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Microsoft To PC and Tablet Makers: You're Not Our Future
snydeq writes "Microsoft's plan to build its own Windows 8 tablets puts longtime allies in peril — and it may be the right thing to do. 'In announcing the Surface tablets, due to be released this fall, Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer cited Apple's advantage (without mentioning Apple) of integrated software and hardware. "Things work better when hardware and software are considered together," he said. "We control it all, we design it all, and we manufacture it all ourselves." ... Like Apple, Microsoft will hire a few PC makers to do the actual production work. But the need for 20 brands of me-too laptops, tablets, and convertibles is low. Manufacturing sophisticated electronics is a skill requiring manufacturing innovation. But all those branded-but-otherwise-undifferentiated PCs, laptops, tablets, and smartphones just aren't needed in the vision Ballmer sketched out yesterday.'"
This maybe the smartest move microsoft made in the last 15 years
That's good news for the customers, because in order to penetrate the market Microsoft will throw shitloads of money at the development of their new hardware toys and essentially give them away underpriced and possibly at a loss.
All we need to find out is a way to hack them and install Linux on them, and there it is, your super-cheap Linux tablet. :-)
So now all the PC manufacturers need a non-MS alternative... this could be the year... sounds good for EFI being able to boot linux after all!
blog.sam.liddicott.com
All of the recent commentary about MS rupturing their alliance with OEMs is overblown. Microsoft is stuck with OEMs because they don't have the resources to supply an entire computer market with their own hardware. OEMs are stuck with Microsoft because Apple won't license OS X and most consumers won't want linux for the foreseeable future.
MS will make a flagship tablet, which will showcase Windows 8 in the way that they want to show it (without manufacturer bloatware etc). The OEMs will rush in and undercut MS with a range of comparable but slightly cheaper options, and life will go on.
And yet again, Microsoft ape Apple.
The market is already saturated with what people want. Style and pose value from Apple and usefulness and financial value from the Android market. They think that they have a brand to bring to the table but they do not have that. Look at how they do in the Smart Phone world...
I love stacking my barbecues in the shed at the end of summer - you can't beat a bit of grill on grill action.
Nokia has been assimilated.
Nae king! Nae laird! Nae yurrupiean pressedent! We willna be fooled again!
To be honest, I have 4 tablets in my house. One I use constantly for travel and three others for the wife/kids. Do they use them? sometimes but for me I have a Laptop, a Desktop and other systems to use. The tablet form factor is nice and it does provide a needed distraction from the obnoxious guy sitting behind me in 10A on the flights. I've also seen people now diligently taking their tablets everywhere, as if they're so much jewelry. Today I went to lunch and next to where I was, there was a young couple. Both with tablets, both watching stuff, exchanging e-mail and not really talking to each other. So why go to lunch together if you're not going to be part of the actual experience. Yes, it could be laptops, eepcs etc. but it's simply amazing the tools we now have that actually discourage face to face communications. Oh yeah, I can Skype too but that's beside the point.
Microsoft for jumping into this with a "Me Too" approach seems to be too little, too late. Much like their phones. Maybe they'll sell a few but right now I think the market is saturated by Apple and all of the Android based models out there. This move will also alienate them from a lot of their tried-and-true supporters, the Toshibas, the HPs and the ASUSs for example.
Well, let's wait and see in two years to see if it makes sense or if Ballmer will do his Monkey Boy Dance again!
Harrison's Postulate - "For every action there is an equal and opposite criticism"
Hello,
I do not see this so much as an ultimatum by Microsoft to its partners as a warning.
Microsoft has invested a great deal of R&D into making Windows fast and reliable, only to find those efforts wasted by computer manufacturers who load up trial or otherwise limited versions of third-party programs which slow down the boot process and system performance overall, use up memory and disk space and introduce incompatibilities with other operating system components and third-party software, all in the pursuit of pumping up profits by turning the computer that you buy from them into a billboard, with those programs being the advertisements. Software companies have to pay for pre-loading the trial version onto a computer, and also have to pay a commission when a license is sold from that preloaded version.
The fact that whole taxonomies of software have been created (bloatware, crapware, shovelware to name a few), and that an ecosystem of programs like CCleaner (formerly Crap Cleaner) and PC Decrapifier (formerly Dell Decrapifier) have sprung up to solve the problem indicates how badly Microsoft's partners have abused their position.
In the case of the whole OEM software preload business, I think Microsoft has largely been the victim. They put strict branding requirements into Windows 95 for the desktop because they wanted end users to have the best experience possible. Manufacturers saw it as a way to make more money ("sell advertising space") and that's what pretty much started the initial antitrust investigation into Microsoft by the US DoJ. Yes, Microsoft has done plenty of horrible things, but they've also paid the price for those past misdeeds, not just in terms of fines, but in the distraction of having to deal with lawyers instead of being able to focus on delivering products and competing with companies like Apple.
Microsoft's partners cannot have ignored what Microsoft is doing with Windows Phone, Windows RT, the Microsoft Store, the Signature PC program and so forth. The writing has pretty much been on the wall for a while; this is just the latest paragraph: We have worked very hard to provide you with the tools to provide customers with a great Windows experience. If you do not choose to execute on that, we will.
As usual and for the record, all of this is my own opinion and commentary derived by observation and other public sources and neither reflects the opinions of Microsoft or my employer (who actually competes with them), although they'd both be fools to disagree with me. :)
Regards,
Aryeh Goretsky
Dexter is a good dog.
Or it could have the opposite effect...
If the windows tablet bombs, then that will drive OEMs away faster than ever.
If it succeeds, then it will be a competitor to the OEMs which may also discourage them, especially since MS will have an inherent advantage due to being able to get the software for free whereas other OEMs will have to negotiate a price, giving them thinner margins on otherwise comparable devices.
http://spamdecoy.net - free throwaway anonymous email - avoid spam!
What's the future for Nokia?
Look at both of these URLs and you tell me.
http://ompldr.org/vZWQzcw/charting.the.charts.png
http://www.businessweek.com/ap/2012-06-15/moodys-downgrades-nokia-to-junk-status
--
BMO
Samsung will go where the demand is. They couldn't care less about open source or closed source - they only care about selling their products and if Microsoft produce a system that people want, Samsung will build devices to run it. End of story.
If what you are saying was true, Windows would have died 15 years ago and the world would be running on Linux.
Being able to run the same apps on your phone, tablet and PC is an awesome feature
Not really. Microsoft's biggest fault is that they don't recognize that the phone, tablet and PC have different purposes, and different modes of usage. In some cases, there's some applications, such as e-mailing or browsing that are done on all devices, but even then there's no need to have exactly the same app. The apps just need to be compatible, and be capable of sharing the files, but apart from that, they should be optimized for the platform and typical use.
Being able to run the same apps on your phone, tablet and PC is an awesome feature.
Lets hope no one buys the WinRT version then.
These comments are my personal opinions and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of the other voices in my head.
7% of android devices are running ICS 7 months after it was released, compared to Apples 80%.
Can you substantiate your claim that 80% of Apple's devices are running ICS? I thought it would take a lot longer than 7 months for that to happen...
Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. - Voltaire
This cannot end well.
Google needs to start grabbing manufacturers and carriers by the balls like Apple did. Give the manufacturers what they need, but enforce some kind of rollout process. People are pissed, but they can't fight back against an AT&T for being completely feckless. Apple just said, "fuck you carriers, we'll handle the updates so its done right."
Very difficult for the great majority of handset manufacturers. They're following a strict waterfall model - phone hardware gets developed, released, marketed and retired. The software on the phone is developed in the early stages of that process and basically ignored for the rest of it because the development team has moved onto the next thing.
At any given point in time, they could easily have 5 or ten different handsets on the market.
The problem is, when you've got a whacking great business with thousands of staff worldwide, it's fantastically difficult to radically change how it works.
Nokia need to do this, as do RIM. Look how well they're getting on so far.
MS is selling tablets in order to sell Win-8. That's it, that's the only reason. They're hedging their bets that Win-8 won't catch on so they're going to sell devices that have to run it. When after a few years they discover the error of their ways and realize that Win-8 is a niche product and that tablets haven't taken over the world, they'll drop Metro and they'll drop tablets.
That's not exactly true. Since ICS has been released with the Samsung Galaxy Nexus, there have only been a few major releases of phones. And while Motorola Razr did not come with ICS, they are slated to have it by the end of this month. HTC One, Incredible 4G and the newest Samsung Galaxy III come with ICS (and those are the major releases from those manufacturers in the seven months since ICS was released, they have really stopped saturating the market with phone after phone). Really only the Razr and it's various iterations have lagged behind on the ICS release. And in the next several months the HTC Rezound, Thunderbolt, Rhyme, the Motorola Razr, Droid 4 and Bionic are all scheduled to receive updates, not next year. I agree it's taking them far too long, but in the case of the Galaxy Nexus, which is supposed to be a pure Android experience and updated by Google, the update from 4.02 to 4.04 took months longer because of Verizon. In fact Google actually leaked a working version of the 4.04 update months before it was released on Verizon and most rooted phones were using it.
Android, in the form used in most tablets and phones, is most certainly not free. The Android Open Source Project (AOSP) is free, and you can make a quite respectable OS from it, but many of the things that people think of as "Android" features are actually *Google* features, and Google charges licensing fees for them.
Want access to the Android Market (excuse me, Google Play)? That will cost. Want access to Google's map data for built-in navigation? That will cost. Want to use Google's mail and calendar and contacts and chat apps for Android? That will cost. Want Google's support in modifying the OS for your devices and market? That will cost (actually, it costs anyhow, it's just a question of whose developers you're paying).
The truly bottom-of-the-price-chart Android tablets and phones do use AOSP, on crap hardware with crap drivers. That saves on licensing the OS, buying quality parts, and integrating the OS well. Of course, you get what you pay for; a slow and buggy experience that falls well short of what could be achieved on a Nexus or Droid or Galaxy with comparable specs.
The other people using AOSP are those who are investing heavily in building their own OS, and use Android as a starting point. The Kindle Fire, Nook Color, and Nook Tablet are all running Android, but they don't really look and feel like Android devices because, in the Google Android sense, they aren't. They run Amazon Android or B&N Android, and while those companies have sent Google very little if any money in licensing costs, they have spent lots of money on internal development costs.
There's no place I could be, since I've found Serenity...
The "MCPC" thing isn't a cute meme, it's spam.
They're trying to Google to rank them higher by getting as many mentions of their product as possible on high profile websites like /.
You're not helping.
No sig today...
Slashdot links are rel="nofollow", which means Google doesn't count them. So no.
I, as most people in my situation, own a couple of iPads. Wife. Children. Me. All cool. The iPad is a fantastically useful consumption device with minor possibilities for content modification. It's not ideal or even convenient, but definitely possible. This means that when I head off to Rome this summer on vacation, I will bring my iPad on the plane, but I'll probably check my laptop. I will of course bring the laptop. I can do things on that (such as develop software) that simply isn't possible, or at least practical on the iPad.
When the Windows Surface Pro comes out, if it has the specs it looks like it's going to have, my laptop will be retired. I will no longer bring it anywhere, since the Surface Pro will be a fully functional substitute for my laptop. I look forward to not having to travel with my laptop. Oh, and my iPad will be retired at the same time, since the Surface will have 100% of the functionality of my iPad also.
Microsoft is a little slow to the party, but not too late. This offering, if it works as advertised, will simply kill the iPad in the enterprise. Is that important? Yes it is. Once most of us get a Surface at work, why would we need an iPad?
Remeber too, the Surface has at least an order of magnitude more developers than does the iPad.
Remember when Microsoft ruled the world because they left the dirty, competitive, low-profit-margin work of making actual hardware to other companies? Remember when "beleaguered Apple" was going broke because they still foolishly insisted on making computers instead of licensing their OS to cloners? Remember when mighty IBM fled from the PC business because they just couldn't make it pay?
I'm puzzled over how and why everything now tilts the other way. What changed in the world around us?
The smaller makers may have two choices, throw in the towel or embrace Linux. If Microsoft is throwing the hundreds of smaller makers under the bus then they have to focus another OS. They may unintentially create a third OS option for the average person.The software support has been slow in coming but more game engines like Unity are supporting it and all it would take is a truly user friendly version and maybe a portable version to support the indy tablet makers. Create a Linux app store that works like iTunes and provide a good retail option for movies and music and people could flock to it. Look at it this way, Apple can't hog the retina displays forever and what are the odds of Microsoft not shooting itself in the foot? Apple is closed source and Microsoft tends to be on the twitchy side when it comes to hardware and security. Linux could provide an open platform for development without all the jumping through hoops of Apple. I want something a little more like the early days where you could store any kind of files on portables. Also I want more storage which Apple has been loath to do. Imagine a 256 gig iPad that had a full desktop OS and allowed you to store and transport files and sold for $1,000 to $1,200. A bigger screen and 2560X1440 support would be ideal. The point is a desktop replacement that is completely portable and not in the way a notebook is but think, light and instant on. Something that you could walk out to the living room and stream a movie to the big screen or even stream a movie at a friends house to their TV. Bundle in a DVR so you can record your cable programs and have it completely portable. There's no technical reason you couldn't bundle in a TV tuner and an HDMI and tap into TV that way. Don't compete with the iPad make it something else that is more of a media and desktop Swiss Army Knife. Make a tablet that has everyone saying why doesn't iPad do all this and with the security and stability of Linux. Come up with an accessory Blu-ray player that was the size of a Walkman and I could get rid of more than half my electronics and replace them with something I could hold in one hand.
Dear hardware manufacturers: You are now utterly dependent on your biggest competitor to supply you with the software you need to run your product. If MS thinks you have a better product at a better price than theirs? Oops, sorry, our Windows OEM licensing system is having technical difficulties. Oh, wait, it's working again, but we had to double the price. You can only build what Microsoft allows you to build.
Unless you want to become a de facto division of Microsoft, you have only two choices: write your own operating system, or use one that's free.
Dell Launches Laptops Pre-Loaded with Ubuntu Linux in 850 Stores Across India: http://www.h-online.com/open/news/item/Dell-to-bring-Ubuntu-laptops-to-850-retail-stores-in-India-1620657.html This was announced on the SAME day that Microsoft announced the Surface RT and Surface Pro. It seems that the OEM industry is secretly betting that Linux Desktop will overtake Windows in the huge Asian market. This is interesting considering that Valve is releasing Steam for Linux and that EA and other game companies are interested as well. They are predicting that Linux will be a big win and replacement for Windows in the long term. earlier... Dell Launches Laptops Pre-Loaded with Ubuntu Linux in China: http://www.h-online.com/open/news/item/Canonical-Dell-bring-Ubuntu-laptops-to-220-Chinese-retail-stores-1368347.html The OEM's are the BIGGEST CLOWNS for not jumping on Linux earlier to counter the Microsoft threat to their eco-system.
...right down to the bottom of the sea.
Let's count the problems with this model. Suppose I'm a maker of tablets or laptops or PCs. So far I've put Windows on them to market them because frankly, I have little choice -- it's that or Linux and besides, in order to remain price competitive I have to get the price breaks that come from Microsoft for using Windows exclusively as a pre-installed OS. However, I have taken comfort in the fact that all of the other manufacturers are in the same boat -- we all have the same product, within hardware choices and tweaks, we all run the same OS preinstalled for pretty much the same price, that OS breaks on our hardware about the same fraction of time and we get enough help fixing it that we can usually release a semi-stable product and not piss off our consumer base.
But now Microsoft is going to play! It will design its own hardware, and will apply its own team of umpty-gazillion semi-unemployed programmers to ensure that its OS works perfectly on that hardware, both optimized and with absolutely functional device drivers. OTOH, Microsoft will have absolutely no incentive to help out third party hardware manufacturers like me. Indeed, they will have a disincentive! If my hardware has a constant list of creeping minor problems, then Microsoft's huge team of sales reps will be able to convince many buyers that my hardware just isn't reliable, where theirs is!
It's not like we haven't seen this before, after all. It is precisely how Microsoft became the monopoly that they are today -- Microsoft branded software always worked when a new version of its OS was released, where non-Microsoft software was usually subtly broken for six months afterwards. This problem was so prevalent and reproducible that the term "FUD" was coined to describe the predictable response of the Microsoft reps in that six month window, while they gradually took over the world from the likes of Lotus, Corel, Borland, all of whom owned a serious piece of the PC software business before Microsoft decided it wanted it all, not just the OS and maybe a reference compiler or two.
So now Microsoft has decided to go one step further and become Apple, even though they at one point took Apple to within coup-de-grace range of bankruptcy and refrained from wiping it out entirely only because they were already in trouble with anti-trust suits and needed a viable competitor to convince the courts that they didn't, actually, need to be broken up. Apple, of course, has succeeded largely recently because they have a certain amount of genuine innovation (on top of a fair bit of righteous anti-innovation, adopting Unix as their basic OS and "inheriting" an enormous base of free/open source software that nevertheless becomes part of their overall offering). So Microsoft is thus committed to out-Jobbing the now deceased Steve Jobs, in spite of the fact that as a corporation it has stolen -- well, "hijacked" is a better term -- almost all of its best ideas using the dual weapon of cloning by the world's largest closed shop of programmers who control both software and OS, and FUD. Worked great with corporations and corporate tools, but how will it play with consumers? How will it play with the vast ocean of hardware makers?
The latter is fairly predictable. The minute Microsoft becomes Apple, and adopts hardware that it either makes itself or outsources from just one specific manufacturer, the incentives that have long given them dominance on the desktop disappear. True, they are already getting hammered by e.g. Android and can read the writing on this particular wall, but it may well be that their only alternative at this point is one form or another of elegant suicide. When all of the hardware manufacturers realize that they are competing with Microsoft as well as Apple, with very likely no room left in between, what alternatives do they have for survival? Anti-trust suits, sure. And support for any viable alte
Even when the experts all agree, they may well be mistaken. --- Bertrand Russell.
Actually, if you are a certain type of spammer maybe you would...
Most of the datacenter equipment has less in common with the current desktop components than most would like. For example, generally more expensive registered DIMMs with ECC are used. Xeon EN or higher, meaning pretty expensive processors. Where GPUs are employed, they are frequently models without any video ports at all. Motherboards are frequently proprietary form factor custom designed for the chassis they go into. About the only solace is that pretty typical SATA drives have a pretty strong presence alongside higher end 15k SAS drives. However, the driver of use of SATA for storage is largely the commodity pricing from commonality with desktops, without desktop volume, SATA prices will rise and/or be ignored for SAS interfaces.
Basically, if the market ditches socketed consumer components, the server market is not going to be a force to keep prices where they are now.
XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
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