Code Name, Theming Update Announced For Ubuntu 12.10

benfrog writes "In a blog post, Mark Shuttleworth announced some changes for Ubuntu 12.10 (due in October), including the code name (Quantal Quetzal — no, really) and a theme update. He said, 'That will kick off with a project on typography to make sure we are expressing ourselves with crystal clarity – making the most of Ubuntu’s Light and Medium font weights for a start. And a project on iconography, with the University of Reading, to refine the look of apps and interfaces throughout the platform. It’s amazing how quaint the early releases of Ubuntu look compared to the current style. And we’re only just getting started! In our artistic explorations we want to embrace tessellation as an expression of the part-digital, part-organic nature of Ubuntu.' Some other more meaningful announcements include a focus on the cloud in the server version and the lack of a transition from Upstart to systemd."

Comments

sounds like a dumb update

[laserdog]

id rather get half life 3 instead

"Quaint"

[lostmongoose]

What he calls 'quaint' I call 'usable.'

Re:"Quaint"

[MurukeshM]

I think he's referring to the artwork there. And I must agree. Some icons look a lot better now, and programs like update manager look a lot better, and cleaner. The current LightDM login screen is way cooler than the old GDM one. Though I can't make head or tail of the Software Centre's icon ,not at the size I usually see it (looks like a shopping bag or something?).

Re:"Quaint"

[Anonymous Coward]

MY biggest gripe with the ubuntu naming shenanigans is with Oneiric Ocelot. imo it wouda sounded much better with Opulent Octopus

Re:"Quaint"

[TheGoodNamesWereGone]

Indeed, what about embracing desktop functionality? I'd've modded you up but you were already at 5.

Re:"Quaint"

[Merk42]

Because if it's not functional/usable for you it must mean it's not functional/usable for anyone.

Re:"Quaint"

[Tarlus]

You mean, people didn't like Ubuntu's early "babyshit-brown" coloration? =)

Actually, I was very happily settled with Ubuntu during the early GNOME 2 days, and it's not like it ever took much effort to slap on a different wallpaper and load some different icons. I had GNOME 2 employ the KDE Plasma icon set, which looked quite nice.

Re:"Quaint"

[Anonymous Coward]

What he calls 'quaint' I call 'unusable.'

There, fixed it for ya!

Re:"Quaint"

[Larryish]

Mr. Shuttleworth, a moment if you will...

All the Ubuntu users that I know (x>0) want 8.04.4 interface with updated package versions.

Maybe you could package it as "Working Wombat".

The new "wishes-it-was-Windows-7-and-also-Mac" interface stands in the way of usability.

Thank you. Carry on.

Re:"Quaint"

[MurukeshM]

Sure, it was something *different* at first, but quickly became repulsive. When the violet (or whatever colour it is) came, it was quite a relief for the eyes. And sometimes small annoyances like having to change the looks drive one away to another distro. I switched to Mint simply because they package VLC and gnome-shell as part of the standard install. I hate the Mint theming, but its two less things for me to install, and I don't have to suffer Unity.

Re:"Quaint"

[allo]

i think you mean either crystal or oxygen, not plasma.

Re:"Quaint"

[allo]

the violet is ONLY the default wallpaper, nothing else. the rest is darkbrown, or the light variant which is still light(brown/grey/whatever)

Finally

[mikeken]

If they spend more time on the appearance, maybe I will actually enjoy Unity.

Re:Finally

[LurkerXXX]

Maybe if you have a tablet. It's a HUGE waste of space, extra mouse travel, and generally crappage on a desktop wiht a large monitor. I'm slowly moving all the machines I use to Linux Mint. Still Debian based, but with a sane interface for a desktop with a 24" monitor.

Re:Finally

[Chris Burke]

My problem with Unity isn't appearance (it's very pretty and slick looking), it's functionality.

In particular I'd like to single out the scroll bars as an abomination. I'm running Ubuntu Classic and I still can't get away from these fuckers. Not having the scroll bar appear unless I mouse over the little rectangle that appears to the left of where the scroll bar marker would be is god-awful. That the little rectangle appears inside the application window and thus can be obscured by, say, a same-colored selection rectangle (as happens in the file viewer, geeqie image viewer, and plenty of other apps) means I basically have to fucking *guess* where the scroll bar should be.

Is there an obvious "make scroll bars not retarded" option I'm missing? Is this shit supposed to be good on a tablet? Am I supposed to be glad that my desktop has a tablet interface?

I'm actually scared of upgrading my friend's desktop to a newer version of Ubuntu. He's computer illiterate and has been using Ubuntu more-or-less fine for several years now, but I know him and while I can tolerate even the most bone-headed of interface (I used old versions of Mentor Graphics for example) this shit is going to drive him insane and he'll stop using it.

Re:Finally

[mikeken]

Just an FYI, here is a link to remove the nasty default scrollbar in Ubuntu. It's one of the first things I do on a new install.

Re:Finally

[Artifex]

Does Linux Mint support installing to encrypted LVM, like the alt-ISO for Ubuntu does?
If it does, I'll give it a try.

Re:Finally

[Anonymous Coward]

Thanks! Worked like a charm!

Re:Finally

[kat_skan]

You can just uninstall the overlay-scrollbar package and you'll have normal scrollbars again.

Re:Finally

[pablomme]

Is there an obvious "make scroll bars not retarded" option I'm missing?

If only there was a tool to, like, search for stuff...

Re:Finally

[Roadmaster]

Yes, set LIBOVERLAY_SCROLLBAR=0.

http://www.webupd8.org/2011/04/how-to-disable-overlay-scrollbars-in.html

Hope it helps!

Re:Finally

[Anonymous Coward]

Not having the scroll bar appear unless I mouse over the little rectangle that appears to the left of where the scroll bar marker would be is god-awful.

The scrollbars in 12.04 also appear if you mouse over the right. The usability has been much improved from 11.10, though I must admit I never had much of a problem using them in the first place.

Re:Finally

[Anonymous Coward]

My problem with Unity isn't appearance (it's very pretty and slick looking), it's functionality.

In particular I'd like to single out the scroll bars as an abomination. I'm running Ubuntu Classic and I still can't get away from these fuckers. Not having the scroll bar appear unless I mouse over the little rectangle that appears to the left of where the scroll bar marker would be is god-awful. That the little rectangle appears inside the application window and thus can be obscured by, say, a same-colored selection rectangle (as happens in the file viewer, geeqie image viewer, and plenty of other apps) means I basically have to fucking *guess* where the scroll bar should be.

Is there an obvious "make scroll bars not retarded" option I'm missing? Is this shit supposed to be good on a tablet? Am I supposed to be glad that my desktop has a tablet interface?

I'm actually scared of upgrading my friend's desktop to a newer version of Ubuntu. He's computer illiterate and has been using Ubuntu more-or-less fine for several years now, but I know him and while I can tolerate even the most bone-headed of interface (I used old versions of Mentor Graphics for example) this shit is going to drive him insane and he'll stop using it.

Comments:
very nice post, i certainly love this website, keep on it

XAMTHONE PLUS

Re:Finally

[Svartormr]

I'm a Debian user but have installed Ubuntu in a previous workplace. I recently talked to a friend who runs IT for a small company. He's moved from Ubuntu to Linux Mint over the GNOME 3 and Unity interface changes. (I personally am using GNOME 3 in legacy mode with a few changes to avoid the changes.)

Re:Finally

[Anonymous Coward]

Does normal seeking in the scrollbar work again (middle-click) ?
Whose retard disabled seeking in a bar designed essentially to seek ?!

Re:Finally

[pablomme]

Does normal seeking in the scrollbar work again (middle-click) ?

It indeed does.

Whose retard disabled seeking in a bar designed essentially to seek ?!

I don't know who the owner of the retard in question is, sorry.

Re:Finally

[LurkerXXX]

It's not as automated, but it's still possible.

http://community.linuxmint.com/tutorial/view/344

Re:Finally

[Knuckles]

I can understand the thing about mouse travel (though it's in fact extremely keyboard compatible), and I also can understand other complaints people have. But waste of space, and a huge one? How so, when nearly all UI elements disappear when not used? (In 12.04, that is a user setting for the launcher, though)

Re:Finally

[Chris Burke]

Every time I go to google a way to fix the problems with Unity, I end up googling for other debian-based distros instead. Seems like the best way to fix all the issues in one fell swoop.

Re:Finally

[steveha]

I'm actually scared of upgrading my friend's desktop to a newer version of Ubuntu. He's computer illiterate and has been using Ubuntu more-or-less fine for several years now, but I know him and while I can tolerate even the most bone-headed of interface (I used old versions of Mentor Graphics for example) this shit is going to drive him insane and he'll stop using it.

I have been using an Ubuntu 11.10 computer with MATE installed, and I am happy with it. I have removed all the overlay-scrollbar packages and the result is a nice usable GNOME 2.x desktop.

http://mate-desktop.org/

Long-term, the future is probably Cinnamon, which is built on top of the new GNOME 3.x libraries but aims to duplicate the desktop features of GNOME 2.x.

http://cinnamon.linuxmint.com/

steveha

Re:Finally

[Anonymous Coward]

`I'm actually scared of upgrading my friend's desktop to a newer version of Ubuntu. He's computer illiterate and has been using Ubuntu more-or-less fine for several years now'

Give Lubuntu a try ...

Re:Finally

[mirix]

Still Debian based

I don't really understand this line of thought. People use Ubuntu, dislike it, then move to (K|X)buntu or Mint... What's wrong with plain old Debian?

I must be missing something.

Re:Finally

[Osgeld]

for me its the install process, the others its 1 disc and its like 90% of what I need already there in record time, debian wants to reach out for every single thing and when you have a shit internet (like I have 1Mbs) just getting a base system installed with a command prompt can turn into a couple hours

I would rather use debian, I am rather fond of it ... though I would rather just get an os on the machine and go about whatever it was I wanted to do

Re:Finally

[Anonymous Coward]

I use Debian myself because it is reliable and simple. But it is not without issues.

The software is old, old, old, old. Even with testing.

Re:Finally

[steveha]

I don't really understand this line of thought. People use Ubuntu, dislike it, then move to (K|X)buntu or Mint... What's wrong with plain old Debian?

The Debian installer doesn't work as a live CD. I don't know where you can go to get a live CD with a standard Debian system on it and a GUI desktop that Just Works.

The Debian installer doesn't sort out all your hardware as well as the Ubuntu installer does. I have several laptops and I can boot an Ubuntu disc on any of them, and a GUI comes up with WiFi working. I am able to install Debian, but it would need to be with the laptop plugged in to a wired network, so I could manually install packages for the WiFi stuff until it works.

While I know a lot of people seem to hate PulseAudio, I want it running. With Ubuntu you just get it; with Debian you need to sort it out yourself.

Before "Unity" I could basically install Ubuntu and be productive right away. Now there is a step where I have to disable Unity and set up some other desktop, but that's still easier than installing Debian and fixing everything.

On the other hand, for servers, I run Debian Stable and I have for many years now. Rock solid reliable, and none of the above issues matter. (If I need to boot a server from a live CD, I can just use the Ubuntu one. But my servers are reliable and I basically never need to do that.)

steveha

Re:Finally

[Electricity Likes Me]

The real mystery is why is stuff like this never on a GUI settings menu. There always is one, but it usually fails to be any good at configuring anything.

Re:Finally

[LingNoi]

http://www.debian.org/

Where is the download now button? It's just masses and masses of documentation and that's why no one wants to use Debian because it's just a complete mess of policy and other bureaucracy that wastes your time.

Re:Finally

[Anonymous Coward]

This is not a mystery. They're convinced you should never change such things. It's really that simple.

Re:Finally

[garvon]

I like a faster release cycle. A kid can be born and make it to elementary school between Debian releases. I like 6 month releases cycles.

Re:Finally

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't care about the installer so much although all the archaic shit you get asked during install does seem pretty "90s", but really it's just as another poster put it the software is old, old, old, old. Ubuntu at least makes an attempt to stay current and relevant.

Re:Finally

[Anonymous Coward]

You're missing that part where Debian stable uses packages older than the Internet itself, testing is unsupported and unstable is frequently broken.

So yeah, you're missing a few things actually. Like a working frontal lobe.

Re:Finally

[mikael_j]

There is a Debian Live CD you can use.

Re:Finally

[Anonymous Coward]

Same, and all the newer stuff in repo. Again, all stuff you could do to Debian, but Mint gets me where I'm going anyways, right quick. Saves me a ton of, "oh crap, yeah and that".

Re:Finally

[Anonymous Coward]

The download button is at top right.

Re:Finally

[vinayg18]

I've made peace with Unity by forcing the side-bar to be permanently hidden, and relying on Synapse (It's a Gnome-DO alternative) to access applications and files. Works for me!

Re:Finally

[Robert Zenz]

sudo apt-get remove overlay-scrollbar-thingy-please-look-up-name-with-apt-cache-search

Re:Finally

[0100010001010011]

I haven't installed from 'disk' since I don't know when. My router boots to a netboot install on a TFTP server. I have an apt-cacher-ng server running on my server also.

I can have a new debian installed in almost no time.

Re:Finally

[0100010001010011]

It's not exactly "Download" But "Getting Debian" is a pretty close.

Re:Finally

[Anonymous Coward]

Then you need to figure out what cd or dvd to download, firstly figuring out why there are so damned many to choose from.

Re:Finally

[Compaqt]

Turning off weird scrollbars is a GUI config option in the Precise Pangolin Live CD I looked at. It's somewhere in Appearance, I think.

Re:Finally

[0100010001010011]

Not sure if serious or just that stupid:
Use Internet to download additional files during installation.
Useful when the install target has no Internet connection.

You also have at least as many options on the Ubuntu download page:

http://ubuntu.virginmedia.com/releases//precise/

Re:Finally

[Anne Thwacks]

The FIRST rule of GUI design is that you DO NOT hide the navigation controls.

There is absolutely no way you can provide phone support for your cousins in Arkansas if they cant see what you are telling them about. Its just too time consuming! And there is no way I am going to Arkansas with the present TSA regime in force.

Re:Finally

[Knuckles]

I don't want to discuss this. I was only interested in the claimed waste of space. (Anyway, I don't think that you can say that - every GUI hides controls, because otherwise it would show them all, all the time, which no GUI does)

Re:Finally

[Electricity Likes Me]

And yet that's like 3 versions after they were first introduced, since literally every instruction tutorial for earlier versions goes "apt get remove --purge ..." something.

Re:Finally

[Stuarticus]

Debian default installs are quite ugly, they also provide a very complicated variety of installation methods, which is great if you need them all, trying to wade through them to find the one your looking for is pretty arduous for beginners.

I also had some problems with my graphics card with every one I tried (Radeon HD 6870).

I was seriously considering switching to Debian for my home install after the Unity debacle, but while I would always use it on a server, it just doesn't seem right for an everyday desktop. On Mint with MATE just now, and it's not bad, but I'm no longer sure what I'd recommend for someone who wanted to try out linux :-/

Re:Finally

[silentcoder]

I used Debian long, long ago - a while back when moving from Ubuntu I considered it instead of LinuxMint but I ran into a problem.
Not having been actively following it - I found there was nowhere I could easily determine which codename refers to which branch - or even what the right choice for a desktop would be.
Testing or Unstable ? And what are their names these days - which is which ?

After half and hour of digging and failing to find the information to know what I ought to download ... I gave up and installed LinuxMint Ubuntu. I did try Mint Debian but it annoyed me - a lot (was several months ago though - I honestly cannot remember what exactly it did that annoyed me).

Re:Finally

[Artifex]

Thanks for the link!

Re:Finally

[sensei moreh]

It doesn't say "download now," but rather "Download Debian 6.0." Anyone who can't recognize that these two phrases are so similar as to be functionally synonymous probably shouldn't be using Debian. To be fair, it's possible that the GP just didn't see the download button.

Re:Finally

[sensei moreh]

Either Xubuntu or Lubuntu might work well for him. Xubuntu is definitely closer to GNOME2 in terms of features and functionality; if your friend is uses/needs that extra functionality, I'd not upgrade him to Lubuntu.

Re:Finally

[Anonymous Coward]

There are also several live USB creators that can take dozens of different distro ISOs including deb. Debian is really fanastic and is 95% of what makes Ubuntu, ubuntu.

Re:Finally

[metalgamer84]

Seriously?

Center of the page under Getting Started, the first link is "obtain a copy".

Perhaps Debian isn't for you if you cant navigate the homepage.

Re:Finally

[Anonymous Coward]

You obviously haven't used OS X 10.7 Lion yet, have you?

Re:Finally

[TheLink]

I did propose this for "phone support": http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/29001/

A possible advantage of that interface is it could also allow "advanced" users to do stuff more quickly, maybe even faster than with a conventional CLI.

Re:Finally

[Vegemeister]

I would prefer Debian. It's on all my servers and laptops. But my primary workstation runs Ubuntu, because Debian's font rendering is ugly as sin.

Re:Finally

[Hatta]

Why not give plain Debian a try? Encrypted LVM and RAID are supported by the debian installer. The packages in Sid are just as up to date as the packages in Mint.

Re:Finally

[Chris Burke]

No. Is that what Unity is copying? Does it suck balls as a desktop interface too?

Re:Finally

[gshegosh]

I can use PPAs with Ubuntu derivatives and not with Debian. For a lazy asshole such as me it's a deciding advantage.

Re:Finally

[Tarlus]

Is that what Unity is copying? Does it suck balls as a desktop interface too?

No. Yes.

10.7 thinned the scrollbar and removed the arrows altogether, and by default it auto-hides (though this can be disabled). It's a part of the whole OSX/iOS blur they're trying to do.

Re:Finally

[unixisc]

Does Debian recognize Wi Fi out of the box? Reason I can imagine people having a problem w/ Debian is that due to their non inclusion of 'non-free' software in their repos, and making one go online to get it, one may not get all the things that one needs. And if the network connectivity ain't there, that's even more problematic. If Debian focussed on just getting these 2 things right, they'd be just fine.

Incidentally, is Debian still Linux only, or is kFreeBSD ready? What's their status on Hurd?

First

[ripdajacker]

The code names are just priceless

Re:First

[hondo77]

If by "priceless" you mean "gay", yes.

Re:First

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually I find them to be really stupid.

  Hey, you voiced your opinion, I can voice mine (just didn't feel like logging in)!

Re:First

[Black Parrot]

The code names are just priceless

I'm eagerly awaiting zaftig zebu.

Re:First

[SteveFoerster]

No, that would be Queer Quetzal.

Re:First

[Anonymous Coward]

And is there anything wrong with the code names being happy?

Re:First

[sco08y]

The code names are just priceless

They certainly aren't clever, endearing, appealing, interesting, useful, memorable, straightforward, likable, notable, distinctive, marketable or easy to spell.

About the only redeeming quality they have is that they bring up that version in a search engine, so they aren't entirely useless, but again, you have to get the spelling right. It's actually frustrating reading it over the phone.

Open Source has always struggled with naming things in ways that aren't patently terrible, like the whole tradition of Something's Not Something Else.

But I think Ubuntu has managed to set the bar even lower.

Re:First

[Artifex]

If by "priceless" you mean "gay", yes.

You think they're fabulous?

Re:First

[Knuckles]

Actually I find them to be really stupid.

They are fantastic for google efficiency.

Re:First

[Bucky24]

They are fantastic for google efficiency.

Eh. To be honest I usually just google the version number. I can't remember the code names (And I damn sure won't be able to remember this one).

Re:First

[Anonymous Coward]

how original

Re:First

[X0563511]

Indeed. I hate the damn code-names.

"Hurr! This guide is for Remissive Rat!" - so what the fuck version are you talking about?

Re:First

[binarylarry]

Actually it was a few releases back, Ubuntu 8.04 Hairy Hardon.

Re:First

[Anonymous Coward]

Back at M, friends and I quietly hoped for 'Mighty Mouse'. Meanwhile, we talk about 10.04LTS, 11.04 as the day Ubuntu died, 11.10 as a zombie tablet wannabe from hell, and Mint as what we're going to if 12.04 sucks balls as badly as the last two revisions.

Reading Shuttleworth's quoted stuff above makes me want to gouge my nerdly grey matter out with a melon scoop: what the hell is an interior decorator doing selecting the story content for slashdot!? I hate Red Hat with the fury of a thousand rpm hells but can't win an argument against them with PHB's demanding enterprise traits from their business linux vendor without someone else (... other than Larry Ellison. Please.) doing a business-oriented job of showing up, garnering compatibility certifications, and painting a tolerable vision of their OS. Yeah, I know I've got Deb and BSD, but some people want support contracts and certifications beyond their fungible, fireable, foolish little IT team.

Re:First

[Anonymous Coward]

OTOH, zaftig zsa zsa could be amusing...

Re:First

[unixisc]

How about Zigzaging Zebras?

Re:First

[gl4ss]

Actually I find them to be really stupid.

They are fantastic for google efficiency.

this newest one sure isn't... though probably soon enough you can write "quuer" and get the "Showing search results for the latest ubuntu..".

Re:First

[Knuckles]

It isn't?

Re:First

[Tarlus]

Wasted Wombat?

oblig. Red v Blue

[History's Coming To]

Didn't I tell you to quit making up animals?

Re:oblig. Red v Blue

[Anonymous Coward]

Sorry Sarge...but I am looking forward to Wildass Warthog

Completely irrelevent to me

[msobkow]

Ubuntu 10.04.2 inherited a GTK problem which has persisted through every release since; it's in the Debian code base as well.

Some random time after logging in to a Gnome session, mouse clicks get lost (usually within 30 seconds to 5 minutes of login.) Not just clicks on menus or windows, but all mouse clicks. KDE, however, works fine. So do the lesser known non-GTK desktops that I've played with.

Unfortunately, the bug surfaces almost immediately in GTK-based installers such as provided by Ubuntu, Kubuntu, and Debian. Which means that even getting an install done requires that you use the text mode installer (which is muy painful.)

At this point the only installation I've found that I can use is Fedora's KDE edition.

On the bright side, it's another year before 10.04.1 drops from the support list and I have to upgrade.

The problem occurs on an ASUS P5QL Pro mobo, my friend's Acer laptop with trackpad, and a buddy's HP laptop with trackpad.

Doesn't anyone test any more?

(And no, despite years of C/C++ programming, I have absolutely no interest in finding and fixing the problem myself. I have other work to do. I'm content with the simple "workaround" of dropping Ubuntu and GTK based systems, particularly as I hate Gnome 3 with a passion.)

Re:Completely irrelevent to me

[dirtyhippie]

Some random time after logging in to a Gnome session, mouse clicks get lost (usually within 30 seconds to 5 minutes of login.) Not just clicks on menus or windows, but all mouse clicks. KDE, however, works fine. So do the lesser known non-GTK desktops that I've played with.

[[citaiton needed]]

I have my problems with Gnome, but I've never experienced this bug.

Much more likely, you have some sort of hardware problem that happens to manifest itself with gnome but not KDE.

Sounds a lot less dramatic that way.

Re:Completely irrelevent to me

[pablomme]

Doesn't anyone test any more?

Having installed Ubuntu 10.04-12.04 on about 10 different machines I've never seen the problem you mention.

And no, despite years of C/C++ programming, I have absolutely no interest in finding and fixing the problem myself.

You could report a bug though, which would likely get fixed by the time you say you'll upgrade from 10.04.

Re:Completely irrelevent to me

[Anonymous Coward]

never encountered this problem
never heard of this problem

maybe you should take ur ubuntu install back to the point of sale and demand a refund

Re:Completely irrelevent to me

[Randle_Revar]

>GTK-based installers such as
>have to upgrade

Why the hell are you "upgrading" Debian-based distros with an installer?

Re:Completely irrelevent to me

[Anonymous Coward]

Something is wrong with your hardware, dumbass

Shiat, go back to Windows, idiot

Re:Completely irrelevent to me

[X0563511]

That said, they've done stupid shit before.

Once upon a time, they made a change to shave off about 1 second from boot time. The cost? USB keyboards only! No AT or PS2 for you! ... that really pissed me off, and that's when I departed from using Ubuntu. (note, this was a few years back)

Re:Completely irrelevent to me

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm using a PS/2 keyboard and mouse right now. On the latest Ubuntu.

Re:Completely irrelevent to me

[LingNoi]

> You could report a bug though, which would likely get fixed by the time you say you'll upgrade from 10.04.

With ubuntu this has never been my experience. Instead it gets ignored and you get bothered every 5 months to a year being asked "does it work on the latest version"? and I'm not talking about stuff that only effects me, i'm talking about stuff that anyone could take 5 minutes to test if it works themselves but they don't.

That and the fact that Ubuntu rejects bugs that are upstream bugs. No, filing bugs in launchpad is totally useless waste of anyone's time because they never look at them.

Re:Completely irrelevent to me

[X0563511]

No shit, it was fixed (because I reported the bug). That wasn't my point. My point was a jab at the mindset that allows developers to do things for the sake of a second shorter boot, but not test it properly or think it through (it would have been obvious if it occurred to the dev that not every keyboard was USB)

Re:Completely irrelevent to me

[Anonymous Coward]

They probably don't have access to your particular setup to test it with. If a particular bug only shows up with a particular combination of hardware, why should a developer who probably doesn't even get paid, buy the hardware combination to test out the bug when you could take a few minutes out of your "busy" schedule to test it?

Heck, they may have even tested it out on other hardware/software combinations to see if it works and they want to get feedback from you, the reporter of the bug, to see if it is fixed for you...

Re:Completely irrelevent to me

[hawkinspeter]

I'm fine with that kind of forward thinking decision. If you're installing a new distro on old hardware that uses a PS2 mouse and keyboard, it's easy enough to grab a spare USB one and plug it in.

If your hardware doesn't support USB, then maybe a modern distro isn't the right choice for it.

Re:Completely irrelevent to me

[Anne Thwacks]

Maybe in America, but it won't work in Sierra Leone.

You America-centric dykes are a bunch of scum.

Re:Completely irrelevent to me

[Anonymous Coward]

Nice counter-attack! 'My anecdote trumps yours', supported by 'If $PART_OF_LINUX does not work, it's a hardware problem'.

Re:Completely irrelevent to me

[pablomme]

With ubuntu this has never been my experience. Instead it gets ignored and you get bothered every 5 months to a year being asked "does it work on the latest version"?

I've reported plenty of bugs to Launchpad. Sometimes bugs do get ignored, others get fixed immediately. It depends on the nature of the bug - Canonical isn't known for being a major developing force in the Linux kernel area, for example, but I reported a couple of bugs against the HUD feature a few months ago and they indeed got fixed, which involved going back to the design team and then to developers. They have a good workflow set up, but as a distribution with finite developing manpower they can't possibly fix everything. I wish Launchpad had automatic upstreaming for certain packages (especially those in Universe), but for packages in Main I can't complain.

Linux users (and that extends to most Free/Open Source software users) tend to have this annoying sense of entitlement that unnecessarily stresses relations with developers and turns everything into a flamewar. "Why doesn't MY bug get fixed?", ignoring how many OTHER bugs (likely of broader importance) get fixed, "Why don't you do this THIS way?", without bothering to consider that there might be an underlying design principle, or that your preferences represent those of a minority. My favourite is "That's it, I'm moving to Mint/back to Windows". Good riddance. Only in most cases they don't -- empty threats are a valid way of seeking attention, apparently.

Re:Completely irrelevent to me

[hawkinspeter]

I don't mind the "scum" or even the "dykes" (although I'm the wrong gender for that to apply), but I draw the line at "America-centric". I'm British and although we're often considered to be the 51st state, we're on a completely different continent.

Re:Completely irrelevent to me

[LingNoi]

I don't understand how someone could read this..

> I'm not talking about stuff that only effects me, i'm talking about stuff that anyone could take 5 minutes to test

and say this..

> They probably don't have access to your particular setup to test it with.

There have been plenty of times when UI bugs that effect EVERYONE get these kinds of responses. Not all problems are hardware problems.

Simple example.. Default config misconfigured.. do I REALLY need to test that someone changed the value in the default config to the correct setting every ubuntu release? or perhaps the person copying and pasting in the triage line to check it out instead of wasting everyones time.

Re:Completely irrelevent to me

[LingNoi]

> Linux users (and that extends to most Free/Open Source software users) tend to have this annoying sense of entitlement that unnecessarily stresses relations with developers and turns everything into a flamewar. "Why doesn't MY bug get fixed?"

No, just no. I've filed bugs, committed code and developers have rejected the merges, i have made fixes that many people asked for but it something they disagreed with ideologically, and refused to pull. These people waste MY time because rather then say "we don't think that's a bug and we'll never accept something that fixes it", instead they lead people on with "why don't you submit a patch", then it's "not enough test cases", etc until it's finally just ignored.

Sorry but everything you said is bullshit, time and time again I have been leaded on by "@ubuntu.com" users on launchpad either "does it work in this release", submitting patches that end up rejected instead of just saying they'll never accept that, and bugs there were simply ignored that I simply won't waste my time there anymore. Ubuntu is great and I use it but i'll never go back to launchpad.

You sound like the typical apologist that's never strongly participated in contributions from the outside, because you wouldn't be saying what you're saying otherwise. I've contributed to many different open source projects but I never experienced the total lack of care if something gets fixed or not as I have with "@ubuntu.com" users on launchpad.

Many people have this same exact experience, it's not something you can just handwave away.

Re:Completely irrelevent to me

[msobkow]

I do plan on filing a bug report. It wasn't until last week that I finally narrowed down the problem to a GTK issue so I'd know where to report the bug.

I had reported the problem last year to Ubuntu, but got no response or progress, and based on it's continued appearance in GTK-based installers and desktops, it clearly hasn't been addressed (i.e. the bug was submitted to the wrong project.)

That's the one frustrating thing about open source. You have to at least do enough debugging to identify which software component is causing the problem before you can even report that there is a problem.

Re:Completely irrelevent to me

[msobkow]

Everyone says "hardware problem."

Why do you think I kept trying to test it on different machines? Had it only been my box, I'd have assumed hardware (and did for many months.) But two other boxes from completely different manufacturers are affected as well. There is nothing in common between the three systems in terms of chipsets, CPU, or I/O devices.

Re:Completely irrelevent to me

[drinkypoo]

The system updater which actually upgrades to the new release does slightly more than apt-get will. Why this should be necessary I have no idea but updating sources.list and running apt-get hasn't been the official way to upgrade Ubuntu for several versions

Re:Completely irrelevent to me

[the real darkskye]

do-release-upgrade works just fine. YMMV.

Re:Completely irrelevent to me

[Anonymous Coward]

I have done perhaps a dozen installs of Ubuntu v10.4.x on several different machines and not encountered this "lost mouse click bug". Nor seen anything written about it, until parent post.

Since parent post says the bug is repeatable on several different machines with very different hardware, and occurs with several different (though related) OS, it clearly exists. And it clearly exists in some part of the system that is common to all these different environments.

Which means without a doubt the bug is in the common human interface to all these installs. It is PEBKAC. Or in less antiquated terminology: "You are doing it wrong."

More than likely, the human installer is drawing on his vast experience with systems and programming to read into some simple instruction an esoteric meaning that no one else would ever recognize, let alone consider to be what was meant. This could possibly be another case of a systems technician who has been educated beyond his level of competence.

Re:Completely irrelevent to me

[Anonymous Coward]

To repeat myself, the glaring commonality is the computer technician who attempted all these different failed installs.

And after this parent post, it is very clear that this is an example of a computer technician who has been educated beyond his level of competence, AND has the inflated ego "I can do no wrong" attitude that so often accompanies the syndrome.

Re:Completely irrelevent to me

[drinkypoo]

do-release-upgrade works just fine. YMMV.

Is it automated? Can I issue one command and walk away? My understanding is that there's a prompt. I want to schedule it to happen "at 0100" or similar because I have a crap network connection and I share it with another human.

Re:Completely irrelevent to me

[msobkow]

Bug report filed with bugzilla.gnome.org.

Re:Completely irrelevent to me

[columbus]

I don't know why this is modded funny. How about informative instead? The parent's experiences in lodging bugs in launchpad against Ubuntu pretty much correspond with my own.

I don't want to rag on Ubuntu too much because I think they have done great things hardware auto-detection, proprietary driver install & generally advancing public acceptance of Linux on the desktop.

But the way they handle bugs can use improvement. The standard reply of 'does the problem still reproduce if you try it in version x+1?' is not good enough. Because Ubuntu is aggressive about building new features into new versions there is a ton of code churn. Even if the original problem disappears in version x+1, the code churn practically guarantees that a bunch of new bugs are introduced. It turns into a game of whack-a-mole where the overall quality of the Ubuntu OS tends to maintain a steady state or even decline as new versions are progressively introduced.

Fix your bugs in the version in which they are reported. If you don't like backporting that much code than reduce the scope of what you attempt in each release, reduce the code churn, spend more time testing & reduce the number of bugs that you introduce with each new version.

Just my 2 cents.

Re:Completely irrelevent to me

[allo]

yes/no. You can type it, hit enter and it will download all files. Then it will ask "last chance to stop" and you need to hit enter another time.

so you can download at 0100 and install later.

Re:Completely irrelevent to me

[drinkypoo]

Well, that is retarded, but at least it's not as retarded as I thought.

Unfortunately I still need to issue the command manually, or use Expect. Should have done it last night but I had other things on my mind.

What?

[identity0]

>part-digital, part-organic nature of Ubuntu.'

Don't tell me they're going to make my desktop start smelling brown, too....

I actually like the fact that Ubuntu is very organized and providing a direction for Linux desktops, but their UI choices have been idiosyncratic, to say the least.

But, I like Fedora....

[Anonymous Coward]

 

Quite different...

[pushing-robot]

They've released a few screenshots demonstrating the cleaner, lighter typeface and refined iconography.

Re:Quite different...

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh that is plug-ugly. That decides it, I'm moving to mint.

Re:Quite different...

[LordLucless]

Those are Windows 8 screenshots. GP is trolling.

Re:Quite different...

[Anonymous Coward]

whoosh!

Re:Quite different...

[Anonymous Coward]

At least that's still nowhere near as hideous as Windows 8 will be. Can you imagine if Microsoft designed the whole UI like that? People would flock to Mac/Linux in droves! At least they have the sensibility to not do something dumb like relegate the traditional desktop to app status and make that the new default...right?

Re:Quite different...

[Anonymous Coward]

That's not the sound a non-obvious fucking shitty joke makes.

Re:Quite different...

[Ambvai]

I actually kind of like the typeface used in the new Windows stuff. While I think it's being overused and the capitalization (or lackthereof) bugs me, it isn't inherently horrible. *coughComicSans*

Re:Quite different...

[crutchy]

i thought it was funny actually, and win8 icons look worse than pubic hair around a shower drain

Ubuntu + MATE

[SteveFoerster]

I don't like Unity either, but my plan for 12.04 is to keep Ubuntu, with which I'm otherwise still satisfied, and install MATE. There's no reason to throw out the baby with the bathwater.

Re:Ubuntu + MATE

[Anonymous Coward]

fvwm2 4ever!

Re:Ubuntu + MATE

[Osgeld]

save yourself the time and just install xubuntu (XFCE)

Re:Ubuntu + MATE

[Anonymous Coward]

You don't even need to reinstall, just

        apt-get install xubuntu-desktop

on top of your existing installation, then logout and select Xubuntu from the session menu.

I did this mostly because Unity tends to suck up more RAM over extended periods than my desktop has and everything grinds. If compiz wasn't such a resource hog I'd keep using it, because Unity is pretty good otherwise.

Also, it's not for a tablet, Unity has a whole bunch of buttons smaller than a finger can reasonably touch. It's just the launcher that looks touch-friendly, and they did admit to designing that one particular component to be touch-friendly.

Re:Ubuntu + MATE

[Anonymous Coward]

The "baby" is Debian. If you want to throw out the bathwater, just go back to that.

Re:Ubuntu + MATE

[unixisc]

The bathwater is Unity, and the sud is GNOME3.

Re:Ubuntu + MATE

[RDW]

save yourself the time and just install xubuntu (XFCE)

MATE is very quick and easy to install on Ubuntu, including 12.04:

http://www.howtogeek.com/110052/how-to-install-the-mate-desktop-go-back-to-gnome-2-on-ubuntu/

Xfce is another good choice, though. If you start with a standard Ubuntu and just add the xfce4 package rather than installing Xubuntu, you end up with something quite similar to Ubuntu before Unity - most of the Gnome apps work well under xfce, and you get the standard default selection of software rather than 'lightweight' alternatives (LibreOffice instead of Abiword/Gnumeric, etc.).

Re:Ubuntu + MATE

[metalgamer84]

Indeed, thats what I did a few versions ago. Although, im still toying with Lubuntu as well.

The next year's release...

[troff]

... should be called "Somersaulting Shark"?

Re:The next year's release...

[treeves]

That's the version after the next. The next should be Regressive Rodent.

Re:The next year's release...

[Anonymous Coward]

Somersaulting Shark

Aren't you forgetting a letter?

Re:The next year's release...

[Anonymous Coward]

The one after somersaulting shark should be tainted tiger

Re:The next year's release...

[interkin3tic]

I think they should focus on bringing it onto all platforms, from ipads to the nintendo wii. They should call it "Slutty Squirrel."

Re:The next year's release...

[Anonymous Coward]

Unlikely. People have actually heard of both of those words. My guess it'll be something like Refnariius Rubugliouiaoie

Re:The next year's release...

[Anonymous Coward]

Not even the the old, overused Masturbating Monkey stings as hard as that one.

Re:The next year's release...

[Anonymous Coward]

Raping Rhino?

Re:The next year's release...

[Anonymous Coward]

"Singing Shark", surely.

Meh, Software Center

[Artifex]

I dumped that for Synaptic Package Manager as soon as I could.
Don't need to be loading lots of graphics and junk on my lightweight netbook when I'm just trying to manage packages through a menu.

Re:Meh, Software Center

[Anonymous Coward]

How did you do that? I may actually do it since their thing seems to be very slow.

Re:Meh, Software Center

[tepples]

Does sudo apt-get install synaptic work?

Re:Meh, Software Center

[Nerdfest]

You can also install it through the software manager.

Re:Meh, Software Center

[thelamecamel]

The software centre took forever to load in 11.10, but is waaaaay faster in 12.04. It's actually usable now and I prefer it to Synaptic for my simple needs because the installations are handled by a daemon: you can start something installing, queue up a bunch more installations, close the GUI, and it will keep downloading/installing everything in the background.

Re:Meh, Software Center

[clarkn0va]

My biggest gripe with the Software Centre is that not everything is in there. Try searching it for apache.

Re:Meh, Software Center

[niftydude]

My biggest gripe with the Software Centre is that not everything is in there. Try searching it for apache.

I know - it only shows up if you search for "apache2" and even then - none of the additional plugin components show. What the ...?

I tend to mostly use "apt-cache search" and "apt-get" for my needs these days. Still faster to find and install what you are looking for than either synaptic or Software Centre.

Re:Meh, Software Center

[unixisc]

For Apache, don't you have to search for httpd?

I had problems w/ Synaptic - it would normally do a bad job installing apps I had just downloaded. For tarballs, just forget it. This was under an RHEL based distro, which is why any RHEL distro is out of the question for me.

Re:Meh, Software Center

[Waldeinburg]

That is not true. If you search for apache, you have to click "Show 493 technical items" afterwards, which is reasonable for a desktop system. What is not reasonable is the sorting; the apache2 package is obviously what the user is searching for, but it is way down in the list.

Re:Meh, Software Center

[Compaqt]

Yeah, that's why it's also known as RHell.

Re:Meh, Software Center

[clarkn0va]

To be fair, I've never tried to install apache from USC. However, I do run a Skills competition, and in four years I've yet to see a competitor (and a member of my technical committee) succeed in doing so; we always end up nudging them toward another package manager if they don't figure this out themselves. So if it's there, it's well enough hidden as to make it effectively useless in my observations.

Re:Meh, Software Center

[clarkn0va]

Fortunately for me I was led into Debian and apt-get before Ubuntu existed, and before I had ever heard of Synaptic. Synaptic is a decent tool and I've used it from time to time, but USC has yet to win me over. The one thing it seems to do okay at is when it is launched by the browser after downloading a .deb package, making the install quick and effortless.

Re:Meh, Software Center

[clarkn0va]

Fortunately for me I was led into Debian for my first taste of Linux and I've ever honoured that gift by not since hating myself with anything rpm-based.

Re:Meh, Software Center

[MonsterTrimble]

+1. It was a mess at the start but REALLY came together for the last version. I still have synaptic for when I need to go hunting for something extremely specific but it has fallen by the wayside. I even use it on my Celeron-era laptop - it's that quick.

Forgot obligatory disclaimer

[SteveFoerster]

Not that there's anything wrong with that.

I can't wait

[skipkent]

I can't wait for the release of Ubuntu Varicose Veins

I stopped installing stupidly named software

[NemoinSpace]

Not because I don't think it's cool and all that. I just tend to forget what half these otherwise useful programs are for after awhile.
Libre Office is hanging on by a thread though.

Re:I stopped installing stupidly named software

[Anonymous Coward]

Because 12.10 is a stupid name?

Seriously folks, it's an internal code name just like Fox body for the old Ford Mustangs. It's not _the_ name, get over it.

Re:I stopped installing stupidly named software

[NemoinSpace]

No, because Ubuntu, Quantal, and Quetzal are stupid names (among others). I am over it, I already stated I don't install this crap anymore.
BTW I used to have a '65 Stang, and I always thought the later "Fox body" moniker was a bit goofy itself. -p.s not that seriously. - relax.

Re:I stopped installing stupidly named software

[X0563511]

Right, because they totally don't use the "internal" code name on, well, everything.

Re:I stopped installing stupidly named software

[Anonymous Coward]

I agree the name is stupid, but it may be a joke having to do with 2012 (possible doom?) and the Quetzal depicted in the Denver Airport mural. The bird in the mural is decidedly "in between" states, but perhaps soon to be quantal? And perhaps a reflection of where Ubuntu stands now?

Re:I stopped installing stupidly named software

[serviscope_minor]

I stopped installing stupidly named software

So... I guess you didn't install mountain lion, longhorn or blackcomb either? Tell me, what operating system do you use?

unity...

[crutchy]

...looks like something a dog shit out after eating its own shit

i'll stick with squeeze/gnome2

Re:unity...

[Anonymous Coward]

you don't like it. right?

Re:unity...

[X0563511]

Indeed. I wish they would stop "fixing" what isn't broken. Even KDE is pushing it lately, for me.

I don't think this is a poison specific to Ubuntu or GNOME, it seems to be everywhere.

What am I supposed to do? Stop updating? Pretend it's still the last decade?

It's like everyone's trying to become the Next Big Thing as far as interfaces go, but the hardware is lagging seriously behind (eg, this stuff would be awesome on holographic tablets a-la science fiction games).

Re:unity...

[basecastula]

i think there is a tint2 script for that.

Re:unity...

[crutchy]

...and then there was bash

Re:unity...

[Osgeld]

I feel your pain, Ubuntu went nutty so I switched to mint. Mint 10 just ended support this month, 11 and its implementation of gnome 2 is half broken and 12 uses gnome 3, which is perfect for my 2Ghz AGP workbench machine. Theres mint LXDE, but I dont like LXDE is disjointed as a DM, so I finally settled down on xubuntu (XFCE) runs fine, nice DM, up to date for a while too

Re:unity...

[Electricity Likes Me]

Don't kid yourself: holographic tablets, in fact all computer interfaces as seen in entertainment - are garbage. They exist specifically to be incomprehensible to the audience, so you don't have to fill out everything that's on there, yet they always seem highly functional because the plot demands them to be.

Re:unity...

[X0563511]

How is it that an interface that can restructure itself on the fly supposed to be garbage? Sure, it would suck if you were just waving at air - but these interfaces are also said or hinted to have some kind of tactile feedback. Some canon even goes so far as to explain it via force fields or whatnot.

Like I said, far off in the future if ever, but it seems everyone wants interfaces to start behaving that way now.

Re:unity...

[Electricity Likes Me]

Well I was speaking more towards "things which look like computers on TV" then anything else, but the point also stands: using an interface for an extended period where your arms aren't resting on something to be supported becomes extremely tiresome. It's also impractical to have a touchscreen desktop monitor for pretty much the same reasons.

There are very good reasons most interfaces have lasted as long as they have (i.e. the computer mouse).

Re:unity...

[massysett]

Just use software that shares your philosophy, where updates don't remake the whole software package. Go with one of the less well-known window managers like Openbox or FVWM or even a minor desktop like XFCE. Build workflows around old mature tools like shells and terminals rather than graphical file managers. There are lots of projects that are not trying to become the next big thing, but none of them are associated with KDE, GNOME, or Ubuntu.

Re:unity...

[X0563511]

Well, I'm halfway there. The GUI I tend to use only when it's needed to convey information (eg a graphics editor, videos, games etc). Moving files around, editing configuration files, system maintenance etc - I tend to do all this in a terminal.

The trouble is that Openbox etc are TOO minimal. I can function, but not happily. XFCE seems to be the happy medium, in my case.

Damnit I lost the pool!

[Virtucon]

I had "Probing Penis"

Re:Damnit I lost the pool!

[Anonymous Coward]

Pathetic Panda

Shopping bag means an app store nowadays

[tepples]

If it looks like a shopping bag, that's exactly what it's supposed to resemble. The icons for Google Play Store (formerly Android Market) and AppsLib also look like shopping bags.

Re:Shopping bag means an app store nowadays

[camperdave]

"Google Play", now there's a bad name. True, I have some game apps on my phone, but the bulk of the apps I want are not for play. I would think that it also undercuts the business phone market, and "serious app" development.

Re:Shopping bag means an app store nowadays

[tepples]

I agree that "Google Play Store" is a brand fail, but at least it covers more than "Android Market". "Android Market" covers two categories (Android apps and Android games), while "Google Play Store" covers three (Android games, movie rentals for Android or PC, and music for Android or PC).

Re:Shopping bag means an app store nowadays

[camperdave]

I agree that "Google Play Store" is a brand fail, but at least it covers more than "Android Market". "Android Market" covers two categories (Android apps and Android games), while "Google Play Store" covers three (Android games, movie rentals for Android or PC, and music for Android or PC).

There's no reason why movie rentals and music can't be covered by "Android Market". However, that name would eliminate the "or PC" segment that you mention.

Re:Shopping bag means an app store nowadays

[allo]

you do not need to restrict the brand android to the handy-os. Android-Apps for PC could just be normal PC-Programs.

Rambunctious Reindeer

[Anonymous Coward]

> In a blog post, Mark Shuttleworth announced some changes for Ubuntu 12.10 (due in October), including the code name (Quantal Quetzal — no, really)

No, really? Another stupid codename? You can knock me over with a feather right now!

Searching when you don't know the name

[tepples]

You happened to know those were called "overlay scrollbars". Not everybody does. How should one use a search engine without knowing the name of what one is looking for?

Re:Searching when you don't know the name

[I(rispee_I(reme]

In this case, searching "unity scrollbars" produces an obvious solution in the first five results.

As a general rule, "see and ye shall find".

Re:Searching when you don't know the name

[LingNoi]

Except that's not always the case, try finding out how to enable more virtual desktops in Unity 2D not 3D, tooks much longer as everyone tells you to install ccsm which is wrong.

Re:Searching when you don't know the name

[tepples]

As a general rule, "see and ye shall find".

When that works, it works. But sometimes I fail to find, and when I complain on Slashdot about having failed to find despite having tried Google queries X, Y, and Z, others tend to chide me for "being too literal".

Re:Searching when you don't know the name

[Anonymous Coward]

Then google search "How do I get normal scrollbars in Ubuntu". *BAM*, problem solved, you'll find the answer quickly. Stop being deliberately stupid.

Re:Searching when you don't know the name

[Anonymous Coward]

Worth noting that if you Google "ubuntu make scrollbars not retarded", the first link is Burke's post, and the second is an article on how to disable overlay scrollbars.

Re:Searching when you don't know the name

[I(rispee_I(reme]

Obviously, you have failed to seek with sufficient ardor and/or rigor.

Complaining to others regarding the inadequacy of your search results is a sure sign of this.

Windows 8 desktop vs. GNOME fallback

[tepples]

At least [a screenshot of Windows 8's Metro-style start panel] still nowhere near as hideous as Windows 8 will be. Can you imagine if Microsoft designed the whole UI like that?

At least Microsoft still leaves the old UI installed by default and fully supported. A press of the super key toggles between the traditional Windows 7-style desktop and the new metrosexual start panel. (That's more than "app status" to me.) To match that, Canonical would actually have to put some effort into making a usable GNOME fallback, such as by adopting GNOME 2-based MATE or GNOME 3-based Cinnamon.

People would flock to Mac/Linux in droves!

Yes, if Microsoft were to force all applications to run as Metro-style applications in the start panel, plenty of users would plan for migration. Microsoft understands this and keeps the familiar desktop and its associated Win32 API fully supported.

Re:Windows 8 desktop vs. GNOME fallback

[crutchy]

duh! ms won't abandon traditional desktop till win10. they must first embrace support for traditional apps, then extinguish them (ripping them off as much as possible for metro versions released by ms)

Re:Windows 8 desktop vs. GNOME fallback

[gbjbaanb]

well, you'd be surprised then. Its when MS forces *some* programs to run as Metro apps, such as the web browser, so that you're in your nice multi-monitor setup, and you go to surf the web, and suddenly you have a full-screen (on monitor 1, not the other ones) metro-styled browser.

Ars has done a more in-depth, after-weeks-of-use article about it and even their pro-Microsoft writer thinks its a bit pants now. He's scathing about its multi-monitor support: it works great in desktop mode, but is useless in metro mode and that includes all the metro stuff you're forced to have when called from the desktop.

Microsoft have already said that the Win32 API is now legacy and will only be updating their WinRT API going forward. what's interesting is they've also said their .NET APIs are also legacy now.

I think Win8 is going to be another Vista, wait for Win9.

Re:Windows 8 desktop vs. GNOME fallback

[shutdown -p now]

. Its when MS forces *some* programs to run as Metro apps, such as the web browser

There's no such thing. The default setting for IE is that it'll run as Metro if opened from Metro UI (i.e. via tile, or clicking a link in another Metro app), and as desktop if opened from the desktop. It can also be configured to run as desktop only. Any other browser has the same choices.

Microsoft have already said that the Win32 API is now legacy ... what's interesting is they've also said their .NET APIs are also legacy now.

Reference?

Taken

[tepples]

Hairy Hard-on is so four years ago.

Re:Taken

[Virtucon]

Pungent Pussy?
Rancid Raccoon?
Subdued Snake?
Angry Ant?
Zealous Zebra?
Choking Chimpanzee?
Broken Baboon?
Crazy Cow? (in honor of the Mad Cow story)
Titillating Tit-Mouse?

glad I wandered away

[Osgeld]

gee willikers your top priorities on an operating system is a theme, icons and fonts! Good thing its open source so that everyone will get a glimpse of the brilliance it takes to make an OS that is perfect in any situation, so you have all this time to piss away making a theme that 90% of the people will change instantly!

Re:glad I wandered away

[clarkn0va]

It's generally agreed among those who use it that (GNU)Linux has been a good OS for years, and its greatest lack was marketing. People who already know that aren't bothered that some distros are working on making Linux shiny for the masses, while many who have yet to realize it will soon have that opportunity, now that the interface looks drastically less klunky.

Ubuntu can afford to make appearance their top priority (I'm just running with your assumption here) because the groundwork's been done. Meanwhile, there are other OSes that focussed on shiny things from the start, and although a lot of money has been made that way, it's proving to be a dead-end strategy.

Advice: Overuse of the Red Channel in Colors

[monoqlith]

Red is the color of alarm, of fear. It is abrasive to the eyes and to our visual processing system and is often used to signify errors for these reasons.

I know it seems unoriginal but Ubuntu needs to move over to a blue/green color palette. Mac OS X and Windows screens heavily utilize blue for this reason. It is psychologically soothing. It makes you feel like you're awash in the operating system as opposed to standing apart from it. I think if Ubuntu switches over to bluish colors we'll see a sharp increase in adoption.

Re:Advice: Overuse of the Red Channel in Colors

[Anonymous Coward]

> Red is the color of alarm, of fear. It is abrasive to the eyes and to our visual processing system and is often used to signify errors for these reasons.

And if you're chinese, it's the color of warmth, of cheer, of positivity, and you avoid putting error messages in red. You fail at psychology.

Re:Advice: Overuse of the Red Channel in Colors

[Osgeld]

its better than baby vomit and brown, or tarnished silver, purple, and charcoal, but yea, if theres one thing Ubuntu does perfectly, its make a fugly theme

Re:Advice: Overuse of the Red Channel in Colors

[MichaelSmith]

Yeah in the UI of the ATC system I work on red is only used for emergencies, nothing else. The actual colors are very subdued, even when red it used, but it stands out when it is used.

Re:Advice: Overuse of the Red Channel in Colors

[monoqlith]

Ok, so make the Chinese version of Ubuntu red. Most American desktop operating systems use blue because Americans tend to find blue soothing. Facebook is in blue for a reason. (OR rather, Facebook stayed blue for a reason.) I'm not advocating American centrism, just locality based color decisions.

  If I was culturally raised to find red warm, cheerful, and positive then I would find it that way. So I'm not saying this is innate. There's just what some of us do, versus others do. I personally find red abrasive to look at, which is why I tend to use themes that utilize blue/

Re:Advice: Overuse of the Red Channel in Colors

[Anonymous Coward]

Not quite that simple. You would never write somebody's name in red, it would signify their coming death. I haven't done a survey but I use Chinese software quite often & red is used about the same way it is in Western software (including error messages).

Re:Advice: Overuse of the Red Channel in Colors

[Anonymous Coward]

I write the names of my enemies in red, but I find it works best when I write their names in their own blood.

Re:Advice: Overuse of the Red Channel in Colors

[neoshroom]

You are both wrong. Red is not the the color of fear or alarm (though you aren't completely offtrack). Red is also not completely culturally based (though also not completely offtrack).

Human color vision is an evolved characteristic. Specifically only humans and birds have trichromatic color vision, which allows easy apprehension of reds against green and blue backgrounds. It is theorized the reason this is the case, is to find food sources which are often red/orange/yellow on a green background. For example, rasberries or oranges or bananas or apples.

Evolutionarily red meant "hey! look here! stop!" (like "alarm") but the rest of the message is "there might be something good and tasty here!" (like "luck" or "cheer" or "positivity").

Blues and greens are more soothing though, and likely for the same evolutionary reasons.

Re:Advice: Overuse of the Red Channel in Colors

[DerKlempner]

I think you raise a valid point. In the world of IT, we're accustomed to the logical and obvious nature of everything. Since we don't think of the subconscious or unintended results of areas such as design, we tend to forget that it still has an effect on the users.

Re:Advice: Overuse of the Red Channel in Colors

[Robert Zenz]

I actually like the Brown/Orange approach...but you know what, I just had the biggest idea ever! They could write a tool, you know, which let us select themes! That would be awesome...it's very strange that no one thought of that by now...

Re:Advice: Overuse of the Red Channel in Colors

[Anonymous Coward]

Red is also faster, which is why I use it in the dominant colour in my desktop. Need all the speed I can get!

Re:Advice: Overuse of the Red Channel in Colors

[mathew42]

The blue of KDE turns me off, because it reminds me too much of Windows.

Re:Advice: Overuse of the Red Channel in Colors

[crutchy]

i believe the "teal" color of the original win95 desktop was related to ease on the eye, or something related to the palette (0,128,128 in RGB) or popular color at the time (similar used by SGI)

Re:Advice: Overuse of the Red Channel in Colors

[gr8dude]

Can you recommend a book/paper that discusses in depth the effects of colour on the human psyche?

Re:Advice: Overuse of the Red Channel in Colors

[monoqlith]

Right, and changing my theme is what I do whenever I set up a Ubuntu desktop. But I shouldn't have to change my theme to make my eyes stop bleeding.

Re:Advice: Overuse of the Red Channel in Colors

[dominious]

OTOH red/green is more soothing at night when you are using your Desktop for something entertaining other than work. As said somewhere (search google) blue is brighter at night and is causing your system to produce less melatonin which is a hormone for sleep. It may also increase the risk of cancer!

There are already interfaces that allow you to change your OS theme. What I would like however, is a theme that will change according to the time of the day/night and/or the task I am doing to help my health and efficiency.

Re:Advice: Overuse of the Red Channel in Colors

[gbjbaanb]

now that is an original idea (quick, patent it).

A theme that would slowly change your basic colours from bright daytime blue through to relaxed night-time dark blue, along with all the other colour gradients would be quite something.

Sure, I imagine it wouldn't be the easiest of things to create decent colour gradients that always work together, but there are many people who'd put that effort into their theme packs.

Re:Advice: Overuse of the Red Channel in Colors

[Chemisor]

What about the blue screen of death?

Re:Advice: Overuse of the Red Channel in Colors

[gbjbaanb]

IIRC yellow and black is the colour of danger - hence wasps and bees colouring themselves that way, to say "don't bother trying to eat me"

"Baker Miller" pink is the most soothing colour, they paint prison cells this colour to put the violent and agitated prisoners in and there is proof it calms them down. There's also the 'green room' before TV broadcasts that's designed to keep guests calm. Then there's things like Orange that makes you feel hungry (you thought McDonalds just liked those red/yellow colours and that they didn't pay large sums to figure out which would make you part with a bit more cash?)

I'm not sure about books, check your psychology dept in Amazon, but there's plenty of sites with interesting things on them.

Re:Advice: Overuse of the Red Channel in Colors

[Anonymous Coward]

That "teal" background was mostly dictated by the limited palettes of potential customers. Win95 was being pitched to a market that was held back by the 16 colors of the early 1990s (The OS was designed for the 256+ color of the mid 1990s, but many potential customers would be seeing ads, etc on their older 16 color systems). Both white and black text shows up pretty well on a teal background.

When analyzing Microsoft products, you always have to keep in mind that matters of marketing always trump engineering and ergonomic decisions. The company ruthless in its devotion to the pursuit of profit.

Re:Advice: Overuse of the Red Channel in Colors

[LateArthurDent]

Red is the color of alarm, of fear. It is abrasive to the eyes and to our visual processing system and is often used to signify errors for these reasons.

I hate humans.

Mac OS X and Windows screens heavily utilize blue for this reason. It is psychologically soothing. It makes you feel like you're awash in the operating system as opposed to standing apart from it.

I really hate humans.

Re:Advice: Overuse of the Red Channel in Colors

[TangoMargarine]

I actually like the Brown/Orange approach...but you know what, I just had the biggest idea ever! They could write a tool, you know, which let us select themes!

Emerald?

Re:Advice: Overuse of the Red Channel in Colors

[Anonymous Coward]

Chuck Norris is AC???

Re:Advice: Overuse of the Red Channel in Colors

[Robert Zenz]

Emerald is, as far as I know, only a window-border stuffy thingy for compiz...

Re:Advice: Overuse of the Red Channel in Colors

[Anonymous Coward]

It makes you feel like you're awash in the operating system as opposed to standing apart from it.

Dude, shut the fuck up.

Re:Advice: Overuse of the Red Channel in Colors

[TangoMargarine]

What else do you want to change? Usually the window contents are "control"-colored (i.e., "gray") for J Random Program.

Re:Advice: Overuse of the Red Channel in Colors

[Threni]

Surely it's "LateDentArthurDent"?

Re:Advice: Overuse of the Red Channel in Colors

[Robert Zenz]

Every Little thing!

Re:Advice: Overuse of the Red Channel in Colors

[kuiperbelt]

Specifically only humans and birds have trichromatic color vision

No, this is not quite right. There are quite a few trichromatic mammals, and, well there's much more I could say, but http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trichromacy and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetrachromacy will set you straight.

Until UNITY is useable - who cares

[Anonymous Coward]

Im a LONG term Ubuntu user and Ive moved across to Linux mint because UNITY is just not useable for a power user.
  Its slow (even on a HIGH end, large RAM quad core machine) and buggy then trying to USE it is just annoying and I have had three honest attempts to adapt to it....
        For the pretty graphics and typography - .. they need to make it useable ! talk about not seeing the flood for the raindrops

oops

[mirix]

Also, what is the point of the separate x-buntus?
Why not just apt-get install $other_window_manager, if that is what you want? Why is it a different distro?

Re:oops

[Anonymous Coward]

They kinda skin the DM to be Ubuntu-y.

Re:oops

[Osgeld]

drop in and go with what you want from the start instead of fiddling around, I used to be one of those who LOVED playing with linux, but now I am old and grouchy I just want to drop in a disk, have more or less what I want and move on

+ its a download, see above

Re:oops

[horza]

So you don't get hundreds of megs of useless libraries installed that you don't need. Kubuntu won't install the Gnome shared libs, and Ubuntu won't install the KDE or xfce4 libs.

Of course many of us tend to just install software based on both GTK and QT4 so end up sucking a lot of them in anyway whether under Unity or KDE4.

Phillip.

Re:oops

[TangoMargarine]

The different version come with largely disjoint software collections, and when you install another desktop it all gets put into the menus unless you go through and uninstall everything. Plus, it's an extra step.

Re:oops

[unixisc]

For disks that now have up to TB of RAM, isn't the consumption of disk space by all those libraries and versions? I'm actually all for all versions of a library being there, since backward compatibility is rarely a given, and different software would rely on different versions of a library. I'd say put all the software one uses, and ALL the libraries on the disk, and put all the pirated movies and porn on a separate external HDD.

On this front, I'd say that the PBI system by PC-BSD has it right.

How do you pronounce it?

[atomicxblue]

I'd prefer names that I can easily pronounce while drunk. :p

Re:How do you pronounce it?

[sco08y]

I'd prefer names that I can easily pronounce while drunk. :p

I prefer names that I can communicate to people with a high school education or less, or who speak English as a second language. You know, like, most users.

Re:How do you pronounce it?

[Electricity Likes Me]

Also names which aren't sexual innuendo. A network browser app cannot be called "Gigolo".

Re:How do you pronounce it?

[hawkinspeter]

Why not? Are you scared of words?

Re:How do you pronounce it?

[Anne Thwacks]

Various "child friendly" software options will prevent upgrades, and they you will be vulnerable to ...

(Common sense, probably)

Re:How do you pronounce it?

[hawkinspeter]

I've never heard of any Linux software upgrades having a content filter applied. Care to provide an example or anecdote?

(I personally don't see why we should censor our language due to puritan interests. Why are people so afraid of sex and nudity, yet violence and war are almost welcomed?)

Re:How do you pronounce it?

[Electricity Likes Me]

Well I also wouldn't want it to be called "The Pillager" or "Deathpad" or anything else.

Software is software - it's naming should be close to emotion neutral when it's intended for wide consumption. I don't want to read "Gigolo" everytime I'm trying to browse a Windows workgroup, since the prostitution industry does evoke universally good emotions - it's tied to a very mixed bag of human experience, almost doubly so for the men in it.

Re:How do you pronounce it?

[hawkinspeter]

In general, words can have totally different emotional content for different people. I don't believe that is it sensible or practical to try to avoid offending people when using ordinary language (swear words are an exception as they are designed to offend and should be used sparingly to make them more effective).

The word Gigolo isn't always related to prostitution - it also means "A man who is hired as an escort or a dancing partner for a woman" which wouldn't involve sex at all. Where would you draw the line at which words are too offensive? Would you insist that the linux "man" command be renamed to avoid being sexist? What about "fsck" - it looks a bit like "fuck"?

Re:How do you pronounce it?

[TangoMargarine]

I know *I* enjoy the confidence and professionalism that comes along with GSpot Codec Information Appliance and ScrotVM.

Re:How do you pronounce it?

[TangoMargarine]

So our only two options are using provocative sexual innuendo or one-letter names, huh?

Re:How do you pronounce it?

[hawkinspeter]

I don't get what you mean by that.

Re:How do you pronounce it?

[Tarlus]

Reminds me of a computer science teacher I once had who wanted to describe Brainfuck to the class.

Re:How do you pronounce it?

[allo]

no, one-letter is to ambigous, because one-letter names are the only ones you can still pronounce right, when you moan them.

What's up with the writing style, Mark?

[shutdown -p now]

It reads like a press release for a product from some multi-billion dollar company; not a Linux distro. You can almost play bullshit bingo with that.

"Upstart knows everything it wants to be, the competition wants to be everything. Quality comes from focus and clarity of purpose, it comes from careful design and rigorous practices. .. For our future on cloud and client, Upstart is crisp, clean and correct."

"So there’s an opportunity to refresh the look. That will kick off with a project on typography to make sure we are expressing ourselves with crystal clarity – making the most of Ubuntu’s Light and Medium font weights for a start. And a project on iconography, with the University of Reading, to refine the look of apps and interfaces throughout the platform."

"In our artistic explorations we want to embrace tessellation as an expression of the part-digital, part-organic nature of Ubuntu. We love the way tessellated art expresses both the precision and reliability of our foundations, and the freedom and collaboration of a project driven by people making stuff for people. There’s nothing quixotic in our desire to make Ubuntu the easiest, steadiest, and most beautiful way to live digitally."

Re:What's up with the writing style, Mark?

[clang_jangle]

My god, that's appallingly bad! When Ubuntu came out in 2004 its niche was clear -- Debian for people who couldn't install or configure Debian. A year or two later, Debian became just as easy to install and configure as Ubuntu, so now what purpose does it really serve? Plus Ubuntu-ites are frequently the annoying Mac fanbois of the linux world, and the number of incorrect, broken "howtos" for Ubuntu is simply staggering. The net effect has been that now we have as many clueless lusers as Mac and Windows. Thanks, Mark!

Re:What's up with the writing style, Mark?

[BestNicksRTaken]

i share your pain - these days if you ever google for a linux issue all that comes back are ubuntu forums where in the majority of cases there are questions without answers, or there are just plain incorrect answers.

and there's too much of this "don't fix it upstream, just install it from this unofficial ppa instead" going on. in the fedora/debian communities things get fixed.

ubuntu has dumbed down linux to the level of macosx/windows, and linux has suffered for it.

Re:What's up with the writing style, Mark?

[Anonymous Coward]

Maybe he was stoned? Bill S. Burroughs couldn't had written more fantastic shit.

Ubuntu is dead!

[Anonymous Coward]

To me anyway. After being forced to endure that piece of rubbish called Unity, I have now gone back to the core, Debian.

At least it's not run by a megalomaniac with no understanding of consumer choice.

Re:Ubuntu is dead!

[Anonymous Coward]

Amen Brother!

Just say no.

Tesselation

[Arancaytar]

So they'll dump Unity for Xmonad? Way ahead of them.

who cares

[Anonymous Coward]

I use os x so I already have a usable unix desktop, stop being open source cheapskates and buy a real unix box you bums.

Re:who cares

[unixisc]

What's even better - the cash you'll pay for it will make you feel like you were buying a Sun or HP Unixstation.

Re:What's wrong with plain old Debian?

[TaoPhoenix]

Scared wannabe-Linux-user here -

Isn't raw Debian supposed to be Free-Software-Holy as in theory, but missing a bunch of day to day drivers and stuff? While I think I'm stuck on Windows because of the zillion mini-apps I downloaded this year, I keep eyeing Mint with xfce as the underdog distro to move to - most of the Debian Goodness, but a few (gasp! horror) "blobs" that help Just Make Things Work, plus I keep hearing xfce is one of the better UI's for Ex-Windows users.

(Sorry, what's so hard about Right-Click/New/Make new folder or document type? None of the UI's I tried got that right!)

Also, I got burned twice by Ubuntu, but I keep hearing that Raw Debian while upstream-pure requires all kinds of installs that terrified newbies aren't ready to handle. I wan'na support the philosophy, not run a rigorously pure OS! Gimme a training wheel blob so I can use it today!

Re:faster release cycle - counterpoint

[TaoPhoenix]

Okay, in the spirit of discussion, let's try a counter-view

What happens if a user wants to "relax"? I'm still on XP because as far back as the MS "Longhorn" previews in 2004 to a fighting edge in 2009, XP was the workhorse, the OS that just got $hit done while MS fiddled with Vista. Sorry, I'll live with crap bugs in an App, but not an OS. So currently Win7 looks legit, sure, but I need more perspective than that. I need to know what's beyond Win8 Metro-iOS Wannabe. I need to see what Win9 becomes.

Back to Ubuntu. I got burned by Ubuntu TWICE, (with no data risk, fortunately just testing!) once with what later became a known bug in Dapper Drake in 2006, and one last year with whatever-damn-distro-year it was, my test machine was doing fine until one of the new releases completely melted it and it refused to boot. Nope. NOT HAVING THAT on anything resembling a "production" machine. That was the end of Ubuntu for me. Why can't they just do "updates that work" like (gasp, wait for it) MS? "Service Pack 1,2,3" are basically seamless updates to the XP core, and yes, it basically Just Works.

I refuse to remotely back up my data and re-install every six months because the Ubuntu Updater can't competently update between versions.

Precise with classic Gnome desktop

[Smask]

Just install gnome-session-fallback, log out and select Classic Gnome. To move or install indicators etc, alt+right click.

Re:Precise with classic Gnome desktop

[Anonymous Coward]

This is what I did, works fine now.

Re:faster release cycle - counterpoint

[LurkerXXX]

Ubuntu has their LTS (Long Term Support) releases for that.

http://www.ubuntu.com/business/server/overview

That being said, for the desktop I've moved to Mint, because Ubuntu doesn't appear to listen to a large chunk of users like me who hate, hate, hate Unity.

Become one with unity

[Anonymous Coward]

Despite what some might say, I like unity, it's taught me new things, like unmaximize, I had never used that before, and simply don't know how I got by without it. Furthemore and working scroll bars are a privilege that should not be cannot taken for granted, also it encourages better hand eye precision, often requiring pixel perfect mouse control to expand a window (before it snaps to full screen of course).
It's also showed me the path to being greener, by refusing to work consistently on two monitors, and teaching me I really only need one, even if I have to window switch constantly this is a bonus as it improves my memory having to remember what's hidden where rather than lazily being able to see it.
it doesn't end there, it's a playful little tike, and often, and finds new ways to create games, never a dull moment.

So I am really pleased the next release does not impact on unities cheeky charms and instead focuses on important things, like better icon artwork.

Minty Gnome.

Re:

[kurkosdr]

Can anyone tell me what’s this weird obsession with fonts? They are just fonts, dammit. This is like Lada contemplating what precise color their interiors will be. Any news on funding Wayland? Naaah. Any news on funding PulseAudio? Nope. Wait, there is a new SDK coming out? Bahaha! almost got you for a minute there! There is nothing. Instead, let’s take out our crayon pencils and design new UIs and fonts first. Sure, UI and font design has it’s place, but after you have a working OS people can develop for. This is what most people don’t understand. When Microsoft announces a new API or a new SDK, it gets a quick mention in the press and then the press shifts focus on UIs and new gizmos, but the difference it makes for developers is huge. And people buy OSes depending on what apps they can run on.

LMDE

[ThatsNotPudding]

There is now a Linux Mint Debian Edition that is not based on Ubuntu at all, but the rolling release of Debian Testing. My Ubuntu just went EOL and I'm seriously considering LMDE as an alternative, though I still need to research about installing Opera and if Money Manager ex (mmex) will run without issue. I was able to run it as a Live DVD too.

Re:faster release cycle - counterpoint

[Anonymous Coward]

> Ubuntu has their LTS (Long Term Support) releases for that.

LTS means shit. They have closed off every bug I filed with something like "this appears to be fixed in the next release, closing." It's amateur hour over there.

Quantal Quetzal

[roman_mir]

Oh yeah, colours? My rule of thumb is not to use anything, the name of which I cannot pronounce without doubting myself.

Also I actually USE a COMPUTER as opposed to a netblet tablet bablet , so if it's unity then it's DOA for me.

Naming scheme

[Anonymous Coward]

Canonical, just please stop using the silly names for important things like repositories that you may actually need to remember. When I have only cli access on a server and know the version number (like 11.10) perfectly well of the package I want it's a nightmare trying to figure out if it was jaunty this or hypocritic hippo that or whatever.

Bespoke development

[tepples]

Microsoft have already said that the Win32 API is now legacy and will only be updating their WinRT API going forward.

All WinRT applications have to be obtained through the Windows Store, as I understand it. Where does this leave companies that develop applications for internal use as opposed to for sale on the Windows Store?

Re:Bespoke development

[shutdown -p now]

All WinRT applications have to be obtained through the Windows Store, as I understand it. Where does this leave companies that develop applications for internal use as opposed to for sale on the Windows Store?

You can basically have your own internal "app store".

MATE vs Cinnamon

[Anonymous Coward]

What is the difference between MATE and Cinnamon, which is available as a PPA for LinuxMint 12, but will be an install choice in LinuxMint 13 schedule for May? Is MATE the default desktop now for LinuxMint?

Re:MATE vs Cinnamon

[Anonymous Coward]

MATE is the old GNOME 2.x code, with everything "GNOME" renamed to "MATE". Because of this renaming, you can install MATE and GNOME 3.x on the same system without conflicts. MATE is a new project, but its code is already old. That's not a bad thing, at least in the short term; MATE is new but already mature. It has the smooth polish of man-decades of work.

Cinnamon is a new project, trying to create a new desktop environment that works like the old GNOME 2.x environment does. Cinnamon is being written using the GNOME 3.x libraries, which are really good (or so I have heard). When GNOME 3.x libraries improve, maybe a new file open dialog appears or whatever, Cinnamon will improve as well. But Cinnamon is not mature yet.

I think LinuxMint 12 shipped with GNOME desktop plus something called MGSE, Mint Gnome Shell Extensions, which made it work a bit more like GNOME 2.x. I'm not sure what Mint 13 is doing; Google it or something.

Re:MATE vs Cinnamon

[shutdown -p now]

The biggest benefit of Cinnamon from user perspective is probably that it'll share look and feel with Gtk3 apps (and many Gtk apps have already been, or are being, ported to Gtk3).

Re:

[gl4ss]

because you can do a new font while high 24/7.
you can not fix pulseaudio while high 24/7.

JAFUN

[Anonymous Coward]

Just Another Fucked-Up Name

stupid names is one of the reasons Linux gets little respect in the mainstream markets and media.

Better server management

[Anonymous Coward]

The servers need a better way to be managed than paying Canonoical an absurd amount of money. I'm all for them having that, but if I have less than a handful of servers that I want to manage packages, updates and configs... I need something much cheaper than Landscape and something much easier to use than Puppet.

No, that one will be

[wiredog]

Zoonotic Zebra, for the cross-platform infectability it will provide.

Re:faster release cycle - counterpoint

[spike hay]

I use Gentoo and opensuse these days on my desktops and laptop, but Ubuntu/Unity on my netbook. It does work very well with small netbook screens, which was the original intended application (at first Unity was just for the netbook edition). It's extremely difficult to use on a big desktop screen, especially if you have to do big-boy work with a lot of multitasking. There's a reason why the desktop metaphor has been the dominant gui design for the past 30 years.

Windows is falling into the same trap with Windows 8. I guess smartphones and tablets are just so cool now that the same interface must work everywhere.

How much to set up an app store?

[tepples]

How much does Microsoft charge to set up this internal "app store"? Apple charges $300 per year, and the business needs to have a DUNS number (the process to obtain which I don't know). And at first, only businesses with more than 500 employees could have their own internal iOS app store.

Re:How much to set up an app store?

[shutdown -p now]

I don't think any specifics have been published yet anywhere, just the general statement that it can be done, and screenshots of internal hub integrated into the Store.

Re:How much to set up an app store?

[gbjbaanb]

you'll probably need Sharepoint, Windows Server 2008 R2, System App Centre and SQLServer Enterprise running.... so it won't be 'costly' directly, just think of the licences.

If you wonder where the $ in M$ comes from

[tepples]

Which would end up giving iOS a cheaper TCO than Windows RT if all that software can't be obtained for $1,900, the price of a Mac mini server + 3 years of a private iOS app store.