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OLPC Project Disappoints In Peru
00_NOP writes "The One Laptop Per Child project has disappointed in Peru, reports the Economist, apparently because in general teachers did not make creative use of the technology. As in other cases the computers seem to have been regarded as ends in themselves rather than tools to help change the ways kids are taught. Quite disappointing for those of us looking for Linux-Global-Domination but not really much of a surprise given the experience in richer countries either."
In some circles the project seems to be more about pushing Linux-Global-Domination as opposed to helping educate people.
One Van de Graaff Generator per Child
What if we made sure that every classroom in the world was supplied with a solar-powered, fully recyclable, free-trade produced Van De Graaff generator? We've seen how such devices can spark the interest of physics students in western classrooms over the years. Surely it will have the same effect in classrooms throughout the world! Just present one to the teacher and . . . science!
Next time they should install a proprietry and closed OS on these laptops, thereby increasing their price and enforcing minimum hardware requirements.
Nothing to do with Linux or teaching children something. It was for maximizing sales of allied hardware-vendors to potential new customers. It used comparable sales-methods as bird-flu medicine, but little less scare-techniques.
We always find out how to do the lower layers properly first, with the higher layers lagging behind, the higher the layer the worse its state. We have marvelous manufacturing technologies, slightly less but still sufficiently marvelous CPU architectures, fairly good graphics libraries and toolkits, fairly screwed applications and overall totally incompetent users and processes based on these applications. We can only hope that the situation will improve. Unfortunately, there is human factor involved and that's a spell of doom almost for certain.
Ezekiel 23:20
This kid seems to have gotten the right idea. Maybe even if the teachers aren't using them properly, giving naturally curious kids access to a whole world of information will help them out anyway.
Or maybe that guy was just a unique case, I don't know. That video made me feel all warm and fuzzy inside however.
(If you can't be bothered to watch the video, shame on you! But also, it's about a child in Peru who works cleaning people's shoes on the streets. He has an OLPC laptop, though, and he uses it to educate himself with wikipedia.)
The concept of needing laptops at all for good education is questionable, I think. I'm a teacher in a business college for 15-19-year-olds (Austrian education system has these sorts of schools), and we run some student groups with laptops, while others only use computers for IT classes.
There is a difference in how you need to teach the students, depending on their equipment. But there's no absolute need for laptops, or technology beyond a calculator. For business concepts or for accounting, it's actually better to run things via pen and paper because the students are less tempted to copy and paste, and because it slows down the pace so they have time to think about what they're doing. There is a time and place for internet research, use of spreadsheets for complex accounting or finance calculations, and for plenty of other areas. Get them computer literate, definitely, because a lot of our students end up working in offices and they need the knowledge to use the tools available. But there's no need to get them addicted/dependent on technology to a point where they can't perform simple calculations without Excel anymore, or use their brains without prompting from Google.
The OLPC project is worthy, that's for sure. But I can't say that the results surprise me, they mirror the experiences we're making in a completely different environment. You can run lessons without laptops, and depending on the subject, it's often the more effective way of teaching.
Almost ALL teachers from the richest of schools to the poorest of schools have a horrible education level in computer technology operation and use. I have met multiple PHD holding professors that cant operate a projector to save their life. Even ones that have been dumbed down with a control system that have an ON and OFF button that will do everything. IF the ON button did not work they freak out and never use it again.
WE need to start with all education degrees being REQUIRED to have several computer operation classes. Something a lot more than "how to type letters in word 101" and "internet for idiots 102" They whould be requlred to go through a couple of more advanced classes like "education systems troubleshooting and use 204"
Once you get the teachers comfortable with the technology, they will start using it. Did the OLPC people give the devices to the teachers a YEAR before the kids? Because the teachers should have been given them AND classes on their use in the classroom.
I will bet you the OLPC people simply dropped a shipment in the schools and said "we givith! use this wisely" and walked away.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
I own one of the first OLPCs. The problem isn't Linux. (I hate to think of Win XP running in 256MB system, 1GB storage.) The problem is the whole philosophy of "it's not a computer, it's an education tool." (Or however they put it.)
No. A computer is whatever the user wants it to be. If you try to make that difficult, it'll fail sooner or later. The less money behind it, the sooner.
The educational philosophy they were pushing works for some subjects, some of the time. But they should have made it easy to use the OLPCs any way people wanted much earlier. It was only some time last year that a simple desktop switcher (sugar - gnome) was included with the basic OS. For me, at least, not having an ordinary filesystem available was a showstopper. I'd been dualbooting debian since the beginning, but all the trial and error to accomplish that isn't something a lot of teachers would do. But initially, for the first four years!, there was a lot of resistance to just giving people a familiar interface.
Then there were the hardware limitations. Even for Linux, at least the Fedora they're using, 256MB is barely enough to breathe. The keyboard takes a lot of getting used to. I'm not sure they ever got the expanded touchpad working.
So, like I said, nice idea, but they should have put more effort into improving hardware, providing the software people want, better distribution so they had a larger community of enthusiasts to write code for the project and help on (better organized!) forums, and kept their goofy educational philosophy for the people who wanted it.
If your project is led by somebody who believes that the way forward is to drop OLPC laptops out of helicopters into villages and completely bypass locally respected educators, because of the belief that outsiders giving people technology will educate them, what hope have you got?
If the project doesn't seem to respect local teachers, then claims that the reason the project has failed is because of the teachers, well I am suspicious of the findings, or maybe at least suspect a bias.
Is the project too technology led rather than built on sound pedagogical frameworks to support children's education?
Providing teacher training to enable teachers to better employ the technology in their teaching practice (what The Economist article suggests) before dropping all the laptops into classrooms would have been less media friendly but perhaps a more successful strategy.
It does feel like the old story of rusting high tech white elephants in developing countries: well meaning, lots of money spent, not much time understanding local grassroots needs, working with the local educators on the ground. Stuff just gets dropped in with no support and surprise surprise doesn't get used well or technically maintained.
The technology is the easy bit. Engaging with local communities to understand their needs is time consuming and more difficult.
"Surprise, surprise, surprise!"
"The One Laptop Per Child project has disappointed in Peru" I don't know why but that just sounds weird to me. Maybe "The One Laptop Per Child project has been a disappointment in Peru" or something, I don't know, but the way it's written just makes me want to cringe.
First, the project couldn't have even been done financially using any other OS/hardware combination. Second, the real reason technology doesn't improve education is we are treating it like magic and not as a productivity enhancement tool. The first computers used by government and business replaced rooms full of people by calculating stuff faster and with fewer errors. Even today, a smart phone replaces the need to have a map, newspaper and phone booth in a strange city when you want to see a movie (recent experience). In education, you don't have the incentive, or the viewpoint, to use technology to make the teacher more efficient at educating, and/or the student better at learning. For example, in the United States, teachers and other workers in education, but not educating, spend a significant amount of time on non-educational activities. Putting effort into automating and reducing the impact of those activities on the learning day, is a good use of technology. A bad use of technology, is replacing an existing working tool with a complex device that does the same thing, but adds overhead and requires more effort.
Before educating the students, they should have taught the teachers how to use the tehnology.
Since once they're out in the working world, they'll find what they're used to already: Windows!
By the time any of them are out in the working world, Microsoft will have gone through several generations of Ribbons and Metro and whatnot other changes. What kids need is to learn to write and structure documents, not the finer points of style and formatting. They need to be able to use their math in spreadsheets, making formulas and chaining them together, not making pretty management reports. That's not to say it won't be important in the future, but that's it's mostly pointless to learn it now to know how it'll be in Word and Excel 2022.
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
Give up Penguins: U've tried it & failed 4 decades since "the year of Linux" is never going to happen on PC's + Servers combined @ both home user & corporate environs levels. U FAILED.
May I remind you Android is Linux?
Questions raise, answers kill. Raise questions to stay alive.
Somehow we have developed this absurd idea that you simply have to place a computer in front of a child and ~POOF~ they are magically educated, with no thought or work required by a teacher or anyone else. As a result, many billions of dollars have been spent putting computers in every classroom, and it has been a gigantic waste of money, because computers are completely unneccesary in education. Maybe in the last couple of years of highschool it makes sense, but in the early years, a computer serves no useful purpose in school and actually hinders important learning.
Computers are fantastic, powerful and useful tools. but so is a bulldozer, and we don't insist that young children must learn to operate a bulldozer or else they will not get a proper education.
Amen on the comfort level of teachers with technology. But you also need to get them to a point where they know when to use computers and when to stay away from them, or you'll raise students who're incapable of solving problems without internet access.
I don't know if giving them to the teachers a year in advance would help anything. With no impetus to use it, and no students who have it, they could just as easily ignore it completely. I'd wager more that we're dealing with the very serious issue of how you write good educational software - which has been at a horrific standstill for a very long time.
... this doesn't come as a surprise to me. Teaching in Ecuador is mostly "frontal assault", the kids are told all the time what to do. Copy that, etc. One student told me - after I quit - I was a go teacher and he liked me, because I didn't tell them all the time "copy that fast"... Basically my impression was that the schools condition the students to be "recipients of orders" ("Befehlsempfänger").Now on the one hand there is quite an authoritarian rule and on the other they just don't care too much mixed up with some totally unnecessary bureaucracy, e.g. every teacher had to sign that he arrived on that day in school and that he left, also entering the time - makes sense. But you would sign twice at once, also if I was late, it wouldn't matter I should write the time I should have been there... furthermore a teacher was running around and taking these signatures, usually interrupting the lessons by doing it...
Also I worked a bit in an Internet cafe, what you consider a power (or even normal user) in Western Europe would be an admin there...
Ecuador and Perú are quite similar. I was in the jungle region, which is probably the least "developed" one.
Now wait though, this guy has provided a perfectly good point. As you can see, there are some instances where a computer is a complete waste on some individuals.
I mean, of course most adults, anywhere, won't know how to take advantage of a computing engine or how it can help their child (even if they had explicit instructions). I kind of thought half the idea was to open a path for some of the children to find something special after tinkering with that little box.
The idea that you can automate something isn't something that just occurs to everyone. The young are most able to see something repetitive or annoying, and decide to figure out how to use a tool in a new way to make their lives less lame.
Those young people grow up, and start to see how they can do that to a lot more around them. They start to use resources in ways that would be seen as completely impractical just to automate more things... and change the country completely.
Yeah - the teachers and other adults aren't going to be 'creatively' using these things for much - because they're busy providing minimal resources however they can. Creativity takes time, something they almost never have anymore.
The adults teach the children by showing them the wrong ways to do things.
Ryan Fenton
Part of the problem with the standard approach to computers in education is that they are treated as tools for helping students learn how to use pre-computer techniques for solving problems. There is a tendency to treat computers like a combination flash-card/homework-grading system. We give students prepackaged education "solutions" that are supposed to reinforce traditional book learning, and lock down their computers so that they can only use the software they were given.
We should instead focus on teaching children how to solve problems by writing programs. We should have a completely different approach to computers in education, because computers are different sorts of tools than what we had previously. Let students hack, and moreover create an environment that is friendly toward programming. We live in a computerized world; programming should be considered a matter of basic literacy at this point.
Palm trees and 8
A lot of people say this, and I'm extremely skeptical of the sentiment, since it very much mirrors "you can't give students calculators!" and has many of the same fallacies, since anyone who has done basic algebra or calculus knows a calculator won't help you at all - and neither will me getting stuck on a sample problem for 16 hours, until I can ask for help from a teacher...who may not be interested or available or even particularly knowledgeable on how to solve it.
LOL, an insta-moddown 4 telling the truth around here always happens.
WE need to start with all education degrees being REQUIRED to have several computer operation classes. Something a lot more than "how to type letters in word 101" and "internet for idiots 102" They whould be requlred to go through a couple of more advanced classes like "education systems troubleshooting and use 204"
Well, if this is what you're trying to accomplish, just print out this handy graphic and you're done.
Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
QUESTION: IF Linux is "so great", why's it last place in marketshare/user mindshare on PC's & Servers combined from the home end user level right up into corporate production environs?
You need the balance, just like with calculators. Give them calculators. But also make sure they're able to estimate whether the result of their calculation/research/query is correct. If you train them solely by using a specific sort of tool, they become dependent on that. Show them a few alternatives to get to a result, then let them choose.
It may depend on student age, but the amount of times I run into teenage students who blindly trust their calculators and don't pause to think whether 4% of 200 really can be 500 is startling. I'm not a fan of deprieving them of the technology, but they need to realise that they'd better do a rough mental double-check as well.
Seriously, I just returned six days ago from a week in Lima, where I visited partners who buy used computers (for repair, refurbishing, recycling business). At one of the shops (which had 22 repair employees) they showed me one of the One Laptop Per Child laptops they'd gotten their hands on. They were absolutely ridiculing it compared to the price of used Pentium III laptops they buy in bulk from off-lease. I just wrote about the trip a few days ago. http://preview.tinyurl.com/peruewaste
The refurbishing business itself is falling off in Lima, however. (No joke, I saw used CHINESE CRT televisions - the Chinese cities are upgrading and selling their own used goods to South America and Africa). But the cheap white box models from China show the most growth in the market.
In short it's a mature market and the whole charity command-and-control, of "e-waste" and white box laptop sales, is rife with at best piss poor market research, and at worst just making things up out of thin air. Read Harvard Business Review Article, http://tinyurl.com/chinagoodnuff The Battle for China's Good Enough Market (2007, written by Bain & Co consultants), to see how the changing consumer demand is being mis-marketed to. Lima had 9M residents, I had no problem finding wifi, and the geeks of color in the used electronics markets all had smartphones.
Gently reply
The concept of needing anything/em> for a good education is questionable. The computer is a tool which is capable of good (through assisting the teaching of subjects), evil (distracting the students or supplanting the teacher), or pointlessness.
First, the tool has to be assessed, to see if it's suitable to assist in the teaching of a subject. The computer can be mighty flexible, and beside running Excel to actually do the accounting, it can present information, quiz students on topics being learned, and even make corrections based on incorrect answers. (And yes, I include properly done Powerpoint under the heading "present information." LibreOffice's Presentation tool qualifies too.)
Second, the tool may need to be tweaked to work for a specific purpose. The last two, quizzing and correcting, ride on the assumption that somewhere behind the scenes, someone in the school's employ is using a relatively simple scripting tool (LiveCode comes to mind) to create the lessons, and to further present on correct techniques when wrong answers are given.
Third, the tool has to be accepted and understood by the teacher. A tool unused is meaningless, but a tool misapplied can do more harm than good.
And fourth, the tool has to be accepted and used correctly by the students. Same principle as above: if they don't know how to get the information out of it, they won't larn nuffin'. A sweet UI and finely honed educational software stand no chance against a blithering idiot.
My mother taught learning disabled preschoolers. I watched with some horror as she sent one student after another back for "computer time" unattended, and they kind of puttered around with it. The worst was what I dub a "click-monster"—he might as well have been blindfolded and firing a machine-gun the way he was clicking. It was like recess, but nothing was being exercised except index finger and wrist.
With a little time, expense, and staff education, the computer can be a fantastic tool for teaching and learning. I can appreciate that without that time and expense, the tool isn't nearly as useful.
You cannot truly appreciate Dilbert until you read it in the original Klingon.
Another STUPID project perpetuated by the Bono types of the world. Another COMPLETE waste of time. Give these kids textbooks and be done with it. You don't need to CRANK a textbook to read it. You aren't going to crack a textbook when you drop it. Textbooks are cheap to replace. Textbooks aren't distracting. A shipment of textbooks isn't going to be stolen, reprogrammed, and sold as something else on the black market.
The OLPC project is a "has been" project and is no longer worth the effort. Most of the "innovators" have left the project to move on to other things. I believe this is because the show is over and it is a failure. The project was essentially a misguided attempt by the wealthy world to help the poor in order to make those wealthy innovators look good for their own resumes. Case in point, Ivan Krsti is a self absorbed douche and not as bright as he is made out to be. He has moved on to work for Apple, a company that exploits the third world instead of helps it. If he truly believed in the vision of OLPC he wouldn't have done this.
It's as much Linux as an Xbox is a Windows platform.
It's just natural that there is no 'common creativity'. That's how human's creativity-skill is distributed.
I see the project as great success if in the there are only say 100 pupils that are becoming skilled computer-freaks because they now got the chance to it! .. well, like if you give supercomputers to the crowd here, 99% would only surf facebook with it.
The rest
I remember getting an F in "computer class" (elementary school in the early 90s) because when we were supposed to be learning to use a drawing program, I instead wrote a BASIC script to draw the image we were supposed to draw. It didn't matter in the slightest to the teacher that I was able to attain the result in a far more efficient way or that I was able to actually write my own program, nope, I didn't do it exactly the way she said to (and thus exactly as the book said).
This always annoyed me in school, you put this incredible, mysterious and powerful machine in front of a student, the student already has a basic understanding of some of the amazing things this machine is capable of, so the student is incredibly excited. Five or so years later when the only thing the student has been taught to do is use the computer as an alternative to a pencil and paper, then you have a problem.
It's like putting kids in a giant room filled with Legos and only allowing them to use the blocks to build 3" tall numbers to answer math equations straight from a book.
Read the original report. "The intervention generated a substantial increase in computer use both at school and at home. Results indicate limited effects on academic achievement but positive impacts on cognitive skills and competences related to computer use." I would not call it a failure, more like a reasonable success.
And in other news, the sky is blue, water is wet, and gravity sucks.
Seriously, let's stop looking for magic cures and start focusing on fundamentals, such as better teacher recruitment, selection, training, and retention. The add a layer of technology and facilities on top of that. Not sexy and a lot of hard work, but this approach will probably get the best results.
putting the 'B' in LGBTQ+
The OLPC project was always one step near the infamous "Bibles for Haiti" project - a condescending view that an "easy answer", one which is easily mass-manufactured will miraculously solve a hard social problem. That the OLPC-ers are technocratic instead of theocratic makes little difference with regards to the efficiency of the approach. What *should* have been sent are *teachers*, but it's much, much harder to send teachers into the wilderness when they are already so lowly regarded in the western world.
-- Sig down
It's as much Linux as an Xbox is a Windows platform.
You can develop software on Windows that will run on both Windows and Xbox 360 with little more than a recompilation if you develop with that intent. That makes Xbox a Windows platform.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Android is a Linux system like Ubuntu is a Linux system. Even the smallest and cheapest Android devices run a full-fledged Linux kernel that could just as well be used as a basis for a desktop system. The XBox(360) does not use a Windows kernel, not even one of the embedded "Windows" kernels. The API is similar to the Windows API, but not the same either.
WE need to start with all education degrees being REQUIRED to have several computer operation classes. Something a lot more than "how to type letters in word 101" and "internet for idiots 102" They whould be requlred to go through a couple of more advanced classes like "education systems troubleshooting and use 204"
I think that part of getting a degree in instruction ought to involve an A+ cert class and maybe a N+ too, and certainly some type of programming class but it can be a really conceptual kind of thing, psuedocode for all I care. Computing and networking are fundamental building blocks of learning in the same way that mathematics or history are. Having a computer and not being a programmer is like having a swiss army knife and only knowing how to use the corkscrew. I did have some pretty pedestrian programming classes -- we even learned BASIC once a week in elementary school from about fourth grade on, while BASIC with line numbers may be evil at least I was open to the idea and took LOGO in Junior High, and today I can at least do some sorts of programming tasks, making the computer vastly more powerful for me than for someone who can't. I don't want a medal; the ability is its own reward. More ability would be more rewarding :)
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
yes, Apple and Google should just shut down shop and go home because Microsoft has the answer today and into the future. FAIL!
Did you ever hear that the reason companies hire college grads is not so much because of what the learned in school be the fact that they could be taught something new? And if kids are being taught what pictures to click on and not the concepts of word processing, spreadsheets... oh wait, you were talking about the user interface(UI)... I guess by default all Windows users know Microsoft's Metro UI?
In other words, your comment is a big FAIL. It's about learning to learn, not what the tool's UI or apps look like.
LoB
"Anyone who stands out in the middle of a road looks like roadkill to me." --Linus
U get insta-moddown on /.: See how moderation works on /. everyone?
For the same reason Justin Beiber has the most viewed video to his name on youtube.
Some apps are WYSIWYG. Some others are WYSIWTF.
Kids that young do not need computers to learn. They need to be taught the same 3 simple basics that have been taught in every primary school for decades: Reading, Writing, and Arithmetic. You do not need computers to learn or teach any of those. Introduce them to music and art to round out their education. Then in high school start introducing them to computers. And no, contrary to what some people like to think, these students will not fall behind the other kids that had access to computers. Using a computer is a skill. A very easily obtained skill. And high school is early enough to start teaching kids this skill.
Technology never helps education. Classrooms in America are filled with outdated computers that barely work, because administrators never allocate funding for (adequate) tech support and repairs/upgrades.
If you want to "fix" education, use money to buy books, buy school supplies, to pay teachers, to bring back art, music, and vocational classes, to restore the regular school schedule (kids are in school less days per year than ever before), and to clean up and maintain the school campus.
Wait, why aren't these things being done? Because school administrators mismanage all the money. They funnel it into unworkable projects and into lavish expenses for themselves. They never ask teachers what they need, or ask students what they want, or look at real studies about what school programs are beneficial and which are not.
In a third world country I'd think they'd just want qualified teachers and supplies, period. I'm a huge backer of technology, but I also am passionate about education and it is beyond clear that giving everyone a computer doesn't help. It's trendy, hip, expensive, and pointless.
Cliff Stoll is probably unsurprised. As am I. A computer is a tool to accomplish a task, and giving computers to kids who don't have any use for them is likely to be less productive than giving them all math textbooks.
I've seen this from both sides. One of the schools I work at used to have an older chemistry professor that basically refused to use modern computers. The department had to hire a part-time student worker to do email and submit attendance and grades for the guy. He wasn't a technophobe - he used an old Pentium PC to run research software - he just stopped keeping up with computer progress.
On the other hand, I can see why teachers might avoid technology in the classroom. In my experience, schools seem to hire IT professionals out of the business sector who tend to bring business-class technology solutions along with them. Like help desks and call centers that treat students and staff like they are low-priority clients. Smart board systems that require a remote control and a pointer/wand device to fully utilize . . . the remotes and wands disappeared within months of deployment, so now the boards are very expensive marker boards and projector screens. Access to and quality of classroom technology can be highly inconsistent and, thus, frustrating to use.
This idea is nothing new. In the sixties it was typewriter skills which led to a lot of schools using IBM selectrics for typing class. In the seventies, it was ten key calculators which led to 6 to 8 week courses in using a calculator to add and subtract. In the late seventies, it was programming on cards in a high school lab and then led into Apple IIs in a dedicated computer lab. In all of these cases, the idea was that the technology was so earthshaking, that you just drop these machines in front of teachers and have a coherent lesson plan materialise out of nothing. (and if I sound biased, it is because my mother, a jr.high math teacher, was given the plum job of running the computer lab where her major worry was keeping the students from stealing the computers, keyboards or mice. She was the best available choice for the job but had no training or experience, only that she was a math teacher was over thirty years teaching experience.. She was provided with little materials other than showing students how to turn the computer on, copy files to a floppy, and use a notepad type editor. Not a lot to work with.)
Right now, these technology grants are being spent on tablets. What would be a good curriculum for those devices?
In the school system I grew up in, teachers would never admit they could use a computer even if they could. There were so few qualified computer teachers, that merely admitting you knew more than how to browse the web meant you'd be teaching computers the next year.
Well, that depends. I can tell you that the computer/programming education I got at my school interested 0 people. Everyone who was into computers got into them at home, in their own time. I wouldn't put much faith in educators over the curiosity of some of the kids.
Here in Spain politicians thought that they could improve the education problem by giving latops to the students instead of addressing the real problems and without providing educational contents. A computer can be a god teaching tool. for example: *A virtual tour of Pompeii using Google Street View *Some years ago I watched a cool 3D animations of various celular processes. I wish I could watch this in my high school days, it would have helped a lot. *Use plotting tools to manipulate mathematical functions. *A virtual laboratory But as far as I know they use the latops only for word processing or ebooks.
These laptops should serve primarily as a vehicle for providing cheap and convenient access to learning material, plus a means to become part of the online world. If it can render PDF files and various other formats, then anyone with an OLPC laptop can potentially have access to a vast archive of various subjects. Who cares about whether or not these devices are used "creatively".
It makes sense to put Linux on the laptop, because it does the job just fine without having to pay any 3rd parties for the privilege of distributing laptops to children in need. Plus it gives those kids an open platform for hacking away as much as they want.
Obviously, the device is of little use without content. I have never looked into the OLPC ecosystem so have no real idea what exists there, but I would imagine it would make sense to divert some of the funds that go into making the device, into making electronic books for various topics (basic math, world history, etc) and translate into some of the major languages.
Thinking about it, with a planet of 7 billion people and looking at all the money that go into various wasteful or pointless activities, it is quite sad that there does not seem to exist some universally available fits-on-a-USB-stick "learning package" for the first ~12 years of education.
Android's a Linux that's being "torn up" 4 security. See subject-line & what you quoted also: What you quote specifically notes PC's & Servers combined
You mean the already irrelevant niche for the home user - in which the mobile devices outnumbers the PC-es?
Also, I think you shouldn't shout that loud about the failure of Linux on the server, you may cause a market crash if some of the following decide to enter voluntary administration when they hear you qualifying as failures the followings: Google internal infrastructure, NASA and the other major users of OpenStack, IBM and other modern supercomputer builders, VMWare baremetal virtualization products, NYSE and London Stock Exchange...
Questions raise, answers kill. Raise questions to stay alive.
But you prove his point...
"ANDROID RED 7" Mini Laptop Notebook Netbook PC WiFi TONS of Apps Games Android 2.2 Market Flash Player Built-in Camera 4gb HD 256mb Ram 1-2HR Battery Life by WOLVOL" link
AccountKiller
Just throwing money and/or technology at a problem doesn't automagically fix it. The greatest tool we have is our brain, but we need to use it's full potential in making the most of our external manmade tools to get ahead.
Look back up at my post, now look back down, you're on the Internet. Now look back up. I'm a signature.
The age where Windows is the default interface people learn is rapidly coming to a close.
Good-bye
But you prove his point...
I admit, I'm dumb, I fail to get it... exactly what his point would be?
Questions raise, answers kill. Raise questions to stay alive.
Thanks 4 proving a point: U post facts penguins can't handle = insta-downmod.
U get "insta-downmodded" due to facts penguins cannot handle!
It's as much Linux as an Xbox is a Windows platform.
Just for the challenge... one of this days I'm going to write a simple application (I don't know, maybe involving some fork/exec and file I/O to hit some syscalls as old as UNIX), cross-compile it on my lubuntu for the ARM in my recently bought tablet, put it on a SD-card and attempt to execute it on the tablet...
Good chances it will work. If it will, would it be proof enough for you that Android is a Linux?
Questions raise, answers kill. Raise questions to stay alive.
Especially for employment possibility purposes - > http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2772023&cid=39606887 and in top-notch academia institutions, government/state agencies, best companies to work for & more (I couldn't even FIT all the ones that post should have in fact). Windows is out there people, far more than Linux, and where it counts in employment opportunities the most & where the generally better paying jobs are - The Fortune 100/500.
No spin forthcoming - the 'insta-downmod' sure did (proof u won easily when that's all they have) vs. what you KNEW was going to come out here http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2772023&cid=39606837 vs. facts + common-sense (not big items around /., lol) that u used.
U got an unjustified moddown. See how /. moderation works?
Show where I stated that explicitly? I did use facts of Windows use in the Fortune 100/500, top educational institutions, best companies to work for & more here:
http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2772023&cid=39606887
Which I got an "insta-downmod" for that no less! That is weak.
That's what the "linux 'hive mind'" around here use when they are confronted with facts like I post that they cannot handle, obviously (hence the insta-moddown).
Yes kids - see how /. moderation works vs. facts/truth posted even?
It's certainly Linux, but not GNU/Linux
Or as I've recently taken to calling it, GNU plus Linux. Linux is not an operating system unto itself, but rather another free component of a fully functioning GNU system made useful by the GNU corelibs, shell utilities and vital system components comprising a full OS as defined by POSIX.
Many computer users run a modified version of the GNU system every day, without realizing it. Through a peculiar turn of events, the version of GNU which is widely used today is often called "Linux", and many of its users are not aware that it is basically the GNU system, developed by the GNU Project.
"Shut the fuck up, APK. You're a fucking kook, and nobody takes you seriously." by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 07, @12:37PM (#39607045)
He surely was taken seriously by U w/ ur profanity laden tantrum, lol! Between the unjustified mod downs for posting facts penguins cannot deal with and then your "foaming @ the mouth" reply quoted above? U only help prove his point.
To provide online and written help targeted specifically at teachers. Everyone seems so busy selling product, whether it be computers, testing, software, etc. they tend to forget that there are humans, who must actually use this stuff to make it work.
You mean like microsoft does when, for example, Argentina was going to move it's schools to Free Software, the local GLUGS where going to donate the work, RMS traveled to Buenos Aires and had a meeting with the ministry of education, and the next day microsoft pushed a few buttons, greased some politicians, and managed to sell a shitload of licenses at a discounted price, forcing the ministry of education to stop the project so the money invested in "discount licenses" wouldn't go to waste? That's what I call a new low. Anyway, bad troll, 0/10.
WTF am I doing replying to an AC at 5 A.M on a Friday night?
Doesn't the existence of Android prove that Linux is more than a "component" of some "GNU OS"?
How can we continue to believe in a just universe and freedom to eat crackers if we have no ale?
Oh, and, BTW: The GNU project started in '83, the Linux kernel started in '91, and usable distributions of GNU/Linux didn't became available until '93. It didn't became feasible to use it on the Desktop massively until 2000. So GNU/Linux on the desktop is at most just a bit over a decade old.
WTF am I doing replying to an AC at 5 A.M on a Friday night?
Competent educators will succeed with a piece of charcoal and a flat rock. Dysfunctional education systems will only use technology to squander money more effectively.
If you are going to pick an OS that they are likely to encounter in the real world, perhaps the next generation should run iOS (yeah, I know that will never happen).
And if well teachers were a problem too (both for the ones that didnt worked with computers, as for the ones did, as the interface is not the usual desktop) that , would not put the experience as something dissapointing, heck, in a good amount of cases were the children that showed their teachers how to use it. At least here Is evaluated as something very possitive, not just for the children, but also for their families. Is not perfect, but is making possitive changes that probably will be more visible in 5-10 years.
Doesn't the existence of Android prove that Linux is more than a "component" of some "GNU OS"?
Yup. It shows why we need to make a distinction between GNU/Linux and Android/Linux.
I disagree that the idea of teaching typing and calculator use was because the technology was earthshaking. They were taught (usually as part of a 'business' curriculum) because with those skills you could actually get a useful job (typist or bookkeeper) right out of high school. Same with keypunching. The Apples are where the wheels started falling off. Using an Apple II was not a useful skill, no business was using them. That was the point where an attempt was made to use the computer as an educational tool in itself, often with bad results.
He, uh, meant Internet years. Or something.
Space game using normal deck of cards: http://BattleCards.org
That's a linux marketing FAIL not fail 4 Linux on servers. Twisting words != making a point. Learn 2 read above all else/see subject-line above.
Well to start with, I worked for Hilton Corp in Memphis, TN (headquarters) and we used exclusively Solaris servers. There isn't one Windows Server, going as far as OpenLDAP for authentication and not windows.
Now for most of these I read "Managing X customers using Active Directory" And you are right, since most companies use Microsoft for personal computers, most use Active Directory to manage authentication. However, Troll is Troll, and because they have one server that has to make them windows dominate. Get real, get a life microsoft shit...err shill. The sad thing is, I think you guys make a great desktop, I really do, and the fact that you are so hardcore going after Linux means you are actually threatened by it. It has the server market, almost every company (Microsoft included) uses a *nix based system to manage there main servers.(http://www.crn.com/news/applications-os/18814901/microsofts-freebsd-move-aimed-at-next-generation-of-developers.htm). Note that's 2001, and since that scandal, I bet they aren't any longer. It was running their hotmail servers, and I can say around 2003 their servers have had a hard time managing content (probably when they switched back) so people left hotmail in troves. Awesome switch to windows servers guys.
History is history, but I am an enterprise architect for a living, and I care about what I use. But I waste money on buying server X from microsoft every new release and test it. It has nothing on linux and we'd be paying almost an additional 2million a year for mips if we used it. So long point around, because companies use microsoft somewhere just once doesn't mean it's better than linux. It means it's more effective for what it does (like integrating with OTHER windows PCs). I should also note I love the most recent version of MS SQL Server, another reason for using Windows. For everything else, linux.
WTF Slashdot, why do I have to login 50 times to post?
"Yup. It shows why we need to make a distinction between GNU/Linux and Android/Linux." - by LinuxIsGarbage (1658307) on Saturday April 07, @01:22PM (#39607355)
See subject: Android = Linux, can't avoid that due to its core = Linux kernel, so they need "spin" & more FUD and "mincing words" with new categories etc., lol, as-per-their-usual!
It wouldve been cheaper and better to just send Bibles!
The God's Must be Crazy.
Koalas. They're telepathic. Plus, they control the weather. -Margaret
See subject above, & when's that supposed to happen? 12th of NEVER & the clock strikes 13 (and I don't mean military time here either, lol) for a date on it??
Penguin "prognostication" never comes true and u know it. Hell we ALL know it. History keeps showing us that on PC's & Servers combined where Windows RULES!
AND, when iOS runs on PC's & Servers? Get back 2 us, lol!
That Linux won't be adopted on the PC.
Altough, I disagree with that point because of the simple fact that MS won't last forever, but Linux may last for a looong time.
Rethinking email
That Linux won't be adopted on the PC.
Nahhh... it turned out that we were discussing maketdrone stuff. Feeding the troll, that's what it was.
Questions raise, answers kill. Raise questions to stay alive.
On PC's & Servers?? The 12th of NEVER & clocks strike 13 (& not military time)? LMAO!
I live in a tribal village in Peru, and the kids here have OLPC laptops. The trouble is bigger than teachers who have not been educated to make good use of the laptops (although that is an issue too). There isn't electricity here, much less internet (except my personal VSAT). While a computer loaded with educational resources is useful without an internet connection, it is a nice shiny green and white brick without power. For all of the hoopla about hand-crank or foot pedal chargers, I haven't seen one. When my solar panels are pulling in enough power, I'll charge one up for a kid or even let them on the internet, but my resources are limited in these areas too. So...it will be hard to REALLY evaluate the effectiveness of a machine like the OLPC until we have solved these basic infrastructure issues.
lick teh slime of my testicalz, quear
Microsoft will still be there, as it has been for decades. What is your point? The kids will grow up with changes; as we all did (on Microsoft's or anyone else's software). Change is a fact of life in the field of computing, get used to it. [very good!]
You fail to note that there are radically differing versions of *NIX desktops too, such as KDE, Gnome, XFCA, etc... They change over time as well. Plus the changes that occur in its attendant software as well (that aren't used 1/100th as much as Windows and its software).
Thus, Your very argument is defeated on its very basis, albeit[?], turned around on Linux, ala "reverse-psychology" and the numbers prove the rest for me in terms of usership/mindshare (as well as marketshare).
C- Needs work.
A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government. -edward abbey
There is a lot of software that can be compiled with the Wine library to run on Linux. Does that make Linux a Windows platform?
If your going to try to sound like two separate people, at least vary your style. Or are we to believe that a horde of uneducated eight year-olds have invaded /., all of whom are members of some strange Microsoft sponsored cult.
Further, if "either" of you want to be taken seriously, please stop ditching your primary school English lessons.
A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government. -edward abbey
"In general teachers did not make creative use of the technology" namely the one technology that's between their ears (in their heads). Or maybe it's something that can be attributed to teachers in general ? A creative teacher would be able to use an OLPC, a bulldozer, or a stick from a tree in creative ways to enhance the education process. A non-creative teacher is a non-teacher.
Give up Penguins: U've tried it & failed 4 decades since "the year of Linux" is never going to happen on PC's + Servers combined @ both home user & corporate environs levels. U FAILED.
FOAD, dork. Approx. 80% of the net runs on FLOSS. Android scares the crap out of Apple.
Suck it.
"Tongue tied and twisted, just an Earth bound misfit
This isn't English class: The topic's computing. Get a clue & get on topic! You also need your PhD in English, the one you don't have! You need it, & especially before you try play "english professor" with your mere opinions (because you obviously cannot combat facts from computing that were used).
Clue/New NEWS/NewsFlash: Ur offtopic - period. Troll tactics don't work vs. facts.
"lick teh slime of my testicalz, quear" - by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 07, @02:21PM (#39607763)
See my subject-line, & no thanks: NOT "interested" (I like women).
See here -> http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2772023&cid=39606887 what you post, is "peanuts" compared to what's in the url/link I just posted that the penguins tried to HIDE, lol, no less via an unjustifiable mod down vs. facts it contains.
So, You can *try* all the "CaPTaiN-PaRaNoiD" fud b.s. you want to, but the facts are in the url link above and SO STRONG, all the dorks & penguins here have is their typical "insta-moddown" because they cannot combat it. Face it, quoting Mr. Spock from StarTrek TOS to do it - "Sensors show the object's hull is SOLID NEUTRONIUM: A single StarShip CANNOT COMBAT IT!"... period. Facts are like that.
Facts in THIS link -> http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2772023&cid=39606887 as to how Windows does on Servers in the Fortune 100/500, top-notch educational institutions, & other areas of note in business then.
Funniest part is the "penguins" tried to "downmod" it instantly so less folks can see and reference it... funny that, eh? NOT! It's a typical "troll tactic", the effete "insta-moddown" vs. facts.
If Linux is "so great", how come it's in last place in terms of marketshare & user mindshare on PC's + Servers combined then???
Um, "users" are users? They don't want what's "better." They just want to "get stuff done," at their limited level of ability.
Please, just go out and play in the traffic. You'll be much more productive there. Trolls these days! Bring some facts with you next time.
BTW, ca. 80% of the web runs on FLOSS. ExxonMobil uses it, FFS!
"Tongue tied and twisted, just an Earth bound misfit
Suck this -> http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2772023&cid=39606887
LOL! Now, what was that about "suck it"?
Facts in it show how Windows does on Servers in the Fortune 100/500, top-notch educational institutions, & other areas of note in business then.
* Funniest part is the "penguins" tried to "downmod" the link above, & instantly, so less folks can see and reference it... lol!
Talk about a "dead giveaway" they cannot combat the facts it shows with proofs, eh?
(Funny that, eh? NOT! It's a typical "troll tactic", the effete "insta-moddown" vs. facts in that link above...).
Microsoft'll still be there as it's been 4 decades: Ur point's what? The kids'll grow w\ changes as we all did on MS or anyone's wares. Change is a fact of life in the field of computing, get used to it.
U fail to note that there are radically differing versions of *NIX desktops too, ala KDE vs. GNOME (& others like xfce & more and changes in them as well over time), plus the changes that occur on its attendant softwares that ride on it too (that aren't used 1/100th as much as Windows & its wares are).
Thus, Your very argument is defeated on its very basis, albeit, turned around on Linux, ala "reverse-psychology" and the numbers prove the rest for me in terms of usership/mindshare (as well as marketshare).
Waaaahh... I only use Microsoft products because i can't think for myself so i use what everyone else uses
Waaaahh.... i'm a useless, brain dead person that can't think that, hey, linux might just be the most revolutionary operating system ever... it's already everywhere (when microsoft has trouble even selling phones)
Waahhhhh.... if microsoft ceased to exist, i wouldn't be able to function in this world...
I'd rather hire a kid who uses linux and has thought about life for himself than some brain dead "i use microsoft products because all my friends do" kind of person.
shit, even a person who switched to a mac, not becuause the cool kids use it but because they got tired of all the viruses and crap, is a step ahead of you.
whine about how great windows is somewhere else... i'd rather talk to people who can think for themselves. thanks.
See subject above, & when's that supposed to happen?
It's been the "Year of Linux" for me since '93.
Are you just slow, or what?
"Tongue tied and twisted, just an Earth bound misfit
Hmmm? See here -> http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2772023&cid=39606887 and tell us WHY the TRUE TROLLS AROUND /. (the "Pro-*NIX" bunch) had to do an "instant moddown" vs. it instead of disproving facts it extolls with proofs?? No, we KNOW who the trolls are, and how they operate (bogus moddowns do NOT a point make, & especially vs. verifiable facts).
See here -> http://www.statowl.com/operating_system_market_share.php (or even other sites showing similar data/stats) - Windows rules the roost for PC's &/or Servers combined, hands-down, no questions asked... period.
Microsoft'll still be there as it's been 4 decades: Ur point's what? The kids'll grow w\ changes as we all did on MS or anyone's wares. Change is a fact of life in the field of computing, get used to it.
U fail to note that there are radically differing versions of *NIX desktops too, ala KDE vs. GNOME (& others like xfce & more and changes in them as well over time), plus the changes that occur on its attendant softwares that ride on it too (that aren't used 1/100th as much as Windows & its wares are).
Thus, Your very argument is defeated on its very basis, albeit, turned around on Linux, ala "reverse-psychology" and the numbers prove the rest for me in terms of usership/mindshare (as well as marketshare).
Wait, what?
The argument was basically "Microsoft software will have a different interface by the time these kids leave school, so the important thing is teaching the kids to use computers, not about teaching them about using a particular flavour of computers."
So whose argument has been defeated? I'd say it's yours. We don't need to teach kids Microsoft software, just software. I started learning word processing on BBC Masters and Acorn Archimedeses, and I'm better with Microsoft Word than many of my colleagues who've only ever used Microsoft Word...
Got them moderator blues I blieve I walk out the do', With these mod-points I been gettin', I 'most never post no mo'
See subject-line, & your own words "adjusted" next:
Waaaahh... I only use Linux because i want to be 'different' like some pimple faced rebellious kid, lol!
Waaaahh.... i'm a useless, brain dead PENGUIN that can't think that, hey, linux might be wasting my time on an operating system that will never be at the top most used spot in PC + Server computing combined ever...
Windows IS already everywhere (when microsoft has trouble even selling phones) see link below (one penguins here tried to hide no less via effete moddowns but no justified reasons why vs. facts it shows on Server usage for Window) and Linux IS GETTING DESTROYED DAILY on ANDROID smartphones in security, despite all the /. years of "Linux = Secure" bullshit fud which daily gets shown as what it really is, FUD, by security exploits occurring on ANDROID (yes, a Linux) nearly daily.
Waahhhhh.... if Linux ceased to exist, i would easily able to function in this world... just like all these Fortune 100/500 companies do, as well as other notable business concerns, plus top-notch academic instatutions, state agencies, & more, here:
http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2772023&cid=39606887
Which got an "insta-downmod" which is only "penguin trolls", lol, using their "last resort of defeated trolls vs. facts" tactic... lol, clearly!
I'd rather hire a kid who uses windows and has thought about life for himself than some brain dead penguin who wasted years on an OS that is NOT as widely utilized as is Windows (see link) in businesses, as well as from the home end users desktop, right up thru departmental servers & into "enterprise class" ranges in business servers also.
"i use linux products because all my friends do" kind of person. A pimple faced wannabe different teenager.
Shit, even a person who switched to a mac, not becuause the cool kids use it but because they got tired of all the viruses and crap, is a step ahead of you because nobody uses Linux, and thus, no malware makers target it - not enough users to target vs. the ROI it would have @ what? 1.2% marketshare?
Funniest part is, once Linux DOES get a majority share of any computing platform, as it has on smartphones due to ZERO COST for the OS (only reason = cost lower, not quality better) IT IS BEING "TORN UP DAILY" by security exploits, proving my point that malware makers on ANY computing platform target the most used OS there... and Linux (yes, Android IS A LINUX) is being destroyed there in terms of exploits.
Whine about how great linux is somewhere else... i'd rather talk to people who can think for themselves. thanks because vs. facts you post? I am a penguin that just lost his behind.
Of what u quoted from he. He made his point here -> "U fail to note that there are radically differing versions of *NIX desktops too, ala KDE vs. GNOME (& others like xfce & more and changes in them as well over time), plus the changes that occur on its attendant softwares that ride on it too (that aren't used 1/100th as much as Windows & its wares are)." vs. what was posted before it which tried to make points on MS changing interfaces on their desktop but SO DOES LINUX!
There is a lot of software that can be compiled with the Wine library to run on Linux. Does that make Linux a Windows platform?
No, but Linux didn't use Windows 2000 as a codebase, either. The Xbox OS did, and clearly they didn't strip it down to the bare minimum that would run on the Xbox because they were able to port to 360 which is using PowerPC, which is a classic target for Windows including Windows 2000. It's Windows.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
I was born in 1986, and at that time personal computers were on the rise. Yes, personal computers existed long before that, but back then many people still did not have them. At the time computers were more expensive and not as interesting to intellectually challenged people. It wasn't for several years that every member of society absolutely had to have a computer and an e-mail address. I know people who held out for a decade after it became ubiquitous.
Ever since I was in kindergarten, the prevailing [ignorant] viewpoint in society was that computers just magically made people smarter and improved your child's education a billion percent. Every school that I attended had to have computers, and they always bragged about how many computers they had. Idiots in the administration talked about how technology was revolutionizing education and how the students were being prepared for the future by being taught computer skills. By the time I was in high school, they made sure that every single classroom had at least one computer in them, sometimes two or three or five. Nothing relevant about computers was actually taught.
Ultimately, it was pointless. We didn't use the computers in effective or creative ways; both teachers and students ignored the computers and studied our textbooks. All we used the computers for was to browse the web in our free time and play Counterstrike. Some kids utilized the school's network infrastructure to upload porn and warez. I went to college with a bunch of computer illiterate people who grew up with computers, and now I work with a bunch of computer illiterate people. My mom went adult education classes to become "computer literate," and they taught her that computer expertise meant knowing how to use Google search and Microsoft Office.
As someone who is very into computer technology and software, it has been a hobby that I pursued since a young age, and it ended up becoming my trade. I think I'm qualified to speak a little bit about computing technology, and I've said this many times in the past: computers don't improve education. They just don't. The money that schools waste on computer equipment could be put to use in so many much better ways. Throwing computers at education is just a mutated form of our cultural tendency to throw money at problems--it's stupid and doesn't work.
Can computers be used in education? Sure, they can, but if and only if it makes sense. Right now in my studies I have to use a computer constantly to look up reference material--it's a huge time saver and makes my field of study dramatically easier than it once was. The reason why computing helps is because the computer is a tool that provides a function necessary for the completion of my work. It's not because I learn better with computers than without them, or that computers solve all of my problems in school; rather, sometimes you have a particular need for them, and in many cases you don't.
I support OLPC because it connects people to the Internet who weren't connected before, which basically gives them access to limitless reading material should they choose to utilize it. 99% of people do not take advantage of the knowledge that can be read on the Internet. That's fine. If even a small group of intelligent children can find a way to benefit from having access to a computer, then those people might learn something that they can use to improve their own lives and the lives of people around them.
Penguin trolls stoop 2 "new LOWS" trying 2 hide verifiable facts they can't disprove.
As common and usual, people start to use user content news outlets for policying - no surprise there. Apple gloating, Apple bashing, GNOME bashing (that's old as GNOME is - first GNOME was itself a joke, then GNOME 3 came and suddenly everyone admited they love their panels), OLPC bashing (I haven't read any objective article on that project here, never), Microsoft bashing thanks God is gone mostly...
The best articles and comments are about neitral subjects really rest of it is just heated nothing. As this article - sensacionalist title, first paragraph, but futher Economist admits that laptops alone won't solve problem - well, duh, it was known like 5 years ago after first failures of this project. However, comments turns out regular bashing and calling it like pushing Linux to the masses, or done by people who doesn't understand what they do.
Problem is that old school educators are stonewalling any efforts of "self education", because they afraid to loose their jobs. And unfortunately, they don't care about children. And no, it's happening all over the world. Computers can be and should be used to educate children - it is simply more effective - if done right. And to do it right is quite simple. But getting there and letting old system go is more of adult's biggest psychological challenge in this project ever.
user@ubuntubox:~$ stfu This server is going down for shutdown NOW!
Sometimes a community can not really hold a discussion. Both posts were useless, and should be correctly marked as flamebait (as this one should be correctly marked as offtopic). I'd say people simply choosed the wrong mark, but the line between troll and flaimebait is fuzzy.
The fact is that Linux is used on plenty of servers out there, as is Windows. With robust application level software, both can work reasonably well (there is a small difference on performance, but it can be compensated by hardware). There is some difference on availability and price of robust application level software for them, as there is also some difference on support on both short term and long term, but both can run applications well enough to be used.
Now, the list the AC posted there (is that you?) is a weak argument supporting the dominance of Linux, while the list he replied to doesn't bring much data in any direction. Just remember that running one OS doesn't stop an entity from running another one. If Windows had a share of servers similar of Linux, and both were independent, 75% of the listed entities would use Windows.
Rethinking email
my point is that just because Microsoft Windows is on a monopoly share of desktop computers it does not mean my TV should be run on it, the speak-n-spell run on it, my phone should run on it, and it does not mean that an educational tool which is shaped like a laptop should be run on it. The poor logic you use would mean that the iPhone is useless because it's not Windows and Android is useless because it's not Windows.
and I'm not going to waste my time explaining how Microsoft got that position in the market nor why a very computer ignorant public perpetuates there position.
It sounds to me like someone is a bit defensive about the world of Microsoft they live in.
LoB
"Anyone who stands out in the middle of a road looks like roadkill to me." --Linus
wow, linking to a post in a thread fro 2007? FAIL and LAME!
http://lwn.net/Articles/411064/
PS, one completely bull shit reference is enough to not bother looking into the others.
LoB
"Anyone who stands out in the middle of a road looks like roadkill to me." --Linus
Since when do "local teachers" respect their children... they have a important position on the local society... why change the status quo...
If a teacher have been using pen, paper and textbooks as the primary means for input and output of information you can't expect them to be proficient at teaching using electronic means for input and output. A simple seminar or continuing education program is simply not enough to bring the technological skills of a teacher that has been teaching with pen and paper for who knows how many years up to par. Rigorous training and a willingness for change from the teacher are also required. The idea is noble but it couldn't even be implemented in the US in a large scale.
It's all about finding better ways
Can I say "I told you so" to all the folks who urged me to donate to the project some years ago?
Moddown 4 asking a question? See how /. moderation works??
I'm no expert in the history of OLPC, but everything I read about them seemed to indicate that they were all about giving these devices to needy children. I never saw anything written about how, exactly, these devices were supposed to make these childrens' lives better, once they got them. It just seemed to be assumed that, once kids had these computers, their school experience would somehow change for the better.
It would seem to me that a lot more time and money was spent getting these devices in the hands of needy kids than was spent on plans to use them to actually achieve positive change.
Actually, speaking as a computer science teacher in a very large public school system, you can thank M$ for making the 'education' establishment computer illiterate. I'm FORBIDDEN to teach linux to staff or students, since this would upset the (very) lucrative contracts with Microshaft for 'support' (ROTFL). Yep, just call for (very expensive, take the tax-payers to the cleaners, etc.) 'support' when something goes wrong with your IE on the computer or you can't open that document in M$ Word...
An alien drops a monolith down amongst the people and is angry the people don't use it correctly. Sounds about right.
I followed OLPC, got excited, bought a "Get one, give one." and watched as the project lurched and banged off walls. No one - and everyone - is to blame for OLPC's failures. The reason has nothing to do with the concept, the contributors, Microsoft or any other 'competitors'. It has everything to do with the fact that the ecosystem in the field is not there. Why send something 1/2 way 'round the planet when there is little or no infrastruture in place to distribute, support, repair and update these devices. It's like sending an F35 to Sierra Leone with no ground crew, support or fuel. Sure it will land - but it will be as useful as a brick after that.
*** Don't be dull.***
I just got back from a trip to Peru where I met with the head of technology for the Ministry of Ed.
The biggest problem with the OLPC project was the fly-by dropping of the computers without appropriate professional development for the teachers. The OLPCs were simply delivered without regard for the training needs of the teachers in either content or pedagogy. Computer-based teaching requires different instructional approaches. It is not a silver bullet unto itself. This was particularly problematic in the schools in the jungle, where the modernization is, in theory, needed most.
heidi
It was all about an idiot called NegroPonte who had one-sided, skewed, not-knowing-more-than-his-backyard deciding what was the best way to educate children he has never had any practical experience with, and pumping millions of dollars in that stupid project.
Oh, he got to make one self-important pompous statement after another for a while too.
If he had been a CEO in real world, he would have been fired long ago.
How do you weigh the advantage of knowing a 10 year old windows interface compared to:
1. Having a recent updated Linux distro for the life of the laptop
2. Having access to free apps like office, graphic arts, CAD, programming, networking servers, databases, etc, etc, etc,
3. Having a platform that exposes how things work to the curious mind (source code, as well as the general way programs are done all give more "behind the scenes" info)
It really is a question of what you get in return for that investment. Learning to use a broad set of tools and adjusting to a slightly different interface (which you will probably need to do anyway) or familiarizing yourself with an interface and specific implementation. For me, I'd choose the broad base. you may chose the narrow path. The optimum would likely depend more on the current age of the student (narrow giving a quicker return for older students that are closer to entering the workforce).
I catch Rasperin in an utter line of bullshit on HILTON hotels & Windows usage there by posting netcraft's current information as proof of it, and I got modded down?
* That's bullshit - to be blunt about it!
(Nobody on this planet @ this point can tell me that /. moderation is fair OR honest after that!)
He points out U people do bogus downmods & he gets downmodded? Prove his point some more why don't you, dolts??
See how /. moderation works everyone? It's a tool for defeated trolls to "hide" their screwups (or, try to, failing as usual since I saw it).
See subject & see how /. moderation works everyone?? U can be right as rain as the poster is I replied to, and all it takes is one embarrassed troll to downmod it to hide his being set straight (and shown incorrect) to try to "hide it", in vain (I saw it, and others will also).
See - I am not that big a fool, and unlike others here I caught in b.s. such as this on EXXON-MOBIL -> http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2772023&cid=39608239
AND HILTON HOTELS ALSO -> http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2772023&cid=39607863 by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 07, @05:43PM (#39608999)
See how /. moderation works everyone? Disprove naysayers w/ facts that are easily verifiable & you get modded down unjustifiably (which is complete bullshit) by the troll you disproved w/ facts (which is them trying to "hide it"/bury it, bogusly). Pitiful.
Why was the post I replied to downmodded? It has correct facts.
See subject. Specific quote evidences were used that disprove naysayers successfully. Why the downmod?
And he gets downmodded? See how /. moderation works everyone?? It's the 1 question that Penguins always run from too, funny that!
See subject & how /. "moderation" works everyone?? Parent post I replied to shows it all, no denying it. Seems once trolls around here defeat themselves by their own errors pointed out then use downmods to attempt to "hide" their mistakes from others seeing them by "downmodding" unjustifiably. It shows how dirty things are on this forums imo.
Easy: Choose paths w/ the best possible outcome future (mainly financially to survive, of course - that's "job #1" after all) + the most "surface area" converage (non-niche only in other words).
E.G.-> I did when it was in the "Novell-DOS vs.Windows NT-based OS" choice path around 1994 when it was "coming to a head" & I had to decide where to concentrate/focus, and I took the latter (glad I did too - look @ the results of that, after all).
Hey ease up. I have been in IT for 25 years as a sys op and programmer and have worked on everything from Mainframes, a multitude of flavours of *nix and windows and be buggered if I can get most of the overhead projectors we have in the meeting rooms to work either.
Your original erroneous effort requoted (after your "pot calling a kettle black" in the link below, you moron):
If your going to try to sound like two separate people, at least vary your style. Or are we to believe...
Correct version:
If you're going to try to sound like two separate people, at least vary your style, or are we to believe...
See idiot? Two can play that game!
Meanwhile, after this link where you go off topic and tried to play "english professor" -> http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2772023&cid=39607767
You showed you suck at writing here now!
SO PRACTICE WHAT YOU PREACH, moron.
Or is a conjunction. Your second "attempt at a sentence" isn't proper English writing, and yes, a grammatical error.
Everyone is commenting on a summary of a summary. The original study is much more interesting: http://idbdocs.iadb.org/wsdocs/getdocument.aspx?docnum=36706954. Please check it out -- the summaries leave out some really interesting information.
For example, the study notes that "On the positive side, the results indicate some benefits on cognitive skills". So in fact there was some measurable benefit to the student having the computers. Also they note that students learned basic computer skills -- something presumably they would not be able to do without a computer.
What is interesting is that only 40% of the students were allowed to take the computer home. And it also looks like they mostly don't have access to the internet. Both of those would have to be fixed before I feel like we have done a real test of this program.
http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2772023&cid=39607863
http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2772023&cid=39609055
It's NOT 2007 like u think it is -> http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2772023&cid=39609055
It's not 2007 currently, Locutus -> http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2772023&cid=39609055 and probably dozens on /. can give you instructions on how that's done (because U NEED IT, lol!).
You by way of comparison, think it's 2007 still -> http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2772023&cid=39609055
You on the other hand? Cannot -> http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2772023&cid=39609055
http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2772023&cid=39609055
BIG FAIL -> http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2772023&cid=39609055 get back to us when you learn how to use a calendar... lol!
Linux = "bottom of the barrel" in marketshare after all that time too on PC's & Servers combined.
Serves 'em right for thinking that OLPC can increase the I.Q. of the average teacher.... and since 99% of people use their computers for web browsing, email, and media downloading and viewing, i bet that without internet these things would simply become be fancy paperweights after the novelty wore off.. On the other hand, if Peru ever gets improved access to the 'net, at least these kids will already know how to use these things.. so it is waay to early to write off the results as 'disappointing'...
On what u say @ position 2:50 on the YouTube control here -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mTA58ahuzj0 (hope you enjoy American football too, because the tune's in accompaniment to one of the greatest running backs there ever was imo, "doing his thing") - That's MY reply back @ you, in regards to what you said to myself, lol...
That olpcnews link was very informative. And your comments are exactly to the point.
A while ago I saved a comment (I think from slashdot, I'm too lazy to google for it) that summarizes the situation:
OLPC is a rich man's idea of what poor men need. It's like donating an expresso machine to a homeless shelter.
U weren't downmodded & poster who points ur bs was -> http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2772023&cid=39608239
Question: How many sock puppet alternate accounts do you use on slashdot tqk?
(You know, because we certainly do: The kinds of alternate registered user accounts used to mod yourself up with, and, to downmod others who point out your lies to hide those times they catch you do, as is shown in the link above, by your downmodding them using different registered accounts that you use to do that? It's rather obvious you do from that link above).
[quote] "Well to start with, I worked for Hilton Corp in Memphis, TN (headquarters) and we used exclusively Solaris servers. There isn't one Windows Server, going as far as OpenLDAP for authentication and not windows." - by Rasperin (1034758) on Saturday April 07, @01:50PM (#39607549) What was that u said? See subject line, & here -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=hilton.com [netcraft.com] [/quote] I counter with: http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=hilton.co.uk (which is the project I worked on, yes out of Memphis headquarters), hilton.com is controlled and created by a 3rd party, those servers do not belong to Hilton. However, that is a weak response, and I give that it looks like they (the third party) use Windows server (which doesn't meet their SLA and someone needs to reach out to them about this...)
/. moderation is fair OR honest after that!)
[/quote]
I can, you are trolling and you have an attitude. My response to you (while the first part about hilton.com was wrong), I kept a level head and my point was clear that I believe that people use whatever tool is best when needed.
Your response still seems like a troll looking to start an argument, and a shill try to show that everyone uses windows for their servers when most are domain based systems. [quote] [quote] "Now for most of these I read "Managing X customers using Active Directory" And you are right, since most companies use Microsoft for personal computers, most use Active Directory to manage authentication." - by Rasperin (1034758) on Saturday April 07, @01:50PM (#39607549) [/quote] I am never wrong. [/quote] Sure, you're right, they do have Windows servers. However you missed my point, they are using windows PC's and so they want to use a Windows domain manager. OMG that means they are a windows shop... no it doesn't, it means they are using the right solution for the problem. Keep in mind, Windows used a brilliant strategy by giving away windows to schools so most places won't touch linux for personal pc's. Novell used to be the solution when AD sucked, but AD no longer sucks.
[quote] I catch Rasperin in an utter line of bullshit on HILTON hotels & Windows usage there by posting netcraft's current information as proof of it, and I got modded down? * That's bullshit - to be blunt about it! (Nobody on this planet @ this point can tell me that
WTF Slashdot, why do I have to login 50 times to post?
"I counter with: http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=hilton.co.uk" - by Rasperin (1034758) on Monday April 09, @12:27PM (#39619841)
I'll counter where you said you worked on this (hilton hq in Virgina):
"Well to start with, I worked for Hilton Corp in Memphis, TN (headquarters)" - by Rasperin (1034758) on Saturday April 07, @01:50PM (#39607549) FROM -> http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2772023&cid=39607549
Well, which is it? In the UK, or Tennessee USA?? Seems you have a "small problem" now... lol!
(What else can I infer now that you're "flipping the script"/changing stories now? After all - THOSE ARE YOUR OWN WORDS REQUOTED!)
---
"Your response still seems like a troll looking to start an argument, and a shill try to show that everyone uses windows for their servers when most are domain based systems." - by Rasperin (1034758) on Monday April 09, @12:27PM (#39619841)
Show us where I EXPLICITLY STATED "everyone uses Window", ok? That's for starters...
Fact - Evidently, U erroneously INFERRED that (because you're the 1 with a chip on his shoulder)...
---
"hilton.com is controlled and created by a 3rd party, those servers do not belong to Hilton." - by Rasperin (1034758) on Monday April 09, @12:27PM (#39619841)
Still Hilton's domain, right? So they DO USE WINDOWS... period!
---
"However, that is a weak response, and I give that it looks like they (the third party) use Windows server" - by Rasperin (1034758) on Monday April 09, @12:27PM (#39619841)
Not as weak as you "suddenly changing" where it was you worked ALLEGEDLY for Hilton...
---
"However you missed my point, they are using windows PC's and so they want to use a Windows domain manager. OMG that means they are a windows shop... no it doesn't," - by Rasperin (1034758) on Monday April 09, @12:27PM (#39619841)
It also doesn't mean they do not either... & you admit it is in place there too now!
---
"it means they are using the right solution for the problem." - by Rasperin (1034758) on Monday April 09, @12:27PM (#39619841)
Oh, here I agree...
---
"Keep in mind, Windows used a brilliant strategy by giving away windows to schools so most places won't touch linux for personal pc's." - by Rasperin (1034758) on Monday April 09, @12:27PM (#39619841)
Linux doesn't do that? Please... I've seen it TOO MANY TIMES, & what exactly is "zero purchase price" vs. competing against a paid for OS?
---
"Novell used to be the solution when AD sucked, but AD no longer sucks." - by Rasperin (1034758) on Monday April 09, @12:27PM (#39619841)
I know, I was a HUGE fan of "NDS"...
---
"you are trolling and you have an attitude." - by Rasperin (1034758) on Monday April 09, @12:27PM (#39619841)
Because I "adjusted YOUR attitude" easily & caught you changing stories above now? Please... lol!
* Unlike yourself & other trolls here - I don't tell 1/2 truths, OR change my story as you did (see above) in attempt to "troll" though, you do, see above...
APK
P.S.=> "NEXT"... lol!
... apkb
HILTON HOTELS: Manages 1.4 Billion records a day for customers in 1000's of their hotels worldwide - for 370,000 rooms & catering services forecasts (switching from 6 *NIX systems to 1 Windows Server 2003 + SQLServer 2005 clustered failover system using a data warehouse with 7 million rows & 99.998% uptime).
* I'll be waiting...
APK
P.S.=> Ahem: My source? That came straight from Microsoft via their "GET THE FACTS" program, via EWeek magazine inserts on that much they used to do!
So I'd like your feedback on that as well now!
Plus, in addition to my other reply to you where you "suddenly work on" a diff. location than what you initially posted (for Hilton) -> http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2772023&cid=39621921
(You said that you worked in Tennessee there & in your first reply to me - I quoted it there comparing your "new story" you stated there too & I quoted to compare it!)
Now you post a .uk TLD instead?
Come on!
Face it/Accept it - Hilton uses Windows and I proved that much from the domain hilton.com - which hilton owns, not the hilton.co.uk you posted rather suddenly & "flipped the script" on where it was you worked for them allegedly) ... apk
http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2772023&cid=39621993
and
More importantly, this one:
http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2772023&cid=39621921
(Where you are shown "changing stories" on where you ALLEGEDLY worked for Hilton too):
APK
P.S.=> Reply there to each, I just MUST hear the "spin" you're going to TRY put on those... lol! apk
U R FULL OF IT once more:
"I kept a level head " - by Rasperin (1034758) on Monday April 09, @12:27PM (#39619841)
BULLSHIT: What is calling me a SHIT and then a SHILL too, here in your initial reply to me:
Get real, get a life microsoft shit...err shill." - by Rasperin (1034758) on Saturday April 07, @01:50PM (#39607549)
Listen you ARROGANT little fuck:
Think you're some 'Big Man On Campus/BMOC", with your SELF-ALLEGED & UNPROVEN "System Architect" title that personally I think is bullshit to be blunt about it!
In fact? Well - know what losers like you are to guys like me, that create the tools you SIMPLY USE, you mere user with a better password? Shit.
(I've been coding longer than you've BEEN ALIVE I wager & done WELL @ it, to international acclaim in fact a dozen times or more, & watched idiots like you & network admins/engineers acting like "they know something" when the MOST THEY DO, is plugin wires after reading manuals & USING SOFTWARE PROGRAMMERS LIKE MYSELF BUILD FOR THEM, and you, TO USE!)
* See subject-line, & this tidbit from William himself:
"And thus I clothe my naked villany With odd old ends stol'n out of holy writ, And seem a saint, when most I play the devil."
APK
P.S.=> I love it when trolls like yourself that change their story, and then try to 'weasel out of it' too afterwards but get caught in it ( as I did to you on several grounds now ) try to "act the saint"... apk
U avoid the question: Does HILTON.COM own the hilton.com domain, & does Hilton use Windows on it!
YES or NO??
After all, you said this:
"when most are domain based systems... Sure, you're right, they do have Windows servers." - by Rasperin (1034758) on Monday April 09, @12:27PM (#39619841)
That's 1 & due to your use of the word DOMAIN!
Thus, I want the above question answered IN FULL from you! You avoid it, you further prove my point.
---
"Troll is Troll, and because they have one server that has to make them windows dominate" - by Rasperin (1034758) on Saturday April 07, @01:50PM (#39607549)
Calling me NAMES again (ontop of Shill & shit when you said you "kept a level head"? Bullshit)... but, ok:
Funny, HILTON.COM's already PROVEN to run on Windows (gosh that's another Windows machine @ hilton) -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=hilton.com
---
"Your response still seems like a troll looking to start an argument, and a shill try to show that everyone uses windows for their servers when most are domain based systems." - by Rasperin (1034758) on Monday April 09, @12:27PM (#39619841)
Calling me names YET AGAIN, eh? Ok:
Again (2nd time I ask this, you avoided it earlier):
Show us where I EXPLICITLY STATED "everyone uses Window", ok?
* You f'ing bullshit artist... my turn on name tossing now, troll. You started it, this vindicates me easily.
---
"hilton.com is controlled and created by a 3rd party, those servers do not belong to Hilton." - by Rasperin (1034758) on Monday April 09, @12:27PM (#39619841)
AGAIN - Still Hilton's domain, they OWN it, right? YES or NO?? - that's yet ANOTHER Windows system for Hilton.
---
"It has nothing on linux" - by Rasperin (1034758) on Saturday April 07, @01:50PM (#39607549)
Oh, really? Counter THIS then:
HILTON HOTELS: Manages 1.4 Billion records a day for customers in 1000's of their hotels worldwide - for 370,000 rooms & catering services forecasts (switching from 6 *NIX systems to 1 Windows Server 2003 + SQLServer 2005 clustered failover system using a data warehouse with 7 million rows & 99.998% uptime).
* I'll be waiting...
APK
P.S.=> Ahem: My source? That came straight from Microsoft via their "GET THE FACTS" program, via EWeek magazine inserts on that much they used to do... apk
QUESTION #1 of 2 - Does HILTON.COM own the hilton.com domain, & does Hilton use Windows on it?!
Answer YES or NO! After all, you said this:
"when most are domain based systems... Sure, you're right, they do have Windows servers." - by Rasperin (1034758) on Monday April 09, @12:27PM (#39619841)
That's 1 & due to your use of the word DOMAIN!
Thus, I want the above question answered IN FULL from you! You avoid it, you further prove my point.
---
"Troll is Troll, and because they have one server that has to make them windows dominate" - by Rasperin (1034758) on Saturday April 07, @01:50PM (#39607549)
Calling me NAMES again (ontop of Shill & shit when you said you "kept a level head"? Bullshit)... but, ok:
Funny, HILTON.COM's already PROVEN to run on Windows (gosh that's another Windows machine @ hilton) -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=hilton.com
---
"Your response still seems like a troll looking to start an argument, and a shill try to show that everyone uses windows for their servers when most are domain based systems." - by Rasperin (1034758) on Monday April 09, @12:27PM (#39619841)
Calling me names YET AGAIN, eh? Ok:
Again (2nd time I ask this, you avoided it earlier):
QUESTION #2 of 2 - Show us where I EXPLICITLY STATED "everyone uses Window", ok?
* You f'ing bullshit artist... my turn on name tossing now, troll. You started it, this vindicates me easily.
---
"hilton.com is controlled and created by a 3rd party, those servers do not belong to Hilton." - by Rasperin (1034758) on Monday April 09, @12:27PM (#39619841)
AGAIN - Still Hilton's domain, they OWN it, right? YES or NO?? - that's yet ANOTHER Windows system for Hilton.
---
"It has nothing on linux" - by Rasperin (1034758) on Saturday April 07, @01:50PM (#39607549)
Oh, really? Counter THIS then:
HILTON HOTELS: Manages 1.4 Billion records a day for customers in 1000's of their hotels worldwide - for 370,000 rooms & catering services forecasts (switching from 6 *NIX systems to 1 Windows Server 2003 + SQLServer 2005 clustered failover system using a data warehouse with 7 million rows & 99.998% uptime).
* I'll be waiting...
(Ahem: My source? That came straight from Microsoft via their "GET THE FACTS" program, via EWeek magazine inserts on that much they used to do... )
APK
P.S.=> Per my subject line above & this quote from you:
"Do another work up on that for schools in the US please. I'd like to see that." by Rasperin (1034758) on Monday April 09, @04:41PM (#39622815)
You wanted information on schools that use Windows? Ok, easily (top-notch schools in fact by the score) - they won't even ALL FIT, but here goes:
---
90++ TOP RANKED UNIVERSITIES USING Windows (from -> http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities/ )
---
Baylor University: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.baylor.edu
Texas Tech University: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.ttu.edu
Temple University: Runs their domain on Windows -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.temple.edu
Drexel University: Runs their domain on Windows ->
U bullshitting LIAR -> http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2772023&cid=39623563
APK
P.S.=> Now, Rasperin's trying to "play saint" up there, but is CAUGHT AGAIN, in utter outright bullshit by his own lying words... unbelieveable! apk
Reading comprehension on my response about schools should have been obvious. I meant schools that use Linux for the personal computers. See the reply to the other post. Done.
WTF Slashdot, why do I have to login 50 times to post?
So, what did you end up doing? "EATING UR WORDS" & ADMITTING YOU WERE WRONG, first of all:
"Accepted that I was wrong that Hilton.com IS using Windows." by Rasperin (1034758) on Monday April 09, @06:25PM (#39624293)
Oh, it gets BETTER!
Especially in you calling me a "shit" and a 'shill' and a 'troll' after you said "you kept a level head"?
No, that's Bullshit... in fact, I am going to make it a personal thing to ANNIHILATE you here network boy, publicly!
(You're simply just a USER with a better password that only uses tools that guys like myself create FOR HIM TO USE, nothing more, you damned lying worm!))
---
"Yeah, because I want to trust my Microsoft "Get the facts" program. I remember them putting that out years ago, I remember them making a bunch of false claims" - by Rasperin (1034758) on Monday April 09, @06:25PM (#39624293)
No, no running away - IS THIS FALSE BELOW? YES or NO:
HILTON HOTELS: Manages 1.4 Billion records a day for customers in 1000's of their hotels worldwide - for 370,000 rooms & catering services forecasts (switching from 6 *NIX systems to 1 Windows Server 2003 + SQLServer 2005 clustered failover system using a data warehouse with 7 million rows & 99.998% uptime).
Quit running away from a simple question! After all - you claim to have worked AND STILL WORK FOR hilton corp., so I am certain you can answer that simple question above!
(Hell - You even already admitted you love SQLServer, clue enough right there in fact)... answer it.
ANSWER IT - quit 'running from it'!
(I know WHY you do - you do NOT like saying "I was wrong" but you have already, see below... lol!)
You don't answer, because it's yet another large scale system running Windows for HILTON corp. when you said they did not use Windows that way!
(& eventually YOU already admitted that HILTON corp OWNS the hilton.com domain finally after this only though -> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=hilton.com )
---
"Your response still seems like a troll looking to start an argument, and a shill try to show that everyone uses windows for their servers when most are domain based systems." - by Rasperin (1034758) on Monday April 09, @12:27PM (#39619841)
Again - SHOW WHERE I EXPLICITLY STATED "EVERYONE RUNS WINDOWS" - do that, troll.
You'll be WRONG & HAVE TO ADMIT IT a 2nd time... if not more as this goes along.
Plus - Calling me names YET AGAIN, eh? Ok, here's another evidence of that too (vs. your bullshit saying you were level headed):
What is calling me a SHIT and then a SHILL too, here in your initial reply to me:
"Get real, get a life microsoft shit...err shill"." - by Rasperin (1034758) on Saturday April 07, @01:50PM (#39607549)
* You f'ing bullshit artist... my turn on name tossing now, troll. You started it, this vindicates me easily.
---
"You seemed to drop your argument about me being a liar, where'd that go" - by Rasperin (1034758) on Saturday April 07, @01:50PM (#39607549)
Never stopped, & OH, really?
Was I the one that admitted wrongdoing saying I WAS RIGHT as you did here?
I said you were right here, and I made a mistake." - by Rasperin (1034758) on Monday April 09, @04:41PM (#39622815)
You've YET to get that outta me... because I have YET TO MAKE A MISTAKE vs. yourself... period.
---
"you are stating 367 institutions Using Windows OVER Linux when they are using one for domain management." - by Rasperin (1034758) on Saturday April 07, @01:50PM (#39607549)
No, I merely showed valid data from respected
"Do another work up on that for schools in the US please. I'd like to see that." by Rasperin (1034758) on Monday April 09, @04:41PM (#39622815)
I answered u (u already admitted you're wrong too on other points) on schools that use Windows... BY THE TRUCKLOAD! Here (post before this one) -> http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2772023&cid=39623897
I don't CARE what schools use Linux (many do though - however: I never said they did not, did I? NO!).
However - YOU SAID THIS IN ERROR ALSO because you run from it:
"Your response still seems like a troll looking to start an argument, and a shill try to show that everyone uses windows for their servers when most are domain based systems." - by Rasperin (1034758) on Monday April 09, @12:27PM (#39619841)
Again (3rd or 4th time I've asked YOU this, you avoided it earlier):
Show us where I EXPLICITLY STATED "everyone uses Window", ok?
---
"hilton.com is controlled and created by a 3rd party, those servers do not belong to Hilton." - by Rasperin (1034758) on Monday April 09, @12:27PM (#39619841)
AGAIN - you AVOID THE QUESTION ASKED:
Still Hilton Corp.'s domain, they OWN it, right? YES or NO??.
We know - that's yet ANOTHER Windows system for Hilton. Next below's another (answer it):
---
"It has nothing on linux" - by Rasperin (1034758) on Saturday April 07, @01:50PM (#39607549)
Oh, really? Counter THIS then:
HILTON HOTELS: Manages 1.4 Billion records a day for customers in 1000's of their hotels worldwide - for 370,000 rooms & catering services forecasts (switching from 6 *NIX systems to 1 Windows Server 2003 + SQLServer 2005 clustered failover system using a data warehouse with 7 million rows & 99.998% uptime).
* I'll be waiting... answer it, TRUE/YES or FALSE/NO... simple!
APK
P.S.=> You picked the WRONG GUY to call names pal... now I am going to further humiliate you for it!
After all, you already said this:
"Accepted that I was wrong that Hilton.com IS using Windows." - by Rasperin (1034758) on Monday April 09, @06:25PM (#39624293)
Get ready to say it some more... because YOU NEED A LESSON IN MANNERS, and class (and computing) & I am JUST THE GUY TO "SCHOOL YOU" on them, especially for calling me names as you have and trying to play like you didn't:
"I kept a level head " - by Rasperin (1034758) on Monday April 09, @12:27PM (#39619841)
Oh, really? What are those names YOU TOSSED MY WAY ABOVE, like shit, shill, troll etc./et al, starting that up?? Hmmm???
Do you like Shakespeare, network boy?
I hope so, because THIS, IS YOU, to a tee:
"And thus I clothe my naked villany With odd old ends stol'n out of holy writ, And seem a saint, when most I play the devil."
Thus, it is going to be a PLEASURE destroying you publicly, you name tossing, story changing little troll...
... apk/b
"Accepted that I was wrong that Hilton.com IS using Windows." - by Rasperin (1034758) on Monday April 09, @06:25PM (#39624293)
Did U state that? Yes U DID: Who's cryin' now, BOY? U came in here, thinking ur able to call others names like "shit", "shill", "troll" & more, and yet U end up "eating ur words" didn't you, BOY?? Yes, u did.
Post parent to this & this one too -> http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2772023&cid=39609055 Please. It's not working. We see them, LoB. All the moddowns in the world don't hide the fact you're trying to hide your FAILS in those links I just posted above.
So, the way I read it: Argentina didn't want to pay $X for Windows, so they've started looking into cheaper options - and, lo, here comes Linux which is free (and has very vocal cheerleaders). So they say they'll likely go for it, and Microsoft figures that, hey, maybe $X is not a good offer? so they come up with $Y<X instead. And Argentina looks at all the options again and goes, "nah, we'd rather have Windows for $Y than Linux for free". And you have something wrong with that?
"Accepted that I was wrong that Hilton.com IS using Windows." - by Rasperin (1034758) on Monday April 09, @06:25PM (#39624293) Don't come in here calling others shit, shill, or troll again (or you'll get the SAME result, again). You've been fairly warned.
"Shut the fuck up, APK. You're a fucking kook, and nobody takes you seriously." - by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 07, @12:37PM (#39607045)
Ok, you goofy little ac troll - since U said that? Ok. Check it:
I post as AC (hard to get even +1, as /. hides our posts & we "AC"'s start @ ZERO/0 points, unlike registered "lusers", lol!):
+5 'modded up' posts by "yours truly" (5):
HOSTS & BGP:2010 -> http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1901826&cid=34490450
FIREFOX IN DANGER: 2011 -> http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2559120&cid=38268580
TESLA:2010 -> http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1872982&cid=34264190
TESLA:2010 -> http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1806946&cid=33777976
NVIDIA 2d:2006 -> http://hardware.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=175774&cid=14610147
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+4 'modded up' posts by "yours truly" (4):
APK SECURITY GUIDE:2005 -> http://developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=167071&cid=13931198
INFO. SYSTEMS WORK:2005 -> http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=161862&cid=13531817
WINDOWS @ NASDAQ 7++ YRS. NOW:2009 -> http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1290967&cid=28571315
CARMACK'S ARMADILLO AEROSPACE:2005 -> http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=158310&cid=13263898
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+3 'modded up' posts by "yours truly" (6):
APK MICROSOFT INTERVIEW:2005 -> http://developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=155172&cid=13007974
APK MS SYMBOLIC DIRECTORY LINKS:2005 -> http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=166850&cid=13914137
APK FOOLS IE7 INSTALL IN BETA HOW TO:2006 -> http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=175857&cid=14615222
PROOFS ON OPERA SPEED & SECURITY:2007 -> http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=273931&threshold=1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&cid=20291847
HBGary POST in Fake Names On Social Networks, a Fake Problem:2011 -> http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2375110&cid=37056304
APK RC STOP ROOKIT TECHNIQUES:2008 -> http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1021873&cid=25681261
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+2 'modded up' posts by "yours truly" (12):
HOW DLL API CALL LOADS WORK:2008 -> http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1001489&cid=25441395
APK TRICK TO STOP A MALWARE:2008 -> http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1010923&cid=25549351
DOING SHAREWARE 1995-2004:2007 -> http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=233779&cid
Trolls - face it: Vs. facts I posted, ur unjustified moddown's effete retaliation vs. those facts. Is that "the best you've got"? LOL!
APK
Talk about OBVIOUS MISUSE of the moderation system here. See how /. "moderation" works everyone? It's completely bogus and the "last resort" tool of trolls here, nothing more. Especially considering it was done DAYS LATER (meaning the dorks collected up their "precious registered 'luser'" karma points to do to).
Talk about making it obvious that's that case by downmodding a post where I corrected myself (especially before the trolls here could nitpicking it).
APK