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US Consumer Bureau Opens Online Credit Card Complaint DB
chiguy writes "The Consumer Financial Protection Bureau begins releasing detailed information on Americans' complaints about their credit cards online. From The Washington Post: 'The CFPB said it will only publish complaints after it has verified the consumer's relationship with the company. The new database will include not only the name of the company involved, but also the nature of the complaint and the consumer's Zip code. It will also report whether the firm responded in a timely manner, how the matter was resolved and any disputes. The CFPB said it has received more than 45,000 in the year since the bureau was launched.' Complaints about mortgages, student loans, and checking accounts will be added later. Financial institutions are complaining loudly, decrying the enforcement of one of the main tenets of the free market: transparency."
More and more I get this feeling of disgust each time I hear a company complain about something that has to do with consumer rights. At least I am getting more disgusted and not more desensitized...
Didn't know something like this existed. Time to add my recent problems to the list. With a credit rating of 720 there is no excuse for me to have a 23.9% APR. Fuck you Chase Freedom. Worse part was I would email them over a dozen times and get robo-responded each time with a message that essentially said they don't do credit report please contact experian or other such services. Worse still was that in my emails I told them I went there before applying to check my score. I even went so far as to add a screenshot to my email showing them my awesome score. I would repeatedly get the same robo-response regardless. Eventually I called them. They gave me a support number to call about my APR. The number ended up being disconnected. Chase can suck it. No one should get a card through them.
C'mon proofreaders, get with it.
Hopefully this will begin to add pressure on the credit card companies. At the very least it will create a market opportunity for a company that sees common complaints, and caters their own offerings to avoid angering their customers. Examples:
"In these difficult times, if you miss a payment, you just get a late fee, not a bump in your rate that will take years to reduce."
"Need help? We're easy to reach by phone or email."
"Our rates don't change. Sign up at one APR, stay at that APR."
They need regulating too.
Financial institutions are complaining loudly, decrying ...
The real complaint is they paid billions to elect these guys, and look what happens. My suspicion is within days / weeks this will be defanged. Perhaps you'll only be able to look up complaints if you're already a customer of that bank, or it'll be made illegal to refer to these complaints in any way in advertising, or perhaps the names of the companies will be censored from public view, etc. I bet a simple hack to prevent citizens from using it would be the "only publish complaints after it has verified the consumer's relationship with the company" clause, whoops we have no budget this year for any verifications, what a surprise, I guess we can't publish anything this year... or ever. Another simple hack would be to prevent lookups solely by company name, must specify company name AND zip code AND mom's maiden name or something like that.
The new database will include not only the name of the company involved, but also the ...
consumers account number, PIN number, CVW number, SS number, and mothers maiden name. Wanna bet that it'll be, at most, a select query on the same server as the sensitive personal stuff is stored? And they'll be people uploading complaints named "Bobby tables" within hours of opening. This may be part of the scheme above... complain and everyone on the net can hear about it, but all of your personal data will be on a torrent site within hours, so you better not complain in public after all, serf.
consumer ... consumer ...
I hate being called a consumer. The article is about modern day debt-serfs anyway, not consumers. I want to be a citizen, you know, with like rights and stuff. Just like you know anyone using the N-word probably isn't worth listening to, anyone using the C-word probably isn't worth listening to. (Cloud is another good C-word to ignore)
"Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
The last thing the larger financial companies want is clear documentation of exactly how they screw their customers. Just by sharing this kind of information, they start making the market compete better - now that customers are basically talking to each other, they know that Capital One is a bad deal, which will hurt Capital One in the marketplace.
Of course, I know that there are some who's head will explode when they encounter a government program that is quite cheap, effective, mostly non-coercive, and improves market functioning, but that's what this is.
I am officially gone from
The horror of an informed populace...
Funny, they can submit information to credit agencies that are applied to every adult in this country, but turn around and give the people an outlet to do the same thing in return and now they're sobbing into their cereal. Boo fucking hoo.
Online credit card complaint database hacked, detailed consumer information leaked.
Why? Because the poster wants to ensure that others do not repeat his experience. For example, when I am shopping, I always check reviews. I realize there may be some bad reviews, but if the majority of even half the reviews are bad, I will not go with the product. This site now helps people report their experience with card companies. Now, if you see overwhelming numbers reporting high APR's with Chase Freedom cards, you know that is a card to stay away from. Sure, you can simply cancel and walk away, but knowledge is power, and it is nicer for consumers to share imformation about businesses out there.
I didn't know Transparency was a "tenant" of the Free Market. I do hope he (she?) pays the rent on time.
Then again, I don't know how transparency is supposed to apply here anyway. There's no "free market" in credit reporting, just a triumvirate, which has itself in a win-win-win situation. They're not competing on price, as far as I know, which would be the only place where transparency would be a market factor, since they're all selling basically the same commodity and not uncommonly all 3 to the same customers.
On the other hand, having transparency on how they operate is a big benefit, "Free Market" or not. Considering that up to now, they've had free rein (sic) to bad-mouth people indelibly, it's only appropriate that the favor be returnable. Even their customers benefit, since they can see both sides of the argument for a change.
There only seems to be around 100 complaints in their database. That couldn't possibly be right could it? Or have I been wrong about how terrible the banks can be.
Here's a quick query I threw together:
Complaints by Company
1 TD BANK
1 Zions First National Bank
1 USAA Savings
5 Barclays
6 Amex
7 Wells Fargo
8 Discover
9 GE Capital Retail
15 Bank of America
24 JPMorgan Chase
27 Citibank
33 Capital One
Yeah.... unfortunately, that's NOT the correct way to use a credit card, in the lenders' viewpoint. And guess who makes the rules? (Hint: Not you.)
If you repeatedly pay off a credit card in full, you're just an expense on their balance sheet. (They have to keep lending you money for as long as 25-30 days at a time without making a penny of interest on it -- not to mention maintaining your account with them, printing up fresh cards for you every so often, etc. etc.)
Sure, it shows you're fiscally responsible, but not in a way that benefits them. What they're really after (and reward with a higher credit score) are people who actually carry a balance, but always make payments on time AND keep that balance somewhere under 50% of the total limit you're allowed to borrow.
If you're really going to make sure you never carry a balance on your credit cards, you're better off not having them at all. Just save up money in an interest-earning checking account that includes a debit card and use it instead. As another poster said, the alternative eventually becomes the card issuer charging you some sort of annual fee to keep the card active. That really stinks, because it's like you're paying them interest except without even getting to borrow the money first.
Then I must be an exception then. No annual fees, never paid interest, and take the cash option whenever I redeem my reward points.
Time is what keeps everything from happening all at once.
It's possible ... but I doubt that #1, your credit score is as high as they'd rank it if you did things the way I described, and #2, you can go on with that strategy indefinitely without eventually having the terms and conditions of your card changed on you.
The credit card issuers are NOT really vigilant about what's going on with all the cards out there.... Many years ago, I went through a Chapter 7 and one of the cards I was able to keep (and keep using) for many months after the fact was a Home Depot card, issued by one of the creditors I filed against. They should have immediately cancelled that card (even though I paid it off on-time and didn't have a balance on it). They finally realized their error and cancelled it, but not for close to a year.
If you don't do something that gets their attention (like failing to make a payment), they only review your account every so often. And when they do, and see that you don't owe anything? They may be betting for a while that you'll eventually use the card for some major purchase or emergency situation, and carry a balance for a while when that happens. If that never materializes though, *eventually*, they'll decide you're just not a profitable customer for them....
If that day ever comes then I'll simply use the cash in my accounts to make my purchases instead and they'll lose the fees they earn from the retailers. Admittedly though, I'll miss cashing in my reward points as well.
Time is what keeps everything from happening all at once.
You don't actually understand how credit cards work. Every time you buy something from a store with a credit card, the credit card company gets something like $1 + 3% of what you purchased. That's right, if the store is making a 10% profit on your purchase, almost a third of it goes to VISA or Mastercard. Before 2008, the credit card companies were looking for debt slaves. They loved the people who carried near the maximum balances and made near the minimum payment. However, after the economy tanked they were reminded of how risky that is. Apparently, post 2008 they started seeking out the no-balance people who buy lots of stuff and pay it off every month. They were the new targeted group. I'm not sure if the credit card companies are still actively targeting the no balance people but they are very lucrative for the credit card companies.
Now if you credit card company decides to force you to pay a fee to carry your card, cancel it. They'll eventually learn not to do that. You have to remember corporations are like evil little children. If you don't rap their knuckles every time they get into mischief they'll rob you blind while mocking you for it. See the shackle shoes, for example. It's amazing that a company could reasonably despise it's customer that much.
Fanatically anti-fanatical
I've had a high-interest-rate credit card for ages. I've also only paid like $5 in interest the 15 years I had it (for the one time the statement got lost in the mail).
First, credit cards are a competitive business - your bank will have at least a dozen, half of which are no annual fees. And while bank credit cards (or credit union ones) won't be as full of perks or other stuff like nonbank cards, they will still extend them to you.
And no, if you're using the card, the bank still makes money off you - each transaction costs the merchant 3-5% (though it also means the merchant doesn't have the cost of handling cash). What costs the bank is if you have a $0 balance card and don't use it - in which case they have to keep the account open and you're not making transactions.
And while carrying a balance certainly is profitable, the card issuer has to balance that with your ability to pay. Just because you have a card with a $10,000 credit limit doesn't mean you have the ability to pay it - you could always default on the loan or go bankrupt, in which case the issuer loses out (a credit card is unsecured).
And while paying with cash or debit is great, there are still some advantages to credit. First, you have a history (which is necessary unless you rent a house forever or are rich enough to pay it off in cash). Plus, there are legal protections on credit that some issuers may extend to debit but they don't have to. And there are rewards - most debit cards don't have it.
It can also help with financial planning - the death by 1,000 cuts thing. E.g., if you're paying off stuff like $10 here and there, you can spend a lot more money because most people write it off as "it's a tiny amount" over say, spending $100. Having it consolidated on a bill with a total does show even the little charges add up rather than find your account drained one day because you made 100 $10 transactions that you forgot all about versus that one $1000 transaction for something.
I do it the way the parent describes, and my credit score could not get that much higher. Because I'm getting points or cash back on everything, I run -everything- I can through a credit card. Thus they make more in merchant charges off me than they do off a typical person who pays cash or check for somethings. That's where they get their profit off me, from the higher prices all merchants charge everyone for everything to cover the costs of credit card fees. (But merchants would charge those costs whether I paid cash or check or credit, so the best I can do is use credit and skim the cash back and reward points.)
It doesn't hurt to be nice.
I live in Mexico for nearly 9 years now. Last November my Banamex bankcard got stolen. This was reported in less than an hour at a nearby "sucursal" of Banamex (in the same shopping mall). A few days later my wife and I discovered that about 27,000 MXN (about 2,000 USD) had been withdrawn in two shops in the time between the cards got stolen and reported.
So we went to the bank to report this. We talked to the bank manager (or supervisor), since we had talked to him earlier how to get money. Once your card is blocked you can only get money in the bank with identification, a copy of your contract (which they had on electronic file), and max. 3000 MXN (about 219 USD) for "security reasons" (right). Anyway, he couldn't care less, or that was our impression, but we ended up with a nice lady who really wanted to help us out, but was powerless against the unbelievable crappy way Banamex deals with customers in cases like this.
There are two ways to report incidents like this: the "fast" way: reporting it by phone. And the slow way (or in my current experience the "forget about it" way) by paper. We were allowed to use the bank's phone, so we called Banamex. And called. And were put on hold. And when finally someone who could speak English was found -- I don't speak Spanish very well -- I was put on hold, or got disconnected (again). After 4 (!!!) hours of this we had to leave the bank since they really wanted to close down.
We also went to one of the places they had shopped: Sam's Club. While we asked how it could happen that people could shop with my card the guy told us happily about how cards are cloned. I got the impression he was more into how cool this all was and what not instead of how "cool" is was for us, just before Christmas. Anyway, we learnt that 2 iPads had been bought at Sam's.
The next day we went to the bank building I had opened my account with. After 2 hours of more of the same, and worse; at one point I talked to someone in English who plainly stated she couldn't help me after it had taken nearly 20 minutes to get transferred to her, we decided to take the slower paper route. We filled in a form, I signed it, and hoped for the best. This was the 2nd of December
Right now? Still no money back. Even in Mexico the banks are insured for fraud (Banamex for 72 hrs after theft, if I understand correctly). We have contacted Banamex in every possible way, even via Facebook. I have contacted MasterCard, it's their shiny logo that's on my bankcard, but while they told they would escalate things with Banamex so far nothing has happened... Last resort seems to be CONDUSEF, but this being Mexico I don't have a good feeling about this (I do have some experience with PROFECO; an organizations that seems to "protect" consumer's rights).
What surprises me is the piss-poor "security" of bank cards. They are cloned in seconds, and it wouldn't surprise me if the data is transferred via the Internet to a different location; the trip from the mall were the card was stolen to Sam's Club, where the iPads were bought, takes probably 10+ minutes and what I recall from the time stamps they got there unbelievable fast.
A lot of companies get away with a lot. I don't understand why MasterCard can't put more pressure on Banamex; it's their logo on the card that got stolen. Is this logo just a meaningless shiny sticker? And I don't understand by Banamex behaves this piss poor; they are insured.
Perl Programmer for hire
As U.S. Supreme Court Justice Louis Brandeis said, 'Sunlight Is the Best Disinfectant'
I wonder how many of those complaints are about "HouseHold Bank" or the BestBuy MasterCard?
Issues:
- If you make certain payments (ie: more than 50% or balance due or pay in full or more than 1 payment every 30 days) they will place a 14 day hold on your funds
- Requireing "Rush Fees" even for online payments when made less within 4 days of due date
- $20.00 "cash advance fee" charged because some buisness is on their list as offering "cash transfers" even though the item was NOT for a cash transfer
- If you have a $1000.00 limit, but then end up with a credit (eg: $1200.00), and have a $300.00 hold, your availible balance is still only $700.00. Makes it hard to by a TV or even a 64gb cellular ipad.
BTW... some HSBC cards are being bought out by Capital One... so buyer beware
I hope that this site would allow people to realize what crooks HSBC really are...
I have had all the above happen with me, but it has also happened to MANY others:
http://ficoforums.myfico.com/t5/Credit-Cards/hsbc-payment-hold-anyone-experience-this/td-p/159048/page/1
http://forums.bestbuy.com/t5/BestBuy-Com/hsbc-14-day-hold/td-p/100368
http://www.consumeraffairs.com/finance/hsbc-credit-card.html
> verified the consumer's relationship with the company
Look into the camera citizen.
I have been doing this for 15+ years now (pay off my CC each month (all my reoccurring bills (phone, cable, internet) automatically go to it) and get 1% cash back and No fees. I once got charged interest, I called them up, they said I missed the payment, I asked them to check the dates and sure enough, I was in the range so they refunded the charge no problems.
I get anywhere from $50 to $500 back for the 1% thing each year (usually sometime in July).
You need to keep in mind that although we get charged interest if we don't pay it off in full, the CC companies also charge 3-5% to the merchant where the purchase was made, so the CC company makes money off them at the very least. They get to double dip so having customers like me is just free money for them. Sure, they would love to make the extra % off me too, but, they would rather have the 3-5% (minus 1%) then nothing (as I would just switch my billing to direct payment from my chequing account otherwise).
Twice they have sent me the "We are changing your card to a "blah blah blah" that will have a yearly fee" and twice I called them up and within a few minutes (and explaining I will go to their competition since they are stupid ... yes, that is the language I use) had their "alternate" card with no fees and the same service I already have (1%, etc).... and, btw, my score is somewhere around 820 and my only debt is my mortgage. I have three CCs (two store, one visa -- I don't use the store ones, just got them when I had to make some big purchases and wanted the 10% discount by using the card for the first time (and last time for both)).