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Student Charged For Re-selling Textbooks
AstroPhilosopher writes "The U.S. Supreme Court will hear an appeal from a Thai student who was fined $600,000 for re-selling textbooks. Trying to make ends meet, the student had family members in Thailand mail him textbooks that were made and purchased abroad, which he then resold in the U.S. It's a method many retailers practice every day. 'Discount sellers like Costco and Target and Internet giants eBay and Amazon help form an estimated $63 billion annual market for goods that are purchased abroad, then imported and resold without the permission of the manufacturer. The U.S.-based sellers, and consumers, benefit from the common practice of manufacturers to price items more cheaply abroad than in the United States. This phenomenon is sometimes called a parallel market or grey market.'"
Discount sellers like Costco and Target and Internet giants eBay and Amazon help form an estimated $63 billion annual market for goods that are purchased abroad, then imported and resold without the permission of the manufacturer.
As someone who once foolishly bought a robotics book used on Amazon ($8) that was supposed to be the real thing ($80) and instead received an Indian release version, I must say that I do not see the parallels here. First off, the Costco case applied to goods made inside the US -- not goods made outside the US like this case. These are two mutually exclusive sets of products so it's quite different in that the big retailers re-import goods made here. I find this to be a painfully important discrepancy since, especially in this case, books and other copyrighted material have very strict distribution channels. I'm not saying its right. I'm not saying it's how things should be. I'm just telling you it's how they are. And these publishers enter contracts with affiliates in other nations. A book's value is mostly determined by its content and when you're marking that down in a foreign country through a foreign distributor, it's massively different than marking down a BMW in Mexico or a wristwatch in Switzerland. The watch and car are tangible goods that may have some intrinsic value and copyright but more importantly provide a functionality. This is not the case with the textbook. I would guess in the case of college textbooks, this guy was breaking many more laws than in the case of the watch -- especially given the United States' ridiculous laws governing copyright. In the case of my purchased textbooks, the quality of the book was horrid. A paperback binding that fell apart almost instantly and seemed to be held together with potato paste with graphs I could not read since the ink was so shoddy compared to glossy thick hardcover American release. Still, the words were the same words ... and I passed the course.
My work here is dung.
When will they stop? Ever?
When I was doing my MBA, I was able to find "international versions" of textbooks on Ebay or the like. They were identical to the domestic versions but were not hardcover, in some cases printed on cheap paper - those kinds of differences. Nice way to save yourself 50% or so.
I'm not sure why publishers foist the high-grade materials on everyone especially at the college level where the book will never be used again - that is, unless it's meant to be fit for resale.
..in which you decide how much the product costs not based on how much the product costs to make, but on how much money the potential buyer has. parallel or gray market is just a term the content holders would like to use, since it doesn't make them look like asshats. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_discrimination
it's bullshit, of course. too bad for the publishers that books don't come with drm chips.
(I'm assuming that in this case the books were original - as in printed with copyright holders permission).
world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
foist the high-grade materials on everyone especially at the college level where the book will never be used again - that is, unless it's meant to be fit for resale.
I'm no MBA but this is pretty clear to even me.
My work here is dung.
It never occurred to me that selling these could possibly be grounds for a major fine. To me, this is just as bad an idea as region coding on DVD's or disallowing Americans from purchasing pharmaceuticals abroad.
My userid is prime!
That is why text book get updated so much also some professors get a cut of the book costs for the books they author so some of them rip out pages to force students to buy a new book for the class.
Also other ways to make profit is the filler and high number of gen eds that at some College push out what used to be 4 years to 5 years.
High cost dorm room that cost more then renting on your own to live a with a room mate and have shared bathroom with a full floor also have to go off campus during brakes.
High cost meal plans that have hidden fees and other stuff that can force people to buy $100's in caddy as the funds are on use it or lose it cash cards that time out.
As long as custom is paid, then it should be FULLY legal. After all if firm/MPAA/whatnot can have region code, and import cheap from China, or even outsource jobs, then everybody should be allowed to do it. Globalisation and import/export as logn as custom are paid, should be fully legal. And if they (publisher) lose money on that, bad luck.
Pretty much a cartel at this point. They even got together with the teacher's unions and pretty much killed the sale of used teacher edition books on ebay and the like to shut homeschoolers out of the market. Teachers made up the sob story of kids buying teacher editions to copy the solutions out of because they just wanted to photocopy the books. Textbook makers went along since they wanted homeschoolers to buy full price new editions instead of selling used copies between each other.
Even if you aren't a homeschooler, it jacked up the prices of textbooks immensely.
I fail to understand how the first-sale doctrine does not apply just because the first sale was outside the US. I would understand completely if ICE was coming after him for not paying duties or tariffs, but what does copyright have to do with anything here? He didn't make copies. He simply resold books the publisher was already paid for.
Years ago, when this kind of practice surfaced from time to time, the usual problem for the student doing the importing was that they neglected to pay a required duty/tariff on goods imported for resale. Which landed them in hot water with the federal government, who insisted on looking at their records and collecting -- or attempting to collect -- the amounts due. While that doesn't appear to be the issue in this case, I wonder if the tariffs are still in place and whether US Customers will be knocking on his door?
can it apply to books? and if so, does it still apply if the book was violating copyright? but how about if it WASN'T violating copyright where it was originally sold? It's a complicated issue. From a purely ethical/common sense standpoint it should be ok for him to sell it, but there may be laws bought onto the books that prevent it.
I work for the Department of Redundancy Department.
Give the kid a break. $300,000 is lesson enough.
How dare you question a publishers right to try and extract the maximum amount of money from all their customers!
They spent alot of money getting laws passed to maximize their profits. And here you are STEALING from them.
(we don't even pretend we're not corrupt and greedy above anything else anymore. we defend it!)
If you want to turn the screws on the publishers and say international trade laws are all bullshit and the books worth what it's worth and you're only paying $9 for the Indian version, I assure you they'll just sell it at $90 everywhere in the world and try to deal with the bootlegging in a much less understanding way than they are right now.
I see you replied to my post in another question about why the end consumer shouldn't be able to resell to another country. In cases of one or two books, I don't think anybody really gives a damn, it's when you're putting yourself through college on a publishers dime that they start to get upset and bring up international trade laws against you. I'm pretty sure with how copyright law works in the states and even abroad by distribution channels that this kid is going to be screwed pretty hard.
it's bullshit, of course. too bad for the publishers that books don't come with drm chips.
No, it's too bad for the publishers that they are trying to sell books cheaper inside poorer countries.
My work here is dung.
So... that's $75,000 per book. I'm sure that is entirely reasonable given the losses incurred by the publisher.
Unless, you know, there is one rule for rich companies and another rule for common people - but that'd never be the case would it?
Imagine if you had someone buy a Hollywood CD/DVD/BluRay overseas, send it to you in the USA and then you sold it on ebay in the USA.
The catch here is that the USA market is absurdly cheap so Americans don't do that ... people who live outside the USA do it.
And that my friends is why region coding, etc, was introduced.
Thus far the only country to decide that mod'ing your player that allowed grey market imports has been Australia because Sony took it to court and lost. Sony hasn't made that same mistake anywhere else.
Every level of the textbook business is about manipulation, lies, and control, from the publisher to the campus bookstore.
I researched the actual cost of textbooks once, and found industry websites with cost breakdowns which swore, up and down, that the profit margin on textbooks was 1%. I shit you not. You buy the 13th edition of your text for a retail price of $298, a book that's been out for 15 years and hundreds of printings, and they expect you to believe that even *now*, on the 13th edition, the publisher made well under $3 per copy.
On the retail side, I worked for a campus bookstore and my wife was their night manager. After they let me off for total lack of available work, I decided to just sell them books I found on ebay and bought from other students. After I sold them several dozen they fired my wife and banned me from the store based on their unwritten and inconsistently enforced policy that a student can sell only one copy of a particular title to them. Why do they care? I have no idea. The only time I sold them books was the two week period after spring semester buyback but before summer classes; I gave them more copies of these books, at prices and quantities they set, during a period when their used stock was already at it's yearly maximum but still not high enough for their liking. There were no other copies for them to acquire from students, and awful NC state laws forbid them from acquiring more used copies on Amazon, eBay, etc. For this they treated me like a criminal, fired my wife, and even made allusions to whether we'd stolen the books despite the fact that there are cameras, audits, and never less than 3 people at the registers.
It was all about control; what I did was good for their business, and they didn't give a shit. I was making money in a place they thought only they were allowed to make money. Even though it made them even more money than it made me, they hated me for it and considered it abusive.
Control, control, control.
How many textbooks did this Thai student actually sell in America? Was it 8,000 textbooks that normally sell for 75 bucks a piece in the U.S.? Or is this yet another case of someone selling a mere "handful" of copyrighted IP - perhaps 10 - 30 units - and getting slapped with a stupidly large six-digit fine for it? U.S. copyright holders, as well as U.S. courts, don't seem to have any sense of proportion when it comes to these things. How can you fine some 600,000 Dollars for something that damaged you to the tune of - maybe - a few hundred dollars, if at all. I hope the Thai kid wins this case. Whatever he did, it can't be worth a 600K fine. Also, if the kid was struggling so much financially that he needed to resort to selling textbooks to get by, how the hell is this kid going to pay the 600K fine?
Why did the chicken cross the road? Because Elon Musk put an AI chip in its head.
It is just crazy. I need a permission of the manufacturer if I want to sell my own property (products I bought and paid for)?
I don't give a shit if the Megacorp doesn't like that I purchased a cheap paperback Indian copy instead of the overpriced, glossybacked American copy. Sucks to be them. It's not my responsibility to bendover and kiss its ass..... it is not my girlfriend. I have every right as a free citizen (not a megacorp slave) to buy the cheapest copy I can find. It's called free trade.
I like how mod my comments are modded as Troll when I'm trying to explain why the situation is what it is yet your profanity laden brash response without any understanding of the concept is moderated as "Insightful."
So this is my problem with Slashdot and why I come back here only to be constantly reminded to stay away and let the people circle jerk with blinders on. I'll let someone else waist their time explaining how the world works to you folk, you clearly never learned to appreciate someone merely relaying the other side of the issue or another viewpoint to you.
Good luck upsetting the publishing business with your brilliant views! Burst forth, you need only say these words and hundreds of years of international copyright law will crumble!
My work here is dung.
... two very important facts: 1.) There is a club and 2.) He's not in it.
CUR ALLOC 20195.....5804M
Why is this any less legal than the Grey Market Dodge Grand Caravan that my family bought in 1997? At the time, the dealer told us that the vehicle was intended by the manufacturer for sale in some other country.
Silly man, he did not understand that globalisation is for corporates to exploit, it is not for individuals to benefit from.
Companies do this all the time: buy goods or get them made where ever in the world it is cheapest for them to do so. They then sell them at different prices in different countries: price it too high in India and you don't get sales, price it too low in Europe and you loose potential profit.
They can't possibly have customers doing the same thing - it would damage their profits and the CEO's bonus would have to be cut. So they adopt all manner of tactics to stop us from benefiting from globalisation in the way that they do: * region coding on DVDs, * refusal to service equipment if imported (even if identical ones are sold in the country), sue non approved importers, ... All designed to distort the free market
I would mind paying more for something that I buy in England if it were made with English labour paid English wages. What I object to is them paying third world people slave rates and charging me top dollar - I don't like the hypocrisy of it all.
Get together with, let's say, 10 of your classmates. Buy one expensive american edition of the textbook. Cut the spine, scan the pages, everyone gets a PDF. Everyone pays a tenth of the price of the book plus a couple of bucks extra to get some beers for the person who does the cutting and scanning.
If they have actually managed to make importing books illegal this method is not any worse.
These are copies of a book *LEGALLY* published and sold by the Asian subsidiaries of US publishing houses. How the f*ck are they illegal? The question is whether or not copyright law can restrict if they can be imported and resold.
Oops, sorry. I fed the troll, didn't I?
Being a student in London UK this all looks incomprehensible to me. I also find it extremely weird that you still like to call your land 'land of the free'. I'd be interested to learn more about this and other US "cartels" in education, media, health and commercial areas.
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
Every once in a while another paragraph from this story comes true. :-/
I think the rule is simple: different prices in different markets are a result of supply and demand... well, mostly. If items are purchased at bargain prices in market B to be resold in market A then the company operating in market A may go bankrupt. People will get fired, lives will be expose to chaos. The question is, what sets the price in market A? Is there any negotiation at all? When a publisher sets a price there is no negotiation; it's take it or leave it, period. This is the issue that should be debated, and it also applies to movies, music, software, prescription drugs. I can negotiate the price of my car but not the price of a BD that I purchase at BestBuy. Some market economy.
You could have bought the tapes from Canada, eh.
No brain, no pain.
Capitalism. Corporations love it until real people use it to their advantage.
Hi Elena, is there any chance you could actually start earning your fat salary and get out of bed once in a while?
I RTFM and it's missing some information.
In the earlier 4-4 decision (Kagan recusing self), which justices voted for which side?
How many textbooks did the guy import and sell. Was it just for friends and family or was he running a business?
Were the textbooks bought overseas in violation of copyright when he bought them overseas or was it merely the fact that he tried to resell them and do so in the US that is being complained about?
I often don't like the choices people make, but I like the fact that people make choices. That's why I'm a conservative.
Why did the publisher get $600,000 dollars when the kid only sold 8 of their textbooks?
Shouldn't they only get the equivalent of what each US published book is sold for?
Finally a good reason to burn the text book on linear algebra.
That's why they call them lower courts. There's no rational reason, other than restraint of trade, for a legally "manufactured" copy, once sold (anywhere), shouldn't be re-sold, regardless of where the sale takes place. Ownership is ownership, and a legal copy is a legal copy. Why should I be able to tell my customer what they can or cannot do with "their" copy of a work for to which I gave up my ownership interest? (In any other circumstances this would be considered an attempt to control the market.) It defies reason
There's a parallel in the Pharma world. Drug manufacturers have enjoyed protected markets for their U.S. sales, with the help of Congress and the FDA, using the ridiculous argument that manufacturing standards elsewhere MAY not meet those required domestically. Reality says that any manufacturing plant that operates to standard CAN produce drugs safely and efficiently. The only thing being protected is the profit margin of huge companies with massive lobbying budgets and strong political ties.
The ridiculousness of this situation has been revealed because of the 'shortage' of certain drugs that are available from overseas manufacturers and suddenly allowed into the U.S. when the generic versions are in short supply because big Pharma has allocated its domestic resources to more profitable (patent protected) drugs.
Such a criminal for selling text books.. OMG... This corporate influence system of law is getting retarded..
Section 602(a)(1) prohibits the importation into the United States of copyrighted works acquired abroad without the authorization of the copyright holder.
Is that authorization to acquire
or authorization to import.
IF the purpose of 602(a)(1) is to cover the case of the copy being made outside the reach of the US court by putting the importer on the hook,
then it is authorization to acquire ant the enterprising student should be off the hook. Note that this is consistant with first sale.
If the purpose is to control distribution, then this flies in the face of first sale. (And probably the constitutional intent for copyright in the first place.)
Pardon my ignorance but what law exactly did this dude break? I'm American, and I don't understand what crime he committed.
What if he sold them not as text books but as fire starter material? That just happened to be books?
It's getting to the point that you can never be sure whether a copy is legal or not. If you haven't read the original contract between the author and the publisher and the distributor you cannot be sure if you are acquiring a legal copy. Reading the copyright page in a book does not always state whether it is legal to distribute in such and such a country.
Now if he had pirated the book, since he was a student of few means, he would not be in this situation where he would have the need to sell the book.
If you cannot resell a legally purchased copy then it's best you pirate and be done with it. I don't subscribe to the idea that there is a grey market.
DRM? No thanks, I'll just get it somewhere else...
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
Often wrong but never in doubt.
I am Jack9.
Everyone knows me.
10 years ago I knew a couple who owned the campus books of a small state university, and boy did they make a mint off of it. Lake house, lots of expensive toys, etc.
The real question is how do we donate to this guy's defense?
But, but - I thought that RMS was a filthy hippy and that "the right to read" was some far-fetched fiction that could never happen !?
That's the difference in a nutshell...
"The tape speed is 3.335 cm/s for NTSC, 2.339 cm/s for PAL."
A difference of ~1.43x. A VHS tape labelled "12 hours" in england would be labelled "8.4 hours" in the US, even though the two objects were exactly the same.
I can't seem to mod you up to +6
Copyright literally only applies to COPYING. He's not in any way copying, he's taking things the publisher has already copied and sold legally. First-sale rights apply, and he can resell it. The only person actually involved is the initial publisher; everyone else is just buying and selling legitimate copies. If he scanned it, and distributed it, that would be infringement. If he printed off another copy and sold it, that would be copyright infringement; but he's not, he's selling legitimately produced copies, where the royalties have already been payed to the copyright holder.
No court should have allowed this case to get past a quick dismissal with prejudice... and preferably a fine for wasting the court's time.
The law in question is Title 17, Section 602. It was passed in 1976. So the relevant answer to your question is: not in 1976 anyway.
I'm also guessing "they" won't stop 30 years ago, or 20 years ago either. You think maybe they'll stop 10 years ago? Maybe we should wait and see...
I still don't understand how we put up with it.
Because you have to. Because you can't afford your own lobbyist.
Weaselmancer
rediculous.
I generally prefer the Asian editions of textbooks. Beyond the lower price, they tend to be printed on old-style ordinary paper rather than clay-coat as is now used in nearly all U.S. editions. The glossy surface of clay-coat feels disgusting and produces glare, which makes it difficult to read. This paper also is so heavy that the books are difficult to handle and use. The bindings are shoddy; my hardcover U.S. copy of Griffiths' Introduction to Quantum Mechanics had its covers falling off after only one semester of use, whereas my softcover India copy of Griffiths' Introduction to Electrodynamics is still in fine shape.
To avoid wrecking my wrists, and to reduce my knapsack load, I often ended up ripping my U.S. textbooks down into sections of one to a few chapters, then having these rebound with hot melt glue bindings and manila covers at a local copy store.
But how many of the professors are viciously examining text versions and reworking their classes to only use the new pages?
I had a fun variant of this one time when I got hold of a free copy of an older version of a text book (like V2 vs V4) and it was BETTER than the current version! I am a Preface & Introduction junkie, so I compared. The 2nd Ed that I acquired was all "Thanks for da luv in the first edition, here's the second, off you go". The 4th ed went "We have trimmed and tightened the material for maximum educational impact by reducing the extraneous material that might distract from the topic at hand. Then we added more big pictures and huge 3 inch margins on the page."
I used the older copy, kept the new one only to watch for sneak shots, and an hour extra per week I had better context than anyone else in the class because my copy was 5 pages longer per chapter.
My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
But how many of the professors are viciously examining text versions and reworking their classes to only use the new pages?
Probably quite a few. On the other hand, I was fortunate enough to have a superb organic chemistry instructor who felt that his book was the best, and required us to use it, but recognized the conflict of interest and gave the royalties from each term as a scholarship for the highest scoring students.
Many of my other professors were also sensitive to pricing issues and posted separate problem sets and reading assignments for previous editions. That said, I'm sure textbook-related ethical violations are widespread at other schools.
.: Semper Absurda
You want to know why health care costs so much in the US? It's because the costs are hidden from consumers. Drug companies and doctors don't care because insurance takes care of it. Other countries limit what price pharmaceutical companies can charge, and wouldn't you know it, they still make a profit. I don't understand why the WTO allows this barrier to free trade.
... The books are the same ...
From the GP's post it is pretty clear the books are not the same. Physically disintegrating, poor glue/binding, poor printing, poor ink, poor paper, etc.
... overpriced for the same material you can get elsewhere ...
Yes and no. While there is overpricing in the US there is also underpricing in some foreign markets. Basically US buyers get to pay for most of the R&D and some overseas buyers get to free ride to a degree. Textbook, medicine, etc can certainly be less expensive than typically seen in the US but we can not get close to some of those overseas prices or it won't be profitable to develop this stuff in the first place.
Maybe a particularly intelligent Indian or Chinese or Thai might actually write a textbook on such fast-moving subjects as linear algebra, classical mechanics or electromagnetism, manufacture and price it for the local market, just like they are able to supply billions of people with all sorts of other goods at prices they can afford?
This guy was no "student reselling textbooks" - makes it sound like he got busted for resellign his used textbooks.
"The U.S.-based sellers, and consumers, benefit from the common practice of manufacturers to price items more cheaply abroad than in the United States. This phenomenon is sometimes called a parallel market or grey market.'"
or
Lol? The theives and people who buy stolen goods benefit from the common practice of stealing and selling for much cheaper. This phenomenon is somtimes called fencing.
How many times do we hear the valid argument that goods should be priced for 3rd world markets. That's what publishers do. They price for the third world markets because a doctor makes $200 a month in India. You can't sell a textbook for $40 there, you sell it for $2. If you buy them there and bring them here and resell them for say 50% of the market value here, either publishers will stop w/the 3rd world editions (you screw the 3rd world) or they'll go out of business here (you screw us).
Not your problem? Too bad for the publishers?
Let me post the problem in a way your selfish brain can understand. In India they pay their software developers just a few bucks an hour, why shouldn't your salary be the same as theirs? What? Cost of living is different here? Fuck me, didn't see that coming.
I can't help but laugh at why we are even discussing the high cost of text books. Back here in India my college had a book bank (yes you heard it right) which loaned books to students for the whole semester for free. Of course you were limited to only 5 books and popular authors were high in demand, you could usually get a decent enough book for each of your subjects. Plus you could lend a book from the regular old college library to fill in the gaps from other books if needed. The system worked pretty great and allowed all of us to benefit from the free text books and made sense overall. Professors on their part didn't mandate any single author or text book for classroom and thus encouraged us to read from as many different text as we deemed fit to understand what was being taught. The idea being that we learn and not that we learn (read mug up) some exact text tied to an author/version/publishing house!
I do not see why American colleges can maintain such book banks, hell if a graduating call just donated its books to the college a good enough book ban can be built in no time. Of course it also requires that colleges/professors stop mandating specific texts in classroom; something we're unlikely to see in any near future (or any of the parallel universes if they exits!).
It seems that the key issue is of the publisher being granted rights to limit resale.
Frankly, I don't know how they can be allowed to sue anyone for competing against the publisher's own distribution channels. It is a free market economy, is not? Do we have to seek an extension of antitrust legislation onto distribution channels, as well, now?
Vinyl LP records, heck, 45's and eps in the 1960's through the 1980's made in the UK, Germany, Japan, and even France were often had superior sound quality compared to the US pressing. Often there were different tracks on the LPs, well known in the instance of the Beatles. The first several Beatles LPs had reverb added to a lot of the vocal tracks, and many US releases were heavily compressed. Compare Jimi Hendrix US releases to the UK or German releases as an example of that. Even though Japanese presses were typically made of one more generation removed master tape, they were more careful in the manufacturing process, and tended to us Virgin Vinyl and heavier thicker records. Not to mention there were many records not released in the US, even of US recording artists.
As a result there was a thriving industry in importing records into the US for music lovers. And audiophiles. Evnetually, I think it was EMI /Capitol sued on the basis that they had an exclusive agreement with Capitol to distribute Beatle records in the USA. Stories and fear mongering that you would be busted going through customs with foreign records were rampant. And in a few years...not much had changed.
Now if you will excuse me, I'm going to go play my rare UK mono copy of Cream Disraeli Gears, with different mixes....
So a book is priced USD 80 in USA and USD 8 in India. A US retailer manages to import copies from India and sells them well below 80 bucks and still makes a profit.
Don't get excited about copyrights, trademarks and any intellectual property keywords. What we have here is publishers trying to absorb as much as they can from the consumer's rent (i.e. differentiate the price according to the target group). And exploiting and promoting legal structures that allow them to do so.
On the other side, we have customers that just don't play the game. And people like YOU come in and try to generate some kind of public sentiment against them.
The $600K fine seems excessive, until you realise that the operation apparently took in $900K. That's...a lot of cheap books. It's probably not pure profit, but this is definitely not a small-scale operation. Definitely not "I'll buy my textbooks on the grey market, and sell a couple spares". Not even "I'll supply my friends" or even "I'll supply all the students in my department". It's a "powerseller on Ebay" part-time business.
> High cost meal plans that have hidden fees and other stuff that can force people to buy $100's in caddy as the funds are on use it or lose it cash cards that time out.
I bought several hundred dollars of phone cards with the remainder of mine that appeared to have no expiration date. They banned that practice not long afterwards.
Oh, and the phone cards actually did expire, they just didn't say anything about expiring on the card. Bastards.
Since he isn't copying the book, copyright doesn't apply.
Your argument is rendered invalid.
Copyright is kind of a misleading name. It's not just about making more copies; it's also about public performances, public displays, derivative works, and in this case distribution (including importation, although resale is really at the heart of the thing).
17 USC 106 covers the major rights that compromise copyright.
-- This and all my posts are in the public domain. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice.
I hope this gets thrown out of court, or if it does not someone takes walmart and costco to court for the same thing and use this case as their precedent. It is not fair that the little guy is not allowed to do what the big guis do on a daily basis. It just shows you need to grease the hands of the politicians so they leave you alone for the same practice that could get you jailed. ...I hope he wins....
But what about the huge corporations who pay 35 cents an hour to chinese factory workers to make the product, then sell it here for outrageous profits?
Those textbook companies need a better way to make a profit. They also need to cut down on producing so many editions and make a revised edition maybe once or twice a decade to fix mistakes. One of my textbooks is decades old if I'm not mistaken, and littered with mistakes. (As a former student, not a teacher.)
Textbooks wear out. If textbooks were cheap, I'm sure students wouldn't mind buying them brand new, especially if it is in his or her major. If they are expensive, there can be used textbooks, rent them if possible, or even share them. (I bet a textbook share program would really anger those textbook companies.)
Those textbook companies are making money through other means, aren't they? The goal should be to at least stay in the black. Are they at risk of going into debt if they went low-profit for the textbook portion of their industry?
Now, as to the article in question...
If it is deemed illegal, could that carry over to buying media outside the country?
If someone buys textbooks in America and resells them in a country where textbooks are cheaper, could that reseller argue that the textbook companies need to reimberse the difference for the original higher country?
If the textbook companies loses the case, won't they just lobby Congress to have tariffs placed on importating textbooks into America?
Because you have to. Because you can't afford your own lobbyist.
I have my mum. Does she count?
Once again it's ok for corporate america but not for the average citizen trying to make a go of it here.
Well part of the difference is that a Canadian/Imperial Gallon is 4.5 litres whereas an American Gallon is only 3.8 litres due to their less than pint-sized pints.
I mean, really - is the question whether he "illegally" imported them for resale? Does that actually count if they're used, and he's selling used books?
mark "how about my large collection of used books?"
Yeah, since I'm paying the bills at the college I just use the cheapest relevant text I can get my hands on and let the professor know up front that is what I will be using. They never complain and I don't put up with those who do. The squeaky wheel gets the grease. Saves me a ton of money. Between borrowing and buying used books I spent $15 this quarter. Compared to $700 for the "sticker prices."
I object to power without constructive purpose. --Spock
Like when you pick up some abysmal text of weak construction and mediocre content and think WTF?!, this was the BEST textbook available? No, it was the one with the highest profit margin for the bookstore.
I object to power without constructive purpose. --Spock
I think many of you are missing the point.
Kirtsaeng DID NOT just resell one book he bought in Thailand. He was importing many books printed overseas to sell for a profit. Only 8 books are at the center of the allegations but the Yahoo News article implies these were not the only 8 books being sold, they were simply the only books printed overseas. This was not a case of personal use.
"The high court already has ruled that copyright protections do not apply when the goods are made in the U.S., sold abroad and reimported. This case concerns only foreign-made items."
~http://news.yahoo.com/thai-students-money-making-effort-centre-us-supreme-152203267.html
I think it's brilliant, too bad he got caught. If I'd noticed the price discrepancy I would have done it too. Buy low sell high right? Maybe we should add: don't apply this to importing foreign manufactured goods that are copyrighted in America.
I do think it's a larger problem in primary / secondary education than at universities. The quality of the elementary / middle / high school books I used (and seen my little sisters use) is worse than abysmal.
At every department I've been involved with books were selected carefully by faculty committees with student feedback. Of course, not too many of us actually took the time to read the book samples and issue recommendations.
Anyway, anything the campus bookstore is involved in is going to be bad news. Those bastards are the same everywhere and know no bounds to their price gouging and anti-competitive behavior.
RIP Slug Books!
.: Semper Absurda
When you buy something you own it. It's yours, to do with as you wish - even if your intent is to sell it on immediately. It's called free market economy. Deal with it.
Operation Guillotine is in effect.
Just a student and only 8 books sold openly on e-bay.
An extract from the original article.
While at USC, Kirtsaeng arranged for family and friends living abroad to purchase textbooks and ship them to him. He resold the copies on eBay. Eight textbooks sold by Kirtsaeng were published by Wiley's Asian subsidiary. The company sued the student in federal court in New York.
eBay was among the outside parties urging the court to hear the case and decide it in Kirtsaeng's favour.
The case will be argued in the fall.
Why wait till fall to argue the case? Presumably to get more opinion or sway the opinions? OK
I like how mod my comments are modded as Troll when I'm trying to explain why the situation is what it is yet your profanity laden brash response without any understanding of the concept is moderated as "Insightful."
1. Statistically speaking, 43.5% of Slashdot moderators are morons.
2. The parent's post said basically the same thing yours did, but with 1/8 of the words. Your big block of a paragraph was convoluted, and took its sweet time getting to the point. It was easier and quicker for people to understand the parent's than yours, which is why it got the upmods and you got the one moron to downmod Troll.
Good luck upsetting the publishing business with your brilliant views! Burst forth, you need only say these words and hundreds of years of international copyright law will crumble!
Good luck upsetting the publishing business with your brilliant views! Burst forth, you need only say these words and hundreds of years of international copyright law will crumble!
Funny, cause I was under the impression that if a large enough and growing percentage of the population wants things to be a certain way, then that's the way it becomes, regardless of what the shrinking minority "declares" is "law."