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IT Positions Some of the Toughest Jobs To Fill In US

Posted by Unknown on from the fifty-years-of-dot-net-experience-required dept.

coondoggie writes "Forty-nine percent of U.S. companies are having a hard time filling what workforce management firm ManpowerGroup calls mission-critical positions within their organizations. IT staff, engineers and 'skilled trades' are among the toughest spots to fill. The group surveyed some 1,300 employers and noted that U.S. companies are struggling to find talent, despite continued high unemployment, over their global counterparts, where 34% of employers worldwide are having difficulty filling positions."

30 of 886 comments (clear)

  1. Salaries by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Maybe they are hard to fill because they dont pay enough?

    1. Re:Salaries by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 5, Funny

      Impossible. As everybody skilled in economics knows, there are no low salaries, only lazy workers.

    2. Re:Salaries by captbob2002 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      That seems to be the case that I see. Positions that want YEARS of experience, long lists of certifications, and pay around $34,000.

      Same with any other area, there is no shortage of people wanting jobs, there *is* a shortage of people wanting to be slaves. Shouldn't "market forces" tell these "job creators" that they are not paying enough?

    3. Re:Salaries by 0100010001010011 · · Score: 5, Funny

      So what you say is you take what the non-technical people say back to the technical people. Couldn't the technical people just talk to the technical people directly?

    4. Re:Salaries by MickyTheIdiot · · Score: 5, Interesting

      While interpersonal skills are important, in many jobs I've had there is WAY too much emphasis put on them. I personally believe this is because it is a skillset that a manager can understand while the non-technical types don't understand the technical competence. For certain I.T. people and programming-types it's much more important, IMHO, that they understand the technical side as 95% of their job should be in front of the computer (this is excepting support personnel that have to deal with the public). I've seen quite a number of work situations where it is the other way around.

    5. Re:Salaries by CanHasDIY · · Score: 5, Funny

      So what you say is you take what the non-technical people say back to the technical people. Couldn't the technical people just talk to the technical people directly?

      I'm a PEOPLE PERSON, DAMMIT!

      --
      An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
    6. Re:Salaries by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      I deal with the god damn customers so the engineers don't have to. I have people skills; I am good at dealing with people. Can't you understand that? What the hell is wrong with you?

    7. Re:Salaries by cpu6502 · · Score: 5, Informative

      I don't buy that.
      I think it comes down to $$$. Same reason Jobs put Apple factories overseas to save ~$25 per iPod.

      If the hidden-camera videos on youtube are accurate, the companies DON'T want to find U.S. workers, but instead collect resumes (per requirements of U.S. law) simply to throw them in the trash afterwards. Their real mission is to claim "we can't find any locals" to the Congress, so they can apply for temporary visas to import cheaper workers from overseas.

      --
      My AC stalker: " I personally agree with your posts most of the time, but that won't keep me from modding you troll"
    8. Re:Salaries by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Sorry, I don't buy your argument.

      If you strike possessing security clearance from the listed of mandatory requirements, and change it to "must be able to obtain a security clearance", your field of candidates will open up. Yes, you will have to pay for someone to get cleared, and that is not cheap, but there is an acute shortage of information security practitioners as it is.

      The reality is IS pro's with TS/SCI clearance command a premium due to the insatiable demand from the U.S. Government and firms that do business with the same.

    9. Re:Salaries by Grishnakh · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Wrong. What you meant to say was:

      "Impossible. As every MBA knows, there are no low salaries, only lazy workers."

      It's not economists who are running these companies.

    10. Re:Salaries by MickyTheIdiot · · Score: 5, Insightful

      This is interesting because what you are saying here is to actually **develop** your workforce.

      Most corporations don't want to do that anymore.

    11. Re:Salaries by MickyTheIdiot · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I've bought specialized software from some small home-grown companies of 3-4 programmers with at least 50% of the programmers being H1b. Yes it isn't evidence, but it does happen more than you think.

    12. Re:Salaries by Captain+Hook · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The only problem I have with this conspiracy theory is that it might be true for some giant company like MS or Intel which has political connections and hires lots of H1Bs

      I think it's an ecosystem problem, if a significant proportion of the IT jobs are being replaced via off-shoring or outsourcing to inshore companies who don't pay as well then for every job lost you've also lost a person keeping their skills up to date and then the next generation see whats happening and say "fuck that, I'll get an MBA instead".

      To start with it probably doesn't have a big affect but by the time you start losing the veterans to promotion and retirement after 10-15 years and haven't got their replacement already trained with some experience then it's too late. You need a certain critical mass of people interested in a career to keep it going or skills will be lost and once they are gone it's incredibly hard to get back at a national level.

      You need people entering the IT careers at the bottom, to have some exposure to different IT career streams and for them to have a certain expectation of being able to develop a life long career out of it, and I don't think anyone really believes that will happen any more.

      It's a self fulfilling prophecy which benefits those to have the ability to influence job markets at the expense of those who don't.

      --
      These comments are my personal opinions and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of the other voices in my head.
    13. Re:Salaries by MickyTheIdiot · · Score: 5, Insightful

      > ...more productive people...

      BUZZ. Thank you. Your whole point is lost by such ignorant language.

      I.T. people keep the organization running from day to day. To pull a Neil Boortz and start to whine about the "productive class" means your opinion should be roundfiled and proves that our upset about the MBA scam is justified.

      I'd bet the first person you reflexively call is one of those "unproductive" people.

    14. Re:Salaries by s.petry · · Score: 5, Funny

      Partially correct, but you are missing the most important thing gone awry in IT today.

      Dear company,

      While I understand you have vast needs in the IT area, and wish to do less with more there are limits to human capacity. I can not fill the role of Senior Unix Analyst/Engineer/Architect, Network Analyst/Engineer/Architect, MS Windows Analyst/Engineer/Architect, Storage SAN/NAS Analyst/Engineer/Architect, Firewall and Security Analyst/Engineer/Architect any more than you would expect your CPA to be your attorney, business analyst and lead sales person. You need to pick one or two of these things, preferably what I have spent twenty years mastering and allow me to do my job.

      I also understand that you have developers that read trade magazines and demand that they have what they read about. This has created workplaces that are impossible to support. There should be no more than three versions of any Operating system on site and those should be limited to not more than 2 types of Linux. One for development, one for production, and one for legacy. Allow your IT staff to keep your development on track, give us the reigns and watch how fast you can go and how far you can drive.

      Lastly, contrary to popular belief IT people enjoy time away from work and the office. We do not like to be on call 24/7/365 with no bonuses and no breaks. We expect to be treated with the same respect as the Corporate Lawyer that saves your ass in court, as we often save your ass with our magical IT skills and keep production up and moving even when systems collapse.

      --

      -The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.

    15. Re:Salaries by hairyfeet · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Bingo! This is why I quit doing corporate, I got so damned tired of being looked at as this money sucking leech and being expected to fix a bazillion wrong things with no damned money and little help. These bean counting pricks act like you can keep those POS PCs forever, that nothing ever breaks down, and that ANY money IT asks for is a waste. Now with work conditions like that, is it any damned wonder that nobody wants the fucking job?

      Now I work with consumers and small business and while the pay isn't as good you know what? They are ACTUALLY GRATEFUL for the job you do! And they will actually LISTEN to your suggestions without looking at every damned thing as a way for you to "waste money", not to mention they don't call you 24/7 and expect your ass to jump like a frog on a hot plate. Fuck corporate IT, it is one of the shittiest jobs I have ever worked! Between the bad attitudes, the fighting for every penny, the long hours, the PHB bullshit, frankly I'd sit on a street corner with my acoustic and a tin cup rather that do that God damned job again!

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    16. Re:Salaries by PRMan · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Now if you prove yourself a hard worker, (and the company is using proper HR policies), The company will see your value as greater and give you a raise, and try harder to retain you.

      HAHAHAHAHAHAHA. I've never seen this anywhere I've worked. There are so many things wrong with that statement it's hard to even know where to begin:

      1. The best IT people are NOT hard working. They are astoundingly LAZY. They write almost nothing and never look like they are doing anything. And yet their code is fast, clean, maintainable and they are always moving to the next project because the last one is in production and butter smooth. It's 100% impossible for an IT outsider to know who the good employees are.

      2. I've never been at a company that used any HR policy that even found good employees period. They SHOULD concentrate on what you accomplished and how much money it made or saved the company. Instead, they usually devolve into twisted popularity contests or seeing who is the most obsequious or who is the best meaningless rule-follower.

      3. I've never been at a company (that wasn't a consulting company) where they gave ANY value to IT workers period. Despite the fact that you are out-earning them 2:1 in some cases and that your IQ is 25-30 points higher than theirs, they treat you like you are some dumb plumber or auto mechanic that dropped out of high school and are overcharging them for fixing their car or something.

      4. Companies will spend a fortune to attract new talent and pay recruiters 10-15% for the privilege. But they have stupid rules in place that PREVENT them from EVER giving a 5% raise to an IT worker no matter how valuable they are. As such, they spend all their time re-training instead of retaining.

      --
      Peter predicted that you would "deliberately forget" creation 2000 years ago...
    17. Re:Salaries by erp_consultant · · Score: 5, Insightful

      "I've never been at a company (that wasn't a consulting company) where they gave ANY value to IT workers period" - That's why I went into consulting. Working in IT support puts you in a cost center in the eyes of senior management. In consulting I am a revenue generator. The difference is night and day in terms of how are you treated.

    18. Re:Salaries by DaveGod · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Don't resent people with MBAs; they perform an important role in understanding business -- especially finance and accounting.

      As an accountant I can confirm "MBAs" don't know shit about finance and accounting.

      MBAs were created because people highly skilled in one thing eventually get promoted into upper management, which requires a whole new bunch of skills and knowledge which they've never needed to learn before because it was never relevant before. It's a very broad, but very short course where the intention is to teach just about enough for them to get the gist when someone competent in a particular field (e.g. the senior accountant or head of marketing) is talking about things in the board meeting. This means they get taught at a very high (i.e. strategic) level and not fundamental basics.

      The problem is that the arrogant ones then think they've got the super-smarts and try to "get creative" with something when they have no grasp of the fundamental concept. Seriously, some of these guys think they have a much better idea about specialist areas after a couple of weeks on an MBA course than guys who have a decade of higher+ learning and decades of direct experience.

      What you want an MBA for is the newly-promoted director of engineering who's been an engineer all his life, knows everything about engineering and just needs a crash-course on the crap the other guys are talking about in the board meetings.

  2. Two part problem by i+kan+reed · · Score: 5, Insightful

    1. Americans bailed on the sector when the first big bump in 1998-2000. This left a gap that new trainees never really came in to fill.
    2. H1Bs go home. This means the insane over-recruitment of H1B employees had a cost at the end of their terms.
    3. There has been, up until 2008, and attitude in the U.S. that any college degree is good enough. My state only graduated 40,000 people from community colleges/trade schools this year. Everyone with higher aspirations just went to a 4 year school. To do less is to view oneself as a failure(and employers do too).
    4. Combine that with a culture with a slight distaste for mathematics and science and that's more than enough basic features to explain a discrepancy of this level.

  3. Basic economics by beamin · · Score: 5, Insightful

    They just need to up their offer. Go invisible hand!

  4. There is a major shortage of recuiters and HR by johnb10001 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    people that can write a job description and match job seekers to the jobs.

  5. No, really? by Sarten-X · · Score: 5, Insightful

    As someone who recently sought to fill one of those openings, I have some advice for companies looking to hire: Let your existing IT people write the job listing. A disturbing number of the listings I came across were ridiculous.

    5 years experience required, for an entry-level position at $25,000 salary with weekends on-call? Nope. I might be unemployed, but I don't want to lose money on a job.

    Looking for someone A+-certified with mainframe maintenance and 15 years of Java programming experience? I'm close to qualified, but now I'm scared.

    Five programming tests and two phone interviews, and the face-to-face interviewer doesn't even get my name even close to right? I don't think the epitome of "faceless corporation" is the right fit...

    Look, I understand that there are lots of IT folks out of work, and you think that if you ask for the world, you'll get it from them. You might meet some success, but is stripping your employees of dignity really the right way to get a productive workforce?

    --
    You do not have a moral or legal right to do absolutely anything you want.
  6. 3 reasons by jbolden · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The original article listed the 3 reasons the slots were hard to fill, "including lack of available applicants, applicants looking for more pay and lack of experience"

    So in other words employers who don't recruit, don't pay much and aren't willing to train are having trouble. Well good.

  7. Fortune passes everywhere by undeadbill · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Management are finally discovering what experienced IT staffers have been warning them about for years- failure to invest in training and mentoring entry-level staff will result in shortages over all levels of skill in the future.

    Skilled staff are not a commodity. They are not widgets that can be easily replaced. Moreover, the attrition rate for the IT field is high- I am one of 4 people I know among my extended group of friends with more than 20 years in the business who are still working as non-management. Everyone else has either changed professions to something else, or is in management.

    The unemployment rate for IT staff in my region is less than 3%. I stopped trying to get requisitions for new staff to train up years ago when I realized that until their pants are on fire, management at most companies simply won't understand that it can take three to five years to train up a good IT staffer, provided the will and funding are there to do it. So, this new "news" is not a surprise to me, and I've taken a more laid back approach as I've realized that there isn't any purpose to changing some peoples' minds about the growing staff shortage. As of now, I'm enjoying the ride, letting people call me and determining where I'm going to have to argue least about pay.

  8. Ageism by vlm · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Don't forget the ageism thing. Shocked no one mentioned this.

    Must have 25 years Java experience... and the unwritten rule is be under 30.

    Sometimes ageism shows up in ridiculous combos, where the only way to get that combo is to already have that specific position, or be about 60.. and they only hire kids under 30.

    --
    "Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
  9. Ridiculous requirements and bad salaries by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    What if drivers were hired like software developers?

    Job title: car driver

    Job requirements: professional skills in driving normal- and heavy-freight cars, buses and trucks, trolley buses, trams, subways, tractors, shovel diggers, contemporary light and heavy tanks currently in use by NATO countries.

    Skills in rally and extreme driving are obligatory!
    Formula-1 driving experience is a plus.

    Knowledge and experience in repairing of piston and rotor/Wankel engines, automatic and manual transmissions, ignition systems, board computer, ABS, ABD, GPS and car-audio systems by world-known manufacturers - obligatory!

    Experience with car-painting and tinsmith tasks is a plus.

    The applicants must have certificates by BMW, General Motors and Bosch, but not older than two years.

    Compensation: $15-$20/hour, depends on the interview result.

    Education requirements: Bachelor's Degree of Engineering.

  10. You pay slave wages, you get slave labour. by khasim · · Score: 5, Insightful

    While you MIGHT get extremely lucky and find one of the few techs who (for whatever reason) needs a job at any salary while having all those skills ...

    You'll pretty much end up with two situations:

    1. That person will be gone as soon as they find a better paying job. And you will have to start over again.

    2. That person really does not have those skills and is willing to learn them "on the job" while making all the mistakes a novice would make. And then leaves to find a better paying job.

    Either way, you pay slave wages, you get slave labour.

  11. Requirements by Rtarara · · Score: 5, Funny
    Seeking qualified IT person. Requirements:

    10 years C++
    5-7 years Java
    5-7 years HTML and CSS
    2-3 years SQL
    2-3 years Ruby
    1 year JQuery
    1 year COBOL
    Familiarity with VHDL
    Must be a Team Player
    Must be willing to work 60 hours per week
    Must know ballroom dancing
    Must speak sloth

    Salary 40,000 per year

    I have no idea why they are having difficulties....

  12. Re:Or find someone to slave for low wages by wierd_w · · Score: 5, Informative

    Wrong.

    Factor in the adult education costs to meet the requirements. You will find that your applicants will be statistically saddled with out of control student loans they need to make payments on. As such, they actually *NEED* the 100k figure, just to buy food and gas to come and work for you.

    The one suffering the entitlement complex is the business's HR dept, demanding absurd requirements for a low paying position. "We don't want to pay to train those people!" Is not a suitable out for this problem. I don't want to pay taxes either, but that doesn't mean I can tell uncle sam to fuck off on tax season.

    Like any purchaser, (an employer purchases labor.), you need to shop, and determine a fair price based on all outstanding market forces, and realize that after a certain point, you get what you pay for.

    It is unsrealistic to expect people to live in poverty like conditions (yes, you pay them a "decent wage", but that is for somebody that isn't paying asstons of money to an educational institution on the installment plan. When you pay several grand a month for student loan payments, 50k a year is barely livable on the "ramen for dinner" budget. Eg, poverty.) *JUST* so they can work for you.

    I understand that as an employer, you have to make sure your applicants meet your basic needs. When buying a boat, you want one that doesn't leak. However, demanding a yacht for 300$ is rediculous. It costs more than that to build the yacht. Saying the shipyard is suffering from entitlement issues is totally in the wrong. If all you need is a boat to putter around a lake in, a little fishing boat is more appropriate to your needs and your budget. That is what you should hire. Don't demand a yacht unless you need a yacht, because you *will* end up paying yacht prices.

    Need somebody to cobble together a shellscript? Your typical highschool kid can do that. Don't demand 10+yrs linux experience with sysadmin experience, a CS degree, and 50 industry certs. That's like demanding a nascar certified pit mechanic to have your tire changed, when a walmart tech with a speedwrench is more than adequate. Hire the walmart kid. Leave the nascar pit mechanic to the nascar circuit where he's really needed.

    stop saying the nascar guy suffers "entitlement" bcause he refuses to work changing your tire for 10$/hr. You're the one suffering entitlement by demanding a high-rate nascar pit mechanic for piddly shit. Seriously.