LSD Can Treat Alcoholism

ananyo writes "LSD has potential as a treatment for alcoholism, according to a comprehensive retrospective analysis of studies published in the late 1960s and early 1970s. The researchers sifted through thousands of records to collect data from randomized, double-blind trials that compared one dose of LSD to a placebo. Of 536 participants in six trials, 59% of people receiving LSD reported lower levels of alcohol misuse (PDF), compared to 38% of people who received a placebo. The study adds to the weight of evidence that hallucinogenic drugs may have important medical uses, including, for example, the alleviation of cluster headaches."

Comments

Go figure

[Hatta]

Yet another Schedule 1 drug with actual medical applications. Is there any part of the war on drug users that isn't based on lies?

Re:Go figure

[six025]

Is there any part of the war on drug users that isn't based on lies?

No!

Re:Go figure

[TheCarp]

Not just lies but misinformation. I mean, LSD is often a far more exotic of a drug to the people who haven't done it than have. It isn't habbit forming. In fact, after a trip, I often said that if someone put more acid in front of me and suggested I do it again, I might punch them. At its best its long and draining, physically and emotionally. Do some people go crazy and do it every day? Sure, but they are hardly the norm.

Don't get me wrong, I saw some people have some difficult times, and see things that sounded far more amazing than anything I ever saw. And I have seen it change lives.

I had a friend who had a few very difficult experiences. He was a bit religious, and talked of seeing deamons around him and being convinced he was going to die. Took him a long time to get over that. Though, it also was the catalyst that changed his life, to become a better person, to get off the myriad of drugs he was using and get a career instead of going into his 20s as a petty crook on his way to jail.

So do I think it can cure alcoholism? No. I think its a tool that could be used to gain perspective and insight and to become invested in change. That may very well be what enables a person to change... however, I don't think its a magic switch... and it might be a difficult ride.

Actually LSD has been used in this manner, I highly recomend "LSD Psychotherapy" by Stanislav Groff. Excellent book on the subject, where clinics have been run outside the US for many years. However, its not just "LSD does the work", it is the entire therapy session surrounding it that guides it.

Re:Go figure

[jellomizer]

Even if it was legal, do you think it would pass FDA approval?

LSD does have some long term side-effects on people. Such as Trips years after using the drug.

Re:Go figure

[cayenne8]

Spot, Spot...the micro dot.

Look, Look, see Spot BLUUUuuuuurrrrrrrr........

Re:Go figure

[cayenne8]

Acid: Melts in your mind, not in your hand....

Re:Go figure

[Internetuser1248]

It works with most psychedelic drugs, and there are those without the downside you mentioned. Ibogaine is the current favourite among researchers. Also flashbacks from a single treatment are rarer than most drug side effects, and less severe than many. Given that substance addiction basically results in severe illness, death, harm to others, prison and insanity, I think a small risk of a minor flashback is a pretty acceptable side effect.

Re:Go figure

[Higgins_Boson]

Misinformation.

The only people who had trips that bad were the ones who ABUSED it heavily, did more than they should have or just tripped in the wrong setting or had underlying psychological disorders to begin with, in which case they needed a controlled dose and not a dose from some dude off the street.

As for FDA approval.. have you EVER watched a commercial for an FDA approved drug? Nice, harmless side-effects like cancer, organ failure, Stevens-Johnson Syndrome, blindness, heart failure, brain damage, impotency, birth defects, peripheral neuropathy, weight gain, weight loss, coma, death.

Yeah... you keep counting on those corrupt assholes in the FDA. I will take my chances with the shady looking guy on the corner.

Re:Go figure

[fuzzyfuzzyfungus]

Probably depends on what it was being tested for the treatment of.

Risk tolerance certainly drifts around as a function of time, and the FDA is no exception; but there ends up being some vaguely linear relationship between the ghastliness of the condition being approached and how much slack the assorted side effects and risks of the therapy end up being cut.

Given that alcoholism tends to have pretty dramatic long-term effects on people, many of them pretty nasty, and presently has a lousy cure rate, it might actually have a shot. It would certainly have plenty of company among the 'potentially very unpleasant drugs for definitely very dire indeed psych conditions' that are currently legal, approved, and commonly accepted for use. How much flack it would draw from the 'all you need is more willpower!' school of largely ineffective but morally satisfying therapy would be a different question... Its chances for less serious diagnoses would probably be much poorer, and (depending on what classification it hypothetically received) even off-label use might be strongly discouraged by enthusiastic DEA oversight.

Re:Go figure

[JeanCroix]

Ibogaine? I hear that Santorum is heavy into the Ibogaine... (/HST)

Re:Go figure

[TheGratefulNet]

its based on lies, racism and religion.

ie, all the bad things about mankind.

Re:Go figure

[19thNervousBreakdown]

That's ridiculous. I've known a lot of people who have done acid. A lot of people who've done lots of acid. I've been to acid parties. I've hosted acid parties. All of this is to say, I've got some experience with it. And I've never had a flashback. I've asked many former users, directly, "have you ever had a flashback?" Not a single person has ever said "yes" or even "maybe".

Don't get me wrong, it's got some (semi?) permanent effects--primarily, you will never forget the first time you really trip. I've also noticed that decisions made while tripping seem to "stick" more. At least for me. In my early 20s, I told myself a hundred times that I need to slow down, but somehow when it came time to party I was always up for it. Then, once, I came to the same conclusion while tripping. After that, the temptation to party when I shouldn't was greatly decreased. I can't really explain it, it was just easy to just have a couple beers and go to bed at 2:00 AM instead of getting hammered and staying up until dawn. I didn't even really feel like I was missing out like I did before. It helped me get over an ex-girlfriend that I was being a dramatic teenager about. One night--bam--"hey, she doesn't like you, deal with it, there's plenty of girls out there" and I woke up the next day and it was like I'd been single for a year. It also showed me that there's definite limits to how fucked up I enjoy being.

There was also other stuff. I'd get a phrase stuck in my head while tripping, and then find myself overusing it for weeks after. Cigarettes had that "acid" feel for a couple days (smokers who have tripped will know what I mean), and weed would make me feel like I was tripping, sometimes a week or more later although that could have been my imagination. I think it permanently gave me a better sense of perspective and empathy, and it gave me the "feel" for looking at a problem from a different angle. The "feel" thing is hard to explain too--it's like how when you're learning to water-ski, when you start out, you don't know how things are supposed to feel in order to stay up. Once you've done it though, you know what you're aiming for. Any potential negative effects aside (I really can't say I have any, but then again how would I know?), it's absolutely had a net positive effect on my life.

But one thing I've definitely never experienced or heard of anyone experiencing, is a flashback. Ask anyone--the most frequent response you'll get is, "Damn, I wish."

Re:Go figure

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes there is: Meth. It's an insanely high rush, nothing compared to speed (racemic) and (you guessed it) and insanely high comedown, so people want to take more to remove the comedown.

Eventualy you'll end up with this viscious cycle and stop caring about hygene, because your brain has more inteligent things do do, like solving insane math algorithms and piles of work in no-time. Then the hygene turns into a problem and you'll scratch you ass of. Due to scratching you'll get all kinds of possible bleedings and possible infections. Then after a while you no longer sleep for days on end and that's bad for your skin. Also stress here.

Due to too much dopamine you start bitting your own teeth to hell, which causes the loss of teeth.

This is not some kind of anti-drug persuit of me because I happen to know drugs,, if you know what I mean. And luckily no; I'll never take meth.

Re:Go figure

[Hatta]

LSD "flashbacks" are nothing but vivid memories. Have you ever smelled a smell or heard a tune that transported you back to another place and time? If so, then you've had a flashback. These are not medical events, and I speak from experience.

The safety of LSD is far better established than many FDA approved drugs. They've studied it so much looking for negative effects that we know all of them by now. It's non-addictive and non-toxic. It doesn't increase the risk of schizophrenia. I don't think there's any question that it's safer than, e.g., Adderall.

Re:Go figure

[Brian Feldman]

Yeah, I think if anyone would be a candidate for "acid flashbacks" it would be someone who knows he has mood disorders and yet has done it dozens of times anyway. But I've never had an "acid flashback." I will absolutely testify to its ability to help the user completely change the direction in their life -- but this is using it with intent. A lot of people treat psychedelics as nothing but party drugs.

Re:Go figure

[Anonymous Coward]

Whatever you do, don't look at the mirror.

-- Ethanol-fueled

Re:Go figure

[Hatta]

Or, on the other hand, do. =D

BTW y u no login?

Re:Go figure

[ColdWetDog]

As for FDA approval.. have you EVER watched a commercial for an FDA approved drug? Nice, harmless side-effects like cancer, organ failure, Stevens-Johnson Syndrome, blindness, heart failure, brain damage, impotency, birth defects, peripheral neuropathy, weight gain, weight loss, coma, death.

Come on, that's a small price to pay for an erection. Put some perspective in your life!

Re:Go figure

[19thNervousBreakdown]

Heh. Try holding a few hits of acid in your hand for an hour or two sometime.

Re:Go figure

[jamstar7]

Dude, I'm still waiting for those flashbacks they promised me in the 60's.

Re:Go figure

[Reverand Dave]

That's hard on mushrooms too.

Re:Go figure

[Anonymous Coward]

Work, that's why.

--E.f.

Re:Go figure

[redneckmother]

Ibogaine? I hear that Santorum is heavy into the Ibogaine... (/HST)

Speaking of flashbacks... :-)

Re:Go figure

[Gription]

The only reason that the FDA wouldn't approve LSD as a drug is it isn't patentable and the FDA doesn't do ANYTHING unless it benefits a major pharmaceutical company.

Re:Go figure

[g0bshiTe]

Wouldn't you treat a patient suffering from hallucinations due to withdrawals with another drug that induces hallucinations?

Re:Go figure

[g0bshiTe]

Hence the reason it comes wrapped in cell-o or foil. Go figure the one instance you need a tin foil hat.

Re:Go figure

[Anonymous Coward]

Starting in 1968, the nerve agent STP was infiltrated into the underground LSD supply network in San Francisco and New York city. This was part of a program to discredit LSD, which was perceived as a threat to social stability due to the impact of the "psychedelic experience" on behaviour conditioned by propaganda. Long story short, some very influential people started to believe Tim Leary's claims that LSD would produce a "liberating" change in the nature of society - and took action to put a stop to it.

Extreme "freak outs", and so-called "flashbacks", are the intended effects of STP, which was developed for use on the battlefield as a disabling agent capable of producing long term psychiatric symptoms. The rationale for "non-fatal" but long term disabling nerve gas is the same as for making land mines that cripple without killing: The enemy soldier is eliminated from the battlefield /and/ becomes an expensive pension case, plus a walking advertisement for the horrors of war. Ironically, the only documented use of STP, and its cousins BZ and DZ, has been in domestic political warfare.

Re:Go figure

[Higgins_Boson]

hehehe... thanks, man. That was a good chuckle, which I desperately needed today.

I'd give you internet points, but /. doesn't like to let me hand them out.

Re:Go figure

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, I'm sure addiction to LSD or potential acid flashbacks for the rest of your life is way better than being an alcoholic. I'm pretty sure even stuff like bananas can have medical applications. The war on drug users isn't based on lies. There might be some less dangerous drugs... but LSD isn't one of them.

Re:Go figure

[sootman]

During this time, [Steve] Jobs experimented with psychedelics, calling his LSD experiences "one of the two or three most important things [he had] done in [his] life."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Jobs

Re:Go figure

[msobkow]

A psychiatrist actually talk to patients in North America in this day and age?

Oops.

Sorry.

Time's up.

Next patient, please!

Re:Go figure

[Deathmoo]

The war on drugs IS based on lies. Learning is good. Evidence points overwhelmingly to the war on drugs being far more harmful than the drugs it is trying to stamp out. Including LSD. I've known many people to try many different drugs, and LSD is not one that they've had problems with. Not all drugs are evil.

Re:Go figure

[deciduousness]

The big part of that lie is that pot is set as the same schedule as meth... what kind of message does that send to anyone that has tried pot?

Re:Go figure

[Outthere057]

It has been at least 10 years since the last time i have taken acid. in the 4 or 5 years that i did take acid i took well over 100 hits. probably closer to 200 or 300 hits. then one day i just decided it wasn't fun anymore so i quit and don't even want to think about taking it ever again even if it was free. as far as flashbacks go when you say you had a mild trip from smoking weed i would consider that a flashback. the last time i dosed i took between 8 and 20 hits of liquid acid. not sure of the exact amount because it was what was stuck to the sides of the plastic bottle i got it in and i sucked on it for about a half hour and all i really remember is the walls melting and just general crazyness. but after that night for close to 2 months any time i smoked weed i would have major trips or what i honestly would consider a flash back. and to this day i still get mild tracers even when I'm completely sober.

Re:Go figure

[marnues]

Addiction to LSD? Clearly you speak FUD.

Re:Go figure

[asdfghjklqwertyuiop]

Were those positive effects (getting over an ex-girlfriend, partying less) only on the first trip or different ones?

Re:Go figure

[HairyNevus]

Well, I think it's abut time an Erowid link appeared: https://www.erowid.org/chemicals/lsd/lsd_faq.shtml#flashbacks. Anything you want to know about drugs on the Internet, and Erowid.org is your best bet.

Re:Go figure

[DirkBalognapantz]

I agree. At some point, you just want to take the trip off like a coat. The trick is never the trip itself. The trick is integrating the experience of the trip back into the mundane everyday world. The last time I ever did acid, I was having an intense feeling of revelation and asked a friend (tripping as well) how he felt. I expected something profound, but he looked at me and said, "Yeah. I've got a good buzz". Something that one moment earlier seemed divine had been reduced to the level of a 6-pack of Mickey's Big Mouth. I lost all interest in doing LSD after that.

Re:Go figure

[utahjazz]

In California, lack of correlation doesn't prove lack of causation.

Re:Go figure

[Anonymous Coward]

Then let me tell you of mine...

So, a few weeks prior to the flashback event, the festivities on the weekend commenced and I ended up tripping at a normal party house. Some time during that episode, sat down and watched some new computer graphics animations that had recently come out on DVD. Lights were out, dvd was playing w/ the audio cranked up... was pretty intense and enjoyable being whisked away travelling at the speed of light whilst sitting on a couch, physical tingling as the light stream into my brain puppettered an emotional rollercoaster of awesome. Well, several weeks later, we have some down time in High School english class, so we decide to watch that SAME DVD! Lights kick off, dvd starts, and like that I was whisked away into the same morphing light tunnel I'd experienced several weeks earlier. Except, watching it this time lacked every emotionally perspective nuance the original episode had, other than I felt like I had to hold onto my desk while I enjoy the ride.

Left that class with goosebumps and a slight grin thinking, 'wholly crap that was awesome!'. Prior to that, everything I'd heard about flashbacks was that they were bad and might ruin you. My experience proved otherwise.

Re:Go figure

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes. This exactly. I could have (and was tempted to) written this verbatim. But since it's already there...

"Me too"

Re:Go figure

[Anonymous Coward]

Another way to put that is a spontaneous vivid recall may occur in any person and is not caused by LSD. People who have PTSD and respond with hyper vigilant episodes may have an increased occurrance after a strongly negative experience, LSD or otherwise. I mention this because I have hyper vigilant episodes during which I'll lose up to a few minutes while "locked in" recalling memories I find difficult and will occasionally physically or verbally react (incoherently) to the replaying experience. However, I've never had one that occurred recalling anything I experienced while not sober.

Re:Go figure

[Anonymous Coward]

Fuck Adderall, that's an amphetamine. Try Piracetam! It's much more healthy, reading the wiki here.

Re:Go figure

[19thNervousBreakdown]

Different trips. My first one, I didn't recognize the visuals at the time and I smoked a bunch of weed that day with friends so I thought it wasn't even real acid--didn't know what it felt like. My second trip, I took a lot, and saw overlapping patterns of giant eyeballs on the walls, but I knew it was just hallucinations. I've never even come close to losing touch with reality, I can't imagine how much it would take to be unable to tell when something impossible happening (like foot-wide eyeballs opening and closing in diagonal rows on the walls) isn't real. Oh, it looks real, but you can say to yourself, "this isn't possible, so it's not real". The real trick is when something that would normally be crazy happens, like a car accident happening outside your house. It takes hard thought to be able to figure out if that's real or fake, and it ain't always real--a closed door can sound like a car crash, and then you look at the car and it's got a dent, but you hallucinate the dent is the whole front of the car, and then you run outside shouting, "oh my god is everyone okay?!" and then the people react to you shouting and then it looks like a crisis situation which just reinforces that an accident happened even though it didn't and now a couple people who just got out of the car have some guy running at them shouting half-coherent questions and--well, you can probably see how stuff can get out of hand. You have to have the presence of mind to think through all that stuff while you're more fucked up than you've ever been in your entire life.

The insights only came when I actually sat down and introspected while tripping--most of the time, I just used it as a party drug. That said, I don't think there's a significant difference between your 2nd and 40th trip. As another poster mentioned, there's a near 100% tolerance from one day to the next, but if you wait a couple weeks it goes away completely. Your first is different because a lot of people, their first time, don't even recognize that they're being affected until they're already on the way down. Strong visuals only happen when you're tripping hard, and the basic visuals (tracers, subtle movements in patterns, etc.) are easy to overlook because the mind-fuck is much stronger than the hallucinations at low-medium doses. You're more worried about the meaning of time and whether drinking orange juice is going to make you permanently insane than whether a leaf on the wallpaper might have moved a little.

I'm a nervous, introspective, pessimistic person, so tripping was always an ordeal for me. But, I'm also a pretty strong personality, so when I felt stuff slipping away I held on harder. Some people trip and fall over that edge, and act like someone in a fugue state, where there's no self-control, and that's the "bad trip" stuff you hear about--I bet a couple of times I had as much internal turmoil as some of those people who ran down the street naked, but I just sat in the corner blowing my cheeks out and scrubbing my hand through my hair every 2 minutes for 16 hours. Not that I'm particularly special or anything, I just never took enough to throw me over that edge, but I definitely got close a few times. I think a fair portion of the people who have the freakouts are looking for an excuse to act crazy, and LSD is one hell of an excuse. And then once you start acting weird, it's easier to keep acting weird and blame it on a bad trip than it is to just pull things together and go "woah, sorry dudes, I was freaking out, I'm good now." But, you've got the mind-fuck going on, so it's hard to rationally say, "oh man I'm taking this too far, it's time to own up to it."

But anyway, no single trip was a massive life-altering experience like I've heard of other people having. It just helped me look at stuff from a different angle, be more objective, and for some reason I can't explain, coming to the exact same conclusion while on acid had a much stronger effect than it would otherwise, but I always felt like the same person the next day and nobody ever sai

Re:Go figure

[Anonymous Coward]

I am in full agreement with this post. I've never had a flashback and I did A LOT of acid and mushrooms in late high school and early college. Also, it seems that lessons learned and decisions made while tripping have a great deal of stickiness.

Some personal examples:

1) I had been drawing since I was a wee little one, but after drawing during trips my artistic abilities improved significantly and the effects stuck, as if I had had weeks and weeks of practice crammed into a single night.

2) In early college I started doing freestyle rap. When I started I was horrible, then I did it while tripping. BAM! Significant improvement over the course of a few trips. I went from rapping badly in my room, to going to freestyle open mics and battling other MCs.

3) During this time I also started contemplating things like ecological and evolutionary processes, and now here I am with a PhD in evolutionary biolgy and a full-fledged evolutionary biologist.

I have no doubt that I could have reached these potentials without the tripping, but I'm pretty sure that the speed at which I learned, and the degree to which the lessons stuck, is due in no small part to my partaking in these substances.

Re:Go figure

[godel_56]

Even if it was legal, do you think it would pass FDA approval? LSD does have some long term side-effects on people. Such as Trips years after using the drug.

Years ago, I read a comparison of clinically prescribed LSD vs street acid.

It said that while a psychoactive dose of LSD was typically between 125 and 175 micrograms, depending on body weight.

In comparison, samples of street acid were tested as being between 1000 and 1500 micrograms, plus who-knows-what funky impurities and additives.

I wonder how much the massive overdoses had to do with bad trips and flashbacks.

Re:Go figure

[Anonymous Coward]

Sorry , can't trip everyday. Body needs a reset. Every other day is weak. A couple times a week is better. But dropping liquid on friday night and blowing off a weekend is priceless.
    Sheeeeeeit. Kids don't do LSD anymore, what's the matter with our youth?

Re:Go figure

[scarboni888]

No Santorum is a frothy mixture of used sex lube and fecal matter.

Re:Go figure

[Anonymous Coward]

I've had what I'd call flashbacks. One Saturday in college, I dropped some acid and decided to crack open my microbiology textbook and do some reading. This was probably a mistake. For a couple weeks after, when I'd hear certain words, namely "phylogeny", in my microbio and genetics classes, I'd get that strong rushing, awestruck feeling, much like when "coming up" on acid, lasting for maybe half a second.

It was a very strong memory of an emotional/powerful experience, probably not much different than PTSD, or randomly catching a whiff of the perfume an old girlfriend wore. It wasn't a major distraction, but it into perspective the power of LSD.

Re:Go figure

[Anonymous Coward]

I had a friend who had a few very difficult experiences. He was a bit religious, and talked of seeing deamons around him and being convinced he was going to die

Sendmail does that to me too, even while sober.

Re:Go figure

[Anonymous Coward]

Urban legend.

You cannot get high off acid by having a few hits exposed to your skin. This rumor started from people who handle LSD in very large amounts getting high from just laying it to blotter. If you are laying a gram of crystal to blotter (10,000 doses) getting high is just part of the process.

Handling a couple hits of acid without ingesting it will do nothing to you, except for a placebo effect maybe. Same goes for stories of spray bottles and squirt guns. The amount needed to get you high from skin contact is prohibitively expensive. Nobody wastes LSD that way.

Re:Go figure

[knuthin]

He was a bit religious, and talked of seeing deamons around him...

I am not that religious, but I had the same problem. I had nightmares about acpid, crond, httpd, mysqld being all around me... That was bad shit.

Re:Go figure

[Rhinobird]

The racist parts are based on racism.

Re:Go figure

[asdfghjklqwertyuiop]

I know I went off on like 6 tangents here, but you seemed curious about the experience itself

Yeah, thanks for the info.

And for God's sake don't start out with more than 1-2 hits or 2-4 friends.

Is that only if you want to do the whole introspection thing and try to get something out of it? You mentioned at first you only used it as a party drug and nothing extraordinary happened the first time. I'm guessing the only place I'd be likely to find it at first would be at a music fest or concert or something like that. Not as controlled of an environment as you're recommending.

Re:Go figure

[Anonymous Coward]

Nah. Found out the hard way with a friend one weekend that the more mushrooms you eat, the more tequila you can drink. And strangely, the more tequila you can drink - the more mushrooms you can eat. It was an interesting almost 48 hours.... that took several days of recovery.

Re:Go figure

[dan2550]

[citation needed]

Re:Go figure

[19thNervousBreakdown]

I know I went off on like 6 tangents here, but you seemed curious about the experience itself

Yeah, thanks for the info.

And for God's sake don't start out with more than 1-2 hits or 2-4 friends.

Is that only if you want to do the whole introspection thing and try to get something out of it? You mentioned at first you only used it as a party drug and nothing extraordinary happened the first time. I'm guessing the only place I'd be likely to find it at first would be at a music fest or concert or something like that. Not as controlled of an environment as you're recommending.

Eh, a music event, if you're the type that has fun at those (I definitely am), is a great place. Just come well-prepared, food/water/all that jazz, and have a bud to stick by that at least isn't going to fuck with you. Just take one hit the first time, you'll have the time of your life but you won't get a ton of visuals. You can always crank those up by smoking some weed though, the great part about doing it that was is the acid+weed peak only lasts a couple hours and then you can try it again. The main thing is, you want to be able to make semi-rational decisions while on acid so you don't need so much handholding.

Re:Go figure

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, I think if anyone would be a candidate for "acid flashbacks" it would be someone who knows he has mood disorders and yet has done it dozens of times anyway. But I've never had an "acid flashback." I will absolutely testify to its ability to help the user completely change the direction in their life -- but this is using it with intent. A lot of people treat psychedelics as nothing but party drugs.

No one has mentioned Tim Leary yet -- for all the stuff written about him, you might think he was a basket case. I met him a couple of times in the 1980's and he was clearly one of the most brilliant people I've ever been in a room with. Read his books, not things written about him. He also used LSD as part of psychotherapy.

Re:Go figure

[Kreigaffe]

Yeah, no. Flashbacks do not happen. You don't suddenly flash into an acid trip 20 years later.

don't believe the government that tells you that to scare you, and don't believe the dirty hippies who tell you that because they want attention.

shit doesn't happen.

Re:Go figure

[outsider007]

It's just not addictive enough for dealers to make a steady income off it, so it becomes a supply problem. Also, oh yeah, Jerry Garcia died, man.

Re:Go figure

[Raenex]

I've never had a flashback. [..] Cigarettes had that "acid" feel for a couple days (smokers who have tripped will know what I mean), and weed would make me feel like I was tripping, sometimes a week or more later although that could have been my imagination.

Which could be considered a flashback. Somebody else posted this link in response to you, and it what it says seems appropriate:

"Studies of flashbacks are hard to evaluate because the term has been used so loosely and variably. On the broadest definition, it means the transitory recurrence of emotions and perceptions originally experienced while under the influence of a psychedelic drug. It can last seconds or hours; it can mimic any of the myriad aspects of a trip; and it can be blissful, interesting, annoying, or frightening. [..] Marihuana [sic] smoking is probably the most common single source of flashbacks."

Re:Go figure

[Anonymous Coward]

Owlsley was an LSD millionaire- food for your narrow thoughts.

Re:Go figure

[FreakyGreenLeaky]

speak for yourself gayboy!

Re:Go figure

[Anonymous Coward]

I agree. This is a worldwide phenomenon. Diviner's Sage is another classic example. Nobody knows why it works as it does, as it doesn't seem to contain any identifiable drugs, so it's banned as a herb everywhere. Simply because big pharmas can't use it for fun and profit.

Re:Go figure

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually as a 30 year AA veteran and someone who took a fair amount of LSD, I'm not surprised. I did feel that LSD was the start of the pathway for me towards a 'cleaner' life. It took a few more years, but, even now, all those years later, the trips felt like a turning point in my incredibly bad relationship with alcohol. OK, I know it's anecdotal, but it's a first-person very vivid memory that has stayed with me.

I've posted as Anonymous Coward for obvious reasons, but I'm a regular habitual, nerdy, over-educated and somewhat aged slashdotter.

Re:Go figure

[allo]

Acid: Melts your mind, not your hand....
ftfy

Re:Go figure

[Anonymous Coward]

Wrong.

While just touching a blotter won't get you high, holding it in (sweaty) hands definitely will. LSD absorbs pretty well through skin.

I've personally done experiments with it in liquid form, and the same dose as taken orally is definitely enough. Takes longer to work, but it feels... heavier, kinda.

Re:Go figure

[Anonymous Coward]

I've done a fair amount of acid (probably around 200 trip doses, but closer to 50 trips - one of them a 12-drop ego death experience).

I feel it's definitely influenced me for the better, and even the two bad trips I've had, I wouldn't really want to be without - they were absolutely horrifying, but led to some interesting changes of perspective.

Never had a flashback, but if I'm very tired and zone out a bit, I can sometimes have visual disturbances. Doesn't bother me, I even actually kinda like it, but it's definitely something that's been caused by the LSD. Another effect is that I no longer experience Restless Leg Syndrome.

The above is just to say that it CAN have lasting effects on you - I think I've been relatively lucky. A guy I know (who did everything, dit it way too often, in way too large doses, and several substances at once) had an entire month of relatively severe HPPD... And is now down to "just" when he's zoning out.

Re:Go figure

[Anonymous Coward]

You say it's helped you get over a girlfriend - how long after the breakup was that trip? And how devastated were you after the breakup?

I'm going through a breakup with what I thought was the love of my life at the moment, and I'm considering a trip to try and straighten out my mind a bit - the amounts of alcohol I'm currently doing just to sleep without nightmares definitely isn't very healthy. I just worry a bit whether I'd just end up in a clusterfuck bad trip in my current situation, and I know that this worrying itself could be troublesome.

I'm no stranger to LSD, btw, having done it a lot from 2008-2011, and some pretty strong doses as well... haven't touched it for 8+ months, though.

//f0

Re:Go figure

[arisvega]

The only reason that the FDA wouldn't approve LSD as a drug [..]

Add to that the fact that people should shut up, not think much, poison themselves with alcohol and tobacco and stay home and watch TV instead of walking around being all enlightened and thinking for themselves. Well, according to some of the people that want to control people, at least.

Re:Go figure

[Anonymous Coward]

I've done more psychedelics than anyone I know, and I've never had a flashback. I did it when I was younger, then not again until my 30s and I've been doing them again for about 3 years. Once in a great while I remember things from trips and feel a bit like I'm tripping, but it's never like actually tripping again. More like mild deja-vu, and it probably can happen with any intense memory.

I've done LSD, mushrooms, and mescaline (you can buy the cactus you need on ebay!). All of them gradually disable your brain's automatic subroutines, while curiously leaving you vividly conscious. For example, all we ever see with our eyes is a small crisp area of vision surrounded by a blurry area that we can pan around. However, as we pan around, our brain paints a picture of the scene for us making what we see appear larger and seamless. Psychedelics turns this off, leaving you with the raw onslaught of visual information to contend with, which is why people misinterpret normal visual information as 'hallucinations'.

I don't know why this process is so transforming but it definitely is. I'm not sure which has influenced the other, but I think proper psychedelic use goes hand in hand with meditation (or prayer). I currently average about 2 hours of meditation a day.

About all this I frequently always ask myself: "am I crazy?" But I look at my life and I have a successful software business, a pretty decent music career, I have a loving, wonderful fiance, a good relationship with my parents. And it just keeps getting better; my life continually feels more peaceful and healthy. I don't know that it's for everyone, but it sure seems to work for me.

Re:Go figure

[Anonymous Coward]

Ibogaine cannot be described as a safer alternative to LSD. Comparatively it is extremely dangerous and has been known to cause severe hypertensive crisis. There have been deaths at Ibogaine treatment clinics. It is also longer lasting and more overwhelming. LSD is about as physically safe as drugs come in that there are reports of people taking literally hundred or thousands of doses and being discharged within a few days (among others, there is a report on erowid from medical literature about a group of people who snorted LSD crystal thinking it was cocaine. Any time you are in a situation where you have a bag of pure acid and think it is cocaine you need to evaluate what you are doing with your life.)

Re:Go figure

[Anonymous Coward]

This is an unfair characterization. Difficult experiences can manifest under the best circumstances. I have a family member with no history of drug or psychological problems who had a severely negative reaction to a single dose of LSD. It was Owsley acid from before the ban, so it was as clean and dose-controlled as you can get, and it was given in a careful setting with a sitter and all that usual 60s jazz.

I believe LSD is fascinating and should be legal for consenting adults to take, but it's unfair to say that bad trips are completely avoidable because psychedelics are extremely unpredictable and until you have some experience with them it is simply not possible to have any idea how you respond.

That said, I have seen far more freakouts from marijuana than acid, though acid freakouts tends to be more traumatic and protracted.

Re:Go figure

[Anonymous Coward]

Sort of. Veteran of over 200 trips here, and while I never had a bad trip, I do know two guys who did and both got religion.

One of them said Satan licked his face.

They weren't heavy abusers, one guy was a best buddy of mine and I knew he'd only been on a handful of trips and never took as much as I did dosage-wise.

They had bad trips because bad things were already in their heads. If you see Satan, you already have Satan on the brain. LSD doesn't create imaginary biblical demons.

But you're right about the FDA. They're owned by doctors and drug companies, same as your politicians. LSD is non habit forming (I gave it up 30 years ago because I just can't commit to a 24 hour trip anymore), and I went on to a successful technical career in IT. It gives you a whole new view of the world and life that would take you a thousand philosophy books to get otherwise, if you're not harboring bad thoughts already, I think it's given me some empathy for others I may not have had, because I know that we don't all experience things the same way. It's also the most fun of any drug, alcohol and weed included.

Re:Go figure

[bkcallahan]

Tolerance to LSD builds up rapidly; even if you are presented with more LSD right after, chances are, you'd have to take more of it to have the same effect. Tolerance also fades fairly rapidly as well. Heavy use would be every weekend, compared to many other drugs where heavy use implies almost hourly/small multiples of. Set and setting -- remember this, and most of your trips will be pleasant.

Re:Go figure

[flyingsquid]

I'm against the war on drugs, but I don't think that we should underestimate the risks posed by recreational drug use. I think the issue is how much you use. I have a friend from high school who used to smoke up occasionally. These days she's a mother with two kids and teaches the gifted program at the local high school, and she seems like a productive, successful, happy member of society. Of course, kids aren't stupid and when they see that people like that exist, they realize that the anti-drug propaganda is wildly exaggerating the risks of drugs. But there are real risks.

Because I've also had friends, colleagues, and acquaintances who were long-term, heavy users of pot and the word that comes to mind is 'fried'. Emotionally, they come across as disengaged from others; they're not quite able to relate or sympathize to other people, they're sort of off in space. They're difficult to talk to- sure, you can converse with them, but it's hard to really connect with them as human beings. It just seems like they're not all there anymore. In terms of their thought processes, they can be highly creative and they often make lots of unusual associations. However, they seem unable to concentrate, to make plans, or follow through, so they're not very good at actually accomplishing anything. They're just sort of losers. I know one who is a prof at a big-name university, and he has lots of great ideas, but he ignores his students, he can't teach worth a damn, and he rarely publishes anything anymore. Again, I'm the last person to advocate for the "War on Drugs" but I think part of the idea that pot should be treated more like alcohol is recognizing that, like alcohol it has the real potential for abuse, and something that might be harmless or even good for you in moderation can be destructive when used to excess.

The thing you have to keep in mind is that drugs can cause long-term changes to your brain structure. This isn't anti-drug paranoia, this is mainstream psychiatric research. Psychiatrists have long noticed that certain drugs took weeks or even months to take effect. Antidepressants, for instance, typically take 4-8 weeks before they start having any effect, and may take months to reach full effectiveness. What they eventually figured out is that one of the factors involved in depression is the death of brain cells, and the therapeutic effect of the drugs comes in part by promoting the growth of new brain cells and the development of new connections between brain cells, which takes weeks to occur. The flip side of this is that some of these changes can be for the worse, at least in some people. There's a school of thought that argues that antidepressants can cause bipolar people to have more frequent and more severe mood swings, and that the changes can cause a long-term, maybe permanent, turn for the worse in the course of the disorder. As a result, psychiatrists are increasingly hesitant to prescribe them to bipolar people.

That's what's at stake here. Drugs- legal, illegal, prescription- can cause long-term changes to your brain structure. Don't do drugs, M'kay? Well, not really. What I would argue is that you should do a little research and think carefully about the risks before you take any drug, whether you're getting it at the liquor store, from a dealer on the corner, or a psychiatrist.

Re:Go figure

[Anonymous Coward]

LSD does have some long term side-effects on people. Such as Trips years after using the drug.

Religion has far more serious long term side effects. Unfortunately there is no political will to ban people from attending church and praying.

Sad what type of hypocritical society we live in. And the lying liars who always manage to steal there way into power (yes I'm thinking of the Right Wing who call themselves "conservatives"; like Crime Minister Stephen Harper in Canada).

Re:Go figure

[scarboni888]

hehe - musta struck a nerve on that one.

And I wasn't even trying.

Love it!

Re:Go figure

[c6gunner]

As for FDA approval.. have you EVER watched a commercial for an FDA approved drug? Nice, harmless side-effects like cancer, organ failure, Stevens-Johnson Syndrome, blindness, heart failure, brain damage, impotency, birth defects, peripheral neuropathy, weight gain, weight loss, coma, death.

That's just ignorant, man. If LSD was put through the hoops by the FDA and then placed on the market, it would most likely have an even longer list of side effects. Why? Because if a enough people in a sample group develop a particular condition, it gets listed as a "possible side effect" regardless of whether there's any reason to suspect that the treatment caused it. Compound that with the fact that ANY drug is bound to have an adverse side-effect in at least a small percentage of the population, and you end up with scary looking lists that poorly informed people love to trot out in order to "prove" that their drug of choice is much safer than the stuff on the market. Whereas your dealer, unfortunately, doesn't provide an FDA-approved list to go with your narcotics.

Re:Go figure

[shikitohno]

Where the hell did you get these numbers? Acid back in the 60s and 70s was typically in the range of 300-400mcg per hit. Today, it varies between around 75-150mcg for a standard dose. Links to erowid have already been posted, and they've got articles detailing this information, plus further links to the DEA testing data they got their numbers from, so I'm not going to bother reposting it. There's some conflicting data on what a "standard" dose would be today, but very little of the seized and tested samples even go above 150mcg of LSD

Also, LSD is one of the most potent psychoactives know the man. Out of potential impurities or additives used to cut it, almost none of them are active at the miniscule doses they would be able to be added in. Of those that would be active, the overwhelming majority are expensive enough that it simply makes no sense to use them for this purpose. LSD is one of the purest street drugs you can buy, simply because cutting it is basically a waste of money. You could try and add stuff to it, but it would have little effect, if any, and the tiny amounts you could add wouldn't justify any significant increase in price. Cutting acid is basically pissing away money on additives for no reason.

Re:Go figure

[Higgins_Boson]

That's just ignorant, man. If LSD was put through the hoops by the FDA and then placed on the market, it would most likely have an even longer list of side effects. Why? Because if a enough people in a sample group develop a particular condition, it gets listed as a "possible side effect" regardless of whether there's any reason to suspect that the treatment caused it. Compound that with the fact that ANY drug is bound to have an adverse side-effect in at least a small percentage of the population, and you end up with scary looking lists that poorly informed people love to trot out in order to "prove" that their drug of choice is much safer than the stuff on the market. Whereas your dealer, unfortunately, doesn't provide an FDA-approved list to go with your narcotics.

The only ignorance here is that which belongs to you. You seemingly think you can trust an organization that's been found corrupt over and over again since its inception. If you think you can trust things that are KNOWN to give cancer, cause rashes that can kill you and make your babies come out looking like cauliflower, then by all means keep taking them. Hell, convince your entire family to take them. I bet you end up seeing more side effects from everyone than those "percentage" people you speak of because once it goes mainstream, it shows what it can do.

Remember... chemotherapy can cause cancer. The supposed "treatment" or "cure" actually can cause OTHER forms of cancer. Yet, it's still used even though its efficacy has been in question for a long time.

Re:Go figure

[19thNervousBreakdown]

Can't say I've ever tried it, or known anyone who has. But then again, you get a very healthy respect for the drug after you use it--I've never taken any chance of having direct skin contact, or even touched something sticky that acid has touched.

I've also searched for any reference that it's not true--lots of myths debunked, but not that one. And plenty of other drugs absorb through the skin--nicotine and birth control to name two, there's tons more, those are just the ones I'm sure of without looking anything up. I know for a fact that you don't have to swallow it, holding a hit under your tongue hits just as hard as swallowing it if not faster, so it's not the digestion process that activates like some drugs, I've spit paper out once I realized I was already tripping my face off. Finally, on all the debunkings of "blue star" acid (tattoos given to children) or "orange guy/glass of orange juice" (accidentally absorbed hundreds of hits through skin), not a one that I could find even mentioned that LSD is less effective through the skin, let alone ineffective. For someone seeking to debunk the myth, the fact that it's impossible would be a pretty solid argument.

Then again, I can't find anything that definitively says it can be absorbed through the skin. All in all I'm not willing to risk it, in either direction, if I had LSD I wouldn't waste it on a potentially ineffective delivery method. How sure are you that it's a myth? Would you be willing to hold 10 hits in your hand for two hours? (10 hits is a pretty much guaranteed bad trip for an inexperienced user.

As a matter of fact, I think the "just part of the process" claim you just made is far more unlikely. With a threshold dose of 20-30mcg and an average hit being 100mcg, and there being 10,000 doses in question, your margin of error between just tripping and tripping harder than any person is likely to be able to handle is incredibly small. If you get high at all (20mcg), you've absorbed 0.002% of the product. If you absorb 0.2% instead, you just took 20 hits and are freaking the fuck out all over town, almost certainly bringing the cops back to your incredibly illegal drug manufactory. Those two orders of magnitude sound like large difference until you consider how stringent the controls need to be to ever hit that 0.002%, and how lax they need to be to be anything over 0.0%, which is what an actual well-run lab would do. Ever tried to do small-detail precision work (like dropping LSD is very regular rows on tiny blotter paper) while tripping? Good luck with that, I guess the stuff will still be here when you come down out of that tree 8 hours from now.

Re:Go figure

[c6gunner]

I love conspiracy morons :) You always brighten up my day!

Tell me, were you this way BEFORE taking LSD? Or did this behavior only manifest afterwards?

Re:Go figure

[Anonymous Coward]

Thanks dude, that was a great description of the inner workings of a mind wandering around on a trip; delicious portrayal!

Re:Go figure

[Higgins_Boson]

I love conspiracy morons :) You always brighten up my day!

Tell me, were you this way BEFORE taking LSD? Or did this behavior only manifest afterwards?

Yeah, FDA corruption is a HUGE conspiracy. Nothing credible has EVER been released about the FDA and their shady practices. In fact, they are the most perfect government body ever formed for protecting the American consumer ever conceived of.

Thanks for pointing it all out to me. Now that you have enlightened me, I think I will go sulk in a corner and reflect on my views of the FDA, which are all obviously conspiracy theories.

Re:Go figure

[c6gunner]

Thanks for pointing it all out to me. Now that you have enlightened me, I think I will go sulk in a corner and reflect on my views of the FDA, which are all obviously conspiracy theories.

You're welcome! I'm glad I could help. But you didn't answer the question :(

Re:Go figure

[Higgins_Boson]

I love how you keep modding up your own posts here, hahaha.... funny as hell.

And I answered your question by pointing out how little you really know about the FDA, mister "I am NOT an American." You simply look foolish thinking that the FDA can be trusted when it's been corrupt for years and years and little to nothing's been done about it.

Real answer to your question: I've never done LSD.

I've read hundreds and hundreds of pages of reports and studies on it, however, and the only studies that seem to say it cannot be used as medicine (like psilocybin and marijuana) are the ones funded and created by governments who have anti-drug policies anyway, unless it is a chemical mixture with harmful effects that comes from a big pharma company.

So keep living in your delusional state of mind, where you think your government always has your best interests at heart. If they did, clearly we'd never fight wars we don't need to fight (read: war on drugs).

Re:Go figure

[Higgins_Boson]

You're welcome! I'm glad I could help. But you didn't answer the question :(

P.S.
You look stupid now that I provided some sources. The FDA is simply corrupt and NEEDS to be completely restructured. Now stop trolling and modding your own posts up on your other account, it makes you look like a complete idiot and not just the usual halfwit you come across as.

Re:Go figure

[c6gunner]

Real answer to your question: I've never done LSD.

Oh. I'm sorry. Must be genetic.

Re:Go figure

[Higgins_Boson]

Oh. I'm sorry. Must be genetic.

Much the way your blatant stupidity is genetic?

Yeah, I do kind of get that vibe from you. I bet your eyes are all droopy and you wear a helmet out in public, "just in case."

But I am done responding to your absurdities. You were made to look incredibly stupid when I backed up my assertions, then you resort to insults. In turn, I am insulting you now. Remember - don't hate the player, hate the game.

Re:Go figure

[c6gunner]

:p

Like I said, I love you conspiracy morons :) Can you talk some more about how I'm "up-modding my comments"? That was particularly funny :D

Re:Go figure

[TheCarp]

Talk? More like entire 12 hour therapy session, with support staff on hand.

So yah, I know, not going to happen.

Re:Go figure

[TheCarp]

Depends on who you are I think. Some people enjoy it, some say its profound, some say its hard. I think it depends on how you relate to the image in the mirror to begin with. Actually I recommend that people who are inclined to trip try this particular activity at least once, because I do think it says something about who you are to see how you react to looking back on yourself.

Re:Go figure

[TheCarp]

Sure but you can up the dosage and do it again once or twice. I have known a few real party bingers, they are a class by themselves and are seldom picky about what they take, so switching from LSD to MDA, with occasional drops into a K hole.... or whatever the kids have been up to since they scheduled K... and I started wishing they would get off my lawn....

Of course, such use with abandon is not exactly normal for people who use lsd and lsd specifically, but, to say it never happens...I mean.... there are always extreme cases. I think its important to recognise them as such though... and certainly not to encourage them... now... a weekend every few months thats more my speed.... sure... every few um...what year is it? I swear I am still young at heart.... if I just wasn't busy tomorow....

Re:Go figure

[Anonymous Coward]

That is only part of it. There is a lot of money to be made by producers since you can make incredible amounts of it. The DEA used to estimate that less than a dozen people were producing lsd to supply to the entire US. That isn't because its unprofitable, its the skill level and products needed to do it. However, once its made, its so potent that you can store millions of doses in a soda bottle. I have heard rumor that one of the larger producers makes large multi-year batches and then disassembles their lab, repeating a whole setup, production, and teardown process every few years.

However, since its so profitable and requires such high technical ability, when there is a single bust, it can be a big one, and disrupt supply. There was a huge bust almost 10 years ago now, and the supply hasn't been the same since.

I think this was the bust.... and OMG what a crazy story....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Leonard_Pickard

That is the guy who was arrested.... the background shows how weird and shady it was. The Informant "Skinner" had moved the lab while he was out of town, let the DEA in, and then set him up.... well... this is a different story about this Mr Skinner....

http://www.dallasdancemusic.com/awareness-politics/73509-teen-kidnapped-tortured.html

And this, even more fascinating, thread about other things he has been involved in (started by someone looking for him)

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/8996655

Makes sense

[GameboyRMH]

They'll stop the first time they see their booze bottles as screaming fanged monsters.

Re:Makes sense

[Anonymous Coward]

It's funny, but this was actually the original intent of the original 1950s studies. However, the study participants often enjoyed the LSD experience and were able to talk coherently and honestly with researchers about why they drank and why they wanted to stop. The sessions evolved into a kind of guided meditation, and eventually showed a success rate of about 45-50%. Compare this to the second most effective treatment for alcoholism - AA - which boasts a success rate of 10-12%.

Hallucinogens can be powerful tools, and I'm glad we're starting to explore them more thoroughly.

Re:Makes sense

[Anonymous Coward]

Naltrexone + drinking is even more effective.

Re:Makes sense

[cjb658]

My name is Bob and I'm an LSD addict - formerly an alcoholic.

Re:Makes sense

[marnues]

I left AA after my court-appointed time ended, but I have to say that AA has many good elements. I found a group that really focused on living life rather than fearing alcohol, loving Jesus, or comparing drunk stories. Unfortunately, AA was developed at a point when Christianity and it's moral teachings were a fact of life in America, so too much nonsense is infused and no one is prepared to make the necessary modifications.

Re:Makes sense

[seawall]

I understand the AA Book, "Pass it On" (which I haven't read darn it), mentions Bill W being one of those who did LSD in a research medical setting. Interesting guy. If I have that wrong, PLEASE correct.

Re:Makes sense

[Anonymous Coward]

LSD isn't addicting at all.... Immediate tolerance.. take it 2 days in a row, second day is extremely diminished effects.. Not that most people want to do it that often, its a hell of a ride and best done occasionally..

Re:Makes sense

[blind biker]

You cannot be an LSD addict - LSD is not addictive.
Here, educate thy ignorant sefl.

Re:Makes sense

[Tablizer]

"My name is Bob and I'm an LSD addict - formerly a pink butterfly on a moon-daisy."

Re:Makes sense

[Anonymous Coward]

Not physically addictive no, but there's always the psychological aspect as well. While there's definitely not the craving that heroin and other opiates induce, or the "I really need this to get anything done" that amphetamine can give, I personally do have a lingering desire for LSD every now and then.

Not something I see as a problem, since the desire doesn't pop up very often - and the experience is so massive that it takes days afterwards to process... while I'm not sure this can be called addiction, I definitely have a desire to do LSD again sometime, and would be sad if it disappeared entirely.

//f0

Re:Makes sense

[Anonymous Coward]

Bob Wilson, one of the founders of AA had LSD therapy in the '50s and was very impressed. He wanted to make it part of AA's process.

Re:Makes sense

[Anonymous Coward]

My name is Bob and I'm an LSD addict - formerly an alcoholic.

ahahahhahaha

placebo for LSD?

[Anonymous Coward]

Please explain how you can pass a placebo off as LSD.

Re:placebo for LSD?

[CambodiaSam]

This is an excellent question. It reminds of a quote from Brain Candy:

”It’s been two weeks and I don’t feel any different. All I’ve done is gain 8 pounds. What’s in this? Sugar, isn’t it? I’m in the placebo group. My face tells me it’s sugar.”

Re:placebo for LSD?

[Oswald McWeany]

You wouldn't have to.

You wouldn't TELL the people receiving the placebo that the other half were receiving LSD. They wouldn't know they were receiving a placebo because they wouldn't know what the drug "curing" them was supposed to be.

Re:placebo for LSD?

[jellomizer]

You don't tell the control group that they are taking LSD.

Placebo side effects: dry mouth, and feels a little bit hyper.
The Other drug side effects: a talking dragon asking you live by the sea.

Re:placebo for LSD?

[brainzach]

But the expectations from taking a placebo of LSD are much different than the expectations from placebo of a mystery alcoholism cure.

Re:placebo for LSD?

[Oswald McWeany]

Don't tell them it's a placebo of LSD. Tell them it is a placebo of asprin.

Re:placebo for LSD?

[Oswald McWeany]

Or rather- not that is is a placebo of asprin- but they're testing a cure using asprin. LOL

And only if you have to tell them anything. If they didn't know the other half were getting LSD- they wouldn't know they had a placebo or what the "mystery" cure was.

Re:placebo for LSD?

[Dishevel]

It still wont work. Because the group receiving the LSD will never believe they are in the placebo group.

Re:placebo for LSD?

[Vintermann]

Today, at least, you would have to inform your test subjects that they could receive a dose of a hallucinogenic drug. It's not a trivial matter, bad trips can happen, and they are by all accounts terrifying.

Even if you didn't inform them, although the placebo group wouldn't know what they did, the non-placebo group would be acutely aware that they didn't get sugar. It's just not possible to bilnd such studies properly.

To me it sounds like LSD functions a lot like religion. The subjects have a pretty wild, magical interpretation of their experiences - "consciousness expansion", as if what they experience is more real than what the brain can perceive when it's working as intended.

However, unlike religion, these radical interpretations got a surprising deal of support from the extremely high status whitecoat scientific establishment. A religion-like experience with the full weight of that authority behind it, I would expect to have a pretty spectacular placebo effect.

Re:placebo for LSD?

[JTsyo]

If 38% of the people can be cured with just a placebo, maybe they should use that first before moving onto LSD.

Re:placebo for LSD?

[Brian Feldman]

It depends -- there's possibility of "microdose" therapy. Not that I know what that feels like, because I've never taken acid and not tripped.

Re:placebo for LSD?

[TheGratefulNet]

religion and drugs have a huge amount in common.

they both serve to play with the mind and present alternate realities, then invite the 'participant' to join them in their delusion.

I've had friends explain their trips to me and how it opened their minds. same kinds of words that very religious people also use.

are we wearing tinted glasses when we view the world? does religion allow us to take off the glasses and see reality or does it give us the glasses in the first place? are drugs the removal of glasses or the use of glasses?

if you think you know, then you've got it wrong.

Re:placebo for LSD?

[deciduousness]

I am pretty sure they didn't dose these people into oblivion. Very small amounts can have the effects they are talking about... in fact large doses may not leave them being able to "hold coherent conversations" with the staff.

Re:placebo for LSD?

[reub2000]

The world is such a terrible place. Why would you want to view it without tinted glasses?

Re:placebo for LSD?

[Anonymous Coward]

True. On the other hand, in a proper double blind study, the person administering the sample also shouldn't know whether they are administering LSD or pacebo. That's going to be a lot tougher to pull off when they hear the test subject comment about how the walls are melting.

Re:placebo for LSD?

[tbird81]

The world is not a terrible place. The world is a wonderful place.

"I see trees of green, red roses too
I see them bloom for me and you
And I think to myself, what a wonderful world"

Re:placebo for LSD?

[Anonymous Coward]

Can I borrow your glasses? .... Please?

Other results not mentioned

[Nidi62]

The study also found a 47% increase in believing they could fly and 39% increase in the belief that they were covered in spiders over that of the placebo group.

Re:Other results not mentioned

[Anonymous Coward]

The study also found a 47% increase in believing they could fly and 39% increase in the belief that they were covered in spiders over that of the placebo group.

The study included bad cop shows from the 70s?

Re:Other results not mentioned

[Anonymous Coward]

and tangerine trees and marmalade skies...

Re:Other results not mentioned

[Hogwash McFly]

What about the guy who thought he was an orange and peeled himself?

Re:Other results not mentioned

[Anonymous Coward]

The study also found a 47% increase in believing they could fly and 39% increase in the belief that they were covered in spiders over that of the placebo group.

Give me a break. The only studies that show a consistent increase in frightening hallucinations were taken in very sterile and cold feeling test chambers. Those that thought they could fly.. well as Bill Hicks used to say..
"Today a young man on acid thought he could fly jumped out of a building what a tragedy!" What a dick. He's an idiot. If he thought he could fly, why didn't he take off from the ground first? Check it out? You don't see geese lined up to catch elevators to fly south; they fly from the fucking ground. He's an idiot. He's dead. Good! We lost a moron? Fucking celebrate. There's one less moron in the world."

Re:Other results not mentioned

[Anonymous Coward]

No, thats Star Trek.

Re:Other results not mentioned

[Nidi62]

He wasnt included in the results because unfortunately he did not finish the study, for obvious reasons

Re:Other results not mentioned

[teasea]

The study also found a 47% increase in believing they could fly and 39% increase in the belief that they were covered in spiders over that of the placebo group.

The study included Really bad cop shows from the 70s?

Re:Other results not mentioned

[RobertLTux]

Umm look at the lyrics to the Beatles Song : Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds and you will see the references

btw bonus points for finding a "looking glass tie" for sale somewhere

Re:Other results not mentioned

[jamstar7]

The study also found a 47% increase in believing they could fly

They stopped believing in the TSA?

Re:Other results not mentioned

[deciduousness]

Obligatory Bill Hicks quote:

"Same LSD story every time: "Young man on acid, thought he could fly, jumped out of a building. What a tragedy." What a dick! Don't go blaming acid on this guy. If he thought he could fly, why didn't he take off from the ground first to check it out? . . . I'd like to see a positive LSD story. Would that be newsworthy? Just once?"

Re:Other results not mentioned

[marnues]

Mod this guy up. Promoting a FUD free Slashdot.

Re:Other results not mentioned

[knuthin]

And then a white rabbit. (Jefferson Airplane style)

This reminds me of a nursery rhyme

[Art3x]

"I know an old lady who swallowed a fly . . . "

Re:This reminds me of a nursery rhyme

[aardvarkjoe]

I get the feeling that this story ends with "When wintertime rolls around, the gorillas simply freeze to death."

Re:This reminds me of a nursery rhyme

[omnichad]

Reminds me of giving a patient HIV to cure cancer.

Re:This reminds me of a nursery rhyme

[blind biker]

LSD is not physically addictive, while alcohol causes one of the strongest addictions AND is also extremely harmful - unlike LSD.

Re:This reminds me of a nursery rhyme

[Anonymous Coward]

There are proven benefits to drinking alcohol, as there are to coca leaves. Sure some people will ruin their lives on bad whiskey or crack, but they'd ruin them anyways. There is no bad drug, only bad users. As long as you don't harm other people I believe you should have the right to sniff enriched uranium if that's what you want.

Re:This reminds me of a nursery rhyme

[blind biker]

There are proven benefits to drinking alcohol

No,
  no
and no.

The only truth is, there's a shitload of money made from getting people to drink overpriced alcohol-in-water solutions.

Placebo?

[Anonymous Coward]

Placebo? Really? What possible placebo can you give somebody that they won't figure out it wasn't LSD?

Re:Placebo?

[medv4380]

Toad Sweat

Re:Placebo?

[Anonymous Coward]

Placebo? Really? What possible placebo can you give somebody that they won't figure out it wasn't LSD?

It turns out that in experiments where people are given punch they are told is spiked, the group being given plain fruit punch starts acting intoxicated. Full on effect of lowered inhibitions, no alcohol.

The placebo effect is a POWERFUL thing. The group being given the placebo LSD probably had some people convincing themselves they were hallucinating.

Re:Placebo?

[Anonymous Coward]

Tell them you're giving them LSD and they'll hallucinate just about anything.
People are pushovers. That's basically why placebos work.

Re:Placebo?

[Anonymous Coward]

Placebo? Really? What possible placebo can you give somebody that they won't figure out it wasn't LSD?

What an awesome comment!!!!

Re:Placebo?

[Larry_Dillon]

Not exactly a placebo (totally inert) but you could test it against the many other psychotropic drugs.

Re:Placebo?

[Beerdood]

Perhaps they're told they're given something to help with their alcoholism, and the red pill they're given does nothing. Would that be sufficient science for a double blind trial? Correct me if I'm wrong here, but maybe that's sufficient here for an analysis. The people taking the placebo only need to be told that they're being given some medication that will help with their alcoholism (or given some story to basically account for the placebo effect).

The other alternative I could see is that they're given some other slightly mind-altering substance (like a tylenol 3 or oxycontin or something). The patient then knows he's on something but may not realize it's not acid. This would me more convincing for the patients, but this has problems too - maybe the alternate mind altering substance actually plays a part in reducing alcoholism too.

Re:Placebo?

[subreality]

What possible placebo can you give somebody that they won't figure out it wasn't LSD?

A sugar pill, the same as always. Given a sugar pill and told that it's a new experimental drug that may cure their problem, a significant portion of people will either be cured or report being cured. It's a large percentage for diseases with a significant psychological component like alcoholism. A significant percentage will also report a wide range of side effects, regardless of the nature of the disease.

You also don't tell either the LSD or the sugar group that they're receiving LSD. You just tell BOTH of them "its a new drug that we're trying; it can have side effects like completely fucked up hallucinations, but don't worry, we'll comfort you through it and you'll be fine tomorrow".

And sure enough, a bunch of people will report tripping balls on sugar pills, a bunch of people dropping acid report that nothing happened, but after you check all the statistics, you find that people who took the LSD had a better cure rate than those who didn't.

Here's the beauty of it: It doesn't matter that they figure out if it's acid or not. It doesn't matter what the mechanism is at all. All that matters is if it works or not.

Re:Placebo?

[0111 1110]

Do you have a citation for that study?

Re:Placebo?

[Farmer Tim]

More importantly, does he know where I can score some fruit punch?

Re:Placebo?

[Anonymous Coward]

Alcohol?

In other news

[SJHillman]

In other news, cocaine addiction has been shown to lower marijuana abuse.

Re:In other news

[Anonymous Coward]

Surely you're trolling, since LSD isn't an addictive drug.

Re:In other news

[Anonymous Coward]

Just like WoW ...

Re:In other news

[booyoh]

Just like WoW ...

Breaking News: SWTOR can treat WoW addiction

Re:In other news

[Anonymous Coward]

This isn't the treatment you're looking for.

Re:In other news

[elsurexiste]

In other news, cocaine addiction has been shown to lower marijuana abuse.

They prefer coke abuse?

Re:In other news

[Anonymous Coward]

It certainly wasn't for many people, who proclaimed "This game is not like WOW" when it turned out...the game was so much like WOW, I could teach a monkey to play both.

In fact, I did, and that's how I reached level 50.

Re:In other news

[Reverand Dave]

Breaking news: Vagina can cure a WoW addiction as well.

Re:In other news

[kelemvor4]

Breaking news: Vagina can cure a WoW addiction as well.

Unfortunately, there's a war on prostitution just like there's a war on drugs so wow players are S.O.L.

Re:In other news

[marnues]

Interesting. I have anecdotal evidence to the exact opposite. She was understandably upset.

Re:In other news

[marnues]

Just another nonsensical comment about drugs from someone who has never used them. That's what makes these discussions so difficult.

Re:In other news

[silverspell]

Breaking news: Vagina can cure a WoW addiction as well.

It didn't cure my friend who was addicted, but then again she'd had one since birth.

Re:In other news

[Anonymous Coward]

God you're an idiot.

Old News

[Spy Handler]

They've been using drug X to treat alcoholism successfully for over a hundred years. Successful in that the patient no longer craves alcohol. The side effect is, he now craves drug X (one of the more popular ones being cocaine)

Re:Old News

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, all those hordes of LSD addicted people are just another problem. Oh wait....

Re:Old News

[Jah-Wren Ryel]

Yes, all those hordes of LSD addicted people are just another problem. Oh wait....

My thoughts exactly.

Re:Old News

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah when coke was legal and pretty well unknown, just as opium was not understood. You obviously know nothing about LSD, why bother posting. Psychedelics are their own category of chemicals, and are extremely unique when compared to other drugs. Its not that a dose of LSD cures alcoholism by itself, its the psychotherapy in addition to to the LSD. LSD is not addictive in the slightest, the psychedelic trip may be to few though, but comes no where to an actual drug addiction to other substances.

Re:Old News

[Anonymous Coward]

Do you really doubt this would become reality if LSD is legalized and readily available?

Re:I've seen phsychology reports differ.

[Anonymous Coward]

LSD can cause a permanent splitting of the psychosis and the end result can be schizophrenia.

Is that a fact anywhere but your ass?

Nice

[Anonymous Coward]

What sickness do i have to get that can be cured by MDMA...?

Re:Nice

[Forty Two Tenfold]

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/07/100719082927.htm

Re:Nice

[f3rret]

What sickness do i have to get that can be cured by MDMA...?

Parkinson's apparently.

Re:Nice

[marnues]

A bad marriage. Great sex with someone you love can force priority re-adjustment ;)

I used to take acid all the time

[Nyder]

Man, those were the good old days, when acid was plentiful (the 80's). I really miss taking acid. They said I'd get flashbacks when I got older, which I am still waiting for. I mean, free acid trips? I'm down. Except they aren't happening.

I want some mother loving acid, LSD, shit, i'll even eat the brown acid from woodstock. Prefer liquid, but I'll take blotter, 4 way, gels, whatever you got.

Tune in, Turn on, Drop out.

One of my best trips was when I took some liquid acid, 2 drops, and 20 mins later, i'm watching these crab aliens rip up my ceiling, while blood was dripping down the wall. Not only was I not scared, I was loving it. I don't lose reality on acid, and this was by far the best show ever. I kept thinking my roommate wanted to sleep with (like I really want to have sex on acid, not!), she thought I was the devil, and we were really fucked up.

I would love to take acid again, but I have no idea where to get it. Guess I can go find some hippies somewhere...

While acid isn't for everyone, 'cause some of you are crazy upstairs, most everyone should take it. It opens your mind to other ways of thinking, and honestly, most the world needs to open their minds and wake the fuck up.

Re:I used to take acid all the time

[Forty Two Tenfold]

"Today a young man on acid realized that all matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration, that we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively, there is no such thing as death, life is only a dream, and we are the imagination of ourselves. Heres Tom with the Weather."

Re:I used to take acid all the time

[Anonymous Coward]

I would love to take acid again, but I have no idea where to get it.

Go to a local music festival. Or if you're really into the Internet convenience thing, take a look into Bitcoins and .onion websites...

Re:I used to take acid all the time

[robably]

Yes. Mind altering drugs are a great way to gain objectivity on yourself - to step outside your normal way of seeing things and then step back in with a new perspective. It's very therapeutic, like taking a wonderful holiday, and something a lot of people would benefit from - not everyone, though. If you are well balanced and content and not actively searching for a "bigger view of things", then it will just be an annoyance. It is not at all surprising that it can benefit people with an addiction problem.

If you're having trouble finding LSD I recommend ketamine. It is a far stronger hallucinogen, but (bizarrely) it carries a lighter penalty if you are caught with it. A couple of small lines and the filters on your perception of time and space start to disappear. A few more lines and all of reality slides through an infinite point in your head - everything you experience is created by you - full hallucination - and then after experiencing infinity (truly revelatory) you gradually slide back through layer after layer of complementary realities until you land back in this one. Beautiful.

So I've heard, anyway.

Re:I used to take acid all the time

[JTsyo]

So what has opening your mind done for you other than wasting some time being high? Write any poems? Make any breakthroughs? Or did you risk you health for a high with no benefits?

Re:I used to take acid all the time

[ynot_reprise]

Man, those were the good old days, when acid was plentiful (the 80's). I really miss taking acid.

Clearly you are just hanging our with the wrong (or maybe right, depending on how you view it) people nowadays. Trust me when I say that its plentiful and powerful as ever. Although you have to give it up to the pioneers such as Owsley "Bear" Stanley (RIP) for expanding minds and universes. This demention shall never be the same :)

Re:I used to take acid all the time

[ynot_reprise]

Ketamine works on the brain completely differntly thatn LSD does, Ketamine is a neuro tranquilizer. If you really want to try some 5th dimension shit and step up to the big leagues of hallucinagens try dimethyltryptamine or DMT. Check this video out http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=grcqs9cDuN8

Re:I used to take acid all the time

[Anonymous Coward]

Silk road. I have an acquaintance that regularly receives decent size quantities for quite reasonable prices, and there's a forum dedicated to discussion of vendor reputation and quality.

Re:I used to take acid all the time

[Anonymous Coward]

I am a lawyer who has taken LSD on numerous occasions. I agree that the "deep insights" people have while they are tripping are generally total bullshit, but smart acid users take the things they learn while tripping and apply them to their day-to-day life. I have had many long-lasting benefits that I have explored on each of my acid trips. These benefits include:

Increased empathy and connection with both friends and family and humans in general.
Increased appreciation of nature.
Visceral understanding of the meaning of infinity.
Increased appreciation of art and music.
Understanding of the importance of beautifully designed objects.
Greater sense of well-being.
Enthusiasm for the weird.
Acceptance of death.

I think most people would benefit from at least one trip.

Re:I used to take acid all the time

[Anonymous Coward]

Everything said here is true. But, Ketamine can also be addictive, and along with N2O has been shown to cause Olney's Lesions when abused regularly. Remember, everything in reasonable quantities and frequency.

Re:I used to take acid all the time

[robably]

Absolutely; don't go mad with it. The problem with advice like that, though, is that the people who follow it don't need it and the people who need it don't follow it. If you have an addictive personality you will know you are doing too much and do it anyway. Be careful out there, kids.

Re:I used to take acid all the time

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, I used to do a lot of acid when I was younger. I'm quite a bit older now, and managed to get a pile of liquid acid on sugar cubes last summer. I tripped for about four or five days straight. It was fantastic to do again, and if it ever randomly comes my way again, then great. If not, well that's fine, too. I hadn't seen it around for probably fifteen years, except once a few years ago when I candy-flipped (LSD and MDMA). What a pleasurable drug.

I've also never had a flashback. I have had a bad trip once, but that was mescaline with acid, so I can't say for sure what the deal was there. (Colors were so overwhelmingly vivid I kind of got scared.) I wouldn't recommend it to anyone with a serious mental disorder (PTSD, Schizophrenia, Personality Disorders etc), but I think pretty much anyone else would benefit from tripping at least once in their life.

Re:I used to take acid all the time

[Anonymous Coward]

have you considered research chems? I'm 39 years old, and I use to do a lot of acid, from high school through my mid twenties. I recently found a product at a local smoke shop that is more or less indistinguishable from real acid. I'm talkin good strong visuals, took about 45 minutes to come on, peaked after another hour and a half and went strong for about another 5 or 6 hours. lasted about 8 to 10 hours overall, the only negative effect with my face got sore from grinning so much. how did it 3 times in the last 5 months, and I'm just so happy I've found it again.

Re:I used to take acid all the time

[BeaverCleaver]

I assume you're trolling here, but I'l bite. Do you write poems and make breakthroughs in your recreation time? You've never done anything just for the pleasure of it? Watched a cheesy movie? Kicked a ball around with some friends? Gone for a walk?

Your comment makes me want to try acid. No, I do not expect that I will cure cancer after trying it. But it will be a new experience, like reading a book, or visiting a new town. Maybe I'll learn something, maybe I won't, but at least I won't be on some puritan soapbox criticising adults who are curious about their world and want to learn through new experiences.

Re:I used to take acid all the time

[marnues]

I've done several psychedelics (above average dose, but nothing crazy) and DMT is the only drug that actively altered my senses rather than just messing with my perception. Sight, sound, smell, and especially time went completely wonky. The effects wear off after about 5 minutes, but that 5 minutes can go on and on and on.

Re:I used to take acid all the time

[marnues]

The work I've done at the end of a trip is incredible. I should probably take smaller doses to see if I can sustain both lucidity and outward concentration. More importantly, tackling my backlog of traumatic stress during trips has enabled me to enjoy life more.

Re:I used to take acid all the time

[marnues]

I hope you don't mind the correction, but I would suggest that people with serious mental disorders who want help should seek medical professionals that understand the effects. Properly controlled dosage, mood, and environment could help many people with mental issues. I will completely agree that such people should never use recreationally. There's nothing recreational about a troubled mind losing it's ability to perceive reality.

Re:I used to take acid all the time

[Brian Feldman]

A lot of "research drugs" are TRULY dangerous. LSD is extremely non-toxic.

Re:I used to take acid all the time

[Anonymous Coward]

Yep, music festival, particularly jam bands, like Phish, are where you can make the contacts you'd need today. Acid is still around and strong, and I am informed by those who continue to regularly use it that the black market quality has improved considerably in the past two decades. The same has happened with marijuana.

I think that all the former bad LSD garage chemists have long since moved on to cranking out bad meth.

Re:I used to take acid all the time

[NicknameAvailable]

So what has opening your mind done for you other than wasting some time being high? Write any poems? Make any breakthroughs? Or did you risk you health for a high with no benefits?

Personally, I've done about 4 dozen different drugs spanning every category - after each new one I was able to program in a different paradigm (async, polymorphism, etc) without the years of learning it most people require. At this point, I can write an ANN in about a day that is capable of performing just about any task I require it to.

Re:I used to take acid all the time

[Anonymous Coward]

I took it at Disney World with my girlfriend (not in the parks with people around, that wouldn't be much fun, or necessarily too safe, IMO). We had a run-in with a huge flock of ducks on a beach in the middle of the night, and it was one of the most empathetic and joyous moments in my life. They (ducks) were very curious, came right up (wanting food I'm sure), and there was something very "connective" about it. I'm sure I'd have felt similarly if it would've happened normally too, though.
We also went to their big arcade there, and everything felt paranoid and "dead" acid-wise. It was a waste, there was no "energy" to it, and we both agreed it a waste of good acid. A good lesson, that when we got outside the wind and smells and sky were far more engaging than electronics.

Dropped acid once and got some very intense brain-burn/hyperactivity, I felt as though all the information I'd ever known was stacked up before me and completely accessible. It helped bring me some confident perspective, and ultimately led to my moving ahead with some difficult professional advancement.

The first time the g-friend and I dropped acid (first time for both of us) it was incredibly connective, exciting, we'll never forget it. It really did give us a sense of perspective in our relationship, helped show us how compatible we are (we believe).

People who get all holier-than-thou about LSD haven't tried it, most likely. It's a delightful experience, and with a good setting and some good people it can lead to a more positive sense of self and the world around us. After LSD I've had a change in perspective that has allowed me to be a little more than I was before.

Re:I used to take acid all the time

[Anonymous Coward]

The notion that only crazy people have bad trips is tainting the well. Bad trips are unpredictable and at times dose dependent. Stop speculating nonsense and spreading misinformation. It's harmful.

Re:I used to take acid all the time

[Anonymous Coward]

Tell that to all the people who are permanently scarred from it and have persistent distressing flashbacks.

Re:I used to take acid all the time

[YttriumOxide]

I would love to take acid again, but I have no idea where to get it. Guess I can go find some hippies somewhere...

I had very good buying experiences with Silk Road. Way easier than any other method of purchase.

If you don't know Silk Road, go read the wikipedia entry, then get tor (if you don't already have it) and follow the instructions.

It feels a little "dodgy" the first time, potentially throwing your money away and hoping something arrives in the post, but I haven't been ripped off yet - the sellers value their high reputation there.

For reference, I'm a long time LSD user; and as anyone looking at my posting history can see, I'm not shy about saying so, nor about strongly advocating the use of it for betterment of one's life (preferably in controlled environments with an experienced user for the first trip)

Re:I used to take acid all the time

[JTsyo]

I just don't feel the risk outweighs the reward for drugs.

Marihuana as teatment for ADHD

[Anonymous Coward]

Might as well declare that Marijuana treats ADHD, Cocaine treats depression and declare Opium as an art-class accessory!

Re:Marihuana as teatment for ADHD

[Brian Feldman]

Actually, it treats not just ADHD but depression as well as a host of other issues.

Re:Marihuana as teatment for ADHD

[marnues]

Let me help you out. The immediate effects of LSD do not treat alcoholism. Controlled dosage and environment help psychiatric patients enter a state of mind conducive to therapeutic treatment. I will completely agree that using speed to treat ADHD is a temporary stop-gap until we have something better. But I'm not going to deprive my brother his ability to function because I hate meth.

Other Uses

[suprslackr420]

My favorite use for LSD is tripping balls.

Re:Other Uses

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, it's pretty good for that too...

meh

[forgottenusername]

A strong dose of LSD removes any underpinnings with reality. There's no way to prepare for it. For some people it's a good, useful thing which helps them gain a different perspective and form new thought patterns or approach problems in a different way. For others its a hellish experience that causes permanent damage to their psyche. Psychoactive drugs can trigger latent personality disorders. I know this from personal experience.

Think of LSD as a focuser; if you're prone to anxiety, you're likely to have an extremely hard time, especially if you're in an sterile lab environment (your ambient environment makes a huge difference to your experience, along with the people you are around).

Anyhow, I have a hard time trusting that study for much. I can see psychoactive drugs having lots of benefits, but a lot of risks too. It's hard to picture someone suffering from alcoholism (which encourages denialism, depression etc) really getting much positive benefit.

Re:meh

[brainzach]

Why would they have to do the experiment in a sterile lab environment?

You can minimize the chances of a bad trip by conducting the test in a more comfortable environment and have a counselor guide the patient through the experience. It will probably be much more positive and effective treatment than giving a guy a lot of acid and locking him in the room for 12 hours.

Re:meh

[roc97007]

Why would they have to do the experiment in a sterile lab environment?

You can minimize the chances of a bad trip by conducting the test in a more comfortable environment and have a counselor guide the patient through the experience. It will probably be much more positive and effective treatment than giving a guy a lot of acid and locking him in the room for 12 hours.

But not as much fun to watch.

Re:meh

[forgottenusername]

That's a good point.

There's been a whole lot of good research done on the mechanisms of addiction, how brain chemistry is changed.. a lot of data suggests (common sense) that if you change your environment, it's easier to break patterns. Charle Rose had a really good series on the brain where this was discussed..

I _think_ this one is it: http://www.charlierose.com/view/interview/10974 - the whole series is great though.

It'd be really interesting if they used some modern techniques to figure out what was going on.. like monitoring differences in brain activity in the different regions..

Re:meh

[Vintermann]

You can minimize the chances of a bad trip by conducting the test in a more comfortable environment and have a counselor guide the patient through the experience.

Yeah, that way you can also minimize (or more like obliterate) what little there is of blinding.

Re:meh

[Vintermann]

The conclusion that a change of environment is often crucial to let someone stay sober, wasn't discovered through studies of neurobiology.

Re:meh

[couchslug]

Leary addressed "set and settting", and the settings chosen by Native Americans for their various psychedelic experiences are instructive.

Re:meh

[Anonymous Coward]

You do the trips at home, with two people. The thing is that LSD is messing up with the visual and inner body perception, therefore doing this in a sterile lab environment is just plain crazy. Presence of other person especially the one you love is also highly recommended - it is because once your perception is messed up, the only way you can perceive things is with love, intuition and other cognitive mental functions but not visual that's for sure.

Re:meh

[Anonymous Coward]

Why have the experiment in the first place?

Blah blah blah, it's safer to drown someone in the comfort of their own home than in terrifying or unfamiliar locations. Be sure to revive them quickly. You may experience dizziness and panic while drowning. Long term side-effects are mostly seen in the weak and feeble minded.

Re:LSD to cure Alcoholism? Yeeees...

[redfox2012]

Some alcoholics, when confronted with their problem, think “I know, I’ll use LSD.” Now they have two problems.

LSD can treat alcoholism

[Anonymous Coward]

Then what would I treat LSD with?

Re:LSD can treat alcoholism

[Forty Two Tenfold]

Weed.

Re:LSD can treat alcoholism

[marnues]

You probably meant "treat LSD addiction", but thankfully LSD is the best way to fight an LSD addiction. The 2 big mechanisms of drug abuse are tolerance and risk/reward. As humans build tolerance for most drugs slowly, our ability to use our risk/reward system is poor. LSD is different though, in that tolerance is developed incredibly quickly, such that not only is subsequent usage nearly pointless, mental cravings are non-existent.

How is this news?

[dmt0]

Some studies in the 1950s that used LSD to treat alcoholism professed a 50% success rate,[29] five times higher than estimates near 10% for Alcoholics Anonymous.[30] A 1998 review was inconclusive.[31]

https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Lysergic_acid_diethylamide#Alcoholism

Re:How is this news?

[Internetuser1248]

Yes this is old news, but I am glad it is finally getting reported, even if it is 50 years late. Alcholism does serious damage in society and the failure to use this technique is just another example of the horrific damage done by prohibition.

It should also be noted that this technique involved a certain type of therapy which is done while under the influence of the psychedelic, and part of the reason for the original suppression of these results was that anti-drug scientists who wanted to discredit the research did a study without the therapy. This basically amounted to shackling people on lsd to a bed alone and waiting. Naturally as this failed to work they claimed the other trial wasn't due to the drug at all. Since the 90's researchers have been working further along these lines using Ibogaine to get around prohibition and have discovered that it in fact works for virtually all addictive behaviour. There are clinics you an go to to get Ibogaine treatment for heroine and cocaine addiction.

tl:dr = LSD and other psychedelic drugs (with the correct therapy), whilst (relatively) harmless and non-addictive themselves, are the best cure so far found for all substance addiction. This has been known to the anti prohibition lobby for over 50 years but the results never make the mainstream media because they are controlled by those who profit from the war on drugs.

Re:How is this news?

[ananyo]

Some studies in the 1950s that used LSD to treat alcoholism professed a 50% success rate,[29] five times higher than estimates near 10% for Alcoholics Anonymous.[30] A 1998 review was inconclusive.[31]

https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Lysergic_acid_diethylamide#Alcoholism

Because it's a meta-analysis - like the story says. Each of the trials that wikipedia mentions is underpowered by itself - the results are not strongly significant even when they did show 'an effect'. The reason was they were often unable to recruit enough people for the trial. There were also trials that showed little effect (and as the review you quote says - the overall evidence was 'inconclusive'). This is the most comprehensive analysis to date of exactly those past studies - and the picture is more complete and convincing - there IS an effect.
The question is now - is there enough evidence to warrant a proper trial and collect the really important long term data?

Re:How is this news?

[Anonymous Coward]

The founder of Alcoholics Anonymous was inspired to create the organization because of LSD experiences he had and noticing how it affected his own alcoholism. I believe originally he wanted to include its use as part of the treatment, but for obvious reasons that did not work out.

This has been known since the 1960's

[stox]

Sadly, further research was abandoned due to the difficulties of getting permission from the government.

I could not agree more

[Anonymous Coward]

Posting as AC because I don't have an account. I took LSD this very last Saturday, and I can honestly say that having looked at myself and alcohol and what I realize it's been doing to me, I haven't touched it since or had a single craving. I mean, I'm not an alcoholic, I just drink a 6-pack of tall boys every night for a year, right? It was like turning a switch on and off. I dunno, I'm a reasonably happy person, so I think that it's easier for me to say all of this. "Treatment" for addiction (ANY addiction - even sugar) very rarely focuses on the actual underlying cause of the addiction. Yes, some people just like to party. But LSD has a way of making you look inward at yourself....

Re:I could not agree more

[Anonymous Coward]

Come back again in a month and we'll see if you're still sober.

In other news...

[ArsenneLupin]

... alcohol can treat LSD addiction.

Re:In other news...

[Anonymous Coward]

You can't get addicted to LSD.

Re:In other news...

[Colourspace]

Nor, apparently overdose on it as I was once told a long time back. By a teacher of mine. Anyone know if I was told the truth?

Re:In other news...

[Anonymous Coward]

the LD50 is about 6000 times the active dose.

Re:In other news...

[skids]

Depends what you mean by overdose.

Of course it can

[HikingStick]

If you saw your booze bottle as an angry little monster that wanted to bite your fingers off, you'd stop reaching for the bottle, too.

Re:I've seen phsychology reports differ.

[ArsenneLupin]

Long time alcoholics tend to suffer from a duality within the mind, the one who wants to stay sober, and the other that wants to drink.

That's what shandy is for...

Placebo

[Anonymous Coward]

If the placebo was 38% effective, then why not just give that to people? It may not be 60% (like LSD), but it's better than the 10-12% quoted for AA and has zero possible side effects.

Also, this seems to point to the fact that while alcoholism may be a disease, for some of the population at least it is purely mental (or there is no way a placebo would work).

Re:Placebo

[JTsyo]

I thought the same thing (and post so further up). One reason might that those that signed up for the experiment wanted to quit more than those in AA. I know courts send people to AA to help them clean up but the person has no desire to succeed.

Re:Placebo

[Cajun Hell]

[placebo] has zero possible side effects.

If they did have side effects, how would you know?

LSD not addictive

[Anonymous Coward]

LSD is many things. Addictive is not one of them. It is one of the few drugs demonstrably proven non-addictive. As in not even as addictive as caffeine or no-doz.

Next week, on 60 minutes...

[Yaddoshi]

Crystal Meth has been found to cure cancer!

In other breaking news...

[Narcocide]

Many drugs proven to be more fun than alcohol. News at 11.

Re:In other breaking news...

[Narcocide]

OOOOH someone involved in the study who was responsible for securing government funding took offense to my statement and had to mode me down huh? Next time you fuckers want to find something like this bullshit out I can save the taxpayers a few million dollars and you guys a few years of your lives by just giving you the same results myself with nothing more than the cost of a sheet of LSD and a case of brandy.

Fuckers.

None of the researchers got drunk during the study

[broknstrngz]

Q: How do you get rid of onion breath?
A: Eat some garlic.

Re:I've seen phsychology reports differ.

[K. S. Kyosuke]

LSD can cause a permanent splitting of the psychosis and the end result can be schizophrenia.

What exactly are the symptoms of a split psychosis? And if I don't have any psychosis to split in the first place, am I safe?

in related news...

[roc97007]

In related news, Pot is found to successfully treat some eating disorders, and Heroin is found to be helpful treating rebound headaches.

Methamphetamine is also good for weight loss

[scottbomb]

But it's certainly not recommended except for the morbidly obese (in which case the doses are very small compared to what an addict would use and the dispension is tightly controlled).

Death of The Ego

[Anonymous Coward]

The key thing to take away from an experience on Psilocybin or LSD is The Death of The Ego. That is the critical experience that changes people. No one can explain it to you if you've never done it. Essentially, there comes a time during the trip when you "aren't you" anymore, and a indescribable clarity follows. No, this can't be achieved via any other substances, especially alcohol. It's interesting to read the troll comments about this, as it's obvious they came from people who've never experienced it. Also interesting how some of the major contributors to computing and things High Tech used these substances, Steve Jobs among them.

Re:Death of The Ego

[Anonymous Coward]

The key thing to take away from an experience on Psilocybin or LSD is The Death of The Ego. ... used these substances, Steve Jobs among them.

I call BS. Steve Jobs's ego was obviously alive and well right up until the moment of his demise.

Re:Death of The Ego

[Brian Feldman]

You can achieve it with meditation, as well as with many other substances -- salvia, cannabis, ketamine, DMT, what have you. LSD happens to work very well, though, certainly. Every time I do it, I feel myself slowly becoming more sane.

Re:Death of The Ego

[Anonymous Coward]

Quoth AC: "..this can't be achieved via any other substances..."

ABSOLUTELY FALSE!. Any of the usual psychedelics will do, eg. mescaline, DMT, MDMA (or is it MMDA?), or almost any of Dr Shulgin's family of analog drugs (DOM, DOEt, DOC, DOB, DOI, ...). It can also be achieved through meditation, chanting, yoga, or some other practices.

Re:Death of The Ego

[Anonymous Coward]

If your ego can die and you proceed to exist, who are you?

Re:Death of The Ego

[deciduousness]

Certain uses of Yoga and Meditation have this same goal.

Re:Death of The Ego

[marnues]

I'd like to counter your definition of ego, but I don't know the lingo well enough to hold a conversation. I will contend that Steve Jobs did not have much of an ego, which is exactly why he was so insanely successful. Instead he had vision. His demanding everyone else stick to that vision is easily seen as ego.

For the real cure

[koan]

Read up on DMT.

Re:For the real cure

[ynot_reprise]

Or just watch this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=grcqs9cDuN8 :)

Re:LSD to cure Alcoholism? Yeeees...

[Anonymous Coward]

Trust you?!? Why would anyone do that? Are you an expert in the clinical use of LSD?

60s and 70s

[medv4380]

About the Time the CIA was doing "tests" to see if it would work as a truth serum. I would bet that the study was probably just a cover to test LSD on people. Even if LSD worked the drawback of Flashbacks or Persistent Hallucinations would make it unusable. Now if LSD were the cure for cancer then persistent hallucinations would be acceptable.

Re:60s and 70s

[ynot_reprise]

The notion of flashbacks and persistent hallucinations is bullshit and only perpetuated by people who have never tried LSD

Re:60s and 70s

[medv4380]

Not really. It's fools who've taken LSD and believe that any adverse side effects affect 100% of those who take it that perpetuate the belief that it is BS. If 44 people who've taken LSD and have persistent hallucinations and continue to have abnormal EEG patterns then it's a valid side effect.

Re:60s and 70s

[Brian Feldman]

No, it is not a valid side-effect because there is no control subject to test the sanity of the individual, post-LSD-experience, had they not taken LSD. It is mere coincidence and a domain named "sciencewhatever" does not change that. People have psychotic breaks because they have minds and they have "disorders," not because of "drugs."

Re:60s and 70s

[medv4380]

If you wish to perform a double blind study to convince yourself go ahead. You'll run into an ethics issue long before its run. I suppose you don't believe Ebola is deadly ether because you can't do a double blind study to find out that it's lethal ether. They could have been bleeding to death before the virus ever go to them.

Re:60s and 70s

[Anonymous Coward]

god, you're stupid, first there are no such thing as persistant hallucinations. Second, the big pharma doesn't want to "cure" cancer. They want to treat it so they can continue to make huge profits!!

Re:60s and 70s

[ynot_reprise]

You are showing just how much of a stooge you are by comparing LSD (a chemical compound that temporarily alters neuroactivity) and Ebola (a deadly flesh eating virus). I get it, LSD is not for everyone. But to say that it causes 'flashbacks' and 'persistant hallucinations' is patently false, and this is painfully obvious to anyone who has adventured outside our mundane consciousness.

Re:60s and 70s

[medv4380]

I'm actually comparing the ridiculousness or requiring outlandish requirements to determine if something is dangerous or not. Anything that can temporarily alter brain function can permanently alter brain function.

It's non-addictive

[teasea]

Demonstrably so. Well proven to be less addictive than no-doz and lollipops. All whose comments or arguments cite LSD addiction get a zero on this subject and should do a bit of further reading.

(Funny you should ask. Why no, I am not promoting the use of LSD.)

Gorillas to kill the snakes

[Jason Levine]

Why does this remind me of the Simpson's episode where they use lizards to kill pigeons, then snakes to kill the lizards, then gorillas to kill the snakes?

"We've cured his alcoholism with LSD."
"Yes, but now he's hooked on LSD."
"No problem. We can cure that with some cocaine."
"But then won't he be addicted to cocaine?"
"That's when we introduce him to crystal meth..."

Re:Gorillas to kill the snakes

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't know why it reminds you of this, since LSD not being addictive breaks that chain and you're just talking nonsense.

Re:Gorillas to kill the snakes

[Anonymous Coward]

But LSD isn't addictive. So your logic is flawed. Don't you get it? So as for reminding you of the Simpson's? Well, you remind me of Homer Simpson except you're even more stupid then he is. Geesh!!

Re:LSD to cure Alcoholism? Yeeees...

[teasea]

Trust me...then alcoholism is going to be the least of your problems.

You have knowledge that taking 250 mgs of LSD will so devastate the average person's life that alcoholism will be a comparatively insubstantial problem?

Go on...I'm fascinated.

Re:LSD to cure Alcoholism? Yeeees...

[Internetuser1248]

Which two problems are those? Can you quote statistics, clinical studies or even a single example? Just in case you don't know LSD is totally non addictive, in fact it is the opposite of addictive as it is so strong it creates a respect in the user who then often stops taking it because they are cautious about the intensity. Anyone who habitually takes LSD does so because they love it, and could give up any time (barring psychological addiction, which can happen with anything including posting on news boards)

Versus

[kstahmer]

A placebo versus LSD, double-blind versus cleansing the doors of perception, delirium tremens versus psychedelic consciousness; thinking is the best way to travel.

perfect solution

[Eponymous Hero]

put LSD in beer. or legalize it for sale at bars. brilliant. give me a nobel prize.

Re:LSD to cure Alcoholism? Yeeees...

[Vintermann]

Oh come on, regular expressions aren't like LSD. You don't get long term damage from an LSD experience.

Also, suicide effectively treats depression

[itwbennett]

Don't get me wrong, I'm all in favor of solving one problem with another, maybe bigger one.

Re:Also, suicide effectively treats depression

[bussdriver]

Is suicide a problem? bigger than the overpopulation problem?

Re:Also, suicide effectively treats depression

[marnues]

Nice straw-man. How about you add something useful to the conversation instead?

This proves no such thing

[Anonymous Coward]

The only thing this proves it that if you search hard enough, you can eventually find some statistical anomaly that appears to support whatever issue you're desperately trying to justify.

Re:This proves no such thing

[Colourspace]

FYI, in marketing, it's called a 'corner case'.

The Real Test of a "Safe" Drug

[retroworks]

The folks making LSD in the 1980s that I knew were all hippy communes. No marijuana drug wars in Mexico, no Columbia cocaine wars, no Al Capone St. Valentines Day massacres. Perhaps the utility of a psychotropic drug should be measured by how peaceful its distribution system is while it's illegal. I'd tend to let LSD off for good behavior, obviously nobody is hooked on it enough to want to kill other people or pay other people so much that they are willing to kill people.

Cured my acne

[Anonymous Coward]

What you see is so much sharper/clearer and music is just indescribably good.
Funniest show I thought I'd ever seen was Sesame street which just happened to be on, we howled with laughter.
That was so long ago... and no, no flashbacks sadly.

In other news

[bkaul01]

Guillotines effectively cure headaches.

Ibogaine.

[Xoltri]

I watched a really interesting show called Drugs Inc. The talked about one psychadelic drug called Ibogaine that can be used to cure opiate addiction. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibogaine#Treatment_for_opioid_addiction

The show is worth watching for sure.

Re:Ibogaine.

[Anonymous Coward]

I hope everyone doesn't mind this being submitted as AC, but talking about past addiction is hard knowing my friends and family that read slashdot might read...
 
That said, I used to have a massive painkiller addiction. House style, popping every few minutes. Now, it was doctor aided, as I had massive pain, and was more functional filled to the gills on opiates than when in screaming agony. When the FDA harassed my doctor about all the opiates he prescribed me, he rotated me to another doctor to keep it up. I eventually had a very experimental surgery done to correct my pain problem, which worked. Downside was I realized I was now massively addicted to painkillers for no reason.
 
  This was a dark week for me. I would go to AC Moore and buy decorative dried poppies, and make myself poppy tea. I would buy from dealers. BUTIt was only a dark "week". I flew to the UK, which was cheaper than continuing an addiction, got into an ibogaine clinic, and left 48 hours later with absolutely no cravings or withdrawal. That was ten years ago, and I haven't had any problem with opiates since. I even felt comfortable taking the codeine after I had a tooth pulled, and didn't suddenly "relapse".
 
Now, LSD tends to be pleasant, and introspective, right? My experience with Ibogaine was far from that. For one it broke my perspective of time while my brain whirled away, so it felt much longer than it was. Eons long. The second I was in a place that can only be described as "hell". Now I'm not religious at all, and I don't mean demons tormenting you, ironic punishments, pits of fire, or any of that. I mean it was the single most horrifying torture for an eternity. So "hellish" seems an apt word.
 
  Maybe my experience isn't the common one, but I honestly wonder why it's schedule one in the USA. It works. It works incredibly well. And with an experience that bad is not exactly "habit forming". Unless you are *really* into torture. Maybe Mel Gibson would snort a line in the morning, but not the rest of us. And why they give methadone to addicts instead of this, continuing their addiction atone cravings, instead of this, is really mind blowing.

Funny.

[Anonymous Coward]

In this order I have become addicted to the following on a pretty much full time basis: Tobacco, Alcohol and the 60mg Prozac I have to take a day to deal with life.

E? Can't really handle the stuff. Love it, but I've embarrassed myself on more than one occasion as more than one or at most two pills is too much for me. I end up trying to tell peoples ankles how much I love them.

Tried Ketamine a couple of years ago. I suspect I did too much at the time (it being my first and all) but I won't give that a second chance. 'Being in the closet talking to God' is the most accurate description I've heard of anything, ever.

Cocaine? Had a bit of a fling with it around 2005-2006, but got over that. Just

Could smoke pot for the UK Olympic team, but then I don;t smoke skunk anymore.

LSD? Never had a bad trip personally and I swear it has unlocked parts of my mind that would never have been accessible otherwise.

I drink and smoke every day. Now tell me what is the most damaging drug?

I find it hard to get LSD nowadays but I would trip for the next week if it meant giving up the real crap.

Of course

[Anonymous Coward]

Tries to drink from bottle. It's a Klein bottle. Oh wow. Vodka on one side, rum on the other. Wait. Klein bottles have only one side. How can this be? Far out. Tries to drink from bottle. Which bottle? Now there's two. You know, if you pour the liquor into a glass, it's like the liquor never really left the world of glass. That's fascinating.

(the next day) I'm not hung over, and I have a whole new perspective on liquor bottles.

Everyone Already Knows This

[Anonymous Coward]

If you want some good information on hallucinogens refer to an old documentary called "The Beyond Within". Hallucinogenic psychiatric trials were covered in this documentary long before this article ever came out.

I know a lot about hallucinogens and did a lot of them when I was younger and not just because I wanted to get messed up. The reality is that naturally occurring hallucinogens such as Peote or Psilosybin Mushrooms will essentially reset your head. If you've ever done natural hallucinogens then you know for about a week afterwords your head is clear as can be. Addictive habits like smoking cigarettes can disappear for days before they come back. I always described it like when you get back from the gym. Yeah you're body is tired, but the workout will make it function better in the long run. Just don't do it every day, or you'll end up schizophrenic.

I don't know why they include LSD in this information as LSD is a dirty hallucinogen that's processed. Treat any processed drug the way you treat processed food; think hot dog when I say processed. LSD messes with serotonin levels in your head whereas naturally occurring drugs like psilosyn replace existing neurotransmitters so after a good nights rest from a day of tripping you find yourself with a clear head and very alert.

Re:LSD to cure Alcoholism? Yeeees...

[TheGratefulNet]

Oh come on, regular expressions aren't like LSD

one time I was tripping on regex and I thought I was seeing stars, man!

Who cares.

[Anonymous Coward]

Here's a fun fact - people responsible for decisions that govern our every day lives don't really care about reality. Thus you can make five gazillion scientific studies and nothing will change until peoples fears and superstitions do.

Re:I've seen phsychology reports differ.

[Anne_Nonymous]

>> ..and knowing is half the battle.

more than half the bottle too.

I agree

[Anonymous Coward]

I couldn't take it all the time but every week end. Some trips were useless but extremely enjoyable. I remember one time I was supposed to go out with friends to clubs and things, we had a designated driver as we did trip responsibly. But things got cancelled last minute after I had already dropped 2 hits. I sat there watching Hogan's Hero's and I love Lucy reruns and thinking they were the greatest shows on the planet. So while a wasted night, it sure was a lot of fun. However other times I had great incite into my future, my relationships with people, and a lot of really in depth thoughts. Sometimes my thoughts would run away with me. Also sometimes I would get on the computer and create things. I was and am a programmer and some of my inventions that were patented were imagined and thought about while on trips. I was also a musician and while not for a living many times I played for hours at a time exploring tedious and redundant musical theories and fully understanding them. Sometime I would just practice playing. I also learned to do things I do now still that sometimes people take for granted. There were times I just took a walk in the night air. Not far just a few miles. Sometimes with a purpose and sometimes with no destination in mind. I still love the night air. Another fantastic trip was with me and a friend of mine. We went to a drive in theater. We watched one a double feature of 2 sci-fi films. There was a clear night above us and we could see all the stars, however behind the movie screen way off in the distance was a summer thunderstorm with lightning. Talk about tuning into the beauty of nature with sci fi thrown in to boot. If you were wondering, Terminator was the movie ;-) Many fantastic nights and many great friend ships were shared on LSD that I will never forget. Even many just single night adventures or days alone. I am with you. I sure wish LSD was more readily available. The world could really use a good trip.

Re:LSD to cure Alcoholism? Yeeees...

[Brian Feldman]

Wow, I'm used to microgram dosage... I can't even fathom what a 1/4th gram of acid would do.

Best news I've heard ALL DAY

[Anonymous Coward]

I'd gladly switch, too

Yes!

[Anonymous Coward]

You, JeanCroix, just made my day :D

Non AC repost - Funny

[Colourspace]

Sorry - new build machine, didn't mean to AC... In this order I have become addicted to the following on a pretty much full time basis: Tobacco, Alcohol and the 60mg Prozac I have to take a day to deal with life. Before anyone comments on the Prozac/Drugs cycle - I've suffered depression forever, long before I tried anything I 'shouldn't have'.. But I have no regrets on the whole - but weirdly alcohol takes responsibility for 99.9% of those regrets I truly do. Yes less drugs over the years may well have made a difference, but too late to know for sure now. Putting that aside.. E? Can't really handle the stuff. Love it, but I've embarrassed myself on more than one occasion as more than one or at most two pills is too much for me. I end up trying to tell peoples ankles how much I love them. Tried Ketamine a couple of years ago. I suspect I did too much at the time (it being my first and all) but I won't give that a second chance. 'Being in the closet talking to God' is the most accurate description I've heard of anything, ever. Cocaine? Had a bit of a fling with it around 2005-2006, but got over that. Just in time, I think. Still like the odd nosebleed but always end up with a porn bill. Could smoke pot for the UK Olympic team, but then I don't smoke skunk anymore. LSD? Never had a bad trip personally and I swear it has unlocked parts of my mind that would never have been accessible otherwise. I genuinely feel a more rounded person for the times I've taken it (maybe 15 times over the past 23 years?) I drink and smoke every day. Now tell me what is the most damaging drug? I wake up every day hacking my lungs up due to 'light' cigarrettes, ans surely at 20 a day I'd hardly be considered heavy, even by today's standards. Having said that, it's always horses for courses. If it wasn't, Slashdot probably would have burnt itself out through too much agreement a long time ago. I find it hard to get LSD nowadays but I would trip for the next week if it meant giving up the crap I currently find myself spending too much on and really actually damaging my health with.

Re:Non AC repost - Funny

[Xoltri]

Haha your sig is funny. Check out Kava root, maybe it will relax you.

Can't drink now

[DarthVain]

too fucked up!

Also when an yellow bulger dragon from the planet rubelon who is friends with a vulture riding kitten with two heads tells you to quit drinking, you quit drinking.

38% with the placebo?

[spiffmastercow]

Man, this placebo is a wonder drug! It doesn't work as well as most drugs at any one thing, but it works somewhat well on most everything!

And mushrooms cause lasting happiness

[ExecutorElassus]

A federally-funded study found that a single large dose of psilocybin can result in that quality called "openness," which most psychologists agree is a foundation of general happiness. Naturally, magic mushrooms - which literally grow on shit, everywhere - are illegal as hell.

I made a poem.

[Anonymous Coward]

Firmly I remain uprooted,
disregarded, dis-reputed,
distant now from home and harbor
listing, bow and bridge, to starboard,
Days of drifting, mire and mist
made bliss by snap of sail and hiss
of iron wheel to steel of rail
and kiss of boot and soul to trail

Never cease I searching
crease-ed faces softly showing
pathless places, ancient knowing
finding brilliant, biting freedom
Once was bound, now far from boundary
feeling bondless, still the foundries
echo songless in the night.

So many men who never had, or lost, or sold
what I hold dear will laugh or sneer
at what they do not understand

-Jeff

As to whether or not I wasted my time, you may be the judge of that. I can't honestly say that I care very much, either way!

Re:I made a poem.

[marnues]

As to whether or not I wasted my time, you may be the judge of that. I can't honestly say that I care very much, either way!

I need to do more yoga and take more acid. One of these days my give-a-shit meter will function as properly as yours!

Psychadelics need to be studied, and used properly

[Anonymous Coward]

Damn, I wish.

I did lots of acid in my twenties.. For example, LSD has 100% tolerance increase, but it only lasts for a few days, if that. For example, in those days I had lots of it around.. and it was quality. trip on 1 hit on day 1. On day 2 it takes 2 for the same level of trip. (everyone knows every trip is different, but the same perceived strength). 3rd day it took 4, then 8, etc...I routinely went to 8, 16, as high as 32 more than once and I never have had a flashback. I have had similar feelings here and there when exposed to marijuana, but never what could be called a "flashback" as I've heard them described. And it already has a built-in prevention for long-term abuse, as if that is even a real possibility to begin with..

These days I wouldnt trip, just because it such an intense experience and requires such a commitment of time and emotion that I am just not willing to go there.. As far as the benefits of LSD, I would put it this way.. "it forces introspection.". Whatever is bugging you, small concerns needling you, particularly issues if self-consciousness, are brought out and you have no choice but to face them. You can't hide from yourself.. I think in this way it makes sense that it could treat alcoholism.. as could any number of psychadelics..

I truly believe that psychadelics should be something that is embraced by a society and its culture. There should be people experimenting, documenting, and prescribing them. Bad trips are REALLY REALLY bad, but in the proper setting, completely manageable.. just remind yourself that the trip is temporary, and talk them down.. if there were people around who acted as the equivalent of shamen, we could take all of these psychadelic substances and properly utilize them. Aren't we mature enough yet as a civilization that we can quit pretending like psychadelic substances are so dangerous that just possession of them can be punishable by decades in a penitentiary?!

It's fscking ridiculous.. we cant even legalize marijuana, but sell cigarettes and alcohol on every corner. I suspect that many would agree with me, but until we can get out and vote and put people with similar rational and open minds in our government nothing will change.

Spiders on drugs

[Deathmoo]

http://youtu.be/sHzdsFiBbFc

I'm sure many have seen this; Canadian wildlife foundation experiment feeding different drugs to spiders.

Re:LSD to cure Alcoholism? Yeeees...

[Thing 1]

Laughed out loud, thank you sir. Few people have experienced the power of both (well, I suppose, unless they went to Berkeley).

Re:LSD to cure Alcoholism? Yeeees...

[kelemvor4]

Oh come on, regular expressions aren't like LSD. You don't get long term damage from an LSD experience.

Have you ever known someone who suffered long term damage from a regex?

reasonable discussion abound...

[Anonymous Coward]

is slashdot full of educated nerds, or socially inept basement-dwelling group-thinkers?

i've seen an awful lot of "addicted to lsd instead of alcohol, lol!" posts.

LSD is non-addictive, is not known to cause brain damage, and has extremely low toxicity relative to dose.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lsd
http://www.maps.org/w3pb/new/2008/2008_Passie_23067_1.pdf

if you lot know something the neuroscientists and pharmacologists don't, then by all means, feel free to edit the wiki.

Alcohol cravings reduction also from Kapikachhu

[badzilla]

Kapikachhu, AKA "Mucuna pruriens", AKA "Velvet Bean"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mucuna_pruriens

Something to do with the way its dopamine content affects the reward stimuli feedback system. Definitely works I've tried it.

Re:Very easy to comment

[marnues]

Neither the title nor the summary had a question. What if anything were you trying to say?

There Are a Lot of Very Misinformed People Here

[steppedleader]

For the large number of people posting here about how this will just turn alcoholics into LSD addicts, read some actual research. This article and the linked to study within is a good place to start: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11660210

Not only is LSD not addictive, it is among the safest recreational drugs known.

I've never tried it, and it isn't entirely without risks (what is?), but there really doesn't seem to be much reason to be scared of it relative to most other drugs. If it really helps with alcoholism, using it for treating that addiction would probably be a great thing both for alcoholics and society.

Re:There Are a Lot of Very Misinformed People Here

[steppedleader]

Not that I really blame any of you for being misinformed, BTW. In the US at least, there's been a heck of a lot of money and effort put in to misinforming people about this sort of stuff for a long time now.

Mandatory Viewing for the uneducated

[Anonymous Coward]

In 2002 Concepta Film finished a film called "Hofmann's Potion: The Early Years of LSD".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SaqJX-aP0Jc

"ATOM BOMB CURE" is the phrase that all you need to know.

Re:LSD to cure Alcoholism? Yeeees...

[skids]

Yeah, I'd say that much would probably be pretty dangerous and put one at risk of Serotonin Syndrome.

Not that many people will find themselves in a room with that much LSD, but please folks, when talking of drug doses, get your orders of magnitude right.

Relavent XKCD

[Anonymous Coward]

http://xkcd.com/790/

oblig: (Jerry Garcia)

[mevets]

Somebody has to do something, and it's just incredibly pathetic that it has to be us.

Silk Road

[Anonymous Coward]

The Silk Road Marketplace, people! This shit is really easy to get. Just grab some bitcoins, head down to http://silkroadvb5piz3r.onion, choose your poison and watch your mailbox.

Re:LSD to cure Alcoholism? Yeeees...

[teasea]

forgot the c. Must have been sitting on it.

You know nothing!

[Anonymous Coward]

I thought this was proposed, tested, and rejected, thoroughly and soundly, back in the late fifties. Then the CIA took an interest in the "side effects" and rEasons it was rejected, and tested it with a mind toward truth serum. It didn't do to well as that, so they tried it as a battle conditioner. Failing that, one guy in the CIA asked to try it with their artichoke program and ended up creating the monster known as monarch, later mk-ultra. According to court records the program was sued in Canada for dosing elementary school children with it and sexually molesting them in order to create what they were finding was an optimal psychological background for forcibly creating dissociative personality and multiple personality disorder, formulaically. These conditions were necessary for the end result of adults whose minds contain alternatuve personalities that are hypnotically programmed to kill, or fuck, commit suicide, or memorize and recite codes. The core persknality would also be hypnotically prepared to change to one of these alter personalities upon receiving specially prepared triggers. Allegedly the program was stopped when LSD began showing up in agents' coffee because the guys heading up the program were told they'd have free reign of testing surreptitiously. An agent freaked and jumped out of an office window and it caused an obviously unwanted scene. The technology had become common knowledge to many other governments, though, because of its effectiveness albeit limited. Once the programming methods were understood, the Chinese would try deprogramming any suspected hypnotic spies, and foundnit fairly easy. They woukd reprogram these people as their own double spies, and the Chinese conditioning was found harder to break, which is bad news. There is no telling, really, who if anyone is currently programmed using the same process or for what purposes. It's not likely something that disappeared just because the CIA decided to stop using it in the open. It makes more sense to dothis to someone in another country anyway, especially when the best result is obtained not through life-and-health threatening torture of adults (an alternative that can threaten to fall apart and result in the personalities becoming inter-aware contiguous with the core) but through the sexual molestation of children under the influence of LSD. Makes me wonder what so many of our elected representatives and other personnel have been doing so openly going overseas to buy sex from trafficked children. Anyways, the whole guilt-trip tripping people out of drinking by confronting them with the complaints of their alcoholically abused families was supposedly the last stage of the LSD cure forndrinking that was tried and failed. But this was decades after the US began messing with hypnotic couriers in World War I, and then expanded upon it in World War II. In case it sounds toonfar out to you, check out: projects artichoke, bluebird, monarch, mk-ultra, anton mesmer, and then head to foia at cia.gov to pull up the documents on mk-ultra and see how many juicy names you can tease out from behind the oldschool black sharpie blotouts. Nothing countless others havent done, and, unlike investigating the strange Foster suicide, it typically doesn't get you killed or disappeared.

Let me also clarify:

The alcoholics ddnt know wtf lsd was

Equaly numbers of lsd users ALSO swear on their first tripnthat theyll never use LSD again (many scream it)

Drink Less?

[Anonymous Coward]

Not the ones I knew in college who tripped. You had to hide the beer from them or you wouldn't have any for yourself. They difinitely gave new meaning to the term hollow leg.

Re:LSD to cure Alcoholism? Yeeees...

[Anonymous Coward]

Check out the posts by ChinaCat:

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/1427364

Re:LSD to cure Alcoholism? Yeeees...

[Anonymous Coward]

Set, setting, dose and don't forget genetic disposition to schizophrenia.

That is correct: With a catch

[Anonymous Coward]

Hello, my name is Anonymous and I am a drug addict and alcoholic.

When I was a teenager, I was engaging in very unhealthy alcohol and substance abuse patterns. That all changed nearly 25 years ago, when I took LSD for the second time. The trip is what acid heads call a "bad trip", but it was a very beneficial trip for me. I realized, during this trip, the extent of my powerlessness over alcohol and drugs. I realized I was lying to myself about how bad the drugs really were, and that I had no power to stop abusing alcohol and drugs.

Because of this trip, I sought treatment by going to 12-step meetings. Today, I am in a service position at a 12-step meeting, and am about to celebrate 25 years clean and sober. People are amazed how young I look; I explain that, when alcohol and drugs are not in the body, the body ages more slowly.

Bill Wilson, the founder of Alcoholics Anonymous and the writer of the 12 steps I use to stay clean and sober (as well as living life today), also felt that LSD can help an alcoholic or drug addict hit bottom and have what we call an "essential spiritual experience" that can keep us free from abusive chemicals.

For an LSD experience like this to work, it was necessary for me to seek treatment and to work with other recovering alcoholics and addicts. It is also necessary for me to never use alcohol or LSD (or any other illegal drug) again; I have a relationship with a higher power I call God today from the 12 steps.

LSD Causes Alcoholism, doesn't cure it

[Anonymous Coward]

Most LSD burnouts become alcoholics its just a fact. This study is ridiculous- this can cure alcoholism...provided the participant continues to use LSD. There is no intoxicant that is the be all end all of intoxicants. Its like saying the cure for Slashdot is Reddit. Altogether- there is no real substitute for trying to stand out among a vast sea of individuals that have no experience in life. There is no substitute for having a less than desirable life either hence the Alcohol and LSD.

Re:Go figure, Other medical uses

[Anonymous Coward]

It is not LSD itself as a whole, it is certain compounds that are extracted and used.. The author should have added that into the quote. This treatment has been used to help heroin users just quit without wanting to go back and use again. LSD itself has been used to relieve if not completely eliminate migraines. As far a cluster headaches, researchers use a certain compounds from LSD, to prevent those patients from having 'trips'.

I did not read the entire article beyond slashdot, but would be shocked if they left out, what I just mentioned. Then again slashdot posters may have also already said the same thing.

I have to call BS on this one.

[Anonymous Coward]

I know plenty of drunks who take acid and still never kicked the booze.

In fact if anything allows me to drink unlimitedly it is taking a hit of acid.

The War On Drugs ...

[surfcow]

The War On Drugs
does More Damage
than the Drugs.

Go Small

[Anonymous Coward]

The typical hit of acid is -way- too much. The psychoactive effects of a much smaller dose are quite different than the typical trip off a full hit.

One time, I got ahold of some windowpane (acid mixed with geletin that is poured out to make a very thin sheet)

Since it is homogonous, you can shave off a very small bit and get a tiny "trip".

Nothing like visuals and heavy tripping and introspection, more like slightly mood-altering. Less trippy than smoking a joint, really. But the positive/spiritual feeling is there if you're not so focused on 'tripping'.

I definitely believe that you could get good theraputic effects at low dosages in a guided experience.

Re:Psychadelics need to be studied, and used prope

[Flipstylee]

This. I've had a few TERRIBLE trips, and knowing now that a 4-8 hour good trip will be 1 hour bad, i don't regret it.
The confrontation is what wowed me the most, even more than watching candles trade places on a glass table, more so than seeing myself from above, GTA 2
view while walking up the street (loved that), and the actual "feel" of nature, the trees, the fire etc.

I won't go into my whole story, but, it's something every living person should experience once, safely, legaly, openly.
Anyone who knows what i'm talking about will tell you.

Impostor

[Anonymous Coward]

If you were really from the 60s then you would have used "man" instead of "dude".

Re:Impostor

[jamstar7]

Dude, if you remember the 60's, you weren't there.

Having experienced first hand ...

[Rambo Tribble]

... the Microgram Wars of the '60s and '70s, as well as the broad range of consumptive behaviours directly associated with said campaigns, I'll have to admit I'm sceptical.

LDS

[matt_martin]

Living in Arizona, I was led to believe that LDS could cure alcoholism.
How dyslexic of me !

It looks interesting

[Anonymous Coward]

http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?db=comics&id=1190#comic

Re:I've seen phsychology reports differ.

[joleonard1]

Long time Acid heads tend to suffer from a duality within the mind, the one that's laughing, and the other that's screaming. http://youtu.be/oxpcZrQQM-4

Anything can be addictive

[davidwr]

LSD may not be physically addictive but like anything it can be psychologically addictive.

Hi, I'm davidwr. and I'm a /.aholic who has no desire to be "in recovery" from this particular addiction. I'm also a non-recovering chocoholic and a lot of other things-aholic.

Re:LSD to cure Alcoholism? Yeeees...

[Anonymous Coward]

you should know psychological addiction can be vary strong. see cocaine for example
not saying lsd leads to such strong temptation just correcting

Re:Go figure, Other medical uses

[jersey_emt]

LSD is a single compound.

Is the cure worse than the disease?

[ananthap]

OK

Re:Very easy to comment

[mapkinase]

"No" is not necessarily the answer to the question. It could be an answer to a statement. In this case, to the statement "LSD Can Treat Alcoholism".

Medications for Alcoholism and Alcohol Abuse

[NewYork]

http://health.nytimes.com/health/guides/disease/alcoholism/medications.html