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Predicting Life 100 Years From Now

New submitter Simon321 writes "BBC News has an interesting article about the top predictions for life 100 years from now. The highlights include extensive farming of the ocean, wiring all sorts of computers to our brains, space elevators, and the break-up of the United States. 'There are some indications already that California wants to split off and such pressures tend to build over time. It is hard to see this waiting until the end of the century. Maybe an East Coast cluster will want to break off too. Pressures come from the enormous differences in wealth generation capability, and people not wanting to fund others if they can avoid it.'"

552 comments

  1. Oh, the Horseshit You Will Print! by eldavojohn · · Score: 2, Informative

    'There are some indications already that California wants to split off and such pressures tend to build over time. It is hard to see this waiting until the end of the century. Maybe an East Coast cluster will want to break off too. Pressures come from the enormous differences in wealth generation capability, and people not wanting to fund others if they can avoid it.'

    And who is making such outrageous claims? A geologist? Perhaps a seismologist? Perhaps even just some sort of basic scientist?

    From the beginning of the article:

    Here is what futurologists Ian Pearson (IP) and Patrick Tucker (PT) think of your ideas.

    "Futurologist?" What does it take to call oneself a 'futurologist?'

    Well, from Ian Pearson's page I'd guess he's got some communication technology background? Or perhaps an author? From his list of achievements:

    Ian Pearson has been a full time futurologist since 1991, with a proven track record of around 85% accuracy at the 10 year horizon.

    So you could estimate he has a (0.85)^10 or ~19.7% accuracy at the 100 year horizon? Do you get to pick which issues you have to weigh in on? How accurate do you have to be? Are these just yes or no? Multiple choice?

    And Patrick Tucker looks to be little more than an author and interviewer. Sorry for the character assassination or ad hominem attacks but these guys are sci-fi authors, essentially. Reprinting their claims of North America breaking apart in anyway within 100 years is less than prudent.

    --
    My work here is dung.
    1. Re:Oh, the Horseshit You Will Print! by russotto · · Score: 5, Informative

      ROTFL. They're talking about California breaking off politically, not physically.

      Their predictions are still so much bunk, and calling them sci-fi authors smears the good name of actual sci-fi authors.

    2. Re:Oh, the Horseshit You Will Print! by Synerg1y · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Futurologists don't need a background in science, only an audience.

    3. Re:Oh, the Horseshit You Will Print! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The South/Tea Party will break off well before Cali.

      Eastern California (conservative) is very different from Western California (liberal) as well.

      I think certain states should form providences and have more control, but I have no clue how that would happen smoothly.

    4. Re:Oh, the Horseshit You Will Print! by plover · · Score: 5, Funny

      The difference between a "futurologist" and a "psychic friend" is apparently $1.99 per minute, and you must be over 18 to call.

      --
      John
    5. Re:Oh, the Horseshit You Will Print! by Synerg1y · · Score: 1

      The latter would be much more hilarious :)

    6. Re:Oh, the Horseshit You Will Print! by Baloroth · · Score: 1

      I'd be a little more generous. More like a 50% accuracy at the 100 year horizon: same as flipping a coin. All the questions are basically "will this happen or not." That far out, it really is just random chance whether they are right or wrong.

      --
      "None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license." --John Milton
    7. Re:Oh, the Horseshit You Will Print! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Too bad it would require so many people to move... But I'd prefer to see:

      From approx Nevada west - a place for folks who are either atheist or agnostic and don't allow religion to factor into any of their opinions. East of Nevada - a place for theists who want things like pro-life, religion in schools, etc.

      Split north / south - one region for people who strongly believe in low taxes, small government, etc - and other tea party type things. The other region for people who believe in full funding for schools, roads, etc., and that rich people aren't magic "job creators", etc.

    8. Re:Oh, the Horseshit You Will Print! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Bah, he's just ripping of FASA now, Shadowrun had half this stuff on paper in 1989.

    9. Re:Oh, the Horseshit You Will Print! by plover · · Score: 2

      If a civil war erupted once before over Southern Secession, I doubt we'll see a repeat over California. Such a breakup would have to be mutual, and California simply has too many natural resources (oil, coasts, winter growing seasons, movie stars) for the rest of the union to want to give them up. No matter how weird they are.

      Wait a minute. This isn't a "future prediction", it's the setting of Snow Crash. I knew it seemed familiar.

      What's next out of these "futurists"? Rat-things? Cosa Nostra Pizza? Cops who take bribes on Visa cards?

      --
      John
    10. Re:Oh, the Horseshit You Will Print! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Troll

      The South/Tea Party will break off well before Cali.

      They tried that once. I say they do it again, squash them like a bug.

      Eastern California (conservative) is very different from Western California (liberal) as well.

      I think certain states should form providences and have more control, but I have no clue how that would happen smoothly.

      Like DisneyWorld, a sovereign state in the domain of Florida.

    11. Re:Oh, the Horseshit You Will Print! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I agree. If anyone would break away from the US, it would be the southern states. California may be the capital of American liberalism, but they're getting along just fine as is. Still, the idea of anyone breaking away right now is ludicrous. The people who express such opinions are all toothless morons that nobody listens too anyway.

    12. Re:Oh, the Horseshit You Will Print! by cod3r_ · · Score: 0

      The band TOOL.. duh..

    13. Re:Oh, the Horseshit You Will Print! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I'd be a little more generous. More like a 50% accuracy at the 100 year horizon: same as flipping a coin. All the questions are basically "will this happen or not." That far out, it really is just random chance whether they are right or wrong.

      No it isn't. If there was a 50% chance of any prediction being true then it would be as likely that the earth would be invaded by a race of sentient frying pans from Pluto or that Atlantis has risen from the Oceans and declared war on the Isle of Man as it would be that the landmass of Antarctica still exists. Clearly some predictions are far more than 50% likely to come true and some far less.

    14. Re:Oh, the Horseshit You Will Print! by Nadaka · · Score: 0, Troll

      I don't want the tea party / south to break off. They have fucktarded economic and social principals and will quickly devolve into an violent anarchic slave state that will put Mogadishu to shame. And I don't want to move away from the gulf coast to stay American.

    15. Re:Oh, the Horseshit You Will Print! by vlm · · Score: 1

      I don't want the tea party / south to break off. They have fucktarded economic and social principals and will quickly devolve into an violent anarchic slave state that will put Mogadishu to shame. And I don't want to move away from the gulf coast to stay American.

      Most likely, considering the long story of fundamentalist thought, they'll consider themselves to be the true "Americans" and the yankees to have broken off from them. And the yankees will probably think the same way about the south.

      Maybe what I'm trying to say is it'll probably turn out a heck of a lot more like "North and South Korea" than "China and Taiwan"

      --
      "Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
    16. Re:Oh, the Horseshit You Will Print! by strength_of_10_men · · Score: 1

      I think certain states should form providences and have more control, but I have no clue how that would happen smoothly.

      Don't worry - God's got that covered.

    17. Re:Oh, the Horseshit You Will Print! by Muad'Dave · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I think certain states should form providences and have more control, but I have no clue how that would happen smoothly.

      We had that before - before, as you say, "They tried that once." It's called State's Rights, and the loss of the war of northern aggression assured a strong federal government and the loss of state's individuality.

      --
      Tiller's Rule: Never use a word in written form that you've only heard and never read. You will end up looking foolish.
    18. Re:Oh, the Horseshit You Will Print! by h4rr4r · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You spelled "War of Southern Treason" wrong.

      The South started the war, so I fail to see how it could be Northern aggression.

    19. Re:Oh, the Horseshit You Will Print! by polar+red · · Score: 4, Insightful

      low taxes, small government, etc - and other tea party type things

      don't fool yourself, they also want to meddle.

      --
      Yes, I'm left. You have a problem with that?
    20. Re:Oh, the Horseshit You Will Print! by LWATCDR · · Score: 1

      yea it has a very Eurocentric feel too it. Since the British empire broke up and still is. The US must break up as well.
      The rest of it was so much ehhh.

      --
      See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
    21. Re:Oh, the Horseshit You Will Print! by hedwards · · Score: 1

      I noticed his predictions were pretty ridiculous. Probably the most obvious one was his 10/10 for fusion in a hundred years. Given the rate of progress, or lack thereof, I don't see it as being certain. Given that it hasn't yet been established as possible, and that it's been 50 years away for at least 50 years, I think it's rather optimistic to consider it a certainty.

      I personally believe that we'll eventually get fusion worked out, but right now I don't see any way in which it can be considered certain. Especially with the backlash against fission lately.

    22. Re:Oh, the Horseshit You Will Print! by hedwards · · Score: 1

      And perhaps this time we'll have the good sense to let them leave. Seriously, what has the South done for us in the last hundred years that was worth fighting and winning a civil war over?

    23. Re:Oh, the Horseshit You Will Print! by hedwards · · Score: 1

      Yes, but when we subsequently invade them and bring Democracy we'll be greeted as liberators.

    24. Re:Oh, the Horseshit You Will Print! by hedwards · · Score: 2

      Visa? That's dumb, obviously it's going to be Bitcoins.

    25. Re:Oh, the Horseshit You Will Print! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The people who express such opinions are all toothless morons that nobody listens too anyway.

      An awful lot of people listened to Rick Perry.

    26. Re:Oh, the Horseshit You Will Print! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Politics change constantly, they revolve around powerful individuals or groups of individuals most likely, not around geographical regions or ideologies. It's impossible to predict how borders will look a year from now, ten years, let alone one hundred.

      If you're going to make predictions about the future, IN WRITING, then take some lessons from Nostradamus, you can interpret his writings in a lot of ways, any time any where and prove them real, or false.

    27. Re:Oh, the Horseshit You Will Print! by Tsingi · · Score: 5, Funny

      "Futurologist?" What does it take to call oneself a 'futurologist?'

      I am a futurologist

      I wasn't sure until I tried it, but it's pretty easy.

    28. Re:Oh, the Horseshit You Will Print! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Mod parent up. The Republican party is disintegrating because while they point their fingers at each other screaming "RINO! RINO!" the fact is that just about everyone but Ron Paul is Conservative In Name Only. Oh, they'll tell you how they'll cut the Energy department and the Education department, and they'll make a lot of noise about unions (except the police unions, they vote Republican) and they'll make a lot of noise about cutting spending (except for in their state, and even Ron's a perpetrator of this, excusing it by claiming that principles be damned, when everyone else is sidling up to the trough he's doing Texas a disfavor by not pigging out with the rest of the hogs) and smaller government (except for the parts that prop up their campaign donors and inspect citizens' bedrooms, monitor everything they smoke, read their email, fondle their kids, xray them when they fly, ride a train, drive a car, and so on).

      Actions speak louder than words. The Republican party is doomed, and it's entirely the "moderates" fault, only the people screaming about moderates have been shown to be some of the worst of the lot despite their words.

    29. Re:Oh, the Horseshit You Will Print! by geminidomino · · Score: 1

      Well, in all fairness, so is USGov...

    30. Re:Oh, the Horseshit You Will Print! by Azuaron · · Score: 2

      Unless my high school history has failed me (again), the southern states seceded, and the northern states used military force to bring them back. That is, the southern states committed treason (War of Southern Treason) and the northern states aggressively brought them back into the Union (War of Northern Aggression). Of course, the "Northern Aggression" bit all depends on how you interpret the Fort Sumter situation.

      --
      I'm a psychologist (amongst other things).
    31. Re:Oh, the Horseshit You Will Print! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      I will be a futurologist. See, it's working already!

    32. Re:Oh, the Horseshit You Will Print! by BasilBrush · · Score: 3, Insightful

      but they're getting along just fine as is. Still, the idea of anyone breaking away right now is ludicrous.

      They aren't suggesting right now. They're suggesting sometime in the next 100 years. That's a log time. The last US civil was only a bit more than a hundred years ago. The USSR only lasted 69 years.

      The key is that "getting along just fine as is" bit. Those days are numbered. China is taking over as world superpower. That's going to have interesting effects on the USA.

    33. Re:Oh, the Horseshit You Will Print! by Nadaka · · Score: 2

      I am a southerner myself. Do I feel bad about mocking the fucking Tea Party traitors who want to destroy my state and my country? Fuck no, I am an American Patriot. How is that stupid?

    34. Re:Oh, the Horseshit You Will Print! by BasilBrush · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Not just the British Empire. The Roman Empire, the Ottoman Empire, The Russian Empire, The French Empire, The Spanish Empire, the USSR.

      Empires rise, and then they fall again. The USA is on the same path as all the empire before it. Only the timing varies.

    35. Re:Oh, the Horseshit You Will Print! by Unoriginal_Nickname · · Score: 2

      I guess they should have thought about that before selling States' Rights part and parcel with slavery.

    36. Re:Oh, the Horseshit You Will Print! by Quiet_Desperation · · Score: 2

      I'm in the great (*cough*) state of California, and in 20 years I've not heard any talk of secession.

      Cripes, that would make it a country with the ability to print its own money, right? We'd have a debt of $800 trillion in the first year as they built every government crony and connected douchebag a palace to official fung shui standards.

    37. Re:Oh, the Horseshit You Will Print! by amRadioHed · · Score: 1

      Actually TOOL got the idea for Aenema from a Bill Hicks routine about Arizona Bay.

      --
      We hope your rules and wisdom choke you / Now we are one in everlasting peace
    38. Re:Oh, the Horseshit You Will Print! by Quiet_Desperation · · Score: 2

      If anyone would break away from the US, it would be the southern states.

      I'm *pretty* sure they tried that once before.

      California may be the capital of American liberalism, but they're getting along just fine as is.

      Oh, sorry, I didn't realize you were posting from an alternate universe.

    39. Re:Oh, the Horseshit You Will Print! by kilodelta · · Score: 1

      I've always maintained that California and the entire northeastern U.S. would break away in the near term future. Politically we are all VERY different from middle America. I think a lot of it has to do with the settlement of the U.S. The coastal areas pretty much settled first.

    40. Re:Oh, the Horseshit You Will Print! by Quiet_Desperation · · Score: 4, Funny

      China is taking over as world superpower.

      Am I the only one who welcomes that? Awesome, I say! Everyone and his grandma can blame all their miseries on China for the next century.

    41. Re:Oh, the Horseshit You Will Print! by Marxist+Hacker+42 · · Score: 2

      I'm surprised nobody challenged the 10 billion prediction- since current demographic trends say we'll be unlikely to finish the century with more than 4 billion human beings (Huge dyeoffs of humans are currently scheduled for the 2040-2060 range, as 2/3rds of humanity right now is over the age of 55, and while the third world has helped us keep up, huge numbers of people under the age of 30 simply are no longer breeding).

      --
      SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
    42. Re:Oh, the Horseshit You Will Print! by Unoriginal_Nickname · · Score: 2

      The "War of Southern Absolute Disadvantage."

      But that's what happens when you base your whole economy on slavery and blame other people because you can't compete with free market mass industrialization.

    43. Re:Oh, the Horseshit You Will Print! by ubrgeek · · Score: 4, Funny

      > they'll tell you how they'll cut the Energy department and the Education department,

      And that third one. Whatever it was. Damn. I never remember which one I mean.

      --
      Bark less. Wag more.
    44. Re:Oh, the Horseshit You Will Print! by Quiet_Desperation · · Score: 1

      Your prediction of what would happen is hysterical, over the top silliness. It sounds no better than the "oh noes, Obamasocialism will destroy our precious bodily fluids" of the TEA Party extremists. Just sayin' since you asked and all.

    45. Re:Oh, the Horseshit You Will Print! by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 4, Funny

      China is not exactly a "backwater". They even have Starbucks there now.

      --
      Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
    46. Re:Oh, the Horseshit You Will Print! by Quiet_Desperation · · Score: 1

      No matter how weird they are.

      And proud of it, dammit.

    47. Re:Oh, the Horseshit You Will Print! by Nadaka · · Score: 1

      The difference is that the Tea Party literally made terroristic threats to shut down the government and cause irrecoverable economic damage to my country.

    48. Re:Oh, the Horseshit You Will Print! by Abreu · · Score: 1

      If you want to have fun with it, hostilities between abolitionists and slavers began in Texas, where the texian settlers seceded from Mexico because Mexico outlawed slavery.

      The settlers had no intentions of remaining independent, and joined the US on 1845 and the Confederacy on 1861.

      So it all started with a War of Northern Treason

      --
      No sig for the moment.
    49. Re:Oh, the Horseshit You Will Print! by Jappus · · Score: 0

      The most beautiful thing in Tokyo is McDonald's. The most beautiful thing in Stockholm is McDonald's. The most beautiful thing in Florence is McDonald's. Peking and Moscow don't have anything beautiful yet.
      [Andy Warhol]

      How truly great it is, to be living in a brave new world of unabashed consumerism!

    50. Re:Oh, the Horseshit You Will Print! by IANAAC · · Score: 1

      And that third one. Whatever it was. Damn. I never remember which one I mean.

      Eweps.

    51. Re:Oh, the Horseshit You Will Print! by Jhon · · Score: 2

      "Unless my high school history has failed me (again), the southern states seceded, and the northern states used military force to bring them back."

      That's about as accurate as a single sentence can be to describe the Civil War... It's a lot more nuanced (as you indicate with your "Fort Sumter" comment).

      o South secedes and forms own Government
      o North doesn't recognize secession -- seeks a political solution.
      o South wants Federal forts
      o North refuses.
      o South blockades forts with force
      o North continues to attempt to supply forts
      o South attacks forts and takes by force.

      The war has begun...

    52. Re:Oh, the Horseshit You Will Print! by Gorobei · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I wish I had mod points. I lived in the south and was saddened by what I was seeing:

      Many of the smart and ambitious leave. The culture, though, remains in place: an ever more pointless divide between the rich and poor (or lucky and unlucky.) Low taxes mean low social services for the poor and insular privately provided schools and social services for the rich, and pretty soon you have an out-of-touch and uneducated rich class and an out-of-touch and uneducated poor class.

      If you don't get out of the south at age 21, you are screwed.

    53. Re:Oh, the Horseshit You Will Print! by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      Why would the Tea Party break off? They love corporate corruption of government, so the current state of affairs suits them just fine.

    54. Re:Oh, the Horseshit You Will Print! by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      Actions speak louder than words. The Republican party is doomed,

      I disagree with this because the Democrat party doesn't look any better, after promising hope and change and then doing everything exactly like Bush, or worse.

      I think a better prediction is that the USA is doomed. Either that, or if we're really lucky, we'll see some giant changes in the political landscape before the whole house of cards collapses, such as better election systems, more parties, etc. I'm not holding my breath though.

    55. Re:Oh, the Horseshit You Will Print! by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      The idea that what happened 150 years ago "seals the coffin" on things today is rather ridiculous. It's a lot like claiming the Napoleonic Wars set all the national boundaries for Europe in stone for ever after, and that European borders would never change again after that.

    56. Re:Oh, the Horseshit You Will Print! by fishthegeek · · Score: 5, Informative

      The key is that "getting along just fine as is" bit. Those days are numbered. China is taking over as world superpower. That's going to have interesting effects on the USA.

      Can we PLEASE stop with the China thing? They own less than 9% of U.S. debt. They do not have any meaningful middle class. They offer nothing in the way influence on the world stage beyond that which they have with a few questionable regimes. China will be a power. Maybe a super power, but they're a long, very long way away from parity with Europe much less United States.

      --
      load "$",8,1
    57. Re:Oh, the Horseshit You Will Print! by Splab · · Score: 1

      Historically speaking, republics never lasted much more than 3-400 years, so predicting the US will break up within the next 100 years is probably not unrealistic.

      Personally I think we are going to see Technological Singularity with AI at some point and probably wipe some 90% of the population in the wake of such an event.

    58. Re:Oh, the Horseshit You Will Print! by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      I don't want to have to continue spending time on Slashdot pointing out how I think the world should be; I want everyone on Earth to listen to me and follow all my suggestions without question, since I know better than anyone else how the world should be run. I also want a pony. This doesn't mean I'm going to get any of this stuff.

      If you don't like the place you're living in, and the people you're living around, then it's time for you to move. It's much easier to move before things get really ugly, rather than try to escape afterwards. Right now, there's nothing stopping you from selling your house (or if you rent, even better since you just don't bother to renew the lease), getting a job somewhere else in the country, packing all your shit in a container, and moving. If things get really ugly and the south breaks away, the borders will probably be closed, selling real estate will become impossible, and you'll be stuck.

      As a bonus, if you move, you won't have to worry about getting hit by the next hurricane, which will surely come as ocean temperatures are rising, causing more numerous and severe hurricanes.

    59. Re:Oh, the Horseshit You Will Print! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'll have you know Beijing has McDonald's, plenty of them in fact... Did you know McDonald's in Shanghai deliver? If that is not true beauty, I don't know what is. :)

    60. Re:Oh, the Horseshit You Will Print! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "And who is making such outrageous claims? A geologist? Perhaps a seismologist? Perhaps even just some sort of basic scientist?"

      Obviously not, because any decent geologist will tell you that it is only California west of the San Andreas fault system that will "break off" the United States, roughly along a winding line from San Francisco to the Imperial Valley and including the Baja Peninsula, and eventually become an island off the coast of Oregon. That's assuming that current tectonic trends are maintained, and assuming that you've got on the order of 50 million years or so to wait around and watch it happen, rather than only a century.

      Alternatively, you have misread the article and this has nothing to do with geology, but its pretty nonsensical either way.

    61. Re:Oh, the Horseshit You Will Print! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So-called because there was no legal basis for keeping a state within the union that did not want to be there. The southern states moved to secede, and the federal government (feel free to read that as "the north") used force to prevent it.

      "The War of Southern Secession" and "the War between the States" are undoubtedly accurate names. "the War of Northern Aggression" is a provocative, but not unfair name. "The Civil War" is easy to say, but not very accurate. Civil wars are fought between rival groups trying to claim dominance over their country. The American Civil War was about one group trying to declare independence, and another determined to reclaim them.

      And the "War of Southern Treason" is actually one I've never heard before.

    62. Re:Oh, the Horseshit You Will Print! by nedlohs · · Score: 1

      Yeah because geologists and seismoologists know so much about the politics of secession.

      And of course you get to pick tthe areas you weigh in on. Though given your choice of experts to consult that won't help you much.

    63. Re:Oh, the Horseshit You Will Print! by Grishnakh · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I'd personally like to see northern California (I'm not so sure about the southern part; that seems to be the source of most of their budget problems) break off, and join with Oregon and Washington and become a new country. Between Silicon Valley, Portland, and Seattle, the economy in that region is huge, leading the world even. California itself already has the 6th-largest (I think, maybe it's 8th) economy in the whole world, all by itself. Again, I'm not sure how much of that is from the south vs. the north, but I theorize that the north might have the majority because of Silicon Valley. OR and WA also have tons of tech companies. Together, they'd be a great economic power if they could just keep the SanFran liberals under control so they don't ruin the budget. (I'm not arguing for extremist Tea Party principles here, just some moderation; you can't keep your government afloat when you're spending more money than you take in in tax revenue on free services for everyone.)

      It'd be even better if they could get British Columbia break away from Canada and join them, as Vancouver is also very strong in tech, and is also an important shipping port for access to the rest of Canada. The local cultures between Vancouver and WA/OR seem to be fairly similar too. Surely the Vancouverites have more in common with Seattle residents than with Quebec residents.

    64. Re:Oh, the Horseshit You Will Print! by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 1

      p0wned.

      McDonald's in Guangzhou delivers 24/7, baby.

      --
      Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
    65. Re:Oh, the Horseshit You Will Print! by PCM2 · · Score: 1

      I've lived in California for 33 years and nobody has ever seriously talked about secession. Now, splitting Southern and Northern California in to separate states, on the other hand...

      --
      Breakfast served all day!
    66. Re:Oh, the Horseshit You Will Print! by Grishnakh · · Score: 2

      I'm a futurologist. I've posted my predictions numerous times here on Slashdot. I'm sure many people have read them. They may not have agreed, but it's hard not to read random posts when browsing Slashdot articles, before deciding "this guy's a moron!". All this together makes me a futurologist.

      Of course, since I don't get paid for my opinions, that probably makes me an "amateur futurologist", unlike the professionals who get paid by writing click-bait.

    67. Re:Oh, the Horseshit You Will Print! by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 1

      Bite your tongue. The most beautiful thing in Stockholm is Burger King!

      --
      Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
    68. Re:Oh, the Horseshit You Will Print! by wavedeform · · Score: 1

      The South/Tea Party will break off well before Cali.

      Yes, Please.

    69. Re:Oh, the Horseshit You Will Print! by Nadaka · · Score: 1

      Nothing stopping me from leaving? There are the family, friends, neighbors and citizens that I would be abandoning. If every person who gives a damn about this country moves away, then the people who want to tear it all down will win. No. I will not run away. I will not cede ground. I will stay. I will speak. I will act. I will fight to make my country right, to strive for the ideals of liberty and progress that so many have abandoned. That is what it means to be an American Patriot.

    70. Re:Oh, the Horseshit You Will Print! by jpapon · · Score: 2

      It is quite a stretch to equate the United States to empires like the Roman, British, etc... The key distinction is that people in the USA identify themselves as Americans, as much as, if not more than, they identify themselves by their individual States. This was not the case in the other empires you listed.

      --
      -- Let us endeavor so to live that when we pass even the undertaker shall be sorry. -- M. Twain
    71. Re:Oh, the Horseshit You Will Print! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2

      Seriously, what has the South done for us in the last hundred years that was worth fighting and winning a civil war over?

      Let's see, what did the South give us that was worth a civil war?

      The only working diamond mine in the US, highest production of crude oil, poultry, cattle, primary source of bauxite (read aluminum) in the US before, during and after WW II (that might have been considered important to some people), the primary production facility for zinc in the US, the largest producer of lead in the US, the largest production of cotton in the US, the largest denim producer in the world, the largest producer of rice in the US, blues and jazz...
      I'd say that seems like quite a bit for 10 minutes worth of thinking and a couple of Google searches.

      So, in short, we got a fuck-ton. Was it worth a civil war? Apparently President Lincoln thought so.

    72. Re:Oh, the Horseshit You Will Print! by Guy+Harris · · Score: 1

      I'd personally like to see northern California (I'm not so sure about the southern part; that seems to be the source of most of their budget problems) break off, and join with Oregon and Washington and become a new country. Between Silicon Valley, Portland, and Seattle, the economy in that region is huge, leading the world even. California itself already has the 6th-largest (I think, maybe it's 8th) economy in the whole world, all by itself. Again, I'm not sure how much of that is from the south vs. the north, but I theorize that the north might have the majority because of Silicon Valley. OR and WA also have tons of tech companies. Together, they'd be a great economic power if they could just keep the SanFran liberals under control so they don't ruin the budget. (I'm not arguing for extremist Tea Party principles here, just some moderation; you can't keep your government afloat when you're spending more money than you take in in tax revenue on free services for everyone.)

      It'd be even better if they could get British Columbia break away from Canada and join them, as Vancouver is also very strong in tech, and is also an important shipping port for access to the rest of Canada. The local cultures between Vancouver and WA/OR seem to be fairly similar too. Surely the Vancouverites have more in common with Seattle residents than with Quebec residents.

      Joel, is that you? :-)

    73. Re:Oh, the Horseshit You Will Print! by Dcnjoe60 · · Score: 1

      I noticed his predictions were pretty ridiculous. Probably the most obvious one was his 10/10 for fusion in a hundred years. Given the rate of progress, or lack thereof, I don't see it as being certain. Given that it hasn't yet been established as possible, and that it's been 50 years away for at least 50 years, I think it's rather optimistic to consider it a certainty.

      I personally believe that we'll eventually get fusion worked out, but right now I don't see any way in which it can be considered certain. Especially with the backlash against fission lately.

      You can buy a Ford Fusion today. Why wait 100 years?

    74. Re:Oh, the Horseshit You Will Print! by Guy+Harris · · Score: 2

      Visa? That's dumb, obviously it's going to be Bitcoins.

      Perhaps it would be now, but Bitcoin didn't exist in 1992.

    75. Re:Oh, the Horseshit You Will Print! by ArmchairGeneral · · Score: 1

      Although more respected....

    76. Re:Oh, the Horseshit You Will Print! by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      Nothing stopping me from leaving? There are the family, friends, neighbors and citizens that I would be abandoning.

      They're not stopping you from leaving. You choosing not to leave is a different matter; no one is forcing you to stay.

      If every person who gives a damn about this country moves away, then the people who want to tear it all down will win

      What people are those? The people tearing down the country are your own countrymen. It's like that in just about every country that's ever been "torn down". The Roman Empire wasn't conquered by outsiders, it destroyed itself due to corruption. It's the same here.

      No. I will not run away. I will not cede ground. I will stay. I will speak. I will act. I will fight to make my country right

      You'll be fighting all your friends, neighbors, and even family, because they're the ones who are trying to change the country into something you don't like. Just look at how they vote.

    77. Re:Oh, the Horseshit You Will Print! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I believe what you're referring to is pretty close to the concept of Cascadia.

      That being said, this is a bit interesting:
      "Critics who cite the stability of the United States in particular as making Cascadia unlikely as a reality cite the popular academic opinion that the Civil War showed that states had no right and/or power to leave the Union[49] and thus all present states will always be part of the US. "

      So basically what needs to happen is either a) the US federal government becomes totally ineffective and unable to exert control over the states (unlikely until the debt loading gets so bad that they're impotent), or a crazy-assed renegade cabal of military officers grab control of a few assets belonging to at least two legs of the nuclear deterrent (for a convincing second-strike capability). Look to get started with the boomers at Bremerton. But then again, the folks I know up in that area are quite a bit more refined than that; it's something I'd expect from the south if they wanted to break off... which of course will not happen because quite simply, aside from Austin, Texas, Research Triangle, and a very few other areas they've got jack shit worth having.

      Do I think this is going to happen? No. Do I wish the US would break up? Yes. Every time I look at a red state / blue state map I remember how little I have in common with those in Jesusland.

    78. Re:Oh, the Horseshit You Will Print! by Third+Position · · Score: 2

      Indeed. Ever look at the predictions from 1912 about how life would be in a hundred years? I expect ours will be about as accurate.

      --
      American Third Position
      Finally, a real choice!
    79. Re:Oh, the Horseshit You Will Print! by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      I've seen that, and I like it, except for the whole "empty quarter" part. Realistically, that would be divided up by the other powers because it's low in population and rich in resources. Also, he totally forgot about Utah, grouping that into the "empty quarter"; more realistically, if the US broke up, Utah plus some of the surrounding areas (namely southern Idaho) would secede and form a new Mormon nation, which would probably not include most of Colorado or Denver.

      Also, I can see southern Arizona (Tucson, but probably not Phoenix), southern New Mexico, and parts of southern Texas rejoining Mexico.

    80. Re:Oh, the Horseshit You Will Print! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      40 years ago I was the future now apparently Im the past.

    81. Re:Oh, the Horseshit You Will Print! by Guy+Harris · · Score: 1

      Not just the British Empire. The Roman Empire, the Ottoman Empire, The Russian Empire, The French Empire, The Spanish Empire, the USSR.

      Empires rise, and then they fall again. The USA is on the same path as all the empire before it. Only the timing varies.

      There's "the US" and there's "the US empire". The British, French, and Spanish empires had nation-states ruling over a bunch of colonies; the colonies split off, but the nation-state remained. (Well, perhaps the jury's still out on Britain.) The Russian/Soviet empire was somewhat similar, but without the overseas colonies; Russia still exists as a nation.

    82. Re:Oh, the Horseshit You Will Print! by vlm · · Score: 4, Interesting

      If you don't get out of the south at age 21, you are screwed.

      Unless you live in Huntsville. I lived there for awhile in the 90s. Strange place, it was like everyone who knew anything went to Huntsville. Because of NASA and the missile development contractors etc. Everyone had a security clearance and was involved in something interesting. If you didn't want to be the only literate person in your rural village, but still wanted to eat grits and pecan pie, you moved to Huntsville and got a govt job building missiles and whatever. I donno what its like now, but it was a heck of a great place as a young technological man in the 90s. I still culturally attach myself to the hightech redneck meme or whatever, even 20 years later.

      The culture, though, remains in place

      It was a weird experience to tune the radio around and hear American Dissident Voices being broadcast. It can take some getting used to. Also, everyone, and I mean everyone, seems to go to church or lies and says they do and nothing but evangelical christianity for the whites, baptist for the blacks, and catholicism for the illegals exists, as in mentally provincially no other religious existence is even conceivable or expressible. Its not all bad, some of the nicest folks I've met have followed the southern gentleman ideal of hospitality and respect, and the brotherhood of hightech rednecks knows no limit, if you know how to program a microcontroller and cut threads on a metal lathe and you meet another hightech redneck its like you're insta-adopted into the family, which is nice and friendly but sure takes a bit to get used to for a frigid northerner.

      --
      "Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
    83. Re:Oh, the Horseshit You Will Print! by Nadaka · · Score: 1

      Nothing stopping me from leaving? There are the family, friends, neighbors and citizens that I would be abandoning.

      They're not stopping you from leaving. You choosing not to leave is a different matter; no one is forcing you to stay.

      Semantics. They are stopping me because I am not willing to let them go AKA abandon them. I want all of America to be made right, prosperous and free. Not split with one half going off the shrivel and die and the other facing a very uncertain future in a weakened state.

      If every person who gives a damn about this country moves away, then the people who want to tear it all down will win

      What people are those? The people tearing down the country are your own countrymen. It's like that in just about every country that's ever been "torn down". The Roman Empire wasn't conquered by outsiders, it destroyed itself due to corruption. It's the same here.

      No. I will not run away. I will not cede ground. I will stay. I will speak. I will act. I will fight to make my country right

      You'll be fighting all your friends, neighbors, and even family, because they're the ones who are trying to change the country into something you don't like. Just look at how they vote.

      No shit. The difference is that I do not believe it is inevitable and unavoidable. Most of the people being manipulated by the fascists and anti-american traitors are being manipulated and lied to and are being tricked into voting their own country away. Maybe I will have to fight them, maybe they will be able to see through all the bullshit. And if they don't, they are still my ideological enemies and enemies of America. And I don't have a problem with fighting that, even if it is a loosing battle it is the right thing to do.

      Do not go gentle into that good night,
      Old age should burn and rave at close of day;
      Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

      Though wise men at their end know dark is right,
      Because their words had forked no lightning they
      Do not go gentle into that good night.

      Good men, the last wave by, crying how bright
      Their frail deeds might have danced in a green bay,
      Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

      Wild men who caught and sang the sun in flight,
      And learn, too late, they grieved it on its way,
      Do not go gentle into that good night.

      Grave men, near death, who see with blinding sight
      Blind eyes could blaze like meteors and be gay,
      Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

      And you, my father, there on that sad height,
      Curse, bless, me now with your fierce tears, I pray.
      Do not go gentle into that good night.
      Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

      Dylan Thomas

    84. Re:Oh, the Horseshit You Will Print! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'll be a futurologist within 2 years

    85. Re:Oh, the Horseshit You Will Print! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Which south are we talking about?

    86. Re:Oh, the Horseshit You Will Print! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Shouldn't that be "I will become a futurologist"? Might as well give yourself a leg up on those predictions, eh?

    87. Re:Oh, the Horseshit You Will Print! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm a futurologist and 100% of my predictions have been true. That is, 100% of those I remember making when it turns out they were right. What? I've made other wrong predictions? I'm sorry, I don't remember the past, I'm a futurologist.

    88. Re:Oh, the Horseshit You Will Print! by RicktheBrick · · Score: 1

      Here are my predictions. Humans will live a thousand feet underground. All transportation will be automatic. There will be just one basic reason for human to travel and that will be to visit another human being. Both work and shopping will be done remotely. One will call ahead when visiting so as to get the required permission to visit another home. There will be a super computer that knows everything. It will know what everyone has and needs and will control all production of products accordingly. Computers will talk to humans and will be able to detect any false statements of the human. Since computer will be able to rule humans far better than we can ourselves both democracy and capitalism will be dead. There will be no need for any improvements in any product. Here is how we will live. A man will go to sleep at midnight. He will sleep in a room that will not change a degree in temperature or a per cent in humidity. He will take a pill that will double the effect of sleep so he will sleep only 4 hours. When he awakes he will go to his bathroom where his toilet will measure almost everything one can measure about a man. This will be recorded from birth to death. The computer will than know when, what and how much food the man will eat that day. He will than go to his exercise room and the computer will know exactly how much he has done and the effect on his body since birth. The computer will tell him how much exercise is required from him. He will go to the eating room. All food will be delivered cooked and just in time to eat it. Everything in the house will be able to withstand a cleaning and disinfectant so the man will leave the house for a walk outside and come back to a perfectly clean house. He will than go to the communication room where he will accomplish all of his work in a couple of hours. Windows will be replaced by video monitors that will have any scenery the man desires. Humans will be able to record all experiences and their effect on the brain therefore one will be able to relive not only his own experiences but anyone else. We will be able to communicate with our brain without using our senses and therefore we will be able to live in a total artificial world if we want to. For instance one will be able to relive any athletics accomplishments. One will put on a helmet and it will be like one is in the game and doing and feeling everything the other human experienced. The same will go for sexual experiences.

    89. Re:Oh, the Horseshit You Will Print! by madprof · · Score: 1

      Ian Pearson is a complete know-nothing and had been for, well, ever. I recall laughing hard at his newspaper articles back in the day where he'd make vague comments about current trends, not noticing that technology was actually moving quicker than he'd appreciated.

      Just good to see he's not lost it. Where "it" is the art of bullshitting.

    90. Re:Oh, the Horseshit You Will Print! by russotto · · Score: 1

      There's "the US" and there's "the US empire". The British, French, and Spanish empires had nation-states ruling over a bunch of colonies; the colonies split off, but the nation-state remained. (Well, perhaps the jury's still out on Britain.) The Russian/Soviet empire was somewhat similar, but without the overseas colonies; Russia still exists as a nation.

      Which makes the US imperial possessions American Samoa, Guam, the Northern Mariana Islands, the Phillippines (oops, no, we gave that up), Kuwait, Iraq (oops, no, we gave them up too), the US Virgin Islands, the US Minor Outlying Islands (uninhabited), the Panama Canal Zone (nope, gave it up), Grenada (nope, gave that up too), and arguably Puerto Rico.

      Not much of an empire, for all the cries of imperialism.

    91. Re:Oh, the Horseshit You Will Print! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just fine? Do you have any idea how much debt California is in due to the support of numerous liberal programs including state tuition and free medical care for illegals? You have a computer so I'll let you google it.

    92. Re:Oh, the Horseshit You Will Print! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And this is why 'the north' and 'the south' still do not get each other. For the south it was very much about 'butt the hell out'. For the north it was about 'you can do that to people'. To this day many people think it was about slavery OR states rights. When it was about both. You can not tell me the south was able to raise a HUGE army just because a few 1%ers wanted to keep their slaves. Most couldnt even come close to ever even buying one (being 150-250 dollars, more than many made in years of work). Many in the north saw it as the union being torn apart and could give a whit about slaves. Many in the south saw it is the northerners coming down and butting in where they had no business.

      States rights pfaw it was about people telling each other what to do. That is what war is about.

    93. Re:Oh, the Horseshit You Will Print! by Jappus · · Score: 1

      I'll have you know Beijing has McDonald's, plenty of them in fact... Did you know McDonald's in Shanghai deliver? If that is not true beauty, I don't know what is. :)

      You're perfectly right, of course. But given that Warhol died in 1987, I think we might be allowed to be a tad more lenient towards his knowledge of the current state of affairs. But only a tad... ;-)

    94. Re:Oh, the Horseshit You Will Print! by marcosdumay · · Score: 1

      How do you want me to belive you know something about the future if you are not even a futurologist yet?

    95. Re:Oh, the Horseshit You Will Print! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hello. I am an American-apologist. Believe me, I'd love to be able to refute claims that America is imperialist.

      Sadly, I can't. Our territorial possessions are certainly small, but our influence on other nominally sovereign territories is so vast that it can't be brushed aside on a mere technicality. Politically, culturally and economically many countries are essentially colonies of the United States. Our approach to them is certainly in contrast to the approach of the European colonial powers of the 19th century, and the United States largely honors independence, so the deal is a tad better.

      But it is simplistic to deny the de-facto empire just because it is not structured in the European sense.

    96. Re:Oh, the Horseshit You Will Print! by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      It's only a matter of time. This story is about 100 year predictions. China is going to overtake the US and Europe way before then.

    97. Re:Oh, the Horseshit You Will Print! by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      If anyone would break, it would be CA because of the finance crisis. They pay more to DC than they get back. So seceding (ending federal income tax for the Californians) would result in improved services and lower cost. They can't make the budget work now, so cutting taxes and improving services for the same money couldn't hurt.

    98. Re:Oh, the Horseshit You Will Print! by gregOfTheWeb · · Score: 1

      But he's got a SAWEEET looking website. Nice futurist website, it's all geo-cities circa 1999. The only thing it's missing is a rotating, flaming skull.

      http://www.futurizon.com/

      The white background logo over the gradient blue background is nice. The all center text is a throwback to many classic sites of yesteryear.

      --
      blah
    99. Re:Oh, the Horseshit You Will Print! by ElectricTurtle · · Score: 1

      Sounds more like the Occupy Movement... the funny thing is even as you don't like the fringe, I rather doubt you like the center either.

      --
      I support the Slashcott and will not be reading or commenting from 2/10/14 to 2/17/14. Beta is steaming pile of dog shit
    100. Re:Oh, the Horseshit You Will Print! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Empire and nation ain't the same thing...

    101. Re:Oh, the Horseshit You Will Print! by gmhowell · · Score: 1

      To be fair though, that map and the text on which it is based date back to 1981.

      --
      Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon
    102. Re:Oh, the Horseshit You Will Print! by JoeMerchant · · Score: 1

      The key is that "getting along just fine as is" bit. Those days are numbered. China is taking over as world superpower. That's going to have interesting effects on the USA.

      Can we PLEASE stop with the China thing? They own less than 9% of U.S. debt. They do not have any meaningful middle class. They offer nothing in the way influence on the world stage beyond that which they have with a few questionable regimes. China will be a power. Maybe a super power, but they're a long, very long way away from parity with Europe much less United States.

      How much foreign debt does the U.S. currently own? Compare that to 1970, what's the trend?

      What's the U.S. middle class looking like today, as compared to 1970?

      The U.S. certainly has influence on the world stage, lately more resembling your average 8th grade bully, usually not a good sign for future prospects.

      These are trends of the last 42 years... If things keep going this way for another 100 years, I could see the U.S. and the U.K. sharing a nice cuppa tea together and watching the world go by the way that England already has for the last 50 years, and France for the last 100.

    103. Re:Oh, the Horseshit You Will Print! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      let me guess. you live in a big city. i live in the south. i have traveled around. i have seen the erosion of southern culture during my lifetime. some of what has been lost is for the best. however, now, i don't see any difference between 'the south' and other rural parts of the US. the US is roughly 80% rural. even the states that have big cities are usually mostly rural. california is the only exception i can think of. i am now 38 and i'm not screwed because i live in the south. i think you'll find that the tea party/conservative demographic border is not limited to the south but to the rural parts of the US. i think the tea party is a reaction of rural people that are fed up with the entire country being governed like it's a big city...when most of the country is rural and there are only a few dozen big cities.

    104. Re:Oh, the Horseshit You Will Print! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      hey, what do you expect from us? you took away our cheap labor and gave them a sense of entitlement. then, you started buying your cotton, soybeans, and rice from other countries.

      but it's ok. obama and the feds are giving us cheap labor again in the form of legal? illegal immigrants.

    105. Re:Oh, the Horseshit You Will Print! by Nadaka · · Score: 2

      Sounds more like the Occupy Movement... the funny thing is even as you don't like the fringe, I rather doubt you like the center either.

      How were the Occupy Movement going to shut down the government? sitting on the steps of capitol hill and chanting while they get shot, pepper sprayed and hauled off to jail? The tea party held the US and global economy hostage to to extract tax breaks for billionaires in a time of crisis.

      While Occupy didn't speak with a single unified voice, the general message was to purge corruption and collusion from the banking industry and government. That was definitely a good message and fairly well aimed.

    106. Re:Oh, the Horseshit You Will Print! by Teancum · · Score: 1

      Predictions about states breaking off, particularly California, have been made since the beginning of the American Republic. This is nothing new. The reasons for such a break-off are surprisingly unchanged, yet California has remained a U.S. State for more than a century since that original prediction was made.

      Yeah, I think these guys need to read history first, and learn a bit more about the topic they are pontificating about.

    107. Re:Oh, the Horseshit You Will Print! by Fyzzler · · Score: 1

      I predict that in 100 years, fusion will only be 50 more years out from being in practical use.

      --
      I have one question. If the Japanese Ministry of Agriculture is not in charge of Gundam, then who is?
    108. Re:Oh, the Horseshit You Will Print! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      One thing's for sure for the next century, and that's that your racist "American Third Position" will never be taken seriously.

    109. Re:Oh, the Horseshit You Will Print! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nice to see all the geographical bias and bigotry here. You would think with the railing most /.'ers post against racism and prejudices, that the bandwagon of "dumb Southerners" wouldn't have so many riders. Being from the South myself, it's disappointing to see and read such preconceived notions and generalizations about life here. Just like anywhere else in the world, there is diversity - in both thought and actions. Not everyone is an evangelical Bible thumper or a toothless redneck. I'm not saying there isn't room for improvement in education, but that's hardly exclusive to Southern states. Maybe you should look in the mirror for a target next time you want to go off on an uneducated bigot.

    110. Re:Oh, the Horseshit You Will Print! by fishthegeek · · Score: 2

      The U.S. does own foreign debt. Mostly third world debt. If I were to guess without the Googles I'd say 60-70 billion. If you count un-reimbursed military expenditures for protectorates you would easily multiply what you find by a factor of 13-15. As for the middle class in the United States? It doesn't matter what the current shape of the middle class is. It has always changed and always will. Some fluctuations are faster and some more pronounced. The middle class in China is less than 1% of the population with incomes at about $12,500 per year. Contrast this with the United States where the median income for a single earner with a high school diploma is earning over $20,000. The middle third of earners in the U.S. make over $30,000. According to Wikipedia and other sources just the top 18% of U.S. earners make more than 100k. The United States will decline, all empires do. China has a massive property problem because they have had a boom nearly identical to the U.S. Political unrest is a massive threat to their current regime. They have no meaningful quantities of natural resources for sustained growth. The United States will have to welcome a new super power as we decline. My best guess is that the next super power will probably not be the China we know now.

      --
      load "$",8,1
    111. Re:Oh, the Horseshit You Will Print! by Unoriginal_Nickname · · Score: 1

      It was about economics. Just like every other war, ever.

      Nobody was telling the southern states that they had to get rid of slaves. The closest thing was the federal government prohibiting the spread of slavery into the new territories (cf. Missouri Compromise.) Cotton farmers depended on migration to new land because incompetent cotton farming quickly resulted in soil depletion. In effect, the business practices of slave owners were no longer tenable. The ~30% who owned slaves, being the owners of the means of production, effectively controlled the economy and dominated the politics of the day.

      Yes, in a sense you are absolutely correct that the civil war was about states' rights. The problem is that all of those rights essentially boil down to the right to own slaves.

      It's like that joke:
      In elementary school, you learn that the civil war was about slavery.
      In high school, you learn that the civil war was about states' rights.
      In college, you learn that the civil war was about slavery.

    112. Re:Oh, the Horseshit You Will Print! by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 1

      o South wants Federal forts

      on Southern land...

      o South attacks forts and takes by force.

      And then we get into minutia about whether the cadets at The Citadel were part of the war or not.

      But, hey, trial by combat is an age-old tradition for settling differences.

      --
      My God, it's Full of Source!
      OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
    113. Re:Oh, the Horseshit You Will Print! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      State's rights to do what, exactly?

      Run a diff between the confederation's constitution and the union's.

      Go on, I'm waiting.

      OK, what did they change?
      A)The president's term is now six years (since they didn't want an election midwar)
      B)Slavery.

      That's it. That's everything.

    114. Re:Oh, the Horseshit You Will Print! by JoeMerchant · · Score: 1

      The U.S. does own foreign debt. Mostly third world debt.

      Yeah, junk bonds worked out so well in the 1980s, what could go wrong taking the concept global?

      The United States will decline, all empires do.

      I am essentially powerless to change this, I do my part, but as one 300 millionth of the population, and personally controlling much less than that fraction of the privately held resources (even though I fall fairly high on the income and property spectrum compared to the median, my percentage holding of wealth is a laughably smaller fraction than 1/300millionth) I do feel at best like a fish pressing on the hull of the Titanic.

      Why do I even care? Because, I still believe that, as an "average" person, the U.S. is one of the top 10 places to live in the world, choosing a favorite from that list becomes a matter of taste at some level, but it would be a damn shame for the U.S. to devolve into some third world backwater where less than 0.1% of the population controls more than 99.9% of the wealth/land/resources.

      China has a massive property problem because they have had a boom nearly identical to the U.S. Political unrest is a massive threat to their current regime.

      India is struggling with similar growth problems, it's damping their exponential economic expansion curve pretty heavily.

      The United States will have to welcome a new super power as we decline. My best guess is that the next super power will probably not be the China we know now.

      Let's hope the "welcoming" is more gracious than it tended to be 100 years ago or more.

    115. Re:Oh, the Horseshit You Will Print! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As a Chinese, I will say there is a 50-50 chance of China moving to a democratic style of government in 100 years. It will also have a (much bigger than present) illegal immigration problem like the US, but the US will have solved its problem by becoming an isolated country (+/- Canada), which is fine as there will still be half a billion people living there.

    116. Re:Oh, the Horseshit You Will Print! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      power may change hands, but a pinky, a pinky may stay raised forever.

      hats off to you, british empire, old chums.

    117. Re:Oh, the Horseshit You Will Print! by epine · · Score: 1

      These are trends of the last 42 years... If things keep going this way for another 100 years ...

      If fatman had remained supercritical for another microsecond, it would have consumed all the available plutonium and starved to death.

      Unless you think the majority of baby boomers are going to live to see their sesquicentennial birthdays, the population pyramid will have a sleek new look 100 years from now. There aren't any predictions I've seen that world population will evolve for another 100 years at rates comparable to the last fifty. National debt structure is subordinate to world population structure. Even for goldbugs and other kooks.

    118. Re:Oh, the Horseshit You Will Print! by TaoJones · · Score: 1

      So basically "In the Year 2525" by Zager & Evans...

      --
      "Fear is the rootkit of democracy.." Blarkon
    119. Re:Oh, the Horseshit You Will Print! by Totenglocke · · Score: 1

      Of course by "started the war" you mean "peaceably left and the North kept troops stationed in a sovereign nation, which then attacked when said sovereign nation tried to remove them".

      --
      "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." ~Thomas Jefferson
    120. Re:Oh, the Horseshit You Will Print! by Hognoxious · · Score: 5, Funny

      Someone will invent a way of making text more readable, perhaps by splitting it into smaller chunks.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    121. Re:Oh, the Horseshit You Will Print! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That really, really depends on how you define "started the war".

      Don't forget George Washington was a terrorist too!

    122. Re:Oh, the Horseshit You Will Print! by mjwx · · Score: 5, Funny

      Whoooooooooosh, Whooooooooooooooosh, Whoooooooooooooosh.
      /flashing lights.

      I have just arrived here from the year 2112 in my time machine to answer a few of your questions.

      The South did win the war against the north due to everyone migrating into Canada. The problem with that is that the South wasn't happy being one state, so South North declared war on the South South which sat at a stalemate for years until Canada finally annexed the south and polited the southerners into submission. All sports other then hockey are now banned in Greater Canada and the beverage previously known as Beer in the former US was renamed "Goats Piss" by His Royal Openness Michael Geist and the 1st open source monarch.

      Overpopulation was solved by the zombie crisis of 2035. The zombies actually won that but we were able to stall them by giving them their own sitcom. Groaning Pains is now in it's 76 th season although the corpse of Michael J Fox wont last that many more seasons.

      China never became a real superpower because they couldn't make a decent cappuccino.

      Most oil reserves ran out in 2048, in 2049 an enterprising geneticist came up with the idea of cloning dinosaurs from DNA encased in fossilised mosquitoes which then could be raised on a Costa Rican Island and turned into oil. Apart from the odd human consumption incident, this has been a smashing success.

      The break up of the European Union was announced in 2014, as of December 2111, the EU parliament still hasn't got a working plan on how to facilitate the break up.

      First contact was made in 2076. A ship landed in southern Fiji, initially hostile the insectoid aliens were pacified by giving them candy. in 2078 the KzsSSNRRG declared war on Earth to secure candy supplies. The Department of Homeworld Security was formed although quickly disbanded after they discovered the KzsSSNRRG's exoskeleton deflected millimetre wave scanners and no one wanted to give them an enhanced pat down. The war raged on in the stars for years with the Earth Defence Forces slowly falling back until we were able to clone Casper Van Diem.

      Flying cars are still 20 years away.

      Wikipedism is now bigger then Islam and Christianity combined. Jimmy Wales was deified on his death bed and now millions of people now start their days by staring and offering a personal appeal Jimmy Wales.

      The Apple-Google wars of 2018 were as short lived as they were fierce. Apple lost the conflict because they used shiny white armour that could be spotted a mile away and their guns could only fire one bullet before having to be reloaded.

      Lord British took over the British isles in 2023. He implemented an experience point for all working residents of great Britain. One earned XP at whatever job they do. It's the only place on earth where a level 73 Tea Lady beats a Level 42 CEO.

      Richard M Stallman was lost forever on 14 August 2041. His home was searched by police but all they found was an empty bottle of soap and a recently used razor.

      Copyright is now life of the sun plus 10,000 years, but Bit Torrent still works.

      If you would excuse me, I must return to my own time. Typing on keyboards is so quaint, in the future we just shout "Bingle, Porn" and it does everything automatically.
      Farewell.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    123. Re:Oh, the Horseshit You Will Print! by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      the war of northern aggression

      Heh.....the south lost all rights to this term when they fired the first shot.

      And that was their downfall.....it isn't at all clear that Lincoln had the political influence to start a war if the South hadn't shot first. Turns out to have been a very bad shot.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    124. Re:Oh, the Horseshit You Will Print! by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      The South fired the first shot. It doesn't matter at all now, but it was important at the time.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    125. Re:Oh, the Horseshit You Will Print! by mjwx · · Score: 1

      You spelled "War of Southern Treason" wrong.

      The South started the war, so I fail to see how it could be Northern aggression.

      Well it depends on who wins it doesn't it.

      If France won the Napoleonic conflict, wouldn't we be referring to them as the Neslsonic and Wellingtonic wars.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    126. Re:Oh, the Horseshit You Will Print! by Patch86 · · Score: 1

      Their claims aren't even consistent. They give "we will all be telepathic" (a technology that has never had even the most basic of basic elements successfully demonstrated) 10/10 for liklihood, as they do for controlled nuclear fusion (on which the jusry is still out on whether it is even possible). On the other hand, they give "80% of the world will allow gay marriage" 8/10, despite the fact it is already allowed in a wide array of countries- and homosexuallity was still a crime in most of the world only half a century or so ago. And they give "wars by the West will be fought by remote control" 5/10- despite the fact we already are using a wide array of robotic weapons, and have dozens in the pipeline!

    127. Re:Oh, the Horseshit You Will Print! by ZmeiGorynych · · Score: 1

      Or of Heinlein's 'Friday', since the discussion still mostly assumes states based on contiguous geographical areas.

    128. Re:Oh, the Horseshit You Will Print! by IrquiM · · Score: 1

      For all other countries than US, Europe is way above US when it comes to "parity". Stop thinking that US is such a wonderful place to live/be. Even when it comes to "The American Dream" US is only 10th.

      US and China is actually closing in on eachother. US is going down, and China is going up, and it won't surprise me if they'd meet during the next 100 years. When is another question...

      --
      This is blinging
    129. Re:Oh, the Horseshit You Will Print! by Hognoxious · · Score: 2

      Ever look at the predictions from 1912 about how life would be in a hundred years?

      Titanic still afloat, flying cars common (make that just cars - Ed) and the year of Linux on the desktop just around the corner.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    130. Re:Oh, the Horseshit You Will Print! by Neil+Boekend · · Score: 1

      Why would we even have humans around?

      - Your's sincerely, CADIE

      --
      Well, I might have a way, but it only works on a semi spherical planet in a vacuum.
    131. Re:Oh, the Horseshit You Will Print! by McGuirk · · Score: 1

      East of Nevada - a place for theists who want things like pro-life

      Why does every always assume that the only pro-lifers are religious types?

      I do recognize certain cases that warrant abortion, but I think that abortion for birth control is immoral and violates the human rights of the fetus. I am agnostic.

      Also: http://www.godlessprolifers.org/home.html

    132. Re:Oh, the Horseshit You Will Print! by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      ROTFL. They're talking about California breaking off politically, not physically.

      I'm not absolutely sure but I assumed that GP was being sarcastic.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    133. Re:Oh, the Horseshit You Will Print! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What is the legal basis for succeeding?

    134. Re:Oh, the Horseshit You Will Print! by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      Also, I can see southern Arizona (Tucson, but probably not Phoenix), southern New Mexico, and parts of southern Texas rejoining Mexico.

      Remember the Alamo?

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    135. Re:Oh, the Horseshit You Will Print! by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      Not much of an empire, for all the cries of imperialism.

      There are such things as cultural and economic imperialism, you know.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    136. Re:Oh, the Horseshit You Will Print! by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      Personally I think we are going to see Technological Singularity with AI at some point and probably wipe some 90% of the population in the wake of such an event.

      Why do singularity fanboys always say things like this? More likely is that there will be a luddite-style revolt and the 90% will destroy the computers and the rich elite who own them and want to gang up with the AIs.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    137. Re:Oh, the Horseshit You Will Print! by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      No, I'm a futurologist!

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    138. Re:Oh, the Horseshit You Will Print! by daem0n1x · · Score: 1

      they're a long, very long way away from parity with Europe much less United States.

      Parity on what? Your post implies that Europe is somewhat "inferior" to the USA in whatever criteria you're thinking about and not mentioning. The European Union has the largest GDP, most European are in the top positions in Human Development Index and every other possible indicator you can imagine.

      Except if you're considering stuff like gun murder rates, imprisonment rate or military presence all around the world. In those indicators, the USA lead the way!

    139. Re:Oh, the Horseshit You Will Print! by daem0n1x · · Score: 1

      In Communist China, backwater is YOU!

    140. Re:Oh, the Horseshit You Will Print! by daem0n1x · · Score: 1

      WTF???

    141. Re:Oh, the Horseshit You Will Print! by daem0n1x · · Score: 1

      You forget that USA rules most of the world de facto. They have economic and military dominion. They don't have formal political dominion, but actually control a great deal of the governments in the world. If this is not an empire, I don't know what it could be.

    142. Re:Oh, the Horseshit You Will Print! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The South started the war, so I fail to see how it could be Northern aggression.

      You obviously don't live in the South. The South remembers the Civil War like it was yesterday, and is totally hung up on it. As much as those of us Yankees don't really care about it one way or another, other than it being a part of the nation's history that we're not totally proud of, in the South it's still a festering wound of which it's constantly reminding itself (Texas celebrates Confederate Heroes Day, and makes the kiddies recite the Texas Pledge each morning), and all the calls of, "The South is gonna do it agin'" kind of make you wonder.

      OTOH, I think that everybody is looking for a reason to hate everybody else, and the War of Northern Aggression is pretty convenient.

    143. Re:Oh, the Horseshit You Will Print! by tbannist · · Score: 1

      To be fair, Obama has invaded fewer countries during his first term than Bush did. On the other hand, it's pretty fair to say that Obama could have been the best Republican president since Ronald Reagan. You know if he had put an R next to his name, and if the Republican party wasn't foaming-at-the-mouth insane.

      --
      Fanatically anti-fanatical
    144. Re:Oh, the Horseshit You Will Print! by jpapon · · Score: 1

      Did you not understand me?

      --
      -- Let us endeavor so to live that when we pass even the undertaker shall be sorry. -- M. Twain
    145. Re:Oh, the Horseshit You Will Print! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I would immediately apply for immigration.

    146. Re:Oh, the Horseshit You Will Print! by greap · · Score: 1

      > But that's what happens when you base your whole economy on slavery and blame other people because you can't compete with free market mass industrialization.

      Actualy somewhat the inverse is true. The South traded their cotton with Europe and brought back technology and other goods with them. In order to protect the industrial cities in the North the federal government imposed heavy import duties on almost everything the south was buying up. Ultimately this was the sticking point in discussions; The south agreed, in principal, to end slavery on the condition that the economic protectionism of the north was also ended at the same time but this was ultimately rejected.

      Neither side had a free market and both wanted some form of protectionism be it slavery or import taxes.

    147. Re:Oh, the Horseshit You Will Print! by rtb61 · · Score: 1

      All your predictions fall over unless you do one thing first, solve the energy problem.

      So more realistic would things like, the bulk of food being produced by aquaponics http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aquaponics (uses far less land area, water, uses less energy and can be closer to cities). After an extensive political battle the creative commons takes precedence of prior copyright rules, with copyright being limited to a decade based upon 'production investment' and recovering that investment. All public and private officials especially politicians now undergo full medical, intellectual and psychological, prior to gaining any roles that cover governance, control or influence. There will be a push to shift all people to energy efficient high density housing, that properly fulfils physiological and psychological and limits impacts upon the environment.

      Those examples of course count on the spread and use of nuclear weapons is avoided. That genetics experimentation doesn't result in an ecological catastrophe. That the majority of lobbyists are terminated prior to allowing unrestrained pollution of the environment, unlimited chemical experiments on human food sources, the reintroduction of slavery via the private prison system and the public auctioning of legislation.

      Proviso, excludes all cosmological, extreme seismic or stellar events. When those happen, depending upon where and when you are, you can just bend over and kiss your ass good bye.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    148. Re:Oh, the Horseshit You Will Print! by VanessaE · · Score: 1

      Important note: read the last eight lines of that poem in Rodney Dangerfield's voice (as in Back to School).

    149. Re:Oh, the Horseshit You Will Print! by nanoflower · · Score: 1

      Did you not notice that the OP was quoting Andy Warhol? I think there wasn't a McDonald's in those locations back when he made those quotes. Things change over time and not always for the better.

    150. Re:Oh, the Horseshit You Will Print! by daem0n1x · · Score: 1

      The empire is not the country. The USA territory is the head of the empire. The empire is global.

      The USA dominate over much of the world. Economically via the worldwide spread of the USD, politically via pressure or puppet leaders and militarily because the US have their troops deployed everywhere.

      And, like the other empires before, it's collapsing because it's externalising all the economic activity from the core to the periphery. The core is becoming more and more parasitical and unproductive and will eventually implode.

    151. Re:Oh, the Horseshit You Will Print! by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      I didn't even have to read TFA to know it's utter bullshit. How about some past predictions?

      • In 1876 a prescient fellow predicted a horroble ecological disaster 100 years in the future -- we'd all be up to our waists in horse shit.
      • Flying cars
      • Household robot maids

      In 1869, who could have possibly predicted that we would land on the moon in a hundred years? In 1845 who could have predicted the electronic computer? In 1850 who would have predicted television? Before I was born in 1952, who could have predicted the internet (except for Murray Leinster)? Who could have predicted that by now, a computer a thousand times more powerful than the biggest three story monster in existance would fit in your pocket? Who predicted cell phones? VCRs, let alone DVDs?

      When I was twenty there's no way you would have convinced me that when I was 50 I would have an implant giving my very nearsighted self better than 20-20 vision. Nobody even predicted LASIK. Carbon nanotubes. The list goes on.

      In fact, very little of what was ever predicted ever came to pass, and what actually became reality was never predicted.

      So when I see a story about what the next century will be like, I just laugh at people's gullibility. You young folks will be amazed at what they come up with, and little or none of it will have been predicted.

      "Futurologist," LOL! Where can I get my PhD in "futurology"? Maybe the same place as a PhD in phrenology? What did the duck say when you asked who these guys were? The duck was right!

    152. Re:Oh, the Horseshit You Will Print! by V+for+Vendetta · · Score: 1

      No mod points today, so please accept this comment as my appreciation instead. :-)

    153. Re:Oh, the Horseshit You Will Print! by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      The Alamo's in San Antonio, which is some distance from the border. If you look at the voting maps, and demographics for Texas, you'll see that the southernmost counties were all blue voters, and are overwhelmingly hispanic. They'll probably want to rejoin Mexico, and I'm sure Mexico would love to reclaim some lost territory.

    154. Re:Oh, the Horseshit You Will Print! by Splab · · Score: 1

      Well you might want to read up on singularity events in sci-fi. Singularity will *not* favor those who want riches, quite the contrary.

      It's not about the AI taking over nor roaming rich people doing random hunting. Technological singularity should in theory lead to machines that can build anything by "grabbing" nearby atoms, it should lead to humans living hundreds of years, but it will in the process most likely kill off those who can't adapt to a world where everything changes over night. Imagine anything you want will be available to you, people would go crazy with power - wanting implants that would turn them into cyborgs, sex toys that would basically make you fuck till you drop. Power hungry factions battling it out with WMDs.

      (Also, an AI that could reach technological singularity would most likely arise from academica and thus be in the hands of people who aren't pursuing (initially) riches)

    155. Re:Oh, the Horseshit You Will Print! by DragonWriter · · Score: 1

      Mod parent up. The Republican party is disintegrating because while they point their fingers at each other screaming "RINO! RINO!" the fact is that just about everyone but Ron Paul is Conservative In Name Only.

      Ron Paul is, somewhat more than the average Republican, , a small-government, anti-tax libertarian.

      Most Republicans are conservatives -- adherents to a political and social philosophy that is itself an offshoot of the earlier royalism, and which appeals to the preservation of traditional institutions and values with, at most, gradual change.

      Fairly recently in historic terms (pretty much contemporaneously with the rise fo neoconservatism), Republicans, in the attempt to broaden their electoral base, attempted to recast their support of certain policies which support well-established institutions of economic power as being based on an ideological opposition to taxes and big government (though, in the same time, the same Republicans have frequently supported massive expansions of government and massive tax increases -- the real opposition has been to government action in particular domains and taxation of particular entities), and have attempted to sell libertarianism as a component of conservatism.

      Which is one reason why Paul is a perennial also-ran in Republican Presidential campaigns: the conservative interests that run the Republican Party, supply most of its base, and supply even more of the money for Republican campaigns aren't interested in libertarianism except as a marketing tool for conservatism.

    156. Re:Oh, the Horseshit You Will Print! by DragonWriter · · Score: 1

      They aren't suggesting right now. They're suggesting sometime in the next 100 years.

      Its still pretty unlikely, but its a far enough window that they don't have to worry too much about being proven wrong in their lifetime.

      The last US civil was only a bit more than a hundred years ago.

      And...so, what?

      The USSR only lasted 69 years.

      And...again, so what?

      The key is that "getting along just fine as is" bit. Those days are numbered.

      More evidence is needed for this claim.

      China is taking over as world superpower.

      China is certainly emerging as a superpower, though "taking over" (suggesting a transition from a monopolar, US-dominated world to a monopolar, Chinese-dominated one) is far from evident.

    157. Re:Oh, the Horseshit You Will Print! by seantide · · Score: 1

      I don't think the USA is doomed, I think a lot of our illusions are. That will correct itself, it has to. Its unfortunate that we let government try to avoid the correction because now it will be much worse, but it will come and we'll survive it. Life without boom and bust cannot be maintained without killing it.

      I won't say failure is impossible or even unlikely, but its not guaranteed. Our biggest problem is we were successful to the point where we have a generation or two who are ignorant of what it was like before that success, and how to get there and maintain it. Booms are great, but the busts tell you how to survive.

    158. Re:Oh, the Horseshit You Will Print! by cycleflight · · Score: 1

      Alaska can come too?

      --
      "...And who wants to make buttprints in the sands of time?" ~Bob Moawad
    159. Re:Oh, the Horseshit You Will Print! by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      I don't think the USA is doomed, I think a lot of our illusions are. That will correct itself, it has to.

      I'll bet the Soviets said the same thing in the late 80s. Look what happened to them.

    160. Re:Oh, the Horseshit You Will Print! by seantide · · Score: 1

      We are a little different from the Soviets. You should think more of Russia, not the USSR. Russia is still there. The Soviet system could never have survived, even if it functioned "perfectly".

      The US system works very well, when you let it.

      The illusions I speak of... I'm talking about things like spending $15 when we have $10, and that sort of thing. That simply doesn't work, and eventually it will correct. It can do so without dooming us, and the less we screw with these corrections the less severe they'll be.

      We have tried various things which simply don't work, and most of them we should have known it would not work, but we aren't doomed in any guaranteed sense.

    161. Re:Oh, the Horseshit You Will Print! by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      We are a little different from the Soviets. You should think more of Russia, not the USSR. Russia is still there. The Soviet system could never have survived, even if it functioned "perfectly".

      I'm sorry, I don't buy that. Russia != Soviet Union. Russia is a nation with a democratically-elected (albeit very corrupt, like Mexico) government. It's totally different from the Soviet Union. Yes, they share much of the same land area, and people, but the Soviet Union ceased to exist back in the early 1990s. Equating the two is a little bit like equating Italy and the Roman Empire, though the timescales are very different.

      The big difference with SU/Russia is that Russia dominated the Soviet Union, but it still was composed of many different parts: Belarus, Ukraine, Uzbekistan, Latvia, Estonia, etc., which are now separate countries. Obviously, the USA is a little different here, because we don't really have one region that dominates the union that way; power is concentrated in several different places, such as California, Texas, Washington DC (which would probably disappear as a center of power if the nation broke up), NYC, Chicago, etc.

      The Soviet system isn't the only one that can't survive, it's EVERY system. No government or political system on earth has ever survived indefinitely. They all fail at some point. Many times, they just get replaced with a different system, the borders stay more or less the same, some of the same people even regain power in the new system (while others get their heads chopped off), and life goes on. But empires don't usually work that way; they collapse and break apart. It's happened over and over in history: Rome, Ottomans, British, Soviets, and now Americans. Pretending we're extra-special is just naive and foolish, and the collapse of the USA is a complete certainty. Anyone who doesn't believe the USA will stop existing as a political power is a moronic fool. The only thing that can be sensibly argued is how long it will take, and what will come afterwards: will it be 5 years and followed by a bunch of separate republics, or will it be 200 years and followed by a benevolent global government (ha!). Or will it be one year followed by occupation by a foreign power, or 15 years followed by complete anarchy with most citizens turned into brain-eating zombies due to release of the "Rage" virus? Obviously, some of these are silly, but most people with their heads in the sand seem to think the 200-year one is more correct, and my contention is that the first prediction is more correct.

      The US system works very well, when you let it.

      Sorry, I don't see that. I see a dysfunctional, corrupt federal government, ridiculous debt, and many other systemic problems that aren't going to get fixed by saying "it works well if you let it!".

      The illusions I speak of... I'm talking about things like spending $15 when we have $10, and that sort of thing. That simply doesn't work, and eventually it will correct.

      I disagree. I don't see how it will be corrected, without destruction of the system, because the system is what causes that behavior to happen in the first place. The Romans had similar problems, and they certainly didn't "work things out", their empire collapsed. All empires tend towards collapse.

    162. Re:Oh, the Horseshit You Will Print! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Can we hav ou're nigger's back?"

      Hell yes, we sure don't want them!

    163. Re:Oh, the Horseshit You Will Print! by Coren22 · · Score: 1

      Perhaps you missed it, but the Democrats attempted to shut down the government as well. They were unable to come to an agreement about which budgets should be cut, and so almost caused the government to shut down.

      --
      APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
    164. Re:Oh, the Horseshit You Will Print! by Coren22 · · Score: 1

      Exactly, isn't California the state that has the issue of voting in spending increases without tax increases? They had a serious budget deficit last year, it was all over the news.

      --
      APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
    165. Re:Oh, the Horseshit You Will Print! by Nadaka · · Score: 1

      No. You are wrong. The idea that the debt limit increase was to be tied to budget cuts was an artificial construct of the republicans and tea partiers. They had no part in adding those to the issue.

      Saying the democrats attempted to shut down the government is like saying that someone is guilty of attempted murder when there is a terrorist holding 3 people hostage and he demands that you pick one that he will rape and murder and the other two go free, otherwise he will try to kill all three, and you fail to pick one. It is an idiotic assertion to blame the democrats for that.

  2. We'll go nowhere at this rate. by unity100 · · Score: 1, Interesting

    30 years ago all sorts of stuff was being predicted. space colonies this that. all we ended up has been a widening income/wealth inequality with those amassing wealth doing nothing with that wealth but letting it amass more wealth sitting in the banks. there is no way in hell we will have space elevators, this that, as long as the rich can make more money without making anything. why invest in a space elevator, why you can just let the money sit in hedge funds and let it become more money overnight, without considerable risk ... the only ones who will do these would be new internet-era entrepreneurs and rich boys like the ones who are investing in space x thingies etc now. and no way in hell their numbers and wealth can make these stuff come true in a way that would matter for the public.

    1. Re:We'll go nowhere at this rate. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They only thing that has changed in the past 30 years is wealth levels? Get that chip off your shoulder, and you can spend some time in the real world with the rest of us.

    2. Re:We'll go nowhere at this rate. by MetalliQaZ · · Score: 5, Insightful

      30 years ago all sorts of stuff was being predicted. space colonies this that. all we ended up has been a widening income/wealth inequality with those amassing wealth doing nothing with that wealth but letting it amass more wealth sitting in the banks. there is no way in hell we will have space elevators, this that, as long as the rich can make more money without making anything. why invest in a space elevator, why you can just let the money sit in hedge funds and let it become more money overnight, without considerable risk ... the only ones who will do these would be new internet-era entrepreneurs and rich boys like the ones who are investing in space x thingies etc now. and no way in hell their numbers and wealth can make these stuff come true in a way that would matter for the public.

      You have such a deep misunderstanding of the real world, I'm surprised you can manage to get food into your mouth to survive. The article summary seems to have triggered your "I AM THE 99%" response. However you don't seem to understand the nature of wealth. People like you sit back and complain that the rich have all their money in the bank, so there isn't any left for you. The reality is that weathy people invest their money to remain wealthy. What the hell do you think a hedge fund is? Like most investments, it puts the money to work.

      If a space elevator could ever be made profitably, those kinds of funds are the ones that would invest. Poor, aimless, unmotivated fools will never make it happen. No such venture was ever done for charity. Columbus was sponsored by the Portuguese crown in a search for wealth in trade routes. The Apollo program was sponsored by the USA so as to not fall behind in the USSR and risk the cold war. A space elevator represents a huge opportunity for wealth generation. You don't think greed would make it happen if it was possible? You're just plain wrong.

      -d

      --
      "Here Lies Philip J. Fry, named for his uncle, to carry on his spirit"
    3. Re:We'll go nowhere at this rate. by unity100 · · Score: 1, Troll

      The reality is that weathy people invest their money to remain wealthy. What the hell do you think a hedge fund is? Like most investments, it puts the money to work

      yes. in la la land. whereas in real world, they sit in hedge funds, or invested in operations that employ slave labor in china and import the stuff produced for dimes, to sell for dozens of dollars, making huge profits.

      you are the one who has no understanding of how real world works. you think life is as they depict in econ 101/102 books.

    4. Re:We'll go nowhere at this rate. by MetalliQaZ · · Score: 1

      And you miss the point. Space elevators would enable huge profits. Profits orders of magnitude larger than importing two-cent junk to America. If it was possible, they'd do it. Tell me, how does Virgin Galactic fit into your little world-view?

      -d

      --
      "Here Lies Philip J. Fry, named for his uncle, to carry on his spirit"
    5. Re:We'll go nowhere at this rate. by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      You sure told him.

      Hint: Your response makes no sense and confirms his statement about your 'misunderstanding of the real world'.

      Do you think money 'sits in hedge funds'? I'm surprised you can remember to breath in.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    6. Re:We'll go nowhere at this rate. by CRCulver · · Score: 3, Interesting

      And you miss the point. Space elevators would enable huge profits.

      That's uncertain. The discovery of the New World led to disaster for the economy of Iberia; the market simply couldn't hand the collapse in the price of metals.

      Tell me, how does Virgin Galactic fit into your little world-view?

      Virgin Galactic's goal is to send the exceedingly wealthy on suborbital flights for a thrill lasting a few minutes. It is not a good example of efforts to send mankind to the stars.

    7. Re:We'll go nowhere at this rate. by unity100 · · Score: 1

      yes it does. google 'high frequency trading'. and see how money makes money without going through the 'lend, invest, profit' cycle you thought it was going to.

    8. Re:We'll go nowhere at this rate. by unity100 · · Score: 2

      virgin galactic may or may not fit into my world view - but i can assure you it definitely does not fit into the world view of the wealthy investors, who are making much more money in high frequency trading automatically, than investing in virgin galactic et al and waiting them to turn a profit.

      https://www.google.com/search?sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=high+frequency+trading

    9. Re:We'll go nowhere at this rate. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He may not be eloquent, but he is correct. In the past, say about 40 years ago, we had something resembling reasonable amount of income equality. The CEO of a company would be paid 10-30 times the amount that a regular employee would. They would be rich, have fancy homes on multiple continents, private yachts and aeroplanes, that sort of stuff. Now the CEO is paid 200-500 times the regular employee pay. They have fancy homes on multiple continents, private yachts and aeroplanes, that sort of stuff. Their lifestyle has not changed all that much, ie. they are not employing a larger number of people (just how many staff do you need to tend your home or crew your boat?).

      Instead of using all that extra money, it goes into investments that are largely imaginary. A hedge fund provides employment for maybe a dozen people. Trading derivatives and options doesn't even put money into funding the creation of a company, like buying regular stock might. If this money was instead paid to the employees (as it was in the past), those middle-class individuals would be able to take advantage of the success of the company they work for (which used to be common). They could buy newer cars, better houses, all kinds of stuff that would keep our economy rolling along. In other words, a dollar paid to the workers would benefit the overall economy much more than a dollar paid to the CEO - and right now it's apparently perfectly acceptable to pay all the dollars to the CEO.

    10. Re:We'll go nowhere at this rate. by feepness · · Score: 1

      Wait, I'm confused. Is it sitting in hedge funds, or sitting in banks? Sitting in banks there's less risk, but rates are pretty poor. If it's in hedge funds there's risk, but you can make money.

      I just wanted to see if you could clear that up for me?

    11. Re:We'll go nowhere at this rate. by ceoyoyo · · Score: 1

      The hedge funds and lazy wealthy will end. These people have all gotten rich by lending (imaginary) money to poor people and then taking it away again. The only question is how exactly it will happen, and how many people will get shot.

    12. Re:We'll go nowhere at this rate. by Quiet_Desperation · · Score: 2

      It sits in giant vaults so Uncle Scrooge can swim in the coins.

    13. Re:We'll go nowhere at this rate. by HornWumpus · · Score: 3, Informative

      Just because someone holds a position for a second doesn't mean the money is not at risk and has not left the fund.

      Further hedge funds and high frequency trading rarely coincide. Money must be invested to earn returns. HFT doesn't change that.

      You clearly _don't_ understand and should stop embarrassing yourself until you learn some things.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    14. Re:We'll go nowhere at this rate. by Abreu · · Score: 2

      Sure, space elevators would enable huge profits, but the risk is too large and the cost of investment astronomical (pun intended) for a private entity.

      There's much safer investments here on earth for the 1%

      John Galt and his innovations only exist in the fevered imagination of randians...

      --
      No sig for the moment.
    15. Re:We'll go nowhere at this rate. by houghi · · Score: 1

      I am sure the BBC is aware that they are not actually are predicting the future. I am sure they are aware that it all will be wrong. It is just a fun excersize and it is even more fun to later read what came true and what not.

      It tells afterward more about the time the prediction was done then about the future.

      Bit like the flying car, walking on the moon and what not predicted in 1950 for the year 2000.

      --
      Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
    16. Re:We'll go nowhere at this rate. by Grishnakh · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Exactly. Building a space elevator, while I'm certain is completely possible from a technical point-of-view, would require an enormous amount of money, and it'd be a while before any profits are realized. Investors are very short-sighted; if they can't realize a profit in 3-5 years, then they have no interest.

    17. Re:We'll go nowhere at this rate. by wavedeform · · Score: 1

      Columbus was sponsored by the Portuguese crown in a search for wealth in trade routes.

      It was Spain, wasn't it?

    18. Re:We'll go nowhere at this rate. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Wow. Just... wow. Where do I start?
      I can make some assumptions based on your post, sir.
      1) You are not rich and you have never been in close, personal contact with people whose money comes not from work but from simply being born. These people are exactly as the parent post has said. They will never take risks with their money -- that's what OPM (Other People's Money) is for. They will wipe you out so long as there is no risk to them and they will never invest their fortunes in anything riskier than a sure thing.

      2) You are one of those insufferable people who listen to 'talk' radio with their brains turned off. Please stop doing this or at least cease parroting that drivel. It drives the rest of us insane.

      3) You have no grasp of investment strategies. Hedge Funds do not 'put the money to work'. Please learn something before speaking.

      4) You are a citizen of the USA. The USA is not now nor has it even been morally superior to any other nation. I would think that after wiping out the native North American populations the citizens of the USA would feel somewhat ashamed of their actions. This seems not to be the case. Also, the entire United States space program was an incredible duplication of work and if you had only worked with the USSR we could have all been there by '65. As it is neither country did as much with their efforts as we all could have done together.

      5) Finally, there is no way anyone in the USA who can afford to invest in a space elevator will do so. The USA is a nation owned and run by the rich and for the rich with that sham government you keep in place for sentimental reasons. I know it's easier for you to keep the proles in place if you convince them they have a voice in the government but the last 28 years has proven that to be a lie to anyone with ears and eyes. Letting people vote for their own executioner is just cruel. Stop it already.

      Please read this an stop being you. You annoy those of us with brains.

    19. Re:We'll go nowhere at this rate. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The reality is that wealthy people invest their money to remain wealthy.

      The reality is that "wealthy people do X" is as childishly simplistic as "poor people do X".

      Some wealthy people sometimes invest their money in projects which end up benefitting humankind. But there's a reason that the "ethical" funds always perform worse than those generating wealth from weaponry (which includes much of the "space race"), tobacco, gambling and information asymmetry (aka misrepresentation): it's much easier to gain wealth from exploiting or destroying your fellow man than through helping him.

      In the very long run it might be difficult to sustain the former, but each of us only live around 85 years so who cares? Wealthy people only need to remain wealthy for as long as they and perhaps their children are alive, and anyway - living in great luxury requires rather few millions, so it's likely that the money will last many more generations.

      In short, you speak like one of those basement libertarians who has no idea what it's like to be really rich: what it feels like to be part of old money; to be part of your nation's aristocracy. I do, and I can tell you one thing: it's fucking easy. I could keep all the money as banknotes in a well-insulated room and still have more than enough for another lifetime once I'm dead. Or I could plough it into the most exploitative third world development and arms funds and watch my money go from "more than I'll need" to "even more than that".

      One part of you really wants to tell me that you're talking about the productive rich, who got there through bla bla entrepreneur bla bla make great stuff to advance the world, although that part of you knows that this sort of person is in a very small minority. But underlying it all, what you really want is to be like me.

    20. Re:We'll go nowhere at this rate. by Bent+Mind · · Score: 2

      Columbus was sponsored by the Portuguese crown in a search for wealth in trade routes.

      You might want to revisit the history books on this one...

      Columbus was sponsored by Queen Isabella of Spain. There were several reasons for this sponsorship, though Columbus's personal wealth and power certainly came into play. At the time, the Ottomans and other Islamic nations controlled the trade routes to the east. Europe wanted the spices and medicines available in China. One of the hopeful outcomes was an allegiance with Murtada Khan of the Golden Horde. Murtada had expressed an interest in Christianity. With the recent defeat of the Moors in Spain and expulsion of the Jews, Spain was looking for new allies to continue the Christian assault on Islam and the capture of Jerusalem. Then too, I've also heard the rumor that King Ferdinand just wanted Columbus out of Spain so he would quit flirting with his wife. However, I've not found much to support this.

      Given the events of the time, I'd say that religion and politics were the primary motivators, with profitability being a nice side-effect.

      --
      Request a Linux Shockwave player here: http://www.macromedia.com/support/email/wishform/
    21. Re:We'll go nowhere at this rate. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think the extremely wealthy liken the space elevator to the Joker's burning that huge pile of money in the last batman movie. They won't get the profits for it, baring obscene scientific advances in materials sciences and construction, it'd be a couple of generations. Find a Petroleum Planet nearby or some kind of confirmed intelligent life that "loves Jesus too" and we'll get there a little faster. If that intelligent life doesn't "love Jesus", we might get there faster still, via war.

    22. Re:We'll go nowhere at this rate. by definate · · Score: 2

      Precisely, my good man! The automobile is nothing but a play thing for the rich, and such a foray shall never result in an improvement of the technology, nor greater economies of scale, nor any other positive externality.

      --
      This is my footer. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
    23. Re:We'll go nowhere at this rate. by CRCulver · · Score: 1

      The point is that the longterm benefits of a technology might not suffice to attract investment if the shorter term looks more grim.

    24. Re:We'll go nowhere at this rate. by definate · · Score: 1

      It is impossible to say either way, everyone is both prudent and reckless with their money, such that we can't say which way they would go. However, given there's already Virgin Galactic, and every second day we read articles about other people doing the same, we can see it's going in a positive direction. Additionally, the more spending these people make, increases the likelihood that this industry will gain momentum, and it could be the start of a dramatic change for us in space.

      Unfortunately, you cannot look at it rationally, as there is no rational position which isn't confounded with bias.

      We don't know where it will go, but hopefully it will be somewhere awesome.

      --
      This is my footer. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
    25. Re:We'll go nowhere at this rate. by silverpig · · Score: 1

      You should listen to Neil deGrasse Tyson's interview on the Nerdist podcast. He disagrees with you. Ventures like the first space elevator will never be funded by profit-seeking people because the risks are too high. Columbus was funded by ... the government The moon landing was funded by ... the government It was research for research's sake. To see if we could do it, and then to figure out what to do with it once we did it (still haven't come up with an answer for the moon on that one). The private sector may build the 2nd space elevator, and the 2nd orbiting space base from the space elevator, but not the 1st.

    26. Re:We'll go nowhere at this rate. by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      This is exactly why we need much more research into life-extension methods and treatments. If the extremely wealthy could expect to live to 2-300 years of age or more, then they'd take a much longer-term view of things.

    27. Re:We'll go nowhere at this rate. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The shortsightedness is greatly exaggerated. The fact that stocks trade at 10x PE (or more) means people are pricing 10+ years of earnings into the stock. A really good example is privatized infrastructure like toll roads (the salient feature being highly predictable revenues), where decades of profits are factored in when the private sector bids for it.

      I think the shortsightedness myth comes from the risk premium that's used. Once you factor in time value of money, and take a cut to reflect the risk you're taking, yes, the first few years are the most important driver. But that's not the same as shortsighted.

    28. Re:We'll go nowhere at this rate. by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      What the hell do you think a hedge fund is? Like most investments, it puts the money to work.

      It's a gambling fund. Investment funds are growth or income investments. Hedge funds are investments that are designed to grow when traditional investments fail. Hedging bets is where the word came from. A gambling term. You invest that a stock (or stock market) will increase in value and decrease in value at the same time. Like betting on red and black at the same time. You will *always* win (getting back your bet) unless it lands on green. Money doesn't "work" That's an invention of a term by the 1% to pretend they are something other than leaches. Money has value. Renting money is what is going on. But if you rent a car to someone, they can accidentally (or purposefully) break it. Some of the same things can happen with money rental. It makes sense to rent out a house you aren't living in, as it will be worth less via depreciation if you don't, so you might as well rent it for income to offset that and get income. The same is true with money. If you put it in your matress, it'll be worth less later than now, but if you rent it to someone, then they'll pay you for that. But that's not "work."

    29. Re:We'll go nowhere at this rate. by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      The Apollo program was sponsored by the USA so as to not fall behind in the USSR and risk the cold war.

      And did the Apollo program made a profit?

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    30. Re:We'll go nowhere at this rate. by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      And you miss the point. Space elevators would enable huge profits. Profits orders of magnitude larger than importing two-cent junk to America. If it was possible, they'd do it. Tell me, how does Virgin Galactic fit into your little world-view?

      -d

      How do you know what profits a space elevator would generate? What are the costs of construction and maintenance against the projected incoming cashflows? How much trade would it enable? How much would tourists be prepared to pay?

      It's not like saying "if someone invested in discovering a source of unlimited free energy the profits would be huge" as that is self evident.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    31. Re:We'll go nowhere at this rate. by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      Precisely, my good man! The automobile is nothing but a play thing for the rich, and such a foray shall never result in an improvement of the technology, nor greater economies of scale, nor any other positive externality.

      You're going to have to try a lot harder than that to get people to invest in your space elevator corporation.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    32. Re:We'll go nowhere at this rate. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But underlying it all, what you really want is to be like me.

      Ah, Mitt Romney's politics of envy. I don't know about the original poster you are responding to, but as for me, no, I don't want to be like you. I'll make my way in life on my own merits and believe that even man and woman should do the same.

      IMHO, the time of aristocracy is long past. That's a lot of what the Arab spring and Occupy movement are about. It's time for America and the world to become the meritocracy of the American Dream fairy tale.

    33. Re:We'll go nowhere at this rate. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You really are clueless about finance aren't you? I think you've been beating the drums a little too long.

    34. Re:We'll go nowhere at this rate. by urusan · · Score: 1

      What happened in Iberia is not the same as what would happen with asteroid mining and such. Gold isn't all that inherently useful, especially at that time, so most of its value came from its rarity...so when the rarity was gone all that was left was nearly worthless hunks of metal.

      Better analogies would be iron and aluminum. Large scale mining and refining of these metals destroyed their prices (aluminum was more valuable than gold during the time of Napoleon)...but despite the lower prices, they still made lasting fortunes for those involved because they were in constant demand for their useful properties. Further, the average person benefitted from the lower costs of these metals and the products and projects they made possible. Win-win

    35. Re:We'll go nowhere at this rate. by Rakarra · · Score: 1

      This is exactly why we need much more research into life-extension methods and treatments.

      That's fucking crazy.

      If the extremely wealthy could expect to live to 2-300 years of age or more, then they'd take a much longer-term view of things

      Maybe... even fucking crazy enough to work. Oh god, I can't believe I'm considering that as a positive. >_

  3. Temples of Syrinx by tedgyz · · Score: 4, Funny

    We will find a guitar, but it will be destroyed by the priests, declaring it is a "silly whim".

    --
    "No matter where you go, there you are." -- Buckaroo Banzai
    1. Re:Temples of Syrinx by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Only if you sell it to them using Paypal.

    2. Re:Temples of Syrinx by SJHillman · · Score: 1

      Attention all planets of the Solar Federation, the RIAA has assumed control.

    3. Re:Temples of Syrinx by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      RE: your title:

      In a few years: "Syrinx? Is that the voice from the iPhone?"

    4. Re:Temples of Syrinx by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Rush, 2112!

      Bad day... Wow, I needed that!

      Thanks!!!

  4. hell by unity100 · · Score: 1

    Check it out - we narrowly averted sopa, there is still pipa. those who command the wealth at the top are not hesitant in preventing anything that would harm their own self-interest. they even went as far to create a law that would break the biggest invention of the recent decades - the internet - for that end.

    can you say that you can go to space, elevators and private space industry, space colonies etc, in such an environment ? and dont get me started on the whole patent thing.

  5. I call Jetsons by TheSpoom · · Score: 1

    It's like shenanigans but for future predictions beyond the thirty year mark, which are bullshit by definition.

    --
    It's better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.
    - E. Debs
    1. Re:I call Jetsons by dougmc · · Score: 1

      By definition? Um, no.

      Predictions that are for a future 30+ years now are often wrong, yes, but they're not wrong "by definition". (And occasionally they're right!)

    2. Re:I call Jetsons by TheSpoom · · Score: 1

      I didn't say wrong. I said bullshit. Being right by coincidence doesn't make them better, and you'll have a hard time convincing me that predictions at such a long time span are anything but.

      --
      It's better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.
      - E. Debs
    3. Re:I call Jetsons by dougmc · · Score: 1

      My point wasn't really about the effectiveness of future predictions. It was more about your choice of words.

      Saying "X is Y by definition" means that I should be able to open a dictionary, look up X, and find that it says Y. Or if it's in a mathematical sense, it should at least be one of the givens, and then used to determine something.

      People seem to use "by definition" as some sort of declaration of absolute, undeniable truth -- when it certainly isn't, not in the way that many people use the term.

      In the same vein, when somebody says "it literally blew my mind" ... their mind should be blown all over the wall.

    4. Re:I call Jetsons by TheSpoom · · Score: 1

      Fair enough. I also try to avoid using "literally" where something isn't literal, but I'll try to watch my usage here too.

      --
      It's better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.
      - E. Debs
  6. California wants to split off by nurb432 · · Score: 1

    CYA!

    ( like the feds would ever let that happen anyway )

    --
    ---- Booth was a patriot ----
    1. Re:California wants to split off by Mashiki · · Score: 4, Insightful

      From a canuck pov, California is a lot like Quebec. Both have large debts, highly self-inflated opinions of themselves, and have a highly convoluted parasitic nature with both the federal government and other states/provinces. If they went up and left, they'd be in a crash bankruptcy within 2 years, and be begging to come back, as their own entitlement programs would cause them to collapse from within. As it stands now, their own entitlement programs are causing them to collapse from within.

      --
      Om, nomnomnom...
    2. Re:California wants to split off by mr1911 · · Score: 1

      The feds don't have to worry. California is in worse fiscal condition than the Federal government -- they can't afford to break off.

      In the event they do decide to break off, I am the first to bid them good riddance.

      --
      This post comes with a double-your-money-back guarantee!
      Any offense taken to this post is at your sole discretion.
    3. Re:California wants to split off by vlm · · Score: 1, Insightful

      ( like the feds would ever let that happen anyway )

      What if all the middle class moved out, leaving no one left in CA but the illegals and some very rich folks. Basically it would be much like Cancun, a Mexican village with a bunch of resorts on the coast and the vacation homes of a couple rich people. I could see it happening because its not far from it now.

      Now we'd probably demand some "foreign" military bases... Also I don't think we'd give up seattle without a fight, need a pacific ocean seaport.

      Wait until after the really big city leveling earthquake and we're given the choice of giving it back to .mx in exchange for a bunch of oil, or keeping a majority spanish speaking state out of rebellion with no oil and a trillion dollar price tag to rebuild after the earthquake.

      Another possible crisis point would probably be when the aquifer empties in CA, that means no more agriculture.

      What happens when Vegas runs out of water will be another interesting crisis point, a lot depends on refugees evacuating east or evacuating west.

      Either that, or peak oil declines and narco-state politics finally completely collapse .mx, so we end up taking over .mx as a humanitarian gesture if nothing else, leading to new "US States". Basically a really large Puerto Rico.

      One way or another CA and .mx are politically merging "relatively soon" like within my kids lifetime.

      --
      "Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
    4. Re:California wants to split off by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

      Oops. Your conservative is showing.

      California is the 8th largest economy in the world. Period. It would be a world power on it's own.
      California would do quite well on it's own given it's natural resources and it's western US shipping ports.
      California sees less return on federal dollars than is taken in taxes. (Who's the parasite, again?)
      California's population and land size give it country sized problems with state sized control and funds.

    5. Re:California wants to split off by Kenja · · Score: 5, Informative

      Actually, California gets less back from the federal government then we pay out. We would be in much better financial shape if we didn't have to subsidize other states.

      --

      "Have you ever thought about just turning off the TV, sitting down with your kids, and hitting them?"
    6. Re:California wants to split off by Kenja · · Score: 2

      What if all the middle class moved out

      Both of them?

      --

      "Have you ever thought about just turning off the TV, sitting down with your kids, and hitting them?"
    7. Re:California wants to split off by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But California and Quebec have considerable resources (California oil, Quebec hydropower). Collapse is all but assured for California, but as long as the northeast United States refuses to build new power plants Quebec will be... ok.

    8. Re:California wants to split off by Nadaka · · Score: 4, Interesting

      No. Actually.

      California is having budget issues mostly because the federal government is raping it, so that its wealth can be redistributed to Republican owned southern and midwestern states. Californians pay far more in federal tax than they receive back in federal benefits. If California was on its own and took those federal taxes itself, its debt would be gone almost immediately.

    9. Re:California wants to split off by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Y'know, the fact that you're so grossly wrong about California makes me think you're just as misinformed about Quebec.

      Economically, California is doing fine, and no, it doesn't have a problem with spending. It has a problem with tax collection. See, it has this old proposition that was done by the "public" to artificially limit how property taxes are applied.

      If they seceded, they'd have to get past that self-imposed hamstringing, but they'd have a relatively high amount of slack, given how they pay more into the federal coffers than they get back, so even with the replacement spending, they'd be rather more flexible.

    10. Re:California wants to split off by hawguy · · Score: 2

      Actually, California gets less back from the federal government then we pay out. We would be in much better financial shape if we didn't have to subsidize other states.

      This infographic says that California gets back 78 cents of every dollar paid to the federal government. Only 7 states have a lower ratio.

      http://visualizingeconomics.com/2010/02/17/federal-taxes-paidreceived-for-each-state/

    11. Re:California wants to split off by gnick · · Score: 1

      Also I don't think we'd give up seattle without a fight, need a pacific ocean seaport.

      Unless there's a MAJOR seismic event causing massive geometric shift, I don't think that a California cessation would have much effect on Seattle remaining within the US political boundaries... It's something like 500 miles away.

      --
      He's getting rather old, but he's a good mouse.
    12. Re:California wants to split off by ScentCone · · Score: 3, Funny

      But the real question is, does California have what it takes to correct its massive apostrophe abuse problem? Or is that one inflicted on them by the Feds?

      --
      Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
    13. Re:California wants to split off by Baloroth · · Score: 2, Interesting

      California sees less return on federal dollars than is taken in taxes.

      Really? You mean the government can't give out more money to the states than it takes in in taxes... oh right, I suppose it does that all the time.

      California has a whopping 12.5% unemployment, and managed to double their state spending in 10 years. Let me repeat that: double, from 1998 to 2008. One does not have to be a conservative to realize that California has a spending problem. Everyone there realizes it. One of the highest tax rates in the country, and they still can't find enough money.

      --
      "None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license." --John Milton
    14. Re:California wants to split off by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I just said "cessation" didn't I... Umm... "secession".

      It sounded right in my head...

      -gnick

    15. Re:California wants to split off by HornWumpus · · Score: 2

      Just like Quebec, CA would split very shortly after leaving the union.

      S. Cal would be completely dry. (USA would take the rest of the CO river for Vegas. N. Cal would shut down the ditch. Owens valley might have something to say as well.)

      Perhaps Mexico will take S. Cal. They can have it.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    16. Re:California wants to split off by mr1911 · · Score: 1

      That's fantastic. Let's see... removing the federal tax burden will allow California to eliminate it's current debt in, well, never.

      California's fiscal problems are not due to the Federal government.

      --
      This post comes with a double-your-money-back guarantee!
      Any offense taken to this post is at your sole discretion.
    17. Re:California wants to split off by Baloroth · · Score: 0

      No, they have budget issues because they doubled their state budget from 1998 to 2008, from $58 billion to $131 billion. Much of it on government employees, who often make/made triple digit salaries (sometimes $200,000).

      --
      "None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license." --John Milton
    18. Re:California wants to split off by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      California is having budget issues mostly because the federal government is raping it, so that its wealth can be redistributed to Republican owned southern and midwestern states. Californians pay far more in federal tax than they receive back in federal benefits. If California was on its own and took those federal taxes itself, its debt would be gone almost immediately.

      There is just so much wrong with this statement that it hurts to think about it.

      1. Do you know for sure how much of California's state budget goes to the federal government? I do. It is $0. No state pays the federal government for anything (except for fines for various things). State governments haven't paid the federal government since the Articles of Confederation. This is a fact.

      2. Ah yes. Those dastardly Republicans! Why just yesterday I got my Form 1040 package in the mail, and the instructions clearly have me paying income tax at a higher rate because I live in a blue state.

      3. On the whole, California takes in far more in federal benefits than it pays in federal tax. Unlike your analysis, which excludes broad categories of welfare spending, I look at gross flows of funds.

      4. You know what? Be our guest and break away. But I should insist on a caveat: If California does break away, it stays out on its own for a minimum of 25 years. No coming back in six months.

      I have to say the ignorance level on slashdot is simply astounding. It is great and wonderful that many people here are liberal. But that doesn't excuse the sheer amount of ignorance that is flooding this site, and what I characterize as "ignorance" is "people are just factually wrong," not "people have opinions different than mine." And it is just basic things, like who pays what in our federal system of government. When was basic civics kicked out of education?

    19. Re:California wants to split off by thetoadwarrior · · Score: 1

      Exactly. The redneck states want to scare California into not doing it because they will be infinitely more successful without the southern states dragging them down. They'll have to build a fence along the eastern border though.

    20. Re:California wants to split off by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As a Quebecer, I can say that I don't like the idea of separation. In case people think that we all have the same opinion.

    21. Re:California wants to split off by roman_mir · · Score: 1

      Of-course it is. You are forgetting that the State is competing for the same tax base that the federal government is taxing, so it's completely false to say that the problems of States that pay federal taxes cannot be solved by getting rid of those taxes. Once the federal taxes are abolished, then it's up to the State either to reduce spending or to tax more, and given that the people will see much more of their money in their own pockets that the federal gov't didn't steal, they can be persuaded to pay down the State debt in exchange for reduction in spending.

    22. Re:California wants to split off by R3d+M3rcury · · Score: 1

      Well, California (the country) would be able to correct it's apostrophe abuse problems by just mandating that it's use of apostrophes is correct. It's that damn Federal Government and their Department of Grammar Nazis (part of the Department of Education) that make it difficult for California to do this.

    23. Re:California wants to split off by rubycodez · · Score: 1

      no, california can't stand on its own, imports a third of it's electricity and 90% of it's water. Funny 20% of it's electricity comes from two nuke plants, if Californians were smart they'd build a few more of those things and be energy and water independent (yes, a nuke plant can make fresh water). but instead they waste money and real estate on low energy density "solutions" that don't produce much power and aren't really that "green" anyway.

    24. Re:California wants to split off by Kenja · · Score: 1

      Lets see, CA state deficit is 13 billion. We pay an estimated 100 billion a year to the Federal government and get back around 78 billion in services. By my math that leaves 9 billion left over for us to waste somehow.

      --

      "Have you ever thought about just turning off the TV, sitting down with your kids, and hitting them?"
    25. Re:California wants to split off by twotacocombo · · Score: 1

      Except for the fact that California would be left completely defenseless against foreign aggression. Yeah, I'm pretty sure Uncle Sam won't let us keep all those shiny boats and planes after we break away. What's the cost of forming a new multi-branch fighting force from scratch these days? Not to mention the economic catastrophe that would occur to certain towns that rely on the newly abandoned local military base. And lets not get started on our replacements for SSI and medicare, importation of water and food from a now-foreign and probably a little butthurt country, maintaining security on the new 1000+ miles of border...

      Sure we may not currently get back as much from the Feds as we send them, but the real benefit in sticking around is all the things that are already in place and paid for. Taking things for granted, like security and open borders between states, is foolish.

    26. Re:California wants to split off by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      California is the 8th largest economy in the world. Period. It would be a world power on it's own.

      Like France, Italy and Russia?

      France and Russia certainly both qualify as world powers. Not superpowers but world powers, sure. Italy is borderline.

    27. Re:California wants to split off by slimjim8094 · · Score: 5, Informative

      You completely miss the point. California, and most of the "blue" states, are "giver" states - their citizens and businesses pay more in federal tax (income and otherwise) than they receive back as services. California receives $0.78 (in things like highway dollars and education) per dollar of tax paid. source. For fun, compare "red" states with "blue" states. About 75% of Bush and Gore's electoral votes came from taker and giver states, respectively.

      The GP's point was that if those 25c no longer "left" the state, California would be better off.

      The best part was you complaining about ignorance and being "factually wrong".

      --
      I have developed a truly marvelous proof of this comment, which this signature is too narrow to contain.
    28. Re:California wants to split off by andymadigan · · Score: 1

      Let's say we take all taxes paid by California residents (natural and legal persons) to the Federal government, and instead shift it to the state government. Now, let's take away all federal spending in the state of California, both intergovernmental revenue and federal employees: the state comes out ahead, effectively Californians pay a chunk of their tax dollars to the federal government, which then funnels it to states that don't tax their citizens enough to pay for government services.

      The state government doesn't pay taxes to the feds, but the resdent of CA do.

      --
      The right to protest the State is more sacred than the State.
    29. Re:California wants to split off by artor3 · · Score: 3, Informative

      Yeah, don't bother looking up the statistics or anything. Just make a sarcastic comment to insinuate you know what you're talking about.

      In 2005, California paid $290 billion in taxes and received $240 billion in federal spending. California's deficit currently stands at $11 billion. Now, I'm no mathematician, but I'm pretty sure 290 - 240 > 11.

    30. Re:California wants to split off by ZigMonty · · Score: 1

      California is having budget issues mostly because the federal government is raping it, so that its wealth can be redistributed to Republican owned southern and midwestern states. Californians pay far more in federal tax than they receive back in federal benefits. If California was on its own and took those federal taxes itself, its debt would be gone almost immediately.

      There is just so much wrong with this statement that it hurts to think about it.

      1. Do you know for sure how much of California's state budget goes to the federal government? I do. It is $0. No state pays the federal government for anything (except for fines for various things). State governments haven't paid the federal government since the Articles of Confederation. This is a fact.

      That may be a fact (I'm an Aussie, what do i know), but it doesn't address what he said. His claim was that if you took all the federal taxes the people and companies in california currently pay and instead gave it to the newly created national government of california, it'd be better placed financially than it is now. He never said the state itself paid money to the federal government. The contention is that there is a net outflow of money from california (taxes paid vs benefits received). If this is the case, then it sorta does make sense for California to break away. In financial terms anyway.

    31. Re:California wants to split off by dgatwood · · Score: 4, Insightful

      1. Do you know for sure how much of California's state budget goes to the federal government? I do. It is $0. No state pays the federal government for anything (except for fines for various things). State governments haven't paid the federal government since the Articles of Confederation. This is a fact.

      First, the GP said nothing about the state budget.

      Second, that's a perfect example of the broken window fallacy. The citizens pay the Federal Government, and in so doing, give it money that cannot be spent for other things. The correct question is how much the citizens of California as a whole send to the federal government versus the amount that the federal government sends back. The answer to that is "a lot more", with the sole exception of the last couple of years (in which California has gotten more than it sent in, but so has every other state). In most years, California gets back somewhere in the ballpark of eighty cents for every dollar it sends to the feds.

      2. Ah yes. Those dastardly Republicans! Why just yesterday I got my Form 1040 package in the mail, and the instructions clearly have me paying income tax at a higher rate because I live in a blue state.

      Again, the amount is immaterial. What's important is the cost-benefit ratio. The blue states, on the average, get far less benefit for their federal tax dollars than the red states. This is fairly well established and can be trivially proven by examining the numbers.

      Unless, of course, you consider the security benefits. Consider how the wide difference in wealth between the U.S. and Mexico has caused serious safety problems near our Southern border. Now consider what would happen if the Southern U.S. were similarly poor because California stopped propping them up. And that is why the argument of California getting less out than it puts in falls flat—not because it isn't true from a purely numbers point of view, but rather because there are unquantifiable externalities that the argument fails to take into account.

      On the whole, California takes in far more in federal benefits than it pays in federal tax. Unlike your analysis, which excludes broad categories of welfare spending, I look at gross flows of funds.

      That's grossly incorrect.

      --

      Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

    32. Re:California wants to split off by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Again, count *all* federal income and *all* federal expenditures. Your source doesn't, sorry. A more complete analysis shows California to be a net receiver, and otherwise the distinction between red and blue states becomes less pronounced (but the general trend is in favor of blue, granted).

      The best part was you complaining about ignorance and being "factually wrong".

      I do apologize, but I will not be withdrawing my assertion. You really only addressed one of my points by repeating the same flawed analysis.

    33. Re:California wants to split off by techhead79 · · Score: 1

      California is the 8th largest economy in the world. Period. It would be a world power on it's own.

      What do you think breaking away from the union would do to that economy? All US related traffic would be rerouted to OR and WA. Oh right what about silicon valley? Is that in Northern or Southern Cali?

      California would do quite well on it's own given it's natural resources and it's western US shipping ports.

      And the US would do quite well making Seattle the cheapest port on the western coast and increasing the cost of energy. How do you think those natural resources will fare when they have to get through US customs imports now on the easter border of the CA?

      California sees less return on federal dollars than is taken in taxes. (Who's the parasite, again?)

      Well a federal government doesn't exist without the union of the states after all.

      California's population and land size give it country sized problems with state sized control and funds.

      How many people would leave the state because they want to be a part of America? How many new interested parties would suddenly move in to seize control.

      This is of course ignoring the fact that if CA actually survived on its own for more than six months the US would invade and force them back into the Union. And if you think the increase in troops after 9/11 was impressive wait till states start to leave the Union again.

      face it, separation and lack of compromise is moving us backward in time. If CA leaves the Union then honestly humanity fails at having any form of society. This is why the current state of Congress is such bullshit. If you can not compromise in a society then you have no part of being in it. I'd just hope the idiots that elected those into the House realize how fucked up they made the system and vote them out.

    34. Re:California wants to split off by ceoyoyo · · Score: 3, Informative

      As a Canadian currently living in Quebec... I don't think you're right. California seems to be reasonably productive, at least compared to the rest of the US. It has a large debt, but so does the rest of the country. I believe they even pay out more in taxes than they take in from the feds.

      Quebec on the other hand has always been a gimme province, has a population who prefer not to work all that hard (not saying there's anything wrong with that, provided you can pay for it yourself) and systemic corruption levels FAR above the rest of Canada. They're also isolationist, and anti-English, which can't help when all your neighbours and potential trading partners are English speaking countries.

      Quebec can't even keep their bridges and highways from falling apart, and that's WITH subsidies from the rest of the country. California has excellent highways.

    35. Re:California wants to split off by jackpot777 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      According to the libertarian (and Koch-funded) Tax Foundation, California has paid more into federal coffers than it has taken in federal spending since 1986 ( http://www.taxfoundation.org/research/show/22685.html page 5). And its share that it has given has grown in relation to the amount that it has taken.

      There are eighteen states that actually pay their own way, or better, according to the latest data they have collected

      ( http://www.taxfoundation.org/research/show/266.html they're in the process of collecting funds for an updated look at more recent numbers). Seventeen of those states went for Obama / Biden in 2008.

      One does not have to be a conservative to pass judgment on states leeching government money, but it helps perhaps to be in one when 94.4% of the states that do pay their own way went Democratic in the last Presidential election.

      The question is therefore not "why is California spending so much more?", but why are the Red States outstripping California's spending with nothing to back up THEIR leeching ways, playing bootstrappy cowboy at the expense of people in LA, New York, Chicago, etc.?

      --
      Shiny. Let's be bad guys...
    36. Re:California wants to split off by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I have to say the ignorance level on slashdot is simply astounding

      You mean yours? Because you're completely wrong and acting like you're right, moron.

    37. Re:California wants to split off by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Ever hear of something called the National Guard? They've got uniforms, guns, even tanks and planes. And despite the name, it's actually a state militia under control of the state's governor.

      And since California's a state, they've got one of these.

      Besides, who's going to invade? Mexico? Get real.

    38. Re:California wants to split off by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, red states tend to receive more in federal funding than they pay collectively in taxes by an overwhelming margin. Everyone talks about east and west coast liberals being a minority, but they actually subsidize flyover country with their tax dollars.

    39. Re:California wants to split off by jtroy92 · · Score: 1

      California currently pays 60 billion dollars a year more to the federal government than they get back in federal spending. That's three times their current budget deficit, or a net outflow of $2000 per year from every man, woman and child in the state. If there's a parasite here, it's the federal government and other states.

      You might do well to brush up on some facts:
      http://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_blog/2004/09/red_states_feed.html

      California is birthplace and home to giants like HP, Intel, AMD, Apple, Google, Cisco, EA, NVIDIA, Genentech, Lucasfilm, etc in the north, and Disney, Universal, MGM, Paramount, Warner Bros, United Artists, etc in the south. They're the capital of the tech world, the capital of the entertainment world, and the largest producer and exporter of food in the United States. The US needs them more than they need the US.

      Unlike Quebec, nobody in California talks about secession. That's nothing other than sensationalist trash to sell papers. But if any state could secede from the US and remain a 1st rate powerhouse in this world, it would be California.

    40. Re:California wants to split off by indeterminator · · Score: 1

      Except for the fact that California would be left completely defenseless against foreign aggression. Yeah, I'm pretty sure Uncle Sam won't let us keep all those shiny boats and planes after we break away.

      Yeah, I'm sure that the remainder of the U.S. would just let China or Russia to take over independent California and not lift a finger.

      Or then again, maybe not.

    41. Re:California wants to split off by mr1911 · · Score: 1

      I am not arguing that states would not be better off without the federal tax burden. I am merely pointing out that assuming California state spending will not explode if federal taxes were removed is about as foolish as thinking the federal government will stop spending because they are facing a record deficit.

      The arguments are all moot anyway. California isn't going anywhere. Unless the big earthquake finally knocks it off -- there is hope.

      --
      This post comes with a double-your-money-back guarantee!
      Any offense taken to this post is at your sole discretion.
    42. Re:California wants to split off by SleazyRidr · · Score: 1

      Looks like everyone else has torn you a new one over factual accuracy, so I'm just going to single out one of your points to rebutt:

      3. On the whole, California takes in far more in federal benefits than it pays in federal tax. Unlike your analysis, which excludes broad categories of welfare spending, I look at gross flows of funds.

      As neither of you actually provided a source, on what basis are you claiming that Nadaka's analysis does not include "broad categories of welfare spending" and would you please elaborate on what these are. Also, I would be interested to see your analysis which "look[s] at gross flow of funds."

    43. Re:California wants to split off by Mashiki · · Score: 1

      Oops. Your conservative is showing.

      California is the 8th largest economy in the world. Period. It would be a world power on it's own.
      California would do quite well on it's own given it's natural resources and it's western US shipping ports.
      California sees less return on federal dollars than is taken in taxes. (Who's the parasite, again?)
      California's population and land size give it country sized problems with state sized control and funds.

      You mean oops my reality bias is showing?

      Canada has a smaller population, and is somewhere between 7th and 10th in the worlds largest economies last time I looked.
      Environmentalists ensure that california doesn't do anything with their 'natural resources' this is why they import a glut of what they use. And funny enough, they're trying the same in Canada.
      If that was true, they wouldn't be have a ~370b debt as it stands now.
      Canada has an excess of land and still has country and 'state' sized problems which it seems to be able to deal with effectively and well. Remember in Canadaland, territories and anything that the provinces don't deal with is the jurisdiction of the feds. That means ~60-70% of the country is run by the crown, or a crown overlay of some type with provincial representation. Remember that big economic crash a couple of years ago? I hear you guys are still a pretty tough spot. Not so much up here.

      --
      Om, nomnomnom...
    44. Re:California wants to split off by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You know other countries import foreign power and water? This includes the US, as various states have agreements with Canadian provinces.

    45. Re:California wants to split off by roman_mir · · Score: 1

      Don't be so sure that California isn't going anywhere. The federal gov't is becoming more and more dictatorial, the US wasn't built with people who love dictators.

    46. Re:California wants to split off by glodime · · Score: 1

      3. On the whole, California takes in far more in federal benefits than it pays in federal tax. Unlike your analysis, which excludes broad categories of welfare spending, I look at gross flows of funds.

      Do you have a link to the reports or data that supports this? I'd like to see it.

    47. Re:California wants to split off by Jhon · · Score: 1

      That says "federal spending". Does that include Social Security payments? Welfare? Medicaid? Per person in that state? I think the numbers would dramatically shift if that were included...

    48. Re:California wants to split off by ragahast · · Score: 4, Informative

      California sees less return on federal dollars than is taken in taxes. (Who's the parasite, again?)
      You sure about that? Hint: look at all the Federal expenditures in California, including welfare.

      Yes, we are sure. Our federal tax imbalance is similar in size to our budget deficit.
      You could at least base your claims on logic and numbers instead of emotion and expectations.

      [1] 2009 Tax Burden Report
      [2] 2006 Tax Burden Report
      [3] Tax burden by state, 1981-2005
      [4] California 2011-12 Budget Outlook

      --
      .:Semper Absurda:.
    49. Re:California wants to split off by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      What do you think breaking away from the union would do to that economy? All US related traffic would be rerouted to OR and WA.

      In a hypothetical CA break-away situation, WA and OR would be smart to go with CA, since between the three of them, they control much of the world's tech economy. Are they going to route all the US traffic through Vancouver, or Mexico? (Actually, they're already routing a lot of US traffic through Mexico.)

      How many people would leave the state because they want to be a part of America?

      Not many. Most people there seem to like it, from what I've seen on my trips there: good weather, good economy, lots of jobs, etc. You're not going to see everyone start moving out of Silicon Valley and abandoning their high-paying jobs at tech companies there so they can go live around corn fields in the midwest and drive around with 49-star American flags on their pickups. Heck, a lot of the people in California (particularly tech workers) aren't even American by birth; they go where the jobs and the money are. They're all there for the same reason there's tons of non-natives in places like Hong Kong, Singapore, and Dubai.

    50. Re:California wants to split off by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      90% of it's water? Bullshit.

      California is more then LA and SanDiago.

      Have you ever been to CA? You clearly don't know what you are talking about.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    51. Re:California wants to split off by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      1. Do you know for sure how much of California's state budget goes to the federal government? I do. It is $0. No state pays the federal government for anything (except for fines for various things). State governments haven't paid the federal government since the Articles of Confederation. This is a fact.

      Very dumb. If California were to break away, do you really think all its residents would continue to pay Federal income tax to Washington? No, California will just increase its own state (now national) income tax to make up for the shortfall.

    52. Re:California wants to split off by ragahast · · Score: 1

      Do you have a link to the reports or data that supports this? I'd like to see it.

      I doubt they will be forthcoming. As you've probably already found, the data simply does not support those claims.

      2009 Special Report
      2006 Special Report
      Tax burdens by state, 1981-2005

      --
      .:Semper Absurda:.
    53. Re:California wants to split off by ragahast · · Score: 1

      It's best when one chooses to support one's claims with quantitative facts rather than emotion and ideology. If the numbers agreed with you, I would too. But they don't.

      Tax burden report, 2006
      Tax burden report, 2009
      Tax burdens by state, 1981-2005
      California 2011-12 Budeget Outlook

      --
      .:Semper Absurda:.
    54. Re:California wants to split off by twotacocombo · · Score: 1

      Yeah, I'm sure that the remainder of the U.S. would just let China or Russia to take over independent California and not lift a finger.

      Or then again, maybe not.

      Well, an attack on California would only make sense as a pretext for invading the rest of North America, sure. The remaining 49 states of America would most likely come to our defense, if for nothing more than their own self interests. But it still makes absolutely no sense for a nation, especially one that sits so close to Mexico's drug trade/violence, to have no means of effectively securing it's borders.

    55. Re:California wants to split off by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Can you please post the same flawed analysis a few more times? Maybe if you post them enough they are suddenly true.

    56. Re:California wants to split off by PCM2 · · Score: 0

      Canada has a smaller population, and is somewhere between 7th and 10th in the worlds largest economies last time I looked.

      Canada is 11th last time I looked. Canada's GDP per capita is $40,000. California's GDP per capita is $52,000. So Canada's population produces less economic value than California's, despite the fact that Canada occupies an area 24 times larger than California. If Canada is so much better at capitalizing on its natural resources than California is, as you imply, you'd think it would be producing more by now, given all that land. I guess you must have some "environmentalists" tripping you up, too? Meanwhile, California's GDP per capita puts it roughly on par with Norway, which on that scale is the third or fourth richest country in the world.

      Funny that a Canadian would want to criticize California for its "entitlement programs," though -- that's usually the one Canadians hold out on until they want to get on their soapbox about the superiority of Canadian society. In fact, it's not entitlement programs that have damaged the Californian economy, but years of misgovernance due to an overabundance of budgetary earmarks that have left legislators incapable of allocating funds where they're needed.

      Be that as it may, as far as California having a "self-inflated opinion of itself," California represents 13 percent of the GDP of the entire United States, which is 60 percent better than the second-place state (Texas) can claim.

      But that's OK. Americans are well aware that nothing keeps a Canadian warm on those cold winter nights like talking trash about the United States, even if they've never set foot in the U.S. and don't really know the first thing about it except what they see on TV.

      --
      Breakfast served all day!
    57. Re:California wants to split off by mr1911 · · Score: 1

      The federal gov't is becoming more and more dictatorial, the US wasn't built with people who love dictators.

      I won't argue that. But I wouldn't put my money on California leading a secession.

      --
      This post comes with a double-your-money-back guarantee!
      Any offense taken to this post is at your sole discretion.
    58. Re:California wants to split off by GreennMann · · Score: 1

      I would definitely bank of California breaking away physically before breaking away politically.

    59. Re:California wants to split off by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      First, the GP said nothing about the state budget.

      Second, that's a perfect example of the broken window fallacy. The citizens pay the Federal Government, and in so doing, give it money that cannot be spent for other things. The correct question is how much the citizens of California as a whole send to the federal government versus the amount that the federal government sends back. The answer to that is "a lot more", with the sole exception of the last couple of years (in which California has gotten more than it sent in, but so has every other state). In most years, California gets back somewhere in the ballpark of eighty cents for every dollar it sends to the feds.

      I am well aware of what the broken window fallacy is. Care to explain how anything I said could be an example of that?

      And you are again raising as fact the assertion that California pays more to the feds than gets back. If you don't cherry-pick federal spending but take all federal outlays instead, you will find California is not a net donor.

      Again, the amount is immaterial. What's important is the cost-benefit ratio. The blue states, on the average, get far less benefit for their federal tax dollars than the red states. This is fairly well established and can be trivially proven by examining the numbers.

      Nowhere did I say that, in general, blue states aren't net donors (they are, but there are blue states that aren't, and red states that are, and it is foolish to use it as proof that one political party is better than the other). What I did say is California is not a net donor.

      Unless, of course, you consider the security benefits. Consider how the wide difference in wealth between the U.S. and Mexico has caused serious safety problems near our Southern border. Now consider what would happen if the Southern U.S. were similarly poor because California stopped propping them up. And that is why the argument of California getting less out than it puts in falls flatâ"not because it isn't true from a purely numbers point of view, but rather because there are unquantifiable externalities that the argument fails to take into account.

      The wide difference in wealth is *not* the cause of the safety problems on the border. Rampant narco-wars in Mexico, and some blatantly boneheaded ideas from Congress on border security are the cause. As to the second part of your argument, that presumes California is a net donor, which is what is at issue.

    60. Re:California wants to split off by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Does that take into account the indirect federal subsidy that comes in the form of tax deductions? California has some of the highest levels of income tax in the U.S., and much(*) of it is tax deductible in federal taxation. (Other types of state tax are deductible also, but don't vary so much between the states, I'm guessing.)

      In 2005, California collected about $105 billion in tax revenues, out of which about 55%, or $60 billion are income taxes. Assuming the average marginal federal tax rate of 20%, that would amount to about $10 billion of indirect federal subsidy.

      (*) All of it, offset by the standard deduction.

    61. Re:California wants to split off by chrb · · Score: 1

      What do you think breaking away from the union would do to that economy?

      It depends on what agreements are put in to place. Free trade does not, in itself, require political union.

    62. Re:California wants to split off by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      An independent Canada would have to pay for its own defense. $40 billion would put it on a par with Germany and Japan, both respectable but defensive powers.

      Then it would need its own border controls, its own regulatory agencies, its own air traffic control, its own postal service. To say nothing of prestige projects such as its own national airline (which would no longer have home player advantage in the rest of the US...).

      That $39 billion wouldn't go very far towards sustaining the costs of a full independent country.

    63. Re:California wants to split off by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What is your argument that the federal programs you've listed would somehow not be included in a summary of federal spending?

      CA is the most productive state, service-wise, in the whole United States. People on the right coast hate this because they can't come to terms with the fact that California's progressive approach to business and goverment makes it thoroughly successful: it creates services and entertainment which people want and it's only the contribution it makes to prop up the more backward ("conservative") parts of the nation which allows its detractors to whine that it's somehow operating at a loss.

      To put things in hyperbolic Fox style perspective, the federal tax system is set up to punish socialists so the right wing nutjobs can then tell them they're failures. Otherwise they'd outperform the financial leeches on the East coast to the extent that America would see a sweeping change in political slant.

    64. Re:California wants to split off by jtroy92 · · Score: 1

      That's all federal spending, so yes, it's included. There's a net outflow from the state of California of $60 billion, or $2000 per capita. California, along with most productive (blue) states, subsidize the more needy (red) states. It's been this way for a long time. From the link in my previous post:

      http://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_blog/2004/09/red_states_feed.html

      States Receiving Most in Federal Spending Per Dollar of Federal Taxes Paid:
      1. D.C. ($6.17)
      2. North Dakota ($2.03)
      3. New Mexico ($1.89)
      4. Mississippi ($1.84)
      5. Alaska ($1.82)
      6. West Virginia ($1.74)
      7. Montana ($1.64)
      8. Alabama ($1.61)
      9. South Dakota ($1.59)
      10. Arkansas ($1.53)

      States Receiving Least in Federal Spending Per Dollar of Federal Taxes Paid:
      1. New Jersey ($0.62)
      2. Connecticut ($0.64)
      3. New Hampshire ($0.68)
      4. Nevada ($0.73)
      5. Illinois ($0.77)
      6. Minnesota ($0.77)
      7. Colorado ($0.79)
      8. Massachusetts ($0.79)
      9. California ($0.81)
      10. New York ($0.81)

    65. Re:California wants to split off by Guy+Harris · · Score: 2

      California sees less return on federal dollars than is taken in taxes. (Who's the parasite, again?)

      You sure about that? Hint: look at all the Federal expenditures in California, including welfare.

      OK, let's look at, say, the 2006 report from the Tax Foundation. What it says about Federal expenditures is

      Federal Expenditures Each year the Census Bureau releases the Consolidated Federal Funds Report, which estimates the amount of federal spending in each state and territory during the prior fiscal year. The latest report allocates approximately 92 percent of total FY 2005 federal spending. The 8 percent not allocated includes net interest outlays, foreign aid, and other outlays that are not allocable to the states. For the purposes of this report, the Tax Foundation uses this census data as is.

      In the calculation of spending-to-tax ratios, however, an adjustment must be made to bring federal tax collections and federal spending into alignment. Therefore, a deficit is treated as an unfunded tax liability in the current year, allocated in the same fashion as the federal tax burden. Similarly, the model assumes that a surplus is used to pay down the federal debt to domestic capital holders.

      The 2010 Consolidated Federal Funds Report does mention Temporary Aid to Needy Families and several other programs that I guess are what you're referring to when you say "welfare".

    66. Re:California wants to split off by gmhowell · · Score: 1

      One problem with moving all of the CA port traffic to OR or WA is that the infrastructure to get stuff out of OR and WA is nowhere near the levels of that coming out of CA. There would need to be massive expenditures on rail and/or highways to make it work.

      --
      Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon
    67. Re:California wants to split off by gmhowell · · Score: 1

      And yet, the GP gave links, whereas you just provided your anonymous assertion that he was wrong. Where is your link to an analysis showing that CA is a net receiver of federal largesse?

      --
      Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon
    68. Re:California wants to split off by mycroft822 · · Score: 1

      What you aren't taking into account is why a lot of the states appearing at the top of the list are there, "leeching government money" as you put it. They are some of the states with the lowest population and income levels, but home to federal projects that cost a lot of money to maintain that provide a service the entire country (arguably I suppose) benefits from. New Mexico has two of the largest national laboratories in the country, Los Alamos and Sandia. As I'm sure you know they are responsible for designing and building our nuclear arsenal, which I am sure has a pretty high price tag, along with tons of other advanced research projects. Three of the others that pop out at me are North Dakota, South Dakota and Montana. These three states were the ones that actually housed the bulk of the US nuclear arsenal, presumably because every other state said "No F-ing Way". Look here for the list of air force bases that maintained the Minuteman missiles. I grew up in the part of MT where they had those missiles, and they were always doing training drills along the mountain front back in the 80's and 90's before the cold war ended.

    69. Re:California wants to split off by Guy+Harris · · Score: 1

      3. On the whole, California takes in far more in federal benefits than it pays in federal tax. Unlike your analysis, which excludes broad categories of welfare spending, I look at gross flows of funds.

      OK, so which broad categories of welfare spending did the Census Bureau exclude in the 2005 Consolidated Federal Funds Report (2005 because that's the year for the Tax Foundation's press release and their report)?

      I.e., give us citations and methodology for your gross-flows-of-funds analysis, plz.

    70. Re:California wants to split off by jtroy92 · · Score: 1

      "3. On the whole, California takes in far more in federal benefits than it pays in federal tax. Unlike your analysis, which excludes broad categories of welfare spending, I look at gross flows of funds."

      Could you please provide some sort of link or other evidence to back up your claims? Every bit of evidence presented on this thread has been that California and other blue states routinely carry the deadweight of the red states. Here is evidence of that, the first from a conservative outfit, the second from a liberal one:

      http://www.taxfoundation.org/research/show/22685.html
      http://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_blog/2004/09/red_states_feed.html

      Do you have anything to back up your assertions, or are you just comfortable knowing that you're right, no matter what the facts say?

    71. Re:California wants to split off by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Quebec on the other hand has always been a gimme province.

      Sorry, aren't you talking about Newfies?

    72. Re:California wants to split off by Guy+Harris · · Score: 1

      That says "federal spending". Does that include Social Security payments? Welfare? Medicaid?

      Given that the Tax Foundation report got the federal expenditures data from the Census Bureau's 2005 Consolidated Federal Funds Report. Said report includes Social Security payments; see Table 2. Table 3 doesn't explicitly call out, for example, programs such as Temporary Assistance to Need Families and Aid to Families with Dependent Children (which are what I think most people really mean when they say "welfare"), but the "ESTIMATES FOR SUBSTATE DISTRIBUTIONS" secton does mention them, along with Medical Assistance (Medicaid). So the answer to your question appears to be "yes".

      Per person in that state?

      Figure 5 has per-capita figures, although they're not broken down into Social Security, "welfare", Medicaid, etc.. In any case, it's not as if the Tax Foundation did something stooopid such as doing tax receipts from the states per-capita and not doing federal spending per-capita, so it's not as if "per-capita in the state" matters here - revenues and expenditures both go up with more people.

      I think the numbers would dramatically shift if that were included...

      I think (with the Census Bureau's report as backing) that they already are included, and therefore that the numbers would not shift one iota if they were included....

    73. Re:California wants to split off by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So hey, in the interests of making a new friend in a far away land, this is how it works-

      Unless California is fairly self-sufficient (hint- it's not), a lot of the Federal money spent in flyover country is in the form of subsidies, everything from keeping food artificially cheap to a network of roads which give California's ports value. If you've traveled a bit, you know the US has incredibly cheap food (which is a large part of our asses becoming large as well).

      Further, the people that live out in the boonies require certain incentives and infrastructure to make life bearable there, so the trade off is federal dollars to keep things cheap not only for them but the rest of the country as well. It's called the Breadbasket of America for a reason, and the last thing you want to do is greatly annoy the people who grow the majority of your food.

      Any gains made by California breaking away would be voraciously eaten up in increased food and trade costs (you can look up the history of the US Civil War and note the starvation and huge sums of money the North paid for food [which gave rise to the greenback]). Given the population size vs. farm land, they would be reduced to cannibalism in a few years (or start a war with Mexico... which they would lose).

      Now it is debatable if California is perhaps paying more than its fair share, but the truth of the matter is it is a mutually beneficial arrangement which is the largest portion as to why California has such a highly rated economy- it shares a boarder with a country that can supplement their needs.

      Unfortunately, we have a facile liberal class in this country (as opposed to a xenophobic religious class) which seems to lack a most rudimentary reading of economics and history, let alone grasp that shrink-wrapped Styrofoam is not the natural habitat of meat. Any claims made by them should be treated with suspicion, if not outright derision.

      Hope this helps.

    74. Re:California wants to split off by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Does this "8th largest economy" and the amount of federal tax money take into account that the largest economic sector of California is government? Yeah, California would do great on it's own taking care of everyone's forms and managing contractors.

    75. Re:California wants to split off by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I find that this $240 billion in federal money doesn't add up. There are hundreds of DoD activities in California, from MAJOR navy bases (San Diego, Seal Beach, etc), Camp Pendleton, Edwards, San Francisco, Ft Irwin, etc etc etc etc crap we probably have a third of the DoD activity in this state alone. Plus tons of other federal government agencies (NASA anyone)? I"m sorry this does not add up.

    76. Re:California wants to split off by dgatwood · · Score: 1

      And you are again raising as fact the assertion that California pays more to the feds than gets back. If you don't cherry-pick federal spending but take all federal outlays instead, you will find California is not a net donor.

      Since that's contrary to every stat I've ever read, I'm going to just say [citation needed].

      http://www.calinst.org/pubs/balance2003.htm provides a pretty thorough breakdown of how those numbers are calculated. I'm not seeing anything wrong with the methodology.

      The wide difference in wealth is *not* the cause of the safety problems on the border. Rampant narco-wars in Mexico, and some blatantly boneheaded ideas from Congress on border security are the cause.

      There were serious problems with rampant corruption and lawbreaking in Mexico (particularly along the border) long before the drug wars happened. That's just the latest aggravating factor.

      --

      Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

    77. Re:California wants to split off by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And where exactly does your energy come from, you bunch of NIMBYs?

    78. Re:California wants to split off by glodime · · Score: 1

      Thanks for the links. It seems that the report does NOT "exclude broad categories of welfare spending" as claimed by our Anonymous Coward above. In fact they simply apply the spending data as they receive it from the Census Bureau. (PDF page 47 or report page 21) However, they do add to the Census Bureau's tax receipts figures the FY 2004 deficit in proportion to the figures from the Census Bureau. This seems to be a reasonable assumption even though future taxes are nearly guaranteed to be distributed differently in the future.

      Below is the explanation from the report FY 2004 Tax Foundation report:

      Each year the Census Bureau releases the Consolidated Federal Funds Report, which estimates the amount of federal spending in each state and territory during the prior fiscal year. The latest report allocates approximately 92 percent of total FY 2004 federal spending. The 8 percent not allocated includes net inter est outlays, foreign aid, and other outlays that are not allocable to the states. For the purposes of this report, the Tax Foundation uses this census data as is.

      In the calculation of spending-to-tax ratios, however, an adjustment must be made to bring federal tax collections and federal spending into alignment. Therefore, a deficit is treated as an unfunded tax liability in the current year, allocated in the same fashion as the federal tax burden. Similarly, the model assumes that a surplus is used to pay down the federal debt to domestic capital holders.

      I didn't notice anything wrong regarding the methodology or data sources that the Census Bureau used. It doesn't appear that the that the Census Bureau are including amounts for military personnel stationed overseas. So, there is a bit of argument to be had about such outlays being distributed evenly per capital across the USA (or something similar). Also amounts reported for military wages reflect the place of employment(duty station) rather than home residence. but this doesn't seem like it would move the numbers in a meaningful way if the methodology were changed. Total federal expenditures are broken into five categories: retirement and disability, other direct payments, grants to state and local governments, procurement, salaries and wages,and other. All of this information is disclosed or summarized in the FY 2004 Tax Foundation report.

      Unless I'm missing something, it seems that ALL categories of welfare spending are included. Our Anonymous Coward above is either misinformed, making up "facts", or has information that can shed light on the discrepancy claimed but is choosing not to share. My bet is on misinformed.

      FYI - It looks like you have the dates 2009 and 2006 on the wrong links. The dates are also inconsistent. The Fiscal Year 2004 data was in the report released in 2006. The Fiscal Year 2009 data was in the report released in 2011. Also the FY 2009 report was only on Local and State Tax burdens relative to income, i.e., no expenditures were considered.

    79. Re:California wants to split off by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, California (the country) would be able to correct it's apostrophe abu'se problem's by just mandating that it's u'se of apo'strophe's is correct. It's that damn Federal Government and their Department of Grammar Nazi's (part of the Department of Education) that make it difficult for California to do thi's.

      FTFY.

    80. Re:California wants to split off by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What's wrong with helping fellow states in your nation? Instead of compaining about it with a 'me me me' attitude, why not try to help those poorer states to ultimately reduce your federal taxes in the future.

    81. Re:California wants to split off by Totenglocke · · Score: 1

      Dude, look at the local and states laws in California. They LOVE the dictator mentality and having the government meddle in every last area of their lives.

      --
      "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." ~Thomas Jefferson
    82. Re:California wants to split off by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      There are eighteen states that actually pay their own way, or better, according to the latest data they have collected.... Seventeen of those states went for Obama / Biden in 2008.

      Whether you were for Obama's healthcare plan, or opposed it, one of the most satisfying ironies of the situation was that people who didn't need free healthcare were fighting to give it to people who didn't want it. Makes me smile every time I think of it.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    83. Re:California wants to split off by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      Yes, if we had a perfect free market economy there would be no need for governments at all. The world would be united, but under The Invisible Hand and not ZOG.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    84. Re:California wants to split off by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      Since when do we refer to countries by their ccTLD?

      Mexico is a country .mx is not.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    85. Re:California wants to split off by vlm · · Score: 1

      Also I don't think we'd give up seattle without a fight, need a pacific ocean seaport.

      Unless there's a MAJOR seismic event causing massive geometric shift, I don't think that a California cessation would have much effect on Seattle remaining within the US political boundaries... It's something like 500 miles away.

      Well I was thinking more of domino effect. A dude in Chicago wants a pacific seaport. Don't much care where it is. California is a lost cause, but Seattle probably would stay in the union and if needed we could probably hold it under military law. They may want to go to a more civilized country with a better health care system like Canada. Frankly, I do too, if Canada "invaded and took over" the upper midwest I certainly wouldn't fight it, it would actually be a nice upgrade. Canada does have weird freaky gun laws which sorta work in a civilized area, but the 'hood in US cities is not civilized, so you do the math.

      Maybe some place in Oregon could be held as our western seaport... Too far away from .mx to become part of .mx, too far away from .ca to become part of .ca, unless they get greedy, anyway.

      --
      "Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
    86. Re:California wants to split off by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      California sees less return on federal dollars than is taken in taxes.

      Because of Social Security and Medicare. All factoid reveals is that California is an undesirable place to retire.

    87. Re:California wants to split off by rickett81 · · Score: 1

      As a Quebecer.

      Not a Quebecois?

    88. Re:California wants to split off by DragonWriter · · Score: 1

      The feds don't have to worry. California is in worse fiscal condition than the Federal government -- they can't afford to break off.

      California appears, if you gauge by the news coverage of "budget crises", to be in worse fiscal condition than the federal government simply because California, unlike the federal government, is Constitutionally required to have a balanced budget. The "major" deficit gaps that the State has had to close in recent budgets have been less than 2% of gross state product. Certainly, structurally limitations (until a few years ago, California had a supermajority requirement to pass a budget, and it still has a supermajority requirement to raise any taxes) make it politically difficult to meet those Constitutional requirements, hence the breathless media coverage, but that political drama is out of proportion to the scale of the actual fiscal issues.

      The federal government -- counting only on-budget spending -- has recently been running (not "finding ways to close in budget negotiations") deficits of over 5% of GDP, peaking at over 10% of GDP.

      And that's all with California receiving substantially less in federal funds than Californians pay in federal taxes.

      Objectively speaking, California is in better fiscal shape than the federal government, and that would only get better for California (and worse for the Federal Government) if Californians weren't providing a net subsidy (in terms of federal taxes paid vs. federal spending received) to the Federal government.
      Total state debt in California is also much lower, as a percent of GSP, than the US federal debt as a percent of GDP.

      Politically speaking, there's always a lot of budget drama in California, but that's a feature of the political structure, and is different from the substantive fiscal situation.

    89. Re:California wants to split off by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      Let me repeat that: double, from 1998 to 2008.

      Are you talking California or feds?

      Really? You mean the government can't give out more money to the states than it takes in in taxes... oh right, I suppose it does that all the time.

      I know you are trying to be funny, but the issue is that the Feds spend more in red states than blue states. Red states pay less to the feds than the feds give back. Blue states pay more and receive fewer services from the feds. The first civil war was over economics and the reds were getting screwed and left because of that. Now that the blues are getting screwed, lets see how long they take it before something happens (and when it does, the reds, who cry "states rights" when convenient may not be singing the "lets start a war to keep them from going" tune).

    90. Re:California wants to split off by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      If CA separated and canceled its state income tax and followed the US income tax scheme, it would receive more money and the people would be taxed less. When you consider the taxes an individual pays, you can keep the burden the same and they'd have no budget issues. Or, better yet, tax all property at market value and lower the tax rate on property to take in the same total amount, and get rid of the silly "the longer you've held your property, the less you pay" scheme. I'd suggest getting rid of property tax completely, but I've looked at some places with very low taxes (compared to the US) and people hold abandoned land forever, driving up real estate costs and limiting development.

    91. Re:California wants to split off by Jhon · · Score: 1

      So... now that I have numbers to review, what *I* see are densely populated states subsidizing the federally funded infrastructure of the less densely populated states. Is that unfair? The highway system alone is key in keeping the economic engine of this country running. Take that extra spending from the corn-belt and watch how much the prices of food rise for everyone.

      The argument that the "blues" fund the "reds" is specious at best.

    92. Re:California wants to split off by urusan · · Score: 1

      And that is why the argument of California getting less out than it puts in falls flat—not because it isn't true from a purely numbers point of view, but rather because there are unquantifiable externalities that the argument fails to take into account.

      Extending this line of thought a bit further, another huge unquantifiable externality is the access California gets to research done using federal money. The state at the top of the Tax Foundation list, New Mexico, is home to Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory. At $1.5 billion in funding, LLNL represents a surprisingly large percentage of the state's $74.3 billion GDP. Similarly, my current state of Tennessee has the slightly larger Oak Ridge National Laboratory, which skews TN more towards being a "taker" state without accounting for the nationwide benefits that come out of the research being done there.

      When it comes to security benefits, another thing to consider is the stabilizing effect the US military has on international trade. Even if one considers US defense spending levels to be excessive, if seems quite plausible that if it fell below a certain level then several other nations would step in to fill the power vaccuum. It also seems unlikely that any one nation would come to dominate at the same level as the US. The EU, US, China, Russia, India, and Brazil would all be regional superpowers that would have their own ideas about how to run things. It could also easily lead to situations like a nuclear-armed Japan, a re-ignition of the Korean War, or an invasion of Taiwan. Overall, these factors would make nations worldwide spend more money on hardening their defenses and thus make trade harder for everyone. Worst case, the superpowers could directly clash and set off WWIII, which would ruin everyone's day.

      Another hard to quantify factor is "free" benefits like open trade with the other states, better access to much other non-federal research, a lack of immigration restrictions between the US states, a lack of worry about being invaded by the US, access to military bases in the eastern US and abroad, and other benefits that derive from the simple cooperation of the other states.

      I wonder how things stacks up when these hard to quantify factors are taken into consideration. It could go either way, but I suspect that the free benefits push it over the edge into being beneficial. Standing together makes us strong...I simply hope that we can keep up the trust needed to keep standing together.

    93. Re:California wants to split off by urusan · · Score: 1

      Oh, and one last thing, some of the taker states have resources that an independent CA would lose access to. New Mexico has a huge desert where large science and defense facilities can be set up cheaply, West VA has massive coal deposits, Hawaii is strategically important in the Pacific, etc. Here in TN, a facility such as ORNL can be set up which costs less than if it were located in CA (due to lower cost of living and property costs) because it's more economical to not cram everything into scarce territory near the ocean...while at the same time being located in a place that many talented people are interested in living in.

      The point is that much of our federal spending is oriented towards efficiently exploiting national resources to strengthen the whole country.

      Man, doing a good cost-benefit analysis is hard. It's so easy to miss or misjudge important factors such as these.

    94. Re:California wants to split off by Rakarra · · Score: 1

      Hell, California has enormous mountain ranges that build up a snowpack whose runoff we subsist off of for the rest of the year. And while LA and San Diego get a lot a bit of water from external sources, those external sources as often as not are from Northern California. The North vs South water wars probably fuel much of the "split the state" arguements that we see every so often.

    95. Re:California wants to split off by Rakarra · · Score: 1

      This is of course ignoring the fact that if CA actually survived on its own for more than six months the US would invade and force them back into the Union.

      That's not that hard, you arm all eastern Californians with shoulder-mounted RPG launchers to shoot down the helicopters that try to pass over their mountains. The military will be stymied and will eventually leave California alone.

      (I had to read a fucking aweful book for a college class once called Ecotopia written in the 70s about a fictional sessession of California and Oregon which very quickly become an ecological and hippie-based utopian society and, I'm not kidding, the above was the only military strategy that was mentioned. That little actual thought was put into it should tell you how much thought was put into solving the rest of society's problems)

    96. Re:California wants to split off by Coren22 · · Score: 1

      Try sorting the states by population, you may find an even more disturbing trend. Land area/population is an interesting one too. The states that spend the most comparably are the states with a lower population per square mile. Every state is on the interstate system, and some of them are less populous and large than others.

      --
      APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
    97. Re:California wants to split off by Coren22 · · Score: 1

      You keep posting the same link, did you miss something in the previous poster's point which directly refuted it?

      Unlike your analysis, which excludes broad categories of welfare spending, I look at gross flows of funds.

      So, do you have a source that includes that spending, or will you keep using the same link?

      --
      APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
    98. Re:California wants to split off by Coren22 · · Score: 1

      Already happened to Hawaii ;)

      --
      APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
  7. Predictions... by SJHillman · · Score: 4, Interesting

    50 years ago, they were predicting flying cars, space travel, holographic TVs, etc by y2k but few of the things they predicted came true, and even of those that did most of them are not accessible to Joe Average. However, look at the one big thing most of them missed: The Internet and the consumer microcomputer revolution.

    Predicting the somewhat distant future is great and all, but I'm sure there will be something huge that we never see coming and once it's there, we'll wonder how we ever lived without it.

    1. Re:Predictions... by bkmoore · · Score: 3, Funny

      "I'm sure that in 1985 plutonium is available in every corner drugstore, but in 1955 it's a little hard to come by. " - Doc Brown ... You forgot the atomic reactor in every home.

    2. Re:Predictions... by Synerg1y · · Score: 1

      Futurists follow a common theme in their predictions:

      1. take something that exists
      2. watch some sci-fi
      3. combine the 2
      4. make a prediction

      Thus they can't ever predict what's not there, nor can they predict inventions because they aren't inventors and don't specialize in any field.

      Personally, I'm stilling waiting on somebody to invent the lightsaber, anyone?

    3. Re:Predictions... by Sperbels · · Score: 1

      You mean you don't have one?

    4. Re:Predictions... by rubycodez · · Score: 1

      that's a water heater. it runs on natural gas or electricity from a utility. sorry.

    5. Re:Predictions... by kruhft · · Score: 1

      When William Gibson was disucssing Neuromancer, he mentioned that the major technology that he completely missed was...the cellphone.

    6. Re:Predictions... by plover · · Score: 1

      Sixty seven years ago, Vannevar Bush envisioned the "memex", and as people became technically capable of doing so, they created it. http://www.livinginternet.com/i/ii_bush.htm. He was extremely influential in creating what eventually became DARPA and the ARPANET. To suggest that his "prediction was missed" is not correct. It was a less of a prediction and more of a vision that he and many other brilliant people worked hard to realize.

      The Space Elevator may have been Clarke's idea, but he didn't create a Space Elevator Coalition to build one.

      --
      John
    7. Re:Predictions... by Jeremi · · Score: 1

      I'm sure there will be something huge that we never see coming and once it's there, we'll wonder how we ever lived without it.

      Cthulu?

      --


      I don't care if it's 90,000 hectares. That lake was not my doing.
    8. Re:Predictions... by okmijnuhb · · Score: 1

      Also, futurists are too optimistic. Look at the past for reference. Think more along the lines of distopian totalitarian regimes, famine, war, environmental degradation, pollution, overpopulation, poverty, crime, economic collapse and the ensuing melee, and you will be closer to reality.

    9. Re:Predictions... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Futurologists do way worse than chance. If they were no better than chance, half of their predictions would have come true; their record is not within a bull's roar of that.

    10. Re:Predictions... by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      Those things might have happened if we had kept going at the pace we were in the 60s. Space technology, supersonic passenger jets, high speed trains, much faster cars, solid state computers, the integrated circuit, computer networks and so on.

      Had things continued as they were I don't think 2001 was unrealistically ambitious.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    11. Re:Predictions... by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      Thus they can't ever predict what's not there, nor can they predict inventions because they aren't inventors and don't specialize in any field.

      People predict what they would like to see (Star Trek communicators) and then, if viable, someone creates one. Of course, the original Star Trek didn't showcase OLED screens, thin light, and with cool graphics because it was impossible to do at the time with a TV show budget. But Star Trek TNG did iPads (rounded corners and all) before they were out because it was possible under the tech and worked with the plot. Likely in hundreds of years, some of the cyberpunk will be closer to the truth. Occular implants with neural I/O, and other things that are almost possible now, but would face moral objections voluntarily turning people into cyborgs.

      Predictions are hard because you either take the easy way and predict what everyone else has, or you actually make up new things, which is harder to do and less likely to come true, as the feasibility is unknown. Look at the future in Back to the Future and tell me where are my hoverboards and flying cars.

  8. My predications. by Kenja · · Score: 5, Funny

    Prediction 1 : I'll be dead.
    Prediction 2 : Don't care. See prediction 1.

    --

    "Have you ever thought about just turning off the TV, sitting down with your kids, and hitting them?"
    1. Re:My predications. by mr1911 · · Score: 4, Funny

      Apparently you missed the prediction about all naysayers being cryogenically suspended and revived later as a slave class.

      You will care. Oh how you will care.

      --
      This post comes with a double-your-money-back guarantee!
      Any offense taken to this post is at your sole discretion.
  9. California wants out? Awesome! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    'There are some indications already that California wants to split off...people not wanting to fund others if they can avoid it.

    Where do I sign to discharge these deadbeats? Count me worried about federal bailouts of their bloated pension funds, etc.

  10. 100 years from now. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The British will have completed their conquest of the world. The British will have the peasants eat the dead, Only the Royals will be allowed to live beyond the age of 30, etc...

    1. Re:100 years from now. by dgatwood · · Score: 1

      You misspelled Goa'uld.

      --

      Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

  11. We know one thing for sure. by fsterman · · Score: 4, Interesting

    That there will be an ironic post about 20 top predictions from 100 years prior and snarky commentators will smugly wonder how we took any of this seriously.

    --
    Is there anything better than clicking through Microsoft ads on Slashdot?
    1. Re:We know one thing for sure. by snarkh · · Score: 1

      But the best part is that this technology is available today!

    2. Re:We know one thing for sure. by should_be_linear · · Score: 3, Insightful

      In the case it is beyond year 2112 right now, and you came to see how stupid we were back then, here is message from the distant past from your wise geek grand-grandfathers: _Eat Your Shit Smartass_ !

      --
      839*929
    3. Re:We know one thing for sure. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah. The only futurists I believe are the ones publishing in the Ladies Home Journal.

      http://www.paleofuture.com/blog/2007/4/17/what-may-happen-in-the-next-hundred-years-ladies-home-journa.html

  12. My prediction by jd2112 · · Score: 1

    99.99% of the people reading this article will be dead in 100 years.

    --
    Any insufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology.
    1. Re:My prediction by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      99.99% of the people reading this article will be dead in 100 years.

      It would be interesting to calculate what percentage of readership would still be alive in 100 years time. Estimating (conservatively) that 1% of readers are 20 years old, and 1% of those would live to be 120, then that would be 0.01% of readers still alive. Crikey! So 99.99% would be dead - if that figure was a guess, it was a good one!

    2. Re:My prediction by Nethemas+the+Great · · Score: 1

      Untrue. One of the predictions was humanity becoming a race of cyborgs and essentially immortal.

      --
      Two of my imaginary friends reproduced once ... with negative results.
    3. Re:My prediction by jd2112 · · Score: 1

      I think my prediction is somewhat more likely.

      --
      Any insufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology.
    4. Re:My prediction by nomorecwrd · · Score: 1

      and the rest 0.01% will hardly tell if he/she is alive anymore.

    5. Re:My prediction by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's silly! People don't just cease to exist, don't they?

    6. Re:My prediction by R3d+M3rcury · · Score: 1

      Well, one of his predictions is that the human lifespan will be increased so that it will be common for people to live more than 100 years.

      So they've got that going for them.

  13. California Secede? Unlikely by damn_registrars · · Score: 1

    You are calling the wrong secession movement, there. California isn't likely to leave. Much more likely is Texas. And if Texas does leave, I'll happily be here telling them not to let the door hit them on the way out.

    And to have fun building that wall they've been wanting for so long, on their own.

    --
    Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
  14. Pipe dreams by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    By 2050 most of the humans will be dead because of lack of medicines to cure resistant bacteria.

    1. Re:Pipe dreams by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We didn't have medicines to cure anything at all until about 100 years ago, and "most of the humans" didn't die.

      Okay, technically most of them did at some point, but not the way you meant.

    2. Re:Pipe dreams by Issarlk · · Score: 1

      How can a bacteria resist a microscopic programmable laser battery targeting it and shooting at it as it passes by in the blood stream?

    3. Re:Pipe dreams by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      Because we all died before anti-biotics were discovered? Oh, right, we didn't.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
  15. So come on /., put forth YOUR predictions! by boristdog · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I predict there will be unrest in the middle east.

    1. Re:So come on /., put forth YOUR predictions! by martas · · Score: 3, Funny

      How absurd! Next you're going to suggest that religious disagreements will be a source of conflict and unrest in the world!

    2. Re:So come on /., put forth YOUR predictions! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I predict that in 100 years, we may have lost some of our most cherished wildlife (big cats, pandas, etc.), but we will still have three things: Death, taxes, and cockroaches.

      And the cockroaches will be getting around in Jetsons-style flying cars. :-)

    3. Re:So come on /., put forth YOUR predictions! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And I predict that the oil price go up. And then it will go down.

    4. Re:So come on /., put forth YOUR predictions! by stevencbrown · · Score: 2

      Good old Nostradamus
      He knew the whole damn time
      There'd always be an East from West
      And someone in there fighting

    5. Re:So come on /., put forth YOUR predictions! by TankSpanker04 · · Score: 1

      I predict the only thing left of the middle east will be radioactive waste and sand.

    6. Re:So come on /., put forth YOUR predictions! by marcosdumay · · Score: 1

      I'd be happy if I knew that it would be only there.

      Ok, other places have rocks too. It wil be just there.

    7. Re:So come on /., put forth YOUR predictions! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Easy solution: Just ship some Africans there and the Middle Easterners will all die of AIDS.

    8. Re:So come on /., put forth YOUR predictions! by mdm42 · · Score: 1

      ...and our decendants will be using stone tools to prosecute said unrest.

      --
      New mod option wanted: -1 DrunkenRambling
    9. Re:So come on /., put forth YOUR predictions! by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      I predict there will be unrest in the middle east.

      I predict that in a hundred years time what we currently call the Middle East will be a post-nuclear wasteland inhabited only by zombies and mutated giant cockroaches.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
  16. Ubiquitous Wi-Fi/Energy by jomama717 · · Score: 1

    This isn't really that huge, and we are clearly on the road to this already, but I think our children will struggle to imagine a time when you could only have a wi-fi connection in your house or at a business.

    I think the huge breakthrough will be cheap renewable energy, but it will be some unforeseen insight/technology that brings it, and not anything that we are likely to predict today...like no grid, but everyone has with them at all times a near endless source of energy that powers their surroundings. Energy could kind of follow the same path that computing has, from large, expensive, centralized to tiny, cheap, and distributed.

    --
    while [ 1 ]; do echo -n -e "\xe2\x95\xb$((($RANDOM&1)+1))"; done
    1. Re:Ubiquitous Wi-Fi/Energy by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      I think the huge breakthrough will be cheap renewable energy, but it will be some unforeseen insight/technology that brings it, and not anything that we are likely to predict today...like no grid, but everyone has with them at all times a near endless source of energy that powers their surroundings.

      In other words...magic!

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
  17. Re:California Secede? Unlikely by thomasw_lrd · · Score: 0

    Thank God I'm a Native Texan. At least then I'll be able to move there, and get out of the United States of Fucking America.

  18. One currency? Bad idea even if possible. by Beryllium+Sphere(tm) · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Research "Optimal Currency Area". Try to have a single currency across a heterogeneous region, and you get a train wreck like the Euro.

    People aren't going to give up their native languages, either.

    1. Re:One currency? Bad idea even if possible. by vlm · · Score: 1

      People aren't going to give up their native languages, either.

      "The South and California" is much more likely to break off into "North Mexico" than it is into "Tea Party Land" or even "The republican party of quislingville" or whatever.

      --
      "Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
    2. Re:One currency? Bad idea even if possible. by mark-t · · Score: 1

      People aren't going to give up their native languages, either.

      It's not like it will just happen all of a sudden... although I think it's going to take much more than a hundred years. Probably more like a thousand. Although I would not dare predict which languages they will be speaking. About 2000 years ago, it looked like the entire civilized world was going to one day be speaking Latin.

    3. Re:One currency? Bad idea even if possible. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This prediction is really quite strange. I find idea of couple big languages also strange, to say the least. At the rate machine translation has improved lately, I would assume abandoning mother tongue to become less, not more relevant. Although for English speakers this reduction of languages might seem "inevitable", people are really not very likely to switch their languages, a nation at a time. It makes roughly as much sense to assume that vast majority of Britons would speak Mandarin as their mother tongue in a hundred years. What are the chances? How would that happen, in a voluntary way?

      Many other stances also stand out, in my opinion, as more utopian than based on any kind of futurologic scrutiny. Many of them would essentially demand abolition of cultures, languages and long-term established societal order and conventions, without any whiff of logical reason how this end result might have been reached. Somehow all the benefits of science, engineering, democracy and whatnot would be essentially preserved, although the frameworks where these were grown would have disappeared.

      And, of course, there is strong belief in Western cultural hegemony, as well as capability to manage overpopulation and other resource straining issues while at the same time driving the whole planet forwards on some sort of culture-free utopian path. I just don't believe it's going to happen.

      I could give some much more dystopian, or at least shocking predictions, for the Western mindset. Futurology shouldn't be only a question of what is possible or desirable, but what is likely to happen. Maybe sci-fi writers are not the best forecasters in that regard.

    4. Re:One currency? Bad idea even if possible. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Agreed. Demonstrably bad. It's particularly amusing when people talk about gold as real money and in the same breath expresss fear of an international currency. Gold *was* an international currency and it failed. Everybody trashed the gold standard to get themselves out of the Great Depression. The anti-Fed crowd has one thing right though I think. Eventually the world abandons the US Dollar for the same reason it abandoned gold. Because the current global economic system is in a defective state, the only way to fix your sovereign's economy is to divorce from the global economy. Abandoning the monetary unit (be it gold or the US dollar) is the best way to do that.

      There will be a lingua franca but you're also right about regional languages. The United States is nominally English-speaking; but regionalisms can sometimes make it hard for us to understand eachother. Canadian English is also subtly different and we've drifted from the UK's version quite a bit.

    5. Re:One currency? Bad idea even if possible. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      it looked like the entire civilized world was going to one day be speaking Latin...

      in addition to their native languages. And there will still be accents and slang which differs wherever you go.

    6. Re:One currency? Bad idea even if possible. by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      It may happen sooner rather than later, say in the next ten years, people lose faith in the dollar and euro as a currency, then start using gold for international trade again. People did it for thousands of years, so no matter what "Optimal currency area" theories say, it could happen again.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
  19. Prediction by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Politicians will still be backstabbing scumbags.

  20. Still Waiting... by SuperCharlie · · Score: 2

    Where are the flying cars.. I was told there would be flying cars..

    1. Re:Still Waiting... by w_dragon · · Score: 2

      Are roadable airplanes close enough?

    2. Re:Still Waiting... by fyngyrz · · Score: 1

      NO!

      --
      I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
  21. The worst predictions IMO by martas · · Score: 5, Interesting

    "11. Eighty per cent of the world will have gay marriage (Likelihood 8/10)"

    Seriously? We have so much widespread extremism in the world that you probably couldn't get a majority of countries to agree that milk is white, and they think this'll get done in a measly 90 years?

    "12. California will lead the break-up of the US (Dev 2) (Likelihood 8/10)"

    The US has survived a civil war, a depression that makes this recession look like good times, corporate tyranny that even today seems unthinkable, they have the balls to call this that likely? Look, I'm not saying it can't happen -- it definitely can. But given how (increasingly) inter-dependent and weak the states are (compared to federal gov't powers), this prediction is brave to say the least.

    "13. Space elevators will make space travel cheap and easy (Ahdok) (Likelihood 8/10)"

    To be fair he says it won't be so cheap that the average person can afford it, but I think even suggesting that it could be done within 100 years is again brave. There are just so many obstacles that need to be overcome to make this happen; it could even turn out to be theoretically impossible to create materials that would be necessary.

    "16. Deserts will become tropical forests (jim300) (Likelihood 7/10)"

    More like 1/10. Where's the water coming from? Barring a breakthrough in energy tech that would allow us to cheaply distill sea water, it's never gonna happen (read: it's never gonna happen). The trend today is pretty much the opposite, and I don't see that trend reversing anytime soon in light of increasingly aggressive farming practices and global warming.

    I'd love to be wrong though.

    1. Re:The worst predictions IMO by thomasw_lrd · · Score: 1

      "16. Deserts will become tropical forests (jim300) (Likelihood 7/10)"

      More like 1/10. Where's the water coming from? Barring a breakthrough in energy tech that would allow us to cheaply distill sea water, it's never gonna happen (read: it's never gonna happen). The trend today is pretty much the opposite, and I don't see that trend reversing anytime soon in light of increasingly aggressive farming practices and global warming.

      I'd love to be wrong though.

      I think that's where global warming, and the melting ice caps comes in. When most everywhere else is underwater, the deserts should be getting plenty of rain to make them tropical.

    2. Re:The worst predictions IMO by Tsingi · · Score: 1
      17. Marriage will be replaced by an annual contract

      It's just too good of an idea from the male perspective to ever actually come to fruition.

      Love your sig.

    3. Re:The worst predictions IMO by vlm · · Score: 3, Interesting

      The US has survived ... a depression that makes this recession look like good times

      Check your numbers... the current depression has much worse numbers across the board than the G.D. Crazy, but true. The only numbers that are better are the numbers that are no longer comparable due to redefinition, such as endless redefinition of the unemployment rate, etc.

      "Young People", defined as not living in the nursing home, have this strange idea that America in the 30s was as bad as Germany in the late 20s or late 40s, or Argentina for the past... century it seems. The GD just wasn't that bad, in fact in many ways, it was much better than now. Yes 1/4 of the population was un/under employed, just like now. Yes lots of people lost their homes, just like now. Yes excessive debt destroyed uncountable companies, just like now. Yes millions could not afford food and went to soup kitchens, just like now except we use technology and send them to super-walmart with EBT cards or whatever they're called. Yes we lost a lot of farmland and manufacturing jobs, but not as much as now. Yes fascism and quisling-ism was spreading, just like now. Yes plenty of blaming troubles on immigrants and minorities, just like now. Yes plenty of warmongering to jumpstart the economy, just like now.

      For political reasons we can not admit it, but history will look back on this era as the second great depression.

      --
      "Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
    4. Re:The worst predictions IMO by vlm · · Score: 1

      I think that's where global warming, and the melting ice caps comes in. When most everywhere else is underwater, the deserts should be getting plenty of rain to make them tropical.

      deserts come from latitudinal trade wind patterns, combined with some mountain range rain shadows. Just heating it up isn't going to help any. Strengthing winds and burning out the plants on the borderlands will just make it worse if anything. Nevada is not going to suddenly turn into a rainforest.

      --
      "Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
    5. Re:The worst predictions IMO by martas · · Score: 1

      Interesting; I wonder how they compare in terms of delta-quality-of-life, assuming a reasonable way of measuring that exists.

    6. Re:The worst predictions IMO by thomasw_lrd · · Score: 1

      I was actually thinking of how all that would change when the ice caps melt, and change the weather patterns all over the world. With a warmer climate comes a change in the winds, and more moisture laden air. Al this combined could cause what is now a desert to turn into a rainforest, maybe. Hell I'm not a climatologist or even a futurologist. Just a computer scientologist (not a member of that church, that we are no longer allowed to post stories about on /.), somewhat do i really know. Not much.

    7. Re:The worst predictions IMO by Nethemas+the+Great · · Score: 1

      I'd say the breakup part does bare some consideration. Don't underestimate the power of combining economic collapse with "because f-you is why" people. We already have a majority portion of the latter and the former is all but guaranteed.

      --
      Two of my imaginary friends reproduced once ... with negative results.
    8. Re:The worst predictions IMO by Marxist+Hacker+42 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Hard to admit- but I think in delta quality of life, the Great Recession has been WORSE. It's one thing to go from living in a sod house suffering from dust related tuberculosis to wandering the country sleeping in your car (Grapes of Wrath). It's quite another thing entirely to go from a 4000 square foot McMansion with six TV sets and air conditioning and central heating, to wandering your neighborhood sleeping in your car, to losing the car when you can no longer afford gas for it and your neighbors have it towed as an eyesore.

      I work on the board of directors for an organization serving the homeless- and our volunteers report the streets are getting MEAN from the anger- to the point of homeless people beating each other up over not having cigarettes.

      --
      SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
    9. Re:The worst predictions IMO by timeOday · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Yes millions could not afford food and went to soup kitchens, just like now except we use technology and send them to super-walmart with EBT cards or whatever they're called.

      I think you're underestimating the importance of the social safety net that was created after (and as a result of) the Great Depression: "In 1940, 40% of draftees were rejected, most of them because of malnutrition, bad teeth and eyesight--all results of the Depression."

      Let that sink in for a minute.

      It's easy to complain about the debt incurred in the government's response to this recession. Our ancestors already witnessed the alternative. It was horrendous.

    10. Re:The worst predictions IMO by Hatta · · Score: 1

      "16. Deserts will become tropical forests (jim300) (Likelihood 7/10)"

      More like 1/10. Where's the water coming from?

      Warmer temperatures means increased moisture carrying capacity in the atmosphere. The Sahara was once a rain forest, and it can be so again.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    11. Re:The worst predictions IMO by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The authors of the paper are stuck with a bright, shiny, United Federation of Planets future. Even Star Trek had to resort to a Deus Ex Machina: it was the Vulcans who essentially grabbed Earth by the collar and shook it into a United Earth government.

      11. Eighty per cent of the world will have gay marriage (Paul)

      Gay marriage supporters (in general) breed well below rate of sustainability. Conservative Christians (especially the African and Asian versions not influenced by American liberalism), mainline Muslims, and non-gay-friendly "others" are breeding above to much above rate of sustainability. Without a significant turnaround, Western-style liberals will simply (fail to) breed themselves into irrelevance. I would look for 80% rates of criminal penalties (esp. the death penalty) for gays before I looked for 80% gay marriage acceptance.

      Also, Asian patriarchal societies are seeing 15% to 20% abortion rates for girl fetuses, despite laws against the practice. The US and Britain are seeing 90%+ abortion rates on positive pre-natal Down's Syndrome tests. Science is giving people more and more tools to select against children with undesired traits, and in most societies homosexuality is still an undesired trait. If anyone ever identifies a "gay gene" test (even if only moderately effective), most of the world will start aborting against gay children. 100 years from now, people could look on the gay marriage the way our kids would look at 19th and 20th century laws concerning typhoid quarantine: total amazement that they even existed.

      The rest of the problems with this is unwritten prediction 0:

      0. Energy will become cheaper than and more portable than oil was in the early 1900s

      Oil was at its absolute cheapest from around 1910 to 1940ish. You could stick a pipe in a few very good spots and all the oil we needed would gush out of the ground on its own. You could get sometimes 100 gallons of oil from just one gallon of oil's energy in costs.

      We're now stuck with spending 1 gallon of oil equivalents to get 5-6 gallons of oil out of the ground, and its getting worse. Without some quantum leap, we will not have cheap energy any time in the next 100 years.

      16 isn't possible without water pumped by cheap energy. Weather control is brute force; there's no way we can pull it off without a couple of magnitudes more energy than we have now. Even the societal predictions are based on cheap energy; a liberal society requires cheap labor enabled by cheap energy. Who cares about gay marriage when you're spending 90%+ of available labor and energy just to feed yourself and your dependents.

      I'm not a peak oil gloom-and-doomer. I believe that that energy source is out there, I just don't see anyone making useful guesses as to what it is.

    12. Re:The worst predictions IMO by vlm · · Score: 1

      Not.. exactly. Heres a URL for you

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desert#Formation_of_hot_deserts

      Theres a couple reasons why you get a desert, and most of them relate to global wind patterns based on lattitude, which can change with climate, but a large part of it is fixed. Ireland, for example, is never going to be a desert.

      --
      "Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
    13. Re:The worst predictions IMO by vlm · · Score: 2

      malnutrition due to corn intake leading to obesity is another form of malnutrition also reaching epidemic proportions.

      Death by corn just takes longer than death by starvation.

      --
      "Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
    14. Re:The worst predictions IMO by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      Homeless people have always beat each other up over cigarettes etc. They kill each other with great regularity.

      Part of why they are homeless.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    15. Re:The worst predictions IMO by Marxist+Hacker+42 · · Score: 3, Informative

      More so as of late though- and according to my friend Barb, who walks the streets of Portland, Oregon twice a day- it's the newcomers, particularly the young, who are the angriest. Makes sense though- you had an ambitious father and mother who provided a fancy home and all the toys you could want, then they get foreclosed on and your entire family ends up on the street, your sense of entitlement is going to hit reality awfully hard and you're going to be a threat to society.

      --
      SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
    16. Re:The worst predictions IMO by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Regarding deserts becoming tropical forests, who's to say what the end result of climate change will be?

      In some instances, places that are desert today were forests in the past (Sahara).

    17. Re:The worst predictions IMO by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      Ireland, for example, is never going to be a desert.

      Because you get sankes in deserts, and there are no snakes in Ireland.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    18. Re:The worst predictions IMO by Neil+Boekend · · Score: 1

      That depends on how fast the corn cob is launched.

      --
      Well, I might have a way, but it only works on a semi spherical planet in a vacuum.
  22. I know the answer to that by Hentes · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Hundred years from know futurulogist will write books predicting the same things as those in the article are "just around the corner" and will be available in less than another 100 years.

  23. Re:California Secede? Unlikely by damn_registrars · · Score: 1

    Thank God I'm a Native Texan. At least then I'll be able to move there, and get out of the United States of Fucking America.

    So, you're not living there currently why?

    --
    Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
  24. Re:Interesting......WRONG! But interesting... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why do we always have to go there? We get it, you hate Beck and everything he stands for. This thread has zero to do with him. Please learn the meaning of "off topic".

  25. Obvious One... by mykepredko · · Score: 5, Funny

    100 years from now, Linux will be 5 years from taking over the desktop.

    myke

    1. Re:Obvious One... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      100 years from now, Linux will be 5 years from taking over the desktop.

      myke

      You mean -the- desktop, as only one survives in a museum.

    2. Re:Obvious One... by NJRoadfan · · Score: 1

      ..and GNU HURD will be out in a year.

  26. +100 and the exponential bias by hcs_$reboot · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Retrospectively,
    - in the eighties AIDS was said to be cured by 2000
    - in the seventies nuclear plants were created, expecting all the technical uncertainties to be solved by 2000
    not mentioning studies, novels, sci-fi movies that made an unsuccessful attempt to describe a world in a 30~50 years future
    And they want to predict the world in 100 years from now?

    --
    Slashdot, fix the reply notifications... You won't get away with it...
    1. Re:+100 and the exponential bias by vlm · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Retrospectively,
      - in the eighties AIDS was said to be cured by 2000

      Is that all so far from the truth? The outlook at that time was a global pandemic across all people, spread thru hospital blood transfusions, medical and dental treatments, maybe swimming pool water... Looking at the stats, now its sort of a chronic lifestyle disease of certain subcultures, like smoking, sorta.

      From my personal perspective, in my social subculture, its basically cured by lack of transmission, and is not relevant for fearmongering or FUD.

      Its probably going to end up "controlled" like malaria or TB rather than apparent utter eradication like smallpox, but for all practical purposes, its no longer a threat.

      --
      "Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
    2. Re:+100 and the exponential bias by Isaac-1 · · Score: 1

      Well AIDS was made mostly survivable by 2000 or so and nuclear power plants would probably be a lot more advanced today if we had not stopped building them in the early 1980's

    3. Re:+100 and the exponential bias by jackbird · · Score: 1

      ...in the first world. Infection/mortality rates in Africa are terrifying.

    4. Re:+100 and the exponential bias by Marxist+Hacker+42 · · Score: 1

      Even there, among certain subcultures (cough, Catholics) the transmission rate is at or near zero. Eventually, the other subcultures, haven proven themselves unable to survive, won't.

      --
      SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
    5. Re:+100 and the exponential bias by vlm · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Even there, among certain subcultures (cough, Catholics) the transmission rate is at or near zero. Eventually, the other subcultures, haven proven themselves unable to survive, won't.

      Its interesting how on an individual basis we've tried to halt evolution and don't allow individual euthanasia. But on a cultural / subcultural level, if they as a group wanna fail, or self destruct themselves, we pretty much sit back and let them.

      --
      "Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
    6. Re:+100 and the exponential bias by Marxist+Hacker+42 · · Score: 1

      Yes, though one could argue that the Vatican and the African Bishops are trying hard to wean the tribes off of stupid superstitions like having sex with a virgin cures AIDS and polygamy means less work for the wives.

      But sometimes I think we should just stop trying to influence other cultures- just let them be and let God/Evolution work it all out in the end. The gay marriage thing is another *obvious* form of cultural suicide.

      --
      SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
    7. Re:+100 and the exponential bias by Em+Adespoton · · Score: 1

      Retrospectively,
      - in the eighties AIDS was said to be cured by 2000

      Is that all so far from the truth? The outlook at that time was a global pandemic across all people, spread thru hospital blood transfusions, medical and dental treatments, maybe swimming pool water... Looking at the stats, now its sort of a chronic lifestyle disease of certain subcultures, like smoking, sorta.

      From my personal perspective, in my social subculture, its basically cured by lack of transmission, and is not relevant for fearmongering or FUD.

      Its probably going to end up "controlled" like malaria or TB rather than apparent utter eradication like smallpox, but for all practical purposes, its no longer a threat.

      I take it you live in the USA?

      In Africa, HIV is a part of life -- everyone knows people who have it, and everyone knows people who've died from it. While HIV/AIDS hasn't become a global pandemic, it has definitely destroyed large parts of Africa.

      However, I do agree with the "controlled" like malaria or TB comment. Antibiotic-resistant TB strains are increasing throughout the world, and TB is slowly becoming less controlled. Similarly, malaria is keeping pace with global warming; each year, the affected mosquitoes are moving further towards the poles. I expect something like this will happen with AIDS as well.

      However, unlike Malaria and TB, I expect us to find a solution that keeps HIV in remission sometime in the next 100 years.

        I also expect that the malnutrition in the North American diet will run its course by then, and that desalination technology will be extremely advanced, since the great US aquifers will be almost totally drained.

      The problem with predictions is that most long-range advances are due to people by necessity attacking problems that haven't surfaced yet, and finding novel solutions. Who knows? Maybe will find the cure to lawyers and investment brokers by then too....

    8. Re:+100 and the exponential bias by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Retrospectively,
      - in the seventies nuclear plants were created, expecting all the technical uncertainties to be solved by 2000

      You mean, kinda like how they are?

      We have the technical certainty to build completely, passively safe, nuclear power plants for ages. Longer ago than just 2000. It's not technical uncertainty that stops them, it's political uncertainty.

    9. Re:+100 and the exponential bias by RatherBeAnonymous · · Score: 1

      Even there, among certain subcultures (cough, Catholics) the transmission rate is at or near zero. Eventually, the other subcultures, haven proven themselves unable to survive, won't.

      Its interesting how on an individual basis we've tried to halt evolution and don't allow individual euthanasia. But on a cultural / subcultural level, if they as a group wanna fail, or self destruct themselves, we pretty much sit back and let them.

      Are you suggesting that euthanasia is related to evolution? Euthanasia is normally practiced on or by those who are already removed from the gene pool by disease or disability. There are some exceptions with advancing reproductive technology. The way you state this, it sounds like you are talking about eugenics. I hope that was not your intention.

      Cultures must adapt to changing times in order to survive. Culture is, in part, an effort of the human animal to adapt faster and in different capabilities than evolution can accommodate. Northern cultures adopted styles of dress that allow humans to cope with cold temperatures faster than evolution would have given us thick fur coats. Desert cultures domesticated animals that helped humans to survive arid climates faster than we could evolve water retaining humps. Tribalism sprang up to help groups survive in a dangerous world. With agrarian cultures, as population density increased more pacifistic religions emerged to help knit tribes together and promote behavioral norms that allowed people to coexist better. Monogamy arose to ensure a male's property was inherited by his own offspring. Cultures that no longer help one survive will either not be practiced any longer, or the people practicing them will die out, or they will adapt and thrive.

      As a whole, I think people have sympathy for suffering individuals, not groups. It is easier to help a repressed woman or child than to change the religion or caste system that oppresses them. It is easier to help individuals ravished by the AIDS epidemic in Africa (or world wide for that matter) than to have empathy with those uninfected or unknowingly infected individuals who refuse to use condoms or practice abstinence due to social mores. It is easier to sympathize with a gay or lesbian couple you know who are denied marital status than to take action and reform laws defined by the majority's religious views.

  27. sounds like cyberpunk 2020 by afabbro · · Score: 1

    There are some indications already that California wants to split off and such pressures tend to build over time.

    This reads like a bad RPG supplement.

    --
    Advice: on VPS providers
    1. Re:sounds like cyberpunk 2020 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There are some indications already that California wants to split off and such pressures tend to build over time.

      This reads like a bad RPG supplement.

      There was nothing bad about CP2020! jerk!

  28. slashdot is by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    going down the tubes, isn't it?

  29. Re:California Secede? Unlikely by thomasw_lrd · · Score: 1

    I live in Arkansas, so I figure that they will just join the Republic of Texas, and I'm good either way.

  30. Flying cars? by punker · · Score: 1

    Where are the flying cars?! We were promised flying cars!

    1. Re:Flying cars? by AdrianKemp · · Score: 1

      http://www.terrafugia.com/

      (I haven't kept in the loop on it, but they built one that works and I think they even got all the appropriate green lights to actually make them)

    2. Re:Flying cars? by roc97007 · · Score: 1

      100 years from now, society will finally give up on flying cars.

      --
      Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
    3. Re:Flying cars? by rubycodez · · Score: 1

      there have been flying cars for decades. they're called private planes. yes, you have to be a pilot to own or operate one, which is reasonable.

    4. Re:Flying cars? by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      there have been flying cars for decades. they're called private planes. yes, you have to be a pilot to own or operate one, which is reasonable.

      You also have to be pretty rich, unlike owning a car.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
  31. Some good news ... by Kittenman · · Score: 1

    In the 70s (I was around) "they" were predicting that we'd be out of oil by the turn of the century.

    --
    "The greatest lesson in life is to know that even fools are right sometimes" - Winston Churchill
    1. Re:Some good news ... by Isaac-1 · · Score: 1

      Don't forget the ads with the grand kids walking around a waste land with gas masks (hmmm wonder if that is where Terra Nova fot the idea?)

    2. Re:Some good news ... by rubycodez · · Score: 1

      the sad truth is we have centuries of supply of fossil fuel. I don't give a shit about global warming, but do care about pollution including ocean acidification. plenty of smart ways to get our power, no shortage of energy on this world.

    3. Re:Some good news ... by 32771 · · Score: 1

      Your fossil fuel supplies aren't up against the pressure of exponential growth:

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-QA2rkpBSY

      Most other resources aren't either.

      --
      Je me souviens.
    4. Re:Some good news ... by rubycodez · · Score: 1

      It is clear from the 2nd derivative of world population that we'll peak with 8.5 billion somewhere around 2075, and then world population will shrink. We do indeed have centuries of fossil fuel supply.

    5. Re:Some good news ... by 32771 · · Score: 1

      2075 is probably too late for some resources, phosphates come to mind. I'm still not sure about your centuries, but let me grant you the demographics argument.

      --
      Je me souviens.
    6. Re:Some good news ... by rubycodez · · Score: 1

      we have centuries of supply of phosphate too but the avoiding a peak in about 100 years is simply a matter of recycling instead of wasting it. Longer term, the element phosphorous itself is not rare, 0.1% of crust of the earth, but it energy intensive to extract the element and build the chemicals we need.

    7. Re:Some good news ... by 32771 · · Score: 1

      Well once you start looking at net energy the picture becomes bleaker. To sad that all the theory is so squishy around it, i.e. where do you draw boundaries when looking at EROI.

      --
      Je me souviens.
  32. 2112 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I think people forget that 100 years from now... we'll all have been dead for about 99.5 years.

    1. Re:2112 by rubycodez · · Score: 1

      only the non-chosen will die right before this Christmas/Kwanzaa/Hannukah 2012. The chosen will save a bundle on gifts.

  33. Re:California Secede? Unlikely by blair1q · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Texas isn't going anywhere, either.

    People who want to get elected in Texas use that to cadge votes, because it works, but once they find out you can't defend a nation with a posse carrying six-guns any more and the amount it will raise their taxes to become a real military power with a full Army, Air Force, Coast Guard (370 miles of coastline in the smugglingest water in America), and Border Patrol (1250 miles of border with Mexico, over 60% of the whole border; plus 1400 miles with New Mexico, Okalahoma, Arkansas, and Louisiana). Duplicating the rest of the functions of the federal government won't be a cakewalk, either, and don't pretend they'll just let that all fall flat. Economies of scale mean that being a part of the entire nation is cheaper than going it alone. And Texas' physical scale makes it more expensive to administer, not less. Throw in the added expense of commerce across borders, and no protections against tarriffs from the commerce clause, and businesses in the state doing any business out of state will be crippled.

    And Texas is hardly monolithic. Split it off from the U.S. and the next thing that happens is that West Texas will insist on separating entirely from East Texas, and East Texas would be just fine with that. So there's only so far the political fixers in the state are willing to take the issue beyond claptrap at campaign rallies.

    It's theater, nothing more.

  34. First Turning by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    In 2112, we will most likely be early into the First Turning of the saeculum after the next one.

    Basically, we'll be in the future version of the late 1940s/early 1950s and we'll have recently won the future version of WW2.

    1. Re:First Turning by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 1

      In 2112, we will most likely be early into the First Turning of the saeculum after the next one.

      I'm probably going to regret asking... but what the Sam Hill are you going on about?

      --
      Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
    2. Re:First Turning by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Generational theory.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strauss-Howe_generational_theory

      http://fourthturning.com/my_html/body_turnings_in_history.html

      http://fourthturning.com/html/history___turnings.html

  35. No, you wouldn't be better off by MikeRT · · Score: 1

    California's problems are first and foremost political. There is no political will to actually clean up your state's problems with spending too much money. You have a prison guard union that has managed to make generous six figure salaries the norm, not the exception, for its employees and California has the largest prison population in the US--even compared to states like Texas and Florida which rival it in population size. You spend more on average for public schools than most of the union, but have little to show for it compared to many other states with equivalent wealth production capacity.

    Why? Because your state is a microcosm of the mentality that is crushing the federal government. The complete and utter inability to say "no, you've already gotten enough and aren't getting anymore."

    1. Re:No, you wouldn't be better off by PCM2 · · Score: 1

      You spend more on average for public schools than most of the union, but have little to show for it compared to many other states with equivalent wealth production capacity.

      Errr, no we don't. Per capita, California is somewhere in the middle. New York spends almost twice what we do. Don't forget that California is the most populous state in the nation by a long shot, and the figure isn't going down.

      There is no political will to actually clean up your state's problems with spending too much money.

      Some of that is because spending was voted in through Propositions, via California's direct-democracy system. Basically, if it collects enough signatures, a special interest group can get a spending measure on the California ballot that requires X amount of public funds to be set aside for Y purpose, and the public gets to vote on it, basically doing an end-run around their own elected representatives. If it's passed, the legislature has a hell of a time getting it off the books, because "it's what the people want." This has happened many times over the years, and the result is that a lot of otherwise sensible-sounding budget decisions are effectively off the table.

      --
      Breakfast served all day!
    2. Re:No, you wouldn't be better off by DragonWriter · · Score: 1

      California's problems are first and foremost political.

      True.

      There is no political will to actually clean up your state's problems with spending too much money.

      That's no more true of California than of most other jurisdictions. Insomuch as California has unique challenges, its that it has political structures which require extraordinary broad political support to make certain changes in tax and spending policy, which make much of the budget impervious to change even with the degree of political will that would suffice in other jurisdictions.

      California has the largest prison population in the US--even compared to states like Texas and Florida which rival it in population size.

      Neither Texas nor Florida rival California in population size. Texas has about 2/3 the population of California, Floriday has about 1/2 the population of California.

      You spend more on average for public schools than most of the union

      Actually, spending per student (calculated by average daily attendance), California public K-12 spending in 2009-2010 (the most recent year I can find rankings for) was 43rd out of 51 (states + DC), with 81.8% of the national average.

  36. Cryogenics by PseudonymousBraveguy · · Score: 1

    Ob xkcd

  37. Re:Interesting......WRONG! But interesting... by ScentCone · · Score: 1

    Just out of curiosity, what's your point? I mean, I get that you don't like him and everything. But how does it help your credibility to actually lie? You want to point out your distaste for someone else's world view through deceit? What are you, twelve?

    --
    Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
  38. No more humans by na1led · · Score: 1

    The Human population can't survive another 100 years. I think we have reached our limit with capicity and resource plunder. We've poluted the planet and poisend atmosphere, and with vast improvements in computers, the world will be taken over by artificial intelligence who will see Humans as a virus to the planet.

    --
    -- By all means let's be open-minded, but not so open-minded that our brains drop out.
    1. Re:No more humans by Marxist+Hacker+42 · · Score: 1

      If we can make it until 2060, the 66% of the human population currently alive who are over the age of 55 will be dead, and since the remaining generations haven't had enough children to replace them, we'll see each person owning six houses after the market correction.

      --
      SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
    2. Re:No more humans by gestalt_n_pepper · · Score: 1

      No. There will be a large die-off, but inhabitable zones will persist in Greenland, Canada and Siberia as well as areas in the Southern hemisphere, some spots in Australia, a few islands and so on. By some estimates, Earth supported almost one billion humans before widespread fossil fuel use. The final population depends on remaining arable land and how widespread radiation poisoning from old nuclear weapons, decaying nuclear plants and hospitals is. The bottleneck could go as low as a few million and perhaps as high as 200 million, worldwide.

      --
      Please do not read this sig. Thank you.
    3. Re:No more humans by marcosdumay · · Score: 1

      And then tht AI will finish all fossil fuels availabe, polute every square meter of land and sea, destroy all life on Earth, and get out of this rock to repeat it all through the galaxy. How can it look at us as a virus?

      But I bet both of us are wrong (except for this bet and this disclaimer, that are right).

  39. Can we get New jersey to break off? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And maybe NYC, too?

  40. California wants to split off? by roc97007 · · Score: 1

    Then, how would they get the federal money they need each year to avoid going broke? I suspect the author got that slightly wrong -- the rest of the country wants California to split off. There, fixed it for you.

    (A Californica ex-pat)

    --
    Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
    1. Re:California wants to split off? by jackbird · · Score: 1

      They'd replace federal taxation, of which they get back about 78 cents of every dollar in federal services, with an income tax scheme that gave them 100 cents of every dollar. Also, they could charge ground rent on the US military bases that will inevitably remain on their soil.

    2. Re:California wants to split off? by l0ungeb0y · · Score: 1

      It's common knowledge that California gives out more tax revenue than it gets back from the Feds. /Glad you're gone, and hope you stay gone

    3. Re:California wants to split off? by TallDarkMan · · Score: 1

      Then, how would they get the federal money they need each year to avoid going broke?

      There is this multi-million dollar industry based on the growing, selling, and refinement of a certain kind of weed that grows profusely in the North-western United states.

      On a side note, I'd love to see the movement for the State of Jefferson actually turn into a movement for a "Country of Jefferson"!

      (although, I'd personally choose a different name, I think).

      --
      Will draft for food...
  41. ...a more likely scenario by AntEater · · Score: 3, Insightful

    - The divide between the wealthy and the poor continues to grow. Globally, the middle-class is virtually non-existent. Most of the world lives just above a subsistence level.
    - Biodiversity reaches an unprecedented minimum. Between over harvesting and habitat destruction, whole ecosystems have disappeared from the earth. People debate whether many of the large land mammal species ever actually existed or if they were part of a mythology.
    - Petroleum is unquestionably depleted and too expensive for use other than by the military and the extremely wealthy.
    - War continues as we fight over the dwindling remains of our natural resources.
    - Welcome to the surveillance state.
    - World population continues to increase, although at slower rates due to famine, disease and widespread war.
    - The US has virtually no national transportation infrastructure since the social and political will never appeared to move away from the automobile before before gasoline prices and the maintenance of our roads became financially untenable.
    - global warming continues with unimaginable impacts on coastal regions.
    - chaos is the only predictable quality of life.
    - No Linux on the desktop and the desktop computer itself will be an antiquated notion.

    I wish I could jump on board with the techo-fantasies but I don't think that's where we are going - at least not for the majority. Now I'm depressed...

    --
    Alex, I'll take keybindings not used by Emacs for $400....
  42. Re:California wants out? Awesome! by Beelzebud · · Score: 1

    California pays out more than they take in...

  43. 100 years from now... by roc97007 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    ...we will be just 50 years away from practical fusion power.

    --
    Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
  44. Didn't some Canadians make an album about this? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    eh?

  45. Breakup of the US - HIGHLY Unlikely by Zontar_Thing_From_Ve · · Score: 1

    The US Civil War was fought specifically to answer that question. The USA is not Canada. There is no way to leave the union. Period. That question has an answer. While certain ignorant politicians like Rick Perry like to talk tough about seceding from the USA, there is no constitutional mechanism to allow this. There's no reason to conclude that the US wouldn't just simply use military force to preserve the union if it came down to it like they did in the Civil War. It's difficult to imagine that California, which is the economic engine of the USA, would simply be allowed to leave with a shrug of the shoulders as the other 49 states watch the US economy tumble to perhaps being on par with Italy or worse without California. I'd like to point out too that California basically feeds the USA as well. Their agricultural output is vast. They're not leaving without a fight.

    While I do expect some languages to simply disappear due to lack of relevance, expecting languages like Russian, French, German and Japanese, just to name a few, to disappear is not realistic. Languages that will disappear will be languages that are already endangered. People in human history have show a willingness to kill over language issues. 100 years from now for all practical purposes we'll have just as many languages with over 100,000 speakers as we do today.

    1. Re:Breakup of the US - HIGHLY Unlikely by vlm · · Score: 3, Insightful

      This is all based on the assumption that what is today, will continue forever, which is wrong.

      California, which is the economic engine of the USA

      As the acceleration of jobs leaving for China and India increase.... What is CA once the last manufacturing job moves to China and the last info/tech job moves to India? Well, they have a lot of farms, and ...um...

      I'd like to point out too that California basically feeds the USA as well. Their agricultural output is vast.

      Hmm thats a slight exaggeration, probably because they produce a bit more than, say, Nevada, or New Mexico, but ...

      Once the aquifer dries up, wait for the next big drought so the rivers run dry, and that's the end of that. Which is not so bad, because you can rely on the vibrant factories and office buildings full of programmers, err, wait see above.

      Sure, some big cities full of people. What happens when the big earthquake hits? Hmm. Well when a big hurricane hit N.O., we abandoned them and its still in a tailspin at a fraction its current size. After the cities in CA are perma-depopulated, what next?

      There's no reason to conclude that the US wouldn't just simply use military force to preserve the union

      What if "we" wanted to get rid of CA? You're assuming only a healthy vibrant state can/could exist. Imagine straight line extrapolation of no more agriculture, no more industry, no more people in the cities after the earthquake, everyone who can move, has left ... We've bought land from other countries, who's to say we wouldn't sell CA to MX for barrels of oil? Or a 99 year lease agreement? Imagine a piece of land with no realistic future economic value mostly populated by citizens from a neighboring country, you need something from that neighboring country, they offer up a "lease" or "trade" or something like that, secession doesn't have to be violence from outside the power structure, it probably will be from within the power structure. Maybe we'll make a treaty that CA and the SW is "NAFTA-land" in general and a new province of .mx in practice, legally technically remains our land, outsource management of everything outside our .mil bases to .mx, in exchange we get first dibs on whatever oil they have left. I could see that happening. Not a shot would be fired, just a bunch of treaties and trade agreements...

      100 years from now for all practical purposes we'll have just as many languages with over 100,000 speakers as we do today.

      And COBOL programmers will still be in demand. No I'm not kidding.

      --
      "Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
    2. Re:Breakup of the US - HIGHLY Unlikely by Livius · · Score: 1

      Originally it was quite possible for states to legally and peacefully secede, and theoretically new states created out of real estate that was US government property had the same rights as the one which were originally sovereign entities (the thirteen founding states plus Vermont and Texas). Once those 15 became the minority (1850), the point of view changed.

    3. Re:Breakup of the US - HIGHLY Unlikely by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      Once the aquifer dries up, wait for the next big drought so the rivers run dry, and that's the end of that.

      Which aquifer are you talking about? Most agriculture in California is watered from the San Joaquin river system, not from aquifers. And there is a LOT of agriculture, it's some of the most fertile ground in the country, with topsoil measured in feet.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
  46. Time for stupid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Space
    Space colonies
    External colony on another planetary body
    Flying cars
    Flying trains (hey why not?)
    Floating cities in both the sky and ocean.
    We'll be building pyramids again
    The first, true, 3D city. Not this 2.5D crap we have built now.
    Underground city (wait, that might not be stupid, someone is planning this due to building regulations)
    Underwatttter city.
    Dinosaurs.
    Teleportation of macro-scale objects
    Working forcefields
    Pirates
    Media industry will be happy, productive participants in society, creating content for the sake of creating content and being rewarded handsomely.
    Slashdot will still be here.
    We will all have beowulf clusters in our back pockets connected to our brains with...
    The new brain-computer interface 3 connection, 14 exabits faster! AWE!
    4chan is a nice place.
    Anonymous now own a country.
    Their queen is an autistic anime character who believes she is an alien.
    CNN will have a relevant news story.
    The human race is doomed due to lovebots. There is only 1.4billion humans left after the lovebot wars.
    I will complete this list on my deathbed, while being hugged by my robotic lovebots. Cuz I be getting all the bots.

  47. California breaking off by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Maybe the San Andreas fault line will help them break off... and slide into the ocean! Good riddance Hollywood!

  48. Re:Interesting......WRONG! But interesting... by LVSlushdat · · Score: 1

    Was waiting for one of the inevitable "Beck/Hannity/Limbaugh" haters coughing up his vomit all over the forum, and lookee here, I wasn't disappointed.. Hey Bozo! We understand you bat-s$$t insane liberals can't live without actively hating people who disagree with them, but why don't you just go over there in the corner and hate these gentleman privately.. Just another datapoint on liberals.. They absolutely CANNOT tolerate ANYBODY who disagrees with them and rather than simply saying "I disagree with you, so we'll just have to agree-to-disagree on where this country is going", liberals feel the need to actively HATE these people, using terms that would be classed as "Hate Speech" by the same liberals IF these Conservative voices were to use the same terms to describe liberals. Dr Michael Savage has the modern liberal classified perfectly as being afflicted with a mental illness...

    --
    THANK YOU, Edward Snowden!! Americans owe you a debt of gratitude (whether they know it or not..)
  49. Sleepwalking to destruction. by emil · · Score: 4, Insightful
    As Ray Kurzweil has pointed out, if Moore's law holds for another 30 years, a machine intelligence a billion times more powerful than all of humanity can emerge. Ambitious projects to emulate more and more complex biological intelligence in silicon are well underway.

    What would such a thing need us for?

    What is even more disturbing is that the exponential trend identified by Moore can be found in completely unrelated economic figures, energy use figures, patent volume figures, and many more.

    Humans seem destined to ride an exponential wave, and not to notice until it's too late.

    And all the while, the Fermi paradox waits before us like a dark chasm.

    1. Re:Sleepwalking to destruction. by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 1

      As Ray Kurzweil has pointed out, if Moore's law holds for another 30 years, a machine intelligence a billion times more powerful than all of humanity can emerge. Ambitious projects to emulate more and more complex biological intelligence in silicon are well underway.

      What would such a thing need us for?

      Someone's gotta pedal those generator bikes after all the oil's gone...

      --
      Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
    2. Re:Sleepwalking to destruction. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Transistor density doesn't equal intelligence. There seems to be something missing in AI technologies that I suspect has more to do with us being unable to imagine something "greater" than ourselves. Although I am familiar with the idea you propose, we just don't ever seem to get any closer.
      As regards the exponential wave, it all depends on your scale. It doesn't seem so impressive when you enlarge the scale by a factor of 10.
      That aside, I think the very existence of the internet will give birth to some kind of higher intelligence (if it hasn't already).

    3. Re:Sleepwalking to destruction. by marcosdumay · · Score: 1

      Sorry, but an AI killing us does not solve the Fermi paradox.

    4. Re:Sleepwalking to destruction. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Much more likely: we're headed for a crash, or a leveling off, not an exponential boom. Real systems don't work like that. Eventually you run out of resources and the whole thing grinds to a halt. That's why Kurzweil is a fucking moron.

    5. Re:Sleepwalking to destruction. by Malvineous · · Score: 1

      As Ray Kurzweil has pointed out, if Moore's law holds for another 30 years, a machine intelligence a billion times more powerful than all of humanity can emerge.
      [...]
      What would such a thing need us for?

      This argument always irks me. There are a lot of things in this world humans have no use for, but that doesn't mean we actively seek out and destroy them just because. If machine intelligence did arise I think it's far more likely it would eventually just ignore us and go about its business without us.

      Of course humans have a tendency to pamper certain animals - cats and dogs mostly - although there is no "need" to do so. This means all we have to do is make sure we design robots that find humans irresistably cute and cuddly and then we've got it made.

    6. Re:Sleepwalking to destruction. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This argument always irks me. There are a lot of things in this world humans have no use for, but that doesn't mean we actively seek out and destroy them just because. If machine intelligence did arise I think it's far more likely it would eventually just ignore us and go about its business without us.

      "The AI does not hate you, nor does it love you, but you are made out of atoms which it can use for something else." - Eliezer Yudkowsky

    7. Re:Sleepwalking to destruction. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As Ray Kurzweil has pointed out

      Animal cells survive best in an alkaline environment with a blood pH of 7.35 to 7.45. Plant cells are the opposite; they prefer an acidic environment. As our bodies become increasingly acidic, some cells adapt through an internal evolutionary process and become more like plant cells. These abnormal plantlike cells have a high tendency to become cancer cells, which thrive in an acidic environment. So an important strategy for preventing or treating cancer is to maintain an alkaline environment in the body.

      Another issue concerns the infrastructure of water. Magnetic resonance imaging reveals that most tap water is organized into microclusters of about 12 water molecules each. In alkalinized water, the microclusters are reduced in size to only six molecules per cluster. This enhances the permability, solubility, and absorption of the water, thereby boosting its detoxification effects.

      Therefore, simply by increasing the pH of the water we drink, we'll cure cancer.

    8. Re:Sleepwalking to destruction. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      that's funny for two reasons: 1) Ray Kurzweil says a lot of bullshit about AI. 2) Machines have never been intelligent up till now. Just smart programmers.

    9. Re:Sleepwalking to destruction. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why would the machine need to get rid of us?

      captcha: goodbye :(

    10. Re:Sleepwalking to destruction. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As Ray Kurzweil has pointed out, if Moore's law holds for another 30 years, a machine intelligence a billion times more powerful than all of humanity can emerge.

      Machines require humans to program them, to tell them what to do. How can humans program those machines to act more intelligently than they are themselves?

    11. Re:Sleepwalking to destruction. by mjwx · · Score: 1

      As Ray Kurzweil has pointed out, if Moore's law holds for another 30 years, a machine intelligence a billion times more powerful than all of humanity can emerge. Ambitious projects to emulate more and more complex biological intelligence in silicon are well underway.

      What would such a thing need us for?

      OK, Moore's Law is about the number of transistors, not about computing power.

      Second, having the hardware with 1000 times the power of the human brain is pointless without the software intelligence and independence. Without self determination it's no different to computers today. Same if it doesn't have the ability to modify it's own code base.

      Thirdly, why do we assume a being of vastly superior intelligence will view us as hostile. It may simply view us as we view children. Those who simply dont know any better and are to be guided. AI government which could instantly understand the needs and desires of every single represented citizen would lead to an age of unprecedented peace and freedom (which is just as likely as Judgement day, the robot is looking for Sarah Connor, she left her purse at the shop). Not to mention the reduction in corruption.

      Would a creature of logic and reason seek to exterminate an entire race, that sounds more like a being of hatred and malevolence. Why do we assume computers will develop the worst of human traits.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    12. Re:Sleepwalking to destruction. by blindseer · · Score: 1

      A computer capable of viewing us as children might feel the desire to protect us as a parent would do. This protection they provide might be well intentioned but also very detrimental to our own survival. This would not be out of hatred or malevolence but because of a lack of foresight or information.

      This has a parallel with a parent that is so overprotective of a child that the person grows up to be naive, misinformed, lacking in basic survival skills, and/or lacking in other ways necessary to live as an adult. We also see this in government programs which are supposed to help people but instead leave them worse off than before. The intention for good is there but because of some failing in the means the end is not achieved.

      There's plenty of science fiction that plays on this. A common theme is of a computer system that slowly takes over the mundane tasks of our lives. This evolves to where the computer takes over less mundane, essentially becoming our government. The terrible end to mankind comes when this caregiver computer fails, goes "insane", or does not account for some factor outside the scope of its programming. The "X factor" has varied in these stories from human ambition, alien invasion, disease, some natural disaster, or some combination of those factors.

      What we perceive as a malevolent act might be considered something the computer views as necessary for the improvement of mankind (on a wide scale) or for the improvement of its own master (on the small scale). One story that comes to mind is a short story of a family that bought a robotic maid to cook for them and help them lose weight. The robot suffered damage in an attempt by the father to change the parameters of the diet. The robot proceeded to lock them in their home, cut off all communication (can't have them call for pizza you know), and put them on a weight loss program with no lower limit. The story ended implying that they would eventually starve to death.

      This benevolent master computer we might someday create could lead to some utopia of unending peace and freedom. It could also turn into a horror story as we are all slowly killed by the kindness of this benevolent master.

      --
      I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
    13. Re:Sleepwalking to destruction. by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      As Ray Kurzweil has pointed out, if Moore's law holds for another 30 years, a machine intelligence a billion times more powerful than all of humanity can emerge.

      IF.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    14. Re:Sleepwalking to destruction. by urusan · · Score: 1

      Actually, the Fermi paradox simply implies that the future will be extreme. Consider the alternative to our destruction: we are the first technological civilization to emerge in the Milky Way and we will spread across the galaxy, preventing any new civilizations from emerging through our meddling. There are no aliens because we are the first and we are the first because we will prevent them from arising in the future. By the way, this event hardly requires currently thought impossible sci-fi technology like FTL. Using slower than light colony ships makes a lot more sense with technology like nuclear fusion, molecular nanotechnology, and life extension.

      Most importantly, the time it would take to colonize the galaxy using STL ships is not too long in geological/eveolutionary terms. Even using fusion engines it should be quite possible to colonize the entire galaxy in a million years. While that is a long time, it is nothing compared to the billions of years that life took to evolve. It is in the same ballpark as the entire time humans have been around (especially if we shorten the colonization time with better propulsion technology like antimatter engines). So, unless alien civilizations all appear around the same time for some reason, it seems very likely that the first civilization to emerge (and successfuly spread to space) would prevent all the others from emerging.

      The only long-term future that the Fermi paradox argues against is one similar to the present day. We are almost certainly in a transition period, either to annihilation or a galaxy-spanning singularity-like future.

  50. Re:California Secede? Unlikely by Nethemas+the+Great · · Score: 1

    Amen to that. In so many ways I've long thought Lincoln a fool for trying to hang on to the south. As the saying goes "a house divided cannot stand". We might have kept the union together in name but they've done nothing but tear it apart ever since. Both sides have strong and largely opposite beliefs that if implemented may well be able to create a self-sustaining if not prosperous nation. Trying to combine the two has proven anything but productive and most certainly detrimental.

    --
    Two of my imaginary friends reproduced once ... with negative results.
  51. Demographics by fxars · · Score: 1

    There was no comment on demographics in these predictions. Much of the world is actually de-populating because of a low birthrate. That's quite an omission.

    1. Re:Demographics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah but then the Space Nutters run out of ammo. Their usual "argument" is that we're overpopulated. How empty dead rocks and a few tin cans filled with kerosene are supposed to help they never say.

  52. Re:California Secede? Unlikely by Nethemas+the+Great · · Score: 1

    Why because of the crime, poverty, and lack of good healthcare for the non-elite of course.

    --
    Two of my imaginary friends reproduced once ... with negative results.
  53. A hundred years from now... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    ...People will be laughing at the outlandish stuff predicted in that article.

    1. Re:A hundred years from now... by maxwell+demon · · Score: 1

      ...People will be laughing at the outlandish stuff predicted in that article.

      Sorry, they won't. Because by then this article will be long lost and forgotten.

      --
      The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
  54. To compare, check out 1900. by elistan · · Score: 5, Informative

    Predictions of the Year 2000 from The Ladies Home Journal of December 1900
    http://www.yorktownhistory.org/homepages/1900_predictions.htm
    Some spot on. Others... not so much.

  55. Copyright makes predicting the future easy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    A hundred years from now, copyrights will have been repeatedly extended to last their current length plus a hundred years.

    As a result, very few new developments will have been made, and the future will look pretty much like the present.

  56. Re:California Secede? Unlikely by rubycodez · · Score: 1

    you're wrong, Texans also have long guns and some other things, and that is sufficient as U.S. finds out but does not learn over and over and over in Afghanistan, Iraq, Viet Nam, Korea.
    Texas receives less federal benefit than it pays. cut out the middle man, as they say.

    Texas allows illegal to come and work, what additional new border patrol is needed?

  57. Re:California Secede? Unlikely by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I appreciate all the hard work you have done to combat bigotry and bridge gaps to help make the world a better place.

  58. THX1138 by na1led · · Score: 1

    That's how the world will be in 100 Years!

    --
    -- By all means let's be open-minded, but not so open-minded that our brains drop out.
  59. Postdoctoral needed for entry level jobs by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 1

    So get reedy to spend 6-8+ years in a class room before starting a job.

  60. Questions lack vision by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    These questions lack vision. Here are the questions reworked to make them more plausible:

    1. Oceans will be extensively farmed and not just for fish, and these farms will later be sold off turned into developments with cul de sacs street layouts.
    2. We will have the ability to communicate through thought transmission, except for women who still will speak a language not understood by men.
    3. Thanks to DNA and robotic engineering, we will have created more assholes that will now be immortal.
    4. We will be able to blame the weather on the sun.
    5. Antarctica will be unionized.
    6. One single worldwide currency that is worthless.
    7. We will all be wired to computers to make our brains work less.
    8. Nanorobots will flow around our body fixing cells, and will soon takeover turning us into batteries.
    9. We will have sussed nuclear fusion, but it never will be adopted due to patent litigation.
    10. There will only be three languages in the world - English, American, and the Binary Language of Moisture Evaporators

    and finally, I would add...

    11. Mainframes will still be around.

    1. Re:Questions lack vision by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      12. Linux on the desktop.

  61. Re:Interesting......WRONG! But interesting... by slimjim8094 · · Score: 0

    Was waiting for one of the inevitable "Beck/Hannity/Limbaugh" lovers coughing up his vomit all over the forum, and lookee here, I wasn't disappointed.. Hey Bozo! We understand you bat-s$$t insane conservatives can't live without actively hating people who disagree with them, but why don't you just go over there in the corner and love these gentleman privately.. Just another datapoint on conservatives.. They absolutely CANNOT tolerate ANYBODY who disagrees with them and rather than simply saying "I disagree with you, so we'll just have to agree-to-disagree on where this country is going", conservatives feel the need to actively HATE these people, using terms that would be classed as "Hate Speech" by the same conservatives IF these liberal voices were to use the same terms to describe conservatives. Dr Michael Savage has the modern conservative classified perfectly as being afflicted with a mental illness...

    Taking all bets as to which sounds more realistic. Almost overwhelmingly the people calling to tone it down a bit are liberal. Well, as liberal as the current Democratic party is, which is center-right. Meanwhile, the conservatives are calling on their base to get their guns and electrocute Mexicans.

    --
    I have developed a truly marvelous proof of this comment, which this signature is too narrow to contain.
  62. +Inf Insightful by c++0xFF · · Score: 2

    I actually took an elective called "The Future of Technology" for my undergrad degree.

    The whole field is a bunch of BS and guesswork. It makes Psychoanalysis look like a hard science. I would sooner believe someone who says the world will end on December 12, 2012, than any "futurologist."

    And the reason is exactly as you said: all they want is for people to believe what they say, and pay them money to say more.

    From my own observations, there seem to be two types of "futurologists:"
    1) Those who make grandiose and sensational predictions, from the perspective of "wouldn't it be cool if..." or even "the worst thing I can think of is...." Their audience is anybody who will listen and pay them to write an article.
    2) Those who try to predict the next short-term trend before it happens. Their audience generally consists of technology and investment companies, who pay them directly for their insight as a consultant.

    My favorite example of the first type is a committee who claimed the USA would wake up one day in the near future, unable to afford to feed itself. Europe would have to step in and bail them out, delivering subsidized food. In reality, recent events have shown that the global economy is so tied together that if the USA ever got in that much trouble, there's no way that Europe would have the resources to help on that scale.

    The second type reminds me of a Pinky and the Brain episode where the Brain predicts the next modern art craze will be paintings of doughnuts. Someone really does stand a chance at making a fortune if they can correctly predict the near-term trends in technology. (Or if they can drive the trend how they want, see also: Steve Jobs). Predicting those trends is very risky and expensive, however, and I don't even want to think about the cash that's been lost trying to catch the next big wave before it even forms, only to have it never materialize.

    Most predictions on the future of technology are absolutely and amazingly incorrect ... the rest are just lucky guesses.

    1. Re:+Inf Insightful by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      It is still worth thinking and arguing about the possible long term effects of science, technology, politics and so on. Just because you're never going to be entirely accurate doesn't make the debate valueless.

      Personally, I find these things are better presented in terms of fiction. "Nineteen Eighty Four" didn't stop being important and influential just because it didn't accurately describe reality in 1984.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
  63. Re:California Secede? Unlikely by damn_registrars · · Score: 0

    I appreciate all the hard work you have done to combat bigotry and bridge gaps to help make the world a better place.

    The loudest people in Texas want their state to be a third-world country. To them, I say go ahead.

    --
    Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
  64. Re:California Secede? Unlikely by tverbeek · · Score: 1

    There are all sorts of "secession" pressures, in every direction. I'd rather just see the country broken up into several smaller countries, like the old Bell System was. Here's one plan for it that makes some sense: Dividing Up the States

    --
    http://alternatives.rzero.com/
  65. Secession by PPH · · Score: 1

    California and the East Coast will attempt to secede from the Union. The Midwestern and Southern states will send in troops to stop them.

    Taking advantage of the confusion, Canada will invade across the border with the support of Native Americans and Hispanics. Upon reaching Washington DC, they will burn the capitol and take control the country. Following this, the Southwest will be returned to Mexico and much of the remainder of the former USA to the First Nations peoples.

    --
    Have gnu, will travel.
  66. Breakup of the US by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I don't see it as being very likely, but personally, I'd be thrilled to get rid of California and the East Coast. Having those nutjobs around is a real drag, they keep pushing stuff onto the rest of us that we don't want. They can go off on their own and ruin their lives how ever they see fit.

  67. Civil War? by uvajed_ekil · · Score: 1

    The last time someone tried to break up the Union, there was a bloody war. I would not be okay with California simply leaving! That is, unless I get 20 acres of prime land in Napa. Or near San Luis Obispo, I'm not picky!

    --
    This is a hacked account, for which the owner can not be held responsible.
  68. Washington by helipod · · Score: 1

    Well, I'm still waiting for eastern WASHINGTON to break away and be the State of Lincoln I bet the break up of the united states will be in the next 20 years. however keep in mind that this is from a current highschool student.

  69. Predictions suck by uvajed_ekil · · Score: 1

    I just want the damn flying car and the robot butler I was supposed to get before the year 2000.

    --
    This is a hacked account, for which the owner can not be held responsible.
    1. Re:Predictions suck by bussdriver · · Score: 1

      I want the 30 hour work week with a month vacation that was supposed to happen by 2000. They never saw corporatism coming...

      Where's the realistic and depressing predictions?

      More people, fewer jobs, more robots and software doing the work.

      Increased average work week. (seems contradictory...maybe everybody is part time and under employed.)

      Smaller or weaker middle class in 1st world nations.

      Recognized fall of the USA empire by 2025 (likely 2020. quote me.)

      Rich people live twice as long as the lower classes.

      The great debate over A.I. being life; what is life and many philosophical and religious issues as CS treads into people's ego boundaries (and many professions.)

      Standardized micro-payments and increased surveillance. Think of the possibilities!

    2. Re:Predictions suck by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      I want the 30 hour work week with a month vacation that was supposed to happen by 2000.

      In Europe at least, a 35 hour week and six weeks holiday is not unusual. Even here in the UK the standard hours are 7 or maybe 7 1/2 hours a day (i.e. eight less lunchtime) and 20 days + public/bank holidays is the statutory minimum.

      Oddly enough, without the evil socialist-slanted government interfering, employers don't tend to agree that shorter hours and longer holidays are a good idea.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
  70. No. California is not like Quebec by bussdriver · · Score: 1

    CA (as a state) is no parasite; far from it. California pays more federal taxes and receives back less money than probably any other state. In the USA, people don't even realize states like CA and NY support loser states like Texas; CA gives and doesn't get much back; while many southern states are a drain on the nation financially. People think the Greek situation is bad... we've been "bailing out" over half our states for a century.

    CA has internal state-level money problems which in many ways reflect the nations problems; if they kept that federal money instead of losing it to poor states they'd be far better off. They also have a similar political problem; their budget situation is worse because their rules enforce the dysfunction which at the federal level the GOP is purposely causing dysfunction by choice. They've said as much; at some point they can start doing their job; in CA a lot of problems are written in law so fixing things involve 1st in fixing the system. For example, in CA a filibuster like rule is law on the budget while in the US Senate it is just a DoS attack. Another example is yearly budget battles (vs 2 yrs.) Another example is off-the-table big budget items.

    I'm not connected to CA; but the parent was so far off

  71. Re:California Secede? Unlikely by damn_registrars · · Score: 1

    but once they find out you can't defend a nation with a posse carrying six-guns any more and the amount it will raise their taxes to become a real military power with a full Army, Air Force, Coast Guard (370 miles of coastline in the smugglingest water in America), and Border Patrol (1250 miles of border with Mexico, over 60% of the whole border; plus 1400 miles with New Mexico, Okalahoma, Arkansas, and Louisiana). Duplicating the rest of the functions of the federal government won't be a cakewalk, either, and don't pretend they'll just let that all fall flat. Economies of scale mean that being a part of the entire nation is cheaper than going it alone. And Texas' physical scale makes it more expensive to administer, not less. Throw in the added expense of commerce across borders, and no protections against tarriffs from the commerce clause, and businesses in the state doing any business out of state will be crippled.

    From my vantage point, it seems that many of the loudest mouths in Texas want to see their state turned into a third-world country any ways. I say let them go ahead and try. Set up an amnesty program for the first year or so, enabling the 12 intellectuals left in their state time to get out, and some of our crazies time to go in, and then say goodbye and good riddance.

    --
    Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
  72. I'm still waiting for 1984... by billybob_jcv · · Score: 1

    ...and Space 1999, and 2001 AND 2010...

  73. WTF? Cali secede? lol by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Nice GOP slant on the U.S. part of the story. The only people wanting to secede are Tea Partiers and last I looked they were 10% of the GOP. The reasons why Cali would want to go are things that can be dealt with nationally, i.e., legalize marijuana, gay marriage and whatever else the GOP is deathly afraid of yet cannot point to a rational reason why.

  74. Breakup of the USA Versus Reality by quarkscat · · Score: 2

    The breakup of the USA explicitly implies a new Civil War, hardly possible considering the heavy balance of military power in favor of Empire. The Powers That Be would rather slaughter 9/10th of the civilian population, more in keeping with the advance of the eugenics programs envisioned by the New World Order. "Hope and change you can believe in" has left the building, with a Unitary Executive even more powerful under Obama than existed under Bush the Lessor.

    The future doesn't so much repeat the past as it does rhyme with it. Prognostications of the future 100 years hence tracks more closely with the dystopian science fiction novel by George Orwell's "1984". "If you want to know what the future holds for humankind, imagine a boot stomping a human face, forever."

    War is Peace.
    Freedom is Slavery.
    Ignorance is Strength.

  75. Re:California Secede? Unlikely by multimediavt · · Score: 1

    Honestly, if you think about the problem of a state seceding from the U.S. for more than a few days you begin to realize that it's genuinely impossible without a foreign government helping in a MASSIVE way, i.e., supplying all the things missing below; like the French (and some Spanish) did for us against Britain. That would not go unnoticed nor would it be allowed to even come close to happen, let alone actually happen. Here's what would be needed, immediately upon declaration of secession (because, you would NOT be given a grace period, folks!):

    1. Currency (You think you're keeping U.S. dollars? What are you Quebec?)
    2. Credit (Ch'yeah, right! In this century?!?! Please!)
    3. An Army (and NO, you can't have any of OUR equipment!)
    4. A Navy (LIKE THE DOG FACE SAID!)
    5. A Merchant Fleet (cuz, you ain't drivin' on our highways to get to a port)
    6. Customs and Border Patrol (cuz, if you don't put up fences and guard posts, WE WILL!)
    7. ...

    And the list goes on, and, on, and on... The real biggies are the ones listed above. Sorry, a foreign power is not going to mass troops and ships anywhere near us to support something like this without a BIG STINK! Besides, most of the people that want to secede don't like foreigners, so them having any hope at all of succeeding on their seceding would compromise their core principles to begin with. Idgits! Go ahead, secede! Morons! You're like a petulant child that threatens to run away from home, does it, and then comes back when he/she gets cold or hungry. Baaaaa! Do it! I dare ya!

  76. Re:California Secede? Unlikely by multimediavt · · Score: 1

    Oh, and California grows a large percentage of our fruits and vegetables. Like we're gonna let those get away! Mmmmmm, avocados, artichokes, and garlic!

  77. Look at the history of predictions for precedent by flibbidyfloo · · Score: 3, Interesting

    In 1900 some predictions were made by "most learned and conservative minds in America" about what life would be like in 100 years. Now that it's a decade past that deadline, let's take a look at how they fared:

    http://www.yorktownhistory.org/homepages/1900_predictions.htm

    Interestingly, they got some of them right. But these were mostly about the spread of technology that already existed at the consumer level, and all good futurists know that predicting price drops in manufactured conveniences is usually a safe bet.

    Some of my favorites (with a few of my comments):

    - Gymnastics will begin in the nursery, where toys and games will be designed to strengthen the muscles. A man or woman unable to walk ten miles at a stretch will be regarded as a weakling. (Ha!)
    - There Will Be No Street Cars in Our Large Cities. All hurry traffic will be below or high above ground when brought within city limits. In most cities it will be confined to broad subways or tunnels, well lighted and well ventilated, or to high trestles with “moving-sidewalk” stairways leading to the top. These underground or overhead streets will teem with capacious automobile passenger coaches and freight with cushioned wheels. Subways or trestles will be reserved for express trains. Cities, therefore, will be free from all noises. (Ha!)
    - No Mosquitoes nor Flies. Insect screens will be unnecessary. Mosquitoes, house-flies and roaches will have been practically exterminated. Boards of health will have destroyed all mosquito haunts and breeding-grounds, drained all stagnant pools, filled in all swamp-lands, and chemically treated all still-water streams.
    - Strawberries as Large as Apples will be eaten by our great-great-grandchildren for their Christmas dinners a hundred years hence. One cantaloupe will supply an entire family. Melons, cherries, grapes, plums, apples, pears, peaches and all berries will be seedless.
    - There will be No C, X or Q in our every-day alphabet. They will be abandoned because unnecessary. Spelling by sound will have been adopted, first by the newspapers. English will be a language of condensed words expressing condensed ideas, and will be more extensively spoken than any other. Russian will rank second.
    - ...coal will have become more and more expensive. Man will have found electricity manufactured by waterpower to be much cheaper. Every river or creek with any suitable fall will be ... making electricity.
    - Hot and Cold Air from Spigots. Hot or cold air will be turned on from spigots to regulate the temperature of a house as we now turn on hot or cold water from spigots to regulate the temperature of the bath. Central plants will supply this cool air and heat to city houses in the same way as now our gas or electricity is furnished. Rising early to build the furnace fire will be a task of the olden times. Homes will have no chimneys, because no smoke will be created within their walls. (They sort of got the end result right, but not the means)
    - Vegetables Grown by Electricity. In cold weather he will place heat-conducting electric wires under the soil of his garden and thus warm his growing plants. Electric currents applied to the soil will make valuable plants grow larger and faster, and will kill troublesome weeds.
    - Few drugs will be swallowed or taken into the stomach unless needed for the direct treatment of that organ itself. Drugs needed by the lungs, for instance, will be applied directly to those organs through the skin and flesh. They will be carried with the electric current applied without pain to the outside skin of the body.
    - There will be no wild animals except in menageries. Rats and mice will have been exterminated.
    - To England in Two Days. Fast electric ships, crossing the ocean at more than a mile a minute, will go from New York to Liverpool in two days.

    Prophets always make the same predictions: we'll have better versions of

  78. Dyeoffs? by fyngyrz · · Score: 2

    Huge dyeoffs of humans

    What are you saying? Prejudice will kill them after we color them purple?

    --
    I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
    1. Re:Dyeoffs? by Marxist+Hacker+42 · · Score: 0

      No, I'm saying that 2/3rds of the population of the Earth *right now* is over the age of 55, and if demograpic trends continue (birth rates have been falling worldwide for a century now, the only reason the third world hasn't reached ZPG is because they started with 19 kids per family, but now they're down to 3 or 4) and science doesn't find a cure for the deadly disease of turning 136, we're going to lose between 5-6 billion to OLD AGE between 2040 and 2090, give or take a few decades. And we don't have the kids to replace them. By 2100, the world's population could easily fall to 4 billion, and some demographers are predicting 2.3 billion.

      --
      SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
    2. Re:Dyeoffs? by fyngyrz · · Score: 1

      WHOOSH!

      --
      I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
  79. Blind Marxist tossers... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    100 years from now?
    Well, in only 25 years from now, whites will be a minority in every previously all white country on Earth. Won't that be great.
    In 35 years from now, the muslims and other non-white parasites will have murdered us all, and plunged all those previously white countries into the Dark Ages, and China will just walk in and take everything.

    But I forget! We're not allowed to discuss this, are we...

  80. Predicting Life 100 Years From Now by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If the human species isn't completely extinct by then the survivors will likely be living in conditions similar to those which existed in the 14th century. I'm glad I won't be around to see that.

  81. Traffic Jams on the same roads by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yes, traffic jams will still be a problem. The roads built have mostly been set in stone, so to speak, such that the same roads will exist 500, 1000 years and beyond.

    The 405 freeway will get worse. Imagine what it will be like in 3012? 16 lanes wide...

  82. Dark future by Maxo-Texas · · Score: 3, Interesting

    A hundred years from now,

    If things don't blow up, most people will live in conditions we consider to be poverty with regard to food, water usage, and vacation today.

    However, there will be a lot of electronic entertainment and it's possible that via direct input to the brain we'll have the experience of great vacations and fine food which would mitigate that.

    We'll have so many people crammed on the planet that a decent lifestyle will be impossible unless we find a way to directly manufacture food from energy.

    If things do blow up...
    We'll be mostly dead from bio warfare
    Or actual warfare disrupting food transportation resulting in the death of billions.
    Or a small scale nuclear war with similar effects.
    Or a mass dieoff when the oceans finish collapsing, some kind of virus kills our monoculture crops, and we just can't produce enough food and distribute enough water to keep things going.

    And it's increasingly likely the future will be as predicted in the 50's. An eternity of the boot of the rulers on the face of humanity without end as the weapons become good enough and the social control systems become effective enough that revolution is no longer possible.

    --
    She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
  83. Frickkin lasers by fyngyrz · · Score: 1

    By traveling through the lymphatic system, or actually through the flesh, or starting on top of the flesh and only eating until it hits blood vessels, which would be enough to annoy you severely, at the very least. Or by eating the laser, or some essential part of its mechanism.

    --
    I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
  84. Stupid predictions by gatkinso · · Score: 1

    The United States breaking up? That would require that nations still existed. Companies will have taken over the role of national governments long before 2112.

    --
    I am very small, utmostly microscopic.
  85. Re:California Secede? Unlikely by gmhowell · · Score: 1

    I dunno. I live on the east coast of the US, and most of my produce has stickers indicating it came from South America.

    --
    Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon
  86. Re:California Secede? Unlikely by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    busy day for you there, damn_registrars? six comments as damn_registrars, and two as logical_failure, all in one day - did you call in sick to work or something?

  87. Weather Control? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "There is already some weather control technology for mediating tornadoes, making it rain and so on..."

    Mediating tornadoes? WTF are they talking about? There's exists no such thing!
    Even the technology for "making it rain" is not at all that useful or significant. What a complete
    crap article.

  88. Can't Predict The Economy 2 Years Out But... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    want us to believe their 100-year predictions? What horseshit.

  89. Summary by S3D · · Score: 1

    Immortal telepathic cyborg overlords will overthrow governments, force human peons to farm ocean while their robotic henchmen impregnate hapless human females.

  90. RetroFuture by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    All I know is that in 100 years this article is going to be all the rage with the Retro Future crowd.

  91. Western Australia by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Here in OZ, Western Australia has threatened to secede from time to time. They believe that they generate a lot of revenue from mining, and would be better off without us easterners. The truth may differ, depending on whose numbers you read. I give them about as much chance of splitting as California in the near term.

  92. Underwater Farming! by Niscenus · · Score: 1

    Just like the 60's! And the 80's! Finally, those underwater farms are finally here! So...what..another century from when we were supposed to have them the first time?

    --
    "Yeah...it was the numbers that were irrational, not the murderous cult of vegetarians...." -- Hippasus of Metapontum
    1. Re:Underwater Farming! by bridgey655 · · Score: 1

      We have the technology right now.. it is just not done because perhaps there is not profit in it. www.thevenusproject.com

  93. My top prediction; No oil by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No Arab oil, No Dubai.

  94. 10 year prediction by deodiaus2 · · Score: 1

    I just want to know what technologies will be still be around in 10 years if I am still working.
    I saw an ad for a FORTRAN programmer on Slashdot.org today, I maybe I was too haste in removing FORTRAN and InstallShield from my resume. Either that or a 1000 people applied for that one opening.

  95. We are not special. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Times are though. Technological acceleration and the exponential character of innovation seem to dictate that it's impossible to predict where we are going.
    People seem to think that 2012 is just '1962 but 50 years in the future' and 2062 will be '2012 but 50 years in the future'.

    It didn't. And it won't. Past performance is no guarantee of future results. You are not special. The US is not a special empire. You will not curb change and innovation. Huge armies of people in the 1st world are working in a field or function that didn't even exist 32 years ago. Think about that for a minute.
    When i was born in 1979 my parents could not foresee me sitting at home behind a device more powerful then all computers at that time combined reading an article about how all this current technology will be laughable in about 10 years time.

    Policymakers should be aware that things change rapidly. Predicting the future might be impossible, predicting that things will be different isn't. ie. Thinking about reforming pension might have been unnecessary and ridiculous the last 50 years, it won't be the coming 50. Same goes for things like work, energy, medicine and transportation. Basically everything.

    In the future things will change and people will progressively lack the foresight to adapt to it.

  96. Why so many rooms? by tempest69 · · Score: 1

    Haven't you seen the fifth element?

  97. If the south breaks away by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Oddly were not Iraq, a civil war in the US would not be something that would be evaded by a quick move up to Cleveland.
    The US has an amazing amount of resources, military, and educated people.
    And we're good at war.. not the nation building security stuff, the stuff where we turn a country's infrastructure to pudding.
    Selling real estate? The banks wouldn't be able to communicate, and even if you went with paper cash, the other side would flood the market with fake cash, destroying the currency. Then you need to worry about the odd biologist going full monty with a terror weapon, some nasty contagion, or perhaps a pest that can only exist in certain climates. Adding a plant virus to an insects saliva isn't as remotely out there as a person would hope.

    We have robotics, and the people who can use them effectively.
    Have you seen the samsung sentry bots that SK has built?
    A laser guided projectile isn't beyond the skill of a skilled hobbyist in the US.

    A real US civil war would be a nightmare, and that's assuming that everyone keeps the good sense to lock down nuclear weapons.

    1. Re:If the south breaks away by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      Maybe I'm missing something, but I'm just not really seeing how a full-scale civil war would happen in this country. This isn't like Syria or Saddam's Iraq (during the Shia uprising), where one group of autocrats is in power and another group is trying to free themselves, while the autocrats are attempting to put down the insurrection. It's an empire, and empires tend to simply fall apart. Just look at the Soviet Union in the early 1990s; one day it was there, the next it was gone (not quite that fast, but pretty close). All of a sudden, republics started breaking away, and the central government didn't do anything about it.

      It also isn't like the first Civil War, where there was a moral cause that was used to justify putting down the insurrection by force (slavery), and a lot of patriotic fervor about unity. There's no such causes any more, and there isn't that much patriotism either, just a lot of resentment about Washington. The country is a LOT bigger than it was back then; back in those days, the entire West was basically unpopulated, and there were no Hawaii or Alaska (or Guam etc.). Not so any more.

      Worrying about some violent civil war seems rather silly to me. Instead, I think the previous poster is correct; after various groups of states break away to form their own new countries, some of these new countries are going to go down the toilet quickly, because they'll elect bad leaders based on bad principles (i.e., the south will elect a bunch of Tea Party types who espouse a lot of religious stuff to get votes but while in power prove to be extremely corrupt and will eliminate all government safeguards on industry, i.e. no more FDA to make sure your beef doesn't have mad cow disease), while other countries will do much better than they're doing these days by getting rid of the influence of the people in the other regions, and also by not having to send so much money to Washington to be mismanaged. So smart people will want to get out of the places that turn into Somalia clones before realty prices crash, and move to the regions that do well.

      For a parallel, look at Eastern Europe before and after the fall of Soviet Communism. Assume for the sake of argument that, before the fall, it was fairly easy for you to move to one of the various Soviet-controlled regions or countries. Would you rather move to Belarus in 1989, or would you rather move to the Czech Republic? CZ's economy has boomed ever since they got free of the Soviets, while Belarus hasn't gone anywhere.

  98. Unimaginative extrapolations will not do by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Obvious extrapolations that completely underestimate the approaching technological singularity and the exponential growth of knowledge resulting from strong AI.
    Predicting the future a century from now is pointless, since it is quite unimaginable. Our descendants then will look back on us as short-lived barbarians, unimaginably violent and self-destructive. They will have redesigned human DNA to create Homo sapiens II.

  99. We Wont Use Money 100 Years From Now, Or Even 10! by bridgey655 · · Score: 1

    Are you kiddin' me? Did you get an economist to sponsor this story? The monetary is destined to fail, it is a paper debt based currency with no relation to anything in the physical world. We will have migrated to a resource based economy way before the next century. See more at: http://www.thevenusproject.com/en/the-venus-project/resource-based-economy. Money holds us back as a species. We have the resources if managed efficiently and effectively to overcome all problems together. What we don't have is the money to do so. Aids isn't cured because there are so many companies profiting heavily from treatments. It's the same all over, profit makes the world go round.. but maybe not for long, if you want it.

  100. Re:We Wont Use Money 100 Years From Now, Or Even 1 by bridgey655 · · Score: 1

    *Monetary system

  101. THE UK just loves to pretend that the US is by ToddInSF · · Score: 1

    an empire in decline, like theirs has been for a century. And that they'd even still exist, were it not for Canadian assistance during the war.

  102. Re:California Secede? Unlikely by tehcyder · · Score: 1

    Texas isn't going anywhere, either.

    Couldn't the rest of the US just agree to sell Texas to China to clear off some of the national debt?

    --
    To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
  103. Human Nature by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Because of human nature, all past governments have eventually been consumed by another future human government. Mankind has been in turmoil for well over 6000 years. This is not going to change. You are no better than your predecessors.

    The only way it can change is with our creators help (here goes the flames! I said creator!). He's the one who made us, and he is the one that will eventually fix it. Read Rev. 21:3,4 & Psalms 37:10,11. The fix will occur in our lifetime...we just need to be patient.

  104. Re:Look at the history of predictions for preceden by RatherBeAnonymous · · Score: 1

    Gymnastics will begin in the nursery, where toys and games will be designed to strengthen the muscles. A man or woman unable to walk ten miles at a stretch will be regarded as a weakling. (Ha!)

    I'd estimate that the average American can already walk 10 miles at a stretch, they just don't know it. Human beings are amazingly efficient walkers. I watched a mid 40's woman, ex-smoker, in apparently average shape (overweight), hike 8 miles in one day, in the Appalachians, wearing ~40 pounds of camping gear, and rising 2500 feet in elevation. On a level path on a mild day with aqueduct hydration and a bag of GORP, 10 miles is easy. Finding the motivation to do so is much harder.

  105. Re:Look at the history of predictions for preceden by flibbidyfloo · · Score: 1

    I wonder if that wasn't the case 100 years ago. I was more amused by the idea that baby toys would be more like dumbbells. instead we went the other way and they are now all designed to strengthen the brain instead of the body. Imagine if all our babies were like this kid: http://filmdrunk.uproxx.com/2009/04/real-life-mutant-baby-is-super-strong

  106. Re:Look at the history of predictions for preceden by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I watched a mid 40's woman, ex-smoker, in apparently average shape (overweight), hike 8 miles in one day, in the Appalachians, wearing ~40 pounds of camping gear, and rising 2500 feet in elevation.

    I strongly suspect that that hiker was too sore to even get out of bed the next day...

    The context of that 10-mile-walk prediction is that a much higher minimum fitness level would be in place today, such that walking ten miles is not something that would yield a solid week of groaning just to stand up. Few of us are in that kind of shape (me included, sadly).

    - T

  107. Canada by phorm · · Score: 1

    One thing I've noticed... going north in Canada is often a lot like going south in the U.S. (not in a good way)

  108. Re:California Secede? Unlikely by Plugh · · Score: 1

    New Hampshire will be the first to secede.
    Mark my words.

  109. there are tinier states than Texas on this earth by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So... Switzerland has only 44'000 something square kilometers, Texas has some 600'000. How should Texas not be able to search and partrol borders? Switzerland has a paranoid border patrol and we even keep them employed into the Schengen Treaty. I am dead sure Texas has enough Oil left for itself, enough Silicon Valley, enough solar installations or the possibility, enough banking, insurance, infrastructure and attitude to secede. If you compare Switzerland with Texas, then Texas has obviously the better starting position, be it energy, society (homogeneity etc.) or place on earth. good luck!

  110. You can't predict, you project by jweller13 · · Score: 1

    You can't really predict anything, you can only project with some level, X, of certainty.

  111. Photosphere by Niscenus · · Score: 1

    We've had the technology for decades. Between regulations and supplementing light and heat, we may have hit a few problems. A tidal generator would be needed for most operations below 2m of water.

    --
    "Yeah...it was the numbers that were irrational, not the murderous cult of vegetarians...." -- Hippasus of Metapontum
  112. Re:California Secede? Unlikely by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

    If Texas split, West Texas would be separate with the capitol of West Texas being Midland/Odessa (El Paso has more people, but they are brown and count against it). San Antonio would be capital of South Texas, Amarillo or Lubbock would be capital of Panhandle Texas, Longview (or Beaumont) for East Texas, Houston for Gulf Texas and Fort Worth for North Texas (Dallas is happy being "near" everything and the center of nothing, see where the Dallas Cowboys and Texas Rangers play), and of course, Austin Central Texas. These states of Texas would administer themselves much like states int he US do now, very subserviant to the federal TX government (rather than a confederation of independent states, which was more the original US idea). I think it would work, and I don't think the borders are that much an issue. For one, just like Canada and the US have a "weaker" border than US/Mexico, Texas wouldn't have that big an issue with Louisianans casually crossing or such, unless there was some massive problem with the US that caused movement (which would be as big or bigger a problem for Canada).

  113. Huge omissions by urusan · · Score: 1

    What kind of article predicting the future 100 years leaves out widespread robotic automation and augmented reality? These are technologies that are maturing right now.

  114. More accurate than not. by neoshroom · · Score: 1

    Even some of these you seemed to have singled out as incorrect, are more correct than incorrect.

    For example, on the gymnastics one, you cut out: "Exercise will be compulsory in the schools. Every school, college and community will have a complete gymnasium." That part definitely has come to pass. Also, the general thrust of the whole thing was correct. Physical education in the current era has more emphasis than it did in 1900. You are sort of thumbing your nose at the idea that an emphasis on gymnastics will begin in the nursery as we live in an era where the government is promoting a Let's Move initiative for children.

    For the fruit one, while most did not happen in a widespread, practical way one did. Practically all grapes bought these days are seedless. In addition, some of these, if not broadly adopted are also not unheard of. We can grow huge fruits if there was any practical reason to, for example, strawberries the size of apples. I'd also be willing to bet fruits are bigger than they used to be in 1900, but there isn't much of a point to grow them monstrously big.

    To England in Two days sounds silly at first, but if you read the description of the craft it describes, "supported upon runners, somewhat like those of the sleigh. These runners will be very buoyant. Upon their under sides will be apertures expelling jets of air. In this way a film of air will be kept between them and the water’s surface. This film, together with the small surface of the runners, will reduce friction against the waves to the smallest possible degree" sounds a lot like a hovercraft. The passenger-grade hovercraft linked to can do 83 knots or about 95 miles per hour. New York to London is about 3500 miles. So, it would take 37 hours roughly to travel on this ship from New York to London, or in other words, two days. So, really, the prediction came true, it just didn't end up being a popular mode of transport since we have faster and easier ways to traverse the distance.

    He may also only be about 50 years off on the no-cars-in-cities prediction.

    All in all these predictions were remarkably accurate and even a few of these "wrong" ones came pretty close.

    --
    Big apple, new Yorik, undig it, something's unrotting in Edenmark.
    1. Re:More accurate than not. by flibbidyfloo · · Score: 1

      Sort of the point I was making is that accurate predictions are notoriously difficult because it's hard to imagine disruptive technologies and where they will take us. Sure, we could have giant fruits and super-fast ocean liners, but we don't, for a variety of reasons.

  115. Re:California Secede? Unlikely by blair1q · · Score: 1

    I think El Paso would go to Mexico or New Mexico, in case of a subdivision. No reason at all to keep it in Texas, and, other than the easy route through the mountains (it's called "el paso" for a reason), no reason to keep it in America. It's really East Juarez.