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Is Gamification a Good Motivator?

CowboyRobot writes "Growing up, many of our teachers used gamification techniques such as a gold star sticker on a test (essentially a badge) or a public display of which students had completed a set of readings (leaderboard). These were intended to motivate students to strive to do better. Now, these techniques are increasingly common in the workplace where the parallel with computer games is more intentional. A report by Gartner predicts that 'by 2015, 50% of organizations that manage innovation processes will gamify those processes.' One example would be assigning badges for submitting work on time, another would be having a leaderboard in an office to show who completed a training module first. The idea of using game mechanics in work or study environments is not new, but its ubiquity is. Educators can discuss how effective gamification is in classrooms, but how useful is it as a motivator in the workplace?"

290 comments

  1. Already done it. by Theophany · · Score: 4, Funny

    We have something similar already where I work, I can goomba colleagues.

    1. Re:Already done it. by Trepidity · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Hell, even the Soviets had already done it, and it didn't work very well. And then in the 1990s there was a whole wave of "make work like play" management books, which didn't do much either, except perhaps inspire the "flair" scene in Office Space. Not sure we need another go at it.

    2. Re:Already done it. by cayenne8 · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Badges at work? Seriously?

      Ok, here it is plain and simple, if I do good, and you want to reward me.....money.

      Plain and simple, THAT is my motivator at work.

      I mean, If I did not need to earn this amount of money to support the lifestyle I'm accustomed to and enjoy, then I'd certainly NOT be working.

      I mean, give me a lottery win that funds me for life, and you'll never see me work again a day in my life, I have way too many hobbies, interest, places I'd like to visit and women I'd like to bang to be stuck somewhere working if I didn't have to.

      So, if you want to reward me...keep your plaques, you're tiny plastic 'atta-boy' awards or gold stars. Hand me cash, and I'll feel appreciated and motivated.

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    3. Re:Already done it. by DuckDodgers · · Score: 2

      Actually, there have been studies done. If you pay people less than market rate, their performance sucks. But if you pay them above market rate, their performance does not improve. The way to get people to work more efficiently and with more creativity is to give them respect, as much autonomy as possible, and as much interesting work as possible. Look up "Punished by Rewards" by Alfie Kohn.

    4. Re:Already done it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, but if they give cash-money awards, you'll be one pissed-off motherlover if it seems like there is even a slight amount of favoritism. They have to give non-money rewards, because otherwise rewarding one person with cash will just piss everybody off.

    5. Re:Already done it. by lxs · · Score: 1

      This is why we can't have nice things.
      Damn gold farmers.

    6. Re:Already done it. by DigiTechGuy · · Score: 2, Interesting

      This is similar to studies I've read abotu money buying happiness. Money does most certainly buy happiness. Well, up to about $88k/yr it does. After that, it does not buy a significant amount of additional happiness. I'm sure the number varies a bit depending on cost of living in your area, but I live ina very expensive part of the country to live, and government takes well over half my pay in taxes. As I get closer to $88k a year I find myself less disgruntled at work and generally happier aboth at work and in life.

      At $88k I could afford to have nice things and enjoy a few hobbies. Where I'm at now, I'm getting close to being able to afford nice things, like keeping the heat above 50* in winter, eating meat more than once a week, maybe painting my car so it looks nice and isn't rusty, have a few hobbies, own a TV, maybe even a cable TV package, etc. At $88k those problems disappear and life gets a lot more comfortable. Sure I'd still want things, but I'd actually be able to prioritize my wants and save for the ones I want the most, and maybe even get some of those wants some day.

      So for me, money is a huge motivator and it lasts a long time. So long as the company is treating me well and giving decent raises where I can see myself soon at a level of not having to worry about money for necessities and maybe a few "nice things" I will remember that every time I get irritated or my motivation falls. It has been maybe 6 months since last raise season and another 6 months to go but my last raise and the prospect of another good raise is still a very big motivator for me. I'm a principled person, so cannot do wrong to a company that is doing right by me.

    7. Re:Already done it. by jythie · · Score: 2

      *nods* that tends to be one of big issues. If you are going to have a reward system you need some kind of metric by which to reward people. In sales it can kinda work since you have that bottom line sales number.. but other departments get trickier and metrics can favor behavior that doesn't really improve things or seriously favors particular personality types.

      Which gets into the other way that a lot of these methods can backfire. Adding a competitive element to the workplace like leader-boards work really well for some personality types but really horribly for others. I have seen people quit over a new boss trying to implement such systems.

    8. Re:Already done it. by cayenne8 · · Score: 1

      Money does most certainly buy happiness.

      Yeah..but it sure makes misery a whole lot easier to handle. I'd rather be rich and unhappy, than poor and unhappy (and everyone has bad times)...being poor just makes it worse.

      Money itself doesn't make you happy...but the things it enables you to DO and how you can live can make you quite happy.

      I'm not satisfied with the amount I make yet, I guess I would never be until I had enough money where I didn't have to work, and could spend all my free hours doing what "I" wanted to do.

      But I'm making enough to make something nice....I like that I don't have to worry about what everyday things cost. I never look at a gas pump for instance...I really don't know what a gallon of gas costs lately. I just stick a card in, and pump. It is a necessity of life. I like that I don't have to look at prices when I shop for food and drink. I actually DO look, just due to liking to get a good deal and I like to cook...I start off looking at the grocery circulars weekly, and plan my meals by what's on sale, just a hold over in personality from my college days.

      But, unlike those days...I don't count what I'm putting in the cart...and at the checkout...I don't really pay attention to what the total is if I'm charging. If I have cash, I count it out, but honestly, I'm not even making a mental note of how much the total was.....

      Reaching that level....has been nice.

      I still want more. I hate that I still have to worry about how much a new car I'd like costs...I hate looking at my budget for a new tv or high end camera, or computer or tory...etc.

      Hoping I can get to that point in a few years...working hard to get there.

      I'd never work another day in my life if I didn't have to....so, since I do have to work...it has to be worth it, and I'll do whatever I need to get that reward...jump jobs, work for self...etc.

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    9. Re:Already done it. by cayenne8 · · Score: 1

      *nods* that tends to be one of big issues. If you are going to have a reward system you need some kind of metric by which to reward people. In sales it can kinda work since you have that bottom line sales number.. but other departments get trickier and metrics can favor behavior that doesn't really improve things or seriously favors particular personality types.

      Well, it's not like the company has to tell everyone what they gave out for monetary rewards.

      Hell, i'd think a company that did that would be stupid....just for the reasons you mentioned.

      Personally, I could not care less what co-workers think about me, or where I "stand' in the office rankings or what title or position I have.....I just care about the money I'm bringing in....

      Don't get me wrong, I'm friendly to nice co-workers, first one there with a joke or say howdy...but if it comes to them or my money...well....

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    10. Re:Already done it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm sorry, but you too are a dumb half evolved ape, same as everyone else. You, and anyone with this attitude, will respond just as well to these. I know I will, it's a reward, yay! Of course it DOES matter on how it's presented. A specific reward might not work for you, I don't like achievements on the 360 for example. But if I'm playing Forza I sure as heck am going to get those Gold Medals! Don't fool yourself, don't even try. You may as well self acknowledge that there are ways you can be easily and simply amused and motivated rather than deluding yourself into thinking you are "above" that. Because your dna is 99 point something percent identical to mine and everyone elses, and somewhere in there are the right A's and T's and etc. to get you to enjoy trivial, extremely short term rewards.

    11. Re:Already done it. by DuckDodgers · · Score: 1

      I understand what you're saying. Money is extremely important - I can't be happy if I can't eat, I can't be happy if I can't pay the rent. But when you pay people more money the quality and speed of their work does not improve unless they were underpaid before. If the prevailing wage for a junior developer is $60,000, paying him $40,000 will get you shoddy work relative to what he or she can do at their best. Paying him or her $60,000 will get you reasonable work relative to their skill level. Paying him $90,000 will not improve their work. You'll get a temporary bump in the first few weeks after the raise (or bonus), but then things will return to status quo. Once he is paid at or above market rate, getting better work out of him requires making the work more interesting, making the work environment more pleasant, and giving him as much self-governance as possible.

      The problems with rewards are like this:

      1. People focused on rewards tend to take less risks. It stifles creativity because you're afraid of losing the reward, so you do exactly what you're told in the way you were told to do it.
      2. People focused on rewards tend to lose interest in the work itself and focus more on the reward. So offering someone more money to administer servers makes them happy about money but less interested, in general, in learning the best methods to administer servers, less interested in reading about server administration in their spare time, less interested in learning new things, etc... This is why the person who gets into hacking (using the non-perjorative meaning of the term) for the joy of it generally tends to be more skilled than the guy who only does it for money, even if the guy who only does it for money is otherwise exceedingly intelligent.
      3. People focused on rewards tend to be more competitive with their coworkers. That competitiveness breaks down teamwork, and since all of us can accomplish more as a well organized group than we can as motivated individuals working alone, it's counter-productive.
      4. The mere action of giving rewards and announcing rewards to people tends to make them consciously or subconsciously resent the fact that the person giving the rewards has clear authority over them. We don't like having other people in a position of power over us.

      Again, check out the book I listed above or find others like it. The argument the author makes is compelling. And while there are lies, damn lies, and statistics, my semi-informed read of his statistical evidence to back up his theories is that they're solid.

    12. Re:Already done it. by coredog64 · · Score: 1

      I'm currently managing 8 employees who have a a job with a clear-cut, objective performance measure. I tried implementing an anonymous leaderboard only to have them all rebel against it.

    13. Re:Already done it. by AtomicAdam · · Score: 1

      While I agree with money being the best way to reward someone at work (for why else would they work). I know that if I were to come into a large sum of money, I would continue to work. Maybe just at a different place.. but maybe not... I feel like I make a difference where I'm at. I would certainly fund open source projects.


      I guess I just find your goals very childish.

    14. Re:Already done it. by kbx911 · · Score: 0

      exactly, on most crowdsourcing scam sites they give us "badges" as if to say, "here chump, you did very well for us and all your ideas won us a lot of money, now here you go, enjoy your little badge" i just wish there was an international body with authority or force to take down scam sites like squadhelp.com and prizes.org they're simply scamming people off their money and ideas and handing out fucking badges mofos

    15. Re:Already done it. by kbx911 · · Score: 0

      or probably ill just contact LulzSec, prizes.org has proved numerous times that they are anti-lulz

  2. It is like TPS cover sheets. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    It's really a shame system. If you don't have enough gold stars or silver turds or whatever, you look bad and might get fired.

    That's an entirely different thing to being motivated, unless you consider jumping through stupid manager-invented hoops just to keep your job motivation.

    1. Re:It is like TPS cover sheets. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

      We need to talk about your flair. 15 is the minimum. Now it's up to you if you want to do the minimum... but Brian over there, for example, has 37 pieces of flair.

      And a terrific smile.

    2. Re:It is like TPS cover sheets. by Nursie · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Yup. It's a bad system in schools as well. A kid with few to no stars may decide the system just doesn't really seem to apply to him or her, and it becomes a really effective demotivator.

      But in the workplace?

      Hell no, I am not a child. Maybe if you have an office full of recent grads that need to be corralled into behaving themselves, but not in an engineering lab with experience and self-imposed discipline.

    3. Re:It is like TPS cover sheets. by lars_stefan_axelsson · · Score: 1

      It's really a shame system. If you don't have enough gold stars or silver turds or whatever, you look bad

      I remember from my stint in the telecoms sector, where there was constant whining that we didn't fill in our time report cards. "Very important, that's how we get paid!". (Yeah right, it all got lumped into one account statement when sent up the ladder anyway).

      So, they decided it was time for some automated shaming. Every month an automatic email got sent that listed how much unreported time you had. And our boss would follow up with the inevitable; "We need to do this, please, pretty please". However, since his name was always pegged at the number two spot on the list (by a wide margin) only bested by *his* boss, it had the opposite effect. Quite a few of us realised that we didn't really need to do it weekly as our bosses and co-workers apparently couldn't be bothered to do it monthly even... Shaming fail. :-)

      --
      Stefan Axelsson
    4. Re:It is like TPS cover sheets. by mdarksbane · · Score: 2

      Seems like one of those things that's going to motivate some people and not others.

      I had a teacher who would call people to the front of the classroom to pick up their papers. "There were 3 C's. Joey, Rachel, Janet. There were 5 B's..." and so forth.

      As an A-student and proud of it, it felt really, really good to be the last one called up, especially on an assignment where I'd really had to work for it.

      I imagine that the kids who consistently received F's felt very differently about it.

    5. Re:It is like TPS cover sheets. by thesandtiger · · Score: 2

      It's worse in a school system - there, you have people at various levels of development and who have very differing levels of support at home. Yet, because it is a school and because they are children, you have to take into account those differences and handle each child on an individual basis. Is it fair to give Jimmy gold stars because he does his homework every day (with help from his caring and dedicated mom), but give Johnny only one or two silver stars because he wasn't able to bring in his homework (because his mom has to work nights and half the time he winds up going to bed hungry and has bigger things to worry about than whether he gets homework done)?

      As someone who works in an academic environment and who is friends with many teachers at all levels, it's really a vexing problem. How do you account for the fact that from one kid turning in homework every day is the minimum one can expect, while for another kid just showing up most days is a serious accomplishment while not being generally unfair?

      At one school I know of they handle this by giving report cards that aren't grades but rather written evaluations of each student and what they're doing well and what they need to work on, which take whatever factors they are aware of into consideration. Takes a lot more effort for all involved, but it's generally fair and it avoids the problem of a kid being judged by a system that has no way to account for his or her particular obstacles to success.

      Personally, I think ranking kids is absolutely stupid because it assumes some kind of even playing field in all areas outside of school, which just isn't so. I know that sentiment will piss off people who think that kids being given a trophy just for participating is enabling a generation of special snowflakes, but those same people really have no fucking clue just how bad it can be for many kids. /rant

      In the workplace, at least, people are ostensibly adults and there's a general rule that your personal shit isn't relevant since it's business.

      --
      Since I can't tell them apart, I treat all ACs as the same person.
    6. Re:It is like TPS cover sheets. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Assuming that your co-workers have matured.

    7. Re:It is like TPS cover sheets. by Faerunner · · Score: 0

      How do you think adults learn not to bring their personal shit into the workplace? School is *supposed to* teach them all of those soft skills like communication and being on time and not discussing personal shit while you're working. Of course it's failing, but we should set aside a space in schools for kids to talk about their home and their problems outside the normal classroom environment anyway. Isn't that what counselors should be there for?

      On-topic: Honestly, I didn't like report cards when I was in school and I still don't like them now, and I think that offering real rewards (like "Hey, our office/branch/store gets more money to spend on cool stuff to do with you guys if you do your jobs well (as measured by total $$ brought in, and not any single person's performance)", and "We're gonna offer you stock options and bonuses for every year you're with us", and "Here's a discount on your medical benefits for not getting into a work-related accident!") is a much better motivator than some arbitrary system of scorecards and points.

      My last job actually called them scorecards, and the metrics they measured caused bad employee behavior and were in part out of the direct control of employees, which pretty well killed morale - why even try, if you can't win? They'd fire anyone whose scorecard was chronically low, without any consideration toward reasons or whether they could replace the employee (when I left the number of open positions was in the double digits and growing, and new hires stayed less than a month). Then they added an attendance point system, which punished employees for being late or calling off even with medical reasons (a death in the family on a Saturday cost you 2 points just like a hung-over call-off would) while giving one point/month if you weren't late at all. The reward? NOTHING. You got more points, but they capped you at 15 and the full-timers started with 12 anyway. You couldn't trade them in for paid vacation days or a free no-questions-asked day off or to leave early, and calling off remained the same regardless of points - "oh, you can't come in now? Can you come in in two hours?". The points were literally shiny gold stars. They looked good but did nothing. The firings that were supposed to happen when you hit 0 points didn't happen for months after the system was implemented either, and then it only happened if you had 0 points and were also a problem for your managers in some other way.

      It's entirely possible that the scorecards and attendance points could have been managed better and maybe they could have been useful and encouraging but my experience tells me that upper management wouldn't ever want to put the work into that kind of system in order to get good results and that this is probably true for a lot of companies. And considering that games engage us not because of points/coins/rupees/stars but because of what rewards we can buy with those points/coins/rupees/stars.... I'd say the second most important part of "gamifying" your workplace, behind making sure you're measuring actual performance and not loophole-finding, is setting rewards that will encourage participants. And that's gonna cost the company something - free sick days, beach volleyball parties, whatever. From management's view, the challenge is to figure out what is most rewarding to the employees below without costing the company more than the expected increase in productivity will cover. Unfortunately that cuts out a lot of ideal rewards like merit raises, but how much does an extra paid day off cost if you expect a happier, well-rested employee to be more productive the rest of the week?

    8. Re:It is like TPS cover sheets. by geekoid · · Score: 1

      Yes, yes, you are above everyone else in the world. You are a special snow flake that doesn't need recognition.

      To relate gamification to 'gold stars' is ignorant.

      But,as I said, you are 'special'.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    9. Re:It is like TPS cover sheets. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Exactly my thought, what am i 5?

    10. Re:It is like TPS cover sheets. by geekoid · · Score: 1

      But if the teacher implemented gamification,l the A's and B's would work with the 'F's to improve that whole group.
      Humiliation does not work, and never has.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    11. Re:It is like TPS cover sheets. by geekoid · · Score: 1

      Giving gold stars is not gamification.

      Gamification helps everyone in the classroom.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    12. Re:It is like TPS cover sheets. by thesandtiger · · Score: 1

      You can teach kids appropriate boundaries while also acknowledging that their actual performance on tasks may be hampered by outside factors, and taking that into consideration when evaluating performance.

      Let me give you an example from your comment: Being on time. Please explain to me how a 7 year old child is expected to show up on time to classes when their parent or guardian doesn't bother waking them up, doesn't bother making sure they have clothes to wear or food to eat, doesn't bother being a *parent* in any meaningful sense of the word? Are you expecting this child, who may have to walk to school in inclement weather, or through an unsafe area, or face any number of hurdles to getting to school, to be on time? Should this child be penalized if they don't show up on time through no fault of their own?

      That's a hell of a burden to put on a kid who already has much, much, MUCH bigger problems facing them at home, and I don't know about you, but I would be willing to cut them some slack.

      I would tell a child in that situation that because of their home life I wasn't going to penalize them for being tardy, but that I expected, once they did show up, that they would do the best they could and behave correctly. I'd also look into ways to help remedy whatever the problems they have at home, so that they had fewer obstacles to learning, but know that a teacher can only do so much.

      As a mental exercise though, let me ask you - how would you, as an adult, do at regulating your behavior if you only got to eat a handful of french fries and a slice of pizza per day for an entire week? How would you, as an adult, do if you only got 2-3 hours of uninterrupted sleep per night because your home environment was unsafe or loud? I would expect most adults to be an absolute wreck in those circumstances, and we're talking now about people who have much more agency in their circumstances than a child does.

      On topic: I agree with you that any kind of measurement system must offer a meaningful form of compensation, and find it absurd that a workplace would have a system like you mention in place without some kind of reward. What were they thinking?

      Being in the field I'm in I often work with not-for-profit groups that have very little money for bonuses, but even those places find some way to meaningfully recognize achievement of staff members, whether it's something like a paid day off, taking someone out for lunch (even if it's just at Subway), or even just a specific shout-out at a staff meeting. Even as poorly funded as some of these places were, I can't even imagine any of them doing something dumb like that point system you mention, and definitely never one with negatives. Sounds like leaving there was a good thing.

      --
      Since I can't tell them apart, I treat all ACs as the same person.
    13. Re:It is like TPS cover sheets. by AtomicJake · · Score: 1

      It's really a shame system.

      This is one obvious issue. However, my main issue is that such a system fosters competition between employees. I would argue that competition only works well, if the employees do not need to collaborate. Commissions on sales work well, if the employee has an exclusive territory - I would argue that it does not work well, if one employee can snatch the customer from another employee. Sames with those badges etc.

    14. Re:It is like TPS cover sheets. by 4pins · · Score: 1

      I imagine that the kids who consistently received F's felt very differently about it.

      They did!

      The teacher of my senior physics class opened the year by explaining that for the entire first half of the class and the bulk of the second all one needed to know was these three equations. I wrote them down and committed them to memory. The class was a breeze. For me!

      The teacher did a few unusual things for my high school. First, he graded on a curve. Second, he handed back tests in rank order. Mine was always the first or second test back; in addition I turned in all my homework. By the end of the semester I was "setting the curve" by a wide margin and everyone knew it. One day after class there was an intervention.

      This intervention boiled down to one question. "What are you going to do?" I simply responded with, "Let me talk to the teacher."

      So I went to our popular instructor and asked, "Do I really need to take the final?" His surprising response, "That is a good question, let's figure it out." Up came the Grade Book and the what if scenario. If someone else got a perfect score, I would have to receive three percent on the final to keep my A. He then informed me I had to take the test. So back I went to the group of concerned students.

      It was not an easy conversation, however we settled on some middle ground. I would not do any preparation for the final. Of course I knew all I needed was the same three equations I had mastered months earlier; however an agreement where you come out the winner is a good one, or so I thought. Somehow I failed to foresee the dilemma ahead of me.

      I opened up my test, answered the first three questions, and paused. Should I stop now? Answer a few more, just in case? Take the whole test? I then realized that if I stopped, I would have nothing to do for the next two hours. I decided to take the rest of the test, strictly because it was the most entertaining option available to me. Soon I would sit in judgement.

      The first day of the second term our educator saunters to the center of the room, places the stack of finals on his stool and breaks into a long rant. To sum it up, he had expected better of the entire class. Except one! He then grabs the top test and calls my name. It wasn't pretty.

      Yells rang out, "You said you wouldn't study!" Everyone around me turned towards me with murderous looks on their faces. Three students from the other side of the room stood and started in my direction. The teacher's wrath was like a judge trying to keep his court in order; however I was far from safe.

      Hours later, as I left English, some of the people I had helped the most dumped a metal trash can and it contents over my head. In retrospect they were socially well connected and had probably told others that they would handle it, greatly reducing the level of reprisal. In the end I would learn a lesson that had nothing to do with physics.

      If one person shines too brightly, the team tends to fall apart.

      --
      I will not mourn that which I never had to lose. - Unknown
    15. Re:It is like TPS cover sheets. by Faerunner · · Score: 1

      Don't misunderstand - I'm fully in agreement that obstacles in a child's home life can really complicate the things that the school system is supposed to do with and to that child. I don't hold it against any kid when they are late/underfed/dressed poorly. That's the parents' job, not the kids'! We do need to do more to help kids with out-of-school problems, no doubt about it.

      That said, it does not change the idea that schools are -supposed- to teach skills that will help in the workplace. Are they managing it? Not very well. And only part of the problem is coming from the fact that kids have bigger issues than showing up to school on time. The other part is that our school system itself is completely broken. But that's another rant... :)

      As far as what my former workplace was thinking? They weren't. They also do yearly "Employee Engagement" surveys where they get loads of unhappy responses... and then launch "action plans" entirely devised by higher-ups who think that working top-down approaches is going to solve bottom-up problems. If it weren't for the fact that the company was so large and well-known I would be surprised if they lasted another few years... as it stands they'll probably struggle along for another couple of decades before they declare bankruptcy from their mismanagement.

    16. Re:It is like TPS cover sheets. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Better motivator:

      Keep the leaderboard idea, but instead of who completed what insipid task first, or how many stars little Johnny has racked up this week, put the actual salary of your employees up on the board.

      Want to be higher on the leader board? Do better work than those above you.

      Of course, this will never happen because everyone will see the completely unjustified sums of cash that are handed out to the ludicrously clueless "managers" (project, middle, upper, executive, etc) and demand that the leaderboard be set right.

      There's a reason they don't want us to discuss compensation, and it's for their own good we don't.

    17. Re:It is like TPS cover sheets. by gizmo_mathboy · · Score: 1

      At one school I know of they handle this by giving report cards that aren't grades but rather written evaluations of each student and what they're doing well and what they need to work on, which take whatever factors they are aware of into consideration. Takes a lot more effort for all involved, but it's generally fair and it avoids the problem of a kid being judged by a system that has no way to account for his or her particular obstacles to success.

      Exactly.

      That it what progressive education is.

      Not handing out worksheets and testing the little buggers all the time.

      The motivation is the learning process and the acquisition of knowledge in and of itself.

      My wife is a student teacher supervisor/lecturer (she helps make teachers) and she is big on discouraging gold starts, food, and other "material" incentives.

      She tries to teach her students not to use those crutches.

      As you can imagine, it can be a bit of an uphill battle for her.

    18. Re:It is like TPS cover sheets. by TheLink · · Score: 1
      --
    19. Re:It is like TPS cover sheets. by thesandtiger · · Score: 1

      That's a really great approach - when I work with young and often volatile young people in my research we take that kind of tack, but we're only working with one person at a time. I imagine this would be super effective at handling lids pine issues if you have the staff to spare. Thanks for the link.

      --
      Since I can't tell them apart, I treat all ACs as the same person.
  3. Might work for a while by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    But one has to accept that it will work only for a subset. Not everybody is interested to acquire as many badges/friends/top scores as possible. And some that like that in gameplay (leisure) might become desensitized to it when used at work. So perhaps games would need to find new motivators? (Followed by workplaces adopting them again? Lather rinse repeat.)

  4. What about non-gamers? by zarlino · · Score: 1

    Not everybody has a RPG (or other game type) mindset. I'd feel weird if being given a "badge" at work. As in "Wtf is a badge anyway? And why should I care about it?".

    --
    Check out my cross-platform apps
    1. Re:What about non-gamers? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Exactly. It's infantile, and insulting to adult professionals.

      It's the sort of thing that deserves an industrial-strength shower of mockery from the likes of Douglas Coupland ("Microserfs", "JPod") or Scott Adams.

      (And for some reason, this "gamification" topic makes me think of bloody Microsoft Office Communicator, with its bloody "emoticons". This rubbish is for fourteen-year-old Japanese schoolgirls, not for investment banks.)

    2. Re:What about non-gamers? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      (And for some reason, this "gamification" topic makes me think of bloody Microsoft Office Communicator, with its bloody "emoticons". This rubbish is for fourteen-year-old Japanese schoolgirls, not for investment banks.)

      While I agree in general on that, adding an "emoticon" to scathing sarcasm does seem to mitigate political fallout. Although not always, as emails sent to my manager testify.

    3. Re:What about non-gamers? by mwvdlee · · Score: 1

      It depends; does the each badge allow me to leave from work a few minutes earlier? Does a badge allow me to get some free candy from the vending machine? Does it mean I get paid $5 more each month? Does it mean I get to yell at the PHB next meeting? Most likely it's just "This cartboard crap is a lot cheaper than actually rewarding employees".

      --
      Slashdot social media options: AIM, ICQ, Yahoo, Jabber and Mobile Text. Why no MySpace?
    4. Re:What about non-gamers? by delinear · · Score: 1

      Except they probably paid a consultancy firm enough to buy everyone in the business free beer/pizza for a year for them to come up with this cardboard crap. I know which I'd prefer.

    5. Re:What about non-gamers? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They let you command the respect of progressively higher level interns (even once acquired in trades), and some of them let you use "hidden moves" outside of work. Also if you get all 8 you can challenge the board of directors and if you beat them all, become CEO.

    6. Re:What about non-gamers? by geekoid · · Score: 1

      Ah, the issues is you have no idea how to move int he corporate environment.
      I used to think like you, until someone taught me a very important lesson:
      "If your boss puts value on tokens they give out, bring the tokens to your review."
      "Be sure when you want to move to a new position, when talking to some who values tokens, how many tokens you have."
      Sure, a Thank you written on a 100 dollar bill would be better.. but you play with what you got.

      I ave a great boss now, and he asked me if I like getting awards? I said "Only if you or your bosses actual put value on them"

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    7. Re:What about non-gamers? by mwvdlee · · Score: 1

      I ave a great boss now, and he asked me if I like getting awards? I said "Only if you or your bosses actual put value on them"

      At which point you swallowed your last grain of selfrespect and drooled it out onto the boss' shoes you were licking?

      --
      Slashdot social media options: AIM, ICQ, Yahoo, Jabber and Mobile Text. Why no MySpace?
  5. Ever more short-termism by solarissmoke · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "Accelerated feedback cycles, short-term but achievable goals, compelling narrative."

    So basically they're predicting that organizations will become even more focused on the short-term and immediate gain, and even step away from reality in order to make it more exciting. Because that's not what got us into this financial mess in the first place.

    1. Re:Ever more short-termism by azalin · · Score: 2

      This "this quarter" mentality needs to stop as soon as possible and has to be replaced by a more long term oriented approach. Paying management according to performance is not a bad idea per se, but this short term goals bullshit has cost a lot of companies dearly.

    2. Re:Ever more short-termism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, because software projects that take 5 years till the first delivery is what everybody needs more of (except Blizzard games).

    3. Re:Ever more short-termism by geekoid · · Score: 1

      Just because most people here are clueless about business:

      "short-term but achievable goals, "
      Are steps in a bigger long term plan.

      Like when you sit down to do your annual planning. You want to accomplish X in 12 months. You set many small achievable goals the get you to X.

      If you aren't doing annual planning, You should try it for 5 years. You would be surprised how it will turn your life around.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
  6. Not a motivator by Meneth · · Score: 1

    I think it's not a motivator by itself. It's a tool that helps you keep track of your achievements. It's useful for those that are already motivated to do well.

    1. Re:Not a motivator by mwvdlee · · Score: 1

      Somebody who needs badges to keep track of his own achievements probably likely won't have any achievements to keep track of.

      --
      Slashdot social media options: AIM, ICQ, Yahoo, Jabber and Mobile Text. Why no MySpace?
  7. if ( Question in Title ) Answer = no; by VortexCortex · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Nope. Not a good motivator. More precisely it's a motivator for the wrong type of behaviour. Once you "gamify" a system, you've just added one more layer of indirection, and several orders of magnitude more ways to game the system.

    Perfection in game design is not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to cheat.

  8. Works once by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Then when there's no real reward .....

  9. Already widely used in the workplace... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    I do believe the rewards are called "money".

    1. Re:Already widely used in the workplace... by Chrisq · · Score: 1

      I do believe the rewards are called "money".

      That was last year. This year the management will have read the report and know that you will be better motivated with a gold star.

    2. Re:Already widely used in the workplace... by Mikkeles · · Score: 1

      Well, two 1 oz gold stars a week would be nicely motivating.

      --
      Great minds think alike; fools seldom differ.
    3. Re:Already widely used in the workplace... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The problem is money is paid in secret, either by cheque or into a bank account. If they brought your bonus out in cash and handed it to you at your desk it might have the same effect as gold stars. It might also shame some of the higher ups when their salary is brought in using wheelbarrows by employees whose take home pay comes in baggies.

  10. Achievements by Noread · · Score: 1

    Just throw in some achievements while you're at it and you can really get the competition going.

  11. Bonus days off works better... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Especially if they cannot call you while off.

  12. Flair by jimshatt · · Score: 3, Funny

    The nazi's used to hand out stars to the jews, just for being so awesome!

    1. Re:Flair by jimshatt · · Score: 2

      Flamebait? Really? It was a joke, come on! It even had an Office Space reference. I guess not a joke to everyone's taste, but certainly not meant as flamebait. Oh well..

    2. Re:Flair by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And look how that turned out for the "winners." Oh wait! They benefited at the expense of their neighbours whom paid with their lives and ever since they are a "protected group." Let's act as adults in the workplace and stop remaking the high school experience.

    3. Re:Flair by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sounds like this badge system was invented for guys like you. "Oh no I got a -1, boo hoo, i must moan about it for i am losing teh game". Everyone else will just click down if they're interested in the discussion, regardless of moderation. That's how it works in unmoderated forums, after all.

  13. Mastery is more important by Lord_of_the_nerf · · Score: 3, Informative

    Microrewards a great, but they only do part of the job. Engagement also relies on the feeling that your skills are improving (mastery). Autonomy and purpose are also fairly important.

    I've worked in a number of workforces that use gamification techniques. Typically it's adopted brute force (leaderboards, backed by monetary incentives) that convince you to work against others. They basically turn a group of people who should be working together into fifteen year olds playing co-op Modern Warfare 3 - smack talk included.

    This isn't to say they're bad, just typically poorly adopted.

    1. Re:Mastery is more important by fuzzlost · · Score: 1

      There's definitely a way to do it "right," but I'm not sure the same system would work at every company (even companies in the same business). If you have a really cohesive team, then you may be able to pit them against each other and will result in friendly competition. But if your team isn't so cohesive, you may end up promoting a lot of backstabbing, sabotage, and resentful emotions.

    2. Re:Mastery is more important by Faerunner · · Score: 1

      The problem with feeling like your skills are improving is that at many job levels there's only so much you can improve before you're doing the best you can do with the resources and options presented, and then they should be giving you more responsibilities and challenges so you can keep growing and learning. Instead, after the initial learning curve most people plateau and eventually get bored. Ultimately it comes down to the fact that management won't promote someone just because they've mastered their current responsibilities and are showing signs of wanting more (even if that promotion would improve morale and productivity), and all the "gamifying" in the world won't make up for that lack of mobility.

      Gamifying the system doesn't work if your players never get to level up!

  14. the only way... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...that's gonna work is if I can get a level up to throw lightning bolts at people.

  15. Hell yeah! by karolgajewski · · Score: 4, Funny

    As a bureaucrat in a dead-end job, I can say "Hell yeah!"

    There's nothing I look forward to more than a little gold star that I can put on my cubicle to rub in the face of Jenkins because I submitted more dreary TPS reports than anyone else in our unit.

    --
    - .k. -
  16. Not gamification.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    A gold star sticker isn't gamification. Giving me experience that I can use to level up and get perks (say the ability to use "skip this question" on a test for the price of having to look up the answer after) or virtual currency that I can redeem for prizes, that is gamification. A gold star sticker is what everyone has done forever .

  17. Gamification? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Please use real words in the title or at least put made up ones in quotes. . .

    1. Re:Gamification? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or you do a single Google for it.

      Gamification

      Your auto-correct isn't a standard. Languages are defined by use.

  18. Best Motivator by rikkards · · Score: 2

    Money
    Otherwise why are we truly there?

    1. Re:Best Motivator by Simon+Brooke · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Money
      Otherwise why are we truly there?

      Was discussing this with my boss yesterday. we agreed that money was very effective for motivating salesmen, very poor for motivating engineers. Good challenges and good toys to play with seem to me the best way to motivate engineers (by which I mean they're the best way to motivate me).

      --
      I'm old enough to remember when discussions on Slashdot were well informed.
    2. Re:Best Motivator by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So he cut your pay and provided more difficult problems!

    3. Re:Best Motivator by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So he cut your pay and provided more difficult problems!

      Yep. More difficuly problem: you know that thing I asked you to do over the next 6 months? Have it done by Thursday instead.

    4. Re:Best Motivator by war4peace · · Score: 2

      Money
      Otherwise why are we truly there?

      Good challenges and good toys to play with seem to me the best way to motivate engineers (by which I mean they're the best way to motivate me).

      ...If you already have the money, or enough to live comfortably.
      I personally hate those fucking badges. Just got two of them this quarter (they were handed less than a week ago) so the rage is still fresh. One was a team-based award (some project I was part of) and the other was a recognition award (some people considered me being awesome and shit).
      Strings attached: no cash reward. No cash reward, these "database entries" are worthless to me. Those "badges" mean "We, the Company, think you are worthy, but not worthy enough to throw some money your way". You can commend everyone for free. That doesn't mean shit. if you're underpaid but surrounded by beautiful toys, it's not gonna work. It's my current situation; if I need this IT component or that monitor or whatever, I can go ahead and get it and if there's a business justification, the company will approve and pay for it. But when I see there's budget for fancy mobile devices and expensive monthly subscriptions, but no budget for salary adjustments (nota bene: NOT raises, just adjustments to inflation), that makes me pretty mad and demotivates me.

      And then badges come, and I'm supposed to be happy about them? Piss off.

      --
      ...gis sdrawkcab (usually not responding to ACs; don't bother posting as AC)
    5. Re:Best Motivator by ThreeKelvin · · Score: 1

      Well, sort of, yes.

      When I get paid enough to cover my needs I don't really care about money. If I had to choose between two jobs: one with huge pay and dreary work, and another with adequete pay and interesting work, I'd go for the second job.

    6. Re:Best Motivator by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      I basically did that to myself. Went away from a CISO position to pursue something more "adventurous" and closer to reality. It's more rewarding. Certainly not monetary, but I actually get to deal with technology instead of managers, I get to make minute decisions that influence my company now instead of strategic decisions that may or may not have some kind of effect half a year into the future and most of all, I can come in t-shirt and jeans. :)

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    7. Re:Best Motivator by delinear · · Score: 1

      A handful of people would actually choose to be at work if they never had to be, therefore to me the answer to how to motivate is to either give people the opportunity to not be at work (flexi-time works great if people have to do killer overtime but they know they get friday off, or as someone else suggested, earn X reward badges, get a day off, etc) or to make being at work more fun (free drinks/snacks, a break out area with some comfy seats and a few games, all incredibly cheap stuff that makes people feel less trapped at work - again if you want to tie it into a reward system let people earn more breakout time).

    8. Re:Best Motivator by VendettaMF · · Score: 1

      Seconding the motion.
      If I'm good enough to draw special note, then I'm damn well worth an actual award of value, not some freaking 2-cent "Badge".

      --
      kartune85 : Incapable of reason, observation or learning. A kind of dim, drab, flightless parrot.
    9. Re:Best Motivator by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I took a class at my last job which talked about leading technical professionals specifically. The discussion, and I must say it resonated with me quite strongly, was that engineers, beyond some base pay, are not really motivated by money. The three factors that were identified as most motivating were 1) challenging, interesting problems 2) autonomy in problem solving 3) having a boss who is felt by the employee to be technically adept. That said, the content of the course was ignored by the company at every level. I was in a phenomenal work rut, being micromanaged into oblivion, working for the dumbest man I have ever known. The course truly helped me coalesce and define my dissatisfaction, and no, I don't work there anymore.

      (AC because I can't remember my UN or PW)

    10. Re:Best Motivator by DigiTechGuy · · Score: 1

      Agreed. Rich people well into six figures wasnt toys instead of tools to do their job, and they want them for free despite the fact that they cna easily afford their own personal toys without struggling financially. Then the rest of us get shafted with at best, a raise to cover the official rate of inflation, which is a far cry from the real rate of inflation (look at what things cost vs a year or two ago!), or more typically a much smaller raise if any... On top of already being below median wage for a particular job. The icing on the cake is the six figure people get bonuses in the tens of thousands of dollars for shafting all the rest of us on raises/cost of living adjustments. At the bare minimum,simply doing an adequate job (not a spectacular job) a 3%-4% raisae is in order. Those who do very well or go above and beyond should get significantly greater than that, to get above the real inflation rate. Anything less is an annual pay cut. That stuff infuriates me and is a great demotivator.

    11. Re:Best Motivator by war4peace · · Score: 1

      I'll add to my previous statement...
      Getting an one-off "freebie" achievement is fine. I mean, yeah, you get recognition but nothing else, it's all cool, happens. maybe the department has no budget, maybe your achievement is not really worth some financial incentive. I can live with that. But when you get not one, not two, but five, ten such "badges" over time, the whole thing starts to suffer from the diminishing returns syndrome. The more you get, the less valuable they seem, and while the first one definitely has some WOW! factor attached, the next one is "cool", the one after it is "meh" and subsequent "badges" throw your mood on the other side of the fence.
      You start loathing them. The employer basically says "here's another candy wrap for you, look, it's shiny, but no candy in it". So where's the fucking candy? Give it to me or fuck off.
      But wait, it gets worse. In some companies (no specific names presented for personal reasons) the badge system got corrupted. How, you ask? Well, here's the thing: management starts to actively lobby so that each employee ultimately gets a badge, regardless whether they deserve it or not. How that works: say you're in a team of ten people, and 3-4 of them are mediocre at best. it happens. Some people are brighter, some not so much. Some people work more, some people slack more. Some people get stuff done, some others are paper pushers or e-mail relays, it's what they do all day long. It's cool, I have no quarrels with that, to each his own. But then shit hits the fan, because you submit a recognition proposal for someone who deserves it fully and your manager (or his manager) rejects the proposal because that guy already has past badges. "Not nice for one guy to grab all badges", they said. So they propose someone who has no badges, although that guy has done nothing to deserve it. That guy pushed e-mails around and added no values in meetings; all he does, all day long, is get raw data from an environment and pass it, unmodified, to business analysts. It's a shit activity, true, but he's basically a "human patch", doing what a machine should do. And eventually that dude gets a "recognition badge" for "hard work" and "excellence" and all that corporate bullshit wording that I loathe. In the end, he gets the same "badge" that you got, and you worked your ass off whereas he pushed e-mails around once a day. This further dwarfs the badge value and importance. Even worse, it makes you feel ashamed of it, because it must mean the achievement requirements are so low, everyone would get one eventually.
      Suddenly, the badge is something you no longer want.

      It's why I stopped recommending people for those achievements, removed all achievements which were displayed on my employee webpage and generally consider such a system insulting. As someone above said, I'm not a fucking child anymore. I have a family to feed and bills to pay, and badges don't get any of that accomplished. I can't go to the doctor with my sick child and tell him "look, dude, I can't pay for these medical services, but I'll give you a few of my badges". Doesn't work that way, sorry.

      Gamification is theoretically good. If applied properly, it adds value to the company, I strongly believe it does. Sadly, management doesn't understand how it should work and they just mess it up really bad, with negative results. My manager was very surprised by my lack of reaction when he joyfully brought me the "news". I explained to him how I felt and why and he was even more surprised. OK, there are some cultural differences (he's from US, I'm from Romania) but nevertheless the reasons are the same, wherever you are from. Give the employees the candy together with the candy wrapper, and by candy I don't necessarily mean money. Give them a gadget, give them some promotional items, such as T-shirts, jackets, field trips, team buildings, vouchers, NCAs, anything really. But give them something other than just an e-mail and maybe a piece of paper with colored text on it.

      --
      ...gis sdrawkcab (usually not responding to ACs; don't bother posting as AC)
    12. Re:Best Motivator by geekoid · · Score: 1

      Shit, I got adequate pay and dreary work.

      In truth, the most interesting projects have always paid the most.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
  19. What Is Being Measured? by Iskender · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Apart from it being a shame system there are also other problems.

    This is a form of measurement system, and sociological studies have shown that those are growing increasingly common in schools. The problems is the same as with most such systems: the thing being measured isn't necessarily anywhere close to what is thought.

    In the case of a list of who completed things first, the probability is high that it measures who took the most shortcuts and did the least amount of work possible relative to their own capabilities.

    Instead of focusing on measurement and rivalry studies have shown that focusing on equality and everyone in class doing a good job lifts the entire group. I do not know if this carries over to work environments, but I'm sceptical about using rivalry when there could be co-operation instead.

    (Further reading: sociologists who have written about the culture of measurement in schools include David Hargreaves and Risto Rinne.)

    1. Re:What Is Being Measured? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      With respect to programming, Tom DeMarco has written at some length about the hazards of software metrics, eg. in "Controlling Software Projects". Whatever it is you measure, you'll get more of it -- but that won't necessarily be the same thing as the sublime Quality you were hoping for.

      If you "gamify" (ugly word) a system, it will be gamed.

    2. Re:What Is Being Measured? by azalin · · Score: 4, Interesting

      It probably boils down to this: Are you sure by introducing rewards for certain things, you are really encouraging the kind of behavior you want for your team and company?
      This is a already a serious problem with sales based bonuses. Measuring performance is difficult if you want to do it right.

    3. Re:What Is Being Measured? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Metric dysfunction -- see http://testingeducation.org/a/scmmd.pdf
      as well as many others

    4. Re:What Is Being Measured? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is like capitalism vs socialism. And we know now what works and what doesn't.

    5. Re:What Is Being Measured? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      My company does an above an beyond your job type of award. I won one and now I'm demotivated from ever earning another because it sets expectations stupidly high from the run of the mill workers. Ever since I won it people seem to expect that I will have a solution immediately and anything less than that isn't "acceptable for a winner".

    6. Re:What Is Being Measured? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Instead of focusing on measurement and rivalry studies have shown that focusing on equality and everyone in class doing a good job lifts the entire group. I do not know if this carries over to work environments, but I'm sceptical about using rivalry when there could be co-operation instead.

      Please provide some references. I have doubts about "focusing on equality"; all that does is give the lazy a free pass.

    7. Re:What Is Being Measured? by biodata · · Score: 2

      I agree. We are pretty much sure that communism is the economic powerhouse these days where things get built and economic growth happens.

      --
      Korma: Good
    8. Re:What Is Being Measured? by Chrisq · · Score: 1

      Instead of focusing on measurement and rivalry studies have shown that focusing on equality and everyone in class doing a good job lifts the entire group. I do not know if this carries over to work environments, but I'm sceptical about using rivalry when there could be co-operation instead.

      Please provide some references. I have doubts about "focusing on equality"; all that does is give the lazy a free pass.

      I am sure you are right if it is the sole motivator, but if there are other motivators for the class/team to do well then it may help reaching the optimum performance rather than letting a few "star players" do everything.

    9. Re:What Is Being Measured? by gomoX · · Score: 3, Interesting

      The trick is in closing the feedback loop. Not all projects are software projects, where quality is highly subjective and unmeasurable. At InvGate we introduced earlier this year a set of tools to bring gamification to the helpdesk.

      If your system can measure the actual quality of the work (which is possible in IT/customer support environments by gathering feedback from requesters) then you can actually have an incentive system that works.

      Bad system:
      * 10 points for solving a ticket
      * 1 point por replying to a ticket
      * 4 points for chipping into another tech's tickets (allegedly to help out)
      * -20 points for reopened ticket
      * -100 points for SLA missed

      If you ever worked in this type of environment, you can already see the incentives pushing for quick, bad replies to customers in your tickets and everyone else's, and new requests filed instead of reopening old ones.

      But what about this?

      * 1 point for solving a ticket
      * 15, 10, 0, -10, -20 points for 5, 4, 3, 2 and 1-star customer ratings on those tickets
      * -100 points for SLA missed
      * 200 points bonus for doing 10 5-star tickets in a row
      * 1000 points bonus for doing those 10 5-star tickets in a row in less than one hour

      It even starts to become fun! And if you plug gamification throughout the whole system, even this (taken from a "Knowledge Week" quest that lasted through a specific week in an InvGate Service Desk instance):
      * 10 points for creating a Knowledge Base article
      * 15, 10, 0, -10, -20 points for 5, 4, 3, 2 and 1-star customer ratings on those articles
      * 20 points for having the article you created used by other techs to solve a ticket
      * 50 points for having the article you created used by customers to figure out the ticket themselves

      There other significant side effects to a gamification setup in this situation:

      * You get a performance metric in the amount of points an agent gathered during a period of X
      * Non-geek helpdesk or customer support admins can tune incentives themselves (an earlier approach with a "black box" combined metric resulted in questions about how it's calculated, and why it's doing things that you don't expect)
      * Unlike the case mentioned above, gamification-based metrics are transparent. Everyone can understand what's going on with a score counter that pops up when you perform actions.
      * It even has a "ka-ching" sound effect when you get points!

      --
      My english is sow-sow. Sowhat?
    10. Re:What Is Being Measured? by Opportunist · · Score: 3, Insightful

      "Well, if you want me to solve your ticket NOW, maybe you should hand me a 5-star rating BEFORE I start on it..."

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    11. Re:What Is Being Measured? by Chaos+Incarnate · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I don't think the customer ratings make a useful metric. A customer who receives a response they didn't like ("I'm sorry, but it's not our corporate policy to remove the Internet filter and let you browse porn at work") is liable to give it a poor rating regardless of how well the service rep handled the case.

      --
      Benford's Corollary to Clarke's Law: "Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced."
    12. Re:What Is Being Measured? by tbannist · · Score: 2

      That's pretty much it. According to Daniel H. Pink, (author of Drive) these types of systems can actually make work less fulfilling in the long run and can actually interfere with the proper performance of any job involving thought. They're pretty good at motivating repetitious tasks (like factory work), however, for work that involves creativity, the rewards can actually reduce quality and productivity by focus the employees on earning the points instead of doing the work. The book mostly deals with monetary rewards, but I think a known point system is fairly similar to monetary awards. Although, I suppose the points might be less desirable and thus burn out the employees a little slower than the cash rewards do.

      --
      Fanatically anti-fanatical
    13. Re:What Is Being Measured? by L4t3r4lu5 · · Score: 1

      Are your support folk allowed to answer queries, or do they read from a script? Reading from a script gets you 1 star and a swift loss of the support contract.

      Nice plug for your company, by the way.

      --
      Finally had enough. Come see us over at https://soylentnews.org/
    14. Re:What Is Being Measured? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      All points based systems can be gamed, no matter how well you think you've covered the bases. In the first case, well a couple of things, if your product is low value enough what's to stop an employees having his friends create a bunch of dummy accounts, buy a few bucks worth of product every month and boost his score that way. Alternatively you're likely to see alot of buck passing and bad feeling amongst employees (best way to prevent a disgruntled customer giving you a bad score? Sell out one of your colleagues). In the second instance, what's to stop article spamming, one guy sees a fantastic article, rips it off, adds some arbitrary bit of new information and he's now earning points off someone else's hard work (and of course you could have a system where employees vote on whether an article is a dupe, but then there will be ways to game that, getting genuine new articles removed, or buying favours with beer tokens).

      Ultimately all of these systems are meant to be a crutch to deal with poor management. A good manager doesn't need badges and points to motivate a team or to spot the people who are genuinely struggling versus those who are taking advantage. Instead of developing schemes that allow for bad managers to stay in their roles by putting all the emphasis onto the employees, isn't it time we had a focus on good management and cutting out the dead wood? If management's job is basically sticking a star on the employees wall every X number of points, they can effectively already be replaced by a small shell script.

    15. Re:What Is Being Measured? by delinear · · Score: 1

      Indeed, meanwhile most capitalist economies are in the toilet at the moment because there was too much emphasis on freedom and removing the restrictions that kept the predatory excesses of big business in check.

    16. Re:What Is Being Measured? by PopeRatzo · · Score: 2

      1000 points bonus for doing those 10 5-star tickets in a row in less than one hour

      Oh God please no.

      Your people are already in too much of a hurry. Motivate for quality, motivate for level of difficulty, hell, you can motivate for cheeriness and cleanliness (if these are programmers, that last is key).

      But for chrissake, everybody is plenty productive enough. Productivity is through the roof. People are producing themselves to heart attacks and strokes and cancer for a miserable gold star.

      You want to motivate? TREAT THEM LIKE HUMAN BEINGS AND PAY THEM A DECENT WAGE. The only thing today's middle management knows how to motivate is their bosses to wanting to have their asses kissed more deeply and with more tongue and their workers to wanting to slit their throats.

      Gamification, my black ass.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    17. Re:What Is Being Measured? by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      That doesn't sound like a customer, that sounds like a colleague. People ringing a help desk from inside a company are not customers. Customers are people who pay and can choose who to buy from. A customers opinion should be very important. A colleague, less so, as it's the company that's paying not the colleague.

      A customer should have that porn block removed if he asks. A colleague, probably not.

    18. Re:What Is Being Measured? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nice, but unless you can redeem real money for the points, who gives a fuck.

    19. Re:What Is Being Measured? by BasilBrush · · Score: 2

      You're right. Demand for a product or service is out of the workers hands - it comes from decisions of management and salesmen and the economy etc. So increasing productivity actually means reducing the number of people or reducing the money they are paid. It's not something to be welcomed by workers.

      However, gamification is far more than just increasing productivity. A good game is a process of constant learning and increasing skills, whilst having fun doing it. That is also a recipe for job satisfaction. So don't dismiss gamification, done right it could be a very good thing.

    20. Re:What Is Being Measured? by BasilBrush · · Score: 2

      It can also be a disincentive. I worked at a software company where pride in the product, a meritocracy in seniority and pay levels, and many social events encouraging bonding were all highly successful motivators. Morale was high.

      Then a new manager was hired for our department, and he decided getting everyone in a stand up meeting once a month and giving a few individuals a cash bonus or movie tickets would be a good motivator. Actually the people selected just felt patronised and embarrassed. And those that didn't get them just felt left out. Morale nosedived.

    21. Re:What Is Being Measured? by gomoX · · Score: 0

      I get you mean it as a joke, but this is not possible, any decent system only allows feedback after the issue is closed.

      --
      My english is sow-sow. Sowhat?
    22. Re:What Is Being Measured? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      This all reminds me of the tale I once heard of a Soviet-era nail factory.

      The Workers had a quota of nails they had to fill, the output was some certain mass of nails, and once they filled that, they could pretty much take the rest of the month off. So, the manager being a clever sort, set his workers on the task of producing lots and lots of railroad spikes. Within a week they produced the quota, took the month off, and the manager was awarded the Medal of Lenin for filling his quota. The politburo, realizing what had happened, changed his quota for the next week. No longer was the gross indicator mass of nails produced, but rather the number of nails produced. The manager, still being the clever sort, switched the factory to producing thumb tacks... again, within a week, the factory had filled its quota, the workers got to go home, and the manager was awarded the Medal of Lenin.

      The moral of the story, of course, being that you want to make sure what you're asking for and what you're motivating for, is actually what you want.

    23. Re:What Is Being Measured? by gomoX · · Score: 1

      Customer satisfaction is *the* metric for a customer support service. Even for "internal customers" (people inside your company) it's a big deal. You won't get fired for a bad rating, and if the customer is an asshole this can be traced back and reviewed by a coordinator/supervisor by tracking where your points came from (there is a history log of everything).

      It sounds like you are coming from a "tech vs. the rest" type of experience. In most non technology companies, tech is service for the rest, so a change of mindset is in order.

      In the end, it's about people. Tools are just supposed to get all non-people problems out of your way (such as communication, tracking, measurement, etc).

      --
      My english is sow-sow. Sowhat?
    24. Re:What Is Being Measured? by thesandtiger · · Score: 4, Interesting

      That is absolutely a problem. Or what about the very charismatic and friendly person that the customers absolutely love, but who is completely incompetent? They may be great at getting customers to like them but absolutely horrible at actually helping customers with their real problems.

      I use Sprint for my cell service, and literally every time I speak to anyone with that company they let me know I'll be getting a customer service survey in a day or two and that they want me to give them the best scores. They specifically ask, "Will you do that for me?" because that kind of "pressure" will often work, and customers will feel like liars if they say yes then don't.

      I have told the people asking me that kind of question that despite their performance being excellent, I will simply refuse to take the survey because that kind of "pressure" will wind up skewing the results and lead to real problems being hidden. I've told managers at stores the same thing, and did my little stick-it-to-the-man thing by emailing the Sprint CEO directly (since he has an allegedly public email address that he claims to read). It's a shame, actually, because by and large my interactions with their customer service have been really great, but there's no way for them to distinguish between someone who actually performs well and someone who guilts customers into saying they did.

      The only metrics that are useful are ones where social engineering, sandbagging, and other kinds of artificial manipulation are removed from the equation. Unfortunately, for pretty much any job these days, those kinds of foolproof metrics are completely worthless since they don't measure anything worthwhile.

      One way I've seen the problem addressed is a zero tolerance policy. A friend of mine works in the customer service group for a largish firm and they have stated that they will terminate, immediately, any employee found to be requesting good ratings or even mentioning that there will be a customer evaluation contact. Evaluations are handled by an entirely separate group so there isn't an opportunity for friends to fudge the numbers for other people, etc.

      But even so, performance metrics are REALLY hard to create - much better to have managers who are actually good managers and good at evaluating performance than to have arbitrary systems.

      --
      Since I can't tell them apart, I treat all ACs as the same person.
    25. Re:What Is Being Measured? by gomoX · · Score: 1

      We don't sell support services, we build a helpdesk product that companies buy and use to provide support services. We also use our own support tool to support our customers, obviously.

      I don't mind a plug if it's pertinent and relevant. The fact is I probably have spent more time thinking about gamification than 99% of the people reading this thread, and therefore have some insight to share. I provided a link in case someone needs more information or wants to see the actual implementation :)

      --
      My english is sow-sow. Sowhat?
    26. Re:What Is Being Measured? by gomoX · · Score: 1

      From this point of view, the gamification functionalities are a form of measurement that is good in the ways I described above (easy to understand and tune, transparent, easy to audit). You can then use it to support any type of money compensation scheme you like. In the end it comes down to a management decision, we just build a software product.

      Or you can actually have fun using it. I know we have extra fun with our own support tracker in the office since this was implemented. Continuous integration systems (Hudson/Jenkins) have had this for a while and developers love it. And I don't think anyone ever got a pay discount for breaking a build. Monetary incentives are not the final answer to everything. Alfie Kohn's "Punished by Rewards" has some interesting points on the subject.

      --
      My english is sow-sow. Sowhat?
    27. Re:What Is Being Measured? by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      However, gamification is far more than just increasing productivity. A good game is a process of constant learning and increasing skills, whilst having fun doing it. That is also a recipe for job satisfaction.

      Sure, you're right. I was reacting in my usual reactionary way to a particular way gamification is used in the workplace.

      I'm all about games. During my life as a teacher, games have been some of the most important tools I had, and at every level including my PhD students.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    28. Re:What Is Being Measured? by gomoX · · Score: 1

      My people are in a hurry? How would you possibly know that?

      Gamification is a tool, like salary, bonuses, good chairs, free meals, hammers and screwdrivers. You can use them for whatever they want. I know the "combo" quests are amusing and give out nice bragging rights with the other guys in our company. Customers are liking it as well. If you come from a "fail the quest and be fired" attitude then obviously it turns into a mindless drone thing, but that is not gamification's fault, it's the managers'.

      --
      My english is sow-sow. Sowhat?
    29. Re:What Is Being Measured? by rwv · · Score: 1

      incentives pushing for quick, bad replies to customers in your tickets and everyone else's

      With either set of "points", the game becomes identifying and solving the "easy" problems. To an extent the smarter, more experienced people will be better at this because to them, more of the tickets are problems they've seen before. But this doesn't change the fact that employees have a disincentive to working the "harder" problems (unless the tickets are assigned randomly and people don't get to choose which tickets they work).

    30. Re:What Is Being Measured? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That is of course the problem with these types of things. You invariably get more of whatever you incentivize, it just might not be what you think it is. In many career fields objective assessments are difficult. Let's take something like a lawyer. Would you want a lawyer that was measured purely on number of cases completed per week, number of briefings filed, pages of briefings, or even win/loss percentage? Measuring any one of those would undoubtedly have negative results. The lawyer could file reams of crappy paperwork, take easy short win clients, etc. to boost his numbers. The easiest way to measure performance is an assessment by another knowledgeable lawyer (the boss/senior partner). Unfortunately, the farther up in management you get, the more detached you become and expect anything the business does can be quantified and measured.

    31. Re:What Is Being Measured? by nitehawk214 · · Score: 1

      Customer satisfaction is *the* metric for a customer support service. Even for "internal customers" (people inside your company) it's a big deal. You won't get fired for a bad rating, and if the customer is an asshole this can be traced back and reviewed by a coordinator/supervisor by tracking where your points came from (there is a history log of everything).

      It sounds like you are coming from a "tech vs. the rest" type of experience. In most non technology companies, tech is service for the rest, so a change of mindset is in order.

      In the end, it's about people. Tools are just supposed to get all non-people problems out of your way (such as communication, tracking, measurement, etc).

      And there are customers that are dicks. So do you just fire people assigned to your dick customers, since it must be the employee's fault they are getting low ratings?

      How about lets have the managers rate the employees by reviewing their work and interaction with the customers... you know do their jobs. Instead it is easier to say "oh sorry, you didn't get enough gold stars, we have to let you go, its not my fault."

      Also, the problem with the gaming system you have is similar to most MMO type games. Any technique that gives you the most reward for the least effort is going to be exploited. This gets it "nerfed" as they say. So you get into a culture that anything that is really effective in earning points gets reduced. (or the opposite, points are continually increased for anything that needs to be focused on more, causing a "points inflation")

      --
      I'm a good cook. I'm a fantastic eater. - Steven Brust
    32. Re:What Is Being Measured? by SilentStaid · · Score: 1

      I wish I could mod you past 5. I want you to know that based on your post I'm actually going to do a trial run next month with our desk.

      Kudos.

    33. Re:What Is Being Measured? by gutnor · · Score: 1

      You assume that the client of customer service will not rate the user based on the resolution he received : ask for a refund and the agent cannot give it - 1 star. Already in lot of customer services deps dealing with the general public, agents learn to recognize the stinkers: the one you cannot do anything about but will still be blamed by the client. In those places, the system you propose would be anything but fun.

      I guess there is nothing that works in every situation. The most fun metric to measure IMHO is the one you change them from time to time. Keeping the same one for too long is either boring or encourage cheaters.

    34. Re:What Is Being Measured? by gomoX · · Score: 1

      Not really. Management needs measuring and gamification is a great form of it, with other good side-effects. It can be done poorly, like any incentive system, but I think there is real value in the toolset.

      Unlike an Internet forum, you can easily fix some issues with real life discipline. If a tech is unethically gambling the system you can address him directly. It's real life fraud, not comment spam.

      --
      My english is sow-sow. Sowhat?
    35. Re:What Is Being Measured? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's not really any better if you have to say "no, I can't lift the government mandated blocking on the pirate bay", to a paying customer.

      There are a lot of things that customer service people can't do that customers might want them to.

    36. Re:What Is Being Measured? by gomoX · · Score: 1

      This is a good point. We have ideas in the pipeline for this issue as well. They either involve some sort of bounty-based scheme (where managers can set up bounties for specific tasks - usually the hard ones) or reasessing the point value of actions based on the "tough nut to crack" factor (time since inception of the issue times priority, or something along those lines).

      All in all, the important part is that gamification is a quantum leap in the tools you have available for metering and tracking work (compared to, say, hours spent on X). There is still lots to be discovered and built in this direction, and we are trying to figure it out.

      --
      My english is sow-sow. Sowhat?
    37. Re:What Is Being Measured? by gomoX · · Score: 1

      I should get myself a badge for that :)

      If you call do ask for Gonzalo so I can give you a slashdotter-friendly demo myself.

      --
      My english is sow-sow. Sowhat?
    38. Re:What Is Being Measured? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If your system can measure the actual quality of the work (which is possible in IT/customer support environments by gathering feedback from requesters) then you can actually have an incentive system that works.

      Except .... requester feedback is subjective. Back when I was doing helpdesk, I would get dozens of tickets on the order of "my computer is slow." My response would be "well, you have thirty Outlook messages open, twelve Internet Explorer windows - half with multiple tabs - and you're streaming a radio station while keeping a window open on YouTube." I submit to you that the actual quality of the work on this ticket cannot be measured via "feedback from requesters."

      And don't get me started on "well, who's letting them watch YouTube at work." That's policy, I don't get to decide that.

    39. Re:What Is Being Measured? by gomoX · · Score: 1

      This is a real problem, which is why there is great emphasis on being able to change point schemes and quest definitions to keep it current and as moving a target as feasible.

      Games pull it off all the time though, and helpdesk managers typically have an extra ace up their sleeve in that they are the supporter's bosses. So many of the problems that exist for MMO don't exist when you lose the 1st "M" (the one that stands for Massive). Typically a help desk staff is not as big, and therefore much more manageable in a face-to-face way to correct issues.

      --
      My english is sow-sow. Sowhat?
    40. Re:What Is Being Measured? by nitehawk214 · · Score: 2

      While everyone does the survey thing now, and I agree that they are of little value; I don't recall ever having a rep try to suggest I give them a good score. In fact that would be one way to guarantee I give them a low score and a comment of "cares more about getting a good score on the survey than providing good customer service."

      Normally it is "Would you like to take a survey?", or "If you take this survey you will be entered to win $something." I normally tell the rep up front if I liked their service anyhow.

      My favorite survey was for a bank location that I only did banking over the phone at. I wasn't able to answer many of the questions as they were mostly about the physical location. I was happy with the one person I talked to on the phone with, though. The surveyor and I had a good laugh when I suggested that I was only a few blocks away and could walk in there and let him know.

      --
      I'm a good cook. I'm a fantastic eater. - Steven Brust
    41. Re:What Is Being Measured? by gomoX · · Score: 0

      I agree with pretty much everything.

      Our gamification system's implementation doesn't pretend it can replace a manager. It is precisely about giving managers the tools to measure things they way they want or feel is good and place incentives where they should be.

      I only disagree with your last statement. Good managers don't replace performance metrics. Good managers know how to create them, measure them, and then understand them for what they are (not less, not more). I regularly have people telling me they want to be able to "pause" an SLA because an issue will take longer than expected, for example.

      --
      My english is sow-sow. Sowhat?
    42. Re:What Is Being Measured? by gomoX · · Score: 1

      Subjectivity is no problem. A gamification-based metric is only good as a relative metric. If you have a tech in the same position you have dealing with the same types of requests, neither of you should get an unfair score because of this type of issue. You can't expect to have an "anyone below 200 points/day gets fired" scheme, you have to understand metrics for what they are.

      The interesting thing is you can then look at requests that cause trouble and see statistical information about them. If hundreds of people are complaining about this, you can actually do something about it.

      --
      My english is sow-sow. Sowhat?
    43. Re:What Is Being Measured? by olau · · Score: 2

      I don't think Opportunist meant it as a joke. I think it was meant as a critique. And I don't think you fully understood it. Although I do think it's applaudable you're trying to measure how happy the customers are.

    44. Re:What Is Being Measured? by gomoX · · Score: 1

      I guess there is nothing that works in every situation. The most fun metric to measure IMHO is the one you change them from time to time. Keeping the same one for too long is either boring or encourage cheaters.

      That's exactly the point. Our product allows managers to change point assignments to tune their gamification system, and define quests that they think are important for their business. In the end, it's about giving help desk managers the ability to create a metering/incentive system that maps well to their needs.

      --
      My english is sow-sow. Sowhat?
    45. Re:What Is Being Measured? by CubicleZombie · · Score: 1

      When I worked helpdesk, the metric was call length. Workers figured out that if a call went too long, just hang up on the next call immediately. Or the next two calls if it was way too long. I used to watch people do this: Ring. Click. Ring. Click. Ring. "Hello..."

      Ever wonder why you can sit on hold for 20 minutes and then have your call dropped? That's why.

      I refused to do this and was rewarded by having my headset taken away and getting my lunch break at the end of my shift.

      --
      :wq
    46. Re:What Is Being Measured? by gomoX · · Score: 1

      Sorry to hear you had such a lousy manager :(

      --
      My english is sow-sow. Sowhat?
    47. Re:What Is Being Measured? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wake me up when Fortune500 CEOs take 400 banana points instead of 100000 RSUs or just plain money.

    48. Re:What Is Being Measured? by fuzzlost · · Score: 1

      A company I worked for had a really simple system to prevent that sort of abuse. Basically, when you really rocked out a project, you got a nail (as in, a straight piece of steel used to hold things together). The developers at the company took a lot of pride in collecting those nails. One guy made a little wooden knickknack and nailed them into it when he got one.

      The nails had no intrinsic value, but because everyone at the company praised people when they received one, they became a mark of pride. Managers gave them out fairly infrequently and with totally subjective reasoning, but something about the attitude and respect surrounding them pervaded the company.

    49. Re:What Is Being Measured? by Culture20 · · Score: 1

      But PHBs only care about productivity. Morale, skills, etc only matter to them if it increases productivity.

    50. Re:What Is Being Measured? by Chaos+Incarnate · · Score: 1

      It's only a colleague if your company doesn't outsource their IT. ;)

      --
      Benford's Corollary to Clarke's Law: "Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced."
    51. Re:What Is Being Measured? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      However, gamification is far more than just increasing productivity. A good game is a process of constant learning and increasing skills, whilst having fun doing it. That is also a recipe for job satisfaction. So don't dismiss gamification, done right it could be a very good thing.

      I do not go to work to play games or earn rewards. I go to work to deliver a service in exchange for money in my bank account. Go gamify yourself into a kindergarten and then grow up. I work in customer support and management focuses on call length, after-call wrap-time, and a myriad of other useless metrics. The ONLY thing that really matters, in my opinion, is "did the problem get fixed, did the inquiry get answered correctly?" So, if my workplace adopts gamification I will walkout because kindergarten is long in my past.

    52. Re:What Is Being Measured? by DragonWriter · · Score: 1

      The trick is in closing the feedback loop. Not all projects are software projects, where quality is highly subjective and unmeasurable.

      Subjectivity of quality isn't the main problem (and, arguably, isn't the main problem) in the case of software.

      The biggest problems are:
      1. There's a pretty big mass of research showing that systematic reward mechanisms in work are usually demotivating rather than motivating, and a new rash of such studies usually shows up shortly after each new fad using reward mechanisms under a different name (which is what "gamification" is), and
      2. The measures and premises on which gamification in work is based are almost always examples of micro-optimization which assume that processes are perfect and the problems are with individuals. This is an idea that has a natural attraction to the leaders who are responsible for the process, but in reality process is very often the area that actually needs the improvement.

      You want to make things better, you get a process performance metric that measure real value delivered by the process -- and use them with statistical sophistication so you can understandwhether the process is in control or out of control -- and engage the team that is responsible for executing the process in the work of deciding how to improve the process to better deliver on the metric.

    53. Re:What Is Being Measured? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If it comes with a "ka-ching" then I'll make sure my friends are calling in and rating me high, beer for all come the weekend!

    54. Re:What Is Being Measured? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I wouldn't help the jerk customer that always gives a 4-star because "there's always room for improvement."

    55. Re:What Is Being Measured? by gomoX · · Score: 1

      In this situation, gamification as a measuring concept helps you find out which ones are good and which ones aren't. Works for everyone doesn't it? :)

      --
      My english is sow-sow. Sowhat?
    56. Re:What Is Being Measured? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why bother whoring a metric system with a fancy name? Everyone knows the next manager will just scrap all the metrics and instill their own, very different, metrics.

    57. Re:What Is Being Measured? by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      PHBs yes. But very occasionally you get a manager who is not like that, and is genuinely interested in progressing his staff.

    58. Re:What Is Being Measured? by gomoX · · Score: 1

      Comment was meant as a joke. I'm hardly interested in selling anything here, I can get a better SNR pretty much anywhere else for commercial purposes.

      If you have used Stack Overflow (or, you know, Slashdot, who's been using Karma since forever) it's possible you may not have felt the whole thing was a "game". Same thing at work, an off site day is not "pretend you are nice so you get a pay raise" day. It's honestly meant to be fun. In the same way Gamification can be used for good purposes.

      It can definitely be abused, just like any other tool. But if used in a smart manner it can reap great benefits.

      --
      My english is sow-sow. Sowhat?
    59. Re:What Is Being Measured? by gomoX · · Score: 1

      What do you think he meant? It's just not possible to extort customers into giving you a positive review if the system is designed well.

      --
      My english is sow-sow. Sowhat?
    60. Re:What Is Being Measured? by gomoX · · Score: 1

      I'm sorry to hear you don't get anything but money from your job. If you work in a massive call center then it's very likely you are subject to a number of hard metrics that you must keep in mind, making the job very unsatisfying and stressful. Your place of work might not be a good place for implementing this sort of thing.

      The fact that it's not a silver bullet for every situation doesn't negate the value of the tool either. In my other comments I have suggested scenarios where it works well.

      --
      My english is sow-sow. Sowhat?
    61. Re:What Is Being Measured? by gomoX · · Score: 1

      The point is gamification is not a metric system, it's a framework. It allows for non-excessively-technical managers to tune metrics (or scrap them) and incentives while keeping them transparent and understandable.

      --
      My english is sow-sow. Sowhat?
    62. Re:What Is Being Measured? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Disregard the previous post.

  20. Very useful, more so if the rewards are good. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    I even do it when I work for myself. (software, web, tools dev, and now game and engines dev. )

    If I meet certain deadlines within a day, I reward myself with watching or playing something I like, such as a new episode of a TV show I watch, or a game. (30 minutes)
    If I even go above and beyond what I set out for that day, I will reward myself with a 60 minute segment instead of the typical 30. (good for those 1 hour shows, or 30 minute and some gaming, or whatever else.
    If I don't, no playtime for me. Boohoo. But it happens. Sometimes I just need to push through and find that light at the end of the tunnel in the case of something complex where a break would probably ruin my current mindset and I'd have no clue what I was doing.

    It got me more productive in more ways than one, specifically more productive at having fun instead of wasting time sitting around doing nothing.
    My organization is better, which used to be just a huge mess. Both with respect to working as well as play.

    My days follow a pretty strict schedule mostly to fit around health issues. From exercise to work to play to work to relaxation, and possibly some more play and even work. (since it is both a hobby and job to me)
    Works pretty damn well if I do say so myself.
    Stopped me sitting around wasting away like a burst grape.

  21. Looking at the bigger picture by antifoidulus · · Score: 3, Insightful

    This just seems like yet another step towards employers treating their employees like children(that unlike real children they can, and do fire) rather than adults. Monitoring internet, asking for social network passwords, and now this....if they wanted to run a kindergarten, they should have gone into that field.

    1. Re:Looking at the bigger picture by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Mod parent up. +5 Insightful.

    2. Re:Looking at the bigger picture by JazzHarper · · Score: 1

      ...if they wanted to run a kindergarten, they should have gone into that field.

      Case in point: moderation, karma points, meta-moderation, friends, fans, freaks and foes. Gamification of an otherwise dry forum.

    3. Re:Looking at the bigger picture by Bieeanda · · Score: 1

      Nah, this pays far, far better than being a school teacher.

    4. Re:Looking at the bigger picture by TheRaven64 · · Score: 2

      Actually, the Slashdot moderation system is a good counterexample. In the old days, your karma was a score value that was public. People used to brag about how good their karma was and post a lot of karma whoring things to make it bigger. When they made it private and capped, The discussions improved.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    5. Re:Looking at the bigger picture by fuzzlost · · Score: 1

      You know, I'm really not sure why treating the workplace more like a children's school is such a bad thing. Some parts are pretty obvious (I don't want to have to ask my boss if I can be excused to use the washroom), but there are lots of things both workers and employers could do to make work more fun (or, at least, more interesting).

      Obviously the first focus should always be doing your job, but that doesn't need to be the only thing you do. I had an employer that had a "Guess the amount of jelly beans in this jar" contest every week. The winner won the jar. Took 2 minutes to guess, tops. And you know what? I kinda looked forward to going to work on Fridays (Friday!) to see if I'd win. I don't know about you, but that sounds *exactly* like grade school.

    6. Re:Looking at the bigger picture by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      I'm familiar with the Kristopeits, GNAA, the hairyfeet collective, the $699 licensing fee, Roland Niquepaille's wanky links, the subluxation tard, Michael Sims and his bitchslap script, Korean old people, armchair lawyers, keyboard ninjas and many many more.

      Many, many, oh so many. How many can mere mortals bear?

      If you think things have improved I dread to think what it was like in the few weeks between your joining and mine.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
  22. Not at all. by Alex+Belits · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Competition in games works because competition is added to something that would be less interesting without competition. Same about classroom -- students don't perceive their achievement as significant or a part of some greater picture, public display (not necessarily competitive one) affirms the significance.

    At workplace, environment usually is already competitive. Worse yet, the most "important" competition's results, salaries, are never disclosed, what already causes some uncertainty in the minds of employees (do people who clearly do worse job, actually earn more than me because they were hired this year?) Adding another "competition" seems like company trying to avoid raising salary for its best employees instead opting for cheap "badges". It sends a message -- yes, we have meritocracy here, we give worthless things to people who contributed the most, however don't expect us to actually return your loyalty with anything of value, we have salaries and bonuses determined by haggling, nepotism, management hierarchies, and $deity knows what.

    There is also another aspect to this -- a person who underperforming in a "game" would live in fear that he is going to be fired, even if his work is entirely adequate for the company's purposes.

    It's also an interesting detail that it was very common in USSR to have competition in a workplace, however first and foremost, it was based on originally non-competitive environment (no unemployment or "working poor", narrow ranges of salaries), and created "bigger picture" not unlikely one in the classroom. Second, competition was mostly between groups, not just individuals. "You suck because your construction project goes two times slower than neighbor's" hurts someone's sense of pride for his work and ability, especially when it is known that all other conditions, results and consequences are supposed to be more or less the same for his and neighbor's group. I have a strong suspicion that this is what is being imitated here. Nope. Doesn't work under Capitalism. You can't enroll the same people in three competitions at once -- one for money, one for not being thrown out, one for shiny stickers.

    --
    Contrary to the popular belief, there indeed is no God.
    1. Re:Not at all. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Didn't work in USSR either - it resulted in shortcuts and cheating.

    2. Re:Not at all. by Alex+Belits · · Score: 2

      It worked, just was undermined at some extent by taking shortcuts and cheating.

      Those are inherent problems with any competition, and they are unrelated to the fact that some forms of competition are counterproductive to begin with.

      --
      Contrary to the popular belief, there indeed is no God.
    3. Re:Not at all. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why you randomly out word? Are mental handycap?

    4. Re:Not at all. by Alex+Belits · · Score: 1

      Typos while editing.

      --
      Contrary to the popular belief, there indeed is no God.
  23. Not that useful. by kubajz · · Score: 1

    Gamification is an example of extrinsic motivation - the kind that gives you a substitute for the joy of work itself. It can be effective (in a similar way that money motivates people to do all kinds of jobs they hate) but it can be hardly a substitute for "intrinsic motivation" where you aim at making the actual work more interesting - in your example by making the training interesting and relevant to people, by avoiding all kinds of stress by submitting work in time, by giving people a greater variety of tasks, more responsibility - simply a more interesting job, not a more interesting badge.
    The outcome may seem the same... until you remove the rewards - look for reference [11] in the Wikipedia entry. That's why intrinsically motivated people keep doing their jobs even though they are extremely badly paid (in my country, that would include e.g. pastors, teachers and even doctors).
    In short - if you need "gamification" then in the first place you need to admit that the gamified job sucks.

    1. Re:Not that useful. by javaxjb · · Score: 2

      According to Punished by Rewards , which cites many studies, it can also be counterproductive, especially in work that requires creativity or teamwork. The only creativity it appears to encourage long term is cheating. It's short term productive at best and long term counterproductive at worst (here's looking at you Wall Street).

      --
      Programmers in mirror are brighter than they appear
    2. Re:Not that useful. by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      making the actual work more interesting - in your example by making the training interesting and relevant to people, by avoiding all kinds of stress by submitting work in time, by giving people a greater variety of tasks, more responsibility - simply a more interesting job, not a more interesting badge.

      But that can be gamification too. A really good game has a progression of levels over which you learn new information and skills at just the right rate, are are given a good variety of ways to use that information and skills. And that's a recipe for job satisfaction too.

      Good managers are interested in developing their staff, and use work opportunities as a tool for doing that. So are good game designers.

      Bad managers are just interested improving work related numbers. So are bad game designers.

  24. "ubiquity"? Been there, done that by KrazyDave · · Score: 1

    "Badges" as motivators might be novel or perhaps "ubiquitous" in business via "gaming" culture, but the concept goes just a lil' bit beyond gold stars on school papers. Viz: military institutions have been using badges as a motivator for, oh, about >1000 years, now.

    --
    www.chihuahuarescue.com- Help to end dog abuse, abandonment and cruelty
    1. Re:"ubiquity"? Been there, done that by Alex+Belits · · Score: 1

      military institutions have been using badges as a motivator for, oh, about >1000 years, now.

      Military at the time of war is an extremely dangerous co-operative environment on every level of its hierarchy. Harmless competition works when added on top of it. Modern workplace is usually a safe environment with both co-operation and competition already in place.

      --
      Contrary to the popular belief, there indeed is no God.
    2. Re:"ubiquity"? Been there, done that by infolation · · Score: 1

      The difference is that most military decorations are for bravery, valour and honour. For helping others rather than putting yourself first.

      Whereas competitive awards within a workplace award the individual triumphing over others.

    3. Re:"ubiquity"? Been there, done that by Daniel+Dvorkin · · Score: 3, Informative

      The difference is that most military decorations are for bravery, valour and honour. For helping others rather than putting yourself first.

      Actually, most US military decorations these days are for, um, showing up. When I was stationed in England, the RAF guys (who really have to earn their decorations; it's not unusual in the British military to go an entire career without earning more than a couple of ribbons) used to laugh their asses off at the amount of crap decorating our dress uniforms. And lest anyone think this is just an Air Force problem, I have a green uniform hanging in my closet too, and it's even gaudier than the blue one.

      Personally I'd have been a lot happier with a lot fewer decorations, and the sense of having had to really earn the ones I had; most of the people I served with felt the same way. There's probably a lesson here for the corporate "gamifiers," but I can practically guarantee you they won't learn it.

      --
      The correlation between ignorance of statistics and using "correlation is not causation" as an argument is close to 1.
    4. Re:"ubiquity"? Been there, done that by infolation · · Score: 1

      Ah, I understand your confusion.

      I'm British.

    5. Re:"ubiquity"? Been there, done that by slimshady945 · · Score: 2

      Bronze Star Medals have a lot of cache, so the officers got together and made those the end of tour awards for E7 and up. E6 and below got ARCOM's. Thing is, people who know, know that the BSM without a "V" device (for valor, indicating it's for a combat action) is just BS. I'm sure they'd go for higher awards, but you can get a BSM for non-combat action, and that's not true with higher awards what the Silver Star.

      My experience was a bit odd. Getting an ARCOM with false information (maybe just confusion as to the part I played on that mission) for not getting NJP'd on the deployment is cool; but a Combat Action Badge for what I actually did during a rocket attack would somehow "cheapen" the award. However, it's not new. I remember my grandfather mentioning how messed up the award system was during WWII, and my guess is there's some dudes at Valley Forge that didn't get anything because they're Platoon SGT thought they were a shit bird.

      It happened in the Marines, too, but it wasn't as bad, I think because promotion points weren't tied to awards. When they help you get promoted faster, there's more incentive to game the system to get more awards. Oh, well, I ETS'd a while back, so all those awards don't really mean a damn thing now, anyway.

    6. Re:"ubiquity"? Been there, done that by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      That's what you get with the "everyone's a winner" attitude we have today. Nobody can come home from a competition without some kind of prize.

      Back when I was a kid you won and you got a prize. And if you didn't win you got jack. Yes, you lost. Suck it up, loser. Work harder and next time you'll be the one with the trophy.

      And when you win one of those useless cups, you feel like the king of the world. And THAT is the difference about it. It actually meant something if you won. Today, why bother trying, I'm a winner already anyway.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    7. Re:"ubiquity"? Been there, done that by strangeintp · · Score: 0

      Plus, it's a p.i.t.a. getting all those ribbons nice and neat on a dress uniform...

    8. Re:"ubiquity"? Been there, done that by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I always assumed that US military medals worked like McDonalds' stars. You start with a chestful and every time you screw up they take one back.

    9. Re:"ubiquity"? Been there, done that by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      Medals aren't personal motivators. Soldiers don't think "I'll do this thing where I might get killed so I will get a medal." They are just in a particular challenging situation, and their training, team spirit and adrenaline kicks in, and they do something. It might be heroic and they end up getting a medal, or it might be shameful and they end up getting court marshalled.

      The reason they are there is to give a feeling of pomp, circumstance and worthiness to the profession. So that the public consider them as a group to be potential heroes rather than trained killers.

    10. Re:"ubiquity"? Been there, done that by BasilBrush · · Score: 2

      Back when I was a kid you won and you got a prize. And if you didn't win you got jack. Yes, you lost. Suck it up, loser. Work harder and next time you'll be the one with the trophy.

      The thing is, that theory didn't work so well. It bred a generation of people who think "Suck it up loser!" is a good thing to say.

      Some people have potential in a given field, some people do not. Basketball players are naturally tall, long distance runners and sprinters are built differently. For more intellectual pursuits, some people are born more intelligent than others. Some have a gift for music, etc.

      It's great that we have people that excel in different fields, and for these people success is it's own reward. Labelling people that are merely average as
      losers, is the act of a dick.

      Far better to encourage and help people to find out what they are best at, and then encourage them. At whatever level. Yes, even if they'll never be great at that thing they are best at.

      Suppose you have a disabled child. What are you going to do? Call him a loser every day because he can't do the things his siblings can?

    11. Re:"ubiquity"? Been there, done that by slew · · Score: 1

      That's what the ribbon rack with slide-on ribbons are for....

    12. Re:"ubiquity"? Been there, done that by Daniel+Dvorkin · · Score: 1

      Oh, I should have picked up on that from your spelling of "hono(u)r." Yeah, like I said, you guys earn your decorations, and I admire that.

      --
      The correlation between ignorance of statistics and using "correlation is not causation" as an argument is close to 1.
  25. Gamify the system by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 0

    "Gamifying" the system? Won't that just lead to...people gaming the system? Or is this the sort of obvious conclusion that people miss, the kind of people who have no problem using "gamify" as a verb.

    --
    Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
    1. Re:Gamify the system by El+Torico · · Score: 0

      If someone uses the world "gamify", it shows that they've already lost at mastering English.

      --
      In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is usually crucified.
    2. Re:Gamify the system by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      Masterising.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
  26. Here's how it worked at one place. by bmo · · Score: 2

    There was a quality bonus.

    Every day without a return was a dollar. After the first month, it was 2 dollars. After the second month, it was 3 dollars/day.

    The owner of the company would come around and give cash out of his pocket at the end of each month.

    It wasn't a lot of money. It was gas money. But it was goal oriented and people liked it.

    When I was apprenticing there, we got almost to the end of the third month and we got a return. A company had a new receiver and rejected a batch of hobbed gears because he didn't like the finish, because hobbing a gear leaves a scalloped effect that is apparent under decent lighting. It has nothing to do with the overall quality of the gear. He just didn't like the shine.

    Some of us were... unhappy. We were literally 3 business days from the end of the month.

    We glass beaded the gears (in our opinion, ruining the finish) and sent them back and they got accepted.

    Making a game out of the quality of the product changed people's attitudes.

    --
    BMO

    1. Re:Here's how it worked at one place. by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      I think the significant difference to the bad schemes is that this rewarded the whole team equally.

    2. Re:Here's how it worked at one place. by bmo · · Score: 1

      This.

      Typically apprentices are mentally separate, along with organizationally separate. When Scott came up to me to give me the cash, I said "I didn't expect this" and he said "You were here for the period. Everyone contributed."

      That was one of the many lessons he taught me.

      --
      BMO

    3. Re:Here's how it worked at one place. by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      Did anyone complain? There's justified returns and there's bullshit returns.

      The boss missed an opportunity there. I've worked for dickwads who spout that "the customer is always right" and they're generally assholes who never have to deal with the bastards.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    4. Re:Here's how it worked at one place. by bmo · · Score: 1

      >Did anyone complain? There's justified returns and there's bullshit returns.

      It was a "valid return" because the customer didn't like the finish. No, nobody liked the fact that it was a return and we thought the customer was an ass. But we accepted the return. Note that we "made it right" for the customer by bead blasting the gears. So it counted as a return with regards to the quality program.

      Live and learn with that particular customer. From then on, all gears were bead blasted.

      It's called being an adult about things when it comes to manufacturing.

      --
      BMO

  27. Gamification is very important by miketheanimal · · Score: 1

    The important thing to understand about modern use of gamification, is that the benefit is not to the employees (or students), nor to the company (or school). The benefit is to the management, so they can say "look, we are actively monitoring performance" and "look, we are actively seeking to improve performance". Plus, with a bit of inflation in the system, "look, performance is improving". The wider the disjunction between how the company creates products, and the typical manager's understanding of that process, the more gamification you'll see.

    1. Re:Gamification is very important by delinear · · Score: 1

      Exactly. There has been plenty of study to suggest that when you introduce a metric and measure it, the metric will grow (as people identify what you're measuring and become good at finding clever ways to maximise the scores). The huge problem is that the overall goals of a company can't be summed up with a handful of simple metrics. If you focus on price, quality goes down, focus on quality and price goes up, or employees have to work more hours to deliver low price and high quality so morale goes down, turnover increases and your other costs of business (recruitment, training) go up. The answer is good management who understand the problems of the employees and are good at delivering solutions - "gamification" (ugh) is basically just a band aid on the problem of bad management.

  28. Decent pay, fair conditions of employment by biodata · · Score: 1

    Call me a communist, but these, along with respect for the dignity of employees, seem the best motivators.

    --
    Korma: Good
    1. Re:Decent pay, fair conditions of employment by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, I'd call you an enlightened Capitalist. Communists really don't give a shit about dignity.

  29. Sales bonus by MM-tng · · Score: 1

    It is easier to drag other people down than to do actual work. Within our company this is very obvious in our sales department. People are not focussed on winning. They are focussed on other people loosing.

    1. Re:Sales bonus by foniksonik · · Score: 1

      When there are 20 people and each has to be given a piece of a typical pie, there is very little room for adjustment.

      Sounds like you have too many sales people and sales are slow. Would it be better if they just let 2-3 of you go? Then there would be some room to compete. If not then yeah it's a lot more effective to get multiple people to fail when the pie is fixed in size and you have to cut it up 20 ways.

      --
      A fool throws a stone into a well and a thousand sages can not remove it.
    2. Re:Sales bonus by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      There's something wrong if sales bonuses are a piece of a pie. Sales bonuses should be a proportion of the profit on the items sold, and should therefore be unlimited.

  30. Competition between employees: not new by fantomas · · Score: 2

    The idea of stimulating competition between employees is not new, nor is giving out "badges" such as plaques, trophies, other ritual and non-monetary icons that can be displayed to demonstrate one's prowess in front of other members of staff (e.g. "salesman of the year" "long service award").

    I am not a researcher of workplace environments (IANAROWE?) but I should imagine there is a lot of written research on employee motivation, competition, and so forth.

  31. Is this second grade? by Required+Snark · · Score: 1, Interesting
    Are they going to have milk and cookies, nap time. and craft hour?

    Grow up, you thumb sucking, diaper wearing 20 year old over-privileged snots. It's a fucking business, not a social networking site or a video game. Your motivation is to do the job and get paid.

    This is the result of helicopter parents. College grads are showing up for job interviews with their parents, or having their mom call and chew out the boss when they don't get a big enough raise. This crap happens at big New York financial firms, for God's sake.

    The US will be screwed when this generation takes over. I can just see them trying to negotiate with Chinese or Indian firms and calling their doddering parents to whine that the people on the other side of the table are not playing fair.

    --
    Why is Snark Required?
    1. Re:Is this second grade? by bmo · · Score: 1

      Grow up, you thumb sucking, diaper wearing 20 year old over-privileged snots. It's a fucking business, not a social networking site or a video game. Your motivation is to do the job and get paid.

      This is nothing but whining BS on your part.

      See my post further up the thread for *one* example of how it can work.

      --
      BMO

    2. Re:Is this second grade? by Bieeanda · · Score: 1

      This isn't the twentysomethings. This is their forty, fifty year old bosses, fresh from the change of life, desperate to look 'with it' and feel young again, trying to adopt their kids' lingo like the dads in a bad sitcom. You know, the people who have had the time and opportunity to rise to their level of incompetence in management.

    3. Re:Is this second grade? by delinear · · Score: 1

      I'd be more motivated by milk, cookies and nap time (especially nap time) than pointless gold stars.

    4. Re:Is this second grade? by slew · · Score: 1

      Nap time would be good... So would milk and cookies... Didn't a bunch of dot-coms try this strategy?

    5. Re:Is this second grade? by LunaticTippy · · Score: 1

      It is easy to find fault with kids these days and worry about the future, but try to remember that people have been saying this since the dawn of civilization.

      --
      Man, you really need that seminar!
  32. Hmmm... another 'Gaming' concept Gartner liked... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I attended a Gartner 'Summit' 5-6 years ago. I recall talk of 'Second Life', 'Avatars' and 'virtual shopfronts' as inevitablities. :-)

  33. If you need this, you're in the wrong job. by hachre · · Score: 1

    If someone needs motivation by gamification in his job then it's just clear that they are just doing the wrong thing for them. If companies introduce gamification into their workplaces all this tells me is that they know that they hire people who don't belong there in order to pretend to do something but in reality nobody is interested in actually doing anything.

  34. Depends on the Job by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    For jobs with short-term oriented goals, I can see this as successful.
    For jobs with mid to long-term oriented goals, this will have no effect.

    My mindset tends to work in 3-4 month increments, my spouse's in 3-4 year increments each based on the nature of our respective work. We also both regularly work 60 hours a week. Short-term motivators won't cut it for us when we are focused on achieving the end-goal, not simply what looks good today.

    However, [citation needed], psychological studies have shown time and time again that for such short-term rewards, the only thing that does not have diminishing returns is money. Gold stars / leadership boards / respect have diminishing returns, money does not. If they want to may me more for doing the same job, I won't complain.

  35. Companies specialize in this by hipp5 · · Score: 1

    My friend works for Achievers (www.achievers.com). Basically, their business is providing gamification to other businesses. You give points and stuff to coworkers for doing good things, which they can then turn in for prizes. It's all kinda creepy and false IMO.

  36. In Soviet Russia... (for real, actually) by deoxyribonucleose · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I used to think gamification was an interesting idea which might lead somewhere: especially when dealt with as kudos, since monetary rewards so easily can lead to really counterproductive behaviours. Then I realized it had already been tried: in Soviet Russia, no less, under names such as 'socialist competition'. http://www.kmjn.org/notes/soviet_gamification.html

    Now, the fact that the idea is not new is not an automatic rejection of the idea; but its history should be carefully considered to avoid replicating failure. Can gamification be managed so as to 1) reward both short and long term objectives, 2) avoid acting at cross purposes to monetary rewards 3) make it serious enough to affect sufficient numbers of employees, and 4) still be fun? I don't think I'm smart enough to setup such a system. Good luck to those who try: it'll be interesting to see any results.

    1. Re:In Soviet Russia... (for real, actually) by Alex+Belits · · Score: 1

      See my comment above for description of this very thing (and why it is not applicable to workplace under Capitslism).

      --
      Contrary to the popular belief, there indeed is no God.
  37. Extra Credits Talked about this a long time ago by Jetra · · Score: 0

    http://extra-credits.net/episodes/gamification/

    You don't have to watch it, but the narrator, Daniel Floyd, who works for Pixar Canada and is a game enthusiast, gives some pretty cool ideas. there is one more episode that was requested by teachers on a possible way to apply this to the classroom. He gives some good ideas that I would have thought of myself or anyone else if they spent an afternoon thinking about it. Link is provided.

    http://extra-credits.net/episodes/gamifying-education/

  38. Encouraging people is easy by _Shad0w_ · · Score: 4, Informative

    You know how to make me feel encouraged or valued? Just acknowledge what I'm doing from time to time. Say "thank you" or even just comment on the fact that I did some work over the weekend.

    Where I work this actually happens, and it sure as hell means more to me than some fucking gold star or my name on a board. I hate attention being drawn to me publicly, I much prefer private acknowledgement. The letter I got from HR noting my contributions to a specific project along with telling me I had a £2k pay rise effective immediately? Also nice.

    --

    Yeah, I had a sig once; I got bored of it.

    1. Re:Encouraging people is easy by HBI · · Score: 1

      But wait, acknowledging you would be actual work...how about this automated game instead?

      --
      HBI's Law: Frequency of calling others Nazis is directly correlated with the likelihood of the accuser being Communist.
    2. Re:Encouraging people is easy by retroworks · · Score: 1

      This is true. People are happier doing the same job where they are recognized, far more than they are satisfied by the same job where they are paid more and ignored. But this also disproves the concept in the article about "gamification". Current monetary policy is already a form of "gamification".

      "Encouragement" and "motivation" means giving appreciation, whether it's money or tokens. "Gamification" seems to mean that someone gets to "play banker" or company Dungeon master, creating an alternative bureaucracy. The "new currency" in the game really just exposes the obvious - it's not all about paper, whether it's a check or a bill or a paper star. Society adapted tradeable currency long ago. You cannot really eat money or gold. Once "gold stars", D&D "experience points", "bitcoins" and other "attaboys" become tradeable, they become a commodity. Either it's no longer a game at that point, or the word "gamification" is describing something quite ordinary (motivation/encouragement), not a unique approach worthy of the dictionary.

      --
      Gently reply
  39. Slashdot? by smittyoneeach · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    Oh, please give me a +1 insightful mod, and pump up the tires on my karma, oh benevolent Slashgodz, please!

    --
    Get thee glass eyes, and, like a scurvy politician, seem to see things thou dost not.--King Lear
    1. Re:Slashdot? by Jeremiah+Cornelius · · Score: 1

      +1 Rawkz.

      --
      "Flyin' in just a sweet place,
      Never been known to fail..."
    2. Re:Slashdot? by smittyoneeach · · Score: 1

      [weeping] Thank you. . .

      --
      Get thee glass eyes, and, like a scurvy politician, seem to see things thou dost not.--King Lear
  40. This is really so abhorrent by smittyoneeach · · Score: 1

    [sarc]
    All of this competition smacks of watered down capitalism.
    Capitalism, of course, is that failed source of all human misery.
    We must reject all comparisons of right/wrong, better/worse, vaguely homosexual/slightly Canadian, in order to regain the idyllic, Edenic, stress-free, Utopian existence which is our natural right.
    [/sarc]

    --
    Get thee glass eyes, and, like a scurvy politician, seem to see things thou dost not.--King Lear
    1. Re:This is really so abhorrent by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 1

      <NOSARC>
      You are a strawman masturbator.
      </NOSARC>

      --

      --
      make install -not war

  41. Gamification == competition? by macraig · · Score: 1

    These techniques abuse and promote competition rather than cooperation. They train people to view their peers as somewhat benign threats rather than colleagues. I suspect that it's techniques like this that prevent societies from being able to effectively transition to collectivism.

    1. Re:Gamification == competition? by Alex+Belits · · Score: 1

      They work if the original environment is "too" co-operative, and a person may lose a reference point for how the effect of his work changes anything.

      They don't work when original environment was competitive, or co-operation was insufficient to begin with.

      --
      Contrary to the popular belief, there indeed is no God.
    2. Re:Gamification == competition? by gl4ss · · Score: 1

      well to promote co-operation you would have to have actual rewards given to whole team for team effort. just giving a sticker to one guy and shaming the others indirectly that way is cheap, doesn't offend anyone on paper and ultimately meaningless for the guy receiving the sticker too.

      --
      world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
    3. Re:Gamification == competition? by macraig · · Score: 1

      Right. Who does actually benefit? As you said, it ain't the employee.

  42. Badges? by kwark · · Score: 3, Funny

    Badges? We don't need no stinkin' badges!

  43. Games Copied Life by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 1

    Not only was giving gold stars and showing leaders publicly not intentionally "gamification", this summary has the relationship backwards. It's the games that copied real life practices like those. Games are increasingly realistic. Of course, that's because all of life is adopting practices used in other ways in the past in new situations. Since real life came first, games copied RL, and then RL repeated the compliment by copying the updated practice from games.

    --

    --
    make install -not war

  44. Gah! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I tend to have an attitude of "I'm here to do work, keep out of my way", if the pointed haired types get a kick of out systems like this that's up to them, if my general attitude of "keep your damn leaderboard and key performance indicators away from me" causes them a problem then I'll take my genius elsewhere ta very much.

    Usually they just let me get on with my job and if they have to report back to their PHB overlords they just make shit up as needed.

    If anyone approaches me with an "Annual Assessment Form" I usually just growl at them and they scuttle away in fear....

  45. I thoought payment was motivation for work by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If the little gold stars are printed on a check I'm all for it.

    1. Re:I thoought payment was motivation for work by clay_shooter · · Score: 1

      So its really about finding the right type of "gold star" or reward...

  46. badges?! by l3v1 · · Score: 1

    One example would be assigning badges

    Well, that would be the day when I'd stick such badges up in the originator's behind and leave for greaner pastures.

    This is not gamification, it's introduction of idiotic, ignorant and almost always unncessary extra race factors, with the negative aspect over all others that this type only motivates the idiots at your company and the rest will feel as being considered a child.

    Some managers just need to be kicked out when they are stupid, not all their ideas are great, understood? Good. Now get back to work.

    --
    I am putting myself to the fullest possible use, which is all I can think that any conscious entity can ever hope to do.
  47. yes and no by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    when i was a kid it was a semi-motivator. kids that didn't care wouldn't try. but you'd get a bunch of kids putting in some effort to try lift their game. overall it was tough to get a sticker. do well and you got a simple reward for it. but on a larger scale it meant effort = reward which was an investment in your future work ethic later on. i wasn't top dog in getting stickers but i had my fair share.

    of course the problem is that parents eventually get involved. when their kid hasn't gotten a sticker they complain to the teachers. the kid may be struggling, have a learning problem, or they just don't care. either way the parents want the teachers to reward the kid anyway in order to "encourage" them. that way no-one is a "loser". the result is the whole sticker system is heavily devalued. what's the point of getting a sticker if you'll get one anyway for a "good try" without putting in any effort? hence we end up with a system where "everyone is a winner". in that kind of a system, where is the motivation to do well when you generally don't see the results for years to come (it's hard to get a kid to plan that far ahead).

    of course parents of sutdents putting in a lot of effort argue their student should be rewarded better. the worry being that not rewarding well is a demotivator for good students. thus you get a downward spiral. on one side, parents ask for better rewards for good students. on the other, parents ask for better rewards for worse students to raise the bar and encourage them to put in effort. in the end, with a bad balance it will drag down good performing students.

    the same applies to the workplace. you can add various motivators to encourage people to try do well. people that don't do well should not be rewarded. never raise the minimum bar unless you're absolutely forced to by law. that way those that want to succeed put in the effort. those that want to cruise can barely just get by. you eventually cull those that put in zero effort and bring in a new batch of employees to replace them. never make the rewards too excessive or the "game" becomes about maximising their own personal interests (such as CEOs getting excessive bonus for hitting a certain target regardless of long term consequences).

    where things fall over though is with unions. i'm not saying they're bad. it's more there needs to be a balance. unions are there to serve the interests of all workers of the union. the collective bargaining power basically tips the game in favour of the workers. unions will bargain for a pretty good minimum for all workers regardless of how much effort if put in by the worker. so as a union worker, there's no incentive for the "collective" to put in extra effort when they're guaranteed a pretty good minimum (else the company faces industrial action). so in the end the union ends up being the parents arguing for good rewards for everyone regardless of effort.

    so with a bad balance, a downward spiral begins. good workers won't put the effort in as their counterparts get the same pay, treatment, and rewards with a lot less effort. hence good workers become demotivated which brings performance to a tedium everyone is happy to work.

    so overall, gamification only works when there are definitive winners and losers.
    when everyone is a winner, it's no longer a game.

    1. Re:yes and no by Chrisq · · Score: 1

      I agree in principle, but the "never raise the minimum bar unless you're absolutely forced to by law" implies that you just have a binary reward scheme. Ideally you should be able to give graded rewards, with the lowest level being achievable by an average worker trying hard. Of course the best workers need a higher reward than this.

  48. Re:if ( Question in Title ) Answer = no; by Chrisq · · Score: 2

    Nope. Not a good motivator. More precisely it's a motivator for the wrong type of behaviour. Once you "gamify" a system, you've just added one more layer of indirection, and several orders of magnitude more ways to game the system.

    Perfection in game design is not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to cheat.

    I have actually seen that happen. A bonus scheme based on the number of incidents fixed meant that teams quickly found out that rather than "try something, test, try something, test" until it worked, if they instead would "try something, send back to user as done" it would not only mean that they could move on to the next problem quicker, but also have the added bonus that the user would probably have to raise another problem report on the same incident. Quality went down, incidents went up, bonuses went up - for nearly two months until the scheme was revised.

  49. I like what my company does by Nidi62 · · Score: 1

    My company is a major international company. What they do is this: they have a points reward system where you can exchange the points for anything from American Express giftcards, to hotel rooms, to jewelry, even a few boats(if you get millions of points). You can get points in several ways: the main, regular way is by your department reaching certain monthly goals; the other way is by supervisors/other people recommending you for points awards, which are then approved by your supervisor. So the reward system has actual, tangible value. Of course, you are also dependent on your supervisor; some hand out the points like candy, others can be very stingy. But at the very least you can still get the monthly points as those are tied solely to department performance.

    --
    The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
  50. Re:Oh no, what did you just do? by f3rret · · Score: 0

    I think they got bored of it, wonder what the next one will be.

    --
    Admit nothing. Deny Everything. Make Counter-accusations.
  51. Workplace? by gr8_phk · · Score: 2

    But in the workplace?

    In the workplace it pits employees against each other. Not exactly a "team building" option. I also didn't see any indication of research by Gartner on this one. Are they just making predictions based on how they feel things should be done? Or did they actually ask company leaders about their "gamification" strategies?

    1. Re:Workplace? by geekoid · · Score: 1

      Depends on implementation. It can pit employees against each other; but it can also improve the group.
      If you turn it into 'Get the most of X', then it's broken at the beginning.

      Example: Sales.

      Don't give the person who gets the mos sale a gold star. It will always be the same few people, and it will crush moral.

      Give everyone a gold star if the worse sales person increases their sales. Now you have the best people trying to figure out how to make the worse sales person better. Reward everyone when everyone improves.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
  52. mixed opinion by pbjones · · Score: 1

    I'm a gamer and gamification annoys me, mainly because I'll treat the task as a game and not a learning experience. BUT I can see it as a way to motivate others.

    --
    There was an unknown error in the submission.
  53. Gamification: How to Get It Wrong by CaptainOfSpray · · Score: 1

    From my days in the "large blue multinational computer company" sales force:
    "How do you find out you're in a sales competition?"
    "They announce in a team meeting that you won a prize".
    No kidding, this happened so often there was a joke about it.

    --
    "Cock Up Your Beaver" does not mean what you think. This sig is intended to clog filters and annoy do-gooders
  54. Could be good by hackula · · Score: 1

    I use a form of it when I use a time tracker at work (personal choice, not company mandated). My tracker has a prominent bar chart with my percentage of productive time vs the average of everyone else using the tool. I make a game out of it and try to keep my bar higher than the average. Personally, I am not motivated at all by the more public forms of gamification; I could care less about a gold star. I feel like if it is used as an actual performance metric that the PHBs can get their greasy hands all over, it breaks down. After all, games are meant to be gamed. People have been trying to come up with even a few quantifiable metrics to evaluate software engineers for years, and every one of them can be gamed. Lines of code: a recipe for copy/paste olympics. Fewest bugs: projects get delayed as the balance between speed and quality get out of whack, or the smartest coders use their weight to get the easiest projects. Most features: 80% of the bug reports are unwanted features, not actual "glitches". For lines of code specifically, Bill Gates once said that "measuring software by lines of code is like measuring airplanes by weight". I tend to think that for most metrics used in this way (even outside programming), they misdirect workers from using common sense and reduce overall quality.

    1. Re:Could be good by Dcnjoe60 · · Score: 1

      I use a form of it when I use a time tracker at work (personal choice, not company mandated). My tracker has a prominent bar chart with my percentage of productive time vs the average of everyone else using the tool. I make a game out of it and try to keep my bar higher than the average. Personally, I am not motivated at all by the more public forms of gamification; I could care less about a gold star. I feel like if it is used as an actual performance metric that the PHBs can get their greasy hands all over, it breaks down. After all, games are meant to be gamed. People have been trying to come up with even a few quantifiable metrics to evaluate software engineers for years, and every one of them can be gamed. Lines of code: a recipe for copy/paste olympics. Fewest bugs: projects get delayed as the balance between speed and quality get out of whack, or the smartest coders use their weight to get the easiest projects. Most features: 80% of the bug reports are unwanted features, not actual "glitches". For lines of code specifically, Bill Gates once said that "measuring software by lines of code is like measuring airplanes by weight". I tend to think that for most metrics used in this way (even outside programming), they misdirect workers from using common sense and reduce overall quality.

      But you are doing this for you. What if your employer were doing it and posting it for all to see?

    2. Re:Could be good by hackula · · Score: 1
      Did you read what I wrote?

      I feel like if it is used as an actual performance metric that the PHBs can get their greasy hands all over, it breaks down.

  55. If it gets management to collect metrics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    then it might actually be better than being judged by managers on how much they like you

  56. Because... by gestalt_n_pepper · · Score: 1

    being condescended to at home wasn't *enough*

    --
    Please do not read this sig. Thank you.
  57. Works for /. by Petron · · Score: 1

    Considering that /. has a gamification system in place for posts, and that it works...at least in some cases.

    Every post here has a score. Post something positive (Funny, member of the 3 I's, etc) and you gain points. If you post something stupid, try to flamebait, etc, lose points.

    Points affect karma score, and also affects (I believe) getting points to give to others.

    Now do I want to see gamification at my hospital... going into to surgery and seeing a score board for "10 pts for organ removed, 15 pts for replacement organ, -1 pt for every 20 minutes in surgery"... I wouldn't be happy.

    --
    if (it != oneThing) it = another;
  58. Stackoverflow by dumcob · · Score: 1

    Stackoverflow is, I think, a good example of how giving out badges and points helps. The knowledge base they have accumulated is amazing. Nowadays, I find most things I need, without even posting a question.

    However, I realized it did have an interesting effect when contributing answers. This happened a couple times to me. I would contribute a long answer with all kinds of details and would get annoyed when the questioner would say a (genuine) thanks without upvoting the answer or marking it as the right answer. I mean, here I am, pissed off about some points that wont effect my life in anyway whatsoever, when I should just be happy, that I was able to help someone out.

    I think the ideal evolution of such systems would get us to points where we just feel good that we are helping out, rather than reinforcing some mindless craving for a reward.

  59. Not a Good Substitute for Money by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There is already a "gamification" system where you get pretty monopoly money ... and it can occasionally be used to buy stuff.

    Inevitably the "gamification" b.s. boils down to consultants and technology firms trying to convince workers into doing more for less money in exchange for an even more worthless compensation. Good luck.

  60. Who engages with stuff like this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You've got to be a proper idiot engage with stupid tricks like awarding badges.

    Honestly anyone not taking the piss and doing their utmost to ruin the game are assholes.

  61. rah rah rah by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    we've had to all have sit through conference calls where upper management makes a big deal out of so and so for doing thier job...
    and we just continue playing BS bingo...

    the gold stickers just dont cut it...

  62. Re:Works for medical institutions also by clay_shooter · · Score: 1

    Doctor and hospital ratings are public scores that we do check. The better the medical rating, the more likely I am to use them. The only caveat is that I expect the system to be policed in a way that it's hard to "game" the scores.

  63. Money is not really a motivator by SuperKendall · · Score: 5, Interesting

    money...Plain and simple, THAT is my motivator at work.

    Lots of studies have shown money is not a great motivator.

    From my own personal experience, bonuses for projects are not really a lasting motivator, they feel nice for a day perhaps but they do not make you happier or really alter how you work.

    Trinkets do not help either. One of the few things I do think can be a motivator is control - as a reward instead of cash or gifts, give the employes some more control over their life at work. Let them choose the next project to work on. Give them extra time (like Google does) to improve any old thing in the company they feel is messed up. That's a lot more permanently empowering and enjoyable than money.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    1. Re:Money is not really a motivator by jimbolauski · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Gold stickers, cash, pats on the back all do very little to motivate a worker, what it comes down to is the workers pride in what they do. Everything else is in the noise when compared to a person's own work ethic. No amount of external reward will ever be enough to motivate a lazy person to work hard, a manager's job is to enable his employees to do their job. We hired a group of folks recently because the company they were working for insisted that the control system that they were developing use windows because every computer had to have windows. The manager took his group and the contract over to us because he wasn't going to deal with converting 5 years of custom software that worked perfectly fine on Linux over to windows.

      --
      Knowledge = Power
      P= W/t
      t=Money
      Money = Work/Knowledge so the less you know the more you make
    2. Re:Money is not really a motivator by fuzzlost · · Score: 1

      Everyone wants to be appreciated and recognized for their hard work. Sometimes, the absolute best motivator a boss or co-worker can provide is simply saying, "You really nailed that project! It looks great!" or "Hey, I really appreciate you working a little overtime to get that project out," or "Thanks for dealing with that unruly client, you're saving our relationship with that company."

      Minor praise like that adds up. It makes you want to do better, work harder. Dale Carnegie quoted Charles Schwab and said "Give honest and sincere appreciation - as Charles Schwab said - 'be hearty in your approbation and lavish in your praise'. This doesn't mean give false praise." and Mark Twain is quoted as saying, "I can live for two months on a good compliment."

      Any other external motivator (cash, time off, flexible hours, personal projects) are always nice, but their motivational benefit is going to be fleeting at best. I don't remember specific cash bonuses I've ever received (and I've gotten a few), but I remember the kind words of praise that my co-workers have laid on me as though they happened yesterday.

    3. Re:Money is not really a motivator by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Research shows that, while employers can decide what to offer as motivators, each employee determines what actually works as a motivator. For every person, there's more than one thing that works, and what works for one doesn't necessarily work for another. What works for one under "X" circumstances doesn't necessarily work under "Y" circumstances.

      This insight is one of the fundamental discoveries of behavioral science.

      (And, among tech people, money is a statistically poor performer as a motivator. But it does work for some techies under some circumstances.)

    4. Re:Money is not really a motivator by cayenne8 · · Score: 1

      Everyone wants to be appreciated and recognized for their hard work. Sometimes, the absolute best motivator a boss or co-worker can provide is simply saying, "You really nailed that project! It looks great!" or "Hey, I really appreciate you working a little overtime to get that project out," or "Thanks for dealing with that unruly client, you're saving our relationship with that company."

      Well, sure, a nice word is nice and always appreciated, but if it doesn't pad my bank account, it means very little to me, and is forgotten as soon as I walk away from the boss or the quarterly 'rah rah' with awards ends.

      I'm a bit of a mercenary...I do whatever job is needed for money, plain and simple. You pay me enough, and I don't really give a rats ass if I don't get any praise.

      I think the rewards or congratulations mentality...is something from days long gone by, when you could work for a company for a long time, even a job for life, where you felt loyalty from said company and the people you work for.

      Well, that work paradigm simply doesn't exist any longer...you as a worker are nothing more than an expendable asset...used and can quickly be tossed aside for any reason. I'm ok with that. I have no loyalty to any company (unless I own it). These days...you work, make money and if you're smart, you look for the next job to get more salary (if you're W2) and position. You generally aren't going to get either of these staying at one job for too long.

      This is especially true in this economy. There are plenty of jobs out there if you're qualified and can do good work....and if you have some personality to sell yourself. You have to be flexible and willing to go to the job wherever it is in the country. Fortunately, more and more, telecommuting is available and you can keep from traveling and do your work remotely.

      But the name of the game is money. If you're working (in 99% of the cases, there are still a few exceptions) for the company and have a warm feeling about them, loyalty and think you're not expendable...you are a fool.

      You can still do what you like for an occupation...nothing wrong with enjoying your work, but remember, money is what greases the wheels on your life....and money allows you flexibility to KEEP doing what you want as far as a work occupation is in addition to your personal lifestyle.

      Make as much money as you can...sock a good bit of it away, so that if you find yourself between jobs or contracts...you can float for time till you get another job that interests you.

      If you don't pursue as much money as you can...then, you lose that option for 'happy work'...when you get desperate and become at risk for losing home and things important to your family if you have one.

      You work for money...get it, it is the bottom line. Any work you do..should not be FREE, it should not be for the good of the company (nice if it works out that way, and often does), but remember, when it comes down to it....it is about You and your life and lifestyle.

      A gold star or handshake doesn't cut it in the real world unless it is backed up by compensation...that is what makes it meaningful.

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    5. Re:Money is not really a motivator by Americano · · Score: 2

      "Give me enough medals, and I’ll win you any war."
      Napoleon Bonaparte

      In general, I agree - autonomy, interesting work, genuine appreciation, and easing administrative hassles are all things I value far more than "here's an extra 50 bucks, thanks." But the social value of those trinkets shouldn't be overlooked.

      Think about it - how often do you walk around your workplace and see co-workers with various trinket-y awards, memos, plaques, etc. on display in their cubicles? The reason they're doing it is that there's some pride associated with it - it's a physical token of somebody's gratitude or respect for them and their work, that they can show off to their peers. Even though nobody's going to walk up and demand their autograph because "Oh my god, you have a Chairman's Appreciation Plaque award!" but people will notice it, and some will say, "Wow, that's cool, congratulations." It engenders positive feedback.

      Now, you can certainly take it too far, and cheapen the gesture altogether by handing them out like candy, for meaningless reasons; But used judiciously, even the trinkets can be effective motivators.

      Money, extra paid time (or flexible time), trinkets, autonomy, appreciation - all of these are (or at least can be, depending on the individual) motivational awards. The key is to use the right tools in the right proportion.

    6. Re:Money is not really a motivator by DrVomact · · Score: 1

      money...Plain and simple, THAT is my motivator at work.

      Lots of studies have shown money is not a great motivator.

      It's certainly not the only motivator. I've left well-paid jobs because I felt that my work was pointless. I've also left jobs because I felt underpaid. Money is not the only motivator, but it's certainly a major consideration.

      Trinkets do not help either. One of the few things I do think can be a motivator is control - as a reward instead of cash or gifts, give the employes some more control over their life at work.

      Heh. I was once handed a massive (and rather high quality) framing hammer as my "reward" for "helping to complete the project on time". I had no idea what project I was being rewarded for (and the person doing the rewarding didn't know either). Under the circumstances, the hammer couldn't be said to constitute much of an incentive (you've got to know which of your deeds are being rewarded, after all). But it was a damn fine hammer.

      I was once asked to come up with ideas to reward tech writers for superior job performance. That one was easygift certificates to Amazon (back when it only sold books). That worked fairly well. I always tried to come up with motivators that I would want if I were to win one. Tools (of the hardware store variety) were never on the list.

      --
      Great men are almost always bad men--Lord Acton's Corollary
    7. Re:Money is not really a motivator by cayenne8 · · Score: 1

      Think about it - how often do you walk around your workplace and see co-workers with various trinket-y awards, memos, plaques, etc. on display in their cubicles?

      I guess I 'see' them, but I really don't take much of any notice of them

      Me? Well, I look at the back of the plaque they hand me...if it has a check taped on the back, I take that off...and toss the plaque in the trash when I get back to my cube...they just clutter up the area and are worthless.

      The money, I do appreciate tho....

      Maybe I should just frame and post the cancelled checks?

      :)

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    8. Re:Money is not really a motivator by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Work hard to get additional paid vacation time... now that would motivate me!!

  64. Maybe.. Re:Gamification == competition? by clay_shooter · · Score: 1

    These techniques abuse and promote competition rather than cooperation. They train people to view their peers as somewhat benign threats rather than colleagues. I suspect that it's techniques like this that prevent societies from being able to effectively transition to collectivism.

    It all depends how you structure the rewards. Most people do part-personal and part-team. We do want high-achievers to feel appreciated but we want to also encourage team work. I've seen this done well with agile teams. They are self organizing so encouraging the high productivity of a team can act as an additional reward.

  65. We couldn't give a rip by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They did this when I was in grade school. I was a slow learner, so I never got a star, gold or otherwise. They used to use silver and gold. I don't remember if I gave a damn or not. I think that it was a little embarrassing to never have one though.

    I drove a hazmat tanker 3 year just before I retired (lost programming job). They had a monthly board where they would put different colored circles denoting that you had not had any accidents or incidents, or had an accident (with another vehicle) or incident (ran over a pipe at a refinery, etc). The only reason we would look at it was to see who had been bad and find out what happened. It was actually a gossip board. After a while, people would grow weary of the system and not look at it at all.

    Companies need to leave this grade school nonsense where it belongs. It is an extremely childish practice. There is a good possibility that it might also discourage good employees to move on, seeing that management is not seeing and/or appreciating their work.

  66. Re:Hmmm... another 'Gaming' concept Gartner liked. by delinear · · Score: 1

    On the one hand virtual shopfronts always felt like a novelty that would play itself out really quickly. On the other hand, smartphones and tablets have kind of made the concept of a virtual world we all travel to in order to interact/transact obsolete. In a way, people still browse virtual shopfronts and do business there, but they don't need to log onto a central server and instead of "virtual shopfronts" we call them "apps".

  67. Rattle by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "It is claimed that the Legion of Honor is a rattle. Well, it is with rattles that one leads men."
    - Napoléon Bonaparte.

    ("On prétend que la Légion d’Honneur est un hochet. Et bien, c’est avec des hochets que l’on mène les hommes.")

    (Fun fact : captcha for this comment was "admiral". Yes, like Nelson.)

  68. Until... by Dcnjoe60 · · Score: 1

    Gamification, or what we used to call extrinsic rewards, will probably continue to grow until the first major lawsuit over how it is being used to discriminate or violate privacy. If gamification is used as part of performance reviews and employee performance reviews are confidential, then does it violate privacy? If it can be shown that the best rewards go to the men or whites or pick your category, even if it is non-monetary, is it a form of workplace hostility.

    My suggestion would be to leave gaming rewards to gamers and businesses to focus on more traditional forms of recognition.

  69. why does anyone do anything? by mbaGeek · · Score: 1
    human motivation is always tricky - mostly because you can never really know what is going on inside someone else's head. What motivates one person might not motivate another.

    the dead Greek guy thought (Aristotle) is that there must be a root cause for all human action. Why do people get up and go to work? They need money. Why do they need money? They have bills to pay. Why do they have bills to pay? They need things. - and so on, until you get to the root motivator. Aristotle argued that this root motivator is "happiness."

    so the reason people do things is because (they think) it will make them happy (please remember that philosophers/psychologists/lovers have been arguing over this subject for as long as people have been arguing - we are dealing with the ultimate "black box" in the human mind)

    the practical advice is that people want to do useful work that has a purpose. if you feel that your job is pointless ("yeah, about the cover on the tps reports"), giving you a gold star for turning in your pointless work on time isn't going to help. If you feel that your work is important and you are emotionally involved in the process then you might think that putting explosives in your underwear is a good idea - and then the gold star is really pointless.

    my personal opinion is that "gamification" might work for certain people/certain jobs - but not as a long term motivator

    --
    It ain't what they call you. It's what you answer to. http://mylyceum.us/
  70. TPS Achievement Unlocked! by DarthVain · · Score: 1

    Achievement System

    I can think of lots of horrible achievements:

    The Weekender
    Overtime
    Bootlicker
    Pushover ...

  71. Forget the Games by golfnomad · · Score: 1

    I don't need Rah Rah Ziss Boom Bah Show me dah money!!!!! Now you have my attention and motivation

  72. someone tried this at my office years ago... by slew · · Score: 1

    Attempting to shame folks into not breaking the build by checking in new files w/o building the whole tree (> 1 hour endeavor for cmodel + rtl), someone put up a "leader board" with a gold star for every confirmed build break.

    Unfortunatly, this lead to 2 common extreme behaviours. The first was some folks were so fearful of breaking the build, they always built the whole tree (rather than say just the cmodel) for even very minor check-ins wasting lots of their time (often waiting for a floating licence to compile the rtl). Other more reckless folks relishing in getting long chains of gold stars to show that they were being productive (and just occasionally breaking the build) and thus were probably more reckless than normal ultimatly wasting other people's time with broken (although easy-to-fix) builds. For most other folks, we just essentially ignored it. So basically other than a silly in-office entertainment diversion, the net effect on group productivity was likely near-zero.

    I imagine that most attempts at gamification will end up this way. Net zero...

  73. Not the same by reiisi · · Score: 1

    First, it you, not your boss, especially not your boss's boss.

    Second, you don't have co-workers and other people oogling your carrots and sticks.

    Third, what constitutes privacy depends a the person

    --
    Computer memory is just fancy paper, CPUs just fancy pens with fancy erasers; the 'net is just a fancy backyard fence.
  74. Boeing by PPH · · Score: 1

    Back when I worked at the Boeing Commercial Aircraft Division, I was involved in a project to build an engineering document configuration control system. They already had an existing process and system in place, but it had fallen afoul of FAA regulations, was horribly expensive and difficult to use*, resulting in high error rates (which is what got the FAA involved). So, management gave us the charter to build a better system. They couldn't just pull the plug on the legacy stuff, or all its support staff would just walk. So, they told us to build ours for one production facility (Renton), leaving the old system (and staff) in place at the other (Everett).

    After a few months, we gout ours up and running and, after showing it to engineering and manufacturing management (the end users) ours was selected.

    The system worked well from the company's point of view. But it did have its drawbacks. The competition created a lot of political in-fighting between the two divisions. And as management wasn't on its toes, so to speak, they didn't referee the process correctly. After the final decision, there were quite a few morale problems on the losing side. A number of good s/w people quit the company. This is another problem management didn't deal with well. In any sort of process improvement, the (desired) more efficient process is going to require less resources (people). The less efficient one will need more. So the end result is that people are always going to be surplussed. This isn't a problem in companies where the workload is high and demand for developers is growing. But in an environment where work is being spun off to foreign firms (as at Boeing), the employment pressure is higher.

    Its interesting to note that they are trying this approach again, with the production of 787s being split between Washington State and South Carolina. Metrics will be compared and management rewarded based on relative performance.

    * We had the advantage here in that this was done during the mid '90s, when the Web was just coming into being. What the legacy apps did (on text-based terminals) with massive s/w development resources, we could do very quickly and with a much more intuitive UI.

    --
    Have gnu, will travel.
  75. gaming at work by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I think badges for doing certain things (ie, launching a product) are good things, especially for long term employees where others can see what they've done. Giving people 'levels' depending on their experience in the company with tools or technologies might be good too...I often wonder "Just WTF does that guy do?" Informal rewards such as half days for pulling off critical items that others couldn't is nice too, so it doesn't feel like you're carrying someone else 'for nothing'.

    The whole 'answer 1 ticket get a point' is just way too open to corrupting the process.

  76. Re:We use points in Agile project management by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    If anyone has done scrums/Sprints/etc, then you will know what I am referring to. We receive "points" for completing tasks or stories. Even though in the spirit of the model, you are not supposed to shame or put down people not completing stories, that seems to happen often . Those with the most stories completed seem to be praised, those with fewer completed get bashed. This sounds like what is being described as the gamification factor added to project lifecycle management,

    Which is why us old-timers regard Agile as merely the latest revision of "reward people for fixing bugs", knowing full well what happened the last time: people added bugs, just so they could take credit for fixing them.

    (The real greybeards are those around long enough to recognize that "rewarding people for fixing bugs" was my generation's version of measuring productivity as a linear function of KLoC - counting lines of code.)

  77. **Acheivement** : 100th post on Slashdot!! by uslurper · · Score: 1

    What do you think about a system of acheivements like in MMO's?

    i thought this would be fun for our helpdesk, and it could be both individual and group based.

    **Acheivement** : help desk has closed 10000 tickets!!
    **Acheivement** : newb teckie has closed his 10th ticket!

    if you want to make it fun, then make it silly and random.
    if you want warm fuzzy teammwork, dont treat people like dirt.
    If you want to increase stats, promote an enabling environment. (try cutting out the useless work, listen to your employees)

    --
    oldhack: "Security is a waste of money until shit hits the fan. 5 minutes later, it becomes waste of money again. "
    1. Re:**Acheivement** : 100th post on Slashdot!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What do you think about a system of acheivements like in MMO's?

      **Achievement** : your equity - everyone gets equity in this company - has doubled.
      **Achievement** : your net worth - thanks to everyone racking up a few dozen "the equity has been doubled" achievements - is over $10,000,000 - you win the game.

      The only game I want to play at work is the game at which I can keep score with my net worth, so that I can afford to quit and play a game of my own choosing.

  78. Re:if ( Question in Title ) Answer = no; by geekoid · · Score: 1

    False, but hey, people like you don't needs to actually understand what people are talking about before chiming in.

    --
    The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
  79. Reward me with promotions and raises... not .jpg by HockeyPuck · · Score: 1

    I work for a large fortune 500 company and i was recently told by an org that if I did x, y and z I could then put a 'badge of honor' in my directory profile. So basically I could link to some .jpg that says "I'm a super contributor". Now my company already has the ability to reward people on the spot for a job well done. It's a token cash award and any manager can give them out (a couple hundred dollars).

    I might as well walk around with ribbons on my chest for "blogger of the month, webserver team!"

  80. A Good Read On the Subject by hduff · · Score: 1

    "Punished By Rewards" by Alfie Kohn

    Executive summary: Such programs are generally detrimental and stifle creativity

    --
    "I believe in Karma. That means I can do bad things to people all day long and I assume they deserve it." : Dogbert
  81. Badges = Money by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The only badge I'm interested in is whether your gonna give me more money or not, if you don't I'm not interesting in how many golden stars you as an employer are gonna give employee's unless it means sacking. If i do my job, I want to to be paid for it, if i do more then I'm expected too I "expect" to be paid for the extra, if not, well fuck the extra, find someone else to do it.

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  85. no by Bobtree · · Score: 1

    Adding a bunch of arbitrary metrics on top of a game makes it worse, not better. It motivates people to do something they used to like like until they really hate it or they "complete" the task list, and completionism is basically OCD. Non-game activities aren't better subjects for being gamed. Why bother?

    If you want a better job done, pay for better help. Don't pretend it's something it isn't.

    People are motivated by things that interest and engage and matter to them, and also by money. Gamification, essentially a Skinner box, is none of these.

  86. Failure compounded by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Perhaps this pandering is the real problem.

    Why should two people, who are in different situations, be judged the same just because you want to handle an external situation? If my kids are a B then I expect to see a B, if a D, I want to see a D, if A, then I want to see the A. I, as a parent, can decide if a C is good enough or do I want to push my kid for a higher grade. But just because I can't feed my kid, or it takes effort just to get them to school, doesn't mean my kid deserves an A for effort!

    Parents are having so much hot air blown up their asses they can't make logical decisions to help anymore, and/or don't believe their kids need help since little Johnny is doing so well. And on the flip side, the reason little Johnny is doing well is because Little Smart Sara is always picked to be his "team" partner for all their assignments (that then she does all the work) and gets a B they both get to share.

    Little Johnny's parents think Little Johnny is doing great (afterall, they only got D's and B's are so much better); Little Sara feels screwed over and figures she's stupid since she can't quite get that A and gives up; or (the far worse case) realizes, hey, no matter how much work I do I can't get rewarded so might as well do the minimum and still get that B....

    Then real life hits and they both realize that B is good for nothing and that the workplace won't care about your excuses (for Little Johnny) or for your laziness (for Little Sara) and then what? Two more for unemployment/welfare or taking the easy way out whenever they can, blaming everything and everyone else for their problems since that worked for the first 18 years of their lives? Basically, the only way for a student to win in this scenario is for the parents to pick a "good" school where the "stupidest" student is still above average.... To me, this means Private Schools; so basically, we are returning to Education for the Rich; with a bone tossed in for regular parents being "Free Babysitting"...

    So, who is winning with this BS?

  87. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

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  88. It depends on what you're motivating people to do by GWBasic · · Score: 1

    It really depends on what you're motivating people to do, and who your employees are. If you have employees where you need to trust their judgement on what is a good use of their time; things like leaderboards can backfire when the best employees decide that the metric is for things like TPS reports.

  89. Cliques by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    In a large corporation the reward system is very good at identifying who is in what clique, especially when employees are able to give out small piecemeal rewards to each other.

  90. Are we motivating or measuring? by Dr+Black+Adder · · Score: 1

    Gamification requires an objective. If it is to measure employee output, they will smell it. In reality some workers will never have the capacity of others, and you will make it publicly known, that's some bad karma heading your way. If we gamify employee efforts not the results then all can achieve highly if they put effort in, and you will get a very good measure of employee dedication. Another side effect will be employees enjoying work!

  91. Reward for doing your job? It's called a paycheck. by illumnatLA · · Score: 1

    Really... just how much more are we going to infantilize our society? Does mummy & dada need to make sure their sweet wittle muffin gets their gold stars for doing WHAT THEY'RE BEING PAID TO DO?

    --
    Web hosting that doesn't suck!Dreamhost
  92. There's no magic bullet by wordjuggler · · Score: 1

    At the risk of sounding naïve, I've found the key to getting the best performance out of staff is treating them like human beings, being honest to them and actually giving a damn about what's going on in their lives. Does that always work? No, of course not. You'll occasionally strike someone whose performance in real life doesn't measure up to their potential, as indicated by their qualifications. But anyone who thinks there's some magic way to make every staff member work to the best of their ability all the time – whether it be game mechanics or something else – is dreaming.

  93. Capitalism/Life Is Gamification by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The grades you get in university are a prize for doing well on tests and projects. The good job you get is a prize for the skills you've learned, the experience you've acquired and the network of business acquaintances you've developed. The money you earn is a prize for the work you do. Bonuses and raises are a prize for better work and loyalty. Retirement is your prize for have worked all your life, hopefully, to the benefit of society. Death is the end of the game be it the conclusion of your story or an early game-over.