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Hobbit Pub Saved By Actors Stephen Fry and Sir Ian McKellen
Fluffeh writes "Recently the Hobbit Pub in England was sued for rights infringement, but it seems Stephen Fry and Sir Ian McKellen are going to re-pony-up the cash to keep the pub alive. Landlady Stella Roberts said she had been shocked by the actors' offer. She said: 'I had a telephone call on Saturday evening, while we were trading, from Stephen Fry's business partner and manager. That's when he told me. I was very shocked. They've said as soon as they finish filming they would like to come down and visit the pub.' However Ms Roberts said she was not celebrating just yet. She added: 'Until everything is in black and white, on paper, we're going to be a bit reserved because it could be $100 this year and $20,000 next year.'"
Okay... why is Hobbit Pub worth mentioning on Slashdot in the first place?
Good on them for bailing her out. Nobody wants some lady running a small pub to have to deal with harassment over something goofy like this.
Though one can't help but wonder what happens now, when some dope comes along and names their daycare business, "Hogwarts".
Something like Lord Smoked Meat and Fish's Pub and Hotel Casino.
This needs to stop, now
The word "Hobbit" predates Tolkein (the real one) by a good century. The prefix "hob" (from "hobbe"), with a variety of faerie-folksy suffixes, predates that by another three centuries - At least.
JRR knew all this perfectly well, and never claimed exclusive rights to a common word used to describe the wee people of mythology. Only these asshats that have tried to cash in on Grand-dad's legacy have so poor of a grasp of the work of their ancestor as to claim it as a "copyright". He, as a proper good ol' Don, would no doubt have outright disowned his fool-descendants for their ignorance.
Sad, really, and just one more reason we need to get rid of this entire BS charade we call "intellectual property" ASAP.
It's not just the use of the name "The Hobbit" it's the use of Still Images from the LOTR movies in their promotional material. Essentially, these people are lifting copyrighted imagery and using it to promote themselves -- most definitely NOT cool and if I was one of the parties that ponied up hundreds of millions to make these films, I'd be a bit peeved by someone taking that work and using it without permission to make a profit.
I can only imagine that Stephen Fry and Sir Ian McKellen do not know the full story here and possibly think that this is a matter of a harmless pub merely using the word "Hobbit" in their name and have not seen the website or promotional material produced by this pub.
And for the record, the web site and promo material is completely amateur and quite tacky. Hopefully any money given to the pub to support them would mandate that they cease using imagery from the movies and perhaps use hand drawn illustrations by fans and artists who wish to contribute artwork for them to use.
Now that the copyright holders know there are people with money they'll be asking a lot more for the license.
The pub uses (used?) images from the movies on its loyalty cards.
So yeah, they decided to ride on the films fame to bolster the pub's business.
http://lkml.org/lkml/2005/8/20/95
Haven't we seen all this before? The trademark owners have to do this to protect their rights, or they get diluted? Then afterwards to come to some reasonable arrangement?
I'll mince no words: Saul Zaentz is and always has been an ahole. He only owns the rights to the film version of the book, he does not own the book. He ripped off Credence Clearwater's John Fogerty long ago, and then had the audacity to sue Fogerty for hundreds of millions, claiming John did not have the right to use his own riffs. He lost the suit but remained a complete dick. This man is the epitomy of wrong.
Website of the pub: http://www.hobbitpub.co.uk/"
Most of the "infringing material" is mere fan art like this graffiti in the beer garden: http://www.hobbitpub.co.uk/gallery/hobbitgraffiti/67/
Even thought it is just a drawing they were asked to over-paint it.
Here is a still from the movie used as background for a card: http://www.hobbitpub.co.uk/hobbit-cocktails/
That's pretty much it.
I think Steven Fry and Sir Ian McKellen are right when they call the claims "petty". How many pubs are there with images of e.g. Elvis Presley? I am sure someone has a copyright to them as well. So all auxiliary lawyers here should calm the f*** down.
If this was just a dispute over promotional material, the pub wouldn't need any licensing fees at all -- it would just have to stop using the screencaps. The studio demanded the pub stop all references to all "trademarked" characters (which would require them to change drink names and the pub name), despite the fact that it's clearly had rights for less than the pub's been operation (20 years). That's not a debate over copyright imagery, and indeed the article calls it a "trademark dispute." That's just absurd. I only regret that Fry and McKellen are actually paying these trademark trolls.
...an old guy who stands in front of implacable foes. Granted, lawyers are worse than ancient supernatural fire demons.
Perhaps not, but they certainly started selling stuff with the images of the characters from the movie including putting Elijah Woods face on things. That's what prompted the legal action.
I haven't seen any indication that the character image infringement issues were what "really" prompted the action. If that were so, this would be a non-story now (since they've removed all copyrighted pictures from their website and fliers) The copyright infringement may be where the pub was most definitively in the wrong, but it is far from the core of the issue.
Is how much people still use "gay" as an insult of sorts.
These guys are made from solid class.
They use actual screencaps and promotional materials ripped from the movies and associated trademarked/copyrighted works, without permission.
Everyone steals, what is your point?
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
"Repony" isn't a word. "Prancing Pony" is two, though.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
Repony? Really?
Imagine I were to open a theme pub where whenever someone orders a certain drink its name flashes on a screen and a buzzer sounds, and all the staff talk like pretentious knobheads except for one who acts intentionally obtuse.
What would Mr Fry think about that?
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
Zaentz, another "american" Jew
there is a reason Jews where thrown out of the temple, and have been the target of hate ever since, and it isnt bad breath.
I feel I should address some of the issues raised in these comments. Firstly, the lawsuit was threatened because of their name. Second, the letter Mr Zaentz sent us was certainly NOT amicable, but we're not allowed to share it for legal reasons. Regarding use of images from the movie, perhaps that wasn't very well thought through, but anyone who has been to the pub could tell you that the places these images are used don't really have a bearing on sales at all - people don't buy loyalty cards because they've got Elijah Wood's face on, and nor do they buy an Aragorn drink simply because the poster has Viggo Mortensen's face on it. The pub has never tried to piggy-back on the movies' success. It's just a slightly geeky pub run by Tolkien fans for students who wouldn't see it changed for the world. Perhaps there have been some foolish but well-meaning errors committed. There are bigger things to deal with in the world of IP than small British pubs.
Good. I find it ridiculous that this pub can be in existence for so long without one hushed word from Tolkien's people, then BANG, IZZA MOVIE and those involved in the film (The Money) start throwing their toys out of the pram. The only way I could see this as a problem is if the place was built less than ten years ago, with every inch of wall space coated in movie stills and there was hard evidence that the pub somehow affected New Line's economic climate. Everyone involved in the films does understand how much money they've made in the last 13 years, correct? Hell, in a perfect world, people and businesses SHOULD be able to cash in on the freakin' films; we're all owed for the trickling-in of the first DVD release then OH, here's the extended edition... oh hey, five years later, theatrical... you've made your nickel, guys, let it go.
You want to know how to help your kids? LEAVE THEM THE F*&K ALONE. --George Carlin
I can imagine the owners of http://www.hotblackdesiato.co.uk/ getting scared too :)
So Stephen Fry said, shut up and take my money?
You need to have a Mordor Car.
From scarped cliff or quarried stone she cries "A thousand types are gone, I care for nothing, no not one."
Ummmmm, samzenpus, WHAT does this have to do with YRO? Are your hands covered in vaseline from jacking off to hentai and you just slipped when you hit "accept" but meant to hit "reject?" I look forward to your reply.
...that has drunk in this establishment? I am a bit bewildered by the mention of the decor. It's just standard crappy pub decor, crappy benches outside, a few pool tables and a few fruities (slot machines). What -isn't- mentioned that this pub charges people on the busier nights of the week an entrance fee. Something you'll be hard pressed to find in ANY other pub in the entirety of the United Kingdom, let alone Southampton. I smell a rat.
Drink, you fools!
That pub might've been operated under the name "The Hobbit" for 20 years .. but I'll bet dollars (or pounds) to donuts (or hashers) that the sign with the blatant movie character ripoffs is not nearly that old. THERE is the copyright infringement, and the owners were damned fools to put up that sign.
Take down the sign, put up something elfish or wizardry, anything that isn't readily identifiable from the LOTR movie, and THEN fight the greedy movie lawyer bastiges.
Remember the old adage (American, I do believe): "Millions for defense, not one penny for tribute." Tell those generous actors thank you very much, but we'll use your money to defend in court, not to pay tribute in the form of licensing.
Toad
Surely there are others here who've been to the pub? I was there on the Open Repositories Conference 2008. Huge beer garden straight out of Spinal Tap without the budget (check out the gallery on the website). Great disturbed poet (think McGonagall after 20 years of acid) on a synth that night. Great black-painted old-school longhairds' pub. Good luck to them.
Maybe they did, but the pub told them to screw off. You're assuming that the media has told the entire story
So it comes down to whether journalists are being honest or lawyers are being reasonable. I now wonder if there is a third, more plausible explanation.