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Shmoocon Demo Shows Easy, Wireless Credit Card Fraud

Sparrowvsrevolution writes with this excerpt from a Forbes piece recounting a scary demo at the just-ended Shmoocon: "[Security researcher Kristin] Paget aimed to indisputably prove what hackers have long known and the payment card industry has repeatedly downplayed and denied: That RFID-enabled credit card data can be easily, cheaply, and undetectably stolen and used for fraudulent transactions. With a Vivotech RFID credit card reader she bought on eBay for $50, Paget wirelessly read a volunteer's credit card onstage and obtained the card's number and expiration date, along with the one-time CVV number used by contactless cards to authenticate payments. A second later, she used a $300 card-magnetizing tool to encode that data onto a blank card. And then, with a Square attachment for the iPhone that allows anyone to swipe a card and receive payments, she paid herself $15 of the volunteer's money with the counterfeit card she'd just created. (She also handed the volunteer a twenty dollar bill, essentially selling the bill on stage for $15 to avoid any charges of illegal fraud.) ... A stealthy attacker in a crowded public place could easily scan hundreds of cards through wallets or purses."

59 of 273 comments (clear)

  1. Aluminum Foil in the Wallet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    That is why I have lined my wallet with the aluminum foil that I had left over from making my hat.

    1. Re:Aluminum Foil in the Wallet by cvtan · · Score: 4, Informative

      A Faraday cage need not be grounded. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faraday_cage

      --
      Sorry, but gray text on gray background is making my eyes bleed.
    2. Re:Aluminum Foil in the Wallet by FictionPimp · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I have a RFID blocking wallet. My security badge for work will not scan when inside the wallet (but it will scan inside all my co-workers wallets and my old wallet).

      Same price as a normal wallet and not a bad investment.

    3. Re:Aluminum Foil in the Wallet by _0xd0ad · · Score: 5, Informative

      Grounding a Faraday cage accomplishes two things:

      1) The cage is made from a conductive material. If a hot wire shorts against it, and you touch the cage, you could be electrocuted. Grounding it is therefore prudent.

      2) If anything inside the cage is trying to transmit, it turns the entire planet into its antenna. Your transmission is going to be pretty weak if you're trying to drive a planet-sized antenna with a few milliwatts of power. (Actually, no weaker than normal, but only if you're far enough away from the antenna that it looks like a point-source.)

      Note the significant absence of "prevents radio signals from getting into the Faraday cage". It doesn't. Grounding has nothing to do with preventing radio signals from getting into the Faraday cage. The cage's mesh diameter is the only factor that affects which radio signals can get into the cage.

  2. Re:Is this news? by Jeng · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It is news in that this has now been brought up to the credit card companies in a manner which cannot be easily ignored.

    --
    Don't know something? Look it up. Still don't know? Then ask.
  3. Mitigating factors by Annirak · · Score: 2, Informative

    Put two of these cards next to eachother, and they won't read. Put them in an aluminium card case, and they won't read. Move more than about 5 cm away from the card and it won't read.

    There are numerous ways around this problem. It shouldn't stop people from using the technology.

    1. Re:Mitigating factors by vlm · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Put two of these cards next to eachother, and they won't read. Put them in an aluminium card case, and they won't read. Move more than about 5 cm away from the card and it won't read.

      Stand in line at the convenience store behind victim. Tada, you just got owned.

      There are numerous ways around this problem. It shouldn't stop people from using the technology.

      Its about as secure as tatooing your social security number on your forehead, then telling people its safe because you need a telephoto lens from over 100 feet, or you can just wear a skimask all the time.

      --
      "Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
    2. Re:Mitigating factors by berashith · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The issue isnt being able to mitigate, the issue is that if the CC companies convince everyone that this isnt possible, then they have an easy path to never having to pay out against fraud. They can just refuse to believe this exists, and tell anyone who had their card info stolen that the cause was their behavior, and then never have to honor a dime of repayment. This is enough to let everyone know that theft can occur this way, and liability remains with the CC companies.

    3. Re:Mitigating factors by Big+Smirk · · Score: 2

      The RFID technology used in credit cards is more based on magnetic fields than electric fields. As such, stacking the cards doesn't help. The magnetic ones were somehow assumed to be more secure because they can only be read from a few inches away. Then again, store security systems use magnetic fields as well and they can read at least 4 ft away.

      A Faraday cage is one defense.

      Or, burn out the chip and just use the magnetic stripe (best defense). I have yet to use one of these no-contact credit card readers and have never even found a need for it. Technology that makes me less safe.... correction, makes my credit card company more expensive/less safe.

      --
      TODO: create/find/steal funny sig.
    4. Re:Mitigating factors by Joce640k · · Score: 3, Informative

      People typically carry their wallets in their back pockets and purses, both of which a hacker can get arbitrarily close to. 5cm is way too much.

      Yep, at a Kevin Mitnick conference last year he showed an RFID reader which fit in the palm of your hand (with a wire up the sleeve to the main unit). It worked at more than 5cm, too.

      --
      No sig today...
    5. Re:Mitigating factors by sjames · · Score: 2

      Since the only way to be safe is to have a special shield so you have to take your card out to use it anyway, it might as well ditch the near field and go back to contact only.

      The new technology gains you nothing (it actually cost you the price of the special case) and exposes a lot of people to fraud. (which still costs you since those losses are recouped through fees that show up on the retail price).

    6. Re:Mitigating factors by mcsqueak · · Score: 2

      Exactly, this technology gains you nothing and exposes you to more potential fraud vectors. I don't see the point - I'd rather swipe my own card through a standard pad and type in my PIN. I'm already standing there; I don't need some stupid tap technology to go "DURRR, IT TOOK MUH MONEY AND I DIDN'T EVEN HAFTA ENTER MUH PIN!!".

      The one place I think contactless cards make a difference is in transit systems. While in Japan I used the refillable PASMO card, and it was nice to be able to tap my wallet on the train "turnstiles" to go though, I hardly had to reduce my walking speed. I could also use it on buses, rather than cash. However I have no comment/knowledge on the security of those, or potential vulnerabilities that may exist.

  4. FUD by OverlordQ · · Score: 5, Insightful

    In fact, contactless cards do offer one security feature traditional cards don’t: Along with the card’s 16-digit number and expiration date, the cards are set to offer up a one-time CVV code with every scan. Those codes can only be used for one transaction, and have to used in the order they’re generated. If a payment processor that detects multiple transactions with the same code or codes being used to make transactions in the wrong order, it will disable the card. So a contactless card scammer can only use each stolen number for one transaction, and if the victim of a the scam uses the card again before the thief has time to make a fraudulent payment, all transactions on the card will be blocked.

    You should be more worried about waiters and cashiers then somebody in a crowd grabbing your data.

    --
    Your hair look like poop, Bob! - Wanker.
    1. Re:FUD by OverlordQ · · Score: 2

      Can't remember the last time a cashier looked at my card or asked for the CVV.

      Because that information is on the stripe.

      --
      Your hair look like poop, Bob! - Wanker.
    2. Re:FUD by Dr_Barnowl · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Untrue ; waiters and cashiers will eventually get busted by data mining - you just need to correlate the transactions that pay for food and note the common location, then go through their time cards.

      Whereas with wireless, you could collect the data in a location not covered by security cams, and transmit it, encrypted (how ironic) to avoid detection, to another location where payments are processed. A crowded subway car would be ideal - people are not going to be using their cards, and it's the ultimate in cultured anonymity - everyone goes out of their way not to notice anyone else.

    3. Re:FUD by Dr_Barnowl · · Score: 2

      The CVV1 is on the stripe, the CVV2 code is not on the stripe - it's the second code on the signature strip.

      In many countries in Europe, it's mandatory to provide the CVV2 code for authorization of "cardholder not present" transactions. Online retailers that don't ask for it now make me nervous.

    4. Re:FUD by sjames · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Or they're smart and pass the numbers on to someone else who collects the info from many waiters and runs charges the next day.

  5. The Obvious Solution* by nick357 · · Score: 5, Funny

    Put her in jail for teaching others how to defraud the public!!!!

    * Obvious to the credit card industry

  6. Re:Is this news? by tlhIngan · · Score: 2

    It is news in that this has now been brought up to the credit card companies in a manner which cannot be easily ignored.

    I remember seeing it on the news - they demonstrated someone with a cheap RFID reader and a laptop can bump into people, grab their cards, and run off. It was impressive enough that my parents got worried and checked their cards for that paypass logo.

    Of course, having it more in the news isn't a bad thing. Add in a few elaborations (attackers can read your credit card without having to be close to you!) and you'll find great retraction on this. Especially when considering that it applies to debit cards as well. (Anyone with $50 worth of equipment can drain your bank account!).

    And yes, while it's a bit of hyperbole, it makes a nice soundbite to get people to change.

  7. This is sort of old news. by MrCrassic · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Its been well known that RFID cards are suspectible to this kind of threat. The only reason why jammers and blocks havent been enforced as much is because there haven't been enough cases of this happening to justify wide-scale enforcement. I really like the convenience of contactless payment systems and hope jammers and guards become ubitquitous enough for banks to provide them along with these cards.

  8. Glossing over one problem... by Shoten · · Score: 5, Informative

    Randy Vanderhoof, executive director of the industry group the Smart Card Alliance, points out that despite previous research on the contactless attack, no real-world instances of the fraud have ever been reported. “We’ve got six years of history, a hundred million users of these cards, and we haven’t seen any documented cases of this kind of fraudulent transaction. The reason we think that’s the case is that it’s very difficult to monetize this as a criminal,” says Vanderhoof. “The premise that this is a new threat is absolutely false and isn’t supported by [Paget's] demonstration.”

    In fact, contactless cards do offer one security feature traditional cards don’t: Along with the card’s 16-digit number and expiration date, the cards are set to offer up a one-time CVV code with every scan. Those codes can only be used for one transaction, and have to used in the order they’re generated. If a payment processor that detects multiple transactions with the same code or codes being used to make transactions in the wrong order, it will disable the card. So a contactless card scammer can only use each stolen number for one transaction, and if the victim of a the scam uses the card again before the thief has time to make a fraudulent payment, all transactions on the card will be blocked.

    So unlike the traditional magnetic stripe kind of card...and these get skimmed as well, mind you...with this attack you MUST be the next person to use the card's credentials. If not, the attack fails. It's not quite as bad as they make it out to be here. Furthermore, the cries that people have thrown up that someone could scan an entire room full of people at once are totally off-base. You'd need to create an induction field strong enough to energize the furthest cards...which would kill the nearest ones...and the cards would all jabber at the same time, mixing their signals. The RFID spec for these cards has no provision for collision detection or avoidance.

    --

    For your security, this post has been encrypted with ROT-13, twice.
    1. Re:Glossing over one problem... by barc0001 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      "with this attack you MUST be the next person to use the card's credentials." "the cries that people have thrown up that someone could scan an entire room full of people at once are totally off-base"

      Because it's impossible to build a rig that fits in a briefcase or backpack that scans cards within a meter or two of the holder and automatically runs scripted transactions as soon as a card is detected in range, right?

      Just because it's not AS bad a picture as the doomsayers are painting as a worst-case scenario doesn't mean it isn't ripe for exploitation.

    2. Re:Glossing over one problem... by oneiros27 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      So we'd have to funnel people through a chokepoint to isolate them ... and it might not work if they had more than one RFID enabled card in their wallet? And then you have to use it quickly, like this was done (while still on stage), rather than waiting for the person to try to make a legit transaction.

      I'm guessing that someone standing near the entrance to a subway system could work within those restrictions well enough that even if they got less than 1% success rate per person entering could still turn a nice little "profit" during rush-hour.

      --
      Build it, and they will come^Hplain.
    3. Re:Glossing over one problem... by CimmerianX · · Score: 5, Insightful

      >> the cards are set to offer up a one-time CVV code with every scan

      Wait, I thought RFID only offered up static information. Does this infer that the cards have some sort of logic onboard to generate these 'one-time codes' and have create a new code on every scan that matches up with its processor? How does this effect an inadvertent scan, do the codes get all out of sync? Is there resync logic as well? How would this be handled throught payment processors and 3rd party clearing houses?

      Now, someone enlighten me on this if it's true. But this sounds to me like total bullcrap.

    4. Re:Glossing over one problem... by Yakasha · · Score: 2

      So unlike the traditional magnetic stripe kind of card...and these get skimmed as well, mind you...with this attack you MUST be the next person to use the card's credentials. If not, the attack fails.

      Not hard to have a scanner & processor working at the same time.

      It's not quite as bad as they make it out to be here.

      Perhaps financially for individual consumers, but it can be a huge problem in other ways. Wouldn't it suck if your RFID enabled credit card & passport were read at the same time and you purchased a 1-way ticket for some terrorist (Does Godwin's law include terrorism references yet?).

      Naturally restricting the liability to just a couple (or 1) transaction means individuals will not be out a lot of money. But it can still cause problems for the credit card company if a large number of people are hit. For poor individuals, even $50 1 time just as they get to the supermarket can be devastating.

      Furthermore, the cries that people have thrown up that someone could scan an entire room full of people at once are totally off-base. You'd need to create an induction field strong enough to energize the furthest cards...which would kill the nearest ones...and the cards would all jabber at the same time, mixing their signals.

      No, you just stand at a high traffic point and use a weak field to get the cards right next to you: Union Square, public transit, shopping malls, airport.

    5. Re:Glossing over one problem... by Big+Smirk · · Score: 5, Informative

      Both, wrong... you less so.

      The credit cards use an induction form of RFID. The wavelengths in question are very long - would require a big antenna to transmitt and an equally big antenna on the card to receive.... well the cards aren't big enough. So you see this spiral pattern (inductive loop) that is the antenna.
      YAGI won't do it. You need something more along the lines of the magnetic sensors as you leave a store (EAS - Electronic Article surveillance).

      Credit cards are 13.56 MHz RFID. That's a wavelength of ~75ft. Not going to hide that YAGI very well....

      Nope, inductive loops. That's why it only works over about a meter because the strengths of the magnetic fields.

      --
      TODO: create/find/steal funny sig.
    6. Re:Glossing over one problem... by Myopic · · Score: 2

      +1, Elementary Composition

    7. Re:Glossing over one problem... by Grishnakh · · Score: 2

      So unlike the traditional magnetic stripe kind of card...and these get skimmed as well, mind you...with this attack you MUST be the next person to use the card's credentials. If not, the attack fails. It's not quite as bad as they make it out to be here.

      No, this really is as bad as it's made out to be. From what I've read above, the attacker has to be the next person to use the card's credentials from the RFID part, not just any credentials. So if the cardholder gets his credentials stolen, and then uses the card for a whole month but only using the magstripe (for in-person transactions) or the CVV2 (for online transaction), and never uses the RFID part ("paypass"), then the attacker will still be able to make fraudulent charges.

      I don't know about you, but I've NEVER used Paypass or other RFID charging schemes. My business Amex has this chip, but I've never made use of it; I only use the magstripe and the CVV2 as outlined above. I actually don't even know where to use Paypass, maybe some gas stations. Since almost everyplace that takes credit cards uses magstripe readers, I've never felt the need for this wireless thing. So if someone stole my card's credentials, they could easily run up tens of thousands of dollars worth of charges on my employer's account.

      Luckily, it's only my business Amex that has this stupid "feature" embedded in it. My personal cards don't seem to have any such thing. If my employer gets hit, that's their problem, not mine, and they'll have to talk with Amex about not issuing these stupid cards.

    8. Re:Glossing over one problem... by kevmeister · · Score: 2

      The "Smart" in SmartCard indeed means that they are smart. The ones we use at work are programmable, run a tiny OS, and can be logged into (after a fashion). The CPUs do real crypto using RSA. A SmartCard has flash to store data, so a one-time key (like CVV2) is not hard at all. My SmartCard can generate an SSH key-pair and does not ever release the private key. It does the RSA challenge-response operations allowing secure login to a standard SSH client.

      While I don't know if the CVV stuff is true, it is certainly possible.

      --
      Kevin Oberman, Network Engineer, Retired
  9. Use a Faraday Cage wallet by Woil · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I've been using a Faraday Cage wallet and passport holder by DIFRwear: http://difrwear.com/ for several years now. I don't work for them, but with the very cheap wallet prices and sturdy construction I've been very pleased with the products. I can testify that they do work as I have an RFID key card and it won't activate the door if in the wallet.

  10. And in other news... by Darkness404 · · Score: 2

    And in other news anytime you take your credit card out to do anything and it is out of sight for a moment people could record your number, expiration date and your security code and then use it to buy things using your credit card. But of course we won't worry about that because technology is SCARY!!! Despite the fact that this doesn't work if you:

    Have more than 1 credit/debit card with an RFID chip.

    Aren't really close to the card.

    Store your card in an aluminum wallet.

    Sure, it is possible, but we focus so much on the possible technological side while totally neglecting the fact that people could quite easily just record your credit card info when you pay for things.

    --
    Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
    1. Re:And in other news... by Baloroth · · Score: 2

      However, when people record the info when you pay for something, that person becomes directly traceable. I.e. if the police look into the matter, they can almost certainly quickly find out who is responsible. The RFID method is completely 100% anonymous (unless you memorize the faces of everyone you pass on the street, and even then you simply will not be able to trace down the person responsible). This adds a psychological, if not a real, barrier to CC skimming for employees.

      The RFID system is quick, anonymous, and can collect potentially hundreds of cards in a matter of hours, just by standing at a subway station with the right equipment.

      --
      "None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license." --John Milton
  11. Such 'demos' should be illegal. by JohnMurtari · · Score: 2

    (sarcasm) Well, the obvious solution is to prosecute Randy for violation of some type of copyright/jail-breaking/illegal use law. If we don't have one yet for this -- we can write one quickly! No need to have people worry about this type of stuff. Our economy is in shambles, we need people to use their cards! You can't grow GDP without breaking a few eggs! (/sarcasm)

  12. Square is the big security fail here... by randomlogin · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The fact that you can make a payment via Square without any form of authentication is the biggest failure here. At least with the RFID payment you've got a cryptographically strong authentication method which is pretty hard to fake. The sooner the credit card companies get rid of the magstripe the better...

  13. If the name Paget rings a bell... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    Kristin Paget used to be Chris Paget, famous GSM hacker. With that out of the way, we return you to this awesome hack.

  14. What's the point of these? by twotacocombo · · Score: 4, Interesting

    What exactly is the advantage to these RFID credit cards? All the readers I've seen still require you to get the card close to it to work. Has the world really grown so lazy that we can no longer be bothered to make a vertical swiping motion? I can see the benefit for payment-enabled cell phones or key fobs, but credit cards? Seems like a solution to a problem that didn't exist.

    1. Re:What's the point of these? by MozeeToby · · Score: 2

      Ostensibly, they allow for more brains behind the card than is possible with a magstripe. The current solution is simply a one time use CCV code, if a more recent code has been used it rejects all the codes that came before it, meaning that A) A stolen card can only be used once and B) Not even once if the legitimate user makes a purchase in the meantime. To me, with a bit more processing power, it seems like it should be possible to set up an encryption scheme where the person reading the card only ever sees encrypted data that would go stale in a matter of minutes (and yes, that includes stores). You could probably, of course, still clone the information and process a purchase quickly enough to commit fraud, but doing it on a large scale would be all but impossible.

    2. Re:What's the point of these? by mmontour · · Score: 2

      Ostensibly, they allow for more brains behind the card than is possible with a magstripe.

      You get that benefit from having a microprocessor on the card, such as a standard "chip card" with metal pads (like a SIM card) that you insert into the reader. Adding all of the RFID nonsense on top of that just makes it less secure.

      (I'm aware that "chip+pin" also has known security flaws, but it's better than the alternatives).

    3. Re:What's the point of these? by twotacocombo · · Score: 3, Informative

      One advantage is that magnetic stripes wear out. RFID cards won't. Similarly, swipe readers wear out, get gummed up, etc., whereas RF readers don't.

      If I were responsible for the maintenance of POS terminals for a store, especially one with non-trivial traffic, that might be a different story.

      The magstripe can wear out, but you can still key in the number manually when this happens. RFID chips are not invincible, and can be damaged, but certainly not as easily as a magstripe.

      I did phone tech support for 7 years, working on various makes and models of credit card machines. The number of units that I personally saw during that time that genuinely had the reader head worn down to the point of malfunction was less than 10. I replaced far more units due to beer damage. Most read failures were either due to a badly abused card, or a slightly dirty head. Wrapping a dollar bill around a card and running it through a few times cleared up the read problems almost 100% of the time. And no, it doesn't have to be a $1 bill. If I had one for every time I was asked THAT question...

    4. Re:What's the point of these? by Captain+Hook · · Score: 2

      It all about speed. No PIN numbers and no direct contact in a small fiddly slot means the transaction will be quicker, which makes cards usable in those low value high volume transactions where cash still reigns supreme.

      PayWave and those types of authentication schemes are not about security, they are about finding away to replace the last of the legal anonymous cash transactions.

      And the CC companies are quiet happy to refund any fraudulent transactions in the short term in order to get to that long term goal, as is pretty much every government I would be as well.

      --
      These comments are my personal opinions and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of the other voices in my head.
  15. Re:Is this news? by Joce640k · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Why is it "hyperbole" if somebody can drain hundreds of bank accounts wirelessly with a $50 device?

    To me that sounds more like "panic stations, block all cards now!!"

    Why anybody needs RFID credit cards is beyond me anyway. Is it sooooo hard to swipe a card through a reader?

    PS: Why would the CVV number be on the RFID chip? Surely that's the secret only you and the company are supposed to know?

    --
    No sig today...
  16. Re:Is this news? by FrankSchwab · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The CVV used here, I believe, isn't the one printed on the back of the card. I believe that it's a one-time use CVV that changes for the next transaction (think rolling-code garage door opener or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_time_password)

    So, someone who steals one can do a single transaction.

    --
    And the worms ate into his brain.
  17. false by dutchwhizzman · · Score: 4, Interesting

    You can read RFID cards in peoples wallets at 30 ft with a transponder with higher send signal and a better antenna. The same applied for multiple cards. Some reading devices won't process if there is more than one card in it's reach, but that's a software decision. Devices purpose made to leech RFIDs do not play by the rules and legislation set out for "proper" RFID equipment.

    --
    I was promised a flying car. Where is my flying car?
  18. Re:Is this news? by Rary · · Score: 4, Informative

    They actually have to bump the device up against your wallet.

    Not according to TFA:

    In a demonstration just before her talk, Paget read a card in my wallet through my back pocket without touching me, successfully obtaining the card’s information.

    There are many situations where we get close enough to random strangers for someone to pull this off.

    --

    "You cannot simultaneously prevent and prepare for war." -- Albert Einstein

  19. Mythbusters lost episode by speedlaw · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Wasn't RFID the subject of the Mythbusters episode that was "squelched" by Visa ? Adam made a few comments and the issue was clamped down upon by all. The credit card companies (huge advertisers-when you get 29% interest you have lots of money) made it clear that RFID weaknesses were not a subject to be discussed in public to a lay audience.

  20. Re:Is this news? by jmorris42 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    As a non-idiot I knew this was possible. I fight Chase regularly on this, they send a new card with the stupid chip, I call and roast em, they mail me a new one without the chip. But they tell me at the time that it is a one time only deal and sure enough they send another later in the year on a different card. Yes, because of mergermania I now have three credit cards but they are all Chase. They simply refuse to allow you to permanently opt out of this madness.

    Same with wanting to move me to a debit card instead of an ATM card. The ATM card requires a PIN for all transactions and has other safeguards which work in my favor. The debit cards can be used in all sorts of places without a PIN and since it isn't a credit card (despite the Visa logo) the stolen money is gone from your account and you are getting to pay NSF fees all over the place while you fight over it. So I just keep cutting those cards every time they send a new one out and keep using my ancient ATM card. When it stops working I'm out of there.

    --
    Democrat delenda est
  21. Re:Is this news? by soleblaze · · Score: 2

    You can steal it for one transaction. However, you can read a card multiple times and if they haven't used the paypass since, you can replay those transactions in order and use it multiple times.

  22. Re:Is this news? by Joce640k · · Score: 3, Informative

    I think if I get it within 2 or three millimeters of the reader it will work. But I never do it that way. I just slap my wallet against the reader. Suggesting that a criminal would do it differently is just silly.

    Researchers seem to be able to do it from several feet away...just google for "rfid maximum distance" (or something similar).

    --
    No sig today...
  23. Re:Is this news? by Sczi · · Score: 2

    As a non-idiot I knew this was possible. I fight Chase regularly on this, they send a new card with the stupid chip, I call and roast em, they mail me a new one without the chip. But they tell me at the time that it is a one time only deal and sure enough they send another later in the year on a different card. Yes, because of mergermania I now have three credit cards but they are all Chase. They simply refuse to allow you to permanently opt out of this madness.

    Stop! Hammer time!

  24. Re:Is this news? by hawguy · · Score: 5, Informative

    If you have an unusually thin wallet, that may work. But the attacker isn't going to get closer and closer to you until it works. That would be pretty silly, and rather conspicuous. They are going to bump up against you.

    In a crowded commuter train or bus an attacker can inconspicuously bump his RFID reader containing backpack against 100 people without arising suspicion while pusing his way from one end of the train to the other. On a less crowded train, he can put his reader under the seat in front of him (many transit agencies use thin fiberglass or plastic seats) and get it to within 1/4 inch of the seated passenger's back pocket wallet.

    I have an RFID access key I keep in my wallet. I think if I get it within 2 or three millimeters of the reader it will work. But I never do it that way. I just slap my wallet against the reader. Suggesting that a criminal would do it differently is just silly.

    My RFID card key works 3 or 4 centimeters from the reader. Like you I usually slap it against the reader, but I'm not worried about making the reader suspicious about why I'm touching it. I've seen people who keep the card in their wallet do a butt touch on the reader and the card works fine through their wallet and clothes. If RFID card keys are any indication, then it would be trivial for a thief to get close enough to read the card without actually touching you - after all, pickpockets are already able to slip a wallet from a pocket undetected, so I think they can manage to get a card reader a few cm from your wallet without touching you.

    I'm not sure how Credit Card RFID chips differ from the RFID chips used in passports, but Passport RFID readers with high gain antennas have been used to read a passport RFID chip from hundreds of feet away.

  25. Re:Is this news? by hierophanta · · Score: 2

    i get that close to hundreds of strangers each week on the train to and from work. this is also a situation where people will most likely be able to figure out where my wallet is, because i just pulled it out when i swiped my transit card.

  26. Re:Is this news? by thinuspollard · · Score: 2

    There are multiple CVV numbers assigned to a single card. The first is present on the magstripe. The second one is what we know as the security code and is printed, not embossed, on the signature panel on the back of the card. For chip cards and contactless cards you get other schemes such as this single use CVV numbers produced by the card.

    Also, a card can only be blocked if it is presented to the reader for long enough to download a couple of scripts feom the issuing institution. A paypass card's offline wallet is fair game for anyone who picks up the card.

    obviously it is much more complicated than the space/time available here

  27. Re:MOD PARENT DOWN! by _0xd0ad · · Score: 3, Informative

    A "hot wire?" What is a "hot wire?" Are you talking about AC mains voltage? The same concept would apply to vehicles, building doors, household appliances, etc. This has nothing to do with RF.

    I never said it did, moron. Yes, one of the reasons it is a good idea to ground a Faraday cage is exactly the "same concept" as why it is good to ground household appliances, etc.

    Umm, NO. The idea of a Faraday cage is that you create an RF short as the cage is larger than lambda/2.

    You're confusing signals getting into a Faraday cage with signals getting out of one. If the cage's mesh is larger than lambda/2, the signal will penetrate it. If it's not, the signal will not.

    The earth does NOT become an antenna. You merely increase the VSWR at the transmitter.

    If a charge is placed inside an ungrounded Faraday cage, the internal face of the cage will be charged (in the same manner described for an external charge) to prevent the existence of a field inside the body of the cage. However, this charging of the inner face would re-distribute the charges in the body of the cage. This charges the outer face of the cage with a charge equal in sign and magnitude to the one placed inside the cage. Since the internal charge and the inner face cancel each other out, the spread of charges on the outer face is not affected by the position of the internal charge inside the cage. So for all intents and purposes, the cage will generate the same electric field it would generate if it was simply charged by the charge placed inside.

    I.e. the Faraday cage becomes the antenna. You're welcome.

  28. Re:Is this news? by Culture20 · · Score: 4, Informative

    I have an RFID access key I keep in my wallet. I think if I get it within 2 or three millimeters of the reader it will work.

    Mine works from 3 inches away. At a regional office, there's a reader that is twice as large on the wall, and just walking near it with my wallet in my pocket opens the door. It's not the card that determines distance; it's the reader. So maybe the crooks don't buy the $50 reader, maybe they go for the $2000 reader that works from two feet away, and set up shop in a van parked next to a busy sidewalk.

  29. Re:MOD PARENT DOWN! by _0xd0ad · · Score: 3, Interesting

    An anisotropic radiator? THE FUCK does directionality have to do with anything?

    An "electrostatic charge" is just an electric charge that isn't moving, by the way. Move an electric charge with an AC current and you get... wait for it... EM radiation.

    An antenna radiates EM energy by moving charges around. The radiated energy from an antenna, in turn, induces movement of electrons in other conductors. The Faraday cage is a conductor, so the radiated energy causes electrons to move in it. That movement of electrons also radiates energy, as if the Faraday cage were itself an antenna. Hence the Faraday cage might as well be pinned directly (electrically shorted) to the antenna of the transmitter inside it.

    I think you're using big words about concepts you don't really understand.

  30. Re:Is this news? by Marxist+Hacker+42 · · Score: 2

    I once worked for Tektronix, back in the 1990s when they were pioneering this technology. As a demonstration, one door on main headquarters had a reader that could read from 12 feet away- the light would go green as you approached that door.

    I have *NO* doubt that with a suitable antenna, line of sight, and enough power, you could read an RFID chip from a mile or two away.

    --
    SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
  31. Re:Is this news? by arglebargle_xiv · · Score: 3, Insightful

    It's hyperbole because the attacker has to be incredibly close to you. They actually have to bump the device up against your wallet. While it's technically "wireless" that's not what most people have in mind when they hear the word.

    I was at Kristin's talk. The range with a standard cheap-ass reader is a few cm. With your own higher-power add-on (13.56MHz is right next to the 14MHz amateur band for which you can get off-the-shelf gear), it's tens of feet.

    Also the CVV number it gives you works for one use only.

    So you perform multiple reads and get one CVV per read.

  32. Re:Is this news? by Khyber · · Score: 2

    "That would be pretty silly, and rather conspicuous. They are going to bump up against you."

    Never used public transportation, I see.

    --
    Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
  33. Re:Is this news? by Bob+the+Super+Hamste · · Score: 2

    Yet my RFID enabled work badge seems to work within a 2-3 inches (5-8 cm for the rest of you) of the reader, now in a crowded elevator that would easily within range.

    --
    Time to offend someone