry in any legal fashion. It literally is that simple these days.

      confirms that even of the thousands of torrents I've downloaded over the years, my IP address comes up with zero records.

      You're a damn fool if you think Peerblock "protects" you.

    30. Re:So they are uploading the movie? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      'struth. The rate of motion of a light ray must sum with the motion of its source.
          -- Isaac Newton

    31. Re:So they are uploading the movie? by SuricouRaven · · Score: 1

      For civil action, they don't need the 'proof beyond reasonable doubt' standard familiar from criminal cases. An IP address will suffice, unless the defendant can provide some solid evidence to the contary .

    32. Re:So they are uploading the movie? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Not to worry, this comment was modded too ... 'course it was with a -1.

      Sorry 'bout that bro.

    33. Re:So they are uploading the movie? by clarkn0va · · Score: 5, Funny

      I trust we're not talking about the unlawful modification of a copyrighted work here.

      --
      I am literally 3000 tokens away from the chaotic crossbow --Stephen
    34. Re:So they are uploading the movie? by Tastecicles · · Score: 2

      Correct. "Balance of probabilities" is the term used, where only 50.1% likelihood that something did happen over it didn't happen is required for a finding that it did happen.

      "My computer wasn't working" is not a swing to "didn't". "I don't own a computer" is a slight swing in favour of "didn't". If you use a TiVo (most of which now have ethernet connections for programmes on demand these days) then that is a point in favour of a finding of fact of "did" - even if you don't own a PC.

      If they want to talk about theft, then I say do it in a CRIMINAL COURT - where finding of fact is the responsibility of the accuser and the burden of proof is BEYOND REASONABLE DOUBT. Otherwise, "No Contract".

      --
      Operation Guillotine is in effect.
    35. Re:So they are uploading the movie? by StikyPad · · Score: 1

      How could they sue each other out of existence? If I have to pay you everything I have, and you have to pay me everything you have, and we're both movie studios.......?

      Oh right, the lawyers.

    36. Re:So they are uploading the movie? by rev0lt · · Score: 2

      The onus of proof rests on the accuser. But if you live in the USA, tough luck - it seems this kind of bullying is somehow legal.

    37. Re:So they are uploading the movie? by thomst · · Score: 3, Informative

      peerblock + bluetack list (p2p) + any torrenting app = you won't/can't be tracked by any industry in any legal fashion. It literally is that simple these days.

      No it's not.

      ALL of the URLs that bluetack points to have been "suspended" by Vectrohost.com, and bluetack's own page is now just a plea for contributions.

      --
      Check out my novel.
    38. Re:So they are uploading the movie? by Khyber · · Score: 3, Informative

      We have methods of detecting hacked clients and banning them from the seed cloud.

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
    39. Re:So they are uploading the movie? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      For civil action, they don't need the 'proof beyond reasonable doubt' standard familiar from criminal cases. An IP address will suffice, unless the defendant can provide some solid evidence to the contary .

      And that is why you might as well pirate. Their accuracy has historically been so bad that pirating vs abstaining behaviors don't really influence whether or not you'll be attacked. Similarly, once you're attacked your behavior has little bearing on whatever defense you may have. The truth doesn't matter.

    40. Re:So they are uploading the movie? by FlyingBishop · · Score: 1

      It's not though. If they really sent a blanket threat to 10,000 people on the basis of one IP address, they are probably liable for significant damages in a class-action suit.

    41. Re:So they are uploading the movie? by idbeholda · · Score: 1

      "Proof? How do you prove it wasn't you?"

      It's funny you ask that, because here in the U.S., you're innocent until *proven* guilty. The burden of proof lies with the accuser. Until they can prove beyond a reasonable doubt that you've done what you're being accused of doing, you can sit back and laugh at them. It's that simple.

    42. Re:So they are uploading the movie? by Xoltri · · Score: 1

      It's the same reason I wear my fast running shoes when hiking with friends, because even though I know I can't outrun the grizzly bear, I know I can outrun Steve.

      --
      -Xoltri
    43. Re:So they are uploading the movie? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You should be able to sopena your ISP for records of who was assigned that IP address when. So you can then demonstrate that you didn't have that IP address at the time the downloading was performed.

    44. Re:So they are uploading the movie? by Cito · · Score: 1
      All Bluetack blocklists are still being updated.

      Bogon - http://list.iblocklist.com/lists/bluetack/bogon

      Ads - http://list.iblocklist.com/lists/bluetack/ads-trackers-and-bad-pr0n

      EDU - http://list.iblocklist.com/lists/bluetack/edu

      Hijacked - http://list.iblocklist.com/lists/bluetack/hijacked

      P2P - http://list.iblocklist.com/lists/bluetack/level-1

      Spyware - http://list.iblocklist.com/lists/bluetack/spyware

      Primary Threats - http://list.iblocklist.com/lists/tbg/primary-threats

      Bluetack's site is down atm while it's being upgraded or changed whatever.. But ALL Bluetack ip lists are updated daily and were just updated today. and are hosted on another server. Iblocklist.com hosts the bluetack ip lists plus more.

    45. Re:So they are uploading the movie? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The most obvious explanation hasn't been mentioned yet -- by releasing material in such a way, it sets people up to be prosecuted for infringement when they download it. Since they haven't been able to prosecute the hundreds of millions of copyright abusers (they claim) are out there, they're trying to create some violations that they can then punish.

    46. Re:So they are uploading the movie? by suutar · · Score: 1

      unfortunately, as it's a civil case, it's "preponderance of evidence", which leaves that one IP address woefully unbalanced.

    47. Re:So they are uploading the movie? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      um, yes, it is.

    48. Re:So they are uploading the movie? by Galestar · · Score: 1

      Ya there's also the fact that them being able to quote your IP address off a list is in no way proof that you committed a crime.
      The "we have your IP" is still just their word against yours. Given their past shady conduct, there is no reason to believe that these people wouldn't falsify evidence.

      --
      AccountKiller
    49. Re:So they are uploading the movie? by geminidomino · · Score: 1

      The burden of proof lies with the accuser. Until they can prove beyond a reasonable doubt that you've done what you're being accused of doing, you can sit back and laugh at them.

      Not in a civil case it's not. "Beyond reasonable doubt" is the standard for criminal trials. In civil cases such as this bullshit[0], the standard is a "preponderance of evidence." Which basically just means that whoever is the more convincing (i.e. usually, who has more money for lawyers) wins.

      [0]Which would be kind of amusing if the push to criminalize it actually resulted in an increasing the standard of evidence for their scattershooting... that would require that the system not already be bought and paid for, though...

    50. Re:So they are uploading the movie? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And I'm sure there are also methods to get around those methods. You don't control the person's computer, after all.

    51. Re:So they are uploading the movie? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What you need is an expert witness to demonstrate the 1 to many nature of NAT on private IP addresses, DHCP on ISP addresses, IP logs from the ISP over time showing MAC to IP relationships, ARP tables, etc. IANAL, but I think that a Judge would understand that a similar situation occurs when you activate a phone with a previously used number. Here is an example:

      http://gma.yahoo.com/video/entertainment-26594234/celebrity-cell-phone-number-changes-man-s-life-27578427.html

      Put that together with the fact that the letter was spammed across your community and you have a winner.

      Good Luck!

    52. Re:So they are uploading the movie? by idbeholda · · Score: 1

      Yes, most cases that are brought about in regards to "internet piracy" (and I use that term loosely here) tend to be adjudicated under criminal courts. Hell, even the RIAA has a post about it ON THEIR SITE: http://www.riaa.com/physicalpiracy.php?content_selector=piracy_online_the_law

      I believe you're slightly confused on the matter in regards to "Beyond A Reasonable Doubt" and "Beyond A Shadow Of A Doubt". The first is used in CIVIL cases. In CRIMINAL cases, the burden of proof is much, much higher. In fact, so high, that if so much as one juror disagrees, then the accused is/are automatically found not to be guilty. It's amazing how that works. A layman's explanation of the difference between these two can be found here, although international courts handle things differently.
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reasonable_doubt
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beyond_the_shadow_of_a_doubt

      That's the difference between the two. Whether the case is criminal or civil (depending on the severity of the alleged crime), the accuser still assumes burden of proof. The difference between these is that reasonable doubt is only required in a civil suit, which only requires a majority consensus among the jurors involved in the deliberation. Criminal cases are an all-or-none deal. Other countries handle their courts differently, yes, but that's an entirely different topic, since it's pretty obvious that's what you're hinting at. The burden of proof ALWAYS rests with the accuser, not on the accused.

      So back to my original statement (which amazingly, still holds true), "The burden of proof lies with the accuser. Until they can prove beyond a reasonable doubt that you've done what you're being accused of doing, you can sit back and laugh at them."

    53. Re:So they are uploading the movie? by geminidomino · · Score: 1

      I believe you're slightly confused on the matter in regards to "Beyond A Reasonable Doubt" and "Beyond A Shadow Of A Doubt".

      I'm afraid I'm not. I know what the difference is, and the latter has no bearing in United States law.

    54. Re:So they are uploading the movie? by idbeholda · · Score: 1

      Apparently, you don't, since what I just posted should be common knowledge to anyone who paid attention in 9th grade U.S. History.

    55. Re:So they are uploading the movie? by geminidomino · · Score: 1

      I must be being trolled, since a 15 second google shows that you're wrong.

      Well played.

    56. Re:So they are uploading the movie? by RubberMallet · · Score: 1

      Exactly. They have an IP address that was linked, according to logs they have acquired from my ISP at the time, to my account at a specific time. They claim, again according to logs they have, that at that specific time - down to the second - apparently that IP that was assigned to me, was downloading the movie they are suing everyone and their grandma for downloading.

      This is their evidence... I've seen it... it (printouts of the logs) was in the initial letter I received from the lawyer.

      How do you defend that? I can't see how other than challenging them on their claims which my lawyer has done. The claims are very one sided... I can't prove I didn't do it... there's no way, and the lawyers sending out the letter know this. They are counting on the fact that most people will simply pay the 800 Euro fine they are levying to make it go away.

    57. Re:So they are uploading the movie? by bronney · · Score: 2

      well it depends who pay who first. I'd gladly go first.

    58. Re:So they are uploading the movie? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I loves me some Insane Clowns.

    59. Re:So they are uploading the movie? by ResidentSourcerer · · Score: 1

      One of the things I would do if I were a RIAA member:

      Option 1. Run lots of torrent servers just to track who's downloading.

      Option 2. Seed bad versions of movies -- e.g. ones with the first hour of good data and then junk or degraded video at the end. Get enough bad versions out there, and torrenting falls into disrepute.

      Option 3. Create MANY valid versions of a movie file with one byte different so there would be lots of checksums out there to muddy the waters.

      Option 4. Seed movies but write special torrent software that seeded slower and slower on a given connection -- and never seeded some chunks at all. Again: Object is to make torrents a PITA to use.

      --
      Third Career: Tree Farmer Second Career: Computer Geek First Career: Teacher, Outdoor Instructor, Photographer.
    60. Re:So they are uploading the movie? by geminidomino · · Score: 1

      Read? You mean like this from your second link?

      Beyond the shadow of a doubt is sometimes used interchangeably, although mistakenly, with beyond a reasonable doubt, especially in courts of law[3]. Some feel the former an impossible standard of proof in court, while the latter is more logically accommodating, allowing for the limits of human reason[4].

    61. Re:So they are uploading the movie? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Beyond the shadow of a doubt is sometimes used interchangeably, although mistakenly, with beyond a reasonable doubt, especially in courts of law[3].

      As in people often make the mistake of using it interchangeably...duh.

    62. Re:So they are uploading the movie? by idbeholda · · Score: 1

      Look, this isn't a difficult concept to underfuckinstand.

      In civil court, you only have to have a majority vote (beyond reasonable doubt) to get a conviction.

      In a criminal court, all the jurors have to agree to the charge, or the defendant isn't convicted. My first statement that unless the plaintiff(s) can prove beyond a reasonable doubt, with the burden of proof being provided by the plaintiff, then you literally have nothing to worry about. If no admissible evidence exists, then there is no ground to even bring forth a lawsuit.

      Are you really that stupid?

    63. Re:So they are uploading the movie? by geminidomino · · Score: 1

      You're the one confused, since "Beyond a reasonable doubt" has absolutely fuckall to do with a unanimous jury.

      I'm finished. You're clearly beyond help.

    64. Re:So they are uploading the movie? by idbeholda · · Score: 1

      No, you're finished because you know I'm right. I've made the facts pretty clear, whereas you pretty much fumbled your way through this argument like a blind man in an orgy. At least *I* know where *MY* penis is.

      Good day, sir.

    65. Re:So they are uploading the movie? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Game of Thrones???
      The people had to be deaf dumb and blind to d/l that garbage. They got what the d/l garbage.

  2. Dumb argument by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So their point is if IPs change, and it is hard to figure out who broke the law, law enforcement might as well just give up?

    I'm all for sharing of information and media freely. Hell! I pirate the shit out of everything, but this is the worst argument for it I have ever heard.

    The argument is equivalent to: A murderer used many cars during his escape, since it is hard to pinpoint which one is his we should give up.

    1. Re:Dumb argument by blackicye · · Score: 5, Informative

      So their point is if IPs change, and it is hard to figure out who broke the law, law enforcement might as well just give up?

      I'm all for sharing of information and media freely. Hell! I pirate the shit out of everything, but this is the worst argument for it I have ever heard.

      The argument is equivalent to: A murderer used many cars during his escape, since it is hard to pinpoint which one is his we should give up.

      Then obviously we should ban cars.

    2. Re:Dumb argument by Darfeld · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It seems to me it's not so much about giving up enforcement than pointing out that ip isn't a good way to identify law breakers.

      It more like, a murderer used a stolen cars ( Or the murderer give/sell the car away) and the police arrest the owner of the car...

      --
      (\__/) This is Lapinator
      (='.'=) copy it in your sig
      (")_(") so it can take over the world
    3. Re:Dumb argument by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      That's exactly what happens. Until the owner can prove it wasn't them driving, or the cops have a reason to believe otherwise, they are the prime suspect.
      Much in the same way that if your car is caught on a speed/red light camera, the owner gets the fine. Until they prove in court it wasn't them, or the real driver owns up to it, the owner is responsible for paying it.

    4. Re:Dumb argument by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      That's exactly what happens. Until the owner can prove it wasn't them driving

      R.I.P. Presumption of Innocence.

    5. Re:Dumb argument by Barefoot+Monkey · · Score: 1

      Their point is that an IP is a terrible basis for an accusation. It is. It's still a good starting point for a real investigation.

    6. Re:Dumb argument by bws111 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Good grief, are you really that dumb? Presumption of innocence means you are not guilty until proven otherwise (ie at trial). It does NOT refer to what the police do or who they consider guilty (a suspect). The stuff that happens BEFORE the trial is based on 'probable cause'. If your car is seen fleeing a crime scene, there is good reason (probable cause) to think you were involved. No, you have not been PROVEN to be involved yet, that would occur at trial. Same thing with an IP address. No, it does not mean the owner of the address is the guilty party, but there is probable cause to think he is, and that probable cause opens the door to the collection of further evidence and legal action. Nobody has been convicted or successfully sued based solely on an IP address.

    7. Re:Dumb argument by Bog+Standard · · Score: 1

      That should be *unless* proven otherwise - big distinction there.

    8. Re:Dumb argument by MacGyver2210 · · Score: 1

      I think a better analogy would be:

      A car manufacturer rails for a couple decades against the use of certain lithium batteries for its negative eco-impact.
      Car manufacturer is found to be using those batteries in their cars, and their cars to produce more eco-damage than the batteries.
      Car manufacturer says "See, the battery's not so big of a deal. There are more important considerations for a car."

      Basically, they reversed completely their opinion on prosecuting based on IP. That is their primary means of going after 'criminal' P2P sharers. I wish this had come out as "We're sorry, we realized we messed up, we're not going to use IP as prosecution material anymore."

      --
      If the only way you can accept an assertion is by faith, then you are conceding that it can't be taken on its own merits
    9. Re:Dumb argument by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In the US, presumption of innocence, right to a jury trial, or whatever other rights you think you have, end when it's an "infraction", because that's not a real crime (misdemeanor or felony). It's kinda bullshit IMO, but it's the status quo, not something new with red light cameras and such (as many people seem to think).

    10. Re:Dumb argument by delinear · · Score: 1

      Yes, but ownership of the car alone is not sufficient evidence for a conviction, only to point the finger of suspicion. The police then go on to look for more evidence to build a case in court. With these civil cases often the IP is the only "evidence" that's being offered, and it's a lot harder to steal someone's car, use it to commit a murder and put it back without the owner realising than it is to let someone else use your computer, or to spoof an IP/piggyback off someone else's network, or for the logging software at the ISP to screw up.

    11. Re:Dumb argument by ShooterNeo · · Score: 1

      Keep in mind that they only need to show there is a 51% chance it was you to win in court.

      In your analogy, at least 51% of the time a murderer probably uses their own car.

      So if the MPAA lawyers show up in court with a printout from your ISP saying that you were using X IP at a particular time, and they have a log from a hacked client showing that X IP downloaded a movie they own at that time....bam, automatic win.

      Because a rational, scientific view of the evidence would be that this method of data collection works at LEAST 51% of the time.

      Now, in practice courts give lawyers a chance to try all kind of things to slow down the process...but the way the system works, it is "justice" for you to pay some kind of civil penalty for your misdeed. Now, the actual dollar amounts specified by the law are ridiculous...but JUDGES DON'T MAKE THE LAW, they just INTERPRET it.

    12. Re:Dumb argument by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > Nobody has been convicted or successfully sued based solely on an IP address.

      Then why do we keep hearing about these "three strikes" laws that will shut down people's internet connections for filesharing based solely on accusations and without any trial or means of appeal?

    13. Re:Dumb argument by Kjella · · Score: 1

      Nobody has been convicted or successfully sued based solely on an IP address.

      You lost it in the last sentence there, nobody's been convicted in a criminal case. Plenty of people have been sued and lost in civil cases, where you don't have the presumption of innocence. A civil case is looked on as a dispute where both parties are equal and a simple preponderance of evidence is sufficient.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    14. Re:Dumb argument by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Presumption of Innocence may or may not be actually be enforced these days; However, what the general population does to Innocent people these days isn't actually pleasant.

    15. Re:Dumb argument by Calos · · Score: 1

      Bullshit. There's no "percentage" required to convict, nor any such way to quantify that. And even as an approximation, 51% doesn't match what happens (at least, what's supposed to happen). The game isn't whether or not they "probably" did it, for which 51% would be the minimum (but not at all meaningful); it's that they did it "beyond a reasonable doubt," i.e., assuming reasonable circumstances and given the evidence, it should be very likely that they did it.

      51% is idiotic. It's not meaningfully different than just flipping a coin and getting rid of courts and judges and jurors. 51% means maybe they did it maybe they didn't, but most of all, we have no clue whether they did it or not.

      --
      I vote based on politicians' actions, unless contrary to my preconceptions. Often wrong, never uncertain. #iamthe99%
    16. Re:Dumb argument by bws111 · · Score: 1

      I don't know where you came up with that crap, but it is entirely false. Perhaps you could point us to this 51% law?

      I suspect you are referring to the different standards between civil and criminal cases, but your interpretation is way off.

      In a criminal case, the standard is 'reasonable doubt'. That is, if the jury has any reasonable doubt that the defendant is guilty, they must acquit. The defense does not even have to put on a case, and the jury can still decide the prosecutions case was too weak.

      In a civil case, the standard is 'preponderance of evidence'. That means that, in the jury's mind, enough unrefuted evidence was presented by the plaintiff to determine that the defendant is liable. The defense MUST put on a case, or they will lose. It has nothing to do with probabilities or any such nonsense.

    17. Re:Dumb argument by bws111 · · Score: 1

      Name one case where someone lost a civil case based solely on an IP address.

    18. Re:Dumb argument by bws111 · · Score: 1

      Name a case where the ONLY evidence was an IP address, and the plaintiff won.

    19. Re:Dumb argument by blueg3 · · Score: 1

      Who has lost a civil case based only on an IP address?

    20. Re:Dumb argument by sorak · · Score: 1

      So their point is if IPs change, and it is hard to figure out who broke the law, law enforcement might as well just give up?

      I'm all for sharing of information and media freely. Hell! I pirate the shit out of everything, but this is the worst argument for it I have ever heard.

      The argument is equivalent to: A murderer used many cars during his escape, since it is hard to pinpoint which one is his we should give up.

      How about

      People ride cabs all the time. I know, you saw the criminal get in that cab, six months ago. That doesn't mean that whoever is in that cab right now is the criminal

    21. Re:Dumb argument by sorak · · Score: 1

      Sorry, I posted before reading your post. I had the exact same analogy, except that the murderer was seen in a taxi six months ago. You are in that same taxi, today. Therefore, you must be the murderer.

    22. Re:Dumb argument by bws111 · · Score: 1

      I don't think there any such laws in the US, and in any case having your internet connection cut off is not losing a lawsuit or being convicted of a crime.

    23. Re:Dumb argument by AvitarX · · Score: 4, Informative

      Most civil actions are "Preponderance of the Evidence", which means more likely than not.

      Some civil issues require "Clear and Convincing" evidence, which is a higher burden, this is often used for counter claims that involve having legal fees covered (for example, I sue the insurance company, claiming they need to pay, they counter sue, saying I acted fraudulently in getting the policy, I would generally only need Preponderance, they would likely need Clear and Convincing, but if they one the counter suit, I would owe them for all of their legal fees).

      I've actually never heard the words "Beyond a Reasonable Doubt" in a civil case, except for during jury instruction where the judge tries to explain that it is a lower burden than a criminal case.

      --
      Wow, sent an e-mail as suggested when clicking on "use classic" banner, and got a fast response that addressed my msg
    24. Re:Dumb argument by bws111 · · Score: 2

      Preponderance of the evidence does not mean more likely than not. It means the plaintiff has presented a stronger case than the defense. 'More likely than not' is a simple probabilities statement, and preponderance of the evidence has nothing to do with probabilities.

    25. Re:Dumb argument by Attila+Dimedici · · Score: 1

      No, the argument is, a murderer used many cars during his escape, just because one of those cars belonged to this guy, does not mean that this guy is the murderer, or an accomplice to the murderer.

      --
      The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
    26. Re:Dumb argument by Attila+Dimedici · · Score: 1

      The key difference is that they would not be able to convict the person solely on the basis of the fact that a car they owned, that they claim was stolen, was used by the murderer. It is unlikely they would even take the person to court if that is all they had.

      --
      The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
    27. Re:Dumb argument by GuB-42 · · Score: 4, Funny

      Banning cars would make more sense.
      Unlike bittorrent, cars actually kill people and are a huge environmental problem.

    28. Re:Dumb argument by danomac · · Score: 1

      Being dumb does have some benefits, like low expectations.

    29. Re:Dumb argument by ShooterNeo · · Score: 2

      "preponderance" means 51%. What else would it mean?

    30. Re:Dumb argument by BattleApple · · Score: 1

      What if the criminal is using his credit card to rent cars from companies that keep records on who had each car and when? Do ISPs keep logs of who had a certain IP on a specific day? Maybe they delete the logs once a month.. I have no idea, but in both cases, wouldn't that be enough to prompt an investigation?

    31. Re:Dumb argument by tepples · · Score: 1

      Capitol v. Thomas?

    32. Re:Dumb argument by Tastecicles · · Score: 1

      A Gatso image has to have a clear shot of the driver's face or the case falls over. Unless of course, you have an honest driver who admits to being over the limit and pays the penalty notice...

      --
      Operation Guillotine is in effect.
    33. Re:Dumb argument by Tastecicles · · Score: 1

      That is PRECISELY what happens in civil hearings. Balance of Probabilities only requires a 1% swing either side of the midline to find fact in favour. The only way say, an accused rapist would get out of being found to have actually committed a rape in a civil hearing would be if he DIDN'T HAVE A PENIS.

      --
      Operation Guillotine is in effect.
    34. Re:Dumb argument by Tastecicles · · Score: 1

      It is in a civil hearing. Only in a criminal trial would you hear of the prosecution trying to prove that X was driving the car at the time the alleged offence took place and that that car was there. In a civil hearing only the presence of the car at the scene would be enough to prove to the civil standard that X was also at the scene. The burden is thus on X to prove he was not behind the wheel.

      --
      Operation Guillotine is in effect.
    35. Re:Dumb argument by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Please pay closer attention to which comment you are replying to. The comment you replied to:

      "That's exactly what happens. Until the owner can prove it wasn't them driving

      R.I.P. Presumption of Innocence."

      Has presumption of innocence correct, you should NOT have to prove you were not driving a car in a red light camera case, it should be presumed that you were NOT driving the car and the prosecution should have to prove you were, Sadly this is often not the case with red light cameras, but according to the concept of presumption of innocence it should be.

      Now if you MEANT to reply with your "are you really that dumb" comment to:

      "It seems to me it's not so much about giving up enforcement than pointing out that ip isn't a good way to identify law breakers.

      It more like, a murderer used a stolen cars ( Or the murderer give/sell the car away) and the police arrest the owner of the car."

      You would then be correct

    36. Re:Dumb argument by bws111 · · Score: 1

      As I said, it means that the jury found the plaintiffs argument persuasive. It has nothing to do with percentages. What does that percentage even mean? What does 100% represent?

    37. Re:Dumb argument by AvitarX · · Score: 1

      Considering the judge uses the words "more likely than not" every single time I heard jury instructions were read, I would disagree.

      Though you are correct that it is based on the evidence only, and not over-all probabilities I suppose.

      --
      Wow, sent an e-mail as suggested when clicking on "use classic" banner, and got a fast response that addressed my msg
    38. Re:Dumb argument by bws111 · · Score: 1

      Nope. Read through the transcript. You'll see evidence of the IP address. You'll see evidence of how the ISP matched that to her account. Evidence of the a user name from kazaa. Evidence of the MAC address of the modem to which the IP addr was assigned. Evidence of how hard it would be to spoof the IP address. Evidence that there was no wireless router being used. Evidence that there were no other computers in her home. Evidence that the Kazaa user name matched her email address. Evidence that the user name on her computer matched the kazaa name. Evidence that her hard drive had been re-imaged after she was warned not to destroy data. Evidence that she used the kazaa name all over the place.

    39. Re:Dumb argument by jamstar7 · · Score: 1

      But if he's found in possession of a strap-on, he's fucked.

      --
      Understanding the scope of the problem is the first step on the path to true panic.
    40. Re:Dumb argument by Tastecicles · · Score: 1

      mod parent funny. I actually did a doubletake.

      --
      Operation Guillotine is in effect.
    41. Re:Dumb argument by ShooterNeo · · Score: 1

      100% would mean there is absolutely no chance at all, short of aliens or intervention by a deity, that a particular side in a legal case could be correct.

      For example, the chance that Nidal Malik Hasan did not in fact shoot those people is approximately 0, making the prosecution's case (that he is guilty of murder) essentially 100%. The only way Hasan could be innocent is if there were a conspiracy of hundreds of people, many of whom willing to die, in order to make Hasan receive the death penalty. Or if God/aliens were to have inserted illusions of Hasan shooting those people into the brains of the dozens of direct witnesses. (and teleporting Hasan to the scene, and placing the smoking gun into his hand, etc)

      Preponderence of evidence means that if there is a straw more evidence for one side or the other, you are supposed to take the side with more persuasive evidence. The chance that you did not pirate certain files, if they have your IP doing it, is less than 51% unless you can show something clear and convincing. (for instance, that you do not own a computer)

    42. Re:Dumb argument by cheekyjohnson · · Score: 1

      The argument is equivalent to: A murderer used many cars during his escape, since it is hard to pinpoint which one is his we should give up.

      Not really. It's just that the nature of the internet makes it difficult to determine if the person actually did it. The person who really did it could be (depending on the circumstances) anywhere.

      And your analogy, while slightly similar, demonstrates a crime that I think is far more severe. The fact of the matter is that confiscating equipment and such greatly inconveniences people (and they might not have even done it). And for what? Because someone, somewhere may or may not have lost potential profit? That's not worth investigating, in my opinion. Unless they can magically demonstrate that it definitely was that person, I couldn't care less.

      --
      Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
    43. Re:Dumb argument by cheekyjohnson · · Score: 1

      That sounds idiotic. Why not have the same standard of evidence everywhere?

      --
      Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
    44. Re:Dumb argument by Tastecicles · · Score: 1

      Because that would be inconvenient in cases where the mere mention of a possibility is enough to "convict" - ie, a family proceeding where hearsay is found in fact and the facts themselves are an inconvenience, the end result being children are removed to suffer the next few years being abused in the hands of the State and the parents often commit suicide. I can only think of one example that actually made the news, and that's Willow Simpson who hanged herself in a Stafford hospital seven days after being told that she would never see her newborn baby as it was being adopted on the grounds that she might possibly one day in the future cause her child "emotional harm". Scoff all you want, doubters, this shit happens in the UK on an extremely regular basis.

      --
      Operation Guillotine is in effect.
    45. Re:Dumb argument by MacWiz · · Score: 1

      Then obviously we should ban cars.

      It's not the cars that are the problem, it's the open access to roads.

    46. Re:Dumb argument by Darfeld · · Score: 1

      Works well if you do your hacking stuffs in a cyber-café :)

      --
      (\__/) This is Lapinator
      (='.'=) copy it in your sig
      (")_(") so it can take over the world
  3. If only we could get them to sue each other... by syousef · · Score: 2, Interesting

    ...out of existence!!!

    --
    These posts express my own personal views, not those of my employer
    1. Re:If only we could get them to sue each other... by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      Christ, who's doing the moderating today? The parent comment wasn't offtopic, although I am. Do you even know what thread you're moderating? Some people should never get mod points.

    2. Re:If only we could get them to sue each other... by syousef · · Score: 1

      Christ, who's doing the moderating today? The parent comment wasn't offtopic, although I am. Do you even know what thread you're moderating? Some people should never get mod points.

      That's okay I've come to expect slashdot moderation to be complete shit. It's just as likely someone didn't agree with a previous post and has decided to mod all my subsequent posts down. Wouldn't be the first time I suspect this happened. So while there are still some sane people here quality has gone down and overall I can't help but think "FUCK SLASHDOT" every time I visit.

      --
      These posts express my own personal views, not those of my employer
    3. Re:If only we could get them to sue each other... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      and overall I can't help but think "FUCK SLASHDOT" every time I visit.

      And yet here you are again. Personally I think you have a bit of a masochistic streak in you. Then again, anybody that visits here probably does at this point.

  4. Wasn't that site a hoax? by thegarbz · · Score: 3, Informative

    Didn't we discuss to death that the site www.youhavedownloaded.com was a hoax? I mean we're talking about a site that says "Don't take it seriously" at the bottom of every page. Also apparently I've downloaded a single episode of some series I've never heard of (mid-season mind you), and my IP has been static for about 8 years now.

    1. Re:Wasn't that site a hoax? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      Oh sorry that was me. I've been living in your roof for 3 years now.
      How's Sally doing in school?

    2. Re:Wasn't that site a hoax? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I do know the site is right about the five downloads it lists for me (Japanese anime), although it is ("thankfully") only a small fraction of what I'm downloading.

    3. Re:Wasn't that site a hoax? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They had 1 thing I had downloaded recently listed.

    4. Re:Wasn't that site a hoax? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They had 1 thing I had downloaded recently listed.

      Same here,

      It was a popular title bun in an uncommon format, so it is very unlikely to be coincidence.

    5. Re:Wasn't that site a hoax? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I do use torrents a bit (lots of games&music) and the site had properly recognised that I've downloaded Spiderman 1&2 for PSX, but nothing else.

    6. Re:Wasn't that site a hoax? by advocate_one · · Score: 3, Interesting

      No, they had me dead to rights on all the torrents they had my IP listed for... the latest episodes of "Glee", "2 Broke Girls", "New Girl" and "How I met Your Mother"... plus a Miley Cyrus discography I was pulling down for my daughter (honest!!!)...

      --
      Donald 'Duck' Dunn: We had a band powerful enough to turn goat piss into gasoline.
    7. Re:Wasn't that site a hoax? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I pirate constantly and it says that I've never downloaded anything.

    8. Re:Wasn't that site a hoax? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Apparently I'm in the clear.

      ROFLMAO.

    9. Re:Wasn't that site a hoax? by Kjella · · Score: 4, Informative

      Hoax? No, they had certainly scanned TPB for recent torrents - they listed me accurately, that's not a coincidence. That doesn't mean their lists are complete, accurate or anything like that, I'm sure it's easy to poison a tracker into giving out IPs that aren't actually torrenting. Maybe the trackers add some random IPs too for plausible deniability? Whatever the case, the legal value is hogwash. Why should it be a joke anyway? Grab a torrent, connect to the tracker, voila you get a list of IPs to stuff in a database. That and being illegal too, at least in my country so in any it'd be thrown out on that basis alone. But it's not like they did something magic.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    10. Re:Wasn't that site a hoax? by Rockoon · · Score: 4, Funny

      Have you considered just using www.youporn.com?

      --
      "His name was James Damore."
    11. Re:Wasn't that site a hoax? by heinousjay · · Score: 0

      If you were downloading all of the rest for yourself, don't worry, the Miley Cyrus is an improvement of your taste.

      --
      Slashdot - where whining about luck is the new way to make the world you want.
    12. Re:Wasn't that site a hoax? by GameboyRMH · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I entered the IP of one of my seedboxes which is also a Tor exit node (did the lookup through Tor, using HTTPS to the site, using a secure and anonymous browser). That exit node has Bittorrent blocked and it's on a dynamic IP that changes often. 4 out of the 8 torrents displayed were ones that I'd downloaded, 1 was recent and the other 3 had been on there for a long time. The seedbox has around 500 torrents on it.

      It also showed results for the German exit node I was viewing it through.

      --
      "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
    13. Re:Wasn't that site a hoax? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's not entirely a hoax. I downloaded one episode of Top Chef (horrible show, btw) because it was about chili. The site correctly identified me for downloading it. It listed two other obscure torrents I downloaded as well. I download several gigs of shows every week, and it had no data on any of that. But some of the site's data are correct.

    14. Re:Wasn't that site a hoax? by Terrasque · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I'm sure it's easy to poison a tracker into giving out IPs that aren't actually torrenting.

      The protocol is dead simple, actually. HTTP GET's and decoder for bencoded formats, and you're halfway to making a database already. Add some web crawling for torrents, and you're set.

      Tracker protocol:
      http://wiki.theory.org/BitTorrent_Tracker_Protocol

      GET announce example from there:

      hxxp://some.tracker.com:999/announce
      ?info_hash=12345678901234567890
      &peer_id=ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRST
      &ip=255.255.255.255
      &port=6881
      &downloaded=1234
      &left=98765
      &event=stopped

      And it will answer with a list of active peers (with IP) it already have on that info_hash, in bencoded format.

      Bencoded format example:

      d4:spaml1:a1:bee represents the dictionary { "spam" => [ "a", "b" ] }

      This is more or less a weekend project, if even that.

      --
      It's The Golden Rule: "He who has the gold makes the rules."
    15. Re:Wasn't that site a hoax? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Have you considered just using www.youporn.com?

      For his daughter? YOU SICK BASTARD!~

    16. Re:Wasn't that site a hoax? by swinferno · · Score: 1

      No. It indeed showed (a fraction of) things I recently downloaded using torrents

      --
      "In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." - George Orwell
    17. Re:Wasn't that site a hoax? by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      Aren't all of those except the Miley Cyrus bit streamed from the network? Why pirate what's already free?

    18. Re:Wasn't that site a hoax? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Are they going to put you in a women's prison? Holy crap, that's some gay shit you are risking financial ruin for.

      Captcha: gleeful

    19. Re:Wasn't that site a hoax? by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 1

      Aren't all of those except the Miley Cyrus bit streamed from the network? Why pirate what's already free?

      Portable devices?

      --
      My God, it's Full of Source!
      OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
    20. Re:Wasn't that site a hoax? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ceiling Cat, is that you?

    21. Re:Wasn't that site a hoax? by advocate_one · · Score: 1

      not available in my country... stupid networks... they could have my eyeballs watching the stream with ads... but no, they're stoopid...

      --
      Donald 'Duck' Dunn: We had a band powerful enough to turn goat piss into gasoline.
    22. Re:Wasn't that site a hoax? by advocate_one · · Score: 1

      2 broke girls has Kat Dennings in
      New Girl has Zoeey Deschanel in it
      How I met your mother has Coby Smulders in it...
      Glee has Dianna Agron and Heather Morris in it...

      so not gay...

      --
      Donald 'Duck' Dunn: We had a band powerful enough to turn goat piss into gasoline.
  5. I'm sure it's fine. by timlyg · · Score: 1

    Just like a cop watching kiddie porn at the 'evidence room'.

  6. Just checking? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Maybe they downloaded stuff just to see if it was really their content or not =P

    Haha... my captcha is "denial"

  7. It's been a common theory for some time... by beaverdownunder · · Score: 4, Insightful

    ...that if a property is doing sluggishly the PR arms of the studios put it out on the 'net to try to raise buzz. The irony is that then the legal arms of these same companies go after those very people the other side of their company want to resuscitate their ailing properties by word-of-mouth.

    It's cynical, hypocritical and just downright fucked up.

    1. Re:It's been a common theory for some time... by jpapon · · Score: 2

      Not really... As the rights holder they can distribute it for free to as many people as they want. They can also say that those people do NOT have the right to distribute it to others. It's not the fault of the PR arm if the people they give a work to proceed to do something illegal with it.

      --
      -- Let us endeavor so to live that when we pass even the undertaker shall be sorry. -- M. Twain
    2. Re:It's been a common theory for some time... by plover · · Score: 1

      Not really... As the rights holder they can distribute it for free to as many people as they want. They can also say that those people do NOT have the right to distribute it to others. It's not the fault of the PR arm if the people they give a work to proceed to do something illegal with it.

      I *so* want to be on the jury of a trial testing that bit of legal theory.

      --
      John
    3. Re:It's been a common theory for some time... by CmdrEdem · · Score: 1

      I could say that suing people will raise "word-of-mouth". Even more than letting people download stuff freely. Bad sh*t always get more attention than good stuff.

      --
      This combination doesn`t exist: ETIs that know about humanity and want to see us dead. Otherwise we wouldn't exist.
    4. Re:It's been a common theory for some time... by jpapon · · Score: 4, Interesting

      It's not a theory. It's put into practice all the time... The PR arm distributes copies for publicity to many people (critics, celebrities, etc) . If those people start distributing their free copies, I guarantee they'll be in court as soon as they're caught.

      --
      -- Let us endeavor so to live that when we pass even the undertaker shall be sorry. -- M. Twain
    5. Re:It's been a common theory for some time... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If that's true it's neither cynical nor hypocritical. I wish Slashdotters would understand that large companies are so complex that it's very easy for one side to be doing one thing while the other does the opposite, and when large organizations do this there is no implicit cynicism nor hypocrisy involved, merely a lack of coordination (or, you might say, schizophrenia, which is more accurate if we are modelling the organization as an organism).

      It's fucked up, for sure - it indicates a sad lack of control within the company - but it's an illness, not a personality trait.

    6. Re:It's been a common theory for some time... by Rennt · · Score: 0

      Beg to differ. Unless you have signed some sort of NDA that is perfectly legal.

    7. Re:It's been a common theory for some time... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...and those copies clearly state they are not for resale or distribution. You cannot make the same claim on a torrent. Torrents, by default, automatically reseed and redistribute anything downloaded (yes I am aware that you can override this setting). By placing torrent files into the feed with no notice not to distribute, they really are going to have a hard time convincing any judge that there was not a implicit grant of distribution rights. If, on the otherhand, they placed such restrictions into the torrent descriptions, then they may have a case, but I doubt that is being done. Unless you notify the recipient of such restrictions you cannot, after the fact, claim that such restrictions exist. and of course IANAL, YMMV.

    8. Re:It's been a common theory for some time... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's highly unlikely that would stand up in any reasonable court. Distributing something by torrent is not just granting implicit permission to redistribution, it is actively requesting it.

    9. Re:It's been a common theory for some time... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Indeed, I worked at a pan-European company that wanted to rationalise all of their UK websites into one. There were about 7,000 employees in the UK and somehow they'd fragmented their web presence across 27 different websites, almost every one with a different hosting company, some administered by people who had left, some registered through a law firm who was no longer affiliated with the company. The best part was that, even though the information that all of the sites were being amalgamated into the global site and all future development would be done as an offshoot of that, in the two months that the work was being carried out and the three months following when we were running analytics, another 3 sites were commissioned externally by different departments. I just don't see how the people at the top CAN exercise control when the company is so big, which makes me wonder how they demand the salaries they do for the work they claim to be, but can't possibly be, doing.

    10. Re:It's been a common theory for some time... by jpapon · · Score: 0

      Movies have copyright notices in them, so they don't need any external note. You could easily put a copyright notice in the metadata of any file.

      --
      -- Let us endeavor so to live that when we pass even the undertaker shall be sorry. -- M. Twain
    11. Re:It's been a common theory for some time... by jpapon · · Score: 1

      No, it is not. Movies have clear copyright notices in them stating that you can not distribute them. No external agreement is needed. If I find a DVD on the ground it doesn't mean it is legal for me to start copying it simply because I never made an agreement with the rightsholder.

      --
      -- Let us endeavor so to live that when we pass even the undertaker shall be sorry. -- M. Twain
    12. Re:It's been a common theory for some time... by marcosdumay · · Score: 1

      Did you read the post you are "replying" to? They are distributing the moveis in a format that implies it will be redistributed.

      If they go to libraries and give them several copies of their works, fully conscient that it is a library they are giving the copies to, say nothing and go away, do you think they can sue the libraries once they start to lend the movies? (Or theaters, once they start showing the movie to audiences, or museums, once they start displaying the movies, etc.)

    13. Re:It's been a common theory for some time... by blackraven14250 · · Score: 1

      The metadata of a file isn't available until you actually download the file, after which point you're already guilty. You would need to have that data available in the torrent description, or some other easily accessible area visible before the download.

    14. Re:It's been a common theory for some time... by icebraining · · Score: 1

      They don't even need the notice.

    15. Re:It's been a common theory for some time... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're absolutely right; but here's what will happen -- they'll give it for free, then take you to court claiming you grabbed it illegally. Talk about entrapment.

    16. Re:It's been a common theory for some time... by Rennt · · Score: 1

      You didn't say anything about copying. Giving away the copy that was given to me is perfectly legal.

    17. Re:It's been a common theory for some time... by sjames · · Score: 1

      Even when they distribute it in a way that practically insists that it be re-distributed by the recipients? All but the most savvy would necessarily re-distribute it even as they download from the PR people and might not even know they're doing it.

  8. This story is somewhat confused or editing was bad by UnknowingFool · · Score: 4, Insightful

    By highlighting the above our intention is not to get anyone into trouble . . .

    This quote is not from Hollywood studios but the author of the article on torrentfreak. This is somewhat of a non-story. It is possible that an employee of a studio is downloading via torrents without permission. After all, how many people do you know use their work networks to download pirated content. Their companies most likely do not approve of such actions. This is only a story if a high-ranking employee is pirating. If the downloading was authorized, what was the purpose? If someone from the legal/copyright department is doing so to verify that their content is on the internet, that's well within the scope of their jobs.

    --
    Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
  9. What was the point of IP masking... ? by HPXX · · Score: 1

    It did nothing. Figuring out the last octet shouldn't be too difficult.

  10. It's a TRAP! by The+Jynx · · Score: 5, Insightful

    FTA:

    "In a response Buma/Stemra issued a press release stating that their IP-addresses were spoofed. A very unlikely scenario, but one that will be welcomed by BitTorrent pirates worldwide. In fact, they’d encourage Sony, Universal and Fox to say something similar. After all, if it’s so easy to spoof an IP-address, then accused file-sharers can use this same defense against copyright holders."

    This is quite a smart move. Getting these big organisations to explain this away will only add credence to the valid reasons that the public should be able to use to protect themselves. It doesn't matter what your personal opinion is on the morals of the situation the plain fact is an IP is not a person and the clearer this is made to the judges the better. Of course there is a the chance that the IPs were added manually by the guys who set the project up, they already admitted that there is still test data in there (do a check for 192.168.*.*) so it's far from perfect.

    1. Re:It's a TRAP! by laffer1 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      This has always been my problem with these lawsuits. An IP address has never been equal to a person. NAT and wifi are two reasons that it could be anyone in the area or household. Then when you throw malware into the mix it could literally be anyone. As you've pointed out, spoofing could also be done to frame someone.

      This is also the reason I won't run tor here. I don't think a judge or prosecutor would understand that anyone can be downloading through my IP address.

    2. Re:It's a TRAP! by bws111 · · Score: 1

      Of course an IP address is not equal to a person. A fingerprint found at a crime scene does not prove the person committed the crime either. Both are starting points for further investigation and collection of evidence. The only way you are legally going to be able to do the further investigation and collection of evidence is by initiating legal action via a lawsuit.

  11. This is news? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Come on. Mega corporations in the entertainment business with tens of thousands of employees, mostly in their twenties and thirties have some employees who are illegally downloading from sites that haven't yet made the IT firewall blacklist. Wow! Stop the presses!

    1. Re:This is news? by somersault · · Score: 1

      Whatever. It's still hilarious.

      --
      which is totally what she said
  12. They probed some files by advid.net · · Score: 0

    Those major could have asked some of their employees to test if there was some of their own movies being pirated, acting like pirates for a few moments...

    1. Re:They probed some files by plover · · Score: 2

      Those major could have asked some of their employees to test if there was some of their own movies being pirated, acting like pirates for a few moments...

      Yep. Fox was making sure that Sony movies were being pirated, by downloading them.

      No doubt they were trying to help Sony's legal case by making their downloading problem look even worse.

      --
      John
  13. Re:This story is somewhat confused or editing was by jpapon · · Score: 2, Insightful

    how many people do you know use their work networks to download pirated content

    None, actually. That's a really stupid thing to do... The only thing worse than being slapped with a 100k fine for downloading some music is also getting fired over it.

    --
    -- Let us endeavor so to live that when we pass even the undertaker shall be sorry. -- M. Twain
  14. Re:This story is somewhat confused or editing was by glop · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Actually it's pretty much a story if it's low-level employees doing it.
    Come on! the MPAA and RIAA are always trying to get ISPs to police their customers and make sure nobody is using their connection to pirate stuff.
    But then they can't even block their own freaking employees from going to torrents and pirating copyrighted works?

    I mean, it should be easier to control employees than customers, no? So this makes the point of the ISPs that have long said that they can't monitor their customers and make sure they don't pirate.

  15. what? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    As they are the rights holder, it should be legal to download it?

    http://www.kilasan.info
    http://www.staen.info
    http://www.proformelliptic.com

  16. They own the rights... by sohmc · · Score: 0

    If I write a book and I reserve all rights, I can copy my own book if I wanted to, right?

    I'm not sure why this would have the headline as "Busted!" outside of the fact that they were seen downloading a movie that was already theirs.

    --
    We don't live in Shouldland.
    1. Re:They own the rights... by Rockoon · · Score: 0

      I'm not sure why this would have the headline as "Busted!" outside of the fact that they were seen downloading a movie that was already theirs.

      If they were downloading these movies, then they were also uploading them.

      --
      "His name was James Damore."
    2. Re:They own the rights... by DaveV1.0 · · Score: 1

      If they were downloading these movies, then they were also uploading them.

      Not necessarily true. It is possible to download a torrent without seeding.

      --
      There is no "-1 offended" or "-1 you don't agree with me" mod options for a reason.
    3. Re:They own the rights... by ledow · · Score: 1

      So? They could upload their entire catalogue to an open website, it doesn't mean that you have *permission* to copy it, view it, burn it to a DVD - that's not how copyright licensing works.

      I can request an install disk of a site-licensed piece of software from a company - it doesn't mean they have "given" me a license to use it on my entire site. The license and content are entirely separate and without the license, the content cannot be legally used. Similarly, I can read a book and even own a copy, it doesn't mean I have permission to broadcast it across Times Square.

      Also, we don't know that they uploaded anything. And if they did, we don't know that it was more than the same block over and over again and not a usable copy of the work. And if they did give everyone on the swarm a complete copy, it still doesn't mean they are licensed to view it, especially if the nature of the protocol requires that to check on infringement of their own work.

      It's their work. They can upload it to YouTube if they want and hide it in a private account. It does *NOT* mean that even YouTube itself would get rights to view or distribute it unless contracts that were agreed to said so. With YouTube you have an EULA concerning uploads. With torrents you don't. No licence agreement does not mean "public domain" or even "for your personal use only". It still means "no unauthorised use" by default under copyright law.

    4. Re:They own the rights... by bws111 · · Score: 1

      Which they (and only they) have the right to do, as they own the copyright.

    5. Re:They own the rights... by Rennt · · Score: 1

      They could upload their entire catalogue to an open website, it doesn't mean that you have *permission* to copy it, view it, burn it to a DVD - that's not how copyright licensing works.

      Hang on. If the owner chooses to upload the content to a open website you absolutely have the right to download it. You do not require permission to download it or view it. That's not how copyright licensing works.

    6. Re:They own the rights... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, that part is. But GP does have a point re: copying* -- specifically, them seeding a torrent doesn't permit you to share it back with peers. Although it is contributory infringement...

      (*since courts don't like to give outrageous, but correct, rulings to force Congress to fix legislation, downloading and viewing doesn't count as copying, even though there's perhaps a dozen copies and/or derivative works made in various network buffers, RAM, disk cache, back to RAM, and VRAM)

    7. Re:They own the rights... by tepples · · Score: 1

      they were seen downloading a movie that was already theirs.

      The MPAA is not one company. If someone from Sony downloads a Disney movie outside a specific license agreement, that's still an infringement.

    8. Re:They own the rights... by Em+Adespoton · · Score: 1

      um?

      Every produced work of intellectual property's copyright is held by the producer, unless they choose to transfer it under contract to another party. The copyright holder has complete control over that work, with a few exemptions for satire, political debate, news reporting and educational study. These are *limited* exemptions, and are in place until copyright expires due to time, or due to the holder intentionally releasing the work into the public domain.

      If I write something and put it in a publicly accessible place, I still own copyright... just like a professional photographer owns copyright on photos they take of me, even if they use the photos appear in ads and they have sold copies to me.

      This is what copyright is all about.

      Of course, some countries have specific exemptions. For example, in Sweden and Canada, it is perfectly legal to download music from wherever you want; it's just not legal to upload without permission.

      In the UK and USA, this practice is illegal, and carries criminal (not just statutory) penalties.

  17. Military folks love porn! by gorzek · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I did a search on some IP addresses assigned to overseas US military facilities. Let's just say it turns out US soldiers like transsexuals and big girls. And possibly big transsexual girls.

    1. Re:Military folks love porn! by 1s44c · · Score: 2

      I did a search on some IP addresses assigned to overseas US military facilities. Let's just say it turns out US soldiers like transsexuals and big girls. And possibly big transsexual girls.

      Give us the IPs or it didn't happen.

    2. Re:Military folks love porn! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Give us the names of the films so we can just how big the transsexual girls are.

    3. Re:Military folks love porn! by gorzek · · Score: 1

      Try this one: 68.140.70.159

    4. Re:Military folks love porn! by sorak · · Score: 2

      I did a search on some IP addresses assigned to overseas US military facilities. Let's just say it turns out US soldiers like transsexuals and big girls. And possibly big transsexual girls.

      The military: fighting for our right to spank it to almost any kind of porn we like. I say "you can have your fat transvestite porn, if you want, soldier. You've earned it!"

    5. Re:Military folks love porn! by gorzek · · Score: 1

      Posts like yours are why I wish Slashdot put Facebook "like" buttons on every comment. I would like your comment so hard right now.

  18. Bull by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I call bullshit on the disclaimer."IP addresses can be shared among many people, and anyone can be behind a keyboard at any given time."

    The MPAA and RIAA don't care about that, and they have gone after individuals non-stop dispite that posibility. The courts have just gone along with it as well, so...It IS our intention to get those intities into trouble. Turn about is fair play.

  19. They have the right to distribute the works by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And they gave it to people under no constraints.

    Therefore those people have a legal right to redistribute it.

    Unless FOX et al shared IP they didn't own...

    1. Re:They have the right to distribute the works by icebraining · · Score: 2

      That's not how it works. Copyright law itself imposes the constraints.

    2. Re:They have the right to distribute the works by jedidiah · · Score: 3, Insightful

      They offered their "property" up in a fashion that assumes that other people will continue to redistribute it on their behalf. No pro-corporate legal interpretation of the Copyright Act will really change that.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    3. Re:They have the right to distribute the works by jonnythan · · Score: 1

      Are you on drugs?

      Did you agree to an EULA when you plugged in your TV and started watching Fringe?

  20. How do the pr0n sites make their $$$? Blackmail? by G3ckoG33k · · Score: 0

    "SEXY TIME social network Badoo has become the world's fourth-largest with over 132 million members worldwide and over 1 million in the UK. According to the Telegraph, Badoo is the 'Facebook for sex' but is also widely used as an ordinary social network. Apparently, a third of its British users admitted in a recent survey that they had "met someone for sex" through the web site. [...] Badoo is based in London and owned by a Russian entrepreneur called Andrey Andreev. It takes in about $100m a year in revenues."

    http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/2132141/sex-social-network-fourth-largest

    How do the pr0n sites make their $$$? Blackmail?

  21. Irony by stms · · Score: 4, Funny

    Quick pass PROTECTIP or SOPA and then we can catch these companies pirating content then shut them down for a felony pirating offense since Company=Person=IP address.

    1. Re:Irony by DaveV1.0 · · Score: 3, Informative

      As someone else has stated, as long as the person at the company is downloading the items on the behalf of the company who is the copyright holder, neither PROTECTIP nor SOPA will apply because the company and by extension the person have the legal right to make copies while people who are not authorized to make copies do not have a legal right to make copies.
       
      And, if an employee is downloading without permission and thus making unauthorized copies of a work, said employee is almost guaranteed to be violating corporate use policies and can be fired for such use.
       
      Really, it is that simple.

      --
      There is no "-1 offended" or "-1 you don't agree with me" mod options for a reason.
  22. Re:This story is somewhat confused or editing was by Kjella · · Score: 1

    Well, I haven't heard anyone admit to it but receiving C&D letters was the reason filtering was turned on at a previous employer of mine. And there was no witch hunt tone, just a "This is what we're doing, this is why we're doing it, please remember that what you do on the company network can be tracked back to us and reflect poorly on the company." Never heard of anyone getting punished for it, then again I of course didn't have access to anyone's HR files. That said, I don't live in the US...

    --
    Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
  23. Re:This story is somewhat confused or editing was by AliasMarlowe · · Score: 3, Interesting

    It is possible that an employee of a studio is downloading via torrents without permission.

    I'm flabbergasted that this is actually possible, unless the employee in question is privileged in particular ways, such as by being a network administrator.

    After all, how many people do you know use their work networks to download pirated content.

    None. Those who use torrents do so at home.

    Reputable companies which are large enough to have an IT department will have strict enforcement of many network policies, especially those which are related to commercial risk. Where I work, everything other than ports 80 and 443 must be opened on a per-node and per destination basis. If you need ftp or ssh, you have to state the specific need and how it relates to the business. Also, even ports 80 and 443 are heavily filtered so that social media sites (youtube, facebook, etc.), name redirection sites (dyndns and its ilk), file lockers (megaupload, etc.), webmail (gmail, hotmail, etc.) and all sites hosting questionable activities are blocked. I suspect running a client for IRC or BitTorrent would get you nowhere. There are probably some ways around this, but looking for them would be stupid and might set off career-threatening alarm bells.

    --
    Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. - Voltaire
  24. Re:This story is somewhat confused or editing was by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Good points! But I think I remember the general consensus on /. when a normal human gets accused of pirating is that IP addresses don't prove anything. Hopefully someone can catch them in the act and give this story the proof it deserves.

  25. They have the right by TheSpoom · · Score: 2

    If they're from the studios, they own the copyright to the properties so they have the legal right to download them. Sure, people make the argument that if they're on a BT tracker they're "distributing" the file so they're giving everyone else the legal right to download it, but that's not how IP law works. Besides, they'll say they were only downloading them to support their enforcement actions against other downloaders.

    --
    It's better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.
    - E. Debs
    1. Re:They have the right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      FOX has the legal right to download Universal properties? NBC Universal has the right to download HBO stuff? You didn't read TFA did you?

    2. Re:They have the right by Em+Adespoton · · Score: 1

      "The studios" is not a copyright holder. TFA points out that employees from one studio were downloading content from another. However, as I pointed out elsewhere, that doesn't really matter, as they aren't going to sue their accomplices (and they're not legally bound to).

    3. Re:They have the right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The "studios" are not one big monolithic entity. Each of them was torrenting films belonging to the others. But there's no chance that they'll sue each other for this: they may not be a single entity, but they're certainly a cartel.

  26. They could, but didn't. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They did NOT claim all rights reserved and the mechanism of a torrent is to give rights to redistribute.

    Without an explicit agreement to the contrary, all torrent downloaders and their subsequents have a right to distribute too.

    1. Re:They could, but didn't. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What kind of bullshit is that? 'The mechanism of a torrent' is not a license dumbass. You have it exactly backwards. Without an explicit agreement to the contrary, you have no rights to distribute someone else's copyrighted material, period.

    2. Re:They could, but didn't. by icebraining · · Score: 1

      No, definitively not. Bittorrent algorithms don't replace the law. Copyright law says you can't distribute it unless you have a license that gives you that right, so all torrent downloaders are committing copyright infringement if their torrent client uploads what they've already downloaded. They don't need to claim anything or have an agreement.

    3. Re:They could, but didn't. by marcosdumay · · Score: 1

      Putting a torrent for people to download is a form of contract (where you grant rights - the right to download it, and the right to seed the torrent - and doesn't restict any).

    4. Re:They could, but didn't. by icebraining · · Score: 1

      While there is such thing as an implied copyright license, that would require the downloaders to know the person distributing was in fact the copyright holder. Since I don't see how they could - they only knew its IP, which doesn't prove anything - I find it very hard to believe that a court would agree with that line of reasoning.

    5. Re:They could, but didn't. by mcgrew · · Score: 2

      all torrent downloaders are committing copyright infringement if their torrent client uploads what they've already downloaded

      Yeah? I'm torrenting Mandriva, Kubuntu, Mint, and my own book right now. Oh, and two MP3s of music I wrote that my daughter performed. No copyright is being violated. But your "all torrent downloaders are committing copyright infringement" is just what the media conglomerates want you to think. So please stop it. There is FAR more legal content on BT than illigitimate material.

    6. Re:They could, but didn't. by icebraining · · Score: 1

      Sigh.

      con-text
      Noun:

              The circumstances that form the setting for an event, statement, or idea, and in terms of which it can be fully understood and assessed.

      My post is not isolated, it's in the context of a /. story. So when I say "torrent downloaders", I'm talking about the ones downloading the files being distributed by Sony et all. And if you check TFA, they weren't downloading and distributing Linux distros.

  27. Re:This story is somewhat confused or editing was by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This is almost certainly the case.

    It's not necessarily a low-level employee, though. A high-level person at Sony Pictures has been caught torrenting before. Their people investigated. Actions were taken.

  28. Re:This story is somewhat confused or editing was by Rennt · · Score: 3, Insightful

    It is possible that an employee of a studio is downloading via torrents without permission

    Well yes, naturally. The thing is these companies are the same ones telling courts that an IP address connected to a swarm constitutes positive identification and proof of guilt for whoever the IP address was assigned to at the time.

    If someone from the legal/copyright department is doing so to verify that their content is on the internet, that's well within the scope of their jobs.

    Again, true. And more evidence that an IP address does not equal proof of infringement.

    They deserve to squirm on the hook for this one. Totally a newsworthy story.

  29. Re:This story is somewhat confused or editing was by MightyYar · · Score: 1

    It is possible that an employee of a studio is downloading via torrents without permission.

    Indeed, one of the people with whom we pass around "The Hard Drive" is an IP lawyer for one of the big media companies.

    --
    W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
  30. Someone has never worked in corporate IT by DaveV1.0 · · Score: 1

    An IP address is not a person, IP addresses can be shared among many people, and anyone can be behind a keyboard at any given time.

    Well, actually, in a corporate environment, that is almost always false and in every single corporate behavior policy involving computer and network access I have ever seen it has stated that one is responsible for anything done under one's ID and from one's computer if one is logged into one's computer.
     
    Also, I wonder if the IP addresses are for an open guest internet connection, something several companies I have worked for have had.

    --
    There is no "-1 offended" or "-1 you don't agree with me" mod options for a reason.
    1. Re:Someone has never worked in corporate IT by theVP · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I am going to go out on a limb and say that your corporate environment does not give every workstation their own public IP address.

      --
      "No one is more miserable than the person who wills everything and can do nothing." -Emperor Claudius 10 BC - AD 54
    2. Re:Someone has never worked in corporate IT by Chris+Brewer · · Score: 1

      Unless of course you work for someone like IBM, where every computer has a 9.x.x.x IP address. They may be behind firewalls, but that didn't stop Metallica from kicking me off Napster for having "One" in my shared folder.

      --
      Consultancy: If you're not part of the solution, there's money to be made in prolonging the problem
    3. Re:Someone has never worked in corporate IT by DaveV1.0 · · Score: 1

      My company tracks IP assignments to MAC addresses and machine names and keeps a log of it so they can fire people who are doing things they are not supposed to be doing.

      --
      There is no "-1 offended" or "-1 you don't agree with me" mod options for a reason.
    4. Re:Someone has never worked in corporate IT by theVP · · Score: 1

      Okay, but, again, you're addressing it from an internal standpoint. If people on the other side of your firewall can determine which workstations are doing what on your network, your firewall sucks.

      --
      "No one is more miserable than the person who wills everything and can do nothing." -Emperor Claudius 10 BC - AD 54
    5. Re:Someone has never worked in corporate IT by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm going to go out on a limb and say that you can't find a corporate proxy application that can't correlate the request to an internal IP and UserID.

      Parent is correct; in the same way that ISP's contract the customer to be responsible for data on their connection, companies contract the user to be responsible for access under their login... but parent is also correct in saying that numerous companies have guest access however, this should also be tracked (sign-in sheets etc). Corporate guest WiFi access is still secured (or should be) appropriately.

    6. Re:Someone has never worked in corporate IT by DaveV1.0 · · Score: 1

      That is irrelevant because the company on the outside of the firewall can request and, if necessary, subpoena the information. If Universal went to Warner and said "We have evidence someone in your organization is pirating our IP.", you can pretty much bet that Warner is not just going to cooperate, they will actively assist in the investigation to find and fire the individual in question.
       
        You don't seem to have worked in a corporate environment. You also don't seem to have any clue how companies and corporations interact.

      --
      There is no "-1 offended" or "-1 you don't agree with me" mod options for a reason.
  31. Re:How do the pr0n sites make their $$$? Blackmail by GameboyRMH · · Score: 2

    Haha, I checked it out and found that it fakes results when you hit the homepage. It showed some British-looking women for the IP of an area with no women like that (the closest IRL version of the "women in Low Earth Orbit!" experiment). Also it allows you to sign in with Facebook credentials. What could possibly go wrong?

    --
    "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
  32. Classic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    haha, Now that's funny!

    http://www.LiveQuranRadio.com
    http://www.AllahsWord.com

  33. LOL spoofed IP by sgt+scrub · · Score: 2

    In a response Buma/Stemra issued a press release stating that their IP-addresses were spoofed.

    A spoofed IP address does not receive return packets unless you hijack the address or PAT the specific traffic on the router/firewall responsible for the address. I doubt Buma/Stemra had an outage long enough for someone to snag some files. If someone malicious owns their router/firewall there would be more mischief than this.

    --
    Having to work for a living is the root of all evil.
    1. Re:LOL spoofed IP by powerlinekid · · Score: 1

      As someone posted above this was the worst possible excuse they could have used. First as you pointed out, it would be incredibly difficult to torrent large files over a spoofed IP address without them noticing. Second by making a claim that it is easy to spoof they just threw out the MPAA/RIAA case about IP address = Person. So either way... an employee did it or they invalidate the big enforcement tool against the public.

      Unless they want to say "Its really hard to spoof and 99.99% of the time the IP is the person, but... umm... not us." I get the feeling this is the most likely response.

      --

      can't sleep slashdot will eat me
    2. Re:LOL spoofed IP by blueg3 · · Score: 1

      The BitTorrent tracker protocol does allow you to tell the tracker what your "real" IP address is, in the event it's different from the IP address the HTTP request is coming from. Some trackers honor this field, so it can be used to obtain a list of peers from a tracker while posting a completely-false IP address to the tracker list (since this field is unverified).

    3. Re:LOL spoofed IP by sgt+scrub · · Score: 1

      I think what your referring to is after the dictionary exchange. The GET in HTTP doesn't happen until the client's first ACK, usually the third packet.

      Client sends SYN
      Server responds SYN-ACK
      Client sends ACK with HTTP headers in the body.
      Server sends the dict.

      From that point the UDP connections are made to the seeds. Your probably thinking the switch is made here because some clients have an HTTP client separate from the P2P client. ie. like downloading the torrent file with your browser and "running" it with the torrent client. Yes you could have your browser set to spoof an IP address while the torrent client tells the truth. However, there would still need to be an outage at the original IP address for the HTTP connection to work. You would also need the two clients on separate machines or have multiple IP addresses aliased to your machine.

      --
      Having to work for a living is the root of all evil.
    4. Re:LOL spoofed IP by blueg3 · · Score: 1

      No, I'm not thinking of actual IP spoofing at all.

      I'm referring to the ip parameter of the GET request that's sent to the tracker. Some trackers honor this, some don't. You'd think it would be redundant information, since your IP address is already transmitted as part of the IP packet header, but it isn't always the case that the IP address other peers should contact is the same as the IP address making the tracker GET request (e.g., if you have particular kinds of proxies). This is documented in the BitTorrent specification (Tracker HTTP Procotol: Request Parameters).

      Also, connections to peers aren't over UDP; they're also TCP connections. (Same document, "Peer wire protocol".)

    5. Re:LOL spoofed IP by sgt+scrub · · Score: 1

      So I was correct. You are talking about tracker communication used to keep track of participating clients. "The dictionary exchange", L7. Therefore the client must explicitly state its (external, routable) IP address to be given out to external peers. I'm talking about the process involved in sharing the files, L3. P2P can be set up over TCP but traditionally it is pretty rare. Though I do have to say I'm seeing more and more of it over TCP port 80. Why not over port 443 I don't know but...

      http://www.symantec.com/connect/articles/identifying-p2p-users-using-traffic-analysis

      Today almost all P2P applications using a decentralized structure have a built-in module to fulfill their interaction work, because there are many control purpose packets needed to be sent out to many destinations. A great deal of the modern P2P networks and protocols select UDP as the carrying protocol.

      Why do they select UDP? UDP is simple, effect and low-cost. It does not need to provide guarantee for packet delivery, establish connection, or maintain connection state. All these features make UDP fit for fast delivery of data to many destinations. These are just what P2P applications need. Inspecting different P2P applications carefully, you will find most of the modern decentralized P2P applications adopt a similar network behavior. When they startup, they create one or several UDP sockets to listen, and then communicate with abundant outside addresses during their life by using these UDP ports to assist their interaction in the P2P world.

      --
      Having to work for a living is the root of all evil.
    6. Re:LOL spoofed IP by blueg3 · · Score: 1

      You don't need to talk about P2P in general. This is specifically talking about BitTorrent. The BitTorrent protocol is well-known. Data transfer between peers is done via a custom wire protocol over TCP.

      Further, it's already known that the IP harvesting that produced the data discussed in TFA is performed by BitTorrent tracker scraping, which often reports the IP addresses supplied via the (layer 7) BitTorrent tracker protocol (which is HTTP-based).

      Incidentally, one of the reasons TCP is preferred by BitTorrent is that it works better than UDP over NATing routers, particularly ones that don't do UPnP. Unfortunately, TCP connections require NATing routers to do connection-tracking. BitTorrent can create so many TCP connections that low-grade consumer routers crash from the high connection-tracking demands.

      Of course, BitTorrent isn't really decentralized. That is, the original, tracker-based BitTorrent system isn't decentralized, and that's where the data in TFA comes from. Actual decentralized networks, particularly those based on distributed hash tables (including the DHT later integrated into BitTorrent) does use UDP.

      Port 80 is popular because it's far and away the most likely port to be open on a firewall, more so than 443.

    7. Re:LOL spoofed IP by sgt+scrub · · Score: 1

      Port 80 is popular because it's far and away the most likely port to be open on a firewall, more so than 443.

      More and more IPS devices are tuned to pick up on encrypted traffic over port 80 as a break in policy. If port 443 is used the number of connections would be the only thing left for those devices to pick up on. With sites serving all content over HTTPS, ie. images from image servers, ads from ad servers, etc... all encrypted connections, multiple SSL connections to legit web sites will get much harder to distinguish from P2P traffic. Then they will be left with relying on plain text info in the cert exchange and the amount of content being transferred. When decentralized CA gets here, IMHO, the game will be back in the user's favor. Making a decision based on the amount of traffic transferred is a false positive mine field.

      --
      Having to work for a living is the root of all evil.
    8. Re:LOL spoofed IP by blueg3 · · Score: 1

      Since BitTorrent is a custom wire protocol and not HTTP, what it would need to do is detect non-HTTP traffic over port 80 as a problem. Encrypted data cannot be meaningfully differentiated from compressed data -- though it's possible to look for common protocols (like an SSL handshake).

    9. Re:LOL spoofed IP by sgt+scrub · · Score: 1

      Encrypted data cannot be meaningfully differentiated from compressed data

      It doesn't really need to be. If you use the method like Shane Alcock uses in protoident, check the first four bits against a vector of known L7 protocols, you can usually determine the L7 protocol. You have to completely tunnel over HTTPS to keep the L7 protocol indistinguishable. Of course looking for information in the body of the packet trace_get_payload_from_* for an SSL handshake works too; but, it takes a lot more code and slows down your sensor. ie. regex'ing and sorting and chomping until you get what you want on every packet that doesn't have the SYN, FIN, or RST flag set.

      --
      Having to work for a living is the root of all evil.
    10. Re:LOL spoofed IP by blueg3 · · Score: 1

      Well, tunneling over HTTPS will shout to any analyzer that you're doing an SSL handshake, which they can block by policy.

      It's true that you can write down the start sequences to almost every meaningful L7 protocol and then look for them. That doesn't let you detect encrypted data in the fully general case, but it does let you block lots of protocols you don't like.

  34. youhavedownloaded.com is indeed a troll by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I went to that site from my home and found that it had some 20 character Captcha needed to access, that never worked. I was dumb enough to try several times before realizing I was getting it right every time and I was being trolled. Then I started Wireshark, and watched a flood of port scanning coming in from Facebook IP addresses. It went on for about a half hour and tapered off. I have never downloaded anything illegal and would never knowingly do so. I also have never visited Facebook, or had an account there or on any other form of social media, and never will. I have no idea WTF that youhavedownloaded.com site is, but I sure am learning my lesson about what not to click on. Assholes.

  35. Re:This story is somewhat confused or editing was by icebraining · · Score: 1

    Fortunately people never do anything stupid.

  36. Re:This story is somewhat confused or editing was by icebraining · · Score: 1

    But I think I remember the general consensus on /. when a normal human gets accused of pirating is that IP addresses don't prove anything.

    No. The consensus is that IP addresses don't prove that a particular person downloaded something. But it can definitively prove that it was done by a machine in a particular network, which in this case is the network of those RIAA members. Nobody is claiming a specific employee has downloaded them.

  37. Re:This story is somewhat confused or editing was by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Hahahahaha!

    Sucks to be you. Unless of course, you're in the Nazi IT department. Then you get to ruin someone's career because they tried to load Facebook.

  38. Re:This story is somewhat confused or editing was by DolomiteZipper · · Score: 1

    Maybe thats the whole point of this exercise. Getting the companies to admit that IP address alone don't prove anything, so courts can tell them to back off when they show up with this "evidence".

  39. They get an agreement first by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There is no such agreement with BitTorrent.

    1. Re:They get an agreement first by jpapon · · Score: 1

      No agreement is needed. All that is needed is a copyright notice somewhere in the file. Which there definitely is.

      --
      -- Let us endeavor so to live that when we pass even the undertaker shall be sorry. -- M. Twain
    2. Re:They get an agreement first by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The Bittorrent network is implicitly "take one and pass it on". You can't put something on Bittorrent with fine print saying "p.s. if you passed it on, you violated our copyright". Note that you can't even see the copyright notice until after you've downloaded, at which point you've already been distributing if you're using any typical Bittorrent client.

  40. Re:How do the pr0n sites make their $$$? Blackmail by 1u3hr · · Score: 1

    I'm in Hong Kong, and when I checked Badoo, it showed a map of Hong Kong, and then a dozen mugshots of people (male and female) supposedly looking for "friends" there. Most white, one or two black, not one Chinese. So, complete fake and bullshit.

  41. Plausible deniability by 0dugo0 · · Score: 1

    Opentracker spews out random IPs, scanning them means nothing.

  42. Perhaps a new type of troll should be named? by RulerOf · · Score: 2

    Good grief, are you really that dumb? Presumption of innocence means you are not guilty until proven otherwise (ie at trial). It does NOT refer to what the police do or who they consider guilty (a suspect).

    Answering your question? Yes, he is.

    Shit like this is why you see memes spring out of places like 4chan. An apt, pejorative nickname that describes the behavior of an internet denizen. A good example could be the "White Knight." "Troll" is so well known and obvious that the metaphor contained therein is completely dead; it quite literally means "asshole on the internet who derives increasing satisfaction from the emotional degree of a response solicited by provoking others."

    I suggest we coin a new one for "asshole who takes three sentences of legal concepts, refuses to understand them, points out contradictions that hold only against that ignorance, and then proceeds to rally support from those with just as much or more ignorance (...to be fair, those people are usually called 'sheep')."

    I would propose "iANALyst," but so many people fail so damn hard at finding either shift key, that the integrated puns would likely be lost in propagation. Regarding the shift-key location failure, Slashdot is thankfully the exception, rather than the rule.

    --
    Boot Windows, Linux, and ESX over the network for free.
  43. They aren't pirating... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Fox, Sony, and Universal probably aren't using Torrent to download movies illegally. Their purpose in using Torrent to download would be to see who their peers are - i.e. the OTHER people who are downloading illegally. Then they send warnings to those users thru their ISPs.

  44. Scanning for pirates by Ultra64 · · Score: 1

    They could have been looking for IP addresses to send DMCA notices to.

  45. Re:This story is somewhat confused or editing was by delinear · · Score: 2

    Well then at the very least this highlights that the studios need to clean their own house before they start witch hunts elsewhere. Why they wouldn't have blocked such sites/software is baffling - it's clearly a huge PR loss in the making when they're desperately trying to win the PR war in the eyes of a largely indifferent public. There are also all kinds of laws about agency and when one is acting as an agent of one's company which it's easy to fall foul of.

  46. Re:This story is somewhat confused or editing was by delinear · · Score: 2

    That's the whole point of this story - that by their own rules these IPs show they are downloading when we all know it's not that clear cut. As someone who doesn't download from these sites but who relies on net access for a living, it's a real concern to me that big media can basically extort money from people with nothing more than a number on a piece of paper and a threat of court hassle, but it's even more of a worry when we see ridiculous "three strikes" laws starting to appear which can ruin a career with what amounts to zero real evidence.

  47. Shrinkage? by Sulphur · · Score: 1

    So, if you are working in WallMart, is it normal to eat anything and everything for free?

    If the use by date is expired, then eat away; however, don't try it with something they are trying to sell.

    If one is working in a media company with a DS3 connection, then maybe someone downloads when the boss is not looking. I would look for back room rogues first.

    1. Re:Shrinkage? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If the use by date is expired, then eat away

      Just because they can't sell it doesn't mean it's free.

    2. Re:Shrinkage? by Tubal-Cain · · Score: 1

      Granted, but the Accounting can't tell the difference between "expired and thrown in the trash" vs "expired and eaten"

  48. Re:This story is somewhat confused or editing was by Chelloveck · · Score: 2

    how many people do you know use their work networks to download pirated content

    None, actually. That's a really stupid thing to do...

    Yeah, no kidding. My cable modem is way faster than my employer's measly little 10 Mbit link!

    --
    Chelloveck
    I give up on debugging. From now on, SIGSEGV is a feature.
  49. Re:This story is somewhat confused or editing was by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Hmmm...

    Well if they generate enough traffic they can "prove" that those pirate bastards are stealing all their films, so the whole internet has to be locked up. This smells funny...

  50. Re:This story is somewhat confused or editing was by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Um, not quite. It may prove that the connection went through my router, but it can't tell you which machine. But at least they can be sure it's my router...because I've never heard of anyone spoofing an IP address before...oh wait. Well, I'm sure it tells you something but I don't know what, if anything, it 'definitely proves'.

  51. Turnaround time for mother-may-I Internet at work by tepples · · Score: 1

    If you need ftp or ssh, you have to state the specific need and how it relates to the business.

    How long do these requests take to process?

    Also, even ports 80 and 443 are heavily filtered so that social media sites (youtube, facebook, etc.), name redirection sites (dyndns and its ilk), file lockers (megaupload, etc.), webmail (gmail, hotmail, etc.) and all sites hosting questionable activities are blocked.

    If YouTube is blocked, how long does a request to view a video published by one of the company's suppliers take? If Facebook is blocked, how long does a request by the company's marketing department to update the company's official Facebook page take? If webmail is blocked, how long does a request to connect each employee to the company's Google Apps server take?

  52. I downloaded Ubuntu at work by tepples · · Score: 1

    how many people do you know use their work networks to download pirated content.

    I did. I downloaded a copy of Ubuntu at work, and when Dell was still selling "N series" desktops, my boss ordered a PC with Ubuntu from dell.com to use as a development workstation. Raenex has discovered a technicality of how GPLv2 defines a "work based on the Program", which when combined with GPLv2's vagueness on what constitutes "mere aggregation" makes any Linux distribution including proprietary software a copyright infringement. He bases this analysis on the text of the license, not any non-binding FAQ. Furthermore, Ubuntu includes the video game Quadrapassel, which according to Henk Rogers and Alexey Pajitnov of The Tetris Company is an infringing copy of Tetris.

  53. Head of household is under contract with the ISP by tepples · · Score: 2

    NAT and wifi are two reasons that it could be anyone in the area or household

    Within the household, the head of household is under contract with the ISP not to allow any copyright infringement to happen over the ISP's wire. Within the area, the head of household is under contract with the ISP to use WPA2 with a strong password.

  54. I think the real reason they are downloading by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The real reason that they are downloading a torrent is to verify that they are illegal content so that they can send out those nasty letters to people. Just like you can't use an IP address as a person, you can't say that a filename is a movie or song. You need to know that a person is really sharing something that is in fact illegal.

  55. Different studios by tepples · · Score: 2

    as long as the person at the company is downloading the items on the behalf of the company who is the copyright holder

    But has any evidence come to light that, say, Warner Bros. employees have permission from Universal?

    1. Re:Different studios by Em+Adespoton · · Score: 1

      as long as the person at the company is downloading the items on the behalf of the company who is the copyright holder

      But has any evidence come to light that, say, Warner Bros. employees have permission from Universal?

      No, but I'm sure they'll have it before something like this goes to court.

      That's the thing... copyright holders can grant free access to anyone they want for almost any reason. And they can do it whenever they want.

  56. My IP came up with nothing... by dmacleod808 · · Score: 1

    First I tried with a proxy ID, nothing came up... So it was obviously not reading my cookies. Then I tried with my IP and nothing came up... But then again, I only torrent as a last resort (i use a private encrypted service for most things) and by last resort I mean "so obscure that it is not mainstream" and thus... nothing shows up.

    --
    There Can Be Only One...
  57. Copy-and-paste Defense by scorpivs · · Score: 1

    So, if a private citizen were to site this as a defense in legal procedings ...? "By highlighting the above our intention is not to get anyone into trouble, and for that reason we masked out the end of the IP addresses to avoid a witch hunt. An IP address is not a person, IP addresses can be shared among many people, and anyone can be behind a keyboard at any given time."

    --
    There is nothing to FEAR but NOTHING itself; and I fear there is a whole lot of nothing going on. --scorpivs
  58. Re:This story is somewhat confused or editing was by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Actually no, IP addresses do necessarily prove that either.

    There is no requirement that an IP address cannot change from one machine to another, DHCP is freely allowed to do this, except where IPs have been set staticly. The best an IP proves is what IP was involved. *IF* you have the time and the associated MAC at that time, you start to get provable. Even then there are exceptions.

    CAPTACHA: embezzle

  59. Intent? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I frequently and am currently contracting for Warner Bros. I bring in my own laptop and connect to the internet after receiving a WB owned IP Address via dhcp. I certainly have in the past forgotten that my bit torrent client was running. I am not the only one. Many Thousands of people work at theses companies and people like to download torrents. You can find conspiracies anywhere if you set out to find them; often it's just stupid people like me doing stupid things.

  60. Re:Head of household is under contract with the IS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Violating a TOS of the ISP subjects them to penalties spelled out there, but only to the ISP. This is pretty much going to be limited to termination of service. Agreeing with Cox to not download copyrighted material does not mean accepting legal liability to all copyright holders worldwide.

  61. Re:This story is somewhat confused or editing was by networkBoy · · Score: 1

    We are more relaxed where I am at, but there are still provisions to mitigate commercial risk.
    FTP is banned without a waver.
    SFTP is allowed but you must log in to a proxy for it i.e:
    to get to ftp.example.com :
    ftp open proxy.core.com
    username is user@ftp.example.com
    password is your password at ftp.example.com

    This does two things:
    it gives the proxy server your username and password, which dissuades most people from using it as there is no guarantee that IT won't capture that data, and second the proxy logs the machine account that connected to the proxy server and the username that logged into that account.

    We allow "reasonable personal use" of the internet at the office, so Facebook and such are fine at breaks/lunch/whatever. Proxy bypass sites SSH tunnels, etc. are blocked and while there are ways around that as you noted bypassing the procedures raise alarms.

    I regularly hit proxy blocks in my line of work and my boss gets summary e-mails once a quarter about my hits. He ignores them because one of my jobs is security hardening, so going to blackhat and greyhat sites is part of my job.
    -nB

    --
    whois gawk date unzip strip find touch finger mount join nice man top fsck grep eject more yes exit umount sleep dump
  62. Re:Head of household is under contract with the IS by DeadCatX2 · · Score: 1

    Within the area, the head of household is under contract with the ISP to use WPA2 with a strong password.

    Ah, so that's why my Verizon FIOS router straight from my ISP came pre-programmed with a WEP key...

    --
    :(){ :|:& };:
  63. Re:This story is somewhat confused or editing was by networkBoy · · Score: 1

    We do that here too.
    32 gig thumb drive sneakernet token ring is our carrier media of choice.
    Of course we learned from the mistakes of others like the app team the re-purposed an old staging server to be an MP3 filer...
    things went sub optimally for them.

    --
    whois gawk date unzip strip find touch finger mount join nice man top fsck grep eject more yes exit umount sleep dump
  64. Re:Head of household is under contract with the IS by networkBoy · · Score: 1

    My contract says *nothing* of the sort.
    It has some vague language about not sharing internet service with neighbors, but only to the extent that making my SSID name private_whatever is good enough.
    The router they provided me even has the ability to create a guest WiFi network that can use my internet but not access my LAN, to me that looks as if they expect some level of sharing of my connection.

    Now, that is not to say it wouldn't be prudent to use WPA2, just that it is not required.
    -nB

    --
    whois gawk date unzip strip find touch finger mount join nice man top fsck grep eject more yes exit umount sleep dump
  65. Re:Head of household is under contract with the IS by Just+Some+Guy · · Score: 1

    Within the household where I live and with my ISP [...]

    Fixed that for you. My TOS doesn't look even remotely like that, and I'm running open (but mostly firewalled) WiFi for any of my neighbors who need it - and with the knowledge and assent of my ISP's owner. Don't generalize your own contractual situation.

    --
    Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
  66. Re:Head of household is under contract with the IS by tepples · · Score: 1

    My contract says *nothing* of the sort.

    Yet. I'd guess after a few lawsuits, ISPs will probably scramble to add that to the standard TOS.

    The router they provided me even has the ability to create a guest WiFi network that can use my internet but not access my LAN, to me that looks as if they expect some level of sharing of my connection.

    I'd guess after a few lawsuits, ISPs will start expecting the customer to restrict access to the guest network, handing the password out only to specific trusted friends and relatives, not to leave it open to the world.

  67. Re:Head of household is under contract with the IS by tepples · · Score: 1

    My TOS doesn't look even remotely like that

    This is true, I grant, but will remain true only until the first monthly bill after some ISP gets sued.

  68. Indemnity by tepples · · Score: 1

    Agreeing with Cox to not download copyrighted material does not mean accepting legal liability to all copyright holders worldwide.

    It does if said copyright owner sues Cox and the indemnity clause gives Cox the right to go after a customer to pay any legal fees and/or damages awarded to a plaintiff that sues Cox over that customer's behavior.

  69. Re:This story is somewhat confused or editing was by brit74 · · Score: 1

    how many people do you know use their work networks to download pirated content

    None, actually. That's a really stupid thing to do... The only thing worse than being slapped with a 100k fine for downloading some music is also getting fired over it.

    That's a pretty questionable claim you're making there. At one company I worked at years ago, there was a guy who not only downloaded porn while at work, but he printed some pictures out on the company printer. Conclusion: People do stupid things at work.

  70. Re:Turnaround time by AliasMarlowe · · Score: 1

    If you need ftp or ssh, you have to state the specific need and how it relates to the business.

    How long do these requests take to process?

    No idea what the statistical distribution of lag times is. For the few I've needed (ssh or remote desktop to client sites where we're running process experiments), I was able to open a connection within 30 minutes to 3 hours of requesting it.

    Also, even ports 80 and 443 are heavily filtered so that social media sites (youtube, facebook, etc.), name redirection sites (dyndns and its ilk), file lockers (megaupload, etc.), webmail (gmail, hotmail, etc.) and all sites hosting questionable activities are blocked.

    If YouTube is blocked, how long does a request to view a video published by one of the company's suppliers take?

    Something important from a supplier posted on Youtube??? Pardon my laughter, but this probably never happens. If a supplier has a public video which it's important for us to see, they would put it on their own web site. If it's less than 50MB, they can just email it to us.

    If Facebook is blocked, how long does a request by the company's marketing department to update the company's official Facebook page take?

    We have a corporate presence on Facebook, so there are some marketing-communications groups with permanent access. The remaining 100,000 employees don't need to use Facebook for work purposes.

    If webmail is blocked, how long does a request to connect each employee to the company's Google Apps server take?

    Webmail is blocked because the company has its own extensive email infrastructure and all email is logged for SarBox compliance (among several important reasons). Use of Gmail or other Google Apps (or anything similar) for company purposes is explicitly forbidden. All company-related email must use the official infrastructure.

    This all sounds like control-freakery, but it appears to be part of a system that works. We design and make high tech products, but targeted at different industry segments rather than at consumers. The company is doing quite nicely, with good financial results even in the "recession". Bonuses in 2011 are up on 2010, which were well up on 2009, which were up a bit on 2008. And projections for 2012 are fairly decent also.

    --
    Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. - Voltaire
  71. Re:Turnaround time by tepples · · Score: 1

    If a supplier has a public video which it's important for us to see, they would put it on their own web site.

    And deal with frustrated viewers who get "this web browser doesn't support this codec or this plug-in" messages. What solution do you recommend for publishing videos on one's own web site that automatically transcodes to MP4 in a Flash wrapper, MP4 in HTML5, and WebM in HTML5, at multiple resolutions (240p, 360p, 480p, and 720p), such that preparing the video for public viewing is no harder than uploading to YouTube?

    Webmail is blocked because the company has its own extensive email infrastructure

    I was just confused by a few Slashdot stories over the past year about the pros and cons of outsourcing "extensive email infrastructure" to Google.

    What do employees where you work do on break? Does the company make available, as a perk, PCs in the break room whose web access is not quite as locked down?

    We design and make high tech products, but targeted at different industry segments rather than at consumers.

    Then perhaps my perspective has been skewed by developing and hosting online shopping cart software as a service. Our first major client is a hobby shop selling R/C cars, model trains, and the like, and occasionally, as part of educating myself about the client's needs, I've had to watch public videos published by the manufacturers of the products that the hobby shop sells.

  72. Re:This story is somewhat confused or editing was by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Then don't move to New Zealand. Our law states that an IP is proof.

  73. Right.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    like that stuff can't be faked...no one has really said that the site is 100% verified to be accurate, etc, etc.

  74. Re:Head of household is under contract with the IS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Not completely true. Vivid Wireless (Australia) controls the WiFi WPA key and won't allow you to change it. How can I guarantee legal usage of my service when I have no control over the security & access? I can't so I suspect a lawsuit against any Vivid Wireless customers will fail and be redirected Vivid's way.

    I'm sure Vivid isn't the only ISP to do this.

  75. Re:Head of household is under contract with the IS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Then the ISP can sue for breach of contract. But they're not the party typically
    doing the suing, are they?

  76. Re:Head of household is under contract with the IS by tepples · · Score: 1

    Then the ISP can sue for breach of contract. But they're not the party typically doing the suing, are they?

    That can change very quickly. At one time, the record industry wasn't suing members of the general public.

  77. Re:Turnaround time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I think the biggest issue you're struggling with is that a corporate environment is much, much more different than that of a small business. I work for a building consulting firm with very similar policies[the exceptions being Twitter, Facebook, and Hotmail] and a certain level of standards. In my industry, you wouldn't dream of sending a client/consulting firm/co-worker work related material on YouTube; not only are you opening up your company's business transactions and projects[many of which are confidential] to the public eye, but it's YouTube; it's simply not professional.

    Lunch breaks are usually spent eating, working, or people go out; why would you want to spend another hour sitting behind a computer when that's largely what you do for a career? It's really not as stifling as it sounds; I'm paid to work, not to aimlessly browse the internet.

    But this is the corporate mindset, since you're working with small businesses and clients, YouTube is a little more understandable.