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Man Who Downloaded Bomb Recipes Jailed For 2 Years
chrb writes "Asim Kauser, a 25-year-old British man, has been jailed for two years and three months for downloading recipes on how to make bombs and the toxin ricin. Police discovered the materials on a USB stick Asim's father gave to them following a burglary at the Kauser family home. Asim pled guilty and claimed that he only downloaded the materials because he was curious. A North West Counter-Terrorism Unit spokesman said, 'I also want to stress that this case is not about policing people's freedom to browse the Internet. The materials that were downloaded were not stumbled upon by chance — these had to be searched for and contained very dangerous information that could have led to an explosive device being built.'"
Title should read, "Man arrested for possibly planning to become a terrorist". But still, arrested for criminal possibility.
His potential crime would have been a physical one. It needed bomb ingredients, guns, etc... He had none of the equipment, just the knowledge.
Everything about his crime is just conjecture. How do you prove that he WOULD have done anything. Were there dates of action?
I guess what it boils down to, if you're gonna have "evil" thoughts, don't write them down.
Pre-crime, here to protect you from yourself.
I'm feeling less special every day. I used to think I was a paranoid outsider. Nope, just observant.
Why do the countries witht the highest Press Freedom Index have to be so damned cold.
Update: Looks like Cape Verde has risen in the rankings... Hrmm...Might be worth the change of address.
"Helping to keep you two steps ahead of the Thought Police!"
Should have claimed someone left the USB stick.
So I got this copy of the "Anarchist Cookbook", is this terrorism?
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
Dangerous to the state, that is. Oh well, gotta remember that the UK has no real free speech rights codified into law.. for what that's worth..
For justice, we must go to Don Corleone
I am guessing the people who brought him up on charges have never actually read a science textbook. Sure its a little winded and takes a while to get to it, but by reading the average science textbook from jr high and above you can figure out how to create some pretty dangerous chemical reactions that should scale fairly well. Knowing about something and being jailed for it it thought crime. Trying to set limits on the human condition of curiosity and interest could pave the path of a dangerous road.
They ALSO uncovered letters where he stated he was prepared for jihad and was seeking guidance, plus he'd gone so far as to spec and price out his weaponry.
He wasn't just some curious chemist who happened to have an arabic-sounding name.
Prosecuting someone for a device that "could have been built" (if only the suspect had things like a motive, and the materials) is like slapping me with a paternity suit for all the girls I "could have got pregnant" (if only they would have sex with me).
Let's face it: this guy's crime was not downloading information on bombs and ricin. His crime was downloading said materials while having a Middle Eastern name.
[Sir Garlon] is the marvellest knight that is now living, for he destroyeth many good knights, for he goeth invisible.
Richard Hammond and Jon Tickle made me into a terrorist when they showed me how to make Thermite! Go arrest them!
Uh, oh, I am really worried about myself. Not only can I think of many ways I could construct explosive or incendiary devices, I can think of OVER 100 WAYS TO KILL someone! And there are quite a few people I don't really like! Many of them are sitting in the parliament (note: I am Greek) so they have connections to the police!
I am surely a prime suspect for potential terrorism, murder, political assassination and I don't know what else!
Oh, shit! I just realized I know where the VAGINA is! Potential for RAPE right there!!!
Where do I hide guys???
Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent. Polar Scope Align for iOS
FTFA: A further examination of the stick revealed a letter, addressed to an unknown recipient, in which the author - again anonymous but referring to himself as a 24-year-old man - seeks spiritual guidance and says he has prepared himself physically and financially for jihad.
If you want to become a bomb disposal expert, trial and error is a poor way to learn.
IANAL. Conspiracy to commit a felony can be punished pretty severely as is evidenced by this situation. Some people will argue that this tramples rights because you cannot even read something without risk of going to jail. The flip side is how do you arrest someone that is planning on blowing up a building without this law? Do you wait until they blow up the building so you can actually arrest them? What about someone planning to kill someone or rape someone? Do you wait until they commit the crime to arrest them or arrest them when you have enough evidence that they are planning to commit the crime? What if someone was planning to kill you or blow you up? Wouldn't you want them arrested BEFORE they killed you?
Yet another person who doesn't know what a police state actually is... Hint: The UK is not one, and not even close.
Um.. They died centuries ago. Congrats on keeping up with the news.
You may also be interested to hear that Henry Tudor is no longer married to Anne Boleyn. And a "New World" has been discovered across the Atlantic Ocean. Stay tuned to hear whether that place turns out to be interesting.
Interesting that later in the article we find the following quote from Detective Chief Superintendent Tony Porter: "This case has never been about proving an endgame and we may never know what his intentions were". So they admit to not knowing his intentions, how can they in good conscience say they are arresting him for intent?
Where, exactly?
Why, the U.S. government, of course.
Military manuals, like most other government publications, are by law public property here in the U.S.
And you probably won't find better instructions on making homemade or impromptu explosives, than U.S. military manuals. I mean some really nasty, horrific sh*t. They are freely available on the market, and must be kept public, by law.
Please explain to me how you could justify arresting, much less convicting, someone for possessing information distributed by our own government that is, by law, public information. I don't think you could.
I firmly believe that the best way to protect yourself from ANY kind of weapon is to know about said weapon. How it is built and how it works. Therefore, trying to censor such information is a crime against society.
A lot, depending on jurisdiction. If you're in an urban area, there's probably noise restrictions, and explosions are likely too loud. Most cities have broad prohibition on all things explosive in significant quantities, with the intent being that nobody can stockpile enough to blow up anything important. Certain chemicals used to make explosives or that are byproducts of the explosion itself are also highly toxic, so releasing them in your backyard may be a serious health risk for your neighbors.
That said, there are folks who jump through the necessary hoops to set up gatherings at appropriate jurisdictions, but I won't be mentioning any names on Slashdot. If you're interested, try contacting your local police and asking them. Get to know them personally (in a non-stalking kind of way), build a good reputation for being responsible, and see what information they can give you, like perhaps a local chemist with a nice field outside town...
You do not have a moral or legal right to do absolutely anything you want.
According to TFA, the man wasn't convicted just for downloading bomb and toxin recipes. There was also a letter where he said he had prepared himself for Jihad, and a shopping list with prices on items such as AK-47s, grenade launchers, ammunition and so on.
Of course, that's the prosecution's version, so it may still be biased, but one shouldn't pretend he was convicted just for downloading information off the Internet.
Prepared for jihad. That's your argument.
If I wrote a letter that said I am prepared financially and spiritually for violence and had a shopping list containing weapons. Should I be arrested?
If I have a erection and tell a friend, "Man, I'd really like to rape that chick." Should I be arrested?
The question isn't whether terrorism should be illegal, it's whether unclear and unsubstantiated intent is illegal. Were the plans for when and where he would strike?
No, just a letter saying he was ready if called.
As much as I detest violence and (insert all bad things here), I vehemently oppose others controlling what I'm allowed to think.
"Helping to keep you two steps ahead of the Thought Police!"
You should probably read the article, rather than the cherry-picked, out-of-context summary.
It is illegial in the UK to have the information:
Terrorism act 2000 sec 58
(2)In this section “record” includes a photographic or electronic record.
(3)It is a defence for a person charged with an offence under this section to prove that he had a reasonable excuse for his action or possession.
(4)A person guilty of an offence under this section shall be liable—
(a)on conviction on indictment, to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 10 years, to a fine or to both, or
(b)on summary conviction, to imprisonment for a term not exceeding six months, to a fine not exceeding the statutory maximum or to both.
His defence would have to be a "reasonable excuse" to why he had the info. I'm not sure if "I'm interested in chemistry" or" I'm studying IEDs out of curiosity since your troops are dying from them" would be considered reasonable. Especially when you have a letter (albieit) anonymous saying you want advice on fighting a jihad.
P.S. I also love how a lot of jihadists live in the west, study there and then act all pissed off with the western lifestyle. Funny it was good enough for you to live, you went there for school because yours are crap but "everything the west does is evil".
"This case has never been about proving an endgame and we may never know what his intentions were, but when you have significant evidence of how to make explosive devices and pricing lists for weapons, we had to act quickly." Ok...I am all about stopping terrorism and providing for safety from things the average person isn't prepared to deal with HOWEVER...this is just ridiculous...they even basically say We have no case, don't know what he wanted to do BUT...throw him in prison! Where in the hell have the liberties gone from the once free countries around the world? Oh that's right, they don't exist anymore
Yes, anyone who can intentionally build a chair that is not meant to be stable is a terrorist in my book.
For the same reason that everyone should know what happens when you mix bleach and ammonia: Women in Walmart throw bleach and ammonia at each other. Or that you shouldn't throw certain chemicals in a bowl of water...
Or maybe you have some groundhogs out back you are trying to get rid of? I watched a very interesting piece on the discovery channel where farmers rigged an entire tree line with explosives and blew it up in an effort to kill a flock of birds that were threatening the crops. There are many perfectly valid and legal reasons I would want to blow something up.
So what if his spirtial guidance turned out to be 'don't do it man'! ... you shouldn't punish people for being tempted, because EVERYONE is tempted to do what is wrong from time to time. It is only when they actually DO it that they have DONE something illegal.
Sorry , but the though police should have no place in the modern world, but Europe has never fully had the same ideas as america on that.
Our constitution was designed to allow for citizens to actually talk about plan and attempt to carry out a rebellion if the government every stopped listening too them, by people who had just recently done exactly that.
So, you are not supposed to be able to arrest people for 'treason speech' or 'intent' in this country ( the kings of Europe routinely did such things.) They expected oaths of loyalty and anyone who wouldn't take them could be punished etc. etc.
âoeTolerance applies only to persons, but never to truth. Intolerance applies only to truth, but never to persons.
Read your own post -- the detective said that. Detectives don't sentence people to jail terms, they just arrest people who are suspected to be a danger to society.
The court on the other hand, decided that he was going to use the information to build a bomb and that is why he's in jail.
...were floating around in any Jr. High when I went to school. Most of my colleagues remember it as well. Yet there is no flood of terrierists out there...
It is ironic that you can be required to know the process in high school chemistry class to precipitate something, yet be jailed for knowing the same approach can can be used to concentrate ricin. I suppose now the Wiki pages for aspirin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aspirin) will now make every high school aged chemist a terrierist. The information required is so basic, it merely points out the complete ignorance and gullibility of the prosecution.
Does reading a reading a detailed description of a dirty nuke device make one *more* of a threat to anyone than a bolt of lightning, or eating hot wings for lunch?
There are people you pass in the street every day who know exactly how to reach over and snap your neck, or who have contemplated rape fantasies with your wife, or are evaluating whether to steal your wallet, or a million other horrors that reside in the minds of others.
Those things have been there, every day of your life; the sum total of those risks is far smaller than crossing a street, driving a car, or cutting vegetables in the kitchen for dinner. Yet a person who reads about ricin or bombs is prosecuted by some career flunkies promoted on the basis of their theatrical tendencies for alarm. Apparently, democracy, intellectual freedom, and western civilization are too powerless in the face of these trifled threats to be allowed to exist...so they want to inflict something entirely different in its place.
I don't care if he had written a thousand verses on Jihad or Holy Crusades or a Columbine redux. It is truly the end of the line when there are vague classes of publicly available speech that are now prohibited to view. This is a direct assault by self-righteous, malevolently ignorant squabs on a normal world they cannot seem to come to grips with.
I agree that the UK is not a police state, but there are a number of aspects of laws there (like this, and the ability to ban books) which are pretty troubling. I myself was once stopped and searched on the street in London, basically for having long hair. I politely asked if I could decline to be searched, was informed that if I did I would be arrested, and let them go through my bag. It was pretty funny really, I had a bunch of pens in a ziplock bag; when they saw it their faces lit up like "ah, the drugs!". They were a bit crestfallen after that. In the US that would have been an illegal search. Not that there aren't troubling laws in the US!
That's what the UK police claimed right? Does the guy admit he created that letter? If he doesn't I'd give him the benefit of doubt unless there is any other evidence.
See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Jean_Charles_de_Menezes#Disputed_facts_and_events
I'm personally more concerned about corrupt/bad cops than I am of terrorists. They have a far higher chance of ruining my life.
In the UK merely thinking about terrorism is a crime. Of course they can't read your mind so there has to be some evidence such as writings or internet searches, but showing any semi-serious interest in Islamic terrorism is actually against the law. It is also illegal not to report people you suspect of being terrorists.
People actually go to prison for thought crime here.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
The USB stick also contained:
...anti-interrogation techniques and details on how to kill efficiently.
As well:
Officers also recovered a list that contained prices in both pounds and rupees of a number of items, including an AK47 rifle, rounds of ammunition, a grenade launcher and other survival or combat material.
So the summary is a bit misleading - it wasn't just the bomb making recipes. It was that, and the letter, and information on killing techniques, and anti-interrogation techniques, and price lists for arms, and information about survival stuff.
If we want to debate these things, we at least ought to get the context in there.
Circa pre-9/11, 1999 I think, I found equivalent blue-prints online for the Fat Man bomb. It was a large color scan image, probably 3000x4000 with clear dimensions and references of the interior. Wikipedia says such blueprints are still classified. Those were the net golden years, weren't they?
Those blueprints are classified. What that means under American law is that it's a crime for someone with a security clearance to leak those blueprints. It is not a crime for a third party (e.g., newspaper, website, t-shirt printer, etc.) to publish those blueprints if they come into possession of them or manage to duplicate Fat Man on their own. This is why for all the bluster against him it's quite unlikely that Julian Assange could be convicted of anything (related to Wikileaks anyway) under American law.
See United States v. The Progressive and New York Times Co. v. United States for some of the relevant case law.
I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with arresting people for having detailed bomb plans and no explaination for why.
The US Constitution applies to all US Citizens... no matter where they are at.
Are You Living in a Constitution Free Zone?