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Dell Ditches Netbooks

angry tapir writes "Dell has ceased production of Inspiron Mini netbooks; in effect ending its pursuit of the receding netbook market, at least for consumer sales. When Dell ran through its stock of the netbooks several months ago, it declined to manufacture more units."

354 comments

  1. next we'll hear that Dell is in trouble... by neurocutie · · Score: 1

    First no tablets, then no netbooks from Dell? Sorry I still believe there is a strong market for sub $300 laptops. I realize that Dell wasn't a big presences in either market, but that's Dell's failing, not a measure of the market and demand itself...

    1. Re:next we'll hear that Dell is in trouble... by Yvan256 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Given that there's 15 inches laptops with higher specifications available for almost the same price, it's no wonder people aren't buying netbooks anymore.

    2. Re:next we'll hear that Dell is in trouble... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      PC manufacturers got tired of churning out netbooks which make them pennies of profit. They all want to be more like Apple so they're focusing on Ultrabooks and Tablets running Windows 8.

      I for one cannot wait to get a dockable Windows 8 tablet.

    3. Re:next we'll hear that Dell is in trouble... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      (1) Sometimes a 15 inch device is bigger than you want to carry around.
      (2) What 15 inch laptop is available for $250? That's what my netbook cost and it runs KDE 4.7 in 64 bit with full desktop effects enabled without problems.

    4. Re:next we'll hear that Dell is in trouble... by mirix · · Score: 2

      That's part of it for sure, however I think the performance of atom processors left a bad taste, too.

      And if you want a netbookish sub-notebook with a real processor, it costs more than a normal size laptop.

      --
      Sent from my PDP-11
    5. Re:next we'll hear that Dell is in trouble... by houstonbofh · · Score: 1

      And if you want a netbookish sub-notebook with a real processor, it costs more than a normal size laptop.

      That is it right here... Poor performance and high price do not go over well.

    6. Re:next we'll hear that Dell is in trouble... by nedlohs · · Score: 5, Informative
    7. Re:next we'll hear that Dell is in trouble... by nedlohs · · Score: 0

      Because a laptop works on the train/plane/etc. Because a laptop is portable.

      A laptop has clear advantages over a desktop. A netbook doesn't have so clear advantages over a laptop.

      Netbooks were great because they were cheap and good enough for web browsing/email. But given laptops are now just as cheap their main advantage just isn't there. Yes they have better battery life and are lighter - but for most people that isn't worth the now price premium they have.

      But seriously, are you truly stupid enough to think that the laptop/netbook differences are in the same vague ballpark as the desktop/laptop difference?

    8. Re:next we'll hear that Dell is in trouble... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A Celeron. Yeah, great buy there...

    9. Re:next we'll hear that Dell is in trouble... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >>I still believe there is a strong market for sub $300 laptops

      You go girl. Don't let those facts dampen your 'belief".

    10. Re:next we'll hear that Dell is in trouble... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You may believe that there is a strong market for a sub-$300 netbook, but, unfortunately, Reality disagrees.

      EVERYONE is getting out of netbooks, that market segment has imploded, and moving to Macbook Air clones. If you're going to carry a laptop (as opposed to a tablet) people want real screens and keyboards.

    11. Re:next we'll hear that Dell is in trouble... by green1 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I'm just not sure there's really much room between the laptop market and the tablet market, people are putting their money on either samll and light, or bigger but more powerful. The netbook really didn't quite fit in either category. Almost powerful enough to be a real computer, and almost portable enough to take with you everywhere... but not quite either.

    12. Re:next we'll hear that Dell is in trouble... by tepples · · Score: 1

      people are putting their money on either samll and light, or bigger but more powerful. The netbook really didn't quite fit in either category.

      I'm willing to take small and light as long as I can run the same applications on it that I can run on an entry-level desktop PC. For a lot of the things I do on a netbook, there isn't "an app for that."

      Almost powerful enough to be a real computer, and almost portable enough to take with you everywhere... but not quite either.

      My experience differs. To me, it is quite both.

      But perhaps there's another reason that Dell abandoned netbooks. Soon after I bought my Dell netbook nearly two years ago, I read an article in Consumer Reports putting it among the worst in battery life: 3 hours vs. 5 to 6 for some other models.

    13. Re:next we'll hear that Dell is in trouble... by tepples · · Score: 1

      A netbook doesn't have so clear advantages over a laptop.

      Less size and less weight in one's bag, for example. I often have a half hour of downtime on public transit, and I spend that time coding on my hobby projects using a Dell netbook. I couldn't do that on an iPad due to Apple's restrictions. And even if that weren't the case, by the time I pack a tablet and an external keyboard, I might as well be packing my netbook anyway.

    14. Re:next we'll hear that Dell is in trouble... by Bert64 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The problem is that cheap laptops came down in price, while netbooks have only gone up in price...

      The original $200 netbooks running linux were great cheap devices for browsing the web..
      The $350 netbooks running windows are just slow and not very cheap windows laptops.

      The linux netbooks were seen by users as a new device, similar to how the ipad is perceived, while windows netbooks were seen as being inferior versions of regular laptops.

      --
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    15. Re:next we'll hear that Dell is in trouble... by gstrickler · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Compared to a netbook with an Atom, it's a steal.

      --
      make imaginary.friends COUNT=100 VISIBLE=false
    16. Re:next we'll hear that Dell is in trouble... by TheEyes · · Score: 1

      I own a netbook myself, and for the same reasons (my brother's 14-inch Envy is a nice bit of hardware, but I'm not lugging around a 5.5 lb laptop, plus charger, when I can carry around a 3 lb netbook and do everything I need to with an all-day battery), but frankly we're a niche crowd. Most people aren't trying to code or type a novel while riding the bus/train to work, and so don't need something that is both extremely portable and conducive to content creation while on the move.

      People like us are going to eventually be served by power-user tablets, like the ASUS Eee Pad Transformer, rather than low-end netbooks. Dell and HP just don't get the margins or volume on low-end 'books to serve our needs, so it's not surprising that they're exiting that market. Maybe some day they'll learn to build a tablet that doesn't suck, and we'll see them re-enter the tablet market; until then we have smaller upstart companies who are building the products we will need.

    17. Re:next we'll hear that Dell is in trouble... by Gadget_Guy · · Score: 2

      Given that there's 15 inches laptops with higher specifications available for almost the same price, it's no wonder people aren't buying netbooks anymore.

      It is true that the full sized laptops have encroached on the netbook market. But Dell definitely lacks any light-weight notebook options. I had a look at their website, and the lightest Dell laptop that is available in my country is 1.56kg.

      Back in the late nineties I got a sub-notebook that weighed 0.85kg (1.87lb), and have never owned a heavier notebook than 1.1kg since. It seems crazy that with nearly 15 years of technological improvements that Dell cannot offer me a similar or better computer.

    18. Re:next we'll hear that Dell is in trouble... by modmans2ndcoming · · Score: 1

      There is a market for sub 300 dollar notebooks.... they are called notebook computers.....I bought a 15 inch Toshiba notebook for my wife... LCD screen, 250 gig HD, 4 gigs of memory, Decent graphics and an AMD cpu for $279. Why would I bother with a POS netbook when I can get a fully functioning PC with a sane resolution?

    19. Re:next we'll hear that Dell is in trouble... by Colonel+Korn · · Score: 3, Informative

      Compared to a netbook with an Atom, it's a steal.

      An Atom-based netbook has its place. Real world 11 hours of battery life with a pretty good keyboard at 2 pounds and a full suite of text-oriented content creation software, for instance.

      --
      "I zero-index my hamsters" - Willtor (147206)
    20. Re:next we'll hear that Dell is in trouble... by hairyfeet · · Score: 4, Insightful

      My guess is they are getting their ass kicked by Asus and don't want to admit they make a lousy product. The EEEs are damned nice little machines, especially the AMD Fusion models and talking to one of the guys I know at the local Walmart he said they are moving those things like there is no tomorrow. 6 hours on a battery charge under Windows 7, 8 hours under Expressgate, plenty of power, plays full 1080p over HDMI, sweet little units. If the Dell Inspiron mini is anything like their Inspiron laptops i can see why folks simply ain't buying, they're junk.

      Maybe they just can't compete with the likes of HP and Asus, who knows. I know I was amazed I could get a fully loaded EEE while adding 8Gb of RAM and a nice little case for it for only $350 but of course that was before the flood, last i checked they are like $439. Maybe they can't score the drives and have given up? In any case i don't think Asus and HP will mind taking the business from dell, not one bit.

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    21. Re:next we'll hear that Dell is in trouble... by Guspaz · · Score: 4, Informative

      That's what the "ultrabook" class is trying to address. They (and devices like them that predate them, like the Samsung Series 9 or the Macbook Air) are largely replacing netbooks in terms of portability. They're typically 11 or 13 inches, and tend to weight 2.5 to 3.5 pounds or so. They're often lighter than a netbook, but have a much larger screen. They also tend to have proper dual-core processors, although they're the ULV (Ultra Low Voltage) kind which means they're clocked lower. Still, a dual-core i5 is still pretty decent, even if it's ULV.

      The downside is price. There are tons of models available for under a grand, but some people want to get the portability for much less. We're not there yet, they still cost too much to make (all ultrabooks use SSDs, so the trick is the cost of enough flash to make that practical), but the cost will probably come down slowly over time.

    22. Re:next we'll hear that Dell is in trouble... by nedlohs · · Score: 2

      Sure, it's just a smaller place than it was. With cheap laptops eating into the buy it because it is cheap end, and ipads and smart phones eating into the care about portability not price end.

    23. Re:next we'll hear that Dell is in trouble... by Guspaz · · Score: 1

      Less size and weight can be achieved without a netbook. Ultrabooks actually tend to be even better than that; they're thinner and lighter than netbooks, but feature larger screens and more performance. The downside is cost; $900-1000 is the cheapest you'll find them.

    24. Re:next we'll hear that Dell is in trouble... by Guspaz · · Score: 1

      I don't think any modern notebook can match 0.85 kg, but you can get a 13.3" notebook at 1.1kg (Toshibz Z830 for example), and I suspect we'll see 11" notebooks hitting that 0.85 kg target at some point.

    25. Re:next we'll hear that Dell is in trouble... by nedlohs · · Score: 1

      Exactly the ones I listed, did just not bother reading the part you didn't quote?

      Or do you also think that "not portable at all" versus "portable" is in the same ballpark as "portable" versus "more portable"?

    26. Re:next we'll hear that Dell is in trouble... by imahawki · · Score: 1

      There is a market for sub 300 dollar notebooks.... they are called notebook computers.....I bought a 15 inch Toshiba notebook for my wife... LCD screen, 250 gig HD, 4 gigs of memory, Decent graphics and an AMD cpu for $279. Why would I bother with a POS netbook when I can get a fully functioning PC with a sane resolution?

      What model? I can't find a 15" laptop of any brand for $279.

    27. Re:next we'll hear that Dell is in trouble... by cervesaebraciator · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Spot on. I bought my Dell Mini back when they first came out. I was thrilled with its combination attributes. It was a cheap and small computer that I could easily stash in my satchel when I was in the library or going to teach knowing that it would still be running when I pulled it out later. I hate having to lug a full laptop about campus but I don't want to do without a keyboard. I was also very pleased that I wouldn't have to remove Windows from it. While its battery life isn't quite what it was, it is still running well and I am still happy with it. When the Mini finally kicks the bucket, I'm going to have a hard time finding something that fills its niche so well. The combination of attributes that made the netbook so useful to me is, for the most part, no longer readily available on the market.

    28. Re:next we'll hear that Dell is in trouble... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Did you use the top port, the bottom port or the back port?

    29. Re:next we'll hear that Dell is in trouble... by hairyfeet · · Score: 2

      Uhhh...I paid $300 for my EEE with the AMD E-350 dual core in Aug (well $350 after I threw in 8Gb of RAM and a nice briefcase style case for it) and it plays L4D, does full 1080P over HDMI, hell i'm even using it to edit audio multi-tracks with Audacity. What EXACTLY do you call a "real processor" anyway?

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    30. Re:next we'll hear that Dell is in trouble... by Attila+Dimedici · · Score: 1

      The thing is the market for netbooks is cheap (less than $250). The market for tablets is a similar price point to cheap laptops ($350-$700). The problem is that the manufacturers want to sell netbooks in the cheap laptop price range. At that price point there just isn't much of a market.

      --
      The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
    31. Re:next we'll hear that Dell is in trouble... by erroneus · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I would be more inclined to look in Microsoft's direction. Microsoft doesn't like Dell selling anything that doesn't have a Microsoft OS on them. Windows 7 can't really run on netbooks. Microsoft wants XP to go away. XP is the only Windows OS that can really run on a netbook. So it would make sense that Dell might be getting some pressure from Microsoft to stop selling netbooks. It wouldn't be the first time Dell bowed to pressure from Microsoft.

    32. Re:next we'll hear that Dell is in trouble... by Gadget_Guy · · Score: 1

      I don't think any modern notebook can match 0.85 kg, but you can get a 13.3" notebook at 1.1kg (Toshibz Z830 for example),

      I have owned a couple of Toshiba Portégés over the years, so I do have a Z830 on my shopping list. However, my point was that Dell has nothing at that level. I can understand that 1.1kg might be extreme, but Intel's Ultrabook specs call for a maximum of 1.3kg and Dell can't even match that weight.

      and I suspect we'll see 11" notebooks hitting that 0.85 kg target at some point.

      Maybe. After all these years I was beginning to think that they wouldn't, but the competition with tablets might keep the pushing them down.

    33. Re:next we'll hear that Dell is in trouble... by symbolset · · Score: 1

      I have a hunch you're going to wait. And it's not going to be what you're hoping for.

      --
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    34. Re:next we'll hear that Dell is in trouble... by hedwards · · Score: 0

      You're missing the point, they're small, light, durable and cheap. They also provide bare minimum performance to handle the web and email.

      This whole attitude here is one of the main reasons why their not doing well these days. Granted there's a lot of marketing that's gone into convincing people that they need more power and that MS has been leaning hard on manufacturers, but still.

    35. Re:next we'll hear that Dell is in trouble... by aXis100 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I dont agree. I bought a $300 netbook and I love it. the blend of power and portability is ideal for me.

      With a keyboard built in, it is far superior for typing than a tablet, and if you stick it in a simple sleeve it's not that much bigger. Real world all-day battery life is better than any regular laptop. And with dual core and a low end 3D graphics card, it's powerfull enough to play some games on low res.

      If I want something ultra-portable I'll just use my smartphone, and if I want something ultra-powerfull I'll use my desktop PC. The netbook fits in beween perfectly.

      Personally I think tablets are a solution looking for a problem that doesnt exist.

    36. Re:next we'll hear that Dell is in trouble... by icebraining · · Score: 1

      Because I need to walk around carrying it?

      I preferred to spend $500 and get a slightly more powerful 12", but if you want cheap, small and light, a netbook is all there is.

    37. Re:next we'll hear that Dell is in trouble... by 0123456 · · Score: 2

      Or do you also think that "not portable at all" versus "portable" is in the same ballpark as "portable" versus "more portable"?

      The main advantages of the netbook over the laptop was always that it was 'more portable' than a laptop. I don't know anyone who bought a netbook just because it was cheap, but I know plenty of people who bought one because it was half the size of the laptop and had a much better battery life, so it was 'portable' in many situations where the laptop wasn't 'portable' at all. I bought mine because I was going abroad for a few weeks and wanted a computer which I could afford to lose and which wouldn't be a pain to carry around with me all the time.

      A $250 15" laptop is no replacement for that. Nor is a tablet with a crappy touch-screen keyboard.

    38. Re:next we'll hear that Dell is in trouble... by nomadic · · Score: 2

      The weird thing about netbooks is there were sub $200 netbooks for a while but every manufacturer started upping the stats and prices on them and basically turned them into regular laptops.

    39. Re:next we'll hear that Dell is in trouble... by AuMatar · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I bought one of the first generation EEE PCs and loved it. I'd never buy another netbook again. What killed them wasn't tablets, it was smart phones.

      I mean I really want one of two things- a full computer to be usable anywhere, or a computer that can be used anywhere. For the first, they have the laptop. For the second, they have the smart phone. The downfall of the netbook is it won't fit in your pocket. I never actually took my netbook anywhere except vacations because I still had to carry it. May as well bring a laptop then, the only advantage of the netbook was the weight. I have no use for something bigger than my pocket unless I need to do serious work which requires a full sized keyboard, and in that case I want a full sized screen. Tablets and netbooks both fail.

      Netbooks and tablets both are evolutionary dead ends. In 10 years the only computer you own will be a smart phone, and you'll plug it into a docking station when you need a full keyboard (and some of those docks may be laptop sized for business trips).

      --
      I still have more fans than freaks. WTF is wrong with you people?
    40. Re:next we'll hear that Dell is in trouble... by realityimpaired · · Score: 2

      For what it is, it *is* a great buy. I'm typing this on a laptop with a Celeron U3600 1.2GHz dual core, with 2GB of RAM, and it is plenty adequate for my needs. Most users just surf the web, check facebook, and watch Youtube from time to time. Throw in an e-mail client, and you're good to go. This system also handles some light gaming (tuxkart, supertux, eskiss)... when I want to play more hardcore games, that's what my desktop is for. If all you want to do is type documents, surf the web, and check your e-mail, then that is plenty of power.

      It's nothing an Atom couldn't do. Or an ARM system, for that matter. And the ARM would blow even the Atom out of the water for battery life. But find me an ARM-based 15.6" laptop, will you? Or even an Atom-based system with a screen like that. There's a usability limitation with the smaller screen you find on an Atom or ARM-based netbook, not to mention the keyboard (about 13" is the smallest laptop I've seen with a keyboard I can actually type at speed on... on a 12.1" system, the keyboard is usually either smaller, or a weird layout).

    41. Re:next we'll hear that Dell is in trouble... by jbolden · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I agree. A $100-200 device, 7 in with a keyboard running Android makes sense. An 11 inch windows "netbook" for $350 doesn't when you can buy a laptop for not much more.

    42. Re:next we'll hear that Dell is in trouble... by realityimpaired · · Score: 1

      http://configure.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?oc=nb_v131l_t20_e&c=ca&l=en&s=bsd&cs=cabsdt1&model_id=vostro-v131

      They do exist for less than that. The Vostro V131 is $329, for example. It's a 3.2lb 13.3" ultraportable. But you do compromise a little on the system to get it for that price: it's a celeron, and only 2GB of RAM. The battery life isn't the best, either. That said, it comes with Ubuntu preinstalled, and has a matte finish on the screen. I have the preceding version of it (the V130, bought in August), and I'm very happy with it. Much happier than I was with the Atom-based netbook I replaced.

    43. Re:next we'll hear that Dell is in trouble... by neurocutie · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I have owned a couple of Toshiba Portégés over the years, so I do have a Z830 on my shopping list. However, my point was that Dell has nothing at that level. I can understand that 1.1kg might be extreme, but Intel's Ultrabook specs call for a maximum of 1.3kg and Dell can't even match that weight.

      I have had many Porteges. Not one could hold a candle to my ASUS EEE's 8 hour battery life. Not even close.

      Show me a laptop/notebook that costs $250 or less and has an 8 hour battery life and weighs 1kg and *then* I'll believe that netbooks are worthless...

    44. Re:next we'll hear that Dell is in trouble... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Mine is running Win7 Ultimate and Ubuntu 11.10 64 bit. Runs faster with 2d in ubuntu. I'd rather not carry around a big laptop around. I'm guessing they are ditching netbooks because there is more profit to be made with "ultrabooks" and hope people will switch to them.

    45. Re:next we'll hear that Dell is in trouble... by nedlohs · · Score: 1

      And other people bought netbooks because they were cheaper. They wanted something portable to browse the web/email but didn't want to spend lots of money. As laptops also came down to $250 they buy them instead of a netbook. The sales figures make that pretty obvious.

      For the advantage comparison. If there were no netbooks in existance at all would you have taken a laptop on your trip abroad? What about laptops like the 11" MacBook air? If you were rich enough to be able to afford to lose it? Now you mightn't, but some people would.

      Now I use a laptop on short trips. If there were no laptops would anyone bring a desktop on the train? I'm going to go out on a limb and say *nobody* would bring a desktop to use on their train commute, if they couldn't bring a laptop for some reason.

      Thus the difference between a laptop and a netbook isn't as large as the difference between a laptop and a desktop.

      Nobody (well I'm not, I'm sure there's an idiot somewhere) is saying netbooks are useless. Nobody is saying they don't have advantages over laptops. All that is claimed is that they have fewer advantages relative to laptops than laptops have relative to desktops.

    46. Re:next we'll hear that Dell is in trouble... by westlake · · Score: 1

      The linux netbooks were seen by users as a new device, similar to how the ipad is perceived, while windows netbooks were seen as being inferior versions of regular laptops.

      The problem with this theory is that the Linux netbook Titanic went straight to the bottom when it struck the XP iceburg,

    47. Re:next we'll hear that Dell is in trouble... by jcr · · Score: 1

      Sorry I still believe there is a strong market for sub $300 laptops.

      Then start a business and see if you're right. I suspect Dell knows a bit more about this than you're guessing they do.

      -jcr

      --
      The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
    48. Re:next we'll hear that Dell is in trouble... by a_hanso · · Score: 1

      I own a Dell Inspiron netbook as a secondary device. My experience is the same. It's an ideal mix of power and portability for someone who actually wants to produce content on the go. Tablets are great for content consumers. But I'm not one of those.

    49. Re:next we'll hear that Dell is in trouble... by Dzimas · · Score: 1

      My Aspire One (with dual core Atom and 2GB memory) runs Win 7 just fine. Unfortunately, MS requires netbook manufacturers to cripple their machines with a max of 1GB RAM and a dismal 1024*600 screen to get the discounted OEM licenses that they need to sell with Windows. *that* is the real and overlooked story here. As for tablets, they're brutally hard to use for real work. Coding? Design? CAD? Scientific modeling? There isn't a (decent) app for that.

    50. Re:next we'll hear that Dell is in trouble... by NoobixCube · · Score: 2

      I have an EEE Pad Transformer, so I get the best of both the netbook and tablet worlds ;) That said, I paid twice as much for the privilege... But Dell must surely be in trouble, I mean, they would obviously benefit from as much market coverage as possible, even in smaller market spaces. Tablets are a growing market, and Dell are doing themselves and their shareholders a grave disservice by calling it quits. I loved the Streak 5, their phone/tablet abomination, and I'm disappointed (though unsurprised) they discontinued those. If Dell are pulling out of more and more markets, it says to me they're losing money.

      My advice: Either make Alienware products worth the price tag, or bring the price tag down to match, because currently they're no match for Asus' Republic of Gamers label. Second, put out a Tegra 3 tablet, Asus are the only opposition there, and if Dell hits the right spot in the market, they can have a success on their hands. Third, shit or get off the pot when it comes to Linux. Either they should maintain their own Ubuntu distribution, so they can have a full vertical slice and compete with Apple, or they should just give up on Linux. Currently, they basically install it without even checking to see they've got all the necessary drivers (or IF there are appropriate drivers at all) before they ship, there's no QA.

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    51. Re:next we'll hear that Dell is in trouble... by HarrySquatter · · Score: 1

      Except that Celerons kick the ass of Atoms any day of the week.

    52. Re:next we'll hear that Dell is in trouble... by HarrySquatter · · Score: 1

      The linux netbooks were seen by users as a new device, similar to how the ipad is perceived, while windows netbooks were seen as being inferior versions of regular laptops.

      No, Linux netbooks were seen by the vast majority of users and something they didn't want hence the high return rate until netbooks started featuring XP.

    53. Re:next we'll hear that Dell is in trouble... by Belial6 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I disagree. Tablets serve a purpose. On the other hand, tables are also a netbook that generally haven't been manufactured with a connector on the bottom that allows a keyboard to be added that makes it a netbook.

      It isn't so much of a debate of which will win in the long run, but how long it will take for the inevitable convergence.

    54. Re:next we'll hear that Dell is in trouble... by 0123456 · · Score: 1

      For the advantage comparison. If there were no netbooks in existance at all would you have taken a laptop on your trip abroad?

      No. I've carried a laptop on enough trips to know there's no way I want to take one when I don't have to. I just throw the netbook in my carry-on bag and forget out it because it's so small and light in comparison.

      And the netbook is coming up to three years and still working fine, which is more than I can say for my last laptop.

    55. Re:next we'll hear that Dell is in trouble... by mirix · · Score: 1

      I suppose hudson might have shook things up a bit, lately. I've never used a machine with one, so I'm not familiar with the performance.

      I was thinking before that, when you had a choice between cheap atom based netbooks, and expensive sub notebooks (say IBM X series - which are quite nice, but 3-4x the price, at least). That's when things went stagnant for them, anyway.

      --
      Sent from my PDP-11
    56. Re:next we'll hear that Dell is in trouble... by ElectricTurtle · · Score: 1

      I have had a Dell Inspiron 1121z (aka "Mini 11z") for half a year and can honestly say it's not crap. I know Dell makes a lot of crap, I've had to service Dells in one way or another for much of my decade of IT work, but seriously for the price it's very solid and well designed. Performance is better than most thanks to the fact that it runs a Core i3 instead of a shitty Atom or Celeron. The only annoying things about it hardware wise are that arrow keys tend to stick when debris gets anywhere near them, and the old DB15 port doesn't let you screw in. Battery life with a 3 cell (default) is mediocre, but if you spring for a 6 cell it's competitive.

      It's all moot now that they're exiting the space.

      Something you need to bear in mind is that companies like HP and Dell don't make their own shit, they buy it from designers (Original Design Manufacturers, ODMs) in Taiwan, and contract to have their logo slapped on to it. That's why quality can very so much model to model, because Dell might be using Quanta for one and Compal for the next, and HP might use Arima (now Flextronics) and later Wistron. Buying by brand name from somebody who just farms everything out is pretty pointless, and there is no major laptop brand in the US that makes its own stuff. When you buy anything like that it should be based on expert reviews, not brand name, especially in any kind of "budget" category since you usually get what you pay for.

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      I support the Slashcott and will not be reading or commenting from 2/10/14 to 2/17/14. Beta is steaming pile of dog shit
    57. Re:next we'll hear that Dell is in trouble... by nedlohs · · Score: 1

      A macbook air weighs 1kg and is 30x20x2cm. Surely that's small and light enough?

    58. Re:next we'll hear that Dell is in trouble... by MightyYar · · Score: 1

      Sorry I still believe there is a strong market for sub $300 laptops.

      Of course there is, but why would you want to sell into that market? The profit must be incredibly slim. You'd have to be in it for some strategic reason.

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    59. Re:next we'll hear that Dell is in trouble... by Leuf · · Score: 1

      The nice thing about my netbook is that it doesn't cost $100/month or more to do anything with it.

    60. Re:next we'll hear that Dell is in trouble... by dbet · · Score: 1

      15" seems to be around the same size as an actual notebook, so it fits in with other stuff people are likely to be carrying, and fits nicely in a backpack. Anything between 15" and a cell phone needs special carrying anyway. By that I mean you need some kind of pack or case or some way to carry it, it's too big for pocket ot belt clip. So I see very little reason for almost anyone to like something that's say, 11". The drop from 15" to 11" offers no advantage, and it cuts the screen small enough to be uncomfortable to use in a normal computer way.

    61. Re:next we'll hear that Dell is in trouble... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The difference is that you've got a real, albeit low power, GPU in with your device- the netbooks with Atoms can't claim this and suffer in several areas.

    62. Re:next we'll hear that Dell is in trouble... by AuMatar · · Score: 1

      Neither does a cell phone if you keep it in wifi only mode. And a netbook with access to the cell network for increased connectivity will be just as expensive.

      --
      I still have more fans than freaks. WTF is wrong with you people?
    63. Re:next we'll hear that Dell is in trouble... by hairyfeet · · Score: 1

      Well I can tell you that while it of course isn't gonna compete with my 6 core with an HD4850 it is a pretty damned nice mobile unit IMHO and frankly I'd say it beats Atom+ION as far as battery life + performance goes.

      For $350 I got a EEE with an 8gb of RAM upgrade and 320gb of HDD space that has full VM capabilities, is powerful enough i use it as a mini music studio (thanks to Audacity, Acid, and hydrogen) and even under load it barely gets warm to the touch and I get around 6 hours of watching HD video or music creation out of it, what's not to like?

      I'd say the reason the Dells bombed is they stuck with the lower end Atom chips and without ION frankly those things are just painful to use. while i'm sure they make Intel money simply because they are so damned cheap to make they really aren't nice to use either on Linux or Windows. The E-350 units on the other hand are quite pleasant, so much so that after trying a couple of them i had picked up for customers I sold my Athlon dual for the EEE and frankly haven't regretted it for a second.

      So I think netbooks still have plenty of sales left, just not with shitty Intel Atom chips. Although it may simply be the fact that Dell just can't score the chips to compete and chose to bail instead. its pretty well known that Bobcat and bulldozer are proving to be so popular for AMD they haven't been able to keep up with demand and according to The Reg they quit making AM3 chips so they could use that capacity for Bobcat and Bulldozer. I wouldn't be surprised if Asus and HP already had contracts in place that got them first shot at the chips and Dell which has been typically an Intel only shop simply couldn't score any Bobcats.

      But if you haven't tried one of the E-350 units i heartily recommend them. I mean where else you gonna get a sub $400 machine that only weighs 3 pounds, gets 6 hours on a battery, easily takes 8Gb of RAM, has full VT support, and even does 1080p over HDMI?

      I haven't seen any laptop close to those specs without shelling out more money or dealing with a bigger clunkier unit. All the Dell units I looked at were Atom units which after trying several customer's netbooks (which they always brought me asking "Can you make it faster?") frankly I wouldn't take Atom on a bet. With the EEE I can surf, watch a video and have a chat window open and its still snappy, with the Atom units they always felt like they were struggling. So if all Dell could come with was the Atom goodbye Inspiron, I doubt you'll be missed.

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    64. Re:next we'll hear that Dell is in trouble... by hairyfeet · · Score: 1

      Hi Oaktrail! Did you run your main account into the toilet again with your crazy conspiracy theories? Sorry to hear about that. Hey did you hear my business is doing so well i treated myself to a nice new AMD 6 core AND a new Asrock gamer board AND i'm building my GF a quad? yeah things are going great, let me leave you with my new song! We Wish You A Merry Thuban,We Wish You A Merry Thuban,We Wish You A Merry Thuban and a happy six coooorrres!

      I'm sorry you're a bitter fanboi who backed a dead horse but look on the bright side, in 2014 I'm sure they be plenty of old XP junkers nobody wants you can dumpster dive! Merry Xmas!

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    65. Re:next we'll hear that Dell is in trouble... by itsme1234 · · Score: 1

      I never actually took my netbook anywhere except vacations because I still had to carry it. May as well bring a laptop then, the only advantage of the netbook was the weight.

      Let me guess: you fly for vacation and go anywhere else by car.

    66. Re:next we'll hear that Dell is in trouble... by bemymonkey · · Score: 2

      Higher specifications? If you're talking about CPU, graphics power, RAM size and hard drive capacity, yes.

      If you're talking about other "specifications", such as:

      -Decent real world battery life
      -Fitting in just about any old bag
      -Being light enough to actually carry around all day without being annoying

      Then there's no 15" laptop that comes close.

      I'm currently using a 12" ultraportable as my main machine, but would actually consider a 10" machine with the same resolution, internals and battery life (10 hours and up)... oh, and a trackpoint.

      It's unfortunate that 10" is dying as a form factor - having a full x86 laptop that fits into a slightly oversized jacket pocket is great... lord knows my Thinkpad won't fit, no matter how hard I try :(

    67. Re:next we'll hear that Dell is in trouble... by bemymonkey · · Score: 1

      Unless you need more than an hour of non-dimmed use with WiFi and the CPU actually doing anything other than idling, of course...

    68. Re:next we'll hear that Dell is in trouble... by bemymonkey · · Score: 1

      We still need a 9-inch and 10-inch category with decent performance and resolution though... I'd love my Thinkpad to shrink down to 10" while still keeping all the features and the same screen resolution.

    69. Re:next we'll hear that Dell is in trouble... by Luckyo · · Score: 2

      I was looking for a work laptop to give to my mother for her birthday about six month ago after she said complained her current one to me a few times. We went to a large shop and I offered her a lot of these big laptops (I didn't know that her employer would pay for it but figured I could afford anything below 600 or so). Her verdict was crushing: "Why would I want to lug around something this big and heavy, I'm just a small woman".

      Essentially I sat down with her and talked to her about her priorities. They were in order of importance:

      1. She can use her office suit and a couple of specialized pieces of production software on it (needs to be win xp or 7).
      2. As light as possible.
      3. As small as possible.
      4. Reasonable battery life.

      Nothing else mattered to her. Literally. Of two 10 inch netbooks she fell in love with in the store after me trying to get her to get interested in 15inch models, I tried to offer her the more powerful version or the ten inch one with nvidia ion on board. Her verdict? "What are the differences? Is it going to be heavier? No? Oh, it's going to run a little hotter and have a little less battery time? No thanks."

      Fact is, there is apparently plenty of people out there to whom bigger screen size means more weight to carry around = bad thing. To nerds like us who want desktop space it's an upgrade. I could barely use the 10 inch screen desktop, and many configuration menu buttons were actually not fitting the screen in defaul menu views.

      Guess if my mother cared about this? I honestly never heard her gush half as much about any birthday present I got her before this laptop. I can't ever see myself use a computer with screen that small. And my mom? I don't think she'll ever get a portable with bigger screen then those 10".

    70. Re:next we'll hear that Dell is in trouble... by ozmanjusri · · Score: 1

      I bought one of the first generation EEE PCs and loved it.

      Same here, and I've replaced it with an Asus Transformer, which is a much more versatile machine.

      --
      "I've got more toys than Teruhisa Kitahara."
    71. Re:next we'll hear that Dell is in trouble... by Fishchip · · Score: 1

      But not cheap enough. There's this whole ratio of price to performance to weight that the 'Oh, just buy a Celeron laptop if you want cheap' or 'Just buy a Macbook Air if you want very portable' crowd (basically the 'netbooks are dead' crowd) can't seem to get their head around all at once.

      Like a few others here I have an E-350 netbook. I absolutely love it. It runs rings around an Atom netbook and the GPU ensures moderate gaming isn't akin to a root canal. It's only slightly bigger than my Eee 1000HA. It wasn't that expensive. There's my three checkmarks. =)

    72. Re:next we'll hear that Dell is in trouble... by justforgetme · · Score: 1

      yes!
      until it runs out of electricity in 23 minutes.

      --
      -- no sig today
    73. Re:next we'll hear that Dell is in trouble... by AuMatar · · Score: 1

      I live in America- if you want to go anywhere you have to fly, no high speed rail.

      Doesn't matter, the netbook still has no advantage over the laptop. The annoyance of a laptop is having to carry it. Either you need to lug around a backpack or you need to lug it around under your arm just like a laptop. Both are a pain in the ass, I hate carrying things. So I'm not going to do it- I'm going to just bring my cell phone unless I absolutely need a full computer, in which case I'll bring the laptop. I don't need the hassle of synching files to a third device. It needs to fit in my pocket, or it's no advantage over just bringing the laptop.

      --
      I still have more fans than freaks. WTF is wrong with you people?
    74. Re:next we'll hear that Dell is in trouble... by justforgetme · · Score: 1

      Yes!
      But what happens when the celeron runs out of steam?
      Which it will inevitably do.
      After 11 minutes.

      --
      -- no sig today
    75. Re:next we'll hear that Dell is in trouble... by Luckyo · · Score: 2

      Asus EEE PC pushes around 6-7 hours with decent screen brightness, decent CPU usage (watching h.264 720p w/o hardware acceleration) and Wi-Fi (internet connectivity) and bluetooth (headphones) on.

      My 15" laptop's battery dies in about two hours with that usage.

    76. Re:next we'll hear that Dell is in trouble... by cgenman · · Score: 2

      If Dell stays in markets that it can't compete successfully in, it will definitely be in trouble. But nobody but Apple makes money on Tablets, and nobody seems to make money on netbooks. Getting out of both seem like good ideas.

      Generally, not cutting losses is how companies get into trouble.

    77. Re:next we'll hear that Dell is in trouble... by Luckyo · · Score: 1

      Netbook fits into a stylish woman handbag. Notebook does not.

      Courtesy: my mother, happy user of her notebook for some six months now.

      Believe it or not, many people care about things that you don't, and don't care about things you do.

    78. Re:next we'll hear that Dell is in trouble... by FireFury03 · · Score: 1

      You're missing the point, they're small, light, durable and cheap. They also provide bare minimum performance to handle the web and email.

      This whole attitude here is one of the main reasons why their not doing well these days. Granted there's a lot of marketing that's gone into convincing people that they need more power and that MS has been leaning hard on manufacturers, but still.

      Yes, I think the netbook market has evaporated because the vendors have largely missed the reasons why the original netbooks sold so well: they were cheap low power machines. Then people started saying "I want windows instead of linux" and the vendors dumps linux installs and moved purely to windows. Then people realised that this was rubbish because windows can't run on such low power hardware. The vendors upped the hardware spec so it could run windows satisfactorily and thereby took away the things that made the netbook good in the first place. Basically, they took a good product that filled a niche and ruined it, then wondered why no one wanted them any more.

    79. Re:next we'll hear that Dell is in trouble... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      10" you can squeeze it in and out of a cramped backpack.
      15" means 5 minutes of packing out and in before and after airport security checks.

    80. Re:next we'll hear that Dell is in trouble... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It is rather on the large side, and especially for the price far, far, far too fragile. You can't just push it into a full bag. That it is so thin makes it actually _worse_.

    81. Re:next we'll hear that Dell is in trouble... by Rockoon · · Score: 1

      Well I can tell you that while it of course isn't gonna compete with my 6 core with an HD4850 it is a pretty damned nice mobile unit IMHO and frankly I'd say it beats Atom+ION as far as battery life + performance goes.

      I think "stomps all over it" is the correct performance comparison. For gaming the E-350 even bests core i5 solutions in GPU-bound games (which is almost always the case with IGP's) like Modern Warfare 2.

      In CPU-performance, there isnt an Atom that performs better (most are much worse) and the E-350 uses less power.

      People say how AMD isnt competitive in the high end, and they are right.. AMD doesnt even have high end parts! But on the same token, Intel has absolutely nothing that can compete with AMD's E-350 anywhere near its price point, nor do they have anything on the horizon that might touch it.

      Add to this that AMD now has the E-450, with only a very small increment in clock speed but adds "Turbo Core" onto the GPU getting as much as 22% more FPS in games, a huge improvement.

      I am strongly considering building an E-450 desktop system for my guest room, because it can be done for under $150.

      --
      "His name was James Damore."
    82. Re:next we'll hear that Dell is in trouble... by theArtificial · · Score: 1

      Thanks for the laugh!

      --
      Man blir trött av att gå och göra ingenting.
    83. Re:next we'll hear that Dell is in trouble... by pecosdave · · Score: 2

      Running on battery I plugged my EVO into my Acer AspireONE while driving to/through Louisiana. My girlfriend ran the thing for a good three of four hours using the EVO as a USB network device to browse the web, which meant not only was it holding itself up but it was charging my EVO while the EVO was moving data. We shut the netbook down when we got to where we were going.

      Fine, WiFi was was disabled on both devices at the time, but I still call that impressive for a dual core Atom.

      --
      The preceding post was not a Slashvertisement.
    84. Re:next we'll hear that Dell is in trouble... by makomk · · Score: 2

      As far as I know, the only Linux netbooks that saw a high return rate were MSI ones which didn't have working drivers installed for a lot of the hardware that they shipped with and were advertised as having.

    85. Re:next we'll hear that Dell is in trouble... by Lumpy · · Score: 1

      The 525 dual core atom is a fine performing netbook processor. and honestly you are not using a netbook for high power number crunching.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    86. Re:next we'll hear that Dell is in trouble... by hitmark · · Score: 1

      Those used to be known as ultra-portable laptops, but was marketed more towards corporate road warriors then latte sipping digi-moms.

      As for the issue of SSD price, that is mostly from people insisting on Windows. XP got used early on because it only needed 1.5GB or there about, while Vista needed somewhere closer to 15 (and Win7 is not much better). This before trying to cram such things as office packs on there. In contrast the early netbooks came with small (cheap and low performing) SSDs and a streamlined linux distro that left plenty of room even with openoffice installed.

      --
      comment first, facts later. http://chem.tufts.edu/AnswersInScience/RelativityofWrong.htm
    87. Re:next we'll hear that Dell is in trouble... by hitmark · · Score: 1

      In other words, netbooks shave off what little margin there is left in the personal general computer market.

      --
      comment first, facts later. http://chem.tufts.edu/AnswersInScience/RelativityofWrong.htm
    88. Re:next we'll hear that Dell is in trouble... by hitmark · · Score: 1

      Something like the Motorola lapdock+webtop? And yes, they also sell a less marketed media dock that basically turn your phone into a desktop computer.

      I am just waiting to hear that Android have been modified to change size, shape and resolution on the fly, going from phone to tablet/laptop when docked in some way. WebOS Enyo was demoed as capable of this, but HP did not seem to make a big push towards that kind of docking.

      --
      comment first, facts later. http://chem.tufts.edu/AnswersInScience/RelativityofWrong.htm
    89. Re:next we'll hear that Dell is in trouble... by hitmark · · Score: 1

      I wonder how much of that price comes from the honking big battery housed in the keyboard part (similar to why the Motorola Lapdock costs so much).

      --
      comment first, facts later. http://chem.tufts.edu/AnswersInScience/RelativityofWrong.htm
    90. Re:next we'll hear that Dell is in trouble... by itsme1234 · · Score: 1

      It's not only about high speed rail, it's also about buses and subways. Of course if you drag with you two tons of car it doesn't matter much if you have one extra kilo or not.
      No device will fit everybody, if you buy something which you carry only on vacation and maybe sometimes from the parking lot to the building of course you don't care much about weight and size.

    91. Re:next we'll hear that Dell is in trouble... by hitmark · · Score: 1

      Bluetooth works, and most of them have a micro usb ab port that can handle hid devices via a micro to full size converter. Only thing missing is the ability to balance it all in your lap.

      --
      comment first, facts later. http://chem.tufts.edu/AnswersInScience/RelativityofWrong.htm
    92. Re:next we'll hear that Dell is in trouble... by hitmark · · Score: 1

      And that is the funny thing. AMD may have done a better job with Bobcat than Bulldozer.

      I just hope Bobcat sales can keep them afloat to fix the Bulldozer mess.

      --
      comment first, facts later. http://chem.tufts.edu/AnswersInScience/RelativityofWrong.htm
    93. Re:next we'll hear that Dell is in trouble... by zevans · · Score: 1

      My Advent (rebadged MSI Wind) will JUST fit into the map pocket of a Gore-Tex. (10" 1024x600)

      Whether you can "see any reason" or not I can tell you this is THE most useful portable device I have ever owned.

      --
      "... and more and more now there are all kinds of electronic goodies available" -- Pink Floyd 1972
    94. Re:next we'll hear that Dell is in trouble... by f()rK()_Bomb · · Score: 1

      Wow, only pay $50 a month in Ireland for unlimited contract.

      --
      "The space elevator will be built about 50 years after everyone stops laughing." - Arthur C. Clarke ~1980
    95. Re:next we'll hear that Dell is in trouble... by shellbeach · · Score: 1

      Same here, and I've replaced it with an Asus Transformer, which is a much more versatile machine.

      If the Asus Transformer could run LyX, LaTeX, Darktable, GIMP, Open Office and R, and gave me 160Gb of storage space to boot, then I'd agree with you. But it can't -- it's a great piece of hardware, but ultimately it's just a web-surfing toy that isn't good for anything other than basic typing. In comparison, I wrote several scientific papers on my Acer Aspire One whilst travelling this year.

      I've played with the original Transformer heaps, and I think the Transformer Prime is going to be the greatest tablet available, period. But I still can't see any reason at all in buying one -- I can't do work on it, and I can do my web surfing just as easily on my phone which fits in my pocket.

    96. Re:next we'll hear that Dell is in trouble... by shellbeach · · Score: 1

      Doesn't matter, the netbook still has no advantage over the laptop. The annoyance of a laptop is having to carry it. Either you need to lug around a backpack or you need to lug it around under your arm just like a laptop.

      You've clearly never owned a netbook -- they fit in the inside pockets of small backpacks and weigh nothing. Laptops, on the other hand ... well, good luck carrying one of those around the world and carrying anything else with it.

    97. Re:next we'll hear that Dell is in trouble... by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      That's part of it for sure, however I think the performance of atom processors left a bad taste, too.

      The incompatibility of AMD processors left a bad taste, too. AMD R690M-based machines will only run Vista properly, they crap on everything else. I've got a $350, 11-inch netbook with a 1.2 GHz Athlon 64 where I can't use AMD-V because the vendor locked it out and I can't use anything but Vista because AMD didn't produce drivers for any other OS.

      My next portable device will be ARM-based. Fuck intel and fuck AMD. Hello Transformer Prime. At least I still haven't ever been fucked by Asus.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    98. Re:next we'll hear that Dell is in trouble... by Fri13 · · Score: 1

      I have Asus 1000HE laptop what batterylife with Asus own measurements were 7 hours. I got 5.5-6 with full brightness, WLAN on and surfing web or watching videos.
      I have never liked idea to dim display down if it just ain't too bright (low light environments, usually none as I have always kept lights on).
      I use Linux as OS and I chose Arch Linux distribution for that because speed and lightness. Of course KDE 4.8 beta2 is on it by same reasons (GNOME 2.x and 3.2 and especially Unity has been slow as hell) with every window effect on.

      Now, after ~30 months, the battery has started to show signs of weakening. I have used every day it empty and charged up on night. Now I get only a 4 hour time for battery. But it is still enough. I have been planning to buy a new model from Asus, those slim ones, but 10" netbook with a 1280x800 resolution (I want bigger resolution) what could give the 8-10h battery with full brightness.

      If some people want to use their laptops to keep batterylife up, they can stop enjoying their laptops. I want better quality and I would very cladly take a ARM netbook with 20h+ battery. Size does matter, weight does not. Even a 1.5kg netbook 10" screen and slim is fine.

    99. Re:next we'll hear that Dell is in trouble... by Attila+Dimedici · · Score: 1

      I happen to think that there is a market for cheap, "underpowered" netbooks. I may be mistaken but I believe that people would be willing to buy netbooks that are underpowered by today's standards if they were cheap. There are two problems. The first is that the retailers and manufacturers don't want to make just 5% (or whatever the margin is on standard laptops) of $150-$250, they want to make 5% of $400-$700. The second is that as soon as a manufacturer starts to sell a significant number of "underpowered" netbooks at the price point and margin, some other manufacturer undercuts their margin and sells a more powerful netbook for just a few dollars more. Instead of doing what I think would chase those manufacturers who don't want to sell at the netbook price range out of the market (which is to slice margins on the "underpowered" netbook and lower prices), most manufacturers introduce a performance competitive product at the slightly higher price point (a price point which keeps rising until it is the same as the cheap end of ordinary laptops).
      If I was in that market, I would sell a small (7-9 inch) netbook at around $200. It would be the most powerful components I could sell at that price point with a razor thin margin. I would not upgrade the components on it (unless more powerful components became cheaper than the ones I originally used) until I could sell it at the margin I really wanted at $100. At that point I would introduce a new, more powerful model at the $200 price point with the same original razor thin margin.

      --
      The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
    100. Re:next we'll hear that Dell is in trouble... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The little princess style scarf and kids clothes
      Many a young girl like princess style of fan, this kind of scarf can say that fully meet princess style pursuit. The wool cloth with soft nap of warm and noble's small luxury, twist and small individual character of design and color, small sweet meet girls dress up as tender small psychology. Such a scarf existence even if, integral collocation dress of dress to also not afraid some dark, window a is enough. The weather turned cold, cold winter give yourself the most warm is dressed up, let this winter because you look good and be wonderful. A beautiful scarf can not only bring warm temperature, tie-in dress up to can be more icing on the effect. Look at Europe and the girl with the situation, the tide take from the street, do the trend of the fashionable girl. Not only are girls, fashion, and some children are very trend, and their mother always dressed them very eye-catching, kids clothes tend to be personalized and is now international, in the streets of Europe and America, we often see mothers with beautiful children, beautiful children's clothing they wear, it can be said to lead the world of children's fashion model. I think that the baby clothes is becoming mothers increasingly important consideration.

    101. Re:next we'll hear that Dell is in trouble... by Kjella · · Score: 1

      The main advantages of the netbook over the laptop was always that it was 'more portable' than a laptop. I don't know anyone who bought a netbook just because it was cheap

      Not just because, but's it's certainly a part of it. I have a big desktop with plenty CPU, RAM, GPU etc. when I need it, I bought a little netbook to have at the other end of the scale. The most important part was that I had no performance requirements to speak of at all. Now that it was both portable and cheap was certainly good, but I can't pretend to be that much of a road warrior that 1 kg vs 2 kg or 4 vs 8 hour battery life time is really that essential. For the same price, I might have gone bigger, after all some things like full size keyboards are comfy and it would let me do a bit more serious stuff even though it's just nice-to-have. But so is honestly the extra netbook features too. My smart phone also now covers some of the uses I'd have fofr the netbook, pushing me back towards a more traditional laptop when I first carry one. It isn't by any means a replacement but they cover a spectrum from "always in my pocket" to "big stationary desktop" where laptops, nettops and possibly tablets (not so far) are all somewhat overlapping.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    102. Re:next we'll hear that Dell is in trouble... by LinuxIsGarbage · · Score: 1

      I agree! I haven't seen any creep in the Starter specs from MS, so they are the same as they were 2 years ago (1GB RAM, 250GB hard drive, anemic Atom), which is almost the same as it was 3.5 years ago except the hard drive went up to 250GB from 160GB. And 3.5 years ago the machines were considered under-powered!

      Why not offer Home Premium at an attractive price for netbooks that aren't as low end?

    103. Re:next we'll hear that Dell is in trouble... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I see two things about your statement that seem like backward relics:

      1. Keyboard.

      What you're really getting at here, is that most content creation tasks suck on a touch interface. They particularly suck on a smartphone, despite the prevalence of texting, to the point where smartphones are mostly "read-only" content consumption devices, with, oh yeah, a special connection-oriented voice communication app built in. Wouldn't it be awesome if instead of phone numbers everybody picked a url-like unique ID, much like email? I wonder if that's workable.

      2. Docking station. I'd say that's the evolutionary dead end.

      Maybe this is just disagreeing with terminology, but I don't know why there would be a docking station. I'd say you'd have a smartphone and a distinct physical machine or machines, sync'd wirelessly. Having to carry around a physical token is just an artifact of today's technology, not a hypothetical post-portable-PC world. If the cost of the processor part of a cellphone and/or non-cellphone computer was so significant as to make docking desirable (after deducting the cost of the docking interface), then I think all of most people's devices would slide further in the direction of dumb terminals to web services. The one thing that docking makes relatively easy is syncing a new machine (eg. the future hotel's terminal). But this model still allows you to "dock" your cellphone in that you pair it to the local terminal, and then a second later it's done, syncing all your stuff, and your cellphone is disconnected again.

      Most people still have a device that does "television" (even if it's really their desktop computer running Hulu) - there's a consumption application that is shitty on a smartphone form factor, but doesn't need a keyboard. Tablet or fixed screens (eg. actual TVs) shine for these applications. General web surfing is still a thing, too. It's tolerable at best on most phones, but doesn't usually need a keyboard either unless you type giant slashdot posts.

      What I'm getting at is that you've covered extreme portability with the smartphone, and extreme content creation with the keyboard and full-size screen device you dock to, but you haven't covered the extremes of content consumption. And I think extreme content consumption is by far the most interesting and popular case for the general populace. Content creation is a sideshow and portability is a compromise -- one that you didn't tolerate for consumption, so why would you tolerate it for creation?

    104. Re:next we'll hear that Dell is in trouble... by helix2301 · · Score: 1

      Well the other issue was they were selling them dirt cheap with Ubuntu and a small Hard Drive. The problem with that was people could not store much and most people do not understand Linux. I had several users asking me operational questions the situation got even more intense when they started using the Netbook version of Ubuntu that really confused users tremendously.

    105. Re:next we'll hear that Dell is in trouble... by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      Nope, too big to lug around. I like my Acer's 11 inch screen, and it's run everything I've thrown at it. It streams videos while torrenting bits and serving files to the "big" computer without a hiccup, so it's plenty powerful for everything I need it for.

      Hell, the first TV I ever bought had a 12 inch screen. Mybe you kids need glasses?

    106. Re:next we'll hear that Dell is in trouble... by pryoplasm · · Score: 2

      There is already a market that does exactly that, and it is called a cell phone....

      --
      Those who live by the sword, get shot by those who live by the gun...
    107. Re:next we'll hear that Dell is in trouble... by hairyfeet · · Score: 1

      While I agree that the E-450 isn't a bad chip if it were me I'd be looking at something like this E-350 board for less than $100 that not only takes 8gb of DDR 3 (cheap ATM) but also has a PCIe slot so you can even go hybrid crossfire later to get even more performance out of it.

      But you are absolutely 100% correct when it comes to Intel not having anything in that price range. I tried several Atom units and frankly even with XP they were painful to use, and with Win 7 Starter it was just awful. My E-350 is frankly delightful to use, is always snappy, and with 8Gb of RAM superfetch keeps ALL my apps preloaded into memory, ready to go instantly. All the Atom units I saw had 2Gb RAM limitations thanks to Intel being afraid of killing their shitastic Celeron sales.

      Frankly that is why i don't understand everyone saying "Herp derp AMD can't compete herp derp" when frankly the ultra top end market has ALWAYS been a teeny tiny niche compared to mainstream and value which is a HUGE market. And lets face it as you said its not the CPU that is the bottleneck in most apps, its the GPU and/or the HDD. I think AMD has gone down the right route in making sure that even their low end have damn nice GPUs because the world is becoming more multimedia heavy by the day and with OpenCL more and more apps are gonna be able to take advantage of that GPU

      I'm just glad I scored my EEE when I did along with picking up a Thuban 6 core earlier this month when I found out they have killed the AM3 socket. i don't know if you heard but the Bobcat and Bulldozer sales were so fricking huge (which really doesn't sound like "they can't compete" to me) that they went ahead and killed AM3 a couple of quarters early just so they could give that fab capacity to Bobcat and Bulldozer. I walk into Best Buy or Walmart and where once was Intel all the way down frankly there is only a couple of $1000+ Intel units and ALL the rest of their stock is AMD. And you look at Tiger or Newegg and they have the Bobcat in everything from netbooks to HTPCs to all in ones.

      So I personally would say the numbers are showing AMD is competing just fine. After all you can't sell more chips than you can make and AMD has both TMSC and GloFlo cranking chips as fast as they possibly can and still can't meet demand. HP and Gateway are cranking out A Series laptops like there is no tomorrow and Asus and Acer are cranking out E and C series netbooks as fast as they can roll them out the factory. I know that trying to score one on Cyber monday was impossible, while Atom laptops were going for as low as $189 I never saw them go out of stock. meanwhile I went everywhere from Amazon to tiger looking to score an E or C series for a family friend and all I saw from 2AM on on cyber Monday was "sold out". I'd say the numbers are showing both that netbooks still have plenty of life with good chips and that AMD putting powerful GPUs in their units is the right way to go.

      Of course you ought to see the looks on people's faces when i'm doing sweet jumps in Vice City or bashing zombies in L4D on my little EEE, I've even had a few ask me why I was watching a video of a game because they simply can't believe a little unit like that can game!

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    108. Re:next we'll hear that Dell is in trouble... by tepples · · Score: 1

      The problem with a smartphone is that almost all the devices are priced not for sale to end users but for sale to carriers who bundle them with a 24-month commitment to a data plan and then proceed to bundle the data plan with a 24-month commitment to a voice plan that includes more minutes in a month than I'll use in a year. That and they're way too small for touch typing, even for people like me who can touch type just fine on a netbook.

    109. Re:next we'll hear that Dell is in trouble... by hairyfeet · · Score: 1

      Well I don't believe in letting bitter sad old troll like Oaktrail ruin you day. i mean the poor guy has been following me around off and on for months just so he can post "die you fat fucker" or variations on that theme for months, but why should that bother me? Life is good man, i have a great family, my oldest is on the dean's list and top of the class and everyone talks about what a great guy he is, my family is doing well, I usually have more business than i can handle, and I have a sweet little Cherokee princess that loves to cook for me. Oh and all my PCs are maxed out and insanely overpowered. What's not to like?

      I've found you wanna just ruin a troll's day? Just let 'em know you are happy, wish them a nice day, and let them stew in their hate. life is good man, don't let the haters ruin your happy. I've got a great songwriting partner, working on a new album, business and home life is going good, and I spend my weekends with just the sweetest gal you'd ever want to meet. What do I have to be unhappy about? Life is too short, enjoy the goodness and let the haters rot, they phase me not at all. We Wish You A Merry Thuban,We Wish You A Merry Thuban,We Wish You A Merry Thuban, and a happy six coooorrrres!

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    110. Re:next we'll hear that Dell is in trouble... by tepples · · Score: 1

      It isn't so much of a debate of which will win in the long run, but how long it will take for the inevitable convergence.

      That depends on whether device manufacturers want the convergence to happen. Apple, for example, intentionally maintains a noticeable gap between the iPad and the MacBook Air.

    111. Re:next we'll hear that Dell is in trouble... by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      My Acer's about the same size and a little lighter than a hardbound book. I've never used a backpack and I've lugged books around for half a century, the computer's no big deal to carry. It would be if it were fifteen inches; I wouldn't want to lug around any of those big coffee table books.

      It fits nicely under the car's front seat, too.

    112. Re:next we'll hear that Dell is in trouble... by tepples · · Score: 1

      1. She can use her office suit and a couple of specialized pieces of production software on it (needs to be win xp or 7).
      2. As light as possible.
      3. As small as possible.
      4. Reasonable battery life.

      How about a tablet? From a tablet, you can VNC into a PC running Windows 7, her office suite, and the specialized software. Or does she also expect to use it away from Wi-Fi coverage without having to pay $50/mo for cellular Internet service?

    113. Re:next we'll hear that Dell is in trouble... by Belial6 · · Score: 1

      That part can even be handled by a third party. A clamshell that has the keyboard built in, and has a space for the screen to snap in, and the iPad becomes a small laptop. install a VNC client, and you could even use OSX, Linux or Windows 7 from it.

    114. Re:next we'll hear that Dell is in trouble... by hairyfeet · · Score: 2

      Question: If the current units works well, why not just get another battery? One of the things I looked at before buying my EEE (12 inch E-350 model) was batteries and frankly the Asus models have plenty of third party battery makers. hell i think they even offer a 10 or 12 cell version for your model which would give you something like 14 hours on a charge.

      Personally i'm a big believer in "if it ain't broke" and it sounds like your unit is still doing great. BTW if you do decide to switch you ought to look at the EEE E-350 12 inchers which IMHO is just the perfect size and screen res (1366x768) and weighs less than 3 pounds. Oh and the Zacate dual core frankly stomps the Atom when it comes to performance and is pretty damned good for battery life. i get around 6 hours plus on my 6 cell watching 720p videos on it, just a great little unit.

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    115. Re:next we'll hear that Dell is in trouble... by Attila+Dimedici · · Score: 1

      Really? I have a cellphone and it is none of those things. It is a device I use to place phone calls. I know people who have cellphones that double as computing devices. They are generally terrible as devices to have a phone conversation on. They, also, do not function very well as computing devices either (although they are great for playing games). I want a cell phone that is good for having a conversation on and I want a netbook that is acceptable as a computing device. These are devices that have different purposes and thus should have different form factors. Every attempt I have seen at combining these in one device has been a failure at both.

      --
      The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
    116. Re:next we'll hear that Dell is in trouble... by MattBD · · Score: 1

      I've got a Dell Mini 10v and it's an awesome machine. I previously had an Asus Eee PC, and while it was fine for what it was, the Xandros-based distro that shipped with it was utter crap, and the keyboard and screen were just too small to be that much use. My Mini shipped with Windows XP, but I installed the netbook edition of Ubuntu Lucid and that works really well. It's powerful enough for most of what I do, including fairly heavy-duty web browsing, mucking about with various scripting languages, and the odd game of Homeworld on occasion, yet it's small and light enough that I can just slip it in my bag and go. It's actually by far the single machine I use the most, in preference to my 2008 MacBook and a bigger, more powerful Dell laptop.

    117. Re:next we'll hear that Dell is in trouble... by dzfoo · · Score: 1

      the retailers and manufacturers don't want to make just 5% (or whatever the margin is on standard laptops) of $150-$250, they want to make 5% of $400-$700.

      In other words, they want to make money and do not feel that a razor thin margin is justified or worth the trouble or risk.

      If I was in that market, I would sell a small (7-9 inch) netbook at around $200.

      That's fine, except that most businesses are in it for the money, not to serve some market that may or may not be there for the sake of making cheapskates and poor folk happy.

      Apple is making money hand-over-fist with high-end "ultrabook" and notebook computers, and that's with high margins. This market seems to keep growing while the "netbook" market appears to have dried up or flattened out. Is it any wonder why everybody else wants to join into this profit pool? Maybe they are tired of not making money, continually lowering their prices to compete.

                -dZ.

      --
      Carol vs. Ghost
      ...Can you save Christmas?
    118. Re:next we'll hear that Dell is in trouble... by AuMatar · · Score: 1

      Yes, they weigh nothing in backpacks. But the only reason to have a backpack is if you're carrying a computer around. If you don't need the netbook, you leave the backpack at home which is much more convenient.

      --
      I still have more fans than freaks. WTF is wrong with you people?
    119. Re:next we'll hear that Dell is in trouble... by dzfoo · · Score: 1

      I remember those days. While the tech media and the geeks were regarding them highly, people were not buying them.

      Talk to anybody at Best Buy or such store and they will tell you that the regular folk were buying them thinking they were very cheap laptops and a great bargain, and then just as rapidly returning them when they discovered that they ran some philistine operating system that they've never seen; or those that ran Windows were too slow and couldn't play the latest games or videos or whatever.

      I always suspected that the market for cheap, underpowered devices was a lot smaller than most of the tech rags admitted. Apparently Dell have come to the same conclusion the hard way.

              -dZ.

      --
      Carol vs. Ghost
      ...Can you save Christmas?
    120. Re:next we'll hear that Dell is in trouble... by hairyfeet · · Score: 2

      That is what is both funny and sad, Intel pushes the celery for the low end while at the same time crippling its power saving ability to try to force you to get a better chip. Staples seems to be the worst when it comes for pushing the celery and i don't know how many times i've had customers come in with "Hey i got this new machine, can you make it last longer on a battery?" and give them my usual 'Sure, just get a nice car battery and put in on a trolley".

      I wonder if that is why both Best Buy and Walmart seems to have abandoned Intel on all their low and midrange units? I walked into Walmart the other day and frankly didn't see a single sub $1000 Intel unit in the store, it was AMD Fusion stickers as far as the eye can see. Not that I blame them, I have a EEE E-350 and the battery life is great (6 hours plus) without dragging ass like the Atom or killing batteries dead like the celery. I'm just glad it looks like AMD has pretty much killed the sempy, now maybe the celery will die and we can finally get rid of the shitty crippled CPUs once and for all.

      Oh and I know you're joking but sadly you aren't far off, I had a customer bring in a unit she got last year at the staples Black Friday the weekend after she got it wanting to know "What's wrong with this?" and when I fired it up that celery went from a full charge to dead battery in 33 minutes! I told her "I hope you have a really REALLY long extension cord, because you sure ain't gonna be running this heifer on a battery". she was so pissed she sold it on Craigslist and had me get her a little Athlon dual that got about 4.5 hours with Wifi and screen brightness cranked. After seeing how badly that celery sucked the power I won't take another celery unit, even if it is offered to me dirt cheap!

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    121. Re:next we'll hear that Dell is in trouble... by Hal_Porter · · Score: 1

      watching h.264 720p w/o hardware acceleration

      I'll never understand why Intel didn't put H.264 in the GPU in the N570. I'm writing this on a 1015PX. It does Youtube 720p video pretty well but it needs around 50% CPU usage. Windows 7 has the hooks for H.264 hardware acceleration but the GPU only implements Mpeg 2. Most cellphones SOCs have hardware accelerated H.264 decoding despite having a lower transistor budget than an Atom. HD video performance is pretty much the only thing that people complain about on netbooks. Adding support for H.264 in the chipset would have ended those complaints. Plus of course the power consumption would have been lower compared to decoding on the CPU.

      --
      echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
    122. Re:next we'll hear that Dell is in trouble... by hairyfeet · · Score: 2

      Meh, I bet I could get Win 7 OR XP purring like a kitten on that baby. here is what you do: Download and run SIW (free and no need to install it, just a single .exe for the portable) and find out what the hardware is and then simply bypass the OEM and go straight to the vendors. If I had to guess you are looking at an AMD GPU with Realtek sound, download the latest drivers straight from Realtek and AMD and you are good to go.

      But I have several machines where the vendor said "We don't support OS (insert Windows version)" where I just said "meh" and went right around the stupid OEMs. All run just fine, purr like little kittens. Hell look up "Windows ultimate driver DVD" and throw that on a stick if you want an easier time, you'll just have to let Windows take about a half an hour to scan the stick and load the correct drivers. its really not hard Drinkypoo, just takes a little geek know how and a hearty "fuck your crappy support Mr OEM" attitude.

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    123. Re:next we'll hear that Dell is in trouble... by Attila+Dimedici · · Score: 1

      In every market there are two business strategies to success. The first is Apple's, which is to be the "high value" provider. The "high value" provider can survive with large margins, but must maintain the perception that they sell a higher value product than their competitors. The second is to be the "low cost" provider. The low cost provider must deliver the product at a lower cost to the end user than their competitors (which generally requires selling in large volume). The thing is that in any given market, there is only room for a limited number of companies pursuing either strategy. Right now, there are lots of companies pursuing the "high value" model in the portable computing market, but none embracing the "low cost" model.
      Dell is an example of a company that rose to prominence as the low cost provider of computers. They have fallen on hard times because they have both failed to maintain a reputation as a low cost provider and to establish a reputation as a high value provider..

      --
      The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
    124. Re:next we'll hear that Dell is in trouble... by s73v3r · · Score: 1

      Sorry I still believe there is a strong market for sub $300 laptops.

      So you're saying that Dell's army of market researchers and experts was a waste, and they should have just come to ask you?

    125. Re:next we'll hear that Dell is in trouble... by alcmaeon · · Score: 1

      Personally I think tablets are a solution looking for a problem that doesnt exist.

      Which either explains why, in some alternate dimension, tablets aren't selling like hotcakes but netbooks are or, more likely, why you aren't an analyst.

    126. Re:next we'll hear that Dell is in trouble... by neurocutie · · Score: 2

      Sorry I still believe there is a strong market for sub $300 laptops.

      So you're saying that Dell's army of market researchers and experts was a waste, and they should have just come to ask you?

      mmm, sure... yes. I am certainly saying that Dell is wrong about the netbook (and tablet) market. And surely you are NOT saying that Dell's "army of market researchers" is any more infallible than HP's army of market researchers that ended up losing $3B+ for HP on webOS and Palm and created the whole TouchPad fiasco and nearly led HP into oblivion by deciding to sell off HP's PC division. Dell could never be as stupid as those guys, right? But even HP is still in the netbook and tablet market...

      as I said in the title, it wouldn't surprise me to hear that Dell is in trouble some day soon...

    127. Re:next we'll hear that Dell is in trouble... by ifiwereasculptor · · Score: 1

      At least I still haven't ever been fucked by Asus yet.

      FTFY. Sadly, all companies screw us up in one way or another. Delivery problems, shitting on the environment, crappy products, early discontinued support etc. Intel and AMD aren't usually that bad as far as I'm aware, but then again I usually buy whatever is mainstream to avoid the kind of issues you seem to be experiencing. My condolences.

    128. Re:next we'll hear that Dell is in trouble... by hitmark · · Score: 1

      I think i have seen some cases like that for iPad already. And i recall Samsung selling such a bundle for their UMPC back in the day (i think one guy is using the keyboard that came with it to this day).

      --
      comment first, facts later. http://chem.tufts.edu/AnswersInScience/RelativityofWrong.htm
    129. Re:next we'll hear that Dell is in trouble... by jvin248 · · Score: 1

      That's because the el-cheapo Windows 7 home requires massive computing performance compared to that machine running Windows 98/me from ten years ago. I run Linux but even that has a few more lines of code than caparable LInux from that era.

    130. Re:next we'll hear that Dell is in trouble... by jvin248 · · Score: 1

      Agree. Good that Dell is focusing on fewer machines (like Apple .. compare sales vs machines and you'll see the complexity that Dell has given itself - which is all cost structure). Put machines at $200 or lower and people will buy them like crazy... they did when you could get them on regular sales for under $200. But a lot don't do that now that the cpu power has improved and they 'run' windows7. With linux they fly (mine does). But then the media and manufacturers are all pushing the "I gotta be an iPad" market now. But try writing any kind of document on a tablet and it's annoying. Netbooks are just a more portable laptop .. and isn't that the whole point to getting such a machine? If you're looking for raw cpu power then you are better off getting a standard desktop/tower format.

    131. Re:next we'll hear that Dell is in trouble... by Belial6 · · Score: 1

      There are. I have one for my android tablet also. They just haven't caught on yet. They will.

    132. Re:next we'll hear that Dell is in trouble... by shellbeach · · Score: 1

      Yes, they weigh nothing in backpacks. But the only reason to have a backpack is if you're carrying a computer around. If you don't need the netbook, you leave the backpack at home which is much more convenient.

      For you, maybe ... but I take a backpack most places anyway. And I'd guess you could throw your netbook in a briefcase just as easily if that's the way you roll (never tried this since I don't own a briefcase and hope I never will ... but netbooks are small and thin enough).

      OTOH, if you don't need to have a high-powered computer with you, then I completely agree about just carrying your phone around. But sometimes I need a real computer on the road -- and for those situations, a netbook is perfect for me. Does everything I need it to, has heaps of battery life and doesn't take up space or weight. Maybe it's a little slower than my core i7 laptop, but it's fast enough for most things.

    133. Re:next we'll hear that Dell is in trouble... by Luckyo · · Score: 1

      Tablet is a TOY. Not a production machine. Please understand this simple fact. It's a great thing to passively watch something off, and utterly useless for productivity suites.

    134. Re:next we'll hear that Dell is in trouble... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well the netbook market isn't as big as it once was. The main appeal of the netbook was it's portability and price tag. Now on the portability side you have tablets and smart phones. On the price tag side, now you have actual notebooks encroaching on the once untouchable price point. I still own a couple of netbooks (a Dell Mini 9 and recently purchased a Mini 10.) I like the netbook form factor and long battery life for travel use and general use around the house. However, for actual grunt computing I use a Core i5 laptop or desktop machine. The netbooks are used mostly for net surfing and email.

    135. Re:next we'll hear that Dell is in trouble... by Gadget_Guy · · Score: 1

      And yet other companies can make computers that happily run Windows 7 at the 1.1kg mark: Toshiba Portété, ASUS Zenbook and MacBook Air ranges for example. There is no technical reason for Dell to have their lightest unit at 50% heavier than this level.

      Intel made the Ultrabook specifications to have a maximum of 1.3kg, and I am sure that they would provide the technical details to help manufacturers use Intel chipsets to make systems at that weight.

    136. Re:next we'll hear that Dell is in trouble... by rsborg · · Score: 1

      Sorry I still believe there is a strong market for sub $300 laptops.

      Then start a business and see if you're right. I suspect Dell knows a bit more about this than you're guessing they do.

      -jcr

      I'm 99% with you on most of your opinions, but keep in mind, at some large companies, a project/product not only has to be profitable, but needs to get insane ROI to even get approval for funding. Bean counters at large companies aren't even looking for growth anymore, they're looking for insane margins or a hockey stick... I'm guessing Dell here just thought there was disruption or domination potential that just didn't pan out.

      At a smaller company, things are completely different.

      --
      Make sure everyone's vote counts: Verified Voting
    137. Re:next we'll hear that Dell is in trouble... by Sj0 · · Score: 1

      I'm running an Acer Aspire with an AMD C50 processor. Full size keyboard, big nice looking screen, and a powerful video card. Battery life is respectable. Probably could be much more with a third party battery. It ran me about as much money as the netbooks I've been buying left and right.

      It's all about what you're using the machine for, but considering what I want this machine for (basically surfing the web during my many hours at airports), it works great, and best of all it doesn't run hot, unlike the V150 powered machine I had last.

      --
      It's been a long time.
    138. Re:next we'll hear that Dell is in trouble... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I just have to say that I found your repeated use of "celery" kind of annoying, and "sempy" not much better (although thankfully only used once).

    139. Re:next we'll hear that Dell is in trouble... by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      If I had to guess you are looking at an AMD GPU with Realtek sound, download the latest drivers straight from Realtek and AMD and you are good to go.

      The sound works fine. AMD does not provide downloads for mobile video chipsets. Comment invalidated. You may try again if you like.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    140. Re:next we'll hear that Dell is in trouble... by Sj0 · · Score: 1

      From where I'm sitting, computing works best with a 3 tiered approach.

      1. Primary computing from a desktop computer for all sorts of base station tasks, such as file archiving and downloading or gaming.
      2. Secondary computing from a netbook for tasks that require the flexibility of windows or linux on x86, but with the portability and safety of a 250 dollar netbook instead.
      3. Tertiary computing from a smart phone for tasks that don't require great flexibility or controls.

      Even though I travel a lot now, I still find this paradigm applies. My base station is still great for having physically secure, reliable, safe storage and high powered processing power; my secondary computing comes from one of the new breed of laptops with netbook level processing power (full size laptop with an AMD c50 apu), but only because I spend so much time away from my base station. Despite having great uses for both of my computers, my mobile phone is perfect for a lot of times I won't have a real computer in front of me.

      Netbooks and tablets both attempt to fill the niche of secondary computing. Most people can't afford a desktop replacement for secondary computing, or they don't want to travel with an expensive desktop replacement, or they can't handle the size or power or heat of a desktop replacement.

      --
      It's been a long time.
    141. Re:next we'll hear that Dell is in trouble... by hairyfeet · · Score: 1

      Uhhh...that is where i got mine for my E-350 as well as the legacy Radeon (damn I can't think of the number, X200 maybe?) which was in the legacy section. And it also says right here on the AMD page graphics-notebook. But if you are truly having a hard time finding a driver feel free to list the make and model and i'll be happy to find them for you, or you can just go to Driverpacks and download the one that says "mobile' which has AMD, Intel, and Nvidia. i think it may have SiS as well, not sure.

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    142. Re:next we'll hear that Dell is in trouble... by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      There is an old driver for the old-ass AMD chipset in my machine for Windows 7, but it breaks suspend/resume.

      What I really wanted was to run Linux but I get graphics corruption even with RenderAccel disabled.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    143. Re:next we'll hear that Dell is in trouble... by dave87656 · · Score: 1

      Given that there's 15 inches laptops with higher specifications available for almost the same price, it's no wonder people aren't buying netbooks anymore.

      I have a netbook which I throw into my back pack or in the car which I wouldn't always do with a laptop. It's a very convenient size. I could do the same with a tablet, but I like the tactile keyboard of the netbook. I agree though, that the market for netbooks is a lot smaller than for tablets.

    144. Re:next we'll hear that Dell is in trouble... by dave87656 · · Score: 1

      "Sorry, the page you requested was not found."

    145. Re:next we'll hear that Dell is in trouble... by bubblejet · · Score: 1
      No, this is the market behaving rationally to the fact that it's no longer worth it to be the "low cost" provider. At least in the USA, the percent of total consumer spending by the richest households has risen ([link] [link]), because the "low cost" consumers just don't have the money to spend. So the "low cost" provider has to raise their prices in order to compete for a smaller number of consumers.

      I don't personally know anyone who has an iPad, but I know plenty of people who bought netbooks in 2008 and wouldn't be able to afford one now. And while I'm not saying at all that having an iPad or even a netbook should be a human right, I think it's misleading to say "consumers want tablets instead of netbooks" when the number of tablets sold are only 50-60% of what netbook sales were and still are (note the headline: "Sales of Tablet computers such as iPad outshine netbooks").

    146. Re:next we'll hear that Dell is in trouble... by neurocutie · · Score: 1

      Sorry I still believe there is a strong market for sub $300 laptops.

      Then start a business and see if you're right. I suspect Dell knows a bit more about this than you're guessing they do.

      -jcr

      just because at this moment I'm unwilling to "start a business" doesn't mean that I'm not right...

      And as far as Dell "knowing more", you'd think so, but then look at the boneheaded moves of HP in recent months, or see how well companies like Gateway, once high flyers in the PC business, are doing. Just because they are in the business doesn't mean that they know what they are doing or aren't prone to making huge, huge mistakes.

      I just ordered another ASUS EEE... they were HARD to find... all sold out everywhere. Not going to convince me there is no market for sub $300 laptops or netbooks. This is Dell's failing, not the lack of a market...

    147. Re:next we'll hear that Dell is in trouble... by Phoghat · · Score: 1

      3 seconds of clicking gives:

      http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Toshiba+-+Satellite+Laptop+/+Intel%26%23174%3B+Celeron%26%23174%3B+Processor+/+15.6%22+Display+/+2GB+Memory+/+250GB+Hard+Drive+-+Black/9988402.p?id=1218205766215

      for $240. There are dozens of others of course.

      1 second of clicking gives:

      ERROR 404 Page Not Found

      --
      Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
    148. Re:next we'll hear that Dell is in trouble... by Attila+Dimedici · · Score: 1

      That would explain why Walmart and Target are doing so poorly, there is no longer any money to be made as the low cost provider.

      --
      The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
    149. Re:next we'll hear that Dell is in trouble... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      http://img850.imageshack.us/img850/5396/bestbuypic01.png

    150. Re:next we'll hear that Dell is in trouble... by hairyfeet · · Score: 1

      But doesn't the Linux community always say you should buy a machine based around Linux? That is why I always say Linux is more like Mac than Windows, as Windows will run on anything and Linux like Mac is picky as hell about hardware. Pretty much the only thing I've had luck with linux on has been older Intel chipsets so maybe one of the first gen Atom netbooks would be more your style, for example the EEE 701 actually came with Linux so therefor have drivers.

      As for suspend/resume, you talking hybrid sleep? probably be better off using plain old hibernate. That's what i use with my win 7 netbook and with 8Gb of RAM shutdown takes a minute but startup is pretty fast and most importantly doesn't use the hard drive nearly as much as a cold boot so I get more battery life. But if the Vista driver exists it'll work in 7 as well as long as it matches the bit, I myself am using the Vista drivers for my cap card simply because they support hybrid sleep better than the Win 7 driver does.

      But if it is more than a couple of years old I don't recommend Win 7 anyway, its more for new units than older hardware. If you do want Win 7 you didn't get this idea from me but I'd suggest "Win 7 Tiny Edition" as frankly that guy puts out versions of Windows that put Windows Embedded to shame. His version of Win 7 is snappy as hell on a 1Ghz with less than 512Mb of RAM and on 1Gb or better it flies even faster than XP thanks to the better memory management. You lose WMC and some of the more useless crap like language packs but the tradeoff is you get a version of Windows that runs like a scalded dog. Hell his version of XP and 2K3 frankly flies on a 500Mhz with 256Mb of RAM and on anything more its a speed demon.

      Maybe you ought to look up "Windows Ultimate DVD" off of TPB which gives you 4 versions of 2K/XP/2K3 all on a single DVD with driverpacks. Just pick the version you want, launch the .bat and tada! Instant ISO with the features you chose, really neat. With that and Tiny 7 you can run Windows on pretty much any machine still able to boot and run it quite well. I've used the license swap trick to load tiny XP on several laptops and even on 5 year old single cores it is beyond snappy and frankly great for battery life. Kinda sad when the hacked version is better than the legit, but MSFT has never been known for making light anything.

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    151. Re:next we'll hear that Dell is in trouble... by DaVince21 · · Score: 1

      It has its place, but Dell doesn't think that place is big enough. That's just how it is.

      --
      I am not devoid of humor.
    152. Re:next we'll hear that Dell is in trouble... by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      But doesn't the Linux community always say you should buy a machine based around Linux?

      Yep. But see, I bought this machine making a bunch of invalid assumptions, which is my own damned fault, but a bunch of them are standard assumptions. For example, AMD stuff will be supported under Linux, especially if it is old. But the power saving doesn't work right on Athlon 64 L110 and the graphics don't work on X1250 in the R690M, so that assumption is proven false by this system. Another is that if Vista works, Windows 7 will work, but that is also proven false; AMD simply never added support for this graphics chipset (which has since been abandoned) to any recent version of the graphics driver. One Vista driver does install but on the second resume from suspend you get lockup, or if you are lucky, a free reboot.

      That is why I always say Linux is more like Mac than Windows, as Windows will run on anything

      Which Windows? Windows Vista will run on this hardware, yes. But there are not complete drivers for XP or for Windows 7. Only being able to run Vista doesn't count as "running Windows" in my book.

      Pretty much the only thing I've had luck with linux on has been older Intel chipsets so maybe one of the first gen Atom netbooks would be more your style, for example the EEE 701 actually came with Linux so therefor have drivers.

      You just keep proving you have no fucking idea what you are talking about. First gen Atom netbooks, for example the EEE 701? I happen to own an EEE 701, and it has a Celeron at 600 MHz, which in some models was OC'd to 900MHz, and which can be OC'd by the user on the 600 MHz models. It is utterly pathetic hardware-wise compared to the system I'm complaining about, which has a 1.2 GHz Athlon 64 (overclocks to 1.4) and a GPU in the chipset far better than the primitive stuff in the 701. So in short, no I don't want a vastly slower netbook, and it's not an Atom anyway. I also have an Aspire One (my lady has taken it over, though) and it has a 1.6 Atom, shitty intel graphics, and is dog slow. My Vista-running system beats it like a pinata even though the Aspire is running XP. If the Atom is the answer, the question must have been stupid.

      As for suspend/resume, you talking hybrid sleep? probably be better off using plain old hibernate.

      I'm talking about S3 suspend, why are you attempting to complicate the situation?

      That's what i use with my win 7 netbook and with 8Gb of RAM shutdown takes a minute but startup is pretty fast and most importantly doesn't use the hard drive nearly as much as a cold boot so I get more battery life.

      On Vista you have to wait for the entire contents of memory to be restored, and further, the machine in question has a 5400 rpm hard disk and waiting for it to wake up is arduous at best, especially since it seems to choke after resume if I have any applications running, as they get swapped back in after the resume. High-tech shit!

      But if it is more than a couple of years old I don't recommend Win 7 anyway, its more for new units than older hardware.

      The system came with Vista, Windows 7 is easier on your system than Vista, even having a smaller memory footprint. Any time you want to know what you're talking about it would be appreciated.

      Maybe you ought to look up "Windows Ultimate DVD" off of TPB

      So in the end, the solution you promote is illegal. That's really a ringing endorsement for Windows.

      The simple truth is that you have proven in the course of this comment that you aren't any smarter than I am, and I tried to get the system working for some time before I gave up. The more complex truth is that AMD fucked everyone who bought a system based on the R690M chipset by abandoning it when the market failed to take it up with the same enthusiasm as Atom, so they could con

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    153. Re:next we'll hear that Dell is in trouble... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Check out System76. They've got a neat netbook and it comes loaded with Ubuntu.

    154. Re:next we'll hear that Dell is in trouble... by hairyfeet · · Score: 1

      First of all don't be pissy when someone is trying to help, I haven't messed with a 701 series in something like 3 years, so sue me if I forgot that was a last gen Celeron instead of a first gen Atom. Either way the chipset is still the same older Intel set which should work just fine under Linux.

      As for Windows? Here's your XP drivers, you're welcome. the key to getting around the BS is simply find another unit with the same chipset that DOES have XP drivers and use those. you can also get one of the older versions of Driverpacks or simply go to TPB and download "Windows XP ultimate Driver DVD" which has ALL the major chipsets from EVERY OEM, which means they'll have either the Gateway or Compaq driver and frankly XP don't give a shit, finally another link here that gives a link and description for getting that chip going under XP. Merry Xmas.

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    155. Re:next we'll hear that Dell is in trouble... by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      All those drivers shit themselves most viciously. Too bad you assume I didn't try them. Fuck your holyday, too.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    156. Re:next we'll hear that Dell is in trouble... by hairyfeet · · Score: 1

      Wow what a pissy little FOSSie you are! U mad bro? me I'm just having the time of my fucking life! Life is wonderful, got all my Xmas shopping done, all my family is good, all my computers are maxed out, got an assload of games on steam to throw at my new 6 core, and as soon as she is done with her family shindig my GF is gonna come and rock my world so hard i'll be lucky if i can walk straight and there will be a shit eating grin stuck on my face for a month!

      So let me leave you with my new happy song! We Wish You A Merry Thuban, We Wish You A Merry Thuban, We Wish You A Merry Thuban, and a happy six coooorrrres! Merry Xmas FOSSie!

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    157. Re:next we'll hear that Dell is in trouble... by jcr · · Score: 1

      And as far as Dell "knowing more", you'd think so, but then look at the boneheaded moves of HP in recent months

      Last I checked, HP and Dell were two different companies.

      -jcr

      --
      The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
  2. Phase 2 by markdavis · · Score: 1

    First they admit that they don't know how to make a compelling Android device (yet want to blame it on Android).

    Now they are dropping netbooks.

    Makes you wonder what they will give up on next!

    1. Re:Phase 2 by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      Reminds me of their "Dell DJ" attempt at competing with the iPod.

    2. Re:Phase 2 by houstonbofh · · Score: 1

      What they will NOT give up is the Microsoft subsidy... I mean cross marketing. They make a lot of money on preloaded crapware.

    3. Re:Phase 2 by reub2000 · · Score: 1

      Try using one with the mouse buttons in the trackpad area. Dell was a minor player in the netbook market, so this isn't such a big deal.

    4. Re:Phase 2 by hughk · · Score: 1

      Funnily enough, they gave options to load their business versions (Lattitudes and I believe, XPS)with clean builds.

      --
      See my journal, I write things there
  3. iPad by BasilBrush · · Score: 4, Interesting

    iPad killed the netbook market.

    1. Re:iPad by IANAAC · · Score: 2

      iPad killed the netbook market.

      I doubt it.

      Otherwise we wouldn't be seeing Acer continue with their Aspire One line either. They'd be just focusing on their Iconia tablet line.

    2. Re:iPad by artor3 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Nah, netbooks are still great for portable work. If you travel a lot, and need a computer primarily for office apps and web browsing, then nothing beats a netbook. Tablets are more oriented towards media consumption -- games, video, that sort of thing.

    3. Re:iPad by nightfell · · Score: 4, Insightful

      iPad killed the netbook market.

      I doubt it.

      Otherwise we wouldn't be seeing Acer continue with their Aspire One line either. They'd be just focusing on their Iconia tablet line.

      The iPad completely killed the mass netbook market. Now it's little more than a niche. Acer is a discount computer maker, so they'll continue to make discount computers, but people won't be buying netbooks anywhere near the level they once were. And this is all thanks to the iPad.

      As for the Iconia, you're missing a key point. The *iPad* killed the netbook, not the tablet. Nobody wants Iconia tablets, they want iPads, and maybe Fires (it'll be very interesting to see how the Fire plays out over the next year).

    4. Re:iPad by BasilBrush · · Score: 0

      If you travel a lot, and need a computer primarily for office apps and web browsing, then nothing beats a netbook.

      A Macbook Air does.

    5. Re:iPad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I make games on my iPad using Codea. Pretty good for experimenting with game ideas, faster than using Xcode.

    6. Re:iPad by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      Otherwise we wouldn't be seeing Acer continue with their Aspire One line either.

      One domino always has to be the first to fall.

    7. Re:iPad by jellomizer · · Score: 1

      In it when we say a technology is dead, it doesn't mean there isn't anyone selling new products. But more to the fact that public interest is rapidly declining.

      The mainframe is dead but IBM is still making them and selling them too

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    8. Re:iPad by VJmes · · Score: 1

      While true, this only tells part of the story.

      The iPad cannibalized the technologically-naive market that had begun to gravitate towards netbooks as a cheap, portable web-surfing laptop by providing a much simpler web-surfing product that was more portable and (arguably) easier to use. Though the recent advent of ultrabooks will be the killing blow for netbooks as they cannibalisde the ultra-portable computing market that netbooks were also marketed towards.

    9. Re:iPad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'd expect a Macbook Air to beat a netbook. It's bigger and weighs more.

    10. Re:iPad by IANAAC · · Score: 1

      Acer is a discount computer maker, so they'll continue to make discount computers, but people won't be buying netbooks anywhere near the level they once were. And this is all thanks to the iPad.

      What do you think Dell was, high end? Equating a high-priced tablet to a low-priced netbook by inferring that it killed the low-priced market makes no sense.

    11. Re:iPad by artor3 · · Score: 2

      Sure, if you don't mind paying five times as much.

    12. Re:iPad by mjwx · · Score: 4, Informative

      The iPad completely killed the mass netbook market. Now it's little more than a niche.

      LOL.

      Keep telling yourself that.

      Whatever you do, dont visit the local electronics retailer, you may see something that would prove your delusion very wrong, like a lot of netbooks.

      The thing is, a lot of people still buy netbooks, they are for people who dont want nor need a full sized laptop. People who travel and want to run windows programs. Ipads on the other hand require computers to do nearly anything, most people I've seen travailing with an Ipad also have a laptop or netbook to run the Ipad.

      Why is Dell giving up Netbooks, simple, netbooks dont fit into the Dell business model. Dell makes most of its sales online, so they have to pay for individual shipping making them uncompetitive in this market. They sell very little through retail channels, When I head to the local electronics retailer (Dick Smith, Havey Norman, Bing Lee) I see a lot of Asus, Toshiba, Emachines (Acer) and HP netbooks at half the price of an Ipad. Combine this with the falling price of full sized laptops and the fact that the business market is their core market and businesses dont buy netbooks (or tablets).

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    13. Re:iPad by VJmes · · Score: 2

      Dick Smith, Harvey Norman & Bing Lee all sell last-generation electronics including laptops. It's how Harvey Norman are able to offer two-for-one deals on their netbook/notebook range.

      I can also attest to the fact that while stocks of netbooks are high, they certainly aren't moving off the shelves. As I said before laptops are far lighter and smaller than they've traditionally been and more recently this new lighter form-factor has not cost the system performance, between those laptops and tablet computers (Not just the iPad) sales have all but ground to a halt with netbooks. To the point where those retailers you mentioned are discounting them to below cost just to move their stock.

    14. Re:iPad by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 1

      Nah, netbooks are still great for portable work. If you travel a lot, and need a computer primarily for office apps and web browsing, then nothing beats a netbook.

      I switched from a netbook to a E350-based 13" MSI 'laptop', and I couldn't be happier. Still have the battery life I loved, but the CPU is pretty fast. It's halfway between the weight of the 10" netbook I had 3 years ago and the one I bought two years ago.

      It's still light enough and small enough that I never regret putting it in my bag. It's not eeePC 701 small, but I have enough screen space to be generally useful too.

      Linux hardware support is almost there (still need open-source ati driver to support audio over HDMI on R6xx).

      --
      My God, it's Full of Source!
      OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
    15. Re:iPad by SolemnLord · · Score: 2

      I travel a lot. I happen to have a netbook (HP Mini), and an iPad. The netbook has a third of the battery life, is heavier and bulkier, has worse controls, and because the screen is held further away than the iPad it's also harder on the eyes. The keyboards are miserable on both, but the thing is that I can (and do) hook up a bluetooth keyboard for my iPad. I can't get rid of the netbook's keyboard. I have the iWork set for my iPad, and I'm productive enough with them. Browsing is completely superior on the iPad.

      The netbook was bought because it was an experiment, and now it's collecting dust. I'm using the iPad all the time, even when I'm working on my regular computers. Between high-quality tablets and dirt-cheap, full-sized laptops, netbooks don't stand a chance.

    16. Re:iPad by BasilBrush · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Definition of an ultrabook: A MacBook Air copy.

    17. Re:iPad by JoeMerchant · · Score: 1

      iPad killed the netbook market.

      Perhaps - although, after everybody gets a $500-600 tablet, I think the small sub $400 notebook market will revive. Tablets are the cool thing for people that don't have them. Somebody gave me an iPad, it's great for the kids to surf YouTube on, but absolutely sucks for typing - and, thanks to iOS - is not a replacement for a PC that can do things like Flash based websites. (Who needs that? Start with: Ticket to Read, SpellingCity.com, etc.)

    18. Re:iPad by Gadget_Guy · · Score: 5, Interesting

      The iPad completely killed the mass netbook market. Now it's little more than a niche.

      I recently attended a large medical conference, and it was quite interesting to watch the people when they were between sessions. There were hundreds of people sitting around with their computers out, and it amazed me that the majority of them used netbooks. The Ultrabook/Macbook Air made up a close second place, while there were only a handful of the 15" luggables. The really surprising thing was how few people had iPads. I guess you can't beat a keyboard for writing notes.

      You may consider this to be a niche market, but anyone who has to travel and walk around a lot while carrying their computer will appreciate the netbooks for their weight. The fact that they are inexpensive means that you don't have to worry about the netbooks getting broken while you are travelling.

    19. Re:iPad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A lot of students like netbooks. The keyboard is better for taking notes than an ipad (as is the price when you're a starving student) and the battery life is better than a laptop (as is the price when you're a starving student). I see them in classes all the time.

    20. Re:iPad by stewbacca · · Score: 1

      I guess you can't beat a keyboard for writing notes.

      Yes, yes you can. Taking handwritten notes using software optimized for note taking is far superior to any notes I've ever tried to take on my MacBook...and I type 95 words per minute.

    21. Re:iPad by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      Somebody gave me an iPad, it's great for the kids to surf YouTube on, but absolutely sucks for typing

      Tablet only when you want to surf. Keyboard case when you want to do more typing.

      iPad killed Flash too. It's in it's dead throes.

      (Who needs that? Start with: Ticket to Read, SpellingCity.com, etc.)

      Teaching kids to read and write? There's an app for that. Actually there's a lot of apps for that. And they are all the better for a touch screen allowing direct manipulation.

    22. Re:iPad by symbolset · · Score: 1

      I love this "cannibalized" term being abused in this way. It expresses why PC vendors didn't give us the iPad - it would cannibalize their PC sales. The iPad isn't the same species as netbooks and cannot cannibalize them. Mac sales are up too, so it didn't eat into Apple's sales. What it did do is eat everybody else's netbook lunch.

      --
      Help stamp out iliturcy.
    23. Re:iPad by nine-times · · Score: 1

      I don't think that's why. I support a bunch of people, and have dealt with a bunch of people who bought netbooks. In my experience, most often, people who buy netbooks are not happy with them, and this has been a problem since netbooks were introduced, before the iPad was announced.

      The problem is that, to some extent, you get what you pay for. Most of the people who buy netbooks are hoping to get around the whole "you get what you pay for" thing by buying a $300 laptop, expecting that it will have the performance and feature-set of a $1000 laptop. They bring the netbook home and try to work on it for a little while, and then they find that they haven't successfully cheated the system. The $300 laptop they bought is a $300 laptop, and there is not a secret magical way to get a $1000 laptop at a fraction of the price. So of course, they're dissatisfied.

      It's really not that complicated. Most people don't actually want a $300 cheap/slow laptop.

    24. Re:iPad by bipbop · · Score: 1

      I don't type that slowly, but I do find handwritten notes on paper to work well for me. I retain the information better, I can use symbols and drawings to express concepts much more easily, and I'm convinced my brain works differently while writing than typing.

      Unfortunately, no one else can read my notes. On the bright side, no one else can read my notes.

    25. Re:iPad by jbolden · · Score: 2

      Dell has gone back and forth. When Dell started in Texas it was an grey market IBM dealer. Later it became the high end of the grey box manufacturers. Dell's server stuff was always pretty good but it allowed the consumer line to be driven down to margins where service was frankly terrible.

      It is hard to know what Dell is anymore. I'm not sure Dell even knows.

    26. Re:iPad by Jimbookis · · Score: 2

      Maybe. I bought a eeePC with the Atom570 and Intel GPU recently from HN for the bargain price of $280. I have put 64 bit Kubuntu on it and it's a ripper. I am dead impressed with how well the whole thing runs and how long the battery lasts for. The Kubuntu eye candy is dead smooth too. I think it's a perfect size for my daughter and I use it too for streaming MythTV recordings over wireless and doing general web stuff. It hasn't choked on any videos I have thrown at it and it copes with Youtube and a lot of Flash stuff just fine. We'll get an iPad3 when they come out but I reckon the netbook at less than 1/2 the price will give it a run for its money.

    27. Re:iPad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or you could take handwritten notes using paper optimised for note-taking. I'd take a lecturePad over an iPad for note-taking any day.

    28. Re:iPad by Troed · · Score: 1

      No one who's ever held and used an 11" Macbook Air would claim it's "bigger" and "weighs more" than, uh, just about anything. Heck, you can keep it in an iPad cover.

      To be blunt, the 11" MBA is the perfect netbook. Pricey, sure, but it's a full blown (fast!!) computer in an iPad-sized casing.

    29. Re:iPad by Troed · · Score: 2

      I'm typing on one. I'm quite sure you're not. Don't let fanboyism stand in between you and what's an amazing piece of hardware.

      (Its SSD made me go and switch out the hard drives in all my other computers to SSDs as well since they were suddenly slower than the "low spec" MBA - last years model)

    30. Re:iPad by Dzimas · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Here's the absolutely honest reason I don't own a Macbook Air: My son is 9 and I want to take him to Disneyland when I attend a conference in a few weeks. So, instead of forking over $1300 for a sleek little Mac that I love, I spent $180 on a dual core netbook and another $20 on 2GB of RAM. Surprisingly, it's an OK machine. The netbook will travel with me to Anaheim in a few weeks -- and it'll do a reasonable job -- and the rest of my Macbook Air fund will be spent enjoying life with my kid while he's still young enough to want me around. Win.

    31. Re:iPad by Belial6 · · Score: 1

      Give it a few years, and the tablets will be attached to a keyboard. Thus it will be a laptop/netbook that can be turned sideways and used for taking notes like a tablet. Then it can be set on keyboad side and used as a notebook.

    32. Re:iPad by Belial6 · · Score: 1

      The "you get what you pay for" meme is simply wrong. I am regularly amazed at how things that are far simpler, cheaper in quality and material cost can have a purchase price that are so much higher than things that are far more complex, better quality and have more expensive material costs.

      The problem with netbooks is not that you get what you pay for. The problem is that you are getting a $150 computer at a $300 price. You are NOT getting what you pay for. I don't think that most people are expecting the quality of a $1000 laptop. They just have a tendency to be disappointed when their $350 10" screen/1gb RAM/120gb HDD laptop (a netbook is a laptop) doesn't perform as well as their $350 17" screen/4gb RAM/500gb HDD laptop.

    33. Re:iPad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The iPad completely killed the mass netbook market.

      Please don't allow reality or actual sales numbers to get in the way of your argument.

    34. Re:iPad by nightfell · · Score: 1

      Your post would be interesting if someone had claimed that stores don't carry netbooks, or some such nonsense. But no one did. Stores also carry lots of shit no one buys. Just look at the various Android tablets at your local Best Buy.

      The inescapable fact is that the netbook, which was the nerd darling of 2009 and 2010, was eclipsed by the iPad. There are still people who will buy netbooks, but the role all the nerds thought it was going to fill is far better filled by the iPad.

      Given that you can't even spell iPad, I think your irrational bias speaks for itself.

    35. Re:iPad by nightfell · · Score: 1

      You may consider this to be a niche market, but anyone who has to travel and walk around a lot while carrying their computer will appreciate the netbooks for their weight.

      Yes, that's a niche market, and one that the big PC makers are running away from in droves. They are now trying to court it with the "ultrabook", which demonstrates that people don't want a shit notebook. They'll put up with it if they have to, which is why they were so popular two years ago.

    36. Re:iPad by Xest · · Score: 2

      I'm not sure why people pursue this myth that the netbook market is even dead.

      It's a market that grew rapidly, to far higher numbers than tablets have even with the iPads success.

      Whilst there's no doubt sales growth has slowed, possibly declined this doesn't change the amount of netbooks out there, but fundamentally the slowing of netbook sales is explainable because:

      1) Most people have no reason to replace their existing netbooks. Many bought in the last 3 years are still good enough today, why replace it? You don't need the latest and greatest in computing power to browse the web and send e-mails.

      2) We're still in global financial turmoil, so even those inclined to have the latest and greatest have been drastically cutting back.

      Apple failed to hit it's iPad 2 sales target last quarter shifting only 4.19 million units instead of it's predicted 5 million, and Dell has also stopped selling tablets. Applying the same logic being applied to netbooks you can thus equally say that the tablet market is dead, so if tablets killed the netbook market what's killed the tablet market?

      Alternatively, you could simply recognise that the more logical explanation is simply that Dell is still pursuing the same failing business model that's been causing it to decline for the best part of a decade now taking it from computing behemoth, to also ran.

      No one cares what Dell is doing nowadays, because you can guarantee that whatever Dell is doing is almost certainly going to fail.

    37. Re:iPad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      MICROSOFT was killing the netbook market long before the iPad. OEM licensing of XP and the restrictions placed on the hardware killed it.

      XP was a decent overall percentage of cost for compact laptops. To get them even cheaper, Linux stated being used by the manufacturers. The netbook was born, a different class of computer. Same as a laptop but with less "power" and it was not running run of the mill Windows XP. With Linux making some progress in the netbooks, MS gets scared. Not that they were losing some sales to netbooks but that people might actually get used to an alternate OS. Out comes licensing deals for XP on notebooks. MS can sell a crippled stripped down OS cheaply to compete with the Linux variants. To keep the OS out of the hands of regular laptop users, hardware restrictions are placed in licensing and software. The future of netbook hardware is now controlled by Microsoft and incentives for companies to invest in further refining Linux "netbook distributions" dies. Nothing new has come around in the netbook market for years, Microsoft has not done much for porting of Windows 7, Android and iPad tablets start showing up, The netbook is basically dead and was killed by MS.

    38. Re:iPad by Attila+Dimedici · · Score: 1

      Ipad did not kill the mass netbook market. Netbook manufacturers killed the mass netbook market. The mass netbook market was for cheap (less than $250, and ideally less than $200), small (less than 10") computing devices. The netbook manufacturers wanted the buzz that was associated with netbooks, but they wanted to sell at the $350+ price point. There is no market there. In order to sell at that price point, they needed bigger screens, so they went with 10"-12" screens. At that point ($350+, 10"+ screen) they are just a small laptop and the buzz is gone.

      --
      The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
    39. Re:iPad by AthanasiusKircher · · Score: 1

      The iPad completely killed the mass netbook market. Now it's little more than a niche.

      Have any facts to support this?

      Tablet sales only overtook netbook sales in the SECOND QUARTER OF THIS YEAR (2011). Netbook sales continued at roughly 2010 levels until recent months, when they have started to drop (along with PC sales in general).

      In the long run, you may be right. But millions of netbooks have been sold this year. Their sales are currently trending down a bit, while tablet sales have really taken off. But it's weird to say that a product that sold many millions of units this year is now a "niche market."

    40. Re:iPad by AthanasiusKircher · · Score: 1

      Give it a few years, and the tablets will be attached to a keyboard. Thus it will be a laptop/netbook that can be turned sideways and used for taking notes like a tablet. Then it can be set on keyboad side and used as a notebook.

      Umm, these things have been around for many years. They're called "convertibles." Generally, the screen rotates and then folds in flat on top of the keyboard to use the "tablet" features with a touch screen.

      I bought one over five years ago. Lots of doctors and other people who needed a small light computer with a proper keyboard as well as a tablet to take handwritten notes had them... but they were generally a bit pricey. The cheaper ones today still tend to cost about twice as much as an iPad.

    41. Re:iPad by Belial6 · · Score: 1

      Sure. Tablets predated the current boom too. One of the big problems with the old 'convertibles' was the same problem with the old tablets. They were generally laptops with a touch screen bolted on. This meant they were running OSes that didn't really work great for a tablet. And, as you said, they were expensive.

      Turning a Laptop into a convertible was not common, and did not impact the netbook market. Turning a tablet into a convertible will be common and will be the future of the netbook market.

      For what it's worth, I do recognize that a convertible is a PC (generic use of PC), as is a netbook, laptop, and yes even a tablet. It is just a question of what peripherals get included.

    42. Re:iPad by Forbman · · Score: 1

      and the rest of my Macbook Air fund...or buying your tickets to Disneyland.

    43. Re:iPad by dzfoo · · Score: 1

      Apparently, many people do not mind so. More to the point, apparently Intel, HP, and now Dell have realized this too.

                -dZ.

      --
      Carol vs. Ghost
      ...Can you save Christmas?
    44. Re:iPad by Gadget_Guy · · Score: 1

      Yes, that's a niche market, and one that the big PC makers are running away from in droves. They are now trying to court it with the "ultrabook", which demonstrates that people don't want a shit notebook.

      Or it demonstrates that there is a greater profit margin in selling more expensive computers. My anecdote suggests that a lot of people were happy with netbooks despite being able to buy the faster and equally light Toshiba Portété line for over decade.

    45. Re:iPad by rsborg · · Score: 1

      iPad killed the netbook market.

      The iPad was the final nail in the coffin. The netbook (inspired by the original OLPC), of which the original EEE PC was an exemplar, ran Linux, cost $300, had a small cheap (but fast enough) SSD and made a great email, web and IM terminal... this scared the shit out of both Intel and Microsoft... who consequently conspired to kill or cripple it [1] [2]. So Intel flooded the low-end market with the gfx-gimped Atom and Microsoft twisted the arms of companies like Asus, Acer and the like to drop Linux. Then they pushed 160GB HDs (sounds a lot better value than a 16GB SSD, right?), and saddled it down with Vista/Win7 Starter.

      This was around 2008/2009, long before the iPad arrived. When iPad did hit the market, it fully capitalized on this strategy of "lets keep netbooks crappy" by offering their take: lighter, app-store, and dead sexy.

      [1] http://gizmodo.com/5270094/the-netbook-conspiracy-intel-and-microsoft-collude-to-keep-netbooks-crappy
      [2] http://samj.net/2009/02/conspiracy-theories-about-intels-role.html

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    46. Re:iPad by petermgreen · · Score: 1

      Despite the larger screen it seems that an 11.6 inch macbook air is about the same size and lighter in weight than an EEEPC 1000 and it has a screen with 768 pixels of vertical resoloution a dual core 1.6 GHz (1.8 if you choose the right BTO option) sandy bridge processor (still fairly weak compared to regular laptop processor but far more powefull than an atom).

      --
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    47. Re:iPad by nightfell · · Score: 1

      Yes, that's a niche market, and one that the big PC makers are running away from in droves. They are now trying to court it with the "ultrabook", which demonstrates that people don't want a shit notebook.

      Or it demonstrates that there is a greater profit margin in selling more expensive computers. My anecdote suggests that a lot of people were happy with netbooks despite being able to buy the faster and equally light Toshiba Portété line for over decade.

      I'm waiting for the part where people who need to travel with their computer for work isn't a niche market. I'm also waiting for the part where people wouldn't prefer an "ultrabook" (read: MacBook Air) over a netbook for that role.

      I never said there aren't a lot of people who are happy with netbooks. In fact, I'm quite certain there are a lot of people happy with netbooks. That doesn't change their niche status, niche appeal, and inherent inferiority to proper computers better suited for use on the road.

  4. price... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Most people stopped buying them because the manufactures forgot why people were getting them in the first place. They were cheap 'semi capable' computers. Some people bought them because they were small. But many bought them because they were 200-250 each. Then the price went up to 300-400 each. Basically borderline get a cheapo laptop... That has a better screen and better processor...

    1. Re:price... by houstonbofh · · Score: 1

      Several are more that a cheap laptop, and with lower specs as well. Yep, I really want that.

    2. Re:price... by couchslug · · Score: 4, Interesting

      "Most people stopped buying them because the manufactures forgot why people were getting them in the first place."

      Or because the manufacturers KNEW why people were buying them in the first place and preferred to guide them elsewhere.

      --
      "This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
    3. Re:price... by amiga3D · · Score: 3, Interesting

      That's exactly why. I bought a used acer aspire one ZG5 model, one of the first netbooks recently for $100. I wiped XP off the little 8gb Solid State Drive and installed Peppermint2 OS on it and I friggin' love it. It weighs nothing, it's fast, it has a bright screen and even though its old now the battery lasts over 3 hours of web surfing. I've been hanging out in hospital waiting rooms a lot lately and it makes sitting there waiting all day a lot easier. I've got heavier machines for productivity, I just needed a netbook. Nobody really sells one anymore but there are lots of used ones around for cheap. Many people bought netbooks with the wrong expectations and they're in mostly good shape since they haven't been used much. The one I bought looks brand new.

  5. I have an idea by Yvan256 · · Score: 5, Funny

    Close Dell and return the money to the shareholders.

    1. Re:I have an idea by Haven · · Score: 4, Funny

      But Dell has given us so many memorable market defining products!

    2. Re:I have an idea by formfeed · · Score: 5, Funny

      But Dell has given us so many memorable market defining products!

      No kidding. Dell was the company that made black cases popular.
      Only mistake they made: new products should have been introduced by Michael Dell wearing a white turtleneck.

  6. A depressing trend. by pro151 · · Score: 0

    So many companies today with little or no foresight on what the future will bring them or demand of them. This is not isolated to Computer companies like Dell and HP, it is a virus eating at the very core of American industry.

    1. Re:A depressing trend. by PCM2 · · Score: 2

      So many companies today with little or no foresight on what the future will bring them or demand of them.

      So let's hear it, Kreskin! What will the future bring a consumer electronics company whose business strategy is based around a race to the bottom, perpetually paring away the margins on an underperforming product that is completely undifferentiated from its competitors' products in every way except price?

      This summer I needed a portable computer, so I walked into a Best Buy and walked out with a 14" laptop with the latest generation of Intel processor and graphics, 4GB of RAM, a 640GB hard drive, a full-sized keyboard, and the usual bells and whistles, for about $550. I guess I could have saved myself a couple hundred bucks and got a netbook with specs that barely meet the minimum requirements for Windows 7, but honestly, why would I? Battery life? If I turn the screen brightness down a little bit, my laptop's battery will run for almost eight hours. Size might be the only valid reason, but the laptop I ended up with is still small enough to fit into my little canvas shoulder bag, and it weighs just over 4 lbs, so even that is a poor argument.

      Simply put, as the cost of traditional laptop form factors has fallen, netbooks seem more and more like a category whose time is past. For consumers, netbooks seem mainly like "disposable" cheap computers with specs so low that they're probably a waste of money, even at $300. For manufacturers, maintaining a netbook product line is just as costly and risky as maintaining a line of traditional laptops, except the margins are far lower. It's a lose-lose.

      --
      Breakfast served all day!
    2. Re:A depressing trend. by symbolset · · Score: 1

      Replace the HDD with an SSD. Go into the BIOS and set it to economy mode. Your battery life goes way up. Windows has some settings that help too.

      --
      Help stamp out iliturcy.
    3. Re:A depressing trend. by amiga3D · · Score: 1

      Netbooks need to come in at sub 200 dollar mark. Anything over that and they compare piss poorly with a regular laptop. The screen should be 7-10 inches and it should be light as possible. Instead they're calling something almost the size of my old 12" iBook a netbook and it's not. If it's almost the size of a laptop, nowhere near the performance and it costs almost as much then it's not going to sell. Simple enough really, you'd think even the fools that pass for marketers in these companies would get it.

    4. Re:A depressing trend. by PCM2 · · Score: 1

      I honestly don't see why I'd need more than eight hours. I find I seldom bother to bring my AC adapter with me as it is.

      --
      Breakfast served all day!
    5. Re:A depressing trend. by symbolset · · Score: 1

      OK. If it works for you, go with it. Save the tips for when you might go on a long flight, or have kids in the backseat when you go on a road trip. Personally I'm fine the the Transformer's battery life - I only charge up a couple times a week. But sometimes I'm caught being forgetful, so for me more is always better.

      --
      Help stamp out iliturcy.
    6. Re:A depressing trend. by jbolden · · Score: 1

      Or they could go back to the original purpose. Inexpensive systems designed for portability. Essentially what smart phones are being used today except without the phone part.

    7. Re:A depressing trend. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I picked up a novo 7 inch tablet (android 3.2) for 140 shipped to the door. Got the case with bluetooth keyboard for 20 more. Instant android netbook.

  7. The future belongs to tablets (with optional KB) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Now I believe the mobile computing future really belongs to tablets. The only difference between a netbook and a tablet is a keyboard. So all a mobile user needs, hardware-wise, to bridge that gap is a keyboard. This can be supplied via an optional "dockable" keyboard. On the software side, there needs to be good support for the usual types of productivity software such as word processing and the occasional "presentation".

  8. Dell, by M0j0_j0j0 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Currently Dell is a brand , just that, nothing more , after exporting all the know how to asia Asus took over, and now there is nothing left except the round logo. Close, move along corporation.

    1. Re:Dell, by mjwx · · Score: 0

      Currently Dell is a brand , just that, nothing more , after exporting all the know how to asia Asus took over, and now there is nothing left except the round logo. Close, move along corporation.

      Currently Apple is a brand, just that, nothing more, after exporting all the know how to Asia, Asus then took over, and now there is nothing left except the apple logo. Close, move along corporation.

      First off. Never put a comma in front of and.

      Secondly, there is little difference in this regard between Apple and Dell. They both do a little design work out of the US and export the rest to China. They even use the same Chinese manufacturer.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    2. Re:Dell, by PCM2 · · Score: 2

      First off. Never put a comma in front of and.

      There's no such rule.

      --
      Breakfast served all day!
    3. Re:Dell, by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I suggest that you learn about the Oxford comma. It's useful and certainly can come after the word 'and'.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_comma

      The GP's usage is correct as the comma separates a subordinate clause from the main sentence and would be a natural place to pause during speech.

    4. Re:Dell, by TheEyes · · Score: 1

      Apple is a software and design company. It used to be a hardware company, but earlier this decade Jobs realized that hardware is largely commoditized, and the vast majority of consumers are largely unaware of the parts that aren't commoditized. So, they outsourced their hardware manufacture to China and turned to software (and, arguably, marketing) as their biggest differentiating factor.

      Dell, on the other hand, still thinks it's a hardware company, but it's a hardware company that has outsourced its hardware design and manufacture to China, which at this point means it really is nothing but a sticker being attached to commodity hardware. HP is the same way, although Meg Whitman seems to be trying to turn that around. We'll see if she manages it.

    5. Re:Dell, by mbkennel · · Score: 1

      There's a pretty big difference between Apple and Dell.

      Apple has many employees who design chips and certainly motherboards from scratch. (remember they have CPU designers who used to work on PowerPC chips and probably now do similar for their ARM cpu's)

      They design all cases, often with non-standard materials and innovative manufacturing techniques and do thermal modeling. They design their own mice and keyboards and power adapters unlike Dell who specs out to a generic manufacturer.

    6. Re:Dell, by mbkennel · · Score: 1

      This is false. Apple is a hardware company, because hardware is what they make money from, they put a substantial effort into specialized and unique hardware and software. Revenue comes from hardware, and software is there to make hardware sell, but hardware design is core to Apple and always has been. Even IBM doesn't manufacture all its own chips from bare sand the way it used to.

      Dell is a logistics, sales and and support company.

    7. Re:Dell, by timestride · · Score: 1

      Nothing more than a brand? Perhaps on the consumer side, but they are one of the only soup to nuts technology providers for large enterprises. IBM got out of the PC/laptop business and HP put the future of their PC/laptop unit in question while Dell has shown they are committed to staying in the market. If you want to consolidate your vendors and purchase servers and laptops from the same company, Dell is the only obvious choice currently. A few years back they miss stepped by offshoring their tech support, but they have since brought it back to the states and quality has improved. With their purchases of EqualLogic and Compellent, Dell is also becoming a force in the SAN market. Other strategic purchases such as SecureWorks, Force 10, and Kace shows that Dell is willing to diversify to continue to stay relevant while continuing to server their core x86 market.

    8. Re:Dell, by erroneus · · Score: 1

      That's not entirely true. I work on laptops more often than I would like and I have to say Dells hare ALWAYS easier to work on than any given other laptop... and I especially hate working on HPs. They aren't all the same.

    9. Re:Dell, by stewbacca · · Score: 1

      First off. Never put a comma in front of and.

      First off -comma- never use never when discussing English grammar.

    10. Re:Dell, by msobkow · · Score: 1

      I think we're talking about a philosophical difference of what a "hardware manufacturer" is vs. a "hardware design house." Apple is the latter, and used to be the former. They've farmed out all the production, and are no longer a hardware manufacturing company, but exist only as a hardware design company with a supporting software division.

      And, apparently, a huge legal team of people with nothing better to do than patent things which should have been published as standards for use by anyone, the same as IBM did with the Commun User Access styleguides that drive virtually every computer GUI on the planet to date. It's what allows one fanboy to sit down at another fanboy's machine and still get something done because it all works largely the same.

      And on that note, the KDE, Gnome, and Unity teams would be well advised not to ignore decades of research and practical use by the entire computing industry when designing their GUIs. Start with the CUA and go from there. Any divergence from the CUA defaults should require user configuration at either the desktop or application level.

      --
      I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
    11. Re:Dell, by arkane1234 · · Score: 1

      Apple designed the A4 & A5 processor, and the rest of the iPad. They engineer their stuff, they just outsource the production of it.

      --
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    12. Re:Dell, by BeardedChimp · · Score: 1

      ,And?

    13. Re:Dell, by dzfoo · · Score: 2

      I think you'll find that "hardware company," unqualified as it was, straddles the "hardware manufacturer" and "hardware design house" classes.

      The original poster never suggested that Apple manufactured its own hardware from sand and rare metals, just that they made a profit from selling hardware that they designed themselves.

      He or she was responding to someone claiming that Apple was not even this, but a mere software company. The response was correct. Your attempt at nuance is unwarranted and off-topic.

                -dZ.

      --
      Carol vs. Ghost
      ...Can you save Christmas?
    14. Re:Dell, by jones_supa · · Score: 1

      First off. Never put a comma in front of and.

      How about the word 'but', what are the rules?

    15. Re:Dell, by jones_supa · · Score: 1

      What I don't get is those laptops which don't let you replace RAM / HDD / DVD without opening half of the laptop, instead of simple hatches on the bottom!

  9. Re:The future belongs to tablets (with optional KB by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So all a mobile user needs, hardware-wise, to bridge that gap is a keyboard. This can be supplied via an optional "dockable" keyboard.

    I can't imagine no keyboard... and having a tablet with a keyboard seems like those combination car/truck things they used to make... and it wasn't any good at either... it was a crappy car and a crappy truck.

  10. The iPad Effect by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    It's not just Dell being affected by 'teh iPad!!!' Just look what else Apple's 'magical' device has caused to happen just this week:

    * Ron Paul's surging poll numbers in Iowa
    * The first signs of the Higgs Boson
    * Kobe Bryant's wife filing for divorce
    * The end of the Iraq war

    Just to name a few.

    Ask anyone at your local Starbucks and they will confirm its all true.

  11. Re:The future belongs to tablets (with optional KB by marcosdumay · · Score: 1

    I guess you are right. There are plenty of keyboard cases available for them, you can't search a tablet at Amazon without it recommending you one of those. (Even for the EEE.) Also, it makes the keyboard removable, for whatever you want to do without a keyboard (reading a book probably).

    But that is not the "only" difference between them. Netbooks must run windows, so their battery life is way lower, and I've not seen a netbook that connects to 3G yet.

  12. Netbooks still have their uses... by herrnova · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I'm actually considering buying a netbook before the next semester starts. I've used my 17" and 15.6" laptops to take notes during my lectures, and when I'm in a big lecture hall with large tables, either one works fine, but when I'm usually in a regular classroom with regular desks, they are both too big to be practical. I've also tried using my android tablet with keyboard-case to take notes, and it just ended up being a PITA. While it may work for some people, its not for me. An iPad is not an option for me. So, instead of taking notes by hand, which is a pain in the hand, I'll probably be picking up a decent cheap netbook. Not because I want a full time laptop (which I already have), or want to play games on it (which is what my desktop is for), but because it's the best tool for the job. Pretty much all it will have installed is an office suite, web browser, and any software required for my classes. It doesn't matter that for another $50, I can get a 15.6" dual core laptop with decent ram and storage. I don't need any of that. I am sure there are others that feel the same. The netbook may not be practical for everybody, but it does have its use, especially at the ~$200 price range.

    1. Re:Netbooks still have their uses... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Honestly, get a Macbook Air (13"). From someone who used to say they would never use an Apple product, after being giving one and using it for sometime, I wouldn't go back.

      All other things aside, Apple's laptops are better at portability, weight and battery life. Nowadays, processors are as fast as you need, these three characteristic really do make a laptop more enjoyable.

    2. Re:Netbooks still have their uses... by herrnova · · Score: 1

      I've had a 13" Macbook pro, got it after a friend upgraded, and while it did seem like a decent laptop, I kept running into problems, such as being able to type umlauts and the Eszett, as swiftly as I can using Windows 7 with the International Keyboard turned on. It's the little things, but they added up quick. Yeah, I'm sure there are workarounds, but I'll stick with PC's

    3. Re:Netbooks still have their uses... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Honestly, get a Macbook Air (13"). From someone who used to say they would never use an Apple product, after being giving one and using it for sometime, I wouldn't go back.

      All other things aside, Apple's laptops are better at portability, weight and battery life. Nowadays, processors are as fast as you need, these three characteristic really do make a laptop more enjoyable.

      Are Apples laptops locked down, or can you install any OS you like?

    4. Re:Netbooks still have their uses... by tepples · · Score: 1

      Are Apples laptops locked down, or can you install any OS you like?

      You can install any PC OS you want in Boot Camp or VirtualBox. You just have to somehow convince the one holding your purse strings that a MacBook Air is worth the price tag compared to an ASUS or Acer.

    5. Re:Netbooks still have their uses... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The problem is that the price and availability of the netbooks is going to get worse, because there aren't enough people like you.

    6. Re:Netbooks still have their uses... by RyuuzakiTetsuya · · Score: 1

      Option+s for ÃY and option + u then vowel for umlaut.

      --
      Non impediti ratione cogitationus.
    7. Re:Netbooks still have their uses... by armanox · · Score: 1

      International characters are much faster for me on the Mac (link).

      --
      I'm starting to think GNU is the problem with "GNU/Linux" these days.
    8. Re:Netbooks still have their uses... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You just have to somehow convince the one holding your purse strings that a MacBook Air is worth the price tag compared to an ASUS or Acer.

      Given that the equivalent ASUS, the UX31, is, at best, only about $100 cheaper than the Air, that shouldn't be too difficult.

    9. Re:Netbooks still have their uses... by symbolset · · Score: 1

      People install other OSs all the time. I've seen Macbooks with W7 and an Air with Debian in the normal course.

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      Help stamp out iliturcy.
    10. Re:Netbooks still have their uses... by gnasher719 · · Score: 3, Informative

      I've had a 13" Macbook pro, got it after a friend upgraded, and while it did seem like a decent laptop, I kept running into problems, such as being able to type umlauts and the Eszett, as swiftly as I can using Windows 7 with the International Keyboard turned on. It's the little things, but they added up quick. Yeah, I'm sure there are workarounds, but I'll stick with PC's

      Umlaut = option-u.
      Character with umlaut = option-u followed by character.
      Accent = option-e, caret = option-i, tilde = option-n.
      Eszett = option-s. Who would have thought it. Upside-down question mark = option-question mark. Upside-down exclamation mark = option-exclamation mark. C with cedilla = option-c.

      Conclusion: Yes, you should stick with a PC.

    11. Re:Netbooks still have their uses... by stewbacca · · Score: 1

      Seriously? I create technical documents in German using OS X in English. We use Macs because they are far easier to use for German. Option + U for umlaut then the vowel you want it on. Eszett is option + s. Then there's the nice touch of just switching your Mac to German with a simple System Menu selection...the whole computer, not just a few keystrokes and menus.

      Seriously, unless you buy a German version of Windows, nothing is easier for foreign languages than a Mac. We translate everything at work into French, German, Chinese, Korean, Japanese and Brazilian Portugese...I can only wonder how unproductive I'd be if we used Windows.

    12. Re:Netbooks still have their uses... by TangoMargarine · · Score: 1

      If you already own a desktop and two laptops, I'm starting to wonder why exactly an iPad is "not an option"...it evidently isn't because of price...

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    13. Re:Netbooks still have their uses... by TangoMargarine · · Score: 1

      *a desktop, two laptops, and an Android tablet. Do you also own 3 iPhones?

      --
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    14. Re:Netbooks still have their uses... by herrnova · · Score: 1

      Nope, just 1 android phone. And one of the laptop's has been retired, it now sits in my closet, as a backup. And as to why iPads are not an option, well there are a couple reasons. $500 is a bit more than I am willing to spend on a tablet, the closed nature of it, and well, I've discovered I'm not into tablets. I've tried out friends iPad's, and while they are nifty, and are probably great for people that like them, I just didn't care for it.

    15. Re:Netbooks still have their uses... by herrnova · · Score: 1

      I know there are ways of doing it on a mac relatively easially, but I've gotten used to how it's done on windows, "+u for ü same for o and a, and alt+s for ß I spent a month on a mac, and while I got quicker at using the mac shortcuts for those keys, I never got anywhere near as quick at typing in German as I am on my windows computer. Also, there's the fact that I feel completely lost in OSX.

    16. Re:Netbooks still have their uses... by pdxdada · · Score: 1

      I'm typing this on a MacBook running Ubuntu. I routinely type in a couple different languages, so a while ago I set it up so that when I press the apple key, my keyboard setup toggles between US, German and Russian, which is a lot faster than hitting (and having to remember) a bunch of key combinations. I'd be much obliged if anyone could tell me how to do this on OS X or Windows.

      --
      Don't mess with the bunny, outsideworld.org
    17. Re:Netbooks still have their uses... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually I run Windows with ALTGR+u for u-umlaut etc.
      There's a keyboard layout editor for Windows you can use to easily configure it how you want.

    18. Re:Netbooks still have their uses... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Since Lion, it's even simpler: just as in iOS, just keep the letter pressed which resembles the letter you want most. A screen pops up with all the accent options. Choose which option using the numbers below it, and that's it.

      http://www.macgasm.net/2011/07/05/lion-push-and-hold-gets-you-ios-inspired-accented-characters/

    19. Re:Netbooks still have their uses... by _merlin · · Score: 1

      Sounds like shit - how do you get a vowel to repeat? Long term Mac user here, that just sounds like another reason to put off upgrading to Lion as long as possible.

    20. Re:Netbooks still have their uses... by The_Noid · · Score: 3, Insightful

      That's a bad interface because it forces you to wait. When I'm typing a text I do not want to wait for some slow popup menu to come up, I just want to type the required key combo with my normal fast typing speed.

      That interface would be nice if they also listed the key combo you can use, so you can learn it so next time you can type your character without waiting.

    21. Re:Netbooks still have their uses... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There's an international keyboard in Mac too.

    22. Re:Netbooks still have their uses... by dargaud · · Score: 1

      For all the weird chars, I used to know all the Windows Alt codes by heart, but since moving to Linux I found out that setting the useless Caps-Lock key as a compose key is the best thing since sliced bread. It's so intuitive, it's surprising. I've never typed an Eszett in my life and I got it rith on the first try just now: Compose-s-s. Same for everything: Compose-`-e gives you an e with an accent. Compose-?-? gives you an upside down question mark. Compose-=-e gives you the Euro sign, etc... The order doesn't matter. On a Mac keyboard I can't even figure out how to type a pipe symbol in bash.

      --
      Non-Linux Penguins ?
    23. Re:Netbooks still have their uses... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      the key character is slash ( / = shift + 7 )
      if you want it leaning more vertically, you do option + 7
      if you want it leaning even more to the left (i.e., backslash), you do shift + option + 7.

      My euro sign if shift + 4.
      Consequentlty, dollar is $ option + 4, with cent being shift + option + 4.

    24. Re:Netbooks still have their uses... by stewbacca · · Score: 1

      System Prefs - Language & Text - Input Sources tab - select the pertinent languages you want. Once you've done that, the flag of the country that is currently active is displayed in the top right of the menu bar next to your time/volume/wifi signal strength stuff. Click the flag to change to one of the other languages you selected.

      Keep in mind, this is only for keyboard input. If you want to change your entire system, that's also under Language & Text, but you have to log out and back in for it to take effect (not restart, just log out).

    25. Re:Netbooks still have their uses... by sootman · · Score: 1

      > On a Mac keyboard I can't even figure out how
      > to type a pipe symbol in bash.

      Seriously? It's shift-\, just above the Return key, same as on every (US) PC keyboard I've seen in the last 15 years.

      --
      Dear Slashdot: next time you want to mess with the site, add a rich-text editor for comments.
    26. Re:Netbooks still have their uses... by dargaud · · Score: 1

      Not there on localized keyboard. Hence why I always prefer US keyboards for programming anyway, no matter what the OS.

      --
      Non-Linux Penguins ?
  13. Re:The future belongs to tablets (with optional KB by mirix · · Score: 1

    Pretty much. There isn't much I don't need a keyboard for, and when I'm watching something it doubles as a 'tablet support device'.

    On the el camino front - due to the same fact that leads people to believe Australia will survive nuclear war, they also missed the memo that "utes" are out of style.
    see here.

    --
    Sent from my PDP-11
  14. Tables are a netbook competitor by perpenso · · Score: 1

    iPad killed the netbook market.

    I doubt it. Otherwise we wouldn't be seeing Acer continue with their Aspire One line either. They'd be just focusing on their Iconia tablet line.

    When a bunch of vendors try to create/enter a new market, and then most of them change their minds, I think it is fair to say the market "died" to some degree. It may be more accurate to say that tablets killed the market. The iPad being the first demonstrable case of a tablet being effective competition to a netbook. Its hard to image a potential netbook customer not wondering if a tablet would be a better idea.

    Personally I find an iPad with an external bluetooth keyboard to be quite capable at the simple word processing and spreadsheet tasks one might use a netbook for.

    I think a tablet is a complementary product for desktops and laptops, and it is a competing product for netbooks. I also think this will eventually change. In the future I expect some tablet device to basically be somewhat similar to the CPU "box" of a desktop. When mobile it acts like a tablet, when at your desk in its dock its just the "CPU" with external storage, keyboard and display connecting to it. Not terribly different than connecting a laptop to a full sized keyboard and monitor when at your desk.

    1. Re:Tables are a netbook competitor by IANAAC · · Score: 1

      I think a tablet is a complementary product for desktops and laptops, and it is a competing product for netbooks. I also think this will eventually change. In the future I expect some tablet device to basically be somewhat similar to the CPU "box" of a desktop. When mobile it acts like a tablet, when at your desk in its dock its just the "CPU" with external storage, keyboard and display connecting to it. Not terribly different than connecting a laptop to a full sized keyboard and monitor when at your desk.

      I think you're right in saying that a dockable tablet will eventually replace netooks. But I don't think we're there yet, because when "docked" with a keyboard, it still isn't as useful as a netbook or a notebook, if only because the tablet applications themselves aren't as powerful as their desktop equivalents or don't translate well to a desktop experience. When I'm out and about I don't see many tablets. I do, however, still see a lot of netbooks. Yes, there may be a lot of tablets used at home or in business, but that's not what I'm still seeing out in public.

    2. Re:Tables are a netbook competitor by perpenso · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I think a tablet is a complementary product for desktops and laptops, and it is a competing product for netbooks. I also think this will eventually change. In the future I expect some tablet device to basically be somewhat similar to the CPU "box" of a desktop. When mobile it acts like a tablet, when at your desk in its dock its just the "CPU" with external storage, keyboard and display connecting to it. Not terribly different than connecting a laptop to a full sized keyboard and monitor when at your desk.

      I think you're right in saying that a dockable tablet will eventually replace netooks. But I don't think we're there yet, because when "docked" with a keyboard, it still isn't as useful as a netbook or a notebook, if only because the tablet applications themselves aren't as powerful as their desktop equivalents or don't translate well to a desktop experience. When I'm out and about I don't see many tablets. I do, however, still see a lot of netbooks. Yes, there may be a lot of tablets used at home or in business, but that's not what I'm still seeing out in public.

      Apple adapted their Mac word processor, spreadsheet and presentation applications for the iPad. Personally I think they are pretty capable and a good user experience with an external keyboard at least. With the onscreen keyboard I would only suggest brief usage. YMMV.

    3. Re:Tables are a netbook competitor by IANAAC · · Score: 1

      Apple adapted their Mac word processor, spreadsheet and presentation applications for the iPad. Personally I think they are pretty capable and a good user experience with an external keyboard at least. With the onscreen keyboard I would only suggest brief usage. YMMV.

      I don't have either a Mac or an iPad, so I don't know...

      Do the iPad word processing/spreadsheet and presentation apps compare favorably with the desktop Mac versions? I know that the Android versions don't come anywhere close to Windows desktop Office or Open/LibreOffice versions, which you can currently run with no trouble on a netbook.

      You can pretty much run any kind of desktop application on a netbook. The same can't be said for a tablet (again, I don't own an iPad - I'm talking tablets in general). While the iPad may currently be the best selling tablet, I don't envision that to always be the case, unless Apple is suddenly willing to drastically reduce its price - something history has shown Apple won't do.

    4. Re:Tables are a netbook competitor by sortius_nod · · Score: 0

      Not sure where you go when you're "out & about", but every second person on the train to work in the morning & home in the afternoon has an iPad. Not just a tablet, an iPad. I rarely see kindles or android tablets.

      The only people who have any form of *book are business people with full sized laptops, not netbooks, doing work.

      Your anecdote is based in being blind to reality & creating a reality to support your claims. Netbooks are dead, and have been for about a year. I owned one of the first EEEPCs from Asus, hated every moment. The keyboard was too small, the screen was too small, the whole thing was... guess what... too small. Now my iPad, that's fine for the train, my 15 XPS, that's fine for working or gaming on the road. The closest thing to a Netbook I've deployed in my 17 years in IT is the latest generation of Sony Vaio Z series. That's a AU$3000 laptop, a far cry from the price of netbooks, but just as light with a much larger screen & a much better battery.

    5. Re:Tables are a netbook competitor by IANAAC · · Score: 2

      Your anecdote is based in being blind to reality & creating a reality to support your claims.

      Just because my reality doesn't fit your reality doesn't mean that mine doesn't exist. It just means that our realities our different. It's silly to try to invalidate one anecdote with another by calling something that doesn't fit your world view as "blind".

      I might have taken the second part of your post seriously had you not tried to wipe out an opposing view by calling it "blind".

    6. Re:Tables are a netbook competitor by Belial6 · · Score: 1

      One deal with GoToMyPC and the tablet would not only be just as powerful for applications as your desktop, the applications would be the ones on your desktop.

    7. Re:Tables are a netbook competitor by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, but you live in some backwater third world country. Try living in a real city in a civilized country and you won't be seeing anyone with an iPad.

    8. Re:Tables are a netbook competitor by perpenso · · Score: 1

      Apple adapted their Mac word processor, spreadsheet and presentation applications for the iPad. Personally I think they are pretty capable and a good user experience with an external keyboard at least. With the onscreen keyboard I would only suggest brief usage. YMMV.

      Do the iPad word processing/spreadsheet and presentation apps compare favorably with the desktop Mac versions? I know that the Android versions don't come anywhere close to Windows desktop Office or Open/LibreOffice versions, which you can currently run with no trouble on a netbook.

      I've used both the Mac and iPad versions (and OpenOffice as well), in my opinion the iPad versions compare favorably. However I'm not a features heavy sort of user. My needs are modest. Hell, I'd probably still be using Office 97 if I hadn't gone back to school in recent history. :-)

      FWIW, the apps are Words, Numbers and Keynote. http://www.apple.com/ipad/from-the-app-store/apps-by-apple/

  15. Re:The future belongs to tablets (with optional KB by DiSKiLLeR · · Score: 1

    Plenty of netbooks connect to 3G.

    My HP mini 5102 does, for example.

    And it has 8+ hrs of battery life. And it runs Windows 7 so I still get Office, and all my other native windows apps (including ones I need for my job, like vSphere Client.)

    --
    You can tell how powerful someone is by the magnitude of the crime they can commit and be able to get away with.
  16. Re:The future belongs to tablets (with optional KB by tepples · · Score: 1

    The only difference between a netbook and a tablet is a keyboard.

    That and the operating system, and the manufacturer's restrictions if any on what applications may be run.

    On the software side, there needs to be good support for the usual types of productivity software such as word processing and the occasional "presentation".

    But very little for the apps that I run. Yeah, I know, sample size of one, but is there a counterpart to, say, IDLE (a Python code editor and debugger) on Android or iOS? Before I go out and buy a tablet to run SL4A, how good is SL4A?

  17. Re:The future belongs to tablets (with optional KB by formfeed · · Score: 1

    The only difference between a netbook and a tablet is a keyboard.

    That and the operating system, and the manufacturer's restrictions if any on what applications may be run.

    That and the fact that you can tilt a netbook and nothing happens. And the touch screen.

    And of course all of these features together: a small but wide screen that can be tilted might also be bearable for text, a small screen that doesn't is a pain and only useful for people without friends to watch movies.

  18. Netbooks are extremely popular in the Third World. by goruka · · Score: 4, Informative

    Here in South America, netbooks outsell notebooks by a wide margin. They are much more capable than cheap tablets of the same price and much cheaper than actual fully featured computers. They are also used a lot by business people who don't really want to carry around a full computer.

  19. Take not Google by Foxhoundz · · Score: 1

    With so many manufacturers setting their sites on mobile devices, ultra-light/portable laptops/netbooks are going the way of dodo. Yet, Google is still trying to expand its Chromebook line of netbook which are, in essence, overpriced netbooks that only run Google Chrome.

    1. Re:Take not Google by arkane1234 · · Score: 1

      Netbooks/laptops aren't going the way of the dodo any more than a desktop is.
      It's just a really small, anemically powered desktop...

      --
      -- This space for lease, low setup fee, inquire within!
  20. Re:The future belongs to tablets (with optional KB by symbolset · · Score: 1

    Try the Transformer Prime. It has a dockable keyboard. Or get a Bluetooth keyboard for your other tablet. Using it like a tablet is just the USP. It's a form factor, not a religion. You can attach stuff to your tablet. We just mostly do that wireless now, and only when we want or need to.

    --
    Help stamp out iliturcy.
  21. profit... by bcrowell · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The subject line of your post was "price..." The subject line of my reply is "profit..."

    Say that on a TV game show you're asked to name as many luxury cars as possible in 60 seconds. It's easy: Cadillac, Rolls-Royce, Lexus, Porsche, ... Notice how almost all of those have been on the market for a really, really long time. Now try the same thing with low-end cars. Uh, ... Chevette, Hyundai Excel, VW Bug, AMC Gremlin, ... Notice how most of those are no longer on the market.

    The similar tension, uncertainty, and chaos at the bottom end of the PC price spectrum is not a new phenomenon. The computer analogs of the Chevette et al. are machines like the Great Quality (ca. 1997), and the Everex GPC (ca. 2008). Notice how those are no longer on the market.

    It's really, really hard to stay in business when your profit margin is low.

    Basically the only way to make a $200 computer (desktop or netbook) is something like this. You produce them in Asia, where labor costs are low. You avoid R&D like the plague. You have nobody working for you who has the slightest expertise in software. You don't write documentation. You don't do support. You have a web site that's only in Chinese, and it has no useful content. You make your hardware specs so low that it takes 30 or 45 seconds for a browser to start up.

    Why would it be a surprise that users then fail to beat a path to your door? Your sales are low, and your profits are low. You go out of business.

    1. Re:profit... by icebraining · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Say that on a TV game show you're asked to name as many luxury cars as possible in 60 seconds. It's easy: Cadillac, Rolls-Royce, Lexus, Porsche, ... Notice how almost all of those have been on the market for a really, really long time. Now try the same thing with low-end cars. Uh, ... Chevette, Hyundai Excel, VW Bug, AMC Gremlin, ... Notice how most of those are no longer on the market.

      You do realize you're comparing companies with car models? "Porsche" isn't a car, it's a company, like Hyundai or Volkswagen.

      And the Bug was made from 1938 to 2003. Hardly a good example of a model who didn't manage to stay long in business.

    2. Re:profit... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh I realize most of them are borderline crap. However lets say you want to buy a computer that you use in a class room for your kid. Are you going to buy a top of the line HP Envy? Or a 200 dollar netbook from walmart (who cares the brand)?

      People are cheap. That is why I said price. The price went up and in a cost conscious group of end users, sales fell off. I know *many* people who were saying 'hey i am snagging one of these because they are cheap'. They were almost treating them as throwaway. Something went wrong 'it didnt matter much they didnt cost much'.

      They changed the price in a price sensitive group. So it is not surprising what sales did.

      Also your have your car analogy wrong. Name 10 brands out the first group. Each one had sub brands in them. Ill even give you the 911 and the RR Phantom. Out of your second group Chevy, Hyundai, and VW are still around. AMC well thats a different story... But you may still recognize one of their brands the Jeep. Even the high end brands do not keep them around forever. Such as the Lamborghini Countach. Also with cars they usually just rebrand them such as the ford foucs (aka escort). They want to create marketing buzz. As at that low level the differentiation is about brand (coke vs pepsi).

      Also your idea of how a business works is a 'bit' wrong. When they get marginal rev equal to marginal cost they are usually making money. Now there is also opportunity cost here. Which may be they may be able to make *better* mr=mc by dropping the line. Now without looking at the financials we are both speculating why they are dropping the line.

  22. Dell's netbook offering was absolutely awful by weevlos · · Score: 0

    I am frequently part of a Nagios on-call rotation. I brought a netbook with me nearly everywhere I went to respond to outages. I use them because they are light and I don't have to worry about the cost of them if they get stolen or ruined in a bike crash. I've been through 3 of them so far.

    Dell's keyboard was absolutely awful for syntax-heavy shell operations. I write a dizzying sequence of regular expressions as part of regular maintenance operations, complicated by frequent escapes because I typically was so goddamned drunk that if I used quotes I would forget whether I was nesting quotes or not, or if I was in the middle of a quoted string at all. Dell's keyboard was absolutely unbearable, and I could not use it to write bash while wasted at a bar with dead in the water infrastructure which is basically the single most important function of a netbook.

    I spent about 3 weeks with a Dell netbook because the CFO of our company said we were going all-Dell because we got some pittance of a discount. I said I would no longer be on-call until I got an Acer Aspire One (best shellscripting netbook keyboard, hands down) and it was about 3 days until one got ordered. This doesn't even begin to touch the idiocy of the Dell-only rule, as I'm sure plenty of /.ers are familiar with dysfunctionality of Dell's networking, SAN and NAS offerings which cannot be so cheaply replaced as a netbook.

    Anyways, Dell got out of this market because nobody wanted to buy their garbage netbooks, with good reason. In fact, the only computer from a major manufacturer that I can tolerate in this size/weight profile is the Macbook Air-- and it doesn't even remotely begin to compete on price. Losing/wrecking a $300 device is one thing, when an identically configured machine costs $1400 its a much bigger deal.

  23. Mini 9 was great... by rklrkl · · Score: 1

    I bought a Dell Mini 9 a few years back for 149 pounds and I still use it regularly - more than I use my last purchase, a firesale HP TouchPad. In fact, my Xmas present this year is to be a replacement battery for the Mini 9 because it's only charging to less than half its original capacity.

    What seemed to happen after my Mini 9 purchase was that netbooks with 9/10" screens started to get rarer, solid state drives (essential for a netbook surely?) disappeared, netbooks got more expensive (barely cheaper than a low-end laptop) and then tablets turned up (though I personally think the netbook form is far more productive than a tablet).

    What I'd like to see is the original netbook spec come back. but beefed up a bit:

    * A low price (must be lower than a cheap laptop).
    * Dual core 64-bit processor.
    * Upgradeable to at least 4GB RAM.
    * Solid state drive (32GB isn't that expensive now).
    * Either a normal 9/10" screen or a touchscreen variant (for Windows 8/Android/whatever).
    * No fan! The entire netbook must be solid state - no moving parts.
    * Linux pre-installed so at least we know there's Linux drivers for it.

    Bring that in at under 200 pounds/$300 and I'm interested. A shame Dell isn't an option now because they got it right with the Mini 9, IMHO.

    1. Re:Mini 9 was great... by jones_supa · · Score: 1

      The solid state drive and especially the passive cooling require so much sophistication that they are probably gonna crank up the price noticeably. On the other hand, the other items mentioned in your list should be doable fairly cheaply.

  24. Re:The future belongs to tablets (with optional KB by oakgrove · · Score: 1

    Before I go out and buy a tablet to run SL4A, how good is SL4A?

    Sl4a is great. The only real problem is not being able to pass command line arguments to your scripts and the inability to create a solid GUI interface. That having been said, I wrote a killer barcode app that interfaces with Amazons ecs api. Whipped it up in python in a few days and have made a ton of money with it.

    --
    The soylentnews experiment has been a dismal failure.
  25. It's a race to the bottom by rsilvergun · · Score: 2

    the trouble is because they're smaller people want to pay less. Odd thing really, since it used to be the other way around :). But then again there's also the perception of less functionality. Whatever. But I think it was Sony that made the point that netbooks are bad for the industry. They drive down the value / price and profit margin of regular laptops. Dell's big enough they compete with themselves. My guess would be they were finding that cheap netbooks were cannibalizing the sale of more expensive laptops. Especially the high end ones with longer battery life...

    --
    Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
  26. Re:Netbooks are extremely popular in the Third Wor by phantomfive · · Score: 0

    Really? People use netbooks frequently in the developing world now? When I was living in Latin America a decade ago, computer use was so low that calligraphy was still a valid career choice.

    --
    "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
  27. Re:iPad killed the tablet market... by neurocutie · · Score: 1

    iPad killed the netbook market.

    At this point, you'd be more accurate (still not accurate though), to say that the iPad killed the TABLET market. The netbook market is still very much alive...

    And Dell killed the Dell tablet and netbook market... doesn't mean that either the tablet *or* netbook market is dead, just that Dell is...

  28. dell?! by macshit · · Score: 1

    Whoa, Dell's still around....?! I had no idea... (really!)

    --
    We live, as we dream -- alone....
    1. Re:dell?! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Dumbass doesn't realize one of the largest PC manufacturers still exists, news at 11.

      lolmoron, why are you even on this site?

  29. My netbook rules by qualityassurancedept · · Score: 1

    I have an Acer Aspire One D250 that I got from the refurbished bin at Microcenter like a year and half ago or so and I love that little beast. It's running 10.04.3 Lucid. I put a 500GB hard drive in it and I basically use it as a portable storage device for movies and music but the thing that really sets it apart is that it will rip a DVD. So, its a lot more functional than a tablet. Of course, Dell is a mass market kind of company, so a boutique item like netbooks aren't really in their purview but if you can pick one up for a couple of hundred bucks like I did then you get a device that is a zillion times more useful than a freakin Kindle Fire. I can read books with Kindle Cloud reader in Firefox AND I can edit sound files with Audacity.,,, just to give an example. I just recently got a Samsung with an E-450 processor (running Mint 12) not because I needed a better computer than the Acer but because I wanted a bigger screen... the two computers together give me just about everything I could want in portable computing for a total weight of about 7 pounds. I think weight is probably one of the most important factors now. I am not going to spend 1000 dollars on a Mac Book Air when I can buy four or five of these little computers.

    --
    if your life is such a big joke then why should I care?
  30. Comma usage by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There is ALWAYS a comma before a conjunction hat joins two clauses. Comma is sometimes used before a conjunction that joins a list. All of the following are correct.

    John hit the ball, and he celebrated.
    Hohn hit the ball and celebrated.
    John hit the ball, stood on his hands, and celebrated.
    John hit the ball, the wall, and the shawl.
    John, Bill, and Sara celebrated.

    There are lots of commas in front of and.

  31. Equivalent by tepples · · Score: 0

    Sometimes one doesn't exactly need a computer equivalent to a MacBook Air, nor a development platform for iPhone or iPad apps, just a small computer in general. A cheap 10" laptop running Windows or Xubuntu fills this role. Apple has just chosen not to target the extreme low end. So please allow me to rephrase: You just have to somehow convince the one holding your purse strings that a computer equivalent to a MacBook Air is worth the price tag compared to a low-end ASUS or Acer.

  32. Good riddance to a bad idea by msobkow · · Score: 0

    The netbook has always struck me as the stupidest computing idea I'd ever heard of. A "machine" with a screen too small to see, a keyboard too small for my fingers, and too little memory or power for anything more complex than browsing a website.

    The pad is a far more effective form factor for serving that ultra-portable not-a-real-machine market.

    The netbook was the mutant offspring of low power CPUs and the evil dreams of a wanna-be marketing overlord, not sound engineering or impressive technology.

    --
    I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
    1. Re:Good riddance to a bad idea by 0123456 · · Score: 1

      The netbook has always struck me as the stupidest computing idea I'd ever heard of. A "machine" with a screen too small to see, a keyboard too small for my fingers, and too little memory or power for anything more complex than browsing a website.

      The tablet has always struck me as the stupidest computing idea I'd ever heard of. A "machine" with a screen too small to be useful, no keyboard, unable to run any software I used and with too little memory or power for anything more complex than browsing a web site or playing a video.

      Oh, hang on...

      The pad is a far more effective form factor for serving that ultra-portable not-a-real-machine market.

      Tablets are an expensive way to browse the web, watch videos or play simple games, though they do have a fair number of business uses in areas that don't need keyboards. They're a crappy alternative to a netbook if you want to do actual productive work that needs a keyboard.

    2. Re:Good riddance to a bad idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My netbook is awesome.

      10" screen. Great keyboard. Small and light enough to throw in a backpack and forget. With it, I can and do get real work done.

      Pads are good for consuming. We know this. But if you need something more and you want to be comfortably portable, then these small laptops are a fine solution.

      This message was written on a netbook.

    3. Re:Good riddance to a bad idea by msobkow · · Score: 1

      My bigger beef is not the screen size, but the keyboard size. I've yet to try a netbook with a usable keyboard, and if I can't use the keyboard, I may as well not have one at all and go with a tablet device.

      However, in reality I'm more inclined to look at 14 inch and 15.6 inch laptops. Most of my computer use involves typing, not consuming. I'll be choosing a unit based on input devices, not size. I need a usable keyboard. I need enough memory to run things. I need one of the old IBM style eraser-nub "mice" instead of a trackpad.

      As far as I know, that means I'll be buying a Lenovo. I've never seen anyone else use the erase nub inputs, and I hate, hate, hate, hate HATE trackpads!

      And when I'm producing, I want a screen that shows me a reasonable amount of what I'm producing. I can't see that happening with a 10 inch screen or even smaller.

      I can see the utility of a tablet, but netbooks have never and will never make sense to me.

      --
      I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
    4. Re:Good riddance to a bad idea by dzfoo · · Score: 1

      Tablets are an expensive way to browse the web, watch videos or play simple games, though they do have a fair number of business uses in areas that don't need keyboards.

      Since browsing the web, watching videos and playing simple games is not really a first necessity, people who want such luxury appear to be willing to pay for it.

      They're a crappy alternative to a netbook if you want to do actual productive work that needs a keyboard.

      Says you. This ignores the many reported instances of creative or professional people using an iPad successfully for actual work.

      Plus, you could always attach a Bluetooth keyboard if you have an aversion to typing on flat glass.

      Imagine that, a device that is nice for browsing the web, watching videos, playing games, and is useful for productive creative and professional work!

      That it costs higher than a crap netbook that does half of this, half as good, does not seem to be an obstacle to adoption.

                -dZ.

      --
      Carol vs. Ghost
      ...Can you save Christmas?
    5. Re:Good riddance to a bad idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Netbooks with 10" screens have keyboards which are something like 93% the size of a standard keyboard. That 7%, in my case and with my average hands, is not missed. I find I can touch type with no difficulty at all. I write for a living, so content creation for me is all about typing.

      The early ASUS eee computers with 7" screens were cute, but I agree, unusably small, which is why, I think, they died out so fast.

      And I agree, trackpads suck. Period. And I also agree, those trackpoint nipples are also an exercise in frustration. The mouse, however, is by far one of the single greatest innovations ever to grace human technology and ergonomic design. Touchscreens are also an excellent solution, and I'd like to see them integrated with keyboards. A small, light, inexpensive, long-battery laptop with a touchscreen? That seems like the next logical step.

    6. Re:Good riddance to a bad idea by jones_supa · · Score: 1

      The netbook has always struck me as the stupidest computing idea I'd ever heard of.

      I think it's one of the coolest computing things of the lately years.

  33. That old myth? Shattered. by SuperKendall · · Score: 2

    Tablets are more oriented towards media consumption -- games, video, that sort of thing.

    Wow, someone still labors under that misconception? Who thawed you out of cyro-sleep?

    First of all, tablets never had the problems you mentioned. Even back in the distant days of Windows tablets artists liked them. Now with the iPad that is still true, but it's useful for so much more content creation beyond art - movies, music, and even REAL writers find they like to use the iPad for serious writing.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
  34. Re: Flash drives by stephanruby · · Score: 1

    Yes and no. Flash drives (both inside laptops and inside tablets) killed the low cost netbook market (not that it killed it completely, but it put a serious damper on it).

    Flash drives make laptops and tablets thinner and weight less, not just because they're smaller and weight less themselves, although that's part of it, but because they don't require those large batteries and they keep a charge for longer so you usually don't have to lug around an extra bulky power adapter with you.

    Not to mention, they start up almost instantly, and since most of the time you're not worried about losing the entire charge, not having to hunt down a power outlet when you're at a coffee shop is one extra less hassle you have to contend with.

    And yes, you could argue that the iPad killed the netbook market, but personally if I see a colleague desperately trying to take notes during a meeting with his iPad, I certainly feel more pity for him than envy. Why use a iPad for taking notes when you could easily be using a Macbook Pro, a Chromebook/Notebowook, or simply a pen and paper (sometimes even any ballpoint pen plus a napkin would be better). And unless you're a salesman and actually need a nice display device for your quick one-on-one sales presentations, or are on TV and are playing some kind of uber-cool CSI detective, there is no reason for you to be using an iPad to peck your notes awkwardly into.

    And yes, I understand you can set up a nice little keyboard and a nice little stand for your iPad, but really what's the point of the simplicity of the iPad if you have to carry around and set up a bunch of fragile accessories almost everywhere you go. For me, even the screen unlocking gesture is one gesture too many for taking notes, I much prefer flipping my laptop open and see it magically light up in less than a second or two, while having access to the mechanical keyboard at the very same time it lights up.

  35. I refuse to get a tablet by DeeEff · · Score: 1

    Until I have no more need for a keyboard. I don't see that in the foreseeable future, so I'm sticking with my netbook for university. You lug a 15" computer 2km back and forth every day and tell me you don't want something lighter.

    The battery life is where most of the value lies anyways. 9 hours of battery life means I can leave the damn thing on all day and never have to worry about running low.

    Bah! You newfangled kiddies and your tablets sicken me!

  36. Hackintosh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The Dell Mini is/was the PERFECT netbook to make into a Hackintosh, because it was 100% compatible.

    1. Re:Hackintosh by jones_supa · · Score: 1

      Is OSX usable on such a low screen resolution?

  37. I still sort of use mine by bbqpope · · Score: 1

    I have an aver NetBoot I got on clearance at target last year. I used it a lot Neil work got me an iPad. The NetBoot is not downstairs hooked up to a few USB drives happily receiving backups from my desktop and wife's computer and serving up music to my squeeze box. It's probably using a lot less power than the aging and full terastation it replaced. I had wanted to build a new NAS of some sort, but the NetBoot works fine, if not a little slow.

    1. Re:I still sort of use mine by bbqpope · · Score: 3, Funny

      Jesus... Typos.... Can you tell I typed this on an iPad.? That's the one thing I miss about my little netbook....

  38. Portable media? by identity0 · · Score: 1

    I wonder how much of the drop in laptop/netbook sales is due to the massive portable media avaiable?

    Lately I have found myself carrying around a portable HDD that is 1TB in size and carries almost all of my data. I don't really have to take my laptop to school, when I can just take everything with me and plug my drive in to a school computer.

    No need for an 'on-the-go' computer, and it works for sharing files with friends, between my multiple computers, etc.

  39. Dell Market.. by steve8819 · · Score: 1

    Dell is good but it can't compete hp,apple and Sony..Mostly i pad killed the dell market..

  40. 180 cpm on a tablet? by dutchwhizzman · · Score: 1

    Try typing an average of 180 characters per minute on a tablet and then repeat what you just said. Then try it 10 hours without a charge and see if you can still use that tablet to post your reply here.

    --
    I was promised a flying car. Where is my flying car?
    1. Re:180 cpm on a tablet? by SuperKendall · · Score: 1

      Try typing an average of 180 characters per minute on a tablet

      You mean on an iPad? I can always tell the Apple Haters, they are the ones literally unable to say "iPad" and must use "tablet" as if my not naming The Tablet That Must Not Be Named they can ward it off.

      As to your question, you can reach 180 cpm pretty easily since I can use any bluetooth keyboard I like. If you can type 180 characters per minute on any keyboard you can on an iPad.

      You could have saved yourself some embarrassment by reading EITHER of my links.

      --
      "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    2. Re:180 cpm on a tablet? by WNight · · Score: 1

      You mean on an iPad? I can always tell the Apple Haters, ...

      No, he means any tablet.

      In your world there are only two classes of people

      1) Those who think that all tablet devices are iPads and all touchscreen phones are iPhones.

      2) Apple haters.

  41. Macbook pro is better quality than Dells by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I bought a Dell Inspiron Mini for uni because I wanted battery life. However I found it only lasted for like 5 hours and it sucked at 1080p. While I was in Indonesia I was checking out Macbook's in an Apple Store. I found them all lightweight, thin and I knew they had excellent 10 hour battery life. So I bought my self I a 1300k Macbook pro. Problem solved. Great battery life, great for movies, USB ports, doesn't overheat while playing games and a DVD drive and in fact it also works quite nice as a computer. I can do all the word processing/excel I want for hours and hours without being tethered to a power cord. It is the best laptop I have ever had. Previously I had a Dell Inspiron 1520. It overheated when playing games, battery life was low and it was extremely large and bulky. I am not Pro Mac OSX or Pro Windows. I like the quality of my Macbook pro. This is 2011 laptop quality should not be a problem anymore. It's not a price thing it's more I don't want to have these problem like bulk, weight and battery life in a laptop anymore and still have the same performance. This is what Dell really needs to work on.

  42. ... and features by dutchwhizzman · · Score: 1

    All i want is a 10-12" screen, 32-64G SSD, 3G and WiFi and a decent keyboard. I can put a low resource guzzling linux distro on it and do all of my work and some browsing and multi media on it. That way, 10+ hours of battery life wouldn't cost over $250. All that is for sale, is something with built in speakers, a webcam, a hard disk, preinstalled windows way too much USB, HDMI and whatnot ports, way too powerful CPUs and a screen resolution that requires most people to use a magnifying glass to actually use to the fullest when doing text editing. Those things add to cost, without making the computers useful for 90% of people that want an ultra portable machine on a budget.

    India can make a sub $100 computer but hasn't started production, the OLPC failed because a lot of companies started getting involved. I think the industry doesn't want us to have cheap computers, because there's no profit in it for them. There is a market of billions for netbooks, but you won't be able to get any money out of them (in the first year or two) once you've sold it. Companies don't look further than one or two years, because there's no shareholder value in looking ahead that far. I think that's what is happening here. The fact that you'll get a lot of people using computers, triggering an economic change that would almost certainly benefit the manufacturers of said netbooks, well, who really cares about that?

    --
    I was promised a flying car. Where is my flying car?
  43. In your world by SuperKendall · · Score: 0

    In your world there are only two classes of people

    No, people are distinct.

    Except for Apple Hater that is. Apple Haters show the same exact qualities of ignorance across the board -almost as if a hive mind were involved. A particularly emotional and uneducated hive-mind, but still.

    So to recap, there are many different kinds of people but Apple haters have chosen to ditch that distinctiveness in their fog of hate.

    I note you didn't even respond to my point - which is another sign of the Appel Hater, since they are incapable of processing new information (which is why they cannot retain even information a decade old like macs supporting multiple mouse buttons). As is whining about how people talk about their being labeled Apple Haters.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    1. Re:In your world by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The only overly emotional and idiotic person here is you. Nobody said anything that could even be remotely construed as "Apple hating" in this thread. Your paranoia, insecurity and rapid fanaticism is causing you to see things that don't exist.

    2. Re:In your world by SuperKendall · · Score: 1

      The only overly emotional and idiotic person here is you.

      Yes, I agree, it is you. After all I have been dispassionate and ruthlessly logical in all messages... and here you are accusing me of emotion! Well it would seem you are the only emotional one here...

      Perhaps if you calm down, and get the Hater out of your system you can start think rationally again.

      I will let you have the last response since the Apple Hater cannot help but respond, even when it is to his own ruin...

      --
      "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
  44. Wait, actually external keyboard not even required by SuperKendall · · Score: 1

    On one of the many iPad speed typing applications I can hit 34 wpm typing on glass without even warming up (97% accuracy), with an average of about six characters per word that's 204 cpm, above the number you requested...

    I can understand how you might not understand that to be possible typing on some other laggy tablet. But on a "tablet" (I will not use the "i" word) with good response you can type really quickly since fast typing relies on muscle memory for key locations, NOT the shapes of keys (pay attention when you touch type - you don't feel out keys, you hit them).

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
  45. In praise of netbooks. by Animats · · Score: 1

    The PC industry hates netbooks because they're so cheap. For about a year, it looked like the future of personal computing was going to be $100 netbooks sold in bubble-packs in drugstores. There were desperate efforts to sell "more computer per computer".

    Despite industry hostility, netbooks continue to get better. The entry-level ASUS netbooks are quite capable. I have the $266 model, the 1011 PX, and it will run programs like Blender and LTSpice, which were once considered heavy-duty applications. If you're doing actual work, instead of passively consuming entertainment, you need a real keyboard.

  46. This is what happens when Microsoft controls OEMs. by Alex+Belits · · Score: 2

    The idea of "netbook" is a small laptop that is not intended to work as a desktop replacement. The original netbook, OLPC, was an educational project, however there is nothing that prevents this class of devices from being used as consuner (facebook/youtube/media/text editing) or business (web applications, note taking) device.

    Now, what all those three groups of applications have in common? They GIVE ABSOLUTELY NO FUCKING REASON TO RUN WINDOWS. But noooo. Dell just had to market those netbooks the same way Microsoft marketed Windows CE/Mobile/Phone -- "they run Wiiiiindows!!!". Except, of course, Microsoft was lying through its teeth because no Windows application would run on a phone, and netbook manufacturers were only half lying because Windows applications would run, just crippled by lack of desktop screen resolution and performance.

    Apple and e-book readers' manufacturers had proven that consumers have absolutely no problem buying devices with ridiculously low performance, as long as those devices are intended and marketed for uses where such performance is appropriate. Thousands of bluetooth keyboard makers demonstrated that the most overpriced and crippled netbook ever -- a combination of iPad and a bluetooth keyboard in a leather case -- is a viable product. Now, Dell, Acer, MSI and other faithful Microsoft servants JUST HAD TO STUFF WINDOWS 7 WHERE IT DOES NOT BELONG, and then feel surprised that a $400 device with $250 functionality does not sell.

    Let it be a lesson for future hardware manufacturers -- if it's not a business or home desktop, or an equivalent of one, don't ever plan to ship it with Microsoft software.

    --
    Contrary to the popular belief, there indeed is no God.
  47. Meh. by PPH · · Score: 1

    Let me know when they unload their surplus production run for $99 a pop.

    And cycle through three CEOs in short order.

    --
    Have gnu, will travel.
  48. Harvard Business School prof on Dell by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Watch this and you'll see why Dell's fscked.

    http://gartner.mediasite.com/mediasite/play/9cfe6bba5c7941e09bee95eb63f769421d?t=1320659595

  49. They are extremely popular in the US too by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 2

    This idea that because Dell isn't doing them somehow they are "dead" is stupid. Dell is a big company no doubt but their mainstay is desktops and in particular corporate systems. I can understand why too, they do corporate support right.

    They were never big in the Netbook market. They got in it late, never really had very good offerings, and so on. ASUS is the real big name in netbooks. Acer, MSI, and HP are also all quite big, and Samsung is in there as well.

    What with working at a university in IT, I know a ton of people with Netbooks. Of those, precisely 0% have a Dell netbook. It just isn't a big brand for it. Some of these people have Dell desktops or laptops, but not a Dell netbook.

    I've never recommended a Dell netbook to anyone, I've never found it to be the best product for a task. Someone else always had something that was cheaper, faster, a better package, whatever.

    One of our students just got herself a new Netbook. Ended up getting an ASUS. For what she wanted, it was the best offering.

    They are used here the same way they are used there. Some people use them because they don't want to carry around a big computer. Others because they need a real computer but want it cheap. My dad has a Netbook for that reason. He wanted a portable computer, but his needs are simple and he wanted to spend a low amount. A Netbook was perfect.

    In my observation, Netbooks are bought by people who want a small, cheap, computer for whatever reason. Usually to do work on. Tablets are bought by people who want a toy to play with. Nothing wrong with that, but I don't see people using their tablets for work related purposes, I do see them using their Netbooks as such.

  50. Who Cares!? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I "ditched" Dell years ago...Allthe make now is expensive (cheap ly made shoddy) junk! Gee...Reminds me of (CR)Apple!!

  51. Re: Flash drives by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

    And yes, you could argue that the iPad killed the netbook market, but personally if I see a colleague desperately trying to take notes during a meeting with his iPad, I certainly feel more pity for him than envy. Why use a iPad for taking notes when you could easily be using a Macbook Pro, a Chromebook/Notebowook, or simply a pen and paper (sometimes even any ballpoint pen plus a napkin would be better).

    The negative of using laptops at meetings is it's like everybody builds a little wall in front of themselves. Meetings are supposed to bring people together to communicate, but laptops distance them.

    And people have all sorts of different types of meetings, but unless you're the one taking minutes, I don't find there's much note taking to be done. Jot down the odd diary date, and the odd to-do.

  52. NVIDIA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    NVIDIA, people want games not stick man pie throwing competitions! Once robbed, twice shy ...

  53. ARM: apps. Atom: price per LCD square inch. by tepples · · Score: 1

    ARM won't work because people demand to use their existing proprietary applications, whose publishers decline to recompile them for Linux on ARM. As for Atom, there are rumors on the Internets that Intel prices Atom CPUs based on the size of the device's screen.

    1. Re:ARM: apps. Atom: price per LCD square inch. by Sj0 · · Score: 1

      I tend to disagree. ARM will do much better in the next few years as android becomes more mature for tablets. The price point for such a device is plummetting, we're going to reach a point where it's too easy to sell a netbook with android on ARM.

      --
      It's been a long time.
  54. Price and apps that haven't been ported by tepples · · Score: 1

    Neither does a cell phone if you keep it in wifi only mode.

    But then you have to deal with the retail price of an unsubsidized smartphone, which exceeds that of a netbook.

    And a netbook with access to the cell network for increased connectivity will be just as expensive.

    Netbooks need the "increased connectivity" less than cell phones do. If you have a netbook, you can use apps that happen not to be ported to cell phones. To run a "desktop" app on a cell phone, you need a data plan over which to run VNC.

  55. Buses do not run every day by tepples · · Score: 1

    It's not only about high speed rail, it's also about buses and subways.

    In some cities in the United States, there are 59 days out of the year when public transit does not run. For example, Citilink buses in Fort Wayne, Indiana, do not run at night or on Saturday evenings. Nor do they run on Sundays, six major national holidays, or the day of the annual city parade. In some parts of town, they don't run at all on Saturdays. A car helps people run errands even on the weekends.

  56. Re:Wait, actually external keyboard not even requi by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If you're a proper touch typist, then yes, you do feel them. See those little nubs on F and J? Those are for orientation.

  57. Less of a big deal than you'd think by sean.peters · · Score: 1

    If you just need to type a few repeated letters ("oh noooo"), you can just tap the key repeatedly a few times. If you really need to type long strings of repeated letters (can't think of an application for this, but that's not to say there isn't one), you can turn off the alternate character thing discussed above.

    There really are some annoying aspects to Lion, but I've found that I can turn them all off. And some of the features are quite nice.

  58. Re:This is what happens when Microsoft controls OE by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I cannot help but to agree. I bought my Dell Inspiron Mini because it came preloaded with Ubuntu Linux. I have since upgraded Ubuntu to the next LTS version. It is a wonderful, stable and solid machine that I travel with. It runs all the diagnostic and development software I need for work as well as any communication and entertainment applications that keep me amused during and between flights. Although not a speed demon, it is still has a reasonably snappy performance. I tried to replace it with the EEEPad Transformer, but for all it's whiz-bang features Transformer/Android cannot match my Inspiron Mini/Ubuntu for sheer usefulness and flexibility.

  59. Re:The future belongs to tablets (with optional KB by jones_supa · · Score: 1

    Yep, there's many netbooks with integrated 3G.

  60. Re:This is what happens when Microsoft controls OE by 0ld_d0g · · Score: 1

    Well in the case of the iPad, Apple already had apps from the iphone that ran without even needing to be recompiled. So infact they did what MS did - They leveraged their existing platform with existing successful applications and existing user-demand to create a new market segment.

    Also the reason for decreased performance is *NOT* the OS. Its the pre-loaded shit that the OEMs put on it.. What they should have done is kept the stock NT kernel (which BTW can run even on a router spec SBC.) and replaced the shell with a custom UI that allowed you to install & launch regular win32 apps from their (OEM or MS) own repository. The only way an app would be accepted into this restircted set is if it is not CPU/Memory/IO intensive, doesn't install kernel components, etc.

    I don't necessarily disagree with your general idea, but don't agree with your inflammatory language and tone.