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FOIA Request Shows Which Printer Companies Cooperated With US Government

New submitter Dave_Minsky writes "The U.S. Secret Service responded to a FOIA request on Monday that reveals the names of the printer companies that cooperate with the government to identify and track potential counterfeiters. The Electronic Frontier Foundation revealed in 2005 that the U.S. Secret Service was in cahoots with selected laser printer companies to identify and track printer paper using tiny microscopic dots encoded into the paper. The tiny, yellow dots — less than a millimeter each — are printed in a pattern over each page and are only viewable with a blue light, a magnifying glass or a microscope. The pattern of dots is encodes identifiable information including printer model, and time and location where the document was printed." Easy enough to avoid government dots; just don't buy printers from Canon, Brother, Casio, HP, Konica, Minolta, Mita, Ricoh, Sharp, or Xerox.

355 comments

  1. lol by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Who would want to counterfeit american money? If you're gonna stick your neck out at least counterfeit something of value

    1. Re:lol by wwbbs · · Score: 1

      Like American Coinage! Have you seen the prices of some of the common coins. Remember an pre 1980 nickel is worth about 8 cents currently just in Ni

    2. Re:lol by RoccamOccam · · Score: 1

      Have there been any reports of people taking advantage of this discrepancy? It seems like a potential 60% profit would make it worthwhile to pursue.

    3. Re:lol by houstonbofh · · Score: 0

      It's not entirely worthless - it makes good kindling, and bad toilet paper. (or very bad kindling if you use it as toilet paper first)

      It is not even the best for that. http://web.orange.co.uk/article/quirkies/Hungarays_needy_given_money_to_burn

    4. Re:lol by NormalVisual · · Score: 1

      On the surface it would seem so, but older coins that would be worth more are harder and harder to find as time goes on, and the numismatic value of the coins may very well be worth more than the scrap value. Plus, while many scrap metal recyclers have no scruples and accept anything you bring in, they may not be willing to face the wrath of the government when it comes to light that they're destroying currency for a profit. :-)

      --
      Please stand clear of the doors, por favor mantenganse alejado de las puertas
    5. Re:lol by ArsenneLupin · · Score: 1, Informative

      It's not entirely worthless - it makes good kindling, and bad toilet paper. (or very bad kindling if you use it as toilet paper first)

      You have to let it dry first, obviously.

      Case in point: many rural populations use dried animal dung as fuel

    6. Re:lol by timeOday · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Who would want to counterfeit american money?

      I've lost track, is Glenn Beck still predicting hyperinflation any day now?

      Actually I shouldn't be too glib about inflation because I am somewhat worried about it. But so far the extra dollars created by the Fed have mainly just offset the dollars that vanished when Wall Street companies pulled back on extending loans back and forth to each other. True or false?

    7. Re:lol by mrclisdue · · Score: 1, Interesting

      If we're going to test burnable human waste, why not use the whole of a politician, rather than just his excrement?

      cheers,

    8. Re:lol by element-o.p. · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I haven't seen any actual reports on inflation, but I have been paying attention to prices, and I'd say it's definitely happening. Just a few examples, off the top of my head: I got my pilot's license in 1991 -- the same Cessna 152 I learned to fly in at $36 per hour now costs $120 per hour to rent; around that same time, I used to fill up my car for ~$1/gallon but it's $3.50 per gallon now; I'm into archery, and the arrows I used to buy for $4 each now cost more like $10 each; and houses in my city have gone from ~$150K to ~$300K. That's 200-300% inflation in 20 years. I know, I know, "anecdote, data, etc." but just about the only thing I can think of where prices have decreased is technology -- computers, hard drives, network gear, cell phones, etc.

      --
      MCSE? No, sir...I don't do Windows. Yes, I am an idealist. What's your point?
    9. Re:lol by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

      What's the difference?

    10. Re:lol by Eponymous+Coward · · Score: 1

      Most food is dirt cheap. Some (like coffee) have gone up quite a bit. Clothing is either less expensive or the same price as it was 10 years ago. A lot of building products (wood, brick, etc...) rise and fall, but don't really change that much over time. Appliances and furniture are also pretty static. A $500 bicycle from 2011 is far better than a $500 bicycle from 1991.

    11. Re:lol by istartedi · · Score: 1

      Furniture is FREE here, if you don't mind a couch that you probably want to reupholster, fiberboard shelving, etc. Every once in a while a nice solid wood piece appears; but it's usually too heavy to move without a truck. That's usually why it's free. I had a desk like that I saved from the dumpster and brought home from school. If I were not already renting a truck I would have left it. When I got tired of it, we gave it for free to... a guy with a truck.

      --
      For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
    12. Re:lol by HornWumpus · · Score: 4, Interesting

      China has their currency pegged to ours (other countries too, but China is the one that matters).

      That means we sort of share a monetary policy. We print money, it causes inflation in China as they are forced to also print money to maintain the peg.

      If China lets their currency float then we see the pent up inflation hit us as all their products double in price (and their bank reserves of US bonds halve in value). Shock to both economies. Double plus ungood.

      But the peg needs to move faster. Eventual float.

      My only question: Where is the arbitrage opportunity?

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    13. Re:lol by Grishnakh · · Score: 5, Informative

      That "dirt cheap" food is much shittier than it was 20+ years ago. On top of that, portion sizes have shrunk: take a look at various canned foods, and compare them with cans from 20 years ago; the volumes have shrunk slightly to offset the inflation.

      Clothing is only cheaper because they've moved all the production to southeast Asia, and of course tech products are cheaper for two reasons: 1) they're all made in China now, and 2) newer technological processes are cheaper and more efficient than the old ones. Also 3) volumes are likely higher for many tech items, and greater volumes means greater economies of scale; not as many people had PCs or laptop 20 years ago.

      With furniture, you have to be careful because there's a lot of shitty cardboard furniture out there (no shit, it's just paper fibers pressed together with a fake wood-grain laminate glued on top); for a valid comparison, you need to look at the prices of solid wood high-quality furniture (something like Thomasville), from both then and now. Even that's a little suspect because on a lot of the factory furniture, they're using more veneers on even the hardwood furniture: instead of solid cherry, they make it out of a cheap hardwood like birch and use cherry veneers. Still far better than cardboard shit, but it's not the same as non-veneered furniture as veneers can come off, plus if you ever want to refinish the piece, there's only so much you can do with a veneer, whereas with solid wood you can sand through even deep scratches and refinish without damaging it.

      Bottom line: be very careful in how you make comparisons in the prices of items.

    14. Re:lol by rrohbeck · · Score: 2

      Exactly. The macro trend is deflationary and trillions more will be deleveraged through bankruptcies and foreclosures, especially if/when more shit in Europe hits the fan or the economy tanks again. Significantly lower money volume equals deflation. The inflationary policies of the Fed are designed to offset that.

    15. Re:lol by dryeo · · Score: 1

      They were talking about the latest inflation report (Canadian but should be similar) on the radio yesterday. I didn't take notes but the gist of it was inflation was about 2% but then they started listing things. Lots of food items like bread had gone up 8-10%. Gasoline was up quite a bit along with electricity and housing. Natural gas was actually down quite a bit. Basically it sounded like all the basic stuff that I pretty well need had gone up close to 10% while stuff that I can't afford anyways has been stable or gone down.

      --
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
    16. Re:lol by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Food "dirt cheap"? What the fuck are you talking about? Food inflation alone is running some 6% per year right now.

    17. Re:lol by StillAnonymous · · Score: 1

      This is exactly why the inflation reports from the government should be ignored. They game the numbers just like they do in the employment statistics so that they can continue to tell the public that they're doing a good job. The real numbers are depressing. Go compare U-3 to U-6 employment figures and when they changed from reporting one to the other. Also look up hedonics when it comes to inflation reports.

    18. Re:lol by mikael · · Score: 1

      I've noticed that with the boxed packets of food and washing powder. In the past, they would be filled to 1/2 inch to the top. Now they are 2/3rds full. Used to get packs of 10 slices of turkey. Now they are down to 5 slices and the same price. Same in at least three European countries.

      --
      Vintage computer adverts: http://www.vintageadbrowser.com/computers-and-software-ads
    19. Re:lol by GumphMaster · · Score: 2

      That's not anecdotal, it's concrete data, but not a convincing illustration. 20 years to increase from $36 to $120/hr. That's a factor of 3.33 over 20 years or an annual growth rate of 6%. Hardly hyperinflation.

      Looking at averaged petrol prices in Brisbane, Australia: Dec 1980 $0.306 per litre to Dec 2006 $1.111 per litre (http://www.aaa.asn.au/documents/stats/70.xls). Factor of 3.63 over 26 years or an annual rate of 4.96%. That is hardly abnormal inflation. Yesterday that same fuel was 1.519 per litre, a 6.25% percent rate over the past five years but the volatility of fuel price here is a big factor: that fuel was 1.419 last weekend, and is strongly cyclical.

      --
      Patent litigation: A doctrine of Mutually Assured Destruction... in which everyone seems willing to push the button
    20. Re:lol by Kookus · · Score: 1

      Network gear? Netgear/Linksys/Cisco haven't decreased their prices! Go into Best Buy and you can't walk out with a network switch under 50 bucks...What a rip off.

    21. Re:lol by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      That's 200-300% inflation in 20 years.

      For comparison, that's equivalent to 3.5-5.6% inflation per year.

    22. Re:lol by fatphil · · Score: 1, Troll

      The politician, while kept alive, can be an almost endless source of hot air, possible more than any individual fire could supply.

      --
      Also FatPhil on SoylentNews, id 863
    23. Re:lol by element-o.p. · · Score: 1

      Okay, food and clothing...I'd probably have to concede that point. I haven't noticed prices rising that much. That doesn't mean they haven't, just that I haven't noticed it, so since I can't argue that point, I'll concede. Ditto for building supplies. Regarding appliances and furniture...I'd say they've increased, but not by the same factor that I gave in my examples above.

      Bicycles, however...gotta disagree with you there. I bought a Diamondback Outlook less than ten years ago for under $300. It's not a high-end bike like a Cannondale or Giant or K2, but for an affordable consumer bike, it's pretty decent. Last summer I went to look for a similar bike for my wife, and even though I went to the same store, there was nothing anywhere near the quality of my Diamondback for under $400, and even at that price, the pickings were a bit sketchy. Just to be clear, there wasn't anything at that price point at any other stores either, unless you wanted to buy the Wal-Mart no-name special. Almost twenty years ago, you could pick up a high-end recreational bike for around the same price (about $500) as the decent quality consumer bikes I was looking for last summer. There's also been a pretty steep price increase on motor vehicles lately. A 2009 V-Strom listed just north of $7000 when I was shopping for one; the 2012 model books at $8299. In 2007, a Nissan Frontier SE King Cab ran $21K in my neck of the woods; when I last had my vehicle serviced, a comparable model was about $10K more.

      --
      MCSE? No, sir...I don't do Windows. Yes, I am an idealist. What's your point?
    24. Re:lol by element-o.p. · · Score: 1

      20 years to increase from $36 to $120/hr. That's a factor of 3.33 over 20 years or an annual growth rate of 6%.

      That's true. However, I can compress that time span a bit, though (should have thought of that earlier). I was a flight instructor here in town in 1999. We were the most expensive place in town, at $50/hour, for that same airplane. Everyone else in town was about $40 per hour. I had a falling out with my boss, got fired, and went into IT. About a year and a half later, I went to another flight school in town to get current again, and a 152 was renting for $85 an hour, roughly doubling in price from July of '99 to January of '01. It's climbed incrementally from there to the current $120/hour rate.

      --
      MCSE? No, sir...I don't do Windows. Yes, I am an idealist. What's your point?
    25. Re:lol by jep305 · · Score: 1

      "Intents and purposes". What the heck would an "intensive purpose" be, anyway?

      --
      In Reason We Trust
    26. Re:lol by Eponymous+Coward · · Score: 1

      This bike has carbon fiber forks and rear triangle. Ten years ago, you couldn't touch that for $1,000.

      In fact, all of the $500 Walmart bikes are pretty impressive. I bought my bike online (BikesDirect.com) and it's an unbelievably good bike for the money. If you are willing to do eBay, there are lots of full fiber frames between $400 and $1,000. If you work at it a bit, you can definitely get a killer bicycle for much less than you could even a few years ago.

    27. Re:lol by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I haven't seen any actual reports on inflation, but I have been paying attention to prices, and I'd say it's definitely happening. Just a few examples, off the top of my head: I got my pilot's license in 1991 -- the same Cessna 152 I learned to fly in at $36 per hour now costs $120 per hour to rent; around that same time, I used to fill up my car for ~$1/gallon but it's $3.50 per gallon now; I'm into archery, and the arrows I used to buy for $4 each now cost more like $10 each; and houses in my city have gone from ~$150K to ~$300K. That's 200-300% inflation in 20 years. I know, I know, "anecdote, data, etc." but just about the only thing I can think of where prices have decreased is technology -- computers, hard drives, network gear, cell phones, etc.

      COME TO ENLAND WE LAUGH AT YOUR PITIFUL 41PENCE PER LITRE PRICES. ($3.50 per gallon = £0.41 per litre)

      TRY (wheres the capital numbers) $9.40 per gallon - THEN COMPLAIN ($9.40 = £1.30 per litre)

    28. Re:lol by lupinstel · · Score: 1

      Pretty ironic isn't it. I literally die when I read these morans mispellings and terrible grammer. Good luck to them being so uneducated and trying to hold a job in this doggy dog world.

      --
      Don't blame me, I voted for Cthulhu.
    29. Re:lol by jep305 · · Score: 1

      bwaahaahaaa!

      NICE.

      --
      In Reason We Trust
    30. Re:lol by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      if i were going to counterfeit some money with one of these printers, i would definitely want to keep the dots, and maybe add a few more ;-)

  2. What's the problem? by YttriumOxide · · Score: 5, Informative

    Firstly, what's the big deal with the document having these microdots? They identify the machine by serial number, and the time (assuming the machine's clock is set correctly - in my experience, many aren't). The "location" isn't really identified since these devices have no way of knowing their location, so what's being described here isn't actually possible.

    If you're going to be printing stuff you don't want identified, don't use one of these machines, sure. But for day to day normal printing, it's not exactly going to affect you.

    I'm aware this argument sounds a lot like "if you've got nothing to hide, you don't need security" or whatever, but really it's not. If you DO want to hide that the job was printed on your device, change the serial number (on most devices, this just requires knowing how to get to the "Service Mode" of the machine - which, while no company will tell you how, is trivially easy to find on Google).

    It's not like we actively keep it a secret that our machines do this.

    And just as a minor nitpick: "Konica" and "Minolta" haven't been two separate companies in a long time. (Full disclosure: I work for Konica Minolta)

    --
    My book about LSD and Self-Discovery
    Also on facebook as: DroppingAcidDaleBewan
    1. Re:What's the problem? by roman_mir · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The problem is government cooperation, this automatically raises a flag - this company will not have a problem cooperating with the government.

      So, what do these companies have to hide? What are they getting from government that they agreed to do this?

    2. Re:What's the problem? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      If you've got nothing to hide, but then suddenly stop being trackable, that implies that now you do now have something to hide.

      Why not guilty until proven innocent, instead? Oh wait, that ended when Reagan instituted drug testing.

    3. Re:What's the problem? by bWareiWare.co.uk · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The are LOTS of flaws in your agument. Prehaps the easiest to explain is what happens if the is a revolution in your country and previous 'free-expression' suddenly lands you in jail?

       

    4. Re:What's the problem? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Problem 1: It was *not* pointed out to the customers that this was happening, it was only revealed by the EFF and then not denied. It would've been ridiculous to deny it.
      Problem 2: Still if I buy such a printer it is neither stated on the packaging nor in the manuel that the printer prints this information. This is not what I would call a transparent process.
      Problem 3: If I send a job to a printer I expect the printer to print my job, not anything else!
      Problem 4: Printing these dots consumes my ink.
      Problem 5: There is no possibility to turn this "feature" off. Why? Who is your customer?

      Next thing you tell us that this is a feature to improve customer satisfaction.

    5. Re:What's the problem? by YttriumOxide · · Score: 3, Interesting

      The are LOTS of flaws in your agument. Prehaps the easiest to explain is what happens if the is a revolution in your country and previous 'free-expression' suddenly lands you in jail?

      Let's imagine I have a home printer that prints these microdots. I use it for printing birthday cards, kids' homework, letters to my bank, and other miscellany. If there's a revolution and any of these things become illegal, I've got bigger problems than being tracked by my printer.

      As a further note, right now there's no way to trace that serial number to me. Generally speaking, tracing a serial number will get it to the store that sold it to me and not much further. For larger office devices (the stuff I work with in my day job) there's no way a home user would have it, but we could track it to the end user (customer) in theory. That however would only give us the company, not the individual user (unless that company themselves had a tracking system for their users, and then how is that OUR fault?)

      Yeh, I'd prefer it if these microdots didn't exist, but I've yet to see a convincing argument of their actual danger.

      --
      My book about LSD and Self-Discovery
      Also on facebook as: DroppingAcidDaleBewan
    6. Re:What's the problem? by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 1

      The "location" isn't really identified since these devices have no way of knowing their location, so what's being described here isn't actually possible.

      Right, because nobody sends in those "Product Registration Cards" or does online registration when installing the print drivers.

      --
      My God, it's Full of Source!
      OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
    7. Re:What's the problem? by grub · · Score: 2

      It's trivial to geolocate with IP and most printers are networked these days. Changing the serial doesn't mean the "real" burned in one isn't printed as well.

      Seriously, what benefit is there to the consumer for this behaviour? None. Stop being an apologist for your employer.

      --
      Trolling is a art,
    8. Re:What's the problem? by Richard_at_work · · Score: 1

      If such a revolution were to happen, I highly doubt the perpetrators are going to wait to build a body of evidence against you before they stick you in the deepest dungeon they can find.

      It didn't take much for the "victors" in the Libyan conflict to start emptying towns of opposition tribes members after all... just some UN air and logistics support.

    9. Re:What's the problem? by TapeCutter · · Score: 1

      Why not guilty until proven innocent, instead?

      Indeed, it's unfair to try an innocent man! - Apologies to Q from Star Trek.

      --
      And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
    10. Re:What's the problem? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Firstly, what's the big deal with the document having these microdots?

      1. Why is the U.S. government requireing/paying equipment manufacturers to make my documents (which should be of no importance to them, especially in a different country) trackable only by their agencies?
      2. Why is this not documented in the manual of the product?
      3. If it is a feature, why can't I use it to my benefit?
      4. If they have nothing to hide, why are they hiding it?

      At the end of the day, it's a government (possibly not one you are ruled by) creating a tracking system to track everyone, regardless of guilt. This should not be allowed. Will you still be asking that question when the government jumps in bed with Big Pharm so people given innoculations with RFID chips and the streets lined with readers to track people "in case they commit a crime" down the street? They are 3/4 the way there already with cameras. The possibility of tin foil hat theories becoming reality seems to be increasing every day....

    11. Re:What's the problem? by YttriumOxide · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It's trivial to geolocate with IP and most printers are networked these days.

      True, but most aren't given public IP addresses (any many aren't even given access out the firewall to try and figure out the public address)

      Changing the serial doesn't mean the "real" burned in one isn't printed as well.

      Note the bit where I said I work for Konica Minolta... I know what I'm talking about here. The serial number written in the microdots is ABSOLUTELY the one that is programmed in electronically by the service-person and NOT some kind of hard-coded value.

      Seriously, what benefit is there to the consumer for this behaviour? None.

      You'll get no argument from me there. I never said I was in favour of these microdots, just that they're REALLY ineffective and therefore you can generally happily ignore the attempted invasion of privacy and it's no big deal.

      Stop being an apologist for your employer.

      My employer (right up to senior management at our parent company) knows when I agree with them and when I disagree. I'm secure enough in my position there that I know I don't need to kiss arse to keep my job.

      --
      My book about LSD and Self-Discovery
      Also on facebook as: DroppingAcidDaleBewan
    12. Re:What's the problem? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      First off, TFA never mentioned location, so submitter fail. Second, do you honestly believe it is "impossible" for a printer to ever figure out its approximate or exact location? Network printers used in homes or small offices can easily use a web service to get their location down to a portion of a city block using their public IP address. All printers can sport a hidden GPS chip, again, perfect for home and any size office near a window. Finally, barring all that the installed print driver can use the PC sending the print job to do the heavy lifting.

      Again, it was never actually said, but it's also not impossible by a long shot.

    13. Re:What's the problem? by chichilalescu · · Score: 5, Informative

      you know, my aunt had a typing machine. in Romania, before the fall of communism. and everybody remembers that, in those days, you had to give the "fingerprint" of any typing machine to the authorities.
      as you might know, there are these tiny problems with each letter, and they can be traced back to the machine. so, in practice, the authorities could find out if a paper had been typed by your machine or not.
      in my experience, if you want a warranty for your printer, the store will need the serial number of your device. and if you pay with a credit card, they can link your contact information to the device. and if you try to google the way to change the serial number, you probably end up an watchlist of some sort.
      personally, I don't know if it's a good situation when it's impossible to be anonymous. but I am certain they should tell you about it when it does happen.
      your argument is that it doesn't affect normal users, and that you don't actively keep it a secret. well, you do keep it a secret, because a FOIA request had to be made to find it out. and it doesn't matter if it affects normal users or not, as long as they don't know.

      --
      new sig
    14. Re:What's the problem? by Mabhatter · · Score: 3, Informative

      This was published years ago. Probably on Slasdot. Add to that the "yellow circles" patterns that are in various currencies (like the pattern of "20s" on a $20 bill) and they have been working with copier/scanner/software makers to flag those items as non-copy able as well. ... This was years ago...

      This has been a problem for years... I remember 15 years ah at my first real job, somebody was caught putting copied $1 bills into the vending machines. They had to do something eventually.

      If you need to print objectionable content, be sure to destroy or hide the printers you used kids!

    15. Re:What's the problem? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Oh? Did you buy that printer with a credit card? Video surveilence at time of purchase could be useful if not....

      There are plenty of methods of tracking a purchased item to a person. The convincing argument for me is this - The reason given for doing this was to stop counterfits. However printing quality out of those printers is no where near enough to fool idiots down the street. What other reason is there then, other that to track the local people?

    16. Re:What's the problem? by Megane · · Score: 5, Insightful

      As a further note, right now there's no way to trace that serial number to me.

      They can identify that two pages both came from the same printer. Which includes sneaking into your house when you're not around and printing a test page. Or not sneaking in, if they already suspect you enough.

      --
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    17. Re:What's the problem? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful


      Also: money counterfeiters have no right to exist.

      It' s not all about the counterfeiters. Everything printed on those printers ties the sheets of paper back to that unit.

      This behaviour in itself doesn't prove a person did anything but will add to the weight of evidence against them. Write a manifesto in the woods? Anonymous whistle-blower documents? White power propaganda? Love poems? Birthday cards for your kids?

      It doesn't matter, there is the potential to identify the source of literally billions (trillions?) of pieces of paper all to catch a few bad guys.

      It's a broad net.

    18. Re:What's the problem? by hairyfeet · · Score: 1

      Because as we are seeing now with Syria or even here in the USA with PATRIOT and NDAA it really isn't a stretch for a government to become hostile to its own people. The ability to build grass roots support is one of the ways one can actually use the power of the people against the government but if they can simply track down the ones that are uppity and make them just go "poof"? lot harder to ever cause any change.

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    19. Re:What's the problem? by grub · · Score: 1

      OK, so you don't agree with them. That's good, you seemed to be coming across as a sock puppet for the company. Why these are a Good Thing.

      My concerns aren't just about domestic abuse. What if a person in, say Saudi Arabia, began writing things critical of the monarchy or religion? I know "What Ifs" are just speculation, but if this behaviour was indeed benign and of no use, they would likely have abandoned it years ago.

      --
      Trolling is a art,
    20. Re:What's the problem? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Right, because people who print counterfeit notes register their printers. Hmm, great logic you have there.
      I have nothing to hide yet I have never, ever, sent or lodged online one of those.

    21. Re:What's the problem? by Richard_at_work · · Score: 4, Informative

      They could do that anyway, every laser and inkjet printer has a unique signature in the way it prints, with the spacing of dots, dirt and unintended marks left on the paper - it's an inherent part of the character of each printer, but needs skill and time to interpret.

      I recall watching a UK police documentary about fraud over a decade ago, where they IDed the exact printer some fraudulent documents were printed on, proving their suspect was linked to the case. The evidence stood up in court too.

    22. Re:What's the problem? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The "location" isn't really identified since these devices have no way of knowing their location, so what's being described here isn't actually possible.

      That's just what they want you to think.

    23. Re:What's the problem? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Idiot. Sorry, but that is the only appropriate response.
      Nobody really cares about counterfeiters.
      What you are actually saying is that counterfeiters and others with a criminal intent will not be affected whereas everyone will no longer be anonymous when they print something.
      Don't you think it is a bit worrying that registering your printer with the manufacturer means that manufacturer can know whether something was printed by you? That a handlful of printer manufacturers together can probably identify the exact person who printed it for maybe 10% or so of everything printed?

    24. Re:What's the problem? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Mr Konica Minolta employee, is the article submitter being quite a dick when they say "less than a millimeter each"? A millimeter is not particularly small; while I'm sure the dots are less than a mm, it's about as good as saying they're smaller than the size of the page.

      Both links have been slashdotted, so I'm genuinely curious how small the dots are; surely not larger than 0.1 mm.

    25. Re:What's the problem? by AmberBlackCat · · Score: 1

      I just take issue with your claim that the printer has no time or location data. The printer is constantly connected to things that have time and location data.

    26. Re:What's the problem? by Gaygirlie · · Score: 1

      True, but most aren't given public IP addresses (any many aren't even given access out the firewall to try and figure out the public address)

      You're assuming the network admins are both competent and actually care. Neither of which are usually true. Everywhere where I've seen a networked printer it has always had fully public IP address and accessible from the Internet. The admins just don't bother to do anything about it.

      You'll get no argument from me there. I never said I was in favour of these microdots, just that they're REALLY ineffective and therefore you can generally happily ignore the attempted invasion of privacy and it's no big deal.

      I see where you're coming from, but I personally see even the attempt at such as a rather disgusting move. But as I said, that's just how I feel about it, I don't expect everyone to feel the same way.

      My employer (right up to senior management at our parent company) knows when I agree with them and when I disagree. I'm secure enough in my position there that I know I don't need to kiss arse to keep my job.

      Good for you tbh :) I myself would be loud and clear whenever I felt there was shortcomings on our products or the company did something questionable or stupid, and I wouldn't be afraid of criticising my superiors either as I value healthy criticism more than mindless butt kissing. Then again, I'm unemployed and would likely get fired rather quickly exactly because of that..( superiors do not like to hear criticism, they want to feel pampered! ) ;)

    27. Re:What's the problem? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      As a further note, right now there's no way to trace that serial number to me.

      They can identify that two pages both came from the same printer. Which includes sneaking into your house when you're not around and printing a test page. Or not sneaking in, if they already suspect you enough.

      I really really really would like to see someone try that and get out in one piece here not a hope in hell that would be real fun to watch An Englishman's home is his castle and i Enforce that to the Hilt and i do mean very seriously Enforce it

    28. Re:What's the problem? by DaveGod · · Score: 1

      Firstly, what's the big deal with the document having these microdots?

      If they're not significant then why are they there? Either they are of use to law enforcement and therefore of concern to citizens, or they aren't useful and they're a waste of our tax dollars.

      Sure it's possible the dots are useful to law enforcement for reasons that do not affect privacy, but the onus is on them to explain and demonstrate that.

    29. Re:What's the problem? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      They're wasting my ink, that's the problem!

    30. Re:What's the problem? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I work for a university and we've used this to find out who was printing politically "charged flyers". From our printers. we were able to identify which printed was used and when, and thus able to identify a single student. I'm not sure what became of him, but I know one of the guys from student-life wanted him expelled.

      Dont assume that this will only be used to find counterfeiters, because it already had been used for more.

    31. Re:What's the problem? by dtmos · · Score: 2

      Nobody said the microdots could only be used to stop counterfeiters. If that were true, this would be a non-issue. Modern digital copiers already have internal image-recognition software that refuses to copy something that resembles currency -- printers could too, and maybe already do, for all I know.

      The problem is that the dots appear on more than just images that resemble currency. They appear on all printed documents, including those describing political opinions that may differ with those currently in power (whenever and whoever they may be), descriptions of your wife and daughter's medical conditions, your personal investments, etc. Leaving one's name off of one's document no longer makes it anonymous -- intentionally or otherwise -- to someone who knows the secret.

      If you don't care about the microdots, I suggest that you don't print many of your political views. Saying unkind things about the EFF, for example, is trivial and even chic today, but neither of us knows how those views may be considered in the future. And don't do any favors for your friends -- anything you print for them would be traced back to you, not them.

      I note in passing that the microdots are substantially invisible to the unaided eye, and I am willing to bet that not one member of the public in a hundred -- possibly a thousand -- knows they are there. The EFF is publicizing their presence, so that all citizens will know. How is this undemocratic?

    32. Re:What's the problem? by Requiem18th · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The argument of their actual danger has ben explained to you already but I'll try again. The problems are availability, plausible deniability and finally, "red flaging" (I don't know the proper term, my apologies).

      It's the same argument for total encryption, if you encrypt only sensitive information you are making it very easy for an attacker to know what to look for. If the only encrypted files in your laptop are your credit card numbers and password stores, Again if the only email you encrypt is the most highly sensitive ones, and industrial spy who gains access to your email knows exactly where to look for trade secrets.

      This means that if you ever have a good reason to print something you don't want traced back to you, you'll have to get access to an special printer. Cracking down on religious or political dissidents, whistleblowers and "unconfortable" citizens becomes a matter of tracking down who has access to these special printers. That's the red flag.

      Sooner than later just having such a printer becomes proof of any crime, such as encrypting your harddrive and refusing to hand over the key is considered evidence of the crime by some authorities. If you want to have access to these printers when you need them you need to use them when you don't need them. That's your plausible deniability.

      And if they simply become ilegal, there is no availability.

      Let's drop the topic of revolutions and use a theme closer to home, whisthleblowing. So you are a lowly clerk in an oil company and happend uppon records proving corruption involving high profile politicians. So you take the files in a USB, print them at home and send them anonymously to an activist group.

      If your mail get's intercepted, you are fucked. If your employer's lawyers get them, you are fucked. If the police happens to "lose" them. You are fucked. Because thanks to cooperation between corporations and the state it's easy to trace you. The yellow dots link your copy to your printer, to the store and to your credit card number. And for all we know there is already a database out there that just links yellow dots to names and it only takes a few calls to know who leaked the incriminating data.

      And once they know you may as well move yourself to perpetual-unemployment-ville.

      --
      But... the future refused to change.
    33. Re:What's the problem? by errandum · · Score: 1

      Most recent prints have wireless connectivity. From there to a coarse location is not a stretch (and since some actually contact an outside server, they can even trace the IP back to you).

      Also, documents sometimes have that information themselves, and the printer can use that information to identify the creator.

      Not saying they do, just that if they want to know where you are, they can. Printers with modified firmware have even been used as points of entry by the government before, so it's not that far fetched that the seemingly innocuous device can gather lots of information about you.

    34. Re:What's the problem? by Cwix · · Score: 1

      Do me a favor.

      Go down to the guys in the driver dept, and hand out a few swift kicks to the balls.

      --
      You are entitled to your own opinions, not your own facts.
    35. Re:What's the problem? by newcastlejon · · Score: 2

      There's a significant difference, I think, between taking measures to prevent an act of crime as it occurs and taking actions that also affect legitimate uses.

      The fear (perhaps unjustified) is that in theory these dots could identify a person printing things that are not illegal in of themselves but are still inconvenient/undesirable to the authorities.

      --
      If God forks the Universe every time you roll a die, he'd better have a damned good memory.
    36. Re:What's the problem? by gaspyy · · Score: 5, Informative

      Yes, parent is correct. We were required by law to register any typewriter with the police. Failure to comply was a major offense, with prison time and if you were flagged as threat to the system you could end up in a forced labor camp (e.g. the infamous "Danube-Black Sea Canal"). Nasty memories and it's incredible how people don't learn from history.

    37. Re:What's the problem? by Dysproxia · · Score: 2

      As a further note, right now there's no way to trace that serial number to me.

      Unless you count the printer driver, driver installer or the network connected printer itself calling home for warranty related reasons, reporting at the very least the serial number and your IP address, and whatever other personal information you probably gave it willingly.

    38. Re:What's the problem? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      IMO, the microdots aren't an issue unless you're trying to print photography. In which case, yes the stupid dots get in the way. There are better ways of solving counterfeits with regular printers, and one of those is by switching to plastic (new canadian 100's are plastic.) The other is by not producing "worthless" money at all, and switching entirely to electronic payments. But unfortunately the US Debit/Credit system is caught in a quagmire of fees, so that's why a cashless society isn't possible there. Other countries, like Canada, have a separate Debit system (Interac http://www.interac.ca/merchants/fees.php ) charging less than VISA/MC/AMEX but is only adopted by payers who have no-fee accounts from credit unions. The Banks only let you have like two transactions per month and then start charging you. So it's more of a cheque replacement than a cashless payment.

      At any rate, paying with counterfeit money is stupid. If you're going to rip off someone with something you printed on your home printer, you rip off the vending machines, because they aren't sophisticated.

    39. Re:What's the problem? by YttriumOxide · · Score: 1

      OK, so you don't agree with them. That's good, you seemed to be coming across as a sock puppet for the company. Why these are a Good Thing.

      I definitely didn't intend to come across that way, but reading my original post from a neutral standpoint, I think you're right. I should be more careful with my wording in the future.

      My concerns aren't just about domestic abuse. What if a person in, say Saudi Arabia, began writing things critical of the monarchy or religion?

      I still stick by the concept that these people should be able to circumvent the problem fairly easily. And if they don't, well, yes - it will be used against them - and that is indeed a bad thing. I would contend that the bigger problem is that they live somewhere where they can get in trouble for writing criticisms of the monarchy or religion. It's not their fault, but they've got bigger concerns than the inconvenience of having to mask their prints in some way.

      I know "What Ifs" are just speculation, but if this behaviour was indeed benign and of no use, they would likely have abandoned it years ago.

      Sadly, that's just the bureaucracy of big companies. I would imagine the only reason we added the feature to begin with on our machines was that it was less hassle to do so than not to do so. I don't defend the person who made that decision, but I somewhat understand it. Getting rid of it would take active effort (remove the code that does so) whereas leaving it there requires no change. No change is easier than change.

      --
      My book about LSD and Self-Discovery
      Also on facebook as: DroppingAcidDaleBewan
    40. Re:What's the problem? by leonardluen · · Score: 1

      i think one of the major issues is that they can tell two separate pages came from the same printer. it isn't necessarily important that they ever have to actually find the particular printer if they find other, possibly non-objectionable content, on your person from that same printer.

    41. Re:What's the problem? by CrazyDuke · · Score: 1

      Challenge accepted...

      #1 I was not aware that only the technically adept were allowed to be whistle-blowers The people that are likely not to know how to get a document out digitally are the ones that will print the thing out..

      #2 Lets say you print out your tax forms on a printer registered to you in the Bahamas, but the form only lists your assets as being in Florida. Now you have an audit for using a branch office printer to print off your taxes. And, oh, hey look, the TSA does not have a record of you leaving and re-entering the country around that date! Suspicious...

      #3 The raging bitch queen and his/her shyster lawyer discovers that the printer that some of your statements and offers are printed on happens to be at a house occupied by a member of the opposite sex not related to you. Oh, shit!

      --
      Any sufficiently advanced influence is indistinguishable from control.
    42. Re:What's the problem? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Also: money counterfeiters have no right to exist.

      Are we talking about the Federal Reserve? Or Mossad?

    43. Re:What's the problem? by YttriumOxide · · Score: 2

      I just take issue with your claim that the printer has no time or location data. The printer is constantly connected to things that have time and location data.

      True, but the devices are simply not that smart to make use of it. Trust me, the firmware developers in the printer industry aren't exactly the best and brightest in the software development world. They use the time as determined by the machine. They use the serial number that is programmed in to them. There is no location data of any use (specifically, I can tell you that the "location" variable on Konica Minolta devices in Europe is "Europe" - hardly an accurate location statement)

      Note that when I talk about these firmware developers, I am referring to colleagues of mine. They're not "dumb", they're just a different kind of software person to the likes of myself and many here on slashdot. They have a different mindset and think about different kinds of things and different concerns than I would. I wouldn't be any good at their job (e.g. figuring out how to get the best user experience in a real-time OS controlling both the operation panel and the print processing) and they wouldn't be any good at mine (writing userland software for complex networked environments to interact with the devices (including keeping security on my side of the fence as a priority)).

      --
      My book about LSD and Self-Discovery
      Also on facebook as: DroppingAcidDaleBewan
    44. Re:What's the problem? by newcastlejon · · Score: 1

      Both links have been slashdotted, so I'm genuinely curious how small the dots are; surely not larger than 0.1 mm.

      They are indeed on the order of 100 microns.

      --
      If God forks the Universe every time you roll a die, he'd better have a damned good memory.
    45. Re:What's the problem? by newcastlejon · · Score: 2

      4. If they have nothing to hide, why are they hiding it?

      If people have nothing to hide, why are the government taking such a keen interest in them?

      --
      If God forks the Universe every time you roll a die, he'd better have a damned good memory.
    46. Re:What's the problem? by leonardluen · · Score: 2

      but changing the serial isn't enough, unless you do it after every print job. the problem with the serial is they can tell multiple sheets of paper came from the same printer. if you make a mistake and print out objectionable content, and then forget to change the serial and print out some non-objectionable material and are carrying that piece of paper around, they can then track you back to the objectionable content which has the same serial. even if that is not the same serial that originally shipped with the printer.

      also keep in mind that what some govt's (China for example) view as objectionable might be viewed as perfectly innocent by many people.

    47. Re:What's the problem? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1
    48. Re:What's the problem? by gbjbaanb · · Score: 2

      Once upon a time this was a problem - I'm thinking of Eastern Europe during the cold war, but back then they had limited access to things like typewriters and copiers, so when the stazi kicked your door in they could find that your typewriter wrote out the seditious pamphlets.

      Today there are more printers than you can think of - they're almost disposable as the companies try to make their profits from the ink. Many of these are connected to the internet and available online or in kiosks, so it should be a lot easier to hide your tracks.

      All that said though, some countries where they still have oppressive regimes (and I'm not thinking of America now) don't have the same level of access to this technology, so it's still a problem for them.

      Your company (and the American government) ought to understand this, and allow non-identifiable printers to be sold abroad, or at least have a means of printing banknotes that always have flaws without the personal identifiers.

    49. Re:What's the problem? by YttriumOxide · · Score: 4, Interesting

      And for all we know there is already a database out there that just links yellow dots to names and it only takes a few calls to know who leaked the incriminating data.

      If there was, the following conversation would not have taken place:

      • My phone rings...
      • Me: Hello, Yttrium Oxide* speaking (not my real name)
      • Person: Hi, this is Joe Bloggs* from Government Security Agency* (not real name or agency)
      • Person: Are you the person to talk to about determining who a device was sent to by its microdot pattern?
      • Me: Hmmm, sorry, not my area. You seem to have been transferred to the wrong department. I'll transfer you to the right person.

      That's only happened once, around 6 or 7 years ago. Same current employer, different country. It may be that such a database exists in the US for example, but I've never worked there so couldn't say. It definitely doesn't exist in Australia where I used to work otherwise they wouldn't have called asking that question.

      --
      My book about LSD and Self-Discovery
      Also on facebook as: DroppingAcidDaleBewan
    50. Re:What's the problem? by YttriumOxide · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Do me a favor.

      Go down to the guys in the driver dept, and hand out a few swift kicks to the balls.

      Oh, I would SO love to... Sadly, the main driver devs are sitting in Japan and our guys here in Europe only do customisations and localisation - they don't deserve the kick.

      On the plus side, if you're located in Europe and have a company (even just a one-person company) with a non-"freemail" email address, sign up (for free, but with NDA agreement) to our Developer Support Portal and you can get all our PDL (PJL, PCL, PS) specs to make your own driver. Wait a few months and there may be some even cooler stuff there for doing your own drivers much more easily (sorry, can't confirm that definitely right now).

      Any questions, post on the forums there and I'll answer as best I can! (or pay for a developer support contract and get guaranteed full technical answers to questions as well as a lot more cool resources)

      --
      My book about LSD and Self-Discovery
      Also on facebook as: DroppingAcidDaleBewan
    51. Re:What's the problem? by PopeRatzo · · Score: 5, Funny

      Me: Hello, Yttrium Oxide* speaking (not my real name)

      So you're not related to the Connecticut Oxides? When I was in college, I dated Strontium. I've had a nasty rash ever since.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    52. Re:What's the problem? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The problem is government cooperation, this automatically raises a flag - this company will not have a problem cooperating with the government.

      You make it sound like they had a choice.

      "Nice company you got here. Be a shame if we had to audit your records for the past twenty years. You're not on the terrorists' side, are you?"

    53. Re:What's the problem? by YttriumOxide · · Score: 1

      Your company (and the American government) ought to understand this, and allow non-identifiable printers to be sold abroad

      That would be nice, but a business is a business and why spend money when it doesn't benefit us directly (i.e. have one version for the US and one version for elsewhere)? Evil, yes, but that's business. (to clarify very clearly: No I do not agree with or condone this policy, but I'm a software dev, not a policy maker)

      or at least have a means of printing banknotes that always have flaws without the personal identifiers.

      That's already in. You can't copy or print any major world currency on the vast majority of colour devices out there. You'll get distorted images, or black squares, or whatever. (note: even attempting to do so is actually a crime in a lot of places, so don't try it unless you're willing to break the law even knowing that it won't work)

      --
      My book about LSD and Self-Discovery
      Also on facebook as: DroppingAcidDaleBewan
    54. Re:What's the problem? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      [[if I buy such a printer it is neither stated on the packaging nor in the manuel that the printer prints this information.]]

      Neither is is stated that it doesn't. It *may* be implied that it doesn't, but that wouldn't affect the suitability of the printer for its stated purpose.

    55. Re:What's the problem? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Simple: Because anybody who is human believes in privacy - something to hide - uses it regularly, and thus can't have nothing to hide - the govt, wanting to become nosier and nosier, tricks people into forgetting this. :D

    56. Re:What's the problem? by YttriumOxide · · Score: 3, Informative

      Mr Konica Minolta employee, is the article submitter being quite a dick when they say "less than a millimeter each"? A millimeter is not particularly small; while I'm sure the dots are less than a mm, it's about as good as saying they're smaller than the size of the page.

      Both links have been slashdotted, so I'm genuinely curious how small the dots are; surely not larger than 0.1 mm.

      Others have already answered, but you asked me, so I'll give the best answer I can. Yes, the others are correct that it's WAY smaller than a millimeter, since that'd be pretty pointless if they were that large. The exact size depends on the device in question due to the way that this is embedded at a "lower layer" than simply manipulating the image data coming in (it's done at the actual physical print layer), but it can be up to around a half a millimeter on really cruddy devices or as small as 0.05mm on really good devices. There is no standardised size.

      --
      My book about LSD and Self-Discovery
      Also on facebook as: DroppingAcidDaleBewan
    57. Re:What's the problem? by jamstar7 · · Score: 2

      They can identify that two pages both came from the same printer. Which includes sneaking into your house when you're not around and printing a test page. Or not sneaking in, if they already suspect you enough.

      I really really really would like to see someone try that and get out in one piece here not a hope in hell that would be real fun to watch An Englishman's home is his castle and i Enforce that to the Hilt and i do mean very seriously Enforce it

      Seems to me I've heard something or other saying that it's illegal to have most kinds of guns at home, and have to register shotguns and keep them at a shooting club or something? And isn't there a restriction on blade lengths of edged weaponry? What you gonna do, sicc your wife on them?

      --
      Understanding the scope of the problem is the first step on the path to true panic.
    58. Re:What's the problem? by jamstar7 · · Score: 1

      If such a revolution were to happen, I highly doubt the perpetrators are going to wait to build a body of evidence against you before they stick you in the deepest dungeon they can find.

      Only if you're high profile enough that a show trial would be worth the new People's Committee's time. The 'running dog lackeys' would probably just be stood against the wall and shot out of hand. Quicker, cheaper, and you don't have to assign guards to them. Plus, if you corral some locals to witness it, word of mouth travels fast: 'Don't fuck with the People's Committee!!'

      --
      Understanding the scope of the problem is the first step on the path to true panic.
    59. Re:What's the problem? by Nerdfest · · Score: 1

      I wonder if it would be possible to write a printer driver that generates lots of extra random dots of exactly the same style on anything that is printed. If so, that might be a way of rendering this tracking useless.

    60. Re:What's the problem? by Oligonicella · · Score: 2

      "So you take the files in a USB, print them at home and send them anonymously to an activist group."

      Why? Just for the glory of watching the paper spew? Send a copy of the USB.

    61. Re:What's the problem? by __aaltlg1547 · · Score: 1

      The are LOTS of flaws in your agument. Prehaps the easiest to explain is what happens if the is a revolution in your country and previous 'free-expression' suddenly lands you in jail?

      Then you have bigger problems that won't be solved with an anonymous printer..

    62. Re:What's the problem? by X0563511 · · Score: 1

      Well, we can tell they must have done so before - after all, they made off with your punctuation, after making sure all your Enforce stems were capitalized.

      --
      For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
    63. Re:What's the problem? by tibit · · Score: 1

      The vending machines don't care how a bill looks, so I call BS on that one, or at least that person did it for reasons that had nothing to do with the machine itself.

      There are no general-purpose optical scanners in usual bill acceptors, IIRC. There are things that are sensitive to magnetic ink, bill width, and embedded metal strips. I've seen a couple very simple fluorescence detectors. That's all. You could fool them using nothing but stuff that you can buy at a local home improvement store / crafts store.

      So, the only reason you'd xerox a bill is to have it not stand out in the pile when it's collected by the person who periodically services the machine. Those xeroxed bills still had to be magnetically overpainted in critical spots, and possibly had other things added (metal wires, fluorescent inking, etc), depending on what is present (and tested for) in given country's paper currency.

      --
      A successful API design takes a mixture of software design and pedagogy.
    64. Re:What's the problem? by fbjon · · Score: 1

      On the other hand, you could just avoid color printers for sensitive information. The paranoid can take the extra step of photocopying the pages to remove any other traces of printer fingerprints.

      --
      True confidence comes not from realising you are as good as your peers, but that your peers are as bad as you are.
    65. Re:What's the problem? by DerekLyons · · Score: 4, Interesting

      As a further note, right now there's no way to trace that serial number to me.

      They can identify that two pages both came from the same printer. Which includes sneaking into your house when you're not around and printing a test page. Or not sneaking in, if they already suspect you enough.

      Paranoid much? Seriously, they've been doing that with handwriting and typewriters since, roughly forever. Then there's any fingerprints or DNA you might leave on the paper to consider too. And your license plate number when they surveil the parking lot of the post office where the documents were mailed from. And checking your hard drive for the digital files, and your trash for draft copies, and your email for related writings, and your bookcase/ereader for related reading. Doing textual analysis on emails and other postings on the internet... Etc... etc...
       
      Consider that the Unabomber was caught because his brother recognized his writing style. The Lindbergh kidnapper by comparing handwriting. Albert Fish because he used a unique paper... (Huh, Wikipedia to the rescue again - they have an entire article on this, found while researching cases.)
       
      Seriously, acting like this represents some unique threat or certain nail in your coffin where there is no other is simply ludicrous.

    66. Re:What's the problem? by DerekLyons · · Score: 1

      The problems are availability, plausible deniability and finally, "red flaging" (I don't know the proper term, my apologies).

      You forgot "paranoia" and "treating made up extreme edge cases as if they represented reality". It's not as if there aren't a myriad other ways for you to be traced and the writing identified as yours.
       
      Seriously, Slashdot is more and more making me wish I'd invested my retirement funds in aluminum foil manufacturers.

    67. Re:What's the problem? by tibit · · Score: 1

      I agree, it's a very broad net; you pretty much have to question who buys into the shit that this is really to prevent any counterfeiting.

      You'd have to be declared mentally incompetent for falling for at least anything that's printed/xeroxed on fused toner equipment. Inkjets/bubblejets are equally obvious, sublimation too, and I won't even start about dot matrix, pen plotters or the usual photographic emulsion-on-paper.

      So, pray tell, what is this magical office printing technology that's good enough to make a counterfeit bill pass for the real thing? Because I sure would like to get my hands on it and get into the lucrative legitimate business of printing various high-security numbered forms for various government agencies. Last time I checked, you had to have fairly expensive printing equipment to do any of that, and that's still a far cry from being able to print most first-world paper currency.

      --
      A successful API design takes a mixture of software design and pedagogy.
    68. Re:What's the problem? by Cederic · · Score: 1

      You've heard wrong information.

      Of course, Enforcing the castledom of your home isn't going to help much in the face of the police anyway.

    69. Re:What's the problem? by Antique+Geekmeister · · Score: 1

      Oh, dear. Another member of the "if they're inside our network, we have bigger problems" policy of ignoring basic security practices until it's far, far, far too late.

      It's much safer to protect freedoms and rights earlier, before their loss has become accepted, than to try to roll back years or decades of common practice.

    70. Re:What's the problem? by msauve · · Score: 2

      "It's trivial to geolocate with IP"

      Really? My printer has IP address 192.168.1.201. Where is it located?

      --
      "National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
    71. Re:What's the problem? by houstonbofh · · Score: 3, Informative

      Oh? Did you buy that printer with a credit card? Video surveilence at time of purchase could be useful if not....

      After this http://www.forbes.com/sites/kashmirhill/2012/02/16/how-target-figured-out-a-teen-girl-was-pregnant-before-her-father-did/ I am seriously thinking of dropping all my cards. I will, at least, be using them a lot less.

      But to address your comment, that only works if the store records the serial number with the purchase, and not just the model. And assumes you do not buy a used printer.

    72. Re:What's the problem? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Having your printers on the public Internet is very easy to fix. Log into a public kiosk and send pornography to the printer. Lots of it. Preferably anime that would be considered child porn, in the USA. That will run it out of ink *and* cause holy bitching. You get extra points if you paste a photo of someone who looks similar to your boss's secretary on it.

    73. Re:What's the problem? by tibit · · Score: 0

      There's nothing to be learned from history. Almost any cruel behavior you can imagine has probably happened and will be happening, so you're claiming a tautology at best, or a post-hoc-ergo-propter-hoc in terms of expectations. It is an issue of expectations: we usually don't deal with sociopaths, so we don't expect others to be so -- most people believe others are good. This has nothing to do with history, you have to be realistic in your expectations. Positions of power corrupt, and expecting any good from established power figures is silly -- but this is no history, this is psychology and sociology. History doesn't tell us much about how the entirely new technological landscape will end up being abused. It has no predictive power here, and that's expected, too, for it has no theories (in scientific sense) about anything, it's but a collection of anecdotes.

      --
      A successful API design takes a mixture of software design and pedagogy.
    74. Re:What's the problem? by Cederic · · Score: 1

      Everywhere where I've seen a networked printer it has always had fully public IP address and accessible from the Internet. The admins just don't bother to do anything about it.

      A grand total of zero computers in my company have a public IP address or are accessible from the Internet. What makes you think any printers would be?

      (Note: We have around 8000 printers; I kind of lost count of the computers)

    75. Re:What's the problem? by ColdWetDog · · Score: 1

      I would wager a bet that the PDL specs DON'T include info on the little tiny dots. No?

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    76. Re:What's the problem? by houstonbofh · · Score: 2

      Just like Kim Dotcom. Wait a minute...

    77. Re:What's the problem? by tibit · · Score: 2

      Who are the fucktards who came up with an idea that this should be under an NDA?! What THE FUCK has changed that this stuff cannot be included in at least the electronic version of the printer manual? It used to be that printers came with manuals that had the full command language laid out in the back. Of course todays' printers are more complex; it'd be probably a waste of paper and money to include it in whatever physical documentation that's coming with the printer. Alas, there's nothing at all barring you from just documenting your FINE product in the first place.

      Sorry, this irrational behavior on the part of printer vendors just gets me all upset. Because it's stupid. Fuck if I will buy Konica/Minolta, even HP has freely available technical documentation for their mainstream printing languages, even for "esoteric" stuff like PJL.

      --
      A successful API design takes a mixture of software design and pedagogy.
    78. Re:What's the problem? by dissy · · Score: 1

      Let's imagine I have a home printer that prints these microdots. I use it for printing birthday cards, kids' homework, letters to my bank, and other miscellany.

      The problem comes when you go to sell that printer, and it is then used to print money.
      Shoot first, ask later - is now the official policy in this country.

      Now all that illegitimate money printed off your old printer is linked to the families names on the birthday cards, your childrens names on the homework, your name and the name of your bank, and likely your address on one of those bank letters as well.
      Plenty of evidence linking you to the crime!

      Which door exactly do you think the secret service will be kicking in first, and whos faces will the assault riffles be in? Yes, you and your family.

      Better hope your wife doesn't ask what is going on, as that is resisting. They shoot first and ask questions later you know.

      A similar raid gone bad in Detroit ended up with a flash grenade tossed in a window, and killing a 7 year old child sleeping on a couch. The father was forced to the ground at gunpoint with his face in his own childs pool of blood, for quite some time before they realized it wasn't even the right house.

      shoot first, ask questions later, questions such as: is this even the right house, and could ANY possible circumstances mean we have the wrong person.

      For your own sake, I hope no criminals purchase your printer, or dig it out of the trash when you are done with it.
      Even more reason to go Office Space on it when you are done with it.

    79. Re:What's the problem? by drussell · · Score: 5, Informative

      Problem 4: Printing these dots consumes my ink.

      Yes, and it uses a LOT of it! Older HP color lasers would print a B&W page without using the color toner cartridges at all, no wasted toner on a B&W page... Many of the newer ones I've seen always use a color pass for B&W, making color toner cartridges run out quite quickly when printing B&W even though it shouldn't even have to pull color toner onto the drum. And yes, the yellow always runs out first (even though it's only used a little bit more than the base "waste toner" that is used on each pass of a cartridge). (I have a couple LaserJet 2840s and this is VERY obvious; we get about 10% of rated color toner cart life due to high B&W use).

      I'm sure HP loves it, it's another way to sell even more quantity of their overpriced inks and toners. This "feature" costs us about $500/year per printer in extra toner use! (About an extra cyan and magenta each year -- yellow about every 9 mo.)

      I can even see the pattern naked-eye, at least on the 96 bright paper we use... It's always been VERY annoying. Otherwise, fairly nice printers, but they eat supplies and I've known exactly why since day 1.

    80. Re:What's the problem? by houstonbofh · · Score: 2

      Actually, this can lead to more security for wistleblowers, if they have some knowledge. Since this is now so easy, it is hard for any government to justify having a large questioned documents section. (They are expensive after all) So all you have to do, is change your dots, print the super secret stuff, and then change them back. Then if they compare pages, and get non-matching numbers, they check no further.

    81. Re:What's the problem? by Gaygirlie · · Score: 1

      A grand total of zero computers in my company have a public IP address or are accessible from the Internet. What makes you think any printers would be?

      I never claimed to have visited your company, did I? But e.g. all the schools I've been at had all the printers fully accessible everywhere, including outside. Similarly, I've been doing odd jobs for this or that company, and their printers weren't secured either in any way or form.

      Ie. of course there are good admins out there. But there are also terribly bad ones, too.

    82. Re:What's the problem? by currently_awake · · Score: 1

      It's the slippery slope problem. If they are willing to spy on you without a court order then what's to stop their printer driver from scanning your computer for copyrighted documents? (RIAA) What's to stop them from emailing a copy of all documents printed to the NSA for distribution to American corporations? (Industrial espionage) Remember these companies ship their products world wide, it's not just an "American" issue.

    83. Re:What's the problem? by drussell · · Score: 1

      I agree, it's a very broad net; you pretty much have to question who buys into the shit that this is really to prevent any counterfeiting.

      Of course not... As usual, they SAY it is for some reasonable-sounding-to-the-layman reason, but it's much more far-reaching than that. And we all have to suffer.

      Against far-reaching internet monitoring legislation? You must be a pedophile, it's just for child porn... etc. etc...

      Grrr.. Why do we let them get away with these things?!!

    84. Re:What's the problem? by pclminion · · Score: 1

      I'm perfectly okay with technology in printers designed to prevent the devices from printing banknotes. That's not tracking anybody, it's just enforcing a law that hopefully we can all agree with ("don't print money"). Printing identifiable tracking numbers on every page is a different story.

    85. Re:What's the problem? by currently_awake · · Score: 2, Informative

      When you install the printer it phones home and gives them IP and serial. Now they DO know who you are. Now let's say you work for the government but want to protest something they are doing- so you print out posters and secretly staple them to telephone poles. And lose your job.

    86. Re:What's the problem? by pclminion · · Score: 2

      I work for a university and we've used this to find out who was printing politically "charged flyers".

      Students getting involved in politics, we can't have that! What University is this so I can avoid ever coming within 100 miles of it or accidentally sending my kids there?

    87. Re:What's the problem? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      we have the right to be free some all tracking and intrusion unless we have committed a crime. it says so in the constitution.

    88. Re:What's the problem? by camperdave · · Score: 1

      It needs skill and time to interpret... and as with all expert testimony, it is open to mis-interpretation as well. In a court of law, having "This document printed by serial number $X" is going to carry a lot more weight than "Based on the pattern of dust, that there is a strong likelihood that this document came from the defendant's printer".

      --
      When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
    89. Re:What's the problem? by camperdave · · Score: 1

      Obviously those were microdots containing his computer's serial number.

      --
      When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
    90. Re:What's the problem? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I can imagine. In Dutch "Stront" means "Shit"

    91. Re:What's the problem? by Tweezak · · Score: 2
      Easy solution.

      Print all your ransom notes/bomb threats, etc. on a yellow background. Problem solved.

    92. Re:What's the problem? by grub · · Score: 1

      So what? Many people, especially those in homes, have NAT'd networks. Yours never talks out to the world for anything? Many do and most users aren't smart enough to know how to stop if. Or are even aware that it happens.

      We have nice printers at work that send email when they have problems or need supplies. They are also NAT'd out.

      --
      Trolling is a art,
    93. Re:What's the problem? by currently_awake · · Score: 2

      Most modern photocopiers scan to a hard drive before printing. In theory they could have a built in cellphone modem to send everything to the NSA or TSA. Also it's possible to emboss a pattern on the edge of the page that's only visible under polarized light instead of yellow dots, allowing them to track back to the copier where they read the hard drive that also stores the yellow dot info (scanner also detects yellow dots and records that info).

    94. Re:What's the problem? by grub · · Score: 1


      Trust me, the firmware developers in the printer industry aren't exactly the best and brightest in the software development world

      But they were still able to shoehorn in a system of secretly printing out unique information to paper... :)

      --
      Trolling is a art,
    95. Re:What's the problem? by BaldingByMicrosoft · · Score: 2

      I started to consider this. But then I stopped when I realized that it's just the "blah blah blah" that somebody had spewed in the past.

    96. Re:What's the problem? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So how do you get into service mode in a Konica Minolta printer. I see the mode, but it requires some sort of password.

      Googling doesn't help.

    97. Re:What's the problem? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "... this just requires knowing how to get to the "Service Mode" of the machine - which, while no company will tell you how, is trivially easy to find on Google)."

      Trivially easy? Goodling for this information in re: MFC-3360C, I came up with dead ends (links to websites that might discuss the issue, but don't load), and links to technical manuals that MIGHT have the information -- but there's no way to know, without buying the manual first.

      Slashdotters who actually have this information might do us all a service by uploading it, for any and all models for which they have it. (This includes the Mr./Ms. Oxide, him/herself!).

    98. Re:What's the problem? by NormalVisual · · Score: 1

      History doesn't tell us much about how the entirely new technological landscape will end up being abused.

      Not specifically, but it does make a pretty reliable statement that at some point the technology *will* be abused or limited to the detriment of most, and that those who would abuse it view the free and anonymous dissemination of information as something to be actively quashed, by force if needed. That's what we need to learn from history, and it's been demonstrated time and time again over the centuries.

      --
      Please stand clear of the doors, por favor mantenganse alejado de las puertas
    99. Re:What's the problem? by blackest_k · · Score: 1

      Just a thought but if I want to use my printer through android my print job goes to google then sent to my lan to my netbook then to my nas which then prints with one of the two attached printers.

      Chances are Google knows pretty much everything about that printjob where it was uploaded from downloaded to and almost certainly the content, i'd be an idiot to use this for anything compromising but there are a lot of idiots around. I think dots on a print job are a minor issue these days.

    100. Re:What's the problem? by KingAlanI · · Score: 1

      is this about university political correctness, or something genuinely offensive? (hard to tell though)
      Wanting to control the use of university/employer resources is probably understandable.

      --
      I listen to both RIAA and non-RIAA stuff if I like the music, tangential business/politics nonwithstanding.
    101. Re:What's the problem? by msauve · · Score: 1

      "We have nice printers at work that send email when they have problems or need supplies. They are also NAT'd out"

      You're doing it wrong. They should be talking to an internal SMTP server.

      --
      "National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
    102. Re:What's the problem? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That actually is true in some European countries.

    103. Re:What's the problem? by grub · · Score: 1

      We do (in another city through VPN) but the fact is that printers can talk to the world, even if NAT exists.

      --
      Trolling is a art,
    104. Re:What's the problem? by YttriumOxide · · Score: 1

      I would wager a bet that the PDL specs DON'T include info on the little tiny dots. No?

      Considering they're not controlled by the PDL (Page Description Language); no, no they don't. They also don't include info on how the network interface is configured, what SMTP protocol parts are supported by the device's email functions and so on.

      --
      My book about LSD and Self-Discovery
      Also on facebook as: DroppingAcidDaleBewan
    105. Re:What's the problem? by __aaltlg1547 · · Score: 2

      Oh, dear. Another member of the "if they're inside our network, we have bigger problems" policy of ignoring basic security practices until it's far, far, far too late.

      It's much safer to protect freedoms and rights earlier, before their loss has become accepted, than to try to roll back years or decades of common practice.

      Nice condescension there. Do you get points for that?

      The ironic thing is that is the same sort of argument the Secret Service would make to support their efforts to print the identifying dots. They want to protect your ability to have some confidence in the authenticity of paper currency, and unless you're a counterfeiter, you want them to be successful at their efforts. You just don't like the dots because there are other potentially nefarious purposes that they could put those dots to.

      There's an inherent tension between not wanting Big Brother too far in your shorts and wanting Big Brother to help you ensure that reasonable laws are enforced and enforceable.

      I see the dots as a relatively low risk that any savvy person can work around if need be, especially when traded off against my desire to have it possible to ensure the authenticity and integrity of printed documents including but not limited to currency.

    106. Re:What's the problem? by AtomicJake · · Score: 1

      Firstly, what's the big deal with the document having these microdots?

      I found it interesting that you even might think that this is not a bid deal. For starters: When you buy a printer, are you informed about it printing microdots?

    107. Re:What's the problem? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But did you trying powering the printer off, and then back on again? Surely that will fix it.

    108. Re:What's the problem? by YttriumOxide · · Score: 1

      Who are the fucktards who came up with an idea that this should be under an NDA?! What THE FUCK has changed that this stuff cannot be included in at least the electronic version of the printer manual? It used to be that printers came with manuals that had the full command language laid out in the back. Of course todays' printers are more complex; it'd be probably a waste of paper and money to include it in whatever physical documentation that's coming with the printer. Alas, there's nothing at all barring you from just documenting your FINE product in the first place.

      Sorry, this irrational behavior on the part of printer vendors just gets me all upset. Because it's stupid. Fuck if I will buy Konica/Minolta, even HP has freely available technical documentation for their mainstream printing languages, even for "esoteric" stuff like PJL.

      Woah, angry much?

      PJL is hardly esoteric, although it is often fairly vendor specific (beyond the basic commands that are standard across almost all manufacturers).

      The reason this stuff is behind an NDA is mostly that we've got a LOT of other stuff on our Developer Support Portal other than just this. If we didn't have such a portal, we'd probably (although not certainly) make it open to the public. That said however, you can determine a lot about a device by HOW standard things are implemented and it is at least somewhat prudent to protect the implementation.

      By the way, HP publishes the standard PCL and PJL command sets, but they don't freely and openly give you the exact implementation of these specs on their devices (it's generally ridiculously easy to assume and figure it out yourself, but that's actually true for any manufacturer's device)

      But hey, if you don't want to buy Konica Minolta products, that's fine by me. I don't sell them - I just trust that the software I write for them and the information that I give out as openly as I'm allowed to will encourage others to do so (so that the company does well, I have a long and prosperous career there, and my team can be expanded as I want)

      --
      My book about LSD and Self-Discovery
      Also on facebook as: DroppingAcidDaleBewan
    109. Re:What's the problem? by ka8zrt · · Score: 1

      Not so easy... There are techniques to pick out such differences between different inks. Depending on the specifics of the ink/toner, it could come down having to print the page with a full background of the tagging color (yellow), then immediately printing on the same page the desired material. But even then, if I decided to use steganographic techniques, and mask out carefully selected areas where I will later be printing that info, given a state-of-the-art lab like those that DHS, the FBI or Secret Service have, the pattern could still be detected.

      --
      Helping build UN*X and the Internet since 1981. :)
    110. Re:What's the problem? by YttriumOxide · · Score: 1

      It's the slippery slope problem. If they are willing to spy on you without a court order then what's to stop their printer driver from scanning your computer for copyrighted documents? (RIAA) What's to stop them from emailing a copy of all documents printed to the NSA for distribution to American corporations? (Industrial espionage) Remember these companies ship their products world wide, it's not just an "American" issue.

      Not living in America, I'm well aware it's not just an American issue. As far as the print driver goes: Do you really think we could get away with letting the driver communicate back to the outside world with that much data and not have it all over the news?

      I can give you a personal guarantee that our drivers don't do that, and they day they do, I'll quit my job in protest. Not that my word means much, being a relatively anonymous person on Slashdot, but hey - take it or leave it.

      --
      My book about LSD and Self-Discovery
      Also on facebook as: DroppingAcidDaleBewan
    111. Re:What's the problem? by n3r0.m4dski11z · · Score: 1

      "True, but most aren't given public IP addresses (any many aren't even given access out the firewall to try and figure out the public address)"

      You work for a printer company and dont realize that a nat does not nessecarily stop outbound communication from a device on your network, so called "phoning home". Wow.

      --
      -
    112. Re:What's the problem? by xelah · · Score: 1

      The are LOTS of flaws in your agument. Prehaps the easiest to explain is what happens if the is a revolution in your country and previous 'free-expression' suddenly lands you in jail?

      Let's imagine I have a home printer that prints these microdots. I use it for printing birthday cards, kids' homework, letters to my bank, and other miscellany. If there's a revolution and any of these things become illegal, I've got bigger problems than being tracked by my printer.

      As a further note, right now there's no way to trace that serial number to me.

      Apart from all the birthday cards, letters to your bank and so on with your name on it, you mean? And this doesn't just extend to governments oppressing citizenry en masse. A whistleblower in the public or private sector could get caught out by this - print your document, send it to the press (or boss or regulator or potentially corrupt police or whatever), have it seized or otherwise examined by someone you've criticized and lose your job. Anyone could correlate the dots on your secret documents to those on your non-secret ones.

    113. Re:What's the problem? by turkeyfeathers · · Score: 1

      The FBI traced the writers of the constitution, by examining some microscopic yellow dots on the document, and then these fellows (members of the so-called "Founding Fathers" terrorist group) were transported to Gitmo. Problem solved.

    114. Re:What's the problem? by YttriumOxide · · Score: 1

      "True, but most aren't given public IP addresses (any many aren't even given access out the firewall to try and figure out the public address)"

      You work for a printer company and dont realize that a nat does not nessecarily stop outbound communication from a device on your network, so called "phoning home". Wow.

      Actually, yes, I do realise that, but since it's not what I said, your point is hardly relevant Mr "M4dSki11z" (your "mad skills" appear to exclude reading comprehension, spelling and grammar sadly).

      I was referring to a firewall, which can and does block outbound traffic. I also primarily work with MFP devices and so admittedly am often guilty of considering corporate networks more than home ones I'll admit. However if your home network isn't blocking random outbound traffic, you've only got yourself to blame.

      --
      My book about LSD and Self-Discovery
      Also on facebook as: DroppingAcidDaleBewan
    115. Re:What's the problem? by turkeyfeathers · · Score: 1

      If not, reinstall Windows. That should do it.

    116. Re:What's the problem? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      if they were not trying to hide anything, why not be open about it and say "we are tracking blah blah blah every time you print a page"... oh wait...

    117. Re:What's the problem? by orangebox · · Score: 1

      If you've ever registered your printer for the warranty or called support on that printer they can. Name, phone, serial number and address are normally required information their helpdesk staff has to get.

    118. Re:What's the problem? by tibit · · Score: 2

      It must take some serious conspiracy theorist to believe that publicly publishing an accurate description of a printer's command language puts you somehow at a disadvantage. Because, you know, your geeky users who may dare to develop products that talk to your printer directly are teh worst hackers and all.

      Here's my take: there was a time about a decade and a half ago where I had to develop a self contained product that, for sake of being simple to use, had to talk directly to a printer. That product ended selling with a particular brand of printer, and the choice was made solely on the available level of documentation: otherwise, even if the printer would be cheaper to buy or to own, it'd still be a pipe dream. Someone somewhere got a couple thousand sold printers because of it -- all on documentation, nothing else.

      --
      A successful API design takes a mixture of software design and pedagogy.
    119. Re:What's the problem? by tibit · · Score: 1

      One either claims that history has predictive powers, or one doesn't. Decide and be subject to consequences of such a decision in terms of scrutiny afforded such predictive powers. That's all I'm saying. Don't skirt the issue, please.

      --
      A successful API design takes a mixture of software design and pedagogy.
    120. Re:What's the problem? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But to address your comment, that only works if the store records the serial number with the purchase, and not just the model.

      Most stores do, if you get X months of warranty on your printer (or any other piece of hardware with a serial number).

      Otherwise you could bring in your old printer and the warranty card for the same model of printer that you bought yesterday and have you old printer fixed for free.
      Some might even try to replace their old printer every year by buying a new one of the same model and then take the old printer and the new receipt back to the store and claim buyer's remorse.

    121. Re:What's the problem? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Many currencies use digital watermarking which uses more than just yellow dot patterns. Digital watermarks were added to various currencies in the 80's. The digital watermarks can survive significant changes to the image size and resolution. It is cheap to make low res optics that can recognize the digital pattern.

    122. Re:What's the problem? by YttriumOxide · · Score: 1

      It must take some serious conspiracy theorist to believe that publicly publishing an accurate description of a printer's command language puts you somehow at a disadvantage.

      As I said in my post, it would likely be open if not for the fact that we have somewhere to put it that happens to be "somewhat" closed (come on, free upon signing a simple NDA is pretty damn open compared to a lot of things out there).

      Because, you know, your geeky users who may dare to develop products that talk to your printer directly are teh worst hackers and all.

      I'd be VERY happy for those geeky users to sign up to our developer support portal. I strongly and actively encourage them to do so.

      Here's my take: there was a time about a decade and a half ago where I had to develop a self contained product that, for sake of being simple to use, had to talk directly to a printer. That product ended selling with a particular brand of printer, and the choice was made solely on the available level of documentation: otherwise, even if the printer would be cheaper to buy or to own, it'd still be a pipe dream. Someone somewhere got a couple thousand sold printers because of it -- all on documentation, nothing else.

      And I do think it's a real shame that we don't have it open for this kind of reason. Not my choice, and I'm not defending it, but it's NOT as big a deal as you seem to want to make of it. You want the specs? Sign a simple bit of paper that says you won't tell anyone else, and we'll give them to you to use in your own products. We'll even give you sample code for other functions to communicate with the devices that you can use in your own products with no royalties or charges of any kind.

      --
      My book about LSD and Self-Discovery
      Also on facebook as: DroppingAcidDaleBewan
    123. Re:What's the problem? by vux984 · · Score: 1

      As a further note, right now there's no way to trace that serial number to me. Generally speaking, tracing a serial number will get it to the store that sold it to me and not much further.

      A lot of electronics stores record the product serial number on the customer invoice. From Dell to Newegg...

      Unless you walk into best buy and paid cash, I wouldn't count on the store not knowing who you are.

      Further, a lot of printers these days are internet enabled with "phone home features" to enable "cloud printing from your smart phone" and other nonsense features I haven't quite figured out the point of yet. I'm not sure what the adoption rate on these features is, but its probably not trending down.

    124. Re:What's the problem? by Rick17JJ · · Score: 2

      A whistle-blower or political dissident could purchase an inexpensive printer in cash, without using their shoppers discount card. Then they could print the files from the USB device and then quickly dispose of the inexpensive printer.

      Not wanting to risk loosing their job, or getting sued or harassed by their corrupt employer, they could even go so far as to purchase the printer in cash from a store in a different city. That way, records would show that the printer had been sold to someone in cash, in some city other than when the whistle-blower actually lives.

      Does downloading updated printer drivers involve sending the printer's serial number and IP address back to the manufacturer? I do not know if that actually happens or not. To cover that possibility, a technically adept whistle-blower could disconnect their computer from the Internet and then boot up from a Knoppix disk or some other live Linux CD, before printing the documents. Most likely, the Linux live CD will already have the Linux driver for that printer, already on the CD. They could then dispose of the printer and the LiveCD before connecting the connecting their computer to the Internet and then booting it back up in Windows or Mac OS.

      An alternative to using a Linux live CD, would be to purchase an old used computer in cash. Presumably, the driver for the printer could be installed from the CD without never having to be connected to the Internet. The inexpensive old used computer could then quickly be disposed of.

      When mailing the documents to an activist group or the press, they could also mail if from a different city than where they actually live, so that the post mark would not show which city they live in.

      Unfortunately, most whistleblowers or political dissidents probably would not know about the tiny yellow dots. Of course, it would be preferable if most criminals do not know about such technology. Most terrorist organizations are probably already sophisticated enough to avoid such mistakes, unfortunately.

    125. Re:What's the problem? by dxk3355 · · Score: 1

      I work at Xerox and it's not a secret, they'll tell you outright that they are there.

    126. Re:What's the problem? by ukemike · · Score: 1

      Let's imagine I have a home printer that prints these microdots. I use it for printing birthday cards, kids' homework, letters to my bank, and other miscellany.

      So are you saying that if you have nothing to hide....

      Imagine this easy to imagine scenario, you printed up fliers an Occupy rally and put them up all over town. Then during the rally some black bloc assholes set a cop car on fire. Now if the police can connect your printer to the fliers and you are a terrorist organizer. No one ever hears from you again, because you have been indefinitely detained without trial or hearing.

      --
      -- QED
    127. Re:What's the problem? by spire3661 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Hes fucking right. The lassez-faire attitude about this on slashdot is pretty disgusting. This level of collusion between the govt and business to stop counterfeiting (which is not worth spying on every printer) is an abomination and lays the groundwork for much worse. Im sorry you dont have the imagination to see the end game to this.

      --
      Good-bye
    128. Re:What's the problem? by spire3661 · · Score: 1

      I totally disagree. As long as Im not passing fake notes as currency, it shouldnt be illegal to reproduce them. The crime should be USING THEM, not printing them.

      --
      Good-bye
    129. Re:What's the problem? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I seem to remember something about the printer switching to another color for the microdots, if you try something like that.

      That's why I print all my ransom notes on a rainbow colored background...
      Unfortunately no one takes me serious, so I haven't collected any ransom yet. :-(

    130. Re:What's the problem? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      Counterfeit black and white currency is a serious problem in the U.S. $500/year is a small price to pay to combat this epidemic and keep our economy from sliding into deep recession!!1

    131. Re:What's the problem? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They don't need to have a public IP address. The Konica Minota printers that are among the ones discussed here "phone home" either via the "normal" internet line of the company, or via an optional GSM modem to order spare parts and supplies. You can of course firewall that off, but then you won't have fresh toner delivered just before the current one runs out, or a service technician standing in front of your door to fix any small hickups.

    132. Re:What's the problem? by Rick17JJ · · Score: 1

      Perhaps they could also leave their cell phone at home, to avoid the possibility of their cell phone signal showing them as being in that store at the time and place where the printer was purchased.

    133. Re:What's the problem? by tengu1sd · · Score: 1

      >>> As a further note, right now there's no way to trace that serial number to me

      Do you ever load a driver for that printer from media in the box or from the printer company web site? How about the Printer Control Applet that tells you when to buy cartridges adds duplex and custom paper options? Unless you're printing from from a system without a network connection, it's trivial to associate printer serial number with IP address.

    134. Re:What's the problem? by Antique+Geekmeister · · Score: 2

      I hope I do get points for this: the idea that "once they start abusing that ignored security feature, it's too late so we shouldn't think about it now" is a very common security approach that makes it difficult for my peers to clean up environments we work with. By reviewing and accepting your layers of protections in advance, you can provide much more effective protection should any one layer fail. The idea that "it's too late by then" is very helpful to guiding people down the slippery slope to a police state, because it _is_ too late by then.

      Unfortunately, this "security feature" was not publicly set or even ackonwledged: The existence of the microdots is one aspect: providing the access to model information and serial numbers, as a monitoring practice, is quite another, and that occurred _without_ court order and without a legal framework, law, or regulations on when or how it should be provided. _That_ is a Big Brother tactic ripe for abuse. Without the legal trail of a warrant or subpoena, how can we know that the primary usage of such monitoring is _not_ political monitoring? And how can we even know whether it's ever been helpful to identify or prosecute a real counterfeiter?

    135. Re:What's the problem? by msauve · · Score: 1

      So, it's been said that the dot patterns in question link to a printer's serial number. Do your printers include their serial number in their emails? And don't the secret police think that the printer which talks through the VPN exists in the location of the remote VPN endpoint?

      --
      "National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
    136. Re:What's the problem? by bWareiWare.co.uk · · Score: 1

      Fine, so if you EVER want to print anything which mentions a religion, politics or any of the millions of other things people have been persecuted, jailed and killed for over the years you will puchase a competitors printer? You know like history homework, or a birthday card to anyone who holds any option on anything.

      Of couse they can trace it back to you (or why would they do it), and to make it easier all they need to do is compele everyone to registerer an example page (the is lots of precedent for this with typewriters).

      Sure the lots of other important things to worry about, but that dosn't mean it should be let slide. Perticularly when the alternative (don't do it) is even easier and cheeper.

    137. Re:What's the problem? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Either they are of use to law enforcement and therefore of concern to citizens, or they aren't useful and they're a waste of our tax dollars.

      You pay your ink cartidges with tax dollars?

    138. Re:What's the problem? by ArsenneLupin · · Score: 1

      Who are the fucktards who came up with an idea that this should be under an NDA?!

      Well, then make the information available:

      1. register a domain
      2. set up a website on it pretending to be some kind of business
      3. as Yttrium suggested, send a mail from domain to Konica asking for docs
      4. "sign" the NDA
      5. receive document
      6. post it to wherever you like
      7. let domain lapse

      How difficult really is this? Chances are, Konica won't even bother to run a whois on the domain, and if you're concerned that they will, there are enough ways to register domains by proxy or anonymously.

    139. Re:What's the problem? by grub · · Score: 1

      I don't recall if the serials are included. The model and location certainly are (location being set in the web interface)
      In any case, iirc the idea was not to have a smoking gun, but to prove that a document was indeed printed on a suspect's printer. The same reasoning, as has been pointed out in this thread, why samples of typewriter type was required in the Eastern Bloc countries.

      --
      Trolling is a art,
    140. Re:What's the problem? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The larger point is that this tech can be used by foreign regimes trying to crack down on dissidents, so we are aiding them by default.

    141. Re:What's the problem? by rohan972 · · Score: 1

      Yeh, I'd prefer it if these microdots didn't exist, but I've yet to see a convincing argument of their actual danger.

      Then why would you prefer they don't exist? It would seem that you have an intuitive understanding of the problem that you are unable to articulate.

      Many stores ask for personal details "for the warranty" so in fact to be able to track a printer to the purchaser is possible. The first thing off the top of my head is that this could affect whistle-blowers. If you are leaking information to the press, for example, you had better not have printed any of those files from your own printer.

      The demonstrated danger, however, is the government itself. We have constitutional limits on the government because governments have over a period of thousands of years been shown to be dangerous. So, the proper question isn't "What reason have we shown to justify stopping the government doing this?" but rather "What justification of this action has the government provided to convince us to allow it?"

      Where is the constitutional authority to track the writings of the population? Seems like it could be a first amendment issue to me.

      A quick look at wikipedia later: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McIntyre_v._Ohio_Elections_Commission
      the Supreme Court of the United States held that an Ohio statute that prohibits anonymous political or campaign literature is unconstitutional.

      On the face of it, to a non-lawyer such as myself, it doesn't seem that the federal government requiring these "features" could possibly be legal as it effectively prohibits anonymous campaign literature.

    142. Re:What's the problem? by Mista2 · · Score: 1

      But once they have a sample of your birthday invitations with your name and address on them, they can match that tot the political protest pamphlet you also printed later 8)

    143. Re:What's the problem? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      not true. you generally have to register your serial number with the company, not the retailer, for any post-retail (usually 90 days) warranty. yes, you could bring in the old printer with the new one's receipt, though any wear and tear will be telling, depending on the time lapsed between purchases/amount of use. hell, i once bought some speakers online and they died after a day. i went to best buy and bought the same ones, brought it home, exchanged the contents, returned them and got my money back. i could have shipped them, RMA style, but i didn't want to wait. now if they had died after a month or 2, maybe they would have not let me. on the other hand, i returned the original xbox after 60 days, when it first came out, and target didn't even pull out the contents to see if it was in there, just opened the flaps to see the internal packing (a big black plastic piece that could have been hiding anything of similar weight). back to topic, the manufacturer may keep tabs on what blocks of serial numbers go where, but there is no way that a retailer collects the serial numbers.

    144. Re:What's the problem? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Gawd, someone who actually "gets it!" Thank you! :-) The problem with the yellow dots is it's just one more way we're being watched to keep us in the corral of obedience.

    145. Re:What's the problem? by mikael · · Score: 1

      The point is that the government made the companies do something that took away the privacy and anonymity of their customers, without telling them.

      If someone decided to become a whistleblower, print out some commercially sensitive document and send it to the police as evidence of price fixing or corruption, forensic analysis would allow that document to be traced back to the printer with that serial number. Though, many departments do create virtual serial numbers by randomizing the text in subtle ways for every individual party.

      --
      Vintage computer adverts: http://www.vintageadbrowser.com/computers-and-software-ads
    146. Re:What's the problem? by mikael · · Score: 2

      Just use letters cut out from newspapers. And wear latex gloves.

      --
      Vintage computer adverts: http://www.vintageadbrowser.com/computers-and-software-ads
    147. Re:What's the problem? by tibit · · Score: 1

      Entering into business transactions (like an executed NDA) under false pretenses is fraud, so that's not even remotely on the table. What you're suggesting doesn't fix the underlying problem either. I speak with my wallet, and that's enough as far as I'm concerned.

      --
      A successful API design takes a mixture of software design and pedagogy.
    148. Re:What's the problem? by camperdave · · Score: 1

      You forgot to say Bazinga, Sheldon.

      --
      When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
    149. Re:What's the problem? by cffrost · · Score: 1

      Add to that the "yellow circles" patterns that are in various currencies (like the pattern of "20s" on a $20 bill) and they have been working with copier/scanner/software makers to flag those items as non-copy able as well.

      That pattern is called the EURion constellation, a portmanteau (of "EUR" and "Orion,") coined when it was discovery in 2002, six years after it began appearing on banknotes.

      https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Eurion_constellation

      --
      Thank you, Edward Snowden.

      "Arguments from authority are worthless." —Carl Sagan
    150. Re:What's the problem? by cffrost · · Score: 1

      Counterfeit black and white currency is a serious problem in the U.S. $500/year is a small price to pay to combat this epidemic and keep our economy from sliding into deep recession!!1

      Absolutely. This situation arises frequently in the underground dog fighting circuits, where unscrupulous managers convince the dogs to accept payment in US currency. The dogs don't realize the deception until the Secret Service busts them unwittingly passing off the monochrome bills at the butcher shop.

      --
      Thank you, Edward Snowden.

      "Arguments from authority are worthless." —Carl Sagan
    151. Re:What's the problem? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      in you're bedroom, 3 ft left of the back right wall.

    152. Re:What's the problem? by gbjbaanb · · Score: 1

      doesn't benefit you directly?

      Sales is all about providing people with what they want ore need, in this case you'd have one hell of a marketing advantage if your were the only printers that didn't identify your prints to the secret police. But, hey, you continue to make the same cookie-cutter software to put on them because your processes are too 'dilbert' to manage a couple of #ifdefs or configuration options on the build servers.

      They say this is why small businesses do well against their massively-funded corporate opposition, its because they can respond to changing needs quickly and effectively.

    153. Re:What's the problem? by __aaltlg1547 · · Score: 1

      Hes fucking right. The lassez-faire attitude about this on slashdot is pretty disgusting. This level of collusion between the govt and business to stop counterfeiting (which is not worth spying on every printer) is an abomination and lays the groundwork for much worse. Im sorry you dont have the imagination to see the end game to this.

      You're talking to a filtered population which explains the less-than-panic this announcement produced. If you're posting on /., you've already made the decision that you think you live in a free country where the police aren't likely to come breaking down your door on the basis of something you said that may be declared illegal after the fact. Do you imagine that /. isn't going to fetch up your registration information and complete posting history the first time a government agent asks for it?

      "Spying on every printer" is an overstatement. What they're doing is laying the groundwork so that they can prove (sometimes) after the fact who committed a crime.

      This isn't a technology that enables them to identify what you've printed on your computer remotely -- that would be spying and it's technically feasible today -- a fact that unsettles me a great deal more than the unannounced printing of identifying information. To use that information, they need a piece of paper you printed in hand and either the printer itself or a registration record linking that printer to you. They can't get the former without a search warrant. They can probably get the other without one because the printer company is probably going to cooperate.

      And yeah, if they abuse the power, it could be bad. But if they have a mind to abuse power in way that makes anything you might have printed illegal, IT WON'T MATTER because a government that out of control isn't going to waste its time with gathering real evidence of its new thought crimes. It's just going to ignore your rights, produce whatever real and false evidence they want against you and lock you the hell up.

      And before it gets to that point, smart people will have stopped using electronic devices for anything that the government could conceivably consider subversive. You'll be handwriting messages to your compatriots on used newspaper with pink crayons that you melt down and dispose of very carefully.

      Back in the real world, we're still able to get pretty detailed information about what the government is doing using freedom of information requests. That, at least, ought to be somewhat comforting.

    154. Re:What's the problem? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      SERIOUSLY doubt it was even that hard.

      "hey we want to ... "

      "sure why not sounds like a decent thing to do..."

      You seem to think requirements are well thought in large companies. They are not. They are tossed in. You talk to the right guys at the right time and stuff just gets 'added in'. The engineers go 'oh ok what is the problem ... oh here is how you do that' manager goes 'yeah sure do it'. No real thought put into the process...

      Doubt they had to twist too hard. Sometimes companies just do things for free. Just usually not for their customers...

    155. Re:What's the problem? by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      It only raises a flag to those who hate governments and want them to do nothing. Tracking down criminals is clearly a violation of the criminal's rights and the start of a slippery slope to track down non-criminals.

    156. Re:What's the problem? by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      Sounds paranoid. You're assuming the government WILL become a totalitarian state where free through is illegal, and that any tool used to catch criminals is automatically going to be used to repress non-criminals.

      These sorts of investigations take manpower. They'll do that for counterfeiters, for criminals, but they're not going to put that sort of manpower on every citizen just to keep track on purity of thought.

      It is a reasonable action for printer makers to take to add these dots, there is no logical reason to refuse, so there's no reason to treat them like traitors.

    157. Re:What's the problem? by Darinbob · · Score: 2

      So don't use printers. Or mobile phones. Or land phones. Or pen and paper. Or credit cards. Or cash (those things hold fingerprints and have *omg* serial numbers).

    158. Re:What's the problem? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I have an HP color laser printer from about 7 or 8 years ago. I had heard about these "microdots" back then, except at the time, they were designed to just print down the side in a row (not all over the document).

      The printer works fine and I can still get toner for it. I'm fairly certain that nobody is going to retrieve the credit card transaction records after 7 years, nor are they going to request sales transaction information from CompUSA (oh, wait...) to find out who bought the printer with this serial number.

      Repeat after me: exercise in futility.

    159. Re:What's the problem? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because it means they can proove that a particular protest poster was printed on the same printer as doucument b.

    160. Re:What's the problem? by einhverfr · · Score: 2

      Well, there are actually two uses for the yellow dots.

      The first is tracking fake documents back to their source. There your idea has some merit.

      The other is noting that a document was printed on a laser printer anyway. For example, TSA agents look at all id's with a blue light, presumably looking for these dots. A magnifying glass, looking at microprint on, say, passports would get further than the yellow light, and would not be more expensive or time consuming. Indeed the same magnifying glass might even show these yellow dots. The current scheme only catches cheap fakes. Someone mounting a major counterfeiting operation for things like visas and passports would use better technology than that though.

      The issue that this is a cheap way to identify fakes is very dangerous because it is fairly easy to circumvent.

      --

      LedgerSMB: Open source Accounting/ERP
    161. Re:What's the problem? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Use woollen gloves or socks, latex gloves can pick up fingerprints from the oils left behind.

    162. Re:What's the problem? by Dan+B. · · Score: 1

      Sorry, you have it the wrong way around. By implementing these tracking features, the companies mentioned avoid disclosing 'real' access to the Government by making it simple and easy to comply with court ordered requests for identifying information, such as the time, date and serial number of the device used to create document X. We are only obliged to hand over that much. Imagine NOT being able to give it over easily and then having to allow spooks in to go though your sales history and shipping details for a period deemed neccesary by the courts! Which do you think is the better option?

      You can either;

      a) try to make it impossible to copy or otherwise produce (paper) money and other financial instruments such as postage stamps or bonds, which is both technically difficult to implement and probably trivial to circumvent, or
      b) not bother trying to block what you know (some) people are going to do and provide a mechanism to aid a criminal investigation while protecting that mechanisms data payload with a secondary level of encryption in its own right.

      We've been doing option b) for at least 15 years.

      Full Disclosure: I work for Xerox.

      And tracking location? Puh-lease, when was the last time you bought a printer that had a GPS device installed?!

      --
      Dan. -- So what if it's spelt wrong, nobody's perfect
    163. Re:What's the problem? by Dan+B. · · Score: 1

      The convincing argument for me is this - The reason given for doing this was to stop counterfits. However printing quality out of those printers is no where near enough to fool idiots down the street. What other reason is there then, other that to track the local people?

      Maybe you out to check the quality of money in countries other than your own. Maybe you should also check the quality of laser printing at 2400x2400 dpi, or what constitutes a financial instrument.

      No one is 'tracking' anything. Billions of pages are printed each day with micro dots, and its only when the law requires that they be 'identified' that they are, and there is a slew of privacy regulations that need to be adhered to.

      Didn't this microdot beat up consiracy theory article also get a run a couple of years ago?

      --
      Dan. -- So what if it's spelt wrong, nobody's perfect
    164. Re:What's the problem? by steelfood · · Score: 1

      Half these people can't even give you a history of their own country. For the most part, they are barely literate.

      For such people, since these things did not directly happen to them, they can't even begin to conceive of what you describe.

      --
      "If a nation expects to be ignorant and free in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be."
    165. Re:What's the problem? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Makes one wonder what is the motivation for the person or people making the decisions at these companies to do this. Why would they all be complicit in helping law enforcement? I doubt customers and stockholders would be angered if you refused to participate in a program that is not your business and does not benefit them. I'll bet there is more to this story.

    166. Re:What's the problem? by einhverfr · · Score: 1

      There is a great deal to learn from history. We might not always be able to avoid the hard lessons, but the easy lessons (i.e. what has worked) is far more productive anyway. And I think technology changes things less than you might think.... The technology is different but the human needs are the same, and the human flaws too.....

      --

      LedgerSMB: Open source Accounting/ERP
    167. Re:What's the problem? by fatphil · · Score: 1

      Given that you can't even enforce the rules of punctuation and capitalisation, I suspect you bound around your "castle" weilding the thighbone of an ox, or similar.

      --
      Also FatPhil on SoylentNews, id 863
    168. Re:What's the problem? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I wish I could recall the brand but I seem to remember walking through a Staples or Office Depot recently that had ads up indicating that some of the color printers only used black ink for black production to save ink usage. So I wonder if they were lying?

    169. Re:What's the problem? by doccus · · Score: 1

      ....Generally speaking, tracing a serial number will get it to the store that sold it to me and not much further...

      Uh.. no..unless you pay cash.. and cash is on it's way out.. most larger items are ALWAYS bought via interact or credit cards, and at the very least, all stores keep records of customer's purchases for customer service reasons.. the fact is, if they've got the serial of the machine.. they've for sure nailed the owner that purchased it NEW... unless lept secret, the "dot" idea is ludicrous on the face of it, and simply an easy out to avoid further hassle from the law.. as no criminal worth calling one that (except perhaps those on "America's stupidest criminals") would volunteer their name and address, as well as the serial of the machine they intend to break the law with, unless they *didn't know* about these dots..

    170. Re:What's the problem? by fatphil · · Score: 1

      > Do you really think we could get away with letting the driver communicate back to the outside world with that much data and not have it all over the news?

      Other companies have. Look at the recent mobile phone privacy scares, for example (sometimes where every button press has been recorded and transmitted).

      --
      Also FatPhil on SoylentNews, id 863
    171. Re:What's the problem? by toddestan · · Score: 1

      They might have been referring to inkjets, some of which have an annoying tendency to make black by mixing the color inks together instead of using the black cartridge.

    172. Re:What's the problem? by darkonc · · Score: 1
      Not really. If they're trying to solve a crime, they only need to narrow it down to few thousand people. Then they figure out that the the ransom letter was printed on an HP superjet model 238234 and only 2 of their potential perps have that model. Now all they have to do is get a print sample from you, or exercise a search warrant to seize your printer and check the serial number.

      This all, of course, presumes that you haven't just had your printer warranty (and thus serial #) registered (either by you or the store you bought it from).

      --
      Sometimes boldness is in fashion. Sometimes only the brave will be bold.
    173. Re:What's the problem? by ToddInSF · · Score: 1

      It isn't about "claiming predictive powers", it's about simply learning from history.

      Though, admittedly, if one utterly lacks all imagination and pattern recognition, studying history is not going to help make up for their shortcomings...

    174. Re:What's the problem? by ToddInSF · · Score: 1

      Even if you don't care weather "law enforcement/the government" uses the tags specific to your printer, what about the obvious potential for other entities utilizing it for their nefarious purposes ?

      FOIA requests - really ? They make you feel more comfortable ? Really ? The "information" the government chooses to let you have when and if they want you to have it makes you feel good ? Your little "real world" of "pretty detailed information about what the government is doing" strikes me as naive at best, and insane at worst.

      You must be able to read the stuff that's int he black lines int he documents "the government" has so generously supplied.

      Industry working to assist the government to subvert privacy is the issue.

      And while government is supposed to at least tell you when it's taking away your liberty, industry that expects you to buy their products have an obligation to tell you that they've tampered with your device and made it possible to track everything you print back to you, not just by the government, but by ANY asshole that cares so little about privacy.

      Creating more security loopholes for the private citizen isn't what government is telling us they're doing all this shit for. Yet it's exactly what's going on.

    175. Re:What's the problem? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I ONLY run discarded technology. I dumpster dive, or get donated computers and printers, from folks moving away. Some stuff comes from Goodwill, yeah.

      Funny, they classify things as Household goods, clothing, toys, electronics. and go no further in their description of the items.

      GNU/Linux runs fast and fine, on 2005 AMD 64 technology, or old Intel P4 HyperThreading 32/64 bit units, for all my needs!

        If I could tone down the noise levels on my stack of donated Xeon servers, they would do fine, also, on my home network!

      There is a rack on wheels, in the garage, and all my network is home run to access point out there... and, have installed a window AC unit... any day now, it will
      become my server room...

    176. Re:What's the problem? by nobaloney · · Score: 1

      Most modern photocopiers scan to a hard drive before printing.

      So how much is my old printer/copier worth? You know, that old HP monochrome laserjet with the snap-on pass-through copier on the front?

    177. Re:What's the problem? by tibit · · Score: 1

      But you have precisely skirted the issue. History is a collection of facts. Claiming that you can make predictions based on those facts requires something more than a mere assertion. Sciences in general collect facts and then make theories as explanation of facts. Those allow us to make predictions. Since history doesn't offer theories, your claim that one "simply learns from history" is a semicircular tautology: yeah, history is a bunch of facts, and like any bunch of facts, you can learn it. That still doesn't mean you can use those to predict anything -- IOW, it doesn't make you any more able to apply this knowledge in any way.

      As soon as you claim that there are some ways of using "imagination and pattern recognition", you need to be very careful because, you know, those need to be reproducible in controlled conditions. I posit that historical facts are entirely useless as presented in usual study of history, because there are absolutely no sound methods given to use such facts, predictably and reliably, in any sort of forward-looking way. That's it.

      History is an interesting art and I don't claim otherwise, but just like someone may dislike the art of painting and usually it doesn't get one looked down upon, same freedom of choice should apply to a dislike of history, without the silly implication that it makes you dumber somehow (it's implied all over the place in this and other threads). I also don't claim that facts that historians have collected cannot be used in some sort of reasoning, but that falls very short of the oft repeated claim that "those who don't learn from history are bound to repeat it". The latter claim is that you use historical facts to predict possible outcomes and to modify your behavior. For this claim to hold any water, I'd like to see some studies. Otherwise it's bullshit in the same category as homeopathy. I mean, if it's so obviously clear, then why can no one show, in a controlled fashion, that it is in fact so? Where is the damn catch?

      --
      A successful API design takes a mixture of software design and pedagogy.
    178. Re:What's the problem? by ToddInSF · · Score: 1

      I did not "skirt" anything.

      History, like everything, is MUCH more than "a collection of facts".

      You insist that a claim has been made, specifically, a claim that predictions can be made based on "the facts of history". I made no such claim, so the rest of your remarks are just you arguing with yourself (poorly).

      You claim that I need to be very careful about "imagination and pattern recognition", and that somehow I need to do some sort of a double blind controlled study to gain any insight. I don't know what else to say than you are simply wrong.

      Dismissing history as "art", and pretending that you are somehow above it, because you seem to think of yourself as "scientific", is absurd.

      Equating history to homeopathy was really the most perfect way you could end your remarks.

      Demanding studies to support a claim based on assumptions and presumptions that only you've made is not something that interests me at all.

    179. Re:What's the problem? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "True, but most aren't given public IP addresses (any many aren't even given access out the firewall to try and figure out the public address)"

      Bullshit. Most printers fit into one of these categories:
      1. Home users on the local network. These networks allow access to anything from anything on any port 99% of the time.
      2. Printer is placed on a corporate LAN, meaning it likely has the same access as every other device on the corporate LAN. Most of the time this means at least web browsing ports like 80/443, and likely others.

      The printer also doesn't have to know a thing about its public IP address. It just needs to phone home and send its S/N. By simply doing that, the mfr can store the IP the call came from (which will originate from a router or firewall regardless of the printer's internal IP) and perform later geolocation on it.

    180. Re:What's the problem? by Geminii · · Score: 1

      Four feet from you. And you need a haircut.

    181. Re:What's the problem? by badkarmadayaccount · · Score: 1

      Molotov cocktail out the window.

      --
      I know tobacco is bad for you, so I smoke weed with crack.
    182. Re:What's the problem? by PyroMosh · · Score: 1

      Geolocation is trivial for internet connected devices. It's not precise. But it works pretty well. I live outside Trenton, New Jersey. I know that when I see geo-targeted ads online, they're targeted at my area. Even if I'm on a fresh device that isn't signed into a google account, and doesn't have cookies on it yet. It's all done via the ISP.

      The technology is never precise and it's not always accurate. But it's accurate more often than not, and finding forged notes with a code that says "Philadelphia Region" is at least a starting point for investigators.

  3. Yay! I have a Lexmark! by erroneus · · Score: 5, Informative

    Great to know my printer maker isn't on the list.

  4. yellow visible in blue light? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yellow dots only visible under blue light? I'm guessing that the term 'black light' should be in place here.

    1. Re:yellow visible in blue light? by Farmer+Tim · · Score: 1

      The white paper reflects blue light while the yellow ink doesn't, so the dots would appear darker. Both ink and paper could fluoresce under UV, which would probably reduce contrast and make the dots harder to spot.

      --
      Blank until /. makes another boneheaded UI decision.
  5. yellow dots?? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I was just wondering how they are putting yellow dots on the page with a monochrome laser printer?
    Secret ink supplies?

    1. Re:yellow dots?? by Bardwick · · Score: 2

      Can't print green money on a B/W printer..

  6. Re:Yay! I have a Lexmark! by datapharmer · · Score: 5, Funny

    No worries, lexmark print quality is so horrid and their printers so unreliable who in their right mind would actually try to counterfeit anything using one?

    --
    Get a web developer
  7. A work around? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So all I have to do to avoid this is just print in black and white? :s

    1. Re:A work around? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The tiny, yellow dots — less than a millimeter each — are printed in a pattern over each page and are only viewable with a blue light, a magnifying glass or a microscope.

      Yeah - way ahead of you.

      I knocking off some B&W $100 Bills right now.

      Bwahahahahahah!

      My intellect is way beyond those Government stooges! I may even get an article about me posted on Fark with that tag for brilliance named after that French Philosopher/Mathematician - "Dumbass" that's "Monsieur Dumbass de Nemours"

      I will go down as the genius to outmanoeuvre and masturbate the Secret Service!

  8. I don't think my HPLJ4 has this problem. by John+Hasler · · Score: 0

    n/t

    --
    Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.
  9. EPSON's not on the list? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Interesting. No tracking, and the piezoelectic printheads are suitable for directly handling biological cells.

  10. Who Cares? by shawnhcorey · · Score: 1

    I've stopped using printers years ago. They're simply not needed anymore. Who cares if the US government is using them to secretly spy on you?

    --
    Don't stop where the ink does.
  11. Fix. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Add a very faint yellow gradient to your image.

  12. Top reasons for surveillance by dragisha · · Score: 3, Insightful

    1) To find child pornographers
    2) To find money counterfeiters ....

    So, every 1,000,000th computer user is 1), and probably every 10,000,000th is 2).. Or something like. Nothing bad, I would propose much stricter sentencing for 1), and let authorities eat 2) for breakfast, and so on... But... 1) and 2) are probably verrry aware of methods used so only guaranteed effect is: surveillance and control of rest of us.

    We (the rest) are just collateral damage - freedom here and freedom there is lost...

    Nothing new here... :)

    As for printer companies - Every single one not on this list is just temporarily off it. Why would they decline request like that from government? At least for printer sold in some country, it's only normal to expect its government to impose such request onto company willing to sell it's wares. While this situation is very similar to old reasoning for cryptography for our emails, I really don't see why it would be a problem to me if papers I produce are traceable by government? A lot of my writing is already in circulation so they also have many other ways to match my papers to me :).

    --
    http://opencm3.net, http://www.nongnu.org/gm2/
    1. Re:Top reasons for surveillance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      "recommended sentences for looking at pictures of children being sexually abused sometimes eclipse those for actually sexually abusing a child"
      http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/22/nyregion/22judge.html?pagewanted=all

      I'm just going to leave this here...

    2. Re:Top reasons for surveillance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      1) To find child pornographers
      2) To find money counterfeiters ....

      So, every 1,000,000th computer user is 1), and probably every 10,000,000th is 2).. Or something like.

      If you've ever spent any time crawling around on the underbelly of the Internet, you would know that these numbers are way, WAY too low. Only 300 child pornographers in the US?? Give me a break.

  13. How much you wanna bet by Compaqt · · Score: 2

    it was just a "voluntary" request for cooperation.

    (That means they had good old Joe Lieberman call up the company and "ask" them to print teh dots.)

    --
    I'm not a lawyer, but I play one on the Internet. Blog
    1. Re:How much you wanna bet by sco08y · · Score: 1

      it was just a "voluntary" request for cooperation.

      (That means they had good old Joe Lieberman call up the company and "ask" them to print teh dots.)

      If Slow Joe had made the call, there would be dots, then some stripes, a nice bit of plaid here and there, and probably the wallpaper pattern from his Aunt Lizzie's place in the 70s. Boy, let me tell you about Aunt Lizzie, she made the best apple pie...

  14. um... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    so, wait...what printer makers didn't cooperate? lol.

    1. Re:um... by zill · · Score: 5, Informative

      Here's a partial list:

      lexmark
      Kodak
      TVS Electronics
      WeP
      PENTAX
      Planon
      prolink
      Olivetti
      Epson
      Lenovo
      OKI
      Panasonic
      Dell
      Samsung
      Kyocera

      Someone already made the bad printing quality joke so I won't bore you with it again.

    2. Re:um... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just group-source the reverse engineering of the firmware of each printer model, and post the changes online and create a patched version. Lots of work.. worth it? Who knows.

      But keep in mind, it's not just printers -- software packages like Adobe Photoshop have similar functionality.

    3. Re:um... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Epson is the only one on that list with (sometimes) decent printers.

    4. Re:um... by imjustmatthew · · Score: 2

      Do all of those companies actually manufacture their own printers? I thought Dell just re-branded other printers.

    5. Re:um... by evilviper · · Score: 1

      It's a shame Brother cooperated, they were initially hold-outs, but now I go out of my way to avoid them.

      However, we've still got Samsung, and they're generally the best & cheapest options across the board, anyhow.

      Everyone go out and by a CLP-325W now... (Only that specific model, otherwise you don't get PCL-5 support). It's only $150USD shipped, and the early bugs in the firmware have been worked-out.

      http://3btech.net/sacl80wicola.html

      --
      Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
    6. Re:um... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In the case of Lexmark, it's more a case of the counterfeiters not wanting to bother with unreliable hardware.

  15. So this is why my ink runs out so fast! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    So this is why my ink runs out so fast! Those dots are wasting my ink! I didn't authroize this use of my equipment! There should be disclaimers stating that the 500 pages that can be printed 2 of those pages of ink is used up just for the tracking!

    1. Re:So this is why my ink runs out so fast! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Or more exaclty why my printer refuse to print black and white pages because the yellow cartridge is empty.

  16. Another victory for democracy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Dictators and totalitarian regimes can now use that technology to identify the printers used by dissenters to print underground papers critisizing the current political regimes. Another victory for free speach in the world.

  17. Magic GPS? by mehrotra.akash · · Score: 2

    Are printers coming with Magical GPS systems now?
    Cause last I checked, GPS doesnt work indoors, and a GPS system costs more than the price of an entry level printer
    And, without GPS, how do they plan to get your location?
    Also, where does the printer get an accurate time reading from, and how do you link a serial number to a person unless they take the printer in for servicing, or purchased it using their own credit card

    1. Re:Magic GPS? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      GPS works just fine in my second storey office. My NTP stratum-1 server is a bit dependent on that.

  18. Interesting by dangle · · Score: 1

    Because I've been wondering for a while why the yellow ink was always disappearing faster than the other colors on our printers, I wonder if this accounts for some of the loss?

    1. Re:Interesting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This would be my only objection, I paid for that ink!

      Perhaps if the printer detected roughly proportional color quantities to that of bank notes, then print the dots.

    2. Re:Interesting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It uses yellow the most because yellow is the primary mixer to make most other colours.

    3. Re:Interesting by jawtheshark · · Score: 1

      I knew about these dots and I was not all that surprised when I bought my Ricoh Aficio CL2000N that the yellow and black cartridges were larger than the cyan and magenta cartridges.

      --
      Ahhh...the great dumpster continuum. Many a free computer will be found there. -- sowth (748135)
    4. Re:Interesting by Rick17JJ · · Score: 1

      The need for yellow ink would probably also explain why when one of the color cartridges runs out on the printer at work, the printer will refuse to print in black-and-white. Presumably, they would need the yellow cartridge to print the yellow microdots on the black-and-white documents. That is on a Hewlett-Packard combination printer/copy/fax machine.

      Since 99% of what I print at work is in black-and-white, it is quite annoying to suddenly have it quit working when it suddenly says that it just ran out of one of the three colors. I then have to take an hour of my time to drive into town and back to go get that particular color ink cartridge.

      That same printer, will also not allow me to even try to print on an ink cartridge that is starting to run empty. They probably do not want to risk not having the microdots not show up clearly.

      The older Hewlett-Packard printers that I had used at home and at work, in the past, would all allow me to continue printing in black-and-white or color, when the color cartridge was empty or starting to run out. Until now, it never occurred to me that it might because of the needed to print yellow microdots, as a tracking device.

    5. Re:Interesting by dangle · · Score: 1

      I'm feeling a scene from Office Space coming on...

  19. So steal the printer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Toss it in some random dumpster after printing some large but not giant amount of "cash."

    Repeat.

    Seems fairly obvious.

  20. What? by Rydia · · Score: 2, Funny

    Really? This is cause for outrage? The insane idea that the government might look at something you wrote and hunt you down using a printer serial number and some possible registration information? This isn't a "the innocent have nothing to hide" argument, this is a "any government agency that actually used this for anything other than the stated purpose is insane" argument. There are hundreds of far more efficient, reliable and accurate ways to figure out who you are and what you have been up to.

    Reading through the comments, about how your printer is going to betray you when the fascist power grab comes, it is abundantly clear that a sizable portion of slashdotters enjoy nothing more than working themselves up by finding whatever scant excuse to go on hyperbolic rants about how the government is just waiting to come and take them away to gitmo, and that the only way to avoid this is to compete to see who is the most paranoid.

    The sad thing is when the government DOES overstep its bounds and quash our freedoms, these people will have negative credibility because everyone else know that, to them, everything is a sinister government plot.

    1. Re:What? by Loosifur · · Score: 0

      ...you must be new here.

      --
      This unbiased moderation brought to you by the Porcine Aviation Group!
    2. Re:What? by iggymanz · · Score: 1

      news for you, asshole, the fascist power grab already happened. too bad you missed it.

  21. good thing im cheap! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    2 or 3 years ago, when circuit city was going belly up, I nabbed a Samsung clp310/315 (I forget wchich for under $100 when other stores were over $180. Decent color laser for the price, but now that I know it can "make you money back" it ends up being a fantastic device! (Better than any of the make money back credit cards!)

  22. Certainly not microscopic by kccricket · · Score: 5, Informative

    I've worked rather extensively with a Xerox DocuColor 252 over the last four years. Those yellow dots are anything but microscopic. I could plainly see the dots on most printouts under standard office-style fluorescent lighting. They always bugged the crap out of me.

    --
    * chirp * chirp *
    1. Re:Certainly not microscopic by chrb · · Score: 5, Informative

      http://w2.eff.org/Privacy/printers/docucolor/ has some magnified images. At 10x zoom I would guess the diameter is about 1mm, so maybe 0.1mm for the original dots...

    2. Re:Certainly not microscopic by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 1

      They always bugged the crap out of me.

      I just wonder what happens if you complement the pattern to a nice, regular grid by having a complementary pattern in your document...

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    3. Re:Certainly not microscopic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I agree, I failed to mention that in my comments, I have used Docucolor and Canon Color production printers. The dots are not that hard to find once you know where to look.

    4. Re:Certainly not microscopic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The dots from a DocuColor 240/242/250/252/260 are clearly visible under normal office lighting if you tilt the page. Also, the device serial number is stored in 2-3 different pieces of firmware, depending on device, which have to be synchronized if one breaks, or the device will not function.

  23. Defective by design by fibonacci8 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    This probably helps explain why so many customers have brought printers to me complaining of the defect where B&W print jobs do not print when the color cartidge gets low.

    --
    Inheritance is the sincerest form of nepotism.
    1. Re:Defective by design by jader3rd · · Score: 1

      This probably helps explain why so many customers have brought printers to me complaining of the defect where B&W print jobs do not print when the color cartidge gets low.

      Black and White print jobs will use blue ink. My perfectionist mother can't tolerate printing documents when the blue ink is empty, because the black isn't black enough.

    2. Re:Defective by design by darkonc · · Score: 1

      I have seen at least one model of HP printer that asks you if you want to continue with printing in black and white when my colour cartridge runs out. Pleasant thing, that. Silly thing is that, if you have no yellow ink you won't be able to do a decent counterfeit job (especially here in Canada, where multi-colour money has been the norm for decades).

      --
      Sometimes boldness is in fashion. Sometimes only the brave will be bold.
  24. Re:Interesting? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Dude - that's because of all that Simpsons porn you print.

  25. Just buy a used printer off craigslist by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Just buy a used printer off craigslist. No one will know you have it.

    1. Re:Just buy a used printer off craigslist by Skapare · · Score: 1

      Buy one that has run out of yellow ink.

      --
      now we need to go OSS in diesel cars
  26. Note to self. by sgt+scrub · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Never buy a used printer.

    --
    Having to work for a living is the root of all evil.
    1. Re:Note to self. by Adam+Appel · · Score: 2

      Or, um, ALWAYS buy a used printer.

      --
      They come in the dark, only in the darkest.
    2. Re:Note to self. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or a new printer.

      Solution:... build... your own printer?

  27. Government Dots ;o) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Everything is dots!
    Connect the dots!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s3__ssxTvNc

  28. Samizdat by anwaya · · Score: 2

    One of the things a fully developed police state needs to be able to do is control the flow of all information. You need a mechanism that can be used to identify who has been producing physical copies of banned works - say, a play by Vaclav Havel, or a copy of The Master and Margarita - so that you can lock them up.

    What these printer companies have done, by collaborating with the US in this way, is to make it easier for police states to monitor and control the physical flow of information.

  29. Can anyone ... by Rambo+Tribble · · Score: 1

    ... suggest a good utility for printing additional, obfuscating dots?

    1. Re:Can anyone ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just always use yellow as a background color.

    2. Re:Can anyone ... by Skapare · · Score: 1

      The codes are printed where the printer knows no yellow is. But printing a solid yellow background will help ... by running the printer out of yellow ink.

      --
      now we need to go OSS in diesel cars
    3. Re:Can anyone ... by Rambo+Tribble · · Score: 1

      It occurs that if you run the sheet, printing a single pixel, through the printer once and then reverse it for the actual print run, the resulting sheet should be sufficiently obfuscated.

    4. Re:Can anyone ... by darkonc · · Score: 1

      Then printing occasional yellow dots should be exactly what the doctor ordered,

      --
      Sometimes boldness is in fashion. Sometimes only the brave will be bold.
  30. Seems the EFF is scared by pcjunky · · Score: 1

    Seems EFF got scared and took down the material on this matter from there website. None of the article links to EFF work.

    1. Re:Seems the EFF is scared by fatphil · · Score: 1

      If anyone has balls of steel in the face of the building police state, the EFF probably do - so there's stuff like this still up: http://w2.eff.org/Privacy/printers/docucolor/

      --
      Also FatPhil on SoylentNews, id 863
  31. If the government really wanted to get to you... by Streetlight · · Score: 2

    It was alleged that during one of the Gulf Wars, the US had modified printers sold to Iraq with some kind of location device allowing cruise missiles to find their target. I assume this was some kind of radio transmitter that identified what Iraqi government department had purchased the printer. I'm also guessing that the device probably cost a lot more than the printer. It has just recently been noted in the news that in the US pilotless drones will be allowed to fly presumably looking for bad guys. I think folks may have more to worry about than yellow dots on printer output. It's been known that military ordinance sometimes hits the wrong target, so beware.

    --
    In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell
  32. How does it work? by Paulvdh · · Score: 1

    I have two questions: 1) Does the printer do this by itself, or is it the driver? 2) My printer has no separate yellow tank for printing these dots, so is it the normal yellow ink that requires blue light to be visible? What if I use 3rd party ink (apart from voiding warranty)?

  33. Always running out of yellow ink by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The PROBLEM is that my printer refuses to print a simple page of (monochrome) text until I buy a new yellow ink cartridge. The other problem is that the yellow ink cartridge keeps running dry sooner than the other colors.

    And I am one of the "lucky" ones who paid enough for a printer that when the yellow ink runs out I do not have to throw out a bunch of other ink.

    Imagine if the govt got car manufacturers to spray unique gasoline patterns on the ground every 500 ft using. That would be really handy for tracking criminal activity, but wouldn't you be ticked off that they are making you waste your expensive gas for that? And ink is many times more expensive than gas.

  34. Yeah. Except. by Greyfox · · Score: 1

    IBM and Lexmark usually just put their brand name on some other printer. The color ones were Ricoh printers for a while. IIRC, IBM spun off a chunk of their printing systems division with Ricoh a couple years ago. They're just down the road here.

    --

    I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?

  35. Re:Yay! I have a Lexmark! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "Yay! I have a Lexmark!" I think we can safely say that this is the first time anyone has ever said these words...

  36. Read the what the EFF wrote! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Consider the ramifications of this technology. This technology can be used for political and religous persecution. To quote the EFF:

    "Underground democracy movements that produce political or religious pamphlets and flyers, like the Russian samizdat of the 1980s, will always need the anonymity of simple paper documents, but this technology makes it easier for governments to find dissenters," said EFF Senior Staff Attorney Lee Tien. "Even worse, it shows how the government and private industry make backroom deals to weaken our privacy by compromising everyday equipment like printers. The logical next question is: what other deals have been or are being made to ensure that our technology rats on us?"

    https://www.eff.org/press/archives/2005/10/16

    Based on this list of printers:

    https://www.eff.org/pages/list-printers-which-do-or-do-not-display-tracking-dots

    The only safe color lasers are OKI (okiData) and Samsung.

  37. Printers are disposably cheap anyway by American+Patent+Guy · · Score: 1

    The solution to this is trivial. If I'm a counterfeiter and I don't want to be traced, then I buy a printer with cash and throw it away after a short time. The manufacturers set the price of ink/toner refills so high, the counterfeiter would logically do this at the time the printer ran out. Oh, and the cost to the counterfeiter is 0 if they print the cash to buy successive printers. So long as they don't buy a printer twice from the same store and don't reveal their IDs at the time of purchase (say, for a "warranty"), I don't see how they're going to get caught. Have you noticed that the manufacturers are printing the serial number on the box these days, and that stores scan them at the time of purchase? I wonder why...

  38. Lets get this over with by safetyinnumbers · · Score: 1

    Okay to save you the trouble: I have a Canon printer, it's IP address is 192.168.1.68, and it's over there on my desk.

  39. Re:Yay! I have a Lexmark! by ISoldat53 · · Score: 1

    Neither is my Kodak. But that would explain why it has to have color ink when I never use color. It has no way to turn color printing off. I suspect the need to print yellow dots is the reason. Or is that my paranoia talking?

  40. Parent is right by Kupfernigk · · Score: 1

    It is a real PITA to print management companies that the manufacturers do not provide the equivalent of a VIN. The serial number read by programs like PrintAudit is not necessarily the same as the brass tag, and HP are known to release evaluation printers with a serial of XXXXXX. We would actually prefer MORE traceability, not to catch dissidents but to reduce theft.

    --
    From scarped cliff or quarried stone she cries "A thousand types are gone, I care for nothing, no not one."
    1. Re:Parent is right by YttriumOxide · · Score: 1

      It is a real PITA to print management companies that the manufacturers do not provide the equivalent of a VIN. The serial number read by programs like PrintAudit is not necessarily the same as the brass tag, and HP are known to release evaluation printers with a serial of XXXXXX. We would actually prefer MORE traceability, not to catch dissidents but to reduce theft.

      As far as I recall, PrintAudit reads the serial number from the MIB. So yeh, on Konica Minolta devices at least (and probably almost every other manufacturer) this'd be the electronically programmed one. I don't know of any manufacturers that do provide a hardware tag of any kind. The MAC address of the NIC would be reasonable in a lot of cases, but still isn't 100% reliable.

      Of course, if I were interested in stealing devices, I'd definitely monitor network traffic and if I saw the S/N was being read by something like PrintAudit, I'd just spoof some replies to mess things up for a while before taking the machine (and maybe even leave behind a small box running somewhere giving MIB replies as if the device was still there just to make pinpointing the moment of theft more difficult when it was discovered).

      SNMP is way too insecure to consider PrintAudit or similar useful as theft prevention. It's a GREAT tool for reporting on device usage and determining optimisations, but I'd be doubtful about using it (or any tool that works in a similar way (which is all of them AFAIK)) beyond these core tasks.

      --
      My book about LSD and Self-Discovery
      Also on facebook as: DroppingAcidDaleBewan
    2. Re:Parent is right by ArsenneLupin · · Score: 1

      Of course, if I were interested in stealing devices, I'd definitely monitor network traffic and if I saw the S/N was being read by something like PrintAudit, I'd just spoof some replies to mess things up for a while before taking the machine (and maybe even leave behind a small box running somewhere giving MIB replies as if the device was still there just to make pinpointing the moment of theft more difficult when it was discovered).

      A, so that's what those delicious raspberry pies are made for :-)

  41. An Old Dispute by glorybe · · Score: 1, Interesting

    I took a lot of crap when I mentioned several years ago that some sort of GPS like circuits existed within printers and probably many computers as well. But this article confirms it. If a printer gives its location it must know its location. Sometimes as in the Iraq war certain printers simply existing was enough to get a smart bomb delivered suddenly. The reason was that some printers and computers are expensive and not normally purchased except by governments or powerful companies. Running a major company or any governmental office was enough to earn that smart bomb. That goes back to Desert Storm and is not a recent development. Obviously if you go to a store and pay cash for a printer the store nor the manufacturer does not have your address unless the device can get the information on its own. I predict that some operating systems and also some encryption software is government sponsored in such a way that they have a handy back door into everything done on a PC.

    1. Re:An Old Dispute by gandhi_2 · · Score: 1

      it really confirms nothing.

      first off. before they are installed, the machines are usually OFF, and in boxes, stacked in the backs of trucks. not much GPS reception there.

      then when you want to install them, they are usually in buildings. not much GPS reception there.

      it is more likely going to try to get some data from the computer it is connected to.... or it really doesn't know where it is.

    2. Re:An Old Dispute by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      research:

      ham radio protocols in almost every Linux distro, also included on LiveCD

      ham radio protocols used with network cards, sound cards, etc. without the need for external ham hardware

      build essentials, dpkg-dev, isdn, and python/perl with compile and clean and other apps installed on many Linux LiveCDs, why do they need build tools for a LiveCD, ham radio modules and a ton of other questionable and often unlabeled modules?

      subversion hack archive -- google it

      there's much more to modern computers than most understand

      bundled hw components you can't remove from the mobo, like but not limited to nic, [soft] modem, graphics chip, and more, some linux live cds loading modules for these even when you disable bios support for them and disable plug n play

      and more

      leave your cpu on long enough, monitor it with the right monitoring tools, and even disconnected from local and internet, IT WILL GENERATE MYSTERIOUS TRAFFIC.

  42. WHo needs yellow, anyway by Skapare · · Score: 1

    Kill the yellow channel on the color inks. If your printer uses separate black ink, just leave the color out. If all else fails, print a lot of pages of all-yellow on the same set of several sheets until the yellow ink runs out.

    --
    now we need to go OSS in diesel cars
    1. Re:WHo needs yellow, anyway by drussell · · Score: 1

      Kill the yellow channel on the color inks. If your printer uses separate black ink, just leave the color out. If all else fails, print a lot of pages of all-yellow on the same set of several sheets until the yellow ink runs out.

      Except that once you are out of yellow ink, it will refuse to print anything until you add more yellow!

  43. I only have by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    a black and white laser, does that mean I don't get to play?

  44. Re:Yay! I have a Lexmark! by erroneus · · Score: 3, Insightful

    No, not paranoia... It's the fact that printer ink is the most valuable liquid in the world.

    http://boingboing.net/2009/12/30/graph-compares-price.html

    More valuable than blood and definitely more valuable than crude oil, let alone gasoline.

    People ask "what to the printer makers get for their complicity?" More ink and toner sales of course.

  45. against the law (shakes fist) by KingAlanI · · Score: 4, Informative

    There's a US law that forbids melting down pennies and nickels, or exporting them in large quantities.
    (The penny was changed to copper-plated zinc in mid-1982; 95% copper pennies from before then are also worth above their face value in metal.)

    USC Title 31 Section 5111 subsection D (http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/31/5111) gives the Secretary of the Treasury the option, http://www.usmint.gov/pressroom/?action=press_release&ID=724 is about that option being used.

    PS
    Many silver coins are just worth their metal value, and those are often melted down.

    --
    I listen to both RIAA and non-RIAA stuff if I like the music, tangential business/politics nonwithstanding.
    1. Re:against the law (shakes fist) by GameboyRMH · · Score: 1

      A few times I've seen machines in US truck stops and tourist traps (I'm pretty sure I've seen a few in Canada as well) that press pennies into novelty coins. Aren't these illegal?

      --
      "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
    2. Re:against the law (shakes fist) by QuasiSteve · · Score: 1
    3. Re:against the law (shakes fist) by Hognoxious · · Score: 2

      Are you sure those machines work the way you think they work?

      Pretty much. The mechanism's in a transparent box. You can see your coin drop down and go through the rollers. That's half the fun.

      Maybe you're just buying a pre-made novelty coin for a penny.

      Maybe commenting on something that you've obviously never seen and know nothing about is just totally fucking retarded. And arrogant.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    4. Re:against the law (shakes fist) by KingAlanI · · Score: 1

      they're legal, but not sure if it would be legal or economical to buy one and use it as an intermediary step in melting them for copper

      --
      I listen to both RIAA and non-RIAA stuff if I like the music, tangential business/politics nonwithstanding.
  46. Don't refill the yellow, duh. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Don't refill the yellow, duh.

    1. Re:Don't refill the yellow, duh. by zill · · Score: 1

      Lots of printers will refuse to print other colors (or even B&W) when the yellow cartridge is empty. Those who work in the printer servicing industry have my sympathies. Most customers probably think it's price gouging scheme.

  47. I read your link, I'd point out a mistake by way2trivial · · Score: 4, Informative

    .. it was the right house
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aiyana_Stanley_Jones

    not saying there weren't multiple fuckups on the parts of law enforcement,
      (there most assuredly were from what I read)
        but there is a small sliver of 'reap what ya sow' in all that went on there, father included.......

    --
    every day http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Random
  48. used printer. by ClioCJS · · Score: 2

    so buy your printers used. not a big deal. Preferably, buy them used from your political enemies, so anything bad traces back to *them*.

    --
    -Clio
    Karma: Bad (mostly from not giving a fuck)
    Blog: http://clintjcl.wordpress.com
    1. Re:used printer. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That works great ... unless you happen to have bought the printer unknowingly from a child porn distributor or counterfeiter.

    2. Re:used printer. by ClioCJS · · Score: 1

      Do you understand the concept of used? The government has no idea who buys something at a yard sale at my house. Anything bought in cash - good luck tracking that. Doesn't matter if I bought it from Satan himself - if it's at a yard sale, or even (to a lesser extent, depending on the individual's fastidiousness to e-privacy) on craigslist -- nobody's gonna know it was me.

      --
      -Clio
      Karma: Bad (mostly from not giving a fuck)
      Blog: http://clintjcl.wordpress.com
    3. Re:used printer. by toddestan · · Score: 1

      Just don't do something stupid like print out your tax return forms on your used printer and mail them to the IRS.

  49. What's the real drawback for me? by Theovon · · Score: 1

    Since I'm not counterfeiting money, is this something that should be of concern to me? It sounds like there's some invisible info printed there. Say I printed something and then handed that to a nefarous person. Would they be able to look under a microscope and find easily decodable information that would allow them to steal my identity? Break into my house?

    1. Re:What's the real drawback for me? by darkonc · · Score: 1

      Not just counterfeiting. Supporting Occupy Wall Street, or trying to stop a chemical dump next to your kids' school, or just about anything which angers the powers that be...

      --
      Sometimes boldness is in fashion. Sometimes only the brave will be bold.
  50. Re:Yay! I have a Lexmark! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No, not paranoia... It's the fact that printer ink is the most valuable liquid in the world

    I was under the impression that that title would go to anti-water.

  51. Laser printer?? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Bah, I write my ransom notes the old-fashioned way, cutting letters out of newspapers.

  52. Re:I read your link, I'd point out a mistake by dissy · · Score: 1

    Thank you for the update. Such things generally never make the news as big as the initial few announcements.

    But as you say, there is still plenty wrong with that raid including the shoot first ask later aspects, so my original point still stands.

    Even reading the update, it still seems as fucked up as when initially reported.
    They show the father provided the gun, but that no one knew or even suspected that at the time of the raid.
    The cop that shot the 7 year old had also in the past threatened children with his weapon, including an infant, and shooting family dogs.
    A&E still refuses to release the video evidence of the cover up to anyone.

    But my point is that once you are so much as linked to a crime, they will come in guns blazing and figure out the details later.
    The feds do take counterfeiting money pretty seriously, as in guns drawn seriously.

    Even if this one example wasn't perfect (aka only 3 out of 5 innocent people in the home, instead of 4 out of 5), there are plenty of other examples that are.

    If I sold off my printer or tossed it in a dumpster, I would prefer the feds think of that possibility first instead of simply linking the crime to documents I printed on it long in the past, and bust my door down with guns drawn...

  53. If the government can afford to read my email by kawabago · · Score: 1

    They have too much money!

  54. Yay! I have an Oki! by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

    None of their printers tested produce the dots. Samsung and Oki are the names to look for.

    --
    John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
  55. Re:Yay! I have a Lexmark! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Actually, I think you'll find that bull semen is even more expensive.

    (captcha: flaunted!)

  56. Re:What's the problem? Toner Expense by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You know, my Canon printer is starting to run out of yellow toner.

    This scheme amounts to a tax on me to support it in the cost of pre-exhausted toner resources. That sutff is not cheap.

    At the least, each such manufacturer who does this should automagically double the amount of yellow toner in the system and its refills.

    If they are going to waste the resource, they should have to pay for the resource -wihtout- just charging it back to me.

  57. They had a choice, some even took it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Notice that Epson is blatently not on the list. Any one of the other companies could have likewise had balls. And if they *all* had balls it woudln't have happened at all. Plus, if they'd really been "on the ball" they could have reported or leaked the issue when the strong arm came in.

  58. Re:If the government really wanted to get to you.. by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

    That's pretty much openly acknowledged, so it's a distraction.

    IIRC all the printers we could influence had hidden RF noise generators that could be turned on remotely (software turns a relay into a spark gap generator?). Would only work in an environment like Iraq. Government had money/printers, pretty much nobody else did.

    --
    John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
  59. DocuColor Tracking Dot Decoding Guide by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Back this sh@t up!

    Created by EFF, but now a broken link (one of many) on their site,
    please visit the following url and archive the information presented and copy/paste it around the net:

    http://web.archive.org/web/20061017200758/https://www.eff.org/Privacy/printers/docucolor/

    If THAT link is broken, go here and find it by date:
    http://wayback.archive.org/web/*/https://www.eff.org/Privacy/printers/docucolor/

    I will quote it here but the page contains important images, please share this information before it's LOST forever!

    DocuColor Tracking Dot Decoding Guide

    This guide is part of the Machine Identification Code Technology project. It explains how to read the date, time, and printer serial number from forensic tracking codes in a Xerox DocuColor color laser printout. This information is the result of research by Robert Lee, Seth Schoen, Patrick Murphy, Joel Alwen, and Andrew "bunnie" Huang. We acknowledge the assistance of EFF supporters who have contributed sample printouts to give us material to study. We are still looking for help in this research; we are asking the public to submit test sheets or join the printers mailing list to participate in our reverse engineering efforts.

    The DocuColor series prints a rectangular grid of 15 by 8 miniscule yellow dots on every color page. The same grid is printed repeatedly over the entire page, but the repetitions of the grid are offset slightly from one another so that each grid is separated from the others. The grid is printed parallel to the edges of the page, and the offset of the grid from the edges of the page seems to vary. These dots encode up to 14 7-bit bytes of tracking information, plus row and column parity for error correction. Typically, about four of these bytes were unused (depending on printer model), giving 10 bytes of useful data. Below, we explain how to extract serial number, date, and time from these dots. Following the explanation, we implement the decoding process in an interactive computer program.

    Because of their limited contrast with the background, the forensic dots are not usually visible to the naked eye under white light. They can be made visible by magnification (using a magnifying glass or microscope), or by illuminating the page with blue instead of white light. Pure blue light causes the yellow dots to appear black. It can be helpful to use magnification together with illumination under blue light, although most individuals with good vision will be able to see the dots distinctly using either technique by itself.

    This is an image of the dot grid produced by a Xerox DocuColor 12, magnified 10x and photographed by a Digital Blue QX5 computer microscope under white light. While yellow dots are visible, they are very hard to see. We will need to use a different technique in order to get a better view.

    http://web.archive.org/web/20061017200758im_/https://www.eff.org/Privacy/printers/docucolor/faint2.jpg

    This is an image of a portion of the dot grid under 60x magnification. Now the dots are easy to see, but their overall structure is hard to discern because the microscope field only includes a few dots at a time.

    http://web.archive.org/web/20061017200758im_/https://www.eff.org/Privacy/printers/docucolor/60x.jpg

    This is an image of one repetition of the dot grid from the same Xerox DocuColor 12 page, magnified 10x and photographed by the QX5 microscope under illumination from a Photon blue LED flashlight. Note that the increased contrast under blue light allows us to see the entire dot pattern clearly.

  60. typing machines by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The story reminds me of the days before 1989 in Eastern Europe - in Romania (probably the other countries in the block too) every owner of a typing machine was required by law to provide police samples of typewriting. Of course, every machine was registered, and it was illegal to own an unregistered one.
    The situation in the story is not THAT far, but one may wonder...

  61. Time For A Class Action Lawsuit by ThisIsNotMyHandel · · Score: 0

    Time for a class action lawsuit against HP, ect. I am paying for the ink. If I send a job to the printer I expect to use the ink for that job, not extra stuff that HP doesn't inform me about. Either pay for my ink to do this or remove the "feature".

  62. I see what you did there by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What a waste of yellow toner !

  63. Easy? by ossuary · · Score: 1

    "Easy enough to avoid government dots; just don't buy printers from Canon, Brother, Casio, HP, Konica, Minolta, Mita, Ricoh, Sharp, or Xerox." Hehehehe, you are being facetious by that right? Looks like I will have to stick with clay tablets. :(

    1. Re:Easy? by iggymanz · · Score: 1

      if that doesn't hit your particular model of printer, just make a list of all those with canon engines.

  64. Fraud by nurb432 · · Score: 1

    Hey, they are forcing me to waste in/toner for something that i didn't approve of.

    Sounds like a class action to me.

    --
    ---- Booth was a patriot ----
  65. Obfuscation? by LSDelirious · · Score: 1

    are the dots always in the same locations? If so just take an empty document, print it out on the same pieces of paper through 4-5 different devices until its just a meaningless clusterfuck of yellow dots, then print your document. Even if they could somehow decode individual serial numbers it seems like that would give a decent defense... not that any government agency tracking these dots would give a flying fuck about your rights. The thing that annoys me about this is it seems to imply these printers were designed to print their serial numbers with a finer precision than the document printing capabilities you paid for!

    --
    Slavery is the legal fiction that a person is property; A Corporation is the legal fiction that property is a person.
    1. Re:Obfuscation? by fled · · Score: 1

      Good point! Actually, just print the empty document on the same printer on the same paper 4-5 times as you turn the lead edge each pass, then print the document. Like you said, "a meaningless clusterf**k of yellow dots.

  66. IP Address = Location by Roger+W+Moore · · Score: 1

    The "location" isn't really identified since these devices have no way of knowing their location

    They often have an IP address and that can usually be traced to an approximate location.

    1. Re:IP Address = Location by YttriumOxide · · Score: 1

      The "location" isn't really identified since these devices have no way of knowing their location

      They often have an IP address and that can usually be traced to an approximate location.

      While that's true, I fail to see how it'd get encoded in to the microdots. Do you think the device would regularly query some system online (or contain a reasonably large database and still have to make a query for external IP address) to figure out approximate location and then alter the microdots accordingly?

      As per another post of mine, you give the firmware devs way too much credit... It's also worth keeping in mind that we as a company don't benefit from this, so it's very likely it's implemented in the "simplest" possible way (least number of man-hours development) to appease the govt request and no more.

      --
      My book about LSD and Self-Discovery
      Also on facebook as: DroppingAcidDaleBewan
    2. Re:IP Address = Location by Roger+W+Moore · · Score: 1

      Do you think the device would regularly query some system online...

      No - I expect it encodes the time and IP address directly. From that you can figure out the location later, no need for the printer to do it.

  67. Re:I read your link, I'd point out a mistake by sjames · · Score: 1

    But not for the child. She just got killed by careless cops who didn't really care who they hurt. That's why one of them got convicted of manslaughter.

    To be honest, once an incident like that happens, practically any NEW thing police say about anyone involved is suspect. After all, they dearly want to portray everyone harmed as a bad guy.

  68. Open source drivers? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Are the dots added by the driver or some printer firmware? Are the dots present when using open source software drivers?

  69. Domestic printers only, or exports too? by phorm · · Score: 1

    How about printers from those companies that are exported? I'd imagine that some countries with decent privacy laws might have something to say about this (like Germany, for example).

    1. Re:Domestic printers only, or exports too? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hi
      I bought recently a Xerox 6010N/V in France, this is a nice printer but it prints those f*** yellow dots. I can see them using a magnifying glass

  70. black and white by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I have a question: don't microdots not work when the printer is set to black and white?

  71. What is this thing called Printer? by mdm42 · · Score: 1
    Seriously, who still bothers to own a printer?

    It's been at least 6 or 8 years now since I tossed the last one. Every time I bought a new cartridge for it I ended up printing maybe a page or three, and then discovering that the ink had all dried up on the next occasion I felt a need for hard-copy, usually 8 or 12 months later. I concluded that - given the ridiculous per-page cost of owning a printer - I'm better-off driving down to a local copy shop with the content on a flash stick any time I need to print stuff. My print costs now run to pennies a year, and any Yellow Dots that might or might not get printed on the page can get traced... all the way to Southcape Copies.

    --
    New mod option wanted: -1 DrunkenRambling
  72. These are only on color laser printers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The poster fails to mention this is only on color printers, and many older models did not have the ability to do micro dots, some still can't. Some models instead had US money scanned into the PROM and could recognize it, if it was copied at 100% it would print a warning on it, My office had a Canon do this in the 80s. A Xerox model we had that could not work without phone connection (a very large production printer) sent a notice to some government entity. Lucky for us I worked at a government location at the time that did testing on these technologies. That was also in the 80s.

    I can't say for sure but when I worked on the large production models it was only those big ones that did these kinds of things, desktop laser printers did not, and no B&W laser printers did, or do today either.

    More worrisome to me is that all these printers keep a certain amount of printing in the memory, and like FAX machines that information can be recovered (there are limits on how far due to memory capacity, file sizes amount of graphics on the page , etc.) This is one of the reason why when law enforcement does a seizure they also take all the printers and FAX machines.

    One way to protect yourself if you're printing sensitive information before disposing an old printer is to run a bunch of heavy graphics and line art through the printer. And then trash the drum and rollers if you're really paranoid, but that seems extreme to me.

  73. black and white printing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Doesn't the printer not print microdots when set to black and white?

  74. SERIAL Number ? That's fine by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Find a way to modify the serial number (the hard part), then put a serial number chosen from a printer used by a government entity

  75. Re:Yay! I have a Lexmark! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Neither is my Kodak. But that would explain why it has to have color ink when I never use color. It has no way to turn color printing off.

    HP is on the list and mine prints fine when the color runs dry. I just need to select black ink only when I print. Out of many models, only once did I have an HP that couldn't do this. I wrote them asking how, because I needed them for photo masks. They wrote back and said it couldn't be done. Next driver update, that feature was added. Most printers use color to make black ink look higher resolutions, but we know they're just trying to increase the costs. Crappy inkjet printers aren't the ones the Treasury wants to track.

  76. Finally something I can comment on by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I've worked for Xerox as a tech since the mid 80s and on color products since they came out. Color wasn't feasible until digital technology got good. Laser technology helped a little. The yellow dots go back further than 2005 and so do the "cahoots." Xerox r&d developed color laser tech back in the late 80s and every color device has always made the yellow dot pattern on every piece of paper that passes through them.
    From what I understand, Xerox would financially benefit from color products, but the technology could cause chaos with counterfeiting and the U.S. treasury department, which I believe it did anyway. Xerox, a public company, had to include anti-counterfeiting measures to comply with U.S. treasury regulations. The yellow dot pattern only shows the last six digits of a nine digit serial number of the machine that printed it. A binary grid is laid over the dot pattern to show the last six digits. The dot pattern is printed on every square inch of the paper, so you could print your own postage stamps and not get the whole grid on them. You can hard stop the machine while printing and see the dots on the imaging belt or photo drum after you remove from the machine. You can also program the machine to perform a color conversion and convert anything yellow on your original to black and get a copy with a bunch of black dots, that's providing the original is printed/copied from a color machine. You can't change the serial number! The serial number is stored on three different components of the machine. If those three don't sync, your machine don't work.
    So if you printed money and someone caught you, then all they could do is call xerox and ask what customer has the serial number with the last six digits of xxx-xxx. Even then the machine could have been resold several times and who tracks that? In 1992 we had a guy print $40,000 in 100s to buy cocaine. The dealer turned him in, not the dots.

  77. Re:If the government really wanted to get to you.. by Geminii · · Score: 1

    Solution: catapult printers at the drones.

  78. Something I know about on Slashdot finally by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    From what I understand, Xerox would financially benefit from color products, but the technology could cause chaos with counterfeiting and the U.S. treasury department, which I believe it did anyway. Xerox, a public company, had to include anti-counterfeiting measures to comply with U.S. treasury regulations. The yellow dot pattern only shows the last six digits of a nine digit serial number of the machine that printed it. A binary grid is laid over the dot pattern to show the last six digits. The dot pattern is printed on every square inch of the paper, so you could print your own postage stamps and not get the whole grid on them. You can hard stop the machine while printing and see the dots on the imaging belt or photo drum after you remove from the machine. You can also program the machine to perform a color conversion and convert anything yellow on your original to black and get a copy with a bunch of black dots, that's providing the original is printed/copied from a color machine. You can't change the serial number! The serial number is stored on three different components of the machine. If those three don't sync, your machine don't work.
    So if you printed money and someone caught you, then all they could do is call xerox and ask what customer has the serial number with the last six digits of xxx-xxx. Even then the machine could have been resold several times and who tracks that? In 1992 we had a guy print $40,000 in 100s to buy cocaine. The dealer turned him in, not the dots.

  79. Finally something on slashdot I know about by fled · · Score: 1

    I have worked for Xerox since the early 80s, and on color products since they came out. From what I understand, Xerox would financially benefit from color products, but the technology could cause chaos with counterfeiting and the U.S. treasury department, which I believe it did anyway. Xerox, a public company, had to include anti-counterfeiting measures to comply with U.S. treasury regulations. The yellow dot pattern only shows the last six digits of a nine digit serial number of the machine that printed it. A binary grid is laid over the dot pattern to show the last six digits. The dot pattern is printed on every square inch of the paper, so you could print your own postage stamps and not get the whole grid on them. You can hard stop the machine while printing and see the dots on the imaging belt or photo drum after you remove from the machine. You can also program the machine to perform a color conversion and convert anything yellow on your original to black and get a copy with a bunch of black dots, that's providing the original is printed/copied from a color machine. You can't change the serial number! The serial number is stored on three different components of the machine. If those three don't sync, your machine don't work. So if you printed money and someone caught you, then all they could do is call xerox and ask what customer has the serial number with the last six digits of xxx-xxx. Even then the machine could have been resold several times and who tracks that? In 1992 we had a guy print $40,000 in 100s to buy cocaine. The dealer turned him in, not the dots.

  80. This is what the KGB used to do in the USSR by pavelthesecond · · Score: 1

    Back when my grandfather bought his typewriter in 1960~70s he had to register it with the KGB. The idea is that the print drum is unique on each machine (like a finger print). So then if you started sending anonymous letters to somebody the KGB would be able to figure out who's typewriter was used to print the message and track you down.
    And back in those days a typewriter was an equivalent of a modern day high end phone/computer: people would not just give it away to friends or throw it out.

  81. Easy enough by Trogre · · Score: 1

    Easy enough to avoid - just use mono printers for everything you don't want tracked. Problem solved.

    --
    "Nine times out of ten, starting a fire is not the best way to solve the problem." - my wife
  82. Other Printing Solution by nullchar · · Score: 1

    You could take your [soon to be] inexpensive 3D printer, and program the robot arm to hold a pen, then 'write' out the text just like old plotter machines did. With a fine pen, small text and different fonts could be written. Advanced versions with multi-color pens could draw (or 'dot') images. (Or make/adapt your own head capable of spraying jets of ink.)

    Though once you post to your /. journal about the awesome 2D plotter you built from your 3D makerbot, "they" will know the print came from you.

    (I suppose you should also grind your own tree fibers or recycle your own paper. Someday each ream of paper may have a slightly notched edge used as a unique identifier.)