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Mandatory Brake-Override Proposed For All Cars
Hugh Pickens writes "The LA Times reports that the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration wants to require automakers to include a brake-throttle override system in all their cars and light trucks to help drivers regain control when a vehicle accelerates suddenly when the throttle becomes stuck or jammed. 'America's drivers should feel confident that any time they get behind the wheel they can easily maintain control of their vehicles — especially in the event of an emergency,' says Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood. The move came after a fiery 2009 Lexus crash after a floor mat was improperly installed and may have trapped the accelerator pedal, causing the vehicle to race down California Highway 125 outside San Diego at more than 100 miles per hour, crashing and bursting into flames, killing an off-duty California Highway Patrol Officer and three members of his family. That crash led to a recall of 3.8 million Toyota and Lexus vehicles to fix the floor mat problem, and Toyota issued millions more recall notices to fix sticking gas pedals and other issues. Now Toyota has made a brake-override system standard, implementing it in all vehicles the company sold by the end of 2010, and most other automakers offer such a system on many of their vehicles or are adding it. Other automakers would have about two years to comply with the proposal (PDF). 'We learned as part of the comprehensive NASA and NHTSA studies of high-speed unintended acceleration that brake-override systems could help drivers avoid crashes,' says NHTSA Administrator David Strickland."
Do they do everything *EXCEPT* a space program now?
What political party do you join when you don't like Bible-thumpers *or* hippies?
I never understood why this option was so difficult for people.
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America needs a Driver Override. Being a troll because I have got karma to burn. Seriously though,this is more likely to be used as a backdoor to Bad driving
-- It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. -- Aristotle
The move came after a fiery 2009 Lexus crash after a floor mat was improperly installed and may have trapped the accelerator pedal, causing the vehicle to race down California Highway 125 outside San Diego at more than 100 miles per hour, crashing and bursting into flames, killing an off-duty California Highway Patrol Officer and three members of his family.
Sounds Darwinian to me. If you don't know how to turn your car off, then frankly as a race we don't need you genes!
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Probably should have reworded: "Expensive, high-tech system mandated to overcome floor mat design flaw" just to highlight the ridiculousness...
+1 Disagree
A properly functioning brake system will be able to overcome any force the engine can can produce. If you stand on both pedals, your car should go nowhere.
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I don't believe there has ever been a production model of car or truck where the brakes aren't FAR more powerful than the engine/transmission.
If you apply the brake firmly, you WILL stop, even if the engine is at Wide-Open Throttle.
http://www.caranddriver.com/features/how-to-deal-with-unintended-acceleration
"Flame away, I wear asbestos underwear"
Given that electronic fuel injection systems really only use a pedal sensor rather than an old-fashioned accelerator linkage moving an arm on the carb, it should be quite easy for a tap on the brake to override the accelerator inputs.
But the brake-torquing fans are going to be pissed! :D
I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
Fortunately, they seem to be accounting for certain intended accelerator/brake operation in the design. Or they'll just screw up the drag racing off a traffic light tradition. I just hope they leave it off cars with manual transmissions and clutches. If you can't figure out how to stop one of those, you deserve all that Darwin has to offer.
Have gnu, will travel.
The government wants cars to be unaffordable. They want to ladle so many requirements on building them that you'll need a six figure income to buy one. Sheesh.
I grew up in the 70's with a VW beetle as our family car. It didn't have anti-lock brakes, a third brake light, air conditioning, air-bags, a computer, or annoying "Door Ajar" voice. It had thin doors. Hell, it didn't even have a radiator.Those old bug engines were air-cooled. They were so light and easy to maintain, my dad overhauled one in our yard. He literally unbolted the engine from the motor mounts, lifted it up and out with his own hands, worked on it, then put it back. All without the help of pulleys, computer analysis kits, or microchips. You could drive to forever and back on a tank of gas. It was the most reliable car we ever owned.
And now, you couldn't build one in America if you wanted to, because the government would forbid it. "Inherently unsafe", they'd call it. They'd produce 3,000 pages of requirements to be filled before you could actually make one. And yet my family drove one for almost two decades, and it was safe, cheap, and reliable. So yeah, I do think that the government wants to price Americans out of the auto market sometimes.
Life is hard, and the world is cruel
The only workable response in that hypothetical situation would be to move the control knob into neutral and apply both brakes. The engine management will prevent the engine from blowing up. If the clutch doesn't disengage, still apply both brakes with maximum force (anything else could destroy the brakes by pad wear.)
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I can help but think this is a bit excessive. I could imagine if this were a common occurrence to where one had a reasonable chance of the accelerator being stuck, but I dont imagine it is.
I only know one person in San Diego driving a Toyota where that happened. Granted, he and his family were killed, but there are lots of people killed in freak accidents.
We cant make the world totally bubble wrapped. I dont want to pay for it at least.
But in Europe, all cars have to have (by law) brakes that have enough stopping power to overcome the engine. The result is that hitting the brakes will slow you down despite full throttle. This will eventually lead to a stall of the engine and a complete stop. You will damage your car, but at the point you're using this lives are at stake. Does this not apply in the US?
Then again, I've only ever really driven manuals, where in such a situation (not that it ever happened to me) I can just lift the clutch and coast to the side. Can you not shift an automatic transmission from "D" to "N" when accelerating? I've never tried tbh, but I can't think of why that wouldn't work...
Also, what is wrong with turning off the engine? Turn the key so the ignition is off, and then turn it part way. This is usually enough to stop the steering lock engaging, while still not starting the engine again.
I've never heard of this being a problem in Europe, honestly. We have automatics here too, but I've yet to hear of any runaway cars. Is this a US specific problem? If so what would cause it to be so? (or have I just missed out on these events in Europe)
Also, the BBC provide a nice article on what to do if you are in a runaway car: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/8498257.stm
How often does this happen? (does it statistically matter?)
NO!
There are so many other things which should be recommended as mandatory.
How about mandatory bluetooth integration in ALL cars to prevent drivers from using their hands to do anything other than drive?
THAT would save more lives than are lost due to "speeding out of control".
Or you could just step on the clutch. One more reason to drive stick. :-)
[Sir Garlon] is the marvellest knight that is now living, for he destroyeth many good knights, for he goeth invisible.
Sorry, Toyota reliability is still top notch. My family has owned 6 of them and they have all lasted 20 years at least.
2012 Consumer Reports top 9 most reliable brands were Japanese. Scion, Lexus and Toyota were three of those 9.
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/cars/new-cars/cr-recommended/best-worst-in-car-reliability/reliability-findings/reliability-findings.htm
My car already has one, it is called the clutch. You press that and the engine can rev all it wants without the car speeding up.
I suggest we make all cars without this much needed safety device illegal.
If you DO NOT KNOW how to stop your car should a component fail, you're driving without due care and attention. I'm not saying you *won't* hit anything, but if something major like your brakes fail or accelerator jams, then you should know what to do. Depending on the car and the damage you don't care about causing to it, this can be anything from clutch-down, to forcibly out of gear, to handbrake, to clipping kerbs deliberately, to double-de-clutching or just plain switching off the engine (seriously, if you're going to zoom at 100kph out of your control, and you've tried the obvious, fuck what you've heard about losing power-steering - you'll still HAVE steering but in the worse case of steering lock coming on, it's a damn sight better to brake in a straight line with no engine fighting you than careening about the place at speed trying to weave in and out of crap that doesn't know what's happened to you).
If you DO NOT KNOW what to do: Find out. Before you use the car again. Hell, find a "test track" like an empty car park late at night and try it out (GENTLY!) if you want. Be shocked by how ineffective a handbrake can be, and how much it can affect your steering on some cars. See how long it takes a non-powered car to start versus a powered one.
But if you don't do this, really, you're driving a car that you don't know how to drive. Any idiot can press the throttle in a strange car without thinking. But you should KNOW how the car works from a driver's perspective to the point of knowing what to do in an emergency FIRST. For 99% of cars, this isn't a problem - they are pretty much the same.
But if you notice that you're in an auto and you've never driven an auto before - look up what to do with it. If you're in a start/stop electric crap, LOOK UP WHAT TO DO WITH IT. Some of those cars have literally computer-like-resets - hold the button down for 5. During those 5 seconds (less than the recommended 2-second gap between you and the car in front), you're going to need to do something else too. Find out what will work, whether in theory or practice.
I find it quite horrendous that more people "know" you should wait for your car to sink to the bottom of the river and the pressure to equalise before getting out of it (WRONG! Get out of there before it dips below the waterline and you won't have any problems! Once the water pressure is on it, that door won't open until you're already in danger of drowning) than know how to bring an out-of-control car to a stop.
LEARN YOUR CAR. It's doing everything it can to save you all the time, and most of its cost is from safety featurees, and you can't be bothered to learn how to stop it in an emergency?
Couldn't they just ban floor mats instead or something?
You should buy a car with one of those fancy synchronized transmissions, that way heel/toe won't be "required" to downshift.
Unnecessary. In my SAAB the throttle jammed the other day - I had unwittingly kicked the floor mat off the peg and the throttle caught on the mat. I was behind another vehicle, so what did I do? Depressed the clutch, shifted into neutral and while the rev limiter was bouncing off the 6500rpm rev limiter, I kicked the throttle down repeatedly until it came loose, while maintaining control of my vehicle and keeping my left foot off the brake. I then pulled into a parking lot and fixed the mat and made sure it was in place on the pegs which normally keep it from sliding out of position. I was concerned about the engine (and turbocharger to some extent, although there was no load on the engine) after being at redline for a few seconds. So I detoured and drove around a bit in high gear at low RPM to keep oil and coolant circulating to cool things down a bit.
It was a total non-event, really. If they do require that brake-throttle override I'd want it disabled because there are times I do want throttle and brake at the same time.
I also keep traction control off in that car most of the time (I do wish I could keep it disabled by default), and on one of my other cars I actually disable ABS (I disconnect the EBCU entirely) in icy/snowy weather because ironically it adversely affects braking by being overly-sensitive (probably due to 335mm/13.1" wide tires - and no they are not slicks), greatly extending stopping distances, even when braking gently.
Besides, NO mass-produced car from the factory has enough torque to overcome its brakes. If you mash down on the brakes, the car WILL slow down and come to a stop. The problem is idiots don't apply the brakes - they miss the pedal and apply the throttle.
What is the correct solution? Get rid of the current driving licensing system since it is PURELY a revenue generator. Implement proper driver training, including safety and performance driving courses, an extended course where the instructor distracts you (maybe by setting off a small firecracker in the car, or popping a balloon, etc) and also several courses instructing you on how to deal with blowouts (on the highway you just keep driving - don't let off the throttle entirely, DO NOT BRAKE but gently back off the throttle and gradually coast down), how to steer properly (NOT hand-over-hand but sort of shuffle your hand position as you turn the wheel), how to take turns properly (don't go wide and turn sharply - follow the apex of a turn and by god don't slow down to 20mph on an on-ramp where there is no speed limit because the idea is for you to freely accelerate to merge with traffic, even overtaking speed if required), and of course, eliminate the fucking drive-around-the-block-then-parallel-park-on-a-deserted-street driving test. Make the driving test include driving through TWO major cities during rush hour, including navigating AT LEAST one roundabout properly, exercising all yields and merges properly, both obeying the law and following courtesy properly, and parallel park between two cars without customizing the bumpers on the other cars (I HATE parking on Boston streets because I find my bumpers customized by people who "feel" their way into a parking space).
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Just think, if this was always implemented, there would have been no way for the DeLorean to get up to 88 miles per hour in the mall parking lot.
They need to stop blocking innovation.
Because if I was the government, I'd love to add that particular requirement to the specifications. Makes stopping people really easy.
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In a stick shift that's probably what drivers would naturally do. In an automatic, it's not necessarily that easy.
I've practiced this. So should anybody who plans to try it in an emergency.
In my 98 Toyota Sienna, it works great, although it's easy to shift pass Neutral and go to Reverse.
In our '06 Prius, at moderate/high speeds the car simply won't let you shift from D to N, and I really doubt the computer would pay any attention at all if the driver were to try holding the power button down. But I'll try that out when I get a chance.
Not sure what this says about the "Highway Patrol Officer"'s abilities as a driver. If he couldn't manage either of those then this new system won't save him.
I have read elsewhere that the retired CHP officer's car (a Lexus) was actually determined to have an improperly installed floormat. It still begs the question of why he didn't put the car in neutral (an option even with automatic transmission). Overall, the situation suggests he may not have been thinking clearly.
The media's periodic focus on unintended accelleration always focuses on the cars, when rational observers almost always conclude the failing part of the system was the driver. Car magazines have done these articles debunking, explaining, etc a number of times with these cycles. The general public doesn't care, doesn't want to learn, and wants it to be some else's fault, preferably someone with deep pockets. Media serves up exactly that. :-(