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Apple Yanks Toddler's Speech-Enabling App

theodp writes "TIME reports that four-year-old Maya Nieder's speech-enabling 'Speak for Yourself' app was yanked from the App Store by Apple due to an unresolved patent dispute at the behest of Prentke Romich Company (PRC) and Semantic Compaction Systems (SCS), makers of designated communication devices (not iPad apps). 'The issue of whether or not Apple should have pulled Speak for Yourself from the App Store before the case was decided is trickier. Obviously, Apple would rather be safe than sorry and remove a potentially problematic app instead of risking legal action. The problem, however, is that this isn’t some counterfeit version of Angry Birds.' 'My daughter cannot speak without this app,' writes Maya's mom, Dana. 'She cannot ask us questions. She cannot tell us that she's tired, or that she wants yogurt for lunch. She cannot tell her daddy that she loves him.' If you're so inclined, Dana suggests you drop a note to appstorenotices@apple.com."

573 comments

  1. But she still can... by Bad+Ad · · Score: 5, Informative

    But its still on her device - so she still can do all those things. If she syncs her phone/ipad with itunes, she even has her own back up of the app and can reinstall it just fine.

    1. Re:But she still can... by SJHillman · · Score: 5, Informative

      A few notes:
      1) This is not the only way she can communicate, simply the cheapest $299 + iPad). The first paragraph of the article says that much. Later on it does mention that the iPad app is the only one the girl took to right away.
      2) Although it's still on her iPad, they worry that it won't get app updates and that an iOS update may break it
      3) The article says Slashdot broke the news, and now Slashdot is pointing at the article that is pointing at Slashdot...

    2. Re:But she still can... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      I know I shouldn't be surprised that in your rush to be a pontificating, superior, smug arsehole you didn't bother to read the article but:

      "While she already has the app on her iPad, she worries about the fact that Speak for Yourself can’t send out updates and that new iOS updates from Apple could interfere with how the app function"

    3. Re:But she still can... by Rob+the+Bold · · Score: 1

      But its still on her device - so she still can do all those things. If she syncs her phone/ipad with itunes, she even has her own back up of the app and can reinstall it just fine.

      TFA points out that it could still stop working with an iOS update.

      --
      I am not a crackpot.
    4. Re:But she still can... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But its still on her device - so she still can do all those things. If she syncs her phone/ipad with itunes, she even has her own back up of the app and can reinstall it just fine.

      But it's her sentiment to all the other parents who deal with this problem. Obviously there are other tools out there for this kind of thing (iPad or not). She's not complaining that she doesn't have it anymore, but it's not available to others.

    5. Re:But she still can... by theodp · · Score: 4, Informative

      I think TIME is referring to Slashdot's March story on Software Patents Not So Abstract When the Lawsuits Hit Home. The yanking of the app from the App Store is a more recent development.

    6. Re:But she still can... by Bad+Ad · · Score: 5, Insightful

      So do not update your iOS. Keep your iDevice how it is right now. If its that important to you, treat it as a non up-datable speech tool. It will work as it does right now...

    7. Re:But she still can... by FireFury03 · · Score: 1, Insightful

      So do not update your iOS. Keep your iDevice how it is right now. If its that important to you, treat it as a non up-datable speech tool. It will work as it does right now...

      Right up until your iDevice fails at the end of its 3 year design life and you have to replace it with something incompatable

    8. Re:But she still can... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      But its still on her device - so she still can do all those things. If she syncs her phone/ipad with itunes, she even has her own back up of the app and can reinstall it just fine.

      Apple has the ability to delete apps from your device.

      Oh, wait, you thought the iDevice belonged to you? Wrong - it's pwned by Apple, and Apple can do whatever they like with it. You agreed to that in the terms & conditions.

      Maybe you shouldn't do business with such a controlling, dictatorial company.

    9. Re:But she still can... by CohibaVancouver · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Oh, wait, you thought the iDevice belonged to you? Wrong

      The *device* belongs to you - Unless you've stolen it, Apple can't stop by your house and take it away. It's the *content* on the device that is licensed. Perhaps it's semantics (the device is not very useful without content) but the fact remains that the device is yours.

    10. Re:But she still can... by Bad+Ad · · Score: 1

      You mean those optional updates that you don't have to install? oh, ok then.

    11. Re:But she still can... by Richard_at_work · · Score: 1

      And if the company supplying it really cared, they could include the girls iPad in the list of 100 devices they are allowed to locally sign and distribute for.

    12. Re:But she still can... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Dont forget being portable. The other alternatives are not really portable and suck compared to the iPad version.

    13. Re:But she still can... by hobarrera · · Score: 1

      Why does the company have to go to such complicated measures for every one of it's clients, because Apple won't allow their clients to continue updating the product with no appropiate reason?

      It would be good on their behalf, but their still a bussiness.

    14. Re:But she still can... by MickyTheIdiot · · Score: 2

      which gets you back to discussion on the broken patent system. Another reason why we say it is broken is because it artificially inflates market prices and prevents the decimation of technology that was previously only available to the richest few.

    15. Re:But she still can... by Richard_at_work · · Score: 2

      They could always successfully defend themselves in court and resolve the issue.

    16. Re:But she still can... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I love how this comment is modded troll. . . yet, if this were the exact same article and comment on a Microsoft product it would be +5 Insightful in no time. So fail on this community.

    17. Re:But she still can... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      For F's sake... someone mod this comment correctly.

    18. Re:But she still can... by BasilBrush · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Apps generally don't stop working when an new OS or device comes out. But if at some point in the iPad she has stops working, and new devices are incompatible with the app, she can buy an older one second hand. And restore from iTunes.

      Sorry but the sensationalism of taking away an app from a child that needs it just doesn't hold water. And the law, as best as the legal dept see it, must be obeyed.

    19. Re:But she still can... by mooingyak · · Score: 2

      it artificially inflates market prices and prevents the decimation of technology that was previously only available to the richest few.

      emphasis mine. Did you mean dissemination?

      --
      William of Ockham had no beard. The most likely explanation is that it was chewed off by squirrels every morning.
    20. Re:But she still can... by BasilBrush · · Score: 2

      The law IS an appropriate reason. By law, any person who makes, uses, offers or sells something that is protected by a current patent, or who imports into the United States anything that is protected by a current patent, is guilty of patent infringement.

      So if Apple believes that the patent(s) has indeed been infringed, the only lawful thing for them to do is to remove it from their store.

    21. Re:But she still can... by MickyTheIdiot · · Score: 3, Funny

      oh shit.

    22. Re:But she still can... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, except iOS updates don't usually break apps. And they could always, shit, not apply iOS updates to the device. So she has the app, and as long as the parents aren't idiots, she'll keep it.

    23. Re:But she still can... by SJHillman · · Score: 1

      I haven't supported any iOS devices in the past 7 months, but before that I was supporting around 30 iPhones and iPads. iOS updates frequently broke apps or even OS functions like 3G and wifi.

    24. Re:But she still can... by c0mpliant · · Score: 1

      Agreed, really don't see why this is modded down as troll. Apple do have the ability to remotely remove your app from your phone. So its not out of the realms of possibility that this is what happened here...

      --
      There is no -1 disagree
    25. Re:But she still can... by FireFury03 · · Score: 0

      Apps generally don't stop working when an new OS or device comes out.

      I'm not convinced about any of that. I know a number of old Android apps won't work on new versions of Android (yes, I'm aware we're not talking about Android, but I have even less faith in Apple maintaining compatibility). Also the same is true the other way around - various apps spontaneously stopped working on my old HTC Dream then the authors pushed our updates for them without bothering to check whether they actually worked on Android versions prior to 2.0 (Market actually allows the vendors to specify which versions of Android the update is compatible with, but unfortunately a lot of (most?) authors just seem to claim its compatible with everything without checking.)

      she can buy an older one second hand.

      Second hand hardware is only available for a reasonably short period, in the grand scheme of things.

      And restore from iTunes.

      I'm not familiar with Apple's software, would this restore the exact OS version you were using along with any apps even if they have been withdrawn from the appstore?

    26. Re:But she still can... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Tell that to my original iPhone, that I still use as my main phone, or my 4th gen iPod from ~2004 that still works great, battery included.

    27. Re:But she still can... by jpate · · Score: 5, Informative

      A few notes: 1) This is not the only way she can communicate, simply the cheapest $299 + iPad). The first paragraph of the article says that much. Later on it does mention that the iPad app is the only one the girl took to right away.

      The parents tried several much more expensive alternatives (including devices by the plaintiffs), but they were all too heavy or too difficult for an illiterate four-year-old to operate. They're not just going for the cheapest option

    28. Re:But she still can... by jd2112 · · Score: 1

      That will be helpful if the girl's grandchildren have the same condition.

      --
      Any insufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology.
    29. Re:But she still can... by camperdave · · Score: 1

      The law IS an appropriate reason. By law, any person who makes, uses, offers or sells something that is protected by a current patent, or who imports into the United States anything that is protected by a current patent, is guilty of patent infringement.

      So if Apple believes that the patent(s) has indeed been infringed, the only lawful thing for them to do is to remove it from their store.

      Particularly this bit: " any person who makes, uses, offers or sells something that is protected by a current patent, or who imports into the United States anything that is protected by a current patent, is guilty of patent infringement."

      --
      When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
    30. Re:But she still can... by MachineShedFred · · Score: 1

      And what the article (and you) miss, is that you are not compelled by anything to actually install those updates, other than the "update" button in iTunes, or general settings as of iOS 5.

      Don't want it to break due to a future update? Don't install any future updates.

      --
      Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
    31. Re:But she still can... by deathguppie · · Score: 5, Insightful

      My wife is a speech language pathologist. Years ago I remember looking at a Prentke Romich tablet she brought home to customize the interface for a student. I couldn't help but think how simple it was for a device that cost around $3k. Just for the basic version from there they go up to nearly $10k.(yes I know there is a bit into putting together the icon sets and sounds.. I'm speaking relatively) Prentke Romich sells to hospitals, and other major medical institutions that have need for such a device, and can afford it, they do not sell to individuals per se, simply because the average family cannot afford one. They charge a lot of money for them. I very much doubt they are concerned with the "actual" needs of people as much as they are their pocket book.

      --
      once more into the breach
    32. Re:But she still can... by rtfa-troll · · Score: 1

      the only lawful thing for them to do is to remove it from their store.

      There is another option; Apple can ask the court or the patent holders for a temporary permission to distribute this to pre-existing owners whilst they wait for the court case to be resolved. Now I don't know whether Apple has attempted this, so I can't know if I should fully blame Apple. I do know that Apple has driven forward and supported software patents so I know they have some of the blame for this situation. I know for sure that the owners of the patents are aware of this situation and have knowingly, maliciously and gratuitously failed to stand up and grant that temporary license. For this I wish I could become religeous so I could believe they would rot in hell.

      --
      =~ s,(.*),<sarcasm>$1</sarcasm>,g if any_point_you_wish();
    33. Re:But she still can... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Probably better that you just don't comment on stuff you obviously have no clue on.

      Apple is better than Android in terms of backwards compatibility.

      Apple hardware is available longer on the used market because it's worth more.

      Yes, you can do a full restore and reinstall apps that are local to your machine, even if they're not in the app store.

    34. Re:But she still can... by ceoyoyo · · Score: 3, Insightful

      "Apple has the ability to delete apps from your device."

      Which they don't, unlike Google, who also has that ability. So what's your point?

    35. Re:But she still can... by Empiric · · Score: 5, Insightful

      And the law, as best as the legal dept see it, must be obeyed.

      Back in my day, we had a thing called...

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_Disobedience_(Thoreau)

      Now that maximizing shareholder value (or, compatibly, keeping your job) is serving as a no-thought-required stand-in for ethics, though, by acting in effect as a rubber-stamping arm of the government on issues like this, that seems to be less and less in the public consciousness...

      Sorry, your post's phrasing seemed to have a certain... disturbing automaticness about it, and I haven't had my morning coffee yet.

      --
      ~ Whence do you come, slayer of men, or where are you going, conqueror of space?
    36. Re:But she still can... by NatasRevol · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I'm wondering why the girl can't do sign language. Her physical problem is weak vocal cord muscles.

      I taught both my kids sign language before they could speak. Didn't cost anything.

      --
      There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
    37. Re:But she still can... by jo_ham · · Score: 1

      What iDevice do you have that "fails" at the end of its "three year" design life?

      I've not run into one yet that simply stops working. Batteries are easy to replace, screens are not impossible to repair in the event of damage etc.

      I'm curious by what you mean. You were modded insightful, so clearly there's some salient point, I'm just not sure what it is. Why will her device fail after three years and why will she be obligated to replace it with something "incompatable" [sic]?

    38. Re:But she still can... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      That is the only way she can communicate. It is not the only assistive device for people like Maya, but the only one Maya can effectively use to communicate. The fact that other devices cost 10 times as much as an iPad is irrelevant because Maya tried one and couldn't use it.

      And currently being on her iPad is only useful until the inevitable happens and they have to restore from a backup, at which point the then-current version of iTunes may decide that she shouldn't have access to the "illegal" app.

      dom

    39. Re:But she still can... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just wait till they tell the FBI you stole the device and they need help getting it back. Sure, it's only happened with that prototype so far, so far as I know, but I bet they also hand out gag orders to make sure people won't go spreading around that Apple really can take it back.

    40. Re:But she still can... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The device may belong to you, but apple pretty much "owns" it.

    41. Re:But she still can... by StuartHankins · · Score: 1

      In my experience, yes, but I haven't run into any issues where the older IOS version is necessary to use an older app. Theoretically I guess you could have issues with deprecated features. So you could restore from an old backup or install an old IOS version in that case.

      I've also got some experience with pulled apps -- I installed 2 apps which were later pulled from the App Store (StoneLoops of Jurassica, a game which apparently is like/based on Luxor; and VLC) and although they are no longer available there, they have been through many IOS updates... StoneLoops is from my iPod Touch 2 which is a very very long time. It's currently on my iPad running the latest IOS version (which means I not only retained the file, I also was able to install it on a different device). VLC is on my iPhone which is also running the latest IOS version. None of my stuff is jailbroken.

    42. Re:But she still can... by NatasRevol · · Score: 1

      It is NOT the *only* way she can communicate. Her physical problem is weak vocal cord muscles.

      In other words, sign language would work just fine.

      --
      There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
    43. Re:But she still can... by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      Don't get me wrong, I'm up for a bit of civil disobedience myself. But we really don't want to be encouraging corporations to disobey the law, now do we.

    44. Re:But she still can... by Guspaz · · Score: 0

      I'm not convinced about any of that. I know a number of old Android apps won't work on new versions of Android

      That's not what the OP meant. They meant that a new OS release that the user DOES NOT install won't cause apps to stop working (because it won't be installed). It's true that future versions of an app might break support for older OS, but that's not a problem in this case since it was pulled from the app store.

      Basically, the complaint is that Apple pulled the app from the store at the start of the dispute instead of the end of it. Well, there's nothing stopping anybody from continuing to use this app until the dispute is resolved. That's not forever: either the app is restored, or it wasn't legal to begin with.

    45. Re:But she still can... by oh_my_080980980 · · Score: 1

      Yeah because OS software updates never break software *eye roll*

    46. Re:But she still can... by Guspaz · · Score: 0

      As has been pointed out, the solution to that is to simply not install any iOS updates.

    47. Re:But she still can... by oh_my_080980980 · · Score: 1

      Way to be a douche bad and miss the big picture. No injunction has be issued baring Apple from selling the app. Until an injunction has been issued by the court Apple can tell PRC/SCS to fuck off.

    48. Re:But she still can... by BasilBrush · · Score: 2

      So you could restore from an old backup or install an old IOS version in that case.

      Actually, that's one thing you couldn't do. Once you've upgraded an iOS device, it's not possible to downgrade it again. It's a measure to make life difficult for jailbreakers.

    49. Re:But she still can... by NatasRevol · · Score: 1

      It works both ways.

      --
      There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
    50. Re:But she still can... by Anubis+IV · · Score: 1

      Can you point to a single instance of this occurring? Yes, they have the ability, but they have never once exercised it in the 4-ish years that the App Store has been around (which is in contrast with Google, who has used their same ability to do so on a few different occasions). That holds true for apps that are later removed from the store too. For instance, I purchased a flashlight app that secretly enabled wireless tethering back when that wasn't a built-in feature of the OS, and even though it was yanked from the store a few hours after it was first published, Apple never deleted the app from my phone.

    51. Re:But she still can... by Alien7 · · Score: 2

      that would require that her parents and everyone around her learn sign language as well, making it not as effective of a communication tool.

    52. Re:But she still can... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So if Apple believes that the patent(s) has indeed been infringed, the only lawful thing for them to do is to remove it from their store.

      This just shows how evil the idea of patents are and how they can reduce quality of life. I agree that the law is the law, but it's a bad one that we non-wealthy cannot hope to change. :/

    53. Re:But she still can... by NatasRevol · · Score: 1

      Oh no, disabled child has to have family support disability.

      Sign language isn't that hard to learn. Much easier than a foreign language.

      --
      There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
    54. Re:But she still can... by errandum · · Score: 1

      Backwards compatibility claim is FALSE.

      Every dev needs to set a version target and if you specify 2.2 no one with 2.1 will be able to get it, but it's guaranteed to work for 2.2.

      Android won't LET you sell in the market for a target that came before the one you specified. Stop trying to sound reasonable while saying bullshit.

    55. Re:But she still can... by NatasRevol · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      Better than being an asshole like you.

      --
      There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
    56. Re:But she still can... by luis_a_espinal · · Score: 2

      Don't get me wrong, I'm up for a bit of civil disobedience myself. But we really don't want to be encouraging corporations to disobey the law, now do we.

      Dude, this is Slashdot. In here, we do want that, because, in the name of hyperbolas and long-ass run-on sentences, every parental legal squable or debatable issue must be equated with a civil rights issue, which is necessary for the self-appointed avant-gard-wannabe emotic quasi-intelligentsia to raise themselves into an emotional furor as they seek paper-thin social issues to be upset about.

      Logic and common sense are just obstacles for the local e-rebel seeking a cause to fight for to the point of oh-lookatme self e-immolation. Don't think normal, as it will inevitable make you confused in this wicked place.

    57. Re:But she still can... by BasilBrush · · Score: 3, Informative

      I know a number of old Android apps won't work on new versions of Android (yes, I'm aware we're not talking about Android, but I have even less faith in Apple maintaining compatibility).

      Then you're in the realm of religion. You know the device you use has a problem, so you assume the problem must be worse on the other device, even though you have no evidence of it.

      Second hand hardware is only available for a reasonably short period, in the grand scheme of things.

      Depends what you mean by the grand scheme of things. You can still buy Apple IIs on ebay. So she'd probably OK till the kid is in her mid 30s. But it's hard to see her not having developed past the product she was using at 3 years old by then. And in any case, any patents will long since have expired to it's hard to see that there won't be a current solution then.

      Really, it is impossible to rationally accept this emotional tabloid "think of the children" story. There's more holes than Swiss cheese.

      I'm not familiar with Apple's software, would this restore the exact OS version you were using along with any apps even if they have been withdrawn from the appstore?

      No. I mean that the second hand device she bought from eBay would have an older version of iOS on, and she could restore the app (and any associated data) using the iTunes app.

    58. Re:But she still can... by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      Use a dictionary to check the different definitions of "generally" and "never".

    59. Re:But she still can... by jeffmeden · · Score: 1

      Nope, you are right, they are full of it. The only way this would work is if you take a 100% backup to iCloud and then manage to preserve JUST that backup (i think it tries to backup automatically at a set interval and overwrite the previous, but in true apple fashion there is no documentation on exactly how this works) then it could be restored to a new ipad if you manage to successfully switch "your" ipad out for the new one. And all that assumes that as part of the "restore" it won't tell you that you must update itunes (and break/delete all the removed apps) which is something that Apple has done in the past and will probably do in the future.

    60. Re:But she still can... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That depends on how you define ownership. Legally, I can reprogram my trucks computer for better horsepower, I can bypass failed safety shutoff switches in my microwave to keep it operational and save a buck, I can even flash a custom bios to my pc's motherboard, but if you do exactly the same procedure to a wii then you are a criminal. How does this relate to iDevices? Only phones can be legally jailbroken. Explicitly:

      Computer programs that enable wireless telephone handsets to execute software applications, where circumvention is accomplished for the sole purpose of enabling interoperability of such applications, when they have been lawfully obtained, with computer programs on the telephone handset.

      This does not, and never did, extend to iPads or iPods. And more so, the exemption is set to expire soon.

      If you own the hardware but not the required software to make it work, then what do you own other than a pile of scrap?

    61. Re:But she still can... by oh_my_080980980 · · Score: 1

      Yeah optional unless it fixes a problem and software problems NEVER happen *eye roll*....

    62. Re:But she still can... by Maestro4k · · Score: 1

      Sorry but the sensationalism of taking away an app from a child that needs it just doesn't hold water. And the law, as best as the legal dept see it, must be obeyed.

      What law? There's an ongoing court dispute that neither side has won or lost yet, and PRC did not ask the court for an injunction to order the app removed. That's notable, Apple didn't receive any order to remove the app, and the complaining company didn't even try to get one. That doesn't say "PRC has an airtight case and Apple could be liable" at all. It says "PRC isn't sure they can get an order and is worried it'll hurt their case if they try and fail, so they're doing an end-run around the judge in the hope that Apple will give them a victory."

      This would still be a story if PRC had gotten an injunction, but it would be all about how big a jerk PRC is, not how big a jerk Apple's being.

      On a side note, the judge very well may not react to this kindly, as it is an end-run around their authority. Judges tend to react poorly to that, this may backfire on PRC badly. Pissing off the judge is always a bad move.

    63. Re:But she still can... by oh_my_080980980 · · Score: 1

      And Apple could keep selling the app legally until the court issues an injunction.....see how that works....

    64. Re:But she still can... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Probably better that you just don't comment on stuff you obviously have no clue on.

      Same applies to you.

      Apple is better than Android in terms of backwards compatibility.

      Really? In the update from Android Honeycomb to ICS, I had a grand total of one app that had a problem. Every minor version update for iOS has killed at least two or three things for me, some of which are never actually fixed by their vendors.

      Apple hardware is available longer on the used market because it's worth more.

      Having a higher price tag is not the same as actually being worth more.

    65. Re:But she still can... by jeffmeden · · Score: 1

      The law IS an appropriate reason. By law, any person who makes, uses, offers or sells something that is protected by a current patent, or who imports into the United States anything that is protected by a current patent, is guilty of patent infringement.

      So if Apple believes that the patent(s) has indeed been infringed, the only lawful thing for them to do is to remove it from their store.

      The most appropriate reason is that since Apple gets their 30% share from the sale and holds the keys to the gate, they are basically complicit in infringement and they are eager to use their platform control to make sure they don't end up on the losing side of a patent battle (they know what that feels like already).

    66. Re:But she still can... by oh_my_080980980 · · Score: 1

      Except the company needs to ask for an injunction in order to legally prevent Apple from selling the app. Until then it's he says she says and as we have seen with Apple's other lawsuits, simply saying Samsung infringes on patents is not enough to stop them from selling their product a court would have to issue an injunction prevent Samsung from selling its products IF they believe Apple's claims have merit.

      See how that works....

    67. Re:But she still can... by valkenar · · Score: 2

      ASL (American Sign Language) is a full-fledged (i.e. forgein) language. You can learn to speak it poorly by just transliterating your english into signs, but it doesn't even use the same word order in all cases. Just signing along with what you say in English doesn't make you fluent in ASL.

    68. Re:But she still can... by oh_my_080980980 · · Score: 1

      And what dip shits like you fail to understand is those updates may be necessary to keep the iPad device working properly. There in lies the problem. Given that no injunction has been issued preventing Apple from selling the app, Apple has no compelling reason for removing the app.

    69. Re:But she still can... by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      There is another option; Apple can ask the court or the patent holders for a temporary permission to distribute this to pre-existing owners whilst they wait for the court case to be resolved.

      What's the point? Pre-existing owners already have the app. Apple haven't wiped it from people's devices or backups. They've just removed it from their store.

      For this I wish I could become religeous so I could believe they would rot in hell.

      Oh stop being overemotional and irrational. Did you know that Apple's iOS devices are the most accessible of any mainstream computing device? That the inbuilt apps are all completely operatable by blind people? Up to and including blind people taking photographs (The photo app can say if there is a face in shot, and where about in the shot the face is.) And that this is all supported for third party apps too, if the developers choose to follow the guidelines.

    70. Re:But she still can... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      all the more reason to get away from company-controlled 'licensed' software.
      on a laptop, the app exists, can't be 'recalled', and YOU can update the OS when YOU feel like it, not when another version exists and is forced upon you.

      I'll keep my 'touchscreened' Macbook rather than get an ipad - I have too much invested in OSX-usable software to be beholden to, and trapped with, iOS apps.

    71. Re:But she still can... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The article is misleading, since there are other iPad/iPhone apps that do what this app did (e.g., TouchChat, Proloquo2Go), and are fairly inexpensive compared to the dedicated devices mentioned.

    72. Re:But she still can... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So now you're whining that you have to go build your own software?

    73. Re:But she still can... by oh_my_080980980 · · Score: 1

      Which amounts to the same thing genius. It takes one update to break something and if you need an update to keep your device working properly you are going to update it. But yeah blame the consumer.

    74. Re:But she still can... by tubs · · Score: 1

      I've had a number of apps stop working whilst updating on the apple platform (either to a new phone 3GS->4 or to a new version of the OS). To be fair they've always been "free" apps that have broken, and not ones I'm terribly sad in losing. But still, it happens.

      --

      try to make ends meet, you're a slave to money, then you die

    75. Re:But she still can... by Sir_Sri · · Score: 1

      I wasn't sure how to read that honestly. Probably everyone should be teaching their kids at least basic sign language.

      But as a practical matter out in the real world sign language doesn't help you a lot. Because most of us wouldn't recognize it. If the kid can *only* do sign you're narrowing their world significantly. That's better than nothing, but a simple speech device that can enable them to talk to anyone, including those of us illiterate in sign would help a lot.

      They're trying to tug at hearstrings with the 'can't tell dad she loves him' nonsense. There are definitely free solutions to that problem. But her ability to speak to a whole variety of people would be cut off if she were restricted purely to sign. Aunts uncles grandparents siblings cousins neighbours police security in shopping malls restaurant servers etc. are all going to be illiterate in sign most likely.

    76. Re:But she still can... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      From her family, from her school teachers, from the other students at the school, from the guy running the quickie-mart down the street, from the grocery store cashiers, from the ... yeah, it's totally practical to try and get all of those people to learn another language, including the ones who may or may not have full functionality in their hands and fingers, rather than finding a way for her to communicate with everyone she encounters.

      Very realistic of you there. Glad we've got some good solid thinkers around here who plan well, and take all of the outside factors into account.

    77. Re:But she still can... by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      All that you say is true. However you're missing the point. Apple is a potential target of being sued too for selling the app. If they themselves believe that it is indeed a patent infringement, they are wise to stop doing the infringement to save themselves from legal repercussions later.

      Just because you COULD knowingly disregard patent law until you are served with an injunction doesn't mean you should.

    78. Re:But she still can... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      What something is worth is what someone is willing to pay. Nothing more, nothing less.

    79. Re:But she still can... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My understanding is that medical devices (even things as minor as scales) need heavy vetting to ensure medical compliance and all that. I recall one poster on here talking about a medical scale, I believe it was (it was a comment on an article on here about using the Wii Fit bar thing as a medical scanner because of it's sensitivity) and mentioned that they needed to go through a BOX of paper to properly fill out all the forms and such. All of those forms take money to fill out and properly file.

    80. Re:But she still can... by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      Which amounts to the same thing genius.

      No really check out the definitions. It might make you smarter.

      It takes one update to break something and if you need an update to keep your device working properly you are going to update it.

      If my device is working with my all important app today, why is it going to stop working tomorrow if I don't install that OS update?

      If my fear is that OS updates are going to break my app, why would I install the OS update?

      Hmm... it may need more than a dictionary to make you smart.

    81. Re:But she still can... by cblack · · Score: 1

      And the law, as best as the legal dept see it, must be obeyed.

      Back in my day, we had a thing called...

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_Disobedience_(Thoreau)

      You expect Apple to practice civil disobedience against IP law? Has a large corporation ever done so?

    82. Re:But she still can... by Glarimore · · Score: 1

      So what you're saying is that the device belongs to me, but I can't do what I want with it or control what goes on it.

      Makes sense.

      You could say the same thing about the PS3 pre- and post- removal of the Other OS feature. Doesn't make it any less wrong or fucked up.

    83. Re:But she still can... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I wish I had mod points. Best reply to a spelling/grammar correction. Ever.

    84. Re:But she still can... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sorry but Civil rights must trump both Intellectual Property Rights and other abuse of process.

      If someone invents something, I don't care what it is, be it a cure for cancer, cure for baldness, or a software application that enables blind, deaf and mute people to communicate, the benefit of the many outweigh the benefit of the inventor. Yes they are entitled to profit from their invention, they are not however entitled to an injunction prohibiting or recalling anything violating the patent if they fail to produce the item being patented. They are only entitled to licencing fees of which can not be more than what any other licensee is paying.

      This isn't the same as China buying a 747, reverse engineering it and then selling it as a C919 to the same customers who would buy the 747. If China copied the 747 and then it enabled China to mass produce domestic aircraft to reach unserved areas while still buying 747's then there is no loss.

      My point is that removing the software from the App store is a "dick move" and should not happen unless the developer volunteers to withdraw it, refunding all buyers, and pointing out where to buy the replacement.

    85. Re:But she still can... by BitZtream · · Score: 0

      Actually, douchebag, its well known that kids can do sign language well before they can speak, and teaching them sign language is very useful for a number of reasons, including basic intelligence and development down the road.

      So yes, everyone SHOULD do what he did, but instead you go on acting like you have a clue. Moron. Perhaps mommy and daddy should have tried a little sign language on you.

      --
      Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
    86. Re:But she still can... by NatasRevol · · Score: 1

      So this girl is better than others who use ASL?

      What happens if she drops her iPad?
      What happens if a bully steals it?
      What happens if her battery runs out?

      She goes back to sign language, that's what happens.

      --
      There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
    87. Re:But she still can... by Wovel · · Score: 2

      My original iphone still works fine at over 5 years. It is more of an ipod touch now as I have the phone service turned off but it works great for my 3 year old. The 3GS is still getting new versions of iOS 4 years after it was released.

      I agree eventually she is going to need some update for the App. Hopefully the developer can work out their patent issues by then.

    88. Re:But she still can... by MrMickS · · Score: 0

      Don't apply the iOS update until the situation is resolved. Its not that difficult.

      --
      You may think me a tired, old, cynic. I'd have to disagree about the tired bit.
    89. Re:But she still can... by BitZtream · · Score: 1

      No, but it does make you capable of communicating.

      For that matter, you don't really need sign language for basic communications. Everyone can signal things like hunger, thirst, help, directions, all sorts of other common things without knowing sign at all.

      I don't have to be fluent in proper spanish in order to communicate with the Mexican next door who doesn't speak english, we can use all sorts of alternatives to get the point across.

      --
      Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
    90. Re:But she still can... by MrMickS · · Score: 0

      And what dip shits like you fail to understand is those updates may be necessary to keep the iPad device working properly. There in lies the problem. Given that no injunction has been issued preventing Apple from selling the app, Apple has no compelling reason for removing the app.

      Oooh ... you used an insult, that must make your point more valid.

      If its working now then it will continue to work. Don't apply updates and it will continue to function. Its not really that difficult. I realise that from your tone you probably aren't familiar with the concept of not fixing what isn't broken but, in general, it works.

      --
      You may think me a tired, old, cynic. I'd have to disagree about the tired bit.
    91. Re:But she still can... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, because I'm sure there is an equivalent app of this caliber that runs on Android.

    92. Re:But she still can... by Dunbal · · Score: 1

      Even if you have stolen it, it belongs to you. Posession is 9/10ths of the law. You have to prove that it was stolen.

      --
      Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
    93. Re:But she still can... by BitZtream · · Score: 1

      Yes, they can tell them to fuck off, but if the court sides with PRC/SCS, Apple will be guilty of infringement as well.

      If Apple believes that PRC/SCS will win, it is rather stupid for them to continue selling and fighting. By quitting now, they can tell the court 'look, we stopped as soon as we realized the problem' and its likely the court will let them off the hook with little to no punishment.

      On the other hand, if they force the use of an injunction to stop distribution, and then PRC/SCS wins, then the court could get grumpy and make some serious financial (relatively) penalties for Apple as a response to selling an obviously infringing product (its obvious now because the patent owner has made it obvious).

      Apple has been informed of an infringement case, they are no longer capable of calling themselves an innocent bystander or claiming ignorance.

      --
      Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
    94. Re:But she still can... by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      You're mistaken. First of all no one said anything about iCloud. The iTunes app is what we're talking about. When you buy an app from the store on a Mac or PC, a copy of the app remains on the Mac or PC. If you buy it on an iOS device, next time you sync, the Mac or PC gets a copy.

      And that copy remains there, regardless of whether Apple remove the app from the App Store, or how many backups you do, or whether you upgrade the iTunes app.

      Any future iOS devices that you use with the same account ID will get a copy of that app when you first sync it.

      That's the facts. Now what part are you disputing?

    95. Re:But she still can... by NatasRevol · · Score: 1

      Very true.

      My kids had at least 50 signs before they were able to physically talk. When they did start talking, they started in full sentences.

      We used something like this.

      http://www.babysignlanguage.com/

      --
      There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
    96. Re:But she still can... by NatasRevol · · Score: 0

      Still better than you.

      --
      There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
    97. Re:But she still can... by Richard_at_work · · Score: 1

      Why should they open themselves up to potential litigation tho?

    98. Re:But she still can... by mooingyak · · Score: 1

      It was a weird enough typo that I actually wanted to make sure my mental correction was the right one.

      --
      William of Ockham had no beard. The most likely explanation is that it was chewed off by squirrels every morning.
    99. Re:But she still can... by luis_a_espinal · · Score: 1

      Sorry but Civil rights must trump both Intellectual Property Rights and other abuse of process.

      If someone invents something, I don't care what it is, be it a cure for cancer, cure for baldness, or a software application that enables blind, deaf and mute people to communicate, the benefit of the many outweigh the benefit of the inventor. Yes they are entitled to profit from their invention, they are not however entitled to an injunction prohibiting or recalling anything violating the patent if they fail to produce the item being patented. They are only entitled to licencing fees of which can not be more than what any other licensee is paying.

      This isn't the same as China buying a 747, reverse engineering it and then selling it as a C919 to the same customers who would buy the 747. If China copied the 747 and then it enabled China to mass produce domestic aircraft to reach unserved areas while still buying 747's then there is no loss.

      My point is that removing the software from the App store is a "dick move" and should not happen unless the developer volunteers to withdraw it, refunding all buyers, and pointing out where to buy the replacement.

      Doesn't this "dick move" gets mentioned in Apple's TOS as a right, which developers agree to it? What civil right has been violated by this specific event?

    100. Re:But she still can... by lucian1900 · · Score: 1

      But there is no court decision one way or another. It's just one company's claim about another company's product.

    101. Re:But she still can... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Back in my day, we had a thing called...

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_Disobedience_(Thoreau)

      Yeah...so how did Kent State work out for you?

      Now-a-days we've delegated the shooting of simple un-armed protesters to the local police departments.

    102. Re:But she still can... by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      There doesn't have to be a court decision, it Apple looked at the patent and saw that it was indeed infringing. Why would they leave themselves open to being sued further down the line?

    103. Re:But she still can... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      in the name of hyperbolas and long-ass run-on sentences

      If you think people are impressed when you use big words, think again.

      Protip: a hyperbola is a mathematical curve

    104. Re:But she still can... by FireFury03 · · Score: 1

      Android won't LET you sell in the market for a target that came before the one you specified. Stop trying to sound reasonable while saying bullshit.

      Did you actually read what I said? Let me repeat:

      Market allows application vendors to set a minimum supported version of Android. This is good - it means that Market won't let people with earlier versions of Android upgrade to (or install) this version of the app. Unfortunately, a lot of application vendors set the minimum supported version to something very low without bothering to test if it actually works. The result is that a number of working applications on my Android 1.6 device upgraded themselves to versions that only work on Android 2.

    105. Re:But she still can... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Totally not the point.

    106. Re:But she still can... by heathen_01 · · Score: 2

      Why not, corporations are people too.

    107. Re:But she still can... by FireFury03 · · Score: 1

      Then you're in the realm of religion. You know the device you use has a problem, so you assume the problem must be worse on the other device, even though you have no evidence of it.

      Not really. I've experienced backward compatibility problems on Android, PalmOS, Linux, Solaris, Windows, DOS and MacOS (amoungst others). It isn't unreasonable to conclude that iOS isn't immune to similar problems. I freely admit that I have very little experience of iOS, but drawing from many decades working with computers I struggle to believe that iOS is different from practically every other system in this regard.

      No. I mean that the second hand device she bought from eBay would have an older version of iOS on, and she could restore the app (and any associated data) using the iTunes app.

      Not if it was upgraded by the previous owner: If Apple release an upgrade that works on current hardware, but breaks this app, this consumer has the option to avoid upgrading their hardware. But when that hardware breaks, the chances are all the second hand hardware will have already been upgraded, and various other posts have pointed out that Apple do not allow downgrading of the OS, so you're screwed in that case.

    108. Re:But she still can... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't worry, when you graduate high school in 2 years you can move out of your parents' house and get therapy.

    109. Re:But she still can... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      you are forgetting you are a geek, you can do these things, the avg user cannot replace their screen or sealed in bat, to them, it has around a 3 year life span.

    110. Re:But she still can... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are not a good iConsumer. Throw away that old iPhone and buy a new one right now and say a prayer requesting forgiveness of St Jobs.

    111. Re:But she still can... by tlhIngan · · Score: 2

      What law? There's an ongoing court dispute that neither side has won or lost yet, and PRC did not ask the court for an injunction to order the app removed. That's notable, Apple didn't receive any order to remove the app, and the complaining company didn't even try to get one. That doesn't say "PRC has an airtight case and Apple could be liable" at all. It says "PRC isn't sure they can get an order and is worried it'll hurt their case if they try and fail, so they're doing an end-run around the judge in the hope that Apple will give them a victory."

      You don't need to get a court order to get an app removed. Apple has a process to report infringement of apps, and they probably used it, just like Nokia used it to remove VLC and the FSF used it to remove Gnuchess.

      And Apple generally does pull apps when there are disputes going on - like the VLC developers all fighting about VLC in the app store.

      This would still be a story if PRC had gotten an injunction, but it would be all about how big a jerk PRC is, not how big a jerk Apple's being.

      On a side note, the judge very well may not react to this kindly, as it is an end-run around their authority. Judges tend to react poorly to that, this may backfire on PRC badly. Pissing off the judge is always a bad move.

      What's Apple to do? They get a complaint from PRC saying the app violates their patents, and technically that does violate the App Store agreement (since the app has IP encumberance and may not technically be available for sale).

      Heck, I'm not so sure Google wouldn't do the same. The only difference might be that the sued developer might still continue sales separately, though if they were smart, they'd hold off until after the lawsuit was finished as well...

      There's also a chance the developer pulled the app because of the lawsuit. When an app disappears, Apple could've pulled it, or the developer could've. Google has done it several times (usually because they can't code for iOS worth a damn and has had several serious bugs), and I'm sure many other developers do it as well. EA has pulled their old Tetris app and replaced it with a crappier version, for example.

      Nowhere in the FA or blog that says Apple was the one who removed the app. It "was no longer there". The developer could've pulled it to prevent additional damages while the lawsuit is going on (at lawyer's advice).

    112. Re:But she still can... by Khyber · · Score: 0

      "Probably better that you just don't comment on stuff you obviously have no clue on."

      Well, this statement pretty much proves that you don't know what you're talking about:

      "Apple is better than Android in terms of backwards compatibility."

      Apple is the king of hardware and software obsolescence. Backwards compatibility? You don't even get to use hardware 3 years old with anything new.

      "Apple hardware is available longer on the used market because it's worth more"

      No, most people aren't interested in buying used Apple stuff when the equivalent PC hardware is cheaper. This is why Apple products stay on the used market longer, everyone else is buying the same hardware CHEAPER without the Apple tax that EVERYONE insists on levying.

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
    113. Re:But she still can... by cheesybagel · · Score: 1

      That's why I only buy Android systems now. I can run any application I develop and distribute it however I want to.

    114. Re:But she still can... by sjames · · Score: 1

      Sorry but the sensationalism of taking away an app from a child that needs it just doesn't hold water. And the law, as best as the legal dept see it, must be obeyed.

      Now shut up and take your shower!

    115. Re:But she still can... by rtfa-troll · · Score: 1

      I think you need some reading comprehension. The rot in hell was not targetted at Apple, but against the people running the lawsuit who can trivially put in a compassionate exception till the end of the suit and tell Apple about it but choose not to. The relevance of Apple's record is less than zero.

      --
      =~ s,(.*),<sarcasm>$1</sarcasm>,g if any_point_you_wish();
    116. Re:But she still can... by sjames · · Score: 2

      That's quite useful, but won't allow communication with over 90% of the people she will likely encounter.

    117. Re:But she still can... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Get your coffee and re-read your entry. Apple is not an individual, it's a corporation and it's past actions have shown that not everything is about "maximizing shareholder value" but no responding to a takedown notice would mean Apple will take on the liability that could occur as the result of the dispute so instead of wasting anymore legal dollars on lawyer fees the easy options is to take it down and wait. If Apple really wanted to be a d*ck about they could have recalled/ban/restricted the app itself. Which they have only done once since 2007.

    118. Re:But she still can... by scot4875 · · Score: 1

      Market actually allows the vendors to specify which versions of Android the update is compatible with, but unfortunately a lot of (most?) authors just seem to claim its compatible with everything without checking

      In general, if it's not compatible, you can't even *build* the app against an older API. You'd have to go out of your way to write code that was incompatible with the target API but would still build. I'm not sure what you're experiencing, but it seems to be a case of FUD. The only time I've had issues with apps was due to hardware incompatibilities at the driver level; things like OpenGL initialization code that would work fine on most devices would hork on specific manufacturer's chipsets because the driver expected something more.

      If you have some specific examples of apps that quit working when a new version of Android came out, that'd be interesting to see -- otherwise you just have an anecdote that isn't terribly useful to determine how well compatibility between API versions works.

      --Jeremy

      --
      Jesus was a liberal
    119. Re:But she still can... by scot4875 · · Score: 2

      Then you're in the realm of religion. You know the device you use has a problem, so you assume the problem must be worse on the other device, even though you have no evidence of it.

      And you'd know *all* about religion, what with Apple being a sacred cow to you.

      --Jeremy

      --
      Jesus was a liberal
    120. Re:But she still can... by NatasRevol · · Score: 1

      BS.

      As BitZstream said:
      you don't really need sign language for basic communications. Everyone can signal things like hunger, thirst, help, directions, all sorts of other common things without knowing sign at all.

      I don't have to be fluent in proper spanish in order to communicate with the Mexican next door who doesn't speak english, we can use all sorts of alternatives to get the point across.

      --
      There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
    121. Re:But she still can... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And the law, as best as the legal dept see it, must be obeyed.

      Back in my day, we had a thing called...

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_Disobedience_(Thoreau)

      Yeah, civil disobedience, woo hoo.

      The flip side is if you practice civil disobedience you'd better be prepared to be sued or go to jail.

      I'm not saying don't practice civil disobedience, just chose your battles wisely.

    122. Re:But she still can... by anyGould · · Score: 1

      They're trying to tug at hearstrings with the 'can't tell dad she loves him' nonsense.

      They are tugging at the heartstrings, but I wouldn't call it nonsense. Look at how traumatic it is for adults when they lose speech or sight, and they understand what's going on. What's it going to be like for this kid, who won't understand why she can't talk any more, and won't even have the means to ask?

      If I was the parents I'd be screaming mad as well.

      But the better question - why are there not FLOSS apps for this? Seems to fit rather firmly in the "make the world better through technology" ethos...

    123. Re:But she still can... by T+Murphy · · Score: 1

      3) The article says Slashdot broke the news, and now Slashdot is pointing at the article that is pointing at Slashdot...

      Tread carefully. We don't want to slashdot slashdot.

    124. Re:But she still can... by pwizard2 · · Score: 1

      My circumstances are slightly different, but I have a similar condition. I can only speak clearly when I focus on articulation/timing my breathing and even then I can't speak for very long without fatigue. I also have to plan every word I say in advance and sort of "buffer" it a second or two before I can say it. Sign language is not always an option... it wasn't suitable for me because I have coordination issues as well.

      Stuff like this app didn't exist when I was younger, so for a long time writing was the only way I had to communicate reliably.

      --
      "It is a denial of justice not to stretch out a helping hand to the fallen; that is the common right of humanity."
    125. Re:But she still can... by Sir_Sri · · Score: 1

      As said, there are alternate solutions to that specific problem. But yes, it's the broader problem of trying to communicate otherwise is hard to deal with.

      There aren't patent free, and free solutions to this problem because it's really expensive to make accessibility specific software. They can be as big, if not MUCH bigger projects than regular programs, and they require a lot of specialized knowledge and specialized skills to make work. Not only do you need excellent programmers but you need people who can deal with disabilities and design for that.

      Also, it's not fair to people spent the last 30 years of their lives developing and researching technologies and specializing in it to then have that work stolen by someone else and sold for less. These big companies charge big bucks because they spend enormous amounts of money on making the technology. If it really is stolen IP then this kid was deceived by the people who sold her 5000 dollar software for 300 dollars. Of course the patent claim could be complete bullshit and the people filing the claim are to blame. Not knowing the ins and outs of how it works I can't say.

    126. Re:But she still can... by EdIII · · Score: 1

      Why is this flamebait?

      It's true, and not specifically directed at Apple. Built-in obsolescence and shitty materials/craftsmanship only becomes more prevalent year by year across so many manufacturers.

      They don't make them like they used to.....

      Software, especially so. Sometimes it is next to impossible to source previous versions of software, and in the case of protected software, activate it again.

    127. Re:But she still can... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I find myself strangely unwilling to pay the price attached to an iPad, so I suppose you've got a point there.

    128. Re:But she still can... by EdIII · · Score: 1

      Your rant aside, is wanting corporations to stand up for us, sometimes with disobedience, really all that unreasonable?

      Corporations generally have far more power and influence. If we consider them people, we might consider them something like action super heroes. Don't laugh... think about it.

      The rest of us are just the little villagers and peons that are oppressed and seeking justice from above. Our heroes fly about above us with immense power.... and.... need to consult ye old lawyer, ye old publicist, ye old marketing department, etc. and hover above us saying, "Yeah... sorry about that. You see I can't risk standing up for you this time. Too many legal liabilities and whatnot. You understand right?"

      What if Superman gave up because Lex Luthor kept kicking his ass in civil court?

      I do want corporations like Apple to take a stand, and take a risk, to do something that would clearly be in the interests of the people for once. Why does it always have to be about shareholder value and strongly tied to profit?

      Corporations don't exist in a vacuum. Without the prosperous and free society around them they will die just as quickly. It is quite reasonable to want them to be socially responsible, participate in the communities around them, and to actually act like they give a shit about us. Not worthless marketing about how cool they are, but actions that speak louder than words.

      Is this really a paper-thin social issue?

    129. Re:But she still can... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why not, corporations are people too.

      No, Corporations have Rights, but People have Responsibilities (and Corporations don't outside of "make money") - there's a big difference, and it's the main reason America is the mess that people complain about these days.

    130. Re:But she still can... by spire3661 · · Score: 1

      4) advise parents to NOT update their medical device. Problem solved.

      --
      Good-bye
    131. Re:But she still can... by sjames · · Score: 1

      Yes, clearly toddlers think in an adult symbol set such that they will have no problem gesturing for driving directions to the preschool!

      When she is older, that may be more practical, but would still lack the precision of a speech synth that she has been using long enough that the motions involved are orchestrated by the speech centers of her brain.

    132. Re:But she still can... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't get me wrong, I'm up for a bit of civil disobedience myself. But we really don't want to be encouraging corporations to disobey the law, now do we.

      Dude, this is Slashdot. In here, we do want that, because, in the name of hyperbolas and long-ass run-on sentences, every parental legal squable or debatable issue must be equated with a civil rights issue, which is necessary for the self-appointed avant-gard-wannabe emotic quasi-intelligentsia to raise themselves into an emotional furor as they seek paper-thin social issues to be upset about.

      Logic and common sense are just obstacles for the local e-rebel seeking a cause to fight for to the point of oh-lookatme self e-immolation. Don't think normal, as it will inevitable make you confused in this wicked place.

      I'm positive I'll get a whoosh for this, but I have to ask anyway - that long run-on sentence and the hyperbole that it included was deliberately ironic right?

    133. Re:But she still can... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I find myself strangely unwilling to pay the price attached to an iPad, so I suppose you've got a point there.

      Unfortunately, so did the b&st&rd who stole my brother's iPad :-(

    134. Re:But she still can... by sjames · · Score: 1

      That seems to be a general problem with 'medical devices'. I can understand to some extent with life critical implants such as a pacemaker, but it happens even where there is no special risk. It's like the $10,000 balance board for physical therapy that can be fully replaced by a $300 Wii setup.

      In hurricane prone areas there are special laws for prosecuting contractors and building suppliers who gouge, but in the medical world, gouging is S.O.P.

    135. Re:But she still can... by SJHillman · · Score: 1

      What he's saying is that if the app is built for 2.2 or later, the vendor may still market it in the store as compatible with all versions. So it will still show up and allow you to purchase/download it even if you're running 2.1. It's nothing to do with the API, it's all about vendors not taking advantage of the market's ability to not sell to incompatible OS versions.

    136. Re:But she still can... by sjames · · Score: 1

      Whoever commands the device owns it. If Apple can command my device to delete content against my wishes, they are the real owner.

      Were the device MINE, it would do no such thing. Apple might ask *ME* to tell my device to delete the content, it might even insist and back it up with legal action, but the device will do what *I* say and nothing else.

    137. Re:But she still can... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, people.. Psychopathic people we would lock away for the rest of their natural lives if they didn't have all that money to corrupt our democratic system.

    138. Re:But she still can... by toriver · · Score: 1

      Apple are "better safe than sorry": If PRC wins they would aim their sights on a certain Cupertino-based, filthy rich corporation, that helped distributing the infringing app.

      What the app makers should do is release the app in a different country's app store in the 90% of the world where the stupid idea of a software patent has been laughed at. Then the users can get an account there and update it at their leisure.

    139. Re:But she still can... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "What's Apple to do? They get a complaint from PRC saying the app violates their patents, and technically that does violate the App Store agreement (since the app has IP encumberance and may not technically be available for sale)."

      Perhaps they could just respond with "please send the document containing the court's ruling that this app violates your patent", we would then happily remove it from our store. A simplistic "it violates our patent because WE say so" shouldn't be sufficient.

    140. Re:But she still can... by toriver · · Score: 1

      Any housewife with a bread knife has the ability to murder you. So far, more house wives have murdered than Apples have removed apps from devices. VLC sits nicely on my iPhone and in my iTunes, and if I want to be safe I can make a copy outside of iTunes' reach.

    141. Re:But she still can... by crossword.bob · · Score: 1

      Apple is better than Android in terms of backwards compatibility.

      Really? In the update from Android Honeycomb to ICS, I had a grand total of one app that had a problem. Every minor version update for iOS has killed at least two or three things for me, some of which are never actually fixed by their vendors.

      ...and your sample size of one user proves what, exactly?

    142. Re:But she still can... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm not touching you... I'm not touching you... Grow the fuck up.

    143. Re:But she still can... by FatAlb3rt · · Score: 1

      If the law "must be obeyed", then why didn't they force an uninstall?

      [snark enabled] Oh, because Apple made the decision. Somebody get this guy some knee pads.

    144. Re:But she still can... by CohibaVancouver · · Score: 1

      You have to prove that it was stolen

      I work for a company that recovers 100+ stolen laptops per week. I can assure you're we're quite good at 'proving that it was stolen.'

    145. Re:But she still can... by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 1

      "Permit me to issue and control the software of the device and I care not who makes its hardware."
       

      --
      My God, it's Full of Source!
      OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
    146. Re:But she still can... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      At least 21 posts in this thread. Shut the fuck up already; nobody has that much worthwhile to say. Particularly not an Apple white knight.

    147. Re:But she still can... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > What something is worth is what someone is willing to pay. Nothing more, nothing less.

      That's not how valuation works.

    148. Re:But she still can... by Rich0 · · Score: 1

      Definitely the case. I was faced with potentially having to buy an assistive device for somebody and it was the same story.

      The issue is that insurance won't pay a dime unless it is FDA approved, and the FDA won't approve it unless it has been demonstrated to actually result in better outcomes in a clinical trial. So, an application that might cost a few thousand dollars to develop ends up costing hundreds of thousands of dollars to develop.

      Oh, and the FDA won't approve it if it is a general-purpose device. So, even if it comes on an iPad or Mac or whatever you'll find everything locked down and all the general functionality disabled. Wouldn't want people using their find-a-shape software to compose emails or facebook posts or anything like that - it was intended to talk like a robot and by golly that is what you're going to use it for!

      In the end it just wasn't worth it in the particular case I was looking at - there just wasn't much benefit. If there was I'd have been sorely tempted to just clone the hard drive on the thing - it was a 5-year-old macbook.

    149. Re:But she still can... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm sure the employees actually need their salary to pay their bills and mortgages too.
      Or maybe you want to work for free, because I'm sure there's someone using your company's product who would rather not pay.

    150. Re:But she still can... by chrismcb · · Score: 1

      Back in my day, we had a thing called... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_Disobedience_(Thoreau)

      So let me get this straight... You want a company that relies on the existence of patents, to be disobey a patent law? I don't ever see that happening.

    151. Re:But she still can... by chrismcb · · Score: 1

      which gets you back to discussion on the broken patent system. Another reason why we say it is broken is because it artificially inflates market prices and prevents the decimation of technology that was previously only available to the richest few.

      Are you saying it artificially inflates prices because the inventor has a short term monopoly?
      And are you saying, screw the inventor, let anyone and everyone sell the product, because obviously it is better for civilization as a whole? Except when inventors realize they can't feed themselves so they stop inventing?

    152. Re:But she still can... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I wonder why you don't own what you buy anymore.

    153. Re:But she still can... by sjames · · Score: 1

      There seems to be plenty of blame to go around. The insurance companies are shooting themselves in the foot by demanding the high ticket items when they could be paying out a lot less. The FDA needs to get a sense of proportion and learn the principles of risk management.

    154. Re:But she still can... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They did (and still do) teach her sign language: http://niederfamily.blogspot.be/p/our-communicationaac-journey.html And teaching to sign may not cost anything if you already know sign, but if you don't you'll either need to take classes, or find resources (some are free, some are not). I agree with you that sign language is an alternative for them, but it has some obvious disadvantages.

    155. Re:But she still can... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think he got lost on the way to reddit.

    156. Re:But she still can... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Is it just me, the guy who doesn't own an Iphone or Android, or does doing critical computing on software that has an unstable business model and sleazy history, make about as much sense as... well...damn what a bunch of idiots!

    157. Re:But she still can... by catmistake · · Score: 1

      ... Apple has a process to report infringement of apps, and they probably used it, just like Nokia used it to remove VLC ...

      And Apple generally does pull apps when there are disputes going on - like the VLC developers all fighting about VLC in the app store.

      It was just one guy, Rémi Denis-Courmont, a VLC contributor who was also a Nokia employee, that, without the backing of The VideoLAN dev community, single-handedly convinced Apple to pull the VLC app from AppStore.

    158. Re:But she still can... by Apothem · · Score: 1

      I would like to think that disobedience against IP law could come in the form of abusing the courts to bully consumers as well.

    159. Re:But she still can... by milkmage · · Score: 1

      the apps that I bought for the first iphone still work on the 4S i carry now despite not having been updated in a while (some of them at least)

      I'm not familiar with Apple's software, would this restore the exact OS version you were using along with any apps even if they have been withdrawn from the appstore?

      the OS doesn't matter..yes. it's on your machine.. you can put it on any device you own. don't delete the files on your machine.

      back up the phone.. install the new OS, restore or
      back up the phone, plug in new phone. restore previous backup.

      the apps I have are working just fine with the iOS 6 beta. (and i restored an ipad retina backup to to my dev ipad2)

      same goes for macs too. just got my mom a new one for mothers day. restored from the time machine backup from her old machine. even the gazillion docs on her desktop were restored (to my dismay)

    160. Re:But she still can... by Moofie · · Score: 1

      If it's that valuable and useful, then there would be no reason to do any software updates in the future. Treat it as mission-critical hardware and don't use it for non-mission-critical purposes.

      --
      Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
    161. Re:But she still can... by Bad+Ad · · Score: 1

      If its working fine for what she wants right now, what's to fix? It will continue to work as it does right now, as she is singing from the rooftops about how its important - surely keeping it how it is today will be fine.

    162. Re:But she still can... by luis_a_espinal · · Score: 1

      Don't get me wrong, I'm up for a bit of civil disobedience myself. But we really don't want to be encouraging corporations to disobey the law, now do we.

      Dude, this is Slashdot. In here, we do want that, because, in the name of hyperbolas and long-ass run-on sentences, every parental legal squable or debatable issue must be equated with a civil rights issue, which is necessary for the self-appointed avant-gard-wannabe emotic quasi-intelligentsia to raise themselves into an emotional furor as they seek paper-thin social issues to be upset about.

      Logic and common sense are just obstacles for the local e-rebel seeking a cause to fight for to the point of oh-lookatme self e-immolation. Don't think normal, as it will inevitable make you confused in this wicked place.

      I'm positive I'll get a whoosh for this, but I have to ask anyway - that long run-on sentence and the hyperbole that it included was deliberately ironic right?

      What do you think? :)

    163. Re:But she still can... by luis_a_espinal · · Score: 1

      in the name of hyperbolas and long-ass run-on sentences

      If you think people are impressed when you use big words, think again.

      Protip: a hyperbola is a mathematical curve

      Oh well, call the gramm3r police on me for mixing a word in a language that is not my first.

    164. Re:But she still can... by MachineShedFred · · Score: 1

      Because Apple puts out a new version of software, and all previous versions start to pout and take their ball and go home?

      Who's the dipshit again? iOS updates are not compulsory. They never have been in 5+ years, and no update to Mac OS has been in 28 years.

      --
      Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
    165. Re:But she still can... by errandum · · Score: 1

      As I said, NO.

      The target is not in the market, is in the application. Open an Eclipse project and you set your target from the start. If you want, for example, to record sound from the bluetooth set you need to set 2.3 in order to get the libraries and you won't be able to "set" anything on the market for previous versions. If what you said is true (and I doubt it is exactly as you said, at least for the past year where I've been using the market), the developers did not set anything at all. When I try to install 4.0 apps on my 2.3 the app won't even install, so no, I do not believe you.

      What can happen is your phone being a crap 100$ phone or the app requiring more memory than you can give or even the programmer sucking and making it run badly everywhere (or even not run).

      The problem with Android has nothing to do with versions of an application, but when you start messing with a phone's specific details. Some graphic cards suck (or the drivers do), some have the camera on sideways, some have a gyroscope, half the phones I've touched have a non-functioning compass. Most sensors and cameras do follow a standard, but then there's that phone no one knows about that does not - and the customers expect it to work anyways, even though we have no way to test it.

      Either way, you are using android 1.6. That's over 3 years old. So, back then, it might have happened what you said. Now, it doesn't, so don't talk as if you know anything about it.

    166. Re:But she still can... by HuguesT · · Score: 1

      I like your little black and white world. Can I subscribe to your newsletter ?

    167. Re:But she still can... by HuguesT · · Score: 1

      Don't feel bad. The correct word is "Hyperbole", very close.

      http://grammar.about.com/od/fh/g/hyperboleterm.htm

    168. Re:But she still can... by HuguesT · · Score: 1

      Well, not quite, right ? Rémi complained to Apple that they were imposing DRMs that were incompatible with the GPL under which VLC is released.

      Instead of removing DRMs, Apple pulled the app. Expected behavior ? Perhaps.

    169. Re:But she still can... by HuguesT · · Score: 1

      Maybe not 3 years but the device will not work forever. At some point the flash memory will stop working, or the battery will leak causing a shortcut, or the ipad will fall or take a glass of Coke.

      The obvious point is that other kids could benefit from the app and they are being denied right now.

    170. Re:But she still can... by HuguesT · · Score: 1

      The 3GS was released in June 2010, so almost exactly 2 years, not 4. Previous models are unsupported.

    171. Re:But she still can... by HuguesT · · Score: 1

      Read the article and the family's blog, mate. The girl has learning deficiencies. She can sign, but not well enough to be understood as clearly as with the app.

    172. Re:But she still can... by HuguesT · · Score: 1

      Yes, irrelevant here. the little girl is not in a hospital. Prentke Romich could sell a cheaper, non-certified tablet to families, but they don't.

    173. Re:But she still can... by HuguesT · · Score: 1

      You are asking a Federal Agency to get a grip ? Like this could ever happen ?

    174. Re:But she still can... by HuguesT · · Score: 1

      Please read the article, she has some learning disability of unknown origin too. The family tried to teach her sign language and is sort of worked but not so well. Read their blog, it is quite nice to read.

    175. Re:But she still can... by jo_ham · · Score: 1

      Maybe not 3 years but the device will not work forever. At some point the flash memory will stop working, or the battery will leak causing a shortcut, or the ipad will fall or take a glass of Coke.

      The obvious point is that other kids could benefit from the app and they are being denied right now.

      Yes, clearly - but everyone seems to be blaming Apple for responding to an issue over a lawsuit. The reason the app is being "denied" to other kids is because the maker of the big, fancy expensive "helper" equipment is suing the maker of the much cheaper, much more effective application - it's a classic threat-to-busines-model problem with the original (ineffective and expensive, but only game in town) being threatened by a cheaper and better upstart. Rather than compete, they want to kill it.

      If they do succeed in winning the suit, Apple has no choice either way. They have simply pulled the app pending the outcome as a precaution. They haven't done any remote deletion though.

    176. Re:But she still can... by catmistake · · Score: 1

      Well, not quite, right ? Rémi complained to Apple that they were imposing DRMs that were incompatible with the GPL under which VLC is released.

      Instead of removing DRMs, Apple pulled the app. Expected behavior ? Perhaps.

      I would say that "complained" is understating immensly what he did. He launched a full campaign, which in and of itself would be impressive if the results didn't suck so tremendously.

    177. Re:But she still can... by deathguppie · · Score: 1

      As I said before, my wife is an SLP. She works with children that have communications issues. Many children with Downs Syndrome, or acute autism do not have the developmental ability to comprehend or learn sign language. The pictures are much easier to understand and for many of them it is the only way that they can learn to communicate. The boards are customized by the SLP to fit the child's needs and will only show them things they can understand and or learn. That is why they are so valuable.

      --
      once more into the breach
    178. Re:But she still can... by FireFury03 · · Score: 1

      Either way, you are using android 1.6. That's over 3 years old. So, back then, it might have happened what you said. Now, it doesn't, so don't talk as if you know anything about it.

      So you're saying that backward compatibility is handled perfectly so long as everyone upgrades regularly?

    179. Re:But she still can... by jpate · · Score: 1

      Sign language is a full language just as any spoken language is, and so learning sign language is exactly like learning a foreign language. Are you sure you taught your children sign language and not just some hand signals?

    180. Re:But she still can... by errandum · · Score: 1

      No, I'm saying that for the past 2 years (almost) you cannot do that.

      It's like me saying iOS can't handle 3G, send MMS's, GPS or screen resolutions higher than 240x320.

      And the whole scenario you explained is, almost certainly, false because a market application cannot be installed to devices that are below the target API level when compiled. That's a fact that I just confirmed after your whole speech, so, please, just shut up already. You ARE wrong.

    181. Re:But she still can... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're both wrong. It was released in 2009 (iPhone 4 in 2010, 4S in 2011). So it should be at its 3-year end of life about right now. I was actually stunned to learn that it will support iOS 6, albeit with a reduced set of features. I suppose that's only because they're still selling it through some carriers as a cheapie iPhone.

    182. Re:But she still can... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Watch her videos. She has several neuro muscular issues which would make sign langauge difficult (she tends to "jerk" often). She's such a smart little girl. She understand everything said to her and desperately wants to communicate.

    183. Re:But she still can... by mean+pun · · Score: 1

      As an Android developer, I have made this mistake myself. My app uses the Bluetooth API to listen to external GPSes, but can also run on 1.6, where this API is not present. I do this by carefully checking that the required API is there before using it. Google even has some documentation on how to do this.

      However, it is easy as a developer to make a mistake in this. Forget to do the necessary checks in one place, and your app crashes on 1.6. So for every new release you must carefully check that it runs on every version. Guess what: not every developer will do that religiously, especially if all he did was change something completely unrelated. In my case I fortunately caught the problem before a new release because I have a 1.6 device myself that I use semi-regularly, but it is far to easy to overlook this. Far, far, to easy.

      Now of course you can label me and everyone else who makes this mistake a bad programmer, but that doesn't change the fact that this happens, and I suspect it happens pretty often.

    184. Re:But she still can... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In his defense, his user name /is/ mickey the idiot

    185. Re:But she still can... by hobarrera · · Score: 1

      If this is true, then GPs point is even more invalid; the company should not sign the application for it to run on ~100 devices if it's deemed illegal.

  2. Still there if you already have it by yabos · · Score: 4, Informative

    An app being yanked from the AppStore doesn't mean it gets removed from your device.

    1. Re:Still there if you already have it by Kurlon · · Score: 4, Informative

      Depends on the level of yank Apple applies. They do have a remote kill option as noted in the past.

    2. Re:Still there if you already have it by theodp · · Score: 1

      For now, but the parents' fear is what the future will bring. Will the app be remotely revoked? Will it be compatible with future devices and versions of iOS? Will there be any support/enhancements for the app (no App Store presence presumably means no bug fixes or enhancements)? Also, while the app is there currently for Dana, it's not available any longer for others who could benefit from it.

    3. Re:Still there if you already have it by SJHillman · · Score: 3, Informative

      It's still on the device, but they're worries that they won't be able to get app updates and that an iOS update may break the app

    4. Re:Still there if you already have it by BasilBrush · · Score: 3, Informative

      Which is there for use in a hypothetical malware situation. As yet it's apparently never been or needed to be used. And it certainly hasn't been used in this case.

      So it's irrelevant to this discussion. She still has the app.

    5. Re:Still there if you already have it by BasilBrush · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Will she get cancer? Will she get knocked down by a bus? Will a meteorite hit the house?

      Also, while the app is there currently for Dana, it's not available any longer for others who could benefit from it.

      This is not the only product on the market. It just happens to be the one she chose.

      Cut the supermarket tabloid emotional sensationalism.

    6. Re:Still there if you already have it by MachineShedFred · · Score: 1

      So don't apply the optional iOS updates. Fixed!

      --
      Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
    7. Re:Still there if you already have it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ACs don't bother. You're filtered. I don't even know you're there.

      Can you hear me now?

    8. Re:Still there if you already have it by jeff4747 · · Score: 1

      Because devices never break or wear out.

    9. Re:Still there if you already have it by BitZtream · · Score: 1

      And when was that used in the past?

      Perhaps you're confusing Google and Amazon with Apple?

      --
      Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
    10. Re:Still there if you already have it by scot4875 · · Score: 2

      This case is a perfect example of why having a walled garden as the *only* delivery mechanism for software on a device is a bad idea, and is bad for customers.

      You can argue on and on about why/how this won't actually affect this particular user, but the whole thing wouldn't even matter if there were an "allow untrusted sources" checkbox somewhere in the iOS settings. Yet you, and Apple, still try to claim that this lack-of-a-feature is actually a feature.

      Enjoy those shackles. They're going to keep getting tighter. They'll be nice and padded, because Apple is a kind master, but as soon as they can lock everything down completely, you'll never get to take them off.

      --Jeremy

      --
      Jesus was a liberal
    11. Re:Still there if you already have it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh my gosh! Why don't these companies think of the children?

    12. Re:Still there if you already have it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So don't update it and treat it as a single-purpose tool.

    13. Re:Still there if you already have it by toriver · · Score: 1

      But the app maker is unlikely to make it for e.g. Android, since Android users famously do not pay for their software.

    14. Re:Still there if you already have it by BasilBrush · · Score: 0

      Enjoy your paranoia.

      I'll enjoy my superior products.

    15. Re:Still there if you already have it by makomk · · Score: 1

      As soon as the iPad has a hardware problem and needs to go in for repair, or a software problem and needs to be reloaded, that optional iOS update becomes impossible to avoid. Apple have some very effective protection against OS downgrades or even just reloading the same outdated OS version on the iPad.

  3. Side Loading by Nerdfest · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Don't you wish you could just decide for yourself what you could were allowed to install on your device?

    1. Re:Side Loading by jbeaupre · · Score: 2, Insightful

      No. I don't need to wish. Nor do I need to wish to reflash with 3rd party firmware. Or wish to run ad filtering software. Or wish to modify program access limits. Or wish to over/under clock my device. Or ... or ... or.

      Wishing is for people who can't.

      No, my wish is for ICS firmware to be released for my device.

      --
      The world is made by those who show up for the job.
    2. Re:Side Loading by Nerdfest · · Score: 1

      Of course, I also wish I "could were allowed" to haz a grammar, or read my posts before I submitted them.

    3. Re:Side Loading by Cow+Jones · · Score: 1

      Do you also wish that's, that you, you had, you'd, you would, you could, you do, you wi-, you once, you, you could do so, you, you do, you could, you, you want, you want them to do you so much you could do anything?

      Amazingly on topic in a story about speech impaired toddlers...

      I'm going to hell.

      --

      Ah, arrogance and stupidity, all in the same package. How efficient of you. -- Londo Mollari
    4. Re:Side Loading by GNUALMAFUERTE · · Score: 2

      I sacrificed video recording, camera, hardware acceleration, gps, and some other stuff when Samsung forgot about my device. The Galaxy S never reached South America. I had to settle for a Galaxy 5. When one day, my carrier publishes that it's available now. They sent me the device. It looks like a Galaxy S, performs like a Galaxy S, the box says Galaxy S, etc. But it's not a Galaxy S, It's a Galaxy SL (i9003 instead of i9000). For some stupid reason Samsung made a device that is actually a bit better than the Galaxy S (The i9003 is just as powerfull as the S, but has a better battery, and Super Clear LCD, which I prefer), but the hardware inside is closer to some motorola models than to the Galaxy S. They didn't bother telling anyone. I couldn't use any of the Galaxy S upgrades. My phone never received a single update. ICS was release about a month after my carrier (Claro) started selling the "Galaxy S", and I was still on Froyo. Of course, I relied on the community. I updated to Gingerbread, while losing video recording, and to the first ICS alpha losing just about everything else. Now it's been several months since I upgraded to ICS, and everything is working (apart from video recording, which probably never will, and hardware accelerated video playback, but software playback works at full framerate with this hardware up to 480p).

      The same happened to every smartphone I have owned since my first Motorola A1200 back in 2005.

      Don't wait for the manufacturer, chances are, if your device has enough users, there's a community project you can download and contribute to: forums.xda-developers.com. CyanogenMOD9 FTW.

      --
      WTF am I doing replying to an AC at 5 A.M on a Friday night?
    5. Re:Side Loading by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Don't you wish you could just decide for yourself what you could were allowed to install on your device?

      I don't need to wish for that - I have a blackberry. RIM has no restrictions on what apps I install on MY device. I bought it, it belongs to me. I decide what to do with it.

      Steve Jobs may be dead, but Apple remains a dictatorship.

    6. Re:Side Loading by hobarrera · · Score: 1

      The Galaxy S, and Galaxy S II are pretty common in Argentina, so you shouldn't just generalize and say "South America".

    7. Re:Side Loading by Renderer+of+Evil · · Score: 1

      Don't you wish you could just decide for yourself what you could were allowed to install on your device?

      You don't need to wish. Any developer can provision own devices to sideload any apps they choose, they just can't sell it on the App Store without approval, which is entirely within Apple's rights. It's their house.

      The original article is a giant appeal to emotion. I'm sympathetic to author's cause, but assuming that SfY was previously on the App Store it means it can continue to live on locally provisioned iOS devices.

      From here the argument is entirely legal and has fuckall to do with freedom.

    8. Re:Side Loading by jbeaupre · · Score: 1

      I would love to take your advice. My phone is an i9003 too. I didn't realize ICS was this far along for it. It's been a neglected platform.

      I've had fun bricking and recovering my Samsung. My company bought it for me. But it was the Chinese version. Doesn't play nice with Google and it's app market. And in Chinese. I went with the Indian version, which works great, but killed the ability to change ringtones. But I can always use ES to write over the original ringtone, so all is not lost.

      --
      The world is made by those who show up for the job.
    9. Re:Side Loading by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I wish people would stop incorrectly using the words, "brick", "bricked", or "bricking." 99% of the time, you didn't brick your phone.

      If you didn't have to disassemble your device to access manufacturer pins and/or solder on pins and attach a JTAG device (or other like device) and/or directly access the flash, so on and so on, your device was never bricked.

    10. Re:Side Loading by jbeaupre · · Score: 1

      I would love a better term. But since you understood what I mean, and for all intents and purposes it was as useful as a brick while it was in that state, it's not a bad term. Dictionaries show multiple meanings for most words, and we manage just fine.

      --
      The world is made by those who show up for the job.
    11. Re:Side Loading by camperdave · · Score: 1

      I'm going to hell.

      Don't worry.... there's an app for that.

      --
      When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
    12. Re:Side Loading by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm a developer. So that means I can sideload to my heart's content? Without anyone's approval / Internet access? Explain how this is possible.

      I know I can with all of my computing devices.

    13. Re:Side Loading by couchslug · · Score: 1

      No problem. I don't own any Apple product.

      Vote with your wallet. I do.

      --
      "This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
    14. Re:Side Loading by hawguy · · Score: 1

      I would love a better term. But since you understood what I mean, and for all intents and purposes it was as useful as a brick while it was in that state, it's not a bad term. Dictionaries show multiple meanings for most words, and we manage just fine.

      Because "Brick" is a permanent state (without specialized knowledge and/or equipment to bring it back). When I turn off my phone, it's as useful as a brick (less so since mortar won't stick to it so I can't even use it to build a house). However, no one would call it bricked since all I need to do is turn it on to use it.

      If reflashing the phone brings it back to life, it's not "bricked".

    15. Re:Side Loading by Renderer+of+Evil · · Score: 1

      Yes. You can sideload anything you want.

      https://developer.apple.com/programs/ios/

    16. Re:Side Loading by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Aw....it's okay.

      *pats Nerdfest on back*

      They're, their, there....

    17. Re:Side Loading by Linsaran · · Score: 1
      Well you could argue that re flashing it is specialized knowledge, and depending on the level of 'bricking' may require specialized software that the manufacturer uses. I've heard the term semi-bricked tossed around a bit in the development community so that might be a valid alternative terminology.

      Still I don't think their use of the term bricked is wrong. If the device won't boot and needs to be reflashed before you can do anything with it, I'd qualify that as 'bricked'

      --
      In a bit of shameless internet panhandling, I accept Litecoin Donations at Lbd2oH9QsthD1GfuUXPyka12YxvWJYnBVf
    18. Re:Side Loading by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sadly, convincing developers to make anything new for Blackberry (especially speech assistance software) is going to be difficult, what with RIM dumping their entire OS and shifting gears entirely - if they don't manage some serious uptake on their entirely new and different phone OS, they're going to be finished. (I actually am kinda sad about this - I live in the area around RIM's main headquarters, and if they go under, that's a problem since they're the largest employer around here by a long distance, even after the massive round of layoffs they've already gone through.)

    19. Re:Side Loading by BitZtream · · Score: 1

      I don't need to wish for that - I have a blackberry. RIM has no restrictions on what apps I install on MY device.

      Yes, but no one cares about the 4 of you left in the world who still use a device that thinks its 1999. You're bragging about one feature thats really minor as if it makes up for the fact that your device sucks ass in every conceivable way, and no, other than telling us it was a blackberry, I don't need any other information to know its a POS.

      --
      Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
    20. Re:Side Loading by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Then don't buy Apple hardware. Apple are a walled-garden that they control.
      If you buy Apple anything, it is entirely your fault for buying over-expensive things that you don't own. (First Doctrine means nothing to them, as if they give a damn)

      Apple don't make PCs, they make Apple hardware.
      PC vendors make PCs.
      Microsoft make an OS for most of them. as do Linux contributors and so on.
      There is a massive difference between them.
      Fair game if Apple made just an OS for generic hardware, but they don't, they build a closed OS for closed hardware.
      This is one thing that annoys me so much when people say shit like "Apple get away with murder but Microsoft get sued to hell for adding a browser to their OS" or whatever other garbage morons spout these days.

      Just a shame iPad got ahead simply due to idiotic brand names.
      I can't wait for Apple to stop being the hip thing. Sick of that company existing.

    21. Re:Side Loading by GNUALMAFUERTE · · Score: 1

      You'll love ICS, it works awesome right now on this device.

      Just 2 things you should take into account:

      a) Do you use 3G?
      b) If so, What region are you in?

      3G didn't work for me on this region, so I had to do a very ugly hack: I kept the modem.img from Froyo, and had to restore the original EFS files.

      Don't worry, you won't brick your phone.

      Here's what you should do:

      If you are in Froyo, first update to Gingerbread (as Heimdall for Linux doesn't work well with i9003, you'll sadly need a windows machine and Odin). You'll find further instructions on XDA.

      Root the device
      Install CWM

      That's the last time you'll need a computer to upgrade, you can continue to do so from CWM.

      Then just go to http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1449649, download the latest version (Alpha 7 at the moment), copy it to your SD card. Also download the Gapps zip. Reboot your phone into CWM, clear cache, data and dalvik-cache, install from zip, and install the Alpha 7. Install from zip again and install gapps. Reboot and enjoy ICS.

      Feel free to mail me if you have any questions (almafuerte at gmail dot com).

      --
      WTF am I doing replying to an AC at 5 A.M on a Friday night?
    22. Re:Side Loading by GNUALMAFUERTE · · Score: 1

      In most android forums and dev groups we use soft-bricked and hard-bricked to differentiate a phone that just needs reflashing from one that can't be salvaged that way.

      Regardless, many phones can be brought back into a flashable state without hardware modification. For example, many tablets with Samsung NANDs can be brought back by disassembling, letting the battery deplet, then jumping certain pins on the NAND (usually 3 and 7) while turning it on. That triggers a low-level upload mode. Sure, you need to open your device but no real modifications are required.

      Few devices really brick anymore.

      --
      WTF am I doing replying to an AC at 5 A.M on a Friday night?
    23. Re:Side Loading by GNUALMAFUERTE · · Score: 1

      Sorry, there are no Galaxy S (i9000) phones sold in Argentina. They where all i9003s sold as Galaxy S, but they actually where i9003 devices. The situation is the same in all of South America, AFAIK.

      Sure, the SII or i9100 is fairly common.

      --
      WTF am I doing replying to an AC at 5 A.M on a Friday night?
    24. Re:Side Loading by toriver · · Score: 1

      How would that work? You cannot install more than has been written. I cannot just wish Lightroom onto a tablet for instance.

    25. Re:Side Loading by scot4875 · · Score: 1

      Woo hoo! A developer can sideload if they pay a developer tax!

      That's irrelevant to this discussion though, because what good does that do for the users?

      --Jeremy

      --
      Jesus was a liberal
    26. Re:Side Loading by roc97007 · · Score: 1

      Being from South America, original poster probably doesn't speak English as a first language. Tell you what -- you post something in his native language (babelfish is cheating) and we'll compare. It could be amusing.

      --
      Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
    27. Re:Side Loading by Renderer+of+Evil · · Score: 1

      what good does that do for the users?

      In a nutshell, less shovelware, malware, and other garbage which makes for a nicer neighborhood.

      The quality of the apps on the App Store is a manifestation of that.

    28. Re:Side Loading by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or you could just buy an iDevice and you know, do the stuff you bought the device for in the first place.

    29. Re:Side Loading by GNUALMAFUERTE · · Score: 1

      I didn't buy it to masturbate to it and show it to other people at Starbucks telling them how cool I own for owning it, so, no, and idevice won't do.

      --
      WTF am I doing replying to an AC at 5 A.M on a Friday night?
  4. Don't use iOS by Sloppy · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Don't use iOS devices for anything important. This kind of risk is the exactly one of the reasons the App Store and iOS' close ties to that store, is such a dumb idea to become dependent upon.

    It's not your computer. Get that into your head.

    And if people would stop buying them because of that, then developers would target some other, much more friendly, computer. Then you wouldn't be screwed right now.

    --
    As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
    1. Re:Don't use iOS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Totally agree. Arguably it's fine using iOS if you're just wanting to play some games, check your emails, etc - however when your child relies on it for their *speech* then it's inexcusable to use a device with such an unstable ecosystem.

    2. Re:Don't use iOS by Dupple · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The same thing could happen to software on an Android device. If this was available on Android the same companies that have had it pulled from the app store would have had it pulled form Google Play.

      This has nothing to do with iOS except that it happens to have been an iOS app and not an Android one

      --
      Watch those corners
    3. Re:Don't use iOS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because friendly computers are immune to patent disputes?

    4. Re:Don't use iOS by RivenAleem · · Score: 1

      Use Kindle instead, because as we all know, Apple are the ONLY people ever to remove something from their devices without the owner's permission.

    5. Re:Don't use iOS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You can easily sideload on every Android device.

      Not the case with IOS

    6. Re:Don't use iOS by foniksonik · · Score: 1

      Ah but a developer did write for a different device, a much much less friendly device. Probably one with a several thousand dollar price tag. That company patented their work. Now it doesn't matter which other device a developer might code for, it will become the subject of a lawsuit.

      This is not an insightful comment, it's just a troll about Apple.

      --
      A fool throws a stone into a well and a thousand sages can not remove it.
    7. Re:Don't use iOS by morgauxo · · Score: 4, Informative

      At which point you could either get it from a different app store or just skip the app stores altogether and side load it. And no, that does not require rooting it. It just requires not using Apple.

    8. Re:Don't use iOS by robmv · · Score: 2

      And let me add: don't use hardware that only have one manufacturer for something important. This is something I always tell to some management people whet they try to bring a change to Apple devices in their enterprises. You have no option to switch to another manufacturer if for some reason Apple is not able to match your needs, be it there is a shortage in the country, some ban (stupid patents lawsuits) prohibits it from selling here, ...... and more

    9. Re:Don't use iOS by Cryacin · · Score: 4, Funny

      Actually I was thinking more along the lines of the hilarity here where apple fanboi's are forced to think of the children.

      --
      Science advances one funeral at a time- Max Planck
    10. Re:Don't use iOS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      There is actually a slew of them

      one list is here
      http://www.androidzoom.com/android_applications/augmentative+and+alternative+communication

      There are some that are open source.

      But please, don't let facts interfere with your rant in the future.

    11. Re:Don't use iOS by timeOday · · Score: 1

      But if it weren't a "managed" platform, the app probably wouldn't exist (except perhaps in some embryonic form, e.g. gcash vs. quickbooks or octave vs. matlab) because the developer couldn't make any money on it. Ugh, I hate saying that. But enthusiasm around free software as a movement seems to have faded, and almost all the great open-source applications are old and mainly on servers.

    12. Re:Don't use iOS by UnknowingFool · · Score: 5, Informative

      Did you even read the summary? This is not a case of censorship which Apple has done in the past. This is a case of a legal dispute of patents and ownership. If it was on the Android or WP7 or BB store it would have been the same. Apple will put it back on sale once the developer and claimant resolve their dispute. This is the same knee jerk reaction when Apple pulled VLC. The first reactions were Apple was hostile to GPL when reality was one of the developers of VLC objected to his code being deployed in the App store because he felt it was not compliant with GPL.

      --
      Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
    13. Re:Don't use iOS by kthreadd · · Score: 1

      Patents are a bitch and sideloading would be nice, but what's the alternative? Apple is pretty serious about accessibility and I assume they understand just as well that it's a problem in this particular case.

      We are being told that Android is about freedom, that it's for people by people and so on. If Apple is so evil why do they deliver so much better on average in this field?

      I love Linux, heck even my username is the name of that thing. Fortunately I don't need anything of that, but if I did I don't know if I could actually use Android.

    14. Re:Don't use iOS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      1. Please explain how it is FUD.
      2. I would not recommend Android in this situation either. It also has an unstable ecosystem albeit less so. However the app store model is flawed for critical applications.

    15. Re:Don't use iOS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ..Who mentioned Android?

    16. Re:Don't use iOS by Dupple · · Score: 1

      I realise this, but apple...

      from TFA

      " yanked from the App Store by Apple due to an unresolved patent dispute at the behest of Prentke Romich Company (PRC) and Semantic Compaction Systems (SCS)"

      Those companies would make the same request where ever the app was hosted, wether it Google Play or any other app store.

      --
      Watch those corners
    17. Re:Don't use iOS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You seemed to have missed: or just skip the app stores altogether and side load it

      You cannot do this with an iOS device unless you jailbreak it. On Android, this capability is available by default.

    18. Re:Don't use iOS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Apple are the ONLY people ever to remove something from their devices

      Actually, while Amazon and Google have Both deleted content or Apps from devices, I believe (though, maybe I've forgotten something) that Apple has not done that, they've only stopped selling apps to new people. I Still have the infamous NetShare tethering app in iTunes, even though it was pulled years ago.

      Yes Apple isn't rushing to the defense of an App developer that may have unlawfully distributed an App, even though it's a compelling one, but they are also not doing anything to punish the Apps current users.

      Also it's worth noting that apple doesn't force you apply updates. If this solution is better and far cheaper other ones, and you are afraid updates will break it, then maybe that just becomes a limited app iPad that doesn't get updates, and you buy a new one. It's cheaper then the $8000 dollar alternative that you don't like so much, and Apple has given you that out.

    19. Re:Don't use iOS by unimacs · · Score: 2

      Let's be clear. It's the app developer that's being sued by another company. If they lose, the app is likely history. Even if had been developed for Android and was still floating around on some app site, that doesn't mean an an Android update wouldn't break it.

      If the parents are worried, don't update the iPad. Get another one for general use. The app will continue to function as it always has.

      Before too long the dispute will be resolved one way or another. This app will return and if not, another one will come along that's better. That's the nature of software.

      Actually, the bad publicity generated by this lawsuit may force a resolution sooner rather than later.

    20. Re:Don't use iOS by Bob9113 · · Score: 1

      This is a case of a legal dispute of patents and ownership.

      Did you read the article? This is a case of Apple abusing its walled garden authority to assume the role of the judicial and make a summary judgement in favour of the plaintiff. From the article:

      "Now it seems that despite the fact that the lawsuit is still in court, Apple has pulled Speak for Yourself from the App Store"

    21. Re:Don't use iOS by green1 · · Score: 2

      But the manufacturer of the app didn't pull it. the app store did. With iOS that is sufficient to kill the app. On Android, as long as the manufacturer still wants to distribute it, nobody else can stop them because people can get it from the manufacturer themselves.

      The manufacturer is unlikely to pull their app before the patent dispute has been settled. Whereas Apple has frequently decided to pull apps on a whim.

    22. Re:Don't use iOS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How this got Insightful makes no sense unless there's a lot of apple haters out there today that couldn't be bothered to read anything but the comments.

      Sloppy - must be your comprehension skills

    23. Re:Don't use iOS by green1 · · Score: 1

      Actually this is much different. because it wasn't the author that pulled the app, it was apple who blocked it. While the author can pull the app on any platform, the app store can only effectively block it on apple. On android as long as the author wants to deploy it, there is nobody who can stop them. And the author in this case doesn't seem interested in stopping distribution before the patent claim is settled, so if this were on Android this simply could not happen (sure it could vanish from the play store, but the developer could still host it on their own website and people could still use it)

    24. Re:Don't use iOS by chrb · · Score: 1

      Those companies would make the same request where ever the app was hosted, wether it Google Play or any other app store.

      A request to honor a U.S. patent has no legal force outside of the U.S., so foreign app stores would be fine. Obviously Google operates in the U.S. and so might choose to comply, but then again, maybe not - they have refused similar requests to remove content from their search engine unless there is a court order.

    25. Re:Don't use iOS by webdog314 · · Score: 1

      I think what they are trying to say is that you still have to get it from somewhere, sideloaded or not. If the ugly patent people do their jobs, they would send legal takedown notices to any place they find has the software. 10 minutes on Google would cover 90% of them. I suppose those places could ignore the notices, but why would they risk that? Alternately, PRC, SCS could simply send a cease and desist to the app maker, preventing any further updates at all, anywhere. Which is what the GP was speaking to in the first place. The fact that it's on iOS remains irrelevant.

    26. Re:Don't use iOS by samkass · · Score: 1

      Don't use iOS devices for anything important. This kind of risk is the exactly one of the reasons the App Store and iOS' close ties to that store, is such a dumb idea to become dependent upon.

      It's not your computer. Get that into your head.

      And if people would stop buying them because of that, then developers would target some other, much more friendly, computer. Then you wouldn't be screwed right now.

      How is this "insightful" and not "flamebait"? It's not "dumb" that this girl found a device that lets her communicate better than any other-- calling the little girl "dumb" is pretty inappropriate. It's "dumb" that the company had the competing product pulled while the process was litigated. In this case there were two options-- an iPad or an $8000 specialized device.

      --
      E pluribus unum
    27. Re:Don't use iOS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      At least on Android there's that cool little check box in Settings/Security: Allow installation of non-Market apps. Stick that in your butt, Apple fanbois.

    28. Re:Don't use iOS by sociocapitalist · · Score: 2

      Did you even read the summary? This is not a case of censorship which Apple has done in the past. This is a case of a legal dispute of patents and ownership. If it was on the Android or WP7 or BB store it would have been the same. Apple will put it back on sale once the developer and claimant resolve their dispute. This is the same knee jerk reaction when Apple pulled VLC. The first reactions were Apple was hostile to GPL when reality was one of the developers of VLC objected to his code being deployed in the App store because he felt it was not compliant with GPL.

      Sounds like a mechanism any cash rich company can use to throttle competition for any applications being distributed via Apple's system. Start a lawsuit and bang! apple will pull the app.

      Apple is wrong here. They should have left it up for sale unless ordered to do so by the court.

      --
      blindly antisocialist = antisocial
    29. Re:Don't use iOS by Albanach · · Score: 1

      Did you even read the summary? This is not a case of censorship which Apple has done in the past. This is a case of a legal dispute of patents and ownership. If it was on the Android or WP7 or BB store it would have been the same. Apple will put it back on sale once the developer and claimant resolve their dispute.

      Do you think if a patent troll files a claim against garageband or pages apple would pull that too? How about the Facebook app? Angry Birds?

      If every app gets pulled whenever a patent claim is made, apple would be pulling them each and every day.

    30. Re:Don't use iOS by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      Ah yes, side loading. Yet another of the many reasons the girl isn't really being deprived of her app. Jailbreaking.

    31. Re:Don't use iOS by Sloppy · · Score: 1

      I think it's weird that so many people are bringing up Android. If people had reacted intelligently to this known and widely foreseen problem when iOS was introduced (Android wasn't even on the market yet!) by crushing the stupid idea of hardware-manufacturer-controlled "app stores" then either

      1) Android wouldn't have the problem because they would have learned from Apple's mistake and wouldn't want to recreate Apple's 1% marketshare of smartphones and tablets. (And even now in real life, Android has this problem to a lesser degree than iOS.) But people were stupid so product tying to central app stores wasn't punished.

      2) Android (the current "compromise choice" with probably be best balance between mainstreaminess and nonsuckiness) would be in Apple's loathed position right now, and we'd be bitching about Google and people would be explaining that the other mainstream platform (Maego/Meego/whatever) doesn't have this glaring flaw. But people were stupid so there is no other mainstream platform than Android.

      Don't use iOS, and you get one step closer to things working right. If you want to step over Android to something good that's fine. But don't worry too much about that if you can't handle the break from the bigger world. First: don't use iOS.

      --
      As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
    32. Re:Don't use iOS by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      If Apple think that the app is indeed infringing the patent, then they must withdraw it, because they would also by infringing the patent by selling it.

    33. Re:Don't use iOS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And if they hadn't, they might have been added to the lawsuit as a defendant. I'm pretty sure that if the makers of "Speak For Yourself" win the case, Apple will happily reinstate the app.

    34. Re:Don't use iOS by UnknowingFool · · Score: 1

      This is a case of a legal dispute of patents and ownership.

      Did you read the article? This is a case of Apple abusing its walled garden authority to assume the role of the judicial and make a summary judgement in favour of the plaintiff. From the article:

      And how is this any different than what I said other than your interjection of bias. Apple got a complaint and pulled an app. If the defendants win, Apple will put the app back. Apple did not ban the app. Apple did not go into user's machine and delete the app. Apple simply no longer offers the app for sale. For it to be summary judgment, Apple would have had make a determination on the merits of the case. A court will decide that. If this happened on the Android store and Google did the exact same thing, would you be frothing as much?

      --
      Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
    35. Re:Don't use iOS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is a case of a legal dispute of patents and ownership.

      Did you read the article? This is a case of Apple abusing its walled garden authority to assume the role of the judicial and make a summary judgement in favour of the plaintiff. From the article:

      "Now it seems that despite the fact that the lawsuit is still in court, Apple has pulled Speak for Yourself from the App Store"

      No, Apple is protecting itself from liability by not (re)selling a product it has been informed may be infringing. Google would have pulled the app from its Market just as quickly; that would have nothing to do with Google unilaterally deciding on the merits of the case and everything to do with Google covering its corporate ass.

    36. Re:Don't use iOS by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      And here for example is an cheap one that's still on the App Store.

      http://itunes.apple.com/gb/app/autoverbal-pro-talking-soundboard/id368727888?mt=8

      Though I suspect the $299 that's been taken down has something that neither this nor your suggestions have that makes it both much more expensive, and subject to the patent lawsuit. Apparently the previous options were in the thousands of dollars price range.

    37. Re:Don't use iOS by unimacs · · Score: 1

      What I'm trying to say is that eliminating the app store model doesn't get rid of this problem. If development of an app is stopped for ANY reason, system software updates may at any point break it. Software has a lifespan. An app store doesn't change that.

      In this case Apple is pulling the plug before the court has made a ruling and I'm not sure I understand the reasoning behind that, but the software will continue to function.

      Eventually the developer will either win, lose, or settle with the company bringing the lawsuit. Development of the software will either continue or not. If does, then it returns to the app store. If not, you have the same problem as you would without the app store model.

      What app stores have done is create an explosion of software. This software may have never existed in the first place without it.

    38. Re:Don't use iOS by Sloppy · · Score: 1

      That's my point: the platform has a dependency upon a central authority which may (and in this case, does) sometimes comply with "behests." It reminds me of people who rely upon youtube for video distribution, who then bitch about "censorship" when Google (perhaps even moreso than Apple in this case) immediately folds when presented with the slightest "behest." Those peoples' problem is that they have a single host. iOS problem is that it has a single repository.

      A user relying on an iOS device (or an XBox or a PS3) for something important, is like a video business relying on youtube (not streaming video in general, but one specific host).

      If the internet-at-large or PCs-in-general worked like that, people would have bitchslapped the stupid out of it, decades ago. And vulnerable exceptions to this (e.g. ICANN's control of DNS) are grave worldwide concerns, so that whenever mechanisms emerge to make them more subject to arbitrary denial of service (e.g. SOPA bill), they are fought. The App Store isn't an exception -- it's the same kind of stupid. Let's stop irrationally thinking of it as a magical exception to what has otherwise always been simple common sense.

      --
      As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
    39. Re:Don't use iOS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Don't use iOS devices for anything important.

        Important! Don't use iOS devices for anything!

    40. Re:Don't use iOS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You can't send a C&D order on an unproven case, unless the judge has signed off on it (which it seems he/she hasn't). Worst case, they could do so under the table. =P So the fact remains that this is an irrelevant issue on every other major platform.

      The fact it's on i OS is extremely relevant. There was no rhyme or reason why it was pulled asides from big red being overly paranoid. Even if the application was found infringing, they'd just need to pull the application.

    41. Re:Don't use iOS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Are you high on drugs? Just retarded?

      Quickbooks and Matlab are not on managed platforms. Nor are most of the world's most popular software. MS Office? Windows? Most game makers before consoles came out (and now that's "some", not "most" after they did come out)?

      Open source / free software has nothing to do with "managed".

    42. Re:Don't use iOS by couchslug · · Score: 1

      "Actually I was thinking more along the lines of the hilarity here where apple fanboi's are forced to think of the children."

      If Jerry Sandusky can think of the children, so can they.

      --
      "This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
    43. Re:Don't use iOS by tepples · · Score: 1

      A request to honor a U.S. patent has no legal force outside of the U.S.

      But what country outside the United States would allow this family to immigrate?

    44. Re:Don't use iOS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sigh, another troll who's never used Android saying that it's "so much better on average in this field" (or any field really.) without any proof.

      Android's got a number of accessibility features, some of which are listed here: http://eyes-free.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/documentation/android_access/enabling.html

    45. Re:Don't use iOS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "so product tying to central app stores wasn't punished"

      so product tying to a central distro wasn't punished

      Your arguments make no sense

    46. Re:Don't use iOS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      torrents... Just like movies and TV episodes, if the man doesn't want us to view them legally, we resort to viewing them illegally.

    47. Re:Don't use iOS by Guspaz · · Score: 1

      Good point. Of course, you should also not use Android devices for anything important, nor should you use BlackBerry devices for anything important, nor should you use Windows Phone devices for anything important. Because, of course, they all have the same ability to pull stuff.

    48. Re:Don't use iOS by kthreadd · · Score: 1

      I admit that last time I compared them was in Android 2.x so if it is better in Android 4.0 then that's great. At least back then I was fairly disappointed and felt that it was more or less just text-to-speach functionality. That guide was great to read even if it was a bit short, thanks. If you have an updated comparison of how well Android and iOS handles accessibility I would like to read it, haven't been able to find one.

    49. Re:Don't use iOS by NatasRevol · · Score: 1
      --
      There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
    50. Re:Don't use iOS by jareth-0205 · · Score: 1

      However, *they have yanked it before a court has made a judgement*! They have taken it down *before* any official resolution has been made. Do you not think that's kindof a problem?

    51. Re:Don't use iOS by Sloppy · · Score: 1

      This is a case of Apple abusing its walled garden authority to assume the role of the judicial and make a summary judgement in favour of the plaintiff.

      That's one way of looking at it, but a better way is this: Apple misdesigned the system, to make it so that they would always be a potential party in lawsuits concerning any applications that run on the platform, since they're all hosted by Apple. A cynic might even say they designed it that way, so that they would often have legitimate excuses to interfere with the software market. Regardless of why, though, a flaw is a flaw.

      Even calling it a "walled garden" could be taken as a form of spin. Call it a "single point of failure" if you want to be mean to Apple, or "single point of failure and marketing" if you want to be charitable and also acknowledge the one reason a developer might not be completely abhorrent of the app store. (The idea being, "Sure you could make more profit per transaction if you ran your own store, but would customer find you?" And for that one thing, a bunch of tech people forgot everything else they had ever learned, and said "ok" when they saw Apple do something everyone knew was harmful to the platform's users.)

      --
      As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
    52. Re:Don't use iOS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In this litigious litigious, pulling the app is just CYA.

    53. Re:Don't use iOS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Um.... litigious society.

    54. Re:Don't use iOS by blackraven14250 · · Score: 1

      They don't need to do anything until the court case is over or there is a court order telling them to remove it. Apple just bent over for the patent holders, at their request, even if there is no actual infringement.

    55. Re:Don't use iOS by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      even if there is no actual infringement.

      But what if Apple sees that there IS infringement. Doing the right thing involves obeying the spirit of the law. It's also the way to minimise future legal costs.

    56. Re:Don't use iOS by MrMickS · · Score: 0

      Ha ha ha ha

      You really believe this stuff don't you? I thought you were all trolls but I've finally come to the understanding that the world is in fact doomed. WARNING here comes the clue stick...

      *whack* People buy iOS devices out of choice. No through brain washing etc

      *whack* Most users are not technically savvy.

      *whack* People just want their things to work. The App Store model came about because the previous unrestricted install model caused issues that users couldn't fix.

      *whack* There is no much more friendly computer out there.

      --
      You may think me a tired, old, cynic. I'd have to disagree about the tired bit.
    57. Re:Don't use iOS by BitZtream · · Score: 1

      the app store did. With iOS that is sufficient to kill the app.

      Wrong. All it means is the app can not be sold. Its possible to distribute updates still if Apple has allowed that to continue. It has not been removed from any devices and it has not had its certificate revoked (which would make it stop working for everyone)

      It is simply no longer for sale. THATS ALL. Everything else is EXACTLY like it was before. Currently, you can even redownload the app if you delete it.

      All they've done is stop selling it at this stage.

      As for your Android fanboying, lets remember that Apple has never actually killed an app, however Google has killed more than one, remotely disabled/removed it from devices. Apple stops selling them, Google takes them back away from you. But you're totally right, Apple is the bad one here ...

      --
      Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
    58. Re:Don't use iOS by BitZtream · · Score: 1

      Even if Apple clearly sees the infringement? Apple is supposed to let you keep selling a knock off of Angry Birds until a court order stops them? No, thats not how the law works.

      If you know someone is breaking the law and you continue to facilitate them doing so, you are also breaking that law. You don't get to help the criminal and claim 'I was just helping, he did the ACTUAL crime'. Its a fucked up world you live in if you think its okay to help someone else commit a criminal offense and not be considered a criminal yourself.

      --
      Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
    59. Re:Don't use iOS by KingSkippus · · Score: 1

      You're acting like not offering it on the store is just a minor inconvenience. IT IS AN APP KILLER on iOS devices. Period. End of story. If you're a developer and Apple pulls your app, that means that you're going to make exactly $0.00 from here on out. So unless it was a free app to start with, why the hell would you ever release an update for it? Even if it were free, why would you waste time and energy on an app that has absolutely no hope of further distribution instead of another app that does?

      As for the "Android fanboying," do you have ANY idea why Android apps have been pulled off of people's devices? Because they were MALWARE. Would you have preferred that they left the apps on the devices? Do you have any citation whatsoever of an app that was pulled that wasn't malware? Yeah. Didn't think so.

      Of course, from there, you'll probably go to, "Ahhh! That proves it, Apple is more secure because there hasn't ever been any malware distributed in the iOS store!" But if you take a moment to ponder that a little longer, do you know why malware is able to get on Android devices? Because unlike Apple, Google gives people more freedom in distributing apps in their app store.

      Quick little true anecdote. I actually was going to develop apps for iOS. I sent in my $99, filled out the forms, had been studying up on Object C (blech!), had downloaded Xcode and was ready to go. Except that nothing happened for a few weeks. When I finally got an e-mail back from Apple, it said, "We need to verify your identity, so please send us a copy of a photo id." NOWHERE in the application process did it say that I would have to send a photo id. Nevertheless, whatever, I took a copy of my driver license, blacked out the number (it's none of their damn business what my driver license number is), and fired it off. Another week or two passes, and I get back another e-mail saying that I needed to not alter the copy, and I have to have it notarized. Um... Really?

      All this was happening around the same time a bunch of stories were hitting Slashdot about developers being jerked around by Apple not approving their apps, yanking them from the app store, etc. At that point, I decided that if I were having this much trouble just getting into the program, I really didn't want to mess with the pain of actually getting apps out there on the store. I sent them back a nastygram basically saying that I felt like I had jumped through plenty enough hoops, to either approve my application or else refund my $99 and I'll work on Android apps. They chose the latter option. I sold my MacBook Pro and iOS devices, and today I develop Android apps instead.

      Say what you want about Google, but the process has been MUCH easier as a developer. As an added bonus, you don't have to go out and buy thousands of dollars of specialized equipment to develop and release apps on their market. I don't have to wait for weeks to get an app published, go through any heavy-handed "approval" process, dictated what friggin' language I can or can't use to develop apps, denied approval because my app "replicates" (that is, makes better) built-in functionality, etc.

      So yeah, some unscrupulous people have managed to get a very few malware apps out there due to the greater freedom afforded developers, and Google pulled them to protect users. Maybe you like living in the walled garden that is Apple. Personally, I'd choose (and indeed have chosen) increased freedom with a little extra risk any day.

    60. Re:Don't use iOS by green1 · · Score: 1

      well said.
      Just to add to this. I will never, under any circumstances, accept a device that pretends to be a general purpose computer, on which I do not have full control over what apps I load. This means that at the moment I use only android or linux based phones and tablets, and only ones with root access.
      I have nothing against apple hardware... well... not overly anyway, they're usually a step or 2 behind the competition in capability, at higher prices, and are rarely intuitive, but they make reasonable mid-range hardware if you are willing to pay top tier pricing. But I will never buy any of their products until they start allowing the customer to be the one in control of the device.

    61. Re:Don't use iOS by sociocapitalist · · Score: 1

      If something has yet to be decided in court then it can't be quite so cut and dry can it.

      Are you an American, just out of curiosity? Have you forgotten 'Innocent until proven guilty'?

      Or do you have inside information or even detailed information on how Apple was able to determine that such a crime has taken place...evidently more information than the courts themselves. Your attitude certainly implies such.

      --
      blindly antisocialist = antisocial
    62. Re:Don't use iOS by fermat1313 · · Score: 1

      At which point you could either get it from a different app store or just skip the app stores altogether and side load it. And no, that does not require rooting it. It just requires not using Apple.

      Right, and these alternate app stores are a huge mess of security holes (as is the Google App Store). I understand all of the issues of a closed ecosystem, but after seeing the kind of security nightmares the Android market is seeing, plus the issue of getting updates to devices (which is a complete mess in the Android world), there is a legitimate argument for the Apple way of doing things.

      This is particularly true for consumers who don't understand security and don't have the wherewithal (the first time I've ever written that word!) to do their own research and vetting. If my mom is getting a device (she isn't, thank god), I'd definitely recommend an IOS device over Android. If my geeky cousin is, that's a completely different discussion.

      We're a community of geeks here, so we tend to have somewhat homogenized opinions about tech and openness. For most people, they don't really care. They want stuff that works, that's reasonably secure, and is easy to use.

    63. Re:Don't use iOS by toriver · · Score: 1

      ... but this app will never be ported to Android because it costs money and Android users are famously cheap. This is not an example of an app that would work fine with ads in it.

      You need a checkbox that says: Allow install of actually useful apps for non-nerds.

    64. Re:Don't use iOS by scot4875 · · Score: 1

      This is not, in any way, even remotely a solution for the common user.

      What, you expect developers to say, "Hey, Apple pulled our app from the store, but no worries! All you have to do is sign up for a developer account and pay $99/year to install it or get updates!"

      --Jeremy

      --
      Jesus was a liberal
    65. Re:Don't use iOS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Google can remote-delete sideloaded Android apps? Really? I doubt that.

    66. Re:Don't use iOS by Guspaz · · Score: 1

      It's an app on the phone. You really think that Google's internal "delete app" functionality is somehow limited to apk installed only through the app store? This assumes that you're on an Android device that even allows sideloading without jailbreaking.

    67. Re:Don't use iOS by MrMickS · · Score: 1

      Its interesting that if you make a comment against the hive mind you its flamebait. Oh well, debate is dead here anyway.

      --
      You may think me a tired, old, cynic. I'd have to disagree about the tired bit.
    68. Re:Don't use iOS by morgauxo · · Score: 1

      AND have a Mac!

    69. Re:Don't use iOS by morgauxo · · Score: 1

      They probably would send the order to all of the Marketplaces. If the .apk file were hosted on the developer's webserver however that is unlikely to get pulled until when and if they lose in court or a judge orders it. That would take a while. Also, if it were installed directly by downloading the .apk rather than through a marketplace then I doubt it would ever get remotely wiped like the 1984 novel did on Kindle. Yes, I did RTFA and I know it hasn't been remotely wiped yet but they now have that possibility hanging over their heads and that sucks. As a sideloaded app they could use it for the remaining life of their device, themselves, or the universe, whichever dies first! Better yet, if they have the forethought to keep a copy of the .apk they could use it until Android itself is so obsolete they cannot obtain another compatible device and their last one is dead. All of this being hypothetical and depending on there being an Android version of course.

    70. Re:Don't use iOS by morgauxo · · Score: 1

      No, they would only remove it from the marketplaces. On Android you can just download the .apk file and install it directly. The developer would probably provide that on their website at least until a judge forces them to take it down. Meanwhile anyone with the forethought to keep their copy of the .apk could theoretically install the app on every device they buy until there are no longer compatible ones available. It's just like a computer or any other device that the owner really owns. Apple does not allow any of this on iOS (short of jailbreaking which means you are forever lagging on updates and waiting for Apple to find a way to kill your device).

      So... not using iOS is a good thing. Marketplaces are nice and convenient but it's better that an alternative exists even if you don't ever actually need to use it.

    71. Re:Don't use iOS by morgauxo · · Score: 1

      No, but you don't have to. Just send a DMCA notice and the content comes down 99% of the time because nobody wants to end up in court for sticking up for somebody else's right to distribute their own work.

    72. Re:Don't use iOS by morgauxo · · Score: 1

      It sucks to have it hanging over their heads that Apple very well could pull it. Also, if anything happens to that device they are SOL. Imagine that, drop this tablet and your daughter can no longer talk to you.

      Google can pull things from their marketplace or even remotely kill them all they want. Android allows one to install programs manually, just like any other computer. I'm pretty sure Google's remote kill is tied to apps that are downloaded from Google Play only so not using an app store pretty much makes the user safe.

      Even if none of the app stores/marketplaces are willing to stick their necks out and bet on the developer winning in court they can continue to distribute their application as a simple .apk file on their website. Also, any customer who buys that .apk can keep a copy and install it on their next device.. and the next one.. Even if the developer loses and can no longer distribute their app a user who has become dependent on it can at least use it until compatible devices are no longer available and their last one breaks. Look at the old 8-bit computers on eBay.. that is a very long time.

    73. Re:Don't use iOS by morgauxo · · Score: 1

      Yes, the possibility of piracy is always a bigger danger to developers in a more open ecosystem. I can see why some developers would prefer an iOS type environment over Android. It's the consumers that really benefit from openness. They can't get dicked around by things like this as easily. Plenty of developers can and do make their livings writing for PCs however and piracy is no more difficult there than it is on Android. That is why I want to see locked devices go away. Then all developers will develop for open ones and everything will be available on them. Consumers will benefit and developers will still get paid. If it didn't work that way the computer industry would have never become what it is today. I really don't care if this happens by iOS going away or by iOS opening up a bit. It's not about hating a company, it's about hating crap like this!

      As for your mother, if she had an iOS device AND iOS was open like Android just instruct her never to check the box that allows installs from other sources. Really, if it was buried in the setup menus the way it is on Android you probably wouldn't ever have to say anything at all. That's all it takes. Apple can be as picky about apps in their own App Store as they want and that can keep her safe. It's the user's inability to load from elsewhere even if they do want to take the supposed 'risk' that is the real problem.

      Likewise I think the $99 fee just to be a developer should vanish. Developing for a platform is practically a service to the platform vendor not the other way around. Ok, I realize that not every app is such a great 'service' but they can still lock all the 'fart apps' they want out of their own app store. Who would buy an iOS device if nobody but Apple wrote software for it? This was my main beef with Windows for years and then Linux came around. Hey, look, there is a free version of Visual Studio now!

      It's not that I think we all should just have Apple or any other company kiss our butts and give everything for free. I just don't think we should have to pay a company money just to help make that company's own product better so they can make even more. Given iOS being opened up to load programs outside the app store AND a free development environment I would happily pay to get apps into Apple's official app store because I realize that most normal users will go their first and really only go there for their apps. I'd be paying Apple for marketing and hosting.

      BTW... I've been using Android for quite a while now. Admittedly I don't download a whole lot of games, mostly geeky apps. My wife is downloading a different frivolous item every other day. Most of my friends do to. I'm still waiting for any of us to run into any of those security problems that iOS fans say Android is full of. The worst I have seen is a couple of apps with push advertising resulting in ads coming in even when the app isn't running. Simply uninstalling the offending app has ALWAYS fixed this problem. There are even a handful of free apps which will check them all and tell you which one you need to remove. As far as I can tell just don't download porn apps and don't download things that look like obvious ripoffs of a more popular app and you will do just fine.

  5. Bad karma by mseeger · · Score: 4, Funny

    If the Buddhists are right, some patent lawyers and company executives are looking forward to an reincarnation as a pile of petrified sh*t at the bottom of the ocean.ï

    There is no way they can make up that amount of bad karma.

    1. Re:Bad karma by Chrisq · · Score: 5, Funny

      If the Buddhists are right, some patent lawyers and company executives are looking forward to an reincarnation as a pile of petrified sh*t at the bottom of the ocean.ï

      Or even worse than that, as another patent lawyer

    2. Re:Bad karma by drrilll · · Score: 1

      On the other hand, avoiding patent controversy keeps the stock prices high. Sure, one little girl loses the ability to communicate with her family, but Apple execs can can afford to install that second hot tub. You see the predicament they are in.

    3. Re:Bad karma by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If the Buddhists are right, some patent lawyers and company executives are looking forward to an reincarnation as a pile of petrified sh*t at the bottom of the ocean.ï

      Or even worse than that, as another patent lawyer

      I now realize precisely how we've gotten to this point, it's a never ending always growing pool of patent lawyers...we're doomed.

    4. Re:Bad karma by sjames · · Score: 1

      They'll probably end up as 'hungry ghosts'. They'll have huge bellies with immense hunger but tiny mouths that can never ingest enough to fulfill it.

  6. Still on the device by Bogtha · · Score: 4, Informative

    She cannot ask us questions. She cannot tell us that she's tired, or that she wants yogurt for lunch. She cannot tell her daddy that she loves him.

    This partial quote is extremely misleading. Apple simply removing something from the App Store does not delete it from devices it is already installed on. They can still use the application. That is part of a hypothetical "What if Apple remote wiped it from our device" which has not happened.

    --
    Bogtha Bogtha Bogtha
    1. Re:Still on the device by bourdux · · Score: 2

      FTFA: While she already has the app on her iPad, she worries about the fact that Speak for Yourself can’t send out updates and that new iOS updates from Apple could interfere with how the app functions. It's not about wiping the app, it's about updates.

    2. Re:Still on the device by unimacs · · Score: 2

      It's a legitimate concern and a good reason not to update the version of IOS on that iPad. And if this was an Android platform we were talking about and the app developer was legally forced to quit developing the software, you'd have the same issue. An Android update could break the software.

    3. Re:Still on the device by BasilBrush · · Score: 3, Insightful

      New iOS versions don't typically make existing software stop working. But if it's that important to her then she doesn't have to update the OS.

      Really, we're supposed to be pandering to emotional fears of what may happen in the future? To make an exception to the law on the basis of it?

      Ridiculous.

    4. Re:Still on the device by Anubis+IV · · Score: 1

      That device is no longer just an iPad: it's the only way of communicating with their daughter. If they value that communication, then what they should have been doing all along was locking down the device so that nothing else could interfere with their communication. Business users are familiar with locking down devices and/or only applying approved updates when you're dealing with critical systems. This should not be treated any differently.

      It's all a question of priorities, and if having a stable line of communication with their daughter is their highest priority, then they shouldn't be tampering with that by applying updates before they've had a chance to check them out and make sure they're okay.

      Also, on the off-chance they're worried about being able to install it on future devices, they should be happy to know that you can transfer apps that have been pulled from the app store between devices without any significant hassle. Just sync both devices with the same computer, and the app will be added to iTunes. From there, it can then be added to the new device. I once purchased an app that I knew was going to get pulled (a wireless tethering app, back when that was not possible and was banned) while I was on a different computer. I simply transferred the app's file from the computer I was on to my typical one, and everything worked as expected from there. No geekery necessary.

    5. Re:Still on the device by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ah, there's the key. The developer wasn't forced to quit developing the software. The case is still on-going without a clear victor yet. Even if there was a victor, the end result may not be a blocked -- it could be resolved via a licensing.

      However, for the year(s) that it takes for the developer to get this case resolved? Oops. No more financial backing.

    6. Re:Still on the device by spire3661 · · Score: 1

      Have we forgotten that updates are to be carefully evaluated before deployment? This is slashdot right? I didnt think we had to remind people what updates really are and that they are ALWAYS optional in a production environment.

      --
      Good-bye
    7. Re:Still on the device by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      it's the same thing, the 4 year old breaks the device, they buy a new one, where is the app. Not a big stretch of imagination to see this happening or maybe already happened hence the article.

    8. Re:Still on the device by Bogtha · · Score: 1

      the 4 year old breaks the device, they buy a new one, where is the app

      In iTunes, ready to be synced with your new device.

      --
      Bogtha Bogtha Bogtha
    9. Re:Still on the device by strikethree · · Score: 1

      New iOS versions don't typically make existing software stop working. But if it's that important to her then she doesn't have to update the OS.

      Really, we're supposed to be pandering to emotional fears of what may happen in the future? To make an exception to the law on the basis of it?

      Ridiculous.

      What is ridiculous is the amount of trolling. Since I recognize your name, I assume you are not doing it intentionally... but come on dude, you really expect anyone to believe that not updating a device is a viable option? Those updates are not purely for new features given to you out of the manufacturers good will.

      But yeah, you and the rest of the internet trolls are right. Patents should be deeply respected no matter the difficulty caused and that no case has been decided in court.

      On the other hand, the article is a troll too. Look at the wording of the headline alone. Not only does it imply that the toddler made the app, but 4 years old is no longer a toddler anyways... kind of like calling a 17 year old girl a small child. WTF? And of course, it is the big mean corporation that is pulling it JUST to spite the little girl. Oh my god this world is terrible.

      --
      "Someone needs to talk to the tree of liberty about its ghoulish drinking problem." by ohnocitizen
    10. Re:Still on the device by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      What is ridiculous is the amount of trolling. Since I recognize your name, I assume you are not doing it intentionally... but come on dude, you really expect anyone to believe that not updating a device is a viable option?

      Given the importance of the device to her daughter that she's painting - Her only way to communicate. - One has to assume that this is the sole or overriding purpose of the device. So why update it? As mentioned elsewhere, Stephen Hawking is still using the same speech synthesiser and input device he was using in the late 1970s.

      I'm glad at least that you agree that this story is tabloid sensationalism.

    11. Re:Still on the device by R3d+M3rcury · · Score: 1

      New iOS versions don't typically make existing software stop working.

      Same with Android. But some will exacerbate bugs in the original software (eg, that infrequent crash suddenly becomes more frequent, etc). This is true for iOS and Android.

      You're right that the solution is to "freeze" the iPad on whatever version it is running now--it ain't broke, so don't fix it. However, she may have a problem if the hardware breaks. If she's using an iPad 1, for example, she can't buy a new one of those. And the new machine she buys might have a different version of the OS than the one she left on her iPad 1 which might cause problems.

      Really, we're supposed to be pandering to emotional fears of what may happen in the future? To make an exception to the law on the basis of it?

      It's an interesting point which I somewhat agree with. Under the eyes of the law, the "counterfeit Angry Birds" and this software are one and the same, no matter how much her daughter needs this software. And this is how it should be.

      The question is, does Apple have a legal obligation to remove the software from the store. Keep in mind that, in iOS, the only way to distribute your software and, hence, make money is via Apple's App Store. If Apple does not carry the software, there will be no money coming in and they're out of business. Normally, if I want to prevent you from selling your infringing product here in the US, I have to go to a court and have a judge rule on this--somewhat like what Apple and Samsung are doing to each other. In this case, the patent holder just has to make threatening noises in Apple's direction and the product is gone along with the company.

      Remember that nothing has been decided in this case. It is still a case of "He said, she said." The courts have yet to make a ruling. Meanwhile, we have the very real case of someone who depends on this software essentially being told that they're living on borrowed time. Not a good situation.

      Assuming that Apple did not receive a legal document requiring them to remove this application, I think Apple is out-of-line on this one and, yes, it is a different case than a counterfeit Angry Birds because of what the application does.

    12. Re:Still on the device by strikethree · · Score: 1

      As long as they make it a single purpose device and cut off ALL network access, the option of not updating is mostly viable.

      I'm glad at least that you agree that this story is tabloid sensationalism.

      I very much agree. This article is absolutely terrible. Why can't the actual authors of the app present their case to the public reasonably? Now, I am convinced that they are just greedy people who are trying to steal from even greedier people. An honest argument would sway me but these tactics push me away. Again, it is terrible. No, it is obscene.

      Oh, and cheers that we were in partial disagreement but were able to communicate. Thank you.

      --
      "Someone needs to talk to the tree of liberty about its ghoulish drinking problem." by ohnocitizen
  7. OMG poor toddler. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Wait did the toddler write the app? No right? So the mention of the toddler is just a cynical attempt to influence the readers?

    1. Re:OMG poor toddler. by __Paul__ · · Score: 1

      Yeah, it was a bad summary. That was the way I interpreted it at first too; I wondered if someone had made an app-designer so simple that even toddlers could be writing them now (hey, it's Apple. This will probably happen).

      --
      worldmobilenet.com -- World Prepaid Wireless Internet plans
    2. Re:OMG poor toddler. by mjr167 · · Score: 0

      Not to mention that 4 isn't really a toddler anymore, but a small child.

    3. Re:OMG poor toddler. by Joe+U · · Score: 1

      Please,

      Tell us more about your opinions regarding a disabled 4 year old. Make sure to be as abusive as possible, after all, she's 4.

    4. Re:OMG poor toddler. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      rabid judgmental spew

      You should probably consider drinking less. Sobriety can be nice.

  8. Should have developed for Android by drinkypoo · · Score: 1, Troll

    I have absolutely no compassion for these people who chose to support a proprietary software ecosystem that they KNOW is run by fascists who care only about money.

    I have even less compassion for them if the developer is an Apple fanboy who cannot see past the stars in his eyes, and is blind to the fact that Apple has been bad to developers in general.

    Apple has boned developers time and again by not respecting their rights. Anyone who would develop an app they personally need and then distribute it to their own devices via the App Store is a fool when they can use Android and have zero of these problems. Android already has all the significant functionality that the new IOS is getting.

    Apple also bones users regularly, when they make an error they tell the customer that it's their fault. B&W G3s have a well-known data corruption error and Apple's answer was "buy an IDE card", not "we will replace this hardware in accordance with the law because it is defective". When Apple folded the TIL into the knowledge base they expunged this article though earlier and later articles made it. Apple will steal from you (in this case, someone is really deprived of something, and the hardware was sold under false pretenses because it does not comply with specifications it claims to meet) and then cover it up.

    When you lie down with the dogs, you wake up with disease.

    --
    "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    1. Re:Should have developed for Android by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nothing you wrote is even remotely true. Why the Apple hatred?

    2. Re:Should have developed for Android by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Except android has the same problem. If your child relies on a computer for something important then you should be running free software. Sometimes Freedom is far more important than being trendy or cool.

    3. Re:Should have developed for Android by UnknowingFool · · Score: 1

      Did you read and understand the summary? One company claims that another company's product violated their patents. So they asked the store to stop selling it. The store complied. Unlike physical products, a software product can be pulled quickly. If this was Android, it would have been the same.

      --
      Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
    4. Re:Should have developed for Android by semi-extrinsic · · Score: 1

      http://lmgtfy.com/?q=apple+screws+developers

      If you try doing a google search, you'll find plenty of news outlets (including Cult of Mac) reporting instances of Apple screwing developers. I count at least five different cases in the last three years just by a cursory glance on the first few results.

      --
      for i in `facebook friends "=bday" 2>/dev/null | cut -d " " -f 3-`; do facebook wallpost $i "Happy birthday!"; done
    5. Re:Should have developed for Android by green1 · · Score: 2

      Except that android does not have the same problem because there are multiple app stores, and you don't even need to use any of them to load apps, you can still side-load on every android device.
      Android can not block you from getting a specific app if the developer wants you to be able to get it. the most they can do is remove it from one of many app stores.

    6. Re:Should have developed for Android by green1 · · Score: 1

      It would only have been the same if the DEVELOPER pulled it (which they did not) the app store pulling it on android would have made no difference to people's ability to get, update, or upgrade the app. On Android only a developer can make it impossible to get their own software. Nobody can go after a middleman and stop the whole chain like they do on Apple. (and in this case the developer has not pulled the app, nor does it seem they have any intention to before the patent suit is settled)

    7. Re:Should have developed for Android by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      I have absolutely no compassion for these people who chose to support a proprietary software ecosystem that they KNOW is run by fascists who care only about money.

      "fascists" doesn't man what you think it means. Oh, and by the rest of your rant, I think you probably forgot to take the medication this morning.

    8. Re:Should have developed for Android by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They screw a couple devs, yet pay a LOT more money to a LOT more devs.

      But feel free to only look at one side.

    9. Re:Should have developed for Android by BasilBrush · · Score: 0

      And there lies one of Androids biggest problems. Let's replace developer in your text with malware creator.

      It would only have been the same if the MALWARE CREATOR pulled it (which they did not) the app store pulling it on android would have made no difference to people's ability to get, update, or upgrade the malware. On Android only a malware creator can make it impossible to get their own malware. Nobody can go after a middleman and stop the whole chain like they do on Apple. (and in this case the malware creator has not pulled the malware, nor does it seem they have any intention to before the patent suit is settled)

      It's all very well Android making it easy for people to evade the law, until it comes and bites everyone on the ass.

    10. Re:Should have developed for Android by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Obviously if Android was such a great OS to develop for, these people would have published on it. The fact is, the only people who are saying otherwise are anti-Apple fanboys like yourself.

      There is a reason why the all of the top high-end apps, like FAA certified EFBs are exclusively on iOS. Would you really want your airline pilot navigating through IFR conditions using some cheap-ass Android tablet running god-knows-what version of the OS, where the chart isn't scaled correctly because the screen has a weird aspect ratio? Do you /really/ want to take that chance?

    11. Re:Should have developed for Android by steelfood · · Score: 1

      I'm not sure why this solution hasn't been mentioned earlier: Go buy an Android tablet and find the same (or similar) app there.

      Sometimes, I get this feeling that every Apple user suffers from battered person syndrome.

      --
      "If a nation expects to be ignorant and free in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be."
    12. Re:Should have developed for Android by green1 · · Score: 1

      No, because if the app store pulls it you have to go specifically to the vendor's site and download the app from them, something trivial to do for an app you want, but highly unlikely for an app you don't.

      And nobody is evading the law, no legal order forced apple to pull this app, and no legal decision has yet found this app to be in violation of any law. Apple chose to pull this out of their own personal malice/cowardice.

      I will never accept any general computing device that I am not allowed to load the apps of my choice on to. I am the one who decides what I really want. not some faceless company with their own best interests at heart instead of mine.

    13. Re:Should have developed for Android by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      No, because if the app store pulls it

      THE app store? Funny how the fact that there are many app stores for Android is forgotten about when it's inconvenient. Malware might be pulled from some of them. But will it be removed from all of them? And how quickly?

      I will never accept any general computing device that I am not allowed to load the apps of my choice on to.

      Good for you. Poorer quality device and software, and an environment of malware is the price you'll pay for your principle.

    14. Re:Should have developed for Android by green1 · · Score: 1

      Actually so far I've had way better quality devices, and software, ones that can do things no apple device can do. I have built in USB and HDMI ports on my tablet, with no dongles needed, I had dual high quality cameras before any of the apple devices did, I have removable micro-sd cards, I have the ability to use real widgets on my home screen. So far I have found an almost un-ending number of benefits to my choice of devices, and I have never, not once, seen a single downside.

      As for Malware, there's malware for both PCs and Mac, and yet people still use both those platforms for some reason... oh yeah, versatility!

      NOBODY tells me what software I'm allowed to run. I bought and paid for the device, I will use it as *I* see fit. not how some drone in some faceless corporation thinks I should.

      I will not buy any device masquarading as a general purpose computer unless I can install anything I want on it.

  9. What ever happened to due process by Big+Hairy+Ian · · Score: 1

    This is still in court right? Innocent until proven guilty? What would apple do with Miranda??? /Rant

    --

    Build a Man a Fire, and He'll Be Warm for a Day. Set a Man on Fire, and He'll Be Warm for the Rest of His Life.

    1. Re:What ever happened to due process by SJHillman · · Score: 3

      Innocent until proven guilty is criminal law... which I don't believe patent suits fall under.

    2. Re:What ever happened to due process by TimHunter · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Apple is not a court and App Store policies are not the law. Due process does not apply.

    3. Re:What ever happened to due process by Big+Hairy+Ian · · Score: 1

      But surely as no legal decision has been made apple could not be held accountable unless they continued to sell the software for an unreasonable period after the decision had been rendered.

      --

      Build a Man a Fire, and He'll Be Warm for a Day. Set a Man on Fire, and He'll Be Warm for the Rest of His Life.

    4. Re:What ever happened to due process by Big+Hairy+Ian · · Score: 1

      But they are discriminating against People/Companies & Organisations based on legal proceedings that have not yet been concluded.

      --

      Build a Man a Fire, and He'll Be Warm for a Day. Set a Man on Fire, and He'll Be Warm for the Rest of His Life.

    5. Re:What ever happened to due process by Sarten-X · · Score: 1

      ...So?

      --
      You do not have a moral or legal right to do absolutely anything you want.
    6. Re:What ever happened to due process by Big+Hairy+Ian · · Score: 1

      Surely Discrimination is a criminal Act.

      --

      Build a Man a Fire, and He'll Be Warm for a Day. Set a Man on Fire, and He'll Be Warm for the Rest of His Life.

    7. Re:What ever happened to due process by JasterBobaMereel · · Score: 1

      This is the Apple AppStore, they have never published their complete policy on what can be in the AppStore, it is a privately controlled entity controlled by one company and subject to their whims ...

      i.e. Apple can do whatever they want and you have no control over it ...this is why Apple devices and their walled garden are a fundamentally bad idea ...

      --
      Puteulanus fenestra mortis
    8. Re:What ever happened to due process by v1 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Innocent until proven guilty is criminal law... which I don't believe patent suits fall under.

      Actually patents are polar opposite. If I file a patent dispute against you, the burden of proof lies with you, you must prove your innocence or I win. And there's very little teeth in the ways for you to recover additional damages from me to cover your defense expenses, the inconvenience, the time your product was pulled off the market. That's the other fun thing, while you are trying to prove your innocence, I can get the govt to pull your product off the market so you don't have any money coming in to spend on lawyers for the ~18 months it'll take. Only the big businesses have those kinds of reserves. Even if you do win, you're down a year and a half of income and have lost a lot of market share that you'll have a very hard time getting back since the new customers have been buying from someone else due to lack of you as an option.

      Combine that with near rubber-stamp patent reviews on overly-broad wording, and you have the mess that is the current patent system.

      --
      I work for the Department of Redundancy Department.
    9. Re:What ever happened to due process by Richard_at_work · · Score: 1

      Not all types of discrimination are criminal - only the ones defined in criminal law. This is not defined in criminal law as discrimination. And neither should it be.

    10. Re:What ever happened to due process by Richard_at_work · · Score: 1

      How much more complete do you want, other than the links on this page to the review guidelines?

      https://developer.apple.com/appstore/guidelines.html

    11. Re:What ever happened to due process by MachineShedFred · · Score: 1

      Discrimination is a civil action, and only if it runs afoul of anti-discrimination law; such as the Civil Rights Act of 1964 which explicitly names religion, race, sex, nationality, and color. There are other laws, but that's the big one.

      --
      Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
    12. Re:What ever happened to due process by ceoyoyo · · Score: 1

      It's my understanding that if you're found guilty of patent infringement in the US you're supposed to be charged some multiplier of the actual damages - in this case, the number of apps sold times some value assigned to those apps. So Apple and the developer could very well be liable for more damages if they continue to sell the app during the trial.

    13. Re:What ever happened to due process by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      No. By law, any person who makes, uses, offers or sells something that is protected by a current patent, or who imports into the United States anything that is protected by a current patent, is guilty of patent infringement.

      They don't only start infringing patents after a court has said so.

    14. Re:What ever happened to due process by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Surely Discrimination is a criminal Act.

      Surely not. Lots of people are discriminating against Mexican businesses, for example, by electing to not take vacations in Mexico until the drug cartel violence settles down. It's not illegal to abstain from a vacation, though.

      It's not illegal to stop hosting an application, even if you sell crippled devices which are only allowed to install applications that you host. The burden is on the person who wants the application, to not buy crippled devices which can only install from one host. They discriminated against themselves.

    15. Re:What ever happened to due process by Sarten-X · · Score: 1

      I'll repeat one of my favorite phrases: You do not actually have a legal right to do absolutely anything you want.

      If what you want to do is "use Apple's market penetration to host my application and distribute it to customers even though it is currently involved in a lawsuit and may eventually bring a legal shitstorm down upon Apple regardless of Apple's concern for their own well-being", you do not have a right to it. In fact, it's quite the opposite: any business (even Apple) has a legal right to refuse to do business with anyone, for any reason (except those prohibited by laws, but those are pretty narrow). Here they've refused to do business with someone because of a pending lawsuit.

      --
      You do not have a moral or legal right to do absolutely anything you want.
    16. Re:What ever happened to due process by geekoid · · Score: 1

      So?

      The case hasn't even be determined to have merit.
      So Apple is being a bad actor. Apple can destroy a business simply because someone else claims something has happened with no evidence.
      When the people can only get apps from 1 source, then that source must be held to a high standard.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    17. Re:What ever happened to due process by spire3661 · · Score: 1

      What you are grasping ham-handedly for is the American with Disabilities Act, and no its doesnt apply here.

      --
      Good-bye
    18. Re:What ever happened to due process by Sarten-X · · Score: 1

      And that sucks, yes, but it's entirely within Apple's right to use their control as they see fit.

      --
      You do not have a moral or legal right to do absolutely anything you want.
  10. why not? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Interesting

    Why can't the kid communicate these things? If it is big enough to understand how to use an app, it is big enough to figure out how to communicate such things as "I am tired", or "I want yogurt"... not to mention that if you have a toddler and cannot recognize the signs of him/her being tired, clearly you are not paying enough attention to your child. (I speak as a someone who has a toddler and a newborn in the house) Perhaps you should stop letting technology raise your kids?

    1. Re:why not? by bourdux · · Score: 3, Informative

      From: http://techland.time.com/2012/04/04/a-little-girl-finds-her-voice-thanks-to-threatened-new-ipad-app/#ixzz1xfwxflS6 Maya smiles and gives me a big hug as soon as I sit on the couch, or as big a hug as a tiny three-year-old girl can manage. Her mother, Dana Nieder, laughs and explains that because Maya has difficulty speaking, she often has to express herself in other ways. She is as smart and curious as any other girl her age; the problem is that the muscles that control her speech are weak and disorganized, making saying a single word incredibly difficult. Doctors have run multiple tests but all they can determine is that it is probably a genetic condition.

    2. Re:why not? by Big+Hairy+Ian · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Because some disabilities can leave you mute whilst still able to understand verbal communication (Deformed larynx for instance) although god knows what disabilities have left you such an insensitive clot.

      --

      Build a Man a Fire, and He'll Be Warm for a Day. Set a Man on Fire, and He'll Be Warm for the Rest of His Life.

    3. Re:why not? by mjr167 · · Score: 1

      If you RTFA, its says that she has a speech disorder. I don't know why they don't teach her sign language. I would imagine it would be more expressive and there are plenty of babies and toddlers that have already demonstrated that its easier to learn sign language than to speak.

      While their examples are poor, the point still remains. Speech is a vital part of our way or life. Yes, there are a multitude of effective methods of communication, but I would prefer that my toddler say "Mommy, can I have some yogurt please?" instead of throwing herself on the ground in front of the fridge wailing. A lot of toddler tantrums stem from frustration at knowing what they want/need and not being able to communicate that want/need. Not to mention being able to tell stories and ask questions. I imagine it is mostly a quality of life issue.

    4. Re:why not? by SJHillman · · Score: 1

      It seems to me that sign language might be a viable alternative if the only issue is muscular. Granted, not everyone knows sign language (I've been half deaf since pre-school and only know two words), but in many cases it could prove superior to an iPad app.

    5. Re:why not? by progician · · Score: 1

      I don't know, if I was the parent of a kid with this condition, than it would not be an iPad app that I would use. Colourful buttons, cards, knocking, stuff like that. I don't think it is a story at all. Spend hundreds of dollars on such a device and an expensive software is completely out of my understanding. There are cheaper and apparently more sufficient methods for children with such a disabilities.

      As for Apple, well, that's what you get from such a constrained software environment. If they would have the source code they could use an other device and make their own build. Or their friendly nerdy neighbour.

      This is a non-story, just re-iterating the "think of the children" with some patent controversies.

    6. Re:why not? by CohibaVancouver · · Score: 1

      Why can't the kid communicate these things?

      Because the kid is DISABLED you insensitive clod.

    7. Re:why not? by hattig · · Score: 1

      But this app does let the child communicate with anyone. Not just people that understand sign language, or the specific cues that the child has learned from the parents.

      And if it only took two people to write something that somehow broke 100 patents, then I would suggest that maybe those 100 patents were rather fucking obvious and shouldn't have been granted.

    8. Re:why not? by green1 · · Score: 1

      Sign language is great... if the receiving party knows it too, which works great with parents, but substantially limits the ability to talk to other people who don't know sing language.

      Additionally, some disorders are more than just speech, but affect fine motor skills as well, they make signing very difficult, but can often still use a speech computer or app imitating the same.

    9. Re:why not? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Flash cards. Made from cardboard, with pictures/symbols and possibly words. Not difficult. Not rocket science. Not patent-encumbered. Does not run out of battery.

    10. Re:why not? by mjr167 · · Score: 1

      But bulky, cumbersome, and akward. The artical is rather misleading. She would not be unable to communicate without the app, but rather communicating without the app would be much more difficult with the app. She has learned to use the app effectivly and a 4 year old isn't going to understand why she suddenly needs to learn something else that is more difficult. The article and summary try to up play it a lot more that it would probably really impact them. Unfortenutly, we see a problem and immediatly start coming up with solutions and wondering why the parents aren't implementing them. It's like saying you could make a button for your users to click or you can make them use the command line or setup an elaborate series of menus. All those options would work, but some of them might make your users curse you under their breath.

      But the point is that normal people are starting to be impacted by the patent wars and now a patent has the potential to make life difficult for a disabled 4 year old child. It's not just big companies paying each other billions of dollars anymore.

    11. Re:why not? by jgtg32a · · Score: 1

      Yeah didn't they do this in one of the Meet the Parents movies?

    12. Re:why not? by NatasRevol · · Score: 1
      --
      There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
    13. Re:why not? by geekoid · · Score: 1

      Because they want to overcome the speech disorder?
      Maybe when you break a leg, we should tell you to just limp.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    14. Re:why not? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It seems to me that sign language might be a viable alternative if the only issue is muscular. Granted, not everyone knows sign language (I've been half deaf since pre-school and only know two words), but in many cases it could prove superior to an iPad app.

      And then she could successfully communicate with the other 1% of ASL speakers (or so, exact percentage of ASL speakers is unknown)...

      See the problem yet? Yes, ASL would be good, both would be best, but if you can just pick one, their choice is reasonable.

    15. Re:why not? by progician · · Score: 1

      No, what I suggested that relying on an iPad is was foolish in the first place. While I absolutely agree with the great-grandparent post about the patent system, which I find disgusting, but there are other reasons why using an iPad was a bad decision. It's a fragile electronic device, which could perhaps fit just fine to an adult, but a 4 year old its too fragile. Too expensive if it needs replacement. The battery life is limiting and yes, there are situations when a person can not charge it, even in 2012. So I don't believe that these parents made the best choice for their child and it has nothing to do with Apple and the software patent bullshit. On the other hand, the moral of the story, that don't trust in propriety software environments perfectly adds up what I said before. Even with the best intention from these parents (I doubt however, that the iPad bit was not influenced by the usual consumer craze for trendy gadgets, at least in part, but I don't blame the parents for that, it's a fact of life, that must be changed IMHO), they did not make a proper assessment of their choices before they introduced the iPad and the app to their child.

  11. Stephen Hawking by rodrigoandrade · · Score: 5, Insightful

    He's the greatest mind of our time, very famous around the world, has millions of pounds in the bank, the best medical care money can buy, etc.

    Yet he refuses to upgrade the archaic system that allows him to spak.

    This is exactly why. You just don't trust something that important to a fly-by-night company that sells their wares through the Apple Store, of all places.

    1. Re:Stephen Hawking by SJHillman · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I believe one of the reasons he refuses to upgrade the system is because he now considerings it "his" voice and a new system would have a different voice. He sees at as part of him, which is understandable considering it practically replaces the functions of not just his voice, but also his hands. The fact that it's worked well for him for so long is likely part of the "if it ain't broke" mentality.

    2. Re:Stephen Hawking by bourdux · · Score: 5, Funny

      I would pay to hear Stephen Hawking speaking with a Morgan Freeman voice though...

    3. Re:Stephen Hawking by JasterBobaMereel · · Score: 1

      Most of Stephen Hawkings system *has* been upgraded, except for the voice synth (which he now considers his voice), and the interface, which he can work much faster then any possible upgrade he would have to relearn ...

      --
      Puteulanus fenestra mortis
    4. Re:Stephen Hawking by jimicus · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Historically, devices to help speech and hearing-impaired people to communicate were fantastically expensive. Mainly because they comprised a lot of custom-built hardware that simply doesn't sell in sufficient quantities to get mass production economies of scale.

      You needed to be rich and/or have some sort of a connection to an organisation that would fund such a unit for you. Make no mistake, if Stephen Hawking hadn't been blessed with the incredible good fortune to be a genius - and if he hadn't already started to establish himself as an excellent physicist before his ALS reached the point whereby he had difficulty with speech - it's much less likely he'd have had access to the sophisticated technology that allows him to communicate as early as he did.

      The iPad, however, is a complete game-changer here. It's truly a disruptive technology - suddenly, reasonably sturdy hardware with a touch-screen that's large enough for someone who hasn't (for whatever reason) got particularly good hand/eye co-ordination can be had for under £400. Pair it with appropriate software and maybe some sort of case and you've got a complete solution for under £1,000.

      Yes, the app's expensive. But the whole lot is still a fraction the price of a traditional solution.

      I'm not surprised the developers are in court. The companies who produce the custom-built equipment are probably terrified that their entire business model is in the process of evaporating and they'll be left with a product that is basically unsellable.

    5. Re:Stephen Hawking by xorsyst · · Score: 3, Insightful

      He has the best medical care money can buy

      Isn't all his medical care paid for by the National Health Service?

      --
      Get free bitcoins: http://freebitco.in
    6. Re:Stephen Hawking by kieran · · Score: 1

      Nah, go with Cristopher Walken.

    7. Re:Stephen Hawking by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      LOL! And other great voices for Stephen Hawking's consideration:

      Patrick Stewart
      Christopher Walken
      Samuel L Jackson
      Alec Baldwin

    8. Re:Stephen Hawking by LordLucless · · Score: 1

      The iPad, however, is a complete game-changer here. It's truly a disruptive technology [wikipedia.org] - suddenly, reasonably sturdy hardware with a touch-screen that's large enough for someone who hasn't (for whatever reason) got particularly good hand/eye co-ordination can be had for under £400.

      No, it's really not. It's a computer in a different form factor. The exact same thing could be done with a laptop - and a mouse is at least as easy to use for a person with poor co-ordination as a touch screen, and is much more configurable sensitivity-wise. Look at the list of examples of disruptive technology on that link - the iPad (or tablet computing in general) - just isn't in that class. It's not displacing other technologies, it's simply slotting in as a sometimes-useful adjunct to existing computing solutions.

      If you're looking for why this esoteric stuff is becoming cheaper, look to commodity hardware, and the ever-lowering barrier of entry to complex software development, thanks to freely available languages and frameworks.

      --
      Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean there isn't an invisible demon about to eat your face
    9. Re:Stephen Hawking by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      His medical care is provided by the National Health Service.

      His medical care is paid for, collectively, by the British taxpayers.

    10. Re:Stephen Hawking by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I would pay to hear Stephen Hawking speaking with a Morgan Freeman voice though...

      I would pay a good deal more to hear him speaking with Mr. Burns' voice.

    11. Re:Stephen Hawking by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, this stupid talking point has gone around and been debunked dozens of times.

      Hawking himself has said that the NHS saved his life.

    12. Re:Stephen Hawking by geekoid · · Score: 1

      Barney.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    13. Re:Stephen Hawking by geekoid · · Score: 1

      SO you are comparing to separate medical issues....why?

      This iPad App worked great, far better then the alternatives, and far cheaper.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    14. Re:Stephen Hawking by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I wouldn't exactly call the iPad disruptive. There have been tablet PC's for years before the iPad, for example the HP TC1100 wasn't much more expensive and could be loaded with any software you could make to tackle this same problem nearly a decade ago.

    15. Re:Stephen Hawking by Sabriel · · Score: 1

      Three counterpoints:

      It's not just that it's "a computer in a different form factor" - it's a computer in a form factor that didn't previously exist *at that price point with those capabilities*. Are you familiar with the concept of tipping points?

      Furthermore, the idea that "The exact same thing could be done with a laptop - and a mouse"? No. The laptop+mouse combination is more awkward from a mobility/convenience perspective and the mouse requires an appropriate surface upon which to be moved. Also, user is a four year old child.

      Finally, in the niche that is assistive devices for the handicapped, see the GP's comments: "devices to help speech and hearing-impaired people to communicate were fantastically expensive". Also, heavier and less elegant.

  12. If you're so inclined... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...perhaps Dana should post up millions and millions into a trust account so if/when Apple is sued by the patent troll, they don't have to pay.

    Perhaps Dana should contact the patent trolls and appeal to them directly....

  13. Angry Birds is already a counterfeit by spagthorpe · · Score: 3, Informative

    "the problem, however, is that this isn’t some counterfeit version of Angry Birds."

    This cracks me up. Angry Birds was a pretty solid ripoff of "Crush The Castle." At least CtC authors acknowledged their inspiration from "Castle Clout." Pulling anything imitating Angry Birds is pure BS.

    --

    WWJD -- What Would Jimi Do?
    (Smash amp, burn guitar, take home the groupies)

    1. Re:Angry Birds is already a counterfeit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's not what "counterfeit" means.

      A counterfeit version of Angry Birds would be a game that falsely purported to be Angry Birds, not just a game with similar mechanics.

    2. Re:Angry Birds is already a counterfeit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I just tried CtC based on this comment. It's fun, but it's like saying chess is a solid ripoff of checkers. AB has much more planning and tactics involved.

    3. Re:Angry Birds is already a counterfeit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      +1 to this! And I think angry birds sucks compared to Crush The Castle.

    4. Re:Angry Birds is already a counterfeit by chrismcb · · Score: 1

      A counterfeit game would be a game that looked very similar to Angry Birds, but wasn't angry Birds. The game play would be similar, and the artwork similar and so on. It is NOT a game that plays like Angry Birds but is different. Kind of like how zynga's Dream Heights is not a counterfeit Tiny Tower.

  14. why is this about apple? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This sounds like a story about why patents are horribly broken... not really a story about Apple.... ?

  15. Teach her to sign by Hentes · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Seriously, if the kid is mute she should have been taught sign language from day one, then she wouldn't be in the position of being unable to communicate at the age of three.

    1. Re:Teach her to sign by nblender · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Agreed. We started teaching our son ASL when he was 6mos. He signed his first sign at 8mos (milk). By a year, he was telling us what he wanted to eat at mealtime and asking questions like "where is my bear?".. Even after he became verbal and even today (almost 11 yo) he still uses some of his retained ASL to communicate when his mouth is full or when he's too far away to yell ("Mom! 5 more minutes!")...

    2. Re:Teach her to sign by green1 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      When someone is unable to communicate at all, you advocate a method that allows them to only communicate with select people (those who know sign language) rather than the option she has now which allows her to communicate with a much larger group of people (those who know English)

      Why limit her?

    3. Re:Teach her to sign by c_sd_m · · Score: 1

      Depends on why the kid isn't speaking. My brother is severely autistic and mostly non-verbal. There's an iPad app (not the one in TFA) that he will consistently use to answer simple questions (yes/no or picking an option from a set). Without the app, his vocabulary and ability to express himself are much more limited. He couldn't have learned ASL any easier than speaking, in fact, it would be much more difficult to teach to him given that he barely understands any facial expressions or body language.

    4. Re:Teach her to sign by Hentes · · Score: 1

      RTFA, she has physical problems not mental ones.

    5. Re:Teach her to sign by Hentes · · Score: 1

      Because this app doesn't allow her to really communicate, the only thing it does is voicing a number of words depicted by pictograms, basically it's just a fancy fart app.

    6. Re:Teach her to sign by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And when she drops her iPad and the screen shatters? Or if the batteries die? Something goes wrong and the device self destructions? What is her communications path then? Not knowing ASL is a disservice. Over dependance on technically is harmful if you don't have a secondary means.

    7. Re:Teach her to sign by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think the idea was to do both.

      Much like you probably use both a phone AND email to communicate, the girl would have benefitted a lot from being taught sign language.

      Both have advantages and disadvantages in different situations but the main advantage from sign language is that it requires nothing more than -you-. Any device you might choose to help you overcome limitations from a handicap, can stop working for a variety of reasons (it could break, get stolen, run out of power, ...) but unless you find yourself unable to move your arms sign language will always be available.

    8. Re:Teach her to sign by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What they should have done was given her a set a semaphore flags and taught her Esperanto.

      That's sarcasm, folks.

    9. Re:Teach her to sign by green1 · · Score: 1

      there are many people incapable of speaking without computers, many of them are not even able to do sign language for one reason or other. (often various disorders affecting speech also affect fine motor skills). These people are completely dependent on technology to communicate to the outside world. advocating that they shouldn't use their only practical means of communication is ridiculous.

      You should stop using a computer, because it doesn't really allow you to communicate, the only thing it does is transmit various characters depicted by strange symbols on a keyboard, basically it's just a fancy typewriter.

      Would you also deny stephen hawking his computer because it doesn't "really" allow him to communicate? maybe he should learn sign language too?

    10. Re:Teach her to sign by spire3661 · · Score: 1

      Because its always good to have a (pardon the usage) meatspace backup

      --
      Good-bye
    11. Re:Teach her to sign by Hentes · · Score: 1

      The difference is that Stephen Hawking can write which the computer synthesizes as voice, enabling him to say anything.

    12. Re:Teach her to sign by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why limit her?

      Because Steve Job's ghost can't take away your sign language.

    13. Re:Teach her to sign by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The pool of people that you can communicate with increases substantially through a device. Not everyone understands sign language.

    14. Re:Teach her to sign by green1 · · Score: 1

      Stephen hawking's device is slightly more complicated, but he's also not 3 years old. you have to start somewhere.

    15. Re:Teach her to sign by chrismcb · · Score: 1

      Kids have a difficult time with languages. So it is probably impossible for her to learn more than one.
      You ask why limit her? I ask you, why limit her to using a device?

    16. Re:Teach her to sign by green1 · · Score: 1

      you suggest sign language which allows communication with only a very small subset of the population, vs a device which allows communication with anyone who speaks english. If, as you suggest, she can only do one, or the other, I would definitely recommend the one which allows communication with the most people.

    17. Re:Teach her to sign by HuguesT · · Score: 1

      The article is incorrect, the little girl has mental problems too.

    18. Re:Teach her to sign by 0x537461746943 · · Score: 1

      "By a year, he was telling us what he wanted to eat at mealtime and asking questions like "where is my bear?"." I read that as beer the first time I read the sentence. It required a double take :).

    19. Re:Teach her to sign by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Watch this darling child's videos on her mom's website. She has numerous physical issues and its very hard to control her body so sign langauge won't work for her. She's really smart though. Could identify (by tapping a card) all her letters at age 3. She seems desperate to communicate. It's really sad. And her parents definitely tried the expensive options.

    20. Re:Teach her to sign by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is probably one of the most ignorant comments I have heard. Clearly her parents were "too lazy" to teach her sign language. Probably because they were so busy working on the many other aspects of her disability that are not written about as well as combing through the many, many, many different communication devices available to find the best fit for Maya. There is more than just the issue with communication. As a mother of a special needs child myself, it is not the matter of just "teaching her sign language" so she won't be in this position. It is working on everything at once and finding the best fit of therapies and devices for your child. Think before you speak about something you have no idea about in the future.

  16. Four-year-old's app? by Sarten-X · · Score: 5, Informative

    So the app was written by a toddler, right? No, it was two speech pathologists, Heidi LoStracco and Renee Collender. So it was funded by the four-year-old? No again. So it's the only way she speaks, at least? Nope, just the one she likes the best.

    This headline, most of the summary, and the majority of TFA are an appeal to emotion to cloud what's ultimately a bog-standard legal issue. The app's future sale and distribution has been blocked, just like Galaxy tablets, XBoxes, iPads, and many other products that are banned from sale until patent issues are worked out. The point of the story (I guess) is to point out that patent litigation affects innocent bystanders, but this is nothing new, and I personally find the intense spin disgusting. Somehow, the fact that a four-year-old uses this app supposedly makes it okay to copy someone else's research and development? What about the researcher at Prentke Romich whose income depends on the company's speech hardware, who has a toddler at home to feed? What about the toddler whose lawyer parents are working on this case?

    Won't somebody please stop thinking of the children?

    --
    You do not have a moral or legal right to do absolutely anything you want.
    1. Re:Four-year-old's app? by MickyTheIdiot · · Score: 2

      I agree and I think it could be written more from the point of view that idiotic patent disputes hurt regular people and the progress of tech in general, but again this article is being written for the plebeians, not people who know what is actually going on behind the mask that the MSM puts into place.

    2. Re:Four-year-old's app? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The spin is necessary.

      If you want "ordinary people" to understand why a walled garden controlled by a corporate monolith might not always be a good idea, this is an excellent story. If you want "ordinary people" to understand the stupidity of software patents, this is also an excellent story.

      If you would like to see software patents stifle all creativity in the tech industry, and don't like the concept of people being able to own what they paid for, then I can see why you would dislike this story.

    3. Re:Four-year-old's app? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      There's no real research here, only product development. Putting icons on a screen that make a device play back a recorded message when pushed. Not innovative at all, yet extremely useful for anyone who can't otherwise speak.

      The real reason for this lawsuit is not to protect R&D, but to protect a racket that hurts kids and tax payers alike. The alternative that these companies sell are $10,000 devices that don't work as well as an ipad+$299 in software ($1,000 total). The only reason they can sell these devices for $10,000 is because tax payers pay the bill. Of course, ipad+$299 software isn't covered by these same programs because the state run programs will only buy "dedicated devices" and an ipad is not a device dedicated to one use.

      The BS patent system (which in this case granted an "on a computer" patent) is only part of the problem here. The other part of the problem is state run programs that allow these companies to charge 10x as much for a less useful device at tax payer's expense.

    4. Re:Four-year-old's app? by sociocapitalist · · Score: 2

      The app's future sale and distribution has been blocked, just like Galaxy tablets, XBoxes, iPads, and many other products that are banned from sale until patent issues are worked out.

      The difference is that in this case the court evidently didn't order Apple to stop sales or distribution which would be the case for what you're referring to when you talk about other products that are banned from sale.

      --
      blindly antisocialist = antisocial
    5. Re:Four-year-old's app? by LordLucless · · Score: 3, Informative

      The app's future sale and distribution has been blocked, just like Galaxy tablets, XBoxes, iPads, and many other products that are banned from sale until patent issues are worked out.

      Except it hasn't. The court never ordered the apps sales and distribution blocked - Apple did. This is just another example of why walled gardens are bad, particularly when the gardener likes to take it upon themselves to act as judge, jury and app-executioner.

      --
      Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean there isn't an invisible demon about to eat your face
    6. Re:Four-year-old's app? by Belial6 · · Score: 1

      Exactly. Apple CHOSE to block the app. They were not legally compelled to do so.

    7. Re:Four-year-old's app? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "What about the researcher at Prentke Romich whose income depends on the company's speech hardware, who has a toddler at home to feed?"

      What about them indeed?! Do you have any idea what Prentke Romich's market actually is? It's large scale buyers like hospitals. They really don't sell to individuals on an open market. There is absolutely no way that this toddler using this app could be construed as a "lost sale". In fact, the child's parents already bought and tried PR's products. PR already has the parent's money and you want me to think about their pocketbooks? Absurd.

    8. Re:Four-year-old's app? by Sarten-X · · Score: 1

      Do you have any idea what their plans for next week are, or next year?

      --
      You do not have a moral or legal right to do absolutely anything you want.
    9. Re:Four-year-old's app? by Sarten-X · · Score: 1

      If you ... don't like the concept of people being able to own what they paid for, then I can see why you would dislike this story.

      PRC paid for the research into the speech technology. They own it now. Apparently you don't like that, so I guess you dislike this story.

      What I dislike about this story is the notion that a child using something means it's a noble cause that's above the law. If you'll excuse me for a minute, I'm going to go rob a bank, but I'll be sure to also take the bowl of suckers and hand them out to kids later, so it's okay.

      --
      You do not have a moral or legal right to do absolutely anything you want.
    10. Re:Four-year-old's app? by cdrguru · · Score: 1

      Problem is, if Apple did not block it they might be held legally liable for continued distribution and at least contributing to willful infringement of the patent.

      They are playing it safe. Perhaps a little too safe, but as Apple has zero stake in the app it really makes no sense not to be as safe as possible. If anything the problem with the entire App Store model is that the "store" has a lot to lose and nothing to gain by distributing applications, so they are going to follow the most restrictive course possible.

      Best Buy, for instance, faces the same problem with a boxed software product on their shelf - except they have a stake in the game in that they paid for shipping the box and the loss of revenue. Best Buy has maybe 200 boxed products on the shelf - Apple has millions of application in the App Store so dropping one is effectively zero impact.

      The trade-off is pretty clear. If you want "safe" applications the only way to go is the App Store model as all other Internet distribution models have failed to keep the customer "safe". But you are dragging a third party into the process that has little interest in being there at all. I'm sure Apple would much rather have 200 really good applications than millions - with 2% of them being fart-noise-maker applications.

    11. Re:Four-year-old's app? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't forget Apples demand that you only speak in their language (objective-c), although they latter backed down from that.

    12. Re:Four-year-old's app? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The story using a child makes lots of voters think "Why are the USPTO and Apple acting this way?". TIME has a big worldwide reputation, and it's very heartening to see them quoting slashdot as part of their story. Nice to know that this site counts for something, even to respected media institutions whose influence is orders of magnitude greater than slashdot's own.

      The end justifies the means, and there is no unjust damage being done to any party by the publication of this story.

      Did you know that PRC are claiming that the app infringes on over 100 software patents? If PRC are an honest R&D company, how can they even have 100+ patents that are being infringed upon? "Throw everything at the wall and see what sticks" comes to mind. With the kind of patent portfolio they are claiming to have, they should be marching over to Steven Hawking's house and ripping out all his vocalization hardware/software. Then they can sue Hawking for millions for using their patents illegitimately. I'm exaggerating, but not that much ....

    13. Re:Four-year-old's app? by LordLucless · · Score: 1

      Problem is, if Apple did not block it they might be held legally liable for continued distribution and at least contributing to willful infringement of the patent.

      Really? Where's the legal precedent for that? Especially given that no decision has even been reached yet about whether a patent is being infringed? Where retailers who were selling Samsung's Galaxy S2, before the matter even went to court, held liable for selling a patent-infringing device? Has any retailer (who was not also the producer), ever, in the history of patent law, been held accountable for selling an item that infringed a patent, before a court told them not to?

      Best Buy, for instance, faces the same problem with a boxed software product on their shelf

      And when has Best Buy removed a product from their shelves due to patent infringement, before the matter had reached the court?

      --
      Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean there isn't an invisible demon about to eat your face
    14. Re:Four-year-old's app? by R3d+M3rcury · · Score: 1

      Problem is, if Apple did not block it they might be held legally liable for continued distribution and at least contributing to willful infringement of the patent.

      Doubt it. About the worst that would happen is that Apple would have to pay the 30% that they made off of sales of the app. Apple wouldn't be liable for anything else.

      Perhaps a little too safe, but as Apple has zero stake in the app it really makes no sense not to be as safe as possible.

      See, this bothers me.

      So an Apple developer makes a name for themselves with their iPhone app and ports it to Android. Traitors! After all that Apple did for these developers, they turn around and stab Apple in the back! Bastards! And yet, Apple, Inc.--with billions of dollars in the bank--is afraid they might lose 30% of their take in one app (which they'd by liable for anyway) and figures they'll play it "safe" and cut off the developers' cash flow and it's perfectly understandable.

      So if Apple will put me in a stranglehold like that, why should I develop exclusively for iOS again?

      Here's an app that's made a name for itself--and Apple--among a group of people. They're exclusively Apple developers--there's no Android version. And now Apple has cut off their air supply--if they can't sell their app, how are they supposed to make money to fight this? At least if I had an Android version, I might have some money coming in to help me fight this.

      If you want the appearance of "safe" applications the only way to go is the App Store model as all other Internet distribution models have failed to keep the customer "safe".

      FTFY.

      After all, there've never been any privacy breaches on iOS, right?

    15. Re:Four-year-old's app? by chrismcb · · Score: 1

      What does this have to do with a walled garden, or with software patents. You have the same problem with regular patents. If I design a doodad that makes it easier for someone to do something, and then someone else makes a knockoff and charges half what I charge... I'll take them to court and get them shut down. That can result in the same article being written "Littly suzy can no longer do x, because Walmart decides to stop selling knock off doodad due to patent infringment lawsuit"

    16. Re:Four-year-old's app? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, let's just implement Chinese law and we can all become a-moral. We can copy Apple's OS, their equipment manufacturers wouldn't mind at all. Just copy the Microsoft Suite and give it away for free. Oh, yeah, that's stealing even from Microsoft. Many have done it. Many have been firced to be honest. The SLPs had the balls to blatantly copy and gather steam from "caring parents." There is no shame for the righteous.

  17. I'm speechless by halfkoreanamerican · · Score: 1

    So she cannot speak without it, yet it begs to ask: "How did you speak before your iphone?" iphones haven't been around forever... what would you have done if it never existed... what did you do?

    1. Re:I'm speechless by MickyTheIdiot · · Score: 2

      The kid is 3 years old! There have always been ipads and iphones during her lifetime.

      You might want to restate the question...

    2. Re:I'm speechless by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      She's 4 years old in 2012 and the original iPhone was released in 2007. You do the math, genius.

    3. Re:I'm speechless by c_sd_m · · Score: 3, Insightful

      So she cannot speak without it, yet it begs to ask: "How did you speak before your iphone?" iphones haven't been around forever... what would you have done if it never existed... what did you do?

      Kids like this either found the thousands of dollars for a custom hardware solution or used paper words and photos, which are much less portable (if you want anywhere near the vocabulary available in an AAC). Or they just went through life with a significantly reduced ability to communicate, which is incredibly frustrating for them and their caregivers.

    4. Re:I'm speechless by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And it also made other children with speech problems unable to get such benefit in the future.

    5. Re:I'm speechless by CraftyJack · · Score: 1

      How far back do you want to go? Before we gave a crap about the disabled we would lock 'em in a sanitarium - but they got that lucky if their family could afford it.

    6. Re:I'm speechless by halfkoreanamerican · · Score: 1

      Well, the answer to my own question is that she really didn't speak much at all since she's only three years old, and it seems unreasonable to place the child's entire hopes and dreams of communication in one app on a device that changes every year (not to mention apps coming and going daily). If I built my entire world around AIM then I would be crushed when everyone moved elsewhere if I didn't move with them. A more tried and true solution seems a bit more reasonable when you are talking about her future in communication. I hope they can research and arrive at a solution that will not be outdated tomorrow... That's the heart of my comment. It reminds me so much of everyone jumping on the bandwagon to convert all their music collection to the next greatest thing. There's a fine line between latest and greatest, and that which is here today and gone tomorrow. I think they gambled wrong. My original question was not very well communicated. Thanks.

    7. Re:I'm speechless by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So she cannot speak without it, yet it begs to ask: "How did you speak before your iphone?" iphones haven't been around forever... what would you have done if it never existed... what did you do?

      Kids like this either found the thousands of dollars for a custom hardware solution or used paper words and photos, which are much less portable (if you want anywhere near the vocabulary available in an AAC). Or they just went through life with a significantly reduced ability to communicate, which is incredibly frustrating for them and their caregivers.

      This sounds like when President Clinton got caught with Monica. He just wouldn't tell the truth and the SLPs should just swallow the truth and get it over with. ;-). We all have had to do it from time to time. I am not sure if they will find the soiled dress, but it looks like it. By SLP who gives oral.

  18. Ah yes, the abuse of moderation continues by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

    Troll doesn't mean "something I don't believe in"

    It means "something the poster doesn't believe"

    I believe every statement I made in this post. Anything that can be factual IS.

    In any case, here's someone volunteering to recreate this trivial app on Android so that the fact that Apple is abusive to users and developers alike does not have to keep this kind of app from existing.

    --
    "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    1. Re:Ah yes, the abuse of moderation continues by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      I believe every statement I made in this post.

      Ah right. It's the "I'm not a troll, I'm mentally ill" defense.

    2. Re:Ah yes, the abuse of moderation continues by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Ah right. It's the "I'm not a troll, I'm mentally ill" defense.

      If you want to believe I have burgers in my pants or something that's cool, but the simple truth is that Apple has never given one tenth of one fuck about the individual user. The problems with B&W G3 Rev.1 data corruption are well-documented, you can find many references to them on relevant sites like lowendmac. The problems with Apple taking a gigantic shit on developers any time their goals conflict with Apple's are well-documented and have been discussed to death here on Slashdot.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    3. Re:Ah yes, the abuse of moderation continues by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      If you want to believe I have burgers in my pants or something that's cool... The problems with B&W G3 Rev.1 data corruption are well-documented

      So you had a problem with a computer 15 years ago. You need to stop obsessing about it. If you're not going to get modded troll, you're going to be modded off-topic.

    4. Re:Ah yes, the abuse of moderation continues by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      We're talking about a pattern of behavior; do something bad to users, blame them for it, then cover it up. This is still going on today, except now it's hard to cover things up.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  19. $300 App by dwightk · · Score: 1

    Sounds like lots of room in that market to undercut the opposition.

    --
    Like anyone can even know that
    1. Re:$300 App by MickyTheIdiot · · Score: 1

      Time for an open source solution....

    2. Re:$300 App by green1 · · Score: 1

      The problem is this IS the undercut, this $300 app replaces multi-thousand dollar custom hardware, and the makers of that hardware are pissed they're loosing their cash cow.
      And once again we see what patents are truly good at, stifling progress and innovation in the name of protecting outdated business methods.

  20. What kids say by russotto · · Score: 0

    You do know that when a toddler tells her daddy she loves him, she's just sucking up, right?

    Anyway, this is a problem with doing anything through an intermediary -- any time a dispute arises, the intermediary reacts to protect itself, not you. Same thing could happen if the app were somehow sold in a box at Best Buy. Of course, Apple gives you no choice but to sell the app that way. And IMO they're a bunch of wimps for not at least waiting for a preliminary injunction; if they got sued, getting a ruling that an app store is not liable for any unknowing or disputed patent violations would be valuable to them.

    1. Re:What kids say by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "You do know that when a toddler tells her daddy she loves him, she's just sucking up, right?"

      I can see you read those women's magazines.
      I suppose you also believe in the wonders of acai berries.

  21. One word. Jailbreak by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If they won't put the app up, jailbreak the iPad and make a open source alternative.

  22. Mod this up! by ElementOfDestruction · · Score: 1

    I was trying to put this information in such eloquent forms but Sarten-x has done it

  23. This is why I prefer programming for Android. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Google pulls your app? You can still download/install from a different source. (Snes9x comes to mind)
    Apple pulls your app? You're shit out of luck.

  24. Gutenberg never got his due by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The monks that had the patents for hand-printing manuscripts sued his ass off for the entire idea of printing letters, and thus the printing press never became popular.

    Don't you just hate when someone figures out a way to do something 10x or 100x cheaper?

  25. What's Dana's email addy? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I want to explain her how the wonderful software patent system works...

  26. Oblig Buddhist response by Kupfernigk · · Score: 2, Insightful
    "There is no good or bad karma, there is only karma".

    I realise this is slightly OT, but it annoys me a little to have Buddhism replaced by cartoon-Buddhism. Buddhism is not Christianity. It's medieval Catholicism in which the patent lawyers and company executives would spend eternity in a nasty place. For traditional Buddhists, any and all engaging with the illusion that is the world of the five senses is karma.

    Modern relativism has largely obsoleted religious sanctions - and I'm not about to regurgitate Durkheim - but the fact is that there are an awful lot of people who in the past would have had the fear of Hell to create a check on their antisocial behaviour. Now, they just don't care. Hence increasing inequality and doctrines like Libertarianism (which basically comes down in the end to, he with the most money to pay lawyers always wins).

    --
    From scarped cliff or quarried stone she cries "A thousand types are gone, I care for nothing, no not one."
    1. Re:Oblig Buddhist response by mseeger · · Score: 1

      You're right, but if i can pull a joke by simplifying Buddhism or Christianity, i always will. Sorry! I can only promise that i will pull no punches for any religion ;-).

    2. Re:Oblig Buddhist response by jpapon · · Score: 2

      It's medieval Catholicism in which the patent lawyers and company executives would spend eternity in a nasty place.

      Actually, in medieval Catholicism patent lawyers could have simply paid for an indulgence with some of the money they earned committing the sin. Pretty slick system really; one gets to do whatever they want as long as the Church gets to wet their beak.

      --
      -- Let us endeavor so to live that when we pass even the undertaker shall be sorry. -- M. Twain
    3. Re:Oblig Buddhist response by Critical+Facilities · · Score: 1

      Buddhism is not Christianity. It's medieval Catholicism in which the patent lawyers and company executives would spend eternity in a nasty place

      Nope, that's not quite right either. I agree with the "There is no good or bad karma, there is only karma", but karma still isn't some sort of cosmic justice. It works a lot differently.

    4. Re:Oblig Buddhist response by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Libertarianism (which basically comes down in the end to, he with the most money to pay lawyers always wins).

      Bullshit. Lawyers only have power because the corrupt government gives them power. That's the same corrupt government that makes everything illegal in the first place.

    5. Re:Oblig Buddhist response by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A complaint about cartoon Buddhism is a bad place to paint a cartoon of Libertarianism.

    6. Re:Oblig Buddhist response by steelfood · · Score: 0

      Your understanding of karma may depend on the particular school of Buddhism you subscribe to.

      Buddhism is a philosophy turned into a religion because philosophies can't really gain traction among the unwashed masses if it doesn't alleviate some of their fears, doubts, and uncertainties. It would only be natural for certain Buddhist concepts to be turned into a structure for punishment and reward in the course of moving to a religion.

      --
      "If a nation expects to be ignorant and free in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be."
    7. Re:Oblig Buddhist response by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think you really need that app!

  27. Maybe you should have thought of that by h4rr4r · · Score: 1

    If you are going to do this sort of thing, maybe you should do it on a device you can control. Lots of android stuff out there that you can sideload on with no problems.

  28. Yes (mostly) by Sloppy · · Score: 2

    Because friendly computers are immune to patent disputes?

    Friendly computers are immune to a patent dispute causing previously-installed software to stop working, yes. Poster tried to tug at heart strings by implying this happened (RTFAing tells me this is not actually the case; they won't have a problem unless they need to replace hardware, migrate, etc).

    Furthermore, friendly computers are immune to patent disputes allowing someone other than publisher to interfere with the market, prior to a court order. Apple should not have any say in whether or not this product is on the market. Even a stolid authoritarian would agree this is a matter for the courts, not Apple (or the marketplace, since we're using an authoritarian PoV). But the platform's unreasonable reliance on Apple-only repository makes it an Apple problem.

    That is a design flaw. A known and very high-profile (and staggering) design flaw since day 1, which is one of the reasons I never bought any of these products.

    And really, if you think about it, a truly friendly computer cannot even have its software interfered with by an injunction, even if we think that's a bad idea. Unless government forces have knowledge of a specific computer, that computer ought to be answering to its owner rather than another party.

    We have seen this principle at work in the past, where people used patented codecs, cryptographic software, and DMCA-prohibited software despite its illegality. This is the essence of a friendly computer: serving its owner over all other considerations. That's true even if you think it's a bad idea -- that there's such thing as "too friendly," and that society has a legitimate interest in having the capacity to forcefully deny users the ability to use their computers in certain ways.

    --
    As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
    1. Re:Yes (mostly) by chrismcb · · Score: 1

      Friendly computers are immune to a patent dispute causing previously-installed software to stop working, yes.

      While this is strictly true, a lot of new software automatically updates itself. And there is no reason an update couldn't uninstall the software.

  29. Wrong to blame apple by yoctology · · Score: 1

    Instead of blaming apple for respecting property rights, why not request a limited license from the alleged patent holders for permission for this app in this instance?

  30. Re:One word. Jailbreak by green1 · · Score: 1

    Except that a jailbreak wouldn't help address the concerns expressed in the article.
    they already have the app, so loading it isn't the problem at this point. The problem is how to ensure that it doesn't get broken with future iOS upgrades. and jailbreaks are FREQUENTLY broken by iOS updates with no guarantee that another jailbreak method will come along.

    A better long term solution would be to move to a platform where the official market place does not have a monopoly on software distribution, and to move to an open source solution. That way regardless of any one parties wishes, you are still safe.

  31. This is NOT Apple's Problem by l0ungeb0y · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Why should we be flooding Apple's inbox with requests to put the App back in the AppStore?
    By doing so, they expose themselves to legal liability and potential lawsuits.

    It seems that if you are angry about this and wanted to see this app back in iTMS, you'd write the software creators and patent claimant urging them to settle their differences fairly and amicably in the interests of the consumer. iTMS will promptly put the app back online when instructed to do so and can be assured they will not be sued for doing so.

    1. Re:This is NOT Apple's Problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, it is. They pulled the app for no reason. Apple is fully at fault. It's amazing how loud idiots can be sometimes.

    2. Re:This is NOT Apple's Problem by Sloppy · · Score: 1

      The reason it is Apple's problem, is that they sell devices which will only install software from Apple's servers. (Personally, I can't view this as anything other than malicious. It's the kind of bullshit you would expect from that hellhole known as video game consoles, and was the act which put Apple into the loathed and reviled company of Nintendo, Sony, and Microsoft. All four of you are the same to me, now.) Apple can fix this bug by releasing an iOS update which allows installation of software no matter where it comes from or by whom it is signed. Give control to the users and open up the market.

      The reason it's not Apple's problem, is that everyone knows iOS devices have this flaw, and for whatever reason, iOS device owners bought the device anyway. They opted in to limited software availability and a broken market. Common sense said "don't do it" and some other force said "do it" and they blew off common sense. So be it.

      When someone asks "Why won't my XBox boot Ubuntu?" you can have sympathy for them and slap them for being a moron. They're right and wrong. I tend to lean toward pointing out what's wrong, but threats like UEFI make me wonder how easy things it will remain, to keep saying No to such obvious malice and hostility on the part of manufacturers.

      --
      As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
    3. Re:This is NOT Apple's Problem by kimvette · · Score: 1

      you'd write the software creators and patent claimant urging them to settle their differences fairly and amicably in the interests of the consumer.

      BWAHAHAHAHA!

      When was the last time that ever worked with patent trolls?

      --
      The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
    4. Re:This is NOT Apple's Problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because Apple made the decision to pull the app independently from the courts. No injunction was made, no judge ever ordered Apple to do this, and Apple was under no legal obligation to do so. They made an unnecessarily reactionary CYA move by pulling the app, and that move has an impact on people.

  32. Prior art anyone??? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Take a look at these products. Any freaking icon that gets pressed and emits a predetermined sound for communication conflicts with their patent. What crap. US PTO and Congress needs to review Patent Law and preclude this kind of overreach.

    http://store.prentrom.com/

  33. You know what's worse than apple decision? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    The pseudo-patent system that allows this aburd behaviour to happen. Im kind of glad China, India and others don't give a rats ass about ACTA or patents.

  34. Helen Keller didn't need an iPad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So why should this girl? She should learn to sign or something. Or better yet, she should just learn to talk, I don't see anything wrong with her.

    1. Re:Helen Keller didn't need an iPad by istartedi · · Score: 1

      Right. Helen Keller didn't need an iPad. She had a dedicated human being that helped here get around and interpreted signs for her so she could communicate with those not fluent in sign language.

      --
      For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
    2. Re:Helen Keller didn't need an iPad by geekoid · · Score: 1

      " I don't see anything wrong with her."
      with your magic eyes and extensive medical training?

      you are a slime ball who will have a hard life. sadly, it won't be as hard as you deserve and you will probably inflict it on others.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
  35. Misleading headline.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The headline is quite misleading. Apple is just one of the parties involved. The real culprits are intellectual properties laws and the companies that abuse them.

  36. what? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    so, money is speech but speech isn't. it would be amusing if it wasn't so depressing.

  37. Apple Didn't Pull The App by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    More than likely Apple didn't pull the app. the developer pulled the app when the patent holder sent a notice.
    I know this from experience with two of my apps.

    One of my apps was an electronic implementnation of a physical board game, which is arguably a valid complaint, so I agreed to pull it to avoid legal hassles.
    The second one was a complaint because my app's name was too similar to theirs, which has a registered trademark. This is still under discussion with the patent holder.

    Apple didn't pulled either of my apps. They simply noted the complaint and provided a way for both parties to communicate and allow them to settle the issue themselves without Apple getting involved.
    People here seem to think Apple acts unilaterally without providing a reasonable way for people to settle the issue. You're thinking of Google, who HAS removed apps from other people's devices. Apple has never done this.

  38. Think of the children!! AGAIN!!! by erroneus · · Score: 1

    Am I mistaken in believing this story has been posted here before??? If not, then there was one quite similar to this where a child with a speaking disability was "robbed" of their speaking tool.

  39. Yes and? by SmallFurryCreature · · Score: 1

    The British people buy it and pay for it. They just don't mind that the person they are buying it for is the them from an alternate reality (you might have been the one needing life long care, so why not pay for it just because it didn't turn out that way? Don't bother republicans, you will never understand this, is something called being human).

    --

    MMO Quests are like orgasms:

    You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.

    1. Re:Yes and? by geekoid · · Score: 1

      But human work in social groups for the common good, therefore humans are socialists, there for they are bad.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    2. Re:Yes and? by spire3661 · · Score: 1

      It hurts to know I have friends who would never understand this.

      --
      Good-bye
  40. she look's retarded by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    lol

  41. "Journalism" by Quiet_Desperation · · Score: 3, Insightful

    o Two companies have legal dispute over some speech thing.
    o Apple is asked to pull app until legal dispute is settled.
    o Apple: (shrug) OK. (pulls app) (App remains on iPads that downloaded it)
    o Media: "ZOMFG!!1! APPLE DESTROYS THE ***LIFE*** OF CHILD WITH HANDICAP AND DRIVES MOTHER TO MISERY AND MADE FLUTTERSHY CRY!!!11!2657682365879!!"
    o Slashdot AppleHateSquad: "LOVE ITSELF HAS BEEN OBLITERATED FROM THE ENTIRETY OF THE PAN DIMENSIONAL MULTIVERSE!!!!!"

    1. Re:"Journalism" by geekoid · · Score: 1

      The courts haven't even decided if the case has merit.
      If it does have merit, then Apple should wait for a judge to tell them to stop supplying the App.

      Yet another case of Apple not really carrying about their customers needs.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    2. Re:"Journalism" by Quiet_Desperation · · Score: 1

      Fluttershy's still cryin', man. Can't you dig that? No one thinks of the kiddies anymore. All the love done drained from the 'verse.

  42. Perfect Example of why Android is Better by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I can't figure out why people stay with iOS when you are forced to go through iTunes or the App Store. With Android I have my pick of multiple App stores, and/or I can just install the app directly from my phone and bypass App stores all together.

    1. Re:Perfect Example of why Android is Better by codepunk · · Score: 1

      It is also why developers will not touch Android since it is impossible to gain a return on your investment. In return you are awarded with trashy buggy apps for the android.

      --


      Got Code?
    2. Re:Perfect Example of why Android is Better by geekoid · · Score: 1

      Well, that whole post is a lie.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
  43. broken patent system by Alien7 · · Score: 1

    This is a perfect case for reworking the patent system. Clearly it isn't working for the betterment of humanity, this isn't a problem with apple but with the concept of "intellectual property". Companies should be rewarded for their ability to consistently make good products and not for their ability to patent overly broad ideas and win lawsuits. Why didn't the plaintiff write an easy to use app distributed version of their software before the other company? They had no incentive to do the research, they already own the patent and can charge whatever they want for their curmudgeonly versions so why pay someone to make it cheaper and easier to use? If patent owners aren't diligent in maintaining their "property value" then they shouldn't be able to complain when someone plants a garden on their weed ridden lawn.

  44. That page is not available to me by tepples · · Score: 1

    From your link: "To continue, you must enter the Apple ID and password you used to register as an Apple Developer."

  45. Scorched Earth by tepples · · Score: 1

    At least CtC authors acknowledged their inspiration from "Castle Clout."

    And Castle Clout ultimately goes back to Scorched Earth. Genre launches don't happen as often as some copyright maximalists would have you think.

    1. Re:Scorched Earth by guises · · Score: 1

      Bullshit. Scorched Earth has nothing to do with Castle Clout. In fact, the differences are so large that I have trouble seeing how you could even make that connection. Arcing projectile trajectories? I can't see anything else that they have in common.

    2. Re:Scorched Earth by tepples · · Score: 1

      First there was Scorched Earth. Then there were things like Gorilla.bas, Solar Wars, and the old Mac game Cannon Fodder, which are rightly called "Scorched Earth clones" because their gameplay is nearly identical. Then there are things that transform the market from clones to a genre, like Castle Clout, CtC, and Angry Birds, which established the "destroy something with arcing projectiles fired from a fixed turret half a screen away" genre.

      Likewise, first there were Wolfenstein 3D and Doom. Only after Goldeneye and Half-Life did "Doom clones" become the genre of "first-person shooters".

    3. Re:Scorched Earth by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I haven't tried Castle Clout, but there is nothing more to Crush the Castle (online Flash version) than arcing projectile trajectories. In Angry Birds at least the different weapons have different advantages. I played all the way through CtC and found no reason to use anything other than the newest available weapon. There was also no reward for destroying the castle more efficiently.

  46. What makes it counterfeit by tepples · · Score: 1
    Anonymous Coward wrote:

    A counterfeit version of Angry Birds would be a game that falsely purported to be Angry Birds, not just a game with similar mechanics.

    The Tetris Company would disagree with you. Having the same mechanics is the very thing that makes it counterfeit in the worldview of Tetris author Alexey Pajitnov and his business partner Henk Rogers.

  47. Deaf community > prison by tepples · · Score: 1

    Then advocate a method that allows them to only communicate with select people rather than to break the law by communicating with a larger group.

  48. Disney by Wingfat · · Score: 0

    Oh sounds like Disney will buy out that software then. I know my 2yr old loves running arounf the living room chanting, Lighting McQueen! Lighting McQueen! Ka-Chow! Lighting McQueen!

  49. Okay, I just have to respond by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    When Apple pulls an app from the app store, it's *ONLY* removed from their store and *NOT* your device. The only time the latter ever happens is if the app is known to be malicious, and that's only in extremely rare circumstances (and when that happens it usually makes the news).

    Case in point: I have a number of apps Apple's pulled from the App Store (iDOS, MAME to name a few) that iTunes will happily back up and sync to any device I throw at it.

    So, maybe do some research before spewing your "Insightful" garbage.

  50. Wrong Company by Imagix · · Score: 1

    I'm with most of the people here. Over sensationalized, and targeted at the wrong company. Why pester Apple about it when they are doing what they probably should and limit their legal liability. Why not complain to PRC and SCS to have them issue a statement that they will indemnify and hold harmless Apple with respect to this app. Then Apple wouldn't have a reason to pull the app, and the companies can still go after the alleged patent infringers. And the user can then get their updates (should the original developer choose to do any).

    1. Re:Wrong Company by geekoid · · Score: 1

      Because pulling an app based on one companies say so is wrong. Why is Apple suddenly the de facto arbiter in a court dispute?

      Apple should wait until they get an order from the court to pull it. Until that time they have exactly zero increased liability.
      At least that's what they should do if they gave a crap about their customers.

      The courts haven't decided if the case even has merit to continue.

      And this goes for all apps, not just an overpriced app used to help children.

      " Why not complain to PRC and SCS to have them issue a statement that they will indemnify and hold harmless"
      people can complain to more then one group; each group has a different stake, and becasue until a court says apple can't distribute it there is nothing to indemnify.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
  51. Should have licensed by tepples · · Score: 1

    What about the researcher at Prentke Romich whose income depends on the company's speech hardware, who has a toddler at home to feed?

    Then the maker of this speech hardware should have offered to license the relevant patents to the application developer at a reasonable royalty.

    1. Re:Should have licensed by Sarten-X · · Score: 1

      Yeah, that would be nice, but they didn't. That sucks. Maybe they're working on their own app, or maybe not.

      --
      You do not have a moral or legal right to do absolutely anything you want.
  52. Low-tech solution? by jordanjay29 · · Score: 1

    This article might pull at my heartstrings more if there weren't several low-tech solutions available to, yes, even an illiterate 4 year old. Chief among them being sign language, something that would be simple enough for a child of her age to learn and has a built-in infrastructure by being the language of the Deaf, which by rights afforded by ADA and other laws would always have types of access. Why not teach her sign language? Not only would she learn to communicate in a full language of her own, instead of being constrained by somebody's picturized version of English, but she could communicate without the aid of an iPad or any such tech device. What happens when the battery runs out or if there's a disaster and she's out of range of her iPad? How would she communicate?

    I know low-tech is the not the first thing that /. readers think of, but for once it might be more appropriate here than the solution already in use.

    1. Re:Low-tech solution? by HuguesT · · Score: 1

      From the blog of the family:

      http://niederfamily.blogspot.fr/p/our-communicationaac-journey.html

      basically they tried.

    2. Re:Low-tech solution? by jordanjay29 · · Score: 1

      Watching the video they linked to makes it clear that there's more going on than just the lack of speech. Instead of relying on tools someone else has made, this family might consider investing in someone's home-grown solution to fit Maya. It pains me to say that Apple pulling an app from their store is going to be the least of Maya's worries in life.

  53. Build it for Android, then put it on everything by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Build the same kind of app for Android tablet, then port it to all other tablet OSes including iOS. If Apple still refused to take this new standard app in their store then sue them to FORCE them to accept it. Put a stake in the ground that a free app like this geared towards enabling handicapped people can NOT be refused by an app store.

  54. Patent Infringement by adisakp · · Score: 1

    The software supposedly infringes on over 100 patents. It sounds like Prentke Romich Company (PRC) and Semantic Compaction Systems -- the makers of the original software -- put a lot of time and development into the original expensive product. Along comes a small company ( Heidi LoStracco and Renee Collender) that duplicates much of their work and design in a lighter device (iPad) and sells it at a price that vastly undercuts them. The original sellers have to charge more because they are actually making a licensed medical device, working through channels to get approved by insurance and hospitals, and dealing with all the legal nightmares involved with that while the smaller company just uploads an app to the AppStore. The medical device for children has to survive drop tests and other ruggedization tests that an iPad doesn't (so it's bulkier) and because it's not manufactured in bulk in China (so it costs a lot more).

    If it wasn't for the "Think of the Children" aspect, most of the time Slashdot comes down pretty heavy against app cloners.

    Now, if we had mandatory FRAND licensing for software or for medical devices, perhaps they could offer their software on the iPad if they paid the licensing costs for those patents. However, the "fair price" for the cost of developing "approved" medical technology in the US is pretty huge and might drive the app cost up to $5000-10000. It sounds like the patent system is working to protect the original property rights owners from someone copying their technology and skirting around all the work they did in complying with the system.

    1. Re:Patent Infringement by geekoid · · Score: 1

      It's not a clone. The medical device are for more clumsy to use. Both the device and the UI.

      It has icons with pictures and words on it, and a database to store what is used most often.

      The people make a ton of money off the bloated hardware, and now they have shown it's not really worth 8K.
      They see a better solution in the market, so the are suing. I can't find any place the list specific complaints, and the court are only look at it right now to see if the suit even has merit to proceed, so Apple had jumped the gun here. But, don't they always jump the gun against their consumers in favor of the business?

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    2. Re:Patent Infringement by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If this is a clone, then every tablet is a clone of the Newton...

      Apple is probably waiting to hit them up for copying their handheld idea and taking ALL the money.....

    3. Re:Patent Infringement by adisakp · · Score: 1

      I'm sure that if any tablet violates 100 Apple Patents that Apple will take them to court.

  55. Fanboism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You forgot one,

    Apple Fanbois: OMG OMG! Someone wrote something bad about my holly Apple! I must assassinate that messenger in any way possible for the Holy Jobs!

    1. Re:Fanboism by Quiet_Desperation · · Score: 1

      Maybe. *shrug* Didn't see as much of that, so I didn't choose to skewer it. When it's satire time, I'm agnostic and there are no good guys.

  56. Only Free Software would secure her voice by noldrin · · Score: 1

    There are any number of things that got jeopardize her voice, patent issues, the company going out of business, the company upgrading in a way that breaks her ability to use it, the company decided to charge a lot more money, Apple decided they don't want this type of app anymore. Only if it were free software on a free software device would her right to use this app have any sense of security. As of now, if she loses or breaks her iPad, she is SOL on this one.

  57. time to switch by Eponymous+Hero · · Score: 1

    buy an android phone, cheap, off prepaid providers like cricket. don't bother hooking up a phone number to it. build your speech app in android, upload directly to phone. there, now the kid is talking and not texting while driving. or should i patent this process?

    --
    insensitive clod overlords obligatory xkcd car analogy russian reversals whoosh pedant fanbois ftfy in 3...2...1..PROFIT
  58. If the had an android device by geekoid · · Score: 1

    she could get it from other sources, as well as updates.

    Welcome to the Apple fenced garden.Screwed devs and customers.
    People who would buy an iPad primarily for those app, and spend 300 bucks on the app, would certainly by an android device. They don't care about the device, they care about helping their child.

    Anyways, there are so many stupid issues here:
    299.99 for an app that does this:
    http://www.speakforyourself.org/About_The_App.html

    really?

    Using an app that is platform dependent? for this?

    ug.

    --
    The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
  59. Easy solution by SinisterEVIL · · Score: 1

    Android has had these for a while. They don't pull apps like Apple. Seems like it's not a big problem.

  60. Straw is delicious by Chibi+Merrow · · Score: 1

    There is a reason why the all of the top high-end apps, like FAA certified EFBs are exclusively on iOS. Would you really want your airline pilot navigating through IFR conditions using some cheap-ass Android tablet running god-knows-what version of the OS, where the chart isn't scaled correctly because the screen has a weird aspect ratio? Do you /really/ want to take that chance?

    Hi. I work with the FAA, two of my most recent projects were EFB related, in fact.

    If a pilot is looking at his iOS based "FAA certified" EFB in IMC, he shouldn't be a pilot. They're not certified for use in flight, and have to be stowed (and turned off) before takeoff.

    Nice straw man, though.

    --
    Maxim: People cannot follow directions.
    Increases in truth directly with the length of time spent explaining them
    1. Re:Straw is delicious by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I seriously doubt you work for the FAA, especially considering that this happened over a year ago:

      http://ww1.jeppesen.com/company/newsroom/articles.jsp?newsURL=news/newsroom/2011/iPad_EFB_authorization_NR.jsp

      "Jeppesen today announced that Executive Jet Management has received authorization from the Federal Aviation Administration to use the Jeppesen Mobile TC App for iPad as an alternative to paper aeronautical charts. The authorization allows Executive Jet Management to use iPad and the Jeppesen Mobile TC App as the sole reference for electronic charts, even during taxi, takeoff and landing."

      Not just any pilot can start using it. The operator must define approved training and use procedures first.

  61. Iphones have been around longer than this kid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    who is 4 years old, has been trying to talk. The iphone was released in June 29, 2007 which is 5 years ago minus a few weeks.

  62. Flashbang article by hattable · · Score: 1

    It's terrible that this girl may not have this app forever but that is not the point. If patents were infringed upon that is a completely separate issue. It is not as if Apple execs woke up one night and decided to go out and do evil for giggles.
    We should be angry with PRC or if Speak for Yourself actually gave the finger to PRC and wrote the app aware of every infringing line of code then people should be pissed at them.

    ...There goes my good karma.

    --
    OMG facts!
  63. Walled garden helps no one by TrancePhreak · · Score: 1

    Move away from the walled garden. The grass is greener and there's more variety of plants.

    --

    -]Phreak Out[-
  64. Re:Deaf community prison by green1 · · Score: 1

    she is in no way breaking any law.
    The programmers MAY be in violation of patent law, but that has yet to be proven in a court of law.

  65. Sorry but patent on Text to Speech? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I didn't really read the patents in question, but an app that help's someone who can't speak... speak... must do one main thing that most other apps do not: speak.

    Text to Speech has been around since the early 90s, and is implemented freely in Windows, Mac, Linux and other operating systems. There must be an overwhelming amount of proof of prior art. I can only imagine that this patent is something like, "A method for storing text for use in text to speech in a way that enabled someone to easily communicate with others." which is just crazy.

  66. Daughter can't use sign language by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    I e-mailed Maya to suggest this.

    Her daughter doesn't have good enough finger coordination for sign language.

    They did try.

  67. "Make, use, or sell" includes use by tepples · · Score: 1

    she is in no way breaking any law.

    A patent confers the exclusive right to make, use, or sell an invention. "Make, use, or sell" includes use.

  68. This whole thing is a non-issue by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's remarkable really. The fact that Apple's app store is involved is the only factor that makes this "of interest".

    Just because a user puts an IOS device into a "critical" functional use does not make it any more Apple's problem than a normal use.

    Let's say I used an iPad to replace the dashbord disply in an old truck I'm restoring. Apple finds out the app I'm using is infringing and they remove it. That's MY problem, not Apples. They cannot be held responsible for how I choose to use their device.

    This story just uses the tears of children to lubricate it's insertion into the news media.

  69. Your choice by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You chose to give money to a corrupt company that dictates what you can and cannot run on the device you purchased. Had you gone with a more sensible solution, such as an Android product, you would not be having these problems. You chose the product most likely to give you trouble, and now it's giving you trouble. I have no sympathy for you.

  70. Re:One word. Jailbreak by Naso540 · · Score: 1

    I agree - but the concern you raised on backward compatibility on the iOS APIs is something that software developer would have to deal with either way. Whether the application is allowed to be distributed in the app store or not. So really to me the Jailbreak option should really mitigate the concern. As long as there is a published API set, jailbreak the phone and have someone make the enhancements.

  71. Typical of the "assistive device" market by alispguru · · Score: 1

    Companies that make assistive devices like this know:

    * Their customer is actually the government agency that pays them

    * The customer will pay an incredible premium for a single-purpose device instead of software on a general-purpose device

    That last one is important. In some states, agencies are precluded from giving their clients laptops with, say, scanners for the blind or textspeech software for the deaf, because the client might use the device to do things other than handle their disability.

    --

    To a Lisp hacker, XML is S-expressions in drag.
    1. Re:Typical of the "assistive device" market by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 1

      the client might use the device to do things other than handle their disability.

      So, hackers are automatically disqualified from getting any device, then?

      --
      My God, it's Full of Source!
      OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
  72. Due Process is a Myth by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    In spite of propaganda to the contrarary, in reality the legal system has never actually worked that way.

    When you are arrested, and in certain states even a traffic violation counts, you subjected to due process. This includes being handcuffed, taken to jail, deloused, one or more body cavity searches, and there isn't shit your lawyer can do about it until its time for you to go in front of a judge for bail and have your arraignment scheduled.

    Then you will probably have to pay your lawyer a significant amount of $$$ along the way, and face the possibility of losing your job as well.

    So you may still be found innocent, but due process is going to be painful and expensive.

  73. Most questions covered in their FAQ by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Their FAQ section specifically addresses questions related to this issue: http://www.prentrom.com/news/media-information-on-pending-litigation

    Is it true that the infringement suit will remove all AAC apps from the market?

    No. There are many vocabulary apps in the market, some of which have been available for several years. The lawsuit only addresses one specific app, which infringes on the intellectual property developed by SCS.

    Why is SCS suing? How are the app developers infringing?

    The Unity system that powers our language solutions is the result of the long commitment and hard work of Bruce Baker and his company, Semantic Compaction Systems, which licenses the system to PRC. Our patent attorneys determined that there are multiple instances of infringement on the Unity patents. Bruce has spent more than 25 years and millions of dollars to create and refine this software, resulting in life-changing technology that has given a voice to thousands of individuals with profound disabilities. To take someone’s life work and market it as your own is simply wrong.

    Did PRC attempt to work with SFY to resolve this situation?

    When PRC first learned of the app in November 2011, we reached out to the company’s founders, and offered various business solutions. When all of our offers were refused and they continued to market the app, we filed the first and only lawsuit PRC has ever filed in our 45-year history.

    If this isn’t all about money, why do your devices cost thousands of dollars?

    Our devices are durable medical equipment, built in accordance with FDA regulations. We also hold accreditation from the Accreditation Commission for Health Care and are an ISO-9001 registered company.

    Our products are medical devices and have specialized features important to our clients, such as heavy duty cases, enhanced voice output and multiple access options including eye-gaze and head pointing. The devices provide multiple vocabulary options, allow for customization and provide support tools such as the Vocabulary Builder, Icon Prediction and the Language Activity Monitor. All of the companies that create dedicated AAC devices manufacture only a few thousand of these devices each year and obviously don’t enjoy the same economies of scale as products intended for the consumer market.

    [etc]

  74. wut by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Apps to renotices!?

  75. Mess? What mess? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The current state of the patent system is very good at preventing independents from competing against established corporations. That is exactly what it is supposed to do: protect the wealth of the already-rich. The popular misconceptions about using patents to stimulate innovation and protect the little guy are just lies used to get buy-in.

    You do benefit from this somewhat...if you own any blue-chip stocks. But you would benefit a lot more if pattents weren't there to act as a brick-wall to real innovation.

  76. Just so long as she doesn't want more. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    I'm reading a lot of comments about keeping iOS where it is, dedicating the device to the task, second hand hardware should the iPad fail, etc.

    I understand the article is overblown, but seriously none of these comments seem to have taken into consideration that these parents likely don't have the technical skills /. has, are possibly unable to dedicate the device to the task, etc.

    There's a disturbing lack of empathy.

  77. Easy to fix by PeterWone · · Score: 1

    Get a Windows 7 phone

  78. they decide what apps you can run by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If you go with a company that controls what you can do, this is what you get. No thank you, I'll wait for a KDE/Linux tablet.

  79. Naraka vs. "western" pseudo-buddhism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Welcome to Naraka:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naraka_%28Buddhism%29

    How many centuries before you admit it's hell? Btw the word hell isn't Christian but from the Norse Hel (one l) found in Åsatru:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hel_%28location%29

    You might think you're a Buddhist but are you? :)

    1. Re:Naraka vs. "western" pseudo-buddhism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ffs :C me + brainfart (I even previewed), so here:
      Naraka
      Hel

  80. Re:One word. Jailbreak by green1 · · Score: 1

    The problem is you can't guarantee the continued ability to jailbreak the device after the device is upgraded. Jailbreak is usually broken by the upgrades.

    so the published APIs only help half of the problem, they are no good to you if you can't load them on the device because you can't find a way to jailbreak the newest iOS version.

    The only long term solution is to move to a device where that isn't an issue.

  81. I don't understand the connection by chrismcb · · Score: 1

    What does this girls ability or inability to speak have to do with the patent infringement? If the app was infringing on the patent, and the app is no longer allowed to be sold, of course people won't be able to purchase it.

  82. Yes but it's still 4yo vs. scum. Pick your side. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    n/t

  83. It is kind of pathetic that fandroids try ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ... the boogeyman story ..... when Google has used it HUNDRED OF TIMES, while Apple hasn't use the alleged feature not even once.

  84. Charity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It is annoying me how so many people want charity for this family in one form or another from apple, from the patent holders, ect.. This product would not even be around in the first place if it wasn't for greedy money-grubbing people. Do you think apple would have made the IPhone if they wouldn't have made buckets upon buckets of money?

  85. Re:Yes but it's still 4yo vs. scum. Pick your side by Quiet_Desperation · · Score: 1

    Can I pick a side without the false dichotomy?

  86. Simple solution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There is one very simple solution which is they move the company to the PRC where they can legally thumb their nose at the companies trying to stop them from marketing their software. There is are added bonuses in that patent trolls who lose their case end up in a Chinese prison and 9 times out of 10 a company based in China will win their case against a company not based in China.

    Brasil, Venezuala, South Africa, Cambodia and a number of other countries have similar laws or stances regarding protecting indigenous IP. If they are being trolled by a couple of companies providing outdated software/technology then move to someplace that won't let these companies have their way in court.

  87. free way to help your kid. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why not make your own simple way, design a web page / pages. you can make it look much the same and link pictures to sound recordings, there are so many things you can get a web page to do and it is easy to design to your spec, even if you or people you know can not design web pages and need to pay some one to design it for you it is still loads cheaper than the apple app, and not limited to just apple devices, it will work on any web enabled device. And with luck you or some one maybe some one reading this will do this and post it on the web as a free download, it can even be made as an installable app (exe) with some thing like “WEBEXE” I would be happy to help but do not know what spec you need, but I will be looking it to the app and the functions needed and will try to post some thing. I have a son with autism and know what it is like to struggle to communicate.

  88. Robin Hood by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What does this girls ability or inability to speak have to do with the patent infringement? If the app was infringing on the patent, and the app is no longer allowed to be sold, of course people won't be able to purchase it.

    Stealing from the Rich and Giving to the Poor
    "All stealing is comparative. If you come to absolutes, pray who does not steal?" (Ralph Waldo Emerson). Let's be honest, once an innocent man becomes introduced to the idea of free music, software, movies, and other expensive items, he'll get attached forever. Kleptomaniacs are created every day as more and more join the "warez scene," a global reference to the collection of warez groups. "Warez" was coined to indicate more than one piece of pirated software and refers primarily to copyrighted material traded in violation of copyright law (Warez). Despite internet piracy exploding recently as a world wide industry, it is being frowned upon as well as illegal in most countries; although, it will never be completely hindered due to the mass number of violators.
    The law varies throughout the world, however, there are four elements of criminal copyright infringement that are universal: the existence of a valid copyright, the copyright was infringed, the infringement was willful, and the infringement was either for commercial gain or substantial gain (Warez). The law behind internet piracy in the U.S. falls under the Copyright Act of 1976 which gives the author the exclusive right to reproduce, display, distribute, and sell his original work. It is part of the Federal law and is authorized by the United States Constitution. The power to enact copyright law is granted in Article I, Section 8, Clause 8, also known as the Copyright Clause, which states: The Congress shall have Power [. . .] To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries (Article One of the United States Constitution).
    The growth of computer network communications, especially the global internet, has made illegal copying of expensive easy and nearly untraceable (Piracy). One of the biggest examples of this was "Napster." "Napster" was a nickname given by friends to Shawn...

  89. pr by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Considering the media attention that this patent case is receiving, I would expect this issue to be resolved in Maya's favor; her parents are doing the smart thing by launching a PR campaign. Hopefully, this is a legal battle that will be resolved by the politics of public opinion.