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Bev Harris of Black Box Voting Releases Accenture's Voting Software

Gottesser writes with this excerpt from Bev Harris's Black Box Voting: "I have found and posted the actual voter list software used widely throughout the USA (TN, WI, PA, CO, KS...) for Accenture voter registration and voter histories. I located the files on a magnetic backup tape of the hard drive of a county elections IT employee, part of a 120-gig set of discovery files. The Accenture voter registration / voter history software is highly problematic, and has been reported switching voter parties in Colorado, and losing voter histories in Tennessee. Although it is now widely known that Accenture voter list software gets it wrong, just WHY the program misreports voter information so often has never been explained. I am hoping that by releasing this software to the public, it may shed light on what's really going on with our voter registration systems. I also posted a Tennessee file with work orders and release notes which shows the Accenture software has a history of tripling votes in certain ('random') voter histories, going back to 2004. Except it is not random: Other files I discovered prove it is with primarily suburban Republican precincts that votes are somehow being recorded twice and sometimes three times for certain voters in the voter history report, and this didn't just happen in 2004; it also happened in the 2008 presidential primary and in May and August 2010, and according to election commission notes in Shelby County, also in the 2012 presidential primary. Computer buffs, have at it. Much source code exists within the structure because it is built on MS Access. I do not read source code, though I can see some structural problems with the software (for example, it allows political party ID to be set differently from one precinct to another)."

245 comments

  1. Good work by Hatta · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Now how long until Harris is sued?

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    Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    1. Re:Good work by durrr · · Score: 4, Interesting

      You means commits suicide by shooting himself once in the heart and twice in the head?

    2. Re:Good work by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

      They gave her a sex change too? Whoever THEM are, THEM are good!

    3. Re:Good work by msauve · · Score: 1

      ITYM "she." HTH!

      --
      "National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
    4. Re:Good work by GodfatherofSoul · · Score: 1

      Herself

      --
      I swear to God...I swear to God! That is NOT how you treat your human!
    5. Re:Good work by Maximum+Prophet · · Score: 1

      You joke, but Memphis is in Shelby county, and something similar happened to the new sheriff in town. He cleaned up some crime, then when he was at a gas station, he commited suicide with a shotgun. (This was the late '80s, early 90's)

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    6. Re:Good work by crazyjj · · Score: 1

      Well, at least the government can't frame her on a rape charge.

      --
      What political party do you join when you don't like Bible-thumpers *or* hippies?
    7. Re:Good work by CAIMLAS · · Score: 1

      No, that's the other party affiliation that kills people. This party affiliation's enemies usually end up having their hypocricies exposed, and failing those, have something embarassing manufactured to be expossesd...

      --
      ~/ssh slashdot.org ssh: connect to host slashdot.org port 22: too many beers
    8. Re:Good work by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, at least the government can't frame her on a rape charge.

      Unless they find a 14 year old boy.

    9. Re:Good work by MickyTheIdiot · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I am left without mod points now. Dang. This is a -1 Troll post if ever there was one.

      The problem with "e"voting is you are using what has to be a complex technical system for something done for hundreds or thousands of years in a simple way, either by hand counting or counting slips of paper. If you believe in the KISS principle this is one case where the solution might be not to play as the lives of an entire country are to blame.

      Even if you screw up micro controller code and overexposing someone to radiation in the famous incident it's only *one* person, not a country.

    10. Re:Good work by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The issue is not the specific method of counting, but the issue of verification. There are many systems that would measurably reduce the opportunities for vote and elections fraud. If your belief is that technology can only make things worse, then you are, by definition, a Luddite. BTW, hand counting is rife with opportunity for fraud (see 'Landslide Lyndon').

    11. Re:Good work by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    12. Re:Good work by amorsen · · Score: 4, Interesting

      If your belief is that technology can only make things worse, then you are, by definition, a Luddite.

      This is simply untrue. The fact that technology cannot solve one particular problem does not make you a Luddite.

      The integrity of voting is built on it being transparent and understood by all. Everything which stands between the average voter and a thorough understanding of the voting process must be eliminated.

      --
      Finally! A year of moderation! Ready for 2019?
    13. Re:Good work by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You have changed the topic, despite the fact that you quoted me.

      If your belief is that technology can only make things worse, then you are, by definition, a Luddite.

      The fact that technology cannot solve one particular problem does not make you a Luddite.

      As I stated, being a Luddite is about belief. Take a look at Scantegrity. Does it solve every problem? No. Does it measurably improve results? Yes. Is it expensive or difficult to understand? No. Clearly this is something on the path to what will some day be a perfect system, but I'm sure if you present the concept to the folks at BBV, they will just poop all over it, just like they do everyone who attempts to find solutions to the issues with voting that BBV is so happy to publicize. And if you spend the time going through the BBV website, you will not find any suggestions, only problems.

    14. Re:Good work by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You actually think they count paper votes by hand? They're fed through an optical scanner for tabulation by software.

    15. Re:Good work by pimpsoftcom · · Score: 1

      Accenture is half owned by microsoft isn't it? Wouldn't that involve them?

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      - d
    16. Re:Good work by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Discovering BBV logic:

      "In tested system we have discovered problems x, y, and z."

      "I have a solution for problem x."

      "Your solution does not solve y and z."

      "Yes, I know, but it does solve x and is easy to implement."

      "Your solution is imperfect, thus unacceptable."

      "Yes, it's imperfect, but isn't a system with only problems y and z better than a system with problems x, y, and z?

      "Your solution is imperfect, thus unacceptable."

      ad infinitum

    17. Re:Good work by amorsen · · Score: 0

      "Your solution is imperfect, thus unacceptable."

      But this is fundamentally true! We have an almost-perfect system already, hand counted paper votes. The only real problem with that system is accessibility. Any solution which sacrifices anything which the hand counted paper system provides for a slight benefit to the 1% disabled is unacceptable.

      Yes, it sucks that some disabled people need to bring someone with them to vote for them. If we can design systems which only they use, by all means, go ahead. The likelihood of attack on a system which only handles 1% of votes is low and the impact is low as well. Yes, 1% might swing a close election, but if the election is that close anyway, the wrong guy cannot be that bad.

      --
      Finally! A year of moderation! Ready for 2019?
  2. Our software!!!!1one by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    DMCA takedown request in 3...2...1...

    It's for society's good, of course!

    1. Re:Our software!!!!1one by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      DMCA takedown request in 3...2...1...

      No matter. The torrent is out there, the file is ESM_2.0_8-23-04.zip.

    2. Re:Our software!!!!1one by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thanks.

  3. "because it is built on MS Access." by cayenne8 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    ...because it is built on MS Access.

    Well, there's your problem right there....why didn't they use a (real) database?

    --
    Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    1. Re:"because it is built on MS Access." by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Because they are Accenture, and by definition, incompetent.

    2. Re:"because it is built on MS Access." by sanosuke001 · · Score: 2

      Next thing you know they'll say the code was written in javascript or visual basic...

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      -SaNo
    3. Re:"because it is built on MS Access." by gman003 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Because they couldn't figure out how to get MSSQL working, they couldn't afford Oracle, the very thought of "open source" scared the crap out of them (so no MySQL/PostgreSQL), and all the other proprietary databases are (apparently) even worse than Access.

    4. Re:"because it is built on MS Access." by davidbrit2 · · Score: 1

      An Access front-end with SQL Server acting as the back-end can work just fine for relatively simple applications, but the developer still has to know what he's doing. For a simple data entry and maintenance application, I can throw something together in just an hour or two. It's less effort to do simple stuff with Access, and less effort to do complicated stuff with, say, C#. So, right tool for the right job and all that.

      But storing data in the Access database, and having it accessed by multiple users is always a recipe for disaster.

    5. Re:"because it is built on MS Access." by dkleinsc · · Score: 1

      Because it would interfere with their antivirus software, of course.

      --
      I am officially gone from /. Long live http://www.soylentnews.com/
    6. Re:"because it is built on MS Access." by SlippyToad · · Score: 1

      For a simple data entry and maintenance application, I can throw something together in just an hour or two

      Looks like that's all the effort they put into this shite software, too.

      --
      One day I feel I'm ahead of the wheel / the next it's rolling over me / I can get back on / I can get back on
    7. Re:"because it is built on MS Access." by erik+umenhofer · · Score: 3, Insightful

      This sounds like the client had requirements. No consultant in the modern day would go in there and say this is the best solution. They must of been told they had Access already and this was all they could use.

    8. Re:"because it is built on MS Access." by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

      Accenture is commonly known as Accidenture.

    9. Re:"because it is built on MS Access." by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 1

      Next thing you know they'll say the code was written in javascript or visual basic...

      Not all of it was written in Visual Basic - just the GUI.

      --
      #DeleteChrome
    10. Re:"because it is built on MS Access." by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

      If this is the software I'm thinking it is, the first iteration of it was developed by a (very) small business in Arkansas in the early 1990's, and Accenture's involvement is at the end of a chain of acquisitions over the years. That company developed it for very small customers (individual counties in Arkansas). Access was chosen mostly because the owner of the company was hacking out the software himself and his choice of tools was always whatever Microsoft was promoting the hardest at the time. Regardless of the motivation, that probably was not too terrible a choice given the requirements, the nature of the data being managed, and the technology of the day. At the time Shelby County, TN became a customer (mid-90's) the data store would have been SQL Server, with Access being used for client-side data entry and reporting.

      So now you know. If it's the software I'm thinking it is. I can't imagine why it has been kept in that form for so long, though.

    11. Re:"because it is built on MS Access." by biodata · · Score: 1

      What was the business rules layer coded in?

      --
      Korma: Good
    12. Re:"because it is built on MS Access." by Mad+Bad+Rabbit · · Score: 2

      Javascript, of course

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      >;k
    13. Re:"because it is built on MS Access." by CastrTroy · · Score: 1

      Can the Visual Basic GUI be used to track IP Addresses?

      --

      Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
    14. Re:"because it is built on MS Access." by Bigby · · Score: 2

      Actually, they are commonly known as Arthur Andersen.

    15. Re:"because it is built on MS Access." by pkinetics · · Score: 1

      Same reason code always stays on the same platform:

      If it aint broke, don't fix it.

      Ambiguous, or poorly written code behaviors, not making sense to anyone else, poorly documented requirements, requires the genus who built it. And that person seldom wants to revisit / be reminded of WTF code. Heck, they seldom remember their code before.

    16. Re:"because it is built on MS Access." by Jawnn · · Score: 1

      Access should not have been used here, at all. This is an application that should have a complex set of "business rules" designed and implemented in such a way that the "mistakes" listed would not have been possible. That immediately eliminates Microsoft Access as a suitable platform. Access is (was, anyway) a fine tool for certain well-defined tasks. Whoever decided/approved it's use in this role is either an idiot or an evil genius. I put that race at even money, but that's rather another argument.

    17. Re:"because it is built on MS Access." by crazyjj · · Score: 1

      No, it wasn't in *visual* basic.

      --
      What political party do you join when you don't like Bible-thumpers *or* hippies?
    18. Re:"because it is built on MS Access." by gumpish · · Score: 1

      They must of been told

      What does it mean for a person to "of been" told something?

    19. Re:"because it is built on MS Access." by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If it aint broke, don't fix it.

      An aphorism best applied to things that aren't broken.

    20. Re:"because it is built on MS Access." by Talderas · · Score: 1

      Luckily it it isn't Aperture.

      --
      "Lack of speed can be overcome. In the worst case by patience." --Znork
    21. Re:"because it is built on MS Access." by bandy · · Score: 1

      For a simple data entry and maintenance application, I can throw something together in just an hour or two.

      So Access is like HyperCard.

      --
      "You might as well get your son a ticket to hell as give him a five string banjo." -unknown minister
    22. Re:"because it is built on MS Access." by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 1

      Glad to see one person got it!

      --
      #DeleteChrome
    23. Re:"because it is built on MS Access." by wilson_c · · Score: 1

      Andersen Consulting (which later became Accenture) and Arthur Andersen (a now-defunct major accounting firm) were effectively separate companies for a very long time prior to the renaming and the dissolution of Arthur Andersen.

    24. Re:"because it is built on MS Access." by erik+umenhofer · · Score: 1

      When you are being paid for work by a client, they dictate what the work is at the end of the day. They are paying you. You can give suggestions etc, but if they want Access or only know Access, you are going to use Access. You are being "told" this is the only option and you use it. This has happened on countless clients.

    25. Re:"because it is built on MS Access." by bandy · · Score: 1

      They must of been told

      What does it mean for a person to "of been" told something?

      Are you being deliberately obtuse or are you simply unaware of the sad fact of the decline of the English language? (Also, consider that "eric umenhofer" sounds like a name for a non-native speaker - the 'net is international, after all, just like the Village.) What he probably meant was:

      They must've been told that they [the client] had Access already and that it was all they could use.

      --
      "You might as well get your son a ticket to hell as give him a five string banjo." -unknown minister
    26. Re:"because it is built on MS Access." by erik+umenhofer · · Score: 1

      Sadly English is my first and only language. Never had anyone question my grammar like that though, but I guess I've BEEN using that word incorrectly for many years?

    27. Re:"because it is built on MS Access." by UnknownSoldier · · Score: 1

      But it's for SCIENCE! ;-)

      Sorry, Valve / Portal article reference / joke.

    28. Re:"because it is built on MS Access." by davidbrit2 · · Score: 1

      From what I've seen of this application, yeah, it's definitely not "simple". It should have been built with a secure, well-written database back-end handling the security and business rules, with a mostly dumb front-end.

    29. Re:"because it is built on MS Access." by sconeu · · Score: 1

      <PEDANTIC>
      It's somewhat proper in spoken English, because it's actually "must've". which is a contraction for "must have". I say "somewhat" because I'm not sure if that is a valid contraction.

      In any case, the spoken "must've" was misinterpreted into writing as "must of" instead of "must have"
      </PEDANTIC>

      --
      General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
    30. Re:"because it is built on MS Access." by bandy · · Score: 1
      --
      "You might as well get your son a ticket to hell as give him a five string banjo." -unknown minister
    31. Re:"because it is built on MS Access." by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why would you need a database for a trivial id look up? Sounds like you're the prick here.

    32. Re:"because it is built on MS Access." by gagol · · Score: 1

      I would vote for "idiot" but the system register it as "Evil Genius"...

      --
      Tomorrow is another day...
    33. Re:"because it is built on MS Access." by AaronLS · · Score: 1

      You are giving them a lot of credit, to assume the had such a layer.

    34. Re:"because it is built on MS Access." by St.Creed · · Score: 1

      8 weeks ago, someone managed to sell an Apex app to the company I'm working for. For 50K euro's. It was an automated conversion from an XSD scheme into a bunch of Apex screens. For the 120 fields I could have done that myself in about 4 hours. Good sales department - I think that's where the money went :)

      --
      Therefore, by the (faulty) logic you're using, you're just a cow with a keyboard - osu-neko (2604)
    35. Re:"because it is built on MS Access." by reve_etrange · · Score: 1

      Woosh. He was making fun of your grammar; technically it's "must have been."

      --
      .: Semper Absurda :.
    36. Re:"because it is built on MS Access." by tqk · · Score: 1

      They must of been told

      What does it mean for a person to "of been" told something?

      That's what you get when someone hears a contraction ("must've"), then tries to use it in written form.

      --
      "Tongue tied and twisted, just an Earth bound misfit ..." -- Pink Floyd.
    37. Re:"because it is built on MS Access." by Medievalist · · Score: 1

      Human readable flat files would be the optimum storage mechanism for this task. They should be designed to be both printable and readable for a thousand years into the future.

    38. Re:"because it is built on MS Access." by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He who does not understand words is incapable of understanding men - The Analects of Confucius, 20.3 (Leys trans.)

    39. Re:"because it is built on MS Access." by Mabhatter · · Score: 1

      Lampblack ink on dead goats!

      There are plenty of those left from 600+ years ago.

    40. Re:"because it is built on MS Access." by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      For maximum immunity to grammar nerds I opt for the more modern web contractions like "gonna" and "mustabeen". Forum tested and Internet approved.

    41. Re:"because it is built on MS Access." by cusco · · Score: 1

      Dunno about Accenture, other than that it came from Arthur Anderson Consulting before they were (rightfully) put out of business, but did you know that the company that became the voting division of Deibold was founded by two ex-cons? They met in the King County (Washington) jail where one was serving time for computer fraud and the other for distributing cocaine. The computer fraudster was kept on by Deibold and became the voting systems director IIRC.

      --
      "Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin
    42. Re:"because it is built on MS Access." by tqk · · Score: 1

      For maximum immunity to grammar nerds I opt for the more modern web contractions like "gonna" and "mustabeen".

      I am somewhat of a grammar nerd, and I approve of your theory. I have no qualms against evolving the language. English is a mongrel language, after all. We steal from all the others and mangle to taste.

      Still, there are right and wrong ways to do it. I reserve the right to complain about the latter. :-) My latest bugaboo: news presenters who start every sentence with, "Now, ...".

      Carry on.

      --
      "Tongue tied and twisted, just an Earth bound misfit ..." -- Pink Floyd.
    43. Re:"because it is built on MS Access." by gtvr · · Score: 1

      When electronic voting systems hand you lemons...

    44. Re:"because it is built on MS Access." by gtvr · · Score: 1

      Enhance!

    45. Re:"because it is built on MS Access." by gtvr · · Score: 1

      I voted for "Evil Genius" but the system registered as "Godlike business visionary"

  4. Like Microsoft Excel? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    ...because it is built on MS Access.

    Well, there's your problem right there....why didn't they use a (real) database?

    Like Microsoft Excel?

    1. Re:Like Microsoft Excel? by i+kan+reed · · Score: 3, Funny

      At my company we base all our data on powerpoint slides. That way managers are able to present the data to other managers with the ease of 2 hours of clicking "next slide". Truly you are behind the times.

    2. Re:Like Microsoft Excel? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

      You may joke but this was actually suggested in one company I worked at, to replace FoxPro with Excel, after all it is just a table.

      I kid you not.

    3. Re:Like Microsoft Excel? by msauve · · Score: 1

      More like Whatsit."

      --
      "National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
    4. Re:Like Microsoft Excel? by AliasMarlowe · · Score: 2, Funny

      ...because it is built on MS Access.

      Well, there's your problem right there....why didn't they use a (real) database?

      Like Microsoft Excel?

      Are you sure it was Microsoft Access the database?
      Maybe they used the original Microsoft Access, the serial communication program that failed to compete with Procomm and Qmodem and suchlike back in the late 1980s to early 1990s. It would explain a lot...

      Intriguingly, references to the original Microsoft Access have vanished from Wikipedia and from almost everywhere on the web.

      --
      Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. - Voltaire
    5. Re:Like Microsoft Excel? by msauve · · Score: 1

      Doh. Darn tags. Dumb, non-previewing user. Whatsit

      --
      "National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
    6. Re:Like Microsoft Excel? by gagol · · Score: 1

      A company I worked for have done something similar...

      The big boss wanted to have an overview of EVERYTHING on a single excel sheet... I suggested building a small web interface and use Postgres to back it up explaining all the various problems we will encounter, but no... Excel it was.

      It took about 2 weeks for an intern to gather all the initial data onto the sheet and various people were then able to add/correct information into it. Within a month there were so much information out of order mainly because people forgot to select all fields when sorting and then updated the infos. After the obvious data mismanagement bomb dropped, I had to find a way to print and stitch together the whole thing in order to have managers sort it out using highliners of various colors. In the end, the excel sheet remained. The time we wasted could have been used to implement a real system. Management mostly have no clue what so ever, only money to waste.

      --
      Tomorrow is another day...
    7. Re:Like Microsoft Excel? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      what do you mean, it's in the Access disambiguation page...
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Access#Computer_software

    8. Re:Like Microsoft Excel? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      You should have had all the data in an OLAP database and have Excel attach to that.
      Lots of money can be wasted under the guise of business analytics and dashboards.

    9. Re:Like Microsoft Excel? by St.Creed · · Score: 1

      Yep - Cognos TM1 exists for precisely this reason: to part fools with their money. And keep the IT department happy while doing so :)

      --
      Therefore, by the (faulty) logic you're using, you're just a cow with a keyboard - osu-neko (2604)
    10. Re:Like Microsoft Excel? by Shazback · · Score: 2

      Amen brother. I was hired by a large, international IT consulting company as an intern (non-IT graduate) for the same reason - despite being assured repeatedly during interviews that I would do something completely different.

      The Regional Director wanted to be able to see all the company's experience : which company, which department, what speciality, what system, what budget, what country, what type of mission, etc. After three attempts in Excel (which took over 5 weeks in total), I tried to explain that the quantity and diversity of information he wanted was impossible to express in a concise manner using Excel or another spreadsheet. Furthermore, I explained that just maintaining this database would take hundreds of man-hours a year, if not a whole different order of magnitude once he decided to integrate other information or expand it to other countries/regions.

      He steadfastly refused even using something like Access. I ended up making a further 4 or 5 Excel sheets over the next month, but then I pretty much gave up on the project. I'd change the order of some columns, do some cosmetic changes and was really just showing him repeats of those 5 Excel sheets for the remainder of my internship. Thankfully, I had other things to do after the first two months, so I wasn't bored stiff, but it baffled me (and continues to do so) that someone who reports directly to the CEO of a major IT company can have no understanding of why it's impossible to represent a large number of dimensions of information in what is essentially a two-information-dimension manner (spreadsheet). I'm still sure that something done with relatively basic database software would have been perfect for what he wanted, but my latest sources tell me that the project has been "shelved" indefinitely after the intern that followed me didn't manage to solve this problem either.

    11. Re:Like Microsoft Excel? by ATMAvatar · · Score: 1

      The failure wasn't so much that he didn't understand the technical limitations - that's not his job. The failure was that he was micromanaging: dictating from on high how to implement a system down to a platform/technology level. Unfortunately, with so many high-profile and successful (in spite of themselves) CEOs in recent history who micromanage(d), we can expect to see even more of this idiocy in the future.

      --
      "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
    12. Re:Like Microsoft Excel? by MikeBabcock · · Score: 2

      Precisely.

      Repeat after me ... "sir, you hired me because I know more about computers than you do. Please let me make these decisions and help you make more money by doing it the best I can. If I'm wrong and it doesn't work out for you, deal with me at that point. Until then, please let me do the job you hired me to do."

      --
      - Michael T. Babcock (Yes, I blog)
    13. Re:Like Microsoft Excel? by Rysc · · Score: 2

      Oh yes, plus one million insightfuls to you, sir.

      I quit a job over this kind of thing. What it comes down to is that they either hired you for your expertise and respect it or they don't, and if they don't someone else will. No matter where I go I'm constantly fighting the what/how battle: You tell me what, I decide how. Mostly there is no problem with this if I begin with a non-confrontational explanation of why it has to be that way.

      --
      I want my Cowboyneal
    14. Re:Like Microsoft Excel? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You may joke but this was actually suggested in one company I worked at, to replace FoxPro with Excel, after all it is just a table.

      I kid you not.

      That's much like my company replacing FTP jails with Java based socket connections sending archival data over UDP packets. Kid you not.... *facepalm!

  5. Accenture, formerly known as Anderson Consulting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Don't forget Enron...

  6. This will be really interesting by Omnifarious · · Score: 5, Insightful

    There have been a whole lot of election shenanigans in this country and in Canada. And while I don't doubt both parties have done this sort of thing, and do this sort of thing, it seems to be the Republicans who've been the biggest culprits these past 10 years or so.

    Personally, I really like the anonymous electronic voting systems based on David Chaum's digital cash work. They look like they might be independently verifiable by third parties and anonymous at the same time.

    1. Re:This will be really interesting by cpu6502 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      >>>it seems to be the Republicans who've been the biggest culprits these past 10 years or so.

      In my state (see post below) it was the Democrats that rammed-through these machines. The Repubs/Libertarians were opposed to the e-voting due to ease-of-vote hijacking. So..... why do you think the Republicans are the biggest culprits when they were the ones opposed to the idea? Sources please.

      --
      My AC stalker: " I personally agree with your posts most of the time, but that won't keep me from modding you troll"
    2. Re:This will be really interesting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So..... why do you think the Republicans are the biggest culprits when they were the ones opposed to the idea?

      Because they're not his TEAM.

    3. Re:This will be really interesting by Mister+Transistor · · Score: 5, Interesting

      How about the President of Diebold quoted as saying they were "committed to helping Ohio deliver its electoral votes to the president next year." (source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Premier_Election_Solutions).

      If that isn't a obvious Freudian slip indicating their conflict of interest with the Republican party, I don't know what the fuck is. Yes, the Dems liked the idea of e-voting but this was before the Repubs perverted the realization. The Republican party objected, then quickly found a way to get their unregulated business-connected fucktard "partners" to trample all over the process and game the system in their favor. Yeah, letting businesses run wild and do whatever they want is a REALLY GOOD thing for this country. NOT.

      --
      -- You are in a maze of little, twisty passages, all different... --
    4. Re:This will be really interesting by Omnifarious · · Score: 1

      Neither are the Democrats. I really dislike both parties. And I find Obama to be a very disappointing president, though not for the reasons most Republicans complain about. He has an absolutely abysmal track record on civil liberties. Secret drone extra-judicial assassinations are only the half of it.

    5. Re:This will be really interesting by Omnifarious · · Score: 3, Interesting

      It's because whenever I see an article about these problems cropping up, about 9 times out of 10 it's the Republicans who are favored. Now, it could be article bias, but I don't think so. There are many interesting links as well. Diebold's CEO promising to deliver votes to the Republicans is one. But there are others.

      Democrats make certain kinds of back room deals with certain businesses. The entertainment industry (for example) is a big one. But Republicans make certain kinds of back room deals with certain other kinds of businesses. The voting machine industry deals feels more Republican to me. Mostly local deals not directly involving the creation of new laws. Democrats tend towards larger scale things that are directly related to political issues.

    6. Re:This will be really interesting by Bigby · · Score: 1

      So you are one of the people that voted for him thinking there would be change? And will likely vote for him again because...

    7. Re:This will be really interesting by Mister+Transistor · · Score: 4, Informative

      You're welcome. What the fuck is REPUTABLE? Someone who you have personally dealt with? Someone everyone can trust? No such person exists universally, nice Straw Man.

      But anyway, here are a bunch of more reports of this with SOURCES, if you don't think the Wikipedia article is correct. As far as them being REPUTABLE, that's open to opinion. Any random asshole YOU quote from won't be REPUTABLE to me. So there.

      http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/0828-08.htm

      http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2004/03/diebolds-political-machine

      http://money.cnn.com/2004/08/30/technology/election_diebold/

      http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Diebold_Election_Systems

      Your ears must hurt from having your fingers "rammed" in them so hard. You're welcome.

      --
      -- You are in a maze of little, twisty passages, all different... --
    8. Re:This will be really interesting by crazyjj · · Score: 5, Insightful

      And will likely vote for him again because...

      ...the alternative is a fucking nightmare.

      --
      What political party do you join when you don't like Bible-thumpers *or* hippies?
    9. Re:This will be really interesting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's because whenever I see an article about these problems cropping up, about 9 times out of 10 it's the Republicans who are favored.

      [Citation needed]

      PA is one of the states mentioned in TFS. We haven't gone to a Republican presidential candidate since 1988. Generalizations make poor arguments, especially without even providing the source for them.

    10. Re:This will be really interesting by Mo+Bedda · · Score: 2

      I don't know what you find reputable, but here are a couple. The USA Today story cites the New York Times as the original source.

      As much as I recall, the quote itself was never disputed, just denial of any sinister intent. The fact that the guy gave $100k to the Bush campaign and sent out fund raising letters for them would seem in line with that.

    11. Re:This will be really interesting by Mister+Transistor · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Because the alternative is MUCH WORSE. Yes, let's get back to the system and methods used to utterly destroy the US and World Economies, and turned the US from possibly the most admired and greatest nation in the world to the almost universally-hated Pariah it is today.

      They have DESTROYED AMERICA as we knew it. Keep up the good work! The rest of the world isn't quite bankrupt yet.

      --
      -- You are in a maze of little, twisty passages, all different... --
    12. Re:This will be really interesting by Holmwood · · Score: 5, Informative

      I'm on the conservative/libertarian side of things most (but not all) days, but the quote is real, assuming you accept the NY Times as a source.

      http://www.nytimes.com/2003/11/09/business/machine-politics-in-the-digital-age.html?pagewanted=all&src=pm

      The context is important; O'Dell wrote this as a Bush fundraiser in a fundraising letter, not in his role as Diebold president. That said, reverse it, if he'd been a Kerry/Obama backer and done the same; Republicans would be rightly very suspicious.

      We've had issues with robocalls and funding irregularities in Canada, but not, as far as I am aware, any significant credible allegations of ballot or vote fraud.

      In the last couple of elections, where I live, we've used paper ballots (filled out with a pen) sometimes coupled with optical scan. (The disabled can have someone assist them.) This provides a surprisingly useful audit trail. (e.g. consider a box filled with ballot papers all marked for one candidate, all with a very unusual pen colour. Don't laugh, it's happened in places like Texas).

      Voters are enumerated, door-to-door by multi-party teams of volunteers. To vote you have to show photo id. Felons and prisoners are able to vote; we think it's unfair to deny politicians the vote. I strongly suspect the level of voter fraud and machine politics is substantially lower than the US; history generally seems to bear this out.

      The Canadian system is far from perfect, though I'm inclined to think, like the banking system up here, it's somewhat superior to the current US system.

    13. Re:This will be really interesting by riverat1 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      ...the alternative is a fucking nightmare.

      Amen.

    14. Re:This will be really interesting by ifwm · · Score: 1

      ...the alternative is a fucking nightmare.

      WHICH alternative?

      You realize there's more than one?

      And your excuse is why the country is in this mess, voting for a known bad actor instead of a third party.

      DERP I KNOW OBAMA MURDERDRONED MY MOM, BUT ROMNEY!!!

      So don't vote for Romney. Vote third party. Or stop pretending you want to make things better.

    15. Re:This will be really interesting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because the other guy panders to completely brainless social conservatives. It's past time we stopped allowing those fools power over civilized people.

    16. Re:This will be really interesting by tx_kanuck · · Score: 2

      To be fair, anyone that wants to be a politician should probably be banned from voting (among other things)

      --
      Now, if that makes sense to anyone, could you please explain it to me? I think I've confused myself.
    17. Re:This will be really interesting by bmo · · Score: 1

      >So don't vote for Romney. Vote third party. Or stop pretending you want to make things better.

      Voting for a third party is voting for the guy you hate the most.

      That's the reality. Until we get rid of this current voting system we have and replace it with another, that's what we've got. Other countries have voting systems that let multiple parties thrive, but our system is a winner-take-all two party system.

      --
      BMO

    18. Re:This will be really interesting by Will.Woodhull · · Score: 1

      A REPUTABLE source is one who is in good standing with the puppet masters of the Republican Party. Obviously.

      --
      Will
    19. Re:This will be really interesting by Gottesser · · Score: 1

      New York State? They have problems with their Democrats up there. Ohio is different. We gave the world a Boehner. Election Integrity work needs to be bipartisan but unfortunately there are those who insist that an election was rigged if ANY republican wins at all. Also, unfortunately, the shenanigans occurring with election administrators almost always favor Republicans. The Democrats classically use outside attacks like voting the grave yard, etc. and the system can protect itself from these kinds of attacks. Of course all forms of fraud are equally wrong but this is what we've been seeing in the field.

    20. Re:This will be really interesting by CAIMLAS · · Score: 0

      While the Republicans have been doing more electronic voter fraud, Democrats are still king of the undead voter demographic, lost ballot boxes, and voter intimidation.

      The fact that none of this bothers anyone is fairly indicative that it doesn't matter if the system is broken. Nobody cares enough to do anything about it, so the system has failed, allowing for the fraud to occur.

      --
      ~/ssh slashdot.org ssh: connect to host slashdot.org port 22: too many beers
    21. Re:This will be really interesting by Sigma+7 · · Score: 1

      http://www.nytimes.com/2003/12/02/opinion/hack-the-vote.html?_r=1

      Inviting Bush supporters to a fund-raiser, the host wrote, ''I am committed to helping Ohio deliver its electoral votes to the president next year.''

      Also, instead of just saying that it is unsourced, you should attempt to find the source - in this case, I got a match on CNN, Wired, USA Today, LA Times and so on.

      It also was sourced to begin with. First follow the "Voting Fiasco, Part 279.236" reference in the same paragraph, scroll to the "deliver the vote" link and click on it to arrive at http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/0828-08.htm

    22. Re:This will be really interesting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Actually they should be allowed to vote, otherwise they have no interest in the actual voting process.

      Here in the Netherlands we had electronic voting machine. Then a couple of people used a tempest like attack with a pda to see what the politician voted on and then showed it to them.

      We don't have electronics voting machines anymore in The Netherlands. There are more reasons for this, but I believe this has helped somewhat.

    23. Re:This will be really interesting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's because whenever I see an article about these problems cropping up, about 9 times out of 10 it's the Republicans who are favored.

      Selection bias, much?

      In this case you've misinterpreted the story to fit your preconceived notion; the author claims that votes are duplicated in voter history reports (as opposed to actual votes) produced by the voter registration system, not that multiple votes were cast by some Republican in an actual election.

      shows the Accenture software has a history of tripling votes in certain ('random') voter histories

      recorded twice and sometimes three times for certain voters in the voter history report

      In simple English for your benefit: the software is misreporting Republicans as multiple-voters.

      Keep drinking that cool-aid.

    24. Re:This will be really interesting by Machtyn · · Score: 1

      I guess it is just counter-balancing the dead voters, the illegal alien voters, and the union voters that vote early and often...

    25. Re:This will be really interesting by BlueStrat · · Score: 0

      Because the alternative is MUCH WORSE. Yes, let's get back to the system and methods used to utterly destroy the US and World Economies, and turned the US from possibly the most admired and greatest nation in the world to the almost universally-hated Pariah it is today.

      They have DESTROYED AMERICA as we knew it. Keep up the good work! The rest of the world isn't quite bankrupt yet.

      I agree that both choices suck. Both Romney and Obama are Progressives, though Romney is not anywhere near as hardcore a kool-ade-drinking Progressive as Obama.

      Progressives in BOTH parties are indeed destroying the US. This has been going on since Woodrow Wilson, who reinstated segregation in the Civil Service after years of integration

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial_segregation_in_the_United_States

      "In 1913, President Woodrow Wilson ordered the segregation of the federal Civil Service.[12] White and black people would sometimes be required to eat separately, go to separate schools, use separate public toilets, park benches, train, buses, and water fountains, etc. In some locales, in addition to segregated seating, it could be forbidden for stores or restaurants to serve different races under the same roof."

      It's Progressives, by definition, that wish to ignore/bypass/render irrelevant the US Constitution and eventually install a ruling intellectual elite. They don't believe people are capable of, nor should they be allowed to, rule themselves. It's right in the name; "Progressive", as in to "progress" past the Constitution and the limits it imposes on government power, and replace the rule of law deriving from the Constitution with the law of men, or in other words, rule by whatever those in power want to order at the time.

      Obama's bypassing of Congress is a prime current example, a prime past example was FDR's threat to pack the SCOTUS unless they caved and reversed their original rulings throwing out large parts of the New Deal as unconstitutional. The two times in US history that ethnic groups were rounded up and placed in internment camps, the orders came from Progressive US Presidents.

      Strat

      --
      Progressivism (aka US 'Liberalism'): Ideas so good they need a police/surveillance-state to enforce.
    26. Re:This will be really interesting by Machtyn · · Score: 0

      So voting for Obama, solidifying the move to economic socialism through higher taxes (See Greece, Italy, France, etc) is preferable to actually spending less, reducing government waste, duplication, government debt, and creating an economic environment that will create jobs with a Romney vote? Curious. I thought we want to improve our economic future and make things better for us and our kids. The opposite is complete government dependence and loss of freedom.

    27. Re:This will be really interesting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The Canadian system is far from perfect, though I'm inclined to think, like the banking system up here, it's somewhat superior to the current US system.

      Are you really absolutely sure Canadian banking is better than US led highway robbery?

      http://thearrowsoftruth.com/12-year-old-girl-explains-canadian-banking-scam/

    28. Re:This will be really interesting by reve_etrange · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I know right? That's why Sweden and Norway are about to default on all their debt.

      --
      .: Semper Absurda :.
    29. Re:This will be really interesting by amorsen · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Denmark too! In fact, Denmark is so close to being broke that its government bond interest rate has overflowed and gone NEGATIVE!

      --
      Finally! A year of moderation! Ready for 2019?
    30. Re:This will be really interesting by akeeneye · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Don't forget Germany. A shambles I tell you.

      Government creates freedoms, it doesn't take them away. I'm free to walk down the street without the fear of getting mugged in most places because We The People have pooled our resources via the governnment to make the streets safe. I have the freedom to be unafraid of acquiring a large number of infectious diseases that my parents and grandparents did not have the freedom to ignore, because We The People pooled our resources to fund medical research into these diseases. Like many in the US, I would like our government to invest our resources into creating more freedoms for us.

      Which is not to say that it doesn't have to mend its ways in other areas, such as eliminating the current policy of Never-Ending War.

      --
      The man who dies rich dies disgraced. -- Andrew Carnegie
    31. Re:This will be really interesting by yurtinus · · Score: 1

      Until people stop spreading this FUD we're stuck with this current winner-take-all two party voting system. Or did you think the republicrats would change it on their own accord?

      --
      +1 Disagree
    32. Re:This will be really interesting by cffrost · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Voting for a third party is voting for the guy you hate the most.

      Only if one is voting from a swing state; if your state is historically/reliably loyal to D or R (at the exclusion of the other), voting third-party is a smart and responsible thing to do.

      --
      Thank you, Edward Snowden.

      "Arguments from authority are worthless." —Carl Sagan
    33. Re:This will be really interesting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And then you make fun of democrats for believing in change.

      Sounds like your rather hoodwinked your self there buddy. All you need to do is look at Romney's record and you can tell hes absolutely no better then Obama.

    34. Re:This will be really interesting by Maow · · Score: 2

      I'm on the conservative/libertarian side of things most (but not all) days,

      Full disclosure: I'm the same way, but on the other side of the spectrum. So right off the top, you're my kind of conservative: not rigid & ideological: that is a bad thing to have coming from either side.

      We've had issues with robocalls and funding irregularities in Canada, but not, as far as I am aware, any significant credible allegations of ballot or vote fraud.

      That used to be the case, but it gives me no joy to show that you're probably wrong on this one:

      allegations that at least 2,700 voters made applications for late registration to vote in Eglinton—Lawrence and that many failed to provide addresses or gave false or non-residential addresses, all of which failed to meet Election Canada rules.

      And, in Scarborough:

      Ontario Superior Court Justice Thomas Lederer declared Conservative MP Ted Opitz's narrow defeat over Liberal Wrzesnewskykj "null and void" under the Canada Elections Act, on the basis of a number of voting irregularities.

      The Canadian system is far from perfect, though I'm inclined to think, like the banking system up here, it's somewhat superior to the current US system.

      Again I agree with you, but fear that the current regime is intent on changing the status quo. My pet theory is that the Bill C-30 ("Internet Spying Act") is not to "Protect children on the Internet" but to allow Pierre Poutine to scour the telecom records of opposition candidates. Otherwise it makes no sense to allow anyone chosen by the minister to have these powers instead of just police.

      And the old election fraud techniques by the CPC are being exposed, need something new. Besides, Mssr Poutine isn't above *planting* some "evidence", IMHO. And if nasty, false allegations are flung at opposition hopefuls, it would take years to clear the record. Like the "Robocall" election fraud: think that will be prosecuted before the next election is held? I personally highly doubt it.

      Meh, turned into a long rant, sorry...

    35. Re:This will be really interesting by bmo · · Score: 1

      It's not FUD. It's reality.

      People who voted for Nader got W instead.

      The GOP is going to make sure that RONPAUL is not going to run as a third party candidate, for the same reason. They will find his price and give him what he wants.

      Third party candidates are merely spoilers in a 2 party winner-take-all system. Until we get ranked balloting and such, that's the way it's going to be. Deal with it.

      --
      BMO

    36. Re:This will be really interesting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The voting machine industry deals feels more Republican to me

      Really? That's evidence??? Well.... Allow me...

      Obama feels like a marxist from Kenya to me! (see how stupid that looks???)

      The elections in most states are run by state employees and in states where the state employees are unionized those employees are completely in bed with the Democrats and even have direct personal financial interests in having the Democrats win (The Democrats are funded by the unions and then give the unions fat pension deals)

      Who has the bigger and better documented conflict? hmmmmmmm??????

    37. Re:This will be really interesting by Zaelath · · Score: 1

      What you want, and who you think can deliver it, are worlds apart.

      The thing that's mostly going to affect your kids is becoming 2nd class to China, but keep hold of that dream that business has your best interests as a nation at heart and that they won't ditch your sorry ass the moment they can make more money elsewhere.

      Unfettered capitalism is just as retarded as pure socialism.

    38. Re:This will be really interesting by unitron · · Score: 1

      Hey, if you don't trust Diebold you can always go with one of the other voting machine companies run by his friends and relatives.

      --

      I see even classic Slashdot is now pretty much unusable on dial up anymore.

    39. Re:This will be really interesting by unitron · · Score: 1

      "To be fair, anyone that wants to be a politician should probably be banned from voting (among other things)"

      Nonsense.

      I wouldn't want to let anyone who wants to be a politician hold office, though.

      --

      I see even classic Slashdot is now pretty much unusable on dial up anymore.

    40. Re:This will be really interesting by Omnifarious · · Score: 1

      We've had issues with robocalls and funding irregularities in Canada, but not, as far as I am aware, any significant credible allegations of ballot or vote fraud.

      Yeah, I felt a little bad about mentioning Canada because I know this is true.

      But robocalling people from the other party in an attempt to get them to stay home is really bad. I'm really surprised there aren't riots demanding that the elections be redone over that.

    41. Re:This will be really interesting by Omnifarious · · Score: 1

      The fact that none of this bothers anyone is fairly indicative that it doesn't matter if the system is broken. Nobody cares enough to do anything about it, so the system has failed, allowing for the fraud to occur.

      I agree with this. I think it's more a matter of people not really believing that voting actually does much. A sentiment I can understand. Mostly I just keep hoping to try to make the decline happen at a reasonable pace. :-(

    42. Re:This will be really interesting by coinreturn · · Score: 1

      So voting for Obama, solidifying the move to economic socialism through higher taxes (See Greece, Italy, France, etc) is preferable

      Or you could see Ireland (low taxes, super-high unemployment).

    43. Re:This will be really interesting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In the past two years your posts have become increasingly bizarre and have included outright lies.

      cpu6502, I think you have some kind of mental illness. Maybe it's a brain tumor, maybe it's some kind of degenerative disease. I don't know. But I do know as along-time Slashdot reader that your posts have drastically changed in their tone and content. These days you seem to be wanting to pick fights and say literally anything that will incite other people.

      Please get help. You used to be a very solid contributor to discussions and I don't know what has happened to you.

    44. Re:This will be really interesting by cpu6502 · · Score: 1

      Thanks. Your wikipedia quotation is UNSOURCED and therefore invalid. For all I know the wiki-editor enjoys writing fiction, and made-up the quote on the spot. Got something better?

      --
      My AC stalker: " I personally agree with your posts most of the time, but that won't keep me from modding you troll"
    45. Re:This will be really interesting by cpu6502 · · Score: 1

      I have better things to do with my time (and money and gasoline) then to drive to the booth and vote 3rd party for president. In the entire history of the Republic no third party has ever won the executive..... it has always been the top 2 parties.

      And although I am a Republican I have to agree that Romney probably will be worse than Obama. Romney said he wants to take us to war against Iran, which will escalate to a war with Russia, which will be hell. Obama at least wants to keep us at peace (he says).

      --
      My AC stalker: " I personally agree with your posts most of the time, but that won't keep me from modding you troll"
    46. Re:This will be really interesting by yurtinus · · Score: 1

      And what's so wrong with that? For all the hype of Obama's campaign I'm not seeing much different in his presidency from a foreign wars or civil liberties standpoint than we had in Bush II. If you don't like either candidate, why put your support behind one you dislike a wee bit less than the other? "Lesser of two evils" voting is still voting for an evil - does it fundamentally matter if it's a Republican or a Democrat in office?

      --
      +1 Disagree
    47. Re:This will be really interesting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And how do you think a 3rd party overtook one of the top 2 parties? Because people like myself voted for them in one election cycle, leading people like yourself to realize that "hey, this other party might just work out!" during the next election cycle.

      You're welcome by the way.

    48. Re:This will be really interesting by bmo · · Score: 1

      "why put your support behind one you dislike a wee bit less than the other?"

      Because your characterisation of the differences dismisses the scale.

      Because I do not wish to go back to the days of the PNAC running the country, and Romney is doing his best rounding up the old crowd.

      It's not a choice between "someone I dislike slightly less" and the other guy, it's the choice between "someone who has disappointed me, but is not really a bad guy" versus "oh my fucking god, what a fucking disaster!"

      --
      BMO

    49. Re:This will be really interesting by Mojo+Geek · · Score: 1

      If the problem occurs randomly and reports indicate a 90% Republican bias that means that overwhelming instances of Democrat over counting are accepted rather than reported.

    50. Re:This will be really interesting by toddestan · · Score: 1

      Just because we have a winner-take-all system means we have to be stuck with the Republicans and Democrats forever. If one of the minor parties gets enough votes to become a contender, they could very well push out one of the existing major parties (as a three party system is not stable). It's already happened once in US history. Possibly this new party may be interested in reforming the voting system. But to vote for the Republicans and Democrats is just a vote for more of the same, and by doing that you can guarantee you'll never see ranked balloting or anything else like it.

    51. Re:This will be really interesting by cpu6502 · · Score: 1

      >>>And how do you think a 3rd party overtook one of the top 2 parties?

      It didn't. One of the top 2 parties disappeared, and that left a vacuum to be filled. Therefore for the LP to win, either the GOP or DNC would have to die..... and I don't see that happening between now and election day.

      --
      My AC stalker: " I personally agree with your posts most of the time, but that won't keep me from modding you troll"
    52. Re:This will be really interesting by bmo · · Score: 1

      >It's already happened once in US history

      Which means it's only happened once in US history, when the Whigs got pushed out.

      Which means in the last 223 years of Constitutional Law, we've only had one real shake-up. Our electoral system does not encourage, in any way, new parties. It actively discourages them by design.

      A vote for a third party this time around is a vote for Romney, and considering who he's naming as his advisors and potential cabinet members, my response is not just "no" but "oh my gawd, fuck no."

      The immediacy of a derp-driven Pax Americana PNAC Redux But We Call it FPI Now Romney Presidency is a more immediate threat than a lack of third party viability.

      --
      BMO

    53. Re:This will be really interesting by Fjandr · · Score: 1

      A stable socialist state is not something in the cards for the US, hence comparing it to Italy is far more appropriate than comparing it to Norway or Sweden.

      No matter which direction the government goes, systematic corruption will remain the order of the day.

    54. Re:This will be really interesting by Fjandr · · Score: 1

      I shouldn't have used the word stable, but the appropriate adjective is not reaching my currently-addled brain.

    55. Re:This will be really interesting by reve_etrange · · Score: 1

      "Functioning?"

      In any event I think devaluation will always be more likely than default.

      --
      .: Semper Absurda :.
    56. Re:This will be really interesting by toddestan · · Score: 1

      A vote for a third party is also a vote for Obama.

      Besides, do you really think that Obama is really that different than Romney? As far as I can see they are very similar. Both will institute similar policies, and neither one is an acceptable choice. Even if you don't think they are similar, it's not like Obama is going to stand up to the Republicans and not cave in to whatever they demand.

      But hey, go ahead and admit defeat, and vote for more of the same, so that you can make the same choice in 4 years. Go ahead and throw away your vote on a candidate that doesn't support your views and doesn't represent you. People like you are part of the problem, not the solution.

    57. Re:This will be really interesting by bmo · · Score: 1

      >A vote for a third party is also a vote for Obama.

      Only if you're a Republican it is.

      >Besides, do you really think that Obama is really that different than Romney?

      Romney wants to attack Iran. This is apparent from his statements and who he has hired as his foreign policy advisors.

      You should pay attention to this stuff. It's important.

      > As far as I can see they are very similar.

      Ah, the "they're both the same so vote Republican."

      Yeah.

      >Both will institute similar policies

      Obama isn't hankerin' to bomb Iran.

      > People like you are part of the problem, not the solution.

      Oh good, a personal attack.

      Get fucked.

      --
      BMO

    58. Re:This will be really interesting by Mister+Transistor · · Score: 1

      Actually if you look at the times of the posts, this was the first attempt at the lie. The one positioned higher in the thread was his redundant attempt at repeating the lie later on, after he realized everyone was ignoring this one.

      --
      -- You are in a maze of little, twisty passages, all different... --
    59. Re:This will be really interesting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And how do you think it died? People stopped voting for them, that's how. And what did those people who used to vote for that party then do? Why by jolly they voted for a different party! Or do you really believe that those people simply stopped voting completely?

      Again, you are welcome.

  7. Accenture wrote it? by hsmith · · Score: 4, Funny

    Lord, I wouldn't worry about tinfoil conspiracies, it is straight up incompetence.

    Their consultants are terrible, and I mean that in the nicest way possible.

    1. Re:Accenture wrote it? by Jerome+H · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Could you shed some light to why Accenture is so terrible ? Slashdot's search didn't return any interesting links.

      --
      int main() { while(1) fork(); }
    2. Re:Accenture wrote it? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

      As a colleague of mine aptly put it: "We suck, but the others suck more" (I am one of those Accenture consultants, though not in the US)

    3. Re:Accenture wrote it? by TubeSteak · · Score: 2

      I have a friend who recently got a job at Accenture.
      When I heard, I sent him a text with just one word: Accidenture

      And since blackboxvoting seems to be /.ed
      Here's the coral cache link:
      http://www.bbvforums.org.nyud.net/forums/messages/7659/82111.html
      You'll find a torrent of the files in the comments

      --
      [Fuck Beta]
      o0t!
    4. Re:Accenture wrote it? by Peter+Simpson · · Score: 1

      Never ascribe to malice, that which can be explained by stupidity... Doubling, tripling; sounds to me like it could be explained by an untrained operator not receiving feedback that an operation has been completed, and so clicking again on the button which initiates the operation. Combine that extremely plausible scenario with software which doesn't bother to check before re-accumulating totals, and you have a likely explanation.

    5. Re:Accenture wrote it? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As one of those consultants I have to agree. What small to medium sized government wants to develop their own electronic voting system when they can employ a consulting company to build and support it. The use of access is not limited to Accenture however. The oft maligned Irish electronic voting system was also based on Access.

      Posting anonymously for obvious reasons.

    6. Re:Accenture wrote it? by scot4875 · · Score: 2

      In the case of the integrity of the voting process, what you've described is criminal negligence on the part of the software authors.

      --Jeremy

      --
      Jesus was a liberal
    7. Re:Accenture wrote it? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That would be plausible, except that in the scenario you described, you would expect to see the doubling and tripling have a reasonably random distribution across counties and candidates. The fact that we primarily see doubling / tripling in Republican-leaning counties ruins the theory that this is due to stupidity. Most reasonable people will look at this data and conclude that it is due to malice.

      Now, the question of whether people are reasonable is something else entirely.

    8. Re:Accenture wrote it? by mangu · · Score: 2

      The fact that they used MS-Access clearly indicates stupidity.

      Malice could also play a part here, of course, but I know of no instance where MS-Access is used that doesn't involve stupidity;

    9. Re:Accenture wrote it? by __aaltlg1547 · · Score: 1

      Never ascribe to malice, that which can be explained by stupidity... Doubling, tripling; sounds to me like it could be explained by an untrained operator not receiving feedback that an operation has been completed, and so clicking again on the button which initiates the operation. Combine that extremely plausible scenario with software which doesn't bother to check before re-accumulating totals, and you have a likely explanation.

      But that wouldn't correlate with location or party.

    10. Re:Accenture wrote it? by Jawnn · · Score: 1

      Lord, I wouldn't worry about tinfoil conspiracies, it is straight up incompetence. Their consultants are terrible, and I mean that in the nicest way possible.

      Given the stakes, I'd still be inclined to look at malfeasance. Indeed, if I really wanted to cover my tracks, I'd have "incompetents" build my system.

    11. Re:Accenture wrote it? by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      Still a better name then 'toilet and douche'

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    12. Re:Accenture wrote it? by dkleinsc · · Score: 4, Informative

      I only interviewed with them a long time ago, but here's what I saw that made me not want to work there, and should give you an idea of why they suck:
      1. The whole company is structured as "move up or move out". You have to get promoted at a particular pace, or you're fired. And yes, there are fewer promotions available than there are people on the team, so your coworkers are your competitors.
      2. There's a specific hierarchy and pay scale for techies which is kept separate and unequal from the hierarchy for everyone else. All techies are officially second class citizens, and there is no way for developers, no matter how much they contribute, to move anywhere beyond either a more senior developer position, or a front-line manager of developers.
      3. The pay was way lower than standard for somebody with my skill set and experience. You get what you pay for.

      Basically, they're the epitome of a corporate whale that provides very little real value while raking in tons of cash from big companies and government.

      --
      I am officially gone from /. Long live http://www.soylentnews.com/
    13. Re:Accenture wrote it? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Yeah, when I interviewed with them (also quite a while ago), the hiring manager told me, "We can train anyone to program in 3 weeks. We're not looking for highly skilled programmers." At that point I knew that all of their code must be crap and really didn't want to contribute to it. When I later learned that their business model involved overcharging the businesses of whomever the CEO was playing golf with and not caring what the results were, I was glad I didn't even bother calling them back when they wanted a second interview.

    14. Re:Accenture wrote it? by Squirrel+Killer · · Score: 1

      Never ascribe to malice, that which can be explained by stupidity... Doubling, tripling; sounds to me like it could be explained by an untrained operator not receiving feedback that an operation has been completed, and so clicking again on the button which initiates the operation.

      Other things being equal, a simpler explanation is better than a more complex one. It's a Cartesian select. The real question is why only certain precincts are affected.

    15. Re:Accenture wrote it? by JakartaDean · · Score: 1

      Never ascribe to malice, that which can be explained by stupidity... Doubling, tripling; sounds to me like it could be explained by an untrained operator not receiving feedback that an operation has been completed, and so clicking again on the button which initiates the operation. Combine that extremely plausible scenario with software which doesn't bother to check before re-accumulating totals, and you have a likely explanation.

      Not if you RTFA. The database tables WEREN'T NORMALIZED and the doubling/tripling seemed to coincide with updates to tables when, e.g., the VOTER table had a precinct column, but there was also a PRECINCT table. The data in one got changed, the business logic bit panicked and duplicated all the records for that precinct. I haven't written a line of code in decades and I know how to normalize tables.

      --
      The subject who is truly loyal to the Chief Magistrate will neither advise nor submit to arbitrary measures (Junius)
    16. Re:Accenture wrote it? by msobkow · · Score: 1

      I've worked for a few companies while Accenture handled projects over the years, and also "inherited" projects that were originally developed by Accenture.

      Without exception, every project of theirs that I've encountered has been poorly engineered, poorly coded, comes with thousands of pages of documentation that tells you nothing about the high level design of the system, and were coded by the cheapest underpaid grunts they could find.

      As far as I'm concerned, anyone who hires Accenture deserves to get shafted by their overcharging and errors, because all you have to do is trawl the newspapers to see a long, long history of litigation for failure to deliver. Anyone signing a contract with them is either not doing their due diligence, or they're getting a kickback of some kind. I don't believe for a second that anyone who has done their due diligence and investigated the company's history for non-delivery would ever sign them on.

      --
      I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
  8. This needs mirrors and fast, imo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    For one, the article is /.'d so I cant even read it..

    Second, if what she is alleging is correct then yes, it needs to be spread far and wide on the 'net (and off, too, backed up all over) because letting criminals get away with stealing elections is very wrong.

    Flame me, mod me down, whatever. But to stand by idly and let people that are evil win is wrong.

  9. torrent link by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

    Hey if this is against TOS then by all means, remove it.

    http://www.bbvforums.org/forums/messages/7659/ESM_2_0_8_23_04_zip__Burnbit_-82116.unk

    hopefully that is a working link to the torrent. its 325meg or so in size.

    1. Re:torrent link by whyloginwhysubscribe · · Score: 1

      Someone on reddit posted this link to an alternative torrent: http://burnbit.com/torrent/204972/ESM_2_0_8_23_04_zip

    2. Re:Torrent link by unitron · · Score: 1

      Was the earlier one pr0n?

      --

      I see even classic Slashdot is now pretty much unusable on dial up anymore.

  10. List, not Voting SW by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

    This is SW to maintain voter registration, not collect votes. Just because it is broken and shows a voter voted multiple times in an election does not necessarily mean that the voter actually was able to cast multiple votes or that the (independent) voting method (paper or electronic) was flawed.

  11. In Maryland Republicans opposed e-voting by cpu6502 · · Score: 3, Informative

    They were also joined by the MD-LP, because they knew e-voting could be easily hijacked. They felt the existed paper ballots worked just fine. Of course the Democrats have a ~70% majority in the Legislature, so they just rammed it through anyway (as they do with virtually everything). The Repub and Libertarian concerns have been proved correct 12 years later.

    --
    My AC stalker: " I personally agree with your posts most of the time, but that won't keep me from modding you troll"
    1. Re:In Maryland Republicans opposed e-voting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      With a 70% majority... you don't call it ramming... you call it... majority rules voting. It's kinda like democracy...

    2. Re:In Maryland Republicans opposed e-voting by GodfatherofSoul · · Score: 5, Informative

      "Just rammed it through" def'n: any legislation that passes that you don't like.

      --
      I swear to God...I swear to God! That is NOT how you treat your human!
    3. Re:In Maryland Republicans opposed e-voting by Mister+Transistor · · Score: 2

      Yeah, after they corrupted the system themselves (or had their business "partners" do it). Self-fulfilling Prophecy, it sounds like to me.

      As for ramming stuff through, that's the technique required when dealing with assholes.

      --
      -- You are in a maze of little, twisty passages, all different... --
    4. Re:In Maryland Republicans opposed e-voting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      In Ohio it was the republicans pushing their diebold voting machines. Incidentally, diebold is based in Ohio and is a significant republican contributor, so I'm more inclined to believe that this was your garden variety patronage/ legalized bribery than it was some Machiavellian scheme.

    5. Re:In Maryland Republicans opposed e-voting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      To be fair, electronic voting is all but mandated under the federal Help Americans Vote Act (signed into law by none other than GWB). A lot of local pols felt like they had to buy the machines.

    6. Re:In Maryland Republicans opposed e-voting by amorsen · · Score: 1

      The left tends to have a surprising faith in technology, apart from most of those on the left who actually work with technology. Maybe there's some kind of dream that technology will bring the 60's back?

      --
      Finally! A year of moderation! Ready for 2019?
  12. If for no other reason... by michaelwigle · · Score: 1

    ... than the Slashdot effect. Putting up a direct link to ZIP file on a blog and then getting the article on Slashdot is certainly a good way to melt the servers. Hopefully someone will get a torrent up for it soon so the hundreds of folks trying to download it don't trash the server (and take several days doing it since it's a 300+MB file).

    1. Re:If for no other reason... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      A guy in the comments on that page posted this torrent link:

      http://burnbit.com/torrent/204972/ESM_2_0_8_23_04_zip

    2. Re:If for no other reason... by gagol · · Score: 1

      I downloaded it will be happy to share my bandwith once the tracker recover too. At the moment it simply timeout.

      --
      Tomorrow is another day...
  13. This made me laugh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I know a bunch of county elections IT people in Colorado since I work in county IT (and nervously checked TFA hoping it wasn't one of our backups that got released). Let me tell you, if you think IT is stressful, add politics and see what happens. To anyone else about to start scrutinizing this Accenture crap: welcome to the party. We have to deal with horrible, over-costed, "best of the worst" third-party solutions on a daily basis because there simply aren't any alternatives.

    Let me tell you: if you were to start an open-source project for vote-counting you would have thousands of fed-up county contributors overnight.

    1. Re:This made me laugh by MonsterTrimble · · Score: 2

      Let me tell you: if you were to start an open-source project for vote-counting you would have thousands of fed-up county contributors overnight.

      What's stopping you guys then?

      --
      I call it 'The Aristocrats'
    2. Re:This made me laugh by robbo · · Score: 1

      "there simply aren't any alternatives"

      I'm pretty sure elections predate computers.
      I thought one of the virtues of democracy is that your vote is secret. What's all this stuff about 'voter history'?

      No voting mechanism is above abuse, but automated mechanisms offer the possibilty of abuse at scale, which is untenable. On election night, Canada counts 100% of their ballots *by hand*. There is abuse but it is localized and relatively easily identified.

      --
      So long, and thanks for all the Phish
    3. Re:This made me laugh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My wife was an IT manager in Colorado for a while. And she wrote software (cheaply) to do the recording stuff, because she didn't like the commercial (best-of-worst) options. I went to some of the presentations with her, and yeah, the available software is awful. And yet ... despite home-made, cheap, good software ... you know what? Unless you've got someone in the chain of command willing to fight for it, somehow, inevitably, the decision gets made to just buy the crap software after all. Some manager goes to a meeting, doesn't know any better, doesn't care, and poof -- suddenly you're stuck with it. Even when you TRY to do the right thing, it can still blow up on you.

    4. Re:This made me laugh by Pope · · Score: 1

      No voting mechanism is above abuse, but automated mechanisms offer the possibilty of abuse at scale, which is untenable. On election night, Canada counts 100% of their ballots *by hand*. There is abuse but it is localized and relatively easily identified.

      Canada also only votes for one thing at a time. US election ballots can have dozens or more offices up for grabs, let alone Propositions and other local ballot measures. That, IMHO, is the first thing that should be changed about the US voting system: keep the Federal elections separate from everything else.

      --
      It doesn't mean much now, it's built for the future.
    5. Re:This made me laugh by unitron · · Score: 1

      "I thought one of the virtues of democracy is that your vote is secret. What's all this stuff about 'voter history'?"

      I think voter history is at which precinct you showed up and voted during which election, not for whom you voted.

      --

      I see even classic Slashdot is now pretty much unusable on dial up anymore.

    6. Re:This made me laugh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually I put some money into that. Software got done. Nice python prototype. Demoable. Hereis one problem. The stuff has to be certified as good and. by the same people who certified the accidrnture software and it cost a million dollars. Even that should not be real problem either because the feds have grant money or just because it would save do much money to deploy and maintain. But ...

  14. Re:Accenture, formerly known as Anderson Consultin by geoffrobinson · · Score: 1

    I had a friend working for Anderson Consulting when Enron went down. They had nothing to do with Enron.

    --
    Except for ending slavery, the Nazis, communism, & securing American independence, war has never solved anything.
  15. Join the dark side, we have cookies by Orne · · Score: 4, Informative

    ... that votes are somehow being recorded twice and sometimes three times for certain voters in the voter history report

    To me, this sounds like someone's join isn't all that unique. Let's say you have two voters, Joe Smith, at two different addresses, that both voted. If you join a registration list with a vote list, on first and last name and not address, you actually end up with 4 combinations instead of 2, for twice the votes. Other things to check are overlapping effective/terminate date ranges, and compound primary key fields. Rookie mistakes, but big consequences.

    1. Re:Join the dark side, we have cookies by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Rookie mistake...

      Or clever intended bug implanted to LOOK like a rookie mistake...

  16. Torrent link by GuruBuckaroo · · Score: 4, Informative

    Earlier Anonymous torrent link was incorrect. Here's the one from the site: http://burnbit.com/torrent/204972/ESM_2_0_8_23_04_zip

    --
    Poor means hoping the toothache goes away.
  17. Mirrors by rainwalker · · Score: 2, Informative

    Since BBV is in bad shape, here's links to some mirrors.

    In the original forum thread, a poster linked a torrent for the actual software: http://burnbit.com/torrent/204972/ESM_2_0_8_23_04_zip

    I don't see a torrent for the notes archive, so here's a magnet link. Sorry if it stops working:

    :magnet:?xt=urn:btih:B206C1A526B57667D64903622A02C3B01CB22793&dn=Accenture_Wrap_up.zip&tr=udp%3a//tracker.openbittorrent.com%3a80/announce

  18. On the dangers of voting machines by unwastaken · · Score: 5, Informative

    Submitted this related article to Slashdot a few months ago. Bev Harris looked into this as well.

    To sum up the above link: An interesting phenomenon has occurred in every state of this year's Republican primaries. Votes appear to be flipped away from other candidates in favor of Romney, with a 99% correlation to precinct size. Although votes are "canvassed" (checked) after each primary, the methods used are primarily designed to detect vote stuffing, rather than vote flipping.

    This phenomenon has recently been shown to be absent if you can get your hands on poll tapes from individual machines, rather than from voting tabulators (machines that count the totals from the various voting machines).

    Voting machines are just scary stuff. More so since poll tapes are not always made readily available. Thankfully, a bill was recently introduced that would require poll tapes from individual machines (not just tabulators) to be made available by the next day following an election.

    1. Re:On the dangers of voting machines by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      So there was an actual programmatic change to enforce what we already knew would happen. I can't say I'm really surprised by this. I told people a year ago the GOP would not allow a reform candidate (Ron Paul) to win. Perhaps there was more behind the strong showing he had in the caucus states than I realized.

    2. Re:On the dangers of voting machines by unitron · · Score: 1

      Thank you.

      I couldn't remember whether or where I had bookmarked that, but saw it the first time around and it's scary stuff indeed.

      --

      I see even classic Slashdot is now pretty much unusable on dial up anymore.

    3. Re:On the dangers of voting machines by Khith · · Score: 3, Insightful

      If you're willing to wade through a ton of charts and statistics (well, this IS Slashdot) then check out this longer version.

      https://docs.google.com/file/d/0ByJAC-sfXwumdkE4d0Y2eWtURTZ2eDM5RmlLc3ZhQQ/edit?pli=1

      There's been major election fraud to prop up Romney and reduce the vote counts of others (but usually Ron Paul), and this is one of the things that the RNC is being sued over. This is also why Ron Paul has won several caucuses when the primaries (with the rigged machines) said he didn't win. It's much harder to falsify a bunch of people actually showing up to elect delegates.

    4. Re:On the dangers of voting machines by Khith · · Score: 1

      Rigged voting machines are just the tip of the iceberg. There's a lot more going on at multiple levels.

      Here's a compilation (mostly but not all videos) showing voting inconsistencies and fraud: http://www.dailypaul.com/238098/great-compilation-detailing-the-voting-inconsistencies-not-to-say-blatant-fraud

      Mitt Romney is essentially owned by the same people as Obama (check out their top donors), and his popularity was essentially manufactured by the media. Do a Google image search for "Romney Crowd" and compare with "Ron Paul Crowd". That is something that's impossible to fake, so it tends to go unreported. If you ask Paul supporters why they support their candidate, and they'll talk about many different issues at great length. If you ask Romney supporters the same question, you tend to hear "I voted for him because we need to get rid of Obama" or "He's a businessman, and that's gotta be good for the economy, right?" The people are voting against something (Obama) instead of voting FOR something. This is the type of reasoning that tends to make the new boss the same as the old boss.

  19. Re:Accenture, formerly known as Anderson Consultin by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Firstly, it's spelled "Andersen" and not "Anderson", and secondly Andersen Consulting split from AA back in 1989 and they weren't on speaking terms (even though they were techncially run by the same umbrella company) for most of this time.

    AC

  20. Its called job security by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    H1B people need job security too! If a few extra votes go toward the party that pushes hard for H1B expansion, who is going to notice?

  21. If you're wondering who Bev Harris is by sl4shd0rk · · Score: 4, Informative

    Highly recommend watching "Hacking Democracy".
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVTXbARGXso

    --
    Join the Slashcott! Feb 10 thru Feb 17!
  22. Re:Accenture, formerly known as Anderson Consultin by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Except it was Arthur Anderson who was in bed with Enron. The AC guys told AA to fuck of long before that happened.

  23. Re:Accenture wrote it?(Mod Me Up,Good Info herein) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    They built a MS Access DB for the front-end and used SQL for the back-end, this is industry standard for small business clerical solutions and is dirt cheap to do.

    Microsoft has a nasty habit of removing functions out of DLL's to provide security, or changing their behavior so code breaks in ways nobody notices. Either you patch and you have a reliability problem, or you don't and get a security problem.

    It's very likely the town decided they wanted to that setup because it's easy to exploit.

    Where Accenture comes in as being a boatload of fail, is that they didn't build ANY database validation or security into their system. It's RIDICULOUSLY simple to set up several blob's for each site, set up security-per-blob by site logon, set up kiosks under guest accounts in AD that have access to just their blob, have the data aggregate into those blob's, then run a report to tally, and here's the fail part, AND ANOTHER REPORT TO CONFIRM OBVIOUS MISTAKE ON THE ROLLS A MONKEY COULD SPOT ARE NOT HAPPENING!

    Voters voting twice, the number of votes on a field being counted several times, data field error checking to ensure valid characters are in a class...the STANDARD stuff. And we aren't talking about egregious or eccentric databasing here, we're talking about plain old simple databasing; field 1 is a name, field 2 is an address, field 3 is a telephone number, field 4 is the representative they wanted to vote for and so on and so on.

    If Accenture wants to come clean, give us the design document the were handled to perform the contract, in fact, I'd FOIA that sucker in light of this offense.

    IMO Windows has too large of an attack surface to be used for this; you need something with a minimal attack surface that can be updated and set up as needed. You need either Windows Server Core, or Linux. Heck, even Mac OSX would be better suited than XP or 7.

  24. What I see so far by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

    It's basically a bunch of monstrous Access databases. Unfortunately, most (all?) of the VBA code is in databases that have been compiled to .mde files. There's no simple way that I know of to get usable source code back from those, which is unfortunate, since that's probably where most of the damning evidence would be found. However, you can view table definitions and data, form and report designs, queries, etc. Fun fact: you can bypass the initial login by just holding the left shift key as you open voter.mde.

    1. Re:What I see so far by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This being /., someone will find a way. If only for bragging rights, so be it.

    2. Re:What I see so far by DragonWriter · · Score: 2

      It's basically a bunch of monstrous Access databases. Unfortunately, most (all?) of the VBA code is in databases that have been compiled to .mde files. There's no simple way that I know of to get usable source code back from those, which is unfortunate, since that's probably where most of the damning evidence would be found.

      There's at least one commercial service that for taking MDEs back to MDBs with VBA source, so it is certainly doable, if not simple.

  25. Re:I don't particularly care what some partisan ha by scot4875 · · Score: 2

    I don't particularly care what some partisan hack

    Careful, you sound like one of those partisan hacks yourself, what with your shooting the messenger and all.

    --Jeremy

    --
    Jesus was a liberal
  26. Huge by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This will rip the lid off the selling of our democracy down the river over the last 12 years.

    Ms. Harris should probably look into getting some police protection.

  27. Not all reliable... by SuperKendall · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    Not a bad list, but if you are going for credibility you should really remove any link to CNN.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
  28. How "odd" the percentages match by SuperKendall · · Score: 0

    whenever I see an article about these problems cropping up, about 9 times out of 10 it's the Republicans who are favored

    Couldn't have anything to do with 90% of journalists being Democrat, now could it?

    NAAHHHHH.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    1. Re:How "odd" the percentages match by AwesomeMcgee · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I've always found it ironic that people quote the majority of journalists being democrats as proof that they're biased, as opposed to thinking for a moment that the people who spend all day every day reporting the going-ons of the national political scene might have more first hand experience with both sides than most of us and in turn have a more informed opinion than us.

      Not saying reporting should be anything but objective, I would disagree with anyone who says it should, I just find it interesting that nobody takes this concept that most journalists are democrats as a possible indicator of something more than their bias.

      If 90% of astronomers believed there's no alien life (hypothetically- I don't know what they believe), I would think there's something to it, since they report on the going-ons out there. *points at space*

  29. The real facts by SuperKendall · · Score: 0

    The fact that we primarily see doubling / tripling in Republican-leaning counties

    The "fact" is that that she only LOOKED there.

    And the other FACT is that she is a non-technical person who probably screwed up her joins (look for another response that mentions that possibility).

    You and she are both believing only what you want to without solid proof. And that is a FACT.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
  30. Re:In my state (see post below) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    WTF?? Why don't you just SAY what state you're from, or failing that, provide a link to the "below" post? You ask for "sources please", but you are pretty slim on citations yourself.

  31. Tick Tock by SuperKendall · · Score: 1

    This being /., someone will find a way. If only for bragging rights, so be it.

    Your post sadly will not reach five years ago, where that would have been true.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
  32. Meta-shot by SuperKendall · · Score: 1

    Careful, you sound like one of those partisan hacks yourself, what with your shooting the messenger and all.

    He's complaining about ALL partisans, not just this one.

    Your own shot is far off the mark.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
  33. Re:I don't particularly care what some partisan ha by ifwm · · Score: 1

    Careful, you sound like one of those partisan hacks yourself, what with your shooting the messenger and all.

    Because pointing out and decrying partisanship is itself partisan, or something.../sarcasm

  34. Pearls of Wisdom from 6+ years in the field. by Gottesser · · Score: 5, Interesting
    I posted the article from Bev's press release. I worked on election fraud in 2004 for six years in Ohio. I was *hoping* all that time that we would find Democrats rigging for democrats. I had a punnet square going in my head. By and large 2004 was rigged for Bush. However, in the 18 of 88 counties we looked at what we found in over 30,000 photos of 126,000 ballots, poll books and signature books is that yes, Democrats sometimes rig for Republicans and Republicans sometime rigged for Democrats in down ticket races. The thing is that in a lot of Boards of Elections (county level) the "bipartisan" means someone switches parties. Sometimes this is a even a family member (the easiest one to push around).

    The recommendation and rationale goes like this... The person I trust is not necessarily the person you would trust therefore we need transparency. No system can be secured against its administrators therefore we need transparency over security.

    We must be able to verify four things. 1) Who can vote 2) Who did vote 3) Chain of custody 4) Vote count

    Failing any of these points our elections are simply staged theater. Right now, we're failing ALL these points. No electronic system can be verifiable. Can't be done. Even under a paper system its difficult to put checks in place and to have mechanisms where a single voter or group of voter can raise a concern (even an honest mistake) and have it taken care of. A botched election is notoriously hard to clean up. Especially because recounts can and have been rigged. Litigating election issues is nearly impossible. The integrity of the election cycle must be maintained so no voter off the street and even most candidates can't get an issue in court with enough time to change the outcome of an election.

    Therefore. *Most* Long term Election Integrity activists have come to support this basic starting principal: "Voter Marked Hand Counted Paper Ballots, Counted at the polls, on election night, no matter how long it takes, in full public view before all those who want to witness the count and before the ballots are moved and chain of custody issues arise."

    Now. That handles points 3 and 4 but to be honest. 1 and 2 are tricky. They kinda require databases at this point because unlike the pool of poll workers this system don't scale well with the population. Bev's been finding voter histories have been erased in several counties in Tennessee. This is important because if a registered voter hasn't voted in a while then as part of house keeping (the person may have died or moved) they eventually get purged from the voter rolls. So someone(s) in Tennessee is erasing peoples' vote history so they get purged, show up at the polls and can't vote. There's already been some court rulings to handle this. The point is we need to remain vigilant and we need things transparent so we CAN be vigilant. We don't need computers to solve everything. We need the public to relearn how to do their civic duty and to do that civic duty.

    1. Re:Pearls of Wisdom from 6+ years in the field. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      The solution to 1) and 2) is compulsory voting. Hard to play silly buggers with who votes when everyone has to. Want to see how to run elections, look at Australia. Hand counted, hand marked compulsory voting with the whole process overseen and managed by an independent, non-partisan body.

  35. those rotten bastards are in my building by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I should go fling poop in their offices

  36. Wrong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Well, at least the government can't frame her on a rape charge.

    She will be charged with molestation and pretending to use a condom while not doing so. She won't become a rapist, but a 95% rapist.

  37. Much ado about nothing. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Any large database of personal information is going to contain numerous errors and inconsistencies. If you imagine an ideal election where the outcome is perfectly based on every legally eligible voter's intent, then current voting systems achieve about 1/10 of 1% accuracy. That is, any election result that is closer than 1 out of 1000 is correct perhaps half the time. Recounts are largely meaningless. The good news is that about half of all voters will be happy no matter what the result is. What computer people fail to appreciate is that the tried and true methods of fixing elections still work today namely "stuffing" ballot boxes, that is providing votes for people who do not vote themselves and the opposite, losing votes. Paper systems are, of of course, particularly susceptible to this type of manipulation. A more insidious method would be to have more than usual incorrect addresses for voters of a particular party or area thus reducing opposition turnout. Note that election results are normally geographically quite predictable. No amount of computer code diddling will detect a fraud of this nature, you would presumably need to look at post office records. While many coders may enjoy the masterbatorial pleasure of criticizing others, truly detecting election fraud requires actual hard work, always in short supply.

  38. Access? Really? by JDG1980 · · Score: 1

    Much source code exists within the structure because it is built on MS Access.

    MS Access is an absolutely horrible choice for any kind of production software, much less something as important as voting. Even MS tries their best to steer people away from it and toward MS SQL Server instead. What on earth were these programmers thinking?

    1. Re:Access? Really? by NettiWelho · · Score: 1

      >.... What on earth were these programmers thinking?

      "Hopefully this will work."

  39. Hmm by headhot · · Score: 1

    Some one better get it up on Tor and the Pirate Bay ASAP.

  40. Before everyone goes nuts on this, make sure... by magbottle · · Score: 0

    you read carefully.

    This is not e-voting software. No votes were counted and applied to the results of elections.

    This is voter registration and list software that keeps track of voter registrations tallies voter histories.

    The voter _histories_ have miscounts.

  41. Mother of God by bacon.frankfurter · · Score: 1

    ...because it is built on MS Access.

    I can't believe I just read that.

  42. The problem is obvious by msobkow · · Score: 1

    They used a toy database that's meant for prototyping and small systems requirements.

    Only a complete and utter moron would deploy a multi-user system using Access.

    --
    I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
  43. the fools put it on bit torrent by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Hey BEV if you read this - for those of us who understand how dangerous bit torrent can be, how about an alternate method of getting at the files?

  44. Andersen Consulting with new name same crp by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    the most idiot people i have ever worked with were from Andersen Consulting

  45. m$ Access?!?!?! by LifesABeach · · Score: 1

    I don't think I've ever had to work with a crappier data base/table program. It makes reading and writing to a random access text file rational. Who ever said yes to m$ Access should be looking at hard jail time.

  46. Eggcorn by gumpish · · Score: 4, Informative

    Indeed. You've been using an eggcorn. By far one of the most common ones in use, but every bit as nonsensical as the others found in this sampling:
    ===============
    Allow me to play doubles advocate here for a moment. For all intensive purposes I think you are wrong.
    In an age where false morals are a diamond dozen, true virtues are a blessing in the skies. We often put our false morality on a petal stool like a bunch of pre-Madonnas, but you all seem to be taking something very valuable for granite. So I ask of you to mustard up all the strength you can because it is a doggy dog world out there. Although there is some merit to what you are saying it seems like you have a huge ship on your shoulder. In your argument you seem to throw everything in but the kids Nsync, and even though you are having a feel day with this I am here to bring you back into reality. I have a sick sense when it comes to these types of things. It is almost spooky, because I cannot turn a blonde eye to these glaring flaws in your rhetoric. I have zero taller ants when it comes to people spouting out hate in the name of moral righteousness. You just need to remember what comes around is all around, and when supply and command fails you will be the first to go.
    ===============

    My intent isn't to insult, just to encourage people to think about any phrase that doesn't actually make sense.

    1. Re:Eggcorn by unitron · · Score: 1

      You left out "tow the line" and "hone in on", and there's at least one other one I'll remember again about 3 days after they close comments on this story.

      --

      I see even classic Slashdot is now pretty much unusable on dial up anymore.

    2. Re:Eggcorn by kobaz · · Score: 1

      For all intensive purposes I think you are wrong.

      To all intents and purposes

      --

      The goal of computer science is to build something that will last at least until we've finished building it.
    3. Re:Eggcorn by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Seriously? SERIOUSLY?

    4. Re:Eggcorn by Rysc · · Score: 1

      That whooshing sound is the point passing far above your head. Look up! Maybe you can still get a glimpse of it.

      --
      I want my Cowboyneal
    5. Re:Eggcorn by Alsee · · Score: 1

      I think you mist the point.

      -

      --
      - - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
  47. Eggcorn by gumpish · · Score: 1

    I certainly understand the origin of the phenomenon, but clearly it makes no sense to "must of" or "should of" done something. This is the same thing as "for all intensive purposes"... it's an eggcorn. Someone hears a spoken phrase enough times to understand its meaning via context, but never actually caught the exact words.

    The reason this gets my attention is because it means the person is saying something that they know doesn't actually MAKE SENSE, they think it's some bizarre idiom or something. No one should say things that are nonsense unless it's performance art. (Or they're politicians.)

  48. Source Code Comments by pgn674 · · Score: 1

    I ran a quick strings and grep on all the files, hoping to get some juicy comments from source code, but I didn't get much:

    • ESM 2.0 8-23-04/VoterDTSSetup/CMISDTS.mdb: I HATE ACCESS 2000!!!! (Works in Access 97)
    • ESM 2.0 8-23-04/SampleData/DatasetSmall/Voter.mdb: !!!! Does not check if a Vote Has Been recorded. Only checks status information !!!! (Should this change?)
    • ESM 2.0 8-23-04/SampleData/DatasetComplete/Voter.mdb: RJD080299 Fixed stupid bug that counted down to 0...
  49. It was more advanced when it was PUNCHARD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    *sigh* We had punch card voting running at 1,000 votes counted per minute posting data to a MySQL database using Borland Builder front ends.

    I'm kinda glad I don't run elections anymore, the technology just keeps regressing.

  50. Britain? Ha! by JamieKitson · · Score: 1

    The idea that the British government (I am British btw) could orchestrate any sort of cyber attack is a joke. Have you seen the reports on any NHS project recently? Have you ever seen James Bond at a computer? No. I rest my case.

  51. Re:Accenture wrote it?(Mod Me Up,Good Info herein) by PlusFiveTroll · · Score: 1

    A machine like this is the perfect place for a small OS that weighs in at a few hundred MB at the most. It is also a legitimate place for UEFI encryption, encrypt and sign the bootloader, and have all the executable content on the machine signed and unsigned stuff wouldn't run. In this case a voting machine is not a general purpose computer and doesn't need a full OS that can run anything. WhyTF does it need windows, WhyTF does it need virus scanning. A much simpler system of checking the TPM and the signatures on the filesystem, then having a bloody fit of one of them fails to pass is much more secure and a whole lot easier to verify.

    The only problem with doing that, it would require some work and a few smart people. What they have now sounds like some cobbled together shit done as cheaply as possible, marked up as much as possible to extract as much revenue from the state as possible.