Slashdot Mirror
Ask Slashdot: Recommendations For a Laptop With a Keypad That Doesn't Suck
PhunkySchtuff writes "I'm seeking the collective's recommendations on a laptop with a numeric keypad that doesn't suck. For practicality reasons, an external USB keypad is less convenient than a built-in one. A keypad is required for entry of lots of numbers, and using the alpha keys with the Fn key to turn them into a keypad is not acceptable. Looking at the larger manufacturers, it seems that none of their business grade laptops (e.g. Lenovo's T-Series or similar quality levels) have numeric keypads. Looking at their laptops that do have keypads, invariably they are cheap, plastic and flimsy. Looking at Lenovo's offering with a Keypad, whilst it's a 15" screen, the vertical resolution is just 768 pixels, and the build quality of it leaves a lot to be desired. I need to find something that is built to the quality of a 'real' ThinkPad, or even a MacBook Pro, but has a full-sized keyboard with a numeric keypad and there doesn't seem to be anything like that on the market at the moment. This is a mystery to me as to why it would be the case as I'd imagine it's business users who need to use a keypad more than the average user, yet it is the consumer grade laptops that have keypads."
Clevo's laptops are awesome. They're pricey, but well. I bought mine an year ago and it has been just awesome. Performance is better than you get out of your usual desktop, in games too. Cost 3000 euros, but totally worth it. It also has good numpad, which is essential.
P775d-s4360. bought one several months ago. key pad and keyboard rocks. Kinda shitty support however.
I have ordered a bunch of Precision M4600s for my users and they seem to like the keypad. Dell eliminated the speaker grills from on either side of the keyboard that were on the Precision M4500 and used the extra space for the keypad. The resolution is 1920 x 1080 unfortunately instead of 1920 x 1200 that was on the previous models. Screen is 15.4".
Slightly offtopic, but I like my keyboard centered. I don't get it how someone can use a laptop keyboard with numeric keypad.
So you'll have to lug an extra pound or so. Big deal.
Let's call it what it is, Anti-Social Media.
Most of them come in Alienware-like shells and are massive. I did not spend much time finding the perfect link for you, but this is what I have in mind.
One does not need to bundle the i7 and the GTX 570 either, so breaking bank ain't exactly a requirement, although they are pricey.
what about an HP Probook? You don't want to play games though
i got a dell studio 17" a couple years ago...has essentially a smaller full sized keyboard, keypad and all, which is why i chose it in the first place. but as a whole its a heavy beast, like a beached whale. and if it only were anything but a dell (i got a union discount on it through their store, ill never make that mistake again)
the model says its a "PP31L"
The above comment was by me. I meant to provide this link: http://www.theverge.com/2012/3/7/2851200/msi-gt-60-gt-70-gaming-laptop-launch-release-date-price-pictures
I would recommend the MSI gaming ones or even a custom look alike. Personally, I would go custom, obviously.
I'm using some kind of generic HP 17" with a full keypad right now. Like other commenters have said, I think that most 17" laptops have full keypads.
I don't respond to AC's.
My old Asus M50 had a "full" keypad - the only difference is that the +-*/. keys are arranged slightly differently than is standard. My new G55 is likewise supposed to have one (although I have to advise against ordering one of those right now - there seems to be some sort of supply issue, as I've been waiting on mine for weeks now).
Those are both "gaming" laptops (and both 15" models, not 17"), probably not something your boss will approve, but still, check out their "business" laptops - they might have full keypads.
Just buy a USB number pad and call it a day. They cost $30 for wireless ones, i have one i used forever as a macro keypad for WoW rather then drop $100+ on the G15 keyboard.
Good-bye
As others are saying - have to go with a 17 inch device. I'm using a Sony Vaio (yeah I know - evil - but the price was right) and it is fairly solid. You will have to carry around an extra pound or two, but the trade off is good.
For practicality reasons, an external USB keypad is less convenient than a built-in one..
from the summary.
GENERATION 24: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social exper
I own two Toshiba laptops and purchased them specifically because of their number pads.
Latitude E6520 is a 15.6" notebook with a full keyboard + number pad. 3 year warranty, well built, etc. Not at thin as an MBP, but it has all the options if you want them. Back-lit keyboard, 3G, second internal hard drive, et al. Hundreds to be saved if you buy on the Dell Outlet. I don't work for Dell, just a happy owner of the older E6500. The E6520 I think just has four screws and all the internals of the laptop are made bare for the upgrading. It's sweet. Might want to wait a little, as I think the whole line will be refreshed soon with Ivy Bridge.
Hi,
I got myself this laptop more than a year ago, and it is one of the most comfortable ones I have ever used ( I have had many VAIO's, HP's LG's...)
It features a full keyboard, a decent graphics card, and a dual processor for a more than acceptable price. It runs cool and quiet and I have absolutely no regrets which contrasts with my Vaio laptop (supposedly much higher quality) which screen started showing up random lines after 2 years of use, and very obvious signs of wear off.
Definitely an option you should consider :) , I cannot be happier with it!!
Cheers
Check out gaming laptops. They tend to be high quality and have more options than business models.
My Dell l702x has a wonderful backlit keypad. I use it daily with no problems. It's also built like a tank, has a 1080p screen, and has a decent audio system.
I used to buy Workstation-class laptops but the options in that market are not very good. After getting a high-power gaming laptop, I'm never going back.
I recently bought a Fujitsu Lifebook E751. It has a numeric keypad. The keyboard looks flimsy but doesn't feel that way.
Note: the page on fujitsu.com has a photo of some other model. There may be differences in the various sub-models.
I've a M6500. Pricy but very solid and a good keyboard for a laptop.
The reason keypads aren't or real ThinkPads is that by including the extra 4 columns of keys, the whole keyboard and TrackPoint (or trackpad, if you're that sort of person) has to be shifted left. This means that you end up either sitting in middle relative to the screen with the hands positioned awkwardly, or having to look at the screen at an angle.
I have a T520 and while I was initially upset that it has huge speaker grilles on both sides, I actually came to appreciate this decision, though admittedly it would suck if I had to punch in numbers into a spreadsheet all day. Just get a ThinkPad and this baby
No, the universe is not out to get you, you simply can't fit a full keypad on a 15" or smaller laptop keyboard without compromising some other aspect of the keyboard, which would be more detrimental to business users.
I don't know where you come from, but no, "business use" rarely comprises of data entry so it is not likely any major resources are being allocated for solving the "problem" you describe.
I sort of feel you because I use the numpad a lot, but I don''t think that is the only thing missing of a laptop keyboard, so when I need to do serious work I have to have with me a full regular (and ergonomic in my case) keyboard since I don't think hardware should be slowing me down. Therefore, if you only need a numpad I suggest you get an external one which is less convenient than a fictional 15" laptop with an amazing fold-out full keyboard, but not much more inconvenient than the bulkier 17" laptops which have a numpad (probably not as good as an external) and could be an alternative for you.
Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent. Polar Scope Align for iOS
Stay away from a 15" laptop with a keypad. Those tend to put certain keys in odd places, which becomes annoying very very quickly. +/- keys become the wrong size in the wrong place, and the 0 key is especially screwed up.
So, the extra pound is worth it.
Thinkpad only laptops with decent keyboards.
You will need something in the W700 series probably (And it looks like they don't even sell them anymore).
(There is ones with stuff like wacom tablets / second screens and stuff but just the basic model should be ok).
Cannot think of anything else bothering with unless there is a suitable semi rugged (or business rugged) Toughbook.
I have a HP 8710w and it is absolute shite don't get one under any circumstances. (Looks like it should tick all the boxes but it is flimsy as hell - 1920x1200 screen and trackpoint and full keyboard were what I wanted). Fortunately I wasn't paying but I want rid of it as soon as I can.
(I am already on the 3rd keyboard which are £50 each the dvd drive tray snapped off - keyboards don't count under warranty). For something costing over £2000 it is diabolical.
Just holding on Fn whilst you use the numeric keypad on a normal Thinkpad would be vastly preferable to using any other laptop keyboard design as far as I am concerned.
It wasn't something I even considered when purchasing my current laptop, but I've since fallen in love with the keyboard (including keypad) on my Latitude E5520. Great action, no extraneous buttons, and very comfortable layout & size.
Whatever you chose, I'd recommend a close review of the layout (and trying the action, if you can get your hands on a demo) to make sure it's not too weird. Some manufacturers make some VERY interesting adjustments to fit keyboards onto their laptops. I purchased a standalone keyboard a couple of years back that was dirt-cheap and had great action, but the home-end-insert-delete block was rotated (arranged vertically) and it somehow became a major headache.
I'd say my HP EliteBook 8540p has a good keypad.
>"Looking at the larger manufacturers, it seems that none of their business grade laptops (e.g. Lenovo's T-Series or similar quality levels) have numeric keypads"
That's because putting a keypad on a "laptop" turns it into a huge luggable... something not even suitable for "lap" use. The trend has been toward smaller, lighter, and more portable devices.
I understand what you want, and I love having a REAL numeric keypad. But I also just use a desktop with a full keyboard when I plan to be number crunching, or you can add an external keypad to a reasonably sized and portable laptop.
I also love having a real mouse. Touchpads cut my productivity by at least half. Trackpoints are 100% useless. So even on a "laptop", I am going to use a real mouse; and that takes space.... not much different than an external keypad.
Dell Precision series has a 15" laptop with a numpad. Screen resolution goes up to 1920x1080, discrete graphics card.
I have a Dell Precision M4600 with a Nvidia graphics card, 1920x1080 screen and it has a numpad and both a trackpoint and touchpad.
The current line of 15.6" elitebooks has a numpad. The keyboard is of the same quality as the one on Apple MacBooks, i.e. it's not great. The previous EliteBook models had a better keyboard. A backlit keyboard is also available.
I've got the 17" (8760w) model and I'm loving it. Entirely metal construction, Full HD, Two HDDs (you can also replace the optical drive with another), reasonable dedicated graphics and a good 3-year warranty, all for less than €1500 without included windows.
May I recommend the Asus G53SX-NH71.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834230141&Tpk=asus%20g53
As a das keyboard fan I find the keyboard on the G53 to be quite nice for a laptop keyboard. Its not mechanical of course but it is still nice enough to type on for prolonged periods of time. Also the number pad is easy to use for someone who is used to a full sized desktop keyboard as all of the keys are in the same place. The entire keyboard has toggleable back lighting which is nice if you are in a dark area.
New Egg has a very good advanced search feature
Just input your screen size.
As for quality, Asus, and Toshiba make very good laptops
For example, toshiba Qosmio is great VFM, but screen is 1600x900, I think you want atleast full HD.
In that case you can get Asus for arond 900$
Again decent build quality.
My Aurora : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o91ZsGwJYyg
FB : https://www.facebook.com/TanveersPhotography
Does anyone have a suggestion for a laptop with deep key press? Most laptops and even a lot of desktops (apple) have very little key motion.
I know the Tandy Model 100 was pretty good, but that is a little dated technology-wise.
Check out the Dell Latitude E6520 - I'm typing on one right now. It's a business class, sturdy 15.6" laptop with a full keypad. So it's a bit bigger than your usual 15" laptop, but not by much. You get your choice of dual or quad core processor, three different resolutions (1280x800, 1600x900, or 1900x1080), and it comes standard with 3 years of support. Take a look at it here:
http://www.dell.com/us/enterprise/p/latitude-e6520/pd
By the way, it fits perfect in the Booq Cobra Slim case, even with the extended battery:
http://booq.com/us/briefs/CSL-BLK
15" 1080p with a keypad
On top of that a friend of mine went through a quest for a "proper" external keypad a few years back.
He went through a half dozen external keypads, and discovered that they all simply emulate the 0-9 keys at the top of the keyboard (same charcode value, but different keycode value).
That's fine if all you want to do is numeric entry into a spreadsheet. But if the software you are using is expecting input from the keypad specifically, or is using the keypad as a kind of cursor control in menus, etc., it will break things.
I don't recall why this was a problem for my friend, but it may have been for use with some kind of poorly coded legacy software (he worked with animal rescues at the time, they're not known for being well funded).
I assume that the niche was small enough that even though there were a bunch of products on the market, they were probably all relying on a logic chip from a single manufacturer, though we never tore them down to verify this.
Touch everywhere, even when inappropriate.
I've owned a Sony Viao S Series PCG-41412L VPCSE13FX laptop since February. It has a numeric keyboard and a 15.5 in., 1920x1080 screen, 4 GB DDR3, 640 GB storage, Intel core i5 2430M processor, weighs 4.4 lbs. It's 1 in thick. I've had no problems with the keyboard; the keys are illuminated and have a nice feel. It's the best laptop I've owned, so far. Google VPCSE13FX to find out more.
I have had an hp dv7-1000 for five years and will buy another soon. The case and screen are sturdy and the mouse pad doesn't suck. I love the big screen and will take the size trade off vs 15.4, but that is a preference. Other hp series I have seen or ordered for others have not been nearly as nice as the dv7. $750 when I got mine and they are still priced similarly
They both offer num pads on several models. Hp 8590p is a good machine as long as the motherboard survives its first week. The dell latitude series also offers a number pad.
I have a Sony Vaio 15 inch, SE series. 1080p screen (and really amazing at that), with a chiclet keyboard with numeric keypad. i7, 6Gb RAM, 640Gb disk. It cost about 1500eur. I am really happy with it, but PLEASE try the keyboard first because some people I've talked to seem to think it's a bit "loose" for their tastes. Don't care much about Sony being "evil" or whatever. I like their laptops.
Mother is the best bet and don't let Satan draw you too fast.
The HP Elitebooks are rock solid high-end laptops. The workstation elitebooks http://shopping1.hp.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/WFS/WW-USSMBPublicStore-Site/en_US/-/USD/ViewStandardCatalog-Browse?CatalogCategoryID=vfoQ7EN5XpgAAAEuPyFCFgH7 include numeric keypads.
"For practical reasons, I'm trying to run my computer off a small fire, which boils water which turns a paddlewheel, which dumps more water into a bucket on a pully which turns a magneto, and I'm not getting a stable waveform. How can I make this work?"
"Just plug it into the wall outlet."
"Read TFS!"
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
I have an HP 8560p. It has a 15.4" 1600 x 900 screen and numeric keypad. They keyboard is the chiclet style which I'm still getting used to but the build quality seems to be pretty sturdy.
As an added bonus, it has a 9pin serial port.
part of the difficulty is that so many business users I see use a docking station. Which means they have a full-size USB keyboard that they work with at the office. While not one of them, myself, I suspect that most don't need to do much numeric data entry when not at their office...
I work with a lot of different laptop brands - I do convention and trade show computer support, among other things - and a lot of the "business class" machines out there are pretty weak in the specs department - no better (and often worse) than a good-quality "consumer" machine. Construction and case quality is often worse for the "business" machines.
I use a Toshiba Satellite A665 (a couple of years old). It's a 15.6" consumer-class machine, it has a full keyboard, a "real" graphics chip, and an i7 processor. I've only seen a few "business" machines actually in use in the last couple of years that come close in performance or specs. It's handled a lot of travel, been used for everything up to and including running high-res videos and animations on huge screens, and never even hiccuped. It also cost less than $900 when I got it. Machines with better specs are going for under $800 now.
Don't lock yourself into the "business" category - it's often just a way to get a few hundred bucks more out of a category-blinded MIS purchasing department.
I use this: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16823109189 The keyboard and keypad are seen as separate bluetooth devices and can work independently of each other. I'd recommend it.
For example, this1080p 15.6" model. I had never heard of them, but a friend ordered one recently and, wow, I was really impressed with the build quality. They keyboard itself is excellent and has a feel similar to mechanical switches. To top it off, the prices are really competitive. They're pitched as "gaming notebooks," but don't let that stop you. I'd use these for business in a heartbeat and, who knows, you might get some gaming in on the side.
The Sony F series gets my vote. It has a nice full keyboard. A bit on the heavy side but the awesome hardware is well worth it in my opinion.
The Toshiba Satellite Pro is fairly a fairly reasonable device and has a full sized keypad. 1600x900, 4gb ram, and an intel i3. The keyboard is kinda flat and a little obnoxious but it's definitely something you can get used to.
external bluetooth or usb numeric keypad
I'm assuming the OP's problem with a USB keypad is that it requires a cable or dongle. A bluetooth keypad does not.
I have a couple of MS bluetooth keypads that I use with my X-series Thinkpads. These bluetooth keypads are very thin & light, work for many months on a single AAA, and just simply work every time I pull them out. Personally I think it's the best product ever sold by MS.
One huge benefit of a wireless external keypad is that you can place it in the most ergonomic position for your data-entry arm. Or remote-control arm. Or whatever task you're using it for.
With a built-in keypad, you either have a behemoth of a foldable computer (not really a laptop), or a squashed set of keys (not full size) or both.
Excellent post. I want to thank you for this informative read,
I really appreciate sharing this great post. Keep up your work.
DC 190
System76 makes ubuntu laptops. Their larger model, the Pangolin Performance has a more than adequate numerical keypad. You can dual boot windows if you feel you must. They also have really great customer service. Being that they are such a small shop, you can get a real human on the phone instantly who is willing to help you out for free. I have had a really good experience with them.
https://www.system76.com/laptops/model/panp9
Great keyboard and keypad.
A quick search on Google reveals a very large number of USB numeric keypads which have more than just 9 keys. If I were going to buy one today, I'd probably get one of these: http://www.logitech.com/en-ca/keyboards/keyboard/devices/wireless-number-pad-n305
That being said, I picked up a USB numeric keypad for my laptop about 10 years ago, and it hasn't caused me any problems. I don't use it any more because I've switched to ultraportable laptops and it's literally half the size of my laptop, but it still works.
And the soon to be available 8x70.
Quite a premium? Too true. 2500+GBP for one with 32Gb of Ram and a Single 750Gb HDD.
Getting on for twice the cost of my MSI GTX780 with 16Gb and twin 750Gb HDD's. I added another 16Gb for 80GBP.
The HP Elitbook 64xx series have just about the worst keyboard I have ever encountered in 40years in the IT biz. The Return/enter key is frigging smaller than the Left Shift. The Home key is in the wrong place. etc etc etc etc.
Sadly my current employer is an HP only shop so all my team carry usb keyboards with us when we are on the road (us to 2 weeks at a time). The 768 vertical resolution is also frigging useless in S/W Dev. Two of my guys have expensed a coiple of 24in monitors on their current trip to Bodrum. The crappy vertical resolutions has at last been recognised by our managment. We are all getting 8x70's in July with wheeled cases.
If I had a choice, I'd certainly not buy HP kit. Even Dell stuff is better than this load of shite.
A $10 Logitech will have a proper keymap. As will most $10 keyboards. How about you go to the store and look at them?
...and, bonus, not one, but two floppy drives!
http://oldcomputers.net/ibm5155.html
Or rather, the competition has advanced while Lenovo rests.
I have a T520 and my wife has a Macbook Pro. The Macbook is a far better piece of hardware. Even if you only want to run Windows, I'd consider buying an Apple laptop and reformatting it with Windows.
The one thing I like about the Thinkpad (and the reason I picked it) is the 1080p matte screen. Everything else is mediocre at best. They are pretty cheap though, so maybe it's a case of getting what you pay for.
I have an HP Elitebook 8540w. It has a full-size keyboard + numpad and works great.
It's a business-class laptop with a 15.6" screen, 1920 x 1080 resolution available, decent battery (75 Wh standard), option for an extra detachable extension battery (the BB09 adds an additional 100 Wh), keyboard "feel" reminds me of my IBM model M (although shorter travel), and it has a full numeric keypad.
Not that I really recommend it, but I occasionally use one of these:
Product Name: HP EliteBook 8560p
It has a normal sized numberpad. However it has ridiculously undersized arrow keys.. like 1/8th the size of a normal key.. very difficult to even use them.
Another annoying thing is they have the audio jacks on the right side near the front of the laptop, so if you're using an external mouse, headphone jack/cord bleeds into the area the mouse would be used.
It does have a fullsized keyboard, nice screen, plenty of power and I've not had any real problems with - but it's essentially a desktop, I never lug it around (bit of a weighty beasty).
hp 8560w. It's a beast though.
I bought a HP Pavilion dv6 15.4" widescreen laptop about a year ago. It has a full sized keyboard with numpad, 1080p screen, core i5, 6gb ram... The build quality is amazing; I don't think anyone makes a higher quality laptop than this. You should be able to pick one up for less $1000.
Think globally but act within local variable scope.
Sorry, I can't answer your question, but for anyone who's considering switching from a desktop to a laptop, and who is a touch typist, don't let the "laptop keyboards" scare you.
I too was initially fearful that the cheap "chiclet" style keyboards wouldn't let me type as fast. But, actually, you can type even faster.
Your fingers don't have so far to go, and you get more keypresses into a given amount of time, and also your fingers work less. If you can, also buy a full-sized USB chiclet keyboard. I think HP makes one.
I'm not a lawyer, but I play one on the Internet. Blog
They ALL have more than just 9 keys. You misunderstood what I was saying.
0-9 is ten keys. And yes, they all had + - Enter / * etc.
Touch everywhere, even when inappropriate.
It's a lot harder to find 15" laptops WITHOUT a number pad. And the touchpad is always off center. It's annoying. I don't need a numpad, and would like to not have to be stuck with one.
My 15.6 inch Samsung series 7, has a numeric keypad (happily centered) that works just fine and it has that size screen shoved into the dimensions usually associated with a14 inch screen. i used to work at a photo lab that require near constant numeric input, and the lack of a number pad on laptops of a reasonably portable size used to drive me insane.
Got this one myself last December, and I use the numeric keypad on it quite a bit - it's comfortable and easy to use.
I'm really happy with it.
Insanity is a gradual process; don't rush it.
What I've found is that having the keypad on the right shoves the main keyboard off-center when I'm working on the laptop. If I have the screen centered, the keyboard's off-center to my left and not comfortable. If I center the keyboard, the laptop's shoved off to the right and doesn't feel comfortable when sitting at it. For maximum comfort I want the main keyboard centered under the screen, and that means leaving off the separate keypad.
I also don't use the keypad much for business use. It's mostly the main keyboard and the mouse/trackpad. The keypad's primarily used for gaming, which isn't something I'm going to do a lot of on a business laptop. If I'm using the keyboard I'm primarily entering text. If I'm entering numbers I'm rarely doing the kind of intensive entry I'd want a ten-key keypad for.
So overall I end up wanting the separate keypad primarily for consumer-oriented stuff like games, not business use. And since I don't game on my laptops, I'm usually looking for one without a separate keypad.
Most of the laptops with numeric keypads I have seen are marketed for doing stuff like CAD / 3d studio max etc
They have quadro's / 1920x1200 17" screens and are anything but consumer laptops. (Still too flimsy for my liking though too)
I just bought an Alienware laptop from dell and the primary reason I bought the M17 vs the M14 was the presence of a 10 key keypad on the keyboard.
plus whatever bluetooth keyboard you want.
I've been using an HP dv7 17" for a few years. The keypad is seperate keys, not emulated at buttons 1-0 above the Q row. Only downside to this particular model is that the CPU's heat sink goes directly under the left wrist rest for the keyboard. Long periods at high temps results in a very sore wrist.
For work, I've been given a Dell Latitude e6520. It's not a gaming laptop, per se, but I was tickled to discover a full size numpad on the beast.
Can I express how happy I am about being able to play RogueLike games with my work laptop while on travel (although sometimes the vi keys are more fun)?
Check it out:
http://www.dell.com/us/enterprise/p/latitude-e6520/pd
external bluetooth or usb numeric keypad
I'm assuming the OP's problem with a USB keypad is that it requires a cable or dongle.
Or else he doesn't like a keypad that slides around everywhere, since the portable ones weigh less than a mouse's sneeze. That's why I stopped using mine, it was just as much of a hassle as using the Fn keypad.
My sister opened a computer store in Hawaii. She sells C shells by the seashore.
Or equivalent. It's low cost, and probably an oudated model, but the design has been plenty solid over the last 18 months.
Were that I say, pancakes?
I got it not knowing it had a number pad. I don't know why it has one or on what basis Dell chooses to put it on some and not others. The keyboard and trackpad being shifted off center is bothersome.
It makes me curious what the dimensions of Dell's other 15in laptops are that don't include the number pad. Is the screen smaller? Is the keyboard larger? In the future I'm going to avoid buying the Inspiron line. You never know what you're gonna get.
There was a nice, slide-out keypad option for IBM Ultrabay laptops. I'm not sure if you can get it for the newer versions of Ultrabay, but one could maybe modify an old one to work with the new Ultrabay standard.
Picture here:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v65/dr_st/A31p-X32/IMG_0269-1.jpg
Well I think the extra clumsy ness of an external numeric pad, isn't really that huge. I use to bring an external keyboard around with my laptop all the time without much issues. The Apple Keyboards are actually nice to type on and they are very thin so they can fit in your bag. The external numeric pads I have seen seem to fit well in a laptop case as well. I think this author is posting because he really wants to keep his desktop but his boss is pushing a laptop. So he is trying to confirm that he cannot do his job without the desktop.
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
Or else he doesn't like a keypad that slides around everywhere, since the portable ones weigh less than a mouse's sneeze
Perhaps.
I've never had that problem with the MS keypads that I use.
If I did, I'd just glue a silicone sticky-pad to the back of the keypad. Only adds a few grams. Problem solved.
I will +1 the ASUS suggestion, I have an ASUS G73 gaming rig and the chiclet keyboard is GREAT. I love that they didn't double-up on the home/end/page keys from a terminal coding standpoint. Function key is used as it should be: to fiddle with keyboard lights, wi-fi on/off, screen brightness, disable trackpad, and audio settings. And yes, it's a 17.3 incher built for gaming.
Also props to the peeps that say don't go 'business class' machines. There is NOTHING in a business machine that you cannot get with a consumer-grade laptop at least 200 bucks cheaper. The only reason you would ever buy business class is in bulk (50+ units) WITH a discounted support pack (so your business does not have to fuck around with broken laptops, you can just fast-track an RMA). In general even then you're paying fuck-me-in-the-arse prices from a vendor who'd be glad to take a bigger chomp of your budget.
I feel your pain - keyboards and sucky resolutions.
We all think to pick RAM and CPU and HDD storage, but I learned the hard way to be selective about other parts of a laptop. Now I have a check list and #1 and #2 on it are:
* Keyboard
* 1080p or better resolution
From there, I go with the CPU, RAM, discrete GPU, HDD, USB3, SDHC slot, eSATA, Firewire, GigE networking and wifi-N networking.
I visited a few big box stores to find the keyboards with the right "feel" - chiclet keyboards are out. Sony, Gateway, HP are out. Oddly, the Asus and Dells weren't bad at all. I was able to find a Dell 1558 in 2010 with 1080p for $750 that I still love. It is the best laptop I've ever owned. OTOH, it doesn't have a numeric keypad ...
99% of the time, I plug that Dell into a KVM and use an IBM 101M keyboard, wired mouse and dual monitors. Yes, the laptop supports dual 24" monitors thanks to the ATI GPU. The GPU sucks, but it is better than any built-in Intel crap and does drive 1200p and 1080p on the external monitors without any flicker. The built-in screen is also 1080p, so I don't feel like I'm missing 20% of the screen (200px).
In 2004, I had a 1440p laptop. I miss it. Wide screen sucks for productivity, but makes screens/monitors cheaper since all the TVs around the world use them too. I don't watch movies on my laptops. That's what a TV is for.
"For practical reasons, I'm trying to run my computer off a small fire, which boils water which turns a paddlewheel, which dumps more water into a bucket on a pully which turns a magneto, and I'm not getting a stable waveform. How can I make this work?"
"Just plug it into the wall outlet."
"Read TFS!"
Honestly. I know it's difficult to adjust, but after you get used to using letters for movement, you'll never play NetHack any other way.
I feel ya brother. I use a XPS model P09E at work with a 17" screen and it has a full size numpad, which was one of the reasons I got this laptop.
The only downside is it is missing the "proper" arrangement of the Ins/Home/PgUp/Del... etc. the 6 navigation keys. I use these a whole lot and the fact that most laptop keyboards have them spread all over the place drives me nuts.
Good luck.
I'm assuming the OP's problem with a USB keypad is that it requires a cable or dongle.
Me, I just assume he doesn't want to carry around an external keypad.
This is the 17" beast (or actually, the previous generation -- the M6600 is current). I don't particularly like the keyboard (my old Inspiron 9400 had a better one), but it's better than most laptops and it does have a keypad. It also has oodles of expansion capability -- fingerprint reader, smartcard reader, 32 GB RAM, 2 2.5" disks, mSATA (so you can have 3 disks!), USB 3. I bought mine on eBay (had it about 6 months so far), but you can probably still get refurbs from Dell.
The M6600 has faster processor options (Sandy Bridge vs. Nehalem), but just like everything else, an inferior screen. Since I do a lot of photo work on it, it's a substantial difference. Thus far I only have 8GB and 2 rotating disks, but at some point I'm going to add another 8 or 16 GB (it has 4 slots) and probably an mSATA for root/home/swap.
The Precisions are really mobile workstations. The M6500 is a big, heavy machine, about 8 lb. But it's actually dimensionally a bit smaller than my old 9400, and it easily fits a standard 17" laptop bag. The Alienware M17x has similar specs, but the appearance is very different (the Alienware looks like a gaming machine; the Precision has a very basic unadorned appearance, with just a small Dell logo on the lid).
This comes to mind: http://mobile.slashdot.org/story/09/02/28/223238/testing-lenovos-thinkpad-w700ds-dual-screen-notebook. Maybe you can find one used?
I'm using a Toshiba Satellite L355-S7834 laptop with a 17-inch screen, full size 104 key US keyboard with separate 10-key numeric keypad that does not need function keys to use. Just press the regular NUM-LOCK button and type all the numbers you want with one hand or even one finger.
9/11 Eyewitnesses to Explosive WTC Demolition 1 of 2
A little spongy, but very good finger feel. You might prefer the NEC version, as the keycaps are more rounded. They've both made by Kyocera.
Chiclet style but ultrathin and powerful 15"
http://www.pcmag.com/slideshow_viewer/0,3253,l%253D295660%2526a%253D295655%2526po%253D4,00.asp?p=n
[RIAA] says its concern is artists. That's true, in just the sense that a cattle rancher is concerned about its cattle.
This Dell Studio 17 I've been using for the past few years is probably the best laptop I've ever owned. It has a nice keypad as well.
I hate to start a post like this implying that i know better than others but i am in the industry. This laptop has very good specs for price and is build like a tank.
Samsung NP200A5B-A03ZA
It has won multiple awards
It's slim, it's display is bright, it's durable and have "A high quality, full-size, island-type keyboard makes typing easier, so get more done and waste less time correcting errors. Its ergonomic, premium-style design features isolated keys with optimised spacing for maximum comfort. Each key has also been extensively tested for durability and reliability 10 million times (equal to 6 years of writing)."
I got mine about 2 weeks ago, and wow! Consumer Reports rates it higher than the equivalent mac which is $800 more. Nice BACKLIT keyboard with numeric pad. 15.6 in, 1280 x 900 display, quad core i7 2675qm, 8g RAM, 1Tb hd + 8gb ssd cache disk, large multi-touchpad, dual display hardware, built-in Intel for low power and Nvidia discrete w/512M (up to 2Gb) dedicated RAM for performance, and I get a good 7-10 hours battery life on a charge with average use. Thin, about 5lbs, $1000. So far, no problems.
My 17" Toshiba has a full-featured keypad alongside the keyboard. It includes the math keys as well.
If you're looking at the Toshiba Qosmio, stop. It is a great, nice laptop.. but it is bulky and heavy. It does have a dedicated numeric keypad but as you noticed -- it's very plastic-y feeling and definitely wouldn't hold up to any amount of daily usage..
So yeah, heads up -- avoid the Qosmio line!
If Asus still is producing K53TA.. that is a insane laptop! Dual gaphics, quad core fusion, a fricken workhorse to say the least. Keyboard/keypad are excellent....can't go wrong with Asus. I believe they offer a larger screen version as well.
This is for my accountant to use Excel and QuickBooks on. She needs a keypad, it's as simple as that. I want to get her a laptop that's not going to fall apart in a couple of weeks. She doesn't need a quad-core i7, 8GB RAM and a 2GB graphics card. She does need a decent sized screen (in particular vertical resolution is very important for Excel) and she does use the laptop on the move all the time, so not having a plug-in USB keypad (which I'll admit was my first response to her requirements) is important as there will often be nowhere for her to place it.
Specialist Mac support for creative pros, Melbourne
This is for my accountant to use Excel and QuickBooks on. She needs a keypad built in to the laptop, it's as simple as that. I want to get her a laptop that's not going to fall apart in a couple of weeks. She doesn't need a quad-core i7, 8GB RAM and a 2GB graphics card. She does need a decent sized screen (in particular vertical resolution is very important for Excel) and she does use the laptop on the move all the time, so not having a plug-in USB keypad (which I'll admit was my first response to her requirements) is important as there will often be nowhere for her to place it.
Specialist Mac support for creative pros, Melbourne
This is for my accountant to use Excel and QuickBooks on. She needs a keypad built into the laptop, it's as simple as that. I want to get her a laptop that's not going to fall apart in a couple of weeks. She doesn't need a quad-core i7, 8GB RAM and a 2GB graphics card. She does need a decent sized screen (in particular vertical resolution is very important for Excel) and she does use the laptop on the move all the time, so not having a plug-in USB keypad (which I'll admit was my first response to her requirements) is important as there will often be nowhere for her to place it.
Specialist Mac support for creative pros, Melbourne
This is for my accountant to use Excel and QuickBooks on. She needs a keypad that is built into the laptop, it's as simple as that. I want to get her a laptop that's not going to fall apart in a couple of weeks. She doesn't need a quad-core i7, 8GB RAM and a 2GB graphics card. She does need a decent sized screen (in particular vertical resolution is very important for Excel) and she does use the laptop on the move all the time, so not having a plug-in USB keypad (which I'll admit was my first response to her requirements) is important as there will often be nowhere for her to place it.
Specialist Mac support for creative pros, Melbourne
My Dell M6600 has a numeric keypad and works great. Big screen, etc, etc. You'll pay more, of course....
Personally I think it's the best product ever sold by MS.
No, their best product is the Microsoft Trackball Optical.
I use mine since at least 7 years, and it's still working perfectly.
It's PS2/USB compatible, so it plugs on any kind of computer.
It's also easy to clean.
I cannot use a computer without it, because of my carpal tunnel syndrome.
Best trackball ever !
This is for my accountant to use Excel and QuickBooks on. She needs a keypad built in to the laptop, it's as simple as that. I want to get her a laptop that's not going to fall apart in a couple of weeks. She doesn't need a quad-core i7, 8GB RAM and a 2GB graphics card. She does need a decent sized screen (in particular vertical resolution is very important for Excel) and she does use the laptop on the move all the time, so not having a plug-in USB keypad (which I'll admit was my first response to her requirements) is important as there will often be nowhere for her to place it.
This is something which, sad to say it, the /. crowd will not be able to assist. Your best option is to take miss accountant to a computer shop like MLN in North Melbourne or Richmond with a plethora of laptops available, and have her try the keyboards on each of them. Since this is the most important factor, how she feels about each keypad is important, and getting her to try before you buy is vital, otherwise when she hates it after 3 hrs, it's your fault.
For what it's worth, two of the 3 Asus laptops I've used lately have had absolutely awful numeric keypads (and keyboards in general). But the third one has a great keyboard and numeric pad - it's one of the rare laptop keyboards that doesn't have the raised and separated keys in the Macbook style, which IMO only Apple gets right.
... wait, what?
Thank you for the info (and thanks also for the recommendations to shops in Melbourne).
Apple have nailed the chiclet keyboard, so much so that it's used for their desktop keyboards too... I suppose it's naive for me to assume that everyone else making a keyboard in a similar style will be as good...
Specialist Mac support for creative pros, Melbourne
I'm typing this on a Dell XPS 17" laptop that comes with a full keyboard, including a real numeric keypad. Is it Lenovo-quality? No. Does it work just fine? Yes.
Do note that the Dell XPS 17" laptop is large enough that my colleagues nicknamed mine the "schleptop" because it's quite a lot of work to schlep it everywhere.
Neil
I recently purchased a Samsung Series 7 (quad core i7, 1600x900 15.6" monitor, 6GB Ram, easily expandable to , 750GB hard drive) It has a separate keypad. Its a very, very nice machine. If you like the Macbook-style keys, its great. You can pick up a refurb unit for about $750-$800 dollars
The Elitebook 8560p I'm sitting at is a 15.4" with full keypad.
Google "hp elitebook 8560p" and the first hit should be it. I think they have half a dozen models with keypads.
The keyboard is reasonably decent and I love the oversized touchpad, but the lack of a middle button drives me batty. (Never realized how much I used it until I got this laptop!). Overall performance is fine and the price really wasn't bad.
Of course, I'm sure I missed something that will mean this will also "leave a lot to be desired."
This is a mystery to me as to why it would be the case as I'd imagine it's business users who need to use a keypad more than the average user, yet it is the consumer grade laptops that have keypads."
I think that consumer grade laptops have keypads because a fair amount of games use them (can be used as a joystick if you don't have one, etc.) but as to why business comps don't I can't answer that.
I have a Toshiba Satellite Pro L500D. It comes with a keypad and unlike vacuum cleaners, does not suck.... Mine is a couple of years old, but Toshiba still makes them with keypad and with all kind of CPUs
I have a Lenovo one that seems to do as what your friend needs (or needed).
http://support.lenovo.com/en_US/detail.page?LegacyDocID=MIGR-4JTRRF.
I acts just like the numeric keypad on a regular 101 keyboard, complete with Numlock that toggles the function of the buttons (sadly no status LED though). I verified with a key scan tool and pushing the buttons on the keypad register the exact same values as on a standard 101 PS/2 keyboard. Mine is several years old but they seem to be still available if you still need one. My guess is that the most of the ones with a proper Num lock key and both sets of legends printed on the keys would act properly.
I've got an HP DV6t sitting in front of me right now with a full keyboard and plenty of power and all. It cost me just a bit over a thousand for my quad-core model and the site lists them down to 630 USD for a dual-core model. It's 15.6 inches so it's smaller than your standard 17-inch but it's still got a full keypad and numpad. I'd certainly recommend it.
Those things are quite popular in France, where the top row numeric keys are usually mapped to the accented characters.
Presumably if they didn't work people wouldn't bother with them.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
A fullsize keyboard like my IBM 8932 is 18" wide. Now, there's room for some shrinkage of the keys and the gaps between them, but not much.
Now bear in mind that laptops don't waste space, i.e. the keyboard and screen are generally the same size. Fudge for the diagonal and the bezel and assume they cancel out, that still equates to at least a 16" screen.
And if she wants vertical resolution, it's even worse, because that implies a more square aspect ratio than a widescreen.
Several posters have mentioned machines that look pretty similar to the Alienware m7700. It was sold under various badges a few years back. I have one and it weighs 5 kilos, plus 1 for the power supply. Battery life? Think internal UPS.
tl;dr version: Ye cannae change the laws of physics, Jim!
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
I have a newer USB only version bought from a charity shop for less than a beer, looked pristine. I figured even if didn't work It'd be fun to dismantle.
Plugged it into my Linux machine when I was doing the install - it was the only spare pointing device I could lay hands on - & it's still there now. Couldn't get the hang of using it for office tasks - found it hard to hold the button down when dragging. Then I realized that I was having to hold the unit in place and I didn't have enough fingers.
The solution: cut & glue (or score and fold) a thin mousemat so it has rubber facing out on both sides.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
If it's widescreen they can charge a premium.
Shortscreen doesn't sound as good, does it?
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
I have the HP Elite-Book 6870w and it has a full numpad. I think all the 17 and 15 inch elitebooks have a full numpad and are business class laptops.
Use a software switch on caps lock (a key never used) that will make UIOJKLM 456 123 and +0= respectively?
You could also transfer one some large colored numerals and viola. Perfect.
Your brain can plasticize its way around the acute angle at which the keys are laid out - nobody said a perfect grid was perfect.
I'd say that is the best option for you.
caps lock level: o
CAPS LOCK LEVEL: 6
viola.
A full-size wireless Mac keyboard with a trackpad. You can carry the laptop and keyboard around in less space that you'd need to lug some other garbage.
Why not?
Also have one of those Dell E6520 Windows 7 Pro 64-bit / Ubuntu dual boot - absolutely awesome machine with a full keypad, customizable media tray where you can put a second hard drive, a very sharp display and tons of expansion ports.
When those Dell boxes work, they're pretty sweet and very reasonably priced. Fingers crossed, mine never had any troubles...
My Sony Vaio F1 is a complete workstation replacement with full keyboard and full number pad. i7 quad core, 8GB ram, and 750GB HD. Near top of the line a year ago when I got it. The current F series still has the same keyboard. I highly recommend both the keyboard and the computer.
I borrowed an Acer Aspire AS7750-2354G which has a keypad, it took me 5 minutes to get used to the flat keyboard.
The keyboard and keypad were as wide and the 17inch screen.
It's build well... the owner has biked 20km back and forth from work with it for 6 months, and nothing has broken.
In case you're a Linux user, every thing works in Fedora 16.
Buy a nice USB 10-key pad.
..and one from Adesso with mechanical keyswitches: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16823166110
Here's one from Lenovo: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834995516
I can't bear the thought of limiting the whole of the machine by whether it has a (nearly) usable 10-key pad.
If you can handle the sheer size of this machine... The Asus G74 line is any geeks dream. With a full keyboard and keypad including arrow keys that are backlit it is great. It comes with a 17 inch screen, core i7 processor, 3GB video ram, 12GB ram, and yes though it is bulky the best part of it is that no matter how hard it is working it never heats up. Which means you can work with it on your lap if you want for hours on end an no matter how much video or anything else you throw at it... It literally does not change temperature, unlike pretty much everything else out there (apple should take notice because they do a crap job at heat management). Things to note: -it comes with 4 USB ports 1 of which is powered all the time even if the machine is off for charging of devices. -it also comes with a dvi port -blueray availability varies by reseller -synaptics touchpad can be glitchy at times though this is a trait of synaptics line not just for this specific machine.(synaptics is the multi-gesture touchpad) -it does come with a media card reader also -it also has easy to access panels on the bottom to allow easy upgrades like adding in a 2nd hard drive. All in all with the size aside this has been the best laptop that I have ever used. Beating out even the 17 inch MacBook pro because of the heat management and the fact that it has way better hardware specs for less cost. It will still run you close to $2000 if you do not find it on sale. It is a Republic Of Gamers machine but I use it for software development. This post does not want to format correctly as I am using an iPod because I am away from my laptop.
The toshiba satellite a500 series has a keyboard with a numpad, they might feel `plastic` as you said, but still good build quality.
We got this one for my wife a few years ago. She needed the number pad, too, since she's a banker. Coming from my Macbook Pro, I found her keyboard nicely large with a nice tactile feel. The only thing I didn't like about it was the lack of backlit keys (I've gotten so used to those from my MBP). Nice and sturdy, perhaps a bit heavy, the specs were fine for a business machine; you're not playing the latest games on it, though. Think we got it on sale for $400 or $500.
Don't know if HP has kept that line or not though.
Vote monkeys into Congress. They are cheaper and more trustworthy.
The Macbook and Macbook Pro's keyboard is the best I've ever used on a mobile computer, hands down. The quality is just unbeatable.
After using a Dell laptop for work for several years, when my wife needed a laptop for school we shopped the Dell selection first and were very pleased in-store with the Studio line: 17" display, "full size" keyboard (as a developer with large hands it's not really "full size", but close enough...), good battery life, and the keypad is placed exactly where your right hand expects it to be (not a little higher, or a little lower, than the "home" row, but just right!) I inherited it as my "work" machine when she injured her knee and needed something lighter to lug around campus, and we got her a Dell notebook -- her chief complaint was the loss of the keypad! The lone (but not trivial) drawback is that there's no real "break" key on the keyboard, and for some apps Ctrl-C just doesn't cut it. As such, when working with certain apps I plug-in an external USB keyboard just to have access to a Break key. Other than that, and the ~$800 price, it's a dream machine. Oh, one more thing I just discovered quite by accident: last weekend I either hit the wrong button on the RedBox or it just screwed up and gave me a blue-ray disk instead of the standard DVD our living room player wants/needs. After trying unsuccessfully to get it to play in the living room, I tried popping it into he Studio laptop (this was before I realized it was blue-ray, or I wouldn't have even tried it...) and...surprise!! Played it just fine. Who knew?!
This space intentionally left (almost) blank.
Forget the keyboard, I hate the touch pad, can we get a mouse that seamlessly clicks into the side of a laptop? It's so annoying carrying a separate mouse with cables when I could be just popping this thing out of the case itself.
A little heavier than the F series, costs less, for about the same features. the 17" 1080p screen is beautiful. with the 1080p screen they start at less than $1000. only available online from Sony.
I recently purchased a Pavilion g6 series. It's not so bad, but I'd suggest turning off some of the short cuts. I've accidently triggered a function enablement feature that's supposed to make it's use easy several times, and it's a major pain because I can't type anything until I turn the feature off. Somewhat small keyboards aren't too much a bother. I always liked HP. I had an HP desktop that lasted for nearly ten years after it's manufacture date.