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Microsoft Blocks 3d-Party Browsers In Windows RT, Says Mozilla Counsel
nk497 writes "Mozilla has accused Microsoft of trying to go back to the 'digital dark ages' by limiting rival browsers in the ARM version of Windows 8. Third-party browsers won't work in the desktop mode, and Metro style browsers will be limited in what APIs they can use, said Mozilla general counsel Harvey Anderson, forcing users to move to IE instead. Mozilla said it was the first step toward a new platform lock-in that 'restricts user choice, reduces competition and chills innovation,' and pointed out that such browser control was exactly what upset EU and U.S. regulators about IE in the first place. Anderson called on Microsoft to 'reject the temptation to pursue a closed path,' adding 'the world doesn't need another closed proprietary environment.'"
As the ARM version of Windows 8 is meant to be used on lighter, less powerful devices like tablets, there's a good reason to maintain some quality control and put limits.
First, there's security. Microsoft isn't banning browser per se, it is limiting access to APIs that might be insecure and could be used for hacking the system. Seeing how infested Android devices are with malware, this is a very good decision from Microsoft and doesn't differ any from Android or iOS (which don't allow standard Windows programs at all).
Secondly, if Microsoft allowed this, then Mozilla would just recompile their browser for ARM. They would not consider the limitations of the devices nor would they make Firefox use less resources. Seeing how bloat Firefox already is, this is a good thing.
Just like Mozilla states, Microsoft does not restrict them from making a metro-compatible browser. As you may know, Metro apps need to be done explicitly Metro in mind. It has different APIs from standard Windows APIs and is much more secured. As Metro UI is the main UI used on devices like tablets, this is a good thing.
Whooo, party in 3d! Always knew Microsoft had a stick up their ass, but now they're trying to limit us to two-dimensional parties.
after installing install add ons it wants to restart these is not on the chrome.
Can I install a different browser on a Chromebook? Can I install a different browser in iOS? Heck, Apple bans ANY app that duplicates functionality that Apple provides.
Why is MS always being held to a double-standard that others aren't?
People will beat MS up over bundling... but I don't see anybody on Slashdot going "Apple stifles competition! Google bundles Maps inside Search and there's no way to uninstall it or integrate a different mapping service into it!"
But hey... this is Slashdot. They'll use show a picture of the world's biggest philanthropist as a borg... and then they'll whine about how one single post that is vaguely defending MS is PROOF that Slashdot is overrun with MS shills.
Whatever bro.
http://dafunion.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/pilot.jpg
So we can get around Microsoft's managerial convulsions.
Please do not read this sig. Thank you.
It's the Firefox prototype anyway.
== Jez ==
Do you miss Firefox? Try Pale Moon.
Skip windows 8.
Ignore windows RT.
Does Apple allow non-safari based browsers on IOS?
The world collectively pissed itself in delight over Apple's closed proprietary environment. The clueless twits who threw their freedom away in exchange for "cool" have made similar environments acceptible in the minds of the clueless majority. You can't expect Microsoft to not take advantage of this. If anyone complains, they can just point at Apple and say "they started it!"
I actually RTFA because I thought it was odd and I was curious on how Windows could block browsers from a technical standpoint.
The article leads to a Mozilla blog from which in turns links to another blog on from Microsoft which in no ways mention limiting browsers on Windows for Arm. So this quite strong claim has no actual source.
Apple does it and Apple is a strong enough competitor on low powered devices that MS can't be faulted for exploiting a monopoly. When competitors agree, the consumer gets screwed.
Wake me up when Apple listen too and allow other browsers.
- http://www.milkme.co.uk
Apple restricted browsing to Safari for at least the first couple years of the iPhone OS, now iOS, before they allowed a couple third party browsers into the App Store. This isn't really any different. MS can always change later once they've established a certain level of quality over the platform.
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=435013 fix this, *then* you can blame other parties. Currently, *YOU* are 'restricts user choice', the reason at least one large Carrier does not allow the usage of Firefox, because it generates way to much supportcalls on an internal network with HP iLO that all have the same serial in their certificate.
OSX only ships with Safari....and you slashtards don't whine about that. Plenty of software manufacturers only do this, or that. Everyone here knows that Windows 8 won't be a big hit - like Vista wasn't either, so it's marketshare will be very small. Thus, the whole argument is moot - outside of people bashing MS.
...by any means.
WinPho 7 (and above) have explicitly never supported alternative browsers either.
This sig left unintentionally blank.
As long as the industry supports the current Intellectual Property and copyrights I find this to be just more noise between giants. It used to be that you could count on seventeen years of exclusive rights, now it's gone mad. There will be no new innovations until creators don't have to spend more time with patent research and lawyers than actual breakthrough practice. Patent trolls are the new sharks on the seas of technology. Hell, how many new cancer cures have we seen in the last six months alone ? anything available yet ? oh right, treatments not cures for the masses...it's all about the money...
Why doesn't Mozilla stop complaining and write their own operating system?
They have a good enough track record in the security area to be trusted blindly by the population.
That is funny
What's good for the goose is good for the gander. We only marginally complained when Apple did this exact same thing. Get over it.
There is money to be made from selling an operating system, but there is a lot more to be made in controling an ecosystem of interrelated products. Apple showed this, and with the huge success (Both in market share and financially) they enjoyed, it's hardly surprising that Microsoft would want to follow the same path. The move to ARM allows them to get away with things they could never do on x86/64. Control of a popular browser gives them much power to advance other products (like Bing, or h264) or to hinder competitors (by introducing IE-exclusive features to break compatibility) - and it's only good business sense to take advantage of a rare chance to completly remake the industry in a way that favors themselves
then they'll whine about how one single post that is vaguely defending MS is PROOF that Slashdot is overrun with MS shills.
You mean like your post, which reads, "Wahh wahh nobody criticizes Apple so Microsoft should not be criticized either!" even though Apple bashing is a favorite activity here on Slashdot?
Palm trees and 8
...oh wait.
. . . nor does anyone else who goes out of their way to install Mozilla Firefox, Google Chrome, Safari, or Opera. People who install those browsers quite simply DO NOT WANT INTERNET EXPLORER.
I don't want to use MSIE even if MSIE had a plugin that will build me an island and then fucking transform into a jet and fly me there. If I don't need to access an ActiveX app, I simply do not want to use MSIE!!
Got that, Microsoft?
The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
Seems quite common on /. these days that the First Post is a deliberate wind-up, as if from a MS shill for example as in this topic.
I guess these are deliberate plants, to get the discussion going.
I thought all third party apps were restricted from running in desktop mode in WinRT. In fact, I believe that every application has to use approved APIs and such... WinRT is supposed to be a walled garden, not unlike that found in iOS.
This is outrageous, I mean I LOVE all of the different browsers that came with my iPhone! Why is Micro$oft being such evil corporate jerks?!?!?!
Que?
... be ported to linux? ... isn't this the real solution?
3D gives me headaches anyway.
What do I know, I'm just an idiot, right?
He IS a shill or a troll. He specifically created the account to post here and his post was within the minute. He has one submitted article about "How EA Helped a Transgender Transition Inside EA Sports" as if that would make me him a usual member of the community or something.
"Science can amuse and fascinate us all, but it is engineering that changes the world. " - Asimov.
iOS on the iPad is NOT a completely open Unix OS. WindowsRT is Microsoft's IOS.
How does it tell the difference between a "rival" browser and any random application which uses a TCP/IP transport?
Makes good click bait headlines, but they are not blocking 3rd party browsers. They are blocking everyone from adding software to run on the windows classic desktop, and instead forcing them to write software for the "Metro" desktop.
Likely the only reason the classic desktop is even there, is Microsoft could not rewrite Office fast enough. It will likely be gone in 2-3 years. Not allowing anyone to develop for it is actually a smart move.
Don't worry, you can just erase the devices and install an OS of your choice. This will allow you to use the purchased device in whatever way you see fit.
Oh wait.
Everyone will be wanting to important European 'N' versions for their ARM-based system; won't have Windows Media Player (who cares if you don't have the codecs anyway) but it won't have anti-competitive restrictions (that's how Neelie Kroes rolls!).
This is the story that inspired my sig!! Because WindowsRT makes just as much sense.
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
no not funny. Sadly its true. most people would trust Microsoft because that is who they use and have used for years. sad but true
---Saying gnome 3 is better than windows 8 not so much a compliment as it is damning with light praise.
ARM version - dubbed Windows RT[...]Rival browsers won't be allowed on the "classic" desktop
Windows RT supporting the classic desktop is news to me. Windows RT was meant to ONLY allow metro apps, but I guess one may need a way to fall-back if the metro web-browser breaks something. Then IE in the desktop mode will continue to work.
1) MS says "No desktop for Windows RT"
2) MS says Metro web browsers, including IE, have limited API access to keep the system secure
3) MS says "Ohh, shit, we need a "safe mode" incase shit hits the fan, lets allow desktop mode, but only let IE to operate"
4) Community goes ape shit because MS doesn't want 3rd parties to f*ck with their safe mode
This sounds about right
It must be like owning an iPad! Also, surely it can only block known browsers
Internet Explorer only support 32 stylesheets, can't dinamically change the innerHTML of a TR row, don't register deletion of elements inside optgroup, don't apply the stylesheets of styles added dynamically and a hundred billion other bugs that shows is not a true DHTML browser. Its also a risk of virus and other malware infection. As a webmaster I think theres nothing worse than a whole genre of devices gimped to use IE, the "no-browser".
-Woof woof woof!
What happened is that MS realized that there was no way they could port Office to Metro in time for the Window RT release. But they want to push the availability of Office on Windows RT as one of it's major selling points over the iPad. On the other hand, there was no way they could port all the legacy Windows APIs to ARM in time to allow developers to build desktop applications in general, and even if they could they don't want to.
So instead, they are porting just enough of the legacy APIs to support Office, IE, and the desktop shell, but are keeping them private and only allowing their applications to use them. Office 15 for Windows 8 will be themed to fit in well with Metro but will be a classic (desktop) application.
You ARE the cancer that is killing slashdot. No one could EVER post something pro-that-thing-I-hate without getting payed to unless they are just trying to get a rise out of me! Go kill yourself.
Is there any reason or Windows on ARM other than copying Apple? The only reason people use x86 Windows is for its ecosystem. The Windows on ARM will not have any better ecosystem than Windows on PopwerPC, MIPS, Alpha had and they all died and too much reliance on Windows killed the chips also. Fortunately, ARM has no reliance on Windows.
Free market advocates are quite often very smart people, I admit. They're 90th, maybe 95th percentile and above for intelligence. And they, reasonably, see everyone else as relatively stupid, and they also disdain the average man, knowing that they can outsmart and outcompete them. Ironically, at the same time they think that the force of the market, which is overwhelmingly a sum of the urges of these relatively stupid, disdainful people, is going to drive things in a good direction. A bit o' paradox there, eh?
The market brought you The Great Web Languish by letting IE be dominant for a dozen years. Web tech was seriously retarded and OS infections were rampant. Imagine how much time would have been saved in system reinstalls, and how much further along web technology would be today? Just one example of how we all got screwed by the market.
Putting the market on a pedestal and catering to it doesn't make the world a better place. Well, it might make your little world a better funded place and maybe more pleasant. Mostly. Until the market's stupidity defiles the greater environment enough that you get poisoned too. You can be 95th percentile smart and still not recognize that what's good for everyone is good for you.
You don't like it, build your own OS.
Why is it everyone picks on Microsoft ?
Apple can reject ANY app they want, they force a browser etc.. But its all OK because its APPLE ?
Any device not designed 20yrs ago will be inside a closed environment...
Facebook/etc Everything has restrictions based on API's.
Android Boot Loader locking..
Its time to get over it..
Apple/PS3/etc all have controlled software.. Why can't microsoft WinRT arm control their software ?
If you don't like it, then buy another device.
In the end consumers want SECURE, controlled OS/Device.. Thats why iOS sells so well.
Its simple, controlled, restricted, but it works.
WinRT should be allowed to do the same..
If you don't like it run LINUX on your phone/computer/tablet... Nobody is stopping you..
Microsoft, like every hopeful in the tablet space and many other desktop environments, is encouraging developers to write apps using HTML5, CSS, and JavaScript. That does not make Windows 8 a browser-based O.S. like ChromeOS, you don't know what you're talking about. There's still a distinct I.E. browser app that you start from Metro. What you say is as ridiculous as claiming you it makes no sense to run other browsers in Gnome 3, or Plasma Active, or any other desktop that's allowing or encouraging JavaScript widgets and extensions.
Mozilla already has preliminary builds of Firefox running as a Windows 8 Metro application, you can follow along with the developers as they integrate it with Windows 8 Metro's tiles and charm/contracts for sharing and searching. The issue is
=S
So what the heck are you asking yet again?
Hell, you're probably one of the ones who were saying, all through the court case, "Microsoft don't have a monopoly! I can get Apple Mac! I can get Linux! I can get OS2 Warp!".
That you haven't changed your tune since then is no surprise.
And they will use that to ensure that they have a monopoly on ARM (if you don't agree to MS's Windows-only requirement on ARM, you won't get any windows OSes) and that ARM monopoly will ensure a browser monopoly.
They are STILL using their deskop OS monopoly THEY STILL HAVE to gain one in ARM.
Do you wait until AFTER someone is murdered before telling the police there's a dangerous maniac with a machette, because there's only a crime AFTER he's killed someone, not before?
Isn't that exactly what MS got in trouble for before? Isn't a set of "private APIs" what MS apologists insisted weren't there (and never noted that more were released after "all APIs were released") and an abuse of Monopoly?
Isn't it the only reason why IE and Office *have* to be on RT because they're on Windows desktop (only) and therefore will benefit from their desktop monopoly if it can run the same programs?
Isn't that leveraging their desktop OS monopoly?
So where is MS listening and allowing other browsers here? Or do you demand that Apple go first, and that Microsoft MUST NOT *ever* be better than Apple?
whom the gods wd destroy, they first make arrogant.
I can't understand why, someone who don't want to use MSIE, want to use tablet OS by Microsoft.
Just don't use it. It doesn't have any market share anyway.