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Earthquakes That May Be Related To Fracking Close Ohio Oil Well
Frosty P writes "State leaders have ordered that four fluid-injection wells ('fracking') in eastern Ohio will be indefinitely prohibited from opening in the aftermath of heightened seismic activity in the area, an official said. A 4.0-magnitude quake struck Saturday afternoon near several wells that use 'fracking' to release oil deposits. It was the 11th in a series of minor earthquakes in the area."
.... fragile and precarious victory of common sense over big money. Fragile and precarious, yet a victory.
Religous speak to God. Insane are spoken to by God. When all shut up, one can finally hear Shostakovich in peace
And now the goals, for anti-fracking advocates, are:
(1) to identify features in this area's geology that appear contributive to the earthquakes. To wit:
"Dr. Won-Young Kim, one of the Columbia University experts asked by the state to examine possible connections between fracking and seismic activity, said that a problem could arise if fluid moves through the ground and affects 'a weak fault, waiting to be triggered.'"
(2) start fear-mongering re "weak fault[s], waiting to be triggered" a la doomsday flicks, since obviously carcinogens leeching to the water supply aren't sufficiently frightening; maybe sudden catastrophe is more convincing than a slow wasting.
Won't be long now till someone discovers that fracking might help turning the Big One pending into several minor quakes, and starts selling this idea.
that Correlation = Causation nowadays
This is a sensible response. If the current fracking program is affecting the local geology in this way then the fracking program should be changed.
This isn't news.
Don't be under the impression that this is news. The oil industry has been fracking for years. Decades even. Thus far the middle east and texas have failed spectacularly to fall into the sea.
Move along. Nothing to see here...
... about a political party/ideology being "anti-science."
Oh, wait, that'll never happen here. Wrong party/ideology, and this decision was 100% science-free hysteria.
Just sayin'.
Wouldn't it be better to have lots of small earthquakes instead of the the large one that would be building up on it's own?
Fraking itself doesn't cause the earthquake, but instead triggers one from the already existing pressures.
The media keeps mixing and confusing fracking with saltwater disposal wells. (remember how much they confuse hackers and crackers)
Fracking is a one time process for increasing porosity of a formation immediately around the well at the time of completion.
A saltwater disposal well is normally a well(oil or gas) that has played out and is used to return unwanted saltwater back where it came from.
Fracking only affects an area within a few hundred feet of the well.
Anyone have that graph handy?
I want to delete my account but Slashdot doesn't allow it.
It could be just the opposite. I can see an arguement being made that once the tension is released by the earthquakes caused by fracking, large earthquakes would actually be reduced as the geologic tension would be able to be released more easily. What if fracking was actually the solution to eliminating major earthquakes along fault lines like the San Andreas?
The real downside is that it could potentially result in more volcanic activity as the tectonic plates would move faster.
aren't weak faults the cracks which duct the cocktail into the water table?
They feared that it could be used to suppress protest or support unpopular rule.
that when dems stopped the drilling in the gulf due to a massive oil spill, that the dems were blamed for impeding progress and destroying America, but now that a republicans gets a few tremors in his state, he wants to stop it quickly? Likewise, here in Colorado, the cities that have republicans in control have put temp stops to fracking in THEIR areas, calling it prudent, yet want us to continue fracking all over, importing oils from places like Nigeria, Iran, Venezeula, etc. and absolutely are opposed to spending money on electric cars?
And ppl do not understand why I WANT us to continue drilling all over USA. I figure that once Americans start to get earthquakes, polluted waters esp. in our aquifiers, and see the repercussions of this 'clean' source of jobs, then MAYBE, JUST MAYBE, we will finally figure out that we need to change our policy. And I can not think of anything that would be better then to get the west off imported energy (other than to add that we quit importing bad goods and food from china).
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
"Common sense" in your case, apparently means "hysteria over things I don't understand, but still don't like."
There was a 12k foot well dug in the 60's at the Rocky Mountain Arsenal outside of Denver for the purposes of chemical waste disposal. They pumped down 150 million gallons of waste until the mid 60's. They stopped because over a thousand small earthquakes started occurring, including several that could be felt, up to 5.3.
I can understand not wanting carcinogens pumped into the water table, but the earthquake aspect seems like a non-issue to me as long as they're small. If small earthquakes are triggered, it means stresses in the fault lines were already present and are being relieved. Having a number of small earthquakes seems preferable to letting the stress build up until it triggers a large quake.
The article itself notes that earthquakes have occurred in that part of Ohio for nearly two centuries, and its size was well beyond the quite small theoretical maximum that could be induced by fracking. Extensive studies of fracking have shown no evidence of the contamination scare stories environmentalists have been pushing.
The people opposing fracking are the same people opposed to all uses of oil and as power sources.
Lawrence Person (lawrencepersonh@gmailh.com (remove all "h"s to mail)
http://www.lawrenceperson.com/
Alas.
FTFA:
Then on Saturday, a magnitude 4.0 earthquake struck that released at least 40 times more energy than any of the previous 10 or more tremors that had rattled the region in 2011.
So all we need to do is to learn how to turn earthquake energy into electric power. Pumping fracking juice into the earth to purposely cause earthquakes could solve all our energy problems.
We've been doing it wrong all along: we've been pumping stuff out for energy, instead of pumping it in.
It might kinda suck for folks who live along fault lines, but with energy, you always have a "not in my backyard" crowd to deal with.
Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
The earth is porous and cavernous, yet filled with fluid similar to a wet sponge. If you bust up the caverns and suck out the fluid, the ground is going to collapse. While yes, there may be some natural potential for the same event, nature simply seeks equilibrium, unlike man, so the potential energy should theoretically be lower - meaning lower probability of such, and less destruction if it would occur. The small earthquakes they are experiencing are simply minor warnings to a major catastrophe.
They have been fracking in Michigan for over 20 years and the only problems have been near home with poorly constructed wells. As for the contamination from drilling fluid, people need to realize that the same drilling fluid is used to drill your homes well. The material consists of pulverized dry clay, if it's a carcinogen then you shouldn't let your kids play in the sand box or with modeling clay. And yes I used to drill for a living at a geotechnical engineering company.
I'm sorry, I know there's loads of serious comments that are worthier than this, but my inner Battlestar Galactica makes an entirely different subject out of that title. That's a fracking close Ohio oil well!
Consider this post the steam vent for everyone else who needs to get it out of their system.
Because the priorities vary, and none of it is conveniently labelled.
Good luck defining the idiotic spending. Mostly it varies by the speaker, and that occurs on BOTH sides, which means it includes anything from health inspections to fighter jets, and who knows which is which?
Injection/disposal wells are not "Fracing" as it is currently being discussed in the news. Fracing is about purposly over pressuring a hydrocarbon bearing reservoir in order to stimulate it to produce at a higher rate and thus become more economically feasible. Injection/disposal well are just what they sound like, take some nasty substance that someone wants to dispose of and inject it into a water bearing (as opposed to hydrocarbon bearing) porous rock. Usually this is done deep to avoid shallow potentially potable ground water
The US government learned in the 1960's that injection/disposal wells near faults can cause them to rupture and release accumulated stress.
It might be pronounced differently(is it?) but everytime I read fracking I think of Battlestar and this subject it's funny;
Earthquakes That May be Realted To F*cking close Ohion Oil Well.
Love it :)
It would be revolutionary if you could trigger earthquakes. And if you can intentionally have smaller ones vs bigger ones even better. If it's true then we serious need Ohio to continue and seriously study the phenomenon. To where your fracking where there are no oil wells just to see if you can get results. This would save lives.
And it's a hard argument to say that pumping water at relatively low pressures and total energies (compared to what exists already) is actually causing earthquakes. That would be a thousand times more revolutionary. The energies involved in earthquakes are nuclear on an exponential scale.
Either way for the sake of humanity we need them to continue.
Ohio has oil wells? I thought only Texas and Oklahoma and the Gulf of Mexico have oil wells. I learned something new.
It's the brinewater disposal well that's considered to be on a previously unknown fault. It's been open less than a year and most of the quakes are in that time. The other (fracking wells) are closing because of the ignorant public blaming them for the quakes (with no damage and no casualties, so terrible.). They're closing to let an investigation continue because that's what you do when you have nothing to hide and you want to look good to the public. If they just moved the brine well or shut it down, these wouldn't happen and the drilling could keep on going.
I LOVE that the random public wants to tell everyone that they can't get paid on their mineral rights on their own land because they're afraid of something they don't understand ANYTHING about. If you don't understand something, you shouldn't be allowed to vote on it or complain about it, at someone elses financial expense.
This is the exact same as someone buying land to turn into a garbage dump, and people protesting it. Did you buy the land? Are you going to buy it off of them now that it's useless if they can't put a dump there? Is making a dump legal (yes)? can you prove that modern dumps are hazardous? (no) Then it sounds like you don't have a say.
This isn't a victory over corporations, etc. If you lived near this area, you'd know if it brought in 1000 jobs but leveled the city with earthquakes, YOU'D STILL BE UP PROFITS AFTER PAYING FOR DAMAGE.
For some reason, the residents would welcome back steel mill jobs that polluted the local waterways so bad that you can't swim in them or eat anything out of them. The river is totally desolate. But if jobs came with minor tremors, well shit, that's unacceptable. THERE'S NO FREE LUNCH, A RAPID INFLUX OF JOBS IS GOING TO HAVE A DOWNSIDE SOMEWHERE. If we find some unknown faults, well, move the wells that find them and keep working.
It depends on whether or not the natural gas bearing material is lower than the water table or not. Fracking involves injection of liquids (compounds that are not usually identified) below the water table with other layers of material that supposedly prevents "ducting" or diffusion of bad compounds into the water table. However a "leaking" tube used for injection can cause contamination of the water table.
The world is still here and it was *not* the first post.
If everything seems to be going fine at an injection well, the waste is flowing and there are no visible problems on the surface, how is it determined if the pipe through which the waste water is being pumped did or didn't leak before the waste got to the desired depth?
Republican Politicians in Ohio are wondering where fossil fuels come from in the first place as the 6000 years since the flood clearly hasn't been long enough for them to form from natural processes.
It doesn't seem like a bit of water injected into the ground would cause seismic instability. I'm not an expert it just seems to be about as likely to change the nature of the ground as pissing into a hurricane is to change the direction of the storm.
Again... I make no claim to special knowledge. It just doesn't seem to anywhere near strong enough to have that effect. Some very localized shaking perhaps but nothing wide spread...
Has anyone done the math on this or have some sort of geological background? It just seems really unlikely.
I've decided to stop wasting my time responding to AC trolls/sockpuppets... so if you want a response from me... login.
To those saying that earthquakes here are common, I live in Youngstown, and we have never had a locally originated seismic event. But as of March, we've had 11 quakes with epicenters near the well that has been shut down.
Here we go again. ANYTHING to stop the USA from becoming more energy independent. This one will rank up there with save the whales, man made global warming, banning incandescent light bulbs etc. Now we'll have the dopes in congress along with Hussein Obama banning this technology, which will stop the job boom in the Dakota's (red state).
Could you let me know how I could become a paid shill to post on Slashdot? I hope it would be quite lucrative.
Except for ending slavery, the Nazis, communism, & securing American independence, war has never solved anything.
My lady and I were fraking like mad on a layover in Ohio... sorry about that..
And here I was kidding when I asked her if the earth moved..
I've got caviar stuck in my braces!
I really don't understand why someone like yourself - a person who lives in splendor undreamt of by most humans who ever lived - is unwilling to contribute to your community's well-being when that community is clearly in need.
Now, if you said "I don't think I should pay more taxes than people with ten times my wealth" I'd totally agree with you. But that's not what you said.
If you said "I don't want to pay for invading other countries and subsidizing rich bankster's lifestyles" I could understand that too. But you didn't say that either.
As I see it, you're wealthy enough to own stock, but you don't want to pay for the system that makes your wealth possible. Somebody's got to pay for it, but you want it to be someone else. You have enormous wealth and enjoy many privileges, yet you honestly think you're being oppressed. You personify our economic problem; you're barely one step above a welfare queen.
The pressure it takes to pump into the well should tell you how far down you're pumping. Additionally, the pipe is pressure tested prior to shooting holes at the desired depths. Really, that's not the difficult parts. The problem you're thinking of would more likely occur via water channeling back up the outside of the pipe due to improper cement placement. That one's a bit more difficult to prove. The easiest way would be radioactive tracers, although I don't see that flying with the environmental crowd. You might be able to use a temperature log, but it would be hard to distinguish between different causes.
If you are "only" in the 28% tax bracket, you still need to add 7.65% for social security and medicare, and ANOTHER 7.65* for the same, if you are self employed. Then, if you live in a state that has an income tax (and most do) add that - here in California it is another 9.6%... that is 52.9% on the last dollar I earn...
Now, to go spend it, I get to pay another 9% in sales tax.
* and if you are an employee, that 7.65% is coming out of your pocket too, you just don't see it.
You typically do either static pressure testing and / or one of several other methods to look at cement integrity. There is a whole industry around this. You can read one of the many articles on the Macando blowout to see how not to do it.
Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
We also know that fracking poisons the water by dumping 254 chemicals into the ground that find their way to the water table.
Wow... That's a lot of chemicals. Can you name them all? :D
All the world's a CPU, and all the men and women merely AI agents
~ We've got gas explosions erupting from Sandusky all the way to Portsmouth!
~ We're talking about tectonic plates being pushed up higher than the Himalayas in a matter of minutes!
~ Looks like Ohio really will be high in the middle...
MegaFrack! 10.5 Starring Lucy Lawless, Erik Estrada, and Stacy Keatch. Only on SyFy!
.
Prisencolinensinainciusol. Ol Rait!
I'm quite aware of how to do a cement pressure test. If you'll note, I even said they pressure test. However, that pressure test will only tell you if the shoe holds. It won't tell you whether or not you have a microannulus behind the casing that you could hook up with after perforating.
Although I have no excuse for why I totally forgot about the existence of RCBL/VDL logs.
...and we've had 11 earthquakes of 2.0 magnitude or greater since March 17, 2011. Normally, we're lucky to get one earthquake a year.
Local news source
HOW FRACKING CLOSE IS IT?
This well is two miles from my house, so needless to say, the earthquakes have been a big story locally (see www.vindy.com for the most recent one).
However, the well in question is not a "fracking" well (horizontal or vertical), but a "brine injection well", used to dispose of the chemical/water mix used in fracking at other sites. Related, but not the same. It's also been noted that most of the thousands of gallons disposed of daily are from outside of Ohio.
Fracking has already been linked as the most likely cause of earthquakes in and around the seaside town of Blackpool. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lancashire-15550458.
You can sign up here. No guarantees you will always be schilling Slashdot, and the pay isn't really that great. Also, you'll apparently spend more of your time schilling if you sign up on this one. The barrier to entry is high for a non-Chinese native, though.
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
a load of frack
Have you ever been in a magnitude 4 earthquake?
Unless you are right on top of the epicenter it is nothing.
Even then it is not damaging. Just annoying.
Try to calm yourself a bit. I am not really being a dick I am just saying that magnitude 4 earthquakes are no big deal.
People who have not been in earthquakes may not know this but Californians do.
.... a catastrophe as punishment.
Losing an aquifer to fracking would be a dandy.
"This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
If you eat at an expensive restaraunt, you can't complain you shouldn't have to pay for dessert because you already paid $100 for the entree and drinks, and you "thought you paid enough thank you very much".
Clearly, the government does not have enough money to pay its bills. Clearly, borrowing at the rate we have been is at best a stopgap solution. Somewhat less clearly, but still pretty obvious, the gap is too big to close by reducing spending; the deep cuts required would cut into the government's ability to pay for things almost everyone agrees are required.
The obvious conclusion is that taxes are not too high. They're too low.
This does not necessarily mean your taxes specifically are too low. But given the size of this pit, asking only some of us to fill it in doesn't seem right. Taxes need to be raised, and before you ask - yes, I am calling for my own taxes to be raised.
Funny, when I read "fracking poisons the water by dumping 254 chemicals into the ground", my first thought (being a computer geek) was that they were obviously using some very old computer equipment, or for some unstated reason were storing the number as an 8-bit signed integer (char for us C programmers). This would explain the number, since when they attempted to add one more to the list, the software reported that -1 chemicals were in the list. This couldn't be right, so they stopped the testing with the last one that the software could handle properly. Then someone else came along and reported that 254 as the total number.
Then, of course, I decided that this was just me being overly silly. But now I'm not so sure. When you see overly-precise looking numbers, and they're "magic" numbers in their binary representation, there's a really good chance that they did come about due to some specific software hiccup that's an artifact of the binary representation.
Anyone know where that 254 actually came from? It is actually the right number, in any sense of "right"? It's just too suspicious to be accepted as real in a computer-geek environment.
Those who do study history are doomed to stand helplessly by while everyone else repeats it.
Actually it is up to 750 different chemicals rather than list them all read the report http://democrats.energycommerce.house.gov/sites/default/files/documents/Hydraulic%20Fracturing%20Report%204.18.11.pdf.
Of course the biggest problem with fracking and earthquakes is, you are creating new fractures and obviously new avenues for the under pressure fracking liquids and the targeted fossil fuel gasses to mix with the ground water as well as leaking to atmosphere.
Keep in mind those escaping fracking fluids will also pick up any other contaminant material as they migrate to the aquifers people are targeting for fresh water sources. It is easy to see now why Darth Cheney gave the fracking industry a blanket poison everyone you wish escape clause, the sick bastard.
Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
Meh. I don't know where he got the 254 number from, but I did find this through Wikipedia, which has a very long list of chemicals used in fracking:
http://democrats.energycommerce.house.gov/sites/default/files/documents/Hydraulic%20Fracturing%20Report%204.18.11.pdf
For context:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydraulic_fracturing#Chemicals_used_in_fracturing
Water is by far the largest component of fracking fluids. The initial drilling operation itself may consume from 65,000 gallons to 600,000 gallons of fracking fluids. Over its lifetime an average well will require up to an additional 5 million gallons of water for the initial fracking operation and possible restimulation frac jobs.[42]
Chemical additives used in fracturing fluids typically make up less than 2% by weight of the total fluid. Over the life of a typical well, this may amount to 100,000 gallons of chemical additives. They are biocides, surfactants, adjusting viscosity, and emulsifiers. Many are used in household products such as cosmetics, lotions, soaps, detergents, furniture polishes, floor waxes, and paints.[43] Some are also used in food products. A list of the chemicals that have been used was published in a U.S. House of Representatives Report.[21] Some of the chemicals pose no known health hazards, some others are known carcinogens, some are toxic, some are neurotoxins. For example: benzene (causes cancer, bone marrow failure), lead (damages the nervous system and causes brain disorders), ethylene glycol (antifreeze, causes death), methanol (highly toxic), boric acid (kidney damage, death), 2-butoxyethanol (causes hemolysis).
The 2011 US House of Representatives investigative report on the chemicals used in hydraulic fracturing shows that of the 750 compounds in hydraulic fracturing products “[m]ore than 650 of these products contained chemicals that are known or possible human carcinogens, regulated under the Safe Drinking Water Act, or listed as hazardous air pollutants” (12). The report also shows that between 2005 and 2009 279 products (93.6 million gallons-not including water) had at least one component listed as “proprietary” or “trade secret” on their Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) required Material Safety Data Sheet (MSDS).
The MSDS is a list of chemical components in the products of chemical manufacturers, and according to OSHA, a manufacturer may withhold information designated as “proprietary” from this sheet. When asked to reveal the proprietary components, most companies participating in the investigation were unable to do so, leading the committee to surmise these “companies are injecting fluids containing unknown chemicals about which they may have limited understanding of the potential risks posed to human health and the environment” (12).[44] Third-party laboratories are performing analysis on soil, air, and water near the fracturing sites to measure the level of contamination by each of the chemicals. Each state has a contact person in charge of such regulation. [45] A map of these contact people can be found at FracFocus.org as well.[46]
Another study in 2011, titled “Natural Gas Operations from a Public Health Perspective” and published in Human and Ecological Risk Assessment: An International Journal identified 632 chemicals used in natural gas operations. Only 353 of these are well-described in the scientific literature; and of these, more than 75% could affect skin, eyes, respiratory and gastrointestinal systems; roughly 40-50% could affect the brain and nervous, immune and cardiovascular systems and the kidneys; 37% could affect the endocrine system; and 25% were carcinogens and mutagens. The study indicated possible long-term health effects that might not appear immediately. The study recommended full disclosure of all products used, along with extensive air and water monitoring near natural gas operations; it also recommended that fracking's exemption from regulation under the US Safe Drinking Water Act be rescinded.[47]
You're talking about ONE economic theory out there, which is highly dubious in nature and VERY risky to implement, in case it turns out to be wrong.
Absolutely, our nation has a problem because we're spending money we can't afford to spend on things like war. But the idea that we need more and larger stimulus efforts to "kick-start" the economy back into action? I don't really believe it. The big problem with the concept is that we've got to borrow from other nations to even have the money to give out in a stimulus. That means not only does the (hopefully) recovering economy have to do well enough to pay all of that money back, but they've got to do it PLUS interest, AND in an environment where there's tougher competition with other nations of the world who upgraded their infrastructure and manufacturing capabilities with all of that money they borrowed from the U.S.
Besides, the stimulus spending winds up "playing favorites" with people who have enough political clout to ensure their pet business interests receive the lion's share of the money.
The alternate suggestion of promoting new, small business startups sounds like a much better long-term solution to me. Instead of people finding themselves unemployed for long stretches of time, collecting govt. assistance as they search and often settle for "under-employment"? They could be encouraged to start their own new businesses, which should lead to eventual generation of more job openings that would be the type suitable to be filled by others like themselves (who perhaps started their own small businesses too, but weren't real successful with them, or found it wasn't their thing after they gave it an honest try).
Rounds of stimulus payouts will make more people happy in the short-term, but is likely to be a plan that implodes in the long haul.
We also know that fracking poisons the water by dumping 254 chemicals into the ground that find their way to the water table.
Fracking is done 5000+ feet underground. Water wells are, maybe, 500 feet deep. Do the math.
As for your "254 chemicals": http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/08/22/national/main20095719.shtml "Can you drink fracking fluid? One gas exec did"
No, can you?
“Constituents of fracking fluids are often considered ‘trade secrets’ and not revealed. Even regulators are left in the dark,” she says.
...
The ones we were able to identify concerned us because of their significant potential to cause damage to the environment and human health. Some were linked with cancer and birth defects, while others damaged the hormone system...
See here for a US scenario:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/45658085/ns/us_news-environment/t/colorado-requires-disclosure-fracking-chemicals/#.TwKaVtSyYgw
Yes, everywhere that they are fracking, there are more earthquakes than normal. See http://www.geology.ar.gov/geohazards/earthquakes.htm
Let's say that we inject 'wastewater' up your ass as a disposal method. Would you say that:
A) Giant watery assfarts eminating from your rectum are not related to the wastewater disposal method.
B) Severe body tremors and an extended abdoman are not related to the wastewater disposal method.
C) The giant shiteating grin on your face as a result of A & B above is not related to the wastewater disposal method.
Never said I could. It was a joke, cupcake, calm down.
All the world's a CPU, and all the men and women merely AI agents
Let's see a comparison of the People's trust of our "Elected" Leaders versus our self-appointed Federal Reserve Board.
They feared that it could be used to suppress protest or support unpopular rule.
"We don't know what the secret ingredient is, but since we got into the Fracking business we don't seem to be paying as much to dispose of our Hazardous Waste."
They feared that it could be used to suppress protest or support unpopular rule.
"A Halliburton spokeswoman didn't respond to a question asking how that executive is doing now, or who he is"
and it is _but one_ composition of the dozen fluids that are used for fraking
and, as even the halliburton page put it:
"the CleanStim fluid system should not be considered edible."
( http://www.halliburton.com/ps/default.aspx?pageid=4184&navid=93&AdType=JPTCSTC )
How I read it: earthquakes may be cause by an Ohio oil well that needed to be further the frack away from... something?
I just figured one bit of unfalsifiable twaddle deserved an equal and opposite bit of unfalsifiable twaddle.
Well stated. Sir Fig Newton's Third Law of Promotion.
"What in the name of Fats Waller is that?"
"A four-foot prune."
http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2603836&cid=38588550
Wait... so you do support stimulus? (Promoting small business start-ups is stimulus.) The parent never said the stimulus should be a cash payout.