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Expect Mandatory 'Big Brother' Black Boxes In All New Cars From 2015
New submitter Kraftwerk writes "A bill already passed by the Senate and set to be rubber stamped by the House would make it mandatory for all new cars in the United States to be fitted with black box data recorders from 2015 onwards. Section 31406 of Senate Bill 1813 (known as MAP-21), calls for 'Mandatory Event Data Recorders' to be installed in all new automobiles and legislates for civil penalties to be imposed against individuals for failing to do so. 'Not later than 180 days after the date of enactment of this Act, the Secretary shall revise part 563 of title 49, Code of Federal Regulations, to require, beginning with model year 2015, that new passenger motor vehicles sold in the United States be equipped with an event data recorder that meets the requirements under that part,' states the bill."
And in all new persons from 2016.
(Maybe old ones too)
Sig? Heil
If they are indeed just local data recorders, I don't really see a problem, as they could be used to make insurance arguments a lot less painful.
It's only really a privacy concern for the overly paranoid if they are data-transmission-enabled.
Most cars already have black boxes."The 'event data recorder' is known commonly as a black box and has been installed in some vehicles since 1996. About 60 million vehicles now have them and 85 percent of new cars this year will come standard with a “black box,” according to National Highway Traffic Safety Administration estimates." -- via NHSTA. There are actually some good things in this bill -- such as establishing that police need a court order to get access to data and that the driving data belongs to the owner of the car not the manufacturer.
The next thing you know, the government will be totally involved in your private lives, such as making decisions about who you can marry and restricting your ability to make decisions about your own body.
(b) Limitations on Information Retrieval-
(1) OWNERSHIP OF DATA- Any data in an event data recorder required under part 563 of title 49, Code of Federal Regulations, regardless of when the passenger motor vehicle in which it is installed was manufactured, is the property of the owner, or in the case of a leased vehicle, the lessee of the passenger motor vehicle in which the data recorder is installed.
(2) PRIVACY- Data recorded or transmitted by such a data recorder may not be retrieved by a person other than the owner or lessee of the motor vehicle in which the recorder is installed unless--
(A) a court authorizes retrieval of the information in furtherance of a legal proceeding;
(B) the owner or lessee consents to the retrieval of the information for any purpose, including the purpose of diagnosing, servicing, or repairing the motor vehicle;
(C) the information is retrieved pursuant to an investigation or inspection authorized under section 1131(a) or 30166 of title 49, United States Code, and the personally identifiable information of the owner, lessee, or driver of the vehicle and the vehicle identification number is not disclosed in connection with the retrieved information; or
(D) the information is retrieved for the purpose of determining the need for, or facilitating, emergency medical response in response to a motor vehicle crash.
Big deal.
Your 2012 Charger almost certainly already has a "black box" as do most cars built since the mid 1990's.
If you want news from today, you have to come back tomorrow.
This Black Box is similar to stuff that's already IN your car, and airplanes, etc. Here is the legislature that will be revised to *require* the devices, so you can look at the details of what's being required.
http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=ecfr&sid=adfa70d7fb0603db957cef53e728148f&rgn=div5&view=text&node=49:6.1.2.3.31&idno=49
Particularly, check the latter sections. "Each vehicle equipped with an EDR must meet the requirements specified in 563.7 for data elements, 563.8 for data format, 563.9 for data capture, 563.10 for crash test performance and survivability, and 563.11 for information in owner's manual."
Can you find a source for this information a bit more reliable than Infowars? I accidentally clicked on it and now I have to go wash my mouse and monitor.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/kashmirhill/2012/04/19/hate-to-break-it-to-you-but-your-car-likely-has-a-black-box-spying-on-you-already/
"Flyin' in just a sweet place,
Never been known to fail..."
I suppose its not all that big a deal if I get into a wreck and they want to download the airbag and antilock brake performance data. But at some point, the cops are going to want the capability to jack in to your car's log and download that rather than actually watching for violations. That's when I park the new car and go back to driving my '79 4x4. No event recorder. No working smog devices (old enough to be exempt from testing). No airbags. And the energy absorbing collision crush zone is the Prius I'm about to hit.
Have gnu, will travel.
Thinking long and hard is... oh, hey! The football game is on! Grab a beer and have a seat!
IIRC, one of the big issues with the existing black boxes is that they are in a format only the OEM can read.
I didn't see anything in TFA about making a standard, any news about that?
I'd love the ability to put an app on my laptop or phone & review the data logs my car can produce. There a ton of data in a modern car that could be very useful to an owner. Even more if you're a parent with kids that drive.
Grammer Nazis - I mod you "troll" unless you actually add something on-topic. Yes, I know I have mispellings in my sig.
If the primary source for a link is InfoWars, look for a secondary link from a less biased and/or batshit insane source. If one cannot be found, skip the article please.
It's better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.
- E. Debs
Then you'll be happy to know that all Dodge Chargers since 2006 already have these installed.
remember when the Republicans used to be all about civil liberties and keeping the government from crawling up your ass?
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - Evelyn Beatrice Hall, re Voltaire
And in all new persons from 2016.
(Maybe old ones too)
Citizen. You're concern is noted and quite unnecessary. It is a matter of safety and we all want safety after all.
Well, I don't know about you, but the thing that totally irks me is when my other citizens feel it necessary to run red lights - not only scaring me but threatening the safety of my children, my fellow drivers and myself of course.
We are all in agreement here, I am sure.
Then there is highway and interstate driving. Unfortunately, there are folks who seem to think that obeying traffic law - such as passing and speed limit laws - are optional and there seems to be an attitude of entitlement. We all don't want that.
Anything that helps with the enforcement of such unsafe and deviant behavior is welcomed by everyone including yourself.
Compliance in necessary from all and will be enforced.
Thank you for your cooperation.
Points, condenser, coil. That's it. Also my radio is a tube radio so likely somewhat resistant to EMP. I only drive vehicles '60s or older.
Who would have guessed that the survivors of the apocalypse would be .... grandpa?
Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
Actually yes they are all made with UV-resistant black plastic cases. Unlike the black boxes in airplanes which are red or orange.
"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
Your girlfriend left you? You're doing a good job of typing without any hands.
No. Since when did these mythical people ever actually exist?
for a week, when their meds stop arriving.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Maybe the government could contract with Apple and produce a White Box model. People would be lining up around the block to get it installed.
Black Boxes are typically things that scare Slashdot. We don't know how they work, as compared to a documented "white box" solution.
This definition of a "Black Box" is different. It's an event data recorder, meant to be like the orange devices found at airplane crash sites designed to let everybody know the status of the vehicle before it crashed. No big privacy change because most cars already have one, it's just a law change that requires there be standards,. rules, and such for these things in the future.
Everyone knows the constitution doesn't apply when you're doing something in a public space.
Republicans were ike that post-Eisenhower and pre-George Bush.
Remember when the DEMOCRATS were for small government and individual rights (except blacks)? Now they boss us around as if we were employees of the governments. "Buy insurance." "Throw-away your lightbulbs." "Put black boxes in your cars." "Submit to random VIPR patdowns all across the country."
When both parties are pro-government, then it's only a matter of time until a "you can't trust the government" contingent arrives on the scene. As Jefferson stated, that is the natural tendency of the party system: 1 for more government; 1 for less government. I predict it will happen within the Republican party, thanks to the Ron Paul movement (started 2007).
My AC stalker: " I personally agree with your posts most of the time, but that won't keep me from modding you troll"
haha, someone bought into the Hemi psuedo engineering.
Man, you where scammed.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
"Buy insurance."
As I understood it, Congress "mandated" that you buy insurance in the same way that they "mandated" you buy new energy efficient doors/windows for your house. Which is to say they didn't mandate it at all. What they did was they offered a tax credit for those that already had insurance, much the same way that there is a tax credit for replacing your older doors/windows with new energy efficient doors/windows.
I keep asking politely if you would care to correct my misunderstanding, but you've yet to do so. Why is that?
remember when the Republicans used to be all about civil liberties and keeping the government from crawling up your ass?
If that was the case, then why have laws at all? I don't understand how anybody can feel aggrieved that they're not being allowed to break the law. Don't get me wrong, if you want to speed or act like a dick in traffic, go right ahead - but whining that somebody is gonna try and catch you out isn't exactly the outlaw way. Oh, what's that you say Sundance? The sheriff is watching the bank? That's an outrageous invasion of my privacy. Hold my gun while I write my congressman...
Points, condenser, coil. That's it. Also my radio is a tube radio so likely somewhat resistant to EMP. I only drive vehicles '60s or older.
Who would have guessed that the survivors of the apocalypse would be .... grandpa?
Nah, that's just whose car you'll need to steal.
William of Ockham had no beard. The most likely explanation is that it was chewed off by squirrels every morning.
Once cars drive themselves, people will be far more interested in having these black boxes. They're only put off by them while the black boxes could rat them out for going 70 in a 55. As for the devices recording routes, times, destinations and other "private" information, I'm sure the self-driving cars will already log this information as a side-effect of using remote servers for navigation and traffic data. This may already be going on every time you use your smart phone for directions...
The first 240Zs were made in 1969. I had one of those. Sadly they were made with such thin sheet metal that all but a few showcars (or otherwise obsessively maintained cars) have rusted through. Awesome car, though.
Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
No, they CLAIMED to be like that. There's a big difference between the two. They were plenty fond Of getting the government involved in people's sex lives, their reproductive health choices, whether or not they used drugs, using the government to mandate school prayer on people, etc. Let us also not forget that it was under Reagan that the country went from being the world's largest creditor to the world's larget debtor (before you try to claim the whole republicans are fiscal conservatives nonsense).
Many people don't have car insurance.
- people who walk
- people who ride a horse (my Amish neighbors)
- people who use a buggy (local farmers)
- people who ride a bike
- or train
- or bus
- or cycle
FURTHERMORE and this is the most important part: The Member States have the power to mandate insurance, but the central Congress does not. Read amendment 10 of our bill of rights.
So if Massachusetts wants to mandate the purchase of hospital insurance, they can. I think that's anti-freedom idea but, per the 10th, they have the authority. The central government does not.
My AC stalker: " I personally agree with your posts most of the time, but that won't keep me from modding you troll"
In that act is also this little bit, for those of us who can't detect humans in the back seat after we turn the car off.
SEC. 31504. UNATTENDED PASSENGER REMINDERS.
(a) Safety Research Initiative- Not later than 2 years after the date of enactment of this Act, the Secretary shall complete research into the development of performance requirements to warn drivers that a child or other unattended passenger remains in a rear seating position after the vehicle motor is disengaged.
(b) Specifications- In carrying out subsection (a), the Secretary shall consider performance requirements that--
(1) sense weight, the presence of a buckled seat belt, or other indications of the presence of a child or other passenger; and
(2) provide an alert to prevent hyperthermia and hypothermia that can result in death or severe injuries.
(c) Rulemaking or Report-
(1) RULEMAKING- Not later than 1 year after the completion of each research and testing initiative required under subsection (a), the Secretary shall initiate a rulemaking proceeding to issue a Federal motor vehicle safety standard if the Secretary determines that such a standard meets the requirements and considerations set forth in subsections (a) and (b) of section 30111 of title 49, United States Code.
(2) REPORT- If the Secretary determines that the standard described in subsection (a) does not meet the requirements and considerations set forth in subsections (a) and (b) of section 30111 of title 49, United States Code, the Secretary shall submit a report describing the reasons for not prescribing such a standard to--
(A) the Committee on Commerce, Science, and Transportation of the Senate; and
(B) the Committee on Energy and Commerce of the House of Representatives.
No. They only ever wanted to keep the government from investigating the exploits of their wealthy benefactors.
Points, condenser, coil. That's it. Also my radio is a tube radio so likely somewhat resistant to EMP. I only drive vehicles '60s or older.
Who would have guessed that the survivors of the apocalypse would be .... grandpa?
Nah, that's just whose car you'll need to steal.
That may not be funny. I have an acquaintance who is a self-defined survivalist. He stockpiles weapons and ammunition. I asked him why he didn't stockpile food, fuel, communications gear or any of the other stuff survivalists usually have in their garage. He said because with weapons, he can acquire everything else he needs. I guess that includes a car old enough to have mechanical ignition.
Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
I dont remember them ever malfunctioning. The officer just explained that gosh, he'd love to show me the data but seeing as he told me to stay in the car then looking at the radar would be Disobeying A Police Officer, Interfering With An Investigation, Resisting Arrest, and possibly Accidentally Falling On A Nightstick In A Public Place. Not to mention that He Never Said That, and if I could prove he did it would be a Violation Of Federal Wiretap Laws (speaking in leading caps is a cool skill they teach in cop school).
Variation on the Jedi Mind Trick: "You dont need to see the radar. I gave you a break so you should thank me for this ticket. These are not the droids you're looking for. Move along."
Wow you are...just....
Wow.
You can breath and sit still at the same time, right? I don't mean chew gum and walk. That would clearly be out of your league.
Let me use small words so I don't lose you:
The re-pub-li-cans made the Tea Party so they control the "you can't trust gov'ment" people. The Dem-o-crats would like to do the same thing with the "99%/Occupy" thingy but don't know how. This way both parties can dump the 'less gov'ment' nut-bags (from their point of view) into the non-party parties and pretend to listen to them. In reality what they do is point and laugh. "look at the fringe nut cases. They are not part of our party."
Case closed.
I've actually thought about putting one in my own car. I was sitting at a stop light maybe 10 years ago when some moron teenager was speeding down the road at 45 mph while fishing around for CDs on the floor of his car. He hit the car BEHIND me without so much as tapping his brakes. That car smashed into mine, totalling it. My car then hit the guy in front of me. Imagine my outrage when talking to some insurance drone who told me he had to talk to the other drivers to see if they felt one impact or two. The theory being that if it was one, it was because *I* was moving and hit the guy in front of me, causing them all to pile into me. If it was more than one, the story was as I related.
I wouldn't have minded having a /var/log somewhere that said 22:34:02: velocity 0.00 m/s accel 0.00 g throttle 0% brakes 5%....22:34:45 velocity 35.33 m/s accel 12.1 g throttle 0% brakes 0%. Hard data would have shown beyond a shadow of a doubt I was in a stationary car that suddenly accelerated like it was hit by a moving SUV.
Are you suggesting that everyone chooses to get pregnant? Even women who are raped?
"Republicans were ike that post-Eisenhower and pre-George Bush."
Richard Nixon was hardly a defender of civil liberty.
"This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
No, but if the states refuse to enact such a law, then they don't get any federal funding for the roads. This is the same way that the federal government got the speed limits reduced, and the legal drinking age raised.
For a while now I've wondered if it would be feasible to make these black boxes exchange info when a collision occurs, making it much harder to get away with a hit-and-run. As the car would broadcast the data upon detecting a collision, receivers could also be put up at intersections to direcly communicate to the local authorities, which would help with car/pedestrian hit-and-run events where there is no victim black box to otherwise receive the data.
My webcomic
That is set by your state, not the feds.
And not all states have the same insurance requirements. I think some don't require it...and I believe a couple will let you prove you have a bond or money in escrow in lieu of insurance.
So, that is a state thing my friend.
Hmm...that reminds me...where in the Constitutions does it authorize the Federal govt to put a data recording and tracking device on my car?
Seriously...how is THAT interstate commerce?!?!
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
Um.. I said no such thing. Unless you consider having health insurance to be a "penalty".
Again, as I understood it, they raised taxes across the board to pay for something that they were already paying for. If an uninsured patient is brought into the ER, treated, and then it turns out they are unable to foot the bill, it was Uncle Sam that picked up the tab. Perhaps not directly from the patient or the hospital, but it worked its way to Uncle Sam. If you have insurance, then your bill was picked up by your insurance company. As a result, you got a tax credit* since Uncle Sam would never need to pick up your tab.
Now if you'd like to argue that Uncle Sam shouldn't be picking up the tab in the first place, fair enough. I can respect that answer. But if you think that the across the board tax increase should be removed, and that Uncle Sam should continue picking up the tab on people who are unable to pay their hospital bills, well... I'd hate to see your home budget.
*I did see the part about how the tax credit isn't yet in place, thank you to the person who informed us of that.
It has been said that the TSA/Border Patrol can setup checkpoints something like 30? miles from a border
Try 100 miles.
2/3 of the US population lives within 100 miles of a border (which includes coastlines), which is effectively a Constitution-Free zone.
Why is it that the proponents of "one nation under God" are so eager to get rid of "liberty and justice for all"?
Yeah, he was the one who desegregated schools under the law passed during the Kennedy administration. Where were Kennedy and Johnson on that one? As a Senator he voted for the civil rights bills that came to vote. As VP, he helped shepherd the Civil Rights Act of 1957 through Congress. Nixon implemented the Philadelphia Plan in 1970 - the first significant federal affirmative action program. He endorsed the Equal Rights Amendment when it went to the states for ratification. There are lots of true negative things you can say about Nixon, but his Civil Rights record isn't one of them.
The US government have made it clear that we have no inalienable rights; any we do not defend vigorously will be taken.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logan's_Run
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logan's_Run_(film)
"To track this, the humans are implanted at birth with a Lifeclock crystal in the palm of their hand that changes colors as they approach their "Last Day". To maintain order, the computer has assigned Sandmen (officially known as DS agents, de facto executioners), who pursue and terminate Runners (those who try to avoid Carrousel)."
A 21st century issue: the irony of technologies of abundance in the hands of those still thinking in terms of scarcity.
Republicans have gone so far right and the Democrats have gone so far left
Minor correction: The Republicans have gone so brutally far to the right that the Democrats' gentle drift to the right appears to be leftwards motion; It is only an optical illusion though.
Although if you really believe Democrats are in favor of communism then facts may not be terribly interesting to you.
"All these years believing you're the signified monkey, only to find out you're just a big hunk of nobody cares."
Father to Daughter/Son
Hmm, there seems to be some abnormality in the data, the blackbox registered that you were driving on a saw-tooth road, yet the vehicle was not moving.
Load New Commander (Y/N)?
Justice Scalia objected to the Independent Counsel law because it allowed the prosecutor to dig into the President's affairs to try to find a crime, any crime, that had been committed. This differed from traditional law enforcement where there was first an allegation of a specific crime and then the investigators looked for evidence of that crime.
The black box is like the former. It is something the police can look at to see if any crimes were committed rather than reacting to a crime that was known to have been committed.
This might not be so bad if we weren't drowning in traffic laws (and every other kind of law). The truth is that it is nearly impossible to drive safely while following all the traffic laws. If the police want to nail you for something, they can follow you around for a while and probably get you. But at least you have a decent chance of knowing they're following, and they have to stop you the moment you commit the offense.
But the black box allows another approach. For whatever reason, the police decide they don't like you. Now they can pull your black box and check your driving history to find something - anything - at any time. And you may not even remember the event (that time you had to accelerate to avoid the deer - well you exceeded the speed limit and since you don't remember it you can't offer any defense).
Politicians and celebrities have to be on guard all the time because there is always some paparazzi or other camera on them. The rest of us don't want to live like that.
I often don't like the choices people make, but I like the fact that people make choices. That's why I'm a conservative.
Please. did you forget about the War on Drug Users? The ascendency of the religious right? Are you even aware of how many times Reagan raised taxes? Do you understand that his Reaganomics is responsible for the extreme economic inequality we are burdened with today?
Almost everything that is wrong with our government now can be traced back to Ronald Reagan.
Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
to commit immediate body cavity searches on all passengers, on remote GSM commands. The GSM access codes will be issued primarily to law enforcement agencies, but may also be outsourced to corporations who can show that they have a legitimate interest to penetrate peoples orifices in search for e.g. heinous violations of intellectual property. The law also provides an opt-out possibilty, providing takers with a handgun and a single bullet within 24 hours after requesting so.