Slashdot Mirror
White House Pulls Down TSA Petition
Jeremiah Cornelius writes with a note that on Thursday of this week "The Electronic Privacy Information Center posted a brief and detailed notice about the removal of a petition regarding security screenings by the TSA at US airports and other locations. 'At approximately 11:30 am EDT, the White House removed a petition about the TSA airport screening procedures from the White House 'We the People' website. About 22,500 of the 25,000 signatures necessary for a response from the Administration were obtained when the White House unexpectedly cut short the time period for the petition. The site also went down for 'maintenance' following an article in Wired that sought support for the campaign."
We need a petition for the petition!
Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
So much for open government and responsiveness. Yes, but only if we ask for what they want to give us.
Given that online petitions are notoriously ineffective, I wonder why they'd bother. Let the thing get to 25,000, and issue a generic, mostly content-free response about balancing safety and the War on Terror with civil liberties and whatever. I doubt it'd be particularly politically damaging either way, since this is one issue where the Obama administration is more or less in line with the GOP opposition, which created the TSA in the first place, and whose law-and-order branch still strongly supports it.
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
They were going to give a non-answer answer anyway. This is just an attempt to avoid any coverage of the issue.
-- IANAL, this isn't legal advice, and definitely isn't legal advice for you. Also, Squee!
The reddit crowd already went over this one in detail... it wasn't pulled down...the petitions have a limited amount of time, and there was a standard maintenance window near the time this particular petition ended. So no big conspiracy...just normal network maintenance...
TFS and TFA state that the "White House unexpectedly cut short the time period for the petition", and indeed, the petition's page now says "The petition you are trying to access has expired, because it failed to meet the signature threshold."
It would be nice if EPIC provided information on (i) how long a petition normally gets before it expires, and (ii) how old this petition was when it was abruptly terminated. We know that it had garnered 22500 out of the 25000 signatures required, but how much time was taken away by the early termination of the petition?
Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. - Voltaire
What did the petition say? Can we put up a new one and slashdot-sign it?
They are just waiting till the new norm forms and people find the insane security normal. From recent surveys about the TSA, and wee almost there.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CU0m6Rxm9vU
My ass.
Government by the people? I think not.
...for the least transparent administration in American history. Perhaps the Obama Administration will restore the petition shortly after they turn over the Fast and Furious documents Obama has claimed Executive Privilege over.
This is also par for the course for the Obama Administration's constant defense of the TSA. When Texas tried to pass a bill to ban TSA groping in the state, the Obama Administration threatened to impose a no fly zone on Texas over the right for TSA agents to grope people. Do you think think the Obama Administration will be any less protective now that they're unionized.
Texas Senate candidate Ted Cruz has called for the abolition of the TSA. Given the wasteful, intrusive, and ineffective security theater they stage, does anyone think the America public would object to to their abolition?
Lawrence Person (lawrencepersonh@gmailh.com (remove all "h"s to mail)
http://www.lawrenceperson.com/
http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2012/08/court_orders_ts.html Nothing to see here.
How much time was cut short? When was the petition supposed to end? IIRC it was ending very soon anyway.
If they didn't want to answer, they'd just say "this matter pertains to pending litigation, so we cannot comment" as they have done before. Why would they cut the answer period short?
Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
The petition was not removed, but randomly chosen for special screening in a side room, away from public eyes to protect its privacy. Hence you saw it "under maintenance".
Unfortunately it has been determined that the petition was carrying some dangerous baggage, and therefore it was denied boarding rights to the oval office. It is now blacklisted for future trips.
Hope and change ?
Bullshit.
What those of us with brains hope is that soon we will have a change of
president.
Has the "We The People" website had one iota of influence on ANY issue?
I suspect the whole purpose was to get some good touchy-feely-see-I-care press for launching the site, not to actually do anything substantive but pat people on the head and continue to do whatever the hell they want anyway.
oh wait.....
zosxavius photography
It never has been. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBdk5n68gdM
you see the petition was set to expire on the 9th and they admit they didn't have the 25,000 threshold so how can they complain? i think the TSA is crap but this is a bogus conspiracy.
If anyone bothers to read this, (and this is an old story already, been done at Reddit) they will discover that it was due to be taken down in a half an hour. It was a half an hour early, BIG FUCKING DEAL. It's highly doubtful that they would have got the 2500 signatures in that time anyway. Besides these petitions are only for letting them know what people are on about, to get a public opinion. They don't set policy.
This is a none issue, only made an issue by hysterical paranoid loons.
Take the Red Pill.
bringing back pre-Civil War stereotypes of Mulattos.
If by success you mean economic success, the Presidents had not much to do with it. Although the buildup of interstate highways paid for by US tax dollars reaped economic pay-offs that are still going on.
Also, much of that success of that period was the fact that the rest of the industrialized World was bombed out and we were pretty much it for manufactured goods and there was also pent up demand from the WWII. Most of our resources went to fighting WWII, retarding our economy in the process (Wars are NEVER good for an economy) and then after the war, folks were buying all those refrigerators, food stockings, cars, and everythign else they couldn't get during the war.
What I'm saying is, a monkey could have been President and we would still have had that economic boom.
And when the rest of the industrialized world caught up, well we started our decline.
Because We Can!
This comes from the "most transparent administration in American history." They are because they said so and if you say otherwise, they will remove your post.
In his own words:
"My Administration is committed to creating an unprecedented level of openness in Government. We will work together to ensure the public trust and establish a system of transparency, public participation, and collaboration. Openness will strengthen our democracy and promote efficiency and effectiveness in Government." - President Barack Obama
http://www.whitehouse.gov/the_press_office/TransparencyandOpenGovernment
"The average reporter we talk to is 27 years old......They literally know nothing." - Ben Rhodes
I tried to sign this petition several times over the last couple of weeks, but the system would not let me create an account.
ROFL.
1) The people behind this "story" are making a big fucking deal out of normal maintenance and a half hour
2) You really shouldnt care anyway cause 'We the People' is a fucking joke anyway. Its nothing more than busywork that gets you nothing else but an official copy and paste response.
We just recently saw a study which shows that the TSA isn't an issue -- Americans don't hate them that much.
But the study didn't control for whether you'd flown or not in the past few years.
Obviously, I'd like to see the study redone with whether you've flown. I suspect people who've flown HATE the TSA and people who haven't think they're grand.
But I'd also like another variable added. People who vote.
I suspect the people who don't hate the TSA are a complacent bunch who don't read, don't think, and don't vote. I further suspect people who don't fly don't vote. But it could go the other way. I want to see those numbers. The TSA may be a much, MUCH bigger issue than the administration thinks it is, or they may be completely right -- ignore it, because it's not something the real people who vote crare about.
getting rid of janet napolitano should be the focus of the effort. She loves the police state for some reason. When she was governer of Arizona they put in revenue cameras. When she left they ripped them out. Get rid of napolitano and there is a better chance to get rid of the tsa.
Amendment I of the Bill of Rights:
Congress shall make no law abridging the right of the people to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
If there's no law preventing it, then the White House must immediately address this grievous situation.
They're using their grammar skills there.
Almost exactly one year ago, when this website first launched in September 2011, a petition was submitted for "abolishing the TSA." The White House responded to it, and, BIG SURPRISE, gave a cookie cutter response defending the TSA without even acknowledging the short-comings of the TSA (budget, civil liberties, incompetence, and so on).
Considering the fact that the White House already gave an official response to this question, I don't see how they are under any obligation to answer a duplicate question. Even if the White House decided to respond to the duplicate question, was anyone expecting their answer to change in the slightest? After all, the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over again and expecting different results.
Nothing will come from all this horn-blowing about the petition. If either candidate were to openly come against the TSA, you can bet your ass their opponent will get a massive backing from the security industry which is supported by the TSA. Since neither Obama or Romney have the balls to challenge the TSA, the only answer is to vote third party and send the bastards a message that we are fed up with their shit. Once enough people become disenfranchised and stop voting for "the lesser of two evils" the political spectrum will shift over to accomodate these people, and their voices will be heard once again.
Don't you just hate it when people actually hear about a feedback loop within the government that annoys the executive branch (police state) enough for them to actually notice and take action?
JJ
What's the point of having a right to petition when the government doesn't have to listen or respond? It's bunk.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_to_petition_in_the_United_States#cite_note-10
Petition all you want.
A remote-control flying taxidermied cat
sysadmins and parents of newborns get the same amount of sleep.
Might as well get used to it folks. The TSA is never going away. Already it has absorbed several other agencies along the way (coast guard, etc.). As Rham Emmanuel once famous said "never let a good crisis go to waste". The creation of TSA was a direct result of 9/11 and it's continued existence is playing upon people's fears of some vague "terrorist" threat somewhere in the distance. Remember in the airports they always used to announce that the threat alert was "orange"? Never yellow, never red. Always orange. If it was yellow people might question if we even need the TSA. It was never red because they never actually caught anyone doing anything that could justify setting it to that. So basically it was just a charade. Remember how the govt told us how they were going to replace those rent-a-cops that the airlines used to hire for security? Looks to me like the same drones that were there before. The only difference is that it costs more and the lines are longer. I don't feel one bit safer. Oh, and the screenings are more invasive and we have given up (or had taken away more accurately) more of our civil rights. If someone wanted to blow up a plane they could do it TODAY, with or without the TSA. I'm not suggesting that we don't need screening in airports I just don't want the government in charge of it.
My, what rose colored glasses you have.
Truman was a dyed-in-the-wool machine politician who inherited the presidency from Roosevelt - and he was only in the position because of deals made in smoke filled back rooms and political patronage. Eisenhower was a war hero who was drafted (after much struggle) by the Republican Party to exploit his popularity and give them a chance to break the long dominance of the Democratic party.
Not to mention that the House and Senate were already dominated by career politicians.
Indeed, much has changed.
I hope you're all happy who you voted for!
-Styopa
The EPA can only enforce environmental laws within the US. They have no ability to enforce US environmental standards overseas, and no ability to prevent the importation of foreign-manufactured goods unless the goods THEMSELVES pose an environmental threat (such as banned pesticides).
While I completely agree with you in regards to outsourcing in order to skirt environmental regulations, the laws needed to prevent this would need to come from agencies other than the EPA. Starting with the commerce dept.
Remember "News for Nerds, Stuff that Matters"? Help make it a reality again! http://soylentnews.org
I am reposting this from Friday:
In a recent Schneier post titled Court Orders TSA to Answer EPIC a menacing comment was left by what claimed to be 'Blogger Bob' from the TSA's blog. It may be and likely enough is a dupe, but seemed terribly appropriate for the TSA. I have pasted it below for your reading pleasure, for the second time:
"I've been asked to respond to this post in order to clarify misunderstandings that some people may have.
The TSA properly exempted itself from the requirements of the Administrative Procedure Act and the Sunshine Act. The TSA granted itself the exemption for valid reasons that must remain classified for National Security reasons, so you'll have to trust us on that.
The TSA also had a valid grounds for respectfully refusing to comply with both court orders. The reasons are also classified for National Security reasons, so again you'll have to trust us the refusal was appropriate and necessary. But I can tell you that the decision was based on thorough analysis of the latest robust intelligence pertaining to the current threat environment.
In both cases, TSA Counsel determined that any form of notice and comment rulemaking regarding the deployment of AIT would be detrimental to National Security, based on the classified determinations I referenced above. TSA Counsel prepared a classified memorandum exempting the agency from notice and comment requirements. TSA Counsel believes that the National Security determinations set forth in the classified memorandum give the TSA full authority to disregard any court orders requiring notice and comment rulemaking.
You are, of course, free to sign the petition. But it will have no more effect than the lawsuit or the court order. And do be aware that pursuant to classified TSA procedures, any names on the petition will be forwarded to the Terrorist Screening Center for possible inclusion on appropriate watch lists.
Thank you for allowing me to address your concerns about this matter."
Posted by: Blogger Bob at August 2, 2012 6:39 PM
Forward! -- Emperor Norton, 2012
Wired is good for us but this news needs to be on the majors, such as they are.
Anyone know anyone at the NY Times, CNN, whatever?
blindly antisocialist = antisocial
Cause the dictatorship don't wanna hear it!
I killed da wabbit -Elmer Fudd
This is the sound of me being totally surprised:
In Soviet America, you need pre-approval for a signature campaign.
Excuse me, but please get off my Pennisetum Clandestinum, eh!
This is why no one believes you, and why the best you can hope for is "not as bad as the Republican alternative."
Too bad we can't get a real left wing in this country.
Great Intellect...
Nobody paid 94 or whatever % taxes. Entire industries were created to avoid taxes
Second: what kind of logic is that, marginal tax rates were high and so this is why the economy was better or whatever the point is? That's a huge logical fail, none of that follows.
How's that cognitive dissonance working out for ya?
Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
So they pull this one just before getting to the 25,000 threshold. So what? That 25.000 threshold never meant anything! Never.
IIRC, the similar signature gathering for review of SOPA went far over 25,000, and the response was: Yeah, we 'reviewed" it. Now STFU and GTBW. Did you really think they would reverse a policy based on petitions at that site? Since its inception, have any proposals been reversed due to petitions at https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/?
See? We're good! We're giving you, the little people, a voice! [we won't listen to it, but here ya go]
meet the new boss, same as the old boss.
Double anal inspections for everyone.
How dare you question your government?
You are screwing us and we like it, YEAH!
"Trump!!", the new Godwin.
Don't think that Robespierre wasn't paid by the banks.
"Trump!!", the new Godwin.
Every time a petition goes up which the Obama Administration doesn't like, which seems like a regular occurrence these days, be it legalization of marijuana or now this TSA proposal, it gets shut down by the operatives in the White House. Let me make it perfectly plain to those of you who aren't seeing this: Obama is a true product of the cutthroat and revenge oriented Chicago style of American machine politics. Consider his background prior to being elected President, that of an east coast lawyer who never worked an honest job in his whole life and has ZERO respect for business or private enterprise. He speaks about "transcending" politics and bringing people together, while stabbing enemies and even friends in the back when they aren't looking. Obama is a silver-tounged devil, plain and simple, and the thugs who work for his administration are ever ready to do whatever it takes to get rid of those whom they add to their "enemies list". In this much at least the Obama Administration makes Bush and his cronies look like rank amateurs.
Thank you President Obama, for keeping your word.
"A minute after he took office, the White House website declared his administration would become “the most open and transparent in history.” By the end of his first full day on the job, Obama had issued high-profile orders pledging “a new era” and “an unprecedented level of openness” across the massive federal government."
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0312/73606.html
The 'Beat-Off'N'Chief' is also the 'Asshole'N'Chief' with about a millions strong army of 'Want'A'Be Assholes' of the Unelected government of the United States of America right in DC.
In November I hope the real people Delete the Obama Virus Presidency and forcefully remove the asshole by military assault in January.
Popcorn a popping.
LOL
The United States is totally screwed anyway. It has both a disfunctional political system, and a corrupt legal system.
Any country with the American level of inequality, and total corruption at the core of government will eventually just disintegrate. The time of global American power has passed, and we can happily watch over the decline of their rotten empire, as the various sewer rats chew at the thining remainder of fat from the rotten bones (eg. Wall Street bankers). Most of the world hates the US policies that are directed against them, in the name of American economic imperialism (note, we don't generally hate ordinary Americans. We feel pity for you.). We are sick of copyright and patent abuse. We are sick of the 'free market' capitalism, with its hideously unbalanced trade laws. These blatently favour the rich and powerful corporations, ensure exploitation of workers, and guarantee depression of real wages. We are tired of US militarism, and US military bases in our countries. We have had enough of US wars that are designed only for American companies to plunder than natural resources of various states. We are sick of the US support for various fanatical regimes that persecute millions of people (eg. Saudi Arabia, Israel, Pakistan, Kuwait, Bahrain, Quatar, UAE, Iraq, Afghanistan, Georgia)
There is a good reason that the Africans favour Chinese involvement in their continent, over doing any business with the United States. Look at an example: Congo, where the US triggered massive destabilisation and genocide by arming and supporting the Tutsi, in their invasion of Congo. Of course, as usual, not one member of the ruling regime of the United States, ever faced any kind of trial at The Hague. The Chinese prefer to do business with stable governments, and do not sponsor armed insurrection. It is much easier for African countries to develop, if they have not been ravaged by war and ethnic strife. There is no short cut do democratic development through military force, or breeding ethnic strife.
I invite everyone to join me in a policy of deliberate divestment in the United States, and a boycott of all American companies/US produced goods, wherever humanly possible. Only by eliminating the lifeblood (the money) that flows to the heinous regime in Washington, can we accelerate its collapse back in to its own borders, and effect an end to the rotten and corrupt policies that the regime is constantly forcing upon other countries.
In my view, any country that interferes in the affairs of other sovereign nations is a rogue state, and needs to be opposed at all costs.
How is that hope and change working out for all you idiots.
Hahahaha
but how much time was taken away by the early termination of the petition?
I'm too lazy to dig up wherever I read it, maybe it was a comment on hacker news, but it sounded like it had about another week to go before expiration.
It expired on the 9th. See, e.g. Bruce Schneier's post a week ago, or the Fark thread from the 8th saying 'it expires tomorrow'.
Nobody paid 94 or whatever % taxes. Entire industries were created to avoid taxes...
Second: what kind of logic is that, marginal tax rates were high and so this is why the economy was better or whatever the point is? That's a huge logical fail, none of that follows.
He claims that higher taxes caused "entire industries" to be created, and in the VERY NEXT SENTENCE he denounces that as illogical.
If that ain't cognitive dissonance...
Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
The wealthy have already looted the country after cajoling us into reducing our entire social contract down to one aspect: Money (the piles of it that they're sitting on).
You have to find a workable way to get that money back, or else they'll take it with them when they go. If its done incorrectly (assuming there is a decent way, short of shifting the entire nation's value system toward the political sphere), then virtually all of the 'trust' between people and ability to convincingly motivate them go flying out the window. At that point you are left printing up new bales of currency that the rest of the world's bankers will wrinkle their noses at.
Then again, we can simply tax them and take that new Globalized police state that was used to help the wealthy loot and control, and turn it against them so that tax collection (like Predator strikes) becomes an inevitability. It might work...
How about re-posting the petition, and mention the fate of the previous petition. Include all the drama its removal incurred. You can even have a "release party", on Twitter, Facebook and whatnot.
[End Of Line]
They're not suffering. Make 'em pay their taxes.
The creator of the petition says that the petition expired at the expected time. Nothing to see here.
There has to be a contradiction first. The claim of the original poster boils down to a) the rich pay more in marginal taxes, and b) that's why the economy is better. So the grandparent poster first shows a) is wrong and then shows b) is wrong. That's all logically consistent. There's no opportunity for cognitive dissonance.
For a decade. Clean out the corruption in DC.
I'm not calling for term limits. Just don't send ANYBODY back to the swamp.
Re-elect no one.
Go Team Obama....GO!!!
Gotta love that 'Hope and Change", don't you?
You Hope the petition's going to do something, then they Change the rules on you and your petition doesn't mean dick..
You're expected to come up with new ways to agree.
Anything that doesn't agree will be ignored.
Traditionally it was used by religious cults against more sophisticated targets but now used it's used by governments too.
"I believe the puppet on the left shares MY beliefs, well I believe the puppet on the right has MY interests at heart...hey wait a minute, there's one guy working both puppets!"...Bill Hicks.
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
Losing sleep.
Losing hair.
Losing life.
Life lost can not be recovered.
LOL
When I saw this on Wednesday, it was set to expire on Thursday.
I don't know why I am appalled by this, but I am.
Someone can video tape themselves lighting a fart on Youtube and end up with 2million views in a 2 weeks, but this issue couldn't get 25,000 signers!?!? WTF!!!
This is the real reason we are declining as a nation, because people would rather navel gaze than actually put their name to something.
Did I say that we should let the rich "get away with anything"? No. I said that taxing the rich "very heavily" is a bad idea.
I didn't say that they should be allowed to "fuck you over" and "try their best to enslave you" either.
Yeah, cause Israel is such a benevolent democracy. Not.
Hitler's Bankers. etc.
Not Godwin - not a metaphor but actually the greatest part of the source of "neutral" Switzerlands wealth.
you make violent revolution an inevitability.
I know it, you know it, they sure as hell know it.
But they aren't afraid of this possibility.
That means, they have prepared for it. And will fight dirty.
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
So, you promise the following:
"Giving all Americans a way to engage their government on the issues that matter to them."
But your promise is a lie.
Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable.
John F. Kennedy
Are you advocating the violent overthrow of the United States Government?
Find me and ask me and I will tell you the answer.
But you can't find me.
I can find you.
One can like part of a system without subscribing to the whole of it.
You are set so deep in your delusions that no argument, no matter how logical or factual can't reach you.
I'm not here to argue with you.
At best, I'm here only to point out the flaws in your logic and views, so those who skim the discussions wouldn't get the idea that your delusional nonsense is an unopposed norm here.
I mean... I could waste days tearing apart your continuous torrent of quasi-arguments - and for what?
Even with those 4 points above, all you need is to scratch their surface to see that you manage to contradict yourself without even noticing.
You are actually promoting greed as a solution for everything and your personal tyranny over "the tyranny of taxation".
You would probably be a lot happier if you finally came out to yourself that you are not a libertarian as you've lead yourself to believe, but a full blown fascist. You may actually be happier.
Here's a hint: Libertarians have no need to meddle into other people's "misallocation of labor" - they are against such meddling.
Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
Slashdot needs a device that would administer a severe electric shock to any moron who types the words "Citation needed" as a punishment for ignoring the point, failing to respond and pretending to be some superior asshole.
The majority are garbage, posted by economically illiterate morons.
When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
Never mind what's behind the curtain....
*click* your heels three times and repeat
"Hope and Change"
"Hope and Change"
"Hope and Change"
Aww....still stuck?
Nothing embarrassing till after November.
The TSA argued to the court that a public comment period would thwart the government’s ability to respond to “ever-evolving threats.”
I guess they mean the threat of not getting re-elected.
But the ham-fisted handling of the petition seems also in violation of rule 1.
People are inherently self interested. Since people are also pack animals, it is usually true that one furthers one's own interests by cooperating with others. When people do that, we call it "good."
Sometimes, people are in a position where their own interests are better furthered by exploiting others than cooperating with them. When people take such actions to further such an interest, we still call it "good." Well, so long as we are among the class that benefits. If we are on the receiving end of said exploitation, we call it "evil."
Of course, we don't call it "evil" when people exploit, say, chickens. Or minerals. We only call it "evil" when people exploit other people, and further when we are among the exploited class.
"Good" and "Evil" are just arbitrary labels for actions based on how they impact us, directly. People are inherently neither.
(I will grant that some people are more likely to exploit humans than others, when incited to do so, but that varies with a very large set of circumstantial and genetic variables so projecting it on to a single line of good vs evil is impossible).
sponsored by the Rothschild, king of the Jewish Bankers, through their operative, Goldman Sachs.
Twitter: @dainsanefh
All please sign this petition. We need to restore the souls of all gingers!!!!
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/restore-ability-all-gingers-receive-soul/cpgVv84v
They bring their money that were well hidden from the Nazis, and they discover the almighty military power of the USA and found a way to seize control using their enormous financial power. They did that in Germany back in the 1930's by sponsoring Hitler. Controlling both parties trying to initiate a internal civil war and erode democracy is nothing new. Remember, Jews invented communism.
Twitter: @dainsanefh
Neither the Republicans nor the Democrats should run this country.
I guess fairy dust and magic underwear is all America can muster.
Not cutting this porker in an election year.
--
It's not the end of the world, but you can see it from here.
Let us ignore the fact that if we got rid of the military tomorrow the next day we would probably be overrun by some other country the following day. Also if we ignore all the other things external to military spending (jobs that are needed to support the military, the money military members spend, etc) your numbers still won't produce a balanced budget. There also is the interest on the debt that is still accumulating that will further increase the debt but we can even ignore that and your numbers don't work. For reference see the following:
There is the obligitory XKCD Money chart
The NY Times "Obama’s 2012 Budget Proposal: How $3.7 Trillion is Spent"
The NY Times "Obama’s 2011 Budget Proposal: How It’s Spent"
The NY Times "Four Ways to Slice Obama’s 2013 Budget Proposal" best when viewed by department as it is pretty worthless otherwise
The U.S. National Debt Clock showing the 6 largest budget items.
It's not like eliminating all military spending would magically produce a $500+ billion surplus each year. Yes it would get us much closer to a balanced budget for a few years but there are also major structural issues with Social Security (you can find this in section II Overview pages 2-5) now projected to take in less in taxes that it distributes (in 2022 the trust fund will start to decrease as the interest no longer makes up difference) indefinitely. In 2033 it will be unable to meet the all current obligations. There are also similar issues with Medicare and Medicaid but those are going to be happening sooner.
Now back to real world were things have consequences and we are basically screwed. From what I have read in the past on this subject we are fully capable of digging our selves out of this hole as 13 years ago we were running a budget surplus at the federal level and actually retiring what debt could be. The problem is that everyone wants to keep their government benefit, tax break, subsidy, etc and we have politicians that know that cutting someone's benefit or raising someone's taxes is political suicide so it is just easier to put off the hard decisions until later. That way it is some other congress critter's problem when the shit really hits the fan. In the '90s with Clinton in the White House and Republicans in charge in the house and the senate it was easy with the economy booming the necessary changes were being made and people didn't feel it. Now in a bad economy these changes would be devastating and people might have to break out the pitch forks and torches which no elected official wants.
Time to offend someone
Income tax? What about wealth tax? Income taxes that high simply guarantee that the already rich get to stay rich and in power.
If you want a more egalitarian world, you should tax wealth and especially inheritance, not income.
... going to loose Democratic voters over this, and other stuff he's done. They may not vote for Romney, but every vote Obama looses is as good as a vote FOR Romney.
THINK! It's patriotic
This just gives the Chicago Thugs we have in the WH the ability to say the petition never gained enough signatures. Just like they are trying to prevent the states from verifying voters are real people and not kids, pets, dead people, or illegal immigrants. They are doing everything they can to say they won this up coming election fairly.
How much do you think Computer Science Professors make? Two can live "comfortably" but they are a long way from being rich.
The same goes for a math prof and research scientist unless the scientist owns or is a partner is a research firm.
So I would say that both Page and Brin are a long, long way from being born with the proverbial silver spoon.
Maybe I should ask what income you think would qualify for the silver spoon category.
Then lets look at Gates. Even if his parents were wealthy, he dropped out of school and built a business out of a garage.
Some of them may come from wealthy families, but they made the businesses on their own and became wealthy in their own right, not on old money.
but the tax preparer doesn't contribute as much and hence, the rich tend to pay less in tax preparation as well as in taxes.
Seriously?
Somehow, lowering the tax bracket (which they were already avoiding completely according to you) lowers the price of tax preparation advisers' services or the time it takes them to do their job?
1 - lowering the tax bracket would actually make their services more expensive.
Getting 20% off on your taxes from 90% is only 70%, but a same cut from 70% means you're now paying ONLY half.
Which makes the tax cuts more valuable the lower you cut them.
You could have just thought about it for a few minutes and get this far.
Or if that's confusing, take 20% off of different tax brackets and watch as the difference goes down - you get less and less for the same cut the lower you go.
I.e. the price of a tax percentage goes up.
Not that any of it matters.
2 - being motivated by the need to pay less, they are naturally aiming at 0% tax or as close to it as possible.
As such, any cut is not enough and tax prep advisers are hired regardless of the height of taxes.
Not that any of that matters either.
3 - being needed regardless of the current tax bracket, tax prep advisers have no reason to lower the price of their services.
You wanna keep your millions, give them thousands. Only thing that matters in lowering their prices is competition.
4 - prices of tax prep advisers are peanuts compared to actual taxes.
And last but not least...
5 - full price of services is based on the input and complexity of one's tax situation.
It's NOT about the current maximum tax bracket, but about HOW MUCH IS there to be TAXED.
Having more stuff means you have more stuff to pay taxes on. Paying less taxes means you get to have more stuff... etc. etc.
Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
He's like a WWF entertainer
Cute and apparently cuddly when wrestling, but prone to attack humans when irritated, like a giant panda?