Google's Nexus Tablet To Be Unveiled Next Week

zacharye writes "Google chairman Eric Schmidt revealed in December that the company was working on its first own-brand tablet, and the 'Nexus 7' slate will finally be unveiled next week during the Google I/O developer conference, according to multiple reports. The latest reaffirmation comes from DigiTimes, which has reported a number of details surrounding Google's upcoming tablet that will seemingly prove accurate."

Comments

7-inch?

[nurb432]

Smack in the middle of the market that currently B&N and Amazon hold. Seriously, 7" is e-book territory. They should have made an actual tablet. 8" or greater.

Re:7-inch?

[Anonymous Coward]

You're expecting far too much from the product people at GOOG.

Re:7-inch?

[Daetrin]

I think the concern is that 8" or greater would be smack in the middle of the market that Apple currently holds, and there's a lot more brand identification with the iPad than there is with the Nook or Kindle. The Nook and the Kindle have proven that a cheap smaller tablet is salable and competing against them would be easier than competing against the iPad. Not to mention that matching them in price will be a lot easier since they don't have nearly the economy of scale that Apple can pull off with their huge orders of parts.

Also, the company that's supposed to be producing the Nexus 7 already has a very nice line of larger tablets available.

Re:7-inch?

[nurb432]

Nook and kindle exist due to their ecosystem and true brand recognition outside of the 'geek' community. I don't know if what Google has would unseat either of them.

8" would just be the start, for people ( like me ) that feel 7 is too small, but don't want a 9.x to lug around ( unless its color e-ink, then id love 9.x ), but could do like Samsung and have many choices, but still not starting out in the e-book market.

Re:7-inch?

[Maglos]

They own motarola now so why compete with the Xoom; which as an owner I am happy with.

Re:7-inch?

[roc97007]

I haven't bought a tablet yet because I have been waiting for something like this. 7 inches because it will be easy to carry, (the only useful computer is one you have with you) and from a source where I have a chance in hell of ever seeing an OS update. I thought the Samsung Galaxy 7 was my device, but negative experiences with the first Galaxy phone decided me against it.

Re:7-inch?

[noh8rz3]

Bahaha "seven inch is too small. Must be at least eight inch!" that's what she said.

Re:7-inch?

[White Flame]

Rumor has it that the screen resolution will be 1280x800. That's pretty decent for that screen size, and should allow real application content on the screen.

Re:7-inch?

[Daetrin]

I actually quite like my 7" Nook, i can actually stick it in my pocket if i'm wearing cargo pants/shorts. I'm not sure i'd be able to do that if it was much bigger though.

Also, i forgot to mention it above, but i suspect Google is probably quite interested in blunting the momentum of the Kindle Fire if they can. Amazon rolling their own version of Android and cutting Google out of the market and ad loop is perfectly legal under the licensing terms, but that doesn't mean Google is necessarily pleased with the idea.

Re:7-inch?

[suomynonAyletamitlU]

Smack in the middle of the market that currently B&N and Amazon hold.

I think you forget what the Nexus line of devices is. Reference platforms are made, among other reasons, so that the people behind the OS know what they're programming for. If people are already using this form factor (size, approximate resolution, pixel density, aspect ratio, etc), then a Nexus-line device standardizes that. (There is some problem with that when it comes to Android devices, but whatever, you get the point) That (in principle) helps app devs, OS devs, and yes hardware devs too.

I note that they call it the Nexus *7*, which also implies they could be making a Nexus 10, 5, 8, or other screen sizes in the future.

Re:7-inch?

[ganjadude]

who knows, this may be the xoom replacement, might not be any competition

Re:7-inch?

[Anonymous Coward]

Resolution stopped increasing screen real estate a long time ago. Beyond a certain point it doesn't matter for that, only image quality. They aren't shipping me an upgrade for my eyes with the tablet.

Re:7-inch?

[steveha]

I think it is quite clear that Google is on a mission here, and that mission is: ship a compelling tablet at the exact same price as a Kindle Fire.

Would an 8" screen make the tablet more compelling? IMHO, not really.

Would an 8" screen make it harder to hit the $199 price point? Yes. Not only are larger screens more expensive as a general rule, but the massive number of 7" devices already on the market mean that there should be multiple possible sources for a 7" screen, and volumes should help keep the cost down.

Will the Nexus 7 have a retina display? No, absolutely not, because there is no way they could hit the $199 price point.

Will the Nexus 7 have a GPS? Only if it can have a GPS and still hit the $199 price point.

Will the Nexus 7 have a camera? According to one of the linked articles, it will have a forward-facing camera for video conferencing, and will not have a rearward-facing camera to save on costs. As I already have a phone with a rearward-facing camera, a rearward-facing camera isn't that compelling IMHO, and I think Google made exactly the correct call here.

How much flash will it have? As much as it can have while still costing $199. I predict 8 GB.

I think you get the idea.

steveha

Re:7-inch?

[jo42]

7-inch?

They didn't want anything bigger than the biggest penis at GOOG...

Re:7-inch?

[McFadden]

If they decide to make it cellular capable, they could leverage the kinds of subsidies that the carriers offer and build a better tablet but still hit $199. It simply wouldn't make sense for me, with all the hoohah about maps recently, that they would ship a tablet without GPS.

Re:7-inch?

[schroedingers_hat]

The joke is he's pretending you were talking about a penis
...
or vagaina

Re:7-inch?

[hawguy]

Nook and kindle exist due to their ecosystem and true brand recognition outside of the 'geek' community. I don't know if what Google has would unseat either of them.

I think the biggest thing a Google tablet can offer over a Nook/Kindle tablet is the ability to run both the Kindle app and the Nook app on the same device without having to boot into a different operating system.

Re:7-inch?

[Anonymous Coward]

7-inch?

They didn't want anything bigger than the biggest penis at GOOG...

Or anything bigger than you could swallow.

Re:7-inch?

[517714]

Since when are penises measured diagonally?

Re:7-inch?

[ozmanjusri]

You're expecting far too much from the product people at GOOG.

Nick Wingfield, from NY Times, wrote, "With its new tablet, Microsoft will effectively be competing directly with its biggest customers. When asked whether Surface would damage those ties, Steven Sinofsky, the president of Microsoft’s Windows division, gently pushed a reporter in the direction of a stand of Surface tablets and said, "Go learn something.'"

Google's customers are not B&N and Amazon. It is in Google's interest to have many Android vendors, not just a few large ones, and their reference Nexus designs are intended to kickstart competition in the tablet world in much the same way as they have for mobile phones.

If you want to see the real competitive 7" tablet market, search for '7" Allwinner Android'. Go learn something.

Re:7-inch?

[White Flame]

Will the Nexus 7 have a retina display? No, absolutely not, because there is no way they could hit the $199 price point.

At a rumored 1280x800 res at 7", that's 215dpi, which certainly sounds close enough to "retina". Sure, it's a bit lower than what's available now but really does get there. While there's varying speculation about the smaller dimension, the 1280 and 7" are pretty fixed.

Re:7-inch?

[swillden]

Smack in the middle of the market that currently B&N and Amazon hold.

I think you forget what the Nexus line of devices is. Reference platforms are made, among other reasons, so that the people behind the OS know what they're programming for.

In addition, Google has used the Nexus line as a way to combat the tendency of manufacturers to muck Android up with all sorts of "overlays" and modifications that generally do a lot of damage to the user experience. It's just like the tendency of PC vendors to pre-install loads of crapware, but harder to fix. So Google's Nexus devices showcase the "Google Experience" version of Android, in the hopes that users will see just how bad their devices have been screwed up and put pressure on the manufacturers (and carriers), to stop it.

Given what Barnes and Noble and Amazon have done with the Nook and Fire, locking them down, removing all sorts of features, providing only a very limited app store, and just generally making the devices suck as general-purpose tablets in an attempt to lock the users into their respective ecosystems, it seems to me that it's high time for Google to show people how an Android device with that form factor and cost price should work.

(Disclaimer 1: I haven't actually touched a Fire; everything I know about it is second and third-hand. I did, however, try to help my sister root her Nook and work around many of the limitations B&N had built in. The attempt was somewhat successful, but still a pretty poor UX. She ended up returning the Nook and buying a Galaxy Tab 10.1, and is very happy with it, even though it cost significantly more money.)

(Disclaimer 2: I work for Google, but don't work on Android or anything to do with tablets. I do have a Galaxy Tab 10.1 running Honeycomb which I quite like, however. Though I wish Samsung would release the ICS upgrade.)

Re:7-inch?

[klingers48]

Deinitely fine. 1280x800 is a pretty solid compromise for a 7-inch tablet. I've got a 10-inch Acer Iconia with the same resolution and it's fine even at that size.

Re:7-inch?

[Anonymous Coward]

What did you say you helped your sister with?

Re:7-inch?

[Anonymous Coward]

Or, it could just imply that someone at Google was a Blade Runner fan.

Re:7-inch?

[Altus]

or more importantly your fingers. There is a practical minimum physical size for controls on a touch screen.

Re:7-inch?

[klingers48]

It's all subjective, but is the 7" form factor really as viable as people thing for tablet use? I've never found anything smaller than iPad size to meet my needs as a light, portable and *usable* screenless computing device until you get into smartphone territory... Where the game changes. 7" just seems to sit somewhere in the middle. Too big to fit in a pocket or treat like a phone but too small to justify the investment as a usable tablet device. Is it just me?

Re:7-inch?

[strength_of_10_men]

...the biggest penis at GOOG...

It's good to know that you're personally familiar with that kind of information.

Re:7-inch?

[MobileTatsu-NJG]

Where did you think the 6" number came from?

Re:7-inch?

[ruiner13]

the only useful computer is one you have with you

Really? Then how did computers ever make it beyond the server room? Just because you don't value a computer you can't take with you, doesn't mean they aren't useful. Google's search engine runs on computers I don't have with me, and they are somewhat useful.

Re:7-inch?

[steveha]

At a rumored 1280x800 res at 7", that's 215dpi, which certainly sounds close enough to "retina".

That's highly interesting! Apple is now claiming that 220 DPI is a "retina display" for their new MacBook Pro model, so maybe the Nexus 7 will have a "retina display" after all.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retina_display

But it turns out that Apple is trying to trademark "retina display" so maybe we will not be allowed to use that term on the Nexus 7.

1280x800, plus a Tegra 3, means we will be able to watch HD content in 720p. Nice!

steveha

Re:7-inch?

[roc97007]

Don't be obtuse. That's a paraphrase of "the best gun is the one you have on you", referring to having a less capable device actually on your person being better than having a more capable device at home. I do 24 hour on-call, as do a lot of Slashdot participants, and I suspect *they* knew what I meant.

I sometimes use Logmein Ignition to do casual administration rather than carry the laptop everywhere I go. A 7 inch tablet is just about enough screen area to do serious admin, and it's still small enough to fit in my pocket.

Re:7-inch?

[Luckyo]

You have some huge pockets. I have problems fitting 5" "shovelphones" in mine.

Re:7-inch?

[datavirtue]

Ten inch is too big...I want my next tablet to be 7". The smartphone is too small and the tablet is too big. I wasn't surprised to see Microsoft offering a bigger screen on "The Surface" than the iPad. They just do not get it. Oh yeah, now I know why MSFT had "hastily gathered" product launching. They found out about the Google tab and freaked out....like it matters. They are still living in 1995.

Re:7-inch?

[mcrbids]

We have two tablets for my wife and I, an iPad and a 7" Acer Iconia. I much prefer the smaller Iconia, I'm near-sighted, and don't like the extra weight/leverage that the ipad brings. My wife, who's a bit far sighted, prefers the larger screen of the iPad.

Truth? My biggest beef with the iPad is the lack of a universal "back" button. My wife's preference is for the bigger screen. Reality is that either is a truly viable product and I'd recommend either. The iPad offers integration with Apple TV (awesome once you see it!) and the Acer offers a drastically reduced price point.

Re:7-inch?

[datavirtue]

shut up lame ass

Re:7-inch?

[symbolset]

I'm writing this reply on my Asus Transformer TF101. This thing is awesome. My only problem with it is I need to work it one-handed. I need the other hand to hold the flyswatter I need to chase the children away from it. I can't afford Transformers for all. $200 tablets? That I could do.

Re:7-inch?

[Anonymous Coward]

(Disclaimer 2: I work for Google, but don't work on Android or anything to do with tablets. I do have a Galaxy Tab 10.1 running Honeycomb which I quite like, however. Though I wish Samsung would release the ICS upgrade.)

If you really work for Google why don't you flash the tablet with an internal ICS build? You know you can do that, don't you? No need to wait for Samsung to release it.

--
I lost my job thanks to Sundar Pichai's incompetence. Atlanta will never forget, fucking asshole!

Re:7-inch?

[recoiledsnake]

Here is what I learned by Googling that seem to be key differentiators of the 7" Allwinner.

3. My A10 based tablet did not come with market, how can I install Market?

If you are using Gingerbread (Android version 2.3.X) use Tasselhoff's Script. it can be found here
2.3.x Topnotch Tablets A10 scripts download Page

If you are using Ice Cream Sandwich (Android version 4.0.3) use Lordsbm's script. it can be found here
Lordsbm's script for all allwinner A10 tablets

If you are using Ice Cream Sandwich for Android version 4.0.3 you might need to use a 4.0.3 variant to get market. http://www.sappasit.go.th/android/ner_ics4.0.3.zip
(Before flashing you might want to read Question 10 below for script customizations), Onda owners have provided positive feedback thus far for this script.

If you are using 4.0.3 plus and the newtech25 script does not work. The final options is the
XxLorxX Cleaned ICS Script
For most tablets newtech25 seems fine. The Cleaned ICS script should only be used if the above fails. Novo 7A owners have provided positive feedback for this script.

4. My A10 based tablet did not come with Google Maps/other google apps? Can I install it?

If you are using Gingerbread (Android version 2.3.X) use the Automod Script. it can be found here
2.3.x Topnotch Tablets A10 scripts download Page. Beware to _not_ use the build.prop from that script as it's compatability may not be good for all tablets. In that package you will find all the google apps in the apks subdirectory. copy them either into your tablets memory or on an sd card and install them.

If you are using Ice Cream Sandwich (http://www.sappasit.go.th/android/ne...r_ics4.0.3.zip
(Before flashing you might want to read Question 10 below for script customizations)

How is this competitive?

Re:7-inch?

[Anonymous Coward]

> and just generally making the devices suck as general-purpose tablets

They're not designed or sold as general purpose tablets.

Re:7-inch?

[Anonymous Coward]

You're a penis.

Re:7-inch?

[ami.one]

You are probably getting those hits from the few models whose manufacturer's were not preloading Google Play / Market due to initial issues. Currently, almost all good Allwinner A10 tablets have Google Play working and actually perform much better than Samsung Galaxy Tab etc.

I have got 5-6 of these A10 tabs from different manufacturers (for a retail project) and all except one are really good and cost below USD 100. Where they score above the branded ones are that all have a fully functional host USB unlike Samsung Nexus etc which advertise USB OTD but its really iffy. So you can connect a variety of peripherals and also run native ubuntu 12.04 nowdays. (earlier it was only the chrooted linux - see xda for details)

Offcourse, they don't have brand recognition and in fact some have such funny names embossed on them that you would feel embarrassed taking them out in front of anyone ! Allwinner A10 has done an excellent job in getting usable tablets for the low end of the market. The earlier ones like rockchip/via etc were completely unusable.

Re:7-inch?

[LordLucless]

They may not be designed or sold that way, but they have that capacity, if it wasn't locked away from the end-user.

Re:7-inch?

[mjwx]

I actually quite like my 7" Nook, i can actually stick it in my pocket if i'm wearing cargo pants/shorts. I'm not sure i'd be able to do that if it was much bigger though.

I used to believe 7" tablets were too small until I actually used one (an old Samsung P1000) but that changed my mind, the text wasn't too small to read, it's a little bit bigger then an A5 page, which is the standard size for novels. Web pages were fine as was video. Considering that the places where I use my tablet tend to be spaces that are too small for a full sized laptop (such as on the plane) 7" is not a drawback at all with reduced weight and size. If Google and Asus pull this off and deliver a reasonable price point I might eschew my 10" iconia for a Nexus 7 Slate.

Re:7-inch?

[Anonymous Coward]

Here is what I learned by Googling that seem to be key differentiators of the 7" Allwinner.

All you've told us is that you chose to learn only what suited your existing biases.

Other, more sensible people, will choose to save substantial money by buying a good tablet at a very reasonable price.

Re:7-inch?

[jo_ham]

There's nothing about "now claiming" - the definition of Retina Display includes the viewing distance to the screen, so a laptop or desktop doesn't need to be as high a dpi figure to meet the definition, since you view the screen from further away. All that is required is that (for someone with 'perfect' uncorrected vision), the eye cannot distinguish the individual pixels at the standard viewing distance of the screen in question.

For phones and tablets this distance is small than for laptops, hence the MBP's screen being "only" 220 DPI but still counting - at the distance it is viewed from, it does meet the definition.

The much larger screens in the iMac and TB Display are not far off "Retina" already - they're not quite there at the moment, but they don't need to pixel double in both dimensions or anything near that as some people have been suggesting.

For this 7" tablet to have a retina screen at 220 DPI it would need to be viewed at the same distance as the MBP's screen during normal use - which I suppose is possible, but I imagine most people will hold it closer than that.

Re:7-inch?

[peragrin]

damn straight. while 10" tablets are nice for some things fitting on desks while trying to work isn't one of them.

I am looking for an up to date 7" android tablet that doesn't need to be modded and rooted into oblivion to work right.

Re:7-inch?

[Anonymous Coward]

7" is great for kids, especially if it has built in cameras, unlike the nook and kindle.

Re:7-inch?

[wrencherd]

vagaina

Is that the Star Trek creature that sucked all of the salt out of a person's body?

Re:7-inch?

[multipartmixed]

He said cargo pants.

Those are pants whose pockets are made for carrying cargo.

I have a pair. I can put a Blackberry Playbook or a Samsung Galaxy 7" tablet in one hip pocket, and one of those stupid little Apple keyboards in the other.

If I was still doing the remote admin/on-call gig, I would totally buy more cargo pants.

Re:7-inch?

[rullywowr]

I think the biggest thing a Google tablet can offer over a Nook/Kindle tablet is the ability to run both the Kindle app and the Nook app on the same device without having to boot into a different operating system.

THIS. I already do this on my rooted Nook Tablet.

Re:7-inch?

[Merk42]

I wonder if they'll market it as *~Retina~*

Re:7-inch?

[Merk42]

Will the Nexus 7 have a retina display? No, absolutely not, because there is no way they could hit the $199 price point.

Actually, yes.
Given Apple's own formula, a 1280x800 7" device viewed at 15" IS Retina
http://apple.stackexchange.com/questions/44196/does-the-ipad-2012-3rd-generation-have-the-most-pixels-of-any-tablets-displa/44222

Re:7-inch?

[DrXym]

Bigger tablets cost more money. The reasoning is probably to get a good quality 7" tablet out there and sell it as cheaply as possible. Not only does it undercut the iPad but it diverts sales away from Amazon too.

Re:7-inch?

[Anonymous Coward]

the only useful computer is one you have with you

Really? Then how did computers ever make it beyond the server room?

Are you kidding? That's one of the reasons computers got beyond the server room. If it's in the server room, IT'S NOT WITH ME, NOW IS IT!?!

Re:7-inch?

[DrXym]

I have an Allwinner tablet, capacitive, 1GB ram, 8GB flash, 1.2Ghz ARM processor, Mali 400 GPU. It's actually pretty good quality, lasts about 3 or 4 hours. The flash is slow, the screen is a bit washed out and there are few touch glitches in ICS. But it works and it cost me 80 euros. They wholesale for $50 up.

To me it demonstrates that Google should be able to comfortably producing something for under $200 with a better screen and support and still make a lot of money from it. Even if they don't make a lot of money it still seeds the market and stimulates other tablet manufacturers to bring their prices down to the level they should have been at for a long time.

Re:7-inch?

[RenderSeven]

Surprisingly, the Kindle Fire fits (barely) in standard dress pants front or back pocket, sport jacket inside pocket, and motorcycle jacket inside pocket. And it pairs with my phone's 4G hotspot (througgh T-MO) very nicely so the lack of native 4G isnt as restrictive as I'd assumed it would be. It's far more mobile than I thought it would be.

Re:7-inch?

[swillden]

(Disclaimer 2: I work for Google, but don't work on Android or anything to do with tablets. I do have a Galaxy Tab 10.1 running Honeycomb which I quite like, however. Though I wish Samsung would release the ICS upgrade.)

If you really work for Google why don't you flash the tablet with an internal ICS build? You know you can do that, don't you? No need to wait for Samsung to release it.

I'm sure people on the Android team could do it easily. I don't have access to any internal Android builds. I could use one of the builds off the web, but then Google's security policy wouldn't allow me to use it for my corporate e-mail. TechStop (Google's IT support staff) specifically will not do it for me; their web page says that they won't support ICS on the Galaxy Tab it until Samsung releases it.

There's probably a way around all of this if I cared to spend enough time looking, or maybe just go through a friend on the Android team (I have a couple), but it hasn't yet become that important for me.

Re:7-inch?

[swillden]

> and just generally making the devices suck as general-purpose tablets

They're not designed or sold as general purpose tablets.

They may not be sold as general-purpose tablets, but many people want them to be. As for design... other than various software limitations, how is their design not suited to general-purpose use? They're not the beefiest devices, so there are some limitations, but outside of that there is a huge amount that could be done with them.

Re:7-inch?

[nightfell]

In other words, "those guys just bought the wrong ones."

So, how are they supposed to know which one to buy? And why are stores selling such crap in the first place?

Now, go out and buy the wrong iPad. You can't.

Re:7-inch?

[nightfell]

Funny how the supposedly "anticompetitive" Apple product is the one where you can run both, *and* iBooks, yet somehow Android is "more open"...

Re:7-inch?

[Anonymous Coward]

At least I'm not as big a dick as anyone who buys a Surface.

Have you seen it's first public bluescreen yet? Only took a day.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1zxDa3t0fg&feature=share

Re:7-inch?

[voidphoenix]

Wow, you're being a real smart-ass there. How are Google's servers useful to _anyone_ who doesn't have a computer with them? Anything with a web browser counts. Just as some supercomputers are distributed clusters, you can think of the Internet as a distributed computer. If you have your browser handy, then you "have your computer with you" and it's useful.

Re:7-inch?

[Anonymous Coward]

Exactly.

Repeat after me.

Choice is bad.

March in step.

Follow the man in front.

  Use what he uses.

Wear what he wears.

Buy Apple Products

Conform.

Re:7-inch?

[Anonymous Coward]

...the biggest penis at GOOG...

It's good to know that you're personally familiar with that kind of information.

He had to find a substitute after SJ died... ;p

Re:7-inch?

[ArtDent]

"The definition of Retina Display..." Hahahaha, good one!

The definition of Retina Display is "the display on whatever new device Apple is launching."

Apple chooses different resolutions and densities for whatever reason (e.g. we still don't have a framework for resolution-independent graphics, so we're just going to double each dimension), and then calls the result Retina Display.

It's pure marketing BS.

Re:7-inch?

[ArtDent]

A device that comes with thousands of dollars in carrier commitments does not cost $199.

Re:7-inch?

[jo_ham]

"The definition of Retina Display..." Hahahaha, good one!

The definition of Retina Display is "the display on whatever new device Apple is launching."

Apple chooses different resolutions and densities for whatever reason (e.g. we still don't have a framework for resolution-independent graphics, so we're just going to double each dimension), and then calls the result Retina Display.

It's pure marketing BS.

No, it really isn't. Well, it is certainly a marketing *term* used to describe an actual mathematical formula and how it relates to human vision of an object a certain distance away from that human. It's obvious you've not actually done any research on it before dismissing it out of hand as "marketing BS", but it's a huge effort for you "I hated all that mainstream marketing and corporate BS before it was cool to hate them" types to even read the summary of a slashdot article, let alone do any actual googling.

Since it's clearly beyond your abilities to look up (there are some great sites teaching you how to use google you just have to google for them.... oh I see your problem);

Size of object on human retina related by: tan(a/2) = s/2*d

Where a is the viewing angle (the angle subtended by the distance between two pixels), s is the spacing between two pixels (centre to centre or same edge to same edge), and d is the distance from those pixels to your eye. Below a certain threshold for a person with "perfect" vision, the point where it is impossible to distinguish individual pixels on a given display at a particular distance [say, the normal viewing distance for the size of display], that display is termed "Retina".

As you increase d, you can also increase a. In other words, as you move the screen further away the pixel spacing (the DPI of the screen) can increase, and thus it can still be a "Retina" display even if the DPI is lower, since that screen is viewed from further away.

You'll note that Apple also released other notebooks at the same time as the new Retina MBP and did not class those as "Retina" - because they are not.

Claim it's all BS if you like, but from the original introduction of the term by Apple at the launch of the iPhone 4, Apple have not "marketing BS'ed" their way around the original definition they gave (they even included the formula linking the viewing angle and the distance to the screen in the original keynote). Claiming it's "pure marketing BS" just shows your ignorance (or your inability to use google).

There are plenty of reasons for you frothy neckbeards who define themselves by hating a specific company to actually have a genuine beef with Apple - the ridiculous lawsuits are usually a good jumping off point - but the terminology behind the Retina Display is simply not one of them.

Re:7-inch?

[Anonymous Coward]

Nexus 7 ?
It will vanish like tears in rain..

Re:7-inch?

[farble1670]

that anticompetive (notice, no quotes) iOS device doesn't let you purchase books from within the kindle or nook apps. android? no problem.

Re:7-inch?

[nightfell]

Choice is bad.

That's a non sequitur straw man. Choice just isn't necessarily good, and choice for choice's sake doesn't imply anything about overall choices.

Apple limits a small handful of things. These things have a huge impact in overall security and quality, while also only causing a very small amount of inconvenience from the omitted options. On the other hand, because of iOS's greater popularity among consumers and developers alike, there are actually more choices available to the iOS user than there are to the Android user, even though Google places fewer limits on the choices at the outset.

Or, in other words, your trolling is lame.

Re:7-inch?

[nightfell]

that anticompetive (notice, no quotes) iOS device doesn't let you purchase books from within the kindle or nook apps. android? no problem.

Still more choices than the anti-choice (notice, no quotes) Nook or Kindle.

Re:7-inch?

[farble1670]

this discussion is about android tablets, not only nook and kindle. there's a staggering assortment of android tablets available. 5", 7", 8", 9", 10", single core, dual, quad, priced from sub-$100 to $600+, acer, asus, samsung, dell, amazon, motorola, sony, and many others.

but you are right. i guess that's no choice, especially compared to the ipad 1, 2, and 3.

Re:7-inch?

[Anonymous Coward]

So... supposing that it's not marketing BS for Apple, can you point out where Apple actually documents the mathematics of it, or even the viewing distance they are assuming? Personally, my viewing distance depends more on the situation than the kind of device - I can read a laptop screen from 20 cm off, and often look at a phone screen at a distance of 60 cm.

Re:7-inch?

[jo_ham]

Not sure if it's on their site any more, but here is a photo from the keynote given at the launch of the iPad 3's display.

This is a photo of an Apple slide.

http://cdn.iphonehacks.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/apple-new-ipad-retina-display-math.jpg

They are taking the distance "d" to be 10" and 15" (in classic non-SI units!) as typical viewing distances for the iPhone and iPad respectively, but your personal distance may vary - I sit 56 cm away from my iMac's screen (51 cm/20") and I hold my iPhone approximately 38 cm/15" from my eyes (I just measured both).

So, for me I'd be able to get by with a lower dpi screen if I went for a retina smartphone - I think 10" is quite close to hold your phone!

Re:7-inch?

[Anonymous Coward]

Seriously, 7" is e-book territory. They should have made an actual tablet. 8" or greater.

If it doesn't fit in your pocket, then it's competing with laptops and other stuff which is vastly more capable (e.g. has keyboard). 6" diag devices can be used by nearly anyone, anywhere, and 7" is right near the edge. They're going for a larger volume and establishment of a large user base. Are you sure that's dumb?

8" and larger will always be niche devices. You can make money off them (as Apple showed), but most people will see your product, scratch their heads and wonder under what conditions they would use it, and then walk off without a sale ever happening.

And once this stuff gets widely available and maybe with some brand names to tip the people who care about that stuff, even Apple might have trouble selling their huge tablets. I wouldn't be shocked by a smaller iPad appearing some day. Oh wait, they already have one: the iPod touch.

good luck to google

[noh8rz3]

I'm not surprised that they're going to 7" because they need to get out of the ipad shadow. it's a couple reasons - 1) they can't achieve comparable quality at the same price point as the ipad, 2) apple has gobbled up all the components.

The problem is that in the fall apple is releasing an ipad mini which will dominate the 7" space as well. if google is true to form then their announcement this evening will be "look what we're releasing in a couple months" while apple is usually "look what is now available at the apple store."

so in short, good luck to google because i know people there and they try real hard, but they're going to need it!

Re:good luck to google

[Anonymous Coward]

The problem is that in the fall apple is releasing an ipad mini which will dominate the 7" space as well.

A MiniPad?

SO the 10" will be the ... MAxiPad?

I sure hope that Apple can keep their products .... fresh, Otherwise folks will lose interest - especially that time of the month when they release new products.

I seriously don't think Google will be cramping Apple's style, but considering the tech press, well, you never know what they say on their rags.

Then again, Apple does stay on bleeding edge technology.

Re:good luck to google

[MobileTatsu-NJG]

Then again, Apple does stay on bleeding edge technology.

Bleeding edge? Pfftbt. Apple has just taken stuff that already exists, made it smaller, made the features the predecessor advertised actually work with a shiny UI that people can immediately understand and use, addressed real concerns like battery life, and created the template for all their competitors to attempt to imitate.

Re:good luck to google

[Anonymous Coward]

The problem is that in the fall apple is releasing an ipad mini which will dominate the 7" space as well

Unfortunately you got modded down for speaking the truth - on slashdot, modding down is a way for people to say, "what you say is true, but we don't like that it's true".

The actual sales numbers don't lie. In the tablet space, the iPad owns essentially the entire market, with a few little niche players lost in the noise. This tablet will do fine right up until the 7" iPad hits.

Re:good luck to google

[93 Escort Wagon]

I really don't see how - but, somehow, you completely missed what he was doing.

Re:good luck to google

[Anonymous Coward]

Wow, did you really WHOOSH that hard? The AC's entire post was sanitary napkin (pad) and menstrual cycle (period) puns. Bleeding Edge. Keep fresh. That time of the month. Cramping style. The whole post. WHOOSH...

Re:good luck to google

[MobileTatsu-NJG]

Oh I got it. I was just feeling sympathetic to my fellow Slashdot brethren who have girlfriends/wives who like to share details on that topic and offered a distraction.

Re:good luck to google

[noh8rz3]

Some of us slashdotters ARE women, you insensitive clod!

Re:good luck to google

[Anonymous Coward]

Speaking of wooshes, Haterade Addicts like to bring up anti-Apple rants at inappropriate times. All you've done is explain why it's funny!

Re:good luck to google

[MobileTatsu-NJG]

1. Where did I say this?

2. Be honest.. did this topic come at a bad time for you?

Re:good luck to google

[Anonymous Coward]

Evidently everyone who modded you up is also a lonely single dude who didn't get a menstration joke.

Re:good luck to google

[catmistake]

Then again, Apple does stay on bleeding edge technology.

Bleeding edge? Pfftbt. Apple has just taken stuff that already exists, made it smaller, made the features the predecessor advertised actually work with a shiny UI that people can immediately understand and use, addressed real concerns like battery life, and created the template for all their competitors to attempt to imitate.

Thanks for posting, I am in full agreement. All Apple has done was make a few products that don't suck and leverage their marketing and massive sales of these pathetically non-sucky products to make Apple the most recognized brand in the world and the world's richest company. Any company could do this and some company was bound to, and moreso, some company had to do this. Why people are so fascinated by these mundane and trivial accomplishments is also beyond the scope of my own comprehension.

Re:good luck to google

[Anonymous Coward]

Lonely single dudes are the ones that come up with the menstruation jokes. The non-single ones don't find 'no-sex-week' humorous.

Re:good luck to google

[Anonymous Coward]

Looks like somebody hasn't been paying attention :)

Like, what about the best features in iOS 6? Virtually all recycled from Gingerbread... a bit long in the tooth, yeah?

Drop-down notifications are great. Android's had 'em for years already. Widgets? You'll eventually see that on iOS too.. years late. Same with ad-blocking -- NOT! But I enjoy that feature, and Android gives the choice. Want a better browser? Go ahead, take your pick. Not just recycled Safari crap either. Might get that on iOS too someday, and I really hope you do. Pattern-locking? It'll happen eventually too.

To be perfectly fair, iOS has hundreds of thousands more fart apps than Android. Looks like we lost that contest by an avalanche.

Re:good luck to google

[MacDork]

Then again, Apple does stay on bleeding edge technology.

Bleeding edge? Pfftbt. Apple has just taken stuff that already exists,

Apple invents too. Look at firewire... oh.

made it smaller,

The iPhone is too small. Don't worry, they'll follow the industry's lead and make it bigger.

made the features the predecessor advertised

Imitates competitors, yes.

actually work

Removed 90% of the feature and made the last 10% 'so easy' to use.

with a shiny UI that people can immediately understand and use,

Uh, yeah. Ever played with Automator? :-)

addressed real concerns like battery life,

Underclock their chips when running on battery.

and created the template for all their competitors to attempt to imitate.

After being guilty of said imitation themselves? These great templates... they didn't spring fully formed from the inspiration of some god. Sounds like someone doesn't believe in evolution boys... Get him! ;-)

Re:good luck to google

[Anonymous Coward]

You do know that before the iPhone, Android resembled Blackberry, right?

Re:good luck to google

[Anonymous Coward]

Lonely single dudes are the ones that come up with the menstruation jokes. The non-single ones don't find 'no-sex-week' humorous.

I just don't give a shit (neither does she.)

Re:good luck to google

[datavirtue]

You just murdered their whole marketing campaign you insensitive clod!

Re:good luck to google

[datavirtue]

Yeah, especially when you're getting attacked during "no-sex-week," ewww! Red wings? Nah. I'll wait.

Re:good luck to google

[Anonymous Coward]

You do know that before the iPhone, Android resembled Blackberry, right?

You do know there were 2 Android devices, right?

Re:good luck to google

[Anonymous Coward]

Mod parent down please.

Re:good luck to google

[MobileTatsu-NJG]

Ah, caught your mistake I see. Coulda been a lil classier about it.

Re:good luck to google

[Anonymous Coward]

to make Apple the most recognized brand in the world

ITYM Coca-Cola.

Go into the fetid, dank mangroves of Senegal. Show the first person you meet two logos.

Re:good luck to google

[voidphoenix]

A MiniPad?

SO the 10" will be the ... MAxiPad?

I sure hope that Apple can keep their products .... fresh, Otherwise folks will lose interest - especially that time of the month when they release new products.

I seriously don't think Google will be cramping Apple's style, but considering the tech press, well, you never know what they say on their rags.

Then again, Apple does stay on bleeding edge technology.

I can't wait for the New iPad with Wings(tm)

Re:good luck to google

[catmistake]

to make Apple the most recognized brand in the world

ITYM Coca-Cola.

Go into the fetid, dank mangroves of Senegal. Show the first person you meet two logos.

As of May 2011, Apple is indeed the world's most recognized brand... overtook Coca-Cola some time ago.

citation 1

citation 2

Coca-Cola is now about 8th. FWIW Apple has about 4 times in cash than Senegal's GNP. Point is, I think you may want to find a better measuring stick as brand recognition in Senegal is nearly meaningless.

Next week?

[Anonymous Coward]

I thought it had been out for a long time already!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5e9thla3cko

Interesting times

[Anonymous Coward]

It appears that things are cheap enough that pretty much anyone can go to China and get a tablet built. So, if the magic isn't in the hardware it must be in the software or maybe the real magic is in the content and services. What does this mean for OEMs like HTC and Samsung? They don't have search or email or any services.

Makes me wonder...

[steelfood]

...if all this noise from Microsoft was trying to preempt all of the press that Google's announcement would generate using their own announcement. It explains why Microsoft's seemed premature.

Re:Makes me wonder...

[supremebob]

I wonder if Google can make it through their tablet presentation without one of their tablets locking up in the middle of a browser demo...

Re:Makes me wonder...

[Anonymous Coward]

...if all this noise from Microsoft was trying to preempt all of the press that Google's announcement would generate using their own announcement. It explains why Microsoft's seemed premature.

Kind of like what Google did with maps ahead of WWDC?

Re:Makes me wonder...

[Eponymous Coward]

I think Microsoft has actually done something smart this time.

Apple and Amazon are fighting it out in the consumer space. They are the only two tablet makers that have sold significant numbers. The enterprise market hasn't picked a winner yet and I think Microsoft realizes that if they don't make a grab for it now, they are going to have a much bigger fight for it next year.

Re:Makes me wonder...

[Altus]

Of course the tablet probably won't actually ship till next year, but by making an announcement now maybe they can stall buyers from investing in another platform and instead waiting around to see what microsoft eventually puts on the market.

In other words, business as usual.

Re:Makes me wonder...

[Eponymous Coward]

Interesting point. I assumed that these things were going to be shipping with Windows 8 later this year. The hardware certainly isn't pushing any boundaries so I don't see why they won't be ready later this year.

Re:Makes me wonder...

[Altus]

Yea, they might make the end of the year, but the fact that they won't commit to that makes me wonder. Microsoft has a history long delivery time.

More to the point though, 6 months out or 9 months out, they only announced the tablet to try to seal googles thunder and to try to slow the iPads inroads into enterprises.

Re:Makes me wonder...

[xtrafe]

Oh, I think they did something smarter than that.

Having benefited from a Series 7 Slate loaded with the procession of Windows 8 since January, I can honestly say now I 'get' Win8. I have a tablet big enough to be a tablet, and then I throw it into a dock and have a full-blown PC, replete with all my desktop applications-- no syncing, no fuss, one set of applications, and a generally seamless experience. I know this is giving them too much credit, but it seems to make sense that they'd call their tablets 'Surface' as well as the up-'til-now-silly table. Tablet, TV, Table, Phone... it should all just be one platform: Surface (If you go with Microsoft's option). Which brings me to my point:

Apple has to get iPad and iOS up to par with desktop, but at least they have a shot. Microsoft actually stands to be ahead. Google is is releasing a 7" tablet? Now?! That's big news? That's idiotic. This is sad for me, since Android is by far my favorite mobile platform to develop for.

Google doesn't have desktop OS play. ChromeOS flopped. I don't want all my apps in the cloud, fuckyouverymuch. If Google doesn't make a grab for some serious traction in the tablet market with a translation to a full desktop experience _right now_, Android will be budget-phones only in 5 years. Up 'til now I'd rip on M$ with the best of 'em. I fear after this posting I'm gonna have my /. licence revoked. Still, it needed to be said.

Re:Makes me wonder...

[Eponymous Coward]

I think there's more than one market for tablets.

The enthusiast and corporate market want something that lets them do everything they could do on their desktop.

The broad consumer market likes their phones and hates their (Windows) laptops. They want their laptop to be more like their phone, not the other way around. Apple is chasing this market and it looks like they are making OSX more like iOS with each major release.

I really don't know why the new Windows tablets are going to turn things around for Microsoft. Windows tablets have been available for years now and some of them are very good. If you want the extra battery life and thinness that an ARM tablet gives you, then wait. If you want an x86 tablet, why not just buy one now and load Windows 8 on it later? For corporations, the current crop of Windows tablets may actually be a better choice than the locked down ones coming from Microsoft this fall.

Microsoft's biggest problem is that they have lost too many developers. WP7 was a flop and I'm not sure WP8 does much to turn that around.

Re:Makes me wonder...

[Eponymous Coward]

There are already lots of Windows tablets on the market that are arguably more enterprise-compatible than the iPad and maybe even more suitable than Windows 8 tablets that lack AD integration (and yeah, I know about Active Sync).

Why is a Windows 8 tablet so much better for business use than a Windows 7 tablet? Both are already better than an iPad, right?

Improve security please!

[GeneralTurgidson]

Google needs to seriously rethink their security model. You shouldn't need an AV client on your mobile device. I know my organization does not allow android devices access to company info, even with MDM software on the phone.

Re:Improve security please!

[Anonymous Coward]

Do they allow windows computers? If so that is a hell of a double standard.

Re:Improve security please!

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually... (sorry apple fan boys) Android's security is much better than the iPhones. (Their web browser doesn't run as root first of all)

The DoD uses Android, and has for years, but only finally in the past couple months has approved any version (and not even the consumer version) viable for military use. you don't NEED to have an anti-virus, that is a joke... the AV companies just want you to think you do. Though Having one to scan inbound email attachments, downloaded files/etc isn't a BAD thing by any means, but ehh...

The Android security policies aren't an issue... It is people installing applications that allow reading from the SDcard/Contacts/etc and full internet access.

Android gives people more freedom, unfortunately that means more people hang themselves with that rope... that isn't Android's fault. Also means your organization is smart enough not to trust you to use the device securely.

Re:Improve security please!

[farble1670]

you don't need an AV client on android. in fact, all they do is compare applications you install against a blacklist. all they can do is warn you about blacklisted apps. that's it.

the security model of android (and many other operating systems) sandboxes apps. an app can't access any other app's data unless some special arrangement is made between them.

every android app is required to state the permissions it requires to run (internet, location, etc). these are presented to the user before they install an application.

users must actively allow applications to be installed outside of the android market.

Re:Improve security please!

[DogDude]

I don't know about that. I have a Windows Phone, and every time there's been a widespread security concern in the past few months, it's been for the i* and Android, but NOT the Windows phones, because, as I've been told and read, that Windows Phone was the only one out of the three that *really* sandboxes 3rd party applications. I'm confused.

Re:Improve security please!

[LordLucless]

What qualitative differences are there between general purpose computers, and mobile general purpose computers, that should makes mobile computing immune to malicious software?

It's a trade-off. Either you are allowed to install anything on your device, and are willing to wear the consequences, or you're not, and can choose from an accepted white-list of products that a trusted third party has validated clean. I can understand why some consumers choose to be limited (especially business consumers), but saying that one choice is better than another is just stupid.

And actually, when it comes to technical measures, Android's security is better, and more finely grained than iOS. iOS security model revolves around the idea that bad apps won't be running, because Apple will have stopped them being installed in the first place.

Re:Improve security please!

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually... (sorry apple fan boys) Android's security is much better than the iPhones. (Their web browser doesn't run as root first of all)

The DoD uses Android, and has for years, but only finally in the past couple months has approved any version (and not even the consumer version) viable for military use. you don't NEED to have an anti-virus, that is a joke... the AV companies just want you to think you do. Though Having one to scan inbound email attachments, downloaded files/etc isn't a BAD thing by any means, but ehh...

The Android security policies aren't an issue... It is people installing applications that allow reading from the SDcard/Contacts/etc and full internet access.

Android gives people more freedom, unfortunately that means more people hang themselves with that rope... that isn't Android's fault. Also means your organization is smart enough not to trust you to use the device securely.

If this were written about Microsoft or Apple the word you'd hear back is "Apologist."

Re:Improve security please!

[Anonymous Coward]

For YEARS? Er uh no.

Re:Improve security please!

[CastrTroy]

Yeah, it really is just stupid users. I saw a "trending" game on the app store one day. It was basically an emulated copy of Mario Kart 64. However, it required just about every permission it could ask for. A ton of the comments where saying that it was a virus/spyware/malware, but "THE SAME USERS" were claiming that it was pretty good anyway, and that people should get this version, because it played better than any of the other versions out there. People are seriously so stupid. They get what they deserve.

Re:Improve security please!

[Anonymous Coward]

Windows computers are only allowed provisionally until they can be replaced with iPads.

PS: "Android is just as shitty as Windows" isn't really a smart argument for the platform.

Re:Improve security please!

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually... (sorry apple fan boys) Android's security is much better than the iPhones. (Their web browser doesn't run as root first of all)

Mobile Safari hasn't run as root since iOS 3.0 (or perhaps even 2.0). For more information about iOS security, see
this white paper for a rather comprehensive overview of modern iOS security features: http://images.apple.com/ipad/business/docs/iOS_Security_May12.pdf

Things have changed quite a lot over the last few major iOS releases.

Re:Improve security please!

[Anonymous Coward]

Do they allow windows computers? If so that is a hell of a double standard.

Hahaha...yeah well let me know when Android devices start getting timely updates to actually fix the bugs.

Re:Improve security please!

[exomondo]

I would think the update process needs to be improved from a security perspective. My understanding is that it is solely tied to the device manufacturer, that if Google releases an update (of any kind) it's completely up to the OEM as to whether you get that? To me that sounds like a significant security concern, or am I incorrect on that?
I know there is a large community around modding so there's always that route if your device is popular I suppose (and able to be boot loader unlocked).

So I guess the question is if updates are solely tied to the manufacturer then which one is best to go with?
And if the community is a better option then which model(s) are best supported in the modding community?

Re:Improve security please!

[DeathFromSomewhere]

And you don't seem to think that it's a problem that an obvious spyware / copyright infringement app was trending in the official app store?

Re:Improve security please!

[Anonymous Coward]

Yep, something like that would never happen in a more tightly controlled appstore... Oh, wait.

Re:Improve security please!

[Anonymous Coward]

You can mod my post down if you like, but my point still stands: You can't claim Android has a better security model then talk about how users fall into traps because it's soooOOOOoooo free. Sorry, this is clearly Apologism at work!

Re:Improve security please!

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm missing the part where the app took your contact list and uploaded it to who knows where and then racked up a phone bill. Or maybe you didn't read the conversation.

Re:Improve security please!

[Anonymous Coward]

Pretty sure any app in appstore could simply take your contact list and upload it wherever it wants even without a courtesy of asking user first until recent rules update after a few scandals, so you'd better grab a proxy and check that all apps you've got behave.

You're right on the second part, and it only serves to prove you can't cure stupid - to upload your contact list you don't need any permission out of usual (or no permissions at all on iOS), but to rack up your phone bill app has to clearly state that it call paid numbers before install.

Re:Improve security please!

[Luckyo]

Windows phone is the desktop linux of mobile phones. It's simply so rare in the wild that it makes no sense to try to own it, as it will cost more to do so then realistic gains.

Re:Improve security please!

[hughk]

Android does warn users but still some vendors managed to slip some bad applications through that would do bad things on network and CPU usage (battery drain), some even sending premium rate SMSs (they have been banned).

OTOH, root access does allow you to firewall particularly noisy apps, if not explicitly block access via the hosts file.

Re:Improve security please!

[Anonymous Coward]

Windows phone is the desktop linux of mobile phones. It's simply so rare in the wild that it makes no sense to try to own it, as it will cost more to do so then realistic gains.

Though I agree with you, it is interesting how the market share argument gets turned around against Microsoft regardless of high/low share. It has been argued very strongly on this site (not saying by you) that low market share is not the reason for so few malware targeting Apple and Linux. The 'market share' argument has been called a complete myth. But when it comes to Windows Phone, it seems to be the accepted reason for no malware.

Re:Improve security please!

[DogDude]

I own a Windows Phone, and it makes no difference to me whether anybody else owns one or not. It cost me $50 with a cell phone contract renewal.

Re:Improve security please!

[nightfell]

It's a trade-off. Either you are allowed to install anything on your device, and are willing to wear the consequences, or you're not, and can choose from an accepted white-list of products that a trusted third party has validated clean. I can understand why some consumers choose to be limited (especially business consumers),

iOS is hardly "limited". In fact, it provides significantly more options for the customer than Android does, in spite of these limits. The actual limits amount to a very small amount of software being outright prevented from being available. But when you write the word without qualification, small limits and draconian limits both can be described by the exact same word, "limited", making them sound equivalent, which they aren't.

And this is the best part of your post:

but saying that one choice is better than another is just stupid.

Which is immediately followed by:

And actually, when it comes to technical measures, Android's security is better,

HA!

Anyway, when it comes to actual measures, iOS's security is better, because it actually works in practice. What's preferable, security that is theoretically better, or security that is actually better in practice? I'll take actual security over theoretical security any day. That's also why Macs are more secure than Windows, even though we've been hearing for years now how Microsoft's security is "so much better" than Apple's. What good does that do for the user if all the pwnage is happening on the supposedly "secure" system, and next to none on the supposedly lacking one?

Same goes with iOS vs Android.

and more finely grained than iOS. iOS security model revolves around the idea that bad apps won't be running, because Apple will have stopped them being installed in the first place.

On iOS 6, Apple is adding much greater granularity with regards to data access permissions. And unlike what you see on Android apps, you won't end up with a WTF? list of permissions requests, like games wanting full access to your SMS system.

Re:Improve security please!

[DeathFromSomewhere]

I don't own an iDevice, not sure why you think I do. "It happens on the AppStore too!" is not a valid excuse for crap.

Re:Improve security please!

[scot4875]

On iOS 6, Apple is adding much greater granularity with regards to data access permissions.

Woo hoo! At some point in the future, Apple devices will finally have a feature that Android has had since inception! And it will be even better! What a huge win for Apple!

Until then, you're at the mercy of Apple's gatekeepers to make sure that nothing bad gets in, because as a user, you have absolutely no clue what the software you download is doing.

--Jeremy

Re:Improve security please!

[farble1670]

dear confused,

sandboxing can't protect you against phishing attacks, on any platform, no matter what the security. if i can get you to download my fake bank of america application and enter your user name and password, i've got you. if you can get a user to come to your 3rd party app store / web site and install malicious apps, there's not much any OS can do to help you.

i guess you could say iOS protects against this by not allowing apps to be installed outside of their appstore. i don't know about WP. personally i'd rather have the option.

Re:Improve security please!

[farble1670]

well ... vendors has a special interest in not putting poorly written apps. if they hurt your battery life, it makes they phones look crappy ... and they make money off the phones, not the software.

i don't dispute you can do some nice protection schemes on a rooted device, but you can also some nasty things. if you can get the user to grant you root access you can read data from anywhere on the device, read the state of memory, or snoop network traffic. so yeah, rooting is not for everyone.

Re:Improve security please!

[nightfell]

On iOS 6, Apple is adding much greater granularity with regards to data access permissions.

Woo hoo! At some point in the future, Apple devices will finally have a feature that Android has had since inception! And it will be even better! What a huge win for Apple!

And it's long overdue. But you're right, it's coming, it's better, and it's a huge win for Apple (and more importantly, Apple's customers).

Until then, you're at the mercy of Apple's gatekeepers to make sure that nothing bad gets in, because as a user, you have absolutely no clue what the software you download is doing.

Apple's been a great gatekeeper so far. I see no reason to think anything's changed in that regard. Besides, there are presently ways (without jailbreaking) to find out what an app is doing (which Apple does currently check for during testing as well), so your implication that apps are doing nefarious things is incorrect.

How did Microsoft's seem premature?

[SuperKendall]

I thought Microsoft's presentation was amazingly polished and well put together. I didn't feel at all like it was rushed together.

Compare and contrast with Google's map presentation a week or so ago. Presenters could not talk without looking at notes every other sentence (watch the guy and the end bobbing his head down constantly). A bunch of filler content to make up for the fact they were just talking about a Google Earth update.

It's good to see real competition in the tablet space heat up.

Re:How did Microsoft's seem premature?

[Missing.Matter]

He's probably referring to the lack of concrete details in terms of release date and pricing. Then again, Microsoft tends to release information early without notions of availability and price, as is the case with Windows 8... we know it's coming, we just don't know when and for how much.

Re:How did Microsoft's seem premature?

[SuperKendall]

It's true that the didn't give price, but I thought they mentioned tying the release to the Windows 8 release.

They gave a rough estimate of the price though - it sounded like the ARM version was around the price of an iPad, while the x86 version was probably around the price of the Air.

Re:How did Microsoft's seem premature?

[Missing.Matter]

Yeah they were vague but it's pretty easy to predict the timeline. My prediction: Windows 8 will go RTM in July, retail in October along with the Surface, and Surface Pro will be released in January. Surface will start at $599 at 32GB and Surface Pro will start at $899.

Sounds pretty!

[Random Data]

I want one, just so I can call it Rachael.

Re:Sounds pretty!

[Anonymous Coward]

No benchmark of this tablet will be complete without mentioning how it does on a Voight-Kampf test.

Nexus 7

[Anonymous Coward]

Reminds me of Blade Runner.

So...

[slasho81]

So basically, this post is news that we'll have some news next week. Very informative. Thank you.

Re:So...

[whoop]

Not only that, but someone on the inside has leaked out that during this Google I/O thing, information will come out about something! This is astounding! I thought Google I/O was going to go by with no announcements of any sort. So, seeing this, it just blows my mind.

What will Google do next???

BTW, why not throw in a leak that Jelly Bean (or whatever is next) info will be given out too. Ice Cream Sandwich is 8 months old now, so information should be pretty soon.

Re:So...

[exomondo]

Oh come on, you know we can only trust leaks from anonymous sources close to google!

Narrower edges.

[PepsiMax]

When will anybody release a tablet with very narrow edges. A lot of potential screen area is taken by the edges.

Re:Narrower edges.

[Anonymous Coward]

You mean the bezel? People take a bit of bezel in exchange for a thinner device. They've got to stuff components somewhere!

Only Android

[SuperKendall]

it's been for the i* and Android, but NOT the Windows phones

No, not for iOS devices either...

It's been for Android because they don't care what app stores you use, and have a permission model that asks for permissions around resources before you have any context or understanding of why it's asking for what permission.

iOS has just as good an application sandbox as Windows Phone.

Re:Only Android

[scot4875]

I've got one word for you and your ignorance: Pokemon. Look it up.

--Jeremy

You'll notice that this scanner, Bill... whoa.

[tepples]

I wonder if Google can make it through their tablet presentation without one of their tablets locking up

Any more than, say, "Let's plug it in" back in 1998?

Re:You'll notice that this scanner, Bill... whoa.

[Anonymous Coward]

Sigh.
Actually he was referring to the Surface preview. The tablet locked up on Ballmer and he had to get another one.

Generally I'm surprised it doesn't happen in all their demos.

Re:You'll notice that this scanner, Bill... whoa.

[citizenr]

I wonder if Google can make it through their tablet presentation without one of their tablets locking up

Any more than, say, "Let's plug it in" back in 1998?

and dont try to talk to your tablet http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=klU2zt1KdUY

Not fine-grained enough

[tepples]

an app can't access any other app's data unless some special arrangement is made between them.

Except it's not possible under Android to make such arrangements fine-grained enough to be both secure and useful. Either a program has full read and write privileges on the mass storage or it has none; there is no middle ground as I understand it.

Re:Not fine-grained enough

[farble1670]

Except it's not possible under Android to make such arrangements fine-grained enough to be both secure and useful. Either a program has full read and write privileges on the mass storage or it has none; there is no middle ground as I understand it.

it's well known and documented that android apps must never put secure data on the SD card (ext. storage) without taking other provisions to protect it like encryption. secure data should be stored in the app's "data" space. SD cards are FAT formatted and don't offer the facilities to protect the data.

android apps can never* simply read each other's data over the file system. one app needs to expose it through a special component called a content provider.

* unless they do something funny like run as the same user ID, which is not possible for non-system applications.

I accidentally the whole SD card.

[tepples]

Android's security is better, and more finely grained than iOS.

The Android devices that I've tried have the internal memory partitioned into about half a GB for "system" and the rest for "storage", and every application with the permission to read and write storage can read and write all of storage. There's no way to limit an Android application to only one specific folder on storage.

Re:I accidentally the whole SD card.

[LordLucless]

Yeah, which enables apps to do things like load up and modify files they didn't create, just as they can on a general-purpose computer. It's part of that trade-off I mentioned. Android apps are compelled to tell you exactly what they want permissions to do; you can make your own decision as to whether you trust an app with those permissions. iOS apps don't provide you with that information, but are all governed by the default permissions enforced by Apple.

I agree it might be nice to have two separate permissions: "access sandbox storage" and "access global storage", or some such, but I imagine the demand for that sort of feature is fairly low.

Good, now market it

[Darkness404]

This is good news, most of Google's hardware/software things are pretty awesome, but are marketed pathetically. Such as the Nexus series of phones. The Nexus Galaxy was a bit better with marketing, but they should have gone for all of the "big 4".

Please Google, sell this in retail stores all around, Best Buy, Wal-Mart, Target, etc. and don't make this be such a niche product where you have to order online and hope its as good as the reviews say.

Google has an advantage to all the rest of the tablets: it actually updates its stuff. I've got an Android phone I love (Samsung Captivate Glide) but annoyed at the fact that it /still/ has not received Ice Cream Sandwich. I suppose I'll root it eventually, but I'll keep the warranty... for now.

A place to hold the tablet

[tepples]

The bezel gives the user a place to hold the tablet without activating on-screen controls.

Re:A place to hold the tablet

[PCM2]

The bezel gives the user a place to hold the tablet without activating on-screen controls.

And in my experience, if you get fidgety (say, you're watching a feature-length movie on Netflix) that's not always enough.

You got it backwards

[goombah99]

...if all this noise from Microsoft was trying to preempt all of the press that Google's announcement would generate using their own announcement. It explains why Microsoft's seemed premature.

Going after microsoft in announcements always made google seem awesome simply because up until recently microsoft always came out on stage and stepped on it's own dick. Then they did the surface tablet and... well even as an apple user I'm jealous of that keyboard cover. That was sheer genius. And it's shocking Apple, with all those hyper clever people, overlooked that perfect idea. and the tablet looks pretty substantial too.

Re:You got it backwards

[Anonymous Coward]

Given a choice between typing on the screen and typing on that $2 rollup keyboard glued to sheet metal I would chose to use the screen.

There are several keyboard/folios for both Android tablets and iPads which are far superior to that piece of ... well if I called it shit , then shit would get mad at me.

In fact coming with this keyboard it is almost guaranteed that other manufacturers will not be making keyboard folios for the Surface.

Re:You got it backwards

[goombah99]

the thing about it is you always have it with you. you can get a keyboard folio for it because the blue tooth ones should work for both.

Dream Tablet

[ad454]

Although I love my iPad3 64GB and its retina display that really is indispensable for document reading, web, e-mail, etc., the iPad3 still has a lot of shortcomings.

If I was to design my dream tablet-phone it would have:

* Wi-Fi, 4G, GSM + CDMA (including audio for phone calls), BlueTooth, and NFC (with security element for Wallet and Authentication)
* 7 inch size, which fits nicely in my purse and eliminates the need to carry a separate tablet
* edge-to-edge-to-edge OLED display without any bezel
* "retina" resolution, well beyond 1080p, Apple has shown this is needed
* GPS (with offline turn-by-turn maps)
* true USB host support, none of this restrictive camera connection kit garbage
* mini-SD slot
* HMDI-out slot
* kick-stand + thin smart-cover like keyboard, like those in new Microsoft Surface Tablets
* pointy stylus, like Samsung Note
* high quality and high resolution rear camera with LED flash, and works in low light (indoors), supports RAW photos and 1080p video
* 64GB min flash

I would be okay with iOS, Android, and maybe Windows, provided that there is enough decent apps, and one can get access to the underlying OS (via jailbreak/root).

Re:Dream Tablet

[Anonymous Coward]

* "retina" resolution, well beyond 1080p, Apple has shown this is needed

No, Apple's "retina" resolution is only 264 PPI; on a 7" screen that would be 1600x900 (16:9) or 1500x1100ish (4:3).

And that was actually Fujitsu who "has shown this is needed", with the U2010, which had a 1280x800 5.6" screen with essentially the same resolution (270 PPI) -- 4 years ago.

Re:Dream Tablet

[exomondo]

* 7 inch size, which fits nicely in my purse and eliminates the need to carry a separate tablet
* "retina" resolution, well beyond 1080p, Apple has shown this is needed

Why would you need something "well beyond" 1080p on a 7" tablet?

Re:Dream Tablet

[ad454]

Why would you need something "well beyond" 1080p on a 7" tablet?

Not everyone is blind. My eyes have no problems seeing individual pixels on my iPad3.

I read a lot of PDF data sheets, and retina quality display lets me view and read entire pages with pinching and zooming.

1080p not enough on a tablet with an edge-to-edge-to-edge display and no bezel, if the DPI is to match the ipad3.

Hardware buttons can be placed on the edges, as is the case with power, volume, ...

Re:Dream Tablet

[exomondo]

Not everyone is blind.

Thanks captain obvious.

My eyes have no problems seeing individual pixels on my iPad3.

Well, if i've got the math right then 1080p on a 7" screen is significantly higher than the iPad3. So what distance do you have between your eyes and the screen and what PPI do you want?

I read a lot of PDF data sheets, and retina quality display lets me view and read entire pages with pinching and zooming.

Retina display doesn't do anything for pinching and zooming, you can pinch and zoom on any kind of capacitive display, retina or not.

1080p not enough on a tablet with an edge-to-edge-to-edge display and no bezel, if the DPI is to match the ipad3.

Actually it will significantly exceed the iPad 3...so tell me what PPI do you need?

Re:Dream Tablet

[Luckyo]

Indeed, you are correct, your problem is not one that ophthalmologist could fix. You need a psychiatrist. Exomondo has the details.

Re:Dream Tablet

[Anonymous Coward]

I would imagine he/she is big customer of monster cables too, because not everyone is deaf you know ;)

Re:Dream Tablet

[melted]

You forgot to mention that you're only willing to pay $200 or less for all of that. :-)

Re:Dream Tablet

[Anonymous Coward]

Not everyone is blind.

Yeah that statement right there tells me your post is full of shit, "not everyone has less than the absolute physical limit of retina acuity, and anyone that does i consider to be blind"...wanker

Re:Dream Tablet

[Anonymous Coward]

You do realise that in about a month Samsung is going to release their Note 10.1 which will come with a "pointy stylus".

Re:Dream Tablet

[TwentyCharsIsNotEnou]

* edge-to-edge-to-edge OLED display without any bezel

How would you hold it?

Re:Dream Tablet

[Anonymous Coward]

* edge-to-edge-to-edge OLED display without any bezel

How in hell would you hold this thing if it's entire front surface is a touch screen?

Underpowered wifi

[Anonymous Coward]

I hope it has underpowered wifi just like the galaxy nexus, and they charge a restocking fee when customers return it.

infor8ative tacoTaco

[Anonymous Coward]

paper towels bombshe7l hit has steadily MAKES ME S8ICK JUST

You Nexus 7, Huh?

[cstacy]

I only do "i"s.

Re:You Nexus 7, Huh?

[mjwx]

I only do "i"s.

Sir, if I only had mod points.

What are the real uses?

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't mean to troll here but I have not found anything in these touch pads that I could honestly use in everyday life.
I got a free one from attending a product rollout and besides installing a bunch of swiss knife like apps my Samsung Galaxy SII is more functional.

Sure they make great e-readers but what else?

stone crushers

[Anonymous Coward]

Shanghai Shunky Machinery Co.,ltd is a famous manufacturer of crushing and screening equipments in China. We provide our customers complete crushing plant, including cone crusher, jaw crusher, impact crusher, VSI sand making machine, mobile crusher and vibrating screen. What we provide is not just the high value-added products, but also the first class service team and problems solution suggestions. Our crushers are widely used in the fundamental construction projects. The complete crushing plants are exported to Russia, Mongolia, middle Asia, Africa and other regions around the world.
http://www.sandmaker.biz
http://www.shunkycrusher.com
http://www.jaw-breaker.org
http://www.jawcrusher.hk
http://www.c-crusher.net
http://www.sandmakingplant.net
http://www.vibrating-screen.biz
http://www.mcrushingstation.com
http://www.cnstonecrusher.com
http://www.cnimpactcrusher.com
http://www.Vibrating-screen.cn
http://www.stoneproductionline.com
http://www.hydraulicconecrusher.net

Good to hear an incept date

[Anonymous Coward]

Hopefully these will work out better than those flaky Nexus 6's.
__
Enjoy a new life in the offworld colonies!

Re:Good to hear an incept date

[Anonymous Coward]

The leisure model of Nexus 6 sure looked a lot better, though.

It seems to have started shipping

[Anonymous Coward]

FIY floks
[url]http://www.gsmarena.com/the_nexus_tablet_has_reportedly_started_shipping_lacks_3g_or_lte-news-4410.php[/url]

OSS FTW!

[Anonymous Coward]

Hurray for open source!

Wait, what? It's Google, OPEN right?

That's why Steve made the little silver apples

[wrencherd]

After looking at all of the ipads, galaxy media players and ereaders, I went cheap and got an ipod touch.

It may be walled, but it's a good kind of walled (and each of us already has a secret garden inside anyway).

Seriously though, the laptop is best for work and tv-substitute at home, IMHO; otherwise, for that on-the-go crap the ipod touch seems more than adequate (in a non-double-entendre kind of way). I don't know why the world needs more "in-betweens".

Re:7-inch? yes!

[IBitOBear]

I am diging the 7-inch. I have a 7 inch Galaxy Tab and it is -exactly- the right size to actually carry in a coat pocket, or the back pocket of jeans as long as you remember to move it before you sit. I bigger format is not something I would carry everywhere the way I can carry a 7-inch tab.

I will totally look at upgrading to this since the Galaxy Tab was abandoned by Samsung as far as updates.

I didn't switch to any of the 8-or-larger formats because they really -aren't- go anywhere devices.

Choose a file or folder to modify

[tepples]

Yeah, which enables apps to do things like load up and modify files they didn't create, just as they can on a general-purpose computer.

Ideally, the end user would tell the application what files and folders it is allowed to modify through a file chooser displayed by a secure system process. That's what the OLPC Bitfrost sandbox does, that's what Mac OS X's App Store sandbox does, and that's what the JavaScript file API does.

I imagine the demand for that sort of feature is fairly low.

Demand will be low for anything the general public doesn't know about. The demand for smartphones themselves was low before the first-generation iPhone was introduced.

And you also want it to cost under a grand, right?

[wiredog]

Good luck with that.

Oh, to have my mod points one more day

[Overzeetop]

Well played, sir. Well played.

Do people really use the front facing cam for chat

[Overzeetop]

I've only ever seen my daughter use the front cam, and that was the first day we got an iPad when the photo booth seemed like so much fun. She facetimes on her touch with a friend who moved to another state, but I suspect that's mainly because it's a touch and doesn't have an embedded audio-only client.

Seriously - aside from the first week or two of "ooh - look what I can do," is video chat a really useful function? OTOH, I use the camera on the back of my tablet to take pictures (i.e. photocopy) stuff in meetings all the time. Maybe it's a business vs personal thing.

So that's why...

[TemporalBeing]

...Ballmer had to show of a partially complete Win8-based tablet on Monday. To try to show they were ahead of Google. Never mind that Google's tablet is far more complete and closer to shipping.

Data space is not big enough

[tepples]

secure data should be stored in the app's "data" space.

Except this data space is only a few megabytes in size on the devices that I've used because the device is partitioned such that most of the device is formatted as if it were an SD card. Sure, encrypting the data on the SD card and storing the keys in the app's "data" space allows storing data that another application cannot inspect. But how should an application store more than a few megabytes of data that another application cannot accidentally overwrite?

SD cards are FAT formatted and don't offer the facilities to protect the data.

They offer subdirectories. An application could be restricted to only its own folder and those folders chosen by the user through the system's file chooser service; that's how the OLPC Bitfrost and Mac OS X sandboxes handle it.