Slashdot Mirror


Angry Birds Boss Credits Piracy For Popularity Boost

An anonymous reader writes "Mikael Hed is the CEO of Rovio Mobile, the company behind popular mobile puzzle game Angry Birds. At the Midem conference Monday, Hed had some interesting things to say about how piracy has affected the gaming industry, and Rovio's games in particular: '"We could learn a lot from the music industry, and the rather terrible ways the music industry has tried to combat piracy." Hed explained that Rovio sees it as "futile" to pursue pirates through the courts, except in cases where it feels the products they are selling are harmful to the Angry Birds brand, or ripping off its fans. When that's not the case, Rovio sees it as a way to attract more fans, even if it is not making money from the products. "Piracy may not be a bad thing: it can get us more business at the end of the day." ... "We took something from the music industry, which was to stop treating the customers as users, and start treating them as fans. We do that today: we talk about how many fans we have," he said. "If we lose that fanbase, our business is done, but if we can grow that fanbase, our business will grow."'"

321 comments

  1. Tomorrow's Headline by TemperedAlchemist · · Score: 5, Funny

    Rovio Mobile indicted for taking part in the Mega Upload conspiracy.

    1. Re:Tomorrow's Headline by davester666 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Once his company goes public, and the stock price takes a tiny little dip, suddenly at the next investors meeting it becomes "Piracy is the devil's works!"

      --
      Sleep your way to a whiter smile...date a dentist!
    2. Re:Tomorrow's Headline by rylin · · Score: 3, Informative

      Except they already declined a buyout for billions.
      They're not hurting.

    3. Re:Tomorrow's Headline by crutchy · · Score: 2

      you only go public when your desperate for cash anyway

    4. Re:Tomorrow's Headline by Jafafa+Hots · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Desperate for cash seems to be the standard business model these days though.

      They can have billions, but they're still desperate for more.

      --
      This space available.
    5. Re:Tomorrow's Headline by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      you only go public when your desperate for cash anyway

      When your desparate for cash anyway what?

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    6. Re:Tomorrow's Headline by g253 · · Score: 2

      When you're desperate for cash anyway, Sir!

    7. Re:Tomorrow's Headline by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why did you capitalize sir?

    8. Re:Tomorrow's Headline by trdrstv · · Score: 1

      Except they already declined a buyout for billions. They're not hurting.

      Why have Billions when you could have... Millions ... *Raises Pinky finger*

    9. Re:Tomorrow's Headline by Devoidoid · · Score: 1

      EMphasis!

    10. Re:Tomorrow's Headline by wiedzmin · · Score: 1

      Considering that they stole the whole concept from Crush the Castle (which in turn took it, with credit, from Castle Clout), I wouldn't be surprised.

      --
      Bow before me, for I am root.
  2. That's unpossible! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Look! It's a businessman that understands "Don't shit where you eat."

    1. Re:That's unpossible! by Moheeheeko · · Score: 3, Funny

      And of course, with our luck it happens to be the one who produces shit as a product.

    2. Re:That's unpossible! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Zing

    3. Re:That's unpossible! by crutchy · · Score: 0

      can I get angry birds for linux?

      wy wife bought my the windows version of angry birds, but my computer runs linux. wtf!?

      i guess that's why women are from venus and men are from mars, though there are some people that come from uranus

    4. Re:That's unpossible! by rb12345 · · Score: 3, Informative

      can I get angry birds for linux?

      http://chrome.angrybirds.com/ seems to work fine.

    5. Re:That's unpossible! by Pikoro · · Score: 4, Funny

      http://chrome.angrybirds.com/

      Your welcome. Your wife has already thanked me :)

      --
      "Freedom in the USA is not the ability to do what you want. It is the ability to stop others from doing what THEY want"
    6. Re:That's unpossible! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Do anyone actually pay for angry birds?

      It was free on my smartphone . . .

    7. Re:That's unpossible! by tehcyder · · Score: 5, Insightful

      And of course, with our luck it happens to be the one who produces shit as a product.

      What precisely is wrong with Angry Birds as a game? (Other than the fact that it is popular and therefore non-1337, and is played by people who aren't "gamers" on machines that don't require $1000 graphics cards).

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    8. Re:That's unpossible! by psiclops · · Score: 1

      nothing, it's just no better than the 3 million free flash games i'd play when i'm bored. and less fun (in my opinion), than a few lesser known free mobile games

      it's definitely not something i would pay for therefore his stance on piracy (while great and a good step forward) does not mean much to me.

      that being said, thanks to the chrome links posted above i am now playing it instead of finishing off work that i should have done months ago.

      --
      i spent five minutes thinking and all i got was this crappy sig
    9. Re:That's unpossible! by TheRaven64 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The fact that it's basically identical to 100 other throw-a-thing-to-knock-over-other-things games? The first 10 or so I played were all fun, but after a while they got a bit repetitive. Then Angry Birds was released and everyone talks about it as if it's the best game ever and totally new and original. It's a competent implementation of an old idea - not the best I've played, but not the worst either - but the public reaction to it is completely over the top. Angry Birds fans are like people encountering Doom 3 as the first FPS that they've ever seen and saying how amazing it is.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    10. Re:That's unpossible! by psiclops · · Score: 3, Funny

      welcome???
      geee thanks, what i really needed was another distraction to prevent me from doing the work i was supposed to already have finished.

      i'm blaming you in advance for this not being finished on time. (i wish i could backdate this blame, it was seriously due november last year, then skyrim happened)

      --
      i spent five minutes thinking and all i got was this crappy sig
    11. Re:That's unpossible! by jones_supa · · Score: 1

      wy wife bought my the windows version of angry birds, but my computer runs linux. wtf!?

      It should work with Wine too.

    12. Re:That's unpossible! by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      Just like Linux was identical to a score of previously released "do stuff" operating systems?

      I'm not even sure what the point of this is supposed to be.

      If it's so mediocre in your overwhelmingly arrogant and conceited viewpoint then why don't you do something better? Or even as good? Or even half as good?

      Why would I? Go to any flash games site on the Internet and you'll easily find a dozen better implementations of the same concept. Most of them were around for longer than Angry Birds. There is no point creating something better than Angry Birds when there are dozens of (free!) games that are better already.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    13. Re:That's unpossible! by JasterBobaMereel · · Score: 1

      Nothing, it is worth every penny most people paid for it.... it is a free game

      You can buy it to get rid of the Ads, but I got bored with it before the ads became annoying, like most of these games

      But it has a limited life, like most games, and no amount of new editions will make it last for ever

      The reason copies are easy is because it is a relatively simple game to copy, and very invasive so a version that works as well and does not as for all possible information is a draw ...

      --
      Puteulanus fenestra mortis
    14. Re:That's unpossible! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The point isn't that hard to understand.

      There were similar operating systems around before Linux. It succeeded, presumably because it was lucky or it was better.

      There were similar games around before Angry Birds. It succeeded, presumably because it was lucky or it was better.

      What makes something better? If something is really, really popular, what the hell gives you any right to demean it? Why do you even care? What is your problem with it? Angry Birds has been assessed by people who actually know what the hell they're talking about, as opposed to you, as being an amazing combination of just the right components.

      Sounds to me like you're just being a supercilious "oh look, something popular..I simply must trash it to bolster my fragile superiority-complex-driven ego" jerk.

    15. Re:That's unpossible! by crutchy · · Score: 1

      smartphone.... pfft.

      try angry birds on a 46" LED with surround sound and a thundering sub

    16. Re:That's unpossible! by crutchy · · Score: 1

      nah tried that one, although not with winetricks

      i'll prolly just put it on my wife's (windows) pyewta and she'll play it... i reckon that was her intent in the first place.

    17. Re:That's unpossible! by MobileTatsu-NJG · · Score: 1

      Then Angry Birds was released and everyone talks about it as if it's ... totally new and original.

      I have never heard one person ever say that. Are you sure it's not just the typical geek hipsterism? "Angry Birds is so mainstream..."

      --

      "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

    18. Re:That's unpossible! by chrismcb · · Score: 1

      The fact that it's basically identical to 100 other throw-a-thing-to-knock-over-other-things games? ... Then Angry Birds was released and everyone talks about it as if it's the best game ever and totally new and original.

      So its shit because it isn't original, but people like it? The fact that people like it doesn't make it shit. The fact that it copies other games doesn't make it shit. The fact you don't like it doesn't make it shit.

    19. Re:That's unpossible! by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      I didn't say it was shit, I said that it's far from the best example of the genre. Most of the people I've spoken to who like it have never played another game in the same category. When they do, they usually agree that Angry Birds is not the best (some don't, and that's fine - games are pretty subjective things, after all). The advantage Angry Birds had was being first to market on the iPhone - hitting a market of people who didn't usually play Flash games (and who couldn't due to limitations of their platform).

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
  3. Piracy: Free Advertising by kainosnous · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Piracy is one of the greatest forms of advertising. In some businesses, it's called "word of mouth". Growing up, many of the products I was introduced to, and subsequently became loyal customers of, was thanks to "piracy" of one sort or another. Back then, nobody saw it as a bad thing. The rule of thumb was copy all that you want as long as you don't try to make a profit from it or pass it off as your own.

    When I was younger and still listened to mainstream music, my favorite band was Metallica. I heard them on the radio a few times, but I didn't know who they were. That is, until one of my friends loaned me a cassette tape. Then, a series of them. I was hooked. I bought every CD I could find (even though I already had the tapes), and I tuned into every radio station that played them. From what I understand, they owe a lot of their success to piracy. It's a shame that they attacked Napster. By the way, has anybody heard anything from them lately? I wonder how their anti-piracy campaign is working?

    It wasn't just music. Everything from software and video games to free food came along my way, and I often rewarded the company with my business. I was always more loyal to companies that treated me like I was a prize to be one, and not a resource to be manipulated. I hope that the media companies realize this before we lose too many of our rights. As for me, I've already given up on them.

    --
    There are 10 commandments: 01)Thou shalt love the Lord Thy God 10)Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.Matt22:34-40
    1. Re:Piracy: Free Advertising by adolf · · Score: 1, Flamebait

      Piracy is one of the greatest forms of advertising. In some businesses, it's called "word of mouth". Growing up, many of the products I was introduced to, and subsequently became loyal customers of, was thanks to "piracy" of one sort or another. Back then, nobody saw it as a bad thing. The rule of thumb was copy all that you want as long as you don't try to make a profit from it or pass it off as your own.

      Indeed. Way, way back when, I had a pirated copy of Aldus Photostyler. I liked it a lot, and when Adobe bought Aldus and folded (some of) the features of Photostyler into Photoshop, I pirated that instead.

      Today, I still pirate Photoshop.

      This, clearly, is good for Adobe. (Unless, more likely, it's not...)

    2. Re:Piracy: Free Advertising by outsider007 · · Score: 2

      Did you know that Napster was a for-profit company at that time? How does that work with your rule of thumb?

      --
      If you mod me down the terrorists will have won
    3. Re:Piracy: Free Advertising by Wattos · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It is.

      Once you enter the professional world (e.g. get a job in that business) you become part of the decision process on which software the company should purchase. Since you will have already gathered experience in photoshop, the company might be more inclined to go with that instead of GIMP.

      Simalarly, it is easier to find people with the relevant skills. E.g. if it becomes hard to find people with photoshop skills, the business which change their applications, so that it is easier to find people with the correct skillset.

      So you see, it does benefit them in one way or another.

    4. Re:Piracy: Free Advertising by Stormwatch · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Home users are not Adobe's clientele: who would ever pay $2600 for a software suite? Well, if you work with graphics, you probably will. Mainly because their stuff is pretty good, but also because you're used to it. That piracy was ultimately good for them.

    5. Re:Piracy: Free Advertising by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Microsoft (the company and...) Office grew because of piracy, and they definitely know it and tacitly acknowledged it at the time, as their goal was to get their software on computers, legit or not, and figure out how to legitimize people over time. Waaay back when (Windows 3.1 days...), it was physically (because "Office" at that time was simply a box that had the individual Word, Excel and PowerPoint SKUs in it, and each was installed separately) as well as licensely (as compared to legally. The license said it was ok to...) possible to install one Office component on one machine, another component on another, etc., and you just had to make sure the total number product/component installs matched your licenses. 10 Office licenses + 5 extra Excel licenses, for example, could potentially cover 35 separate product installs on 35 separate machines (I did this for my job). And the license allowed places like universities, etc. to install Office on their employees' home computers, which was a separate deal from the Academic licensed units for sale at the book store or IT shop.

      There was no place on the "registration" card, unless they had some secret invisible ink ID number on the registration card, to enter the license number from the box or license card! So, how exactly was one supposed to "register" their purchased products?

      Once their distribution of new versions started to flatten out did more restrictive license terms come about: can only install Office as a unit per PC, etc. (at least at that time, CD-ROMs were far more prevalent. Yeah, it was fun swapping 90 or so floppy disks to install Office 4.x. On each PC. Compared to Macs... load CD on one mac, and just install off that computer on all the other macs...). And then, later, the on-line validation of Microsoft software we now just quietly accept came along. I suppose in this case it was all about revenue protection for Microsoft, but they sure relied on piracy to grow to where they more or less are now.

    6. Re:Piracy: Free Advertising by wvmarle · · Score: 2

      Piracy? Of the game? It's a free download from the market.

      Metallica: afaik they're still alive and well, but artistically well over their prime. Mostly playing old works for old fans. That doesn't mean their music is bad or anything, they're still very good musicians, just that they don't have much new original material coming out. That's why you don't hear from them much. And they'll take the tours easier as well. Upcoming summer they're touring in Europe for example.

      Back to the birds: interestingly the article did not mention their co-operation with a movie company, promoting some movie with Angry Birds Rio. Playing it a lot myself but actually don't know what movie it is, so promotion works great :-) Oh well. And of course merchandising is available left right and centre. Everywhere you see shops or hawkers selling Angry Birds themed products, including real-life games (where you can catapult a plastic bird against a castle made of plastic blocks, something like that). No way to tell for sure but I guess most of those goods are in fact pirated too.

      I really wonder how long this fad will last.

    7. Re:Piracy: Free Advertising by Tastecicles · · Score: 4, Interesting

      They didn't just attack Napster, they called everybody who listened to music, thieves. That was the drummer Ulrich who said that.

      At which point I made a public event of incinerating hundreds of Pounds worth of Metallica merchandise just to make a statement:

      YOU DO NOT SHIT WHERE YOU EAT.

      --
      Operation Guillotine is in effect.
    8. Re:Piracy: Free Advertising by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      True, but imagine if you were trying to get into the graphics industry in the first place. Your only options would be to cough up $2600 for the software or spend practically every day sitting in a college computer lab because you can't practice at home (and thats assuming its available AND you manage to get a hold of student log-in credentials), let alone convince employers to hire you with zero Adobe experience.

    9. Re:Piracy: Free Advertising by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      "Piracy? Of the game? It's a free download from the market."

      Yes, they decided to bypass piracy altogether, do it themselves and provide the game free of charge altogether. It worked well on a monumental level.

    10. Re:Piracy: Free Advertising by benengel · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I have been a web and graphic designer for over 10 years and have pirated countless copies of photoshop, dreamweaver, flash etc over the years for personal use beginning in the days when i was at uni. Since I started working in the industry every position I have ever worked has always had fully licenced software and I have been involved in several purchasing decisions where I strongly advocated buying new licences for the business for new staff etc. If I had never pirated photoshop in my earlier poor uni days I would never have had the skills to get a job as a web designer. Since then both I and Adobe have benefited from that initial piracy monetarily and continue to benefit.

      If effective restrictive DRM has been in place or criminal penalties highly draconian when I was considering whether to pirate photoshop I would instead have trained myself on Corel (an inferior but similar product) and would be working at places where they had corel licences not photoshop. I would be trained in a crappier product and Adobe would have much less money as a result.

    11. Re:Piracy: Free Advertising by adolf · · Score: 1

      Who said I was a home user?

    12. Re:Piracy: Free Advertising by dejanc · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Today, I still pirate Photoshop.

      This, clearly, is good for Adobe. (Unless, more likely, it's not...)

      I live in freelance web development world where many people across the globe are included in making a website. The designer designs the site using Photoshop. This is later sent to HTML/CSS cutter who provides bare templates, which are worked into a CMS by programmers.

      Often enough, the designer has a licensed copy of Photoshop. HTML/CSS cutter and most other people in the assembly line don't and they use pirated software if they need it.

      If it were not possible to pirate Photoshop, project managers would demand all designs in a format which can be opened (without any issues) using free software. This way though, we are all locked into PSD's because we are used to it, so it easily maintains it's industry standard position.

      For what's it worth, I've seen excellent designs using Inkscape and GIMP. As much as I would love to be able to move everybody in the process to open source software, it's not going to happen as long as Photoshop is "freely available".

    13. Re:Piracy: Free Advertising by Splab · · Score: 1

      What a load of BS.

      If Gimp was a viable alternative to Photoshop for professional users they would be using it. I use Gimp for my small modificationos of private pictures, but I sure as hell miss the more advanced plugins from Photoshop.

    14. Re:Piracy: Free Advertising by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      -I- have paid said 2600$ for a software suite you jackass. I have never had a pirated copy of Photoshop. Pretty much everyone needs a LEGAL copy of photoshop to do work in photoshop, otherwise you risk outing yourself as a pirate. If you make money from using photoshop, buy the damned thing.

      Unless your family is in the art business, you probably can not justify Photoshop when the free software that comes with the digital camera (which happens to be a much inferior program, god Paint shop Pro used to be a nice cheap "photoshop lite" if all you had to do was red-eye reduction and maybe some color correction)

      Hell, the schools where I grew up only used copies in their computers because they didn't want students damaging the original floppies. I remember one day "helping" reinstall a computer lab. It consisted of doing this
      1. Insert original disk 1 into the first machine, run install, enter bogus licence information, wait for prompt for disk 2
      2. Insert disk 2 into the first machine, hit ok, then slide over to the second machine and repeat step 1
      3. Insert disk 3 into the first machine when prompted to, disk 2 into the second machine, and disk 1 into the third machine,
      etc
      One computer lab winds up taking only twice as long instead of 30 times as long. Plus it was fun (humor me.)
      When things arrived on CD, this was no longer possible, you now had to make CD-R copies of the discs. Fortunately the school district wised up and realized that a 20$ investment in each machine (network card) makes it easier to just run the entire application from the same place and just clone the operating system install instead of reinstalling the same product over and over.

      But my point is that piracy has often been a means to an ends, not just an excuse to get stuff for free. The library for example, can't (for legal reasons) make copies of the CD's and lend them out. So we just crossed our fingers and hope that nobody does something stupid (like sticking the the disc in the 5.25" drive D: , another thing I fixed for a teacher so she wouldn't be embarrassed calling the actual technicians. Not surpisingly, that wasn't the only time that happened. Somewhere in my snarky -joke- CV is "trained teaching staff on the difference between a round CD and a square floppy disk")

    15. Re:Piracy: Free Advertising by dejanc · · Score: 1

      What a load of BS.

      If Gimp was a viable alternative to Photoshop for professional users they would be using it. I use Gimp for my small modificationos of private pictures, but I sure as hell miss the more advanced plugins from Photoshop.

      I think you misread my comment... Did I say GIMP is a viable alternative to Photoshop for professional users? No, I said having at least one user who really depends on Photoshop will lock everybody into using PSDs. Some people along the line pirate their copies, but some will buy them.

      I'm not a designer, so I don't know how good GIMP or Inkscape are. But if 3 people suddenly had to buy their Adobe licenses to accommodate one person, we would probably start looking for alternatives.

    16. Re:Piracy: Free Advertising by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Of course the more advanced plugins for Photoshop are made for Photoshop because everyone uses Photoshop. If everyone used Gimp, then every plugin maker would make plugins for Gimp instead.

    17. Re:Piracy: Free Advertising by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Home users are not Adobe's clientele: who would ever pay $2600 for a software suite? Well, if you work with graphics, you probably will. Mainly because their stuff is pretty good, but also because you're used to it. That piracy was ultimately good for them.

      It has always puzzled me as to why Adobe never offered a home use license for Photoshop/illustrator etc.

      I learned Photoshop/illustrator at Uni and have used it at my current and previous employer. It was me who suggested the current employer buy CS suite.

      If I want to do personal stuff, for fun, friends or just to try something new at my leisure the only way is to pirate a copy or use things like the GIMP (it's ok but it isn't Photoshop or illustrator). I would much rather pay adobe a small sum for a home use license than pirate it, but that isn't an option as the commercial license is out of my reach financially. Nor can I justify the cost for something that I might only use a handful of times a year...

    18. Re:Piracy: Free Advertising by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There are also licences for students. Photoshop CS5 for Students and Teachers costs about $230.

    19. Re:Piracy: Free Advertising by crutchy · · Score: 1

      i would be interested to know what photoshop can do that gimp can't

      can you offer any examples?

      you are obviously versed in both or you would be full of shit

    20. Re:Piracy: Free Advertising by engun · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It is.

      Once you enter the professional world (e.g. get a job in that business) you become part of the decision process on which software the company should purchase. Since you will have already gathered experience in photoshop, the company might be more inclined to go with that instead of GIMP.

      This argument might apply to software used in the industry like photoshop, but how will it apply to something like games, intended for personal use?

      That's why I think the "piracy is good" argument makes no sense. Piracy is the act of using something without giving money for it. Let's not try to kid ourselves into thinking it's a virtue.

      Personally, I think that the way to stop piracy is for industries to stop being greedy. It's just not reasonable to expect the massive prices that are demanded for every song, movie, game etc. etc. on the market. People consume a lot of media. The daily bombardments of advertising is to ensure that this happens. For people to be "in" on the scene, they need to consume this stuff. But who has the money to pay $80 per game? or $20 per "3D" movie ticket? Companies need to sell items cheap and make money on volume. And they can!

      High prices or high volume, pick 1. If you charge a high price, expect to cater to a niche market and for the masses to pirate. If you want high volume, charge a low price.

      Instead, these guys want to charge a high price and have volume to boot. Greedy bastards.

    21. Re:Piracy: Free Advertising by klmth · · Score: 1

      No adjustment layers (as of last year). No soft proofing for print - two very big dealbreakers right there.

    22. Re:Piracy: Free Advertising by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      CMYK. You know, the color format that is absolutely required for print (no, not your home laser printer, think advertising business here).

      Print, as in dead trees, as in very important for people who haven't yet heard of the web.

    23. Re:Piracy: Free Advertising by crutchy · · Score: 1

      http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/forums/thread1259.htm
      http://graphicssoft.about.com/od/gimptutorials/tp/fake-adjustment-layers.htm

      etc...

      while probably not the be all and end all, there is a lot of stuff in a simple google search for "gimp adjustment layers"

      what you're likely to find (when comparing any software) is that terminology may be different, and in FOSS sometimes ease-of-use for newbies isn't a criteria for developers (though an expert with gimp is likely more efficient than an expert with photoshop)

      there is usually ways to achieve what you want with gimp though, you just have to be a bit smarter than most photoshop users

      there are also a lot of gimp plugins that can help

    24. Re:Piracy: Free Advertising by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Regarding Metallica:

      They actually did learn from their experience. Death Magnetic was leaked on youtube days before the album came out. Metallica was so blown away by the positive reaction that they didnt DMCA any of the songs(the studio lawyers did for the first few uploads, but Metallica put a stop to it and let the leak continue). Death Magnetic went on to sell very well, and Metallica acknowledged the leak was a good thing and that they look at things differently now.

    25. Re:Piracy: Free Advertising by houghi · · Score: 1

      it's called "word of mouth"

      Now it is called Viral Marketing. They are very aware of it. Otherwise the videos would not be placed on YouTube by themselves.

      --
      Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
    26. Re:Piracy: Free Advertising by ciderbrew · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Same with 3D products. They can't count any kid using a pirate copy as a lost sale. The sale is impossible. They should mark it as training to potential sale. Have people sign up to download the crippled training copy They should be giving the software away with decent documentation and training. I know you can get student copies; but the price can still be a months worth of food. I see Lighwave3D 10 costs £150 for the student copy. I'd buy and have it sat on the shelf never used at that price. No spare hobby time these days!

    27. Re:Piracy: Free Advertising by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      ...or perhaps Corel would have been able to invest more in development and the product would have grown better? Isn't that what is supposed to happen in capitalism?

    28. Re:Piracy: Free Advertising by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "By the way, has anybody heard anything from them lately? I wonder how their anti-piracy campaign is working?"

      I hear they released a CD or two eventually. St Anger and ... some other thing I didn't care to buy or listen to.

      I bought St Anger to see how they fared mostly, and to see what kind of stuff they'd put out after all that "stop pirating or we'll never sing again!" fan boycotting they did.

      My impressions of St Anger was that they seemed to be blaming everybody except themselves for their actions. And they still apparently believed the CD itself was worthless the way they treated it as an addon disc (black and white label, stuck in the side sleeve) where the included bonus DVD (Full color label sitting in the main slot you'd expect to find the CD ... you know, the thing you were actually trying to buy.)

      And after listening to the music on that CD, I felt that the years of not working really left a mark. The entire thing sounded like they beat it out over a weekend in the garage. Which made the DVD all the more appropriate - it was just them playing the songs in their garage.

      Mind you, a couple of the songs had a good beat to it. But it just SO wasn't worth the price tag. It'd feel like buying a single song mp3 for 10 bucks. Not worth it.

      I haven't bothered with them since. I still have some of the older CDs that I listen to once in a blue moon, but I'll be damned if I'll raise my RIAA boycott for the likes of them. You'll have to ask others for their opinion on the other CD they released. Hopefully they got better again, but it's too late to save them this fan.

    29. Re:Piracy: Free Advertising by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Be a well designed reasonably easy to use product that is stable.

    30. Re:Piracy: Free Advertising by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Really?
      If I was responsible for making/influencing software purchases at a company, I'd be saying "Adobe overlooks the piracy of their products, and my workers already know how to use it...let's just pirate Photoshop. If you were entitled to it for free as an amateur and got financial gain out of it (by using it to get employed), why should we pay for it as professionals?"

    31. Re:Piracy: Free Advertising by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

      This is not an argument for piracy. It is an argument for giving away "student licence" editions for free.

      As for piracy, I hope the police crack down on it heavily. It'd boost the use of free software, which has sufficiently good alternatives to most proprietary stuff these days.

      Sore, proprietary has more polish, but polish alone is not worth the price. Not when base functionality is there for free. And in some cases, such as word processing, the free alternatives are better anyway.

    32. Re:Piracy: Free Advertising by silentcoder · · Score: 5, Interesting

      >If Gimp was a viable alternative to Photoshop for professional users they would be using it. I use Gimp for my small modificationos of private pictures, but I sure as hell miss the more advanced plugins from Photoshop.

      Did you try installing the advanced plugins for GIMP ? This argument is 5 years out of date and I'm getting sick of it.
      PS. I'm a professional art photographer (as in published in international magazines including Marie Claire) who uses exclusively free software on Linux. And I have never had an editing task or post-processing idea that UFRaw+Gimp couldn't handle with incredible ease and exceptional power. Photoshop hasn't been better than gimp in many, many years - it has ONE advantage only: familiarity. People like you know where the plugins ARE - and you expect it all to come shipped with the main program. Gimp ships the core functionality with the main program - the advanced plugins are shipped separately - so users doing website logos don't need to muddle through menus of plugins only useful to photographers (and vice versa).
      Name ANY photoshop plugin and then type it's name +gimp alternative into google and I guarantee you'll find it.

      In fact, I actually tried photoshop the other day since I was not at home and wanted to do a quick edit on a friend's pc which had windows and photoshop but no gimp. After half an hour of fruitlessly searching for the feature I wanted in the unfamiliar menu structure I gave up and downloaded gimp for windows and the plugin I needed.

      You learned photoshop, you haven't learned gimp. And if like me, you had done the opposite, you would be saying the opposite. The difference is just that there are a lot more people like you . There is no real difference in quality between the programs - but if I had to wager one and with my clearly stated bias I would say gimp is the higher quality one.

      --
      Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
    33. Re:Piracy: Free Advertising by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      I was always more loyal to companies that treated me like I was a prize to be one, and not a resource to be manipulated.

      No offence, but that makes you a gullible twat then. A company that gives you a free chocolate bar is not your bezzy mate, it is a company that has worked out that a small expense now reaps greater benefits later.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    34. Re:Piracy: Free Advertising by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      It is.

      Once you enter the professional world (e.g. get a job in that business) you become part of the decision process on which software the company should purchase. Since you will have already gathered experience in photoshop, the company might be more inclined to go with that instead of GIMP.

      Simalarly, it is easier to find people with the relevant skills. E.g. if it becomes hard to find people with photoshop skills, the business which change their applications, so that it is easier to find people with the correct skillset.

      So you see, it does benefit them in one way or another.

      Yes, if you work in a professional business and end up being responsible for the decision to purchase Photoshop. If you just use it to edit your home holiday snaps, Adobe get zero benefit from your piracy.

      This doesn't even take into account the fact that Adobe may have actually lost some potential revenue, since I know this is impossible to quantify and is therefore not counted as a plausible argument on slashdot.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    35. Re:Piracy: Free Advertising by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      If I had never pirated photoshop in my earlier poor uni days I would never have had the skills to get a job as a web designer.

      Well you're a pretty fucking shitty web designer then. Photoshop is a tool. You should be able to use Corel, Paint.net, GIMP or whatever to achieve broadly the same results while you are learning. You don't need a Ferrari to learn to drive.

      You remind me of the people who claim they have to pirate Microsoft Office in order to learn how to use a word processor or spreadsheet. Just fuck off and use Libre Office, the differences for a non-professional user are trivial.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    36. Re:Piracy: Free Advertising by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      Home users are not Adobe's clientele: who would ever pay $2600 for a software suite? Well, if you work with graphics, you probably will. Mainly because their stuff is pretty good, but also because you're used to it. That piracy was ultimately good for them.

      If the graphics industry demands that you have Adobe-specific skills, then you can either choose not to go into the graphics industry or else work out a way to get the training, such as, I don't know, paying for a fucking graphic design course.

      If you want to become a qualified doctor or engineer, you have to follow a professional training route and pay for it.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    37. Re:Piracy: Free Advertising by psiclops · · Score: 3, Insightful

      because no sane IT department allows anyone in the company to use software without a license (unless of course it doesn't need one)

      --
      i spent five minutes thinking and all i got was this crappy sig
    38. Re:Piracy: Free Advertising by psiclops · · Score: 1

      no, it's a company doing business in a manner i do not despise and would happily continue to have a relationship with.

      --
      i spent five minutes thinking and all i got was this crappy sig
    39. Re:Piracy: Free Advertising by jones_supa · · Score: 2

      How about Photoshop Elements? It should hit the right spot in this scenario.

    40. Re:Piracy: Free Advertising by SpzToid · · Score: 2

      I've been in your shoes, and lived your argument and don't really disagree with you at all. That said, I made a conscious security decision not to install insecure crap I couldn't otherwise afford; and instead I used Ubuntu and its ecosystem. This has been a terrific investment of mine.

      OK, I'm not a webdesigner, but close enough. I used to do technical illustration, and I've tried to make a business long ago with Photoshop lithography, which turned out to be a terrible business model that only served Adobe's purposes. But now I develop CMS's using Drupal and LAMP, and I've saved projects by being able to deliver solutions overnight using available open-source tools, as opposed to being faced with budget approval and an acquisition period of $1000+ of 'software tools I need to finish the job', plus get myself paid too. This is why I trained myself to use GIMP, because just doing the job, as opposed to getting approval to buy a tool, is simply so nice.

      I had a client that only knew MS Office/Excel and Outlook email for project management (laugh, I know); and I was stumped trying to answer the questions I was responsible for. Without budget approval for anything, I installed Drupal on a rented hosted VPS, imported the flat 2d spreadsheets, and gave proper database reporting the next day once they allowed me to do that. This extended the project several months for me, when otherwise I was basically on the way out the door for not answering what they wanted to know, using the tools they gave me; and no way would I get a budget or even time to use anything else. This is one example of what I mean when I say my investment paid off.

      --
      You can't be ahead of the curve, if you're stuck in a loop.
    41. Re:Piracy: Free Advertising by JasterBobaMereel · · Score: 2

      A good musician can make music on any instrument, but a virtuoso is normally only proficient on one instrument ..

      A professional should be able to design in any package, but a designer with in depth knowledge of a particular package will be able to use it to produce the same more quickly and in a way that is easier to maintain ...

      --
      Puteulanus fenestra mortis
    42. Re:Piracy: Free Advertising by Rie+Beam · · Score: 2

      Let's see what happens if we change Web Designer into Contractor

      "Well you're a pretty fucking shitty contractor then. Nail guns are a tool. You should be able to use hammers, wooden blocks, shoes or whatever to achieve broadly the same results while you are learning. You don't need a Ferrari to learn to drive."

      My point here being that having a personal preference about how you learn and do your job does not make them somehow inferior. It's specialization. If you're going to learn to do X, you're going to go with the tool that makes the job easier and, odds are, you'll continue to use that tool as a professional because it IS easier.

      Microsoft Office and Open/Libre Office do essentially the same thing; there's only so much a word processor needs to do, and both accomplish this is roughly the same standard way. What you're arguing is more akin to comparing Word to a WYSIWYG web editor; you can get roughly the same output, but the experience is different and offers difference advantages and disadvantages.

      And your point about the Ferrari -- yes, you don't need one to learn to drive, but at the same time, you're not going to compete in a NASCAR event with your friend's Astrovan, either. The tools you need don't have to be the best in the industry, but they do need to be usable, and preferring Photoshop over, say, a trialware version of Paint Shop Pro from 1998 doesn't make someone a bad person.

    43. Re:Piracy: Free Advertising by Riceballsan · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Because companies are subject to random audits by BSA etc... As well in a company environment no half way inteligent company would bootleg software because they know all it takes is 1 person to turn them in to destroy the company. Turnover is inevitable in a company, and it is equally inevitable that every few years you will have 1-2 people who left the company and aren't on friendly terms with it. Photoshop I believe is one of the best examples of software that is more or less intended to be pirated by the individual users. It is barely useful at all until you are an expert in it, you can't become an expert in it without using it for a long time, and it's price point is well above what any sane home user can afford to pay without high confidence that they are going to recoup the investment.

    44. Re:Piracy: Free Advertising by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've never used photoshop and I frequently use gimp. The last thing I did with it was edit the palette on a palette-indexed image. And the UI is completely retarded. You have to create a palette from the image and edit the palette in one part of the UI. Then go to a completely different part of the UI to re-apply the edited palette to the image. And back and forth and back and forth. Plus the UI is extremely non-discoverable: essential bits of palette functionality are only available from a right-click on the floating palette window. Which really isn't obvious.

      Every time I use gimp I find something new to hate about its UI. The functionality is there but it's a pain to use. However, I don't know that photoshop is any better.

    45. Re:Piracy: Free Advertising by Pope · · Score: 1

      Piracy? Of the game? It's a free download from the market.

      It costs $0.99 for iOS, where it was first released.

      --
      It doesn't mean much now, it's built for the future.
    46. Re:Piracy: Free Advertising by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "though an expert with gimp is likely more efficient than an expert with photoshop"

      there is simply no way that is true.

      just one big "for example": gimp has scripting (in LISP primarily, not easy, and other languages too) but photoshop has macro recording (easy) as well as scripting in a variety of languages. (Python etc.)

      sure you can produce beautiful works of art using mspaint but you would never argue that an expert is mspaint could be more efficient. Adobe is a massively paranoid company and has been terrified for years that a competitor would eat their lunch. They have not been standing still. Photoshop is not without it's quirks but

    47. Re:Piracy: Free Advertising by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What if the reaction hadn't "blown them away"? They have acted like the bunch of spoiled little crybabies they are.

    48. Re:Piracy: Free Advertising by dave420 · · Score: 1

      A virtuoso is just a very good musician. That's the only difference.

    49. Re:Piracy: Free Advertising by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      "Hey Billy, I found this great new game to play!"

      "Yeah? Let me know what it's called, I'll check that out"

      "I got it free online. You have to configure a couple cracks and the sound doesn't work sometimes but it's still-"

      "Sorry, I got it for $5 from Steam while you were talking. I don't want to configure anything extra, I want to just play"

    50. Re:Piracy: Free Advertising by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      . Piracy is the act of using something without giving money for it

      No, it's copying/distributing copyrighted works without permission of the copyright holder. Your argument, or claim about the definition of piracy is proven wrong by the existence of F/OSS.

    51. Re:Piracy: Free Advertising by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This worked well for Microsoft Windows. I don't remember much if any copy protection on dos 5,6, or windows 3.1. In those days, your hardware didn't necessarily come with the OS on it. 95 and 98 had license keys, but those were easy to re-use. Often those were sold pre-installed on the machine, so only the enthusiast needed to pirate it. All the while it was becoming ubiquitous and well known. Now since it's tied to the hardware and every other PC out there is a Microsoft OS, Microsoft is enjoying some nice profits.

      Apple tried this by giving computers to schools, but they lost out by making it so their OS only worked on their hardware, and charging a premium for the package. We'll see how this works out as history repeats itself with Android and iOS.

    52. Re:Piracy: Free Advertising by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Metallica is the reason i have not bought a CD since that day. And no longer even own any.

      It was their attitude. I can't be paying any money into a system that supports anybody like that. It feels alot more wrong than piracy.

    53. Re:Piracy: Free Advertising by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It'd be better to publicly give away their merch to like minded people who also agreed to give it away again in a year to drive down the price they could get for duplicates of such merch.

    54. Re:Piracy: Free Advertising by ultranova · · Score: 1

      Have people sign up to download the crippled training copy.

      Why cripple it? That just makes it look worse than it is. Offer a fully-functional copy for non-profit use (perhaps with the requirement that you mention the tool in credits?) and make money on for-profit licenses. Let the userbase grow unchecked so any new commercial project will have have people familiar and comfortable with your tool.

      On the same notion, why require registration? It does nothing but needlessly tax your system to send spam to throwaway e-mail addresses. And why prohibit reposting the files? Let the Pirate Bay handle the distribution costs. If you want userbase statistics, you can simply check the seeder/leech numbers on any torrents there to get a rough estimate.

      For most software, you are not going to make money from home users. You only make money from corporate users, so let home users use the software freely so they'll want it when they go work somewhere. A pirated copy is not a lost sale, it's a fraction of a sale in the making.

      --

      Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.

    55. Re:Piracy: Free Advertising by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Back when I was a young'un, piracy was owning an FM radio with a cassette deck. You'd listen to your favorite station, wait for a song you wanted, and hit the "record" button (and it was a real button that locked down along with the play button) and hope the FM quality was good enough to listen to later, and hope you weren't accidentally recording over a song you "pirated" the day before.

      I pirated hundreds of songs like that, filled mountains of cassette tapes with static-filled renditions of everything from Boston to Chicago to Hotel California. ;)

      Everyone I knew did this. We shared the pirated tapes among each other (file sharing) and no one cared. There were no law suits, no witch hunts of file sharing or anything of the sort. Strangely, despite this lack of litigation, the world continued to spin.

    56. Re:Piracy: Free Advertising by ultranova · · Score: 1

      Piracy is the act of using something without giving money for it.

      You are using oxygen generated by plants owned by me right now for free, you damn buccaneer! Not that I should speak, my plants soak in sunlight for free.

      Piracy is robbery at high seas. Copyright infringement is exactly what it says. What you describe goes beyond both, straight into some kind of absurd strawman capitalist dystopia from Hell.

      Seriously, think of what you write, or start thinking of who you should be paying in order to use grammar, 12 english words, and the concepts behind them.

      --

      Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.

    57. Re:Piracy: Free Advertising by JesseMcDonald · · Score: 1

      Back to the birds: interestingly the article did not mention their co-operation with a movie company, promoting some movie with Angry Birds Rio. Playing it a lot myself but actually don't know what movie it is, so promotion works great :-)

      Oddly enough, the name of the movie associated with "Angry Birds Rio" is "Rio". :-)

      As far as promotions go... I didn't even realize the game was based on a movie until I ran across the movie by itself, months later, and linked the names, so the promotional value in my case was about nil.

      --
      "The state is that great fiction by which everyone tries to live at the expense of everyone else." - Bastiat
    58. Re:Piracy: Free Advertising by crutchy · · Score: 1

      when you design software that be easily picked up by noobs, it generally becomes a hindrance to experts (ribbons are a perfect example). gimp was designed for experts.

    59. Re:Piracy: Free Advertising by crutchy · · Score: 1

      gimp has "Script-Fu" for macros (if you can't find or write your own plugin). experts who require a specific functionality would probably prefer a plugin to macros anyway (you can do macros by recording in MS Office apps too, but who actually uses it for anything expect getting the VBA code for the specific function they really want?). recording macros is about as noob as it gets.

      http://docs.gimp.org/en/gimp-scripting.html

    60. Re:Piracy: Free Advertising by engun · · Score: 1

      I wasn't talking about trees, not am I interested in pedantic discussions on semantics. I'm saying that in this context, specifically that of someone creating a piece of software, music, or whatever in order to make a living out of it, it's reasonable to expect that others should pay to consume it. It's reasonable to state that if they don't get paid for it, they will have no means of earning their livelihood through their work, which essentially harms the creative process. No type of excuse can hide this bare fact.

      The answer to this problem is not to deny that it is happening, which is nonsense, but to understand that the problem lies in greed and exploitation. Popular media is an essential part of culture. Denying people access to that media is essentially a way of denying people access to culture, an essential part of their social existence. Charging such high prices is a form of extortion. It is akin to charging $10 bucks for a glass of water (hyperbole, but you get the idea). Again, there's no need for extremist interpretations here, like, "oh hang on, you won't drop dead because you couldn't watch a movie" etc. Try not to miss the wood for the trees!

      The solution is, make things cheap, make it accessible, and make money on sheer, staggering volume. Make people respect copyright by not making copyright a joke. They can start by abolishing the ability to hang onto copyright hundreds of years after the original author is dead.

    61. Re:Piracy: Free Advertising by geminidomino · · Score: 1

      You really knew you'd hit the big time when you got yourself a "dubbing" setup with TWO tape decks. Just think, being able to rearrange the songs on the tapes? T'was the stuff of legends.

    62. Re:Piracy: Free Advertising by Kalriath · · Score: 1

      Yes but the asswankers at Adobe, unlike Microsoft, demand you produce Photo Student or Faculty ID to get a license key to activate it, hence you can't use it for home use. Whereas Office for Student and Teacher is basically "yeah, we trust you. Don't do commercial stuff with it 'kay?"

      --
      For a site about things like basic rights, Slashdot users sure do like to censor "dissent".
    63. Re:Piracy: Free Advertising by Kalriath · · Score: 1

      I'm afraid you don't understand how things like this work in large businesses. If one person says "here's the files" and they're PSDs usable only in Photoshop, invariably a manager will simply raise a CAPEX and purchase 5 copies of Photoshop. $1000 is a drop in the bucket when your board routinely sits to discuss whether to buy something for $20 million.

      --
      For a site about things like basic rights, Slashdot users sure do like to censor "dissent".
    64. Re:Piracy: Free Advertising by gullevek · · Score: 1

      Can GIMP handle CMYK? Does it already work with 16/32bit color space? Does it actually work with various color spaces?

      I honestly do not know, the last time I used GIMP (on a Mac) it was so horrible slow that I just gave up on it.

      I am pretty sure GIMP is very powerful, but when everyone uses Photoshop, it will be kind of hard to say "hey here is a gimp file". You alone probably has no problem with it.

      --
      "Freiheit ist immer auch die Freiheit des Andersdenkenden" - Rosa Luxemburg, 1871 - 1919
    65. Re:Piracy: Free Advertising by silentcoder · · Score: 1

      Yes, it does all those things.

      And this is partly why most gimp users don't use .xcf formats. It's incredibly rare at least for photographers to use psd's as well (in design it's a different matter), photographers generallly save as compressed tiff files, so whether you are using gimp or photoshop is fairly immaterial.

      That said, it's been a very long time since I tried but I believe gimp can actually open (and at one point could save) psd files anyway. Of course it's a moving-target-closed-format so I imagine they have the same difficulties as libre-office has with MS-Office formats - and this may not be perfect/up-to-date (I don't use the functionality myself so I wouldn't know for sure).

      --
      Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
    66. Re:Piracy: Free Advertising by chrismcb · · Score: 1

      Piracy is one of the greatest forms of advertising. In some businesses, it's called "word of mouth". Growing up, many of the products I was introduced to, and subsequently became loyal customers of, was thanks to "piracy" of one sort or another. Back then, nobody saw it as a bad thing.

      Piracy is NOT the same thing as "word of mouth" "Word of mouth" is when someone plays the game (watches movie, listens to music) then tells their friends. They can do this whether they pirate the game or not.
      And YES it was a seen as a "bad thing" back then. The rule of thumb for the copiers was copy all you want. The rule of thumb for the people selling the stuff is "DON'T PIRATE."

    67. Re:Piracy: Free Advertising by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If it's "more or less intended to be pirated by individual users", why aren't the companies explicitly saying so? Or do you believe that companies shouldn't be allowed to decide how they run their own business, and instead all business decisions should be run by the local basement-dwelling pirate?
      The BSA could do their audits if they like, but if your argument is that companies implicitly promote piracy since they believe it benefits them, I'd tell them to get fucked and have a pretty good case against them, as well as any court that a disgruntled employee wants to turn my company in to.

    68. Re:Piracy: Free Advertising by chrismcb · · Score: 1

      . Since then both I and Adobe have benefited from that initial piracy.

      Instead of stealing the software, you could have taken a class, learned to use the software. Then both you and Adobe would have benefited from you learning the software. The fact that you stole the software in your early years and then profited from it later, doesn't mean piracy is good.

    69. Re:Piracy: Free Advertising by chrismcb · · Score: 1

      e. They should mark it as training to potential sale.

      The business model that they choose, is their decision. You can't decide for them what business model to use. "Ohhh this company might profit if people stole there software and used it, therefore I'll steal their software." If the company felt they'd make more money by giving the software away, then they have the option of doing it. YOU don't have the option to take it from them

    70. Re:Piracy: Free Advertising by CODiNE · · Score: 1

      Bazinga!

      --
      Cwm, fjord-bank glyphs vext quiz
    71. Re:Piracy: Free Advertising by Riceballsan · · Score: 1

      Umm no I very clearly implied that companies don't promote piracy within, however while I agree officially it is the company's choice, Photoshop probably sells much better as a result of teens/college students pirating it and deciding that graphic design is what they want to get into, and then when working for a company encouraging the companies to purchase in it. I believe microsoft at one point was known for saying we would rather someone pirate our software than to purchase our competitors.

    72. Re:Piracy: Free Advertising by ciderbrew · · Score: 1

      I very miss spoke here. -- Instead of -- Have people sign up to download the crippled training copy. They should be giving the software away with decent documentation and training.

    73. Re:Piracy: Free Advertising by ciderbrew · · Score: 1
      I never said there was an option. I said they should.And if you read all of the above threads you'll get the point.It not the point you think you read.

      "Ohhh this company might profit if people stole there software and used it, therefore I'll steal their software."

      The point others and myself were making was - a lot of people use software they couldn't possible afford at the start of their career. When they get the skills, a company can hire them. The company buys the huge licence. For a software company you want your software to be the skill set the industry is most familiar with. You can lock everyone into your brand by making sure everyone knows how to use your software productively. If you software costs 10k then you have to make it available to those who are learning.
      I use adobe products at work and we have all the big boy boy licences. The guy before me used Gimp and text pad. When I took over the job they bought suit for Photoshop and Dreamweaver etc. It wasn't a huge cost for the company and they wanted the job done. The Manager didn't care - just wanted website to be shinyshinyshiny. Adobe made their profit from me. If I learnt Gimp (i tried) and had the time up upgrade crap html using textpad adobe would be out of the picture. My only regret it using Dreamweaver so much it makes you lazy; but its faster - don't look at the code!

    74. Re:Piracy: Free Advertising by Reapy · · Score: 1

      My father mentioned once how as a structural engineer, he used to hate autocad back in the 80s, it just wasnt made to work yhe way they are trained. There were many other products out there that were much better but came with dongles and other crazy activation schemes.

      Well as time passes, many of their customers have pirated autocad, and start requesting work in that format, or they have done things in that format, can you take a look please. Pretty soon autocad is just what is used, popularity from ease of piracy makes it the dominate program.

      For other bad things of the same type see qwerty keyboards, or any closed ms office format

    75. Re:Piracy: Free Advertising by QuasiSteve · · Score: 1

      I know I'm late to the party, but...

      Yes, it does all those things.

      The GIMP does 32bpc now? I know it does 32bpp - but that's just 8bpc - red, green, blue and alpha. As far as I know, it doesn't even do 16bpc. And as far as I can tell from googling around, higher bitdepths are slated for 2.8 - which is not available in stable yet.

      Perhaps the development snapshot "does all those things" and then some. But the first thing you hit when you go to download The GIMP now is v2.6, which certainly doesn't do all those things.

    76. Re:Piracy: Free Advertising by silentcoder · · Score: 1

      Aaah yes, because photographers actually use those colors... oh wait, we don't and even the best cameras couldn't capture them anyway. No point really as the human eye cannot discern them.

      Out of the entire list, you found the one feature that is actually completely and utterly useless and made an issue about it. But if you so desperately need that feature for something - well it IS in the snapshots so it DOES do that one as well - this is open source - development versions are available to users you know.

      --
      Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
    77. Re:Piracy: Free Advertising by gullevek · · Score: 1

      I have no idea what photographer you are, but we do use 16bit per channel data. But perhaps you do not work in this kind of print area. It probably depends for what publication you do your work for.

      --
      "Freiheit ist immer auch die Freiheit des Andersdenkenden" - Rosa Luxemburg, 1871 - 1919
    78. Re:Piracy: Free Advertising by silentcoder · · Score: 1

      >I have no idea what photographer you are, but we do use 16bit per channel data. But perhaps you do not work in this kind of print area. It probably depends for what publication you do your work for.

      I work freelance, but when magazines ask me for print quality what I give them is uncompressed jpeg scaled to size at 300dpi. Never once have any of them requested anything different.

      --
      Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
    79. Re:Piracy: Free Advertising by gullevek · · Score: 1

      Interesting. When we do catalogue print there is only working in 16bit.

      --
      "Freiheit ist immer auch die Freiheit des Andersdenkenden" - Rosa Luxemburg, 1871 - 1919
    80. Re:Piracy: Free Advertising by silentcoder · · Score: 1

      Aah, well never done catalogue stuff. My photos usually accompany interviews. Anyway, I prefer art photography so most of my printwork is A3 blow-ups. I just take the occasional magazine job to pay bills.

      --
      Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
    81. Re:Piracy: Free Advertising by QuasiSteve · · Score: 1

      Aaah yes, because photographers actually use those colors...

      We sure do.

      oh wait, we don't

      You mean you don't

      and even the best cameras couldn't capture them anyway.

      Are you sure you're even referring to the same thing I am, here?

      I'm not talking about the color profile (or even CMYK work, as OP did), but about bit depth. The cameras will, of course, always only be able to capture what their color filters, sensors, etc. allow to be capture. If I'm hoping to capture IR with my camera, I'll want to remove the filter that blocks most of that first (or get a camera that lets it be flipped out of the way on demand). That is completely unrelated to the bit depth, however. With 8bpc there are 'only' 256 levels for each of the R, G and B channels. That may seem like a lot - until you start doing post processing; then you're going to wish you had a bit more to work with. Many cameras in RAW capture mode will capture 10bit (1024 levels), 12bit or even 14 bit. Even that 10bit is a lot nicer to work with.
      And that's just in the capture - the reason you'd want 16bit in the software is so that those 10bpc values don't keep getting re-converted to 10bit values while working with the file, accumulating error as you go (aspects of GEGL looks promising on this front, but for other reasons). You still do that in 16bit, but the error is much smaller.

      No point really as the human eye cannot discern them.

      Except that it can. See: http://i.imgur.com/NCeAi.png
      ( If you can't see it at all, your vision may be impaired. If it stands out like a sore thumb, you may be viewing it on an LCD monitor that has shoddy mapping from 8 bit to its native (such as 5/6/5bit))

      Granted, in straight photography without any post-processing work, the nature of the capture method imbues a natural type of dither (in the form of noise) to the image that breaks up any patterns that would make it obvious.

      Out of the entire list, you found the one feature that is actually completely and utterly useless and made an issue about it.

      I think other replies, and a quick Google search, would prove you wrong about whether or not it is useless - however, it may be useless to you.

      That said, you pointed out that it is in the snapshots, so anybody who wants it can get it from those - but to the average user 'The GIMP' is the current stable offering.

      P.S. If I had to pick anything out of The GIMP that I find lacking, it would be the transform tools rather than bit depth issues - but that's getting addressed in a future version and I happily use The GIMP in favor of e.g. Photoshop most of the time.

    82. Re:Piracy: Free Advertising by silentcoder · · Score: 1

      >And that's just in the capture - the reason you'd want 16bit in the software is so that those 10bpc values don't keep getting re-converted to 10bit values while working with the file, accumulating error as you go (aspects of GEGL looks promising on this front, but for other reasons). You still do that in 16bit, but the error is much smaller.

      But you just made my point - even the best camera captures only capture in 14 bpc values. I am sorry if I was unclear about what I meant. Either way - this is not a crucial feature for professional art photography with heavy post processing.

      http://silentcoder.co.za/photography/art/Inside-Out/ http://silentcoder.co.za/wp-content/gallery/art/boudoir/Caryn%20and%20Caity/thumbs/IMG_6181.jpg

      Perfect quality - heavy (though very subtle) post processing.

      So while you may find higher bit depths useful, they are not in fact required for good quality post processing. That is, if you know what you're doing (for starters, once you import your RAW, don't change the bit-depths again, EVER - and never scale unless you have to and if you must scale use liquid-rescale).

      >P.S. If I had to pick anything out of The GIMP that I find lacking, it would be the transform tools rather than bit depth issues - but that's getting addressed in a future version and I happily use The GIMP in favor of e.g. Photoshop most of the time.

      This is true - they aren't quite as good as they could be, but they are already much better than they were in the past and will only improve. Personally I prefer to limit my transforms to cropping for composition anyway so it doesn't bug me much. As far as I'm concerned if you're rotating an image you took it wrong in the first place.

      Either way - my point is still simple. I'm a professional art photographer. I've been published in several international magazines. I use gimp and it does everything I've ever needed.

      --
      Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
  4. Uh oh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    We took something from the music industry

    Incoming lawsuit?

    1. Re:Uh oh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      LOL! Perfect.

  5. Really? by brit74 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Really? A company that sells their product for a dollar finds it's uneconomical to drag pirates into court? Besides, it's easy for people to buy Angry Birds since it's easily searchable in the AppStore, and most people would find it way more trouble than it's worth to try to pirate it and save themselves a few bucks. They have a huge convenience advantage over pirates.

    1. Re:Really? by Sqr(twg) · · Score: 4, Insightful

      This is exactly the situation the music industry was in. If they only had created an easy way to buy and instantly download songs for a dollar a piece, piracy and sites like napster would not have become so popular. Alas, they chose to rely on lawsuits instead, probably costing them billions in lost revenue, untlil Apple more or less forced them to join the iTunes store.

    2. Re:Really? by wvmarle · · Score: 1

      It's free (ad-supported - or no ads if you don't have an Internet connection) from the Android Market.

    3. Re:Really? by EETech1 · · Score: 2

      I wonder what (insert big music biz name here) would have said to the junior executive that dared bring up the thought of $10 digital album downloads or $1 single track downloads ten years ago.

      You know there's gotta be a few ITYSs out there, although their most likely working elsewhere by now.

      Bitching at the bar about getting fired for coming up with iTunes.

      Cheers!

    4. Re:Really? by DZign · · Score: 3, Insightful

      True.
      And their business model isn't a perfect analogy with the music industry, so their comparison doesn't hold true.
      Btw I know I'm playing devils advocate here.

      But the music industry are in fact middlemen between consumers and the artists themselves, and their product (revenue) comes from the music itself (songs, on cd, downloaded, ..) but not tshirts, posters, concerts, .. as usually the artist benefits most of that.

      Rovio can be compared to the artists (who also sell themselves). Their main product are downloads of their games. Anything else that is copied (tshirts, posters, toy dolls, ..) can indeed be seen as free publicity, which will help make their brand stronger, which in the end results in more sales of their core product: downloads of their games.
      And those producers that pay for a license to make related products, are seen as additional income streams, but licensing the Angry Birds brand is not their core business.
      If enough illegal dowloads of their full games become available, or other people will make clones of their games (think angry owls/bad birds/..) and this causes a significant drop in sales of their own games, they'll also have to react (by legal means) to survive as a company, as their main income stream is treatened.

      If you want to compare to the music industry, then compare them to artists. Most (small) bands don't earn a lot from cd sales, getting known is better for them, even if it's by illegal downloads, as this will mean they'll become more popular, do more and bigger concerts, sells related things (posters, tshirts, ..) and so on, and these are things that increase their income.

    5. Re:Really? by DZign · · Score: 2

      Continued - but still Rovios point is correct, it's better to treat (potential) customers as fans and try to win them for you so they'll eventually buy your product, than act like the music industry and be arrogant and sue everyone, as this will only cause your customers to abandon you even more..

    6. Re:Really? by Mabhatter · · Score: 1

      Of course the real money is in merchandizing anyway. There are 3 $.99 games they make a little money from.

      But how much do they make from products? Their cut of Tshirts, lunch boxes, posters, stuffed animals is probably bigger per unit than the actual game. In their case the "game" is the marketing hook to get fans to buy 2-3 licensed items. Licensed items are much harder to lose money at because the bug stores want to buy from legal sources...

    7. Re:Really? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Right, but the point is it works, going after file sharers doesn't work - the music industry are in the same space price wise, but instead of taking this easy going view, they've decided to play hard ball and alienated a LOT of people in the process. At least some subset of those people will now continue to pirate even if the price is right and the delivery mechanism is convenient, just on principle due to the way these companies have reacted and they won't feel sorry about that at all. That's just incredibly bad business.

    8. Re:Really? by ctusch · · Score: 1

      And what exactly is the difference? A song costs me a dollar. and is easy to purchase (Amazon, iTunes, ...). Still, the RIAA is quiet happy to sue people for pirating songs.

    9. Re:Really? by N3Bruce · · Score: 2

      IDK, 50 million downloads at a buck apiece is quite a chunk of change, and will more than pay for the development costs and bandwidth to distribute it. The rest is gravy.

    10. Re:Really? by kiwimate · · Score: 2

      1. The article is talking more about physical products like plush dolls and t-shirts with Angry Birds brands.
      2. They got people hooked by giving the original Angry Birds as a free app. The follow-up apps were what you had to pay for. And yes, pathetic, isn't it, that people would pirate something that only costs a dollar. Except that if you read one of the comments on the article, you find...
      3.

      Cheaper prices may help reduce piracy on SOME platforms, but not all. I've a friend who developed an iPhone game, it got into the top 10 downloaded charts, but it still got pirated to hell. And it was 69p. If people are willing to rip off a game that costs less than a cup of tea then there's no hope.

    11. Re:Really? by Twillerror · · Score: 1

      "was in"????

      Then why is their still so much piracy in music. Many of these sites started after iTunes, after Amazon MP3, after Google music.

      There are a thousand ways to preview music before buying it. 99 cents to buy the main track of an album from a legitimate site should not be that much to ask. Turn on the radio, ask friends, hit the preview button. Is it really that hard to figure out if you like Brittany Spears or not?

      So why do people still pirate music? Because they don't want to pay!!! It is not to "experience" more.

      People download "game of thrones" not because they want to see if it is good...it is good...they download because they don't want to pay for cable and hbo. You might think it is too expensive, but that is no excuse. Game of thrones isn't like photoshop that is going to help you in your career. If the person isn't willing to pay for HBO today they are not in 5 years...not when they can get it for free.

      Painting piracy as a good thing across the board is just as bad as painting it bad across the board.

    12. Re:Really? by Sqr(twg) · · Score: 2

      Then why is there still so much piracy in music?

      Because the people who started pirating when legal music was expensive, difficult to copy to a mp3-player, and likely infect your computer with a rootkit. are still doing it today.

      People resist learning new things. They know how to find the music they want on TPB, so why bother learning how to buy it legally? (Conversely: They know how to buy games for their iPhone legally, because the cheap, efficient, legal option was there from the start, so why bother learning how to pirate them?)

      With TV-series, it is the same exact same situation. People download Game of Thrones because they live outside the US and their only other options are to wait a year for the local network to pick it up, or to wait a year to buy the DVD. One day the producers are going to realize how stupid it is to not offer the series legally in all markets simultaneously, but by then most people will be used to pirating, and not bother to learn how to do it legally.

    13. Re:Really? by Arashi256 · · Score: 0

      No, I pirated Game of Thrones because there's no such thing as HBO in my country and Game of Thrones isn't available anywhere else. Not everywhere is the USA, you twerp.

    14. Re:Really? by Cederic · · Score: 1

      So why do people still pirate music? Because they don't want to pay!!! I

      I don't pirate music but I also don't want to pay. I refuse to give that industry my money.

      Fuck them. Fuck their archaic business model. Fuck their aggressive anti-customer practices. Fuck their bullying. Fuck their lies. Fuck their politician bribing corruption. They can fuck off, they aren't getting my money.

      I stopped buying CDs when Napster went down, and I refuse to pay higher than CD prices for a fucking digital download.

      They had a chance to embrace a new distribution platform, offer value for money, increased choice, give their customers a better deal and they opted against all of those things. So fuck the music industry.

    15. Re:Really? by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      I'd be interested to see how $2/album DRM-free downloads would do. At that price, you can buy an album to see if you like a band, and not be too upset if you don't. At $10/album, or $1/track, it's often cheaper to buy the CD - and then you don't have to bother making a backup.

      I've found with GOG that for $3 I'll buy games that look as if they might be fun, and often not even get around to downloading and trying them for a month or so. With music, it's still at the price where I think about buying it, rather than just impulse purchasing.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
  6. He is right by future+assassin · · Score: 4, Informative

    Photoshop anyone?

    --
    by TheSpoom (715771) Uncaring Linux user here. I have nothing to add to this but please continue. *munches popcorn*
    1. Re:He is right by dropadrop · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Photoshop anyone?

      This 5x

      Most people would easily get their problems solved with Gimp, and if there was a huge user base of simple users they might even make an easier "Lite" version out of it. Adobe knows, so they don't put meaningful copy protection in their applications. They know their target customers are corporations since normal people won't have 500-1000€ to throw into such an application, so they just try to ensure that people are accustomed to their products already before working anywhere. This way once they get a job they'll be asking for photoshop instead of permission to download Gimp.

      I even see this at work. Somebody who's only need for editing graphics is resizing a logo from 250*120 pixels to 125*60 pixels will be running photoshop to do it...

    2. Re:He is right by mwvdlee · · Score: 2

      Somebody who's only need for editing graphics is resizing a logo from 250*120 pixels to 125*60 pixels will be running photoshop to do it...

      Coincidentally, rescaling is one of the few areas Photoshop isn't very good at, compared to what is possible with some free applications.

      --
      Slashdot social media options: AIM, ICQ, Yahoo, Jabber and Mobile Text. Why no MySpace?
    3. Re:He is right by dropadrop · · Score: 2

      Somebody who's only need for editing graphics is resizing a logo from 250*120 pixels to 125*60 pixels will be running photoshop to do it...

      Coincidentally, rescaling is one of the few areas Photoshop isn't very good at, compared to what is possible with some free applications.

      But it's the corporate standard... :)

    4. Re:He is right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      It's even more awesome than that - they don't just have purposefully-poor copy protection, but you can download the full suite of software, for free, from their website. A few /etc/hosts entries later, and you've got the full whack for free. I guess they want to protect their reputation by ensuring it's as easy as possible to get their software in a form unaffected by "release groups" or viruses, and to not piss everyone else off. They must know that people will buy their software if they can - I know I certainly do.

    5. Re:He is right by s7uar7 · · Score: 1

      if there was a huge user base of simple users they might even make an easier "Lite" version out of it.

      They do: http://www.adobe.com/products/photoshop-elements.html

    6. Re:He is right by Kalriath · · Score: 1

      And their trial is buggy as hell. No matter how hard I try, my copy of Photoshop trial refuses to expire! I don't have to pirate it, because it pirated itself.

      --
      For a site about things like basic rights, Slashdot users sure do like to censor "dissent".
  7. Ripping Off by cosm · · Score: 5, Insightful

    ...Angry Birds brand, or ripping off its fans.

    Because Rovio brought us the first of this wonderful concept of projectile-tower crushing. No ripping off there. Never been done. Glad people pay for it. **puts on old and bitter smug-cap, goes back to Crush the Castle 3**

    --
    'We are trying to prove ourselves wrong as quickly as possible, because only in that way can we find progress.' RPF
    1. Re:Ripping Off by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...Angry Birds brand, or ripping off its fans.

      Because Rovio brought us the first of this wonderful concept of projectile-tower crushing. No ripping off there. Never been done. Glad people pay for it. **puts on old and bitter smug-cap, goes back to Crush the Castle 3**

      Wait a second, Angry Birds is published in December 2009. I remember some similar flash games with the same concept long before. In Artilery Duel you could "projectile-tower crush" in 1983.

    2. Re:Ripping Off by sjames · · Score: 1

      Except that people DON'T pay for it. It's a free download. They pay for Angry Birds pillows, shirts, plush toys, etc etc, but not the games.

      Like rock groups, they make nothing on what they're primarily known for, it's all the extras that make them money.

    3. Re:Ripping Off by dave420 · · Score: 1

      Rock groups make the lion's share of their money from live appearances, not merchandise. Unless you're talking about KISS, but those guys can go eat a KISS-brand bag of KISS-brand dicks.

    4. Re:Ripping Off by sjames · · Score: 1

      Yes, and they often make nothing at all from album sales.

    5. Re:Ripping Off by dave420 · · Score: 2

      Indeed, they can even sell a million albums and end up owing money to the record company.

    6. Re:Ripping Off by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If KISS were incredibly stupid. I have no sympathy for people too stupid to retain the services of a music lawyer before signing the contract that will shape their careers.

    7. Re:Ripping Off by AttyBobDobalina · · Score: 0

      Or as Yogurt said in Spaceballs: Moichendising!

    8. Re:Ripping Off by Mjlner · · Score: 1

      ...Angry Birds brand, or ripping off its fans.

      Because Rovio brought us the first of this wonderful concept of projectile-tower crushing. No ripping off there.

      Hang on there! Your misunderstanding the portion you quote! Hed said "or ripping off its fans". Not at all the same thing as copying an idea or plagiarizing.

      --
      Lemon curry???
  8. Well, well. by mykos · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Paulo Coelho would tend to agree with them, even taking it a step further. He's joined up with Pirate Bay as part of an arts promotion program.

    1. Re:Well, well. by Sigg3.net · · Score: 1

      I don't think it counts when you just copy your own material.

      *rimshot!*

  9. Gotta Test Drive A Car Too! by EETech1 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    My friend downloaded a cracked and pirated copy of angry birds, and he liked it so much (as did his wife) that they both purchased the full copy of the game. He sent it to me, and I purchased it also (having tried the free version and went Meh...) but probably would not have, had I not gotten a chance to see all of the levels, and really appreciate the game!

    Probably 75 percent of the games that I have ever purchased, I have played a pirated version first not the demo. Especially when you can get all of the levels or vehicles unlocked and use all of the different weapons and just give it a good run through to be sure it's really worth having.

    If it's not worth buying, it's not worth keeping the pirated version around either!

    Cheers:)

    1. Re:Gotta Test Drive A Car Too! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Same here.. i heard the game was good, but didn't have the motivation to buy it (didn't believe the reviews)... i pirated it on IOS a while back and now me and my wife own 4 legal copies on IOS, Droid and PC (since the game proved to be good)

    2. Re:Gotta Test Drive A Car Too! by crutchy · · Score: 1

      same for me with StarCraft... played a pirated copy for years and then bought it one day because I had the dosh and I wanted the books and to be able to play online if I felt like it (never have yet)

      Then Blizzard became the ass of a company they are today.

    3. Re:Gotta Test Drive A Car Too! by sound+vision · · Score: 1

      "Pirated version not the demo..."

      It's been close to a decade since PC games (consoles too?) had demos... I'd say piracy has completely replaced demos. The last one I remember playing is the Far Cry demo. The original Far Cry.

      Seriously, if anyone can name me off even four big-name PC games released since 2006 that have had demos, I'll eat my hat.

    4. Re:Gotta Test Drive A Car Too! by houghi · · Score: 1

      Well, the "Gotta Test Drive A Car Too!" defense is something I tried with several religions before I married, but they all disagreed that that is NOT how it worked. Weird.

      --
      Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
    5. Re:Gotta Test Drive A Car Too! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Try before you buy doesn't make so much sense when its a buck. What the fuck is up with you cheapskates.

    6. Re:Gotta Test Drive A Car Too! by psiclops · · Score: 1

      ahh back then when blizzard was awesome and they'd let you install a spawn version on as many PCs as you wanted using your license however they could only play online and against you.

      then WoW, and i hate to say it but D3...Eck(i loved D1 & 2, but D3 beta really has me considering not bothering to buy the game)

      --
      i spent five minutes thinking and all i got was this crappy sig
    7. Re:Gotta Test Drive A Car Too! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'd say it is more of expectations than anything else. For example, the console market seems more driven by the fact that the new game is yet another FPS by EA, or the latest Madden can display the nostril hairs of the opposing quarterback when close up.

      Games are bought these days because of advertising. The days of actually trying a demo, then buying the game seem to be behind us. Instead, we get the hype machine 6-12 months before a game is released (or more exactly, escapes due to the early beta, then patches to get a game to late beta quality.)

      Oh well... someone will come along with playable demos and be the next ID.

    8. Re:Gotta Test Drive A Car Too! by Cederic · · Score: 1

      30,000 games on the Android market and you expect me to buy all of them to find out which ones I want to play?

      Shit, wish I had your disposable income...

    9. Re:Gotta Test Drive A Car Too! by Cederic · · Score: 1

      Sure. FM2009, FM 2010, FM2011, FM 2012. There's four big-name PC games that sold millions of copies and all had demos.

      Ok, I cheated a little. How about:

      Kingdom's of Amalur?
      Total War: Shogun 2?
      Trine 2?
      Dungeons?
      Might & Magics Heroes VI?
      Duke Nukem Forever?
      Serious Sam Double D?
      Magic the Gather: DotP2012?
      Darkspore?
      Dungeon Siege III?
      Divinity 2?

      Ok, admittedly I've had to go as far back in time as May last year, but I've also skipped numerous indie titles.

      Maybe many of the triple-A titles like COD-MW3, BF3 and Skyrim didn't have demos but I didn't want to play them anyway.

    10. Re:Gotta Test Drive A Car Too! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Seriously, if anyone can name me off even four big-name PC games released since 2006 that have had demos, I'll eat my hat.

      I eagerly await the hat eating. Pics or it didn't happen.

  10. Microsoft has been doing it for years by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    Even though they would probably never admit it, IMHO this is how Windows and MS Office got so popular.
    I do not believe MS would not be able to come with a better way of protecting against illegal copying. It is just that allowing people to copy windows without much effort created a very nice near-monopoly on OS for them.

    1. Re:Microsoft has been doing it for years by hcs_$reboot · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Even though they would probably never admit it

      They did it involuntarily.

      --
      Slashdot, fix the reply notifications... You won't get away with it...
    2. Re:Microsoft has been doing it for years by prehistoricman5 · · Score: 1

      Well I've heard a MS rep come very close to saying that. When he was talking about Dreamspark, he pretty much outright stated that its purpose is to get students hooked on their development software so that their future employers will buy a copy later.

      --
      Fuck Beta
    3. Re:Microsoft has been doing it for years by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I recall either Bill or Steve (that's Chairs, not Jobs) saying something like:

      "As long as they are pirating software, we want them to pirate OUR software".

      Though that was about countries like China, where piracy and free software are the only affordable options. Still, I'd count that as admitting it.

    4. Re:Microsoft has been doing it for years by GreatBunzinni · · Score: 4, Informative

      They did it involuntarily.

      Not quite. They did it voluntarily, and in a very explicit way. Bill Gates himself has said the following:

      "Although about 3 million computers get sold every year in China, people don't pay for the software. Someday they will, though," Gates told an audience at the University of Washington. "And as long as they're going to steal it, we want them to steal ours. They'll get sort of addicted, and then we'll somehow figure out how to collect sometime in the next decade."

      Even the founder of Microsoft stated that the unauthorized (and free) distribution of Microsoft products is benefitial for a company such as his own. The totalitarian copyright enforcement crap only comes in as useful if a product already attained a reasonable market share, and therefore there is a copyright to enforce. Until there isn't a copyright to enforce, they simply turn a blind eye for convenience and due to business sense.

      --
      Slashdot, fix your code or at least hire someone who is competent at it to do it for you.
    5. Re:Microsoft has been doing it for years by devent · · Score: 3, Insightful

      That is why copyright should be never used against the private use of a work. Also it should not invade the privacy of the homes of citizens. Sadly, it is doing both and the new harder laws to protect copyright will destroy our culture.

      --
      http://www.mueller-public.de - My site http://www.anr-institute.com/ - Advanced Natural Research Institute
    6. Re:Microsoft has been doing it for years by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is exactly what the french tradition of copyright law defends: the access to copyrighted works explicitly for personal use is free and does not require an explicit authorization by the copyright holder, and it only becomes a civil problem if it is ever used for non-personal ends or unauthorized copies are being sold (i.e., piracy).

      The only reason why this has been turned upside down by the US government is due to the fact that, due to the internet, media distributors are no longer able to completely control the world's media distribution channels. So, before they lose their monopoly on content distribution they are proactively working to make copyright perpetual and to force their control on anyone who wishes to access content.

    7. Re:Microsoft has been doing it for years by Xest · · Score: 1

      It's not just DreamSpark, even Autodesk has a similar programme for students, they knew the situation years ago with gMax surrounding piracy and when they subsequently dropped it. They knew full well 3D Studio became the industry standard alongside Maya in the games industry because it's what people were pirating in the Quake modding days etc.

      I'm sure I remember years back Oracle doing a similar thing too, to ensure future DBAs were getting trained up in Oracle rather than a resurgent MSSQL etc. I'm not sure if they still do.

      Really, none of this is new at all, it's just been overshadowed by the fact that the likes of the music industry don't get it, and are suing their customers and exploiting government corruption to go as far as removing long established principles of a healthy society such as the right to fair trial, and being deemed innocent until proven guilty to further their failed cause.

    8. Re:Microsoft has been doing it for years by hughk · · Score: 1

      The protection on MS Office now has made it much more difficult to pirate. MS has been having a massive issue migrating people away from Office 2003. One issue is that it is perceived by some that it is easier to migrate some users towards LibreOffice/OpenOffice than to MSO 2007 and upwards due to the very different user interface. Even if corporates continue to pay their VUP license, it is still an overhead for Microsoft to continue to support older versions.

      Their solution has been a cheap home-use program so non professional users can use office at home for almost nothing, but only the latest/greatest version. In this way, the home users can educate themselves at home and hopefully for Microsoft will push their IT departments to upgrade.

      --
      See my journal, I write things there
    9. Re:Microsoft has been doing it for years by chrismcb · · Score: 1

      That is why copyright should be never used against the private use of a work. Also it should not invade the privacy of the homes of citizens. Sadly, it is doing both and the new harder laws to protect copyright will destroy our culture.

      Because a business claims they might make money because people took home a pirated version of the business software means copyright shouldn't belong in the home? So how is one supposed to make money off something targeted to the home user?

    10. Re:Microsoft has been doing it for years by devent · · Score: 1

      Just sell it to the home users? WTF is wrong with the people, only because someone can share his stuff with friends, you are not able to make money with selling stuff? I have news for you: people are sharing their stuff with their friends all the time.

      Copyright and DRM really don't matter in the private home. Nobody consider it immoral to share a game or music with their friends. But instead to call it free promotion and word of mouth marketing, you like to push copyright laws so far that everyone hate the music and film industry now.

      Beware, the next generation will take the internet and free sharing to the next level and no law will stop that. You think that the P2P networks, TOR, Torrents, etc. are all bad now? What do you think the next generation will do? This generation can recall a time without internet and without fast DSL lines. The next generation will have no memories of "offline", they will be connected 24/7 with their cell phones and sharing music, games and films. The new copyright laws are just like someone try to stand against a tsunami.

      The current legislations and politics makes a whole generation of citizens into criminals. That will have a big slashback from the generation. Look at the Occupy Wall Street movement.

      --
      http://www.mueller-public.de - My site http://www.anr-institute.com/ - Advanced Natural Research Institute
  11. *thud* by elecwolf · · Score: 0

    I can't believe this... If this really is true and not some 'honeypot' scheme, then I think I have a company I feel I can believe in.

    --
    David 'Volk' Mc. Itazura!
  12. What do they care? by Zorque · · Score: 1

    They stole the idea from a bunch of flash games without innovating and are now raking in unbelievable profits on games, toys, advertising, etc. What do they care if someone pirates something they put barely any effort into?

    1. Re:What do they care? by Zorque · · Score: 2

      By the way, I don't mean that as any sort of troll. It just makes me mad when companies step all over indie game developers (although I guess Rovio could just be considered a larger breed of indie developer) and never credit or acknowledge them, as is clearly the case here.

    2. Re:What do they care? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What indie developer they should acknowledge then? There are about thousand similar games out there. It's not like Rovio actively tries to prevent them becoming popular.

    3. Re:What do they care? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      rovio is not indie in roots, it's a contract developer in roots funded with eu+nokia cash and did work for years before doing angry birds(they just didn't have a real hit before angry birds).

    4. Re:What do they care? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That doesn't change his underlying point. The music industry makes a fortune off Bieber merchandise and advertising and whatever, but they still whine when people download a 99c song from a filesharing site. Rovio's point is get those people interested in your product and you'll make more in the long run, go after them with a sledgehammer and you'll probably just lose their interest. In fact, I'm more impressed that this is coming from such a big player and not a tiny little indie outfit - if they can get it maybe there's hope yet.

  13. the sw is just small part of the piracy by gl4ss · · Score: 3, Informative

    ..one of the "pirated" products was a fucking theme park.

    --
    world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
  14. If Beethoven is alive today ... by Taco+Cowboy · · Score: 5, Insightful

    ... he would be filthy rich - and his offspring will be forever filthy rich as well, thanks to our "perpetual copyright laws"

    Unfortunately, he ain't

    That is why Beethoven died dirt poor

    But on the other hand, the world is far more richer because no one could monopolize the wonderful music of Beethoven

    --
    Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
    1. Re:If Beethoven is alive today ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I thought copyright expired 75 after the death of the author?

    2. Re:If Beethoven is alive today ... by sjames · · Score: 5, Informative

      A good story, but not what happened. He described himself as penniless for a while due to the costs of caring for his sick brother (there's something many in the U.S. can relate to) and his lack of output during that time, but he wasn't exactly out on the streets (in fact, he was still able to appear as a nobleman). Several bouts of personal illness and a protracted legal battle didn't help either. However, he left an estate when he died.

    3. Re:If Beethoven is alive today ... by crutchy · · Score: 5, Insightful

      in the US, it only depends on how good your lawyer is

    4. Re:If Beethoven is alive today ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      would he though?

      Or would the fact that his music is tied up behind IP laws meant more room for alternatives?

    5. Re:If Beethoven is alive today ... by houghi · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You could say the same for Rubens Oh wait, not only was he filthy rich, he also put his name on the work of his students, thus pirating his own students.

      Also Beethoven might have been rich today, that would not mean his offspring would be as well. His record producer would be and most likely he still would be dirt poor.

      There are plenty of musicians today that are not rich. Some just like music more then they like money, just like some would never work for a specific company, no matter how much they like coding.

      It is a pity that money is seen as the only proof of success.

      --
      Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
    6. Re:If Beethoven is alive today ... by Gription · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Actually it depends on how good your lobbyist is...

      And while you are at it you should incorporate because Washington recognizes that the rights of individuals are subordinate to the rights of corporations. Don't go in groveling. If you go in as a corporation they are already trained to do whatever you ask.

    7. Re:If Beethoven is alive today ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If Beethoven had been filthy rich, how much would he have worked?

      Here, I'll answer for you - hell, I'll answer twice!

      1 - He would have reduced his output as his standard of living rose. End result for us: bad.

      2 - Being an artist, a driven creator, his output would have been the same but, as you point out, it would be less well known / commonly played due to monopolisation by copyright holders. End result for us: bad.

      Sorry Beethoven, if I had a time machine I'd stay well away from you.

    8. Re:If Beethoven is alive today ... by The+Creator · · Score: 1

      They are likely to be extended before the 75 years are up. And then be extended again before the new period is up..

      --

      FRA: STFU GTFO
    9. Re:If Beethoven is alive today ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You can divide the world between women who want cash and women who don't bath or like to get beaten up.

    10. Re:If Beethoven is alive today ... by postbigbang · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Add to this, the fact that the current installs of Angry Birds on many Android mobiles (can't speak for iOS) ask to be allowed to do everything but perform a DNA analysis on you. They want to have your phone traffic info, GPS info, network connection info.

      And for what, using a free game? No, no, I'm sure they're using that information for good, just like Google does.....

      --
      ---- Teach Peace. It's Cheaper Than War.
    11. Re:If Beethoven is alive today ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But on the other hand, the world is far more richer because no one could monopolize the wonderful music of Beethoven

      Sorry, I'm calling bullshit on this one. You've never heard Beethoven's music, and neither has any other living person. The musical notation of his time period was not Standardized to a point where the notation alone is enough to re-create it. Composers worked directly with the performers, part of this was due to the lack of Standards but was mostly due to there being no other way to protect their work from being stolen.

      All we have ever heard are interpretations of his music. It was indeed the lack of copyright which has made the world richer, but not because people were able to copy his music. It was because people couldn't copy his music, and had to re-create it as best they could on their own.

    12. Re:If Beethoven is alive today ... by hairyfeet · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Nice strawman you have there, don't mind the match...WHOOSH! One has exactly fuck all to do with the other, you might as well have said 'Welll...instead of playing with your iPhone you should go out and catch kiddie fiddlers". And most of us had NO problem with copyrights as the founding fathers intended, but the simple fact that Walt Disney, a man whose been dead longer than most of us have been alive, has most of his first works, works made when planes were made of cloth and antibiotics were just a dream, they are STILL under copyright? i'm sorry clueless but that is just fucked up. You have a right to make money from your works, you do NOT have a right to eternal profits, either make NEW things, which was the whole point of copyrights, to give the artist the money to continue working, or kindly GTFO.

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    13. Re:If Beethoven is alive today ... by trum4n · · Score: 1

      also people install that free game, then buy the tshirt...etc.

    14. Re:If Beethoven is alive today ... by postbigbang · · Score: 1

      Once again, we're the victims of spin.

      --
      ---- Teach Peace. It's Cheaper Than War.
    15. Re:If Beethoven is alive today ... by seandiggity · · Score: 2

      Oh wait, not only was he filthy rich, he also put his name on the work of his students, thus pirating his own students.

      That's the bedrock of the current patent and copyright systems. Substitute "students" with "employees" and "artists"...

      --
      Geeks like to think that they can ignore politics, you can leave politics alone, but politics won't leave you alone.-rms
    16. Re:If Beethoven is alive today ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      OK then, let's go with Mozart.

    17. Re:If Beethoven is alive today ... by omega8932 · · Score: 1

      Only until Mickey starts to become public domain again....

    18. Re:If Beethoven is alive today ... by muindaur · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Every time a movie is released on DVD or shown in the theaters it's copyright date is extended. This is part of the reason, other than making more money, DIsney does it's "Before it goes back in the vault" marketing: probably the second part of CD box sets too. Before copyright law was changed to allow home movie releases to extend copyright, they would release the film in theaters about every ten years. Like I said, it's the second part to the reason other than making more money. A convenience they lobbied congress for.

    19. Re:If Beethoven is alive today ... by westlake · · Score: 2

      That is why Beethoven died dirt poor

      Beethoven died dirt poor because the Napoleonic Wars destroyed the patronage system --- and deafness his (very substantial) income from live performance.

      But on the other hand, the world is far more richer because no one could monopolize the wonderful music of Beethoven

      Beethoven is a transitional figure --- a professional musician and composer in the modern sense more than ready and willing to break from bonds of the patronage system. It is quite easy to see him lobbying for strong copyright and performance rights.

      Very easy if you see him --- correctly --- as a major talent with much more yet to give but visibly aging and physically disabled.

      Unable to earn an income from the sale of tee shirts and coffee mugs sold off the arena stage.

      For the premiere of his First Symphony, Beethoven hired the Burgtheater on 2 April 1800, and staged an extensive program of music, including works by Haydn and Mozart, as well as his Septet, the First Symphony, and one of his piano concertos

      The {Secomd Symphony premiered as a ]subscription concert in April 1803 at the Theater an der Wien, where Beethoven had been appointed composer in residence.... Reviews were mixed, but the concert was a financial success; Beethoven was able to charge three times the cost of a typical concert ticket.

      Beethoven's business dealings with publishers also began to improve in 1802 when his brother Carl began to assume a larger role in the management of his affairs. In addition to negotiating higher prices for recently composed works, Carl also began selling some of Beethoven's earlier unpublished works, and encouraged Beethoven to also make arrangements and transcriptions of his more popular works for other instrument combinations. Beethoven acceded to these requests, as he could not prevent publishers from hiring others to do similar arrangements of his works.

      Beethoven's hearing loss did not prevent his composing music, but it made playing at concerts --- a lucrative source of income ---- increasingly difficult. After a failed attempt in 1811 to perform his own Piano Concerto No. 5 (the "Emperor"), which was premiered by his student Carl Czerny, he never performed in public again.

      Ludwig van Beethoven

    20. Re:If Beethoven is alive today ... by Hatta · · Score: 5, Insightful

      If Beethoven were alive today, he'd be making tiny residuals while the recording industry made millions off of the rerelease of his works on BluRay.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    21. Re:If Beethoven is alive today ... by Pope · · Score: 1

      Angry Birds on iOS asks to use Location Services. I have no idea why, there's nothing site-specific about the game. It also costs $0.99, so it's not like they need geo-targeted ads to support themselves.

      --
      It doesn't mean much now, it's built for the future.
    22. Re:If Beethoven is alive today ... by Hatta · · Score: 1

      And most of us had NO problem with copyrights as the founding fathers intended

      In order for copyright to work as the founding fathers intended, we require the same level of technology as the founding fathers had. Advances in technology have made copyright unenforceable, even for just a year. Putting the digital cat back in the bag is simply wishful thinking. We have to choose between copyright and general purpose computers. We can't have both.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    23. Re:If Beethoven is alive today ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      In college courses I've had instructors out and out tell me that copyright was there so the company could make money. Period. There is little understanding even among the "educated" about the true constitutional intent of copyright and it's a problem.

      The thing is that even if you set copyright at a solid 20 years the author could still continue to make money on that work throughout their life. They could release a new edition of their work after the copyright is expired and thus have a derivative work (and the *definitive* edition to boot) and a brand new 20 year term. This example is actually HOW it is supposed to work. It forces the author to do new work (even if it is to add a new forward or the like). Copyright is supposed to spur NEW work, not let someone like J.D.Salinger write one book and never have to work again (which is what happened).

    24. Re:If Beethoven is alive today ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Rubens is not a fair comparison to a composer. *Composers* generally made a lot of their money by producing new music (sheet music) for their patrons or selling it directly. It was (even back then) trivial to copy someone's musical composition. It is not trivial at all to copy a painting, especially not to copy it so it is not immediately obvious the painting is a copy. Good paint-counterfeiters have to be pretty damn good artists in their own right.

    25. Re:If Beethoven is alive today ... by mcgrew · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You could say the same for Rubens Oh wait, not only was he filthy rich, he also put his name on the work of his students, thus pirating his own students.

      That's not pirating, that's plagarism. Plagiarism helps nobody but the plagiarist. Piracy helps the artist. Roger McGuinn's career died when the labels decided he was too old for rock and roll, and it was resurected with Napster, who he said brought his music to a whole new generation. Speaking of McGuinn and The Byrds, the lyrics to "Turn, Turn, Turn" are in the public domain -- they come straight from the King James bible.

      Cory Doctorow came to the same conclusion as Mikael Hed a long time ago. As he says, nobody ever went broke from piracy, but many artists have starved from obscurity (Van Gogh comes to mind). He credits the fact that he publishes under a GPL license, gives his books away as ebooks on boingboing, and encourages sharing for his status as a New York Times best seller.

      I credit the free public libraries for the fact that I have a couple dozen Asimov titles on my bookshelf; were I not to have been able to read him for free, I'd never have bought any of his books.

      There are plenty of musicians today that are not rich. Some just like music more then they like money, just like some would never work for a specific company, no matter how much they like coding.

      I know quite a few musicians, and none of them are rich. Most do it as a second job simply because, as you say, they love music and love playing. None of them would touch an RIAA contract with a ten foot pole.

    26. Re:If Beethoven is alive today ... by RobertLTux · · Score: 1

      actually the thing is if anything copyright should be SHORTER since it is now possible to make your fortune a lot quicker.

      The whole Life + X thing was to provide for the estate OF THE ORIGINAL ARTIST (and to prevent somebody from knocking off a popular artist just to be able to hijack that artists work). Right now the GRANDCHILDREN of Walt Disney are getting funds from even Walts early works. This would be a problem. I think that right now a way to bridge what we have to what we should have is to require active copyright holders to license their property to all comers unless actual damage to the property/rights holder can be proven (so no Condoms with Disney Characters would be allowed). Also we need to narrow the definition of the rights to allow for close copies (so somebody can have a blond fairy that normally wears Green without drawing fire from Disney for hijacking Tiinkerbell)

      --
      Any person using FTFY or editing my postings agrees to a US$50.00 charge
    27. Re:If Beethoven is alive today ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You can divide the world between women who want cash and women who don't bath or like to get beaten up.

      True, but I'm not sure why you'd want to.

    28. Re:If Beethoven is alive today ... by hairyfeet · · Score: 1

      That was before Disney kept hitting the snooze button friend, now we have "forever minus a single day" just as Valenti, may he rot, envisioned. Personally I think we need a "keep your God Damned mouse' law where we tell Disney just keep your God damned mouse and STFU and the rest of the world will move on while they keep jumping up and down on Disney's corpse to milk that IP.

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    29. Re:If Beethoven is alive today ... by kiwimate · · Score: 1

      Except that he made most of his money from patronage. Every time this argument is raised on Slashdot ("we'd never hear anything by Mozart or Beethoven or..."), people always ignore that inconvenient factoid.

      Now, that said, he was notoriously irresponsible with his cash and squandered it throughout his lifetime. By the time he reached his latter years (during which he was very unproductive due to his well known poor health) he was surviving mainly by sellling his works.

      Off-topic, I know, but although I actually don't know what his financial state was upon his death, I do recall he had a pretty lavish funeral, suggesting it wasn't terrible.

    30. Re:If Beethoven is alive today ... by cdrguru · · Score: 1

      Beethoven died a pauper mostly because he refused to fit his work within the confines of the patronage system that existed at the time. While other composers were doing exactly what their patrons wanted, Beethoven apparently did not.

      Hence, no money while all around him the music world was filled with people having plenty.

      Sure, we are all better off thanks to Beethoven's going his own way, but how likely is that today? If your boss comes up to you and says he wants you do to X and X is ugly, repulsive and offensive to you, do you do it anyway or get fired? Are your artistic expression and principals worth more than some money? The answer for the most part today is "No way, I gotta eat.".

    31. Re:If Beethoven is alive today ... by kiwimate · · Score: 1

      If Beethoven were alive today he wouldn't understand this debate because he made almost all of his money from patronage!

    32. Re:If Beethoven is alive today ... by sjames · · Score: 1

      Don't confuse customary minimalist funeral arrangements with poverty...

      Just because he (like most people these days) he needed to keep working to make ends meet doesn't mean he lived in poverty.

    33. Re:If Beethoven is alive today ... by dave420 · · Score: 3

      It doesn't, though. No GPS, just course network-base location (for their ads, no doubt), phone info for personalisation. So yes, they're using it for the adverts that make the game free to have. Don't want it? Don't click "install".

    34. Re:If Beethoven is alive today ... by ediron2 · · Score: 1

      Every time a movie is released on DVD or shown in the theaters it's copyright date is extended.

      That's news to me. I don't think representation / performance alters copyright.

      Remastering: does restart copyright on the remastered edition.
      Adding content: ditto.

      But once released, a movie gets life plus 90 unless it is changed. That's why old movies or books can be brought into Project Gutenberg, regardless of new editions or new releases.

    35. Re:If Beethoven is alive today ... by Politburo · · Score: 1

      Ignoring the fact that Salinger did publish things after Catcher, your reasoning makes no sense. Salinger would have made plenty of money off of 20 years, certainly enough to live on for the rest of his life since it wasn't like he was traveling the world or anything.

      And you consider simply adding a new foreword as a new work? Absurd.

    36. Re:If Beethoven is alive today ... by pr0fessor · · Score: 1

      Bach's Well-Temper Clavier set the stage for modern tonality but it wasn't until much later that it became a standard and artists like Fredrick Chopin carried it around as the ultimate reference and even today. Yes, we don't even tune our instruments in the same manner as Beethoven so I can only imagine what it would have sounded like with slightly flat fifths.

    37. Re:If Beethoven is alive today ... by s4ltyd0g · · Score: 1

      If Beethoven were alive today, he'd be scratching on the roof of his coffin...

    38. Re:If Beethoven is alive today ... by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      In order for copyright to work as the founding fathers intended, we require the same level of technology as the founding fathers had.

      Not necessarily. Previous copyright laws said that to gain copyright, the work had to be "affixed to a tangible medium," like a piece of round plastic, pigment smeared on cloth, or ink stained into paper. Copyright still works IF it only applies to tangible media -- and bits on a hard drive are hardly "tangible", let alone electronic pulses going through a wire.

      Before the Bono Act and the DMCA the idea of "intellectual property" didn't exist. Authors and publishers were aware that their monopoly was for a limited time.

      Copyright would work if noncommercial copying were deemed legal. People like stuff to put on shelves, especially like books and music and other items that show that they aren't entirely stupid and may even be literate. Music should not be considered a thing for sale, it never was before. You never bought music, you bought an LP or a cassette, and it was perfectly legal and ethical to loan that physical copy to someone who would then copy the intangible music to another tangible medium.

      You can't sell music, you can't sell a novel. Use your music to sell records (whether tape, LP, or CD) and use your novel to sell books. BTW, look for "mcgrew paxil diaries" on bittorrent. Lots of folks have enjoyed it, nobody's (yet) told me thay thought it sucked. I won't sue you, I put it there myself. When I get around to making printed copies, you can buy one.

      Copying didn't just start with the invention of the computer. Hald the cassettes I (still) own I made from other peoples' LPs. Nobody thought it was evil or unethical, and in fact it was legal. I see no difference whatever between loaning you my Metallica CD and uploading "free speech for the dumb"; in either case, you have gained and nobody has lost. And if you'd never heard of Metallica and liked it, you'd go out and buy their albums.

      And were copyright lengths 20 years rather than virtual eternity, it would have a lot more respect from everyone.

      BTW, my parents are in their eighties. Steamboat Willie is older than either of them. Do not respect laws that are themselves disrespectable, and especially if logic tells you they are unconstitutional.

    39. Re:If Beethoven is alive today ... by postbigbang · · Score: 1

      Sure.

      When I tried to install it, it asked. Your citation is your citation; my experience is my experience.

      So I opted out.

      I didn't install. And I won't.

      --
      ---- Teach Peace. It's Cheaper Than War.
    40. Re:If Beethoven is alive today ... by Cederic · · Score: 1

      You forgot the class of
      - women with a child that just want someone adult to hug from time to time

      I'm still trying to work out if my shallow desire not to support/raise/look after someone's kid outweighs my desire to, erm, give her a hug from time to time.

    41. Re:If Beethoven is alive today ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      so somebody can have a blond fairy that normally wears Green[...]

      After reading just that portion of that line, I was expecting you to say Nintendo instead of Disney.

    42. Re:If Beethoven is alive today ... by chrismcb · · Score: 1

      Every time a movie is released on DVD or shown in the theaters it's copyright date is extended.

      That isn't how copyright works. Copyright has to do with the date of creation/publication/release. When the movie is first released the copyright date starts to tick. The copyright date gets extended when the owners go and lobby to congress and get the date extended. Now if they CHANGE the movie and rerelase it, the new stuff is copyrighted on the new date. BUT the original movie's copyright time keeps ticking and doesn't change.

  15. Microsoft already knew this... by Tastecicles · · Score: 2, Interesting

    ...which is why they supplied keys for their OSes separately to the media. Why they went for hooky VLKs and those distributing them instead of the end users using them. Establish the user base and lock them in, when you get the planned obsolescence running properly, as they have now, then you've got a captive audience and every fucking penny they will ever earn for the rest of their lives.

    --
    Operation Guillotine is in effect.
  16. Rovio != music majors by hcs_$reboot · · Score: 2
    From TFA

    We could learn a lot from the music industry, and the rather terrible ways the music industry has tried to combat piracy

    This is not a surprise, the two companies don't see piracy from the same angle.
    The Music industry and their executives come from this ancient business model where people have to purchase physical and palpable objects, like potatoes or condoms ; they had then to - slowly and awkwardly - adapt to the new digital technologies.
    Rovio on the other hand is a young enterprise having every staff member fully immersed in the digital world from day one. Definitely not the same mentality.

    --
    Slashdot, fix the reply notifications... You won't get away with it...
  17. Depends by djchristensen · · Score: 2

    I think the validity of this viewpoint depends on just how many people will end up purchasing after pirating. If too many people decide they'll be the pirates and let someone else be the purchaser, then the model breaks done. Making purchasing easy and of reasonable perceived value will help, much like Apple did for digital music sales (which the music publishers still seem to be unhappy about, the ungrateful bastards).

    1. Re:Depends by dmomo · · Score: 1

      This leaves out the fact that the pirate may not buy it.. but might mention the game to a friend... who then buys it. So, the "word of mouth" thing still stands. Not sure how much, but it makes sense.

    2. Re:Depends by Xeno+man · · Score: 1

      Actually you really don't need to over analyze the model as it's self regulating. The bottom line is you need a good product. If it's crap, no one will buy it, it's it's good, many people will buy it. As the ratio of pirate to purchase goes up, the less profitable software will be. As businesses close and migrate away from software the demand for good software goes up as there is less supply. With less supply, more people will be willing to pay for good software reversing the pirate to purchase ratio.

      Business make software to make money and always will as there is a core group of people that demand software that will pay for it. Worrying about how you could have made a little more money or being upset that someone got something for nothing or throwing money at a group of people that are not willing to pay you, takes away from the group that wants to pay you.

      Look at the music industry, if they focused on the people that bought their music and made it easier for them to buy it and share it, they would have more friends and money but instead they decided to focus on the people that don't want to pay by suing people for ridiculous amounts of money, creating DRM software that takes away from the people that are supporting them and trying to pass new laws that would let them do more of the same.

    3. Re:Depends by olau · · Score: 2

      That's simplifying it. Lawrence Lessig in Free Culture has a deeper analysis. Remember as long as those people not paying would never have paid anyway, you are not loosing any customers, just gaining fans.

    4. Re:Depends by dave420 · · Score: 1

      No, that metric really is of little consequence, unless you believe that everyone is willing/able to pay for the game in the first place, which is patently false. People frequently don't decide whether they're pirates or not, that usually is forced on them, or is intrinsic in their nature. Either way the number of "lost sales" logically has to be far fewer than we're made to believe by RIAA/MPAA. The only thing that the company has to be concerned about is how many loyal customers they can make, and how many they can keep by not being assholes.

    5. Re:Depends by delinear · · Score: 2

      This is exactly the point. The pirate might not buy the game after playing it for free - but then he might never have played it at all if he couldn't get it free. There's now an increased chance that he'll buy the sequel, or buy some of the massive range of merchandise, or just enthuse about the game to his friends and family, or just tell people in general that Rovio are a pretty cool company. That's all about winning "mindshare" - companies will happily spend millions advertising their products to people who have never given them a penny, but then they'll balk over a copied $0.99 download - it's just incredibly short sighted.

  18. Microsoft Windows a success story of Piracy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Have you ever questioned about why Microsoft doesn't block (almost totally disable) your computer when Windows detects your copy as illegal?, something like disabling the login to the system until the user enters a valid key, it only displays a message: "your copy of windows is illegal ...", it is not convenient for them to disable the operating system tools

    1. Re:Microsoft Windows a success story of Piracy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      That has nothing to do with piracy. They actually used to lock your system down alot more when it was flagged as pirated. The thing is, there were false positives and people who legitimately owned their copy got locked down. Then there was the huge pain of helping people who don't have internet access unlock their PC over the phone...

      Anyways, a Win7 crack cannot be detected. Isn't that special? Wonder why they got to work on Win8 so fast?

  19. Exactly. by MrEricSir · · Score: 4, Funny

    That's why I always use the bathroom in the restaurant next door.

    --
    There's no -1 for "I don't get it."
  20. Probably by Greyfox · · Score: 3, Insightful

    That's why MS DOS, Windows, etc did so well back in the 90's. All you needed to clone a DOS system was a floppy disk. I don't know if I ever saw legitimate MS install media. Of course, once they got well-established, they started cracking down...

    --

    I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?

    1. Re:Probably by gl4ss · · Score: 1

      dunno, I saw plenty, because they came bundled with the brand name machines(ibm, amstrad, osborne etc) and offices had them.

      I even saw a legit dr-dos copy. yeah, msdos had compatible competition.

      --
      world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
    2. Re:Probably by Emetophobe · · Score: 1

      Doom and Quake also became hugely successful during that time period, though it's hard to say how much of that was piracy versus id Software's successful shareware business.

  21. Re:In before... by unkiereamus · · Score: 4, Insightful

    In before someone justifies their piracy by saying they help with advertising.

    Oh wait, only six posts as I type this and already too late.

    I'm going to go ahead and abandon modding on this article, because I can't believe no one has called you on this crap.

    Specifically, TFS and TFA both defend piracy by saying they help with advertising, specifically quoting people who are (massively successful) content creators, you know, the folks who are financially impacted by piracy...

    Look, I can see both sides of the argument (well, in detail it's more than 2) about piracy, I can see how they both have valid points, and am unwilling to come down firmly on either side.

    What I can't support is someone who is so much a zealot that they resort to this sort of attack by ignoring basic facts.

    --
    I needed a sig so people would know who I am, but I was too drunk to make something witty, so you get this instead.
  22. I really wanted to watch Van Helsing the other day by Idimmu+Xul · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I really wanted to watch Van Helsing the other day. I just wanted to watch it, not own it. I've recently had a cleanse and sold all my DVDs to a second hand store, only keeping my wild life documentary Blu-Rays as I got a bit fed up with having hundreds of DVDs cluttering up the flat.

    After scouting around, on Amazon it is about £8 for the Van Helsing Blu-Ray, on iTunes it is about £8 to buy/download forever Van Helsing.

    I'm not a fan of buying movies to keep like that, I just wanted to watch it once, not keep it on a HDD for the rest of my life, i figured to me it's worth £1 to download/stream and view once.

    Lovefilms do PPV at £3.49 for most films, Van Helsing wasn't available and that's more than I wanted to pay anyway. They also do unlimited streaming for £5pm.

    Netflix do unlimited streaming for £6pm but their site didn't seem to show Van Helsing and there wasn't a one off option.

    iTunes only lets you buy, not one off stream and that's the same price as the Blu-Ray.

    BitTorrent on the other hand had it readily available for free, but I don't pirate so watched my copy of Planet Earth instead.

    Am I unreasonable in wanting to watch once an 8 year old film that had a budget of $160 million and broke $300 million in the box office for £1?

    Is it unreasonable to not want to pay monthly subscriptions to a service that doesn't have the film I want to watch anyway which forces me to watch more films than I want in order to get value for my money?

    Is it me that's broken, or their business model?

    --
    The problem with slashdot is that most of its users were bullied and stuffed into lockers as kids!
  23. Re:I stole a car the other day ... by mwvdlee · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Could you please explain how you stole a car without the owner losing it?
    You know, like the digital copies this article is about.

    --
    Slashdot social media options: AIM, ICQ, Yahoo, Jabber and Mobile Text. Why no MySpace?
  24. Re:I really wanted to watch Van Helsing the other by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I think it's you that is broken if you can bare to watch movie like Van Helsing even once.

  25. Re:I stole a car the other day ... by Pentium100 · · Score: 2

    And the best part is - everyone is stealing the same car! Everyone brings a replicator to just outside the dealership, scans the car inside and the replicator produces a new car In other news, the oil industry is suing everybody and is trying to make replicators illegal because they can create gasoline for free so nobody is buying real gasoline, just using the replicated one.

  26. Re:I really wanted to watch Van Helsing the other by evilviper · · Score: 1

    Is it me that's broken, or their business model

    They have to set a price, and there will always be people who will consider it reasonable, and those who don't. That doesn't mean their business model is broken, and doesn't mean the person who isn't willing to pay is broken either.

    Checking the Android App store, I see it's available for $2.99USD, or about £1.90. But since you're using that funny-money, that probably means you're in one of those OTHER countries, where studios get horribly poor royalty rates, and so charge considerably more in general. I hardly care, but there's probably some regulation issue that would need to be addressed to get the UK price lower, and in-line with the US pricing.

    But, I certainly don't understand the mindset of "I'm not a fan of buying movies to keep", so maybe you are broken.

    --
    Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
  27. RIAAs response by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "We took something from the music industry, .."

    See you in court!
    - RIAA

  28. Appstore economics. by Half-pint+HAL · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Rovio's attitude stinks, because it just runs on the same lines as all appstore economics.

    Rovio have made millions, but they're the exception -- most mobile apps get few or no sales. The profits in mobile apps, spread across all writers, would amount to a pretty pitiful wage. Losses to lower-order app developers mean loss of (already rubbish) income. Losses to Rovio mean little or nothing, considering the scale they're on.

    Advertising? Well, three things:

    1) It's well established that piracy tends to favour known and popular materials over unknown and unpopular, in all media. It therefore serves to further entrench the established players -- so it's great for Rovio, not much use for John A B Smith Software.

    2) The entrenched players in mobile apps are supported by their appstore ratings, compiled from legal downloads. Even 100,000,000 downloads of a pirated game wouldn't get it above Angry Birds in the appstore charts, so it wouldn't get commercial discovery and success.

    3) Angry Birds is a brand, and the toys and cartoons make lots of money. Most apps aren't merchandisable. PocketPlayPool -- are you going to market branded balls? GTCarsXXVII -- the manufacturers retain all likeness rights to their own models, so there's nothing to market. Same goes for EAProSportofchoice20xx and sports personalities/teams.

    So what Rovio is supporting is market conditions that favour their particular product, which is very different from market conditions that ensure a robust and healthy competitive environment, or that ensure innovation and development.

    --
    Got them moderator blues I blieve I walk out the do', With these mod-points I been gettin', I 'most never post no mo'
    1. Re:Appstore economics. by ghostdoc · · Score: 5, Insightful

      If your customers aren't buying your products, please stop whining about customer behaviour and change your products to suit the market.

      If your business model doesn't make money in the market you've chosen, please stop whining about the market and change your business model.

      So what Rovio is supporting is market conditions that favour their particular product, which is very different from market conditions that ensure a robust and healthy competitive environment, or that ensure innovation and development.

      The market is fixed. Your business model and product is flexible (or should be). So change your product so it suits the market conditions.

      Rovio understood that the market they chose to operate in has a large amount of piracy. Instead of trying to change the market to suit their products, they chose the eminently more profitable option of working out how they could make piracy work for them. As you've pointed out, one of the ways they did this was by launching merch to go with their game that allowed them to take advantage of the fanbase generated by pirate players. As another poster pointed out, the game they created is not unique and the Castle version doesn't have the merch potential, which is possibly why Angry Birds made a lot more money from the same game.

      Pirating software is going to happen regardless of any action you take. It's a fact of life in the market. So you can choose to view pirated copies as lost sales and let your business plan get broken by it, or you can choose to view it as free marketing and incorporate it into your business plan.

      --
      Business/App ideas are like arseholes: everyone's got one, they're mostly shit, but very rarely they contain a diamond
    2. Re:Appstore economics. by nomaddamon · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I'm a hobby developer for WP7 with 2 of my friends. The first thing we do on every release is upload our app to various torrent sites and seed the hell out of it.

      If someone has jailbroken their phone and is capable of and interested in finding, downloading and installing a pirated app on their phone, they are lost revenue for us anyway.
      Our only hope of revenue from these users is to provide them with good enough app so that they keep using it and might buy it (and advertise the app within their circle of friends, who might not be competent enough to pirate the app)

      If it is easier to buy the app on appstore than to pirate it, then pirates are good for you

      I can't say for sure that we wouldn't have made it without piracy, but currently we have 5 simple apps out and with total cost of 2000$ for launch advertising (and "free" work for 2-3 weeks at nights, after our daily jobs) per app, we gross around 6500$ every month

      Since we seed our apps ourselves, we see that approximately 20% of installations are pirated (~2000 torrent downloads vs ~10000 sales via store every month) but we are sure that without the 20% "lost" sales, we wouldn't make the top charts of legal downloads... ever....

    3. Re:Appstore economics. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Except that Rovio is lying, they specifically told XDA to remove modded versions of their games that block ads and remove copyright protection. This is a PR stunt, pure and simple. They are saying "PIRACY IS GOOD" while mumbling under their breath "for our competitors hahaha"

      FWIW I am not a game dev, so dont bother painting the naysayers as disgruntled devs with inferior products. That's as presumptuous BS as the RIAA saying they lose 100 trillion to piracy.

    4. Re:Appstore economics. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If your customers aren't buying your products, please stop whining about customer behaviour and change your products to suit the market. If your business model doesn't make money in the market you've chosen, please stop whining about the market and change your business model.

      Exactly. All of these small software companies should stop their crying and start marketing stuffed animals, calendars, and key-chains using elements from the software. If they don't, it's their fault for not changing their business model.

      Can't wait for Zippy the Winzip plush.

    5. Re:Appstore economics. by psiclops · · Score: 1

      If someone has jailbroken their phone and is capable of and interested in finding, downloading and installing a pirated app on their phone, they are lost revenue for us anyway.

      ahh finally, a dev who understands. Pirates are gonna pirate, it's what they do. you can't do shit about it. Trying to stop them is futile at best and damaging at worst.

      --
      i spent five minutes thinking and all i got was this crappy sig
    6. Re:Appstore economics. by ghostdoc · · Score: 1

      That's one possible business model. Not the only one. Off the top of my head in 5 minutes:

      - Move to a free purchase but paid-for additional features model. That works for a lot of game software.

      - Move to a free purchase but paid support model like Red Hat and other open-source software.

      - Add a server component that requires a licence. Make the server component optional but useful so pirate users will eventually buy the licence. This works for multiplayer games.

      - Use a voluntary pricing model, it works for Humble Bundle

      - The ad-supported route works for a lot of free software

      - Sell your soon-to-be-pirated software to a large company as an advertisement medium in its own right

      All of these work better than whining on /. that life is somehow unfair and pirates are ruining the software industry because the world doesn't work the way it "should".

      --
      Business/App ideas are like arseholes: everyone's got one, they're mostly shit, but very rarely they contain a diamond
    7. Re:Appstore economics. by Em+Adespoton · · Score: 1

      Doesn't this prove Rovio's point? The entire point of that article, as far as I could tell, was not to do with piracy so much as it was to do with treatment of potential customers.

      What Rovio has done is chosen to produce a product that can grow a large fanbase, as opposed to a product that has to rely on technical merits alone. It's the same thing Apple has done with their hardware, the same thing sports teams do, and, when it comes down to it, the same thing that's done in fine and performance art circles. Basically, if you work in the realms of intellectual property, you can probably choose to market yourself and your vision in such a way as to create a fanbase. Once you do that, you no longer have to worry as much about piracy, as it will more likely increase that base instead of draining it.

      EA titles, for example, already have the fanbase of the fanbase of the brands they market within their games... so since their games are often merchandising themselves, piracy has to be handled differently. They don't have (many) EA fans -- instead, they have merchandise fans that would quickly switch to a different publisher if the other publisher got the distribution rights to the brand they love. As a result, EA profit is much more sensitive to piracy; as a result, they've had to change their profit structure on mobile games to not depend so much on first sale profits, and also to attempt to build more of a fanbase around the EA name.

    8. Re:Appstore economics. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Arguably, since you're (presumably) the copyright holders and you're seeding the torrents yourself, the people downloading it from your torrents are as legitimate as those buying it in the app store, and therefore aren't "pirates".

    9. Re:Appstore economics. by Half-pint+HAL · · Score: 1

      If your customers aren't buying your products, please stop whining about customer behaviour and change your products to suit the market.

      If your business model doesn't make money in the market you've chosen, please stop whining about the market and change your business model.

      I'm not currently a mobile app developer, so your assumption that I'm just an unsuccessful whinger is invalid -- you can stuff your strawman you-know-where.

      However, I am considering becoming a mobile app developer in the near future, and I'm looking at all the variables in order to try to find a viable strategy. Rovio's opinions provide no insight into how I can turn a healthy profit, given the field I work in (language education). Rovio's specific example provides an incredibly narrow, short-sighted view of value. Angry Birds is lowest common denominator stuff -- it's like the mobile app equivalent of reality TV: massively popular but of no real consequence.

      A language learning app is of real-world value, but there is very little scope for a secondary income source unless you're very very big and can score a licensing deal to provide VoD as a learner resource. Obviously that's outside my reach.

      Until I have some idea how I'm going to be able to sell it, I'm reluctant to make it....

      --
      Got them moderator blues I blieve I walk out the do', With these mod-points I been gettin', I 'most never post no mo'
  29. Re:In before... by gmhowell · · Score: 1

    Ignoring what facts? That people would use the article to justify piracy?

    --
    Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon
  30. Grep this by wreakyhavoc · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The music industry cries foul about file sharing, but you can find almost any music track on Youtube.

    Music execs are finally getting wise to the benefits of try-before-you-buy. Artists certainly have been for a while.

    What exactly is the difference between listening to a new album - or even watching full videos - on Youtube, and downloading them from peers to listen to before buying? They know it increases sales, yet insist on draconian measures to the contrary. I smell a rat.

    I listen to a lot of stuff. When I find something that really excites me I want to buy it. I want to support the artist(s). It makes me feel good to give them direct feedback that what they've created is worthwhile and they should do more. It's as much a gift to me as to them. You know, like charity or volunteering, giving is the greatest gift, own reward, etc. Music that makes my heart sing is *really* worth something.

    It doesn't matter if they're some kids from the ghetto, or dinosaur rockers who got it together to put out something that cooks like they used to, before they sold out to the cookie cutter pop machine. Even though I can listen to it already.

    I'm sure the music industry gets this. It seems to me that these sopa/pipa/acta type laws are more about censorship and consolidation of power than lost sales.

    --------

    "Do what I say when I tell you to do it."

  31. counselling london by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    http://www.talkingtherapies.info

  32. Re:I really wanted to watch Van Helsing the other by crutchy · · Score: 1

    i think that's why we have movie rentals, although they aren't cheap either i must admit (better than cluttering my living room with movies i'll never watch again though)

  33. 'Cept for Meme and my monkey by wreakyhavoc · · Score: 1

    And the Pirates have won.

    Seriously, pirate? When you smell a bottle of shampoo in the store have you pirated the scent?

    Of course if you're lathering yourself daily in the cosmetics aisle then there might be a bit of Bluebeard in ya.

  34. Re:I really wanted to watch Van Helsing the other by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's you who's going to be broken when the MAFIAA finds out you won't pay their protection tax. :P

  35. Pirates are only doing the work of FSM by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Blessed be the pigs, for they will inherit the eggs.

  36. Re:In before... by sjames · · Score: 1

    You got a flamebait mod because it's a free download in the market. It's OK to take one when the sign says "free, take one".

  37. Re:I really wanted to watch Van Helsing the other by gl4ss · · Score: 1

    the pricing is actually inverse.. the more it makes in box office - the MORE they figure they can ask from other markets too, since it's more desirable piece of media.

    --
    world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
  38. Piracy as a marketing strategy by SgtChaireBourne · · Score: 1

    "Even though they would probably never admit it..."

    Oh it gets admitted all right, even at the very top. Here are just two examples:

    As long as they are going to steal it, we want them to steal ours. They'll get sort of addicted, and then we'll somehow figure out how to collect sometime in the next decade. , said back in 1998

    "It's easier for our software to compete with Linux when there's piracy than when there's not" said in 2007

    When you have a monopoly the most valuable thing to protect is the monopoly itself. If they are running pirated software, then they are not using the competition.

    --
    Beta is broken and the link to classic doesn't work. Stop wasting our time or there won't be anybody left here.
  39. Re:In before... by dave420 · · Score: 1

    You didn't read the TFS and then wrote some snarky, bullshit-dripping nonsense claiming the opposite. That is flamebaiting, hence your moderation. We might be "freeloaders", but you're an idiot.

  40. Re:In before... by dave420 · · Score: 1

    People don't need the article to justify "piracy" (by which I think you meant copyright infringement) - logic and plenty of case studies do a great job of that already.

    Your butthurt over imaginary lost sales (or whatever nonsensical hurt you perceive) is ridiculous.

  41. Re:I really wanted to watch Van Helsing the other by houghi · · Score: 1

    As with everything it is supply/demand. The fact that you do not want the amount of money they ask for it does not mean that the business model is broken, just that sales is not a win/win situation.

    If somebody wants to pay you 1UNITper hour to do work and you demand 8UNIT per hour, that does not mean the system is broken. It mean you have different views on the value it represents.

    The fact that they made a shitload of profit should not mean anything to later transactions. You want to pay 1UNIT to see the movie. They want to receive 8UNIT to show it to you.

    So at least one of you has to change their perspective to be able to close the deal.
    If I go to a pub and they ask me 8UNIT for a drink and I only want to spend 1UNIT, then I will not get the drink, regardless of how well the business is doing.

    Perhaps the price they ask is directly related on how well they do. If they would sell at 1UNIT, then they would be broke very soon and not be able to serve me any drinks at all.

    --
    Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
  42. Re:I stole a car the other day ... by houghi · · Score: 0

    Joy riding. (Yeah, I know, gas was used and some tear on the car and tires)

    --
    Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
  43. Re:I really wanted to watch Van Helsing the other by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    it's van helsing - you should be paid to watch it.

  44. Re:I really wanted to watch Van Helsing the other by sound+vision · · Score: 1

    "Movie rentals" - I don't think Blockbuster DVDs (or UK equivalent) are any cheaper than the streaming solutions than the G.P. mentioned...

  45. MS Office another good example by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    When I used to fix PCs full-time, most users had MS Office installed on their PCs, and over 90% of the installs was a pirated version. Not many people wanted to spend $500 on the Office Suite, and Microsoft was fine with that, because at work pretty much everybody was using an officially licensed version.

    Let's imagine a hypothetical country with 100 million copies of Office installed, both pirated and non-pirated. Let's assume that home installs and work installs are about equal, with 50 million of each.

    Now, Microsoft COULD reduce the cost of full-on Office to $100 to capture a larger portion of the home market. Let's assume (rather optimistically) that every home user rushes out and spends $100. So that would be a total of $100x100M = $10 Billion.

    Or MS could charge what the business market will bear, and cheerfully accept home piracy. Now they are making $500x50M = $25 Billion. And a population sufficiently competent at Office that any alternative is met with resistance.

    To quote Bill Gates back in 1998: "As long as they're going to steal software, we want them to steal ours. They'll get sort of addicted, and then we'll somehow figure out how to collect sometime in the next decade."

    It's not a radical idea, it's a proven business model.

    1. Re:MS Office another good example by Cederic · · Score: 1

      I can download the full professional edition of MS Office for £9 due to a work discount.

      To do that I'm entering my credit card into the MS website and downloading directly from them, so I'm pretty comfortable that this is legit.

      Trust me, I wish I could get the fullscale release of Photoshop for the same price. I'd actually buy that, whereas MS aren't even going to get £9 from me for Office 2010 - I'm happy with LibreOffice and Google Docs.

  46. Re:I really wanted to watch Van Helsing the other by devent · · Score: 1

    And here comes Torrents and P2P networks into play. They have to compete with illegal downloads, if they want to or not. Also they have to compete with other forms of (legal) entertainment, like free games, free Youtube videos, etc.

    Like it or not, the value of films are going down and if they don't adjust people will turn to other form of entertainment or to illegal downloads. I didn't bought a DVD in years now, and I see that other people don't buy DVDs or music CDs in stores, too. I see it every time I go to the store, I see all the DVDs are there just like the year before and the year before. People don't buy them because they are just too expensive. It's over 30Euro for a new film, and the older films are for 15Euro. A DVD pack of a series cost about 30 to 60 Euros. That's just way too expensive.

    The entertainment industry is blaming it on piracy, but piracy is just a symptom not the disease. The "disease" is that the market have changed with new technology and so the value of the DVDs in the store have gone down. But instead of adjusting like it should be done in a free market, the entertainment industry is changing the laws, but it will not help. The cure would be to lower the prices and make the films available as a download.

    AS a personal note: if the older film DVDs were for like 5Euro for sale, I would think about it to buy some. And there would be not racks after racks full with DVDs that don't sell in 10 years in the stores.

    --
    http://www.mueller-public.de - My site http://www.anr-institute.com/ - Advanced Natural Research Institute
  47. Re:I really wanted to watch Van Helsing the other by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's you that is broken. Van Helsing is terrible, terrible shit.

  48. Re:I really wanted to watch Van Helsing the other by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    My response to this was to do a catalog search of the local public library system. Fifteen Van Helsing DVDs currently not checked out (and a bunch that were checked out, and a few VHS tapes) that I could go get for free for a week.

    I have no idea what public libraries are like in the UK (or other countries), but in the US they're often one of the best options for older movies you don't want to purchase.

  49. Re:Free Advertising by TaoPhoenix · · Score: 1

    Okay, you are on the path to the future but you're driving too close to the bramble bushes.

    *Sharing* is the greatest form of advertising.

    So those things you became loyal to, were because of sharing. You know, like they said to in Kindergarten. Then along came copyrights. (And accusations against sharing homework! Oh cool - did I just find another Copyright angle to play with!?)

    So the true evil these corporations are playing is all the fun of Sharing-Marketing but with the power to crush anyone who then becomes a threat!

    Semi-related. A while back I engaged in an unfortunately short dialogue with an author about his book. He said he was interested in non traditional marketing. So I sent him a couple of notes asking for him to create a Creative Commons version to replace the usual nasty Copyright message. He declined to reply. So sorry, I can do nothing as long as that double standard is in play.

    Painguy, if you're around, I hope you change your mind.

    --
    My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
  50. Re:I really wanted to watch Van Helsing the other by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I didn't bought a DVD in years now, and I see that other people don't buy DVDs or music CDs in stores, too. I see it every time I go to the store, I see all the DVDs are there just like the year before and the year before. People don't buy them because they are just too expensive.

    You realise that when stores sell products, they restock the shelves right?

  51. they took something from the music industry?! by Cyko_01 · · Score: 3, Funny

    We took something from the music industry...

    NOBODY takes ANYTHING from the music industry without paying for it! I'm sure they will have RIAA lawyers on there doorstep within a few hours.

    ...which was to stop treating the customers as users, and start treating them as fans

    oh, they were just kidding - the music industry has yet to learn this lesson.

  52. Re:I really wanted to watch Van Helsing the other by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    But, I certainly don't understand the mindset of "I'm not a fan of buying movies to keep", so maybe you are broken.

    It is easy to understand. He only wants to use stuff, not store it.

  53. Re:I stole a car the other day ... by psiclops · · Score: 5, Funny

    you know, if you'd just pirate your movies like a normal person you wouldn't have to see all those silly "you wouldn't steal a car" ads at the start, and then you probably wouldn't think that stealing a car is the same thing as pirating software.

    --
    i spent five minutes thinking and all i got was this crappy sig
  54. Re:I really wanted to watch Van Helsing the other by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I haven't bought a DVD in years.. not because I don't want to... its because there is nothing worth buying...

  55. Or your PR dept. (Rovio is lying) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Except that Rovio is lying, they specifically told XDA to remove modded versions of their games that block ads and remove copyright protection. They did this several times. This is a PR stunt, pure and simple. They are saying "PIRACY IS GOOD" while mumbling under their breath "for our competitors hahaha"

    Or, more specifically they are saying piracy is fine as long as their in-app purchases, advertising, and merchandising are all making money. Basically they are saying they aren't concerned about their game being a loss leader. What they have essentially just admitted is their games have little to no value other than as a method to pull a consumer into their other product bases. He's pretending that he's pro-piracy when really they have just shifted strategy towards the MMO "freemium" model.

    Some proof: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=838184 (there are several cases of this happening, with XDA mods openly admitting they had been asked not to let these apps out there)

    Ok guys, I said I would look into improving Angry Birds and I did All ads are gone, and I optimized the app for better performance! Enjoy everyone, let me know what you think of it!!!! Also, please vote in the poll if you can! Thank you

    Thanks to: Creators of the game!

    Link down as requested by developers

    Piracy may cause publicity, but it doesn't come free. Anyone who says it's free PR is either deluding themselves or an idiot. Was some piracy good for their bottom line? Sure, probably. But they put the kibosh on it when it stopped being PR, and started cutting into ad sales.

    FWIW I am not a game dev, so dont bother painting the naysayers as disgruntled devs with inferior products. That's as presumptuous BS as the RIAA saying they lose 100 trillion to piracy.

    1. Re:Or your PR dept. (Rovio is lying) by Stewie241 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I think you're saying more or less what the summary says:
      See:
      "Hed explained that Rovio sees it as "futile" to pursue pirates through the courts, except in cases where it feels the products they are selling are harmful to the Angry Birds brand, or ripping off its fans."
      and
      " When that's not the case, Rovio sees it as a way to attract more fans, even if it is not making money from the products. "Piracy may not be a bad thing: it can get us more business at the end of the day.""

      Your point is obvious - piracy doesn't make you money. On the other hand, piracy can lead to a growing customer base. The point Hed is making is more that suing customers is more likely to lead to reducing your customer base rather than growing it. This is perhaps particularly applicable when it comes to small games like Angry Birds where there is money to be made off of merchandising.

      In Rovio's case, as you seem to inadvertently point out, Rovio makes money both on the sale of the game and on the generated advertising revenue. If people pirate the game, they still make the advertising revenue.

      Wrapped up in this is the idea that Rovio's business model doesn't just depend on game sales, but also on advertising revenue and merchandising. This should be obvious as Angry Birds is free on Android anyway.

      I think what they recognize is that for their particular product, there is a large portion of users who would not pay for the game. The choice for them is play the game for free or don't play it at all - they might as well have these users playing the game and generating hype than going and playing some other game and making it popular instead.

    2. Re:Or your PR dept. (Rovio is lying) by blackraven14250 · · Score: 1

      Rovio put out a free version with Ads for iOS, and don't even have a paid, ad-free version on Android.

    3. Re:Or your PR dept. (Rovio is lying) by Ouchie · · Score: 1

      The basic premis is to not treat the user as simply a revenue source to be squeezed. Rather treat them as a fan, one who is willing to pay within their budget for your product. When you try to squeeze more money out of them than they can afford they will look for a way to get your product cheaper through illegal means if necessary. Provide your product cheaply at a price point that is fair to your fan and they will gladly pay it.

      Supporting evidence: Louis CK

      --
      "Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most." ~Ozzy Osborne
    4. Re:Or your PR dept. (Rovio is lying) by Luckyo · · Score: 4, Informative

      I find that their POV is rather similar to that of microsoft. "We don't like piracy, but if you're going to pirate, we prefer you pirate our stuff then that of our competitors, because we will still make money on publicity, adaptation numbers and so on".

    5. Re:Or your PR dept. (Rovio is lying) by eineerg · · Score: 3, Insightful

      And a and supported free version on android as well. Instead of fighting the market they're catering to it.
      strange how that's working out for them

    6. Re:Or your PR dept. (Rovio is lying) by brit74 · · Score: 1

      ""Hed explained that Rovio sees it as "futile" to pursue pirates through the courts, except in cases where it feels the products they are selling are harmful to the Angry Birds brand, or ripping off its fans."" and " When that's not the case, Rovio sees it as a way to attract more fans, even if it is not making money from the products. "Piracy may not be a bad thing: it can get us more business at the end of the day.""

      Except that in the XDA case, what they're doing is removing advertising and "optimizing the app for better performance". Removing advertising is not "harmful to the Angry Birds brand" and it's not "ripping off its fans".

    7. Re:Or your PR dept. (Rovio is lying) by s73v3r · · Score: 1

      Ummm, no? Check the Amazon app store. There are paid, ad-free versions of Angry Birds there.

    8. Re:Or your PR dept. (Rovio is lying) by s73v3r · · Score: 1

      It's still a dick thing to do.

    9. Re:Or your PR dept. (Rovio is lying) by esocid · · Score: 2

      Your entire comment is based on a false premise. Where did Rovio say that they don't pursue the removal of copies of their game not distributed through their channels? They didn't take anyone to court, they asked xda to remove the apks in question. It's not a dichotomy between turning a blind eye and suing consumers. They acknowledged that piracy got their name out, and instead of taking the MAFIAA route, they take the route of not alienating and punishing their consumers.

      --
      Absolute power corrupts absolutely. indymedia
    10. Re:Or your PR dept. (Rovio is lying) by Cederic · · Score: 1

      Yes they do. More than one - Seasons and Rio are both available ad-free for a mere $0.99 each.

    11. Re:Or your PR dept. (Rovio is lying) by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      That's as presumptuous BS as the RIAA saying they lose 100 trillion to piracy.

      Well, while $100T is patently absurd, they do lose money because of piracy -- not because of their work being pirated, but because of their competetion, the indies, being pirated.

      The RIAA has radio, TV, and movies. They don't need P2P. Their competetion, the indies, rely on P2P and other forms of sharing -- "word of mouth" is all they have. If you spend twenty bucks on four indie CDs, that's twenty bucks you no longer have for that Metallica CD.

      Anyone who says it's free PR is either deluding themselves or an idiot. Was some piracy good for their bottom line? Sure, probably. But they put the kibosh on it when it stopped being PR, and started cutting into ad sales.

      Well, a lot of folks think Doctorow is an idiot, but he credits giving his work away for free on boingboing and encouraging fans to share it for the reason he's a best selling author. "Nobody ever went broke from piracy, but many artists have starved from obscurity."

      If there was no such thing as radio, the RIAA would have embraced P2P. However, it helps the competetion, which they feel they must crush at all costs. Not unlike MS's hatred for Linux.

    12. Re:Or your PR dept. (Rovio is lying) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ah, but here's the thing.

      Notice that it said "Link down as requested by developers"? Notice the REQUEST bit. They asked nicely. Considering most of the people concerned with rooting / ROMs are also focused on privacy / permission creep and generally wanting to "stick it to the man", I don't think "request" would have been the word of choice if they had even a hint of a lawyer or threats involved.

      There's a big difference between asking nicely and threatening legal action.

      There's also a big difference between saying "piracy isn't necessarily bad for us" and letting it run rampant out of control.

  56. Re:I really wanted to watch Van Helsing the other by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This.

    GP is clearly just a cheapskate who somehow believes he should set his own price for things. Nothing to see here move a long, oh wait the slashtards modded it +5...

  57. correction by picoboy · · Score: 2

    "We took something from the music industry, which was to stop treating the customers as users, and start treating them as fans."

    Here, I'll fix that for him...

    "We took something from the INDIE music industry, which was to stop treating the customers as users, and start treating them as fans."

  58. And... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...if someone can pirate your goods, sell them to your fans directly, you gain fans, someone else gets money off your work. At least someone made a profit, right? Sorta like buying a movie off the street in China....

  59. Loved the pirated game, bought the pirated shirts! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I was so happy with my pirated copy of the "full" version of Angry Birds that I bought pirated Angry Birds toys while in China and some Angry Birds t-shirts at a flea market in the USA.

  60. He's 100% right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    My girlfriend and I have both have jailbroken iPhones and both use Installous, so naturally neither of us have ever paid for any version of Angry Birds. That being said, I have easily spend over $100 on officially licensed Angry birds crap for her from t-shirts to refrigerator magnets to stuffed animals that make noise. None of that ever happens if we don't pirate the game and she doesn't become borderline obsessed with it.

  61. This article is misleading by StoutFiles · · Score: 1

    He should be crediting his piracy of Castle Crashers.

  62. Re:I really wanted to watch Van Helsing the other by Pope · · Score: 1

    So go to the store and rent it, problem solved.

    --
    It doesn't mean much now, it's built for the future.
  63. Order of the Stick by sckeener · · Score: 3, Informative

    People seem to be focused on the piracy aspect of the story and I focused on the 'fan' aspect. Something that is going on with Kickstarter as of this week is Order of the Stick, a free online web comic, that has blown away its goals multiple times in the first week of the kickstarter. That is the power of fans. The product is free on the web, but yet fans are tripping over themselves to get out of print material back in stores.

    --
    "Only one thing, is impossible for god: to find any sense in any copyright law on the planet." Mark Twain
    1. Re:Order of the Stick by MobileTatsu-NJG · · Score: 1

      A simpler version of what you said is that as long as people are having fun, they'll part with their money. History has proven this over and and over again but the *AA seems to think that making it so music CDs cannot play will increase sales.

      --

      "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

  64. Suing company is the 21th century business model by bigbangnet · · Score: 1
    Quote from Mikael hed: "Hed explained that Rovio sees it as "futile" to pursue pirates through the courts, except in cases where it feels the products they are selling are harmful to the Angry Birds brand, or ripping off its fans".

    Who's gonna sue Mikeal for copying then ? I'm sure someone will sue him eventually...right ?

  65. i still laugh... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...when people call Angry Birds a 'game'

    I prefer to call any 'game' played through a phone as a 'trivial distraction'

  66. It worked for Microsoft by cwgmpls · · Score: 1

    Piracy is exactly why Microsoft became the dominant PC operating system in the world. When I was in college, none of the students were buying Microsoft Windows. We were all piecing together generic beige boxes and copying someone else's Windows floppy disks to install in on our computers. Heck, there were even some people selling computer parts out of their garage that would throw in pirated Windows disks for free. If memory serves me, this was possible to do throughout the 90's. Pirating Windows onto cheap hardware was the only computer most students could afford. Many software developers and business people today got into Microsoft software precisely for this reason. Rovio is smart to learn from Microsoft's example.

  67. Rovio CEO Hypocracy? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I find the hypocritical statements made by Rovio's CEO very disturbing. I have actually read Rovio cease and desist orders that they have sent to my clients for operating nothing more than a fan site.

    On one hand, the CEO claims it is a good thing and they can learn from the music industry, on the other hand, their dogs of war, aka lawyers are hunting down anyone who appears to remotely infringe on their intellectual property.

    Honestly, I would not believe in a heartbeat that Rovio's intentions or any more noble than that of SCO Unix. I am sorry, Rovio's CEO is nothing more than a wolf in sheep's clothing.

     

  68. Re:In before... by cheekyjohnson · · Score: 1

    Shut up and give me the money you owe me. I saw you--you walked into a competitor's store and bought something! If you would've walked into my store and bought something, I would've had more money! That's clearly a lost sale (which is a loss of potential gain).

    Why do you enjoy stealing things that I didn't have to begin with from me?

    --
    Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
  69. I went the other route. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I don't listen to Metallica nor do I want to, But I downloaded as much of their shit as I could find.

  70. Re:I really wanted to watch Van Helsing the other by Provocateur · · Score: 1

    only keeping my wild life documentary

      You can say 'pr0n' here; come on, you're among friends.

    --
    WARNING: Smartphones have side effects--most of them undocumented.
  71. Piracy usually doesn't cripple top tier products by LordZardoz · · Score: 1

    Angry Birds is a great game, and the iOS DRM that ties phones to accounts and prevents jailbreaking combined with a very low purchase cost make it easier to purchase the game than pirate it for the vast majority of users. Given the vast amount of Angry Birds merchandising, the viewpoint of Mikael Hed is not too surprising.

    But for digital products that are just not that good, piracy can destroy the profit margin. The experience of Rovio with Angry Birds does not necessarily apply to all digital products.

    END COMMUNICATION

  72. Just by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ... fix the high scores. 9 quintillion points is impossible.

  73. Re:In before... by chrismcb · · Score: 1

    I'm going to go ahead and abandon modding on this article, because I can't believe no one has called you on this crap.

    On what crap? The fact that people are STEALING software helps with advertising? YOU don't get to decide how the company runs its business. You can't say "ohhh this will help advertising, so I'll steal it."

  74. Re:I really wanted to watch Van Helsing the other by chrismcb · · Score: 1

    Is it me that's broken, or their business model?

    There is nothing wrong with the system.
    You decided that the movie was worth £1. You couldn't find it at that price point. So your option is NOT watch it, or pay the extra money. You've chosen not to pay the extra money. So then your option is not watch it. You could write to the distributor and complain. But it doesn't mean you can steal it (I'm not saying you did)

  75. Re:Piracy usually doesn't cripple top tier product by Gripp · · Score: 1

    you sire, are just plain wrong. In piracy most "theft" is of stuff that the "thief" wouldn't have paid for regardless. Like the entire anthology of pearl jam - VERY FEW would ever buy all of that. They would maybe buy a couple of singles, or maybe a disc. So the loss is no where near as great as the guys calculating it understand. However, the consequence is that the name of what they "stole" becomes better known. Other people hear them listening to this music and *some* of them will want to buy. It is free marketing - and very good marketing too.

    Autocad has always been my proof-of-concept in this argument. Prior to 2004 Autocad had plenty of well positioned competitors. There was really no specific reason for them to become the industry leaders; except for piracy. People wanted to learn cad, or just play with "some new software." Nearly NONE of those people would have gone out and chunked $5,000 at those endeavors. But, because Autocad was the easiest to pirate, it become the CAD software that everyone had some experience with. So companies were smart to buy autocad, since all of their potential hires had already trained themselves for free. And it become the name that people associated with the word "drafting" at-large; enabling Autodesk to becomes the graphics powerhouse they are today.

    The pure point of the matter is that these industries need to learn how to harness the way things work rather than wasting all of *our* time and money trying to fight it.