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Santorum Defends Robocalls To Democrats
Hugh Pickens writes "The LA Times reports that Rick Santorum defended his robocalls urging Democrats in Michigan to vote in today's critical primary, a tactic that has come under withering criticism from rival Mitt Romney as a 'terrible dirty trick' and a 'new low for his campaign.' Santorum says he reached out to Democratic voters, who can vote in the primary, to show that 'we can attract voters we need to win states like Michigan,' and noted that the former Massachusetts governor has wooed Democrats in the past and used Santorum's own words endorsing him in the 2008 race on a robocall of his own. 'I didn't complain about it. I don't complain. You know what, I'm a big guy. I can take it.' Romney crossed party lines himself to vote for Paul Tsongas in the 1992 Democratic primary over Bill Clinton in order to cause mischief for the general election. 'In Massachusetts, if you register as an independent, you can vote in either the Republican or Democratic primary,' said Romney, who until he made an unsuccessful run for Senate in 1994 had spent his adult life as a registered independent."
This has no place on /.
n/t
So he didn't "cross party lines" then, did he?
If I get a robo call, I simply will not buy your product (or vote for you). No mater what the options are, I avoid people and products that try to annoy me.
But then if you buy into Santorums position that education is for snobs and if your not rabidly pro Christian your anti religion robo calls may work on you.
"Have you ever thought about just turning off the TV, sitting down with your kids, and hitting them?"
Rick Santorum is a terrible dirty trick, so this sort of thing comes naturally to him.
You can hold down the "B" button for continuous firing.
If anything, that's going to make people angry and make them less likely to participate.
That's what the conservative party of Canada is alleged to have done in over 30 ridings (districts) during the last Canadian federal election.
I think the act of reaching out the Democrats in and of itself is a non-issue.
If the message was "hey, I'm wanting to reach out to you because..." it'd be one thing. A "vote for me" message.
However, the message of the call is "Let's send Mitt Romney a MESSAGE!" A "vote against him" message.
IMHO, this is not quite the scandal everyone seems to be whipping it up to be, it's just "in your face" negative campaigning.
Can we talk about what candidates would do about Syria, now? Or maybe African genocide? How about finance reform? Hungry for real issues.
/me sips his coffee and ponders a new sig...
... or are you just hanging your hat on the word "robo" as an excuse for starting another generic my-party-is-better-than-your-party flamewar?
the title has the word "robo" in it.
My roomba got a robo call once telling him to vote skynet.
"That's the way to do it" - Punch
Since he says that half of the euthanisias in my country are against the will of the person dying, I'd like him to come over here, so we can add him to his own statistic. It seems he's going to be worse than Bush jr. WW-III anyone?
I live in a predominately Republican district - let alone State (GA). During elections, the Republicans are the most fucking annoying robo-callers ever. My wife, a registered Republican, has been so irritated with the Republicans for many many many reasons, that she has voted Democratic since '00 and is planning on voting for Obama again. Even though in Georgia, the Republicans are so strong here that there really is no point in voting - the Reps own this state - I think I'll join her and vote for Obama. I have since burned my Libertarian card - I can't be a hypocrite - I love most of what they say, but they're a little too wacky for me.
The night before an election, we just turn the ringer off.
Their message has gotten so retarded that moderates such as ourselves have been turned off by them.
Obama '12! Baby!
a lot of democrats that'd be lining up to support Santorum, even as a joke in a primary. The possibility of "President Santorum" is a damn scary proposition for progress made over the last 50 years on just about every social issue before even taking into account the actual policy. It's scarier still is that it has gotten this far already.
So that explains the unnamed 313 number I found on my caller ID box last night...
But why would he be calling me? I live in California.
he does froth doesn't he.
Why would Santorum want to engage Democrats in the Republican primary. He's the fringe right wing candidate. Romney is nigh indistinguishable from the Democratic incumbant. If a Democrat shows up at the Republican primary, the odds are very good that he'll vote Romney.
The only way I can see a Democrat voting for Santorum in the primary is to help Obama win in the general election. Is Santorum banking on his own unelectability to win the primary? Or is that reading too much into this?
Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
Personally I think they should do away with "special rights" of parties, etc.
There is nothing in our constitution that creates- or gives special rights to political parties. There is nothing about our brand of democracy that benefits from having parties. George Washington actually called them a bad idea and thought the US should stay away from them.
The government by including party affiliation on ballots- and helping organise- and give public spaces to primaries are interfering with fair elections- it gives an unfair advantage to the two largest parties and does not give a level playing field.
Being a two-party system the majority of the population are pressured into voting for one of two ideologies. "an independant or a third-party can't win" is a common belief... certainly it is made harder by states allowing people to vote "straight-party ticket". This makes it harder for independants or third parties to be elected.
"That's the way to do it" - Punch
WW-III anyone?
I believe Santorum prefers to call it The Tenth Crusade.
This is politics, and Frothy is just being creative.
* Carthago Delenda Est *
Calling on Democrats to come out and vote in the GOP primary? Might be a trick, but not something to get worked up over.
Making robocalls, to anyone, ooooh now that's dirty. That deserves a beatin'
Republicans in Michigan crossed party lines to give Jesse Jackson the win back in 1998, and also for the Gubernatorial primaries to vote for Geoffrey Fieger in 1998. Democrats in Detroit were urging their voters to turn out for Ron Paul today, which is what Daily Kos should have supported too if they had half a brain. Ron Paul pulling off an upset in Michigan would have really threw the GOP primaries. A Rick Santorum victory, not so much.
Taking guns away from the 99% gives the 1% 100% of the power.
I'm not surprised that both Santorum and Romney would stoop to just about anything that they think might help them win; but I'm honestly baffled by this one: What color is the sky in the universe where Santorum, running on the theocracy platform, is hoping that he will achieve any useful effects by mobilizing democrats? Romney is a deeply unlikable plutocrat with vaguely reptilian characteristics; but he managed(through a set of policies he now totally doesn't endorse when he is on the national stage) to govern Massachusetts for a while without too much falling into ruin, which gives him more democrat cred than the rest of the slate(and certainly more than Santorum).
Is there a secret supply of fanatical theocrats who've been voting democratic all these years?
Obama's hordes of homeless and Kool-Aid drinkers knocking on doors
I doubt Santorum could find the Netherlands on the map. I doubt he could find Europe on a map.
Partially because his maps all depict a flat earth with "here be dragons" written on either side of the United States. The bible doesn't authorize a globe- so the earth must be flat.
"That's the way to do it" - Punch
Since he says that half of the euthanisias in my country are against the will of the person dying, I'd like him to come over here, so we can add him to his own statistic. It seems he's going to be worse than Bush jr. WW-III anyone?
Fun fact, which American President has killed more Muslims via drone strike then GWB? Barack Obama.
I laughed at the weak who considered themselves good because they lacked claws.
'terrible dirty dick' ... but maybe because of Santorum http://spreadingsantorum.com/
Yes, it's disgusting
https://mtnspirit.files.wordpress.com/2010/06/world-map.png
"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
Democratic field is worse
-- Two men say they're Jesus. One of them must be wrong. - Dire Straits
Since he says that half of the euthanisias in my country are against the will of the person dying, I'd like him to come over here, so we can add him to his own statistic. It seems he's going to be worse than Bush jr. WW-III anyone?
Yeah, he's pretty nuts, but don't worry too much. He's hated by a majority of voters in this country. All the crazy religious nuts are in the Republican party and it seems they're nearly half the people willing to go out and vote in a primary. The rest of out are laughing our asses off. We're just praying this will continue until the convention.
The single smartest thing Obama could do at this point is to start funding Santorum's campaign.
I'd like to know how primary elections got co-opted by political parties as a means of selecting their party's candidate for the general election. If they want to use the public voting system for party needs, they should pay for it or stage their own party-specific election and not hold a primary at all.
In the best of all possible worlds, there wouldn't be ANY primary elections. There would be a single election with ranked preference voting and everybody gets three to choose their first, second and third choices in a single election. This would put an end to "throwing away" your vote.
If there is still a desire for a primary election to reduce the general election to a smaller field, then the primary should be open and free of party labels. Everybody gets one vote, and the two candidates who get the most votes appear in the general election, even if it means two Republicans or two Democrats or a Democrat and a Socialist or a Republican and that crazy guy Ole Savior who runs in every election.
The current system is just a cattle call that just reinforces the two party "system".
Who better for Obama to run against than a male more-to-the-right version of Sarah Palin?
Perhaps all the Democrats should heed Santorum's call to vote in the Michigan Republican primary - and vote for Ron Paul. :-)
That will show 'em.
It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
Fun fact, which American President has killed more Muslims via drone strike then GWB? Barack Obama.
I didn't know either of those guys flew drones!
Operation Hilarity
Ah, maybe he can just visit a hospital in Zeeland, Michigan, and see if they have the same practices as in our Zeeland :-)
... Wasn't there just a major DEMOCRATic robo call effort to democrats urging them to get out and vote for Santorum? Once is good but the other is bad?
I'm from Michigan. Yesterday, I got 11 robocalls, including one at 8:45 yesterday evening. I got several from Santorum's red, white, black and blue folks, but I also was called by Mitt, his wife, and one of his kids. I thought about voting, but won't vote for any of these turkeys - consider
Mitt has repudiated Romneycare - yet it works and most Massachusetts folks are covered. Why would he repudiate something good even if it needs tweaking? Just what does he believe? His auto bailout comments are stupid, because only the feds could raise that amount of cash at that time (2008).
Rick doesn't like anything for females - sounds good until you have daughters. I paid two bills totalling just under $600 so my daughter could get a prescription for birth control pills, because she was unemployed, and to old to be covered by my family's health insurance. The pills helped her function - her internet boyfriend was in Florida Also. In the last 5 years, I've lost two close friends to suicide, both over female, health-related issues. Santorum wouldn't understand those or similar.
Newt the trigamist - do you really want to entrust the United States to a politician who divorced his (first) wife on her deathbed? Who shut down the government via a contract on America? Who made big bucks ($1.5 million) helping Freddie Mac fail Granted he is a historian, but his history is sordid.
Ron Paul is at least honest, and hasn't changed what he stands for during the campaign. but his foreign policies are completely unrealistic.
Tomorrow, my telephone stops ringing! Wonderful Peace!
Guess which American President has killed more Jews via drone strike than Hitler? Barack Obama. Almost certainly true (though I have no actual data to back it up), and absolutely certainly meaningless. What, exactly, are you trying to get across here?
No matter who is in the White House, there's a very good chance WWIII will be started on his watch. There's not one plausible candidate, D or R who doesn't have warmongering with Iran as a major part of their foreign policy platform.
If anything, Obama is a bigger threat to world peace than Santorum. The cult of personality behind him has made most voters oblivious to the fact that he has doubled down on all the worst offenses of the Bush administration. Obama could ask for any power whatsoever, and the so-called "moderates" would hand it over to him just because he's "not Bush".
I'd be extremely surprised if we didn't see an Obama reelection shortly followed by a propaganda blitz extremely similar to what we saw in the lead up to Iraq. And he'll get away with it, because people are more concerned about their team winning, than not being hypocrits.
Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
Primaries themselves are a dirty trick on democracy. Within this topic. no one can take a high ground or say some particular candidate has unusually frothy feces oozing from them. The whole point of primaries is to subvert the election by removing choices from ballots, so I think it's hilarious someone would complain that distorting democracy for a particular candidate is somehow worse than another.
If anything, persuading non-party-members to participate in the parties' primaries, helps to subvert primaries and therefore could some day lead to better representation. Not that I have any illusions about Santorum's motives here, but if you take a long view, he's doing a good thing in this instance. Harming parties' ability to have "accurate" primaries is good for the country.
The only thing really distasteful here is the robocall angle itself -- that they exist. But of course if you were to give government the power to prohibit political speech (of all speech topics!) that would be even worse. So pay Santorum back by voting for him in the primary, and voting against him (and any other robocallers) in the election if you feel strongly about being robocalled. Make robocalling become a way to lose.
As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
Please don't confuse the right-wingers with facts.
Well, apparently I have.
I only have so much time in my day - and to head off the "What are you doing on Slashdot" attacks, I'd point out that Slashdot is a great distillation of IT news on the web and it saves time - so, I just have to go by the nuttiness that I see in the media - ALL the media.
Which means, if the Republicans have another message other than complete and utter nutty Right Winged bullshit; they are doing a horrible job!
And it also means, if any of their current candidates make it into the general election, they have proven their retardation.
They DO have viable candidates for the general election but for some reason, they never get there.
Christine Todd Whitman is someone that interests me, for example.
All of the euthanasias in the US are against the will of the person dying, we just use the euphemism "death penalty". I'm constantly amazed at how the side that's "Pro-Life" is so intent on killing adults.
Most ignorance is vincible ignorance. We don't know because we don't want to know. --Aldous Huxley
That's what it comes down to in the end: the powerful doing what they can to keep their power and get more.
And one of the ways is getting the peons on board to your message: "You to can be RICH if these 'policies' weren't in place!"
It always proves to be horseshit.
And then others: "Everyone should be EQUAL (except for me)! Vote for me!"L
I look at Scandinavian countries and I see some excellent, but not perfect, implementations of Government and Economics.
We can do better.
Why would the Democrats vote for someone even more conservative than Santorum?
I hate robocalls. I hate the exemption from the Do Not Call list that frees political candidates to use them at will. If I get one robocall from a political candidate, they lose my vote. Forever.
Eternity: will that be smoking, or non-smoking? I Corinthians 6:9-10
Congratulations, you're a fucking retard.
There's a big issue where Robocalls were made during election time that were:
a) Tricking voters into going to the wrong voting booth
b) Irritating or bothersome in nature, e.g. during late hours or to Jewish constituents during Sabbath, etc
c) Generally as annoying/misleading as possible
The issue issue at hand... the callers said they were calling on behalf of the "Liberal" party. However, the current accusation is that they were actually made by a different party (the one in power), and one staff member has already resigned over the issue.
So simply dropping support for a business/party/etc based on an annoying call might not be a good idea.
"Santorum says he reached out to Democratic voters, who can vote in the primary, to show that 'we can attract voters we need to win states like Michigan,' "
I would imagine the majority of Democrats that crossed party lines to vote for Santorum in the Republican primary, do so for strategic reasons. It's not that they are willing to vote Santorum in as President, but that they think he has less of a chance than Romney. If there is a politician that can cross the aisle and get some communication going between the political parties, Santorum isn't it.
who are you talking to my well-spoken friend?
Santorum. He's too dumb to know that Democrats who vote for him want him to win because he's a freaking fruit basket. Either that or he does know that and he's smarter than all of us. Maybe he has footage of Romney breaking some obscure old testament thing that would get him stoned by a tribunal of elders if America was run the way in should be.
http://static.hypervocal.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/Santorum-Cumming-Rally-Obama.jpg
Remember "News for Nerds, Stuff that Matters"? Help make it a reality again! http://soylentnews.org
Besides, if you're a female nerd, Rick "Frothy Fecal" Santorum wants to own your vagina (through various religious proxies, an unreasonable percentage of whom are pedophiles).
The right has gone so bugfuck crazy that it will matter a great deal, to just about anyone, if they get control of more branches of government than they control already (and if Rick or Mitt become president, watch out!). We thought "W" was bad, but after watching the GOP debates this year, it's clear we aint seen nothing yet, and anyone not very afraid of these people is a fool.
I beat the system by not registering to vote!
Now the annoying political robocallers always skip me, and I can eat dinner in peace.
Woohoo!
Of course, he hasn't actually started any wars on his watch, unlike, say... every other US President going back to Carter. (No, a handful of drone strikes in Libya and Somalia don't count.) He did end the war in Iraq and is ending the war in Afghanistan. He got Bin Laden with a minimal incursion that didn't become a full-blown invasion.
He's talking tough on Iran, but is showing no signs of actually planning for a military operation there. The budget cuts to the military show that.
Reality conflicts with your fear-mongering and false equivalency.
You catch enchiladas by picking them up behind the head and holding them underwater until they don't kick anymore -VeGas
There is one plausible candidate that isn't a warmonger. Polls show he is statistically tied with Obama, and he is currently in second place for delegates in the current primary. But, his loud mouth detractors say that his foreign policy is "crazy". Somehow, saying that we should send troops into battle without the consent of Congress has become "crazy".
Our country is doomed.
Aah, change is good. -- Rafiki
Yeah, but it ain't easy. -- Simba
No, a handful of drone strikes in Libya and Somalia don't count.
I think if a drone struck your home, you might have a different opinion on whether that's an act of war. Although, Libya would be a rather minor transgression, if he hadn't violated the War Powers Act by staying there past the deadline.
He did end the war in Iraq and is ending the war in Afghanistan.
Yeah, he ended the Iraq War on the exact date Bush set, and was trying to stay longer. If you're happy that the Iraq war is over, you can thank the Iraqis for kicking us out. Obama had nothing to do with it.
I'll believe that Obama is ending the Afghanistan war when the Afghanistan war actually ends. He could have left when he killed OBL. I don't know what he's waiting for, but it's unlikely it will ever come. Afghanistan is the graveyard of empires. Cut and run at the first opportunity is the only reasonable option.
Yes, BHO killed OBL, but he's also killed american citizens. Even juveniles. I'm far more frightened of living in an America where the president can have citizens assassinated with no oversight or detained without habeas corpus than I am of living in the same world as OBL.
Reality conflicts with your apologetics.
Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
I believe you are forgetting the V1 flying bomb.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V-1_flying_bomb
The V1 could easily be considered as one of the first armed flying drones.
If I were God, wouldn't I protect my churches from acts of me?
" I'm constantly amazed at how the side that's "Pro-Life""
They are not pro life, they are pro-baby. Once that baby is out, it's open season on that kid, especially if he doesn't grow up the "right way".
An act of war is not the same thing as a war, just sayin'.
You know what, I'm a big guy. I can take it.
Interestingly enough, Mr. Santorum, I have a bet to this effect.
Literalism isn't a form of humor, it's you being irritating.
I wonder if these handful of drone strikes that don't count murdered more people than the 9/11 attacks.
Of course not. But if you are comitting acts of war you are fighting a war.
They're no pro-life or pro-baby, they're anti-woman. Most of them seem to want to outlaw contraception and are quite happy to strip women of unrelated healthcare as part of their mission too.
When Rick Santorum becomes President he will be the Mahmoud Ahmadinejad of the USA.
They're no pro-life or pro-baby, they're anti-woman. Most of them seem to want to outlaw contraception and are quite happy to strip women of unrelated healthcare as part of their mission too.
I'm an agnostic, but this demonization obscures the issues involved. Personally I am pro-choice, but I -understand- the reasons why the other side believes the way they do. I just don't agree, and it's not something as stupid as hating women or being anti-woman or whatever.
Why are they against contraception? Because the Bible clearly states that sex has exactly one valid purpose, procreation, and any other sexual activity is a perversion of God's intent. Sex feels -good- and it feels good because it's a reward for teh baby-making. Some can deal with things like condoms that prevent conception from ever occurring, but for a very large number, conception is the line that cannot be crossed, and anything that harms a fertilized egg falls under the "abortion" category below.
Why are they against abortion? Because they believe, honestly, that an abortion is the killing of a human life, and that the life before birth is just as valid as the life So pro-choice people can wail about how "they want to control my vagina" and other such things, and the easy response is "you have control over your vagina, but that never gives you the right to murder another human being." For them, it's murder, just as if you'd drowned your toddler in the bathtub. It's not "anti-woman" to state that a woman can't kill her own child, so they could be very much for equal rights, but equal rights still do not allow for murder. For pro-choice people, the line is drawn at birth. For pro-life, it's drawn at conception.
Now, you can easily make the case that the Bible is misogynist. That's not exactly a stretch, it was written by societies that skewed towards the extreme end of patriarchy. Its rules are clearly outdated, but if you -firmly- believe that the Bible is the unerring word of God, then it can't be outdated, and it must be followed, regardless of your sympathies.
Because they believe, honestly, that an abortion is the killing of a human life, and that the life before birth is just as valid as the life So pro-choice people
Grarrr.. That should read: "Because they believe, honestly, that an abortion is the killing of a human life, and that the life before birth is just as valid as the life after birth. So pro-choice people..."