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Code Name, Theming Update Announced For Ubuntu 12.10
benfrog writes "In a blog post, Mark Shuttleworth announced some changes for Ubuntu 12.10 (due in October), including the code name (Quantal Quetzal — no, really) and a theme update. He said, 'That will kick off with a project on typography to make sure we are expressing ourselves with crystal clarity – making the most of Ubuntu’s Light and Medium font weights for a start. And a project on iconography, with the University of Reading, to refine the look of apps and interfaces throughout the platform. It’s amazing how quaint the early releases of Ubuntu look compared to the current style. And we’re only just getting started! In our artistic explorations we want to embrace tessellation as an expression of the part-digital, part-organic nature of Ubuntu.' Some other more meaningful announcements include a focus on the cloud in the server version and the lack of a transition from Upstart to systemd."
What he calls 'quaint' I call 'usable.'
Didn't I tell you to quit making up animals?
Please consider this account deleted, I just can't be bothered with the spam anymore.
If by "priceless" you mean "gay", yes.
I live ze unknown. I love ze unknown. I am ze unknown.
Maybe if you have a tablet. It's a HUGE waste of space, extra mouse travel, and generally crappage on a desktop wiht a large monitor. I'm slowly moving all the machines I use to Linux Mint. Still Debian based, but with a sane interface for a desktop with a 24" monitor.
>part-digital, part-organic nature of Ubuntu.'
Don't tell me they're going to make my desktop start smelling brown, too....
I actually like the fact that Ubuntu is very organized and providing a direction for Linux desktops, but their UI choices have been idiosyncratic, to say the least.
They've released a few screenshots demonstrating the cleaner, lighter typeface and refined iconography.
How can I believe you when you tell me what I don't want to hear?
My problem with Unity isn't appearance (it's very pretty and slick looking), it's functionality.
In particular I'd like to single out the scroll bars as an abomination. I'm running Ubuntu Classic and I still can't get away from these fuckers. Not having the scroll bar appear unless I mouse over the little rectangle that appears to the left of where the scroll bar marker would be is god-awful. That the little rectangle appears inside the application window and thus can be obscured by, say, a same-colored selection rectangle (as happens in the file viewer, geeqie image viewer, and plenty of other apps) means I basically have to fucking *guess* where the scroll bar should be.
Is there an obvious "make scroll bars not retarded" option I'm missing? Is this shit supposed to be good on a tablet? Am I supposed to be glad that my desktop has a tablet interface?
I'm actually scared of upgrading my friend's desktop to a newer version of Ubuntu. He's computer illiterate and has been using Ubuntu more-or-less fine for several years now, but I know him and while I can tolerate even the most bone-headed of interface (I used old versions of Mentor Graphics for example) this shit is going to drive him insane and he'll stop using it.
The enemies of Democracy are
The code names are just priceless
I'm eagerly awaiting zaftig zebu.
Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
I don't like Unity either, but my plan for 12.04 is to keep Ubuntu, with which I'm otherwise still satisfied, and install MATE. There's no reason to throw out the baby with the bathwater.
Space game using normal deck of cards: http://BattleCards.org
No, that would be Queer Quetzal.
Space game using normal deck of cards: http://BattleCards.org
... should be called "Somersaulting Shark"?
I dumped that for Synaptic Package Manager as soon as I could.
Don't need to be loading lots of graphics and junk on my lightweight netbook when I'm just trying to manage packages through a menu.
Get off my launchpad!
Not that there's anything wrong with that.
Space game using normal deck of cards: http://BattleCards.org
The code names are just priceless
They certainly aren't clever, endearing, appealing, interesting, useful, memorable, straightforward, likable, notable, distinctive, marketable or easy to spell.
About the only redeeming quality they have is that they bring up that version in a search engine, so they aren't entirely useless, but again, you have to get the spelling right. It's actually frustrating reading it over the phone.
Open Source has always struggled with naming things in ways that aren't patently terrible, like the whole tradition of Something's Not Something Else.
But I think Ubuntu has managed to set the bar even lower.
Does Linux Mint support installing to encrypted LVM, like the alt-ISO for Ubuntu does?
If it does, I'll give it a try.
Get off my launchpad!
If by "priceless" you mean "gay", yes.
You think they're fabulous?
Get off my launchpad!
Thanks! Worked like a charm!
I can't wait for the release of Ubuntu Varicose Veins
You can just uninstall the overlay-scrollbar package and you'll have normal scrollbars again.
Is there an obvious "make scroll bars not retarded" option I'm missing?
If only there was a tool to, like, search for stuff...
The state you are in while your HEAD is detached... - wait, what?
Yes, set LIBOVERLAY_SCROLLBAR=0.
http://www.webupd8.org/2011/04/how-to-disable-overlay-scrollbars-in.html
Hope it helps!
Some random time after logging in to a Gnome session, mouse clicks get lost (usually within 30 seconds to 5 minutes of login.) Not just clicks on menus or windows, but all mouse clicks. KDE, however, works fine. So do the lesser known non-GTK desktops that I've played with.
[[citaiton needed]]
I have my problems with Gnome, but I've never experienced this bug.
Much more likely, you have some sort of hardware problem that happens to manifest itself with gnome but not KDE.
Sounds a lot less dramatic that way.
Not because I don't think it's cool and all that. I just tend to forget what half these otherwise useful programs are for after awhile.
Libre Office is hanging on by a thread though.
I'm a Debian user but have installed Ubuntu in a previous workplace. I recently talked to a friend who runs IT for a small company. He's moved from Ubuntu to Linux Mint over the GNOME 3 and Unity interface changes. (I personally am using GNOME 3 in legacy mode with a few changes to avoid the changes.)
Doesn't anyone test any more?
Having installed Ubuntu 10.04-12.04 on about 10 different machines I've never seen the problem you mention.
And no, despite years of C/C++ programming, I have absolutely no interest in finding and fixing the problem myself.
You could report a bug though, which would likely get fixed by the time you say you'll upgrade from 10.04.
The state you are in while your HEAD is detached... - wait, what?
Does normal seeking in the scrollbar work again (middle-click) ?
It indeed does.
Whose retard disabled seeking in a bar designed essentially to seek ?!
I don't know who the owner of the retard in question is, sorry.
The state you are in while your HEAD is detached... - wait, what?
It's not as automated, but it's still possible.
http://community.linuxmint.com/tutorial/view/344
I can understand the thing about mouse travel (though it's in fact extremely keyboard compatible), and I also can understand other complaints people have. But waste of space, and a huge one? How so, when nearly all UI elements disappear when not used? (In 12.04, that is a user setting for the launcher, though)
"When I first heard Daydream Nation it quite frankly scared the living shit out of me." -- Matthew Stearns
Actually I find them to be really stupid.
They are fantastic for google efficiency.
"When I first heard Daydream Nation it quite frankly scared the living shit out of me." -- Matthew Stearns
Every time I go to google a way to fix the problems with Unity, I end up googling for other debian-based distros instead. Seems like the best way to fix all the issues in one fell swoop.
The enemies of Democracy are
I had "Probing Penis"
Harrison's Postulate - "For every action there is an equal and opposite criticism"
I'm actually scared of upgrading my friend's desktop to a newer version of Ubuntu. He's computer illiterate and has been using Ubuntu more-or-less fine for several years now, but I know him and while I can tolerate even the most bone-headed of interface (I used old versions of Mentor Graphics for example) this shit is going to drive him insane and he'll stop using it.
I have been using an Ubuntu 11.10 computer with MATE installed, and I am happy with it. I have removed all the overlay-scrollbar packages and the result is a nice usable GNOME 2.x desktop.
http://mate-desktop.org/
Long-term, the future is probably Cinnamon, which is built on top of the new GNOME 3.x libraries but aims to duplicate the desktop features of GNOME 2.x.
http://cinnamon.linuxmint.com/
steveha
lf(1): it's like ls(1) but sorts filenames by extension, tersely
If it looks like a shopping bag, that's exactly what it's supposed to resemble. The icons for Google Play Store (formerly Android Market) and AppsLib also look like shopping bags.
You happened to know those were called "overlay scrollbars". Not everybody does. How should one use a search engine without knowing the name of what one is looking for?
At least [a screenshot of Windows 8's Metro-style start panel] still nowhere near as hideous as Windows 8 will be. Can you imagine if Microsoft designed the whole UI like that?
At least Microsoft still leaves the old UI installed by default and fully supported. A press of the super key toggles between the traditional Windows 7-style desktop and the new metrosexual start panel. (That's more than "app status" to me.) To match that, Canonical would actually have to put some effort into making a usable GNOME fallback, such as by adopting GNOME 2-based MATE or GNOME 3-based Cinnamon.
People would flock to Mac/Linux in droves!
Yes, if Microsoft were to force all applications to run as Metro-style applications in the start panel, plenty of users would plan for migration. Microsoft understands this and keeps the familiar desktop and its associated Win32 API fully supported.
Hairy Hard-on is so four years ago.
They are fantastic for google efficiency.
Eh. To be honest I usually just google the version number. I can't remember the code names (And I damn sure won't be able to remember this one).
All the world's a CPU, and all the men and women merely AI agents
>GTK-based installers such as
>have to upgrade
Why the hell are you "upgrading" Debian-based distros with an installer?
Climate Progress - Hell and High Water
gee willikers your top priorities on an operating system is a theme, icons and fonts! Good thing its open source so that everyone will get a glimpse of the brilliance it takes to make an OS that is perfect in any situation, so you have all this time to piss away making a theme that 90% of the people will change instantly!
Red is the color of alarm, of fear. It is abrasive to the eyes and to our visual processing system and is often used to signify errors for these reasons.
I know it seems unoriginal but Ubuntu needs to move over to a blue/green color palette. Mac OS X and Windows screens heavily utilize blue for this reason. It is psychologically soothing. It makes you feel like you're awash in the operating system as opposed to standing apart from it. I think if Ubuntu switches over to bluish colors we'll see a sharp increase in adoption.
Indeed. I hate the damn code-names.
"Hurr! This guide is for Remissive Rat!" - so what the fuck version are you talking about?
For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
That said, they've done stupid shit before.
Once upon a time, they made a change to shave off about 1 second from boot time. The cost? USB keyboards only! No AT or PS2 for you! ... that really pissed me off, and that's when I departed from using Ubuntu. (note, this was a few years back)
For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
Indeed. I wish they would stop "fixing" what isn't broken. Even KDE is pushing it lately, for me.
I don't think this is a poison specific to Ubuntu or GNOME, it seems to be everywhere.
What am I supposed to do? Stop updating? Pretend it's still the last decade?
It's like everyone's trying to become the Next Big Thing as far as interfaces go, but the hardware is lagging seriously behind (eg, this stuff would be awesome on holographic tablets a-la science fiction games).
For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
Still Debian based
I don't really understand this line of thought. People use Ubuntu, dislike it, then move to (K|X)buntu or Mint... What's wrong with plain old Debian?
I must be missing something.
Sent from my PDP-11
i think there is a tint2 script for that.
Also, what is the point of the separate x-buntus?
Why not just apt-get install $other_window_manager, if that is what you want? Why is it a different distro?
Sent from my PDP-11
I'd prefer names that I can easily pronounce while drunk. :p
...and then there was bash
It reads like a press release for a product from some multi-billion dollar company; not a Linux distro. You can almost play bullshit bingo with that.
"Upstart knows everything it wants to be, the competition wants to be everything. Quality comes from focus and clarity of purpose, it comes from careful design and rigorous practices. .. For our future on cloud and client, Upstart is crisp, clean and correct."
"So there’s an opportunity to refresh the look. That will kick off with a project on typography to make sure we are expressing ourselves with crystal clarity – making the most of Ubuntu’s Light and Medium font weights for a start. And a project on iconography, with the University of Reading, to refine the look of apps and interfaces throughout the platform."
"In our artistic explorations we want to embrace tessellation as an expression of the part-digital, part-organic nature of Ubuntu. We love the way tessellated art expresses both the precision and reliability of our foundations, and the freedom and collaboration of a project driven by people making stuff for people. There’s nothing quixotic in our desire to make Ubuntu the easiest, steadiest, and most beautiful way to live digitally."
for me its the install process, the others its 1 disc and its like 90% of what I need already there in record time, debian wants to reach out for every single thing and when you have a shit internet (like I have 1Mbs) just getting a base system installed with a command prompt can turn into a couple hours
I would rather use debian, I am rather fond of it ... though I would rather just get an os on the machine and go about whatever it was I wanted to do
Actually it was a few releases back, Ubuntu 8.04 Hairy Hardon.
Mod me down, my New Earth Global Warmingist friends!
I feel your pain, Ubuntu went nutty so I switched to mint. Mint 10 just ended support this month, 11 and its implementation of gnome 2 is half broken and 12 uses gnome 3, which is perfect for my 2Ghz AGP workbench machine. Theres mint LXDE, but I dont like LXDE is disjointed as a DM, so I finally settled down on xubuntu (XFCE) runs fine, nice DM, up to date for a while too
I use Debian myself because it is reliable and simple. But it is not without issues.
The software is old, old, old, old. Even with testing.
So they'll dump Unity for Xmonad? Way ahead of them.
I don't really understand this line of thought. People use Ubuntu, dislike it, then move to (K|X)buntu or Mint... What's wrong with plain old Debian?
The Debian installer doesn't work as a live CD. I don't know where you can go to get a live CD with a standard Debian system on it and a GUI desktop that Just Works.
The Debian installer doesn't sort out all your hardware as well as the Ubuntu installer does. I have several laptops and I can boot an Ubuntu disc on any of them, and a GUI comes up with WiFi working. I am able to install Debian, but it would need to be with the laptop plugged in to a wired network, so I could manually install packages for the WiFi stuff until it works.
While I know a lot of people seem to hate PulseAudio, I want it running. With Ubuntu you just get it; with Debian you need to sort it out yourself.
Before "Unity" I could basically install Ubuntu and be productive right away. Now there is a step where I have to disable Unity and set up some other desktop, but that's still easier than installing Debian and fixing everything.
On the other hand, for servers, I run Debian Stable and I have for many years now. Rock solid reliable, and none of the above issues matter. (If I need to boot a server from a live CD, I can just use the Ubuntu one. But my servers are reliable and I basically never need to do that.)
steveha
lf(1): it's like ls(1) but sorts filenames by extension, tersely
The real mystery is why is stuff like this never on a GUI settings menu. There always is one, but it usually fails to be any good at configuring anything.
Don't kid yourself: holographic tablets, in fact all computer interfaces as seen in entertainment - are garbage. They exist specifically to be incomprehensible to the audience, so you don't have to fill out everything that's on there, yet they always seem highly functional because the plot demands them to be.
http://www.debian.org/
Where is the download now button? It's just masses and masses of documentation and that's why no one wants to use Debian because it's just a complete mess of policy and other bureaucracy that wastes your time.
> You could report a bug though, which would likely get fixed by the time you say you'll upgrade from 10.04.
With ubuntu this has never been my experience. Instead it gets ignored and you get bothered every 5 months to a year being asked "does it work on the latest version"? and I'm not talking about stuff that only effects me, i'm talking about stuff that anyone could take 5 minutes to test if it works themselves but they don't.
That and the fact that Ubuntu rejects bugs that are upstream bugs. No, filing bugs in launchpad is totally useless waste of anyone's time because they never look at them.
How is it that an interface that can restructure itself on the fly supposed to be garbage? Sure, it would suck if you were just waving at air - but these interfaces are also said or hinted to have some kind of tactile feedback. Some canon even goes so far as to explain it via force fields or whatnot.
Like I said, far off in the future if ever, but it seems everyone wants interfaces to start behaving that way now.
For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
No shit, it was fixed (because I reported the bug). That wasn't my point. My point was a jab at the mindset that allows developers to do things for the sake of a second shorter boot, but not test it properly or think it through (it would have been obvious if it occurred to the dev that not every keyboard was USB)
For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
Okay, in the spirit of discussion, let's try a counter-view
What happens if a user wants to "relax"? I'm still on XP because as far back as the MS "Longhorn" previews in 2004 to a fighting edge in 2009, XP was the workhorse, the OS that just got $hit done while MS fiddled with Vista. Sorry, I'll live with crap bugs in an App, but not an OS. So currently Win7 looks legit, sure, but I need more perspective than that. I need to know what's beyond Win8 Metro-iOS Wannabe. I need to see what Win9 becomes.
Back to Ubuntu. I got burned by Ubuntu TWICE, (with no data risk, fortunately just testing!) once with what later became a known bug in Dapper Drake in 2006, and one last year with whatever-damn-distro-year it was, my test machine was doing fine until one of the new releases completely melted it and it refused to boot. Nope. NOT HAVING THAT on anything resembling a "production" machine. That was the end of Ubuntu for me. Why can't they just do "updates that work" like (gasp, wait for it) MS? "Service Pack 1,2,3" are basically seamless updates to the XP core, and yes, it basically Just Works.
I refuse to remotely back up my data and re-install every six months because the Ubuntu Updater can't competently update between versions.
My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
Just install gnome-session-fallback, log out and select Classic Gnome. To move or install indicators etc, alt+right click.
There is a Debian Live CD you can use.
Greylisting is to SMTP as NAT is to IPv4
Ubuntu has their LTS (Long Term Support) releases for that.
http://www.ubuntu.com/business/server/overview
That being said, for the desktop I've moved to Mint, because Ubuntu doesn't appear to listen to a large chunk of users like me who hate, hate, hate Unity.
The download button is at top right.
How about Zigzaging Zebras?
What's even better - the cash you'll pay for it will make you feel like you were buying a Sun or HP Unixstation.
I've made peace with Unity by forcing the side-bar to be permanently hidden, and relying on Synapse (It's a Gnome-DO alternative) to access applications and files. Works for me!
sudo apt-get remove overlay-scrollbar-thingy-please-look-up-name-with-apt-cache-search
I'm fine with that kind of forward thinking decision. If you're installing a new distro on old hardware that uses a PS2 mouse and keyboard, it's easy enough to grab a spare USB one and plug it in.
If your hardware doesn't support USB, then maybe a modern distro isn't the right choice for it.
You're a temporary arrangement of matter sliding towards oblivion in a cold, uncaring universe
Despite what some might say, I like unity, it's taught me new things, like unmaximize, I had never used that before, and simply don't know how I got by without it. Furthemore and working scroll bars are a privilege that should not be cannot taken for granted, also it encourages better hand eye precision, often requiring pixel perfect mouse control to expand a window (before it snaps to full screen of course).
It's also showed me the path to being greener, by refusing to work consistently on two monitors, and teaching me I really only need one, even if I have to window switch constantly this is a bonus as it improves my memory having to remember what's hidden where rather than lazily being able to see it.
it doesn't end there, it's a playful little tike, and often, and finds new ways to create games, never a dull moment.
So I am really pleased the next release does not impact on unities cheeky charms and instead focuses on important things, like better icon artwork.
Minty Gnome.
I haven't installed from 'disk' since I don't know when. My router boots to a netboot install on a TFTP server. I have an apt-cacher-ng server running on my server also.
I can have a new debian installed in almost no time.
It's not exactly "Download" But "Getting Debian" is a pretty close.
Turning off weird scrollbars is a GUI config option in the Precise Pangolin Live CD I looked at. It's somewhere in Appearance, I think.
I'm not a lawyer, but I play one on the Internet. Blog
Not sure if serious or just that stupid:
Use Internet to download additional files during installation.
Useful when the install target has no Internet connection.
You also have at least as many options on the Ubuntu download page:
http://ubuntu.virginmedia.com/releases//precise/
There is absolutely no way you can provide phone support for your cousins in Arkansas if they cant see what you are telling them about. Its just too time consuming! And there is no way I am going to Arkansas with the present TSA regime in force.
Sent from my ASR33 using ASCII
I don't want to discuss this. I was only interested in the claimed waste of space. (Anyway, I don't think that you can say that - every GUI hides controls, because otherwise it would show them all, all the time, which no GUI does)
"When I first heard Daydream Nation it quite frankly scared the living shit out of me." -- Matthew Stearns
With ubuntu this has never been my experience. Instead it gets ignored and you get bothered every 5 months to a year being asked "does it work on the latest version"?
I've reported plenty of bugs to Launchpad. Sometimes bugs do get ignored, others get fixed immediately. It depends on the nature of the bug - Canonical isn't known for being a major developing force in the Linux kernel area, for example, but I reported a couple of bugs against the HUD feature a few months ago and they indeed got fixed, which involved going back to the design team and then to developers. They have a good workflow set up, but as a distribution with finite developing manpower they can't possibly fix everything. I wish Launchpad had automatic upstreaming for certain packages (especially those in Universe), but for packages in Main I can't complain.
Linux users (and that extends to most Free/Open Source software users) tend to have this annoying sense of entitlement that unnecessarily stresses relations with developers and turns everything into a flamewar. "Why doesn't MY bug get fixed?", ignoring how many OTHER bugs (likely of broader importance) get fixed, "Why don't you do this THIS way?", without bothering to consider that there might be an underlying design principle, or that your preferences represent those of a minority. My favourite is "That's it, I'm moving to Mint/back to Windows". Good riddance. Only in most cases they don't -- empty threats are a valid way of seeking attention, apparently.
The state you are in while your HEAD is detached... - wait, what?
Can anyone tell me what’s this weird obsession with fonts? They are just fonts, dammit. This is like Lada contemplating what precise color their interiors will be. Any news on funding Wayland? Naaah. Any news on funding PulseAudio? Nope. Wait, there is a new SDK coming out? Bahaha! almost got you for a minute there! There is nothing. Instead, let’s take out our crayon pencils and design new UIs and fonts first. Sure, UI and font design has it’s place, but after you have a working OS people can develop for. This is what most people don’t understand. When Microsoft announces a new API or a new SDK, it gets a quick mention in the press and then the press shifts focus on UIs and new gizmos, but the difference it makes for developers is huge. And people buy OSes depending on what apps they can run on.
I don't mind the "scum" or even the "dykes" (although I'm the wrong gender for that to apply), but I draw the line at "America-centric". I'm British and although we're often considered to be the 51st state, we're on a completely different continent.
You're a temporary arrangement of matter sliding towards oblivion in a cold, uncaring universe
I don't understand how someone could read this..
> I'm not talking about stuff that only effects me, i'm talking about stuff that anyone could take 5 minutes to test
and say this..
> They probably don't have access to your particular setup to test it with.
There have been plenty of times when UI bugs that effect EVERYONE get these kinds of responses. Not all problems are hardware problems.
Simple example.. Default config misconfigured.. do I REALLY need to test that someone changed the value in the default config to the correct setting every ubuntu release? or perhaps the person copying and pasting in the triage line to check it out instead of wasting everyones time.
And yet that's like 3 versions after they were first introduced, since literally every instruction tutorial for earlier versions goes "apt get remove --purge ..." something.
> Linux users (and that extends to most Free/Open Source software users) tend to have this annoying sense of entitlement that unnecessarily stresses relations with developers and turns everything into a flamewar. "Why doesn't MY bug get fixed?"
No, just no. I've filed bugs, committed code and developers have rejected the merges, i have made fixes that many people asked for but it something they disagreed with ideologically, and refused to pull. These people waste MY time because rather then say "we don't think that's a bug and we'll never accept something that fixes it", instead they lead people on with "why don't you submit a patch", then it's "not enough test cases", etc until it's finally just ignored.
Sorry but everything you said is bullshit, time and time again I have been leaded on by "@ubuntu.com" users on launchpad either "does it work in this release", submitting patches that end up rejected instead of just saying they'll never accept that, and bugs there were simply ignored that I simply won't waste my time there anymore. Ubuntu is great and I use it but i'll never go back to launchpad.
You sound like the typical apologist that's never strongly participated in contributions from the outside, because you wouldn't be saying what you're saying otherwise. I've contributed to many different open source projects but I never experienced the total lack of care if something gets fixed or not as I have with "@ubuntu.com" users on launchpad.
Many people have this same exact experience, it's not something you can just handwave away.
Debian default installs are quite ugly, they also provide a very complicated variety of installation methods, which is great if you need them all, trying to wade through them to find the one your looking for is pretty arduous for beginners.
:-/
I also had some problems with my graphics card with every one I tried (Radeon HD 6870).
I was seriously considering switching to Debian for my home install after the Unity debacle, but while I would always use it on a server, it just doesn't seem right for an everyday desktop. On Mint with MATE just now, and it's not bad, but I'm no longer sure what I'd recommend for someone who wanted to try out linux
If you think someone isn't free to have a different definition of "freedom" you may be a tyrant.
I used Debian long, long ago - a while back when moving from Ubuntu I considered it instead of LinuxMint but I ran into a problem.
Not having been actively following it - I found there was nowhere I could easily determine which codename refers to which branch - or even what the right choice for a desktop would be.
Testing or Unstable ? And what are their names these days - which is which ?
After half and hour of digging and failing to find the information to know what I ought to download ... I gave up and installed LinuxMint Ubuntu. I did try Mint Debian but it annoyed me - a lot (was several months ago though - I honestly cannot remember what exactly it did that annoyed me).
Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
Well I was speaking more towards "things which look like computers on TV" then anything else, but the point also stands: using an interface for an extended period where your arms aren't resting on something to be supported becomes extremely tiresome. It's also impractical to have a touchscreen desktop monitor for pretty much the same reasons.
There are very good reasons most interfaces have lasted as long as they have (i.e. the computer mouse).
I do plan on filing a bug report. It wasn't until last week that I finally narrowed down the problem to a GTK issue so I'd know where to report the bug.
I had reported the problem last year to Ubuntu, but got no response or progress, and based on it's continued appearance in GTK-based installers and desktops, it clearly hasn't been addressed (i.e. the bug was submitted to the wrong project.)
That's the one frustrating thing about open source. You have to at least do enough debugging to identify which software component is causing the problem before you can even report that there is a problem.
I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
Everyone says "hardware problem."
Why do you think I kept trying to test it on different machines? Had it only been my box, I'd have assumed hardware (and did for many months.) But two other boxes from completely different manufacturers are affected as well. There is nothing in common between the three systems in terms of chipsets, CPU, or I/O devices.
I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
Just use software that shares your philosophy, where updates don't remake the whole software package. Go with one of the less well-known window managers like Openbox or FVWM or even a minor desktop like XFCE. Build workflows around old mature tools like shells and terminals rather than graphical file managers. There are lots of projects that are not trying to become the next big thing, but none of them are associated with KDE, GNOME, or Ubuntu.
Penny - plain text accounting
Thanks for the link!
Get off my launchpad!
There is now a Linux Mint Debian Edition that is not based on Ubuntu at all, but the rolling release of Debian Testing. My Ubuntu just went EOL and I'm seriously considering LMDE as an alternative, though I still need to research about installing Opera and if Money Manager ex (mmex) will run without issue. I was able to run it as a Live DVD too.
The system updater which actually upgrades to the new release does slightly more than apt-get will. Why this should be necessary I have no idea but updating sources.list and running apt-get hasn't been the official way to upgrade Ubuntu for several versions
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
It doesn't say "download now," but rather "Download Debian 6.0." Anyone who can't recognize that these two phrases are so similar as to be functionally synonymous probably shouldn't be using Debian. To be fair, it's possible that the GP just didn't see the download button.
Geology - it's not rocket science; it's rock science
Oh yeah, colours? My rule of thumb is not to use anything, the name of which I cannot pronounce without doubting myself.
Also I actually USE a COMPUTER as opposed to a netblet tablet bablet , so if it's unity then it's DOA for me.
You can't handle the truth.
Either Xubuntu or Lubuntu might work well for him. Xubuntu is definitely closer to GNOME2 in terms of features and functionality; if your friend is uses/needs that extra functionality, I'd not upgrade him to Lubuntu.
Geology - it's not rocket science; it's rock science
do-release-upgrade works just fine. YMMV.
Music is everybody's possession.
It's only publishers who think that people own it.
Fuck Beta
~John Lenno
Well, I'm halfway there. The GUI I tend to use only when it's needed to convey information (eg a graphics editor, videos, games etc). Moving files around, editing configuration files, system maintenance etc - I tend to do all this in a terminal.
The trouble is that Openbox etc are TOO minimal. I can function, but not happily. XFCE seems to be the happy medium, in my case.
For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
Microsoft have already said that the Win32 API is now legacy and will only be updating their WinRT API going forward.
All WinRT applications have to be obtained through the Windows Store, as I understand it. Where does this leave companies that develop applications for internal use as opposed to for sale on the Windows Store?
Seriously?
Center of the page under Getting Started, the first link is "obtain a copy".
Perhaps Debian isn't for you if you cant navigate the homepage.
I did propose this for "phone support": http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/29001/
A possible advantage of that interface is it could also allow "advanced" users to do stuff more quickly, maybe even faster than with a conventional CLI.
Actually I find them to be really stupid.
They are fantastic for google efficiency.
this newest one sure isn't... though probably soon enough you can write "quuer" and get the "Showing search results for the latest ubuntu..".
world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
I would prefer Debian. It's on all my servers and laptops. But my primary workstation runs Ubuntu, because Debian's font rendering is ugly as sin.
Why not give plain Debian a try? Encrypted LVM and RAID are supported by the debian installer. The packages in Sid are just as up to date as the packages in Mint.
Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
It isn't?
"When I first heard Daydream Nation it quite frankly scared the living shit out of me." -- Matthew Stearns
because you can do a new font while high 24/7.
you can not fix pulseaudio while high 24/7.
world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
do-release-upgrade works just fine. YMMV.
Is it automated? Can I issue one command and walk away? My understanding is that there's a prompt. I want to schedule it to happen "at 0100" or similar because I have a crap network connection and I share it with another human.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
No. Is that what Unity is copying? Does it suck balls as a desktop interface too?
The enemies of Democracy are
Bug report filed with bugzilla.gnome.org.
I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
I don't know why this is modded funny. How about informative instead? The parent's experiences in lodging bugs in launchpad against Ubuntu pretty much correspond with my own.
I don't want to rag on Ubuntu too much because I think they have done great things hardware auto-detection, proprietary driver install & generally advancing public acceptance of Linux on the desktop.
But the way they handle bugs can use improvement. The standard reply of 'does the problem still reproduce if you try it in version x+1?' is not good enough. Because Ubuntu is aggressive about building new features into new versions there is a ton of code churn. Even if the original problem disappears in version x+1, the code churn practically guarantees that a bunch of new bugs are introduced. It turns into a game of whack-a-mole where the overall quality of the Ubuntu OS tends to maintain a steady state or even decline as new versions are progressively introduced.
Fix your bugs in the version in which they are reported. If you don't like backporting that much code than reduce the scope of what you attempt in each release, reduce the code churn, spend more time testing & reduce the number of bugs that you introduce with each new version.
Just my 2 cents.
friends don't let friends teleport drunk
Zoonotic Zebra, for the cross-platform infectability it will provide.
Best Slashdot Co
I use Gentoo and opensuse these days on my desktops and laptop, but Ubuntu/Unity on my netbook. It does work very well with small netbook screens, which was the original intended application (at first Unity was just for the netbook edition). It's extremely difficult to use on a big desktop screen, especially if you have to do big-boy work with a lot of multitasking. There's a reason why the desktop metaphor has been the dominant gui design for the past 30 years.
Windows is falling into the same trap with Windows 8. I guess smartphones and tablets are just so cool now that the same interface must work everywhere.
If you don't understand any of my sayings, come to me in private and I shall take you in my German mouth.
MATE is the old GNOME 2.x code, with everything "GNOME" renamed to "MATE". Because of this renaming, you can install MATE and GNOME 3.x on the same system without conflicts. MATE is a new project, but its code is already old. That's not a bad thing, at least in the short term; MATE is new but already mature. It has the smooth polish of man-decades of work.
Cinnamon is a new project, trying to create a new desktop environment that works like the old GNOME 2.x environment does. Cinnamon is being written using the GNOME 3.x libraries, which are really good (or so I have heard). When GNOME 3.x libraries improve, maybe a new file open dialog appears or whatever, Cinnamon will improve as well. But Cinnamon is not mature yet.
I think LinuxMint 12 shipped with GNOME desktop plus something called MGSE, Mint Gnome Shell Extensions, which made it work a bit more like GNOME 2.x. I'm not sure what Mint 13 is doing; Google it or something.
The biggest benefit of Cinnamon from user perspective is probably that it'll share look and feel with Gtk3 apps (and many Gtk apps have already been, or are being, ported to Gtk3).
How much does Microsoft charge to set up this internal "app store"? Apple charges $300 per year, and the business needs to have a DUNS number (the process to obtain which I don't know). And at first, only businesses with more than 500 employees could have their own internal iOS app store.
I can use PPAs with Ubuntu derivatives and not with Debian. For a lazy asshole such as me it's a deciding advantage.
Is that what Unity is copying? Does it suck balls as a desktop interface too?
No. Yes.
10.7 thinned the scrollbar and removed the arrows altogether, and by default it auto-hides (though this can be disabled). It's a part of the whole OSX/iOS blur they're trying to do.
/* No Comment */
Wasted Wombat?
/* No Comment */
Does Debian recognize Wi Fi out of the box? Reason I can imagine people having a problem w/ Debian is that due to their non inclusion of 'non-free' software in their repos, and making one go online to get it, one may not get all the things that one needs. And if the network connectivity ain't there, that's even more problematic. If Debian focussed on just getting these 2 things right, they'd be just fine.
Incidentally, is Debian still Linux only, or is kFreeBSD ready? What's their status on Hurd?
Which would end up giving iOS a cheaper TCO than Windows RT if all that software can't be obtained for $1,900, the price of a Mac mini server + 3 years of a private iOS app store.
yes/no. You can type it, hit enter and it will download all files. Then it will ask "last chance to stop" and you need to hit enter another time.
so you can download at 0100 and install later.
Well, that is retarded, but at least it's not as retarded as I thought.
Unfortunately I still need to issue the command manually, or use Expect. Should have done it last night but I had other things on my mind.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"