Ask Slashdot: No-Install Programming At Work?

An anonymous reader writes "Hello! Every summer (and other holidays) the work load at my job becomes minimal. I like scripting (HTML, CSS etc.) and would like to get into programming just to tinker a bit due to curiosity. At work we are not allowed to install anything except company approved software. Is there something I can program in that has an IDE like PortableApps.com? I guess I am asking for a recommendation on both language and IDE at the same time. Again, I want to reiterate that this is to satisfy my tinkering curiosity and thus not need something great, just something more advanced than HTML/CSS."

Comments

Codeacademy

[Anonymous Coward]

Codeacademy.com

Re:Codeacademy

[Hognoxious]

When I see that word it makes wonder what a deacademy is, and why two or more might unite.

Re:Codeacademy

[Pseudonym]

Or it's the dual object of a deacadamy.

Re:Codeacademy

[datavirtue]

netbeans is an excellent Java/C++/HTML/JavaScript/PHP/CSS IDE and does not have to be "installed." Unzip and run.

Re:Codeacademy

[Elminster Aumar]

Eclipse, too. But if we're talking about "tinkering" here, I'd vote for nothing more than a simple text editor and HTML5 / JavaScript. JavaScript is a difficult language in and of itself to grasp, let alone something massive like Java, so if he / she is just messing around with stuff, I'd vote for something smaller / more easily grasped than Java... (Just my opinion.)

Uhh

[Anonymous Coward]

How about you tinker on your own time before IT finds out and your ass gets fired?

Re:Uhh

[Anonymous Coward]

Shut up asshole. If the workload is light, and the boss finds you trying to expand your skills, you really think that's a hanging offense? If you don't have an impulse to do this sort of thing, you're in the wrong profession. Git'r'done sandbags like you should look up the term 'false economy'.

Re:Uhh

[jtownatpunk.net]

^^^Ding ding ding!!!^^^

The ownership of anything you do during your work hours would be in question (at best). Most likely, if you're in IT, you've signed something that says anything you create while on the clock belongs to your employer and there would be no question at all. They're paying you to do the work they provide. If they can't keep you busy and you don't want to be paid to sit on your ass, find an employer that can keep you engaged.

If you insist on doing personal stuff during work hours, at least be smart enough to do it on your own equipment. You can get a brand new craptop for under $300. Frys has 7 15" laptops between $249.99 and $299.99.

Re:Uhh

[Pf0tzenpfritz]

The ownership of anything you do during your work hours would be in question (at best). Most likely, if you're in IT, you've signed something that says anything you create while on the clock belongs to your employer and there would be no question at all.

OMG. So his employer might pantent "Hello World", if he get's caught learning to program at work!!

Re:Uhh

[History's Coming To]

My previous employer included something along the lines of "any program or invention written while in our employ belongs to the company, whether or not it relates to the business".

Simple solution, point out that this includes ownership of any malware I might write.

Re:Uhh

[spazdor]

You're right, that will definitely convince them to reconsider their overly strict policy not to mention help to cement your job security.

related: http://xkcd.com/651/

Re:Uhh

[__aaltlg1547]

Yeah then they'll explicitly forbid you to write any program whatsoever on or off company equipment and time.

Re:Uhh

[Jane Q. Public]

"The ownership of anything you do during your work hours would be in question (at best)."

He was asking about learning how to program. It is not likely that he will come up with the next "killer app" in the process. Although what you say is good advice, it probably could have waited a year or two.

As for paying work, he already stated that work was slow. Better that he spend the time learning something that might be somewhat job-related, than spend half a day on Reddit.

Re:Uhh

[Jane Q. Public]

I was hired by a company that gave me one of those, too.

I went to the manager and told him I wouldn't sign it, because I worked on my own (non-job-related) projects at home. He understood and said I didn't have to sign it, that it was for the more run-of-the-mill employee who would be tempted to take company secrets and run.

Re:Uhh

[Jane Q. Public]

I should also add that such an agreement is gross overkill where I live. According to State law here, anything you do while on your employer's clock belongs to the employer anyway, unless you have made specific, prior arrangements.

Re:Uhh

[Anonymous Coward]

I have worked at call centers where the boss is afraid of the worker bees. To the point where people were not just fired, security would come and physically escort them out on the spot.

I worked at a place where a whole center was down. I recommended they flip the switch on because I didn't see the connect lights flashing on the computer NICs. Couple days later, I got the ax. At least because they were able to get up and running, I didn't get escorted out. My badge just didn't work in the reader, and when I went to the security desk, I was handed my pink slip.

So, I completely understand environments like where the OP is in where they don't give a flying fuck how educated people are, because to them, human resources are fungible.

And here, in the US, they are, because H-1Bs are so trivial to hire for any meaningful task.

Re:Uhh

[viperidaenz]

If he starts the next facebook and it turns into a billion dollar company, say hello to millions upon millions of dollars worth of legal fees.

Re:Uhh

[narcc]

Yeah, those human resources are fucking fungilbe as shit

Re:Uhh

[fluffy99]

Or his employer might decide he's not being productive if he has time to "play" with non-work related stuff. Why not ask you boss for permission? Otherwise, generally if you're not allowed to install software there is also a policy that you will not run unauthorized software either.

Re:Uhh

[swillden]

The ownership of anything you do during your work hours would be in question (at best).

Which is relevant how?

His goals are to learn something and pass the time, not build the next killer app. How does it his employer potentially owning the code he writes interfere with those goals?

Re:Uhh

[lynnae]

dear god and if that was the actual wording, they could say they own anything you do in your off time as well. /keep my work, and my 'play' very separate

Re:Uhh

[Billly Gates]

I agree.

My first thought was holy crap! You are being paid to work what are you thinking? I am shocked no one hear besides myself (modded down to 1) brought this up.

Unless you are hired to learn new things to expand job responsibilities then you are stealing. 90% of the real world would be fired or would be laid off as it shows his boss over hired. I find this practice unethical.

Do that at home where it belongs and if things die down at work there is always something to do so you do not need to put out fired later at the worst possible time when things are busy. QA, testing, code refactoring, etc. The owners and customers need to find value in what you do and if you do not like it quit and go back to school to learn or start your own company.

Maybe I am just old fashioned but from where I have worked and what I have seen just asking this is astounding as who pays the bills?

Re:Uhh

[PNutts]

If I had a billion dollar company I wouldn't worry about millions of dollars of legal fees.

Re:Uhh

[GreyWolf3000]

Sounds like a horrible problem to have.

Re:Uhh

[viperidaenz]

It would be if you spent all your time and money on it, then end up bankrupt because you lost the court case and can't pay the lawyers fees.

Re:Uhh

[viperidaenz]

You would if you lost the legal fights and your billion dollar company.

Re:Uhh

[master_kaos]

Glad I don't work at a place like that. At my place when it is slow I am pretty much allowed to do whatever I want (managers approval). I usually tinker around with technology that I normaly do not get to use. Quite a bit of my tinkering arond has made me a better developer, as well as introduced new technology into our existing projects to make them even better. My boss was so pleased with my "screwing around" that now he has implemented a google style "20% time" (as long as no major deadline for something) where we can do whatever he hell we want one day a week (although generally I find it more efffective saving the days and doing 4 days in a row). Can do anything from playing with technology, to reading tech magazines, reading development books THe thing my manager loved the most that I did was screwing around with solr which we ended up implementing into our flagship product and upping revenue by 15%

Re:Uhh

[__aaltlg1547]

So your company assumes that most of its creative employees are dishonest and that's OK with you?

Re:Uhh

[ArhcAngel]

But the money you make selling your story for the made-for-TV movie will more than cover those costs.

Re:Uhh

[ChrisMaple]

In California, and perhaps other states, it is law that an employer cannot claim ownership of work done on independent projects not using the employer's property. Contract terms to the contrary are overruled by the law.

Re:Uhh

[Jane Q. Public]

"So your company assumes that most of its creative employees are dishonest and that's OK with you?"

Even worse; it was handing out those "all your inventions are belong to us" forms to new employees, just like all those thousands of other, equally dishonest companies.

I haven't worked there in years.

Re:Uhh

[91degrees]

He did give the guy advice.

Whether it's relevant or useful is up to the OP.

Re:Uhh

[X0563511]

Call centers want seat-warming script readers, not thinking people. That's the nature of a "cheap as it can be" call center. If you show initiative, three things can happen:

1. You're suppressed until you're a drooling robot like everyone else, or you leave.
2. You're axed, because you're upsetting the statu quo.
3. You're advanced, because somehow you managed to show your brain without falling victim to #1 or #2.

Re:Uhh

[X0563511]

Unless you are hired to learn new things to expand job responsibilities then you are stealing.

Interestingly my job description and my annual reviews reflect upon the fact that they want us to do such learning. Also, stealing? What the fuck? What are you stealing? If you get your job done, then you earned your pay. Sure, if you put in overtime to cover then it's wrong, but even then "stealing" is the wrong word. Fraud perhaps, since you are in effect falsifying records. If you don't get your actual job done, then you are failing to do your job and should be disciplined for that. You don't get paid in advance, so failing to do your job isn't "stealing" - it's just failing to do your job (whatever the reason).

Re:Uhh

[X0563511]

Yeah then they'll explicitly forbid you to write any program whatsoever on or off company equipment and time.

Yea, and how would that be enforceable or even legal?

Re:Uhh

[X0563511]

Bunch of hyperbole. That level of enforcement is, well, nonenforcable. Just go. If they lawyer up, lawyer up back and get those nice little contracts they wrote up turned into trash.

Re:Uhh

[Hognoxious]

Or his employer might decide he's not being productive if he has time to "play" with non-work related stuff.

It's pretty clear (by applying an advanced technique known as reading the fucking question already) that his job in some place that has a a pattern of peaks and troughs. Examples off the top of my head: college admissions office, florist, ice cream maker, CPA.

See, it works like this: you need to have people there all the time, because there's always some work coming in, possibly at short notice. Other times, you have tons of work coming in and it's all real goddam urgent.

Now a DeVry MBA (why single DeVry out - Ed) would say employ staffers cover the minimum workload and bring temps in as necessary to cover the peaks. Awesome, unless you're the one person who knows the job but can't do it because he's trying to train, cajole & clear up after ten people who don't know their arses from their elbows and don't care either.

tl;dr: you're an asshat, a bootlicker and your analysis is simplistic in the extreme.

Re:Uhh

[stoolpigeon]

If you live in the US - it may not matter.

I know of one case where a developer went to the employer, had the legal team sign off on his side project being his own and years later when it was successful, they took it.

The case was DDB Technologies, Inc. v. MLB Advanced Media. Here is a link to a pdf of a law journal discussing the case - http://scholarlycommons.law.northwestern.edu/njtip/vol7/iss3/3/

Re:Uhh

[Anonymous Coward]

We have downtime nearly every work night (government job, 12 hour rotating night shift, sitting at a terminal waiting for work to come to us). If we try to use a work computer for any activity other than work, we are immediately fired. However, our boss has given permission to bring anything from a PMP to a tablet to a full laptop computer, as long as we use good judgement and put it aside when work comes in. There's even a WiFi AP available that is not monitored by IT, though the signal is weak in my office. I've done everything from web development to Netflix watching to WoW raids during downtime over the past few years.

tl;dr: Bring your own gear so you don't get fired.

Re:Uhh

[Gr8Apes]

This goes back to not being stupid, not involving your current co-workers, and keeping things that should be secret, well, secret. If you're going to develop things on your own, you don't go about airing what you're working on while working for someone else. Note that many businesses have started this way, and none of those were owned by founders previous employers, primarily because they didn't take the imbecile action like patenting things while employed nor talk about "this great idea I have" to everyone they worked with. If something is patented a month after you leave, then at best for the company, it becomes a battle of when the moment of elucidation occurred, and as long as your discoverable paper trail is adequate, it will never support their case. Yes, it's a dirty game.

Re:Uhh

[del_diablo]

What if at some time, he joined something like a game engine, a kernel, or a useful application in development? Still not a problem?

Re:Uhh

[pla]

What the hell do all of you "oooh, don't do it, if they want you to sit there and drool, you'd damned well better sit there and drool" people have wrong with you? Because seriously, mere subservience doesn't suffice to explain it.


Unless you are hired to learn new things to expand job responsibilities then you are stealing. 90% of the real world would be fired or would be laid off as it shows his boss over hired. I find this practice unethical.

Stealing? Chill on the hyperbole. Very few jobs involve an even 24/7/365 workload; many have seasonal variations, some have monthly variations, some have huge daily swings. And although you can hire and fire untrained salesdrones and telemarketers on a whim, you don't just get rid of 30% of your accounting staff because the 2nd week of the fiscal month doesn't have much to do.

The average office worker spends their down time playing Solitaire, or if allowed to go online, reading Facebook or sports news. I wish some of my coworkers would do something like learn a new skill instead. That said, I have nothing against Solitaire, but as long as you have people on the clock but no work for them to do, why not encourage them to do something at least tangentially productive?


This guy wants to learn to program while staying within the company rules - He didn't ask how to root his machine to install a compiler, he didn't ask how to hide his activity, he just asked for a no-install coding playground.

We freed the slaves in the late 1800s. Stop acting like one.

Re:Uhh

[swillden]

What if at some time, he joined something like a game engine, a kernel, or a useful application in development? Still not a problem?

At the point when he decides to start doing those things, he should start being careful about ownership.

Re:Uhh

[datavirtue]

Yeah, you are old fashioned. The production oriented carrot-stick method died twenty years ago but still lingers on in certain enclaves populated with fossils such as yourself. I've never had a job that enforced the philosophies you speak of and I would leave instantly, no matter the consequences, if I had to endure that attitude or micromanagement. You have no evidence that says my tinkering is not going to benefit the company. All you see is someone who is not slaving away at an assigned task and your small mind cringes. Fuck off and get some modern management training.

Re:Uhh

[fluffy99]

In your inexplicable urge to sound high and mighty, you totally missed the point. Yes, I read the question, and I totally recognize that some jobs have surges and slow times. Had a few like that myself and had bosses that praised my initiative in learning while idle, and one that told me to go home because he wasn't paying me to fart around.

What I was pointing out was that if he's idle and wants to do something he thinks might be a useful, then he should let his boss know. Particularly if that action could be viewed as violating some IT policy and might be used as an excuse to shitcan him. Keep in mind that non-tech HR types will be happy to call it hacking software if they are trying to fire you.

Bottom line is that being sneaky about this is not a good idea.

Re:Uhh

[Anonymous Coward]

You can put whatever you want in a contract. Doesn't make it enforceable. That would be laughed out of court in every jurisdiction with which I am familiar.

Re:Uhh

[Elminster Aumar]

Creating multi million dollar conglomerates during work hours with nothing more than a tinkering mindset and an uninstallable IDE aside, I think he's safe... And for whatever it's worth, any employer (who employs IT professionals) that has a conniption fit over someone trying to improve their skillets isn't worth working for anyway and only goes to show how little they truly understand about the IT field.

Re:Uhh

[Tsingi]

My previous employer included something along the lines of "any program or invention written while in our employ belongs to the company, whether or not it relates to the business".

I signed that too. It's totally illegal so who gives a fuck?

Re:Uhh

[psiclops]

Keep in mind that non-tech HR types will be happy to call it hacking software if they are trying to fire you.

regardless of how non-tech someone is, if they consider 'following IT policy of not installing things' to be hacking they probably haven't figured out how to make it out of their front door yet, so i wouldn't be scared of them firing you.

Re:Uhh

[Hognoxious]

You're the one who starting throwing terms like "not being productive" around.

I like how when you do it it's showing initiative but when someone else does it it's playing in work time.

Re:Uhh

[__aaltlg1547]

Yeah then they'll explicitly forbid you to write any program whatsoever on or off company equipment and time.

Yea, and how would that be enforceable or even legal?

In the USA, you can make just about any behavior or lack thereof a condition of employment and in most states you can fire anybody for any reason or no reason.

Re:Uhh

[X0563511]

You're missing my point. How are they to enforce what you do off hours and on your own equipment? Are you supposed to let them come by and inspect your stuff? Monitor you 24/7?

Re:Uhh

[badkarmadayaccount]

Does that mean I can impregnate a willing woman there, and the baby will be company responisbility?

Re:Uhh

[fluffy99]

You're the one who starting throwing terms like "not being productive" around.

I like how when you do it it's showing initiative but when someone else does it it's playing in work time.

The difference was that I talked to my boss and asked how he wanted me to occupy my idle time. If I decided to learn how to program when my job was boring data entry without talking to my boss, then yes I would call that playing around.

Re:Uhh

[fluffy99]

Keep in mind that non-tech HR types will be happy to call it hacking software if they are trying to fire you.

regardless of how non-tech someone is, if they consider 'following IT policy of not installing things' to be hacking they probably haven't figured out how to make it out of their front door yet, so i wouldn't be scared of them firing you.

I doubt the policy just says "do not install software". More than likely if there is an official user policy it covers surfing inappropriate web sites, installing, software, attempting to bypass security features, personal use, etc. From the question, I assumed the poster didn't have admin rights or didn't want it to be obvious that he was using outside software.

As for the non-tech types twisting things, I have seen someone get canned for surfing ebay because it was they only thing they could make stick. They couldn't fire the guy for being lazy and a jerk, but they had his signature on a computer user agreement that forbid personal use of computer equipment.

Portable Python?

[PCM2]

You don't say much about language preference, but would Portable Python fill the bill? I know you asked for an IDE as well, and there might be options for that -- or really any text editor will do -- but this might be a place to start.

Re:Portable Python?

[multicoregeneral]

Or, if you're into PHP, there are several no install apache web servers you can put on a pen drive. They're both great languages though. Truth be told, I think Python is more fun, but I've always found PHP more useful.

Re:Portable Python?

[PCM2]

Actually, if this is the guy's first forays into "proper programming," I'd tend to maybe steer clear of an IDE, and certainly something as complex as Eclipse. You don't really need it, and a big IDE like that just becomes one more thing to learn, i.e. one more barrier to entry. If what you want to do is write a program and get that magic feeling of watching the program run and seeing it do what it's supposed to do, then just rush on in and do that! No need to learn some IDE. IDEs are great for people who do programming every day and who have to maintain big code bases and work within a group. But if all you want to do is learn to program, I say skip it for now. Save it for when you start doing something ambitious and the tools an IDE gives you are actually useful.

Re:Portable Python?

[Dr_Barnowl]

Komodo Edit is pretty good for Python, and easy enough to shove on a USB stick.

Re:Portable Python?

[lister king of smeg]

you could try putting portable virtualbox on a flash drive 32 gig aught to do and install say ubuntu or debian on a vm then do your development in there

Re:Portable Python?

[History's Coming To]

Yup. I do most of my work in PHP (only a step up from HTML/CSS, so a useful one for the OP) and it's all done using gedit with a couple of custom plugins. I've tried various IDEs but they seem amazingly bloated for my needs.

Re:Portable Python?

[ohnocitizen]

Since pyqt and pygtk are included, there are some python based python editors that don't need to be installed to run (and have the dependencies they need). Perhaps something like http://eric-ide.python-projects.org/. I'd suggest (the dated) drpython as a beginner, but I'm not sure if wxpython is included in portable python.

Re:Portable Python?

[Wandering Voice]

Id also like to give mention to Komodo Edit. I've been using this for a couple years now (as a hobby user*) and it fits my needs well.

* XHTML, CSS, PHP, Python

Re:Portable Python?

[hairyfeet]

If he wants an IDE then he can use Sharpdevelop portable which gives him half a dozen languages he can work in from the IDE. HTH.

Re:Portable Python?

[Undead Waffle]

Yeah things like code completion and syntax checking are terrible for people trying to learn.

Re:Portable Python?

[fluffy99]

Something simple and somewhat context-aware like Notepad++ would satisfy what he needs. Maybe the free version of Komodo, although I've gotten to dislike it's slow load time.

Re:Portable Python?

[X0563511]

Not gonna work - unless you are OK with it being a no-network virtual machine, virtualbox (or vmware, or anything except Qemu) requires drivers and/or services to be installed.

Re:Portable Python?

[ABCC]

Why not go the whole hawg and use vim?

http://portableapps.com/apps/development/gvim_portable

Re:Portable Python?

[msobkow]

I'd have to disagree. One of the key things an IDE buys you is an automated build. So instead of learning a bazillion compiler options, make, ant, and other tools used to control the build process, you just write the code in the IDE, click on debug, and you're off and tracing through your code.

I think one of the most valuable things an IDE like Eclipse or Visual Studio gives a new programmer is the ability to step through their code and see what it's actually doing, line by line.

You just can't get that kind of an education from command line tools without a lot more work than it takes to learn the basics of an IDE. You don't need to learn all the keyboard shortcuts and such for an IDE in order to use it.

Re:Portable Python?

[datavirtue]

I would have a shared hosting account at the very least. Use filezilla and no-install IDE like Netbeans. Do not use the Netbeans built-in FTP unless you want your project hosed.

Re:Portable Python?

[datavirtue]

No way man. The IDE is not a barrier to entry, it removes barriers in some respects by making the iterations flow easier. Once a project grows to a certain size you are going to spend more time and brain power hunting for functions than actually programming if you do not have and IDE. I stayed away from IDEs for web scripting until I needed the function navigator. I used Geanie until the project outgrew that and then moved to netbeans. Geanie is awesome for small/medium projects by the way.

Re:Portable Python?

[datavirtue]

Geanie has function/class navigation.

Re:Portable Python?

[PCM2]

I'd have to disagree. One of the key things an IDE buys you is an automated build. So instead of learning a bazillion compiler options, make, ant, and other tools used to control the build process, you just write the code in the IDE, click on debug, and you're off and tracing through your code.

This assumes he'll be using a compiled language, which also would not be my recommendation at this juncture.

Re:Portable Python?

[PCM2]

Once a project grows to a certain size ...

You seem to be saying exactly what I was saying. The main difference is that you seem to have missed the fact that he doesn't have any projects of any size.

Re:Portable Python?

[History's Coming To]

No, a steady hand and a magnetized needle is programming, anything else is just scripting. The point is that PHP introduces logic, loops and conditions and the like, to an environment the OP is already familiar with.

Re:Portable Python?

[psiclops]

i fail to see the word programming anywhere in the post you're replying to........

Re:Portable Python?

[multicoregeneral]

Netbeans CVS is also good for hosing projects.

Eclipse

[Anonymous Coward]

it's possible to run eclipse without installing anything, just from the executable in the directory.

also, BlueJ i think you can do the same thing.

Eclipse has a built in java compiler too i believe so you don't need to install the jdk.

Re:Eclipse

[ericloewe]

Eclipse does need Java to run, though. That might complicate matters a bit.

Re:Eclipse

[lennier1]

Not sure if they finally fixed that, but the last time I tried that, it still needed two minor adjustments in a config file to run reliably from a USB stick.

Re:Eclipse

[Anonymous Coward]

The entire JRE can be run from a directory as well.

Re:Eclipse

[thegarbz]

So do an incredible number of corporate apps. I've yet to see a work place small or large which didn't have a JRE installed on their machines by default. If workplaces like this do exist I imagine they would be a minority.

Re:Eclipse

[viperidaenz]

It'll probably still get you fired if you're found out. There's no harm in installing something if no part of it is never executed. Its running the thing that can cause problems.

Also, unzipping an application archive is no different that running a self extracting archive, which is no different to many installers. The process and end result is the same, the only difference is the method used.

Re:Eclipse

[drkstr1]

I just remembered, you don't even need to "install" java, per say. Just drop the jre directory somewhere (either extracting it from the standalone linux archive, or by copying it from another windows install), and set your JAVA_HOME environment variable to point to the directory.

Re:Eclipse

[ZombieBraintrust]

If he is working on a windows machine then there is a good chance some version of the Java JRE is already there.

Re:Eclipse

[X0563511]

... and if not, just install it at home and zip up the java directory. Extract that somewhere and either put it in your %PATH%, or tweak the eclipse INI to point to it directly.

Java doesn't actually NEED an installer - it just adds some file associations, browser plugins, a control panel item, and some "shortcut" binaries into system32. Totally optional. Wish they would provide a simple zip download for people who just want the JRE/JDK without all the other goodies.

Re:Eclipse

[spongman]

you can extract the jre from the download using 7-zip.

download the 7-zip .msi installer.
extract and run 7-zip:
    msiexec /a /qb TARGETDIR=%TEMP%
    %TEMP%\Files\7-Zip\7zFM.exe

then download the JRE Offline-install from oracle.

navigate to the JRE download in 7zFM and extract it. inside you'll find a 'core.zip' archive. extract that, that's the JRE.

Re:Eclipse

[spongman]

does the standalone linux archive contain windows executables?

Re:Eclipse

[drkstr1]

Hahaha. No. No it would not. Talk about a serious brain fart. :)

Professional development

[tepples]

Or you could learn to be more creative in justifying your learning to managers.

JavaScript

[Anonymous Coward]

Your browser already supports it. Just fire up Notepad or Wordpad as your "IDE".

Re:JavaScript

[codepunk]

Second that, if he is into front end layout and wants to make a leap to writing code it may as well be javascript.

Re:JavaScript

[wonkey_monkey]

Wordpad? I'll admit I haven't fired it up since I moved to 7, but really?

Programmer's Notepad has a portable version.

Re:JavaScript

[JonySuede]

could you please tell me where the language is fundamentally broken ? I know about the problem about the execution environment (I.E. the browser) and the bad code written into that language but flaw in the language itself, I know of only one : obtuse variables scope rules...

Re:JavaScript

[UnknownSoldier]

> could you please tell me where the language is fundamentally broken ?

I do WebGL development and for the most part enjoy the quick turn around time. (Thank god for "ShaderToy" www.iquilezles.org/apps/shadertoy/ )

While Javascript is a breath of fresh air from hard-core C/C++ work, Javascript is a piss poor programming language ...

0. typeof() is broken w.r.t. to arrays
var a = [];
console.log( typeof( a ) ); // does NOT return array, but object?!

1. Variables by default can be used anywhere without being declared. Have a typo? You will most likely never catch it unless
a) using an IDE
b) using the hack
      "use strict";
by placing that literal string hack near the top of your .js file

2. Stupid semicolon statement insertion.

3. ALL numbers are doubles. There are no native signed or unsigned or ints, nor floats. Doubles SUCK for performance especially when all you want & need is integer math.

4. No proper line concatenation
i.e. var a = "....\
foo\
bar\
"; //

Technically one shouldn't be able to escape the new line character, but it works ... for now.
  http://bclary.com/2004/11/07/#a-7.8.4
"A 'LineTerminator' character cannot appear in a string literal, even if preceded by a backslash \. The correct way to cause a line t
terminator character to be part of the string value of a string literal is to use an escape sequence such as \n or \u000A."

Haven't they learnt ANYTHING from C, Python, etc. ??

5. You have to very careful when doing (string) concatenation else you may not get what you expect.

6. No native way to include .js files inside another .js file and have a callback unless you write it yourself. i.e.
                var head = document.getElementsByTagName('head')[0];
                var script = document.createElement('script');
                script.type = 'text/javascript';
                script.src = url;
                script.onload = callback;
                head.appendChild( script );

7. The return statement is broken w.r.t whitespace. You can't have return on an empty line.
i.e var foo = (function( callback ) {
      return // doesn't work!
                1;
      }

8. All the debuggers suck ass. Good luck get it to show anonymous functions properly!

I could go one, but for a more complete list, see
http://oreilly.com/javascript/excerpts/javascript-good-parts/awful-parts.html

Re:JavaScript

[UnknownSoldier]

To clarify point 7.

function foo()
{
    return 2 // OK
}

function bar()
{
    return // FAIL - returns 'undefined' !?
        2
}

or if you prefer anonymous closures
var foo = (function() {
    return 1; // PASS
})();

var bar = (function() {
    return // FAIL - returns 'undefined'
      1;
})();

Re:JavaScript

[KXeron]

Ultimately it isn't possible to speak of the language without speaking of the execution evironment without becoming purely academic (little practical discussion and a lot of discussion about the form/syntax of the code). One cannot have a programming language without implementation.

Javascript is broken because it really has a lack of standardization. As it stands now it is just a loose agreement among browser vendors to design javascript engines to run like other vendors' browsers. There's often "special case" code you have to use if you want your code to run on a specific browser for instance.

Furthermore, Javascript security is a joke. Either you have to let it all in or reject it all, the finest grade control one has over javascript is being able to block it/allow it from specific domains. Since Javascript runs in the context of the browser, it's also impossible to utilize firewalls to block any javascript-initiated traffic without also taking the browser down. And given that a good chunk of the HTTP internet now relies on javascript, it's really no longer feasable to say "just use noscript or turn it off".

I could go into a full rant, but suffice to say, javascript was a noble idea when it was started, but now it has become a pool of bad ideas, a way too powerful language for what it is and poor implementation. The need to sandbox it is a sign of that.

Re:JavaScript

[tjmcgee]

+1 for JavaScript. You can absolutely learn the fundamentals of programming from it. Learn about variables, control structures, functions, arrays and simple objects. Learn how to interact with the DOM. Once you're comfortable with those then move on to a more sophisticated language and learn the principles of OOP. Javascript's prototype based inheritance is not the place to learn OOP.

Re:JavaScript

[Anonymous Coward]

Most of those are legacy, but you can live with that

1. "use strict;" is not a hack, but an official part of ECMA-262 v5 (and it should be mandatory for dev environment and should be mandatory OFF for release). And it can't be on by default for fear of breaking old and shitty code.
2. Only catches about ASI are "return\n2+2" (gonna be interpreted as "return; 2+2", see also your 7) and "var a = someFunction\n(expressioninparensonnextlineforsomereason())" (gonna be interpreted as function call, "someFunction(expressioninparensonnextlineforsomereason())")
3. Modern JS engines optimise the numerics well enough. You can also use typed arrays for performance - if you're writing performance sensitive JS code, you're probably doing it in an environment that supports them, anyways.
4. String continuation like that is in ECMA-262 v5 officially and in browsers long before that unofficially - at least IE6 already has them, and you won't probably deal with anything before.
5. As long as one side of + is string - you get string. What you really have to care about is _addition_, because you might accidentally get concatenation (can't count how many times I saw "123.5undefined" on shitty sites). They really should have chosen separate concatenation and addition, but in personal practice I've had almost no problems of this kind
6. This is consequence of trying to make JS too general - the spec and standard library basically has nothing related to execution environment. They should've included module system, but they've got _no_ I/O at all in the spec.
8. I don't think there are many languages where debugger just shows you the closure's variables. You have to step inside, and you'll see the closed variables in the scope, though.

All in all, JS sucks about just as much/as little as any other language out there.

Re:JavaScript

[JonySuede]

without becoming purely academic

I apologize, I have a tendency to go full academical when I talk about code (However I stay away from that kind of mental masturbation while I do code )

Re:JavaScript

[codepunk]

I never claimed it to be good, just suitable to his current interests.

Re:JavaScript

[aztracker1]

for that matter, you could use nodejs without installing to system space... also, you could ude c9.io (cloud 9) as an in-browser ide

Re:JavaScript

[Z00L00K]

JavaScript isn't the best language around but if you want to write something for web pages then you have to select between it and VBscript.

And considering how portable VBscript is the choice is easy.

Re:JavaScript

[91degrees]

True, but Javascript is actually a useful language to know for its own sake, so learning the ways it can bite you in the ass is also useful.

Not that python isn't also useful. Just that knowing how to hack Javascript could be as useful as knowing good programming principles, and Javascript is extremely easy to get started in, as well as something that might be considered work related.

Re:JavaScript

[Hognoxious]

could you please tell me where the language is fundamentally broken ? I know about the problem about the execution environment (I.E. the browser) and the bad code written into that language

Obligatory car analogy: Does it matter whether a restaurant orders crappy ingredients or the chef doesn't know how to cook?

You still don't want to eat there.

Re:JavaScript

[maxwell demon]

I just did a quick check and managed to get the errors "syntax error", "a is not defined" and "1 is not a function". None of which is "Not an object".

Re:JavaScript

[jez9999]

What do you mean by "Stupid semicolon statement insertion"?

Re:JavaScript

[datavirtue]

Jesus fuck! This conversation again!? It's like fucking deja vu.

Re:JavaScript

[UnknownSoldier]

Javascript will insert a semicolon after a return statement if you have a newline before your return argument.

See my reply where I clarified point 7.
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2934357&cid=40423915

i.e.
{
return
2;
}

Javascript will interpret this this as
{
return undefined;
2;
}

This bug can bite you in other ways. See my previous link to
http://oreilly.com/javascript/excerpts/javascript-good-parts/awful-parts.html
quoting...

Semicolon Insertion

JavaScript has a mechanism that tries to correct faulty programs by automatically inserting semicolons. Do not depend on this. It can mask more serious errors.

It sometimes inserts semicolons in places where they are not welcome. Consider the consequences of semicolon insertion on the return statement. If a return statement returns a value, that value expression must begin on the same line as the return:

return
{
        status: true
};

This appears to return an object containing a status member. Unfortunately, semicolon insertion turns it into a statement that returns undefined. There is no warning that semicolon insertion caused the misinterpretation of the program. The problem can be avoided if the { is placed at the end of the previous line and not at the beginning of the next line:

return {
        status: true
};

Any language that thinks it knows the intent of the programmer better then the programmer is just a hidden landmine waiting to go off.

Re:JavaScript

[UnknownSoldier]

> 1. "use strict;" is not a hack, but an official part of ECMA-262 v5 (and it should be mandatory for dev environment and should be mandatory OFF for release). And it can't be on by default for fear of breaking old and shitty code.

Putting a string in the global namespace because the language lacks pragmas is a hack.

> 3. Modern JS engines optimise the numerics well enough. You can also use typed arrays for performance - if you're writing performance sensitive JS code, you're probably doing it in an environment that supports them, anyways.
That's why I mentioned WebGL. I am quite familiar with Uin8Array, Float32Array, and all the other typed arrays etc. The problem is ... let's see who supports this / WebGL:
  [x] Firefox
  [x] Chrome
  [x] Safari
  [x] Webkit
  [-] Gee, Thanks Microsoft for supporting this only in IE10 which is only available on Windows 7.
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/br212916(v=vs.94).aspx

"Fuck You Microsoft" /with apologies to Linus.

Re:JavaScript

[Tablizer]

For some reason nearly all my JavaScript mistakes lead to "not an object" errors.

Re:JavaScript

[parkinglot777]

1. Variables by default can be used anywhere without being declared. Have a typo? You will most likely never catch it

That's the programmer responsibility. It is fundamental in programming that local variable (var keyword) should be used instead of "non-declare" or global. I am not talking about vulnerability of the language (hacking/overwriting functions/variables) but a simple rule.

function x() {
var a="abcd" // use the "var" keyword to declare that variable 'a' is alive in this scope
...
}

Also, naming a variable is the programmer responsibility. Even though the same variable name could be declared in the same scope, unlike other strong-type languages (such as Java, C, C++, etc), JavaScript allows type changed and that is what programmer is responsible for. A local variable name should not be reused in the same scope. If you are unsure about whether the variable is being used as global, you need to go back and study the functionality of what you are doing first. The reason is that you should already have a good knowledge of what all other related functions are doing before you make modification/addition to the page. Using 'undefined' value test should be the last thing to do if you have no choice to prevent your variable.

function x() {
if (a==="undefined") {
var a="abcd" // declare 'a' as a string
for (var a=0; a<3; a++) { ... } // do something with 'a'
// here 'a' is now equal to 3 instead of "abcd"
}
}

To me, the language contains multiple assumptions, so it is quite difficult for beginners to use it properly. That's why it is very easy to write buggy codes and is not easy for beginners to really understand and learn how to script the language. However, it is very beneficial to learn it. Furthermore, understand pure JavaScript would be even more valuable than use libraries (i.e. JQuery, rafael, etc) because you would also understand how it works internally.

Remote Desktop

[CyberBill]

Use a web-based (GoToMyPc.com?) or pre-installed remote administration app (Windows Remote Desktop? maybe VNC?) - or install RealVNC and use it's web app. Then control your home PC and run whatever IDE and language you prefer. I'd recommend Visual Studio Express and C# or C/C++, but that's just personal preference.

Re:Remote Desktop

[mwfischer]

and probably get fired

Re:Remote Desktop

[kiwimate]

If they are not allowed to install anything not on the list, remoting to a PC outside of the company firewall is probably a firing waiting to happen.

Re:Remote Desktop

[mike_toscano]

Some of you guys must work for some really fire-happy places. I'd be shocked if s/he were fired for anything like this. If anything, they might get a verbal warning telling them the behaviour is not kosher.

Regardless, this person is probably allowed to write code when they are not busy (some people are allowed to do things like that). If someone were to get fired for installing a program on their computer or connecting to another computer to write harmless code, they probably work for a crappy workplace or were on the edge of getting canned for other reasons already.

Mike

Re:Remote Desktop

[DigiShaman]

First of all, the RDP protocol is encrypted. So your safe there. Minus the fact there was a nasty exploit that got plugged (you are running updates on your home pc, right?), but I digress. Anyways, you can access the client from the Run/Search line under the Start Menu by typing MSTSC.

Above all, check with your internal corporate IT policy. If they don't mention anything about external systems access, well...

Re:Remote Desktop

[Billly Gates]

IT needs to set polices to keep their networks secure. A violation is a violation to be fair to everyone regardless of whether they are in IT themselves as a programmer.

Almost all places I have seen have such policies and that is just part of working. No, I have never been fired for violating such policy in case you are wondering as I have been accused of by elitists who only have worked in good places. But being 3 minutes late for work 3 times is the norm for blue collars. For a white collar position this seems fair in comparison. If the company is publically traded you can bet HR and legal will implement such polices as could be a sign of inside trading if not a way to insecure their networks. Most places still use IE6 & 7 and do not do updates because they break apps. In such an environment you need to shield it from the outside world

Re:Remote Desktop

[kiwimate]

Not fire-happy, security conscious / part of the national infrastructure. They take things seriously. Considering how much vitriol gets directed on Slashdot towards companies with SCADA systems when things like Stuxnet rear their ugly heads, I'd think people would rather approve of that kind of policy.

If you work at a place like this, you know the policies and you know the penalties. If you're at all IT savvy and/or security aware, you know why this is done.

Re:Remote Desktop

[LaissezFaire]

If he remotes out to code random stuff during work hours, using work resources, for not work activities, he's going to get fired.

There's almost always some manager around who's short of resources and needs to get some stuff done. Find him and offer up some time.

This is also why many employees wind up with tricked out spreadsheets and word macros. They aren't allowed to script in regular languages, can't run websites, can't run databases. So they make do.

Re:Remote Desktop

[datavirtue]

LMAO!!

Re:Remote Desktop

[bcoff12]

If they see an encrypted connection on 3389 they'll know what it is. If doing this and trying to hide it, run it on an alternate port and clear your mstsc.exe history (HKCU\Software\Microsoft\Terminal Server Client\Servers).

Your own laptop

[tomhath]

Buy a laptop and install LAMP

Re:Your own laptop

[pcgc1xn]

If bringing another laptop into work is not going to fly, install LAMP at home.
1/ Set up LAMP server at home, getting web access to the error logs would be really useful.
2/ Make sure your dynamic DNS is sorted so you can ftp/ssh into it from work
3/ Write your code in notepad
4/ Send to server
5/ Test in browser
6/ Google to figure out what your error messages mean
7/ Goto 3

It ain't pretty, but you install *nothing* on your work machine, and aren't using unusual/sketchy netowrk techniques which may draw attention to yourself. I am sure proper tools and IDEs would be nice, but you are going to spend most time on step 6, that is where the real learning is.

Use SSH to a remote system

[Anonymous Coward]

If you don't have a system of your own, such as a computer at home with an always-on connection, just get a free amazon web services instance and work there. Use Putty, or any of the other free portable SSH options to connect to it. If you get one with a X-windows system, you can even run graphical programs, such as the Eclipse IDE, on the remote system, and display them on your local desktop.

Re:Use SSH to a remote system

[Anonymous Coward]

I'll take it further. Most Windows computers have remote desktop client installed (mstsc.exe). Get an Amazon EC2 pico instance of Windows, RDC in and go nuts.

Here you go:

[Georules]

http://ideone.com/

Install to flash drive?

[gman003]

Back in school, I put my stuff on a small USB flash drive (at first a 256MB, later a 4GB - both cost about $20 when I got them). For me, it was CodeBlocks, because my personal coding project was in C++, but I imagine you can do the same with nearly any open-source IDE and compiler/interpreter.

Re:Install to flash drive?

[robthebloke]

..... because they definitely won't have a policy covering USB thumb drives.

Re:Install to flash drive?

[gman003]

They quite possibly *don't*.

Prohibiting people from installing software means they don't trust them to administer their own machines. Which I can actually understand in many situations - do you know how many relatives' computers I've had to fix because they installed some malware or crap?

Prohibiting people from using USB drives means they don't trust them with their own data - worried about data leaks. That's far less common (and far less excusable - unless he's working with *extremely* sensitive data, you need to just trust your employees to do their job right (and pay them enough that they want to)).

Re:Install to flash drive?

[MobileTatsu-NJG]

IT never does ban them, though, because sneakernets are too handy. Easier for IT really isn't a consideration. If it were they'd just unplug the internet line.

notepad + firefox/firebug...

[Anonymous Coward]

...should do the trick.

You can do wonders with html5/js

What about an online IDE?

[Shimdaddy]

I don't know how much debugging type stuff you want to do, but you might enjoy using a web-based IDE like IDE One. You can use any language you want, and if I were you, I'd type my code in a text editor that allows for syntax highlighting, like Notepad++, which can be run without an install.

Here

[ultranerdz]

http://c9.io/

Re:Here

[benjamin.mestrallet]

or Cloud IDE [cloud-ide.com] , especially if you use Java: Online Java Debug Video [vimeo.com]

Eclipse

[JBL2]

Eclipse (eclipse.org) is no-install, just drop it into a directory and run it. Java is a reasonably widespread run-time environment, though as a language, it may not fit the bill for "tinkering." Eclipse supports other languages, too. If you're looking for a lightweight web container, try Jetty. No installation required, and you can run your own J2EE application (again, if that's "tinkering"). But yes, on your own dime is probably good advice. Look for ways to improve your value to the company. Start with the traditional: learn to do your boss's job (with her/his knowledge, of course).

Web based or SSH ...

[MacTO]

If your company doesn't want you to install unauthorized software, they probably don't want you to run unauthorized software either. This is doubly true since you are going to want to run the software you developed. So I would suggest a web based alternative, or to SSH into a remote host (you can use a java based SSH client).

I would advise finding out which language you want to program first, then asking for the options available since there are a lot of options available.

If you're just interested in learning basic programming skills, JavaScript is also a good starting point and would probably work well with your existing development tools.

Re:Web based or SSH ...

[nurb432]

Should also be prohibited and blocked.

Re:Web based or SSH ...

[LaissezFaire]

If your company doesn't want you to install unauthorized software, they probably don't want you to run unauthorized software either.

Good call. In companies where you can only run approved software, you frequently can't program in those environments, either. You've now written code that's unapproved.

I'd be careful about ssh'ing out or using other outside environments on the company time, though. If they're paying you to be in your chair, they aren't going to like you writing code for people who aren't them at the same time. Get some buy in from your boss on what you want to do.

Re:Web based or SSH ...

[X0563511]

If they are paranoid enough to have a "no unapproved software" policy, they sure as fuck are going to notice an outbound encrypted connection. Especially one that allows bidirectional tunneling or file transfer.

If such a company doesn't have an IDS that immediately sounds the alarm, then the policies are merely there because someone's butt-covering or they are simply there to help HR fire people they want gone for arbitrary reasons.

Bring a notebook or netbook.

[couchslug]

Problem solved.

Re:Bring a notebook or netbook.

[nurb432]

Only if they allow personal devices in the building. Some don't. But yes, if they do allow it, its the correct solution. ( and keep it off their network, do NOT plug it in .. )

Id also get permission first, in writing, so it doesn't come back and bite him in the ass later. "doing personal work on company time" can be considered ghost employment. Learning a non-job related skill could fall under that rule.

There's always the tiny C compiler

[Dwedit]

There's always the Tiny C Compiler, a 280K zip file containing a C compiler, and all the headers for the standard library and Windows API. No installation needed for that.

General Interface is what you're looking for

[Qbertino]

General Interface is an industry grade Ajax toolkit designed to be a replacement/alternative in Java or Flex Client situations. It comes with an IDE built with its own components - think Ajax equivalent of Eclipse - which is basically a zipped HTML page with some subdirectories and stuff abused to be a full blow coding enviroment. It runs in FF or IE, loads tons of XML, JSON, JS and CSS stuff out of the subdirectories and behaves just like you'd expect an IDE to behave.

If you want to see what's possible with JS/Ajax if you go to the extreme, this is your ticket. One stop zero fuss coding fun without even running an additional binary aside from FF.

Enjoy.

My 2 cents.

Re:General Interface is what you're looking for

[Jane Q. Public]

OP has admitted to not being a programmer.

I think you just jargoned him into an afternoon nap.

Re:General Interface is what you're looking for

[adumonit]

lolest!!

Re:General Interface is what you're looking for

[Jane Q. Public]

In all seriousness, though, General Interface looks pretty impressive. I don't know if I'd recommend something like that for someone who is learning programming. But I am sure as heck tempted to go play with it now.

Thanks for the tip.

Most languages don't require installation

[Kahenraz]

It would help to know what type of operating system you're using (Windows/OSX/Linux). If you're asking this question at all then I'll assume you're using Windows; otherwise a 'C' compiler would most likely already be available to you to tinker with.

Download Cygwin and the package for your desired language and put it on a pen drive. From there you can program in pretty much anything. This includes C, C++, ObjC, PHP, Python, Perl, Ada, Fortran, D, Java.. you'll also have access to great tools in addition to your language of choice such as Git, SVN, Make, Bash.. etc. etc.

For actually writing code there is nano, mined, emacs, vi.. But if you want something a little more friendly you can opt for putting Notepad++ or Programmer's Notepad on your portable drive as well. Other uses have mentioned a portable version of Eclipse but I can't recommend jumping into an IDE if you've never used one before. Try learning with a book and a text editor first.

In my opinion, the portable Linux-like Cygwin environment is always the best choice for software development on Windows.

Re:Most languages don't require installation

[Jane Q. Public]

Anybody who tries to edit code in nano is pretty much by definition a masochist. And emacs is not something I would even begin to suggest for a newby programmer.

I suggest Sublime Text, which has a terrible name but excellent functionality, and is available for Linux, OS X, and Windows. No need for a limited, monochrome text-based editor when you can easily have it all.

Re:Most languages don't require installation

[countach74]

Or if one can only use a console: VIM is fantastic, especially when syntax highlighting is turned on. :)
But... it does have a learning curve.

Your own hardware, and check ahead of time

[Qubit]

Seriously.

A number of us have flexibility in this arena because we've been working for the same employer for a while, or we're in charge of a department, or because we're consultants/independent contractors. I'd often play video games at work after the end of the work day, and that was fine with everyone because the work got done.

Unfortunately a number of employers are implementing increasingly draconian policies regarding software and hardware use, and rules about what is/isn't appropriate policy, even after work has let out for the day, or even if your fun side programming projects could make you a more skilled and more productive employee. Some of these policies and rules even govern the work that you do when you aren't at work, even if you do it on your own hardware.

One option would be to boot your system off a usb key/external drive. This would allow you to run Ubuntu 12.04 (or something) and hack around using Python, Ruby, Java, Processing, or pretty much anything else you can dream of. This is a really cheap solution (A 16GB usb key is about $10 online). The problem with this approach is that you're still using your work hardware, and it's harder for you to switch between your company's OS/software and your own. Also, if your company has a problem with you installing software, they might get all upset about you booting from external media, too.

If you can pick up an old laptop for cheap (maybe ask friends if they have an old one they aren't using?) then you can throw something like lubuntu or just stock debian on there, and then you'll have a great little dev machine that you can use to program up a storm. You don't need a big hard drive, and if you're using it plugged-in, the battery doesn't even need to work.

If you start to work on a project that you actually want to release, ask your boss if it's okay for you to hack on things at the office. Even if it's just a small side project released under a FOSS license, you're technically on the clock and so it's best to get an okay ahead of time.

Good luck!

Re:Your own hardware, and check ahead of time

[julesh]

One option would be to boot your system off a usb key/external drive

This is very unlikely to be acceptable to the employer. If they require OP to be present and are therefore paying him, it seems quite likely they might need him at short notice (consider, for example, a call center environment with sharp peaks in demand). Rebooting his machine is likely to take too long to be an acceptable delay.

Re:Your own hardware, and check ahead of time

[Qubit]

One option would be to boot your system off a usb key/external drive

This is very unlikely to be acceptable to the employer. If they require OP to be present and are therefore paying him, it seems quite likely they might need him at short notice (consider, for example, a call center environment with sharp peaks in demand). Rebooting his machine is likely to take too long to be an acceptable delay.

Sure. That's why I listed that as one of the downsides in the same paragraph...

"One option would be to boot your system off a usb key/external drive...The problem with this approach is that you're still using your work hardware, and it's harder for you to switch between your company's OS/software and your own."

VirtualBox

[cablepokerface]

Grab a large usb disk and the portable version of VirtualBox. Put your favorite snapshot on the usb drive and bam, your favorite environment with all of the software you want always with you.

Re:It's not scripting.

[Johann Lau]

http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2497146/is-css-turing-complete

and then there is javascript.

Bring in your own laptop and get permission first

[vux984]

If you are not allowed to install anything not on the list, working around the rule using "portable applications" is rarely acceptable either.

What? Do you think the rule against "installing" things was because someone doesn't like the add/remove programs window getting cluttered up? Do you really think they'd be a-ok with you downloading a ton of crap and running it just because it doesn't require an "installation"?

As far as most normal IT people are concerned the fact that you didn't use an "installer" to get your non-approved crap on the PC is generally completely irrelevant.

ideone

[quetzyg]

You could give http://ideone.com/ a try.

Here is a brief explanation:
What is ideone?
Ideone is something more than a pastebin; it's an online compiler and debugging tool which allows to compile and run code online in more than 40 programming languages.

Re:ideone

[julesh]

I have to say that I'm:

1. Impressed that they have a forth compiler, and
2. Impressed that I remember enough forth to get something to compile and run at first attempt

(for reference:

: bollocks dup * ;
2 bollocks .

which evaluates to 4)

Use online IDE

[Slackus]

I would go for one of the online PaaS IDE such as:

• Cloud9 IDE"
• Compilr.com"
• Cloud IDE"

Re:Don't listen to the amateurs.

[Jane Q. Public]

I should add that you can install the Ruby interpreter into a flash drive, or perhaps better for your purposes, use Jruby which runs on the Java Virtual Machine that is already pre-installed on most computers today.

I use

[TheRealMindChild]

I personally have Thinstall/Thinapp installs of Visual Studio 6, up to 2005, as well as a slew of Borland originating products. It was really no hassle and it just seems to work.

Re:I use

[JonySuede]

I second that, even tough I am a now corporate java guy, I the most productive IDE I ever used was the last version of Borland Visual C++ builder. You could do RAD prototyping, and then an build industrial scale DB-driven web app version of the prototype in the same IDE, it had the easiness of VB with the power of C++.

PythonAnywhere

[jashsu]

Because you explicitly asked for both a recommendation on an install-free solution as well as a language. https://www.pythonanywhere.com/

Re:PythonAnywhere

[Jane_Dozey]

+1 for pythonanywhere.com . Not only a good solution but some great folks run the site.

Re:PythonAnywhere

[rcs1000]

Also +1 for PythonAnywhere.

Do what you are being paid

[Billly Gates]

Your employer is not paying you to better yourself on their dime. Stop stealing his time and money and do proactive maintance on existing projects and code when the load is light.

I see far too many times where the bean counters cut employee headcount so much that people just put out one fire after another and it only stays together if no one is ever sick or goes on vacation.

You are a professional and now is the time to do things like QA, refactoring badly coded projects, and other things when the load is light so hell wont break loose when you get busy and your time is just putting out fires. Do your job right and you will be getting shit done instead of putting out fires.

You can better yourself at home on your own equipment as it is unethical to do anything but work your ass off when you are being paid. Also what if you write a cool killer app or FOSS project? Guess who owns it? IT wont be you on company equipment and time.

Re:Do what you are being paid

[JonySuede]

You can better yourself at home on your own equipment as it is unethical to do anything but work your ass off when you are being paid. Also what if you write a cool killer app or FOSS project? Guess who owns it? IT wont be you on company equipment and time.

You are either a shitty employer or a moron with a misguided sense of loyalty. My employer who I respect, agreed to sent me to listen to a tangentially related presentation (it was a CS MSc presentation in a department on our main campus) for 2 hours when my salary is just under 40$/hr, it won't bring them anything else than maintaining my analytic skills sharp and more importantly my gratitude.

Also, I would like to have you remark that no other profession, are required to train on their own, layers are mandated by there board to received paid training by their cabinet, so are doctors, so are architects and so are accountant. Do you want to be considered like a professional or a code monkey ? If you want to be treated like a pro ask for what the other notable professions received not for what is standard for a low level clerk...

 

Re:Do what you are being paid

[Billly Gates]

I wish you were right.

THe motivational speakers I read like Larry Winget say otherwise. You are there to work the absolute hardest possible to the point of exhaustion. Blue collar jobs I had did just this and you were fired and replaced as someone else would be happy to do it a dollar or two an hour above minimum wage. That is the real world 70% of the world that is not privileged lives in. Hell, I have had several jobs where you were fired if you were more than 3 minutes late to work 3 times.

Every profession the worker pays for the privilege not to be minimum wage which is why they are willing to go in debt to get their degrees. It is up to the employee to be prepared and not the employer. THe employer just serves the customers and customers are not paying you to learn they are paying to get something done. Doctors pay $300,000 in debt to work, accountants pay $60,000 for the CPA and the masters degree, and $90,000 to be a teacher with college costs these days. The employer always pays jack shit as it is not their problem.

I am just the messenger and I would feel guilty and paranoid doing such things on the job as it is not customer driven and I need to be providing the maximum value in order to keep my job. Maybe I am scarred from my past here but, my ethic I learned in that as well as my undergrad in Business Admin teaches these concepts. Bosses demand it and if I were a boss I would demand it too. Work supposed to be miserable so you do not starve and you are there to make someone else money.

Your employer did that presentation probably because he would get a return. Not because he is a nice guy (he might actually be). The point is unless it is work related you need to be responsible. Especially if millions of out of work people would be happy to do your job. There are many who have holes on their resumes but can't get past HR for that reason. When things get less hectic it is always important to do the boring things like maintaince, QA, and patching. IT is the right thing to do.

Re:Do what you are being paid

[JonySuede]

yeah, I understand the rarity of my dream position (I solve complex problems, spec the boring part and mentor developers), as I love my job I will put overtime if it is needed. However I have the luxury to refuse to have a cellphone. If you read my profile, I work in a business were we sell high-priced, hard to acquire, diplomas, therefore my employer require those diplomas and pays accordingly...

About the profession you noted, I did not talk about the diploma acquisition cost, that is another related but different debate. I talked about the cost of skills maintenance. In many provinces in my country, that kind of continuous formation is mandated by the different professionals associations.

Re:Do what you are being paid

[Billly Gates]

Lucky you.

I want to better myself but not have to pay $1000 a month in student loans afterwards and work at McDonalds at night to pay for that luxury.

I am stuck. But regardless if money is a scarce resource like it is for most employers you simply need to push for maximum efficiency to raise the share price quarter after quarter which is the goal of any company leader. There just is not time for self development in that environment.

Re:Do what you are being paid

[JonySuede]

Sorry for being rude, you are clearly not an idiot.. I would like to know why did you passionately defend a system that screw you ?
I know about my privileged situation and I am saddened by it's rarity, no study debt btw as I was on excellence grants...

Re:Do what you are being paid

[martin-boundary]

Dude, your work ethic is fucked up (pardon my french).

You've been brainwashed into a completely ridiculous and ultimately self defeating conception of employment, which treats workers as slaves and companies as slave owners.

Here's how the economy really works. You, whether an employee or a manager, are a person offering a service, namely your ability to do work. Companies are *your* customers, and you have the right (and the obligation) to negotiate with your customers a mutually agreeable deal, that can include whatever the hell you both like. It's that simple.

If you want to include a clause that says every friday you get the day off, that's fine. If you want to allow the company to fire you for being 3 minutes late, that's fine too. But realize that people who *don't* let their customer/company walk all over them are pitying you.

In the end, your only task is to negotiate a good deal for yourself. And when circumstances change, it's up to you to renegotiate. Sadly, 99% of people are too lazy or scared to stand up for themselves, and will sign anything without reading it. That's just a fact. But if you think you have to be like them, or even that being like them is desirable or optimal for the proper functioning of the economy, then your business administration course was wasted on you, and I'm being kind.

The world doesn't owe you a living, but you're always free to organize all parts of your life as you see fit. Use that freedom, and deal with your customer(s) as you think best.

Re:Do what you are being paid

[Hognoxious]

Actually he's an arrogant psychopath with the reading comprehension skills of a drunken gastropod.

See, the original asker says he isn't a programmer, so why Billy thinks he should go and do "proactive maintenance on existing code" is beyond me. The last thing the guys in that team need is someone, albeit well-meaning, trying to help.

Re:Try honesty?

[MobileTatsu-NJG]

Lulls happen at work places and, instead of wasting time, he's developing skills he can use at said workplace. I don't think it's necessarily a scam. A similar story happened to me and I ended up saving money for the company by automating tedious tasks.

Re:I disagree

[Billly Gates]

I am not saying it is a great language.

But it does what it does fairly well for 1/10th the cost and time compared to Enterprise Application Server oriented platforms like Java EE and .NET. Most website development is fine with php just like you can make fairly medium complex projects with VB 6. Sure it can't scale to millions of lines of code but such a daunting project will not be done in a short summer anyway in some spare time.

Facebook uses php as do many websites and most of the jobs require it unless it is a corporate complex app which uses .NET and Java EE. Php has frameworks like Cake to hide much of the bad stuff where you can easily make small to medium sites that make up 90% of the market.

Ruby is not popular outside of rails and people love the templates and modify them for websites but then freeze when making their own solution. Python I never see jobs posted for and you will niche yourself out of the job market unless you are senior level. Python is interpreted as well while PHP runs inside the web server engine that is natively compiled.

Another great strength with PHP is you can download WAMP or a XAMMP stack on a flash drive which includes MySQL, php, and Apache on Windows which is what this person is looking for.

If you like scripting then

[ninjacheeseburger]

Javascript links in quite nicely and it runs in browser so no IDE needed. I know Internet Explorer and Chrome have a debugger built in so you should be able to get something together pretty quick.

TCC

[mobby_6kl]

TinyCC doesn't require anything else to run, is small, fast, and has enough functionality for hobby-level stuff. For an IDE, just use notepad or something.

However, if you get fired for this, it's going to be your own fault for knowingly violating the rules. Brining your own laptop might not be acceptable either, depending on the environment, but that would be the best possibility so it's definitely worth checking out. Another possibility is to use remote desktop or ssh or something to connect to your home box running whatever IDE you'll want, but again, check with your managers. If they don't allow it, just read a book about programming instead.

Install/noninstall

[stevegee58]

The distinction is legalistic-sounding to me. If your company policy is to not install unapproved software on your computer the fact it doesn't use an installer doesn't matter. You're still "installing" an unapproved executable on your computer. Even if it's a java .jar file.

Re:Install/noninstall

[gl4ss]

yeah, he should just stick to remote using some other computer without installing anything on his.

Re:I disagree

[Jane Q. Public]

"But it does what it does fairly well for 1/10th the cost and time compared to Enterprise Application Server oriented platforms like Java EE and .NET. "

So does everything else.

Re:Don't listen to the amateurs.

[Jane Q. Public]

Hey, modders: If you want to really do your jobs, you're supposed to remember that "disagree" != "troll".

Notepad++, Don't want to use installer?

[Max_W]

http://notepad-plus-plus.org/download/v6.1.3.html

Notepad++ v6.1.3 7z package : Don't want to use installer? 7z format.

You can run "Notepad++" from a USB stick.

Re:Notepad++, Don't want to use installer?

[stevegee58]

If OP's company doesn't allow unapproved programs on their computers, they definitely won't allow USB sticks.

Re:Notepad++, Don't want to use installer?

[Max_W]

How they won't allow? Sealing USB sockets with a glue?

Re:Notepad++, Don't want to use installer?

[stevegee58]

At my work the PCs are locked down in Windows to prevent them from working. Also, they're explicitly forbidden in the IT policy. Use them and get fired.

Re:Notepad++, Don't want to use installer?

[Max_W]

Wow. What will they do when the power of a smartphone processor will be as of a PC and there will be flexible displays, like handkerchiefs? Body-search on entrance?

Re:Notepad++, Don't want to use installer?

[stevegee58]

Well we're still allowed to bring in smart phones and personal notebook PCs. We just can't connect them to the network.

Re:Notepad++, Don't want to use installer?

[Undead Waffle]

I don't see how that would be a problem. The issue with thumb drives is to avoid viruses that exploit autorun. Windows allows you to disable USB mass storage devices. Smart phones are not an issue unless you try to connect them to your computer, which wouldn't work because they would likely be recognized as mass storage devices and prevented from being mounted.

Re:Notepad++, Don't want to use installer?

[lynnae]

There's a big difference between the common practice of "you no install" and running usb security software.

The only place I've worked that locked out any writable device was a place where PID was handled. No one would go through that kind of hassle without needing to.

luckily, we could still charge off the USB ports ;)

I hesitate to say, but have you considered Access?

[robgberg]

I'm sure this idea will be soundly "ripped", but you probably have Microsoft Access installed. I have long "eschewed" Access myself for personal reasons, having bought the bloated version 1.0 of the product. However, I know that thousands of people have created really useful programs in Access, so much so that they are later ported to Enterprise environments like J2EE with Oracle backends to replace the Access database. In the kind of constrained environment you're in, you could do worse than get started in the Access environment.

JScript

[jzu]

No IDE here, but if all what you want is discover new territories, you'll just need an editor. Apart from PowerShell, there is another decent scripting language on Windows, which is JScript. That's a Javascript implementation allowing to access system resources through "ActiveXObjects". Example:

var fso = new ActiveXObject ("Scripting.FileSystemObject");

Have a look at MSDN for reference about this object and others, then browse it, and various blogs, while happily writing your scripts in whatever editor is present on your machine. By the way, they will run on any Windows system, even XP. The drawback is that interfacing to DLLs is often impossible when it hasn't been provided by MS.

Then, you might want to explore Javascript as a functional language - a usable Lisp in my opinion...

Re:Don't listen to the amateurs.

[Jane Q. Public]

"if going down the Ruby route, then the online runner may be of help: http://tryruby.org/levels/1/challenges/0"

Why in the world was this modded down?

C# and a console

[luckymutt]

I found myself in a similar situation at a previous job where I was bored out of my skull due to a lack of work at the company during the down economy.
So I decided to teach myself some more programming skills.
Unfortunately, I was in the same position where I couldn't install anything.

Find csc.exe on your machine. All Windows machines have this. Buried down in here: C:\Windows\Microsoft.NET
Put it in your path.
Now you can write all the C# applications you want in Notepad. If you can get Notepad++ then it would make it a lot easier as it has code-coloring/indentation. I was able to install it by bringing the installer in on a flash drive. Being just an advanced notepad, I didn't worry about what would happen if someone noticed the install.
You can compile it via the command line with >csc.exe
You'll then have a nice little executable of whatever you made. And you may be surprised how complex of an application you can make this way...maybe you wouldn't. This approach sure helped fill my days for a while there.

Live CD?

[staticjak]

Why don't you use a live cd? It wouldn't install anything on your computer and you could just use whatever tools are provided in the live cd.

Powershell

[crevistontj]

Most bigger companies have Powershell on client systems to help manage them. There's a lot of tinkering to be done there.

Advice and options

[SixArmedJesus]

I am in a similar situation to you. I also work in a company (distribution and corporate side of after sales parts for an auto manufacturer) that does not allow installation of non-approved software, and while I agree with some of the other posters regarding getting into possible firing territory by going against company policy, sometimes the experience can still be useful to help you move up or around in your company. Try to associate your tinkering with something already related to your job, or to help others in your department. Depending on the size of your company, strictness of management and company policy, you may wind up using a hobby to make lives easier for you and those around you. Or you may get canned. You don't say what kind of work you normally do or what sector of industry you work in, but you have several options. Here are some of the options I have looked at and used.

Personally, my first choice would be to find something that is already available to you without the need to install new software and work within that area. For example, you probably hve a web browswer available on uour work computer, and you already work with HTML and CSS, so you could move on to JavaScript. You can make little standalone projects using just these that are available to run unchanged on just about any computer. There are, of course, limits to this, such as local file access and things, but projects like TiddlyWiki may have some pointers. Another option within this realm is taking a look at the office suite available to you. For example, if you have MS Access or Excel on hand, you can make lots of things by getting into VBA scripting. (I recommend Access only because it lends itself better to application development. If you know enough VBA, you can just about make any Office app do what you want, but it's harder to do data manipulation in Word for example).

Another option, of you feel braver is to go the PortableApp route, like you mentioned. You can find portable versions of some scripting languages, such a s Python, which are workable. The downside is that if you decide you need a specific library that doesn't respect being shoehorned into being "portable" (in the sense of being able to run it from an external flash drive or hard drive without leaving traces on the host computer) it could lead to possible discovery by your IT group, depending on how invasive they are in their tracking.

Along in this portable app group, one item I might suggest trying is a scripting language called Rebol. (rebol.com). It's multiplatform interpreter and GUI library in a single file that has some interesting features. Depending on how you run it, it may put a couple of folders in the folder it exists in, but other than that, I think it's pretty "quiet".

Outside of that, some of the posters above have some neat ideas about either remote access to your home computer or utilizing online programming environments. I may even look into these for myself, as the may be feasible depending on what is currently not off limits thought the proxy at work.

By going with the "using what's already available to you" route, whether it's a web browser or an office suite, you may be better suited to present some of your projects and ideas to coworkers and management, since by using those, you technically may not be violating your company's do-not-install rule. It doesn't mean it's bulletproof as they could view creation of new scripts and projects as a violation of the rule, depending on how strict they are. You're the one that has to use your judgement and figure out what you think they will or will not allow, and whether or not it puts you in danger of getting fired.

Javascript

[Coppit]

Javascript would be an obvious choice. It's a sucky language, but would dovetail nicely with what you already know. Then you could switch to PHP on the server side, then Python or Ruby.

Prediction:

[Alex Belits]

Once this will be found out, using "portable applications" (running un-approved executables on company hardware) will be considered "installation", and you will be fired.

Re:SLAMPP

[Hognoxious]

I thought about live CDs. But then he said his workload was light, not zero, so he'd probably spend more time rebooting than doing his regular job and programming put together.

How about getting some virtualisation software onto the approved list? Then he can bugger about all he likes without doing too much damage.

Javascript?

[John Utah]

So if you already know HTML/CSS, why not learn Javascript? Use a web IDE if you can't install anything locally. http://c9.io/

Why not Sublime Text?

[Mark Rawls]

Sublime Text is an excellent programmer's text editor that I use daily. It has support for tons of languages (and variants on those), automatic indentation, bracket completion, quote completion, a "memory" feature (knows variables you've typed), extensions support, and even compiling features. It has a full portable version, with nothing cut out. I'd highly recommend it, as the trial is unlimited (and the license is cheap for a tool this high quality - only $60).

Re:Don't listen to the amateurs.

[Johann Lau]

So you complain about PHP when nobody even mentioned it (much)?

You may have noticed * there are lot of people coding shit apps in fancy languages who are bitter nobody cares about their shit apps. And they moan and moan and moan about PHP because people who *aren't* idiots get cool stuff done in that language as well as in any other. A good warning sign is bashing PHP when nobody is even praising it.

* of course, if you're one of them, you may have NOT noticed it, and will forever remain confused. Good.

I don't even consider PHP a "language". It has no internal consistency, and ultimately no future.

I wouldn't even consider that a "post". It has no arguments, and ultimately no content. See how that works? It's real hard to reply, as there isn't anything to reply to.

I would suggest Python, or even better in my opinion, Ruby.

That's great for you. Meanwhile, I would suggest [random thing]. And you have to do it because I said so. Isn't it great we discussed this?

Javascript and Google Script (Spreadsheet)

[thebrieze]

Easiest way to get started is to build web apps in Javascript built on Google spreadsheets (Google Script). All you need is a web browser, and access to Google Drive.
Go to Google Drive, create a spreadsheet. In your spreadsheet, go to Tools/Script Editor. This will open a web based editor in your browser, and you can start programming. Click on Publish/Deploy as a web app, and now you're set. Build anything from simple functions used within your spreadsheet to full fledged web apps with a user interface. Easy as pie.

The pretty good book on Google Script will get you started in no time.

Re:Don't listen to the amateurs.

[Jane Q. Public]

"So you complain about PHP when nobody even mentioned it (much)?"

I was not criticizing, I was telling the best and honest truth, as best I know it. And I have been there, so I do know something about it.

Don't like my advice? Fine. You are entitled to your own opinion. But just remember that I am, too.

Beagleboard and Node.js

[aaarrrgggh]

While other browser-based options have been highlighted, I'll throw my thought in for a Beagleboard and using the built-in node.js environment. If the network is locked down, you would have to do more work-- thinking a transparent firewall if you have no control of the PC as a worst-case. A USB Ethernet adapter might work as well.

I guess you could use a headless Raspberry PI via local ssh instead if you wanted to go for the full LAMP approach, in much the same fashion.

But, if I saw you plugging strange boxes into the network I might be inclined to fire you. You are best off asking permission first... Maybe prefaced with a statement like "I'm a little slow right now, is there anything I can do to help?"

here's something for the haters

[Johann Lau]

https://love2d.org/

You don't *have* to install it, I'm pretty sure you can get that running off a usb stick, it's just a LUA interpreter with a bunch of utility functions... but if you want to get stuff moving on the screen, it doesn't get much painless than this. Of course, LUA isn't super usable for a whole lot of things (not compared to javascript), but seriously... all programming at the core is the same fucking thing. It's just pushing around values in variables plus arithmetic operations and control logic, with various levels of syntactic sugar. Might as well start with something that's fun and then move on when you start feeling the limitations.

It might not seem "serious" enough for the workplace. But in the case your boss isn't a stuck up nolifer, you might still be okay ^_^

noodle around with programming

[Anonymous Coward]

Hi...you could try sites that offer all programming right in the browser. Sites like glowscript.org, codebymath.com, or jsfiddle.net (for the css/html/js). Give these a try?

Re:Don't listen to the amateurs.

[Johann Lau]

But come on: if you have never programmed, *any* language will teach you the same thing? I mean variables, control logic, that sort of stuff. The submitter isn't planning to do a million LOC app for a first project, and already knows CSS and HTML... so now that you mentioned it, PHP is actually a great first addition to that :D You can throw stuff on webpage quickly without jumping through a billion hoops first, so you quickly get to the part that initially matters -- variables, control logic, etc. -- while it's still more interesting than mere console output. Though surely there are ways to do that in the browser with Javascript, so even PHP might be overkill... -- it kinda tickled me to write that.

Re:Don't listen to the amateurs.

[blackraven14250]

It wasn't, cowards start at 0 instead of the standard 1.

Re:Try honesty?

[Billly Gates]

He is not automating such tasks but is learning while taking money from his employer and shareholders to do it. Unless he wants to expand his role to do things like help out debugging the website I see this as theft and dishonest like the original grandposter. True he put in a way to make him flamebait but I am shocked I am the only one mentioning the ethical issues involved besides that AC.

It would be paradise if it were like college and we could sit around and learn and do neat things that occasionally help out the big boss. But that is not the real world. The real world where people get fired for being 3 minutes late for work 3 times if you only have a HS diploma. THe real world where if the place doesn't fall apart if you go on vacation then you are truly not needed and provide no shareholder value etc.

Not all places are that bad to work at but I would discipline such an employee if I caught him doing this and coding, breaking policy, and doing non job related things on my watch. It is not that I am a dick, but it is just business and what a competent manager would do. If he wants to automate something like what you did I would say knock yourself off if it wont be too much of a hassle.

If you are a developer or do IT support there are always things to do. The good workers fix the infrastructure, call customers up, do QA, and refactor when times are light. THat way when things get hectic the chance of shit hitting the fan lessons. I am just the messenger here and stating the goals of business. That is life.

Idiot.

[westlake]

Simple solution, point out that this includes ownership of any malware I might write.

Security will have you on the sidewalk in five minutes.

Try arguing in court that ownership of the malware you produced has passed to your employer will end in a judge handing you your head back on a plate.

Re:Idiot.

[History's Coming To]

Really? What actually happened was that the manager agreed with me, contacted the legal department, and they agreed that it was badly thought out. The company reworded the contract to prevent IP theft (the original intention) whilst freeing up the employees from a slightly silly clause anyway. It's very funny to hear everybody lambasting the company, I actually really enjoyed working for them and found them to be an encouraging, friendly and creative employer. Yeah, there was a daft clause in the contract, so I got something done about it by pointing out the ridiculous to them, it's a more effective solution than bitching on about the rights I have because I'm so special.

Re:Don't listen to the amateurs.

[Jane Q. Public]

"But come on: if you have never programmed, *any* language will teach you the same thing?"

Not with the same degree of ease or utility.

PHP has virtually no internal consistency. It is a hodgepodge of utility functions, many of which do almost the same things, but take different parameters, in different order even. It was (is) a project in which contributions were just taken willy-nilly, and incorporated into the product, seemingly without regard to any sort of organization.

And object-orientation? A weird kind of object-orientation was sort of tacked on, in... what was it... version 5? While other languages have had that as a fundamental infrastructure from the beginning. Ruby, for example (I'm not certain about Python) is object-oriented from the ground up. The language is mostly written in itself. (The standard library does contain some C for performance.)

While many languages are "Turing complete" -- that is to say, given enough diligence they can theoretically accomplish anything that any other language can -- that does not mean that they are "equal" when it comes to everyday power or ease of use. Some are vastly more consistent and intuitive.

Here is an excellent example of what many programmers think of PHP. I did not make this stuff up.

No, for educational purposes, PHP is about the worst thing I could think of. I would advise someone to start out on C itself -- horrors! You can see how much I feel this -- before I would suggest PHP.

Re:Don't listen to the amateurs.

[lynnae]

but, don't ya know, all "real" programmers must know and profess their undying love of C.

/cough
//don't care much for PhP, simply because of how easy it is to have a badly secured website and how low the pay for a PhP developer is

XAMPP

[trinaryai]

While it may be modded too low to appear, I haven't seen any comments about XAMPP. I've used it to teach a class on MySQL/PHP for several years, but it's just as good for simple HTML/CSS/Javascript. You can get it at http://www.apachefriends.org/en/xampp.html, and simply unzip it to the directory of your choice. The tone of the OP sounded like the company didn't mind programming being done during slow periods, but rather that they didn't want to violate their security policy by allowing someone to install software as local admin. Makes perfect sense to me. Many companies forbid bringing in personal computing equipment for similar reasons.

Re:Learn it on your own time

[lynnae]

that is one weird comparison.

wondering if they meant vbscript?

Re:Bring in your own laptop and get permission fir

[PNutts]

That makes a lot of sense. Rare for this thread.

OP: Have you looked at the approved software list and see if there's anything on there that interests you? Or is it easy to get software on the list?

Re:I hesitate to say, but have you considered Acce

[Undead Waffle]

I don't believe Access comes with a standard Office installation. And while it does have VBA built in which would allow you to write software to interact with the database, VBA is a horrible horrible language. In fact if you're really that masochistic why don't you go all out and write a VBA application in an Excel spreadsheet to interact with your Access database. You'll know you're doing it right if you feel really dirty the whole time you're writing it.

Bring your own dev box in.

[Peganthyrus]

Can you bring your own stuff into the workplace?

Maybe you could bring a Raspberry Pi and ssh into it to hack around, or jack a spare monitor/keyboard into it.
Maybe an iPad with Codea installed.

Also honestly I'd consider talking to the boss and getting permission to fuck around with this openly instead of doing it on the sly.

Eclipse, BlueJ, Text Editors, etc PortableApps.com

[CritterNYC]

If you'd like to go all out, you can try something like Eclipse Portable which is available in the C/C++, Java, etc variants. It's technically labeled as a Development Test but it's 'stable' and being added to the main app directory shortly. There's also a test of BlueJ Portable available which is geared towards learning. If you'd like to just try something smaller, you can always start with something like SWI-Prolog Portable. There are a number of text editors available in the Development section of the Portable App Directory a few of which can kick off compilation right in MinGW Portable for you. And, if you're so inclined, you can help out test and code some of the apps requested or tested out in the Development forums or section of the PortableApps.com site. If there's anything else that would help out budding programmers, please just let us know!

No software but Windows? Make Pacman & Tetris

[VortexCortex]

Once upon a cubicle, our office was relocated. Just after the move, IT hadn't installed anything on our computers, and thus Internet access was down too. A coworker mentioned that one, "couldn't, do anything with just a fresh install of Windows!". It would be 4 days before the understaffed IT could get to our systems. In the meantime I made a Snackman game to prove a point, but also to kill time. I added the music and sound effects later, of course.

I haven't finished my the public facing blog yet, but you can also play a Tetris game I made using only the URL bar on my website.
What a nerd will do to win a bet... Yeah, I've posted it a few times before, now you can edit it and see the changes though.

So, I've been down this road. It's doable, but WTF man, don't you have a smartphone? Just use it. That, or fucking quit, that place sounds awful.

P.S. That little paragraph about any creations belonging to the company? I just quietly draw a line through it and initial it. If they ask questions I say: "That's my only hobby. Would you give up TV, Videogames, Movies, Golf, etc. for your job? If you want me to do so, then I'll need a hell of a lot more money."

JSFiddle

[ormico]

http://jsfiddle.net/

then head over to jquery.com

Re:JSFiddle

[asylumx]

I second this -- OP talked a lot about HTML/CSS which JSfiddle handles well, and also lets you get into a lot of client side stuff like jquery. Definitely a good resource.

To Everybody...

[Jane Q. Public]

To everybody who has taken issue with my suggestion to avoid PHP, I offer you a quote excerpted from THIS more complete explanation. I am hardly alone in my opinion and I did not make this stuff up.

I can't even say what's wrong with PHP, because -- okay. Imagine you have uh, a toolbox. A set of tools. Looks okay, standard stuff in there.

You pull out a screwdriver, and you see it's one of those weird tri-headed things. Okay, well, that's not very useful to you, but you guess it comes in handy sometimes.

You pull out the hammer, but to your dismay, it has the claw part on both sides. Still serviceable though, I mean, you can hit nails with the middle of the head holding it sideways.

You pull out the pliers, but they don't have those serrated surfaces; it's flat and smooth. That's less useful, but it still turns bolts well enough, so whatever.

And on you go. Everything in the box is kind of weird and quirky, but maybe not enough to make it completely worthless. And there's no clear problem with the set as a whole; it still has all the tools.

Now imagine you meet millions of carpenters using this toolbox who tell you "well hey what's the problem with these tools? They're all I've ever used and they work fine!" And the carpenters show you the houses they've built, where every room is a pentagon and the roof is upside-down. And you knock on the front door and it just collapses inwards and they all yell at you for breaking their door.

That's what's wrong with PHP.

Only company approved software...

[fahrbot-bot]

At work we are not allowed to install anything except company approved software.

That's adorable.

Re:What about an online IDE? ( koding.com )

[MacRonin]

You could always try to sign-up for a Beta at http://koding.com/

Eclipse

[drkstr1]

Does your work computer have Java on it? If so, than Eclipse runs without needing an install. It has plugins for every type of development emaginable (for example, I do my Flash development in Eclipse). It also happens to be my favorite IDE (which includes those I've paid hundreds of dollars for), so you are not going to sacrifice on quality. It also seems to be hated by many, though, they never seem to say why. Personally, it is the most productive IDE I've ever used, despite some of its minor flaws.

Quite a Few Online IDEs to chose from.

[monk]

I take your question to mean that you want to program but aren't allowed to add anything to your work machine, including binary files that don't require an installer to run. That's typically how I've seen that sort of rule interpreted.

You mentioned an interest in HTML/CSS and presumably javascript.

You might enjoy JSFiddle

If you would like to try other languages or other approaches, there are online IDEs for that too:

ShiftEdit - Online IDE | ShiftEdit
ECCO -Web-based IDE
Cloud IDE
WIODE
CodeRun
Cloud9 IDE
http://www.codeanywhere.net

And some more lists and reviews:
http://speckyboy.com/2010/07/25/the-most-powerful-and-feature-rich-web-based-code-editors-ides/

Another option would be to look at some of the free shell account vendors online, but you seemed mostly interested in GUI IDEs so that might not be your thing.

If you want a fun, short read about why you might want to reconsider the command line, check out In the Beginning Was the Command Line by Neal Stephenson

Re:Quite a Few Online IDEs to chose from.

[Alastair Gilfillan]

If you're already comfortable with HTML and CSS, I can't think of anything more appropriate than JS via (jsFiddle) and once it's warranted, get some cheap/free LAMP hosting to get into PHP and MySQL. I think everyone's just suggesting what they started with, as I'm guilty of beginning with PHP after HTML/CSS, but for a web master/designer, it's unlikely that pre-compiling languages (?) are going to be useful or interesting to you, given your foundation. You can take PHP further with shell scripting and by that time you'll probably have little trouble understanding or diving right into "real" languages.

Re:Don't listen to the amateurs.

[Johann Lau]

PHP has virtually no internal consistency. It is a hodgepodge of utility functions, many of which do almost the same things, but take different parameters, in different order even. It was (is) a project in which contributions were just taken willy-nilly, and incorporated into the product, seemingly without regard to any sort of organization.

Oh god no, not that tired old argument order crap. If it matters that much to you, write wrapper functions, that's still fast enough. Not to mention those bloated list where half of the stuff applies to PHP4, and the other half doesn't matter in practice. You don't think I don't know that link? Heh. That post is old and a fractal of bullshit mixed in with petty annoyances, and only a few solid criticisms. And of course, the best counter-arguments are simply forbidden in the pre-face, "because I say so", how fucking lame can you get. Next.

And object-orientation?

Who cares?

Ruby, for example (I'm not certain about Python) is object-oriented from the ground up.

Yeah well so is Javascript, and you can run that in your browser without touching the local file system at all. At least try to keep the topic you're posting in mind. I quote, the OP "would like to get into programming just to tinker a bit due to curiosity. At work we are not allowed to install anything except company approved software". And you criticize PHP which isn't even eligible. Well, lol.

No, for educational purposes, PHP is about the worst thing I could think of.

This isn't for educational purposes.

Oh, and C rules, always did, always will. But that's entirely besides the point.

You wanted to know why you got modded down -- I don't know that, but I tried to tell why I think your post was a failure. I guess I failed with that as well. Happy coding.

Re:mod parent up

[Billly Gates]

How about you tinker on your own time before IT finds out and your ass gets fired?

Besides myself the only one stating the obvious. Who is paying the bills? Whose time is it? You are being paid to work.

Ultraedit

[holophrastic]

There's a mobile/portable version of ultraedit, and while it can be nothing more than a simple notepad replacement, it can also be configured as a rather formidable IDE. www.ultraedit.com

Re:Don't listen to the amateurs.

[Johann Lau]

Standard library is bloated and inconsistent with many almost, but not completely, incompatible ways to do one thing

What are the "many incompatible ways to do one thing", and how did you read that into the post I was responding to? Argument order is the most tired, most idiotic thing that can be brought up, yet it gets brought up every time, and I shouldn't even have dignified that bit with a response I guess. And since when is performance the crucial part in this context, and how can you keep a straight face when Ruby is mentioned? Decide, either you want it all fancy schmancy and pattern this and pattern that, or you want it fast. *Neither* applies to the topic, but still, at least you'd be consistent while being off-topic.

Your post lacks argumentation, that's why no replies, just modding down" - "Here's arguments that don't apply to the question" - "Well, fuck your arguments, for the following reasons. It's bullshit. Who cares about object obsession in the context of tinkering out of curiosity/boredom, when the company policy, not language quality, is the prime concern?"

Peh.

That's Rhetoric Platinum, right there.

Are you talking to/about yourself? Because that was just some weak-ass sophistry.

Skirting the rules

[nurb432]

I'm glad you don't work where i do, as you are trying to cheat the system. Just because its not technically being "installed", its still a bad security practice to run software that hasn't been approved by IT.

I hope they lock your PC down so you cant even breathe and have to ask permission to even reboot.. I know i would...

Re:Skirting the rules

[Anonymous Coward]

Well aren't you just a breath of fresh in this thread...

Use already installed stuff.

[ZombieBraintrust]

Chances are you already have access to some programming environments.
Have Microsoft Excel? (spreadsheet software) Then you can program in Visual Basic. (I may be wrong here, It may use something else now)
Have a web browser and notepad? Then you can do some simple web development with Html and Javascript

Microsoft Excel

[ZombieBraintrust]

Another thing that may be installed already is Microsoft Office. I believe Microsoft Office products have a programming language built in. At a minimum if you have Excel then you can program some stuff in the spreadsheet. Though I think you can do much more than that. Some searching suggest you can program in Visual Basic in Excel.

Re:Microsoft Excel

[Hognoxious]

I was thinking VBA too. It's not that bad a language and if it's never the best solution of anything there are times when it's the easiest/quickest way to do some ad-hoc job. Plus it's easy to justify as work-related.

But I'm not sure if it's installed by default. The office installer is a veritable forest of options.

Re:Microsoft Excel

[datavirtue]

Come on guys, you know what will happen. He'll write a program in VBA for excel, someone will discover it, start using it, and before you know it, it becomes a mission critical enterprise application. The best part, you will end up supporting it! Do we really need any more of this shit?!

Re:Try honesty?

[MobileTatsu-NJG]

He is not automating such tasks but is learning while taking money from his employer and shareholders to do it. Unless he wants to expand his role to do things like help out debugging the website I see this as theft and dishonest like the original grandposter.

They don't have enough work from him while he's on the clock and he's using that time to make himself more capable to help the company. Not theft. Sorry.

Strawberry Perl

[coldmist]

It's a portable perl distribution. Put it on a thumbdrive, and use Notepad to edit code.

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Re:Don't listen to the amateurs.

[Jane Q. Public]

"And you criticize PHP which isn't even eligible. Well, lol."

Quite the assumption there. It depends a hell of a lot on your native OS. PHP runs just fine on a Mac, right out of the box. (If you turn it on in your preferences.)

So does Ruby, so does Python, so does C, so does Java.

Re:Don't listen to the amateurs.

[Jane Q. Public]

"You don't think I don't know that link? Heh. That post is old and a fractal of bullshit mixed in with petty annoyances, and only a few solid criticisms."

At least get your story straight before you reply. That post is "old"? Yeah... 2 months old! And the criticisms are all valid, from my point of view. Certainly none of them are false, in my experience.

This isn't for educational purposes.

Um... maybe take a bit of your own advice, and stick to what OP wrote? "... just to tinker a bit due to curiosity. pretty much equals "educational purposes", at least where I come from.

Re:Don't listen to the amateurs.

[Jane Q. Public]

"You wanted to know why you got modded down..."

Not even close. I know very well WHY it was modded down. But I do not agree that the reason was valid.

Clojure

[ANonyMouser]

If you have java installed then you could try Clojure, it's a dialect of a family of languages called lisp. You will probably need access to the command line. It's perhaps a little mind bending but I really like it.

Re:mod parent up

[MobileTatsu-NJG]

The reason it's so 'obvious' to you is that you're assuming his boss has given him a full workload. That doesn't always happen for a variety of reasons and it's not the employee's fault.

No, his post should not be modded up and you seriously don't know what you're talking about. Honestly I'm starting to think both of you have pointy hair.

Re:mod parent up

[X0563511]

No. You're being paid to get a set of tasks or jobs done and be available to handle more as they come up. If they are completed and there's nothing pending, then what? Of course, this is assuming you're an exempt employe. Hourly employees are little more than indentured servants these days.

Re:Try honesty?

[spauldo]

You'd punish the guy for coding and doing non-job related things on your watch (his question is about not breaking policy, so you don't have him there)? Why? If his assigned tasks are getting completed, and his job performance isn't suffering, then why would you fire an employee for trying to improve himself?

I know why. You're a lousy boss.

I've met people like you. I've worked (briefly) for people like you. I walk out - a bad boss is not worth any amount of money to me. On the other hand, I'll work three times as hard for a good boss. You're trading loyalty for paranoia and resentment, and the only benefit you get from it is the employee performing busywork just to maintain the false perception of "professionalism." You're treating your employees as machines instead of humans.

Performance and meeting job expectations is the only relevant factor in an employee's worth. Does the employee do the job acceptably and on time? Does he/she do so in a manner that benefits the department/company/unit? If yes, then leave him/her alone. If no, replace them. It's as simple as that. Any micromanaging will only cause trouble for both the company and the employee.

Re:Try honesty?

[X0563511]

I'm glad I don't work for Billy Gates there. He's the kind of person who'd fire people for thinking.

Re:obligatory metapost

[X0563511]

TBH sounds like call-center work. He's a worker bee. "We don't pay you to think!"

Re:Bring in your own laptop and get permission fir

[Hognoxious]

As far as most lawyers are concerned the fact that you didn't use an "installer" to get your non-approved crap on the PC is the kind of thing that can turn a case

FTFY

Re:Bring in your own laptop and get permission fir

[vux984]

If someone sees you using "portable" applications that aren't on the approved applications list the policy gets clarified ... the phrase "you may not install non-approved apps on company computers" gets changed to "you may not install or run non-approved apps on company computers"

Your move.

Get a virtual private server

[water-and-sewer]

I had a similar situation at work. Get yourself a VPS - there are hundreds of companies out there - and then tunnel into it for playing around. If you're lucky your company lets you use SSH. If you're not Pendriveapps.com has PuTTy on a pendrive version. Use that to connect to your server and there you can do whatever you like, from Python to Perl to Lisp to Haskell.

RTFA, moron

[Hognoxious]

Perhaps more to the point, does he want to let them know he has so much idle time at work?

Indeed. That's why any firefighter with a decent work ethic should be walking the streets handing out matches to children.

Re:RTFA, moron

[Jane Q. Public]

Haha. Some years ago, a senior "fireman" in our area was caught & convicted for setting fires so that he could "discover" them and be instrumental in putting them out.

If memory serves, he will be in prison for quite a while yet.

3 words

[spongman]

group
policy
object

Re:3 words

[Max_W]

But is it possible to send the .7Z archive by e-mail, as an attachment, save it on local disk and run Notepad++ from a folder? Also without installation.

I know that there is even the browser Firefox, which can be run without installation, from a folder.

XML/XSLT/XSLFO

[hackertourist]

How about the next step up from HTML/CSS?

Notepad++ with the XMLtools plugin is a decent IDE for XML/XSLT work, and can be run from a thumbdrive without installation.

For FO, you need an output processor (FOP), I haven't found a portable output processor yet.

Two funny assumptions

[vlm]

I see two funny assumptions / themes in most responses

1) OP only has time during the summer. Is IT willing to install / support a dev environment before the end of summer, without back charging the department thousands. Are they even willing install something "just for testing and learning" ? I'm speaking from experience, for example for a couple weeks now, four teams have been trying to add another static NAT for me, plenty of stalling and finger pointing. Everyone in management and other departments might be in full formal written support of what OP is trying to do, but due to policies and procedures, etc, it simply can't be done in the time and budget provided.

2) My boss would never let me do "Z" therefore this guy cannot possibly have management permission to do "Z". I find this extraordinarily unlikely given the nearly universal understanding and acceptance of variation in workplace WRT absolutely everything else. This is a close cousin of "I work for inhuman slavedrivers, therefore its morally inappropriate for any other working relationship to exist anywhere else". Basically the quisling approach... most working relationships are not that screwed up.

Re:Two funny assumptions

[ZombieBraintrust]

His employer likely doesn't wan't him posting on Slashdot or surfing the web during the slow hours either. It really depends on his employer how ethical this is. I remember working at an engineering library in college. Some of the shifts were dead slow. We could surf the web but were not allowed to install anything.

Talk with your boss

[Opportunist]

Frankly and directly, that is the ONLY sensible way to tackle this.

The obvious reason: Doing something on the job that's not part of the job and not sanctioned by your superiors is asking for a "get your ass out of here now" speech. At best, they won't notice it and you won't get anything out of it but a few "tinker-toy" experiences you cannot even put on a resume. At worst, it's asking for trouble.

You might find that your boss is actually a sensible man who might want to put his employee's time to its best use. If you told him that your workload during Summer is minimal, he might of course find something more useful for you to do (which is, if you ask me, perfectly within his right), but he just might also find your active engagement to improve your skills interesting and commendable and give you what you want. I have never worked for a boss who wasn't interested in an employee that wants to improve his skills at no extra cost for the company.

Sweeten the deal by telling him what you might be able to accomplish additionally if you had the skills and he will most likely actually support you instead of hanging that "if they find out..." problem looming over your head.

Re:Some people don't recognise how lucky they are.

[Opportunist]

Now, now... being "grateful" for a job is kinda asking a bit much if you ask me. A job is a contract between an employer and an employee. You give me your workforce, I give you money. His boss might not even have noticed yet that there is little to do during Summer, and he would probably be very thankful for the information that this is the case. And if I didn't have anything to do for my employee for a time period and he comes up to me and asks if he could improve his skills during that time, why would I say no? Especially if it doesn't cost me a dime?

I'd sure as hell prefer that to an employee who keeps his mouth shut and just doodles or solves Sudokus...

USB stick and Portable Virtualbox

[Weaselmancer]

Get a 32Gb usb stick (not expensive) and put Portable Virtualbox on it.

Then make a VM and put whatever you like on it. Problem solved.

There are portable apps stuff

[Chewbacon]

I use a SSH tunnel home (putty), Firefox, and Notepad++ all from portable apps to do hobby work from my job. Albeit Notepad++ isn't an IDE, I can use the FTP plugin to edit stuff on projects I'm using. You could also use Emacs over the SSH. So then I also have Apache running so I can play with what I'm working on. Works well. That said, I only do minor tweaking and bug related fixes at work. I do the real time consuming stuff at home.

Java Coding Online

[benjamin.mestrallet]

Web IDE that support dynamic languages like Python, PHP, Ruby are quite common but Cloud IDE that do support compiled one (Java, C#,Objective C) are rare. Though in an enterprise environment JEE and .Net are very popular. Before, If you wanted to work with Java you needed to install at least Eclipse which comes with its own JVM. Now you can do pretty much the same thing completely online: Build, Debug and Deploy Tools like eXo Cloud IDE allows you to do some Java Debug online as you can see in that video. You can also create more advanced build jobs thanks to Cloudbees DEV@Cloud and bind the two services through GIT. Then you can deploy your app to any PaaS that support Java like CloudBees, CloudFoundry, Openshift or even Heroku.

Re:Java Coding Online

[benjamin.mestrallet]

Some links:
Cloud IDE
Online Java Debug Video
Cloud Bees
Cloud Foundry
OpenShift
Heroku

I've concluded!

[adumonit]

Its very hard to answer a question! Judging from most responses, nitpicking around issues related to a question is easier.

CoffeeScript !

[Btrot69]

I'm an old timer, but all of the cool kids that I know are using CoffeeScript http://coffeescript.org./
It's just an extension of Javascript and it compiles into ordinary Javascript.
It fixes most of the weird "broken" syntax of Javascript -- making it much more similar to Python (a better learning language -- if you could install it).

Best of all -- it runs in the browser -- hit the "Try CoffeeScript" tab in at coffeescript.org.

Re:What about an online IDE? ( koding.com )

[benjamin.mestrallet]

or Cloud IDE , especially if you use Java: Online Java Debug Video

Re:Don't listen to the amateurs.

[countach74]

This shouldn't be rated Troll... Just way too many "Hey wait, I use and like PHP" folks out there who haven't actually used a real language. I would say Python is easier for a non programmer to pick up than Ruby, though. That's not to say Ruby isn't fantastic.

Re:I disagree

[countach74]

Dude, PHP is an interpreted language. Apparently your definition of a compiled language is that the interpreter is compiled, in which case all interpreted languages are compiled languages.... lolwut? PHP runs as a module inside the web server, just like Python Server Pages, Java Server Pages, etc. Wow, I can't believe I'm replying to this. Not to mention, it is also an awful language with no consistencies even between what seem like similar functions. It plain sucks and suggesting it as a "starter language" for a programmer-to-be is both irresponsible and mean.

In contrast to WAMP, download Python, load a couple of modules (CherryPy + Jinja2 come to mind) and you're all set. It's its own web server. How simple is that? These are tools that greatly encourage MVC development. Learning Python or Ruby has the advantage of teaching someone how to program as opposed to how to make stuff show up on a web page. PHP encourages messy, unmaintainable code, which is the opposite of languages like Python and Ruby.

Lastly, Facebook uses PHP because it just happened to "start out" as a PHP site, not because it was the right tool for the job. As such, their performance and no doubt, their maintainability, has been a huge issue as they've been growing.

Or to put it simply.....

[Kernel Kurtz]

First rule of management;

Treat your employees well and they will go the extra mile for you when you need them to. Treat them poorly and they will fuck you around every chance they get.

Cratered

[tepples]

those human resources are fucking fungilbe as shit

Fungilbe? Sounds like a town in Africa, not far from Tecardre and Imcilbi

For "Tecardre", I get "cratered" and "terraced", but nothing for "Imcilbi".

you have every option here

[takeya]

Got hosting? Could you get free hosting?

You have a dozen online IDEs to pick from, perhaps codeanywhere, cloud9ide or shiftedit would be good choices. Write your PHP, Perl, Python, etc, right there.

Got hosting? Could you get a free shell account?

Download PuTTY and ssh in, find your favorite editor and install it to ~/.local or wherever you get to put your personal programs. Code to your hearts content and compile it - C, Haskell, Malbolge, whatever you like.

*Really* want to develop on Windows? Okay, go to vbox.me and download Virtualbox, install it portably. Bonus points if you put it in a truecrypt partition so dismounting it leaves no traces. Install Windows in a virtual machine and enjoy being administrator. Install your favorite IDE and program away.