Australian Consumer Watchdog Sues Apple Over iPad Marketing

Fluffeh writes "Australia's competition regulator will today take iconic technology giant Apple to court for advertising its new iPad tablet as featuring '4G' speeds — which are not supported on Australian telecommunications networks. One of the key features of the new iPad is support for 4G speeds, however, the 4G speeds which the new iPad supports will not be available in Australia, with Apple's technical specifications page only listing it as supporting the 700Mhz and 2100Mhz spectrum bands, neither of which are being used by Australian telcos to provide 4G services. The case may be a bit shaky, though, as Apple does state in the fine print: '4G LTE is supported only on AT&T and Verizon networks in the US; and on Bell, Rogers and Telus networks in Canada. Data plans sold separately. See your carrier for details.'"

Comments

IMHO Apple is becoming a scummy advertiser

[whoever57]

It's like the release of the Ipone 4GS in the US -- the ads focused on SIRI, but when people complain, Apple then says "It's BETA". That's misleading and frankly dishonest, but probably legal in the USA.

This appears to be just the same: advertise 4G, and in the small print, point out that you will probably never get 4G. It's dishonest.

Re:IMHO Apple is becoming a scummy advertiser

[crafty.munchkin]

Actually, in this case, it's not Apple's fault, which I fully expect them to stand up in court and say. The blame for this particular problem lies with Telstra, who run the only "4G" network in Australia - which operates on a different spectrum than the 4G networks used everywhere else in the world. Incidentally, this is because most of Australia's luddite population (including a lot of my friends and family) are clinging on to analog TV which is still being broadcast on the spectrum band that the rest of the world uses for 4G.

Re:IMHO Apple is becoming a scummy advertiser

[Anonymous Coward]

I guess the question would be... is it's Apple's responsibility to manage the wireless carriers infrastructure? Apple also claims all iPads have WiFi but if you don't have WiFi at your house, should you sue Apple for false advertising?

It would seem to me that the iPad can support 4G, but it's your job to know if your data provider supports it. Apple is not the data provider here. If they were, I think that would be a different story but I'm also not familiar with Aussi law. It's very possible that it's against their laws to talk about capabilities of a product if it's not possible to actually get them at the time of advertisement.

I'm also not familiar with this SIRI gripe. What are people complaining about? That it isn't some Star Trek like AI but the cherry picked phrases used in the commercial make it look that way?

Re:IMHO Apple is becoming a scummy advertiser

[xSacha]

Uh, it's US which runs on different bands to the rest of the world.
Europe and Asia are using Australia's bands.

While Telstra is the only one with a 4G network right now, Optus is launching one in a month and Vodafone is soon to follow.

Re:IMHO Apple is becoming a scummy advertiser

[Anonymous Coward]

Nobody is "clinging" to analogue TV. Analogue TV is on track for shutdown in June, just as it always has been.

Re:IMHO Apple is becoming a scummy advertiser

[_xen]

This appears to be just the same: advertise 4G, and in the small print, point out that you will probably never get 4G. It's dishonest.

Moreover outright dishonesty is not an element the ACCC needs to prove. The claim need not even be false, it need only be misleading

The relevant provision in the new Australian Consumer Law which replaces the old s52 Trade Practices Act 1974 and which the legislature in its inimitable wisdom has chosen to bury in Schedule 2 to the Competition and Consumer Act 2010, reads:

18 (1). A person must not, in trade or commerce, engage in conduct that is misleading or deceptive or is likely to mislead or deceive.

Re:IMHO Apple is becoming a scummy advertiser

[EvanED]

You can make an argument that's a good explanation of why 4G isn't available in Australia. However, if the summary is accurate (RTFA? This is Slashdot!), Apple should get smacked down hard for their ads.

Re:IMHO Apple is becoming a scummy advertiser

[Dodgy G33za]

Typical bloody city dweller.

This luddite, like a lot of luddites in this country is clinging on to analog TV because we do not and will not have a digital broadcast in our area. We are going to have to go to satellite if we want to continue to receive free-to-air.

I am not sure why Telstra is responsible for the frequencies used to broadcast analog TV, but am happy to be enlightened.

As an aside I can't really claim to be clinging on to analog - I have a TV aerial I set up for the Australian Open or football championships, but otherwise I am happy streaming video via mobile, which works quite nicely thanks very much.

Re:IMHO Apple is becoming a scummy advertiser

[whoever57]

Actually, in this case, it's not Apple's fault, which I fully expect them to stand up in court and say.

I make a clear distinction between what is legal and what is ethical. Advertising a a 4G capability that none of the buyers will ever be able to use unless they travel abroad and then buy service is unethical. Telstra may deserve some crticism for only providing 4G on a limited range of frequencies, but that is irrelevent to the fact that the advertisements are highly misleading. Apple knew that the 4G would not work in Australia, yet they decided to advertise it anyway.

Car analogy: car maker advertises car with 1000 mile range, except that it needs unobtanium for fuel in order to get the 1K mile range. According to you, the fault would lie with the fuel companies for not selling unobtanium.

Re:IMHO Apple is becoming a scummy advertiser

[unreadepitaph]

Let's have a look at 4G around around the world shall we?
http://www.worldtimezone.com/gsm.html
Oh look! It would appear that THE MAJORITY OF THE WORLD uses the 900/1800 GSM band.

Apple intentionally mislead consumers, and they were warned prior to the iPads release by the ACCC that what they were doing was in breach of advertising laws.
I've spoken to many CEO's (I work helpdesk for a private hospitals) who wanted to order the iPad and when I told them it wasn't 4G compatible in Australia they were all shocked to hear it. I would assume this is the same with many other consumers as well.

Re:IMHO Apple is becoming a scummy advertiser

[xSacha]

You can easily get WiFi in your house and it is known you will need to transmit WiFi to receive it. Worst case scenario you can go to a coffee shop and get WiFi.
But the 4G on the tablet won't receive the 4G that the local Telcos provide. If you want to use that 4G, you'll have no luck in Australia, Europe, Asia. You have to go to North America!

Re:IMHO Apple is becoming a scummy advertiser

[Whiney Mac Fanboy]

which operates on a different spectrum than the 4G networks used everywhere else in the world

WTF are you talking about? The LTE ipad uses 700, 2100 MHz bands, and according to Wikipedia's 3GPP LTE page:

The LTE standard can be used with many different frequency bands. In North America, 700/ 800 and 1700/ 1900 MHz are planned to be used; 800, 1800, 2600 MHz in Europe; 1800 and 2600 MHz in Asia; and 1800 MHz in Australia.

The US & Canada are the only countries in the world with LTE networks fully compatable with the ipad.

US !=The rest of the world.

Re:IMHO Apple is becoming a scummy advertiser

[crafty.munchkin]

Actually, I live just outside of Melbourne. I don't get FTA reception (digital or analog) at my house, and it's no loss whatsoever.

Telstra aren't responsible for the frequencies broadcasting analog TV, nice way to mis-read what I said. Telstra *are* responsible for setting up a "4G" network on a frequency which is different to 4G elsewhere...

Re:IMHO Apple is becoming a scummy advertiser

[crafty.munchkin]

I stand corrected... I had been told (and stupidly took on faith) the information that Telstra were using a non-standard frequency for 4G. My humble apologies... and to all the 7 other people below who are correcting me as well.

Re:IMHO Apple is becoming a scummy advertiser

[crafty.munchkin]

I like your unobtanium analogy...

Re:IMHO Apple is becoming a scummy advertiser

[Whiney Mac Fanboy]

I guess the question would be... is it's Apple's responsibility to manage the wireless carriers infrastructure?

It is Apple's responsibility to manage their advertising, ensuring that when they advertise a device is 4G compatible, that is is compatible with whatever 4G means in the country they're advertising.

For instance, if a Swedish company was advertising a free slut with each car sold, and it turned out that all you got was the ability for the car to stop (slut means stop in swedish), you'd be.... disappointed wouldn't you? Well, this is the same thing. A company using a local definition in a foreign market to confuse the marketplace.

Apple also claims all iPads have WiFi but if you don't have WiFi at your house, should you sue Apple for false advertising?

This analogy is so fucking stupid that my brain has shrunk slightly upon reading it. How about this? If Apple claims a device has wifi, but it is not compatible with the local regulatory requirements for wifi, then yes, they will get sued.

Re:IMHO Apple is becoming a scummy advertiser

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, in this case, it's not Apple's fault, which I fully expect them to stand up in court and say. The blame for this particular problem lies with Telstra, who run the only "4G" network in Australia - which operates on a different spectrum than the 4G networks used everywhere else in the world.

So aside from the Europe & Asia running their LTE networks in the 1800MHz spectrum, you're suggesting that Australia is the only place in the world that uses it.
Or perhaps it's because Apple chose to support the LTE networks that operate in the US, but nowhere else in the world?

I wonder which one is more likely.

Re:IMHO Apple is becoming a scummy advertiser

[Anonymous Coward]

...Which is really stupid.. If I buy a product sold locally, supporting my local language and whatnot, then I expect the product to be fully compatible with whatever standard we're using locally, and so far I've yet to discover any other product which is using the mobile networks that doesn't support the locally used frequencies, in fact, it's usually the other way around; they tend to (at least for higher-end models) support the multiple frequencies used around the world..

Advertising something that isn't even possible to use in the target area is even worse..

Re:IMHO Apple is becoming a scummy advertiser

[Anonymous Coward]

Accept that you would be an idiot to buy a car without checking *how* it got such great range. Sure, it might sketchy advertising, but you're still a putz.

Re:IMHO Apple is becoming a scummy advertiser

[mjwx]

Uh, it's US which runs on different bands to the rest of the world.
Europe and Asia are using Australia's bands.

While Telstra is the only one with a 4G network right now, Optus is launching one in a month and Vodafone is soon to follow.

Vivid Wireless has run a WiMax network in Australia for over a year. But realistically it's a joke. You get better speeds using Telstra's HSPA+ network.

Re:IMHO Apple is becoming a scummy advertiser

[AHuxley]

re... responsibility to manage the wireless carriers infrastructure?
If a company wants all the first world brand protections and a captive market... Yes it has to be very clear about what a product can do and will support.
i.e. in the real world as sold, out of the box.
If your product is to work with Australian wireless - note wifi, 3g and any sort of new 3g support.
Then your fine. The average consumer is been flooded with 4g ads and sees a product with "4g" - they will spend a ~mortgage payment and expect a product that is 4g ready on day one.

Re:IMHO Apple is becoming a scummy advertiser

[filthpickle]

I've spoken to many CEO's (I work helpdesk for a private hospitals)

did you mean for that to be really, really, really funny?

Re:IMHO Apple is becoming a scummy advertiser

[Scott says]

I see car ads everyday on TV that claim 1000 miles to the tank and then some stupid fine print I cannot read explaining that only one model in the range gets that mileage and blah blah blah. Fine print is the norm from qualifying statements found in advertising. What about the Quibids ads in Australia? "I bought an Macbook Pro for $63"... fine print on the bottom of the screen "paid actor". Could they be more misleading? Lesson: Before buying anything, make sure it works for you.

Re:IMHO Apple is becoming a scummy advertiser

[neonsignal]

Which is why we fund the ACCC, because we aren't complete putzes.

Re:IMHO Apple is becoming a scummy advertiser

[Anonymous Coward]

nigga mothafucka yeah.

Re:IMHO Apple is becoming a scummy advertiser

[gmhowell]

Scummy advertiser? Probably just want to be like GOOG when they grow up.

Re:IMHO Apple is becoming a scummy advertiser

[Anonymous Coward]

if a Swedish company was advertising a free slut with each car sold,

Don't be coy, you're talking about Volva, right?

Re:IMHO Apple is becoming a scummy advertiser

[Dexter Herbivore]

This is the point, and why the ACCC is suing. Apple's advertising states that 4G is a feature even though it's unavailable in Australia.

Re:IMHO Apple is becoming a scummy advertiser

[Anonymous Coward]

If the car company used the word "slut" in a sentence that was otherwise English, they would have a hard time convincing anyone that they should be reading that one word in Sweedish.

Re:IMHO Apple is becoming a scummy advertiser

[jimi1x]

A disclaimer in the T&S is not sufficient under Australian advertising laws. Under Australian law the product must work as the consumer expects, no the other way around. So a consumer seeing an iPad 3 with 4G would reasonably expect it to work on a 4G network. Putting something in the fine print does not alleviate a company of their responsibility. From what I understand our consumer laws over here in Oz are much fairer to the consumer than they are in the US.

Re:IMHO Apple is becoming a scummy advertiser

[rtb61]

The more accurate statement is specific Apple advertising for a product they are selling is inaccurate.

The point to be careful about, is every single ad must be accurate, not just the web site targeted at Australian users, no just major press releases, not just a particular mailing drop, but every ad via every source, be it television, radio, letter box drop, magazine and, newspaper.

Penalties should be applied for all corporate deceit. For the ACCC to initiate a case generally all that is required is a sufficient number of complaints and evidence.

Re:IMHO Apple is becoming a scummy advertiser

[crafty.munchkin]

my blanket apology is above...

Re:IMHO Apple is becoming a scummy advertiser

[crafty.munchkin]

my blanket apology is above... and posted 8 minutes before you posted this.

Re:IMHO Apple is becoming a scummy advertiser

[TapeCutter]

Yep and they are worth every penny they get, I read (with great delight) in this morning's paper that the ACCC were going to ban retail power companies from door to door selling, due to the number of complaints the practice has received from the public.

Re:IMHO Apple is becoming a scummy advertiser

[ATMAvatar]

Whenever there is a global standard and a question on whether the US is following it, the safest best is that the US isn't.

Re:IMHO Apple is becoming a scummy advertiser

[ATMAvatar]

Not if they mentioned it in the fine print :)

Re:IMHO Apple is becoming a scummy advertiser

[unreadepitaph]

Eh?

Re:IMHO Apple is becoming a scummy advertiser

[filthpickle]

That line is absolutely ridiculous to me....You do not speak to a CEO (much less CEO's) if you work helpdesk. I couldn't help but think that I misunderstood you. I asked....I got modded down. It doesn't matter. I wish I could sleep....

Re:IMHO Apple is becoming a scummy advertiser

[clockwise_music]

Banning power companies from door to door selling would be BRILLIANT. I am sick of those guys - the amount of crap they spew is incredible. I've heard it all - "Oh we're just dialing in the new power service", "We don't want you to buy anything", "We're not selling anything" and "Can we just see your bill" are all very common. None of them can answer the question "How much money will you save me?" - so I shut the door on them.

I imagine that someone with no idea about the technology could very easily be sweet-talked into changing their billing company all for no benefit. Go ACCC :)

BTW I have found numerous times that when stuck on the phone to some company, saying "Fix this now or I'm calling the ACCC" often gets your issue fixed.

Re:IMHO Apple is becoming a scummy advertiser

[Hope Thelps]

If the car company used the word "slut" in a sentence that was otherwise English, they would have a hard time convincing anyone that they should be reading that one word in Sweedish.

Exactly, just as if a company uses the exression '4G' in an advertisement otherwise aimed at Australians, they'll have hard time convincing anyone that that one word should be read as aimed at the American market.

Re:IMHO Apple is becoming a scummy advertiser

[gl4ss]

that there is an actual 4g(debatable as 4g doesn't really mean anything) network at all in australia just makes advertising it as 4g scummier, as consumers could buy a device that works on that network. how is it telstras fault that apple doesn't want to kick up a production line for it and that apple wants to just produce one device and ship it globally and advertise it globally with the same adverts?

Re:IMHO Apple is becoming a scummy advertiser

[Gumbercules!!]

Really? Coz I get about 1/4 the speed on HSPA+ that I do on Vivid. I have several customers using Vivid as a last-line backup for their link and they usually get between 10 and 20mbps. I don't know anyone getting that on HSPA+. Then again, Vivid take up in Perth is probably low, so maybe there's less saturation, where as every man and his dog has more than one mobile device.

Re:IMHO Apple is becoming a scummy advertiser

[mjwx]

Really?

Really, Between the hours of 3 PM and 11 PM the speed was unusable. That's if it would stay connected for more then 5 minutes. Telstra's Next G was reliable, faster and hand lower latency. I was glad when I moved and could get ADSL (11 months with Internode, not one problem).

I have several customers using Vivid as a last-line backup for their link

I have one customer using Vivid as a backup and what a nightmare that has been. They push updates to the routers without telling anyone, the update breaks stuff. As I said above, it's unusable in the afternoon and frequently disconnects, Also, vivid has no support for IPSEC site-to-site VPN which has revealed just how useless the connection is. If a stores primary DSL link goes down, they have to stop doing business as they lose connection to the POS server over Vivid.

If any business is using Vivid, drop them like a brick.

Then again, Vivid take up in Perth is probably low

I live and work in Perth, if this is true I'd hate to see Vivid where take-up is high. Then again it was such a successful venture Channel 7 has sold it.

It may not be an issue for much longer, rumour has it Optus is going to shut down the WiMax network so they can use the 2.3 GHz freq for LTE.

Re:IMHO Apple is becoming a scummy advertiser

[kiddygrinder]

heh, you speak to CEOs if their shit is busted.

Re:IMHO Apple is becoming a scummy advertiser

[Anonymous Coward]

Are you American? If so I expect this level of ignorance to what happens in the rest of the world (you know that exists right?). If not, what the hell man?

Re:IMHO Apple is becoming a scummy advertiser

[TapeCutter]

I get 2-3 of them a week. The one who came around the other day tried to tell me he was not selling anything and was only checking that my newly installed smart meter was charging me the correct rates but was evasive when I asked him directly if he was trying to get me to switch providers. I was feeling playful so I took him on a bit of a ride, I let him copy the stuff from my bill on to the contract but when he asked for my phone number, I said; "I'm a bit busy right now and I never sign a contract on my doorstep. How about you leave it with me and I will fill out the rest after I've read it?" - The instant his heart broke was clearly reflected in his eyes. Sounds cruel and it is, but sometimes you just have to pull on the moccasins, play the senile old man part, and fight these time-wasting youngsters with their own weapons.

Re:IMHO Apple is becoming a scummy advertiser

[Anonymous Coward]

Another car analogy: Car maker advertises car with 200 mph top speed, except that the speed limit is 75 mph or less everywhere in the country. Unethical!

Re:IMHO Apple is becoming a scummy advertiser

[Anonymous Coward]

... Except here to connect to 4G you'd have to break laws of physics, not federal laws. In other words, impossible vs possible, but forbidden.

You suck at analogies.

Re:IMHO Apple is becoming a scummy advertiser

[arisvega]

Actually, in this case, it's not Apple's fault ..

Actually, it is.

The case may be a bit shaky, though, ..

No it mightn't. It looks pretty straightforward to me. See below.

as Apple does state in the fine print: '4G LTE is supported only on AT&T and Verizon networks in the US;

Oh I get it- so as long as it does state it in the "fine print", then Apple et. al. are allowed to perform misleading advertizing? Or is there another point here that I am missing?

Sorry about the tone, but I tend to be overenthousiastic when consumer protection laws bite megacorps in the arse.

Re:IMHO Apple is becoming a scummy advertiser

[Anonymous Coward]

Why should I "accept" this?

Re:IMHO Apple is becoming a scummy advertiser

[Anonymous Coward]

To connect to 4G in Australia you could install a 4G cell tower in Australia. How does that break the laws of physics?

Re:IMHO Apple is becoming a scummy advertiser

[paiute]

The more accurate statement is specific Apple advertising for a product they are selling is inaccurate. .

Maserati advertises their GranCabrio as having a top speed of 175 mph, but if I try to go that fast I will get pulled over and probably arrested. Is that then false advertising?

Re:IMHO Apple is becoming a scummy advertiser

[DJRumpy]

Except for the fact that it's advertised right on the package that in Australia, only 3G speeds will be available. The information is listed on the outside of the box above the model number according to iFixit:

http://guide-images.ifixit.net/igi/Kdi1XOouIp1VDAoN.medium
http://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/iPad-3-4G-Teardown/8277/1

Re:IMHO Apple is becoming a scummy advertiser

[Anzya]

Like your analogy but just to nitpick, slut in swedish doesn't mean stop. It actually means "end" as in "the end" or that you are out of something like "We are out of milk" - "Vi har slut på mjölk".
Sluta on the other hand does mean to stop doing something "Now it's time to stop for the day" - "Nu är det dags att sluta för dagen".
If you mean stop as in stopping the cars forward motion though, we probably would use "stanna" or if braking "bromsa". We also have the wrord "stopp" but that is mostly used as exclamation or as an order.

A bit off topic but I have a hard time stopping myself when it comes to words. Grammar on the other hand can go hang it self ;)

Re:IMHO Apple is becoming a scummy advertiser

[Anonymous Coward]

There are 4G cell towers in Australia, it's just iPad can't use them (unless you an make 2.1GHz RF circuits work at 1.8GHz by sheer willpower)

But wouldn't that make for a fine fineprint: "4G compatible!**

**Some infrastructure assembly required. Compatible LTE cell towers not included"

Re:IMHO Apple is becoming a scummy advertiser

[Anonymous Coward]

Except it's a single retailer that puts those stickers on, and "big sticker you see after you bought the gadget" barely counts as advertised when compared with "proudly presented on apple.com.au with tiny footnote saying (only in US and Canada)".

Re:IMHO Apple is becoming a scummy advertiser

[Anonymous Coward]

"Ipone 4GS"

"Ipone" is obviously a typo, but it's the "iPhone 4S." There's no G in the iPhone's name. This is similar to how it's not "Foxfire," or how "/" is not a back-slash: it's just one of those things that gets under my OCD skin. =]

Re:IMHO Apple is becoming a scummy advertiser

[ta bu shi da yu]

No.

Re:IMHO Apple is becoming a scummy advertiser

[ta bu shi da yu]

That's not cruel. My aging mother in law, who doesn't speak English, signed up to one of these deals the other day. She had no idea what she was signing, but she wanted the man to go away.

I immediately called the power company and demanded to speak to someone to cancel the control. Which I can do, because we have a 10 day cooling off period AS LAW in Australia. No commission for scum-sucking salesman. A total waste of their time.

Re:IMHO Apple is becoming a scummy advertiser

[ta bu shi da yu]

Ignore him. He can't but help but be a moron.

Re:IMHO Apple is becoming a scummy advertiser

[Anonymous Coward]

On your private road there's no speed limit.

Re:IMHO Apple is becoming a scummy advertiser

[Anonymous Coward]

Nothing like legal porn to make one feel hot and bothered!

Re:IMHO Apple is becoming a scummy advertiser

[UnknowingFool]

Seems like Apple could have avoided the issue by advertising "4G LTE" instead of "4G".

Re:IMHO Apple is becoming a scummy advertiser

[Anonymous Coward]

But it _can_ go that fast, even where it's against the law. And even if you go to the racetrack and floor the pedal, but reach only 170 mph, it's still not false advertising.

OTOH, you don't get arrested after connecting to LTE in Australia with new iPad, and you don't just get a bit less speed than "up to" number says, it's simply physical impossibility.

"Should not" or "not quite" versus "can not" - see the difference?

Re:IMHO Apple is becoming a scummy advertiser

[Yvan256]

"compatable"?

Re:IMHO Apple is becoming a scummy advertiser

[Michael Wardle]

As I understand it, only UHF channels 52-68 are being repurposed for LTE networks.

Re:IMHO Apple is becoming a scummy advertiser

[Anonymous Coward]

But your original stupid statement is also above... and will be forever.

Re:IMHO Apple is becoming a scummy advertiser

[tlhIngan]

Seems like Apple could have avoided the issue by advertising "4G LTE" instead of "4G".

Actually, that would make things worse, as LTE is what doesn't work.

Now, I don't know the Australian market, so I don't know if there are as many non-LTE (i.e., HSPA+) phones being marketed as "4G" ("faux G") phones. I do know a large number of 4G Andorid phones are really just "4G" phones (T-Mobile was one of them advertising 4G early on, but both AT&T and T-mo do it. Hell, didn't the iPhone get an update that changed the 3G to 4G?).

FInding a true LTE Android phone is actually quite challenging amid all the 4G phones.

Which may give Apple an out since the iPad also supports HSPA+ style "4G".

Re:IMHO Apple is becoming a scummy advertiser

[sg_oneill]

It sure as hell isn't in australia. Judges here hate fine-print. If a reasonable customer can't understand it, then a judge isn't going to believe its reasonable unless the product says "FOR LAWYERS ONLY" in big print. The big concept is a "reasonable person". Ie , not a lawyer, and not a retard, but your average joe. And if the sign says "YOU GET 4G" and the fine print says "not really" , your in big frigging trouble with the judge.

The competition watchdog is a reluctant litigant here, and generally wont sue unless it believes it can win.

Apple is in deep shit.

Re:IMHO Apple is becoming a scummy advertiser

[Anonymous Coward]

And if they refreshed the page 9 minutes before you posted your apology, they wouldn't have seen it. Oh dear. Time to move on with life.

Re:IMHO Apple is becoming a scummy advertiser

[UnknowingFool]

Technically nothing is "4G" according to the 4G specification. While Verizon's and Sprint's implementation is closer to the spec than AT&T, it runs a slower speed than the spec allows. WiMAX 2 and LTE Advanced will be officially 4G, nothing out there is yet. This is also partly on the 4G spec body that allowed all to use "4G" when it was not.

Re:IMHO Apple is becoming a scummy advertiser

[Hellsbells]

Is it false advertising to sell a hair-dryer designed for 110v US power in Australia knowing full well that it won't work properly in Australia?

If the iPad doesn't work on Australia's 4G networks, it should not be sold as as 4G capable just because it can work in the US.

Re:IMHO Apple is becoming a scummy advertiser

[Anonymous Coward]

Check if there's a subsidy available for you to migrate to satellite. If it's just that you can't get good reception of the digital signal being broadcast from the same tower, then satellite will be quite expensive to install. However, people in areas where the local tower is going to be shut down rather than upgraded to digital will generally have access to a subsidy (the "Satellite Subsidy Scheme") to help with the cost of installing satellite equipment.

You can get assistance by calling the Digital Ready Information Line on 1800 20 10 13.

Re:IMHO Apple is becoming a scummy advertiser

[Billlagr]

I read (with great delight) in this morning's paper that the ACCC were going to ban retail power companies from door to door selling

That has made my day!

Re:IMHO Apple is becoming a scummy advertiser

[Anonymous Coward]

You're patially correct, half of Australia might be, but large parts of Australia won't be shutting it of until 2014.
eg.
http://www.digitalready.gov.au/when-do-i-switch/Rollout-map/Victoria.aspx

The 700MHz band is not available for many years.

At a cost of $20 for digital, yes we're clinging.

Re:IMHO Apple is becoming a scummy advertiser

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes. That's the equivalent of using your private cell tower to obtain 4G, so the analogy holds.

Re:IMHO Apple is becoming a scummy advertiser

[Whiney Mac Fanboy]

Thanks for the swedish lesson :-)

I must confess that I just googled "Funny swedish words", knowing that your language would have something I'd be able to use for my analogy.

Re:IMHO Apple is becoming a scummy advertiser

[Whiney Mac Fanboy]

Fair enough, you'd think in this age of in-form-spell-checkers, I wouldn't make a fuck up like that....

That said, if its the only criticism of my post you have, I feel pretty good. I'm sure the meaning was not obscured by a typo.

Re:IMHO Apple is becoming a scummy advertiser

[Anzya]

I must do that myself, might be worth a laugh or two. :)

Just Works(tm)*

[oldhack]

* When it does. Not when it does not, shut up and pay already.

Re:Just Works(tm)*

[Anonymous Coward]

Your forgot to add that when it does not work, that it is a major feature.

Does fine print supercede large print?

[hawguy]

The article says that the fine print may make the case shaky:

The case may be a bit shaky, though, as Apple does state in the fine print: '4G LTE is supported only on AT&T and Verizon networks in the US; and on Bell, Rogers and Telus networks in Canada. Data plans sold separately. See your carrier for details.'"

But why can the fine print supercede what's in the main ad? How can an ad for a 4G device in Australia be legal if that device will never be able to work in Australia? They can list the 4G for USA and Canada on the specs page. As another example, if an ad screams "Unlimited 4G data!!!" in large print, they shouldn't be able to write "Unlimited plans subject to data caps that we won't reveal to you and throttling back to speeds slower than 2G speeds" down in the fine print. If it says "Unlimited" in the large print, then it really should be "Unlimited". Fine print shouldn't be able to contradict the main body of the ad.

Re:Does fine print supercede large print?

[robbak]

The Australian courts have answered this many times: It does not. Fine print does not even trump customers logical expectations.

The only thing that may save Apple is that the boxes have quite a large sticker on the back that states that the 4G capability is not compatible with any Australian network. Assuming that Apple has not advertised 4G in any Australian-targeted advertising, they should be OK.

If they have, then fines and forced offers of refunds will be in their future.

Re:Does fine print supercede large print?

[BasilBrush]

The small print isn't superseding the large print. The iPad you buy WILL be a 4G model. And if and when you are somewhere with 4G it'll be able to use it.

Australia currently isn't one of those places. That's a limitation of Australia not the iPad.

Re:Does fine print supercede large print?

[xSacha]

I thought that sticker was added by Telstra. You only see that if you buy the iPad directly from Telstra. Any other retailer and you won't have a clue.

Re:Does fine print supercede large print?

[Anonymous Coward]

Stop being a numpty. Australia has 4G. Our 4G networks are at 850MHz (telstra) 900MHz (optus) and 2100MHz (being deactivated by Telstra).

It's not a limitation of Australia, it's a limitation of Apple's product philosophy that prevents modular changes to match local requirements.

Re:Does fine print supercede large print?

[batkiwi]

My 4G LTE dongle begs to differ. We do have 4G in capital cities, and the limitation of the iPad is that it does not work with most 4G frequencies, only a small select few.

Re:Does fine print supercede large print?

[Anonymous Coward]

The small print isn't superseding the large print. The iPad you buy WILL be a 4G model. And if and when you are somewhere with 4G it'll be able to use it.

Australia has 4G yet you can't use it, so your statement is wrong.

Australia currently isn't one of those places.

Actually it is, but since the ipad only supports a subset of 4G bands - none of which are in Australia - it shouldn't be marketed as a 4G device in Australia. I don't really care that much as i tether to my phone anyway.

Re:Does fine print supercede large print?

[exomondo]

The small print isn't superseding the large print. The iPad you buy WILL be a 4G model. And if and when you are somewhere with 4G it'll be able to use it.

No, have a look at the spectrum used by 4G networks where the ipad is sold (worldwide) and compare with the bands supported by the ipad and you'll find you're wrong.

Re:Does fine print supercede large print?

[whoever57]

Assuming that Apple has not advertised 4G in any Australian-targeted advertising, they should be OK.

Read this page and then note the "au" in the URL, not also the prices in Austalian dollars. It is clearly targeted to Australia and it highlights 4G capability.

Re:Does fine print supercede large print?

[Splab]

The Danish watchdog is also preparing suit against Apple for the exact same - here in Denmark, the sticker definitely wont be enough.

Re:Does fine print supercede large print?

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh it gets even better than that, check out this apple page - which not only says "4G" but also lists Optus, Telstra, and Vodafone as offering compatible data plans.

Re:Does fine print supercede large print?

[Anonymous Coward]

Relevant link via Google Translate

Re:Does fine print supercede large print?

[Centurix]

Actually, Australia runs common 4G frequencies inline with every other country outside of the US. Turns out it's the US which doesn't comply to 'normal' 4G.

Re:Does fine print supercede large print?

[bloodhawk]

The fine print doesn't make the case shaky at all. In Australia if your ad can be misconstrued as advertising something they don't provide, then no amount of fine print, small print, eula or any other disclaimer they want to add will excuse them from the false advertising laws. They are there to protect consumers from being tricked into making a purchase based on misleading advertising and the litmus test is whether a reasonable person could be fooled into thinking that buying a IPAD 3 would give them 4G access in Australia, given the ads that is a pretty definite yes.

Re:Does fine print supercede large print?

[Anonymous Coward]

And even better than that, when I bought this issue to the attention of the Apple Sales girl, I am guessing in the Philipines, she blatantly stated that Telstra were currently testing their 4G network and that it would be available soon.

Re:Does fine print supercede large print?

[bloodhawk]

That will be disappointing news to the 10's of thousands of 4G users currently in Australia..... hmmmmm nope my 4G phone is still working fine as is my 4G wireless modem I am currently using to post this. perhaps you just don't know what your talking about?

Re:Does fine print supercede large print?

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, Australia runs common 4G frequencies inline with every other country outside of the US. Turns out it's the US which doesn't comply to 'normal' 4G.

No, you're completely wrong. ALL those frequencies are part of the 4G standard, the iTampon doesn't support ALL of the freqs but it IS 4G capable.

And just FYI, it's not "the US" it's the entire North American continent, and I'll point out that Australia only uses one spectrum band where every other region of the world uses at least two and in some cases three or more.

Re:Does fine print supercede large print?

[Terrasque]

There are grumblings about it here in Norway too. Same story. Apple homepage, tooting 4g, showing logos of norwegian operators beside it. And none of the operators support that 4G standard.

Re:Does fine print supercede large print?

[Barny]

That is still considered 'bait advertising'.

The ACCC really don't care about fine print at all, they can, will and HAVE shut companies down simply for saying misleading things in big print and then relying on fine print to save them.

Re:Does fine print supercede large print?

[T-Bone-T]

My iPhone doesn't support 4G but it "supports" it because AT&T renamed 3G to 4G.

Re:Does fine print supercede large print?

[Sez Zero]

Read this page and then note the "au" in the URL, not also the prices in Austalian dollars. It is clearly targeted to Australia and it highlights 4G capability.

It doesn't look that way to me. It reads:

Ultrafast wireless. Full speed ahead. Designed with next-generation wireless technology, the new iPad with Wi-Fi+4G connects to fast data networks around the world.

As a comparison, look at http://www.apple.com/ipad/features/ and http://www.apple.com/au/ipad/features/ Notice the big difference when talking about wireless? There's a gigantic 4G LTE on the default and no 4G LTE on the AU page.

Re:Does fine print supercede large print?

[Dhalka226]

I've often wondered why we tolerate fine print that contradicts, in any way, the actual statements made. Whenever I see a commercial with some claim and an asterisk, my mind usually fills in the bottom portion (which typically shoots off the screen too fast for me to actually read) as "* not really."

In a way it's kind of fun. I think it gives a strange insight into how advertisers perceive us.

I suppose the problem is it's hard to come up with a hard-and-fast definition for a contradiction. Take some diet program for example. "Lose up to 5 pounds per week!" is actually a true statement because the "up to" saves them from the case where people don't lose anything close to five pounds, but if they wanted to add something like "with an exercise routine" to the fine print, is that a contradiction? It could be argued fairly easily that it's not the diet that's helping you lose weight, but the exercise, so did it contradict?

Media Watch

[Anonymous Coward]

ABC's Media Watch mentioned this as part of a larger look into media coverage of the new iPad release. Summary doesn't quite make clear that 4G is available in Australia, it's just that the iPad won't support it.

Silly

[AK Marc]

If they advertised it as "will let you play Angry Birds" and some quadriplegic would then sue because he can't play? It's clear that if the device is a 4G device and you don't live in a 4G area, there's nothing the device can do about it. But roam with it and you will get 4G speeds. Even if you don't have a 4G network in Elbonia or Australia, doesn't mean the device isn't/doesn't deliver on the marketing (it'll do 4G where such networks exist, US and Canada).

Re:Silly

[Anonymous Coward]

Australia does have 4G and is a '4G area'. Australia uses different bands to what the iPad supports.
Although, Apple still advertise it as the '4G iPad' on the Australian website.

Re:Silly

[Anonymous Coward]

Australia DOES have "4G" but not the "4G" that the iPad makes use of

Re:Silly

[inflex]

We do have 4G here in Australia, it's just on a band that the Apple iPad doesn't support.

Re:Silly

[Anonymous Coward]

Australia DOES have a 4G network, it being actively promoted at the moment by Telstra. The problem is that Telstra use 1800Mhz for LTE. Also, I read that the fine print about only working on US/Canadian networks was only added two days ago.

Re:Silly

[PigIronBob]

The Crux of the matter here is that 4G is available in Australia, Apple just can't be bothered making the iPad compatible with the Australian Network, yet advertises as if it were, that is false advertising in anyones book.

Re:Silly

[Farmer Tim]

If they advertised it as "will let you play Angry Birds" and some quadriplegic would then sue because he can't play?

That's ridiculous. You're cherry-picking an extreme corner case, and one that requires anything to be modified extensively to be anywhere near useful. For anyone with reasonable expectations (which is a phrase used in Australian consumer law) it's fine for playing Angry Birds.

Even if you don't have a 4G network in Elbonia or Australia, doesn't mean the device isn't/doesn't deliver on the marketing (it'll do 4G where such networks exist, US and Canada).

Except that it's being advertised with this feature in Australia to Australians. What it can do in other parts of the world is totally irrelevant to Australian consumers and the ACCC.

Re:Silly

[Anonymous Coward]

If they advertised it as "will let you play Angry Birds" and some quadriplegic would then sue because he can't play?

No, obviously otherwise no-one would be able to advertise anything without specifying whether it's applicable in infinite amount of use cases.

It's clear that if the device is a 4G device and you don't live in a 4G area

Wrong, instead of just jumping on the apologist bandwagon and making erroneous statements that make you look like an idiot how about checking the validity of your statements? Australia has 4G, the iPad is incapable of working on the available band so should not be sold as a 4G device in that country.

Even if you don't have a 4G network in Elbonia or Australia, doesn't mean the device isn't/doesn't deliver on the marketing (it'll do 4G where such networks exist, US and Canada).

But there is a 4G network in Australia, the ipad just isn't capable of utilizing it.

Re:Silly

[_xen]

The Crux of the matter here is that 4G is available in Australia, Apple just can't be bothered making the iPad compatible with the Australian Network

Actually the fault for incompatibility lies with Telstra who chose a different band in full knowledge that it would be incompatible with the rest of the world, presumably for their own anti-competitive strategies. This is not to excuse Apple, whose advertising in the Australian context certainly appears unlawful (enough for the ACCC to take action, and they tend to know their consumer law).

The crux of the matter is that Apple just can't be bothered making their advertising appropriate for Australian consumption.

Re:Silly

[_xen]

If they advertised it as "will let you play Angry Birds" and some quadriplegic would then sue because he can't play?

If they advertise to quadriplegics the 'fact' that they could and quadriplegics can't, then they would be in breach of the law. Whether the "some quadriplegic" could then sue, is a question of standing. Remember it isn't some iPad purchaser suing here, it's the ACCC.

Re:Silly

[batkiwi]

By the rest of the world do you mean "The USA" or by the rest of the world do you mean "The rest of the world" ?

Because in Europe, Australia, and Asia 1800 is the standard frequency, with 2600 and 800 being also considered.

In the USA it's 700 and 1700/1900.

Re:Silly

[flimflammer]

The US & Canada isn't the "rest of the world," dude. We (the US and Canada) the ones who chose different bands from the actual rest of the world. Apple shouldn't be advertising 4G in Australia if it can't deliver 4G to Australia. It's entirely deceptive.

Re:Silly

[Max Littlemore]

So since when is "the rest of the world" Canada? The frequency Telstra has picked (1800MHz) looks to be common across Asia and Europe... It's only North America where that doesn't figure.

But not to worry, I'm sure Apple will release the iPad 3S in a few months featuring exactly the same crap as the iPad 3 apart from the wireless chipset that supports 4G in the real rest of the world.

Re:Silly

[Anonymous Coward]

See comments above: Only the US and Canada are using those frequencies for 4G. The frequency Australia uses at the moment is used in "the rest of the world".

Also, if you really want to lay blame for Telstra using what you call the "wrong frequency", blame the ACMA for allocating that band for analog television signals.

Re:Silly

[_xen]

Apple shouldn't be advertising 4G in Australia if it can't deliver 4G to Australia. It's entirely deceptive.

That's what I said.

As far as the "rest of the world," using something other than 1800, I stand corrected. My bad.

Re:Silly

[_xen]

... blame the ACMA for allocating that band for analog television signals.

The things your learn when you post wrong stuff on slashdot. Obviously I allowed my recent altercation with Telstra, whom I'm "forced" to use because of connectivity, to cloud my judgement. I'll just take my tin-foil hat off now.

Re:Silly

[Anonymous Coward]

If they advertised it as "will let you play Angry Birds" and some quadriplegic would then sue because he can't play? It's clear that if the device is a 4G device and you don't live in a 4G area, there's nothing the device can do about it. But roam with it and you will get 4G speeds. Even if you don't have a 4G network in Elbonia or Australia, doesn't mean the device isn't/doesn't deliver on the marketing (it'll do 4G where such networks exist, US and Canada).

No -1 'ignorant moron' mod yet, huh?

Re:Silly

[Anonymous Coward]

Whether the "some quadriplegic" could then sue, is a question of standing

...that's a bit difficult for them, isn't it?

Re:Silly

[Anonymous Coward]

...that's a bit tasteless, isn't it?

Re:Silly

[sjames]

Angry Birds should be perfectly playable with a stylus.Not unlike the way a quadriplegic would type.

A consumer has a reasonable expectation that advertised features can be used in the place the product is sold. Australia DOES have a 4G network.

Re:Silly

[Anonymous Coward]

That's exactly right. Samsung and HTC have managed to make their 4G devices actually work in Australia, why can't Apple?

4G?

[Anonymous Coward]

Apple claims HSPA+ and the other higher speed protocol popular in AUS is called 4G by "some", which is true. It's not LTE but it is "4G'. They claim 4G not LTE gents.

Re:4G?

[xSacha]

The 14.4Mbps that AT&T is claiming is 4G has existed in Australia since 2007 and has never been called 4G.
Whereas that carrier now offers an LTE service which it does call 4G.
People are being misled that the iPad will be able to go on to the 40Mbps LTE network but instead, it can only do DC-HSPA (42Mbps) which is more congested, higher pings and slower practical speeds.

Re:4G?

[bhlowe]

Agreed. My iPhone 4S shows "4G" on the top of the screen... which is a misnomer.. it is HSPA+.. (getting about 1.1Mbps..) When the LTE service is available, the iPhone will say "LTE".

RTFP

[Anonymous Coward]

Read The Fine Print!

Who defines what "G" some thing is?

[Black Parrot]

If I had a company that made the relevant toys, could I advertise them as "5G", or even "6G"?

Who decides what qualifies?

Re:Who defines what "G" some thing is?

[Anonymous Coward]

The ITU

Re:Who defines what "G" some thing is?

[snookums]

The ITU

Indeed. And according to the ITU, HSPA+ is "4G" and you can use the iPad 4G on Telstra's HSPA+ network, thus achieving a "4G" connection.

The problem stems from the fact that in Australia only Telstra's LTE network is advertised as "4G", and it is this network that the iPad is not compatible with. So, technically you can get a 4G connection on the new iPad, but Apple may be in trouble if it is determined that their advertising leads customers to believe that the device is compatible with the Telstra-advertised "4G" network.

Re:Who defines what "G" some thing is?

[mjwx]

If I had a company that made the relevant toys, could I advertise them as "5G", or even "6G"?

Who decides what qualifies?

The ITU (International Telecommunications Union), but telco's have co-opted this to the point that the ITU has said, there will be no 5G.

The original ITU 4G specification was 100 Mbps fixed and 40 Mbps mobile, not even LTE can guarantee this, LTE Enhanced (Advanced, cant remember which) would have been the first but US telco's wanted to brand HSPA+ as 4G and the ITU capitulated.

BTW, Ipads and Iphone dont even support HSPA+

Re:Who defines what "G" some thing is?

[thegarbz]

To be clear it goes beyond that. It's not that their product doesn't support one carrier in Australia, it's that their product does not support the band that the regulator has designated for 4G (everywhere in the world except North America mind you). But it's only a question of advertising such as the Australian iPad website not only makes mention of 4G but also lists 4 Australian companies on the page dedicated to 4G, three of which do not offer 4G services at all.

It's not an issue of compatibility, otherwise every phone manufacturer around the world would be in the shit. It's an issue of completely misleading advertising which is entirely under the control of Apple. Not only does the iPad not support 4G in Australia, but it won't ever support it as we don't use that set of frequencies, so don't advertise it as a feature to us. It's not rocket science.

Also I believe the AC was simply replying to the grandparent explaining who determines what the G standard is, and who will say if you can call something 5G. It's not a marketing term despite what Dilbert makes us think.

Up Next: Apple Sues Australian Telco's

[Anonymous Coward]

Apple sues Australian telco's for not offering the right 4G frequency band.

Apple will win this one

[Anonymous Coward]

Aussies travel, whether the iPad can support 4G or not, is important to a businessman traveling. So it's fine to quote something the iPad can do even if the Aussie telcos can't do it yet.

Re:Apple will win this one

[xSacha]

The Aussie telcos can do 4G and they offer 4G. Telstra has every capital city covered and a few regional areas. That's probably the majority of the population.

They need to sue...

[Anonymous Coward]

...who made "Young Einstein" for not making a sequel. That movie rocked!!!!

Wtf frequency limits?

[RyuuzakiTetsuya]

What bothers me is the idea that the radios aren't dynamic and can't support software frequency changes. Aren't we in the 21st century?

Re:Wtf frequency limits?

[morcego]

Even if the radios can, the main problem is the antenna. Specially if you need power efficiency, which is the case of mobile devices. Losing 60% of your output power due to antenna impedance difference is not something you can afford to have. And that is only one of the issues, the first one that poped in my head, actually. I'm sure there are many others.

Re:Wtf frequency limits?

[Yvan256]

It's already got a shitload of antennas for other things (Wi-Fi, cellular networks, Bluetooth, etc) why couldn't they put antennas for both 4G frequencies, i.e. the fake "4G" for North America and the real 4G for the rest of the World?

Re:Wtf frequency limits?

[morcego]

You know that is a completely different issue than the one of the OP, to which I replied, right ?
Adding 1 more antenna for 1 more freq range is totally possible.

Just like a Ferrari can exceed the speed limit

[Anonymous Coward]

If Ferrari advertises their cars as having a top speed in excess of 200MPH, do we think they ought to be sued because the roads in my country can't handle it and limit the top speed to less than half of what the car is capable of? Sounds nuts now, doesn't it?

Re:Just like a Ferrari can exceed the speed limit

[xSacha]

Except the roads can handle it in this case. Australia telco offers 4G and more 4G options will be unveiled this year. None of them will work on iPad due to it being the wrong frequency band. Yet Apple still advertises it.
Do you know of a case where a phone offers something it can't do in the region they sell it?

Re:Just like a Ferrari can exceed the speed limit

[exomondo]

If Ferrari advertises their cars as having a top speed in excess of 200MPH, do we think they ought to be sued because the roads in my country can't handle it and limit the top speed to less than half of what the car is capable of? Sounds nuts now, doesn't it?

Why can't the roads handle it? There's nothing stopping you from using it on a track.

Re:Just like a Ferrari can exceed the speed limit

[sjames]

The roads and the car can handle it just fine. That is, it will do just exactly what they say. The question is, can you handle a speeding ticket that big?

Why sue only Apple?

[SvnLyrBrto]

It's not as if ANY of the supposedly "4g" devices on the market really meet the 4g spec. (The real 4g spec... before the carriers shoveled a bunch of money into the pockets whoever at the ITU made the call to change the rule so that that LTE and HSPA+ qualify.)

Oh, that's right. We're talking about Apple. And anything Apple does is uniquely evil and must be punished top the exclusion of all others; no matter that it's common practice in the entire industry.

Re:Why sue only Apple?

[xSacha]

Any phones sold as 4G in Australia are LTE phones.
We don't have that problem that US has.
Those phones you see like 'MyTouch 4G' or whatever actually have an entirely different name in EMEA and Australasia.

But there is 4G in Australia...

[Anonymous Coward]

Australia does have 4G. Telstra have been supplying it over the last few months. Of course it's only in select areas but it is planned to be expanded in the near future. Check this coverage map to see all the 4G locations http://www.telstra.com.au/mobile-phones/coverage-networks/our-coverage/mobile-broadband/?red=/mobile/networks/coverage/broadband.html

If the ad was in "Quadriplegic's Monthly"...

[robbak]

... then, maybe. The target of the advertisement matters in cases such as these.

Re:If the ad was in "Quadriplegic's Monthly"...

[Dodgy G33za]

They have a monthly magazine. How do they turn the pages?

Re:If the ad was in "Quadriplegic's Monthly"...

[gl4ss]

they have a mouth. every month they just hope that there's no scratch-to-smell adverts.

What the hell?

[msobkow]

With all their money in the bank, Apple couldn't afford to produce market-specific ads for different countries?

I hope they get their asses sued into the ground for penny-pinching in such a fashion. Given the profitability of the damned things, they sure as hell can afford to use regional advertising!

Re:What the hell?

[Anonymous Coward]

I would agree 100%. If you can afford to sell there, you can afford to tailor your ads to be appropriate and not misleading or false in that market, and you can afford to adhere to the local laws and regulations around both product and advertising.

Updated story

[Anonymous Coward]

Update to this story: http://www.smh.com.au/digital-life/tablets/apple-offers-refund-for-misled-ipad-4g-buyers-20120328-1vxpy.html

On a semi off topic note...

[filthpickle]

I have the verizon ipad 3 in the US. Verizon LTE is pretty impressive where I live. I can't imagine what real 4G would be like....

ACCC should sue Telstra for incompatible 4G !!!

[Anonymous Coward]

Anti-competitiveness is 2nd nature to AU's de facto monopoly - Telstra.

While Apple is no angle in that department, there are 4G standards, &
Telstra's 4G doesn't seem to adhere to them, in AU.

ACCC should have a justifyable go at Telstra for not offering more compatible 4G,
so that 3rd parties can compete with them in the area of distribution of hardware,
IMO.

Re:ACCC should sue Telstra for incompatible 4G !!!

[xSacha]

Optus and Vodafone 4G networks are also incompatible. Also, future networks using analog TV bands will be incompatible.

uh oh apple about to be pwned

[laserdog]

but seriously nobody mess with apple i bet apple makes more money then all of austrelia combined i bet they could buy austrlia then make a 1000 mile long and across swiming pole in the shape of the apple icon

Re:uh oh apple about to be pwned

[Anonymous Coward]

Googled "Apple Revenue": US $108.249 Billion US dollars (September 24, 2011)
Googled "Australia GDP": US $924.840 Billion US dollars (2009)

If you are a troll, not bad.
Otherwise, go away.

Re:uh oh apple about to be pwned

[tibit]

IOW: give Apple a decade or two :)

Re:uh oh apple about to be pwned

[Anonymous Coward]

but seriously nobody mess with apple i bet apple makes more money then all of austrelia combined i bet they could buy austrlia then make a 1000 mile long and across swiming pole in the shape of the apple icon

Okay /. time for a -1 'semi-literate' mod.

Re:uh oh apple about to be pwned

[donscarletti]

Australia's GDP in 2012 is $1.57 Trillion according to the IMF.

It's insane to compare a country with a company. But still, Australia does have 15 times the economy of Apple.

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if war crimes were treated like consumer complaint

[decora]

maybe we could start actually prosecuting people for war crimes?

it seems like you can kill millions of people and get away with it, but if your advertising is misleading, oh my god, the consumer watchdogs will sue you.

maybe if someone could figure out you can 'consume' warfare, then maybe we could have a 'consumers reports' test.

i am not sure what the 'product' is here though. freedom? government itself?

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NZ watchdog receives complaint over iPad 4G

[Anonymous Coward]

The Commerce Comission (equivalent of the ACCC in Oz, or the US FTC) in New Zealand is also considering the same action against Apple (and there are exactly zero 4G networks here)
Commerce Commission investigating Apple iPad 4G adverts after Complaint

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[liaa]

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Re:if war crimes were treated like consumer compla

[jtownatpunk.net]

Plenty of historical precedent. They got Al Capone for cheating on taxes...

EVDO, HSPA, HSDPA, HSPA+ and DC HSPA 3G?

[aristotle-dude]

They cannot all be 3G since EVDO has a maximum 2.45 Mbit/s to 3.1 Mbit/s. EVDO either has to be demoted to 2.5G or HSPA+ and above has to be considered de-facto "4G".

To me, if the typical speed of HSPA+ in some markets is "higher" than LTE 4G in other markets then that means that HSPA+ is 4G effectively.

Re:EVDO, HSPA, HSDPA, HSPA+ and DC HSPA 3G?

[Arker]

None of those are actually 4g speeds. At best they are 3g+.

Re:EVDO, HSPA, HSDPA, HSPA+ and DC HSPA 3G?

[aristotle-dude]

None of those are actually 4g speeds. At best they are 3g+.

What do you consider 4G speeds? Based on what I have seen from people posting their LTE speeds on Verizon and AT&T, 4G appears to be between 11 Mbits/sec and 40 Mbits/sec while DC HSPA can offer up to 42 Mbit/sec and HSPA can offer 21 Mbits/sec as a maximum with an actual speed between 10 - 35 Mbits/sec.

Re:EVDO, HSPA, HSDPA, HSPA+ and DC HSPA 3G?

[Arker]

4G is defined as 100mbit/s for highly mobile units (in a car, on a train) and 1gbit/s for low mobility users (standing still, walking.) Neither LTA nor HSPA qualify.

Re:EVDO, HSPA, HSDPA, HSPA+ and DC HSPA 3G?

[aristotle-dude]

4G is defined as 100mbit/s for highly mobile units (in a car, on a train) and 1gbit/s for low mobility users (standing still, walking.) Neither LTA nor HSPA qualify.

Neither does the current implementation of WiMAX. I don't care what 4G "was" defined as but rather what the new de-facto measure is.

Re:EVDO, HSPA, HSDPA, HSPA+ and DC HSPA 3G?

[Arker]

If that's all you care about why ask the question? Whatever the ad tells you is 4g is 4g. Words have no meanings anyway, right?

Kinda proud to be Aussie.

[Anonymous Coward]

The ACCC is going to be very wary of Apple now that they have, in recent times, sought to deceive the Australian courts and the Australian people in two separate incidents; the Samsung Galaxy Tab photo-manipulation and now deceptive ads... they're going to have to tread verey carefully from now on here if they want to continue to sell their products. If they don't adhere to our fairly stringent consumer protection laws, they could face restrictions on imports of their products; possibly an outright ban if it goes far enough.

Go us :D

Reminds me of USB 3.0

[Anonymous Coward]

I suppose when USB 4.0 is released on MOBOs across the market, consumer watchdogs will be crying for relief if it's incorporated before any conceivable device will support the new standard.

"USA + Canada" = "around the world"?

[bittersdotter]

It's not 100% clear that the regulator will have a case on the specific point mentioned-- it is factually correct that the iPad connects to 4G networks. Whilst on one level you might argue that this is playing on public ignorance as far as the *domestic* market is concerned, the iPad is clearly also a product specifically designed with travel in mind. So advertising on the basis of a feature that works somewhere internationally, albeit not domestically, could be argued to be legitimate and that it is up to the consumer to recognise that some features will be relevant specifically to international use.

[If you do decide that this advertising is misleading enough to censor, then you also have the problem of where you draw the line. What about a camcorder advertised as having a "500x digital zoom", but only a ~500 pixel vertical resolution?-- like 4G connection compatibility in Australia, the feature advertised is technically useless but the claim is still arguably technically accurate. If a computer is advertised as having a quad core processor, is the onus on the consumer or the advertiser to be aware/point out that little software will actually benefit from all 4 cores...?]

On the other hand, you could perhaps get into a semantic argument about whether "around the world" is a misleading label for what actually amounts to "the USA and Canada".

Re:"USA + Canada" = "around the world"?

[Anonymous Coward]

If a computer is advertised as having a quad core processor, is the onus on the consumer or the advertiser to be aware/point out that little software will actually benefit from all 4 cores...?

False analogy. You'd be closer with "computer is advertised as having a quad core processor, but this processor is only legally available elsewhere, only model sold in this country is single core".

Your analogy would apply to this case if it did connect to 4G and was advertised as "up to 40mbps" - the onus is on the telco and customer to find a spot with sufficient signal strength.

It's too easy to be factually correct and misleading - you could be factually correct advertising a car that "doesn't consume fuel at speeds up to 80 km/h* ... *When in free fall", but that wouldn't be very helpful to customer.

Not shaky at all

[Anonymous Coward]

In Australia it is illegal to post big "feature*" advertising where *feature doesn't work. Fine print is not good enough. This is clearly misleading or deceptive advertising. Apple will lose.

Truth in Marketing?

[Anonymous Coward]

The whole "let's lie boldly and then tell the truth in fine print" thing is old. It would be one thing if what they were saying was basically true, or true 95% of the time, and they needed to add some qualifications, which would be too long to fit in the main message, so they relegate them to the fine print - but this is not that.

If it doesn't support LTE in Australia, then the Australian site shouldn't say "Supports LTE!", it should say "Supports LTE (in USA only)", or something like that.
"Unlimited" internet plans with ports blocked, no public IP, and data transfer limits should at least say "Nearly unlimited web browsing - up to 5GB per month!". Then it would be clear (to people who understand the difference) that they are selling web browsing access, not internet access. (Thus, if things like Skype don't work, the consumer shouldn't bitch).

I see so much of this bullshit, and I don't think it fools anyone - it just makes us distrustful. Hell, there is a Steak-House nearby (Sizzlers) that has an "All you can eat" lunch special, but you are only allowed 2 plate-fulls. How is that all you can eat?! Nobody's that stupid, so they may as well just advertise it as "Two Plate Special", and then people would be able to decide whether it's a good deal it not without feeling deceived.

Danish consumer protection agency moves on same

[einar.petersen]

The Danish consumer protection ombudsman has been making waves concerning the same issue as Apple in Denmark is also doing the same kind of misleading tactics. The problem however is that Apple is operating out of Ireland and might be able to squirm away from being held responsible for such despicable tactics. Hopefully, if a lot of consumers get burned by this behaviour, people will trickle away from Apple products...

Not actually a lie

[pbjones]

It is the same WiFi+4G model sold in the USA, and it will currently only work with USA 4G, AND with All/most Australian 3G networks, and I would guess that a firmware upgrade may fix the problem, in time. It isn't a dud, it's just not what people think when they first glance at it. The warning is plane sight when you go to buy on-line. I'm guessing that Apple will get a caution, and they will have to make the 4G conditions a bit more obvious. Meanwhile my local garage sells petrol cheap, oh, as I pull in the driveway I notice that I need a voucher to get the cheaper price, s_it happens.

Re:Not actually a lie

[Barny]

May not be a lie, but it is misleading.

It gives you the idea that you will, in the right areas, get 4G in Australia with these things.

You wont.

ACCC suits are in the order of $1M per violation.

They seem to be offering a refund.

[Anonymous Coward]

I just saw a headline to the effect that Apple was offering a refund to anyone who feels that they bought an Ipad under false pretenses. This is in effect calling the bluff of anyone expecting a reduced price for their Ipad.
"If you don't like it, just hand your Ipad back and do without."

Re:They seem to be offering a refund.

[icebraining]

So, what's the interest rate they're paying over the period during which they kept the money?

Apple is offering refund to Australian iPad buyers

[Anonymous Coward]

http://feeds.reuters.com/~r/reuters/businessNews/~3/qGNPMiKwDTo/us-apple-australia-idUSBRE82Q06Y20120328

"Apple Inc will email all Australian buyers of its new iPad to offer them a refund, a lawyer for the company said on Wednesday, after the nation's consumer watchdog accused it of misleading advertising over one key aspect of the product."

I am guessing exactly zero buyers will return their iPad. Basically, Apple's saying - Fuck you please! Don't like it, give it back - there are plenty of people around the world who'd sell their grandma for an iPad right now.

Worse then MS?

[Anonymous Coward]

I have to say that I am not unhappy about this. These assholes dont care about you or me. I have had nothing but extremely poor customer service from Apple over the last few months. My laptop battery almost exploded and they wont replace it even though its a known issue. The battery fried my motherboard and they are now refusing to help me out. The laptop was out of warranty however the battery caused the problem to the motherboard so they should still honor this and fix my laptop. Given I have also spent thousands of dollars and I mean thousands with them from iTouches to iPhones, mac book air, Mac Pro system a mac mini etc etc you would have thought that a few hundred dollars to help me out wouldn't be too much to ask??

Yes I have gone through every concievable avenue and spoken to all sorts of people in Apple (who incidently tell me different stories) including their complaints department and yet they still refuse to assist. Same old argument, the laptop is out of warranty. What a load of wallop.... I suggest anyone considering purchasing an Apple product to be very careful. You do NOT get what you pay for. Even though they preach to everyone in their adds that their products a better then the compitition, the truth is that they aren't and the customer service is a down right disgrace.

I will NEVER purchase another apple product and I encourage everyone to look else where now. They have become worse than MS in my opinion.

I hope some of those assholes i spoke to look here and read this because you days are number and I hope you end up on the street as a bum for what you have done to me.....

Germany is ahead of them ...

[garry_g]

For ads in Germany, Apple already had to remove the 4G stuff ...

New disclaimer?

[ingsocsoc]

I swear that when the new iPad was first released the disclaimer only said something like, "4G not available in all areas". The Wayback machine doesn't have data for something so recent - is there anything else available?

Re:Apple is offering refund to Australian iPad buy

[hcs_$reboot]

This is the way to go Mr Cook.

Las Vegas Nightclubs

[romahills]

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On the other hand . . .

[Anonymous Coward]

Apple is not the deficient party here. Their device is capable. Perhaps Apple should sue the Australian Telcos?