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Xbox 720 a No-show At This Year's E3
itwbennett writes "Microsoft dropped a bomb yesterday: they won't be showing new hardware this year or 'anytime soon.' Microsoft told Kotaku that '2012 is all about Xbox 360.' Meanwhile, Bloomberg's mysterious sources are saying that Microsoft 'may show the successor to its Xbox 360 in June 2013 at the E3 conference and put it on sale that same year.' This would 'be a fast journey from announcement to launch,' says Peter Smith, 'but it'd mean we'd still get a new Xbox for holiday 2013, which is about the earliest anyone has expected it to arrive anyway.'"
Because Xbox 720 sounds like 720p and Microsoft is not that stupid.
Second comment FTW!
Microsoft issues a press release to announce that they're not going to announce anything. And it makes the headlines of Slashdot. And I'm reading it on a Friday night. That's it, I'm off to drink beer, even if it isn't free.
The next XBOX will be teased at this E3, but nothing concrete will be shown.
It will be revealed in the Fall, probably through some shitty alternate reality game culminating in some MTV / other mass media "first look" at the console.
You'll then get a drip feed of information until E3 2013, which will be the big blowout and release date / pricing announcement.
In Fall of 2013 you will be able to buy it. Pick from 3 different SKUs priced at $399 (base shit), $499 (more storage, comes with Kinect 2) , and $599 (even more storage, Kinect 2, fancy headset, stupid shit you don't care about, possibly more Live! Gold credit).
I guarantee it.
I wonder if all the hold up is in figuring out the overheating issue
that, approaching a decade by this speculated release, has had
me go through 5 unit returns and opening 2 others.
The 360 was released in 2005 and still going strong. If you bought one then and avoided RROD, you're still good to go. Meanwhile ipods from then have been thrown away, your computer from 2005 is a dinosaur that you keep to run Linux on, your cell phone from 2005 has been somewhere in the back of your closet since 2006, your TV from 2005 needs a digital tuner, your DVD player from 2005 won't play Blu-Ray...
Slashdot: providing anti-social weirdos a soapbox, since 1997.
I highly doubt they will unveil plans for a new device before the holiday shopping season is over - otherwise a potential consumer might hold off on making a purchase until the new system is out. Chances are they will wait until the after major retail outlet return policy has expired before they make their next-next gen plans known...
Dungeon Tactics : Free Open Source SRPG
Count on the cheapest SKU being a boat anchor that drags down the lowest common denominator for any games developed on all the other platforms. Also figure that MS will demand gratuitous Kinect functionality built into everything similar to how Sony demanded tilt control in every PS3 game.
No optical drive at all, download only, is certainly a likely possibility. Then again I've been buying all my PC games like that, so ...
Bloomberg's Mysterious Source: Microsoft will show the Xbox 720 this year!
Microsoft: No we won't.
Bloomberg's Mysterious Source: Microsoft will show the Xbox 720 next year!
Next we'll hear that Microsoft was planning on showing it this year, but something happened at the last minute and they couldn't. So the rumor-monger wasn't wrong--it was a last minute change.
Gads, they're as bad as the Apple rumor mongers.
Yay, another bullshit console that's going to be obsolete and replaced by some other POS the year after that...
Really? You can say many things about consoles, but short lived is usually not one of them (for successful ones at least). If anything, IMO, this generation has worn out its welcome. Then again, I am primarily a PC gamer.
Slow Down Cowboy! It's been 1 hour, 47 minutes since you last successfully posted a comment
I consider myself a hardcore gamer. Thousands of hours of gaming a year every year. But my backlog of games is enormous for this generation. I literally just stared Mass Effect 1 today and I've yet to begin Skyrim or Final Fantasy 13 as well. I've also got a pile of PS3 games, including Uncharted 1, that I've yet to open the box for.
But for the Nintendo Wii I've exhausted the top quality games for that system. And no one makes new games for that system anymore either. So it's perfect time for Nintendo to release another console.
But the 360 and the PS3? There are years left in those systems. We've only gotten one God of War game the PS3. And only one Metal Gear Solid as well. SONY and MS in their console Cold War arms race are going to cut off their noses to spite their faces by killing this generation of consoles early.
Beating Sony to the target may be the goal.
The 360, even if a marginally inferior machine took a large part of the console market thanks to beating Sony to the market. The benefits of the Sony didn't match the price difference.
Wii took an even larger part using the killer combination of just about enough good graphics and a much lower price.
Being 1st to the market is probably what they're after, again.
My computer from 2005 had better stats then the 360, how is it a dinosaur but the xbox 360 is still relevant? The release of the 360 effectively halted all advancements in PC gaming technology, as modern cross platform development strategy dictates that any technology driven cutting edge features in cross platform titles need to be homogenized across the divergent systems they are designed to run on.
Dungeon Tactics : Free Open Source SRPG
If you bought one then and avoided RROD, then never use it.
You mean, if you bought it and avoided the RRoD (which my friend just encountered after three years with his machine) *AND* avoided the E74 error (which I ran into several 360s ago) *AND* avoided the optical drives that fail and stop reading DVDs so you can't play games anymore (just happened to me for the second time), then you're still good to go. Assuming you also aren't tired of looking at increasingly tired graphics and goofy looking models of human beings that animate poorly (yes, PC PC PC -- but no matter how powerful my computer is, I don't want to play *all* my games hunched over a desk *all* the time).
I am currently on my fifth or sixth 360.
First one died after 100hrs of use (but those 100hrs took more than the year of warranty). The optical drive stopped reading discs. Not covered. This is a VERY common failure of 360s. Google it.
Second one died of an E74 error after almost no use over the period of a year or so. Not covered.
Third system stolen in a home invasion.
Fourth system just stopped turning on. Even with another power brick.
Fifth system just recently died of another failed optical drive. It would only recognize games about 25% of the time -- and when it would read the discs, it would make a horrible noise and also scratch the disc.
So, I'm personally on my sixth machine. My fifth due to Microsoft. And on top of that, I've bought a 360 for a family member, bought one for a friend, and bought another for a random person who was on hard times that I read about in a news paper that had all their shit stolen.
In this same time? My original PS3 is still kicking ass. So is my PS3 Slim. In fact, my PS2 and PS1 also work. So does my GameCube, N64, SNES, NES, Sega Master System, Sega Genesis, Game Gear, Lynx, Nomad, GameBoy, GBA, Atari Jaguar. In fact, all of my Atari's and my Odyssey II still work (Atari 2600 dating back to 1977).
But I'm on my sixth 360.
Insightful, really? Might as well have just posted 'Use Linux!" as that would have gotten a +5 I'm sure for the fanboi perception bubbles we have here. Hell i don't even own a console but how can anybody say the consoles are "going to be obsolete and replaced by some other POS the year after" when if anything its the VERY LONG LIFE of the current gen that has held back PC gaming? Not that I can blame Sony and MSFT as we ARE in a recession after all and MSFT is riding high this round so why should they rush? Plenty of people seem to be happy with their system, sales are good, if it ain't broke.
I don't know, maybe its just me, but when i look at games like Just Cause II and the Bioshock series and the FEAR series and HL 2 games I have to wonder if we are reaching the point that games like PCs are "good enough" and are becoming a case of diminishing returns on graphics. I mean there is only so much bling bling bullshit you can look at while dodging hellfire raining down on your ass, I know that in the above games never did i have an instance where the graphics took me out of the game and ultimately isn't that what matters? that there is enough suspension of disbelief we can just enjoy the experience? Frankly how many games have you played lately that THIS description would fit "Killer graphics but sucky game"? Personally I'd take Far Cry I or even No One Lives Forever II or Freelancer level graphics for a kick ass story, characters I care about, a good weapon system, great balance, and levels that are interesting. In a way i hope the X360 and PS3 last another couple of years as maybe, just maybe, if the devs can't just keep piling on bling they'll have to spend those resources elsewhere like on what i just mentioned. One can hope.
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
Congratulations! You win, well, you ought to win something for all that heartache.
Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
It's not clear from your comment, but I think what you're trying to say is you're on your sixth Xbox 360. Correct?
Or would that just be a completely backwards idea?
I'm still holding out hope for a Valve Companion Cube / GabeCube / ValveBox / whatever with HL3...
Insightful, really? Might as well have just posted 'Use Linux!" as that would have gotten a +5 I'm sure for the fanboi perception bubbles we have here
You still butthurt about that? Your entire rant about Linux strongly put you in the MS fanboi category.....
However, I do agree that consoles have done very little to hold back PC gaming. I think we hit diminishing returns some time ago. Not enough attention paid to plot and AI.
If anything, consoles could have been pushing PC gaming forward with their draconian DRM and complete disregard for the consumers. The rumored upcoming suport on the 720 to ban used game sales certainly put some fire on the Internets.
Of course, Sony needs no help looking like dicks to their consumers. No help at all. Quite frankly, their next console better come with a blowjob machine if they think they can win back the hearts and minds of the people they screwed over.
Going strong? Developers are still coding for "640p" and small worlds to fit in with this old plastic box.
The low cpu, low gpu art is then passed onto PC games so we are all stuck in 2004.
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
Sounds right on except for the prices. Last time someone tried for a "standard" @ $500, it didnt work so well.
The replacement for one of the two consoles that have stated since day one that these would be at LEAST 10 year consoles, is not going to come out after 7 years of production ... in other news ...
NO SHIT.
Diving into anecdotes, I have a 2005 360 myself (borrowed indefinitely from somebody who didn't have any time to play it). Works fine.
My PS1 and PS2s both broke, PS1s were crap quality. Dreamcast laser misaligned and was too expensive to fix, got a new one. Atari 7800 RF converter got crappy and snowy, and now getting all the converters to hook it up to a modern TV is a huge bother, I just use an emulator (within an emulator, since I'm on a Mac) if I want to play it.
It's not like nobody makes PC-exclusive games. The large majority of games for the PC aren't console ports. You could easily be a PC gamers and never play a single console port. It's just, the most popular, best-produced games are console ports. If you don't like them, don't play them.
The lack of PC games that are more popular than console ports seems to indicate either:
1) Some sort of massive conspiracy where major corporation forego earning money, in order to piss off fanboys.
2) Consoles ports actually aren't clearly inferior to PC games.
Slashdot: providing anti-social weirdos a soapbox, since 1997.
A throwaway culture and an upgrade culture are two different things. iPods effectively have effectively not changed much between successive releases. At the core they still do what they did previously with the same quality and effect. The original iPod plays music just as well as the latest gen iPod. The only real departure was the iPod nanos and the iPod touch which effectively were a different product to suit a different need.
The XBOX360 on the other hand is now a clear sign of a stagnated product. Do you think we should still be using CGA screens too? The entire industry is currently stuck making games that support these ancient bits of kit and effectively newer innovations in graphics are completely absent in most newly released games. It is time for an upgrade, hell it's overdue. We need an upgrade or we need manufacturers to stop supporting this old brick.
As a side note Mass Effect 3 was released last week and runs perfectly fine on my 5 year old PC at max resolution and every graphic option cranked to 11. A brand new game which has no sign of things such as tessellation (which is a DirectX 11 feature demonstrated back in 2010).
It is time to move on. Modern technology is capable of much better.
i think that's the smart move...The second you announce a new product, people stop buying the current one along with its accessories. I'd make the announcement of the xbox 720 a week before it comes out. What? It won't still sellout or something?
Is this true? Man, console games aren't going to leap into better graphics until 2015???
I'd love to see some sort of sort of source from 2005 about that...
In fact, my PS2 and PS1 also work. So does my...NES...
Hehheehawhah. How many hours do you spend blowing into and reseating the cartridge before the game actually plays properly?
Oh, whoops, somebody's hand accidentally brushed against the console, causing garbled characters and blinking screens. Better start the game all over again...hufff....pufff.....huffffffff.......puffffffff.....FUCK!
Dammit, let's play monopoly instead...because emulators don't count.
Don't get me wrong, NES is my first (and still only) love, but the bitch has aged terribly.
With all the money in our pockets go to Apple's iPads, there is none left for new Xbox.
The shouldn't be a Xbox 720, until there removed all the bosons from the matter on the Xbox!, 720 is purely fermionic. No excuses for not nowing the math here!
Dammit, let's play monopoly instead...because emulators don't count.
The NES version of Monopoly was better than any version on newer systems
.
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law
You obviously haven't played skyrim on pc. Its interface is completely borked from being a console port. You have to spend a few hours on mods and tweaking said mods to run it at your computers potential...and I have had friends who have only played it on 360 come over and say why does it look so much better on mine.....well after a few(see: about 10), hours of tweaking almost anything looks better on a pc. It is developer laziness, and corporate greed that are directly affecting the quality of PC releases.
-Noc
The point stands: Then why are you even buying console ports in the first place? If PC technology is so much better and consoles/console ports are stuck in the past, one of the (great many) native PC games out there would be a better choice.
Slashdot: providing anti-social weirdos a soapbox, since 1997.
I'm sure all the saliva you blew into your cartridges and system had no affect on their lifespan.
don't forget
3) Most people are bad at math so they think PC gaming is more expensive than console gaming.
In this same time? My original PS3 is still kicking ass.
Mine isn't. After two returns and out $150, the third one has turned into a boat anchor too and I have given asking Sony to fix it.
Have you got your LWN subscription yet?
On consoles, Skyrim's interface is only "kinda borked" not "completely borked".
Have you got your LWN subscription yet?
Neither MSFT or Sony is "riding high" this generation, they are both deep in multibillion dollar holes they are unlikely ever to get out of. MSFT more so than Sony, but MSFT had the money in the bank, Sony didn't.
You know, I don't want another overheating piece of underpowered garbage with a whining fan in my living room, from MSFT or Sony.
Have you got your LWN subscription yet?
If it took you 10 hours to make Skyrim look better on your PC than on the consoles, then you are doing something wrong. It takes less than 30 seconds to hit the "Ultra" button in the settings section of the launcher and only slightly more time to download the HD texture pack.
why would you need to be hunched over? All you need for console style gaming now a days on a PC is an XBox controller and Steam.
I am moving my kids to Steam based game play. I buy a game for them once and I never have to worry about it again. Platformers are easy to play laying back, and in Windows 8, a TV setup will be super easy to implement with a Metro Games app to browse through.
I'm personally on my sixth - fifth due to flaws (one was due to a home invasion, so that doesn't count -- although Microsoft certainly could have responded positively to my request to help track the console by serial number and IP since it was registered with them). I should note that my use of them is not in any way unusual (except that perhaps it is lighter use than most people). I go for months without touching my console and half of the failed ones died with less than 100hrs of utilization. They weren't mistreated or abused in any way (they sat on their own open-air shelf in the entertainment center next to the PS3 and every other device that has operated just fine).
It just seems to be the luck of the draw. Some people have no problems and some people have several. Especially people who bought the first iteration or two. Remember, the very first issue of the 360 is known to have fatal design flaws that WILL cause your console to die. If you have the first iteration of the console, it's just a matter of *WHEN*. That's why they extended the warranty on that one from one to three years. And the consoles that came after it didn't solve all the problems, either. They still encountered a variety of issues very widely.
Even today, there are tons of reports from people about the most recent kinect-oriented dashboard update flat out killing consoles that worked right before the upgrade and died immediately after it.
I also forgot to mention that my friend (who I bought an earlier version of the console for several years ago) just called me today to ask my advice on his console, which RRoD'd this week and won't operate anymore. Microsoft can repair it for about $110 and six weeks of time. He wanted my advice (other than to give up console gaming, get a PS3, or go straight-PC-only) as to whether he should get a new one or pay the repair costs.
He also doesn't abuse his. I'm in my mid thirties. He's just shy of 40. We're both professionals (he in media; myself in software development). I say this because the response from people who don't have problems with their console to those who do is often "well you broke it dumbass". Not a reasonable answer to design failures, of course.
Your computer from 2005 has at best a Pentium D, the Core processors didn't come out until 2006. Even if you somehow have used a Pentium D for seven years and haven't gone broke paying your electric bill, it won't run most recent games, including Skyrim, Battlefield, and Modern Warfare 3 (it might run Mass Effect 3 at the lowest settings). So how is the 360 relevant and your computer not? Because it plays those games, and your computer doesn't.
I have a gen-1 360 and never RROD'd it. Still rocking strong on a daily basis.
Of course, now that I have typed this it will start on fire the next time I turn it on.
If the only way you can accept an assertion is by faith, then you are conceding that it can't be taken on its own merits
An Xbox 360 with Kinect built in?
Truthfully, Microsoft quietly released their new console, the Kinect, when nobody was looking.
It got my sister to buy an Xbox... my sister.
She wasn't even interested in the Wii!
"MIT betrayed all of its basic principles."
" I don't want another overheating piece of underpowered garbage with a whining fan in my living room,"
Then tell your friends to go away. And why do you let them whine? Lose weight too, god you are getting fat if you are overheating with it this early in the spring.
Complaints about the graphics on the 360 are nonsense. There are more and more detailed graphics for 360 games every year. It is a trade off of space for the graphics data versus the quality of the graphics.It's just a matter of how much time the devs put into it.
Different environments treat different consoles...differently. I have gone through 4 PS2s and 3 NES systems, while my original first-gen 360 is still running perfectly. I had a problem with my GameCube the first week I owned it and had to swap it for a new working one. I had a PS3 for about three weeks(full disclosure: it was used and I have no idea what was done to it in advance) before it turned into a George Foreman grill and never started again.
For me, the 360 has been the most rock-solid console I have ever owned, followed closely by the Dreamcast. The only problem I have actually had with the 360 is that one time a friend tripped over the console and it scratched a big ring into my disc. Fortunately, Best Buy had no qualms with replacing the game immediately.
If the only way you can accept an assertion is by faith, then you are conceding that it can't be taken on its own merits
There are throngs of retards that are buying their little children delicate, easy to break ipads at $500.00. and they are selling better than anything else. I think the $500.00 price point will work just fine.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
Get a new 72 pin connector. For less than $20, and about 30 minutes to install it, mine has worked flawlessly for the last 5 years. Best $20 spent EVER.
Watch for Penguins, they eat Apples and throw rocks at Windows.
"few hours on mods and tweaking said mods to run it at your computers potential"
"mods to run it at your computers potential"
"computers potential"
"reading comprehension"
-Noc
The NES is actually pretty easy to repair, all you have to do is remove the cartridge connector and bend back the contact pins. I did this to mine and it works even better than before - I don't even need to push the cartridge down anymore.
I think we can safely say that this generation is going to be better towards the end. As the developers get more familiar with the hardware, we will see greater and greater games. Provided, of course, they don't just abandon it in preparation for the next next gen. :) Just like the good old days of the C64, we'll see much better work towards the end because the developers become extremely familiar with the ins and outs of the system.
And your experience with the 360 is definitely the exception, not the rule. My PS3 (20GB, upgraded to 500GB) has been the most rock solid console I've ever owned. Not only does it handle 6 hours straight playing Fallout 3, but it can handle 3 Blu-Ray movies in a row and not even hiccup (probably more, but I have to sleep sometime.) I can't say that about my 360, but I do enjoy playing my 360 slim (which they should've release YEARS ago, instead of cycling the old RRoD repaired 360s through the system...) It was a defective design, and Microsoft all but admitted it with their extending of the warranty, etc. (And the RRoD turning into an E74 error in subsequent board designs.) The decision to release a half-baked machine just to be first this generation was a gamble for Microsoft. They may have escaped the bulk of the problems with warranty repairs, etc, but they burned through a TON of good will doing so. We will only know if it was worth it when their next console comes out. (Remember the DVD on the original XBox was pretty shitty, prompting the "dirty disc" error fiasco.) So by the time they make a 720, I hope to hell they understand they cannot afford to release another 360-like hardware aberration. :)
I'm extremely happy for you that your launch 360 has still survived. There are very few people (besides the fanboys lying their asses off) who can say that. :)
It's the Stay-Puft Marshmallow Man.
64-bit Triple-core PowerPC at 65nm still going strong for the X-box360.
Yes. It's relevant because people still buy the 360 and it's popular and it's a consumer electronics device that has remained popular since 2005. In fact what is your point? Do you browse Slashdot just looking for every excuse to whine about how PC gaming isn't popular any more? You must be a hit at parties.
Nice ad hominems. Try actually addressing what the parent post had to say. His point wasn't that PC gaming isn't popular anymore. It is. His point was that lazy developers target the lowest common platform, which in the case of games is consoles and that a 2005 PC is still relevant because it can play most modern games and do all the other functions that 'modern' PC users do.
If PC gaming technology halted how can your computer be a dinosaur?
or the spelling
What the hell are you talking about? Most computers from then can play the newest games at at least the lowest settings.
The ones that can't can do some simple upgrades (such as video cards).
Erm... what? It boggles my mind that people would keep buying that nonsense after it broke so many times (the second time would be the limit for me). In fact, just the restricted nature of the consoles would keep me away. Especially Sony's (not to mention their rootkit nonsense).
At the very least, I wouldn't ever buy a future product from them again.
well after a few(see: about 10), hours of tweaking almost anything looks better on a pc
It took you 10 hours to hit the Ultra button and install a few mods?
Exactly. Stop supporting the companies who produce garbage that you don't like.
I wonder if they'd blame piracy if enough people stopped buying these supposed "console ports"?
Still on my first 360, the thing I hate the most about it so far is the quality of some EA games, you have to pay for online play and the new Windows Phone 7 style interface makes me want to strangle someone in Redmond.
I guarantee it.
A money-back guarantee, right?
Tell that to sony and their ever-so-popular launch ps3.
Sounds like to need to spend more time outside :)
You actually bought all thse consoles? Had I had that experience, I'd have dumped XBox360 and stuck to PS3 and Nintendo. Does the XBox actually have many titles that ain't commonly found in either PlayStation or Nintendo?
If you don't pirate games, it is.
At least was. Thanks to consoles being good enough, the pace of pointless graphics improvements has slowed. You no longer need to buy a new graphics card that is more expensive than an entire console, every two years and replace the entire pc every three to four in order to keep up.
I was there before i got my xbox in '05. Never had to buy a graphics card since. Onboard is good enough because I don't play games and "desktop effects" are fucking pointless. I (and the majority of people, see console popularity for evidence) don't care about buying a game so we can pull ourselves off while pointing out how detailed the foliage in a game world is. It doesn't matter. We play for fun and entertainment. If I want to see highly realistic scenery I can go outside. I want story, challenge, involvement, better interaction with other people in a multiplayer game, content!
The graphics have been good enough for years, the biggest thing missing from games is due to moral censorship. I do blame the console makers for this, of course, their family friendly policies are largely to blame, but the various world governments are obviously just as much to blame.
Think of the children! Fuck them, they aren't the ones paying!
Speaking of which, someone should come up w/ a GPL3 game console. Take Debian or Arch Hurd, then add GNOME3 on top of it, and then on top of that, put as many GPL3 games, such as FreeCiv. Get RMS to write a whole bunch of new GPL3 games for this platform, and get based on it. Oh, and make sure the hardware is 'free' i.e. supports OpenBIOS, has fully documented design published and given to all its customers, if possible, even use a CPU like OpenRISC or Loongson. After it's complete, give it the misleading name of 'FREE CONSOLE' and go to market with it. }:-)
In 2048, we should have something.
Because developers suck? Sorry devs, but you do. You have been going "meh, throw more cycles and RAM at it" for years and years. Why in the fuck do even browsers have to suck so damned much memory? Hell everything now sucks so much more than they did in 06, that's why I have hung on so tightly to my copy of Office 2K, you can LO 3.x and Office 2K10 because they are both bloaty the whale compared to my beloved Office 2K which BTW STILL opens the latest Office files thanks to the compatibility pack. Hell the only thing that has kept any PC that isn't a quad from being buried under bloat is the rise of netbooks, those sub 2GHz dual cores with 5400RPM drives and for the most part limited RAM (I stuffed 8Gb of RAM into mine, overkill? Yes but it was on sale) means they can't just throw more cycles at it.
As for TFA frankly why SHOULD Microsoft come out with a new one now? their sales are still damned good, they are making a royal mint off of licensing and the XBL, the economies of scale have let them drop the prices to practically nothing for the units and refurbs are everywhere and practically given away they are so cheap, and finally its a dead economy. Frankly MSFT would have to be nuts to come out with a new one now while still riding so high in the saddle. if anyone needs to come out with a new one its Sony, its obvious the PS3 is the big loser this round and the cell was a bad idea, hell I'd argue it was the Saturn all over again, which for those that have forgotten their history the Saturn was the much more powerful machine on paper too but it was a royal bitch to program for and keep its multiple chips fed, sound familiar?
I just have to wonder if Sony won't go the way of Sega. they have been bleeding money for years, the Vita, with its Vita cards and Vita memory and Vita connectors is precisely the WRONG product to come out with when everyone and their cat and their cat's squeaky toy has pads and cell phones, and the costs to develop a next gen console is frankly insane. Finally with IBM no longer working on new cell chips they are stuck on dead end tech whereas MSFT can just slap a bigger and faster PPC into theirs and still have backwards compatibility which is another area that hurt Sony this round. While i really hope they stay in the game as I'm a BIG believer in competition being the best thing for a market I just don't see how Sony can continue to just hemorrhage money like that. Maybe they should take a page from Valve who has been hinting they might release a Steam console? Sony could save a ton by going COTS and they could just slap say an AMD 8 core with an AMD GPU and have a pretty powerful console that will have the economies of scale already since AMD will be having CPUs and GPUs cranked out for the PC market.
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
Uhhh...you DO realize that MSFT went into the black with the X360 more than 2 years ago, yes? And that other than advertising its been pretty much gravy ever since? or that MSFT is making a HELL of a lot more money off of the X360 than just the sales of consoles thanks to XBL and licenses? Finally I would point out that the Xbox is the one example i can think of where MSFT actually sat a goal and accomplished it with flying colors. what did Ballmer say with the release of the original Xbox? "We want the living room" and what did the X360 give him? It gave him the living room on a silver platter. It has tons of content on XBL, it is so simple to stream from the Win 7 desktop to the X360 frankly your grandma can do it, after one complete failure after another the Xbox was a shining example that they could actually accomplish a goal.
FYI here is a citation showing that the Xbox division saw a 1.32 BILLION dollar profit for 2011. if that is a failure I'd like two please if you don't mind.
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
Would it be a big deal for Sony to move w/ Freescale on the PPC, or alternately, look @ one of the MIPS CPUs, which they initially used in the first PlayStations? It would seem that at least that would give them an upgrade path
Conversely, I have a friend who owned a PS3 and a 360, both of which for about the same amount of time, both of which get similar amounts of use. The PS3 died a year ago with a "yellow light of death". It had a rental blu-ray in it at the time, he had to take the ps3 apart to get it out, as it entirely refused to even spit out the disk. The 360 is still going strong...
I'm not going to dispute that the failure rate for the 360 is a lot higher than it should be, but PS3s have had their share of issues too, and I consider the fact that you are on your 6th 360 to be more of an extreme than the norm.
360 makes sense yet 720 doesn't. I can and will not believe that they will name the successor of the 360 twice it's value i.e. 720.
Get RMS to write a whole bunch of new GPL3 games for this platform, and get based on it.
Just install emacs. That is more or less a gaming platform in and of itself...
This just in: Company announces that it has no information on product that no one expected any thing about any time soon.
spending to much money and time on the holodeck? Can't wait.
Sony the big loser this round? What the fuck are you drinking? They are not far behind Microsoft in total sales of consoles despite Microsoft have an 18month lead. They have more consoles installed in users homes than Microsofts XBox 360 all due to the latters disastrous hardware reliability. Also, despite their online system being hacked, which they admit to, no one has lost any money from it. Compare that to Microsofts Live system where people's accounts are hacked daily and drained of any cash/credit it has, and Microsoft being slow to react to it. And do Microsoft admit to it being hacked? No!
The next PS4, nobody knows what it will be like. If they cannot go with the Cell processor then it has been rumoured that they will go with AMD. Not sure what the pricing will be like this time around but Sony did state that most of the pricing on the PS3 was because of its high development costs, and this time around that cost won't be there BECAUSE IT HAS BEEN DONE IN THE PS3! This seems to indicate that the PS4 will have a lower starting price. Microsoft however, needs to basically start again because of a piss poor hardware base. Unless they susidise it badly, the cost of the next XBox will be high.
As for the PS Vita and it's memory card, that is to stop piracy. The cost of the system and cards is high at the moment but it has only been out less than a month. The price will come down. And while you felt that the proprietary hard was something to bring up then you forget that the XBox 360 also had proprietary connectors, from wifi to hard drive - you had to buy special ones at higher costs! With the PS3 you did not have to do this!
Sony are going nowhere. The Microsoft consoles would be dead if it wasn't for the US market.
I say this because the response from people who don't have problems with their console to those who do is often "well you broke it dumbass".
To be fair, I haven't met anyone in the last few years that didn't immediately assume that an Xbox 360 console failure wasn't because Microsoft builds shitty consoles.
In the beginning, perhaps, the fanboys would go apoplectic over people complaining about 360 failures, but I think by now most everyone knows that an xbox 360 console isn't so much bought as rented for a few years until it dies for no reason at all.
I'm personally on my third. Never got the RRoD, always had the DVD drives burn out and stop working. This is especially frustrating because it's just a standard DVD-ROM in the fucking thing, and I could replace it myself in a second, but Microsoft is a bunch of dickheads and every console is keyed to a particular model DVD drive (which has changed several times over the manufacturing cycle) that you can only get from them. There's methods out there for swapping out the drive controllers and all that shit to do it yourself, but it's all an incredible pain in the ass for something as stupidly simple to replace as an optical drive, and Microsoft wants 40% of the cost of a fucking entirely new console just to spend 15 minutes swapping a DVD-ROM? Give me a break...
That's at least one thing I give Sony kudos for as regards the PS3...you can go buy most any SATA hard drive and slap it into your PS3 with no problems whatsoever if you're looking to either upgrade or replace a burned out hdd. Seems kinda schizophrenic for a company that just cannot resist the temptation to make all their hardware use proprietary bullshit to lock people in but I suppose it's something.
People wonder why I stick to my PC for the majority of my gaming when the consoles are so much cheaper these days, but considering that it's cost me $500 for an Elite and $250 for the two vanilla replacements I've already spent almost as much on the damn consoles as I did on my last build and I can do a fuck of a lot more on this than I can on the consoles. I probably wouldn't have even replaced the console this last time if it wasn't for the 50+ games and the tons of accessories I have for the thing that would end up getting tossed or sold for $1 a piece to some kid at Gamestop...
Um, in Windows 7 a TV setup is super easy to implement as well. Also, Windows Vista. And Windows XP. Not sure about Windows ME and beyond because I was firmly in 100 pound CRT monitor territory in those days.
I've been PC gaming on my television since 2005 when I bought my first LCD HDTV. A few years later when the Xbox Wireless Receiver came out it was even better.
The 360 was released in 2005 and still going strong. If you bought one then and avoided RROD, you're still good to go. Meanwhile ipods from then have been thrown away, your computer from 2005 is a dinosaur that you keep to run Linux on, your cell phone from 2005 has been somewhere in the back of your closet since 2006, your TV from 2005 needs a digital tuner, your DVD player from 2005 won't play Blu-Ray...
You do realize that the Xbox 360 doesn't play Blu-Ray either, right?
Be seeing you...
Believe it or not, some people actually like to tweak things beyond mashing the Ultra Button and calling it good. I generally spend the first hour or so I play any game just tweaking the settings and pushing them as high as I can before the FPS dips too low for my tastes (I'll sacrifice a little quality to get 60 fps over 30 fps on "ultra").
Of course, the number of PC games coming out that even have an appreciable graphics configuration is dwindling rapidly. Graphics options that consist of a slider that says "good - gooder - bestist!" don't cut it unless it's sitting on top of something much more robust for those of us that actually care enough to do these things.
You mean, if you bought it and avoided the RRoD (which my friend just encountered after three years with his machine) *AND* avoided the E74 error (which I ran into several 360s ago) *AND* avoided the optical drives that fail and stop reading DVDs so you can't play games anymore (just happened to me for the second time), then you're still good to go. Assuming you also aren't tired of looking at increasingly tired graphics and goofy looking models of human beings that animate poorly (yes, PC PC PC -- but no matter how powerful my computer is, I don't want to play *all* my games hunched over a desk *all* the time).
I am currently on my fifth or sixth 360.
First one died after 100hrs of use (but those 100hrs took more than the year of warranty). The optical drive stopped reading discs. Not covered. This is a VERY common failure of 360s. Google it.
Second one died of an E74 error after almost no use over the period of a year or so. Not covered.
Third system stolen in a home invasion.
Fourth system just stopped turning on. Even with another power brick.
Fifth system just recently died of another failed optical drive. It would only recognize games about 25% of the time -- and when it would read the discs, it would make a horrible noise and also scratch the disc.
So, I'm personally on my sixth machine. My fifth due to Microsoft. And on top of that, I've bought a 360 for a family member, bought one for a friend, and bought another for a random person who was on hard times that I read about in a news paper that had all their shit stolen.
In this same time? My original PS3 is still kicking ass. So is my PS3 Slim. In fact, my PS2 and PS1 also work. So does my GameCube, N64, SNES, NES, Sega Master System, Sega Genesis, Game Gear, Lynx, Nomad, GameBoy, GBA, Atari Jaguar. In fact, all of my Atari's and my Odyssey II still work (Atari 2600 dating back to 1977).
But I'm on my sixth 360.
Yes, I'd post Anonymous also if i was admitting to something like buying 6 Xbox 360's and apparently still willing to buy more.
Dude, give it up, the "collection" you have amassed is not going to be any good because you will NOT find an xbox 360 that can still play the disks in 5 years, let alone 10...
My guess? The new Xbox isn't backward compatable with the 360.
Be seeing you...
It is time to move on. Modern technology is capable of much better.
But what about the PIRATES?!?! If it wasn't for them, every game would sell 10 million copies and game developers wouldn't need to focus on the console with it's built in DRM!!! It's all the pirates fault!!!!!!
I highly doubt they will unveil plans for a new device before the holiday shopping season is over - otherwise a potential consumer might hold off on making a purchase until the new system is out. Chances are they will wait until the after major retail outlet return policy has expired before they make their next-next gen plans known...
I think that depends on Nintendo. If they actually get a device out by xmas, MS would want to rain on their parade by "announcing" their next console, and saying how much better it is going to be and how many magic ponies it has.
Be seeing you...
Blowing into cartridges was how you broke them (condensation followed by corrosion). Proper cleaning is done with a match wrapped in some wool. Do that every once in a while instead of "blowing" and your NES/SNES will work for a very long time, barring motherboard corrosion or similar issues that you can't really help.
No optical drive at all, download only, is certainly a likely possibility. Then again I've been buying all my PC games like that, so ...
I really doubt it.
There are still many, many millions of people out there that are stuck on dial-up and I doubt any of the console developers would throw away that market. An individual game may require high speed internet, but an entire console? I doubt it.
More than likely it'll come with a Bluray drive in it. The only other thing I can possibly see would be them moving to some sort of flash memory medium, now that larger-sized flash drives are so cheap, but I think that they're way too paranoid about piracy to go non-optical.
I'm on my third since 2006. And I've played a LOT. The first one failed because of E74, it was the first generation machine. The second one didn't fail (it was based on Falcon and replaced motherboard) . Finally it was about my AV overheating (there was ventilation but not enough, probably electrolytic capacitors drying up). My conclusion was that any hardware combined with heat will end up with HW failure. It took 8 years for my AV to dry up and fail. And the fans will end up in failure, if small enough. Let's say 3..5 years. How many will change the internal fans after this?
Xbox 360 S was on discount so I purchased that. The noise level changed the way I am using this HW. Now I copy the game to the 320 GB hard disk and enjoy the quiet environment. Less moving parts (and bigger fans), less heat. This helps. The Xbox 720 will be around before the S fails or maybe this will be yet another Duke Nukem Forever experiment.
Yarr matey. I'm in your gamez, killing your DRMz!
Like what? Go Fish? Snake? Suduku?
The argument that 'the more time they put into it, the better it looks' is a logical fallacy. There are hugely diminishing returns trying to optimize hardware that is ancient. It's like trying to make a stone bleed. All you have to do is look at Rage, which is very recent, which tried VERY hard to optimize their game for consoles and to look good to see how little it accomplished. It looks just about as good graphically as UE3 that also ran on consoles a year after it came out.
Graphics on modern consoles are ultra dated, they were dated when Crysis came out five (!!!) years ago, they're dated now. The difference being the gaming industry has almost completely stagnated around the hardware specifications of a console so we don't really see anything mind blowing... about the next best thing to come along graphically since Crysis is Battlefield 3.
they pulled a 180 on the product.
No, they can't. As I said, the best processor available for home desktops in 2005 was the Pentium D, which is below the minimum requirements for Skyrim, Battlefield 3, Modern Warfare 3, and many others. The fact is, you're just making the same argument you've been making for 3 years, and it might have been true then, but it isn't true now. Most games that come out today have a Core2 or better as their minimum processor requirement. And since the Core2 was a new socket, it's far from a simple upgrade. Though I will agree that your case from 2005 is probably still capable of housing a computer that can run modern games, but I'm not sure how relevant that is.
Your computer from 2005 has at best a Pentium D
No, at best it would have a dual core Athlon 64 or higher end Athlon 64 FX.
"His name was James Damore."
Microsoft didn't go into the black 2 years ago. They started making a small profit per machine. Big difference. And their profit was short lived, and was due to a couple of games. The whole XBox line is still about 9 Billion dollars in the red. There is no way they are still making profit per machine with the massive desperate discounting they are currently doing!
Some video game genres work better on a device with physical buttons than on a device with just a completely flat touch screen. Apple won't run Nintendo out of business until it can beat the 3DS on these genres too.
For me, the 360 has been the most rock-solid console I have ever owned,
The Xbox360 was, at a certain point, the most failure-prone electronic device on the market, with a failure rate within a year of purchase, of over 51% and should be rightfully mentioned in the annals of poorly designed home electronics.
"The agriculture ministry is not in charge of Gundam" - Japanese ministry official.
The NES version of Monopoly was better than any version on newer systems
What the hell is up with that, I was thinking that myself a couple of weeks ago.
All three models will come with Kinect 2. It would be stupid to split their market. A bigger question is will there be an optical drive? 16 GB flash memory will be even cheaper in eighteen months, and games could come on cards. The two more expensive models might still include an optical drive for playing 360 games and use as a media center.
If you think this generation has stuck around too long, what must you think of the PS2, that thing is STILL selling. You can buy new ones and new PS2 games in the stores...STILL, after 12 years.
Your computer from 2005 has better stats but it is still not as good at running games specifically because it still has to move data from main memory to video memory through an inefficient pipeline, where in the 360 they're shared. Anyway, progress in PC game graphics has basically halted because every developer is targeting consoles as at a minimum a secondary platform. The last game to really push hardware was Crysis, which came out four years ago, and is actually more punishing on hardware than its own sequel, Crysis 2. So all that having a fast computer means is that you can run your games in some ridiculously high resolution or use Ifinity or 3D without noticeably losing frame rate or something. Sometimes a company will release a high res texture pack or you can manually increase the shadow map resolution but the basic shaders and vertex counts have only increased at the same rate that game developers have figured out how to get more out of those 6+ year old consoles, not at the rate that PC hardware has actually improved.
sorry... let me try and be moron proof....It will be an actually sit back experience, not some moron point and click desktop experience in the living room.
I haven't actually tried them, but the listed minimum requirements for all of these show processors that didn't even exist yet (and was considered a big step up from previous processors), let alone examining the graphics card. Maybe you can claim there was a good-enough alternative at the time, but it certainly wasn't "most computers". I ended up ditching a very high-end computer I got in mid-2006 (shortly after the Core 2 Duo processors were released) for my newer machine about a year ago, in part because I really *couldn't* play new games, especially not games that looked as good as on my XBox 360. I'm not the sort that measures actual framerate numbers, but I know the framerate was clearly too low on my PC and not too low on the console. And yes, I had upgraded my graphics card halfway through there.
Back when the XBox 360 came out, people who thought themselves techies were still struggling with what triple-core meant. I remember one guy at Gamestop figuring that you multiplied the clock speed by the number of cores to get the processor power.
XBox 360 & Playstation 3 were way ahead of contemporary PCs. They didn't keep that lead for 7 years though.
Also, the proper comparison isn't really "lowest settings", it's XBox-equivalent settings, which I suspect are lowest in some but not all points. It's fair to say that these games will have specific performance improvements for these platforms because they are stable platforms and PCs have all kinds of attributes.
Yeah, but AAA titles aren't made for PS2 and then sloppily ported to everything else. PC games are still pretty much 360 games with keyboard and mouse support instead of games that take advantage of what DX 10 or 11 cards can do. When the next batch of consoles come out, maybe then I can get some real use out of my graphics card.
Slow Down Cowboy! It's been 1 hour, 47 minutes since you last successfully posted a comment
Again, I've been doing that since the mid 2000's.
Controllers have existed for the PC since the 90's. So have wireless keyboards and mice.
If it really took you until Windows 8 came around to realize the potential of connecting a computer and a television as a viable gaming platform on par with consoles, I wouldn't worry about moron proofing your posts.
Xbox division saw a 1.32 BILLION dollar profit for 2011. if that is a failure I'd like two please if you don't mind.
So, $1.3 billion back against $9 billion sunk costs, on a product with a limited lifetime. Let me see, that is negative how much? Versus 95% gross profit on Microsoft's core monopoly OS business? If that makes sense to you, then may I offer you an excellent opportunity to own a piece of the Brooklyn Bridge?
Have you got your LWN subscription yet?
Posting anon to avoid being identified...
The problem with solder joints of this era was that the industry had just switched solder alloys to avoid lead (and the associated recovery of hazardous materials issues). Various alloys were used, but the most common ones had this problem where heat cycling (not actual heat), cause metallic crystalization in the solder joints. Every time the solder joints went above a certain critical temperature, and dropped below a lower sub-critical temperature, more crystals would form in the solder joint. Once too many crystals formed, the structural integrity of the solder joint was compromized and a shock (say like shaking your console, or moving it to take to a LAN party) might render the solder bumps that connected the device to the circuit board "cold" (essentially a shattered and high resistance state if you have ever done soldering yourself, you know what a cold solder joint looks like). This is the most common cause of the RROD and the generic name is called "bump-crack" in the electronics industry.
I have no personal information about MSFT, but in the electronic assembly industry, studies that attempted to quantify the initial extended life testing of this solder alloy were performed the way they always were, it was assumed that you would turn on your electronic device, it would heat up and cool down maybe one or two time every time you turned on the device and if you did this every day, perhaps the solder joint would last millions of thermal cycles. Unfortunatly this was a very optomistic assumption as silicon devices of this era often heated up and cooled down many times when they were running sometimes hundreds of times per hour (e.g., hard to render scene, followed by a short frame stall, etc). Having a temperature sensor that kicked on a fan when the internal case temperature got high doesn't help either (it actually causes this problem). Needless to say millions of thermal life cycles doesn't last very long in this type of situation.The historical method of testing solder joints wasn't representative of the new era of high-powered silicon and fans in electronic devices.
Ironically, if you actually put your device in a heat bath at a high moderatly high temperature, the number of thermal cycles would be less (although the silicon transistor thermal junction reliability would probably eventually be the lifetime limiting factor in this case).Or, if you never moved your device (say it was a server screwed into a rack), the reduced structural integrity wouldn't generally be an issue. Most electronics manufacturers chose to address this situation by trying to reduce the number of thermal cycles (let the device run hotter before kicking on the fan, and then run the fan for longer) even those this put more stress on the transistor junction temperature reliability.
Eventually, the electronics assembly industry developed a better solder alloy that reduced this crystalization problem, but there really wasn't much of a "choice" during this timeframe: everyone was in the same RoHS boat and going back to lead wasn't an option at the time and all of the electronic assembly houses used varients of the alloys which had this bump-crack problem to some extent. Most OEMs don't specifiy the specific solder alloy to use to the assembly houses (they just send the parts list and the circuit board layout aka gerbers), so during this era, if you used a contract manufacturer to make your device (which everyone does), your devices all had this crappy solder alloy in it. The only difference is how your device thermal cycled above and below that critical temperature in standard operation. Xbox360 was probably one of the worst for this (lots of thermal cycles and people move the box all the time) and thus bore the brunt of this problem.
Er, the 360 is as much a dinosaur as the phone and pc from 2005, they have just held back advancement in games so the ancient hardware consoles can actually play games.
Let's be honest: this is true. You'd have to be an idiot to develop a big game exclusively for the PC game market, because it all gets ripped off anyway (the exception - MMORPGs - are immune to piracy). TBH I don't even understand why they bother porting XBox games over to the PC, although I'm sure some beancounter somewhere has it figured out.
you realise that the windows desktop is not made for a remote control right?
The only problem I have actually had with the 360 is that one time a friend tripped over the console and it scratched a big ring into my disc..
Well, it's better than the time I tripped over over got a big disc shoved into my ring.
pfft, 720...
However, I do agree that consoles have done very little to hold back PC gaming. I think we hit diminishing returns some time ago. Not enough attention paid to plot and AI.
I remember doing some 3D art a while ago. At the time there was a single keypress which would round out rough edges of polygons. ONE SINGLE KEYPRESS. That single keypress or tessellation and all those other wonderful DirectX 11 features that no games implement because consoles don't support them take an insignificant amount of coding to implement. That and one of my friends from the industry said they work backwards with models, start with a high detail model and then simplify it so real time rendering can handle it. Though I'm not sure about how true this is.
Funny you should mention plot, it's precisely when you get closeup shots of character faces in cut-scenes that you really realise how we have not progressed one little bit in the last 5 years.
Actually that's not true. These days my games run at a stable 120fps so in that respect we've progressed, but it's not a progression we should be proud of. It shows that one part of the industry has given up compared to the other.
I mean we could have, but who's going to release a game that doesn't run on an XBOX360 right?
Nothing a bit of duct tape and pocket knife won't be able to fix however.
>Complaints about the graphics on the 360 are nonsense. There are more and more detailed graphics for 360 games every year."
the meager advance in graphics doesnt outrun the raw aging of its hardware.
So, $1.3 billion back against $9 billion sunk costs, [...]
Um... I presume you're talking about a $9 billion spent over the lifetime of the console, which is opposed to $1.3 billion in profit just last year, not over the six years the console has been around.
Unless you have some sort of source that indicates spending $9 billion on it last year, or that profit was exactly $0 for the five preceding years of the console's existence?..
His point was that lazy developers target the lowest common platform
Yes lazy developers go where the money is, lazy developers target popular platforms, lazy developers continually work to get the most out of older hardware instead of just forcing the user to throw more hardware and money at the problem...come to think of it 'lazy' is the wrong word.
What he had to say was a complete tangent. "PCs are awesomer than xboxes" has no real relevance to "XBoxes are still popular 7 years after they were released, and are an electronics device with a comparatively long lifespan." Maybe it's true, maybe it isn't, it's kind of a tired Coke v. Pepsi sort of argument.
"Lazy developers" - do you understand how software is made? It's not the same as an undergrad doing a homework assignment. It's a massive project where time = money. Implementing more isn't a matter of developers not being lazy, but of having to hire more developers or have the developers work more hours (and they're already massively over-worked). It's like saying construction workers are lazy because the building is only 50 stories tall, instead of 60.
I would strongly advice you to never post to Slashdot again. You just don't have anything of intelligence to offer a community of tech-savvy people.
Tell that to sony and their ever-so-popular launch ps3.
You mean the $599 PS3.
$500 will be palatable to most of the first day crowd.
The $400 option will be there for the cheapos.
This is exactly why games haven't improved in the past 6 years.
They've convinced everyone to shell out $60 for a rehash of last years game to run on hardware about as powerful as today's tablets. Do you want to know why this is so important to game console manufacturers??? Because the console is the only part of the gaming ecosystem that they lose money on. They want nothing more than to convince you to keep buying rehashed games, more controllers, more subscriptions, because those are almost all profit.
MS and Sony would lose millions of dollars if they launched a new console. So instead we have games with minute plus long loading screens, poor screen resolution (720p), poor texture resolution (512x512) and no good actual content.
Imagine how good Skyrim could have been if they didn't have to make it work on such useless hardware. Most people's game console are older than their cars, that is pretty sad.
No, at best in 2005 it would have had two intel dual core xeon procs for a total of four cores and 16 gigs of RAM.
Let's make like a bird... and get the flock outta here.