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Google To Devs: Use Our Payment System Or Be Dropped
Meshach writes "Google has been pressuring applications and mobile game developers to use its costlier in-house payment service, Google Wallet for quite some time. Now Google warned several developers in recent months that if they continued to use other payment methods — such as PayPal, Zong and Boku — their apps would be removed from Google Play. The move is seen as a way to cut costs for Google by using their own system."
AFAIK developers from Poland can't link their dev accounts with ad words (or whatever) nor with wallet. Sometimes topics about that pop here and there where devs cry about this. Google of course doesn't give shit about them and now this? Weird.
While you're free to make an app with any payment system you want, using anything but Google's own results in you being cut off from nearly all of the Android audience.
If there's a clear example of "force by practicality", here is one front and center.
Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
For all the good that Google is supposedly trying to do, this begs a question I've been wondering for quite a while.
Why don't they implement a Payment API for developers? People could then use all sorts of services, from PayPal to BitCoin to pay to Google, and be paid by them. Google doesn't implement all the extant services out there because if it implemented a few of them, it would be considered responsible for implementing all of them. But it would make sense to enable developers to do so, and customers to use them.
Or so it seemed. They appear to be more interested in restricting payment types in order to increase their margins. If this is so, it will diminish their user-base as this sort of thing comes out. Granted, they've found innovative economies of scale that have allowed them to do things it would be difficult for others to do as cheaply - which appears to be something they're now leveraging to put unfair leverage on the marketplace. A lack of effective competition becomes a monopolization.
The Wolfpack Project: BitCoin + Crowdfunding = Political Accountability
This is awesome because Google is awesome.
If Google says it's the right way to go, it's gotta be the best.
If it leads to an alternative to paypal, then I'm all for it.
As much as it'd be good to have the choice, I've had nothing but trouble using non-Google methods. Paypal's been an absolute bust getting an in app purchase working, 4 purchases, not worked once. At least it's tied together and easier (now) to get refunds from Google if there are problems.
Waiting for an amusing sig.
The lack of editorializing has left me confused on how I'm supposed to feel about this story. If only Timothy had posted this story, with some kind of snarky one-liner that clearly told me whether this was a good thing or bad thing!
Seriously, I've written a few posts critical of Google in the past year, as my own patience with them has waned. I've even been called an anti-Google shill. But I can not understand why I'm supposed to care about the minutiae of the inner workings of the behind-the-scenes operations of Google Wallet / Google Play.
If an app wants to lose out on "conversion" they should be allowed to. I'm a die hard google supporter but this is just lame. Google's forcing devs to pay higher rates and trying to pawn it off as being for the developers own good instead of google's own wallet. I don't want to start hating google as they've done lots of good but this is dancing with evil.
The Goal: A long simple life filled with many complex toys.
Google's biggest advantage right now is their market share. Android isn't too much better than the competition, and with stunts like this, I wouldn't be surprised if their share starts to slip.
Most linux users don't know this, but the man pages were named after Chuck Norris. Chuck Norris fsck'ing hates noobs!
I would have loved to have jumped on board with Googles payment system in place of PayPal... but there was a slight problem... it was "US Only". It would seem that if I look at the dominant players in various fields, they are players that embrace the fact that the internet and more importantly, consumers, exist well beyond the US alone.
Soon as Google lets us buy/sell stuff using their PayPal-replacment across the bulk of the world, I'll be interested.
How does this cut cost? They have work contacting the developers, extra work for processing payments - in every way costs are bound to go up.
This is a move to increase revenue, not to cut cost.
Really, I wonder whether slashdot is going for the most pathetic, misinterpreted, contentious or plain wrong submission, in order to provoke negative responses. A shadow of its former self.
They should do that only when Wallet is available in all countries. Google Wallet is not available in my country, I cannot receive payments so I HAVE TO rely on Paypal for this.
My app is available on Apple's AppStore, Blackberry's AppWorld, Amazon, Intel AppUp and Samsung's store and they all can send payments. It's just Google who doesn't. Even stranger is that they DO make payments to my country in the AdSense program, I just don't understand why they don't do this for apps on the Chrome Webstore or Google Play.
I tried to pay for conference registration using google payment... after going through too many badly designed data collection screens, I eventually reached an error page that claimed I could resolve it by going to the page I was on...
I gave up and sent a check.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
It's just about getting a cut of the sales.
That's the ONLY thing this is about.
it can be wrapped in 7 layers of bullshit, but that's still what this is about in the end.
sure, it's an attack on paypal, on facebook credits etc. but that's only means to an end which is getting a cut of your purchases.
I'm pretty sure they won't extend this to banking apps though!
world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
The alternative was already there.
If the alternative were better, you'd have already known this.
Slashdot social media options: AIM, ICQ, Yahoo, Jabber and Mobile Text. Why no MySpace?
Is this legal? Does anyone know if that sort of action violates the law?
So much for Google's policy of "Don't be evil". en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don't_be_evil
The same thing happened when Cisco was trying to sell new routers to Chase for their datacenters. They would buy the equipment if Cisco moved all their employee's 401Ks to JPMorgan Securities. A client hates not having his 401K under his control in Fidelity. I hate big banks.
The only advantage PayPal had over Google was that it's global. Unless Google can get the services licensed as widely as PayPal, it's not going to be able to compete with PayPal.
But, I don't think this is going to be an issue as Google Play isn't globally available.
It will be interesting to see what comes out of this.
With the subject "Open" no less. Honestly, your post contributed absolutely nothing of value to the conversation, and one can only surmise that you're trolling for points for mods who are suffering from chronic sleep deprivation. I sincerely hope any mods viewing this will mod the OP into oblivion.
Write failed: Broken pipe
So what? Ebay also did this with Paypal. Before Ebay ruined itself, you could have a choice of payment processor including the one they most liked you to use - but was NOT compulsory to use their payment processor (which was NOT Paypal).
Then one day, Ebay decides to make it compulsory to have Paypay as a payment option. Around about that time I gave two fingers to Ebay. You WILL NOT force me to use a 100% unethical bent company to sell my no longer needed stuff, and have not used Ebay since.
And so Google are going the same way. Oh well.
Take Nobody's Word For It.
This is not true.
If something is better, eventually you would already know this.
People in Marketing can explain this better then me.
Who's next in being the nice guy?
Ehm, ok.
I still think however that it will be interesting to follow the outcome of this since Android is marketed as being open with more or less no control or involvement from its authors. If Google starts enforcing control over third party applications then what will the next step be? Android is open at its core but it could be that Android as a whole is going toward being somewhat locked-down.
Exactly. This isn't about alternatives, it's about blocking alternatives. Also wth is a Zong or a Boku? Is it like a Flooz?
If you mod me down the terrorists will have won
Come on Google, we know you're evil. Stop pretending, it's nauseating.
Apart from obvious irony here, will they punish those who use bicoins for selling products too?
What the hell is wrong with Google now? I happened to REALLY like Google since I got net access, but in last months, Google seem to me like every other giant company abusing his position on the market. What happened to Google's motto, "Don't be evil?"
Google should just issue its own sovereign currency, called Quatloos, and mandate that as the only currency for any of their or their partners business. Google can not be forced to accept USD as a form of payment, as long as, according to US law "no debt has incurred." Quatloos can be exchanged for USD through licensed Google Quatloo Dealers . . . who are owned by Google. The exchange rate will be set . . . by Google. Google employees will be paid in . . . Google Quatloos.
Students of US history might remember that mining companies issued their own currencies during the late 1800's.
Reader of The Economist might recognize the value of having issuing debt that must be paid in a sovereign currency that you control. Google can inflate or deflate their currency as it suits them.
It seems like a win-win all around!
For Google.
Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
Guess the motto "Don't be Evil" isn't valid anymore.
People who accept bitcoins punish themselves.
The Bill Gates/MS icon on Slashdot (is/was) that of a borg version of the Dorky One... the idea being that MS wanted to assimilate you into the collective. Turns out it was a hippy collective indeed with about as many rules as Fight Club with no enforcement.
It has often been remarked that MS dominance was obtained not so much through the success of MS but through the failure of everyone else. Read Apple, IBM and the various home computer makers whose names are lost in the mists of time only remembered by the senile elders.
And through their failure, we gained the Wintel platform which now turns out to have been insanely open. Imagine MS telling Windows developers how to collect payment, if at all. Does MS tell Blizzard how to collect its pound of flesh of the enslaved? How shareware should be payed for?
Does MS dictate which version of MS you should run on Dell hardware? Does Dell stop you from upgrading the OS?
It is not as if MS never tried but it failed so often nobody took them to serious and so the evil that might have happened, never happened. It is like a brutal dictator whose brutality ends up as a kind of cute outburst with throwing chairs instead of the millions dead with efficient dictators. A dictator who fails at being terrible sounds a lot better then a dictator who succeeds... and Apple and Google are certainly trying hard enough.
It is kinda sad that companies keep trying to get total control when the PC did so well without it.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
For one, any in-app purchases made will be tied to your account now. I've seen people lose out on DLC-type purchases they'd made because they switched to a new phone, and the developer of the program used a different payment service. Hopefully this will keep that from happening in the future.
I've used both Google Wallet and I've used PayPal
And I've used other online payment services
I find Google Wallet a little bit more "friendly" to the user. PayPal, which I've used for years and years, has become more and more, how should I say - arrogant
Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
LIke Beta, for instance.
Android is open. Google Play (formerly Android Market) isn't, and never was. But no one is forced to use their market to provide and install apps.
Dilbert RSS feed
The main reason I use Paypal , is because it that allows bank transfers. I don't have a credit card.
All the other systems I've seen ( including Google Wallet from what I've seen ) require a credit card.
Slipping shoelaces ?
... Be greedy!
That's what virtual CCs are for. Doesn't your bank offer them?
Dilbert RSS feed
Do is sense an anti trust suit? Yes I do!
So basically "Android" is open but almost no one actually uses it, in it's true sense.
My experience of Google market is that only free-apps works there, and the only free apps making money are like 'Dynamite Dan'. DD has you tapping all over the screen and occasionally it places an advert up, so you tap it by mistake. That's how I think it makes money by making a free game that teaches you to tap adverts as part of the game, then placing adverts up when your in tap-tap mode.
I tried Samsung App Store, which is great right now because apps are vetted and competition is limited, but its only for a few markets like the UK. People buy because the apps are likely to have a minimum quality, and there's a trust of Samsung because they bought the handset from them.
Amazon sounds like a rip off for app developers, but I may try it out of desperation.
I think people want to be in Google market, but when you actually look at the money, I bet few of them are making any worthwhile money from it.
They'll be dropped in an open way.
If all else fails, immortality can always be assured by spectacular error.
Insightful
All the market is waiting for right now is a company to come along with something better than Android (which isn't hard), and they will sweep up the "open" phone segment.
I agree 100%
Like our politicians with the Constitution, they wiped their asses with it when the scent of money wafted through.
I don't think the market you use has anything to do with whether Android is open or not, as long as you're not locked to that market. I mean, is Debian not open because I can't force them to put applications that don't comply with the DFSG on the main repository?
Dilbert RSS feed
I'm not affiliated with them but as a user I can wholeheartedly recommend them. I've also been using Kagi for many years without problems.
Just stay clear of the big ones like Paypal (shudder) or GoogleWallet, Amazon, etc. unless you don't mind becoming the victim of extortion, arbitrary EULA and pricing changes, or having your earnings locked away for indefinite time.
...Bay!
Oh, the beautiful gloss of greality!
Good point!
on the 28th i tried to buy an album in the market, on my phone. i got a generic error that it couldn't complete the order, so i tried the computer. i got an error that my card on file was expired. i updated my new card, plus added a new gift card as well. i was never redirected back to the market online, so i went there and bought the album. i choose one of the cards from the wallet drop down. then, i was charged twice, once on each card. i have sent 2 emails daily since to get a reply back and a refund and have heard nothing. there was a number to call, but after 10 minutes navigating menus, they say that there is "no live customer support" and all i can do is use the email forms. this has become infuriating.
Maybe kthreadd really meant to say... "So, It has come to this."
No, Google feels they are allready punishing themselves enough.
How will this work for countries where Google Wallet merchant accounts are not available? Last time I checked (admittedly a couple of years ago) Google Wallet merchant account was not available in my home country South Africa.
BTW,
"Among those who use this convention, it becomes a subtle form of calling card and social identifier to one another. It's been used for centuries."
Does this mean Christine O`Donnell really is a witch?
evil, eh?
You gave these idiots access to your bank account?
Both Visa and MasterCard offer debit cards linked to your bank account. They act like credit cards and they usually have a clearing time just like credit cards allowing you some leeway to complain to your bank if a transaction doesn't go your way. I'm not sure what it's like where you live but the banks in Australia offer these free (free as in no yearly cost, no interest, no transaction fee etc) to pretty much any customer with an account that allows debit transactions. Actually I don't think I've seen a debit card in the last few years that hasn't had the Visa or MasterCard logo on it.
I highly suggest you investigate this possible option. In Australia our banks are pretty good with dispute resolution, in fact in my experience they have been incredibly painless even when a card is stolen. But if you give someone debit access to your account you have pretty much no recourse with the bank.
No. You can use the openness and still use non-open components. You can use cyanogenmod and still use Android Market. You can use other appstores and use Market. You can install apps directly from a file.
On a similar note, Linux is open even though you can install closed, Binary Blob drivers.
What?
they are becoming just as evil as Apple or Microsoft, hopefully enough people at google jump ship and start new search engines and services to give google some competition.
http://i.imgur.com/5to2k.jpg
Politics is Treachery, Religion is Brainwashing
According to this article: http://www.i-programmer.info/news/81-web-general/3895-google-insists-on-google-wallet.html
1. Developers outside the US are exempted
2. Google Wallet charges a float 5%, Paypal charges $0.30 + 2.9%. Google Wallet is only more expensive if your app costs > $14.28. Considering the prices of most Android apps, I'd say calling Google Wallet "costlier" is a downright lie.
I cannot see why there is such a fuss about it.
Living in a goddamned 3rd world country where we cannot even get out lazy banks to work with Paypal we are left with such few payment options that Google checkout/wallet has really come in handy in many, many occasions. I was a victim of Paypals incredibly idiotic policy of account freeze for a simple transaction meant to repay a product miss-shipment cost, the amount was so small that we didn't even bother, but realized that the didn't care enough for customers. IMHO in the end it will all be simpler for everybody from developers to end users of Android to use Google's payment methods, so simple, so effective.
So basically "Android" is open but almost no one actually uses it, in it's true sense.
Actually, I don't think that anyone CAN use it that way, unless they design their own cellphone/tablet hardware. I'll bet even the Google Nexus stuff uses some proprietary chipset drivers (but I might be wrong about that).
I don't have a bank.
No. You can use the openness and still use non-open components. You can use cyanogenmod and still use Android Market. You can use other appstores and use Market. You can install apps directly from a file. On a similar note, Linux is open even though you can install closed, Binary Blob drivers.
So, by that analysis, OS X was "open" so long as Apple published the Source to Darwin. (Which only stopped after the move to Intel).
Boy, do a LOT of Slashdotters have about 7 years worth of Apple Hater posts to take back...
CAPTCHA: Dispu
Oh yeah? Well I don't have a computer!
Random Thoughts From A Diseased Mind (Not For Dummies)
Seriously, these guys are making Microsoft look... well, soft.
I am very small, utmostly microscopic.
I have bought about 20 or 30 apps for android over the years as I hate losing some screen space to the adverts. I cannot think of a single one that did not use Google Wallet to process my payment.
I would love to know what percentage of android app developers use other methods to take payments, if it is less than about 5% than I am not in the least bit surprised about this.
I dont read
No, the concept doesn't exist in every country actually.
Nothing will. This has been the case forever it seems.
http://www.theverge.com/2012/3/8/2855744/google-play-in-app-payments-wallet
grape - the GNU free, open source rape
From TFA: "Although this move by Google might seem high-handed, it reduces the friction for purchases inside Android apps and therefore makes users more valuable,"
Makes users more valuable? In English please?
I hadn't known there were so many idiots in the world until I started using the Internet -Stanislaw Lem
If the government was doing its job they'd be fined hard enough to hurt the bottom line for the shareholders. They wouldn't put up with that crap for long.
What ever happened to not being evil?
You made a promise to the world not to be evil. Clearly your evil evaluator has a bug in it and you need to patch the problem.
Make our Internet Explorer the default browser, or be dropped.
Google's new policy is another big company attempting to leverage their monopoly in one area, to corner an unrelated market (payment services).
The problem is unlike Apple they don't require specific standards or approval of every app, so they have no plausible deniability with regards to their measure.
If their objective was simply to have a cut every sale, they could include terms in the agreement requiring developers to report in-game sales and remit their payment to Google.
It's obvious they want to maximize margins by killing off any potential competition for payments within an app.
So, by that analysis, OS X was "open" so long as Apple published the Source to Darwin.
Darwin was open "so long as Apple published the Source to Darwin." OS X wasn't open any more than the binary blog drivers were themselves open.
So if a developer finds value in another payment system for their product they can release on every market other than Play. If they then want to also reach Google market audience they have to maintain a separate codebase that supports Google Wallet? This is a terrible decision on Googles part and I think lowers the incentive for app creators to work on Android. In many valid cases it now takes considerable more effort to reach the full Android ecosystem.
I wish there was a good Android alternative. I bought the S2 when it came out but I would gladly take the cost hit to get something I was proud to own.
I like Google. I even have some of those weenie google certs. I think Google does a lot of things right.
But, google Wallet, and Checkout, are abominations. And Google has absolutely zero support of any kind. If something goes wrong, even if it costs you thousands of dollars, you are just plain screwed.
My advice to Google: if you want people to use services: 1) make your services worth using. 2) provide support - especially for paying customers.
Google has absolutely zero customer service. You can post on forums, but your post will probably be ignored. Certainly you cannot get help when you need it.
No matter serious the problem, you cannot contact Google.
Even posting on the forums is confusing as all hell. "This forums has been moved to Google groups." or "That forum has been moved to support.google.com/" or god-only-knows what.
cutting off your nose to spite your base
insensitive clod overlords obligatory xkcd car analogy russian reversals whoosh pedant fanbois ftfy in 3...2...1..PROFIT
append a "(Not Recommended)" hyper-linked to a discussion deprecating the policy.
While they are making policy mandated requirements to your site coding, Google ought to require a paypalsucks.com hyperlink next to the PayPal option.
There is no right to feel safe thru security vaudeville at the expense of everyone's freedom, privacy and tax money.
In my case I gave PayPal ("these idiots") access to a secondary checking account set up specifically for that purpose, with no overdraft protection and no ability to draw funds from my other account(s). My credit union was perfectly happy to set that up.
I worry less about PayPal screwing me over than I do about someone hijacking my credentials somewhere even though I'm pretty cautious about them.
In my case, if my account is hacked (or PayPal decides to freeze it, etc.) then I'm without access to the US$4-5 that I leave in that secondary account. Since my CU has online banking and processes transfers immediately, if I'm going to be purchasing something I sign onto their site, move money, then go to PayPal. Conversely, on the rare occasions when I'm paid via PayPal rather than by check, I transfer the money down, then sign into the CU site and transfer it out of that "exposed" account.
fencepost
just a little off
This is illegal and a very obvious violation of the anti-tying provisions in the Magnusson-Moss Warranty Act.
Google - We violate the laws just to fuck you into using our services.
Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
I have never even heard of Google Play (beta), and I use Google nearly ever day (DDG has decreased that from "dozens of times per day"). I typed in play.google.com in the location bar, and sure enough, there it was. It appears to be some kind of movie / music / book / game store. Imagine that - a whole Google media store that I have never heard of!
Anyway, one has to ponder, how long will it last? Google's demand that developers use their payment system is tantamount to an admission that Google Play is not profitable. Google tends to kill projects off that are not profitable.
Can you use other payment systems for and within iOS apps? I guess I don't see the problem here? Why wouldn't you try to bolster the Android ecosystem when one of the common knocks against it is it's scattered nature of services?
This has nothing to do with the platform being open. On my android device I have an option that says "install applications from unknown sources", and if I check it, I can adb install anything.apk from my pc, or just point my phone's web browser to any URL with an APK and download it, or even use other markets not under google's control. This is just google's policy for their own store, well, I'm ok with that. They can do whatever they want with that. Unlike apple where you can only install apple approved apps from their apple approved store.
WTF am I doing replying to an AC at 5 A.M on a Friday night?
Shove it back in their face, snort derisively, and take your money elsewhere.
That, my friend, is TRUE arrogance
Yes, PayPal are well established world-class shitbags....but they were actually a decent company in the very early days, ya know. Google's headed down the exact same path, they're just bigger and slower moving. Just wait. The last straw will eventually come for you too.
He's probably an ebay retailer. PayPal is required to be accepted on ebay.
So two points here. First, I don't care what they think, it matters what they do. Dislodging Paypal from its market dominance perch is a thing I would appreciate them for doing, regardless of their motives.
Even if eventually Google takes PayPal's place as the big, evil payment company? What the hell are you going to do to escape it when the company controlling the entire Internet is evil and now in charge of the payment system too?
But second, how do you even know what their reasoning is? I kind of doubt you've gone and interviewed the individuals who made the decision.
And if you did, you'd be foolish, because the way to discover someone's intentions and motivations is not to ask them, but to observe what they actually do. Google is on an evil path.
Which means that you're just applying the cynic's logic that because they're a corporation, they only care about dollars and never kittens.
No, it's more like I used to love this company, but have slowly become disenfranchised and jaded from seeing their foolish and somewhat evil actions.
So you want them to design a secure payment system, and issue you a high tech piece of plastic, and keep it secure against attacks, and operate servers to process payments until the end of time... for zero dollars, ever.
No, you misread what he said. What he actually said was he wants to be able to transfer money from his bank to another bank directly, using a simple plastic card, rather than having to go through every Guido and Ese who wants his cut. In Europe bank to bank transfers are easy and common. In the U.S. it's expensive and a hassle.
The stupidity of this post speaks for itself.
I mean just how DO you "put a spin" on tens of thousands of released documents?
Did they delete out all the emails that showed politicians petting kittens and hugging orphans?
while the rest of us see through the veil Wikileaks put up and saw it for what it really was.
What you just made is an ad hominem attack. Nobody cares about Wikileaks reputation, or Julian Assange's ego. Its his actions which we find heroic.
They are saying they won't allow you to use their system to contribute to what basically amounts to an anti-US group conducting what would by any other means be called espionage and using propaganda as information terrorism
Information terrorism? Is this what they call the truth these days?