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Methane Producing Dinosaurs May Have Changed Climate
Hugh Pickens writes "The Telegraph reports that huge plant-eating dinosaurs called sauropods may have produced enough greenhouse gas by breaking wind to alter the Earth's climate. Scientists believe that, just as in cows, methane-producing bacteria aided the digestion of sauropods by fermenting their plant food. 'A simple mathematical model suggests that the microbes living in sauropod dinosaurs may have produced enough methane to have an important effect on the Mesozoic climate,' says study leader Dr Dave Wilkinson. 'Indeed, our calculations suggest that these dinosaurs could have produced more methane than all modern sources — both natural and man-made — put together.' The key factor is the total mass of the animals which included some of the largest animals to walk the Earth, such as Diplodocus, which measured 150 feet and weighed up to 45 tons. Medium-sized sauropods weighed about 20 tons and lived in herds of up to a few tens of individuals per square kilometer so global methane emissions from the animals would have amounted to around 472 million tons per year, the scientists calculated. Sauropods alone may have been responsible for an atmospheric methane concentration of one to two parts per million (ppm), say the scientists and studies have suggested that the Earth was up to 10C (18F) warmer in the Mesozoic Era. ''The Mesozoic trend to sauropod gigantism led to the evolution of immense microbial vats unequaled in modern land animals. Methane was probably important in Mesozoic greenhouse warming. Our simple proof-of-concept model suggests greenhouse warming by sauropod megaherbivores could have been significant in sustaining warm climates.'"
really, do we have to get to discussing dinosaur farts for people to figure out what pseudoscience is? Could this research have had actual research papers and not just been pure speculation?
I'm nto going to read the article. This is just another tree hugger trying to prove global warming is caused by people by showing it has been done before. I'm fine with being modded down.
...we produce more radioactive fallout than all other animals put together... Hmmmm...
We've got politicians doing the same thing. Tell me something new.
In addition to being 18 degrees warmer, scientists also concluded the climate was 43% more stinky
So to fight global warming, everyone holds in their farts, until we get spontaneous human combustion?
Using the tedious evidence of dinosaurs existence as a basis for an even more unlikely Global warming phenomenon. Pitiful
Chek out the video's here http://greencheck.nl/index.php?/archives/971-Statoil-Rosneft,-Het-Doek-Valt-Voor-De-Mensheid.html
The world today is very different than the world millions of years ago. There were a lot more trees back then, which provided more shade for the ground and more oxygen in the air. It's not Methane alone that is affecting the planet, it's ALL of the ABOVE!
-- By all means let's be open-minded, but not so open-minded that our brains drop out.
I wish for general audiences, science reporters would give the "whole" picture - meaning along with this story, also mention that other sources of methane and greenhouse gases.
AND ...
- notice the word "suggests".
Now, we're going to start hearing that the dinosaurs did more to harm the atmosphere and caused more global warming than we ever did.
Manmade Global Warming is a Hoax! they'll say.
Then again, maybe this is a lesson to us. We see the output of these creatures and what they did to themselves and we'll come to the conclusion that maybe we should learn from them and take care.
N'ah. We'll all ignore everything. And if Global Climate change does get bad enough where it starts affecting the Western World - namely us in the US - then we'll just put the blame on others, bury our heads in the sand, continue life as usual, say "See China isn't doing anything!", and fuck the rest of the World.
I'm sick and tired of everyone blaming the Democrats for Climate change...
Huh? Oh, those Dinosaurs - sorry.
I made a reference to dinosaur farts changing climate several stories ago in an anti-human-induced-climate-change post. I believe it was the story about wind turbines affecting climate. Point is still valid: Anything on this planet is going to affect the climate in some way. The current climate is what is "natural" to Earth for the current moment. Humans affect climate the same as dinosaur farts. The planet will self-correct when necessary.
Climate change zealots need to find a new hobby. News flash here is that the climate is going to change no matter what you do, so your religion is baseless.
So you're claiming that humans themselves produce radioactive fallout in a fashion comparable to how ruminants produce methane? I hope not, because that would make you appear a bigger idiot than, say, Glenn Beck or Rick Santorum, and nobody wants that, not least being Beck or Santorum themselves for stealing their limelight.
when you think about it. The largest living terrestrial animal African bush elephant http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Largest_organisms only weighs about 7 t (15,000 lb). The fact that these sauropods can weigh up to 45 tons is mind blowing. I couldn't fathom trying to move 45 tons on land let alone in the water.
http://www.cell.com/current-biology/abstract/S0960-9822(12)00329-6 in which the authors thank Lynn Margulis and say that she would 'savoured" fart jokes. "We thank the late Lynn Margulis for infecting us with her microbial enthusiasm — she would have savoured the notion of sauropods as walking methanogen vats.
"Asleep at the switch? I wasn't asleep, I was drunk!" -- Homer
It would be nice if we could go one day without an article about (or related to) climate change.
No point reducing fossil fuels,etc
1st we must all take steps to contain and eliminate farts
I propose a tube attached to a bag on one end and the other end up the ass
You pay taxes as per the amount of farts produced by you
Or maybe not. Seems pretty much any post with *may* in the title could or could not have happened. Take your pick. So what is point, then, of these postings? Can anyone stand here and tell me what really happened millions and millions of years ago? Of course not. It is all just conjecture. Probably wild guesses at best. These posts are useless fluff.
Pebbles may cause rashes.
Snakes may cure cancer.
The color blue may cure baldness in small men.
I'm sure you can come up with examples that are even more ridiculous. Best thing about using *may* is that nobody can dispute you. Great to be a scientist, isn't it!
So farts really are deadly! Well I, for one, refuse to fart any more.
It's dinodoo and yet another agenda 21 global warming propaganda piece. Unless there was a 3000 ft layer of continously setcating dinosaurs of course, you never know what even more insane bullshit the climate fearmongeprs come up with.
OK! OK! OK! Enough with bashing conservatives at every opportunity.
I'm conservative (most of us over 40 are), yet I agree global warming is a problem and it can be attributed to human activity.
However, "cute" articles like this ("Oh look little Tommy - dinosaurs, and it's about Global Warming, so I can feel good about myself reading it) are nothing more than fluff pieces that make self-righteous Eurotrash feel informed, and your post is just more inane karma whoring.
Seriously, if China and India get to exempt themselves from the Kyoto protocol, then yes, fuck them.
The problem of dinosaurs causing climate change has been around for 150 million years and we haven't fixed it yet?
This research stinks.
If I ever get that Time Machine i've been working on to work properly, I know what era im not bothering to visit now.
like Denise explained I'm impressed that someone able to profit $8653 in one month on the internet. have you seen this web link http://www.makecash16.com
"Medium-sized sauropods weighed about 20 tons and lived in herds of up to a few tens of individuals per square kilometer so global methane emissions from the animals would have amounted to around 472 million tons per year, the scientists calculated." How could they possibly know the population density? not to be an ass, just asking honestly
The ridiculous theory assumes that dinosaurs actually existed.
Some say that the mass extinction which was allegedly caused by the meteorite that hit Central America was in fact the result of a global conflagration caused by a group of teenaged stegosaurs on a camping trip who thought it would be funny to light one off...
How's this:
Since the dinosaurs never existed, because God put the bones in the ground for us to find and remind us we will one day die and go to heaven, it's easier than ever to say that climate change doesn't, and never did, exist.
Am I doing it right?
-
Basically, what you have is a bunch of children debating something in a hostile manner - calling names and pointing out who is dumb or stupid for believing what they believe.
I posit that less than 1% of you will actually try to discuss this in a manner that is intended to illuminate the nay-sayer that you are confronting.
I further posit that the reason for such a low percentage is that most of you lack the understanding to articulate what the real reasons for climate change are and have only taken the position to be on the "winning side" of the argument so that you look smarter than you actually are.
You start using feet then proceed to tons (metric or US), then proceed to square kilometers...
If you don't want to use the standard measurement system for all the measures, at least be consistent! Don't use standard units mixed up with US units. It just makes a mess.
The vast majority of people in the world has no fucking idea how much 150 feet is!
Give me a fart please, it just ridiculous.
Go and observe sun!
It's nonsense, while individually sauropods are huge. The total biomass of sauropods is unlikely to be anywhere near that of cattle. There is zero evidence to support claims, because there is no evidence that supports sauropod populations that high.
the history of the MAFIAA extended so far back in history. Maybe they are the root cause of the current climate changes. A hypothesis as believable as many of the alternate hypothesis bruited by the alarmists.
There is no right to feel safe thru security vaudeville at the expense of everyone's freedom, privacy and tax money.
So the dinosaurs caused their own global warming and everything worked out well for them. Why is everyone up in such a bunch of it now?
Paying taxes to buy civilization is like paying a hooker to buy love.
I first heard about this idea over a decade ago as a possible hypothesis for dinosaur extinction. I believe a paper was written up by someone at UC Santa Barbara and I learned of it on college geology field trips.
It was not discussed in the context of "global warming" at that time--it was just stated that the methane gas could have affected the climate enough to have directly or indirectly prompted a mass extinction. We tended to favor the impact theory (as evidenced by the KT boundary) as a more likely explanation, but the idea of dinosaur farts affecting climate has been around for a long time.
Huge Americans known as Gastropods may be emitting enough methane out of their asses to alter the Earth's climate.
Nevermind global warming.
I think scientists can sell the threat better by claiming the world will die in a method of dino-farting under cloud covers
I live near many dairy farms. Should I be worried?
Having had discussion with climate denier, they make pretty as much sense as evolution denier. They always bring up retarded point already debunked 10000 time.
Mind you scientist bringing and investigating element falsifying climate change/AGW theory do not belong to that category. In that "denialist" category I put every single people which have no clue whatsoever about the climatologist model, or data, but just jump on the denialism bandwagon. Which is pretty much everybody you can see online denying AGW with a fair degree of certainty. You can recognize them easily, first they were denying there could be a warming, then they were denying there is a warming, recentely they switched to accuse a bunch of other phenomenon and move the goalpost every time. Now they are denying that the impact will be big.
Real scientist having a go at falsifying the theory ? Good. Bunch of idiot denying what real scientist found out because it is inconvennient to them ? In the same bag as holocaust or evolution denialism.
The problem with climate change is the rate. The dinosaurs, were here for 160 MILLION years. The amount of time it took for the type of climate change the research is suggesting (due to excrement) is hard to agree with. There could have been a lot of other naturally contributing factors in that timescale.
The amount of climate change brought about in the past 100 years, however, is largely due to anthropogenic emissions. People consuming resources, driving, industry, cows (yes meat production and transportation as well as dairy farm methane), depletion of natural carbon sinks, irresponsible land use and the list goes on.
So stop trying to push climate change off as a totally natural occurrence that we have nothing to worry about. The earth's climate has never remained the same for long, and yes it's had plenty of warm and cold spells in the past but never, ever have we been able to find that rate of change occurring over the course of a measly 100 years. This is the worrisome part. People need to accept that we have changed the course of climate on this planet at a rate never seen before and the earth will continue to warm unless we start changing the way we live. And soon.
Join the Slashcott! Feb 10 thru Feb 17!
If it is, it doesn't matter if the estimated methane output 150 million years ago is 100% correct. Its effect on the climate would still be unpredictable.
Set your phasers on "funky"!
But on another note, given slashdot's accuracy ratio on summary-to-original-article, how the hell could you possibly know what it's actually about.
Here is a link to the original article.
When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
Only humans are the problem! I refuse to share credit with some overgrown reptiles.
When are we just going to admit that "They" have finally killed the freedom of speech in this country. It doesn't matter what your opinion is, how intelligent you are, or what you believe, you no longer have the "right" to believe it, unless you threaten to rally a few hundred people together with clubs and smash windows, then you can believe anything you want to.
I must be missing something here, because I'm struggling to figure out what the difference is between plants going through the digestive tracts of ruminants, where bacterial flora break down the carbohydrates, cellulose and hemi-cellulose into carbon dioxide, methane and other gases, and natural decay/composting, where bacterial flora break down the carbohydrates, cellulose and hemi-cellulose into carbon dioxide, methane and other gases.
Is the ratio of gases vastly different between ruminant digestion and 'natural' decay? Do dinosaur farts have a much higher methane-to-CO2 ratio than, say, a peat marsh does? Or a forest? Did the existence of ruminants change the landscape in a way that lowered or raised background, "natural decay caused" methane production? And how certain can we be that the intestinal flora of sauropods were the same as those of cows and antelope today? Reptile digestion differs from mammalian digestion today - why wouldn't it be different 65 million years ago?
It's an interesting thought experiment, but considering it's not easily falsifiable, not so scientific. Sounds like another way to jump on the climate change bandwagon without all that pesky real-world data to deal with.
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I mean seriously, I read about this shit in contact kids or boys life 20 years ago.
They would destroy forests, fart all the time and breathe fire! Not to mention that asteroid just a few years later went SMASH! right into their destructive kingdom. So the moral of all of this is that everything can change climate, but who the hell cares if there's going to be an asteroid coming to crash down on earth, wiping almost all of existence and nearly permanently covering the world into an iceland (or greenland, however you like to see it).
Well, A cow does on average releases 100 kg of Methane per year. In total this would beat out the dinosaurs by far. Evolution may not be so smart after all. But hey, we need the cows.
The obvious solution therefore, is to simply have climate change theorists stop exhaling. If you want to help, just shut up and plant a tree.
All this talk of increased CO2 is obviously not helping!
A global warming science at its best.
Of course it is possible.
There is in fact a perfect analogy. This is analogous to how oxygen producing cyanobacteria changed the world. Read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Oxygenation_Event
It may not be true here for methane, but one cannot dismiss the idea that readily.
Just a thought.
Large numbers of herbivores, are consistent across the fossil record. As are billions of plant eating insects and zillions of methane producing bacteria. Therefore the methane product should be relatively consistent, and constant element in the climate. Since the climate swings between a relatively defined temperature band, the methane is obviously accounted for in the system making this a non-story.
What the article says is that they assumed dinosaurs produced methane. They assumed the amount of methane. They assumed the climate behaves exactly as it would today. They assumed that their models are correct.
Does this mean dinosaurs are terrorists? http://politics.slashdot.org/story/12/05/05/156234/panetta-labels-climate-change-a-national-security-threat
And will the US will be declaring war on dinosaurs? ...
Sadly, I suspect it will
One small thing; If these "mathematical models" have anything to do with assuming Sauropods farted proportionally as much as industrial cows, I'd politely disagree and want more proof. Sauropods ate what they were designed to eat; most cows do not. If they take a grass fed and naturally pastured cow, if not wild (not corn and grain fed and stressed to the max) and calculate based on the amount of flatulence those cows produce, I'd be more convinced. There's a reason conventional cows have to be given daily antibiotics in their "feed" and that's because they shouldn't be eating that food in the first place. Affect bowels? You bet your gassy, grain fed ass it does.
The Telegraph reported it and that particular rag is known for fudging more than a few things here and there. I would say nothing to see here, move along.
first they warmed us with their farts. now they are warming us again with their fossil fuel remains. those stinking dinosaurs burn me up! :)
That's why I eat so much beef. We should prevent the cows from causing another Ice Age. Take that vegetarians!
About anything having to do with the climate!?
Bwahahahahaha!!!!
I always love to look up the context for quotes. So tell me...where did this quote come from? When did the word "treated" get "added" in? Obviously, the word "treated" is the source of all the consternation, with folks jumping to believe that the word implies sending skeptics away to hospitals (as cpu6502 alleges). Where is the proper context, so that we may determine what capacity "treated" was being used in?
Let's start with the Register. (lol, half a step above the Daily Mail!)
"Resistance at individual and societal levels must be recognized and treated"
Which links to the university press release
"Resistance at individual and societal levels must be recognized before real action can be taken to effectively address threats facing the planet from human-caused contributions to climate change."
Which links to this presentation.
"What social factors drive ongoing environmental degradation? Existing scientific conversations have generally failed to include psychological understanding of individual behavior, or sociological insights regarding culture and social organization. This session highlights key psychological and sociological concepts essential to understanding social inaction. We integrate research on relational trust, social normative beliefs and cultural and political-economic constraints on pro-environmental action."
I ctrl-f'd for "treat" but found nothing except the original Register quote. I also ctrl-f'd for "hospital" and found nothing. And the original Register "quote" wasn't even quoting her.
:(){
The atmospheric methane time series is not a straight upward trajectory like CO2. Although the overall trend is upward, suggesting human causes. Cow farts, melting permafrost, natural gas well leakage are suggested sources of methane. Methane is reactive and decays fast, in about 20 years, so it must be replenished.
Dinosaurs break wind, news at 5!
Slashdot and theRegister editorial stances are primarily Libertarian Conservative. There are exceptions. The commenters are all over the map, from Conservative, to Centrist, to Liberal, to Certifiable. Conservatives aren't "Bashed" more than anybody else, except for maybe the Certifiables, usually Anonymous Cowards.
"I'm conservative (most of us over 40 are)," is just dead wrong. Most of the people that _I_ know that are over 40 are Centrist to Liberal. But again, there are exceptions. There is not much Tea Party presence around where I live, and the Occupiers here have a huge contingent of Little Old Ladies and Aging Hippies.
"yet I agree global warming is a problem and it can be attributed to human activity." Good, a basis for discussion.
"However, "cute" articles like this ("Oh look little Tommy - dinosaurs, and it's about Global Warming, so I can feel good about myself reading it) are nothing more than fluff pieces that make self-righteous Eurotrash feel informed, and your post is just more inane karma whoring."
"cute", "Fluff Pieces", "Eurotrash", (Eurotrash?? Do you even know what the term means?) "Inane Karma Whoring" Well, forget about a basis for discussion.
Posting as Anonymous Coward. But not one of the Certifiables.
If we make all politicians play the silent game, do you think global temperatures will drop?
"...Dinosaurs May Have Changed Climate"?
May Have?! You can take that to the bank! The lady dinosaurs just glared at the offending males and the local temperature dropped by, oh, 7-8 degrees right there!
Scientists believe this behavioural trait may have been conserved too. More studies are pending!
I'll stop getting bean burritos
In the news today, bean farmers around the world have been hard hit by a global warming tariff placed on their produce. There have also been reports of bean farmers being attacked by herds of irate greenies, blaming their product for the imminent drowning of... ummm... never mind the science damn it, it's bound to be dangerous.
The days were shorter several million years ago, and presumably the nights were, too. If there's evidence of the last of the dinosaurs being killed by something heat related and there's evidence of high levels of atmospheric methane, does it also discount a reduced cool off period for the planet due to its rotation? Elevated temperatures reduce a liquid medium's ability to hold dissolved gasses, so what's to say that oceanic belches ala Lake Nyos didn't do much of the population in? Do they have samples whose isotopic signatures absolutely rule out other methane sources, or is this just more Slashdot quality journalism? Have they ever found and cultured any dinosaur intestinal flora to determine if they would have produced the methane they're speculating?
We made up some math problems, and it says stuff. We can't prove any of it, but it has the words "climate change," "methane," and "dinosaurs" in it, so we must be awesome. Right? Can we have more money now?
Vote monkeys into Congress. They are cheaper and more trustworthy.
Vegetation can grow very quickly under some circumstances; we all know the denier line that "CO2 is plant food". Which, of course, is absolutely true and wonderful, as long as you overlook the fact that it is also poison to animals adapted to current atmospheric conditions.
You're serious? You do realise that we animals breathe out CO2, don't you? That we don't completely expel the air in our lungs, so you can do whatever you like to the outside concentration of CO2 and it won't even begin to affect the levels that we're actually breathing?
Business/App ideas are like arseholes: everyone's got one, they're mostly shit, but very rarely they contain a diamond
I didn't know that methane was producing dinosaurs! :-o
They were actually dinosaurs that let one loose next to the camp fire
We call them doubleplusgood outer party members whose devotion to Big Brother allows them to have faith in the pronouncements of minitrue
through the most excellent and loyal excersise of doublethink. Chocolate ration this month is 5 grams. It has always been 5 grams it will always be 5 grams.
Those who can't understand this simple reality will be sent to minilove for reeducation.
Thankyou for your attention.
Argument inspired by gaseous dinosaurs:
.: If one eats less fibrous vegetation, then one produces less methane, and therefore has a reduced carbon footprint.
.: Livestock have high carbon footprints
.: Vegans are bad, because they waste livestock and increase carbon footprint.
.: A cannibal that eats vegans and is a carnivore is improving the environment by reducing carbon footprint.
1) Methane is a greenhouse gas
2) Eating fibrous vegetation creates methane
3) Creation of methane increases your carbon footprint.
+ 1) Livestock eat much fibrous vegetation.
++ 1) Decreasing carbon footprint is good.
++ 2) Killing livestock that have high carbon footprints decrease carbon footprint.
++ 3) Waste is bad.
++ 4) Eating livestock that have been killed to decrease carbon footprint does not waste the livestock.
++ 5) Vegans do not eat or kill livestock.
Conversely: Carnivores are good for the environment because they do not eat fibrous vegetation, and they do not waste livestock, which they kill, thereby reducing carbon footprints.
1) Some people are carnivores
2) Some carnivores eat vegans.
3) Vegans increase carbon footprint which is bad.
4) A person who eats people is a cannibal
Confidentiality, Integrity, Availability: without Availability the other two are assured, as is Bankruptcy.
Ha! Next, I suppose, they'll be blaming cows for climate change!
"your denial of the original statement"
Where did I deny the original statement?
"or not believe in it"
I do believe in science... That is also why I don't dismiss the possibility that organismally produced gasses may alter climate. I also suggested that this may not be the case here, but that the analogy still is valid.
"You're saying 'cyanobacteria'. The article on wikipedia says 'we just don't know'."
The Wikipedia article said "The rising oxygen levels may have wiped out a huge portion of the Earth's anaerobic inhabitants at the time. Cyanobacteria, by producing oxygen that was toxic to anaerobic organisms, were essentially responsible for what was likely the largest extinction event in Earth's history."
That doesn't mean it is true, however. It is a working hypothesis that does explain the rise of the oxygen.