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Judge Suggests Apple Is "Smoking Crack" With Witness List In Samsung Case
infodragon writes "Today in the ongoing Apple vs Samsung court case Judge Lucy Koh's patience wore thin as Apple presented a 75-page document highlighting 22 witnesses it would like to call in for rebuttal testimony, provided the court had the time. As those following the case closely know quite well, the case has a set number of hours which are already wearing quite thin. As quoted by The Verge as they sat in the courtroom listening in, Koh wondered aloud why Apple would offer the list 'when unless you're smoking crack you know these witnesses aren't going to be called!'"
in favor of Apple.
Now I think her wild mood swings must mean she's medicating?
I'm not a lawyer, but I play one on the Internet. Blog
Posting to remove ability to mod story I submitted.
If at first you don't succeed, skydiving is not for you.
if i have ten hrs to do something and you know it, your saying im smoking drugs or medicating for getting irritated?
seriously the judge is just making sure apple knows to put the best evidence forth in the time everyone agreed on.
This is infront of a jury.
"We had 22 witnesses ready, but were denied time to present their testimony"
"They were ready to say all sorts of things to support us"
It is all about getting the jury on your side. Being "unable to present your case" is one such method.
And the other side cannot cross examine imagined testimony.
...another patent case is brewing.
Apparently died with Steve.
One thing is very clear from what we know of this case: Judge Lucy Koh lacks appropriate judicial temperament. A judge isn't supposed to be hassling and berating the lawyers on both sides like this. Furthermore, she seems to be jumping on any possible pretext to exclude as much evidence as possible from both sides. This is unusual, especially in a civil case. Frankly, I think she just doesn't want to hear the case at all, and wishes the parties would come to a settlement. In other words, she'd rather not do her job. Maybe we should grant that wish, and impeach her for violating the Article III requirement of "good behavior".
I love this Judge, shes blunt and will not take Apples bullshit.
She needs her own show on TV.
---- GENERATION 26: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation.
Apple has been caught buying their design expert witness for 75.000 USD. Though normal to cover expenses for expert witnesses, this is quite excessive. The guy even describes himself as a professional expert witness on his own website.
Koh may have just handed Apple what they need to prove she has a bias if they need to appeal this case later.
There appropriate ways for a Judge to express their frustrations at a plaintiff.
Anyone else think the legal system would make more sense if they were smoking crack?
That's our life, the big wheel of shit. - The Fat Man, Blue Tango Salvage
You don't mod stories, you mod posts. There is no reason to believe you are any more or less likely to be biased than anyone else, so there is no reason to prohibit modding posts, even when they are related to the story you submitted. Also, you could have simply not modded. You aren't forced to mod. You did know that, right?
Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
Inappropriate != bias
Is wearing thin.
Considering her attitude towards both sides, is it possible for both sides to request her removal?
Don't know something? Look it up. Still don't know? Then ask.
Uh, Apple has 4 hours left to give any of their arguments. They gave her a list of 75! witness that she had to read and familiarize herself with overnight. Even apple themselves said they would only get 20 of the witnesses on the stand in 4 hours.
To recap.
4 hours
20 planned witnesses
75 objections to review.
That's straight up bullshit.
They are being unprofessional, she is simply taking them down a peg.
DEA will continue with this proceeding from now on.
A judge isn't supposed to be hassling and berating the lawyers on both sides like this.
Good grief man, have you ever seen any real trials?
It is EXACTLY the job of a judge to ride herd over lawyers on both sides, as they will take whatever advantage they can eek out. You cannot have some mild judge that gets rode over by the alpha personality that almost every trial lawyer exhibits.
A judge must make, then strictly enforce, rules - or else the lawyers will just take over.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Regardless of which side it favors, this is very unprofessional behavior coming from a judge presiding over a very influential case that could result in millions, even billions, of dollars in damages.
Firstly, the suggestion that you should get a better class of justice if you have billions of dollars to argue over is truly vile and despicable. Either these sort of comments are acceptable by a judge or they are not. The wealth and claims of the parties is irrelevant to that.
Secondly, to answer your question, Lucy Koh worked at Wilson Sonsini Goodrich & Rosati, a Palo Alto, California law firm as a litigation partner representing technology companies in patent, trade secret and commercial civil matters from 2002 to 2008. So I imagine she 'became a patent lawyer' around then or a bit before.
S. Jobs was fond of LSD. It seems the culture spread in Apple.
Table-ized A.I.
Apple has been caught buying their design expert witness for 75.000 USD.
They guy worked for it though, 136 hours or so (if you had read the article you'd know he was being paid $550/hour).
You seem to think an expert witness is just spending a few hours on a stand. Not so, there are MANY hours spent in preparation of a trial, also helping APple produce supporting documents or determine what is infringing.
That seems like a lot of money but consider that the person has to work in a high stress environment, taking time away from other projects - and to boot is highly valuable as having actually been the one working on a lot of Apple icons. $550/hour is totally reasonable.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Apple has just put a patent on the term "smoking crack", people who use the term, and/or engage in the activity could now be charge with copyright infringement. This may prove to be the most serious blow to the crack consumers, and the illegal drugs industry at large........
Why would either side be considered unprofessional for naming more witnesses than they need? Please explain further. I'm aware that rejections happen for a multitude of reasons, so it would seem that having alternates is a must.
Though I personally fail to see why it's a big deal, and I understand that a time limit is a time limit, all she would have to say is "you need to cut this list down to only the witnesses you plan to present", not "you wouldn't submit this unless you were smoking crack".
My opinion remains that this judge is very unprofessional.
The only good way to handle this is to then charge Apple with a felony.
Why would either side be considered unprofessional for naming more witnesses than they need?
Almost four times as many witnesses as they could possibly question?
I think you need to read the GP's Subject line again.
Judy != Koh
I believe the GP subject is intended as a joke referring to the sensationalist comments and behavior going on in this trial being akin to those found on small claims court TV shows.
Although I think by "Lawyer" he may have meant "Judge".
all she would have to say is "you need to cut this list down to only the witnesses you plan to present"
That's what the point of Apple submitting this list was all about in the first place. She had asked that the first time and they gave her a list of 20 witnesses that Apple believed they were going to bring to court.
She told them off. Unprofessional or not, she could have done much worse to Apple's lawyers for trying to waste her own as well as the courts' time. I think it's a welcome change for this case, and is probably one of the reasons Koh remained as judge for it. This needs to be a quick, no-nonsense, no-bullshit, no-courtroom-theatrics case that settles things once and for all. The amount of patent cases in a day alone waste enough of the courts' time, and I doubt that anyone wants it to be wasted anymore, because Apple thinks their going to get away with 20 witnesses in an impossibly short amount of time.
Your opinion is shit. All you have to base it on is second or third hand comments from media or corporate lawyers.
Also, anyone familiar with the legal system would realize that the lawyers on both sides are play acting through this entire trial because they *know* it is just a step on the way to an appeal.
Uh, Apple has 4 hours left to give any of their arguments. They gave her a list of 75! witness that she had to read and familiarize herself with overnight. Even apple themselves said they would only get 20 of the witnesses on the stand in 4 hours.
To recap.
4 hours
20 planned witnesses
75 objections to review.
That's straight up bullshit.
They are being unprofessional, she is simply taking them down a peg.
From TFSummary:
75 is the number of pages in the document and 22 the number of witnesses in that document.
Whilst it would be easy to rip your post to shreds, it's by no means the most worthy of disdain in the blindly pro-Android bollocks that we currently have to put up with on Slashdot.
> My opinion remains that this judge is very unprofessional.
If I am not mistaken, judges are elected in America. That pretty much means that they are not "professional."
Thanks, got it now. Hopefully I misunderstood his comments over the billions being sued for as well, if not then then I may have to sue him for $73 trillion in mental anguish and the judge had better be patient with my lack of case because it's trillions of dollars at stake!
I think you mean 20 witnesses in a 75-page report, not 75 witnesses.
I hope both sides appeal it all the way to the Supreme Court. End this BS once and for all.
I really shouldn't have used someone else's email address for this account.
Sorry, who are you again? I can't see your username behind that AC label.
ORLY? Given how prepared Apple's counsel has been in this case (particularly versus the Samsung clusterfuck) I will take them at their word when they say they timed out the witnesses. 10-12 minutes per witness is reasonable if they have specific nuggets of testimony to extract. The objections? Not so much.
(%i1) factor(777353);
(%o1) 777353
And he can't see your actual name behind the Revotron label.
This Judge obviously knows a fiend when she sees one. It entirely explains the pricing of their products and vicious patents, which when factoring in habit support, now makes perfect sense. Maybe after a few months of Narcotics Anonymous, we could see prices coming down and lawsuits disappearing.
Sounds like the judge an just a android user is all. Probablly got a free galaxy nexus s3 or something from samsung and her idiotic mind just was blown away by it despite being an inferior piece of shit phone.
Judge is just another in the long line of people who hate apple for being the best at what they do and going after the competition. Just like the morons who used to love sony finally got tired of them being the best so now they want to hate them for no reason. Just like people used to love microsftfor being the best but now hate them and laughabley say they love linux. Its all about "What is cool to like/dislike today based on popular opinion".
You know the old niger saying goes, haters gonna hate.
75 witnesses would be 3.2 minutes per witness, assuming that each one started and ended instantly.
I'm pretty sure Apple would view that as a great outcome and it would only encourage them to initiate more patent lawsuits. Your "solution" doesn't really seem to be in line with your stated beliefs.
This Space Intentionally Left Blank
Pardon, I mistook the numbers from the OP that were incorrect.
So what you're saying is that Apple should be rewarded for patenting round rectangles with glass on the front?
If the "whole patenting nonsense has gone way overboard," it time to smack those who patent nonsensical things, like round rectangles with glass on the front or a phone receiver with a green background.
Both parties rely on the fact that a definitive resolution of these issues cannot be found before the courts, and various courts of appeals, until long after the related products are irrelevant. SCO v. Novell is into its ninth year, both companies for all intents no longer exist. And yet lawyers will stand before the bar and argue this case for a while yet. If there is enough money left whatever decisions reached will be appealed to another court still.
Help stamp out iliturcy.
But inappropriate can still = grounds for appeal.
I was going to say a similar thing myself, but not about "bias".
Apple could simply be doing it on the grounds that it is necessary testimony, and disallowing it denies them a fair trial.
She should have said "dropping acid." This is Apple after all.
And the essential 3G patents which Apple has steadfastly refused to pay a single dime for for the last 5 years? Can we award Samsung their dollar back and ban sales of iPhones for that too. What a great idea, and if we do the same to HTC and Motorola, the cellphone division of Microsoft can move from Finland to the US and have their very own protected market!
I think what we're seeing here is a fundamental failure to have a meeting of the minds in light of new circumstances. Judge Lucy realizes that all the recent public interest in this trial exposed how much she's been in the tank for Apple, and she's decided to start playing it straight...or at least give that appearance.
Apple, on the other hand, still seems to believe that they own her skinny apps. ;-)
I've calculated my velocity with such exquisite precision that I have no idea where I am.
It is obvious that Samsung has indeed copied Apple
obvious to whom? other judges have already ruled that samsung did not copy apple, even going so far as to force Apple to publicly admit that Samsung never copied them... http://www.bgr.com/2012/07/18/apple-patent-ruling-judge-samsung-copy-ipad/
this is hardly the clear cut case that iDiots would have you think it is.
-Lod
Sorry, who are you again? Hiding behind a pusedoname without a publicly visible email address!
Do Apple Inc. Top Management prefer cocaine ingest by:
A) Smoking
B) Injection of serum into blood veins
C) Snorting, using 'Franklins' as the medium of 'tube'
D) Enama.
Regardless of which side it favors, this is very unprofessional behavior coming from a judge presiding over a very influential case that could result in millions, even billions, of dollars in damages.
No it's not.
There's no requirement that judges stick to mild language; it's not at all unusual for judges to be frustrated with obviously stupid games played by lawyers arguing a case, and using harsh language does not indicate prejudice. That it didn't indicate prejudice in this case is abundantly clear from the context of the statement—Apple's request was simply bizarre, and her remark simply reflected that (using a standard epithet which means exactly that).
If Apple wants to be treated more "professionally," it's very clear how they should precede: act more professionally themselves and stop playing stupid games in court.
We live, as we dream -- alone....
"One: this is a jury trial. As such, there are twelve jurors, "
No this is a civil trial. Twelve is not a specified number for the jury. IIRC this trial actually has nine.
Checking the various employee databases behind Apple Inc. firewalls reveals that Apple Inc. higher Management prefer Enama infusion of cocaine.
This is likely due to the 'Gay' nature of Apple Inc. higher management.
Snicker Snicker
their products, ships, earth moving equipment, large industrial power control devices, home appliances, LCD screens, power supplies, chips, dips, chains, and whips .
Oh God knows I tried, but no matter which search engine I use, I just can't find "Samsung Whip" or "Samsung Whips" or anything similar
Would you be kind enough to tell us where to locate the Samsung Whips(TM) ?
Many thanks !!
Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
"Yang has made about $200,000 working on this lawsuit" for Samsung
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2012/08/samsung-says-it-patented-iphones-best-features-before-apple/
C'mon. Market cap is just a measure of how much the company owes to those out there holding their shares.
The share prices is the marginal trade price for small numbers of shares. Multiplying it by the number of shares is a bogus number. If all the shareholders in Apple tried to cash in on the same day - or even the same six months window - the price would collapse.
Market cap is a term invented by Wall Street to sell stock bubbles to dim punters.
From scarped cliff or quarried stone she cries "A thousand types are gone, I care for nothing, no not one."
Samsung can answer the question of you and what army of killer robots. They got them. The market cap of Samsung is the GDP of Korea.
Meanwhile Apple is a very small player in a very crowded market that already was at deaths door once and the leader who pulled them out of it is dead.
The two companies are VERY different. If Apple loses mobile, it is dead. If Samsung looses mobile, only Samsung mobile is dead. And Samsung itself will continue and continue earning money on EVERY Apple device as it contains Samsung tech.
That is probably also the reason Apple is so pissed. Samsung gets money for every iPhone and iPad. Apple gets nothing (because it has nothing anybody wants for their devices). That hurts, Apple wants to sell stuff to other producers too but they got nothing but design and design is hard to sell to other designers.
This entire trial is between a company that makes physical parts that it sells to a design company that wants to sell its ideas. 40 bucks for a border around a screen. Fair isn't it? After all, Samsung and the likes get 40 bucks for the screen so why not 40 bucks in return for the design of the bezel?
Don't discount this, a LOT of republicans who want to outsource jobs want to turn the entire US economy into an idea economy where the west sells ideas to the east in exchange for physical products.
Problem: patents for physical objects are clear, for ideas... not so much.
This case is test if the "knowledge" economy (where knowledge is not hard science but design and ideas) is workable.
I don't think it is.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
Is anyone else imagining the Razzle Dazzle song playing while Apple is trying to present this?
"Give 'em the old Razzle Dazlle... Razzle Dazzle em" ^_~
While other companies make their product, Apple has pumped billions into getting those factories built, modernized and/or retooled to make Apple's products. Often, this investment comes with exclusive access to the product for Apple for a period of time. IIRC, Apple invested over $1 billion in the Sharp plant that makes the Retina iPad LCDs. Apple also recently placed orders for $5 billion in industrial robots to put into Foxconn's plants to make their gadgets, possibly tying up global robot production for a while.
Antique-Double-Sided-School-Student-Chalk-Board-Slate-Vintage
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Antique-Double-Sided-School-Student-Chalk-Board-Slate-Vintage-House-Kids-Lined-/200805561955
Prototype of the Notepad application:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Antique-Childs-Primitive-Wooden-Slate-Schoolhouse-Chalk-Board-School-Chalkboard-/170895205376
Truth is stranger than fiction, but it is because Fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities; Truth isn't. Mark Twain.
Judge Lucy Koh's will smoke crack herself soon . ;)
Can someone please post a link to the list of witnesses Apple has requested? Im sure there is a link above, but I cannot find it.
First I thought she was miffed by who they were trying to call. Further reading informs me they were under time constraints.
No, the reason for the simple solution I proposed is to work within the existing framework of laws and then change the laws. For the current case we can't apply future law but must solve this. Then we can change the laws and regulations to avoid this in the future.
Dude, overlapping windows, is like some one trying to patent the printf() function thereby ruining it for everyone else.
Beginner coders in the 80s coded overlapping windows for text mode DOS 'window handlers', ie rect sections for text/textmode windows.
It shouldnt matter if its rendered using a raster pixmap, or ascii mode using ------------ or | | etc.... or rendered using vector monitors, or 3d GL stuff.
The concept is a natural progression of needs of programmers.
Its like exam questions at school, if 80% of students can answer the question, then the question cant really be made into a patent, can it.... only really hard to create efforts deserver a patent.
Liberty freedom are no1, not dicks in suits.