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Debian Changes Default Desktop From GNOME To XFCE
An anonymous reader writes "The default desktop within Debian 7.0 'Wheezy' has changed from GNOME to Xfce. GNOME, KDE, and LXDE will continue to be available, but the decision was made to default to Xfce. The reported reasoning comes down to size constraints in fitting GNOME on a single CD."
There's a "default desktop" in Debian? I thought everyone just installed the netinst and used apt-get to install whatever desktop they wanted.
Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
I am okay with this. I've used XFCE on most linux server boxes for years anyway (if any graphical environment at all). Way more lightweight than Gnome or KDE and works great.
However... there are definitely some issues that bespeak a need for more polish. E.g. this one, or this one. Hopefully a bit more focused attention will lead to quicker fixes.
PHEM - party like it's 1997-2003!
Whatever the reason is for the change, I will say "Thank god, thank you thank you thank you Debian developers".
And why is it important that a distribution fits on one?
Debian sounds a voice of reason within the community.
I wondered how they would tackle the infamous UI "situation", and this was the outcome I hoped everyone involved would have the guts to go forth with.
Rejoice for a surge of development activity for Xfce - a much more fruitful use of developer time than some other currently available UI sinks.
GNOME 3
Most folks grabbing debian are getting just the installer file (live-cd) and burning that to disk. If in the States, just go to your local library, college or university and grab the remainder of the disk images and put them onto a flash drive. The installer includes the ability to mount ISO images, so you have little to no problem unless the system is so old that it doesn't have USB ports. In that case, its too old to run the latest debian.
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Mod me up/Mod me down: I wont frown as I've no crown
Torvalds said "I'm using Xfce. I think it's a step down from gnome2, but it's a huge step up from gnome3. Really"
Some of us learn from other people's mistakes and the rest of us have to be other people. -- Zig Ziglar
It's probably a sane choice to move debian away from gnome and towards xfce, but I wonder if the reason is very sound. They should have switched to DVD as the default ISO media many years ago, becuase people who are on such an old computer that it lacks a DVD will surely want to use the less than 200 MB netinstall ISO instead.
I think that it's still important with an offline-installable system, but limiting yourself to CD when DVD has been the standard for ages is just weird and shows of stagnation and "get off my lawn".
c++;
Oh, don't worry about that; any excuse will do!
Forward! -- Emperor Norton, 2012
Why is a CD's capacity the deciding factor for a component with such broad repercussions throughout the OS? It's 2012, folks. How many new installations are really made or broken on what works from a 700MB CD when a 4.7GB DVD is an incredibly common substitute?
I'm not ridiculing this decision, despite my surprised tone. I'm actually interested in learning more about the reasoning behind it, if anyone has some more background.
Believe it or not, not all of us have ultra-high speed Internet connections. Or a desire to install the world at one go, for that matter.
If in the States
Here's a weird little fact. Many people don't live in the USA.
Many people also don't have unlimited access to the Internet, or unlimited money. For these reasons it makes sense to continue supporting the simplest, cheapest way of distributing software on physical media, and that is a CD-ROM.
It's 2012, folks.
And in 2012, wireless ISPs still impose monthly caps not much more than the capacity of a 4.7 GB DVD. Or must everyone drive into town and find a library willing to let the user sit and download an entire DVD image to a flash drive? In 2012?
I used XFCE for a while years ago, after one of the bloatenings of Gnome. Switched back and had been pretty happy with Gnome until they started turning it into WebTV. Still struggled along with classic mode for a while, but they've been dumbing that as well. Switched back to XFCE and very pleased.
If you want a thin client for the cloud, Gnome/Windows 8/Mountain Lion/ChromeOS are all fine. If you want a computer, XFCE/Debian may be the best option.
I tend to think a divergence is inevitable. The masses don't want a computer and never did. They grudgingly used them because it was where all the good stuff was. Now that the oligarchs are offering convenience as an alternative to liberty, most people are lining up. The hardware manufacturers are falling right in line with UEFI, the network providers are pushing to cripple the nasty peer-to-peer design of the Internet, and everyone with an IQ below 120 (and a surprising percentage of those above) can easily be convinced they are happier this way. It's called progress.
Ummm, which is why I like XFCE... OK, bit of a digression there. But maybe that suggests a motto: "XFCE: Don't shuffle blandly into the decline."
Stop-Prism.org: Opt Out of Surveillance
fvwm 1.4 for me. 1.4r? something like that.
I started with twm while at DEC (which worked great with DECwindows). after years of good luck with twm, I finally 'upgraded' to fvwm.
hard to get too much lighter weight than that. runs on ancient slow hardware and never takes up much resources. the only thing you need running is X! no other 'daemons' or sound this or graphics that or object otherthing. just plain fvwm and the term window you prefer.
after years of using workstations, I can't seem to justify 'desktops'. term windows launch apps that are text or graphic based. all works fine. and its the same UI I can count on, year after year.
I know, GOML. I know. but I still can't see any reason to leave fvwm for a 'desktop'. I don't think I'm missing anything.
(and of course I do 'xsetroot -solid black' in my .xinitrc. you mean, you don't??)
--
"It is now safe to switch off your computer."
I moved to Bodhi Linux with its Enlightenment desktop, and like it. That's the fun thing - everyone can find their own escape route from Gnome3 since Linux offers so many choices.
Bodhi is very lightweight and was easy to configure (though it took me a day to figure out E17's vocabulary). I'm very happy, and it's a simple CD download, which is good - I don't have much bandwidth.
DVD downloads are a hassle, in my opinion. When it comes time to download one I usually resort to purchasing from one of the companies that advertises on distrowatch.org.
I highly recommend Bodhi though - it's very sharp and polished.
If this were Usenet, I'd killfile the lot of you.
you left out workstations. or thin clients.
my client is a linux MINT install, with fvwm to launch enough of an xterm so that I can start vncviewer.
vncserver runs on my always-on server, a true server (uptime over a year, now). all my browsing and editing happens there.
my workstation is a light e350 amd box with built in video. its all on the mobo and I needed no extra cards. the only 'risers' are the dimms!
this gets me a very reliable, low heat and low noise video window into the business-end of my systems.
I can turn the system off or let it go into power saver mode, then boot it back up the next day and resume my vnc session where I left off.
this isn't a server (the e350) and its not embedded. but its my 'desktop' in my quiet work room ('thinking room').
--
"It is now safe to switch off your computer."
It's about time for XFCE to become the default of a major distro. Since 4.8, it's definitely been polished enough.
If only people didn't need to have 600Mb just to draw a couple of buttons and widgets on an XServer screen...
FVWM has been my WM for almost a decade, but I'm willing to give these new DE's a try.
I hear CDE has been open sourced recently
vi +
http://www.linuxjournal.com/ufiles/debian_netinstall.png
If you do a netinstall, there comes a point when you are asked if you want to install a "Standard system" and there is a choice for "Desktop environment" without any futher choice. In Debian, this meant gnome. If you do the same with ubuntu (minimal iso=netinstall), it shows a longer list with choices including lxde, xfce, kde an others.
http://i.imgur.com/DTFyq.png
Debian does have better tasksel choices, but they are not exposed by the installer. Sure, any pro user can stick to Standard system and after finishing, complete the install from the command line (either by running tasksel and or apt-get/aptitude, etc.
But the point is, if you do pick "Standard" and "Desktop" in the installer, it would install a gnome desktop.
Artix
Your Linux, your init.
GNOME always had a huge load of dependencies, and this is only getting worse as time goes by. Yes, this includes 2.x, but most of us wouldn't bother because it was popular - most would simply keep it, some would install something else, and few would have the trouble of uninstalling it.
However, since lots of people hate GNOME 3, the odds of people needing to remove all its packages rise sharply: "I DON'T WANT THAT UGLY BLOAT IN MY SYSTEM!" isn't something unheard... keeping GNOME 3.x as default DE would be counter-productive both to Debian's loyal fanbase (giving them more work) and to new users (since most potential users are turned off by retarded defaults in any distro).
Yes, there is net-inst. No, you don't need to install even the default desktop. But people, when getting in touch with a distro, will first and foremost go by the easier way - using the defaults. So, while they probably weren't lying that Debian+GNOME isn't fitting a CD anymore, it's probably the least concern that made them drop it as default.
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XFCE is a fantastic DE that is very flexible, customizable, easy-to-use, and mature. It runs great on old and new hardware. It runs better over NFS than Gnome ever has, it works great over NX or VNC.
I've used it on-and-off since the very beginning. It has always been a stable DE that has managed to evolve over time without every significantly alienating its user base.
Every year or two I upgrade or replace the Linux side of our Linux dual-boot lab machines at work. Since at least 2006 I've been defaulting to XFCE (early 4.0 and newer.)
Not once have the students complained about the desktop. True, it isn't super-flashy but it works like a charm.
(And, as an added bonus, I can still make it look like BeOS if I want to.)
It increases fragmentation. Our community is already tiny; we can't afford to be divided.
I switched from Gentoo to Ubuntu for this reason. I am now better informed to help people fix their Ubuntu problems; everyone benefits.
By the way, Unity is very good. it is beautiful, easy, convenient, fun, and saves screen real state.