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US Mobile Carriers Won't Brick Stolen Phones
WheezyJoe writes "NBC News has some disturbing security video of people getting assaulted for their smartphones. Such offenses are on the rise. Police chiefs like D.C.'s Cathy Lanier are asking U.S. mobile carriers to brick phones that are reported stolen, in order to dry up what must be a big underground market for your favorite Android device or iPhone — but right now the carriers won't do it. Such an approach has had success in Australia and the U.K."
Accomplice in theft. The phone would be useless if the carrier was not cooperating. So the carrier is adding value to and encouraging the theft.
Should be a nice massive group action lawsuit in there somewhere.
The equipment is in place. There is no collaboration between carriers and no reason for carriers to go through the hassle to enforce it.
Make a law!!! get some use for the that congress.
That would be way too efficient, and would make way too much sense. And we can't be having that here, especially on this side of The Second Great Cosmic divide. Such efficiency will only lead to trouble.
They specifically mention the iPhone, which already allows customers to remotely brick their own phones whenever they'd like via Find My Phone.
If your phone gets stolen, you have to buy a new phone; most often this is done by people signing up for 2 more years to get the subsidized handset since few are willing to shell out $300+ for a smartphone. And whoever ends up with the stolen phone also signs up for service. So every stolen phone results in a new customer, an extended customer, and a (subsidized) phone sale.
But if they BRICK your stolen phone, then theft of stolen phones decreases, which hurts them because they'll have fewer new customers, fewer retained customers, and fewer phone sales.
That hurts profits, which is un-American. I'm shocked and appalled that someone in the public / government sector would suggest this! It might be time to privatize the police forces... that way the telecoms can stop relying on 3rd parties to enhance their sales and have the cops start stealing your phones directly.
Captcha was endemic. It's like slashdot KNOWS.
Part of not getting mugged is not looking like a target and avoiding bad areas. If you actually NEED a smartphone ("it makes you money") then conceal it and don't answer it in Chud zones.
The ROE for avoiding scumbags hasn't changed since Ogg coveted Zorgs shiny rock.
Don't display shiny rocks, and if it's an option be able, willing, and ready to use lethal force in self-defence.
"This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
More stolen phones means more phones being replaced, also if you are on contract you can be liable for a huge bill. The UK government had to actually bring in a law requiring carriers to block stolen phones (or threaten to legislate, I can't remember whether the carriers caved before the law was due to introduced).
I cant speak for the other carriers, but Verizon will not activate a phone that has been reported as stollen. Sure, its not "bricked", but its near useless.
"Have you ever thought about just turning off the TV, sitting down with your kids, and hitting them?"
I live in a state with strong castle laws.
Most would-be muggers are quickly deterred by the sight of the 1911 strapped to my hip. You want my celly? Come and get it.
An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
Sprint and Verizon don't need to brick the phones since they are CDMA networks and once those phones are reported stolen they are essentially black-balled from the network any way. T-Mobile, AT&T, and all other sim-card services would have to figure out some type of alternative in safe-guarding stolen phones.
Here's what I don't get: if the carriers are capable of, even if unwilling to, bricking phones remotely, that must mean they know where those phones are at any given time, at least to the level of the nearest cell tower. If the phone is on the internet, they can be even more accurate than that. So, it seems to me, the phones themselves are built-in tracking devices that would work in law enforcement's favor; something that bricking would destroy.
Why not just work with law enforcement, through proper warrants of course, in tracking down the stolen phones and, hopefully, the thieves with them?
Is this just not a realistic possibility from a technical standpoint?
When my cousin stole my uncle's phone, he called up his carrier and it was bricked.
He had gone through the process before apparently as well. (My cousin isn't the best of people)
What do I know, I'm just an idiot, right?
Last I checked Brick != Wipe.
Clearing off your personal data is one thing... preventing the phone from being used again (bricking) is another.
Help Brendan pay off his student loans
Sprint blocks the ESN of phones that are reported stolen, so they can't ever be used on their network again. Very few of their phones can ever be used on any other networks.
Verizon is CDMA, You could simply obtain the master lock codes and port the phone to sprint or some other carrier.
Why can't all fpga/microcontroller manufacturers just release free optimizing compilers???
Well, I don't see why they would try to activate a phone made out of bread! http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/stollen
Author of Enyo: Up and Running from O'Reilly Media
Just because it gets stolen?
RTFA.
As per TFA, we've had this in the UK for years. As the US networks say, it's not perfect as the IMEI can be changed on some phones and they can be exported abroad but its a hell of a lot better than nothing. Most mobile phone robberies are not organised exporters, they're people after a quick profit, often to feed a drug habit.
It's common sense, it works, do it.
"XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve your problem, use more." - Anonymous Coward
It's quite clear that the Mobile carriers are robbing us blind as citizens and as consumers, not to mention the abuses of our civil liberties. It's no surprise they aren't willing to help curtail similar actions.
Sometimes, life itself is sarcasm...
I've worked developing cell phone operator software for almost a decade on 3 different continents (Not in the US though) and many different countries and as far as I know every single cell phone operator that I have worked for use the GSM standard practice of blocking the EMEI number which will cause the phone to be bricked on any GSM network in the world (AT&T & T-Mobile base their network on the GSM standard in the USA) and I was flabbergasted when a few months ago my 2 week old iPhone 4S was stolen AT&T would not do the same here.
Normally the procedure in other countries is that you just bring your cell phone operator the police report and they will immediately block the phone, basically turning it into a big media player (Assuming it is a smart phone). I can't understand how the operators here claim that they need to investigate technical solutions. This was designed and built into the original GSM standard that has been around since the late 1980:s and as far as I know the feature has also been in use since that time.
I totally agree with the article that it is unconscionable that operators here refuse to do this I am assuming to save a few bucks on cell phone subsidies.
If your *smartphone* (not feature phone) is stolen, in particular if it's Android or iOS, there are a number of solutions , other than retrieving it.
And most of those solutions can be easily worked around by a knowledgeable person, at the simplest level by just reflashing the firmware. This is not just theoretical - IMEI reprogramming used to be common place for stolen mobile phones, and there was a whole cottage industry based around cracking IMEIs so that stolen phones could be reenabled (to be fair, there were a few legitimate uses, but the illegal usage far outnumbered that). Now that the manufacturers made it harder to reprogram the IMEI, stolen phones that are blocked by the networks are only useful for export to countries that have the same network technology. So there is still a route to profit, but it requires more organisation than just being able to list the phone on ebay or sell it down the pub, which is what used to happen in the old days.
one could use without having to resort to calling police to "brick" your phone
The police have nothing to do with IMEI blocking, the network operator does the blocking, and will do so when you report the stolen phone to them, which you obviously need anyway to do as you are liable for all phone calls until the theft is reported.
they don't want to because it earns them money. they don't care if the phone is stolen as long as it brings in revenue. a few pissed off people getting odd bills after the phone is stolen doesn't concern them, they can wait out any customer dispute till they just give up and pay.
Actually neither Sprint or Verizon will activate a phone not originally purchased from them. And neither will activate a phone reported stolen by an owner. Honestly this seems like a problem strictly for phones with SIM cards.
iRepairIT - iPhone, Mac, & PC Repair
In other words, don't dress like a whore if you don't want to get raped.
In the Montreal subway, there has been hit and run. The mugger will grab the phone, hit you right away and run. I think what's worse is that most people just look at the runner and do nothing while the victim yells. An other tactic is they wait in the train for the door to be on the point of closing, then grab your phone and run.
While I agree with you, I also think that phone carriers should brick the phones if they can. It's not like the user will ever get it back anyway.
when you "Brick" a phone, you make it completely useless, i.e. destroy the firmware in such a way were it cannot be restored.(anyone who did motorola p2k hacking back last decade remembers this)
What the article mentions is "Blacklisting" a process where phones with IMEI numbers reported stolen are not allowed to be used on the network. the feature is part of the GSM spec and they do this in England.
Again with all blacklists its subject to abuse. I'd say their needs to be an appeals process for getting a phone off a black list.(i.e. prove its NOT stolen, recovered by rightful owner, etc...). This DOES have potential for abuse Otherwise what happens when carriers start blacklisting older phones to make you buy new ones, or to keep certian phones off their network.
If they started to brick stolen phones, what would stop them from bricking jail broken/rooted phones? Personal I'm just stick and tired of smart phone and the stress that comes with them, high bills, being track every where I go,worrying if its going to get stolen, third parties stealing my personal information like contacts and emails. I'm just going back to prepaid shit phones!
This is true... Unfortunately, the BUDGET carriers (e.g. metropcs and cricket) WILL activate the stolen verizon/sprint phones!
Make your own determinations about the cross section of demographics between stolen phone users and budget cell carriers.
That damn iPhone had it coming... all tarted up like that, it was just asking to be stolen.
Ah, I see...
Although, isn't "locking" the phone about as good as bricking? Or can that be disabled by connecting it to any computer with iTunes? Yes, the data would be erased, as far as I know, but would this still work?
I finally made it on TV! Wooooooooo! Woooooo!!!!!
Bricking should be reserved for serious crimes, like unlocking and running an unapproved applications on the hardware you payed for. Who cares about theft!
Instead of bricking, lock the user interface, put them in a periodic beaconing mode, and send the posse after the phone.
DO put the phone in a mode where if the battery dies or is removed it can't be restarted without opening the case and doing vendor magic.
DO store all non-removable-media data in encrypted form and zap the key as soon as the phone is told that it is stolen.
DO give the customer the option of storing data that is on removable media in encrypted form as well.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
So, while Verizon doesn't like people bringing in phones, resellers of Verizon service (Cricket, Virgin, etc.) are more than happy to do so. Verizon isn't in complete control of their own mobile service since a lot (25%? 30%? more?) of it is due to resellers selling access to the same towers.
Oh, an what do you need to use Cricket? A Verizon-compatible phone.
Sprint and Verizon (CDMA) both brick stolen phones, which is easy to do since you can't just change out a SIM and be done with it...
I think the idea is that if criminals know a phone will become a useless hunk of metal and plastic the moment it's reported stolen, it's no longer worth stealing.
An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
Whenever I get mad at someone, I can just report THEIR phone stolen, and it gets bricked!
I can't wait!
don't buy five hundred friggin dollar phone.
Any statistics on how much concealed carry correlates with drops in assaults such as thefts of phones?
Also: Situational Awareness -- I'd be interested to hear if people who are engrossed in coversation and/or text messaging on their mobile device are more likely to get mugged.
coding is life
How is the carrier supposed to know that the device was stolen?
It says how right there in the fine summary -- "Police chiefs like D.C.'s Cathy Lanier are asking U.S. mobile carriers to brick phones that are reported stolen..." Presumably a police report has some legal backing.
Cheers,
"What in the name of Fats Waller is that?"
"A four-foot prune."
Sprint absolutely won't activate any phone not sold by them (or at least wholesaled to someone by them). Verizon won't go out of its way to HELP you, but if you can figure out how to make some arbitrary CDMA phone work on Verizon, they won't stand in your way and prohibit you from using it, either.
I'm not 100% sure, but I think Verizon's grudging willingness to let you use any compatible phone is an artifact of the original Bell breakup & consent decree that prohibited Bell from requiring that customers use only equipment sold/leased by them. From what I remember, the general belief was that it was somewhat up in the air and never formally tested in court whether Verizon Wireless was to be treated like a successor entity to Bell subject to the full original consent decree, but the FCC settled it once and for all by making Verizon Wireless formally acknowledge and accept it as a condition of being allowed to buy Alltel.
First off I think carriers should do this; but that being as it may I will say that this doesn't really work in either the UK or Australia - phone theft has not disappeared or become less common as a result.
It is easy to understand why when you consider how trivial it is to unlock phones and then sell them on to international customers, particularly in Europe where a blocked phone in the UK might still be worth upwards of 300 euro on eBay Germany or France.
Another interesting question is - what, if anything, has Apple done? They could very easily block phones interacting with its iTunes stores if the phone was reported stolen in any part of the world but they haven't. Why is that?
It still can happen if the stolen-car report isn't visible to the car-title-issuing companies due to a snafu.
However, most states require that someone post a bond if they want to get a title to a car and can't show proof of ownership. It's called a "bonded title."
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
>Honestly this seems like a problem strictly for phones with SIM cards.
What country is backward enough to still be using phones without SIM cards?
Love the car analogy, wait...
After telling Verizon to cancel the service on a stolen phone (I had two and only one was stolen), they reactivated it when I had the other phone reactivated after a hiatus. The next bill was over $1000 as the person in possession of the stolen phone apparently called everyone in China. It took three months to finally get the charges removed from my account and I never received a refund for the taxes and fees that were also billed.
I no longer own a cell phone because I have the distinct feeling that many will simply pay the bill and that Verizon takes advantage of this much like credit card companies profiting from stolen credit cards/numbers (the merchant actually eats the costs).
Fucking crooks.
Alright, so these apps would only help if the perp intended on using the device themselves and had no intention of reselling.
But, yeah, by taking it up to the next level with IMEI cracking... That kind of nullifies any sense of security on the phone. :-/
For not carrying lethal weapons and for using their device.
Serves you right for fucking around with your phone you should be watching where you're going.
No, not in other words.
For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
I have just been checking this out. Mine was stolen this weekend from my car. I called [the carrier] and said it was stolen...they said they'd mark it 'lost or stolen' - I said, no, it's stolen, they said, ok 'lost or stolen...
It turns out there are a bazillion phones on Ebay marked 'bad esn'...people buy and sell them all the time. The carriers don't do anything. Ebay doesn't do anything.
Why? because if your phone is stolen, you just pay full price to the carrier for a new one, or but your old one back on Ebay, and the stolen one gets re-flashed and activated on a pre-paid carrier...which are also owned by the same major carriers.
There is a large market for stolen cell phones, and it takes place out in the open. Everyone benefits, except the consumer, so it goes on.
Put the phone in DFU mode to reset it even if locked. Press and hold down the 'Home' button as you plug the phone into the computer. This places it in DFU mode which allows the phone to be restored (ie, phone is wiped and iOS is reinstalled) in iTunes. Once this is done the phone can be reactivated and used again.
watching where you're going? While you're standing on a subway car? Suddenly people deserve to be mugged or be accosted with strong-arm assault? Go fuck yourself...srsly.
From experience, Telus in Canada won't brick a stolen phone either. The theft was reported within minutes to Telus.
The "new owner" of the stolen phone - contacted via the phone - simply claimed that they bought it on Kijiji. So we contacted police.
A week later Telus activated it for the "new owner"even though it was reported stolen. We reported this to police, who at last report (over six months ago) were waiting for Telus to give them the name of the "new owner."
You live in Sweden, so you probably don't have a lot of people sticking a gun in your back and demanding you hand over your iPhone. You might not care what happens to the phone, but you'd probably prefer not to be beaten up for it. If it was common knowledge up front that *all* stolen phones are useless (not some dumb "opt in" system as you seem to describe) there would be a lot less incentive to commit armed robbery over it.
And honestly, most people stealing your phone really don't give a shit about your data, they just want to wipe it and sell it.
I know for a fact that Sprint (I worked for them for a while) creates a "lost or stolen" database. If your Sprint phone is stolen you report it to sprint and the "lost/stolen" service is placed on your phone. This renders the phone unusable: No calls, no messages. If you get a new phone, when you activate the new phone on the old number there is a check for "lost/stolen" and the SN/MEID goes into a database and that cannot be activated on sprint again. All allegations of carriers not concerned about the theft of phones is bogus.
My carrier is ATT. I know for a fact that they have exactly the same service although it is applied a little differently.
However, the phone would still be usable after hacking such as cloning. The carriers can only block the phone services on their network; not destroy the phone itself.
"The mind works quicker than you think!"
There is a difference between reasonable precautions and trolling for muggers.
Just because you have the right to do X doesn't make it a smart choice in all locations.
"This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
Speaking strictly from an environmental standpoint, If they're bricked, they go straight in the trash can and into the landfills. A waste of precious materials and circuitry that could be recycled or reclaimed if the phone is recovered. Let's not pretend this technology doesn't exist. Between CarrierIQ, E911 and gps pings, it's not hard to recover it if the device is on.
I think what's worse is that most people just look at the runner and do nothing while the victim yells.
No offense, but what do you expect most people to do? Chase after the bastard and take him down like Chuck Norris or something? It's not like they're just standing there watching you getting beaten or raped. How are they going to know the other guy didn't track you down using a GPS app after you stole his phone?
Wait what? Phones don't have SIM cards? How are you supposed to port your phone to another carrier, or use your account on another phone?
Frankly, I would never count on any third party to protect MY property, whether that be Verizon or the government. So I password my phone and installed Cerberus on it in such a way that it cannot be removed without a bit of effort. Those two steps alone will ensure that the thief will not get far. As soon as the thief tries a password and gets it wrong, my phone snaps a picture. If I can get to a web console or even another phone that has SMS capability, I can send all sorts of messages to my phone to track the location, sound an alarm, take video, movie or record audio, wipe memory, wipe the SD card or reboot, The phone will become all but useless once that's done. Sure, we might get a particularly talented thief who would know enough to root and install a new ROM, but that procedure takes time and the chances of that happening are pretty low given that a thief with that kind of know-how is likely to make a good living without risking jailtime.
You're not, apparently.
I hop between a number of countries (mostly the U.S. and Japan) and use a couple of carrier locked phones (iPhone 3GS, Google Nexus S), and I'm vehemently against carriers having to do any "magic" in order for my phone to work with their network: I want a SIM card, and then I want to be left alone.
I don't know the details of a bricking (like if my phone were bricked in Japan would it still work in the U.S.?), but I assume I'd have to go to a carrier with proof of identification, explain my phone was stolen, and ask that they brick the phone with the associated SIM in it? What could would this be if thieves immediately switched out SIMs?
I don't believe you. Look at how you warped this conversation into personal responsibility and guns when it was just about an easy way to deter crime. No one's responsibility? So no need for laws or police? Just need me some guns and bootstraps?
If this is your reaction to a simple story on an easy and financially insignificant step carriers could take to prevent crime (by not profiting off of it themselves), then no, you don't have all your cognitive faculties. The saddest part is that you don't seem to even realize the story in your linked article is a horrific example of how fucked up people like yourself have made this country. What was that woman supposed to do? Go hunting her ex with a AR-15 with her kids in the crossfire?
Who mods this shit up?
Except that quite a few can be flashed to work with other services like Cricket.
"An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it." Col. Jeff Cooper
So the police can get a warrant for that, then go retrieve the phone.
I cant speak for the other carriers, but Verizon will not activate a phone that has been reported as stollen. Sure, its not "bricked", but its near useless.
Well....if the phone is indeed 'Stollen' then it would not be a phone anymore, but a delicious German Christmas pastry. Hard to place a booty call with a delicious German Christmas pastry.
I am amazed they can go away with this
I do not believe in karma. "Funny"=-6. Do good and forbid evil. Yours, Oft-Offtopic Flamebaiting Troll.
It's ironic since they'll happily brick your cell phone if you don't pay your bill (to prevent you from selling the phone for a profit). Just try searching for "bad esn"...
I swear I'm one of the only Americans that does not have a smart phone. I am seriously considering returning to a pager. Everyday, as I read more and more articles like this one, I am super happy that I never bought a smart phone and I don't think I ever will. Sure, you can do many wonderful things with an iOS or Android phone, but there are many bad things that can come from them as well.
I thought they did this the world over. They also share their black lists too, so you can't ship the stolen phones to another country. Must be every country except USA.
I disagree, for a couple points:
1. A $50 reward will only encourage people to steal the phones for the reward.
2. Phones aren't just stolen for putting in the criminal's account, they're also stolen to be used as a 'drop phone' for drug dealing and such. So it wouldn't remove all incentive.
I don't read AC A human right
http://preyproject.com/
"Prey lets you keep track of your laptop, phone and tablet whenever stolen or missing -- easily and all in one place. It's lightweight, open source software that gives you full and remote control, 24/7. "
Oh and the code is open, so if you want to add a more complicated "bricking" capability you could.
https://github.com/prey
I purchased a phone off ebay a few years back. I took it to a verizon store to be activated, and when I went to do it, they told me the ESN (basically phone serial number) was coming back as stolen. I then asked if I could:
Get the original owners information so I could give them their phone back. (nope, we can't disclose customer information).
Give the phone to them, so they could return it. (nope, we don't get involved in 'disputes').
Give the phone to the police so they could get the phone back to the original owner and prosecute the seller. (nope, they would also refuse to assist law enforcement without a warrant).
It became obvious pretty quickly they were more interested in selling customers who were robbed and potentially assaulted a new phone than helping them find justice. Any company that takes this stance should be subject to severe fines IMO. I realize there's room for abuse if they "get involved" but at some point you need to look out for your customer's best interests, even if it does cost you the occasional mistake/lawsuit.
Alright. Got it. Thank you for helping me to understand.
If someone steals it, the joke is on them. It will brick itself within six months, depending on the last time I had it replaced.
It's a Moto Defy feature that hadn't occurred to me until this article.
More over, the carries can pin down any device into a certain area. Combine this with data of stolen phones and tracking down is the next step. It can be rather tedious to actually find the phone and that I assume that is why this isn't usual practice.
I hadn't the slightest objection to his spending his time planning massacres for the bourgeoisie... (P.G. Wodehouse)
Here in the UK, we have this. It works really well when combined with a publicity campaign. Anyone buying a phone that then turns out to be stolen goes to the police, and if they bought it from some person in the pub, with no way of tracing that person, then more fool them, they just learned a valuable lesson.
a phone will become a useless hunk of metal and plastic the moment it's reported stolen
Other than the fact that it will happily connect to Wifi networks and carry on as before?
Given that > 90% of a phone's life is within range of Wifi rather than cell, that doesn't sound so useless.
If they wont brick them ( which i can see as being a problem so i agree with them on that ), they can turn off the service for that ID and not allow it to be turned back on ever again unless you prove you are the original account holder. ( if its found )
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Has anyone read Gazelle's ebay store's negative feedback? The majority of it is from sellers getting stolen phones. Maybe the carriers figure that by not bricking these phones they're helping the US economy. Oh wait, except you can't tie these reported phones to a new account...
Are you in the US? What hotels are you staying at that charge you for WiFi?
All of the affordable hotels in the US offer free internet access. And if they didn't, I'm sure you could find a Panera or whatever nearby.
As to your point about the "scam", yep, it's that bad. But to be honest in the US there isn't a lot of alternative. The large carriers don't give you a better deal for not taking a "free phone". So that means in order to save money you have to go to an "off-brand" carrier (or T-Mobile, who unfortunately cannot provide 3G to many phones not on their network), and these offer a reduced level of service. So you pay less but you get less too.
I wish phone subsidies were ended. I'd love to stick with an on-brand carrier, but either pay up front for the phone or just have my bill drop when I've paid off my phone after a year or two.
http://lkml.org/lkml/2005/8/20/95
I think what's worse is that most people just look at the runner and do nothing while the victim yells.
aurait hurlé en français
(Should have yelled in french (google translate))
120 characters ought to be enough for anyone
A friend of mine bought a phone off of Craigslist here in Hawaii despite my telling her that it's a bad idea. She ended up calling her phone company to set it up on her account and discovered that it was stolen. They refused to set it up. They did however provide her with the name of the cell phone company that reported it stolen. I'm confused then about the original post because this wasn't the case in Hawaii.
Other than the fact that it will happily connect to Wifi networks and carry on as before?
If it's bricked it won't.
An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese